Military Review

Well, we are not 41 years old, and the war is not on our territory

157

Our country is at war. In Syria, it is open. Where not only terrorists, but also their allies are fighting against us without hiding. There are other wars, secret, but no less important.


There are those who solve problems on these fronts with their blood and lives. And there are "so-called military" who

"The war (which the country is waging) stops at the end of the working day."

And it is not at all a fact that the former influence the situation more strongly than the latter.

Prologue. From a book about war


For the 40th anniversary of Victory (1985) a large series of books was published in the USSR - collections of memoirs of living veterans with many vivid details.

One of the most disturbing to the author (then a student of the USSR) was the memories of a simple driver of a lorry, where there was an episode of the first battles in the Crimea in 1941. Arriving from the front line to the ammunition depot near Simferopol on Sunday, he was faced with the fact that the warehouse manager had a day off.

The issue was eventually resolved, a lorry with shells for artillery went to the isthmus to the fighting troops. But the example of "peacetime psychology" (in a country that had fought to the death in a terrible war for several months) was very striking.

Another war


Report to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation.

Taking into account the problematic issues of conducting hostilities in the Syrian Arab Republic:

• their high cost, and the need to limit it without reducing combat effectiveness;

• limitations of resource indicators of videoconferencing equipment (aircraft and helicopters);

• the need to conduct continuous round-the-clock reconnaissance in the theater of operations - both terrorists and the activities of "so-called partners" (VGK);

• strict requirement of high-precision application weapons Videoconferencing, with documentation of the results of strikes;

• the need to ensure a quick response to changes in the situation (delivery of high-precision strikes of the aerospace forces in the shortest time);

• the need to constantly maintain the network of retransmission and control of the UAV over the entire theater of operations, providing a decisive role in opening and monitoring the situation.

It is proposed to create, in a short time, a reconnaissance and strike system with a low operating cost, designed to solve problems:

• constant and round-the-clock monitoring of the situation in the theater of operations - conducting radio and electronic reconnaissance (RR and RTR) with precise determination of the coordinates of radiation sources, optical-electronic reconnaissance (by means of UAVs);

• retransmission and control of UAV actions over the entire theater of operations;

• operational analysis of the ground situation, generation of control center data with ensuring its operational transmission for aircraft with the Hephaestus system;

• control of actions [cut];

• maintenance of electronic warfare.

The implementation of these tasks is proposed at the expense of a constantly functioning system (complex) from a group of at least 6 aircraft (with a constant presence in the air of at least 2 aircraft) M-101T "Gzhel" (development of the Myasishchev EMZ) with small-sized means of PP, RTR, control and retransmission of UAVs, means of reception and transmission of the control center to VKS aircraft with the Hephaestus system.

An increase in the number of M-101T aircraft (there are sufficient numbers in storage) as part of the complex allows for constant patrolling of 3 pairs of M-101T over the areas:

• Khmeimim-Aleppo;
• Damascus-Palmyra;
• Deir ez-Zor.

The proposed system (complex) in terms of RR and RTR is an improved analogue of the US Armed Forces systems of the Guardrail type with significant superiority in combat capabilities due to the inclusion of UAVs and means of generating and transmitting the control center into the complex.

06.12.2016 years

Earlier, the author has repeatedly addressed reports on a number of issues of the country's military security. And in a number of cases this had consequences.

Example.

At the very beginning of our operation in Syria (due to the fact that at that moment we were still officially “not there”, on the advice of the “senior comrades” the addressee was changed from the Chief of the General Staff to the “Senior military adviser in the SAR”) along a number of problematic issues of our group there.

Then there was a call from a friend:

You “have nothing to do” [another expression was used], what are you writing to NGSH?

The same person calls a few months later:

“Thanks for writing. We made it in time. "

The phrase referred to a problematic security issue, but on which they worked out in a timely manner. And they managed to close it (before the enemy who was preparing for this could take advantage of it).

The "brain organ of war" in our Armed Forces is the General Staff (General Staff), and in it - the Main Operational Directorate (GOU). Accordingly, questions about belonging went to them.

The above report was sent by the author to the e-mail address of the Minister of Defense's reception on the morning of December 6, 2016 (about its background - below). At the same time, there was complete confidence that he would leave as belonging to the GOU GSh.

However, two days later, with amazement and indignation, I learned that he had been signed off to the GUNID (General Directorate of Research Activities).

"We have GUNID engaged in the war in Syria ?!"

I immediately contacted some of the chiefs and heard:

“Of course, his [report] to the GOU is necessary, just the GUNID was turned into an“ office for replies ”.

Disaster in Palmyra


On December 8, ISIS launched a surprise offensive against Palmyra, liberated in early 2016, by December 10, the Syrian army (and Russian advisers) retreated to T4 airbase, leaving the city.


The situation at the beginning of 2017 (after the loss of Palmyra).

Of course, this defeat was primarily due to the failure of our intelligence. And first of all, because it did not have all the necessary technical means to solve the tasks at hand.

The enemy, beaten from the air, managed to covertly concentrate and deliver a sudden powerful blow (such that there was a question about the possibility of losing not only Palmyra, but also T4), largely due to the extreme lack of long-range reconnaissance means in our grouping.

If the near zone was effectively "closed" (first of all, by the best tactical UAVs of the early 2010s "Orlan-10"), then the far zone - only occasionally and periodically could "look" by the "Outposts" (with a number of serious restrictions on the capabilities ).

Had the report hit the GOU GSh on December 6, the planes would not have had time to collect and transfer, of course. But the operators of the GOU could "stab":

“When did we have the latest intelligence data from the Rakka-Palmyra region?

Perhaps there would have been sorties of the "Outposts" that could have exposed the concentration of the enemy strike group?

American example


The impetus for the emergence of the idea of ​​creating such a system was a significant redistribution of funding for defense spending associated with the conduct of hostilities in Syria. Accordingly, there was an urgent need to search for such "instruments of war" that would have a moderate cost and high efficiency.

In 2016, the United States published a number of its documents on the costs of the operation against ISIS in Iraq, including with extremely interesting conclusions and estimates of the cost of operation. aviation technology. The diagram below illustrates this:

Well, we are not 41 years old, and the war is not on our territory

Interestingly, the cost of operating the UAV turned out to be very high, and the hero of the Vietnam War OV-10 turned out to be the record holder in economy.

The M-101 "Gzhel" turboprop aircraft, which we had in significant quantities (in storage), had an even lower cost of the flight.


Of course, this is far from the ideal aircraft choice for such tasks. And the main drawback is one engine.

In this regard, the question of using the L-410 light turboprop aircraft (with two engines) already available to the Ministry of Defense has been repeatedly raised.


However, for the conditions of Syria, this was by no means possible. The idea was to create a permanent "air reconnaissance umbrella" over key enemy areas. L-410 had insufficient flight altitude - in the zone of destruction of enemy air defense systems. That is, their shooting down in such conditions was only a matter of time.

M-101 "Gzhel", which had a pressurized cabin and a marching height of about 7 km, could in these conditions safely "hang" over the enemy, being outside the affected area. And this was key in these conditions.

Yes, I would like "the same, but twin-engine." But "Gzhel" has already been. And in the required quantity. They went into storage for a purely "bureaucratic reason." At the same time, the “similar military normative document” did not contain this “flight brake”.

The developer raised and refined the data on the operating time of all boards, on average they amounted to about 500 hours (that is, 5% of the resource). However, one of the most serious "bureaucratic obstacles" was the very possible procedure for transferring these aircraft to the Ministry of Defense.

At the same time, it is necessary to note and emphasize once again the fairly widespread use of light turboprop aircraft in the west for solving various military tasks.


Aircraft РР and РТР Guardrail (USA).


Launch of ATGM "Hellfire" from a light multipurpose aircraft "Cessna-Caravan", Iraq.

“The war is not on our territory. A promising system is planned "


On December 27, 2016, absolutely unexpectedly, the response to the report came:


Since the artist was indicated on its back, I immediately called him back.

The reasoning for not "was fine" (in quotes). Starting with the fact that "you need two engines and there is an L-410" (the fact that they will be shot down after a couple of sorties, the lieutenant colonel said it was "not interesting"), and ending with the fact that

"A promising unmanned system is planned."

Here it is on the diagram:


Photo: Victor Murakhovsky

Yes, “planned”.

But only the tasks need to be solved “now and yesterday” (not to mention the fact that there are very critical assessments of the appearance of this promising system). Its first set was purchased by the Ministry of Defense only in 2020.

And the most "beautiful" (in quotation marks) phrase of the objected lieutenant colonel (on "tasks need to be solved now") was:

"Well, we are not 41 years old, and the war is not on our territory" ...

That is, there is a war going on. There are those who solve problems with their blood and lives. And there are the "so-called military", for whom "the war (which the country is waging) ends with the end of the working day." (They also "planned" - "a promising system for a bright tomorrow").

Well, and the last example to the question of "the failure of aerial reconnaissance near Palmyra." As, so to speak, an epilogue:


Flight track of Tu-214R aircraft from Khmeimim to Chkalovsky 09.12.2016 (c) www.flightradar24.com / twitter.com/galandecZP

They "flew to the war" ("for a medal" and an entry in the personal file). “For reconnaissance” (in quotes) - with the transpoder turned on (that is, anyone, including the enemy, could observe the location of the aircraft in real-time on flightradar24.com).

"Well, we are not 41 years old, and the war is not on our territory" ...
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  1. Bez 310
    Bez 310 29 January 2021 15: 22
    +24
    I want to scream obscenities!
    1. Civil
      Civil 29 January 2021 15: 29
      +17
      Well, firstly, "I am the boss - you", and otherwise "that you will come out with your circle of model aircraft with attached cameras" ...
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 29 January 2021 15: 46
        +51
        Quote: Bez 310
        I want to scream obscenities!

        I would like to once again express my respect to such not indifferent, honest, real officers, such as Maxim Aleksandrovich Klimov. Patience and health.
        1. vlad.baryatinsky
          vlad.baryatinsky 30 January 2021 14: 13
          +3
          Hello !
          Quote: Crowe
          I would like to once again express my respect to such caring, honest, real officers

          For more of these.
          1. uralant
            uralant 1 February 2021 10: 43
            0
            Quote: vlad.baryatinsky
            For more of these.

            Where in stock, civilians. Knocking on closed doors?
    2. Tatyana
      Tatyana 29 January 2021 15: 54
      +26
      It is correct that Stalin, before the Second World War, cleared the USSR Armed Forces of traitors and slobs and brought discipline to the troops. And then all this did not immediately help in early 1941, but at least we won the Second World War.
    3. Hlavaty
      Hlavaty 29 January 2021 16: 45
      +18
      Do you just want to scream about Syria? Or about other regions too?
      war is not on our territory

      And here the fundamental question is inadvertently raised:

      What do people in the Russian Federation consider "not our" territory?

      Moreover, this applies not only to individual colonels, but also to officials, deputies, ordinary people. And finally to the rulers.
      Central Asia, Ukraine, Belarus - is this "not our" territory?
      And what about Transnistria, Abkhazia, LDNR?
      1. mark2
        mark2 29 January 2021 18: 01
        -15%
        Central Asia, Ukraine, Belarus - is this "not our" territory?
        And what about Transnistria, Abkhazia, LDNR?

        No, not ours. And I hope it won't. Tell me is everything okay in your family? All are provided for everyone, is the future clear and clear? Do you want to take care of raising other people's children, who recently stabbed their adoptive parents with knives?
        You are just a populist.
        If I could, I would put a bold minus for alternative giftedness.
        1. Hlavaty
          Hlavaty 29 January 2021 19: 30
          +12
          Judging by the way you quickly move on to insults, there are only two opinions for you: yours and the wrong one. smile

          Only there is no universal truth. Each level has its own truth.
          If you think like you, at the everyday level, then yes: if you yourself live well, then enjoy yourself and do not be distracted by all sorts of freaks.
          But if we talk at a higher level, at the state level, or even at the level of civilizations (as Putin put it), then many nuances emerge, on which the existence and development of the Russian Federation depends.

          A simple example: in the Russian Federation it is impossible to create a self-sufficient consumer market (as in China) - there is simply not enough people. A minimum of 250-300 million people are needed. Where to get them from?
          And without its own market there will be no own producers of goods. And what will happen now - walk around your house and see how many Russian goods you have and how many imported ones?

          And this is just one nuance. And there are many of them: resources, geography, climate, features of modern weapons, etc. etc.

          So do not throw insults. Better try to think at a higher level than household.
          1. eklmn
            eklmn 29 January 2021 20: 38
            -15%
            A minimum of 250-300 million people are needed. Where to get them from?

            And this is where the fun begins! Are you a man or not a man? Talk to your wife, give birth to a couple, throw them in mother-in-law to bring them up, and feed / dress them in 2 jobs in 3 shifts ... But the whole country should know about this - your family should become an example to follow!
            Another option - you and your wife are adopting / adopting children, but not Russian (their statistics have already counted), but foreign ones! Thus, increase the population of Russia. And themselves ... themselves at 2 jobs in 3 shifts to feed / clothe them ... But the whole country should know about this - your family should become an example to follow!
            Well, your option is to seize neighboring territories. But here a small problem arises - the attached peoples will not work in full force, they want to be dependent (Crimea, for example). And then .. you and your wife are at 2 jobs in 3 shifts to feed / clothe them ... But the whole country should know about it - your family should become an example to follow!
            And as you rightly pointed out:
            Quote: Hlavaty
            Better try to think at a higher level, those. head,than household.
            1. Hlavaty
              Hlavaty 29 January 2021 22: 16
              +11
              You still cannot tear yourself away from the everyday level. Alas...
            2. ANB
              ANB 29 January 2021 23: 24
              +12
              ... give birth to a couple of, throw them in mother-in-law to bring them up, and yourself at 2 jobs in 3 shifts to feed / dress them ...

              As it is categorical. I have three, waiting for the fourth. I work alone at one job in one shift. The wife brings up the children. AND?
              1. eklmn
                eklmn 30 January 2021 01: 58
                -4
                To answer your "And?" I need you to clarify the thesis of the "previous speaker". Hlavatu has a perfectly normal idea based on the money-commodity-money law of economics. Those. when there are many residents in the country and a huge percentage of workers, then they receive a salary for their work (money, pays taxes), spend money on purchases (goods produced in the country), and the manufacturer makes a profit (money, pays taxes). The circle is closed - the more money the people spend, the richer the country. It's that simple! Hlavatu cannot solve the problem of increasing the people of Russia (he himself admitted), he cannot increase the number of jobs (he himself admitted), he cannot increase salaries (he himself admitted), but he proposes to seize neighboring territories so that THEIR people on (or for ) it worked. So I offered him 3 ways out - let him choose.
                1. ANB
                  ANB 30 January 2021 09: 19
                  0
                  ... but he offers to seize neighboring territories so that THEIR people work for (or for) him. So I offered him 3 ways out - let him choose.

                  Well, here I support you.
                  I only found fault with the need to work 3 jobs with children. So everything is in our hands. :)
                2. Hlavaty
                  Hlavaty 30 January 2021 17: 31
                  +3
                  Quote: eklmn
                  capture neighboring territories so that THEIR people


                  "Neighboring territories", "THEIR people" ...

                  How little time it took to forget that we were one state and one people. A clear example of what results high-quality Western propaganda has achieved.
                  Moving further along this path, in another 20-30 years, you or your children will also talk about other territories that are still part of the Russian Federation. Well, what's wrong with that? For example, the Smolensk region is the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Astrakhan and Kazan are the Tatar khanates, the Kuban is the Khazar Kaganate, Siberia also has a bunch of potential owners, etc.
                  And in this way the Russian Federation will shrink to the Moscow principality.
                  As it was originally.

                  Only those who from the Moscow principality built the "Great Russia" reasoned quite differently from you.
                  1. nsm1
                    nsm1 1 February 2021 22: 46
                    -4
                    Quote: Hlavaty
                    Astrakhan and Kazan are Tatar khanates
                    The Ural Republic is alive in our hearts!
                    And the Ural francs are waiting in the wings.
              2. Hlavaty
                Hlavaty 30 January 2021 17: 18
                +2
                Quote: ANB
                I have three, waiting for the fourth.

                Class! good I take off my hat and envy white envy. hi
          2. Elturisto
            Elturisto 30 January 2021 11: 14
            +2
            Don't write nonsense about the size of the consumer market. The cost of an iPhone is no more than $ 100. Taking into account the gigantic scale of production. If the Russian Federation produced such a device, how much would it take in production, taking into account the smaller scale? Well, let it be 200, but in retail such a device costs 1000. Hence, the production cost is not a determining factor in pricing. there are no own goods because the real owner of the Russian Federation is foreign capital interested in turning the Russian Federation into a raw material appendage. Ask why imported air and auto components are not subject to VAT, and those produced in the Russian Federation are taxed at a rate of 20%. In addition, electricity in India is 1 RUB per kWh , and God-saved fatherland 5 ... With such a handicap, Russian manufacturers have no chance, no scale will help ... So you can address your wishes not only to your counterpart and to yourself :)
            1. Hlavaty
              Hlavaty 30 January 2021 17: 46
              +6
              Well, first of all, you don't have to measure everything with an iPhone. smile
              And secondly, before becoming a world leader, Apple first became a leader in the US domestic market, which had sufficient capacity for this.

              With insufficient market capacity, no odds will help local producers become leaders in the local market. They simply do not have enough resources to confront global players. Resources are not only money and materials, but also the entire infrastructure of the market, which includes the education system for training personnel, and research centers for creating new products and technologies ... and much more.

              Quote: victor50
              I wonder why Korea with a smaller population, Japan with the same can produce something, but it is not profitable for us?

              In the case of Korea and Japan, it is necessary to add to their population a very powerful diaspora that lives in developed countries and actively helps their historical homeland .. And also do not forget that both of these eastern countries are not democracies of the Western model, but in fact giant corporations , in which business and government work almost as one.
              Are you ready to work like the Japanese?
              Considering that the Japanese themselves often cannot withstand such stress, Japan is one of the countries with the highest suicide rate.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 30 January 2021 18: 00
                +1
                Quote: Hlavaty
                And also do not forget that both of these eastern countries are not Western-style democracies, but in fact giant corporations in which business and the state work practically as one.
                Are you ready to work like the Japanese?

                We have our own "Japanese" on our site - threshing on the keyboard day and night, tirelessly and sitting ... And nothing, they are alive ... wassat
                Quote: Hlavaty
                Given that the Japanese themselves often cannot withstand such stress, Japan is one of the countries with the highest suicide rate.

                Norway has the highest suicide rate among young people over the age of 21. The reason is banal - the state takes so really good care of the younger generation, giving them everything on a platter with a border, that young men and women, faced with the realities of an independent adult life, cannot stand such a contrast.
                But liberal media do not write about such things, therefore for many local "Japanese" both in Japan and in Norway it is a paradise on Earth.
              2. Elturisto
                Elturisto 30 January 2021 19: 27
                0
                You write a lot and everything is not on the case. In large markets and competition is high. What do you even mean, what is this term, insufficient market capacity, not enough for whom? You have a mess in your head. What is the relationship of scientific institutions to the market? The Chinese, producing the iPhone, what did they come up with? Zero, and they received orders for production because they offered a lower cost.
            2. Foxmara
              Foxmara 31 January 2021 07: 54
              +2
              You don't understand a little how the iPhone is made. We need chip production. It's never cheap. The larger the volume, the easier it will pay off. And all markets / niches are already occupied. It is possible to produce in a limited amount, but the cost will not be $ 100. Even the iPhone makers themselves didn't do it all. For example, we make sapphire lightly. Either most or all. It's not as simple as you write here
              1. Elturisto
                Elturisto 31 January 2021 10: 44
                -1
                Leave nonsense about making sapphire glasses for the iPhone already for the patriots. It was not about what the gadget consists of, but about the effect of the scale of production on the production cost. How do you even know about the cost price? Do you work in the Foxcon purchasing department? America of two-legged talking robots.https: //laowai.ru/fabriki-smerti-foxconn-gde-i-kakoj-cenoj-sobirayut-novye-iphone-x/
                1. nsm1
                  nsm1 1 February 2021 22: 48
                  -2
                  They do not have robots and screws for the iPhone.
          3. victor50
            victor50 30 January 2021 17: 19
            0
            Quote: Hlavaty
            A simple example: in the Russian Federation it is impossible to create a self-sufficient consumer market (as in China) - there is simply not enough people. A minimum of 250-300 million people are needed. Where to get them from?

            I wonder why Korea with a smaller population, Japan with the same can produce something, but it is not profitable for us? What else is unprofitable with us? I heard from some Muscovites about agriculture. Also? And live?
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 30 January 2021 18: 23
              +1
              Quote: victor50
              I wonder why Korea with a smaller population, Japan with the same can produce something, but it is not profitable for us?

              The concentration of the population and climatic conditions allowed them to avoid huge expenses for creating infrastructure and creating conditions for living at different times of the year. Ask where 80% of the Japanese population lives and you will simply be amazed - in three metropolitan areas, this is just for information. It is not hard to guess how this reduces many costs for the country, which, by the way, do not have nuclear weapons.
              1. victor50
                victor50 30 January 2021 21: 23
                -3
                Quote: ccsr
                climatic conditions allowed

                And what other excuses can you think of? Don't you think this is about a bad dancer? Let's concentrate the relevant cluster in the Far East and develop it there. It seems that the climatic conditions are similar. Or does the ocean not wash on four sides? laughing
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 31 January 2021 13: 27
                  +1
                  Quote: victor50
                  And what other excuses can you think of?

                  These are realities that you just don't want to see.

                  Quote: victor50
                  Let's focus the corresponding cluster in the Far East,

                  First, find 40 million people who want to go there, and then you will pretend to be Manilov.
                  Quote: victor50
                  It seems that the climatic conditions are similar. Or does the ocean not wash on four sides?

                  It will be cheaper in the south of the European part of Russia - even because of the logistics. Even in this case you have not learned to count, but you put forward senseless sentences. Where will you find human resources - for a start, at least think about it.
                  1. victor50
                    victor50 31 January 2021 20: 58
                    -1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    First, find 40 million people who want to go there, and then you will pretend to be Manilov.

                    If I find it, then I will definitely not look like Manilov! The only character you remember from the school curriculum? Sorry, but the tone of your answer does not imply a correct answer. It is not very profitable to launch spaceships here - far from the equator? Also, we will not? What else will we refuse to do under pretexts similar to the ones you are citing. Don't bother answering, I'm not interested in ... the smartest of the smartest! lol
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 1 February 2021 12: 52
                      0
                      Quote: victor50
                      If I find it, then I will definitely not look like Manilov!

                      All the same, you will remain with them - the infrastructure there is not ready to receive such a number of immigrants, and it will take more than one five-year plan to create it.
                      Quote: victor50
                      It is not very profitable to launch spaceships here - far from the equator? Also, we will not?

                      I didn’t tell you such nonsense.
                      Quote: victor50
                      Don't bother to answer, I'm not interested ...

                      But you are interesting to me from the point of view of observing how degraded our society has been over the past thirty years. So write - the picture becomes more and more colorful ...
                2. Ugochaves
                  Ugochaves 1 February 2021 07: 15
                  +1
                  Was this such a humor joke about the similarity of the climate in the Far East and Japan? Or do you live in a parallel reality? belay
          4. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 19: 40
            -2
            Quote: Hlavaty
            A simple example: in the Russian Federation it is impossible to create a self-sufficient consumer market (as in China) - there is simply not enough people. A minimum of 250-300 million people are needed. Where to get them from?


            And really, where? 300 million is not found in the entire former USSR.
            1. Hlavaty
              Hlavaty 30 January 2021 19: 58
              +2
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              And really, where? 300 million is not found in the entire former USSR.

              In the same place where all normal people take - by uniting with others.
              An example that has already set everyone on edge is Europe. Each of the European countries is very far from the size of a self-sufficient market, which is why they have united. And even some Eastern Europeans were pulled up. The result is 447 million people and the world's largest GDP. For all their internal problems, they are still perceived as something unified, in contrast to the CIS.

              It is significant that at about the same time the USSR was falling apart, and Europe was united smile

              There is often a feeling that the East Europeans have been dragged into the European Union so that they do not have the idea of ​​uniting with the Russian Federation.

              And the Russian Federation, in any case, will have to restore its influence on the territory of the former USSR and the Warsaw Pact. Create some kind of really working alliances or annex other territories with the population.
              Otherwise, they will be torn apart and no super-modern weapon will help.
              This is a matter of survival, not someone's whim.
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 02
                -3
                Quote: Hlavaty
                In the same place where all normal people take - by uniting with others.


                First, you used to say "our land" - it somehow looks a little like a union; secondly, do you really think that Moldova, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan will voluntarily want to unite with Russia?

                And most importantly, do you really think that 300 million people live there?

                Quote: Hlavaty
                And in any case, the Russian Federation will have to restore its influence on the territories of the former USSR and the Warsaw Pact.


                Yeah. Here the influence in Ukraine was restored so it was restored.
                1. Hlavaty
                  Hlavaty 30 January 2021 21: 05
                  -2
                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  you said "our land" - it somehow looks a little like unification

                  And I also said: "Create some kind of really working alliances or annex other territories with the population."

                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  do you really think that Moldova, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan will voluntarily want to unite with Russia?

                  If the policy of the Russian Federation changes, then everything can be. When they tell me that some kind of geopolitical process is impossible, I remember the summer of 1991. Then the majority of people in the USSR and in the West could not even imagine that the USSR would collapse. And by the end of the year, the USSR was gone. Even Western politicians were tuned into the fact that it would be necessary to bring down the USSR for many years to come!
                  But even this is not the "main thing".
                  All limitrophes are countries with "reduced social responsibility". Big players will take into account their wishes last.
                  The "main thing" is to stay among the big players!
                  And here "size matters" smile

                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  And most importantly, do you really think that 300 million people live there?

                  Now the population of the countries of the former Warsaw Pact is 470 million people. Enough, even if not everyone can be returned.

                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  Yeah. Here the influence in Ukraine was restored so it was restored.

                  I say: "If the policy of the Russian Federation changes."
                  The policy of the Russian Federation towards Ukraine was not just mediocre, but an exemplary failure. And the same mistakes are repeated with Belarus. If there was not a dad, but some slug like Yanukovych, then the Maidan would already be raging there. and ransacked Russian offices.
                  Sometimes the policy of the Russian Federation simply repels even the pro-Russian-minded population of other countries. How much help did those people in Ukraine receive, who in 2014 marched in columns with Russian flags throughout eastern Ukraine? Yes, no. RF just pretended not to see them. And many paid for it with health and even life. What do they think about the RF now?
                  1. The eye of the crying
                    The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 21: 14
                    -2
                    Quote: Hlavaty
                    you said "our land" - it somehow looks a little like unification

                    And I also said: "Create some kind of really working alliances or annex other territories with the population."


                    So you contradict yourself. Now you have "our territory", then "create unions".

                    Quote: Hlavaty
                    Now the population of the countries of the former Warsaw Pact is 470 million people.


                    Well, for example, Poland was a member of the Warsaw Pact. Do you really think that it will unite with Russia, no matter what policy Russia pursues? laughing The same is true for the rest of Eastern Europe. Yes, in general, and for Ukraine.

                    Quote: Hlavaty
                    The Russian policy towards Ukraine was not just mediocre, but an exemplary failure, and the same mistakes are repeated with Belarus.


                    I completely agree. But I have completely different reasons for considering politics a failure. laughing
                    1. Hlavaty
                      Hlavaty 30 January 2021 22: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: Eye of the Crying
                      So you contradict yourself. Now you have "our territory", then "create unions".

                      I do not contradict myself, but I make it clear that there is not one, but many more tools in politics. Somewhere there may be unions, somewhere the return of territories, somewhere the joining of new ones, and somewhere else something. There are many ways to achieve the result.

                      Quote: Eye of the Crying
                      Well, for example, Poland was a member of the Warsaw Pact. Do you really think that it will unite with Russia, no matter what policy Russia pursues?

                      Poland has already been divided three times, while destroying it as a state. Who said it couldn't happen again?
                      1. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 22: 14
                        -3
                        Quote: Hlavaty
                        I do not contradict myself, but I make it clear that there is not one, but much more tools in politics.


                        Sure. For example, Russia used the "return of territories" tool in Ukraine. Now the instrument "union" in Ukraine cannot be used. You can, of course, try the "conquest" tool. But, on the other hand, I remember the war with Chechnya, in which only 500 thousand people live. For reference: in Ukraine - about 40 million (80 times more).

                        Quote: Hlavaty
                        Poland has already been divided three times, while destroying it as a state. Who said it couldn't happen again?


                        Do you still remember the Mongol-Tatar yoke laughing
                      2. Hlavaty
                        Hlavaty 30 January 2021 22: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        For example, Russia used the "return of territories" tool in Ukraine.

                        You also need to know how to use the tool. And also have enough brains and courage to use the tool correctly.
                        It is possible that the Russian Federation in the case of Ukraine applied this tool incorrectly. Either they were frightened, or they were in a hurry (Putin said that they made decisions on Crimea "off the bat," that is, without a prepared plan in advance).

                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Do you still remember the Mongol-Tatar yoke

                        The Mongol-Tatar yoke can also be used in propaganda. What's the difference, what nonsense TV and the Internet will pour into your ears. The main thing is the result. The Ukrainians were told that they and the Russians are different peoples. Quite a lot of people have believed in this and are now arguing in their kitchens or fighting with the "aggressor". For these people, the goal of Western propaganda has been achieved.
                      3. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 22: 37
                        -2
                        Quote: Hlavaty
                        It is possible that the Russian Federation in the case of Ukraine applied this tool incorrectly.


                        Yes. And, worse, the consequences are irreversible for the foreseeable future.

                        Quote: Hlavaty
                        What's the difference, what nonsense TV and the Internet will pour into your ears.


                        But you specifically spoke about the partition of Poland, not television propaganda.
                      4. Hlavaty
                        Hlavaty 30 January 2021 22: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        But you specifically spoke about the partition of Poland, not television propaganda.

                        I, as a private person, have the freedom to discuss a variety of options with you.
                        Television propaganda does not have such freedom, but is obliged to promote the political decisions of the country's leadership. There has never been such a decision on the partition of Poland. smile
          5. Foxmara
            Foxmara 31 January 2021 09: 37
            +1
            What do you think that Ukraine so wanted in the EU that it arranged the Maidan ?? It was the EU that wanted the market, but no one asked Ukraine
  2. boni592807
    boni592807 29 January 2021 21: 20
    0
    mark2 (Alexander),, today, 18:01, NEW -
    Central Asia, Ukraine, Belarus - is this "not our" territory? And what about Transnistria, Abkhazia, LDNR?
    No, not ours. And I hope it won't.

    mark2 (Alexander), "+" with a slight correction for east and south U "krainu (Novorossiya and Little Russia) +, Pridnestrovie, Belarus. It is not worth scattering YOUR and YOUR good." hi

    Rest - atwe recall the decline of the USSR 80-90s and see in real time the reports of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (criminal) and the FSB (ter-m), further - salaries, pensions, unemployed and dumping "compatriots - gasterb) creating places" only for their own ", their business - including with supplies from Afgan, places in schools and farmsteads.
    Somehow Trump from the Americans was more pragmatic, and it would not hurt to increase security what
    tolerant Europe and those begin to "itch".
    And then, EZHE-whether CHE and "Brandenburg-800" am , as in 1941, potential "partners" will not need it. Especially if you count how much of the above mentioned and where, with already a "compatriot" passport, THIS is with only official Russians (from native Russians) for 50 ml. the cordon was left from the USSR. And there are 2 more waves of emigrants, too. . And how many other "compatriots" in total incl. unaccounted for and "offended" from the USSR. from 10 ml and ...
    Of course, "Armata" and "Kolibr", neverything in the end is in the human factor and In the correctness of previously made decisions, and not at the moment of "H" (roast cock). Both "-" and "+"!
    About an example Hlavaty (Vladimir Glavaty), Today, 19:30, NEW that: in the Russian Federation it is impossible to create a self-sufficient consumer market (as in China) - there is simply not enough people.then, neither the USA, nor the USSR, nor modern China, each in their own way, solve and solve this problem, not to the detriment of YOUR country and its indigenous citizens. Example of a higher level than "someone's" liberal - everyday. I won't specify the author for you, you, as an expert, know. "... We have neither eternal allies, nor permanent enemies, but our interests are constant and eternal, and it is our duty to protect them ..."
    I understand that the level of the "flight of scientists" from the HSE is "higher" than the gaping peaks of the REAL ECONOMY. But there is still - Glazyev, Krichevsky, Delyagin and others. There would be an opportunity to fix these gaping peaks of the economy, and the rest ... to have time "... the main thing is to start ..." !!! wink
    Yours faithfully, ...[ hi
  3. Alex Nevs
    Alex Nevs 30 January 2021 15: 11
    +1
    And yours is when the mattress covers are rummaging around the nuclear facilities of the Russian Federation. A little more and feed the Weisk Nats. EBNa hotzza?
  4. uralant
    uralant 1 February 2021 10: 50
    +2
    Quote: mark2
    If I could, I would put a bold minus for alternative giftedness.

    Kemsk parish? Yes, let them take it, it's unseen!
    This is your EBNashkovaya talent. Do you think the Moscow volost will remain and heal the godfather to the king?
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 29 January 2021 19: 33
    +2
    Quote: Hlavaty
    only about Syria want to scream obscenities?

    Not only...
    I don't even know what it is about
    speak calmly, without swearing.
    1. Elturisto
      Elturisto 30 January 2021 11: 16
      0
      Of course, it's impossible without an obscenity and about Syria, the war is going on for Timchenko's Syrian phosphates :)
      1. Hlavaty
        Hlavaty 30 January 2021 17: 49
        0
        Well, there also, Gazprom is interested in slowing down the gas pipeline, which stretches to the Mediterranean Sea and further to Europe.
        1. Elturisto
          Elturisto 30 January 2021 19: 19
          -1
          And if so, why should the citizens of the Russian Federation try Gazprom?
          1. Foxmara
            Foxmara 31 January 2021 13: 58
            +2
            Well if you don't care, why ask at all? The answers have been given for several years now - why. From the point of view of the army, we tested all new weapons, the entire officer corps went through real hostilities, the headquarters worked out an advertising campaign for weapons, retained a military base in the Mediterranean, got another one, pushed the threat of terrorism away from our borders, gained greater international weight. and of course Gazprom has its own interests, although if Syria had not been about the threat of destruction, it would not have been allowed there anyway. Is it really hard for you to google all this ??
            1. Elturisto
              Elturisto 31 January 2021 14: 01
              -2
              I especially liked the movement of terrorism from its borders :) The terrorists in Syria are supplied to the United States, Israel and Turkey :) Where have they been moved? You, I see, have already reported :). Besides, who are we?
  • Mantykora
    Mantykora 4 February 2021 15: 29
    -1
    Judging by the minuses to your comment, a third no longer considers the territory of the USSR, except for the Russian Federation, "ours" ... Many do not realize that the territory of Ukraine is occupied (analogy with 1942, when the enemy is striving for Stalingrad). On the contrary, they shout: "they themselves must rise up" (the partisans themselves against the Wehrmacht, even with bare hands and without preparation, they will fight a lot, uh-huh), "Maidanis - shake things up" (that the people made a Maidan - fairy tales for shkolota) and the like, it can be long continue...
    Not only in Ukraine there are a lot of detainees, there are also a lot of them in Russia ... And something is becoming more and more of them ...
  • svp67
    svp67 29 January 2021 15: 26
    +5
    In this case, it would be possible to use AIRIZHABLES, that's what really would be "cheap and cheerful"
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 29 January 2021 15: 47
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      In this case, it would be possible to use AIRIZHABLES, that's what really would be "cheap and cheerful"


      I considered this option in the article: The revival of airships. Airships as an important part of the armed forces of the XXI century

      https://topwar.ru/157696-vozrozhdenie-dirizhablej-dirizhabli-kak-vazhnaja-chast-vooruzhennyh-sil-xxi-veka.html

      Actually, the message is the same - minimizing the cost of a flight hour.
      + if it is possible to place small UAVs on the airship, you can always keep the enemy in suspense with the possibility of a sudden strike - so that they are afraid to stick their nose out into the street.
    2. Reviews
      Reviews 29 January 2021 16: 01
      +7
      Quote: svp67
      In this case, it would be possible to use AIRIZHABLES, that's what really would be "cheap and cheerful"

      The airship is far from cheap. But tethered balloons will not look far, even from a height of 7-8 km. For example, from a height of 8 km, the radio horizon will be 300 kilometers away.
      1. svp67
        svp67 29 January 2021 16: 05
        +2
        Quote: Avis
        The airship is far from cheap.

        And nevertheless, it would be cheaper than a few, even light-engine aircraft, and would have the ability to keep watch around the clock, not to mention the ability to equip it with equipment and the living conditions of the crew
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 29 January 2021 16: 14
          +5
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: Avis
          The airship is far from cheap.

          And nevertheless, it would be cheaper than a few, even light-engine aircraft

          Not. First, due to the lack of even a minimal series. Secondly, because of the specific infrastructure that almost no one else in the world has. In Syria, and even more so, no. Our MO - too; even in the form of stationary objects, not to mention mobile.
          would have the opportunity to keep watch around the clock, not to mention the possibility of equipping it with equipment and the living conditions of the crew

          An airship capable of at least a daily flight does not exist in the Russian Federation even as a project. Our largest airship, Au-30, has an autonomy of 12 hours and does not have the slightest conditions for resting the crew and places for placing any serious equipment. And his speed is 100 km / h - how long should he fly to the patrol area? And his ceiling is ... very bad. Any bespectacled person without glasses can detect it visually, and you can shoot it down from an elementary DShK (will it reach 1 ... 1,5 km?).
          1. svp67
            svp67 29 January 2021 16: 46
            0
            Quote: Avis
            An airship capable of at least a daily flight does not exist in the Russian Federation even as a project.

            Yes, since the 90s at the Termoplan Design Bureau.
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 29 January 2021 16: 52
              +5
              Quote: svp67
              Quote: Avis
              An airship capable of at least a daily flight does not exist in the Russian Federation even as a project.

              Yes, since the 90s at the Termoplan Design Bureau.

              Oh, I don’t need the Thermoplane. :) The guys are not bad, but they are still spotters. Eternal "manilovs". :) Well, maybe they have a project, but there is a long distance from the project to the project, not to mention before being put into operation. Even the reconnaissance "Gzhel" is more real.
      2. Tavrik
        Tavrik 30 January 2021 16: 57
        +1
        It will not work ... The weight of the cable and the weight of the power cable will be such that there will be nothing left for the payload. Without a power cable, you will have to periodically drain it to replace the batteries, which is also not fast.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 30 January 2021 18: 00
          0
          Quote: Tavrik
          Will not work...

          What won't work?
          1. Tavrik
            Tavrik 1 February 2021 13: 47
            0
            You will not be able to use a balloon hanging at an altitude of 5-8 km. For the above reasons.
  • Asad
    Asad 29 January 2021 15: 30
    +9
    It's good that YET no one is supplying sensible air defense to the Basmachs!
  • yehat2
    yehat2 29 January 2021 15: 33
    +7
    The issues of creating an automated unmanned system were raised in the USSR back in the late 70s
    There were even experimental tests of elements of this system - robotic bombers.
    the topic is secret - I know about it only from eyewitnesses, it just surprises me that in the article the topic of flight organization is presented as a recent one.
    Since ww2, the same USA has been paying great attention to various air patrol projects. From traditional reconnaissance vehicles to exotic in the form of blimps, blackbirds, U-2s, Orion patrol aircraft, etc. In the USSR, during the war, there were entire air regiments engaged only in reconnaissance. So all this topic did not arise recently, but only moves to a new level. And in our country, unfortunately, very little attention is paid to the auxiliary forces.
  • Sayan
    Sayan 29 January 2021 15: 42
    -26%
    Since the author is so smart - reasonable, why is he not on the General Staff?)))) - not an article, but a libel.
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 29 January 2021 16: 18
      +2
      Quote: Sayan
      not an article, but a libel.

      Who exactly?
      1. Sayan
        Sayan 29 January 2021 17: 31
        -7
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Quote: Sayan
        not an article, but a libel.

        Who exactly?

        I always treat your comments positively, and in squabbles I always support you with pluses, but now I do not understand your question - everything is written in the text
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 29 January 2021 17: 35
          0
          Quote: Sayan
          and in skirmishes I always support you with pluses,

          So I never minus you. But I really didn't understand who exactly the libel hi
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 29 January 2021 19: 25
      -9
      Quote: Sayan
      Since the author is so smart - reasonable, why is he not on the General Staff?)))) - not an article, but a libel.

      I think that this is not a libel, but another illiterate set of claims, a person who has no idea what military equipment is, and even more so if the question concerns aircraft, where pilots risk their lives. I thought that Klimov specializes in naval subjects, but he turns out to be a multi-station operator, he has already begun to decide how best to use reconnaissance equipment, and even on a civilian aircraft.
      In general, I read a lot of different nonsense from this author, but here he clearly surpassed himself. To begin with, the GOU GSH is not engaged in reconnaissance equipment at all, because this is done either by the reconnaissance of the Aerospace Forces, or the OSN brigades (6th Directorate of the GRU), which are armed with Il-20M reconnaissance aircraft.
      But the point is not even this, but the fact that the creation of any military equipment and weapons must necessarily be carried out according to the standards of military GOSTs, and no one will allow changes in this procedure, not because of retrogrades, but because there may be casualties during the operation of such weapons ... Without going into details, I just note that even e-shielding. circuits of a single-engine civil aircraft may not match the level of interference for the flawless operation of sensitive radio reconnaissance equipment. And although communication equipment can work normally in such conditions, but the receiving devices of radio intelligence can work incorrectly. And this is just one small aspect, and there are still a lot of problems even with the alignment of the aircraft when placing this equipment and related antennas and devices, operator workplaces, etc.
      I will not say anything more, but I will note that in Afghanistan we have already encountered a situation when it was necessary to urgently change to new RTR equipment in a reconnaissance aircraft, and that was a problem, because the pilots themselves feared that factory tests were not carried out ... And the fears were justified - no one knew how the non-standard equipment would behave and whether this would lead to the death of the plane and the crew in some critical situation.
      But for Klimov, these are such trifles that he will not bother with this, it is not for him to fly this plane and not be responsible for his crew. Well, his initiative looks completely ridiculous against the background of the fact that the Soviet Army had squadrons of unmanned aircraft of Tu-143 reconnaissance aircraft and even then methods of their use in combat conditions were worked out. So the "discovery of America" ​​did not take place - I think there are specialists in the VKS and GRU General Staff who are able to understand what is needed in Syria to conduct intelligence. And the downed Il-20M suggests that they worked there very seriously, since this plane was there.
      In general, paper will endure everything for Klimov. It is a pity that many ignorant people will believe in what he expresses, although by and large it smacks of an unhealthy perception of reality.
      1. rusboris
        rusboris 30 January 2021 17: 36
        0
        The author speaks of the technique only as options. Here the parquet officers are a reality, and in the near future, a bloody reality for Russia. My personal conversation with an officer of no small position, revolved around "why the heck do we generally fight in foreign territories, and so everything is fine." The "mold of pacifism" among the officers and the Moscow headquarters corridors has reached a dangerous level. With their brains fattened on state grub, they will plunge Russia into a new "Finnish company". There, too, was foreign territory. But the political situation forced them to fight. The results of the victory for the USSR were stunningly bloody. The commanders ditched our battalions and regiments not out of malice, but out of illiteracy. And "today" Palmyra for some reason had to be assaulted 2 times. The first reason is the cerebral relaxation of the parquet officers. The second reason is the lack of special (cheap) technology for low-intensity warfare. This is what the author of the article is talking about. And in response to him "clever men" about cameras and wiring shielding say. The cases of such "clever men" are called the "Italian strike"; it is well treated by clearing the headquarters of parquet officers. We will have General Lebed 2 as our Minister of Defense. Then the "Italian strike" will be called sabotage and will be treated by dismissal from the army without the right to wear a uniform and without a pension. Amen.
        The photo shows the results of an ill-prepared war on a foreign territory. Karelian Isthmus 1939.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 30 January 2021 18: 14
          -2
          Quote: rusboris
          And "today" Palmyra had to be assaulted 2 times for some reason.

          Yes, for a political reason, and not because the military does not know how to fight. Before you carry on nonsense about 1939, for a start, at least study what is in service with us now. And if you want to fight hard, no one bothers to go to serve in the Russian army, or at worst, enlist in a PMC. Only you will never do this - from the couch you are a great strategist, but as soon as it touches the case, so "nema bad".
          Quote: rusboris
          My personal conversation with an officer of no small position, revolved around "why the heck do we generally fight on foreign territories, and so everything is fine."

          It is immediately evident that the person is not stupid, and apparently managed to find out how much a pound is dashing.
          Quote: rusboris
          The commanders ditched our battalions and regiments not out of malice, but out of illiteracy.

          Well, since you are literate, what prevents you from going to serve in the army? Send your son to begin with if you yourself are afraid.
          Quote: rusboris
          This is what the author of the article is talking about. And in response to him, "clever men" about cameras and wiring shielding say.

          So they say it is those who know, and not those who have no ear or snout in this - like you, for example.
          1. rusboris
            rusboris 31 January 2021 18: 18
            -2
            You are an experienced troll colleague, which does not in the least drop your authority as an expert. This is in response to your personal attacks. In essence, I will note the following. First-hand information was available to me in 1939, i.e. direct participants in the war. One platoon commander of the second regiment. I rely on their expert opinion also on primary sources. Transcript. "Meeting at the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of the commanding staff to collect experience of military operations against Finland" April 14-17, 1940. Zinoviev I. D. "Fight surrounded". - Moscow: Military Publishing, 1941. This is about the readiness of our equipment and our officers to fight on foreign territory in a low-intensity war. It is worth noting that the efforts of the chief of general staff in increasing readiness for such a war are noticeable. However, the notorious "Italian strike" of parquet officers - pacifists is a great slowdown in this process. Perhaps not out of malice, but from limited thinking. Maxim Aleksandrovich Klimov is making efforts to help such people. And I am moderately burdened by military scientific work and experience in military affairs, an expert, I support him. I remind you, dear ccsr, that history does not teach anyone, but it punishes negligent students to whom you relate strictly.
            1. rusboris
              rusboris 31 January 2021 18: 34
              0
              Finnish company expert in 1939.

              Ivan Dmitrievich Zinoviev (January 17, 1905 - 1942) - Soviet officer, participant in the Soviet-Finnish and World War II, Hero of the Soviet Union (April 26, 1940). Colonel (1941).
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 1 February 2021 12: 46
              -1
              Quote: rusboris
              For 1939, first-hand information was available to me, i.e. direct participants in the war. One platoon commander of the second regiment.

              I won't talk about the level of the platoon commander, but the level of the regiment commander, of course, speaks volumes, and therefore where can one get acquainted with his PERSONAL opinion in official documents? Because conversations without documentary confirmation can not always be accurate - people's memory sometimes fails, and the one who listens can distort everything himself, not understanding what was being discussed. As an experienced troll, you should know this.
              Quote: rusboris
              Transcript. "Meeting at the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of the commanding staff to collect experience of military operations against Finland" April 14-17, 1940.

              And what did you find there that led to a radical reform in the Red Army?
              Here is the end of the first day:
              OBORIN. Although I am a bad scout, but if I had been given a business trip there, I would have spotted everything (laughter). As a result, due to lack of intelligence, we have shed a lot of unnecessary blood.
              Now about preparation and discipline. The command staff must be trained in the school. Here we have liberalism and democracy. It is necessary to squeeze the commander so that all the water comes out of him, then there will be a sense from him, but we come from the school with rounded bellies, the commanders are poorly trained.
              About the junior commander. The junior commander is the basis of physical fitness. Not everyone is engaged in physical training. She was in the old army, I was trained in the training team so that I am still doing physical training (laughter). Don't look that I have a tummy.
              When I come to the resort, do a squat, the doctor says: you are doing the squat correctly, you are probably an athlete. But for us nothing comes out of this case. I was in command of the school for four years, and I decided to prepare junior commanders properly. I remembered how I was taught in the old army. He began to teach his commanders. They started calling me. They summon the political department and say that you torture people, and I have an order from the People's Commissar, good party experience, since 1917 in the army, a worker, so I don't give up. But another would not have done this, I decided, since the political department intervened, I will not do this anymore. I continued to study. Commissions began to come to me.
              MECHLIS. What school was it in and what year?
              OBORIN. It was in Dnepropetrovsk in 1929. And now this business continues. What are they doing? They come with a commission in the mornings, I have 40 minutes of exercise, 25 minutes without rest running, I myself ran in front, you can't take me. In the morning a doctor comes, a representative from the political department, they saw that I myself was running, they left.
              This is what I say, for example. We need to put an end to this liberalism, to this bureaucracy and to demand from the commander, to give him full opportunity so that no threat rises above him. Of course, if he misbehaves, we will be able to put him in his place.
              Here is the junior commander. We need a junior commander like the old fireworks in the artillery and in the infantry too. So you need to work out and change the name to it.
              STALIN. How?
              OBORIN. In the tsarist army, a fireworks was called, so to call it.
              STALIN. And in the infantry?
              OBORIN. Feldwebel, foreman. You can also name the sergeant-major. We have this word worn out. And I must say, when I was a foreman, I remembered how Nikita Nikitovich Tolstoy did, and I did the same. And it worked out well for me.
              STALIN. Should the rank of general be restored?
              OBORIN. To maintain the authority of our Red Army and the great country, I believe that it is necessary to introduce a general's rank. Why are we worse than others?
              One more question. They talked about decryption here. This really hurt me when Comrade. Khrenov spoke. I ask why you, comrade. Fuck, do you need decryption? Is decryption bad? Who was in charge of this case? This is an artillery case. Here comrade. Parsegov said that reinforcement was needed. I need to have two squadrons. Then fighters are needed for cover. And it turns out ridiculously: I ask that they give fighters for cover. My "R-5" flies to them and says - let's fly, and he looks what the weather is - flying or not. Then they flew, he spun around and said: I'll go home. And "R-5" too.
              STALIN. Insubordination?
              OBORIN. Yes, you have to subdue. You also need equipment that does the shooting. When the shooting is done, then I hand it over to the corps commander, a clear picture is obtained and I know what to do. And this was poorly delivered here. In order to take the target, it was difficult to establish, the whole bagpipe turned out. It is necessary to have aviation, apparatus and decryption in the corps. We did the decryption ourselves, we have decryptors. That's all.

              And that everything appeared in the corps immediately after the meeting and was already in 1941? Well, they also restored the ranks of general - this is important, but this did not improve the combat readiness of the troops.
              An ordinary meeting to sum up the results of the Finnish war at a high level, which in fact did not in any way affect the readiness of the spacecraft for an attack by the Germans - that was the whole result of this meeting. Some stories about a sanatorium and physical training at a meeting of a strategic level are generally the limit of unprofessionalism, although given the fact that the audience was motley, it might have been better.
              Quote: rusboris
              It is worth noting that the efforts of the chief of the general staff in increasing the readiness for such a war are noticeable.

              And nothing that he was replaced in January 1941?
              Quote: rusboris
              However, the notorious "Italian strike" of parquet officers - pacifists is a great slowdown in this process.

              You are simply delusional - there is no such thing in the armed forces, and the fool who told you this is either a layman in military affairs or a provocateur.
              Quote: rusboris
              Maxim Aleksandrovich Klimov is making efforts to help such people.

              He also missed space - there only his help is not enough. You yourself will entrust your treatment to such a "doctor" as Klimov, or turn to an ordinary therapist of a district clinic who has been treating people all his life. It's the same with the army - an ophthalmologist cannot be a good proctologist - he looks people in the eyes, and not in theirs. And Klimov promises to heal the fleet, aviation, now the Strategic Missile Forces still remain - probably they will try to cure them too ...

              Quote: rusboris
              I remind you, dear ccsr, that history does not teach anyone, but it punishes negligent students to whom you relate strictly.

              This is all verbiage, and has nothing to do with that nonsense about Klimov's civil aircraft. By the way, besides me, several other military professionals ridiculed his stupid venture.
              1. rusboris
                rusboris 1 February 2021 19: 09
                -1
                Dear ccsr / It's a shame that in the USSR and during the last peaceful year, they could not do the priority measures. Will they have time in Russia? Judging by the discussion about the nature of modern war, they will not be in time. Academics and generals broke their spears, in disputes for what type of war to prepare. Starting from the fantastic "hyper, piper" "many medium wars" and ending with front-line operations of the "Kursk Bulge" type.
                I ask my esteemed colleagues to refer to the authoritative primary sources, to which I rank: Martin van Creveld with his work "Transformation of War"; A.I. Podberezkina, M.V. Aleksandrova with the monograph "Strategic Forecasting and Planning of Foreign and Defense Policy". These authors, without denying Karl von Clausewitz, built a coherent scientific theory based on two types of wars. Interstate war and low intensity war.
                One of the authoritative military experts K. V. Sivkov notes that Russia is better prepared for an interstate war than for a low-intensity war. It's hard to disagree with him. We will discuss this topic in relation to the branches of the army of the Russian Federation.
                In my opinion, the most intense bifurcation is now being experienced by the air defense of the ground forces and the navy. This is facilitated by new challenges in their area of ​​responsibility. For example, the emergence of middle and heavy class UAVs has undermined the unquestioning faith in the omnipotence of anti-aircraft missile systems. And the introduction of hypersonic anti-ship missiles into service has nullified the dominance of attack aircraft carrier groups. Let us analyze the effectiveness of air defense operations of ground forces in a low-intensity war. According to military experts and practitioners, it is time to supplement anti-aircraft missile systems with large-caliber artillery from 57 mm and larger. The advent of programmable shells saved anti-aircraft artillery from the mass shooting of ammunition "somewhere in the direction of the target." Now a burst of classic three shots is enough to hit any target. Please note that radar support for artillery fire is not inferior to missile systems. It is known that the economy of low intensity war is one of the main factors for achieving the goals of war. Let's start with the economy.
                Battery technology, large-caliber anti-aircraft artillery, with comparable efficiency for a UAV, with an air defense system battery, costs 10-20 times cheaper. Ten programmable artillery shells for hitting a single target cost 30 times cheaper than an anti-aircraft missile of the same effective range. A natural question arises. Where are these guns? "Derivation-Air Defense" is being tested in Russia at a snail's pace. There is absolutely no decent anti-aircraft artillery in NATO countries either. Problem diagnosis, as old as the world. These are the design bureaus of air defense missile systems, bronze in their grandeur, and successful managers who have joined them, who have their own not small gesheft. "To whom the war, and to whom the mother is dear."
                The classic example for analysis is the Vietnam War. There, most of the aircraft were shot down by anti-aircraft artillery. Approximately 3227 high quality American jet birds. The impressive figure is not true. The modern example is Syria. We do not know how many Shells and Thors missiles were spent there. But, about 80 UAVs of model aircraft type, totaling 11 million rubles, were shot down by them.
                Analogous calculations suggest that the spent rockets cost more than 300 million rubles.
                For the lack of modern combat experience, we apply theoretical calculations to artillery. If we plan to spend ten programmable shells on a target. This means that the destruction of 80 UAVs will cost the treasury not 300 million rubles, but 5 million rubles. This is the economy of a low-intensity war Again, I turn to the theme of the parquet officers - pacifists. It is only through their fault that a division of 57 mm anti-aircraft guns on wheeled carriages does not stand in combat trials in Syria. For four years we have been waiting for the self-propelled Derivation, which may not work. Result. Troops in Syria continue to burn hundreds of millions of rubles on anti-aircraft missiles and squirm in exercises with Turkish "barracks". “Well, we are not 41 years old, and the war is not on our territory” ...
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 1 February 2021 19: 47
                  -1
                  Quote: rusboris
                  Will they have time in Russia? Judging by the discussion about the nature of modern war, they will not be in time.

                  Don't worry - this process is automated, and the complete destruction of our opponents can take place without any preparation. This has been established since Soviet times, so the main thing is the team.

                  Quote: rusboris
                  Academics and generals broke their spears, in disputes for what type of war to prepare.

                  No one has broken any copies for a long time - compare the percentage reduction of different types and types of troops, and you will understand that the stake was made on strategic nuclear forces, and everything else is secondary, according to the residual principle.
                  Quote: rusboris
                  These authors, without denying Karl von Clausewitz, built a coherent scientific theory based on two types of wars. Interstate war and low intensity war.

                  That's why we destroyed the USSR - we believed in all sorts of nonsense, and our commanders no longer wanted to understand that redundancy of weapons ruins the economy. So the USSR lost ...

                  Quote: rusboris
                  One of the authoritative military experts K. V. Sivkov notes that Russia is better prepared for an interstate war than for a low-intensity war.

                  I sometimes listen to him, and I notice that his opinion is sometimes politicized and does not correspond to the current realities, even from the point of view of our economic opportunities.

                  Quote: rusboris
                  Let us analyze the effectiveness of air defense operations of ground forces in a low-intensity war.

                  Who, according to this scenario, will fight with us - well, name at least one serious enemy, where will we cover our troops in the traditional form?

                  Quote: rusboris
                  Battery technology, large-caliber anti-aircraft artillery, with comparable efficiency for a UAV, with an air defense system battery, costs 10-20 times cheaper. Ten programmable artillery shells for hitting a single target cost 30 times cheaper than an anti-aircraft missile of the same effective range. A natural question arises. Where are these guns? "Derivation-Air Defense" is being tested in Russia at a snail's pace.

                  All this should concern us only from the point of view of sales of our weapons abroad. Everything else is from the evil one.
                  Quote: rusboris
                  The classic example for analysis is the Vietnam War.

                  For us, this is no longer a classic one, and is not at all suitable for analysis, due to the fact that our army is no longer Soviet, not to mention weapons. If you really want to compare with something, then it is better with the war in Yugoslavia - this is a typical example of a new type of war, for which we are now preparing our troops. Testing in Syria has shown that we will no longer fight in large numbers - only due to our technological superiority, we will destroy our opponents if we cannot use nuclear weapons.
                  Quote: rusboris
                  Again, I turn to the theme of the parquet officers - pacifists.

                  I wonder where you saw them, well, at least at what time - tell me.
                  Quote: rusboris
                  Troops in Syria continue to burn hundreds of millions of rubles on anti-aircraft missiles and wrestle with Turkish "barracks" in exercises.

                  The main thing is that our people do not die, and we find money, since we keep troops there. To be honest, I do not understand your hope for 57 mm anti-aircraft systems on wheels - who will indicate the targets to them, and their firing range is limited. Why is all this fencing?
                  1. rusboris
                    rusboris 1 February 2021 20: 36
                    0
                    Awful inconsistency ccrr. Excessive weapons destroyed the USSR and immediately
                    Quote: ccsr
                    and we find money
                    ... Low-intensity war should be a profitable business for Russia. The equipment should be at a favorable price, hazardous specialties should be replaced by specialists from "Kyrgyzstan". Armament must have a competitive price for Russia's “allies”. Treat science, money and blood with respect and you will have ccsr, victory in a small victorious war. No need to troll your colleagues for ideas that you don't understand. Educate yourself and you will be happy.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 2 February 2021 12: 25
                      -1
                      Quote: rusboris
                      Awful inconsistency ccrr. Excessive weapons destroyed the USSR and immediately
                      Quote: ccsr
                      and we find money

                      I see no contradiction - keeping more than 4 million under arms in the USSR and a small contingent in Syria now, these are two big differences. Moreover, you just do not know that during the Soviet era there were two decent objects of the Ministry of Defense in Syria - a naval base and a pear expedition. So count what it cost even then.
                      Quote: rusboris
                      Treat science, money and blood with respect and you will have ccsr, victory in a small victorious war.

                      Who do you personally dream of fighting victoriously in a small war - well, at least designate the region in order to understand what we must be prepared for. General reasoning is not accepted - only specifics.
                      Quote: rusboris
                      No need to troll your colleagues for ideas that you don't understand.

                      I do not perceive abstract, or rather delusional ideas, understanding their stupidity. So I can troll them, for prevention.
                      Quote: rusboris
                      Educate yourself and you will be happy.

                      Yes, I seem to have been doing this professionally, but you cannot spend on the skill, as they say among our people. Self-education mistakes are clearly visible in your argumentation.
  • Snail N9
    Snail N9 29 January 2021 15: 47
    -13%
    Yes ... You can't praise yourself - no one will praise ... wink
  • Reviews
    Reviews 29 January 2021 15: 48
    +11
    I would only be "for", return "Gzhel" to the sky, but how to conduct reconnaissance from it? Visually? Poor visibility from anywhere. Radar? There is nowhere to hang the radar. Photo? A large photo hatch in a sealed circuit => design recalculation and a bunch of improvements, which in our conditions will stretch for a year (not counting the bureaucracy). The same plug - if desired, cut through the photo blister in the sidewall of the fuselage.
    Quick return to service? They stood in the open sky for at least 7-10 years, with the exception of one side, which Zavod-21 uses as a traveling one.
    By the way, the "caravan" mentioned by the author is also leaky.
    1. nsm1
      nsm1 29 January 2021 16: 27
      +3
      Quote: Avis
      Large photo hatch in a sealed circuit
      If you wish, you can put a video camera outside in a fairing, they are not so big.
      But if there is no ready-made device, they will make it the same year.
      IMHO solvable, if desired.
      1. Reviews
        Reviews 29 January 2021 16: 31
        +3
        Quote: nsm1
        Quote: Avis
        Large photo hatch in a sealed circuit
        If you wish, you can put a video camera outside in a fairing, they are not so big.

        Well, if only a container with a camera ...
      2. frog
        frog 29 January 2021 16: 45
        +4
        IMHO solvable, if desired.

        Exactly so, if you DESIRE. With which ...... On the other hand, depending on what you want ...
    2. Xenofont
      Xenofont 29 January 2021 19: 43
      -2
      And why should the conditional AFA pressurized circuit? Since the Second World War, they have flown without sealing.
      1. Reviews
        Reviews 29 January 2021 21: 30
        +1
        Quote: Xenofont
        And why should the conditional AFA pressurized circuit? Since the Second World War, they have flown without sealing.

        Have you read the article?
        From myself I will only add that the capabilities of air defense since WWII have grown "a little". A container with a camera, of course, does not require a sealed contour, but a full-fledged AFA takes up more space than a compact container can provide, which can be hung under the "Gzhel". She is small. And it will have to be placed inside the fuselage.
        1. Xenofont
          Xenofont 29 January 2021 22: 17
          0
          I talked about the fusel. Pitch swing platform is used as standard. Can shoot sideways. Today there are a lot of AFA, including non-military ones.
          1. Reviews
            Reviews 29 January 2021 22: 19
            0
            Quote: Xenofont
            I talked about the fusel. Pitch swing platform is used as standard.

            AND?..
            Can shoot sideways.

            Through duralumin? Original ...
            1. Xenofont
              Xenofont 29 January 2021 22: 25
              0
              In all old structures, some of the sheathing between the load-bearing elements was replaced with transparent plastic and worked perfectly. The angle of deflection of the lens is 15 degrees from the vertical.
              1. Reviews
                Reviews 29 January 2021 22: 39
                +1
                Quote: Xenofont
                In all the old structures, part of the sheathing between the load-bearing elements was replaced with transparent plastic and worked great.

                It's funny. Do you really know what a "working skin" is?
                1. Xenofont
                  Xenofont 29 January 2021 23: 00
                  0
                  Useless conversation. Laugh further.
                  1. Reviews
                    Reviews 30 January 2021 11: 11
                    -2
                    Quote: Xenofont
                    Useless conversation. Laugh further.

                    Means, not in the know. And this is no longer funny.
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 29 January 2021 20: 15
      -1
      Quote: Avis
      I would only be "for", return "Gzhel" to the sky, but how to conduct reconnaissance from it?

      Yes, any pilot understands who has dealt with such equipment. And for Klimov, all this is simple - to cut a hole in the side of an aircraft for him is the same as cutting a board on a ship and then welding it, and then at a factory. It is immediately clear that the author of the article has completely wild ideas about aviation technology, and even more so about small-sized and not all-weather, which is difficult to adapt to the needs of the military. That is why they pointed it out to him in the answer.
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 30 January 2021 17: 17
        +1
        You are right that implanting something into an existing plane is a very important task. As a result, the modernization will take so long that its result will not be needed by anyone. And after it is over, you have to start all over again. Endless feeder. Running in place.
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 January 2021 20: 16
          -1
          Strange, for some reason the same Americans do not have such problems. Can that be in the conservatory? Correct?
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 31 January 2021 00: 56
            +2
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Can that be in the conservatory?
            Maybe even that ... Vaughn - Musk scored on standard approaches and checks and rushed forward in the speed of design and construction. But with the military, this is not possible: not according to GOST, not according to instructions - the consequences up to landing. Even placing a simple laptop with a GPS sensor in an airplane (albeit with the ability to connect to the onboard power supply) required approval from the Aviation Design Bureau. Although it would seem - just a laptop, there are no questions at all in passenger planes.
            1. timokhin-aa
              4 February 2021 14: 31
              0
              But this is not the case with the military:


              We recall the "Secret War" in Laos, air operations over the Ho Chi Minh Trail and are surprised.

              We recall the work of Raven Forward air Controllers in guiding aircraft and artillery to the target.
              Everything works if you use your brains.
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 29 January 2021 16: 01
    +7
    21 looks more and more like 41
  • BAI
    BAI 29 January 2021 16: 15
    +2
    Oh, how many "most beautiful", "scientifically grounded" decisions for the Ministry of Defense I have seen in my time, which could do anything, but upon closer examination turned out to be another feeding trough.
    And how much time and effort it took to send all this to hell.
    In principle, in any organization (department) that is engaged in the procurement of something, proposals of this kind go in a continuous stream.
    There were calls even through Primakov. Evgeny Maksimovich had to refuse.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 29 January 2021 20: 28
      -1
      Quote: BAI
      In principle, in any organization (department) that is engaged in the procurement of something, proposals of this kind go in a continuous stream.

      You yourself understand what the one who answered Klimov thought. It is good that the Central Committee of the CPSU does not exist now, otherwise he would have written there - there was such a practice in the Soviet Union, and many "enthusiasts" used it.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 29 January 2021 17: 01
    +4
    Quote: Tatiana
    It is correct that Stalin, before the Second World War, cleared the USSR Armed Forces of traitors and slobs and brought discipline to the troops. And then all this did not immediately help in early 1941, but at least we won the Second World War.

    Yes, I cleaned it, but not all of them complied with Directive 1 and Directive 2.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 29 January 2021 17: 06
    +7
    In short, it's time to dust off the blueprints, he can handle it!

    1. Reviews
      Reviews 29 January 2021 17: 38
      +2
      Yes, we have our own drawings.



      We can do without your idols, if something happens.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 29 January 2021 19: 50
        +1
        We can do without your idols, if something happens.

        Never idols. I'm talking about the concept, if suddenly something.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 29 January 2021 21: 32
          -2
          Quote: Arzt
          We can do without your idols, if something happens.

          Never idols.

          They are the most.

          I'm talking about the concept, if suddenly something.

          Pachimuta, the FV-189 was chosen to illustrate the concept. Well, kanechna, by chance, yeah. Although, maybe by chance, because you don't know anything else besides him.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 29 January 2021 22: 08
            +1
            Pachimuta, the FV-189 was chosen to illustrate the concept. Well, kanechna, by chance, yeah. Although, maybe by chance, because you don't know anything else besides him.

            The most famous. It is immediately clear what this is about.

            And so, there was an article about two-girders.

            https://topwar.ru/22619-kogda-odnogo-fyuzelyazha-malo-samolety-dvuhbalochnoy-shemy.html
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 29 January 2021 22: 22
              -3
              Quote: Arzt
              Pachimuta, the FV-189 was chosen to illustrate the concept. Well, kanechna, by chance, yeah. Although, maybe by chance, because you don't know anything else besides him.

              The most famous.

              The excuse is rotten and poor.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 29 January 2021 22: 50
                0
                The excuse is rotten and poor.

                Did you read the article at all?
                It's about a cheap twin-engine reconnaissance aircraft.
                1. Reviews
                  Reviews 30 January 2021 11: 13
                  -2
                  Quote: Arzt
                  The excuse is rotten and poor.

                  Did you read the article at all?
                  It's about a cheap twin-engine reconnaissance aircraft.

                  ... and not about your rapture with the fascists.
  • clerk
    clerk 29 January 2021 17: 54
    +1
    If Maxim Klimov sounds the alarm about the events of 4 years ago, then the problem that existed then is already being successfully solved and we can only rejoice for the Russian Armed Forces.
  • tank66
    tank66 29 January 2021 18: 12
    +2
    How long have we been in that Syria / not-I'm not a defeatist, and gladly buy lemons and something else from there /
    So isn't it time to hang a companion there with little eyes or a couple winked
  • borys
    borys 29 January 2021 18: 24
    +4
    There was a question from Sayan - "if the author is so smart, then why
    is he not in the General Staff? "That is why he is not in the General Staff, that really
    smart.
  • lelik613
    lelik613 29 January 2021 18: 34
    +1
    Have you tried to shoot? helps ...
  • t-12
    t-12 29 January 2021 19: 22
    +1
    Well, we are not 41 years old, and the war is not on our territory

    Do you think that now is 1941? What is the enemy near Moscow and Leningrad? That you need to mobilize somehow trained 10-graders and plug the holes in the defense with them? That instead of special equipment, you need to use any civilian equipment at hand?

    They wrote to you in a clear answer: for RTR it is advisable to use reconnaissance aircraft specially designed for this, and not civil aircraft that have been "in storage" for many years. You even highlighted this phrase in red.
    1. timokhin-aa
      30 January 2021 20: 13
      -1
      But these special planes are still missing ..
      Such a small nuance.
  • bad
    bad 29 January 2021 20: 39
    +17
    Maxim (author), when do you have time for everything? Recently the naval ranks were "kicked", now they have taken up the "aviators". You are doing the right thing. good And then some in the headquarters live quietly.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 31 January 2021 13: 36
      +1
      Quote: malo
      You are doing the right thing. And then some in the headquarters live quietly.

      Read the answers he gave to him, and then it will immediately become clear why this searchlight was not invited anywhere, even for a normal interview. And all his "theoretical calculations" were simply sent to the basket, forwarded to the lower structures.
      1. timokhin-aa
        1 February 2021 22: 38
        -2
        Answer from Klimov:

        Ensign TsTSSR:
        Read the answers he gave to him, and then it will immediately become clear why this searchlight was not invited anywhere, even for a normal interview. And all his "theoretical calculations" were simply sent to the basket, forwarded to the lower structures.


        MK: Ensign, as usual you DO NOT. For example, part of the answer is BLANKED. Well, in the article there is a specific hint that technical meetings (and not only) on this topic were held, EMZ not just "monitored in detail" then the status and operating time of EACH side (I can give on each side (except for the flying one))

        And yes:

        The ensign flaunts the fact that he was somewhere and did something, but in fact, he solved issues in the service like this:



        We also pay attention to how ccsr is written in the Russian layout - he did it on purpose, he enjoys such deviant behavior, like, here I got into a decent society with what nickname, and no one noticed, hahaha, the same pathology makes ensign to write what he writes.
        He got smart words on the forums, and you can even show them on which ones. He knows nothing but clearing snow.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 2 February 2021 12: 55
          +1
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Well, the article contains a specific hint that technical meetings (and not only) on this topic were held,

          This is a common reply to get rid of the persistent amateur.
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          We also pay attention to the fact

          So tell us better about your service at the headquarters of the fleet Klimov - you stubbornly hide it, what's the matter?
          1. mine
            mine 2 February 2021 14: 05
            -2
            Quote: ccsr
            This is a common reply to get rid of the persistent amateur.

            warrant, you fool
            OFFSET - GUNID, because it was turned into an "office for unsubscriptions"
            but the preparatory work was more than carried out, and from the technical point of view there was no question of what to put there (at the first stage, then the RF Ministry of Defense itself was "added")
            Quote: ccsr
            So tell us better about your service at the headquarters of the fleet Klimov - you stubbornly hide it, what's the matter?

            fool
            but the fact that this is your personal DRUNKNESS, with which you stomp to the PSYCHIATR
            I'm not a doctor
  • Nikon OConor
    Nikon OConor 29 January 2021 22: 17
    +3
    "A subordinate, in the face of a supervisor, must look dashing and silly. So that his understanding does not lead to confusion" (c) Peter I the Great.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 31 January 2021 13: 45
      +2
      Quote: Nikon OConor
      "A subordinate, in the face of a supervisor, must look dashing and silly. So that his understanding does not lead to confusion" (c) Peter I the Great.

      Peter himself was a military man, and he knew what tricks any soldier would go to not to do what he did not want. So a silly look is just a protective mask, and it won't occur to you how quickly an officer thinks when he sees that he is being forced to do some kind of garbage, and he urgently needs to find a reason not to do it. More than one personal computer is unable to calculate what in a split second rushes through his head, but the found argument for refusing to do work is even more striking. And when the boss hears this, he has no choice but to bark and force him to comply with the order, or to do the work himself for his subordinate. All this is learned in the course of a long service, and therefore not everyone understands what is hidden by a "silly look" ...
  • Hermit21
    Hermit21 30 January 2021 07: 50
    -1
    Oh, hydromayor mutates into a wide-profile xperd
    1. DWG1905
      DWG1905 30 January 2021 09: 00
      +4
      Respect to Klimov, a brave man, he is right. For ccsr, I can say that his commentary is deep theoretical speculation on the one hand and a cover for those figures in the RF Ministry of Defense who, hiding behind clever words about GOST, OTT of the Air Force and other smart books, do not want to do shit and do not have the proper competence. In many cases, the requirements for military equipment are excessive and impracticable in a reasonable time frame. And the problem must be solved here and now. The issue of continuous reconnaissance is closed by a pair of Tu-214s, two flights each 8 hours each, if the problem needs to be solved. If you really need to, you can strain and re-equip a couple more Tu-154s from the presence by installing optics and RTR and PP and DISS (because of electronic warfare), or you can also a side-looking locator. If you don’t click with a mitten, don’t start competitions, write TTZ for 200 pages and design work for 20 years, the plane will be refitted in 6 months maximum, and you can do it faster. There is no need to invent, we have everything, maybe not as cool as the Americans, but for Syria for the eyes. It is clear that the Tu-214 and 154 and even the Il-20 are redundant for this theater of operations, but there is no other. And the UAV, yes, must be done, as well as communication channels, satellites, but this is a long time, and the war is going on now. The problem of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is a huge bureaucratic mechanism that is not able to quickly make well-grounded verified technical decisions and quickly implement them. Although with all the collapse in the industry and the stupidity of the leadership, she is still able to work quickly. For ccsr Р and РТР, sticking into the plane is not a question at all, tk. this equipment does not emit, but listens (EMC requirements are minimal), most of the time will be spent on making a fairing for the antenna.
      1. DWG1905
        DWG1905 30 January 2021 09: 25
        +5
        For the T-12, what are these specialized reconnaissance aircraft, how the flight of an electronic reconnaissance aircraft differs from the flight of a passenger aircraft on the Moscow-Sochi route. All over the world, a suitable transport aircraft is taken and equipped with the necessary equipment, antennas and windows and forward, and if you can get a lot of money, you can also refuel in the air and let it hang until the crew swells up or the oil in the turbojet engine tank starts running out (this is perhaps the main limitation, but hours for 20 is enough).
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 January 2021 20: 19
          0
          Great comments, thanks.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Reviews
        Reviews 30 January 2021 11: 15
        +1
        Quote: DWG1905
        re-equip a couple more Tu-154s from the presence by installing (...) DISS

        Why does he need a second DISS?
      4. ccsr
        ccsr 31 January 2021 14: 08
        +2
        Quote: DWG1905
        In many cases, the requirements for military equipment are excessive and impracticable within a reasonable time frame.

        It is because of such "specialists" that in 1941 our tanks' engines broke down after several hours of operation, and the clutch burned out, and the pilots had little flight time, because the aircraft engine resource did not allow intensive combat training. But for that, thousands of tanks and hundreds of aircraft were destroyed not even in battle, but because they could not get under way on June 22, and then Stalin and some of the military were blamed for everything.
        By the way, do you even know how many people died in the Soviet Army before the collapse of the country, and how many of them were due to technical failures? And then the boat "Moskovsky Komsomolets" was lost, everything was written off as naval, and hushed up for clarity, because the industry did not want to answer. And here you are rubbing in something about the requirements, completely not realizing that because of this people are dying in peacetime. But you probably don't care - it's not your son who will drown in the boat ...

        Quote: DWG1905
        The issue of continuous reconnaissance is closed by a pair of Tu-214s, two flights each 8 hours each, if the problem needs to be solved.

        And the rest of the time, who will conduct reconnaissance, especially considering that this is an operational reconnaissance aircraft?
        Quote: DWG1905
        If you really need to, you can strain and re-equip a couple more Tu-154s from the presence by installing optics and RTR and PP and DISS (because of electronic warfare), or you can also a side-looking locator.

        First, calculate the cost of the flight and fuel consumption, maybe the whim will pass. The Il-20M was just the most optimal aircraft, and taking into account its reliability, it is not at all clear to me why they switch to the Tu-214R, if the classic Tu-95 is still used in strategic aviation. There is only one reason - the Il-18 as a glider is no longer advisable to maintain at all, so they switched to another aircraft.
        Quote: DWG1905
        the aircraft is refitted in 6 months maximum, or faster.

        Those. converted in an unrealistic time, and he flew right away? And you don't need to test it at all?
        Are you out of your mind when you talk about such terms?
        Quote: DWG1905
        It is clear that the Tu-214 and 154 and even the Il-20 are redundant for this theater of operations, but there is no other.

        What makes you think that the Il-20M was redundant there? Tell us who told you this, and what do you personally have to do with intelligence to say this?
        Quote: DWG1905
        For ccsr Р and РТР, sticking into the plane is not a question at all, tk. this equipment does not emit, but listens (EMC requirements are minimal), most of the time will be spent on making a fairing for the antenna.

        And the side-looking radar also does not emit? Do not take into account the weight and placement of RTR equipment when designing, but simply place it as you like? And the fact that during an emergency landing it can rip it off the mountings and smear someone's head is also not necessary to take into account - you will be responsible for everything later, well, well ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          1 February 2021 22: 24
          -2
          From Klimov:

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          It is because of such "specialists" that in 1941 our tanks' engines broke down after several hours of operation, and the clutch burned out, and the pilots had little flight time, because the aircraft engine resource did not allow intensive combat training.


          MK: this is a LIE and an illiterate trash of reality - see the video on the Red Army Air Force BP on "Tactic Media"

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          And then the boat "Moskovsky Komsomolets" died,


          MK: Ensign, YOU already have MUSTARD BREDD there was no such submarine, there was a destroyer (project 56), - on a hike at YOU already "Moskovskaya vodka" turned to "Belochka-Komsomolets"

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          And the rest of the time, who will conduct reconnaissance, especially considering that this is an operational reconnaissance aircraft?


          MK: i.e. not looking at their STREAMS OF LIES, the fraudulent ensign of TsTSSRE EXCELLENTLY UNDERSTANDS that in fact there is practically NOTHING to conduct the necessary reconnaissance ...

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          First, calculate the cost of the flight and fuel consumption, maybe the whim will pass. The Il-20M was just the most optimal aircraft, and taking into account its reliability, it is not at all clear to me why they switch to Tu-214R,


          MK: Prapor TsTSSR simply has no idea about the RESOURCE of the aircraft design, which, alas, very little remained in the very good aircraft and the Il-20M reconnaissance aircraft

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          if the classic Tu-95 is still used in strategic aviation.


          MK: Prapor, do you even know that they have DIFFERENT ENGINES?

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          Those. converted in an unrealistic time, and he flew right away? And you don't need to test it at all? Are you out of your mind when you talk about such terms?


          MK: warrant officer, YOU RAVE and SHOOT here (not having the slightest idea of ​​R&D, aviation, or RR and RTR). the real time is MUCH LESS (when using ready-made "special means") and re-equipment includes incl. and necessary tests

          Ensign TsSSRe:
          What makes you think that the Il-20M was redundant there? Tell us who told you this, and what do you personally have to do with intelligence to say this?


          MK: with the fact that the dimensions of this theater are reliably covered by an aircraft with a LOT lower operating cost (correspondingly, without the need to "kill" the remains of the resource of especially valuable scouts). By the way, ensign, what do YOU ​​have to do with intelligence? The fact that YOU were drinking with ensigns from "HRU-HRU-HROOM" (which YOU were "in secret" whispering about the "coordinates of American aircraft carriers")?

          Ensign TsSSRe:
          And the side-looking radar also does not emit? Do not take into account the weight and placement of RTR equipment when designing, but simply place it as you like? And the fact that during an emergency landing it can rip it off the mountings and smear someone's head is also not necessary to take into account - you will be responsible for everything later, well, well ...


          MK: The radar can be installed or not. In a specific situation (according to M-101T), the radar issue WAS CONSIDERED (prototype). At the same time, the M-101T would not have had ANY problems with it (as it did not have with it on a number of other aircraft where it was already deployed). According to the "placement", - the screeching of an illiterate ensign TsTSSRe is simply ridiculous, for the INSTALLATION BY CONSIDERATION WITH THE AIRCRAFT DEVELOPER (who WERE CONSIDERED such options and IMMEDIATED IN THE DESIGN OF THE AIRCRAFT IMMEDIATELY)

          From myself I will add - ensign, why did you cite the Tu-95 as an example? These aircraft are not old at all, the last board was handed over to the Customer after the collapse of the USSR, the Il-20M is a completely different story.

          And yes:

          The ensign flaunts the fact that he was somewhere and did something, but in fact, he solved issues in the service like this:



          We also pay attention to how ccsr is written in the Russian layout - he did it on purpose, he enjoys such deviant behavior, the same pathology forces the ensign to write what he writes.
          He got smart words on the forums, and you can even show them on which ones. He knows nothing but clearing snow.
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  • Bronekot
    Bronekot 30 January 2021 10: 50
    +3
    Author. Since you are so informed. You should know that foot reconnaissance and reconnaissance means reported on the concentration of militants in the Palmyra region in Khimki more than once !! Even with a photo. But the answer was in the style of 41, it is impossible, and more than once !!
    1. clerk
      clerk 30 January 2021 11: 12
      -2
      Perhaps the answer is that Palmyra does not seem to have significant military-strategic importance - it is easy to take, but difficult to keep.
      1. timokhin-aa
        30 January 2021 20: 09
        -1
        It is a strategic point, "half-way to Deir es-Zor", together with T4 Tadmor it is the key to central Syria. An important point was and is, and it was not in vain that they were so cut for it.
        Do not write nonsense, please, this is a request for the future.
        1. clerk
          clerk 30 January 2021 20: 58
          +1
          When they released her for the first time, they didn’t really cut her down for her. And the second time too. As for the nonsense, the analysis of your juggling is given in the thread about the large fleet.
          1. timokhin-aa
            1 February 2021 22: 16
            -1
            You do not know anything about the battles for Tadmor, do not write nonsense, that before the "branch about the big fleet", then give a link.
            1. clerk
              clerk 2 February 2021 08: 36
              +1
              1) Syrian President Bashar al-Assad called the attack on Palmyra an attempt to divert attention from Aleppo (c) 2) "The basics of shipbuilding policy, a large and strong Navy is inexpensive."
              1. timokhin-aa
                4 February 2021 14: 27
                -1
                1. This does not mean in any way that they did not fight for Palmyra.
                2. I wrote a LINK. On comment.
                There are hundreds of you there. Do I have to shovel the whole thread? No, I would overlook if I personally considered you a healthy person, otherwise I won't even waste time.
                Give a link.
                1. clerk
                  clerk 4 February 2021 14: 59
                  +1
                  1) Chopped. But not on the same scale as for more strategically important points. 2)) My post in that thread is one of the most recent - at the bottom of the page. But you can continue playing.
          2. Bronekot
            Bronekot 2 February 2021 01: 25
            +1
            Not chopped? Tell that to the lost. Both times !!
            1. clerk
              clerk 2 February 2021 08: 37
              +1
              In the war, people die, including in secondary areas.
    2. timokhin-aa
      30 January 2021 20: 06
      -1
      There was no concentration there, there were separate forward detachments of ISIS, a few dozen bandits, and the blow was struck on the move, in the traditional Arab style, which is why it happened.
      The question was precisely in listening to the radio communications of the militants, in identifying their intelligence activities, and the forces were waiting for them in other places.
    3. mine
      mine 3 February 2021 12: 14
      -2
      Quote: Bronekot
      Author. Since you are so informed. You should know that foot reconnaissance and reconnaissance means reported on the concentration of militants in the Palmyra region in Khimki more than once !! Even with a photo. But the answer was in the style of 41, it is impossible, and more than once !!

      agree
      alas, our bosses are used to "cartoons" (presentations)
      and in a number of cases they also perceive printed text and signs on maps (or ACS) very badly
      especially when you really don't want to see "inconvenient information" ...
      only now a REAL photo and video "comes in" (and reaches) much better
  • svoit
    svoit 30 January 2021 12: 17
    +1
    They "flew to the war" ("for a medal" and an entry in the personal file). "For reconnaissance" (in quotes) - with the included transpoder
    but in Syria, they probably flew without him, and he was probably replaced by another
    1. DWG1905
      DWG1905 30 January 2021 13: 20
      0
      I did not write from storage, in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation there is nothing special to take from storage. I wrote Tu-154 from the presence (in a state of airworthiness), and these are two big differences. Crew training - 3 months. And from storage, you can search in other government departments, and shake private traders (indirectly, all the same, it’s on the people's money) and you will be surprised to find many Tu-204,214 aircraft that still fly and fly. Moreover, all the same, the planes from private traders will not rise into the air, sooner or later they will be sent as scrap metal. I think that 5 additional machines can be quickly brought into airworthiness condition. And DISS is needed due to the fact that all and sundry satellites crush and generate false coordinates. That is, if there is a real need, the grouping of reconnaissance aircraft can be increased. And with Palmyra, I think there is more than a joint intelligence, mainly SAR. The Barmalei did not have an SS Panzer Corps with the Royal Tigers, but light mobile forces that could quickly concentrate. Therefore, here you need to know the plans of the enemy, and the counting of carts in the desert will not show much.
      1. clerk
        clerk 30 January 2021 16: 31
        +1
        In this scenario, your position is more understandable - in that particular situation in Syria, a rush with ersatz was not required, and in terms of military construction for the future, ersatz scouts converted from civil liners for storage were not required even more. Conclusion: Klimov's writings to the General Staff for Syria in 2016 are a dummy and, quite rightly, they sent it to the unsubscribe department.
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 January 2021 20: 12
          -1
          I am forwarding the answer from M. Klimov:

          In this scenario, your position is more understandable - in that particular situation in Syria, a rush with ersatz was not required,


          tell me, monsieur, have you ever read what you are trying to refute with foam at the mouth?
          Maybe YOU can name the intelligence system EXISTING and deployed in Syria with the specified level of efficiency (first of all, providing round-the-clock constant monitoring and relaying)? We are waiting
          1. clerk
            clerk 30 January 2021 21: 02
            +1
            Ask the CIA - they can tell you. But in general, your jump from the topic is sewn up - instead of an objection in essence - you are trying to translate the conversation into technical details (along the way to find out something) and chatter the topic. Let me remind you that we are talking about the meaningfulness of Klimov's proposal in 2016 regarding the conversion of civilian airliners into scouts. Taking into account the specific operational situation, time and material factors. Do you have anything to say in essence, or will you jump like that?
            1. timokhin-aa
              1 February 2021 22: 33
              -2
              So you are leaving the topic, Klimov knows perfectly well the answer to the question asked to you - there is NO such system until now. It could have been.

              And you continue to wriggle here like a worm.
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        2. ccsr
          ccsr 31 January 2021 14: 23
          +1
          Quote: clerk
          Conclusion: Klimov's writings to the General Staff for Syria in 2016 are a dummy and, quite rightly, they sent it to the unsubscribe department.

          Absolutely correct assessment - the main thing for him is to crawl so that everyone understands how preoccupied he is, and that even if everyone does as he fantasizes, then where to do it all later, and whether the money spent will be thrown away. And isn't it better to spend money on the development of a full-fledged reconnaissance aircraft, taking into account the long history of the Te-214R, and not engage in manilovism. And then one more "specialist" was found - let's adapt the ancient Tu-154 for aerial reconnaissance, as if it were to attach a homemade sidecar to a motorcycle at home. In general, you read these "experts" and you understand that these figures not only do not know how to do it, but moreover, they are ready to leave the country without pants thanks to their "extraordinary thinking".
          1. timokhin-aa
            1 February 2021 22: 13
            -1
            Ensign, you are crowing here.
            Answer from Klimov below:

            Fraudulent ensign TsTSSRE!
            1. Airplanes ALREADY EXIST, with a huge residual resource and a MINIMUM (which is simply not close) cost of a flight hour.
            2. REMOVABLE special equipment (literally "you can put it on your hands", antennas and their placement - in agreement with EMZ, other "special equipment", including detailed OE of reconnaissance - in accordance with the (long) READY CD EMZ, everything is elementary , stupidly because when the plane (including its SPECIAL variants) was being developed it all had a LOT of large MGHs.
            3. RAVE about "the development of another reconnaissance aircraft" can be either a complete layman (or a warrant officer for the footcloths of the CCSR), who does not have the slightest idea about the development of aircraft and the means of RR and RTR
            4. A warrant officer TsTSSRe, like a thimble-giver, "juggles" the words Tu-214R and Il-20M without having the slightest idea what is behind them and what are the real possibilities of these "special ships" ..
            5. Yes, there is a VERY shortage of reconnaissance aircraft, both for the Navy and the Aerospace Forces (including in Syria).
            6. The fraudulent warrant officer TsTSSRe can only screech about allegedly "leaving no pants" (and about an aircraft with a cost of one or two ORDERSES less than "traditional" reconnaissance aircraft), because he has no idea, neither about R&D, nor about special intelligence assets and their use. All his tales about how his "sidekick-prapora from xRy-xRu-xRu" "secretly and in the ear" whispered in "realtime" the coordinates of American aircraft carriers (etc. "creative") - this is "ward number 6".

            And on my own behalf I will add this - the ensign flaunts the fact that he was somewhere and did something, but in fact, he solved issues in the service like this:



            We also pay attention to how ccsr is written in the Russian layout - this creature did it on purpose, he enjoys such deviant behavior, the same pathology forces the ensign to write what he writes.
            He got smart words on the forums, and you can even show them on which ones. He knows nothing but clearing snow.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 2 February 2021 12: 40
              +1
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              1. Airplanes ALREADY EXIST, with a huge residual resource and a MINIMUM (which is simply not close) cost of a flight hour.

              Again demagoguery - no type, no name, no characteristics, no purpose. And so it is always, as soon as it comes to specifics.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              everything gets up elementary,

              After all, the crook is lying - only standard equipment gets up elementary, and even the attachment points need to be altered for non-standard equipment.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              RAVE about the "development of another reconnaissance aircraft" can be either a complete layman (or a warrant officer for the footcloths of the Central Center for Strategic Research), who does not have the slightest idea about the development of aircraft and the means of RR and RTR

              Yes, it was ordered by the GRU GSh back in the 214s, even before the events in Syria - where did you get both of these "smart" guys who don't know the history of the Tu-XNUMXR?
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              for he has no idea, neither about R&D, nor about special intelligence means and their use.

              In my time, the modernization of the Il-20M was underway, and I knew those who were involved in this. But this was not my profile, I was engaged in a different technique.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              And on my own behalf I will add this - the ensign flaunts the fact that he was somewhere and did something, but in fact, he solved issues in the service like this:

              Oh, you are the underwater darkness - it was too serious an object, in comparison with which even Kupavensky looked too primitive. However, you are unlikely to drive in what is at stake ...
              By the way, Timokhin, why didn't Klimov answer, how long did he serve in the headquarters of the fleet and why was he so "promising" fired? Isn't this the answer to all his "creativity"? And then I knew such offended, then they got the former command, a well-known phenomenon for some garbage ...
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              2. timokhin-aa
                4 February 2021 14: 24
                -1
                Oh, you are the underwater darkness - it was too serious an object, compared with which even Kupavensky looked too primitive.


                Well, for some, a food warehouse is a serious object, there is nowhere more serious, I understand that.
              3. 2534M
                2534M 9 February 2021 16: 08
                -2
                Quote: ccsr
                In my time, the modernization of the Il-20M was taking place, and I knew those who were involved in this.

                if they REALLY knew - now they wouldn't be flogged
                Quote: ccsr
                By the way, Timokhin, why didn't Klimov answer, how long did he serve at the headquarters of the fleet and why was he so "promising" fired?

                fool
                with this delusion wassat to the doctor
                I have no medical education
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik 30 January 2021 17: 32
    +2
    Quote: DWG1905
    If you really need to, you can strain and re-equip a couple more Tu-154s from the presence by installing optics and RTR and PP and DISS (because of electronic warfare), or you can also a side-looking locator. If you don’t click with a mitten, don’t start competitions, write TTZ for 200 pages and design work for 20 years, the plane will be refitted in 6 months maximum, and you can do it faster.

    It will not work in our conditions. For six months only letters will be written to each other and meetings of cooperation participants will be held. Even without the discovery of OCD, you must go through GLITS. Then eliminate the shortcomings, re-present. Please note that optics and any other load must be ordered and manufactured. This is not "go to the store and buy".
    1. timokhin-aa
      30 January 2021 20: 11
      -1
      The answer from the author of the article, M. Klimov (he himself is banned, I'm just passing it on):

      No need to order - “take off in one place, deliver in another”.
      According to the "technique", for the "first time" it was necessary to "twist the bolts and nuts", and in order to "chop off" the GIRI "org questions", the "intent" was to carry it out through research and development
      (and then - according to the "Wishlist" of the customer).
  • con_nick
    con_nick 1 February 2021 11: 01
    -1
    Quote: victor50
    I wonder why Korea with a smaller population, Japan with the same can produce something, but it is not profitable for us?

    I can give you one specific example. At one time, we bought a Canadian plant of Versatile tractors. Putin asked why the production of these tractors is not being transferred to Russia. They wrote him a note. If you're interested, read on)
    https://babkin-k.livejournal.com/182898.html
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 1 February 2021 19: 21
    +1
    The problem is the absence of a theater and serial production of turboprop ....... There is nothing to replace the An-30 yet. From here we dance. You can bungle something with a TV3-117 (aircraft) .... 2000-3000 hp.
  • Andre
    Andre 2 February 2021 18: 40
    -1
    A friend of mine in the Moscow region went to work with a company, and for a very long time could not find someone to talk to. A lot of sitting.
  • Aag
    Aag 3 February 2021 15: 27
    -1
    Maxim, thank you for your publications, for your indifference.
    Please tell me what
    may consist of help from officers-pence to your movement (I did not dare to put in quotes, without irony, but, taking into account the realities of state lawlessness ...) for real support of the country's defense (with all that it implies, -not a fig, -not a militarist). But it seems that some of the decisions are made taking into account the military component (for now, there is no point in touching the economy at all ...) No.