Military Review

Pests - take off!

238
In the previous article (Aviation design bureaus are homeless. Reforms according to Serdyukov) had to touch on the problems about which the Russian aviation industry is about to crash.



And these problems are great: 500 billion rubles in debt, for the sake of repayment of which all leading design bureaus will be expelled from offices and premises in Moscow aviation industry and transferred to factories.

From Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Voronezh, Novosibirsk, Komsomolsk-on-Amur. It is clear that no one will go and virtually all the work of aviation design bureaus will be destroyed.

But the question is - for what?

Why do Serdyukov and everyone else want to destroy aviation design bureaus, expelling them from Moscow?

For the sake of debt. And this is where the questions begin. Who owes the UAC so much that it will have to do this? Whose interests does Serdyukov represent by destroying the design bureau?

Let's watch.

The state, represented by Rosimushchestvo, owned 90,3% of the shares of PJSC UAC, Vnesheconombank - 5,6%, and private shareholders - 4,1%. In 2018, in accordance with the Decree of President Putin, Rosimushchestvo transferred all shares of the state corporation Rostec.

Together with debts.

And here the question arises: what were the gentlemen general directors doing, according to the list, that the debt at that time would amount to 500 billion rubles?

2006-2011 - Alexey Innokentievich Fyodorov
2011-2015 - Mikhail Aslanovich Pogosyan
Since 2015 - Yuri Borisovich Slyusar

These gentlemen, it seems to me, bear full responsibility for the fact that the KLA has been doing for 15 years, do not understand what. They were enlarged, optimized, modernized, and so on.

Meanwhile ...

Figures. Nothing personal, but between 2008 and 2019, the following happened in the world of civil aircraft:

Boeing produced 6 aircraft.
Airbus produced 6 aircraft.
Bombardier produced 2 aircraft.
Embrayer produced 1 aircraft.

The list goes on. But its bottom is all the same for the UAC.

The UAC produced 224 aircraft.

It’s hard for me to say how they did not overstrain, especially in 2008-2012, producing 5-6 aircraft per year. But it is clear that if a corporation of this level, possessing such production capacities and human resources, will stand and do nothing, it is clear that debts will arise. And they formed.

By the way, is it clear why I decided to look at the civil aircraft market? Civil aviation is profit. This is income. Manufacturers, the state. Military aviation is a loss, whatever one may say. Even if you sell more than you keep for yourself, it's still a loss. Therefore, we will consider military aviation separately, next time.

So, which did nothing of what the UAC was obliged to do, it was mired in debt. State money simply went into a black hole for a company that did not build aircraft, while Boeing and Airbus clearly mastered the Russian carrier market.

And then the time came when the creditors knocked on the door. Of course, the state did not leave its own structure to perish, and allocated 400 rubles from the budget. The figure looks nice, right? 000 billion rubles.

But 400 is not 500. The budget, apparently, is also not rubber. And somewhere else it is necessary to take another 100 billion rubles.

The most interesting thing is that there is complete silence about who caused such debts. And no complaints. Neither Poghosyan nor Fedorov. There is no open data on what debt was at the time of joining the leadership of Slyusar.

Yes, when not necessary, our state is simply luxuriously able to keep its secrets.

However, secrets are secrets, and money is money. And if there are debts, then they must be paid. Well, as it were, it’s accepted, yes. But at what cost? To destroy the design bureaus today, which could develop planes for tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, is this not sabotage?

And the problem is not that the buildings of the former aviation design bureaus will be sold today and the money will be returned to the banks. The problem is that they will make new loans, because there will be no one to work for the future.

What is the main problem of the aviation (space and other) industries today is oversaturation with managers. Moreover, all concerned and understanding experts have been talking about this for a long time.

But no one is going to cut them. All at places. At the end of last year, it was reported that the UAC was concerned about the creation of "general corporate centers of competence", the main task of which will be to provide "administrative, economic and financial support for all enterprises in the UAC circuit."

That is, another crowd of idlers who will demand premises, computers, transport and - money for their maintenance. And in fact, this whole revolving will be devoted to one thing - so that God forbid, at the enterprises of the UAC, they would not buy a pencil on their own at the factory.

And of course, it will be necessary to create a center for combating corruption, which will control the center of general corporate competence. And so on, ad infinitum.

Although why ad infinitum? The money in the budget is quite finite.

And the designers ... Lord, what does this have to do with the designers? In our age of "effective management", a designer is simply not needed. We need this very manager who personifies the whole nightmare and squalor of Russian reality.
Instead of general designers, CEOs are ubiquitous. But it is so…

Another question: what is the point in this wrecking reorganization if it is carried out by the very people who have already been able to bring a loss of 500 billion by their very effective actions?

What is the point of trying to improve the financial health of the KLA, if the rotten head remains, and even strengthened by the almighty Serdyukov?

Of course, if we are talking about the interests of banks, to which the UAC owes, then everything is clear. Of course, our capital is now above state interests. Bank money is more important than any aviation structures.

And why do we need these design bureaus? "Tupolev" with its planes, "Ilyushin" ... We fly on Boeing like the whole world, what else do we need?

There is no doubt that these managers will sell not only KB, but anything they want, as long as there is a margin.

Sadly, there are virtually no aviation specialists left in the leadership of the aviation industry. There are psychologists, lawyers, and even a music producer. Recently, here is also a graduate of the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade with a bright furniture past.

Well, they weren't assigned to positions to design airplanes. There are specially trained people for this. So far there is still. Gentlemen managers had to establish the production and marketing of manufactured products.

224 aircraft in 11 years is an amazing achievement.

And even the most expensive (in terms of official income) government member in the rank of minister Denis Manturov could not help with improving the situation. Which until May 2019 headed the board of directors of the UAC.

Mr. Manturov is known as an ardent fan of the flying misunderstanding named Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ-100). A mediocre plane, 80% of foreign components and no chance of being sold for export. Because for the sale it is necessary to obtain permits from all those who supplied the components.

But the super-efficient manager Manturov believed and still believes that the SSJ-100 is a breakthrough. Which allowed the birth of another ugly creature - MS-21, which has no chance of flying at all, since it is also half of imported components that cannot be replaced in any way.

Constructors should change something, not managers ...

In general, the whole situation around the buildings of aviation design bureaus reminded me of the 90s. Yes, of course, the dashing guys in leather and crimson jackets on "bekhs" with trunks in their pockets are strikingly different from "effective managers" with laptops.

Externally.

And the essence remained absolutely the same. Complete defenselessness, both in the 90s and now. And the essence of the "reforms" will turn out to be the same, to sell everything that is possible, to make a profit, and then the grass will not grow.
But in our case, not grass, but planes. Small such difference, but it is. There will be no planes.

We can stop now and ask the question: who is to blame and what to do?

Who is to blame, by the way, is perfectly clear. The fault is the ruling class of oligarchs in Russia, which relies on the country's president Putin and his team. The oligarchs do not care that tomorrow the aviation industry will be destroyed in the country. The profit will be received today, so you will not have to regret it at all.

Serdyukov will do everything, no doubt about it. Medvedev, who is in the Security Council, will cover. A small group of high-ranking officials easily decided the fate of the aviation industry without having a single specialist from this industry in its composition. Handsomely…

And somewhere to go to complain is simply useless. They are in the State Duma, and in the Security Council too. It remains only to say goodbye to at least some possible prospects in aviation, because they simply will not exist.

But nothing, they will shoot a cartoon for us, tell another fairy tale about a Russian-Chinese wide-body liner, and everyone will be fine and comfortable.

And the fact that at the time of the appearance of the super-creator Sukhoi Superjet 100 (the hand does not rise in Russian letters) the completely domestic Tu-334 was already flying perfectly, and the fact that a joint liner with China looks stupid in the presence of the Il-96 is all from the evil one.

Earning something "as an adult" will not work. That is why the design bureaus will be dispersed, the buildings and laboratories will be sold. And we will still fly on other people's planes.

Well, for a great power, this is not so offensive, is it?
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238 comments
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  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 26 February 2021 11: 04
    +34
    Well, if the MO is transplanted to Chinese SUVs, then why not to Brazilian ones !!! "embrayers" do not fly ... (bitter sarcasm)
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 26 February 2021 11: 32
      +27
      The impression is that now we do not need either the auto industry or our aircraft industry, we will buy everything from the Chinese the same as the cars. Such "optimization" and "import substitution" are obtained.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 26 February 2021 12: 07
        -26%
        Such an impression is formed,

        it is from ignorance
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 26 February 2021 13: 11
          +14
          Quote: Ka-52
          it is from ignorance

          Tell a military secret ...
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 26 February 2021 13: 42
            +16
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Tell a military secret ...

            There is no such secret! The statistics are there. There is a desire to let fog
            1. nils
              nils 26 February 2021 15: 31
              +21
              Modern Russia is a country of uncaught thieves and an eternal bright future.
              1. bayard
                bayard 26 February 2021 22: 36
                +10
                Your quote in gold letters, but on granite. good
                The impression is that the "Cunning Plan" team is preparing not just the industry, but the entire country for liquidation.
                Selling off everything that can be sold at last.
                Under the cheerful silence
                Under a sad growl
                Under the friendly neighing ...
                Russians with a new reality!
                what
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 27 February 2021 00: 25
                  +6
                  Colleague, the "cunning plan" is as simple as a low: Make a loot. All. This is the essence of capitalism. UAC is a feeding trough for "necessary" "people". Received "loot" from the state. Distributed into pockets. We got loot from foreigners and distributed them for the promotion of their planes. It seems to them that it will always be so. Not! Others will come, eager for the dough and say (already talking), you are thieves! And as in the fairy tale about the white bull.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 27 February 2021 00: 33
                    +5
                    Quote: AKuzenka
                    It seems to them that it will always be so. Not!

                    They will not be sad in the Maldives either.
                    After so fruitful labors.
            2. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 27 February 2021 12: 36
              -1
              Quote: Silvestr
              There is a desire to let fog

              Yes, banal spreading, they say, who needs it, work for the good of the fatherland, but the result is invisible, because it is a secret from Western spies. Eternal excuse. lol
          2. Ka-52
            Ka-52 1 March 2021 06: 26
            -3
            Tell a military secret ...

            why do you need secrets? For you, for a magpie's clamor, it is enough that the author scribbled into a bunch
            1. nemez
              nemez 5 March 2021 09: 11
              +1
              I myself have been working in defense for more than 15 years, nothing new has been invented, only "improvement" of Soviet developments. So I do not believe in the presence of Poseidon or in hypersound. The effectiveness of the current designers and managers is before my eyes.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 5 March 2021 09: 38
                -2
                I myself have been working in defense for more than 15 years, nothing new has been invented, only "improvement" of Soviet developments.

                and what, others have invented a lot of new things? Abrams 80s development? The series of aircraft carriers Nimitz 75g start the series? A super newest aircraft that began development in 81? No need to shed tears here for Yaroslavna crying
                So I don't believe in the presence of Poseidon or in hypersound.

                Yes of course. There is no hypersound. And in general the Earth is flat
        2. Stas157
          Stas157 26 February 2021 13: 15
          +43
          all leading design bureaus of the aviation industry will be expelled from offices and premises in Moscow and transferred to factories.

          Well, the management of the UAC from Moscow will not go anywhere. Movements to the periphery concern only engineers and designers. And the parasitic superstructure will maintain a privileged position.

          Boeing produced 6 aircraft.
          Airbus produced 6 aircraft.
          Bombardier produced 2 aircraft.
          Embrayer produced 1 aircraft.

          The list goes on. But its bottom is all the same for the UAC.

          The UAC produced 224 aircraft.

          But the management of the UAC go as it gets in Boeing! And obviously more than in any Emrayer. Otherwise, the menager, in the case of small salaries, as the king said, will be lured to the West!
          1. nils
            nils 26 February 2021 15: 44
            +15
            Quote: Stas157
            And the parasitic superstructure will maintain a privileged position.

            Due to the coronavirus, brothels in Berlin, Amsterdam, Stuttgart are on the verge of closing ... And only Russia remains an island of stability in the stormy sea of ​​the pandemic: both the lower and upper houses of parliament are working as usual.

            Kum, in Russia everything is done in two ways - either through the ass or through the president.

            - Kum, have you heard that Putin launched the world's most powerful neutron reactor?
            - Yes, Putin actually started everything!
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 26 February 2021 15: 53
              +23
              Quote: nils
              - Kum, have you heard that Putin launched the world's most powerful neutron reactor?
              - Yes, Putin actually started everything!

              1. your1970
                your1970 4 March 2021 11: 52
                +1
                Quote: Silvestr
                Quote: nils
                - Kum, have you heard that Putin launched the world's most powerful neutron reactor?
                - Yes, Putin actually started everything!


                One single question - this grandmother began to live in this shack only now ?? Under Soviet rule, she apparently lived in a luxurious cottage village ?? Nooo? !!
                That is ABSENCE - oligarchs with yachts, import substitution, surges in the dollar exchange rate, corruption, Serdyukov, amendments to the Constitution, cutting the budget - did it affect her housing in any way?
                And she changed- even under the Soviets, even under the mayor's officex - only cats on hand ... Everyone and always she was in Feng Shui ...
                Yesterday I was shown a gorgeous decree on the gasification of the country in 1985 .. According to it, for the entire period of Soviet power, 2 (TWO !!!!!!!)% in rural areas was gasified ...
                Z. Y. Implementation of the work plan for 1985 - only 17% lol
          2. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 27 February 2021 00: 26
            +6
            But the management of the UAC go as it gets in Boeing!
            I think part of the salary. directly from there and receive.
        3. New Year day
          New Year day 26 February 2021 13: 41
          +20
          Quote: Ka-52

          it is from ignorance

          Refute the Author with your knowledge
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2021 06: 50
            -1
            Quote: Silvestr
            Refute the Author with your knowledge

            Well, Roman is hard to reject, he has a "root".
        4. sniperino
          sniperino 26 February 2021 13: 42
          -12%
          Quote: Ka-52
          Such an impression is formed,

          it is from ignorance
          Some from ignorance, others from malice.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 35
            -2
            Quote: sniperino
            Quote: Ka-52
            Such an impression is formed,

            it is from ignorance
            Some from ignorance, others from malice.

            Do you sell for money? Or an ideological defender of "stability"? But what is your idea, in the destruction of Russia?
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 26 February 2021 20: 33
              -5
              Quote: Svarog
              But what is your idea of ​​destroying Russia?
              In the elimination of the destroyers of Russia.
      2. prior
        prior 26 February 2021 12: 09
        +26
        We were told that "optimization" and "import substitution" concern technology.
        No, first of all they concern the Russian people.
        First, it will be "otoptimized" to the required amount, and then "import substitution" will replace it with gasterbayters from Central Asia.
        Aviation is just a touch to the portrait.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 26 February 2021 12: 38
          +7
          Replace designers with guest workers?
          To say such a thing - the language will not rise even in an American ...
          But on the other hand, it’s easy for a Russian librarian manager: he believes that a workplace in an office mold chair will be provided during the sale of the industry!
          We are not talking about aviation, but about the fate of the NATION.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2021 06: 59
            +1
            Quote: hydrox
            But on the other hand, it’s easy for a Russian librarian manager: he believes that a workplace in an office mold chair will be provided during the sale of the industry!
            We are not talking about aviation, but about the fate of the NATION.

            I do not condemn you, but support you.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 28 February 2021 06: 27
              +1
              And I support!
          2. gsev
            gsev 28 February 2021 16: 23
            +1
            Quote: hydrox
            But on the other hand, it’s easy for a Russian librarian manager: he believes that a workplace in an office mold chair will be provided during the sale of the industry!

            The level of a modern manager is such that a Tajik girl can replace almost anyone. Polite, attentive, stupid ad-libbing does not express and the leadership of the authorities will be able to convey more accurately without ostentatious pomp. I think if you fire Slyusar or Rogozin, and hire an attractive Tajik guest worker to brew tea for every room where the designers work, then things will go better in aviation.
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 26 February 2021 12: 42
          -19%
          Aviation is just a touch to the portrait.

          do you serve or work in aviation?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 27 February 2021 12: 46
            +7
            And there is no need to serve and work there - everything can be seen from the results. At all airports in the country, Boeings and Airbases, the famous MS-21, Superjet and SU-57 have already gone beyond the Russian proverb that they are waiting for the promised three years.
            And all of you with your pseudo-authoritative show-off - "Serve or work." Wake up already, the hole of big shame on one Serdyukov can not be written off. negative
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 1 March 2021 04: 58
              0
              a hole of big shame on one Serdyukov can not be written off

              where does the show-off? So you can crow here from the fence whatever you want, but you can't even ask me a simple question? Have you introduced a monopoly on participation in the discussion? sorry that I accidentally got into your coven request
              But really, most of all I'm interested in how everyone here is howling at the moon, without even having the slightest relation to design and development in aviation. Starting with the author. Well, now I would begin to howl about the problems in the organization of the locomotive-locomotive economy, in which I do not understand a thing. Any railroad worker will simply laugh at me. belay
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 1 March 2021 08: 33
                0
                Quote: Ka-52
                where does the show-off?

                Remember the song about the beautiful marchioness? wink Here you sing it regularly, and problems accumulate.
                1. Ka-52
                  Ka-52 1 March 2021 08: 59
                  0
                  Here you sing it regularly, and problems accumulate.

                  Problems? There were problems in the early 2000s, when I first got into the office. Compared to them, the current ones are childish.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 1 March 2021 10: 41
                    0
                    2000 years have passed since the 20s. And the cart, if not in place, then moved to a minuscule. And even then, given the fact that since 2000 the share of imported spare parts has grown, you still need to think in which direction to move.
                    1. Ka-52
                      Ka-52 1 March 2021 11: 54
                      0
                      2000 years have passed since the 20s. And the cart, if not in place, has moved a tiny bit.

                      well, not for you to argue.
                      that since 2000 the share of imported spare parts has grown, we still need to think in which direction to move.

                      I don't need to hang my cranberries here. Bring this blizzard to your Silversts and Svarogs. In the 2000s, we did not produce even half of what is being produced now.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 1 March 2021 12: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        well, not for you to argue.

                        It is not for you to tell me where I can reason, and where not. The power you are justifying is increasingly ruining the remnants of industry, including the aircraft industry. It is easy to check by comparing the aircraft industry in the Soviet Union and now.
                        If you loved aviation, you would never call degradation development.
                      2. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 1 March 2021 12: 34
                        0
                        It is easy to check by comparing the aircraft industry in the Soviet Union and now.

                        your logic is strange. Or rather its absence. in one sentence, you combine two different assessment points. Either talkers or stupid people do this. The power of Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroyed aviation. I don’t defend them even a millimeter. On the contrary, I put all the blame on them. Since the 2000s, the dynamics of positive development has been unconditional. This can be seen both in financing and in the number of projects and in the growth of assets of any enterprise that is part of the UEC structure. In the design bureau, the number of designers has recently increased by 2 times, no less. And here they are talking about the destruction of the design bureau. It is clear that under the USSR it was a different matter. Then there were 20 times more specialized institutes than now.
                        If you loved aviation, you would never call degradation development.

                        Degradation? You should be brought in the 90s and early 2000s and poke your nose at empty workshops and abandoned airfields. And show what is now. And listen to what is degradation and what is development.
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 1 March 2021 13: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        The power of Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroyed aviation.

                        And now what is the government doing with Serdyukov's hands? belay
                        Is the same transfer of design bureaus to production sites a good solution? How did they not come to this idea during the Soviet Union?
                        Let's take you - would you ride a cockroach into the darkness from its familiar place, with your wife and children? Where should a wife look for a new job, and school / kindergarten children?
                        You know as well as I do that at least half of the specialists of these design bureaus will remain in place, and they can be understood. Is this the rise of the industry for you?
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        You would be brought in the 90s and early 2000s and poke your nose at empty workshops

                        Well, it's enough to nod for the 90s, you don't need to justify your actions on the example of the worst, but strives for the best. After the Second World War, the USSR rose from the ruins, and flew into space for some 15 years.
                        Anticipating the question of whether I am ready to work as I did in the 50s, I am ready, but if there is a fair distribution and high state goals. And not another yacht of Abramovich.
                      4. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 2 March 2021 04: 46
                        0
                        Let's take you - would you ride a cockroach into the darkness from its familiar place, with your wife and children?

                        well, in relation to Moscow, I already live in the darkness-cockroaches, together with my wife and children laughing
                        Anticipating the question, am I ready to work the way I did in the 50s - ready,

                        you are ready, I am ready, another hundred other pensioners up to the 65th year of birth (not later). And the rest are not. Narodishko has lost the habit of working for enthusiasm. How are you motivating him now? Ideas for a communist future? Ideas of equality? Yes, most militant Internet bawlers have no idea what it is or how to do it. And the rest sometimes do not even want to work for money, so much for an idea No.
                        Well, it's enough to nod for the 90s, you don't need to justify your actions on the example of the worst, but strives for the best. After the Second World War, the USSR rose from the ruins, and flew into space for some 15 years.

                        and what to do with them, with the 90s? Throw it out and forget? This time is just right to erect a monument - a monument to shame. In terms of the level of degradation of the state and society, it will be surpassed only by the years of the Civil War of 1917-1923.
                      5. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 2 March 2021 09: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        Narodishko has lost the habit of working for enthusiasm

                        And the goals for which you can show enthusiasm are not even visible on the horizon. request
                        For example, I work in the daughter of a large company owned by a well-known oligarch. The equipment of the 70s is squeezed out in full, there are almost no investments in modernization, only to maintain a working condition. And at the end of the 70s it was an advanced enterprise in terms of technical characteristics.
                        So it is not worth sinning against the people, there is decadence from above.
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        This time is just right to erect a monument - a monument to shame.

                        I agree, but you can't get hung up on this either. We need to go forward, but we are marking time.
                      6. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 2 March 2021 09: 40
                        -1
                        The equipment of the 70s is squeezed out in full, there are almost no investments in modernization, only to maintain a working condition.

                        oligarchs oligarchs of course strife. I know several shareholders of one large business. So, I have not seen a dumber and useless way to dispose of the incoming dividends. By the way, these are all people from the USSR, many well over 60. No fantasy or economic practicality.
                        So it is not worth sinning against the people, there is decadence from above.

                        and that the upper classes are not the people? Are they reptilian aliens? Yesterday's graduates first hone the art of pollination, and then become first-class officials. I had a friend, we studied together. fool fool God forgive me. But he signed up for a party, then became a deputy, and then an official. But after all, I knew him as a naked person, so to speak, as one of the people request
                      7. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 2 March 2021 11: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        and that the upper classes are not the people?

                        Have you read the catechism of the Jews? Conspiracy, of course, but everything is logical, and it works
  • Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 26 February 2021 12: 53
    +7
    Quote: prior
    We were told that "optimization" and "import substitution" concern technology.
    No, first of all they concern the Russian people.

    Interestingly, these "optimizers" of aviation do not want to vacate expensive Moscow offices and go further from Moscow, to Siberia or the Far East ?!
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 26 February 2021 13: 44
      +20
      Quote: Starover_Z
      Interestingly, these "optimizers" of aviation do not want to vacate expensive Moscow offices and go further from Moscow, to Siberia or the Far East ?!

      The answer is no doubt about it. They have houses over the hill, for them and Moscow is a transshipment point
      1. bayard
        bayard 26 February 2021 23: 01
        +4
        Quote: Silvestr
        for them and Moscow is a transshipment point

        Meanwhile, in China, they rub their palms in anticipation ...
        It is first to disperse the design bureau, and sell the offices and laboratories.
        And then they will sell all of Siberia and the Far East to the Urals.
        China.
        And to the Bahamas.
        The state liquidation program has entered the implementation phase.

        ... What do you think, will the Guarantor of the invariability of the retirement age disbelieve us?

        I really want Thanos to come and CLICK his fingers ...
        You wake up, but they are not ...
        Nobody ...
        No where ...
        Not here, not there, not across the oceans ...
        There are ONLY PEOPLE left ... repeat
        1. lelik613
          lelik613 27 February 2021 09: 27
          -1
          They are such guarantors ... "- Well, this is positively interesting, - shaking with laughter, the professor said, - what do you have, whatever you grab, nothing! - He stopped laughing suddenly and, which is quite understandable in case of mental illness , after laughing, he went to the other extreme - he got irritated and shouted sternly: - So, so it’s still not there? ”(c) we look forward to your Misha
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 27 February 2021 15: 56
          +2
          Quote: bayard
          I really want Thanos to come and CLICK his fingers ...
          You wake up, but they are not ...

          Respected! Thanatos will most likely come to you. After clicking his fingers, nothing will happen at all ... Pegov sees this reality this way.
          1. bayard
            bayard 27 February 2021 17: 21
            +2
            Not a big fan of Hollywood, and the age is not the same. Here are just plans to eliminate all aviation design bureaus (it cannot be interpreted otherwise) against the background of the outstanding successes of the industry as a whole, in the mirror of the entire economy, politics and military development, testify to one thing:
            - sabotage,
            - sabotage,
            - Treason,
            - embezzlement of public funds in prohibitively large amounts,
            - undermining the defense capability and security of the state during the threatened period.

            So what about "Thanos" is an emotional reaction to the outrageous chaos.
            Because there will be nothing to the conspirators for what they have done (embezzlement and embezzlement of 500 billion rubles) and INTENTION, there will be no. Hopes that the tsar is kind, that all the boyars rage, melted away in the haze of recent years.
            And this is just the beginning.
            There are probably other design bureaus of defense and double significance in Moscow, which also occupy Moscow real estate and precious living space. And they also need to be optimized.
            The same Institute of Thermal Engineering ...?
            Or have you forgotten HOW the personnel reform was carried out in the army?
            How were the two aviation academies optimized? And a simulacrum was created in Voronezh?
            How was the program of construction of fifty (!) Newest AWACS A-100 aircraft and the program of modernization of the A-50 fleet to A-50U successfully failed?
            And the Armed Forces now have no such aircraft. Generally !
            6 pcs. A-50U for 12 years is nothing on a national scale and the needs of the army.
            How to fight a war?
            How to detect low-altitude targets ?!
            Ground-based radar?
            Where are the specialized reconnaissance aircraft, naval reconnaissance and target designation aircraft? Where are the PLO, RTR, REB planes? Where are the tankers? Military transport?
            You can't look at the Fleet without tears at all ...
            And against this background - the elimination of all aviation design bureaus ... under the flag of optimization and re-registration ...
            It is nonsense ?
            Of course not .
            This is purposeful work.
            Together with "digitalization" and planned population reduction through vaccinations (listening to Bill Gates and making sure) ...

            ... Or are the boyars raging at the wonderful tsar?


            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            Thanatos will most likely come to you

            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            This is how Pegov sees this reality.

            We have our own reality - almost seven years of war. Yesterday afternoon, for an hour, I flew to the outskirts of Donetsk. Heavy. There are dead and wounded.
            There are more in Gorlovka.
            And I have never divided my Motherland into conditional "states" for myself.
            I am a Soviet officer and I swore allegiance only to her.
  • mssp
    mssp 26 February 2021 18: 43
    -12%
    Quote: prior
    No, first of all they concern the Russian people.
    And who replaces him?
    And the same representatives of the Russian people are Russian entrepreneurs!
    Why should they do that? - It's simple - Central Asians work better.
    No, they are not cheaper - more expensive, because demand and receive higher salaries.
    Precisely on the hands, there is no more deception with them than with the Russians ...
    And there is more trouble with foreigners.
    But it is migrants who are hired, everywhere ...
    They are looking for, chasing - the migrant has become fastidious, no longer particularly strives for Russia!
    The reason is not in migrants - the reason is in the Russians, who are losing the competition to literally everyone in a row.
  • your1970
    your1970 4 March 2021 11: 33
    0
    Quote: prior
    will replace it with gasterbayters from Central Asia.

    However, since 2014, the number of guest workers coming from Central Asia has been steadily decreasing. The dollar exchange rate made them work here - not profitable ...
    And those people whom you see on the streets and think that they are from Central Asia are not, after all, they are ours, primordially our Kalmyks, Kazakhs, Tatars, etc.

    And yet, I somehow always believed that designers should sit in his office at the factory... NOT in Moscow ...
    To be able to solve any technical issue within 5 minutes ... by exchanging matyuga with production workers at least lol
  • Cosm22
    Cosm22 26 February 2021 12: 25
    +29
    But the idea is interesting ...
    It has already occurred to myself ... It looks like the boomerang is returning ...
    If in the middle and at the end of the 20th century, China bought high-tech products from the Union and redrawn them, then at the beginning of the 21st the roles changed.
    Now Russia, the successor to the USSR, is in line for Chinese products. We will not mention Chinese shorts and nails, it is imposed in our teeth, but it seems that we cannot do without Chinese components in the same aircraft construction.
    Russia's dependence on China is only growing. Electronics, engineering products, automobiles, consumer audio-video, digital technology ...
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 26 February 2021 12: 46
      -11%
      Russia's dependence on China is only growing. Electronics, engineering products, automobiles, consumer audio-video, digital technology ...

      China is a locomotive supplier of everything you listed to most countries in the world. Something is not heard on the Internet from these countries of crocodile tears. Although a couple of times, the US Congress initiated proceedings over Chinese components in American combat systems. But the matter did not move laughing
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 26 February 2021 13: 45
        +17
        Quote: Ka-52
        litigation over Chinese components in American combat systems. But the matter did not move

        Okay, with the planes, we didn’t have time, but what can you say about Chinese components in our Automotive Industry? laughing
        1. gsev
          gsev 28 February 2021 16: 31
          0
          Quote: Silvestr
          did not have time, but what can you say about Chinese components in our Automotive Industry?

          Kamaz competes quite successfully with the Chinese auto industry. Chinese manufacturers admit that trucks cannot produce trucks at Kamaz prices. But they usually reduce the price of their trucks during tenders by 20-30 percent lower than KAMAZ, and then demand from their government to compensate for the losses caused by this. Moreover, to KAMAZ managers, this information is openly voiced by the Chinese. Apparently Kamaz spoiled the Chinese a lot of blood and siphoned a lot of money out of them.
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 1 March 2021 05: 06
          0
          Okay, with the planes, we didn’t have time, but what can you say about Chinese components in our Automotive Industry?

          Silver, what is the connection between what I have written and the Auto Industry? Let's also start discussing Chinese enemas that you didn't like the sensations. If I were a moderator, I would have chased people like you into a ban for offtopic.
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 39
        -4
        Quote: Ka-52
        China is a locomotive supplier of everything you listed to most countries in the world. Something is not heard on the Internet from these countries of crocodile tears.

        Are we a supplier of what to most countries in the world?
        1. bayard
          bayard 26 February 2021 23: 07
          +4
          Oil, gas and aluminum ... and also coal.
          And forests.
          And grains.
          1. aglet
            aglet 27 February 2021 13: 50
            +3
            "Oil, gas and aluminum ... and also coal. And timber. And grain"
            on the queue - hemp, wax and bacon. When we forget how to even pump oil and gas, the Chinese will come to our place and they will immediately start driving all this into the heavenly Empire, fortunately, they have already built a pipe. and we will only have to, in Arkhangelsk or Murmansk, sell hemp, wax and bacon to English merchants. or change, for glass, Roman wines and silk
            1. bayard
              bayard 27 February 2021 17: 39
              +3
              About that and the speech in the article that the "rabid boyars" on ... (it will be shorter to the waist) for everything except personal enrichment. As Comrade Lenin said, the bourgeoisie will even sell us a rope, on which we will hang them, if we agree on the price.
              We agreed with these in price.
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 1 March 2021 05: 07
          0
          Are we a supplier of what to most countries in the world?

          squeals of all the screeching people. Here we have no equal, that's for sure
    2. Civil
      Civil 26 February 2021 13: 13
      +6
      Now Russia, the legal successor of the USSR,

      And the communist PRC is the successor to the communist USSR. And these fragments of the CIS are raw materials, poor countries of the third world.
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 37
      0
      Quote: Cosm22
      Russia's dependence on China is only growing. Electronics, engineering products, automobiles, consumer audio-video, digital technology ...

      In my opinion, this dependence has nowhere to go for a long time ... well, there is still military equipment to buy from them ..
  • Civil
    Civil 26 February 2021 13: 14
    +14
    It's just that Russia is an endangered fragment of the USSR. The country is aging, industries are dying out. Aging is not cured. Any doctor will tell you this.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 42
      +4
      Quote: Civil
      Aging is not cured. Any doctor will tell you this.

      Stalin would have cured everyone .. in fact, the government lacks a socialist leader with a tough authoritarian character and a patriot of the peoples of Russia .. there would be such a leader, in 15 years Russia would again be the leader in the world, both morally and materially ..
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 1 March 2021 09: 52
        +2
        Stalin would have cured everyone .. in fact, the government lacks a socialist leader with a tough authoritarian character and a patriot of the peoples of Russia .. there would be such a leader, in 15 years Russia would again be the leader in the world, both morally and materially ..

        only chances are high that you would not have lived up to that moment. Since halfway through, the taiga would have rotted on a wood saw. Because Stalin destroyed not only obvious or potential enemies, but also his followers. Even the most ardent. History does not teach?
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 1 March 2021 10: 08
          -1
          Quote: Ka-52
          Because Stalin destroyed not only obvious or potential enemies, but also his followers. Even the most ardent. History does not teach?

          Stalin cleaned the ranks of high-ranking officials .. regularly .. during his reign 600 tons of people were shot on political charges, this year the decline in the Russian Federation amounted to 680 thousand people .. At the same time, the country developed at an unprecedented pace in history, and the population increased, despite to endless wars. So what are you talking about?
          History teaches that when a true patriot is at the helm of the state, the country and its citizens see and remember this.
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 1 March 2021 11: 50
            +1
            Stalin cleaned the ranks of high-ranking officials ... regularly.

            only officials? Svarog, you are not at a meeting for people with mental disabilities. I know perfectly well which categories were repressed. In the Book of Memory of the Altai Territory there is a list of my relatives who were repressed. The youngest of them is 3 years old. These people lived in the countryside and were mostly ordinary.
            during his reign, 600 tons were shot.

            Shot? And where did the camp corpses fall out of statistics?
            So what are you talking about?

            I only say that several million revolutionary bawlers, who reasoned the same way as you, were very surprised when they were put face to face and shot in the back of the head for betraying communist ideals. What a collision) what he fought for, that's what he did. So be careful with your desires. Otherwise, a "true patriot" will come and go blame the forest on the Kolyma for a plate of boiled rutabagas at best.
            History teaches that when a true patriot is at the helm of the state, the country and its citizens see and remember this.

            Yes, my mother has been working on a collective farm since the age of 14. And she knew the value of the property, about which you are chatting with such pathos. And according to her stories, it did not bring her much pleasure.
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 27 February 2021 06: 01
    -4
    But the Tu-334 and Il-96 are hopelessly outdated and have no chance on the world market. And on ours only by order of the government and with the help of huge subsidies to airlines.
    Well, what would you like to do?
    1. aglet
      aglet 27 February 2021 13: 54
      0
      "Only the Tu-334 and Il-96 are hopelessly outdated"
      when these planes were released, do you know? and since then nothing has changed, with piece production, that's why they are outdated
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 26 February 2021 11: 07
    +11
    Whose interests does Serdyukov represent by destroying the design bureau?

    There is only one "Boeing" and "Airbus" in the language.
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 26 February 2021 11: 28
      +11
      Precisely, this whole story plays into their hands.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2021 11: 37
        +9
        Quote: Destiny
        Precisely, this whole story plays into their hands.

        Look on the net how many components Russia produces for Boeing and Airbus and it immediately becomes clear where the ears are growing from.
        1. bayard
          bayard 26 February 2021 23: 15
          +3
          Have you counted the Chinese aircraft manufacturers?
          China is preparing to become one of the leaders in the aviation industry in the coming years. And we will compete with it / we can make it up in the near future, it is we, because we are counting on the same market niche.
          And as a wide-body companion he doesn't need us at all ...
          And what we are seeing now.
          IN EVERYTHING.
          The beginning of the implementation of the plan for the elimination of the Country.
          They, the managers, no longer need it.
          Therefore, the last sale before the liquidation.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2021 06: 41
            0
            Quote: bayard
            Chinese aircraft manufacturers you have not counted

            I didn't count. Although they will be Russia's ally for a certain period of time.
            1. bayard
              bayard 27 February 2021 06: 57
              +3
              Such an "ally" is more terrible than the enemy. China has already received everything it could from Russia, and does not agree to equal cooperation. But Russia then insists ... on equal shares in the participation and profit from the production of wide-body.
              And China has already said that this will not happen.
              Prior to that, it turned out exactly the same with the Su-27 - I received the first batches, all the technical documentation and the entire technical process, and sent the country of victorious capitalism with a broad communist gesture.
              And so several times.
              Do you think this time will not? smile
              You have too little understanding of Chinese psychology.
              It is completely different.
              And you won't like it.
              And in order to merge the ENTIRE Russian "aviation industry" (and this will happen after the liquidation of all aviation design bureaus), in order to get rid of a competitor (and the MS-21 can become a serious competitor to their own analogue) and from an already unwanted companion, they pay could.
              And pay well.
              And not only for that.
              They want a lot of things.
              And our officials are very (!) Fond of money.

              For good, only for the very fact of this gangway and the criminal conspiracy to liquidate all aviation design bureaus, this whole clique should be immediately arrested and tried by the Military Tribunal for STATE treason during the threatened period.
              But where is the Hero that would have done it.
              There are no such people in the Kremlin ...
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 27 February 2021 07: 03
                +1
                Quote: bayard
                Such an "ally" is more terrible than the enemy. China has already received everything it could from Russia

                Yes, I lived with them, and I know not by hearsay.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 26 February 2021 11: 29
      +20
      this very manager who personifies the whole nightmare and squalor of Russian reality.
      Manager!
      The fault is the ruling class of oligarchs in Russia, which relies on the country's president Putin and his team.
      Boldly! Bravo, Roman! hi
    3. Your stranger
      Your stranger 26 February 2021 11: 48
      +16
      And Serdyuk appointed Boeing and Airbus?
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 11: 55
        +28
        Quote: Stranger
        And Serdyuk appointed Boeing and Airbus?

        No, "the popularly elected Guarantor of the Constitution", the only question is, whose interests does he express?
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 26 February 2021 12: 05
          +27
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          "popularly elected Guarantor of the Constitution", the only question is, whose interests does he express?
          What kind of seditious thoughts do you have ?! Here at VO there is a whole crowd of patriots, foaming at the mouth, proving that the guarantor is "felled", and that all these fines, bans, duties, taxes, retirement ages are all for the good of the country, and you are all foreign agents, bulk, spies of the State Department ...
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 12: 11
            +22
            Quote: Greenwood
            What kind of seditious thoughts do you have ?!

            Oh, I got excited, he is "nothing", it's all Nvalny, together with the State Department and agents of the SBU they are shaking the boat.)))))
            1. Your stranger
              Your stranger 26 February 2021 13: 21
              -6
              But for every like under your post, you risk getting a year in prison,
              Believe me that it is orders of magnitude easier to judge for sedition there than for the destroyed housing and communal services,
              Or for squandering the people's property,
              Tobto for the non-competitiveness of products, due to engineering miscalculations, with prohibitive resource and energy consumption,
              And in connection with the retention of thousands of parasites at work, from cleaning ladies to managers
              1. Lech from Android.
                Lech from Android. 26 February 2021 13: 26
                +5
                Spit three times ... Now Mishustin will become president after Putin, he will show everyone Kuzkin's mother for seditious thoughts ... And now everything is written on a pencil and filed into personal files.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 27 February 2021 12: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  Here Mishustin will become president after Putin,

                  Do you seriously believe this? That Mishustin is capable of changing something?
                  1. gsev
                    gsev 28 February 2021 16: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Do you seriously believe this? That Mishustin is capable of changing something?

                    A year after entering Stankin, Mishustin was in charge of many affairs at the computer center created at this institute and even then had more power or influence than other graduate students.
              2. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 15: 28
                +8
                Quote: Stranger
                But for every like under your post, you risk getting a year in prison,

                No, I try to write accurately, I remember what “extremism” is, I remember Platoshkin, I don’t forget about the “Network case”.
          2. rjpthju
            rjpthju 26 February 2021 13: 02
            +1
            Both Gorbachev and the one who replaced Yeltsin (his name sounds more correct) are all projects from the State Department. The current government began to snap a little, I think for a reason. They will spoil relations and will not invite international observers to the elections. And then, when they receive the mandate of "popular trust", on occasion they will improve relations. If the people do not understand, they will protest, arrange a war, to rally the nation against a common enemy. Themselves, of course, they will not fight, there are slaves.
            1. Your stranger
              Your stranger 26 February 2021 13: 24
              -9
              Moskvich 412, Zaporozhets, Oka, Volga Dt 75, bus groove, also projects of the State Department?
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 15: 33
                +10
                Quote: Stranger
                Moskvich 412, Zaporozhets, Oka, Volga Dt 75, bus groove, also projects of the State Department?

                Dt 75 is a good tractor for its time, many small farmers still work, not being killed. Volga was the best car of the year at the time.
                1. Your stranger
                  Your stranger 26 February 2021 18: 17
                  -2
                  When and where was the Volga car of the year?
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 18: 37
                    +3
                    Quote: Stranger
                    When and where was the Volga car of the year?

                    The GAZ-24 Volga car was awarded international awards: gold medals at the International Exhibitions in Plovdiv (1969) and Leipzig (1970). And the car of the year was GAZ-24-02 (station wagon), I can't find a link quickly.
                    1. Your stranger
                      Your stranger 26 February 2021 19: 27
                      -8
                      Isn't it funny to write about the international exhibition in plovdiv and leipzig?
                2. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 27 February 2021 09: 54
                  +4
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Dt 75 is a good tractor for its time, many small farmers still work

                  He worked as a kid when they started to release him, but he still works for his neighbor, this is POWER !!!
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 27 February 2021 10: 26
                    +2
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    He worked as a kid when they started to release him, but he still works for his neighbor, this is POWER !!!

                    Farmer writes that some of them have a "Stalinets" on the farm. And on Dt-75 we are on agricultural. work went and skated there. One madam, managed to fill up half of a row of grapes on it, got scared and jumped out of the cab)))) While they caught the tractor, now it's funny, and then they almost sent home))))))
                    1. tihonmarine
                      tihonmarine 27 February 2021 10: 29
                      0
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Farmer writes that some of them have "Stalinets"

                      Also saw the S-80, from one "chukhhutoryanin".
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 27 February 2021 09: 52
                0
                Quote: Stranger
                Moskvich 412, Zaporozhets, Oka, Volga Dt 75, bus groove, also projects of the State Department?

                Yes, they will not understand.
          3. Svarog
            Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 44
            -2
            Quote: Greenwood
            What kind of seditious thoughts do you have ?! Here in VO there is a whole crowd of patriots, foaming at the mouth, proving that the guarantor is "felled",

            I don’t believe that there are still people who are not intelligent, but I believe that there are paid ones or at the trough ..
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 43
          0
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          whose interests does he express?

          Thieves and enemies of the people.
        3. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 27 February 2021 06: 43
          -2
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          No, "the popularly elected Guarantor of the Constitution", the only question is, whose interests does he express?

          Interests of Russia and of course business.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 27 February 2021 09: 30
            +4
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Interests of Russia and of course business.

            Unfortunately, the interests of the peoples of Russia and the interests of the oligarchs are not identical.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 27 February 2021 09: 47
              +1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Unfortunately, the interests of the peoples of Russia and the interests of the oligarchs are not identical.

              I do not even conceal, but I identify.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2021 14: 49
        0
        Quote: Stranger
        And Serdyuk appointed Boeing and Airbus?

        Probably not, but of course it was not without their help.
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 26 February 2021 13: 48
      +14
      Quote: tihonmarine
      There is only one "Boeing" and "Airbus" in the language.

      Did they hire him?
      Serdyukov represents the interests of the ruling elite and whatever Putin's fans say, but after the new "XX" Congress they will have to sprinkle ashes on their heads
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2021 14: 51
        0
        Quote: Silvestr
        but after the new "XX" congress they will have to sprinkle ashes on their heads

        Do you think this will happen?
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 26 February 2021 15: 49
          +10
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Do you think this will happen?

          sure. The heir will have nothing left to say in response to the devastation in the country
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2021 06: 45
            0
            Quote: Silvestr
            sure

            But not me.
      2. Genry
        Genry 26 February 2021 16: 04
        +2
        Quote: Silvestr
        represents the interests of the ruling elite and whatever Putin's admirers say, but after the new "XX" Congress they will have to sprinkle ashes on their heads

        O! You are such a Khrushchev!?!
        Everyone urgently sow only_ crap! And in the Arctic - too.
        Khrushchev betrayed Stalin's achievements, created a class of untouchable communal elite, shouting about repression against thieves, traitors and various versions of Trotskyists ...
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 26 February 2021 19: 00
          +10
          Quote: Genry
          O! You are such a Khrushchev!?!

          And think? Khrushchev blamed Stalin, Brezhnev-Khrushchev, Yeltsin-Gorbachev, Putin-Soviet Union with the Polovtsy and Pechenegs. Putin's replacement will do the same.
          1. Genry
            Genry 26 February 2021 19: 19
            +4
            Were there congresses like XX? Only the blunt Khrushchev had a manic persecution of those who supported Stalin - new repressions under the slogan of fighting the personality cult.
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 48
              +5
              Quote: Genry
              Only the blunt Khrushchev had a manic persecution of those who supported Stalin - new repressions under the slogan of fighting the personality cult.

              I completely agree with you .. and it was this idiot character who started the collapse of the USSR .. there are a lot of historical facts about this ..
            2. New Year day
              New Year day 26 February 2021 21: 30
              +9
              Quote: Genry
              Were there congresses like XX?

              The form is not important, the content is important!

              And how did his accomplishments compare to the Soviets?
  • BAI
    BAI 26 February 2021 11: 12
    +6
    The free presentation of the article from the MK continues.
    https://www.mk.ru/politics/2021/02/23/ocherednaya-reforma-serdyukova-grozit-pokhoronit-nadezhdy-na-razvitie-otechestvennogo-aviastroeniya.html
    How did the state-owned enterprise end up in debt? But because the state did not pay him. They say my enterprise, I can delay payments, anyway no one is hot or cold. So there were delays that turned into debts. As the Ministry of Defense did in its time.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 26 February 2021 19: 50
      -2
      Quote: BAI
      How did the state-owned enterprise end up in debt? But because the state did not pay him. They say my enterprise, I can delay payments, anyway no one is hot or cold. So there were delays that turned into debts. As the Ministry of Defense did in its time.

      This is a deliberate destruction of enterprises, depreciation and ransom for a penny, then resale with a huge gain .. stupid sawing scheme .. and no one incurred any responsibility for this, which indicates that those who sawed continue to do it ..
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 26 February 2021 11: 14
    +17
    And all the same, I cannot understand. How so? For five years they laughed at the neighbors. How bad they are, how they owe everyone. And now here is an article that we are not all camilfo. Is the log / mote still valid?
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 26 February 2021 12: 07
      +21
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      For five years they laughed at the neighbors. How bad they are, how they owe everyone.
      Only propagandists from federal channels and not very clever putriots who echoed them laughed and laugh at them. But in fact, everyone understands perfectly well that Russia has the same problems as all its neighbors, only there are much more natural resources.
    2. Igoresha
      Igoresha 26 February 2021 12: 43
      +6
      How so?
      planes are nonsense, the main enemy of the people and an agent of all bourgeois intelligence services contrived and landed
  • mark1
    mark1 26 February 2021 11: 18
    +3
    Many emotions again. And it's not that Roma is completely wrong (in many respects right), but some controversial things slip through for me that somewhat neutralize all this pathos.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 26 February 2021 11: 48
      +6
      There are controversial points and NOT A LITTLE!
      The reorganization itself, the transfer of the design bureaus closer to the production sites, has its pros and cons .... and the one who connects his life with Russian aviation .... will move if everything is organized according to the mind !!!
      And in Moscow there will remain those for whom the capital's boron and entertainment is most important!
      This has already happened in our history and then many went for their BUSINESS !!! Everything worked out!
      How it will turn out now .... there is no understanding and trust, and there are objective reasons for that!
      Not a plus, not a minus ... I don't know, I don't want to guess.
      1. Greenwood
        Greenwood 26 February 2021 12: 16
        +16
        Quote: rocket757
        and the one who connects his life with Russian aviation ... will move
        These are not Soviet times. The working enthusiasm that people had in the 50-70s, when the north and the Far Eastern lands were actively developed, new cities and settlements were built, has long disappeared. Now people work for money trying to survive. And these people are well aware of how much they will lose in quality of life, having moved from the capital to the same extinct and thoroughly criminalized Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

        Quote: rocket757
        , if everything is organized according to the mind !!!
        It will not be for obvious reasons.
        Quote: rocket757
        And in Moscow there will remain those for whom the capital's boron and entertainment is most important!
        Those. all will remain. For it is not about entertainment, but about the comfort of the urban environment, the quality of education and medicine, the level of infrastructure, the operation of public transport, the quality of housing and, most importantly, the level of salaries and prices. Which of this can give a Muscovite the same Ulan-Ude or the same Komsomolsk or the same Irkutsk. All these are endangered cities with a shitty standard of living and a lack of prospects. The regional and federal authorities did nothing to rectify this situation. The population, first of all the youth, from there knocks down at the first opportunity. Do you want the demanded aviation industry specialists with work experience to go there for permanent residence ?! lol Yes, they screw over the hillock faster, there they will be greeted with open arms.
        Quote: rocket757
        This has already happened in our history and then many went for their BUSINESS !!! Everything worked out!
        Then there was a policy of exploration and development of remote regions and the province as a whole. And now there is a policy of sucking out all the juices from the regions, buying out all valuable assets, withdrawing all taxes from regional budgets to Moscow, with the subsequent flow to foreign offshore companies. You can't do anything in such conditions.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 26 February 2021 12: 42
          +3
          Quote: Greenwood
          You can't do anything in such conditions.

          It was enough to write this, everything written above is not a revelation for me! But, everything, you wrote CORRECTLY! And I have a lot, a lot of doubts, starting with the face who was entrusted with this ...
          One thing can be assumed that it is that face that is capable of BREAKING the situation !!! But who will build everything in a new way, according to the mind, RIGHT, can .... this is a question of questions ???
          We don't have a comrade with a pipe, a comrade in pince-nez !!! Might / there will be trouble.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 26 February 2021 13: 30
            -10%
            Quote: rocket757
            we have NO comrade in pince-nez !!!

            By the way, these same Beria pince-nez just made Stalin mad, he constantly shouted to him ........ take off your glasses, snake! This is what Stalin called pince-nez-glasses, and a snake - Beria, he believed that in this way Beria was disguised, in the literal sense.
            And, there is documentary evidence for this - the memoirs of Marshal Golovanov and, the son of Beria himself, Sergo.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 26 February 2021 13: 38
              +4
              There, maybe even now, at the head of any important business, formidable "rhinos", "Kaa boas" and other no less purposeful ones are needed?
      2. hydrox
        hydrox 26 February 2021 12: 53
        +3
        Once the Great Migration of Scientific Peoples was already organized and it happened in 1959: the Siberian Branch of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR was born in Novosibirsk. From the academic rotten bogs M-you and Peter got out, cleaned up, and stroked the ugly ducklings, forming into scientific teams of modern modification and freshness of thought.
        Today managers run the ball there too ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 26 February 2021 13: 07
          +4
          Quote: hydrox
          Today managers run the ball there too

          And who can change it ???
          To say that it is good for the top ones is a commonplace, but at the bottom we did it once, twice, in the entire history of the state ...
        2. Greenwood
          Greenwood 26 February 2021 13: 37
          +17
          Quote: hydrox
          Once the Great Migration of Scientists
          I also have a good example, not from the glorious Soviet past, but from the harsh Russian present:
          2012, Vladivostok, Russky Island - after several years of construction projects for the APEC Summit (for which several hundred billion rubles were allocated), the buildings of the newly formed Far Eastern Federal University appeared on the island, which, with a stroke of the pen of Putin and Shuvalov, who oversaw the construction huge areas in the center of Vladivostok universities: FESU, FESTU, FESAEU (plus the Ussuri Pedagogical Institute). These were the three key universities in Vladivostok, which have been successfully functioning for many decades since the Tsarist and Soviet times, in which tens of thousands of students from all over the Far East (and from other regions of the country) studied. They had many buildings in the city center, huge areas, highly developed infrastructure, laboratory buildings, dormitories, and much more. For the Summit, it was decided to build a new-fashioned America-style university (with a campus and closed infrastructure). As a result, the buildings were built, the Summit was held in a pompous manner, and then the epic relocation of universities began, which lasted several years. What chaos and chaos was going on at the same time is difficult to even describe. Students of those years remember well how they could not move into newly-built dormitories either because of the equipment that was not working, or because of the confusion with the lists of those who settled in. Many teachers and professors who worked at universities for many years gave up the prospect of commuting every day to work from the city to the Russky Island on a shitty public transport (there were very few buses, they went rarely and almost always packed with people) and quit, moving to work in the universities that remained on the mainland (there are many universities and technical schools in Vladivostok). Instead of the old rectors, officials and effective managers were recruited into the leadership. The very first rector of the newly formed university, S. Ivanets, distinguished himself by going to the dock for embezzlement.
          As for dozens of buildings in the city center, after liberation they are still being sold at auctions. In bad weather, the bridge to Russky Island is often closed, which threatens everyone who remains on the island either to spend the night at work, or to get to the city on a single ferry (as happened in November, when the bridge was closed for a week due to freezing rain, and the ferry crossing was liquidated due to unprofitability, I had to drive a ferry from another island).
          This is a vivid example of moving in modern times, and this is within the framework of one city.
          Has it benefited higher education in the region? Definitely not. But corruption and nepotism have multiplied on a cosmic scale.
          1. Falcon5555
            Falcon5555 26 February 2021 20: 29
            0
            To the north of Vladivostok, judging by the map, there is endless taiga. And there was no need to build a bridge there. And then ride on it and depend on the bad weather.
            1. Greenwood
              Greenwood 27 February 2021 15: 14
              +1
              There is no taiga there. Continuous settlements and suburban areas.
              1. Falcon5555
                Falcon5555 27 February 2021 18: 21
                0
                I look at the map - there is taiga. To the northeast right on this peninsula, where the main is Vladivostok. Building only along the shores of the Amur and Uglovoe bays, that is, along the north-western coast, that's all. What about the coast of the Ussuriysky Bay northeast of the main Vladivostok? I'm not saying that north of the airport, there - yes - there are several summer cottages, but they are not continuous, mostly fields and further it looks like taiga. So I mean that if it is necessary to build something there, there is as much land as you want, and there is no need to build an extremely expensive bridge on this land. And from your post it follows that there was no need to build anything at all. Then why the bridge? Do we have so much money that there is simply nowhere to go? ..
                1. Greenwood
                  Greenwood 27 February 2021 18: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  What about the coast of the Ussuriysky Bay northeast of the main Vladivostok?
                  This is an area of ​​solid hills covered with forest with very steep descents and ascents. It is almost impossible to build something like that there.
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  to build an extremely expensive bridge to this land
                  The bridge had to be built once, because on the Russky island there is a village and several summer cottages in which people live on a permanent basis and who needed normal roads (which, however, are still almost non-existent on the island) and the ability to get to the city without being tied to an unreliable ferry crossing. And no one protested against the bridge. But building an expensive campus there to please Moscow officials, who want to hold Summits and forums there once a year, fenced off from the rest of the city, was really unnecessary. Universities did not need to touch.
                  1. Falcon5555
                    Falcon5555 27 February 2021 20: 09
                    0
                    This is an area of ​​solid hills covered with forest with very steep descents and ascents. It is almost impossible to build something like that there.

                    It's probably wrong to argue with a local about the area, but I doubt it. For example, at the intersection of Shamorovskaya highway and Lazurnaya street, it is relatively exactly a couple of square kilometers. On Google you can see panoramas from the roads. In general, from Fadeeva Street to the "Ocean" camp there along the coast there is no more mountainous than in the center of Vladivostok. It is about a kilometer wide and 16 kilometers long. Further, it may be more mountainous, but places for construction can also be found.
                    The bridge had to be built once, because on the Russky Island there is a village and several summer cottages ... And no one protested against the bridge.

                    Again, I doubt it. There is not enough of everything. In addition, the logic itself is unconvincing: we settled on the island on some personal whim, and therefore let's build an exclusive bridge for us at the expense of the all-Russian budget - we will not object, okay, and we will ride on it for free, so be it, so that he does not stand in vain. In Russia, it seems, you can find many places more in need of bridges, moreover, in ordinary, cheap ones.
                    1. Greenwood
                      Greenwood 28 February 2021 06: 16
                      +1
                      Quote: Falcon5555
                      It's probably wrong to argue about the area with a local, but I doubt it.
                      To be honest, we have a dispute out of nothing. Of course, with a very strong desire, you can build anything anywhere. Only how convenient will it be to get to this place later, and is there any sense in this at all ?! The idea of ​​uniting universities and moving to Russian was accepted at the federal level. Obviously, the officials wanted a relatively isolated place from outsiders, which could easily be closed for visiting for the period of any summits, and the island is much more suitable for this than the suburbs of Vladivostok. Plus, one of the conditions was the presence of the sea, beach and gorgeous views, and they are there.
                      Quote: Falcon5555
                      the logic itself is unconvincing: we settled on the island on some personal whim, and therefore, let's build an exclusive bridge for us at the expense of the all-Russian budget - we will not object
                      Before the perestroika, the island was closed to the public, there were military units, objects of the Ministry of Defense, some scientific corps and, accordingly, a military settlement was built for the military to live there. They came with a fairly extensive amount of diverse infrastructure. During the reconstruction, the island was opened to the public, but people continue to live there. They hardly have the opportunity to leave, since housing prices in Russkoye are much lower than the rest of Vladivostok (and the price tag for housing in Vladivostok itself has practically caught up with the price tags of St. Petersburg and Sochi). In addition, geographically, the entire Russky Island plus the surrounding small islands belong to Vladivostok, and it would be wrong that some of the city's residents live separately from others and cannot quickly visit the city on their own business. The bridge was needed there for a long time. In the future, it is on Russky Island that the development of Vladivostok will continue, there is a lot of space there, and there will be no need to arrange construction directly on the mountains. There is also Popov Island and Reinecke Island, there, too, during the Soviet era, villages, sanatoriums, recreation centers, research buildings, and fishing industry enterprises were built. On good terms, bridges also need to be built in the future. And this is certainly more useful than rearranging tiles in Moscow.
                      1. Falcon5555
                        Falcon5555 28 February 2021 22: 00
                        0
                        OK let's see. I will not defend the laying of tiles in Moscow. laughing
                        There is also a bridge that separates the Uglova Bay. Built long ago? A strange bridge - blocks shipping, and in general ...
                      2. Greenwood
                        Greenwood 1 March 2021 10: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Falcon5555
                        There is also a bridge that separates the Uglovoy Bay. Built long ago?
                        This is a low water bridge. It was also built in 2009-2012 as part of the APEC Summit construction projects. It is also very useful, it allows you to cut the path along the federal highway, bypassing the village of Trudovoe and the satellite city of Artyom.
                        Quote: Falcon5555
                        A strange bridge - it blocks shipping, and in general ...
                        There is no shipping as such, only motorboats of fishermen. lol And it is quite convenient for residents too. And here's how it looks in real life:


                        Bridges are perhaps the only benefit of the Summit. And they were built very efficiently. But on the rest of the construction sites, the sawing of the dough was notable.
                2. hydrox
                  hydrox 28 February 2021 07: 20
                  -1
                  Quote: Greenwood
                  But building an expensive campus there to please Moscow officials, who want to hold Summits and forums there once a year, fenced off from the rest of the city, was really unnecessary. Universities did not need to touch.

                  Moscow managers are not interested in your common sense, but the Moscow developer removed a very sickly dirty foam on a contract for the development of Russky Island and the rise of the bridge - everyone remembers the epic landslides and erosion of the approaches to this bridge.
        3. QWERTY
          QWERTY 27 February 2021 14: 27
          0
          Who was supposed to organize the move? Aren't they rectors of existing universities to be transferred? Well, in any case, one of the translators. And by the way, they were supposed to take the premises. And even about the hostels and the lists of students in general shine. That is, the imbits could not organize their own move, but someone is to blame, probably the builders.
          1. Greenwood
            Greenwood 27 February 2021 15: 17
            0
            Quote: ytsuken
            Who was supposed to organize the move?
            Are you asking me? I did NOT come up with this "brilliant" idea. In general, I am against what they have done with the key universities of the Far East, including the one in which I myself studied. Your questions to Shuvalov and Putin. Their idea.
            Quote: ytsuken
            Aren't they rectors of existing universities to be transferred? Well, in any case, one of the translators.
            Nobody asked them, they were presented with a fact. Like all other employees. The decision was from above, the Muscovites were doing this under the leadership of Shuvalov. The rector and deputies were also appointed by them.
            Quote: ytsuken
            And even about the hostels and the lists of students in general shine. That is, the imbeciles could not organize their own move.
            I repeat again. Muscovites were engaged in construction and relocation. This was not an initiative of the universities.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 28 February 2021 07: 28
              0
              Quote: Greenwood
              I repeat again. Muscovites were engaged in construction and relocation. This was not an initiative of the universities.

              And it was this team that led Russia until the time when Mishustin, Belousov and Borisov appeared out of nowhere.
              But with such a meager team, nationalization and economic reform will NEVER be carried out, and in addition, the double spoils plans for the privatization of profit-making enterprises that are locomotives (and not at all agricultural, which could only be a humanist, but not a statesman) as a locomotive! ).
        4. hydrox
          hydrox 28 February 2021 06: 46
          -1
          I believe that you understand who is ALL responsible for such wide swings, and for such shameful results?
          And the moral is simple: to no state. business that requires thoughtfulness and understanding of the LAWS OF NATURE, managers with a liberal arts education should not be allowed in, because knowledge of the Justinian Code and ECONOMICS does not give any skills and understanding in managing state construction, but it gives the visibility of the POSSIBILITY of doing such work - but in fact it turns out a wild Khrushchev system with complete blockage at the finals.
          So it is in Russia: instead of declaring an emergency in the country's economy and starting a complete reform of property in strategic sectors, we smear snot across the territory, content with ZERO (in terms of welfare growth) GDP growth.
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2021 18: 23
        +3
        Quote: hydrox
        Today managers run the ball there too ...

        And who will go there, where he will become a nobody, and where he will be spinning in all corners, these stupid managers, and even for a penny.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 28 February 2021 06: 48
          +1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          these stupid managers, and even for a penny.

          Managers believe that they know better how quickly Russia is flying towards collapse - they also rush it ...
  • forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 26 February 2021 11: 20
    +3
    Under the slogan "disperse managers and designers", designers will be dispersed. Everything is as usual.
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 26 February 2021 11: 32
    +7
    Well, scolding Manturov, do not forget that he pulled out the plant in Ulan-Ude. Kazan, Rostov - yes, everything is already bad now. The author slightly substitutes for the concept, the UAC is not only passenger aircraft. As for the Tu-334, as we can see, the Tu-204/214 did not enter the market, the same fate would have happened to it. But about the "freak" MC-21, Skomorokhov is a typical Skomorokhov, well, I don't like the plane, why pour bile? Irkut, unlike many, works skillfully and knows how, however, the UAC vertical and sanctions are not beneficial. As for Tupolev - I'm not sorry for him in this situation. I read the memoirs of working people, the circus and only, everything about ***, traveled on trips abroad to France, such is cooperation. And with problems on the Tu-204, they almost sent *** er, well, they sent it.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 26 February 2021 12: 03
      +4
      Quote: d4rkmesa
      But what about the "freak" MC-21, Skomorokhov is a typical Skomorokhov, well, I don't like the plane, why pour bile?

      you're right. emotions go wild.
      but I would like facts, the topic is important
  • Igor Polovodov
    Igor Polovodov 26 February 2021 11: 36
    -5
    Rogozin in this company is not so bad ...
  • U-58
    U-58 26 February 2021 11: 37
    +6
    The managers ran into debt. With their high salaries.
    They ask for money. Do not give (in full).
    Salaries are still high and are only growing ["by the percentage of inflation," if anything].
    Sale of super-expensive Moscow lands is planned.
    The patches will be high. And even high bonuses are possible for success in the sale.
    The sales will end.
    The managers will move.
    In shipbuilding, banks, timber industry complex, in .... in general they will not drown, because there is no manager without a high salary.
    And what does the aircraft industry have to do with it?
    Yes, in essence, nothing to do with.
    Today we get for fake planes, tomorrow for fake factories for the production of women's pads, the day after tomorrow for the reform of forestry.
    The state will endure, the country will keep silent.
    We will ride carts in winter and sleigh rides in summer
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 26 February 2021 13: 16
      +6
      And no one has forgotten that managers are a reinforced concrete vertical of our power and they sit on a bitch and they cut him down - this happens only in fairy tales?
      Again: if a good bitch, then cutting it down, you can provide yourself for the rest - there are enough examples in Russia, trillions of dollars born in the Russian open spaces filled the offshore accounts of our nouveau riche gangs.
  • AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 26 February 2021 11: 39
    +1
    .. go somewhere to complain is simply useless. They are in the State Duma, and in the Security Council too. All that remains is to say goodbye ...

    You can probably use this phrase as a final one in unequal disputes and the struggle for the aviation industry.
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 26 February 2021 13: 17
      +3
      And did you try to contact VVP for explanations in his annual television communications with the people? laughing
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 26 February 2021 11: 39
    +5
    Correctly noted: the Mountain gave birth to a mouse ...

    And it is not the fault that aviation design bureaus do not pay off, do not create competitive aviation complexes - they are not independent and completely depend on the state customer of the military-industrial complex and defense export. The legacy of the USSR is the centralization of sales, the design bureau was relaxed.

    And from the state customer there is no competently set task, there is no planned financing, there is no well-established efficient production and there is no sales and ... there is no responsibility - what result "will be achieved", it was clear 10 years ago.

    What is the task, to create a SZ airliner based on the Tu-160, the cretinous insanity of the authorities - crazy ideas, without an economic justification.
    Anyone who understands the cost of creating and the cost of operating a subsonic aircraft and SZ aircraft understands that the topic has crawled out of the brain, not burdened with technical education.
    You can do? We can say the engineers, but the price will ultimately be prohibitive, and the demand will be near zero.

    This is the problem of state administration, in order to set adequate tasks, one must be able to count and understand in this area, but there is not enough brains to grasp the essence.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 February 2021 15: 38
      -3
      And with all this, Russia and the UAE will create a supersonic superjet from the 60s, when the Tu 144 Concorde was created, and so on, a lot of time has passed, new materials of the design system and new technical solutions have appeared that reduce the cost of development and operation, noise and decisive everything that was previously decided impossible.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 26 February 2021 11: 42
    -6
    Unsinkable Serdyukov, now again to the ground, and then ... Let's look for Shoigu.
  • avia12005
    avia12005 26 February 2021 11: 42
    +3
    After Roman's first article on this topic, I had a dream about how at a joint meeting of the State Duma and the government they were singing the "eternal memory" of Russian aviation.
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 26 February 2021 12: 01
      +5
      how at a joint meeting of the State Duma and the government sing the "eternal memory" of Russian aviation.
      It seems that they sang "eternal memory" not only of Russian aviation
  • Free wind
    Free wind 26 February 2021 11: 43
    +13
    We have a strange situation, we climbed into Moscow and you can't get anyone out of there with pliers. All over the world, they do not particularly cling to the capitals, you have to throw rags into the car and are ready to move. This is a tragedy for us.
    1. unaha
      unaha 26 February 2021 12: 33
      +11
      The difference in pay and quality of life is too great. And exclusively in one direction.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 26 February 2021 11: 43
    +4
    First of all, what caused the debts? Overestimation of estimates for both development and raw materials for production, "misuse of funds", this is when at the expense of the company big bosses built themselves cottages, brought highways to them, bought yachts. ... As soon as they ceased to control the income of officials, they launched their grabarks into the budget of the companies under their control! You need to ask about the debts from the ruling party, and his entourage, and demand a refund from them! But, in our country, the innocent will be punished earlier, and the innocent will be rewarded, than they will actually ask the official for embezzlement - the system does not abandon its own people!
    1. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 26 February 2021 12: 28
      +1
      Long emerged at the time of taking loans from Russian banks. And in the future, the SCA was unable to pay even interest. Cottages and what managers have stolen there are little things. Double-digit interest in rubles (and about 7% in dollars) is a heavy burden, in Russian conditions no one is able to give such loans, building something on them. This was clear from the very beginning, but in 2008 they were still thinking about doubling GDP by 2020. The fact that after 2014 it was necessary to pay sharply more, let them thank Nabiulina.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 26 February 2021 11: 44
    +7
    How much is land in Moscow? recourse That's the one. "Strike the iron without leaving the cashier" (.... hand) Sadly, they are being crushed and crushed .... Only nationalization will save the world! request
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 February 2021 11: 52
    +4
    The case can be assessed in different ways, BUT, the leading-involved personality does not evoke sympathy.
    And so, transferring design bureaus to production sites makes sense if they do everything according to their minds.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 26 February 2021 13: 08
      +5
      Not everyone will go from Moscow and St. Petersburg, here it is both cleverly and not cleverly clear - you will not be lucky to wear shackles. And the increased salaries will go into the void without a radical change in the principles of taxiing and doing business in the country. With a figure, the design bureau does not really strain the factories in the world (China makes drawings by e-mail and from Antarctica to send a non-problem and watch the quality and the entire production process online too.) It's just that someone is getting money from developers for a piece of land, so they are trying to cover their pocket. a fig leaf of care for the state - Serdyukov's style is unmistakable.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 26 February 2021 13: 18
        -2
        If we assume that Serdyukov is used as a battering ram, what would destroy, disperse the doubters and those who are sharply opposed .... everything will depend on who is collecting, organizing all this will be THEN !!! The second Shoigu will have to look for.
        1. evgen1221
          evgen1221 26 February 2021 13: 47
          +3
          And in order to reorganize and drive out 90% of parasites, is it necessary to multiply the industry to zero? Buildings will be demolished, sold, people will leave and you will not believe, rebuild? So we borrow money for Treasuries from amers. Absenteeism. Serdyuk just became smarter and with the necessary pieces of paper and money for gifts apparently covered himself up, so the man works for himself, good luck chtoli for the position and paid the amnesty, the dude is beating off the loot ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 26 February 2021 14: 34
            -2
            There may be different options, but ... normally, you have to be in the subject, but from the side of fortune telling, version, etc.
            1. evgen1221
              evgen1221 26 February 2021 15: 31
              +1
              This is certainly true, but the results plus forbes, as it were, do not really differ from our expectations, Appointed, destroyed, rose in the list, the result? The result! Probably this is what they work for.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 26 February 2021 15: 41
                -1
                We still guess within the system, live, flounder in the same place ...
                Without replacing this system with another, nothing will fundamentally change!
                We have long had to work according to the plan, together, to prepare the replacement of the system that does not suit us ...
                The system, of course, will defend itself, divide, lure, deceive ... i.e. do everything to self-preserve!
                And what are we doing ???
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 26 February 2021 16: 02
                  +11
                  Quote: rocket757
                  And what are we doing ???

                  contemplating an inevitable and objective process
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 26 February 2021 16: 06
                    0
                    To contemplate even when everything seems to be going well ... fraught!
                    And ours is very different from good ... very differently!
                    The engine is running ... and the wheels are stuck! There will be no movement, you have to take up the shovel, at least!
                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 26 February 2021 18: 08
                      +9
                      Quote: rocket757
                      There will be no movement, you have to take up the shovel, at least!

                      One shovel can solve your personal problems, but state problems are impossible. You can work as much as you like with a shovel, but the state bulldozer will still destroy everything.
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 26 February 2021 21: 02
                        +2
                        The question is who we consider ourselves / are in OUR state ...
                      2. New Year day
                        New Year day 26 February 2021 21: 25
                        +7
                        Quote: rocket757
                        The question is who we consider ourselves / are in OUR state ...

                        And the question: who does the state consider us
                      3. rocket757
                        rocket757 26 February 2021 21: 33
                        +1
                        So it is mutual, it does not exist separately.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 26 February 2021 11: 56
    +2
    The "fifth column" and the liberals are the main wreckers, not the existing system. laughing In the 90s, they were robbed openly, now according to the law. And the most interesting thing, the aviation market, is released for a foreign manufacturer. And in the media we are convinced that the ugly West and the United States want to conquer Russia, introduce an occupation regime, exterminate the Russians. For example, this article alone does not give the impression that they are capitalists, Russian and Western, acting at the same time? And they just hang noodles for us, they say, get ready for war, defend our capital. "Brazil, there are a lot, a lot of wild monkeys. They will jump" (c)
  • Strashila
    Strashila 26 February 2021 11: 56
    +3
    Judging by the numbers, the Forbes list, many people do not know in our country, the heirs of Koreiko's ideas live and prosper imperceptibly.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 26 February 2021 12: 00
    -2
    Serdyukov will do everything, no doubt about it. Medvedev, who is in the Security Council, will cover. A small group of high-ranking officials easily decided the fate of the aviation industry without having a single specialist from this industry in its composition. handsomely
    Beautiful as always. Just like the headquarters for the fight against Covid-19, everyone is there, even a representative of Aeroflot, but not a single one of doctors and scientists.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 26 February 2021 12: 24
    +5
    Serdyukov, Serdyukov ... that the novel sold out ... Serdyukov is Putin's protege. Why does Roman diligently emphasize Serdyukov bypassing his roof?
    1. Pilot
      Pilot 26 February 2021 13: 42
      +6
      Ask Platoshkin what it is like to accentuate .. And Roman is great, he raised yesterday's questions on this topic. hi
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 26 February 2021 12: 55
    -8
    The author apparently has some kind of personal dislike for Serdyukov). Serdyukov, for example, was scolded a lot for the notorious Mistrals. And in fact, two UDCs were laid to replace the Mistrals only last summer. And not the fact that the fleet will receive them.
  • Glagol1
    Glagol1 26 February 2021 13: 01
    +4
    Of the 224 aircraft, almost 200 are superheats. In fact, an assembly from imported components. So things are even worse. But MS-21 is not a freak at all, it just fell under the sanctions of "civilized" suppliers. Themselves then they each other without problems. It's more difficult for us. Nevertheless, MC-21 is on the homestretch, if there is no full embargo from the "civilized", next year in the series. IL-76MD-90 - production is growing, IL-112 and IL-114-300 soon. So there will be some kind of return, especially at the current rate, lease payments for imports are becoming terrible. But further ... If now Rostekhovites break the design bureau, the chain will be interrupted and the competencies will be reset. And then a disaster. But it will take place in the 40s, when these figures will no longer exist. And these are not used to thinking about the future of the country, now the loot is flowing into their pockets, under the booty there is a service limousine, an apartment of 300 meters, a house on Rublevka 1500 meters, a dacha in Sochi or in the Crimea, orders on the chest.
    Kaif, life is good. And a country with a 1000-year history does not care. This is the kind of power the 21st century has given us. And so everywhere. The tax authorities and the police are smashing private businesses, the population is fed with palm oil, vodka is made from Chinese alcohol, and they get it from feces, etc. etc.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 February 2021 15: 41
      -1
      You show at least one aircraft in the world wherever there are foreign components.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 26 February 2021 16: 06
        +12
        Quote: Vadim237
        You show at least one aircraft in the world wherever there are foreign components.

        do you understand. when cooperation within the EU is understandable and natural. But! If a country positions itself as opposed to the same EU, then what kind of cooperation can there be? request With whom do you plan to cooperate in aircraft manufacturing, car manufacturing, etc.? - True, with moneybags - India, China, but not with technologically advanced advanced countries.
    2. aglet
      aglet 27 February 2021 14: 20
      0
      "IL-76MD-90 - production is growing, IL-112 and IL-114-300 soon"
      if "almost 200 are superheats", then how many of these aircraft have been produced in 11 years? and you call it growing?
  • Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 26 February 2021 13: 01
    -2
    Military aviation is a loss, whatever one may say. Even if you sell more than you keep for yourself, it's still a loss.
    Everything is mixed up in the kingdom of Denmark and Skomorokhovsky. The latter is even more confused. laughing Who is this "to keep"? belay If we are talking about the KLA's debts? .. The military should pay for the military aviation. If the state KLA did something on credit for the state military, then it was their interdepartmental graters, nothing more. Civil aviation would be "a different matter" if the state did not interfere in it. After all, it forced the aviation design bureaus to unite in the UAC and design the SSJ-100. "Super jet", you know ... laughing
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 26 February 2021 13: 01
    +5
    I completely agree with the article. The founders and ideological inspirers of the managerial movement came out and ascended to power from strong guys in crimson with trunks. They cannot do otherwise and don’t know what else is possible. Sell ​​and then sit on kickbacks and permits for the purchase of foreigners, that's nice and understandable for them. The domestic aviation industry will end, well, they will sit down for something else, raise the oil industry from its knees, for example, with the same results, sell it and sit on permits and have concessions.
  • Alex66
    Alex66 26 February 2021 13: 35
    +1
    Who is to blame, by the way, is perfectly clear. The fault is the ruling class of oligarchs in Russia, which relies on the country's President Putin and his team.
    Yes, Putin, not Stalin, is interested in his global world processes. That is why under Stalin there were unattainable rates of economic growth, he was interested in it.
  • kit88
    kit88 26 February 2021 13: 41
    +11
    This is all because there is no demand from effective managers. They did not fulfill the "May decrees" - and to hell with him. We will write others. They stole a billion - okay, everyone is reprimanded, and we will allocate more money.
    ----
    Set a task - demand execution. For non-performance, waste, sabotage - from 15 years with confiscation.
    Then the managers run in.
    1. aglet
      aglet 27 February 2021 14: 26
      0
      "This is all because there is no effective demand from managers. We didn’t comply with the May decrees, and fuck it. We’ll write others. We’ve stolen a billion - okay, everyone will be reprimanded, but we will allocate some more money.
      ----
      Set a task - demand execution. For non-performance, waste, sabotage - from 15 years with confiscation "
      who is there to confiscate? all or friends, or friends' sonOchki or friends of friends. stole, plundered, ruined the business? we will transfer to another position, let him raise more dough. and where he ruined, we'll throw some more money, and we'll put the next one, and the next one to cook. and personally appoint. so they work
  • Alex
    Alex 26 February 2021 13: 49
    +13
    For people who did not work in production, it seems that the transfer of design bureaus to a plant producing products will give some kind of positive effect. But this is not the case. At one time I worked as a designer at a factory producing military equipment. So there have always been developers of research institutes and design bureaus with their own school, base, stands, equipment. And yes, they were usually located in Moscow, Leningrad. And serial factories had their own designers and technologists who provided support in the production of serial products. And these are completely different people. The developers, of course, participate in the release of prototypes, but this is where their participation ends. They have nothing to do at a serial plant. Those who started this optimization do not understand anything in production. Well, if we take into account the fact that experienced designers are people of pre-retirement age. And pensions in Moscow and the provinces differ at times, it becomes clear that not a single person in their right mind will go anywhere from Moscow. And this is already fraught with a complete loss of competencies. In my opinion, this is no longer optimization, but some sort of sabotage.
  • Gvardeetz77
    Gvardeetz77 26 February 2021 14: 11
    +6
    Quote: Starover_Z
    Quote: prior
    We were told that "optimization" and "import substitution" concern technology.
    No, first of all they concern the Russian people.

    Interestingly, these "optimizers" of aviation do not want to vacate expensive Moscow offices and go further from Moscow, to Siberia or the Far East ?!

    It is unlikely that they have before their eyes an example of one optimizer who spent a little time in her multi-room apartment, pissed pictures and everything is fine with her. Eugenia's name.
  • g1v2
    g1v2 26 February 2021 14: 23
    +2
    At the same time, these "average" superjets have already been released for 200 pieces. And it is the third long-haul aircraft in terms of mass produced on the territory of Russia and the RSFSR. And if you take the whole union, then the fourth. And it was he who returned Russia to the list of world manufacturers of civil aviation. request The dog barks - the caravan moves on. Pm despite howls and ms 21 will go into series and il114. Expensive, long, but creating something whole from the wreckage of the Soviet aircraft industry is not the easiest thing. In any case, someone is busy with business, and someone howls. To each his own. wink
    And by the way, how interesting. As many as two articles on the same topic from Banshee per day. It looks like someone has stepped on the tail. wink
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 26 February 2021 16: 13
      +15
      Quote: g1v2
      At the same time, 200 of these "average" superjets have already been released.

      Released! But!

      Aeroflot has only 253 of 54 planes of these jets! Only 21%. And this is for 10 years of production!
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 26 February 2021 22: 15
        0
        Isn't that enough? 54 aircraft of the same make in one airline? Plus there are almost a hundred more to be built for them. Only now Aeroflot is dividing the fleet between its daughters. Rossiya Airlines will receive all superjets and future ms 21. Will build a regional transportation network. To fly not through Moscow, but between regions. Victory is kind of like all Boeings. And Aeroflot itself will become a fashionable airline.
        But in general, over the past 10 years, the success is amazing. Comparing with Boeing and watermelons is a rare nonsense. They spud the whole world. But you can already compare with the bombardier and embayers.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 27 February 2021 13: 48
          0
          Quote: g1v2
          Isn't that enough?

          Not enough for whom? For Congo, Zimbabwe this is even a lot, but for a world power there is nothing.
          When was the last time you flew? The percentage of domestic aircraft is negligible. And given that more than half of the components for Superjets and MS are imported, what can we talk about?
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 26 February 2021 16: 41
      +1
      as far as i know, il-114 is a much more controversial project than ssj
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 26 February 2021 22: 27
        +5
        IL114 - replacement of AN24. Considering that the average age of our AN24 is over 20 years, and in some companies even over 40, the replacement seems to be overdue, no? request Initially, there was an agreement with Yanyk to change the AN 24 to AN140, but after the break with dill, the option disappeared. Tch il114 is required. Plus, on its basis, they are going to make several models for the MO. Patrolman, antisubmarine, etc. But I do not advise listening to advertising speeches about this about thousands and thousands of cars produced in the future. The capacity of the civil aviation market for such aircraft is 100-120 units. Another 50-100 pieces can be bought by the military. Export prospects are dubious. Just because there has been an140 on the market for a long time and not to say that buyers are running after Antonovites. But in theory, in Africa and other regions of the third world, it may be in demand. What happens - xs. But I would not count on more than 150-250 cars. Fortunately, this is not the most expensive plane, and besides, it is being built on the basis of a model that has already been flown. In theory, at least this should facilitate certification.
        Well, the main problem of all our civil aircraft is a small market. Perhaps only ms21 can feel confident. For him, we have a market of cars for 400-500. The rest of the models will not beat off only due to our market.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 27 February 2021 02: 54
          +5
          our economy has shrunk so much in comparison with the USSR that no plane can feel confident, if only because the suppliers' medium is too liquid.
          IL-114 aircraft is necessary, but the problem is that it turned out to be much worse than planned and does not have a big advantage over its predecessor, if we make an allowance for more modern components. It was created not just to replace, but to become a universal base for many years to come, but in fact its potential is only enough to temporarily cover the hole for 15 years, there is no reason to release it for a long time. Hence the small batch size and the problems associated with it.
          ms-21 turned out much better, but it still has enough problems. , We must pay tribute to ssj - without experience working on it, ms-21 would have turned out to be much kondo. We would have caught a number of additional rakes there. However, we still have a lot of pressing and unsolved problems in our propeller aircraft.
          The most commonplace is the personnel and the normal organization of work, and it looks idiocy that in the design of the IL-114 it turned out that it turned out to be 3 tons heavier than the plan. 3 tons is just a huge overload. For comparison, this is the La-5FN fighter.
          And I'm afraid that in the light of the events of the reorganization arranged by Chemezov, everything will become much sadder than
          while there is.
          1. g1v2
            g1v2 27 February 2021 12: 56
            -1
            You are confusing Il112 and Il114. Overload - on IL 112, which is a transporter to replace the AN26. IL 114 - regional passenger to replace the AN24. There is no overload there.
            The IL114 in its modern design is a serious modernization of an already flown aircraft, so this is not a design from scratch. In theory, the transition to IL114 of Soviet civil aviation was planned back in the 90s, but the USSR collapsed and the aviation industry with it. This is of course a replacement, but to design a new car in this class from scratch you need a market. We lost not only the USSR market, but also the markets of Eastern Europe and third world countries. In addition, in Soviet times, we supplied aircraft for nothing or in debt that we were not going to give back to us. Geopolitics however. Now we sell equipment, so we need to lure buyers. In principle, the competition in this class is not so great, and there are chances to advance in Africa, Asia and Latin America. We'll see. Moreover, Pratt & Whitney offers their engines for export, which means they see prospects in the car. What happens-xs. request
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 27 February 2021 13: 08
              +1
              our domestic market will easily swallow 400 of these machines. This is enough to start sales abroad on the basis of exploitation. All that is needed is a constructive, integrated approach to machine implementation.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 27 February 2021 15: 20
                0
                Well, such machines we have for 15-16 years, according to RBC, in the airlines flew like about 120 pieces. This data can be guided by. 400 cars, in my opinion, is hardly possible even with state support. There is no one to buy so much. There are currently not so many regional airlines that would provide such a market. And there are no so many routes for them. This means that, first, it will be necessary to create a market and a network of regional transportations based on small air terminals. In general, this work will last for years and will require serious investments. Well, again, a question of service. It will be necessary to create a service network and stocks of spare parts. In general, it is possible to create, but only the state can do it.
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 27 February 2021 15: 50
                  0
                  Quote: g1v2
                  No one to buy so much

                  we have very poorly developed regional transportation
                  that's why the demand is small.
                  and for a country like ours, the development of aviation, including a small one, should have always been important (before, most of the remote villages, settlements and small towns had operating airlines), which was what happened in the USSR. And the new government is only interested in the communication of the delivery of resources for export.
                  1. g1v2
                    g1v2 27 February 2021 16: 05
                    +2
                    Well, the program for the modernization of small air terminals for this was adopted. And the order for 100 superjets and benefits just for the development of regional transportation were organized. request Another thing is that in the USSR most of these routes were unprofitable and subsidized. We have capitalism and airlines do not want to incur losses. Most of the airlines are private. Now they are creating a new state-owned company for transportation in the Far East and the North, but how much will it buy? A few dozens? request
                    And the communication of the delivery of resources just pulls the entire development of the regions. If it were not for hydrocarbons, etc., then in many regions all development would have stopped. And so the companies pull everything with them - infrastructure and mechanical engineering and much more. There's even shipbuilding. Sechinskaya Zvezda is, in fact, our only full-fledged modern shipyard capable of building any ocean-going ships. The development of Siberia also did not go from high aspirations - they followed fur. This is normal. request
                    1. yehat2
                      yehat2 27 February 2021 19: 07
                      +1
                      an economy that holds onto only the most profitable projects is doomed to be squalid.
                      the real profitability of air transportation on normal vehicles is at the level of 2-2.5 bus prices. Doesn't it pay off?
            2. aglet
              aglet 27 February 2021 14: 41
              0
              "The IL114 in its modern design is a serious modernization of an already flown aircraft, so this is not a design from scratch. In theory, the transition to IL114 of Soviet civil aviation was planned back in the 90s."
              well, that is, il114 was already completely ready in the 90s, if the transition to it was already planned then? and that, for 30 years it has been modernized, prepared for production .. and nothing? and this plane, already 30 years old, how ready for production?
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 27 February 2021 15: 50
                +1
                Not really. In the 80s, plans were made for the development of the Soviet aviation industry and air transportation. Orders were given to the industry for the development of new aircraft. Transitions to new models were planned for the 90s. Il96, for example, was supposed to replace the Il86. And the silt 114 was supposed to change the AN24. Il114 made its first flight in 1990. It was produced in Uzbekistan, like il76 by the way. But the union collapsed and the united aviation industry collapsed along with it.
                A significant and important part of the aviation industry fell off with Ukraine, and Tashkent fell off. The cooperation was broken. Air travel also collapsed immediately. In the USSR, they were specially artificially cheap, and after the transition to the market prices soared. For me in the 90s, flying an airplane was like a trip in a limousine. Luxury item. Since the end of the 80s, I haven't flown airplanes for 15 years - it was stupidly too expensive. Aeroflot began to be divided. There were a lot of planes then, there was no one to order new ones - air transportation was much less than the Soviet ones. Plus, cheap used imported aircraft came to the market, and there was no one to produce it. Moreover, the Tashkent aircraft plant began to bend itself. request
                Then, when the already well-fed Putin times came and began to fly again, the issue of updating the aircraft fleet was raised. But then we tried to hold on to Ukraine, the agreements were for orders an140 and an148 from them. Moreover, there were a lot of Russian spare parts in them. Tch il114 was also not needed. Therefore, they remembered about him only after breaking with dill. An140 - has become an enemy aircraft, and the AN24 fleet is already decrepit. But again, 30 years have passed since the creation of il114, and there was no point in releasing it in its former form. And the native engine was raw. Uzbeks have flown with Pratt & Whitney in recent years. In fact, the modernization of the IL114 started only after the Maidan. The engine for it was also modernized at the same time.
                Again, under il114, an automatic assembly line was created in Lukhovitsy. In general, there was a lot of work. If it had not been for the collapse of the USSR, then of course il114 would have been flying since the 90s, but this is the fate of the bird.
                In general, as I am joking, the main customers of the Ukrainian Maidan are probably the Ilyushin people. Since we have a lot of the Academy of Sciences, the Ilyushin residents simply dropped orders for import substitution. Otherwise, they would still buy AN. request
    3. aglet
      aglet 27 February 2021 14: 31
      0
      "Expensive, long, but creating something integral from the wreckage of the Soviet aircraft industry is not the easiest thing."
      first, quickly, without reckoning with anything, in the sweat of their brow, they destroyed the Soviet aviation industry, and now, expensively, for a long time, from the wreckage, they will create their own. the main words here are expensive and long
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 27 February 2021 16: 19
        +2
        The destruction of the Soviet aircraft industry is a natural consequence of the collapse of the empire and the Soviet economy, just as the industry of the Russian empire perished in the flames of the civil war. Nothing new. There were cases when foreign "investors" specifically destroyed a competitor, but basically everything happened by itself.
        1. Due to the fact that part of the aviation industry was in other states and cooperation was broken.
        2. Due to the drop in the level of air freight. The population became impoverished, and transportation became much more expensive.
        3. Due to the opening of the market and imported cars rushing into it. Primarily second-hand. Our planes were built for a completely different model of the economy and, within the framework of capitalism, stupidly lost in terms of the cost of maintenance and maintenance.
        Well, to create something of your own, of course, is long and expensive. Again, there are only a few countries and companies in the world that have their own production of long-haul aircraft. Boeing and competitors' watermelon are not going to be allowed into the divided markets. The Superjet is in a different class and therefore competes with the Brazilian embayo and the Canadian bombardier, so it is easier for him. But as soon as he devours some serious piece of the world market, the states will definitely impose sanctions. The Western aviation industry does not need competitors. PM just won't be.
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 26 February 2021 14: 40
    -3
    From Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Voronezh, Novosibirsk, Komsomolsk-on-Amur. It is clear that no one will go and virtually all the work of aviation design bureaus will be destroyed.


    real designers and specialists will go and other workers who don’t think they’re there and nafig are unnecessary.
  • 123456789
    123456789 26 February 2021 15: 09
    0

    And when united corporations were created, the result was not obvious to anyone. laughing
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 26 February 2021 15: 28
    -2
    "But the super-efficient manager Manturov believed and still believes that the SSJ-100 is a breakthrough. Which allowed the birth of another ugly creature, the MC-21, which has no chance of flying at all, since it is also half of imported components that cannot be replaced in any way." The author has already finished the whole brain to do especially with this "From Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Voronezh, Novosibirsk, Komsomolsk-on-Amur. It is clear that no one will go and in fact all the work of aviation design bureaus will be destroyed." They will all move to the territory of Moscow technoparks - and when asked where the $ 500 billion in debts came from over 11 years, the answer was given by the state in the form of loans for new engines, aircraft, modernization of the production base, both civilian and military.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 26 February 2021 16: 23
    +3
    Where does the information come from that the MC-21 is half of foreign components? The wing did not immediately, but they made their own, their engine, the hull and interior filling are not all, but almost all domestic. Recently they reported that the seats in the salon are also their own. There is air conditioning, a fuel supply system and a number of other components that are really foreign, but replacing them is not so much difficult as unnecessary costs. In cooperation, you don't always need to go to extremes. Of course, the plane is not all its own, but in most of the key elements - its own. So what are the claims? Can you see a crowd of suppliers, which was before the collapse of the USSR and CMEA? It was not the engineers who designed the MS-21 that destroyed it.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 26 February 2021 16: 40
    +2
    I never thought that the majority would be happy for a Moscow residence permit. I always believed that it was a vocation to design airplanes, and not that all design bureaus were huddled in Soviet-built squares, with all the problems on communications. They would move to new squares, what's wrong with that. It's easier for young people, life is dear in Moscow. MS 21, Il 114 seem to have forgotten to mention, in a year we will look at the results.
    1. sniperino
      sniperino 26 February 2021 20: 47
      +3
      Quote: tralflot1832
      I never thought that the majority would be happy for a Moscow residence permit. I always believed that it was a vocation to design airplanes.
      Of course a vocation. The more talented the designer, the harder it is for him to refuse such work. But they are not going to deprive valuable employees of their Moscow registration, probably. For what it is, someone has to make a profit.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 27 February 2021 10: 28
      0
      I always believed that it was a vocation to design airplanes, and not that all design bureaus huddled in Soviet-built squares, with all the problems with communications. They would move to new squares, what's wrong. And it's easier for young people, life is dear in Moscow.
      Vocation and dynasties, from birth you have to be born in the family of an engineer and designer to begin with ... this for 5 years of the university does not appear at lectures and after defending a diploma, of course, somehow out of thin air ... New sites need to be built, again to invest money, take these grandmothers from the budget, and at the beginning of the grandmother to contribute to this very budget, and so along the chain ... And for young people, well, how else will they look at this, namely, to change their place of residence in Siberia and Dalny East, where honey is not smeared either, especially if the family is close by and other circumstances put pressure on the brains !?
    3. Greenwood
      Greenwood 27 February 2021 15: 23
      -1
      Quote: tralflot1832
      I have always believed that the design of airplanes is a vocation.
      You are stuck with the mentality in Soviet times.
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Not that all design bureaus are huddled in Soviet-built squares, with all the problematic communications.
      For the most part, these problems are not critical, especially in comparison with what will happen in the provinces in the event of a hypothetical move.
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Yes, and it's easier for young people
      Where is it easier for the youth? In poor Irkutsk? Or half-dead Komsomolsk? Young people run away from there at the first opportunity, as well as from everywhere in the Far East. Are you seriously thinking that a Muscovite, accustomed to a certain standard of living provided by the capital, will go to these towns?!?! fool
      Quote: tralflot1832
      life in Moscow is dear.
      You obviously have never been to the Far East in your life. there prices for any products are much higher than in Moscow, housing and communal services are higher, and salaries are 2-3 times lower. Only housing is expensive in Moscow. But when compared with Vladivostok, the difference is also not very huge.
  • sniperino
    sniperino 26 February 2021 20: 35
    +1
    Quote: sniperino
    Quote: Svarog
    But what is your idea of ​​destroying Russia?
    In the elimination of the destroyers of Russia to accelerate its development.
  • shadow
    shadow 26 February 2021 21: 30
    +1
    Again the order.
  • dimasik-nl
    dimasik-nl 26 February 2021 23: 26
    -2
    MC21 freak, the author of the campaign ganjubas blew ...
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 27 February 2021 04: 09
    +5
    Unfortunately, the author's sarcasm is justified ...., the picture is certainly sad, but real ..., if ... whether the polymers, will also love the planes .... it's sad.
    1. lopvlad
      lopvlad 27 February 2021 05: 59
      0
      Quote: Iskazi
      pr ... are polymers


      and they were the same polymers (composites) in general so that they could be wiped off?
  • squid
    squid 27 February 2021 06: 01
    +1
    "We can now stop and ask the question: who is to blame and what to do?
    Who is to blame, by the way, is perfectly clear. The fault is the ruling class of oligarchs in Russia, which relies on the country's President Putin and his team. Oligarchs, they don't care what tomorrow ... "

    What have the "oligarchs" to do with it? The UAC is 96% owned by the state, as you say. And it is run by officials, not the "bourgeoisie" hated by the Soviet patriots.
    Big business is just looking into the future - it modernizes enterprises and creates new ones. Of course, when he is not very much afraid that the state will take everything away. There are, for example, cellular operators - a completely successful high-tech industry, even by world standards, created from scratch with private money. There are IT giants like Yandex. There are successful s7 airlines. And they do not like and do not support unnecessary parasites - "managers" in private business - they have their own money, why spend it on something useless. And the state, if it doesn’t give a penny, will only take it away. Of course, Russian private business cannot yet build planes like Boeing or launch missiles like Musk. Not mature enough, there are no competencies, experience, and guarantees that all this will not be taken away sooner or later. But what can you do if 35 years ago in our country they were imprisoned for this, and even earlier they were shot? And they shot, by the way, in due time, the whole class of active, capable and successful people.
    But at the state enterprises dear to the heart - freedom and expanse. To attach children by "effective managers", to sell property, to divide into clans. Sawing more and faster, until they were removed from office - not their own. And the state, to which everything belongs, is far and high, it has no time to keep track of everything. Yes, and it all consists of the same. And if you need to cover the debts. It becomes especially fun when all enterprises of the same profile merge into a single state corporation, in order to "increase efficiency" - and there are no competitors in the struggle for state money at all.
    So the question "who is to blame" is not as clear as it seems to the author.
    1. aglet
      aglet 27 February 2021 14: 45
      0
      "So the question" who is to blame "is not as clear as it seems to the author"
      what, all the same little green men? I also suspect them, there is no one else
      1. squid
        squid 27 February 2021 14: 46
        0
        Red. If someone has not mastered my opus.
        1. aglet
          aglet 27 February 2021 14: 48
          -1
          "Red. If someone has not mastered my opus"
          are you Putin and his camarilla red ?. Or are the Bolsheviks still to blame?
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 27 February 2021 15: 27
      -3
      Quote: squid
      And they shot, by the way, in due time, the whole class of active, capable and successful people.
      Most of your "active, capable and successful" in fact were ordinary hucksters, thieves and fraudsters who tried to profit from people, so the state treated them exactly as they deserved.
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 3 March 2021 12: 33
      0
      Boeing is in trouble now, including because swindlers and thieves like Musk have come.

      Since you have problems with history, I bring to the attention that individual and collective entrepreneurship existed in the USSR until 1960, and it was destroyed by the main denouncer of the Stalinist regime so hated by you, under which all these design bureaus arose, Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev, better known like Khrushch, Bald ..., etc.
  • Runway
    Runway 27 February 2021 06: 07
    +2
    There is no doubt about the patriotism of the author, as well as of many commentators. People are worried.
    Their opponents claim that there is a forward movement in the development of the Russian Federation, import substitution and localization of production of foreign companies in our country.
    Representatives of both parties use exclusively domestic technology (from a coffee maker to a car) laughing...
    The novel, the term great power, refers to the Russian Federation at the moment exclusively as a state with unsurpassed territorial parameters.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 27 February 2021 10: 21
      +1
      The novel, the term great power, refers to the Russian Federation at the moment exclusively as a state with unsurpassed territorial parameters.
      but, it is doubly tragic already that only territories remained in reality ...
  • Intruder
    Intruder 27 February 2021 10: 20
    0
    Well, for a great power, this is not so offensive, is it?
    Something, for Saturday everything is bad ..., everything is somewhere in ... the same place, is rolling increasing acceleration (... eh, there were people ...) now, only "effective" with laptops !? Hmm, the aviation industry was buried in the Russian Federation !!!
  • Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 27 February 2021 18: 26
    +1
    "From Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Voronezh, Novosibirsk, Komsomolsk-on-Amur. It is clear that no one will go and virtually all the work of aviation design bureaus will be destroyed."
    This phrase killed me. Why won't he go? It is clear that all of you, including the Design Bureau and the UAC leadership, have warmed up your priests in Moscow and do not want to tear them away from a warm place. To be honest ... disgusting. In my opinion, it is time to destroy Moscow (or change - as you like), as a city that hinders the development of Russia.
    1. zenion
      zenion 27 February 2021 22: 11
      +2
      First they destroyed the USSR, now they will destroy Russia, but that's okay, the most important thing is the banks.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 3 March 2021 12: 27
        0
        To destroy the USSR was enough six years. Putin, with a break in power for 20 years, could have been destroyed 3 times, but still nothing.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 3 March 2021 12: 28
      0
      A simple question, why should design bureaus need to go somewhere when they have all the infrastructure near Moscow? Or do you think that there is no need to create any wind tunnels and experimental sites in new places?
      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 3 March 2021 19: 52
        0
        Everything is possible. Why not create? It all depends on the point of view - in the Second World War they created the infrastructure in the most difficult conditions ... Do you think this is the end of it? My parents went to Tmutarakan to a Komsomol construction site and they dragged me there when I was 4 months old. Oh, well, of course, a wind tunnel in Moscow - not a leg from there. I wonder how to develop the territory if you live with your booty stuck to Moscow? No way. As I said, it seems to me that Moscow is hurting Russia - where is the largest number of liberals? .. and there are still a lot of questions for Moscow.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 5 March 2021 08: 11
          0
          You can simply ask a natural question, why the hell is it necessary to create something that already exists in Moscow? About the Second World War, just do not need, you already have serious problems with understanding the issue. Immediately before the Second World War and the introduction of martial law with the binding of workers to factories, it would simply not have been possible to simply take and drag the plant, since the workers in the mass would be against it, and you cannot order them.
          1. The comment was deleted.
  • zenion
    zenion 27 February 2021 22: 10
    +4
    Stalin said at one bureau that the bureaucracy breeds bureaucracy, but the country needs engineers, teachers and doctors.
  • 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 28 February 2021 14: 05
    0
    VVP, stop, what are you doing ?!
    Do you really need the glory of Gorbachev and Yeltsin ?!
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 2 March 2021 07: 10
    0
    And who will buy airplanes from us if they supply them from the West for free! Our manufacturers will reduce the price, so overseas friends will give airplanes for free! If only to kill Aviaprom in Russia! Nothing will help here except a government decree banning or restricting the purchase of foreign-made aircraft! They are ready to just donate planes! If only Russia would not let them out!
  • lazy
    lazy 2 March 2021 12: 32
    +1
    This freak is tu334, originally from the 70s and in terms of control systems and a 3-member crew (only one extra crew member would lose millions a year, and if there were 10, 50 aircraft in the fleet), plus because of the engines in the back it loses to the aircraft under the wing ( they need to be balanced with something else, otherwise one more chassis is needed as on il62 and this is also extra weight) therefore airlines did not buy the flying 334, but they began to buy an148 because it is economically more profitable, however, 334 was so "domestic" that it had flags of Ukraine and Russia and now would have the same problem that 148 engines where to get? however, the sect of the holy innocent 334, even with numbers in his hands, it is impossible to prove anything
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 3 March 2021 08: 41
    0
    Don't forget about the Su-57, which doesn't exist.

    And the fact that at the time of the appearance of the super-creator Sukhoi Superjet 100 (the hand does not rise in Russian letters), the completely domestic Tu-334 was already flying perfectly


    The question of the Tu-334, which nobody needs, was dismantled as if not decades ago, this unit could only be rolled around the airfield, and 3 crew members and the rear engine layout were already in 1990 a complete archaic.

    The production volumes of SSJ have already exceeded 200 cars (2021 units as of March 207), this is a very good series, even by Soviet standards. There are also export deliveries, while you need to understand that you can do at least some localization, our planes will not be allowed into the markets of "developed" countries divided between Western companies in any case, and the entire Soviet civil aviation industry existed solely at the expense of a similar lack of access for Western companies to the Soviet market, as well as not very developed countries. Neither quantitatively nor qualitatively, it could not compete with Boeing and Watermelon, and by the 80s it actually fell behind by a generation, like the auto industry, which was shown by the 90s, when airlines preferred a used Boeing to a new "carcass" ...

    According to MS-21, as they say in "these our Internet": "remember this tweet." But something tells me that the author will not be embarrassed to remember him when the MC-21 goes on flights.

    As for pests, Skomorokhov is engaged in sabotage, spreading false information. After all, it is very easy to forget that we simply did not have any civil aircraft construction in 2000. But, Russia, as you know, always dies especially hard, and as never before.

    Well, returning to the criticism of SSJ, when someone says that the liners are not intensively operated, the service is poor, then I have a question, but if instead of SSJ there was a Tu-334, or, God forbid, An-148, then there would be no such problems It was? Would a service appear by magic? I'm afraid to disappoint, but creating an airplane in the design bureau is one thing, in tsarist Russia, Ilya Muromets was invented by Sikorsky, mass production of it is different (In this regard, with the Muromets, “Russia We Lost” was done extremely fluidly), maintenance of operation this is the third, in this regard even the USSR had big problems. And I would like to know how, everything that Watermelon and Boeing have been creating for decades, having access to premium markets, should create a UAC in a few years, without even having a proven line of aircraft that would bring profit, Soviet models - it's just a junk, and SSJ is still only beating off investments.