Military Review

Marine stories. Friday the 13th or a scuffle at Guadalcanal

110
Having told about the first night battle near the Savo Island, which is part of the Solomon Islands group, naturally entails a second narrative, which was in no way inferior in intensity to the first battle. And in some things he excelled.



At its core, the battle at Guadalcanal on November 13, 1942 was not entirely traditional. About the same as the first battle off the Savo Island. On the other hand, what does “traditional sea battle” mean?

Well, until very recently, these were wake columns of ships, throwing various ammunition at each other. The whole question is only in range and power. So it was in the First World War. But already in the twentieth century, it became more interesting to throw blanks over the horizon, and even more interesting - to send planes there instead of shells.

Cheap and cheerful, because, as it turned out, twenty destroyed planes, plugging a destroyer with bombs or torpedoes, are not only cheaper, they are not worth anything compared to a destroyer. And if you sink several ships, albeit at the cost of hundreds of aircraft ...

Of course, Yamato fans can argue with me ... But ALL battles at sea took place according to this scenario. With insanely rare exceptions, such as the night battle at the Savo Island or the massacre of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau over the Glories. The rest of the significant events took place with the help of aviation... Even an artillery battle with "Bismarck" seems to be. Whose torpedo jammed his rudders?

The battle at Guadalcanal on November 13, 1942 is interesting because it is a natural classic, artillery battle. But - with an interesting nuance. The fact is that the Japanese flew into the battle for themselves quite unexpectedly, but the Americans, not only were ready, but also went to this format quite deliberately.

At the same time, it came as a surprise to the Japanese side. The Americans, on the other hand, went on it deliberately for several reasons. In the end, everything turned into such an outrage, the results of which both sides were stunned.

So, Solomon Islands, late 1942. In June, the Japanese captured the islands, in August the Americans recaptured the islands and even completed the Japanese airfield on Guadalcanal. The presence of this airfield will later play a very important role in the events, since the nearest airfields of the Japanese were on Bougainville Island, 600 km from Guadalcanal.

What about aircraft carriers? And it was bad about them.

Do not forget that the Battle of Midway recently took place, where the Yankees gave the Japanese revenge, sinking the aircraft carriers Akagi (82 aircraft), Kaga (82), Hiryu and Soryu (54 aircraft each).

And a month before Midway there was a battle in the Coral Sea, where the Americans lost Lexington (78 aircraft), and the Japanese lost Seho (30 aircraft).


Well, August and September in 1942 were very fruitful, as the Japanese sank the Wasp (78 aircraft) and seriously damaged the Saratoga (78 aircraft) and the Enterprise (80 aircraft). The Americans sank the Ryudze (44 aircraft).

Plus in October the Japanese sank the Hornet (80 aircraft). True, they themselves were forced to send Sekaku, Zuikaku and Zuiho for repair and replenishment of the aircraft fleet.

And by November there was only one American Enterprise left in the Solomon Islands region, which had just returned from repairs.

Thus, massive air battles were canceled due to the lack of aircraft at the disposal of the fleets. The Japanese, however, had light aircraft carriers "Hosho" (20 aircraft) and "Chieda" (24 aircraft), the Americans had "Nassau" (20 aircraft), but information about their whereabouts at the time of the battle could not be found.

That was how sad it was with aviation. And both sides continued to send convoys, and, what is most interesting, they tried to intercept, because it is obviously much easier to drown several thousand people in bulk in the sea than to pick them out of the jungle.

And naturally, both sides tried to deliver reinforcements to their troops on the islands. And the Japanese decided to launch a general offensive on Guadalcanal in order to recapture the island and use the airfield that was finally completed by the Americans.


For this, 11 transports were allocated, on which 7000 infantry, 3500 marines, artillery, Tanks, ammunition and other useful things. 11 destroyers of Admiral Raizo Tanaka were supposed to cover the transports. From the air, the convoy was to be covered by the aircraft of the aircraft carrier "Dzuiho".

In turn, "Zuiho" was supposed to guard a strike force of two battle cruisers "Kongo" and "Haruna", a heavy cruiser "Tone" and two destroyers.

In order to neutralize the American aviation, the airfield on Guadalcanal had to destroy the ships of another detachment by artillery fire, which included the battle cruisers Hiei and Kirishima (of the same type Congo), the light cruiser Nagara and 14 destroyers. The detachment was commanded by Admiral Hiroaki Abe.


Battle cruiser "Hiei"

And all this considerable gang moved towards the Solomon Islands. The landing was scheduled for November 13 ...

Naturally, such a rather large convoy did not go unnoticed, American patrol aircraft found Japanese ships and reported to the command. The commander of the American forces, Admiral Turner, ordered the transports to urgently leave the area, and Admiral Callaghan to take all the ships available and move towards the enemy.

Callaghan's compound included the heavy cruisers San Francisco and Portland, the light cruisers Atlanta, Juno, and Helena, and 8 destroyers. As they say, what are they rich in ...


Heavy cruiser "San Francisco"


Heavy cruiser "Portland"


Light cruiser "Juno", type "Atlanta"

On the way to Savo Island, the Japanese rebuilt in order to open fire on the airfield. At that moment, American ships approached and in the darkness of a tropical night the radiometrists of the cruiser "Helena" at 1:24 am found the Japanese by radar.

But the Japanese found the Americans quite well without radars. Well, there was no radar on the Japanese ships. And at 1 hour 48 minutes searchlights flashed on the Japanese ships, highlighting the American ships with merciless fire. Admiral Abe ordered to open fire ...

The first on the "distribution" was "Atlanta", which was fired at by both strangers and their own. Plus, in this confusion, a torpedo was planted in the engine room of the cruiser. "Atlanta" lost its course and control, was killed by Admiral Scott and many officers.

The second was the destroyer Kushing, which was the first in the column. Several destroyers and the cruiser Nagara began to shoot at him at once. The destroyer fell out of the battle with very serious damage.

But the Americans fired back. Who played the role of the Akatsuki searchlight station received from everyone at once, fortunately, there was no big problem in shooting at the searchlights. Three cruisers and three destroyers literally riddled the Japanese ship and the Akatsuki sank, becoming the first victim of the battle.


Destroyer "Akatsuki"

Destroyers Sterett, Laffey and O Bannon attacked Hiei with torpedoes, but the torpedoes were not cocked due to the very short distance.

Next came the turn of the San Francisco, which was targeted by six destroyers and the Hiei, which was illuminating the American cruiser. The Frisco destroyed the entire superstructure with precise shooting, the commander of the detachment, Admiral Callaghan, was killed, and fires raged on the cruiser. But the San Francisco's return fire damaged the Hiei, which put out the floodlights. Taking advantage of the darkness, "San Francisco" and "Helena" withdrew from the battle.

The cruiser "Nagara" and the destroyers "Yukikaze" and "Terruzuki" stumbled upon the "Kushing", which was damaged at the beginning of the battle and was drifting and finished it off with shells. The Cushing sank.


Destroyer "Kushing", type "Mahan"

The American destroyer Laffey, which slipped past the Hieya, immediately after it ran into the destroyers Samidare, Murosame and Asagumo, which closed the Japanese order. The Japanese hit Laffey with a torpedo and finished off with shells. The destroyer exploded and sank.

Other American ships fared no better. While "Portland" was engaged in the shooting of "Akatsuki", "good people" in the person of the destroyers "Inazuma" and "Akazuchi" stuck a torpedo into the stern of the heavy cruiser. Not only did the shattered claddings jam the steering, they themselves began to play the role of the steering wheel, forcing the Portland to circle in circulation.

"Portland" was able to fire 4 volleys at "Hiei", but did not rush around in circles, but stopped the cars and got out of the battle, remaining under the cover of darkness.

Not far from Portland, the light cruiser Juno froze in the dark, to which the destroyer Yudachi disabled the steering with a torpedo and interrupted the keel.

And about the same time the destroyer Burton was sinking to the bottom, into which hot Japanese guys from the destroyer Amatsukaze were hit by two torpedoes at once.

In general, the Japanese were leading 3: 1 on the sunken ships, plus three cruisers were disabled.

Meanwhile, the battle continued, the Japanese, who had gone into a rage, began to destroy everything in their path.

The destroyer Laffey, the Japanese destroyers Samidare, Murosame and Asagumo, who sunk the destroyer Laffey, found the destroyer Monssen. In general, with "Monssen" it turned out stupid история... One of his cruisers began to shoot at him, and the captain of the ship did not think of anything else but to turn on the identification lights. Their own, perhaps, stopped firing, but three Japanese destroyers turned the American ship into a sieve.


Destroyer "Monssen", class "Benson"

"Monssen" lost speed, control and everything weapon... The team left the destroyer, but it sank only in the morning.

4: 1 in favor of Japanese fleet.

"Amatsukadze" accidentally discovered the wrecked San Francisco and was about to finish off the cruiser with torpedoes, but the Helena, hanging out in the darkness nearby, intervened and fired a volley into the side of the Japanese destroyer.

Marine stories. Friday the 13th or a scuffle at Guadalcanal
Heavy cruiser "Helena"

The situation turned upside down, but fortunately for the Amatsukadze crew, his problems were seen by the lively three Samidare, Murosame and Asagumo. Three Japanese destroyers opened fire on the Helena with all their barrels.


Destroyer "Asagumo"

Of course, the destroyers could not inflict serious damage to the cruiser, but they installed a smoke screen and dragged the rather crumpled Amatsukadze away.

Aaron Ward and Starrett discovered the lone Yudachi and attacked it with shells and torpedoes. We got it. We hit well, the team left the ship, but it did not sink and remained afloat.

Further luck for the Americans ended, "Starrett" outright lost the battle to the destroyer "Teruzuki" and left the battle, and "Aaron Ward" ran into the "Kirishima". It didn’t sink, but it ceased to be a battleship, because after all, a battle cruiser is serious.

On this the night battle was essentially over. It lasted only 38 minutes. At 2:26 pm, the oldest surviving American officer, Captain (Captain 1st Rank in our opinion), Gilbert Hoover ordered everyone who could go to the base.

But it turned out that not all were fighting. And in the morning the show continued to some extent.

At dawn, the Portland, which was slowly settling and being repaired, saw the Yudachi, abandoned by the crew, hanging nearby. Several volleys - and the score was 4: 2.

But not for long. The cruiser Atlanta, riddled with both strangers and his own (mostly), was never saved, and by evening it sank to the bottom. 5: 2 in favor of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

And the crawling battered American ships caught up with a submarine and sank the cruiser Juno. 6: 2.

By the way, the American Navy's rescue service worked more than disgustingly. A huge number of sailors did not survive this night, being devoured by sharks. The case of the five Sullivan brothers who served as volunteers on the Juneau became unpleasantly known and they all died. Two - in a few days, without waiting for help.

The last ship to die in this battle was the Hiei. What happened to the battle cruiser is hard to say. For the entire battle, it was hit by a single 203-mm shell and more than a hundred destroyer shells, that is, 127-mm. Apparently, communication and control were out of order. Only this can explain the fact that the ship could not normally fight off the rather sluggish attacks of American aircraft.


But in fact "Hiei" was thrown by Admiral Abe to be torn apart. The raids on the crawling Hiei continued all day. The escort destroyers did everything they could, but in the end the battle cruiser sank on the night of November 14.

6: 3 in favor of the Japanese. Dot? No.

Who has won?

The Japanese seem to have won the battle. Two light cruisers and four destroyers at the bottom, two heavy cruisers and three destroyers were under repair for a long time. In fact, only the cruiser Helena and the destroyer Fletcher remained intact for the Americans.

The Japanese lost a battle cruiser (later) and two destroyers. And they really had one more battle cruiser, a light cruiser and 11 destroyers to complete their tasks, 3 of which did not participate in the battle at all.

So who won the battle?

Definitely Americans. Even having lost so many ships, they were able to disrupt the main task: to neutralize Guadalcanal's aviation. And that was exactly what Admiral Abe's ships were supposed to do: to blow Henderson Field to dust. And not a single shot was fired at the airfield.

In "gratitude" for this, it was the pilots from this airfield that sank the "Hiei".

In general, Admiral Abe did everything to completely spoil the victory. Could he go to command any other ship in the squad, since Hiei had communication problems? I could. Nagara would be fine. It would have been possible for "Kirishima" to wait, especially since Abe later called a cruiser to drag "Hieya".

Could Henderson Field be plowed up with the remaining ammunition from the ships before dawn? Easy. 66 127mm barrels from Japanese destroyers would have made it very easy. Plus another 18 barrels of 152-mm "Nagara" and "Hieya", and 8 barrels of 356-mm ...


But Abe did not do this. Why is a matter of questions. Nothing hindered him in this, and there was time. The night battle ended at half past three in the morning, and there was more than enough time before dawn.

And even if we simply plowed the runways of the airfield, damaging or destroying some of the hundreds of aircraft based there, the Hiei would have survived and did not need to be rescued.

But apparently, Admiral Abe was enough to feel like a winner. Or, on the contrary, he was such a coward that the very thought of dawn and American planes made him flee the battlefield.

In any case, Abe did not fulfill the duties assigned to him by the order. He decided to be content with a seemingly small victory, losing in the end in a big way.

He did not dare to attack the airfield, he gave the Hiei to the Americans to be torn apart ... The admiral turned out to be so-so. Stupid and cowardly. No wonder Abe was removed from command of the ships by Yamamoto himself and in March 1943 he was generally dismissed. True, the admiral did not arrange hara-kiri for himself, he preferred to die quietly and calmly in 1949 himself.

But in fact, it was thanks to Abe's toothless actions that the Japanese landing on Guadalcanal did not take place. More precisely, it was postponed, but still ended in failure.

But here I would like to say a few warm words about the Japanese sailors.


They didn't have radars on the ships. No one. And, unlike the Americans, who perfectly (or almost perfectly) saw the Japanese on radar screens and were nominally ready to meet the enemy, the Japanese sailors improvised. Demonstrating a much higher combat skill.

Even the fact that at the beginning of the battle Admiral Abe turned on the searchlights on his Hiei, illuminating the targets of the entire squadron and thereby causing fire on his ship - this is worthy of respect and understanding, as well as the actions of the commander of the Akatsuki destroyer, Captain Osama Takasuke, the ship which was also flooded with light by an enemy detachment, not possessing the armor and durability of a battle cruiser.

The Japanese fired more accurately, used torpedoes better, but all this was crossed out by the helplessness of the command. So, like the previous battle at Savo Island, with a seemingly clear advantage, the victory was completely lost.

Japan had no luck with admirals. Or is Friday the 13th not that day after all?
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  1. Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 05: 39
    10
    Really, I thought, for the third time it will do without fakapov with a photo?

    No, again Helena SA-75 of the "Baltimore" type in 42.

    The hand of the master.
    1. novel66
      novel66 12 January 2021 07: 19
      0
      I am ashamed to ask, being not so knowledgeable, and what is wrong, otherwise it is not clear
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 12 January 2021 08: 01
        12
        Here is a photo of the right "Heleny" - CL-50 (photo dated July 1, 1942)




        By the way, the photo of "San Francisco" was also not chosen very well, because it shows the ship after repair and modernization after the battle in question. He rather looked like this during the fight.
        1. novel66
          novel66 12 January 2021 08: 18
          +3
          thanks exhaustively hi
          1. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 02
            10
            Quote: novel xnumx
            thanks exhaustively

            You are joking?
            If you want a normal exhaustive scientific pop, then read Morison's "The Struggle for Guadalcanal", even in the original, even in the excellent translation of A. Sick.
            They are on the net.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 11: 28
              +1
              This is a response to Konstanty's post with pictures that you are so evil.
            2. Rakovor
              Rakovor 12 January 2021 13: 19
              +3
              Sherman can still be read, "The War in the Pacific", there is also a lot written about Guadalcanal.
              1. Macsen_wledig
                Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 13: 31
                +3
                Quote: Rakovor
                Sherman can still be read, "The War in the Pacific", there is also a lot written about Guadalcanal.

                Sherman is secondary and as a narrator he is not very ...
                1. Rurikovich
                  Rurikovich 12 January 2021 16: 00
                  +3
                  Sherman is interesting as a direct participant in the events. I also have it on the shelf. smile
            3. Constanty
              Constanty 12 January 2021 15: 50
              +1
              Rather, it was about the USS Helena - the question of the CL-50 instead of the incorrectly shown CA-75.
        2. bubalik
          bubalik 12 January 2021 13: 27
          +5
          photo "San Francisco"

          ,,, photo in an article dated October 13, 1944.
          After the battle.
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 10: 50
        11
        The fifth photo below shows a cruiser with clearly visible radars and tactical number 75. This is a post-war photo of the Baltimore-class USS Helena, which was adopted by the Navy on September 4, 45.

        The Brooklyn-class light cruiser of the same name participated in the events around Guadalcanal, photo posted by Konstanty. The author already made the same mistake when he wrote about the death of the USS Wasp (CV-7), which was pointed out to him in the comments.
      3. unknown
        unknown 17 January 2021 09: 12
        0
        Different types of ships, and even different classes.
        The Helena in this battle is a Brooklyn-class light cruiser class.
        And in the photo in the article, a ship of the type "Baltimore, class heavy cruisers."
  2. kig
    kig 12 January 2021 07: 53
    +7
    The Wiki article on this topic is much more informative. A it - retelling in your own words
  3. Constanty
    Constanty 12 January 2021 08: 13
    12
    For the entire battle, it was hit by a single 203-mm shell and more than a hundred destroyer shells, that is, 127-mm. Apparently, communication and control were out of order. Only this can explain the fact that the ship could not normally fight off the rather sluggish attacks of American aircraft.


    I don’t know where the author got the information about only one hit from a 203 mm projectile. It is generally accepted that 13 such shells hit Hiei (although information about 20-28 hits can be found). On the other hand, the only projectile from San Francisco that destroyed the Hiei steering engine was the deciding factor - but it was not the only projectile of this caliber that hit the Japanese ship.
  4. Ros 56
    Ros 56 12 January 2021 08: 40
    0
    Just a couple of days ago I watched 10 episodes about the US Marines on this topic. Yes, they tore each other's throats with the Japanese for these islands, yes, they died. Dirt and death, but without belittling their merits, I must say: all this is compared with Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk Bulge, Rzhev and other battles, in terms of the intensity of events, in duration, in losses incurred, in self-sacrifice and stamina, so-so, childish babble ... And this is all without taking into account the material supply.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 11: 05
      14
      Some pitiful babble.

      1. If you are fighting with a division with tanks against a reinforced battalion with light weapons, and you still need self-sacrifice and stamina, and even losses like on the Nevsky Piglet - there is nothing to be proud of.
      2. How many Soviet tank brigades do you think are shown in this photo?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 January 2021 11: 59
        +7
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        2. How many Soviet tank brigades do you think are shown in this photo?

        You would have brought a photo of all the "taffy" TF. 38 that way 1945 - there are all Soviet armored vehicles together with the air force of the army. smile
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 12: 49
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          You would still have a photo of all the "taffy" TF. 38 years that way 1945 brought

          )))
          Not found
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 14 January 2021 17: 28
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            )))
            Not found

            Campaign, TF.38 / 58 just did not fit into the frame. smile
            Nearest Applicable: Ulithi Atoll, March 1945

            And limes - in the same place.
      2. Andrew Matseevsky
        Andrew Matseevsky 17 January 2021 06: 03
        +1
        Yes, I like to remind the leavened patriots that four German linocra are about eight thousand tanks. and naturally, but it would be to ask a question, how would things have developed on the Eastern Front in 41, if Great Britain had not taken away the huge resources of the Third Reich? If it were not for the pitiful 3200-3400 tanks would have turned out to be against the USSR, and ten or eleven thousand? Well, in general, the colossal losses of the USSR are something to be ashamed of and not to sing that we were fighting in earnest and there (in the West, the Mediterranean, in the Pacific Ocean) there was some kind of not real war.
        1. unknown
          unknown 17 January 2021 09: 15
          +1
          In the West, the war was not real.
          The main front of WWII is the Eastern.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 17 January 2021 12: 36
            0
            The Eastern Front is with Japan, or what? You have some kind of Chinese-centric understanding of history.
        2. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 17 January 2021 12: 46
          0
          Quote: Andrew Matseevsky
          Yes, I like to remind the leavened patriots that four German linocra are about eight thousand tanks. and naturally, but it would be to ask a question, how would things have developed on the Eastern Front in 41, if Great Britain had not taken away the huge resources of the Third Reich?

          The typical spherical historian in a vacuum ... laughing
          Do you even know that until the end of 1937 Germany was planning a war with France, and from the end of 1938 Britain was added to the list?
          Remind you of when an underrated Austrian artist gave the order to prepare the Otto plan?
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 January 2021 11: 31
      12
      Quote: Ros 56
      Yes, they tore each other's throats with the Japanese for these islands, yes, they died. Dirt and death, but without detracting from their merits, I must say: all this is compared with Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk Bulge, Rzhev and other battles, in terms of the intensity of events, in duration, in losses incurred, in self-sacrifice and stamina, so-so, childish babble ...

      ... there was a rather original conversation with Wrangel after his remarks about robberies, in which all corps were accused, except for the 2nd, which I mentioned above. I spoke to him about the military awards of the ranks of my corps. He interrupted this conversation with the words: “Well, what can I say about awards! After all, your losses are negligible; the 1st and 3rd corps have big losses, but there is no need to talk about your corps. " I could only answer that I punish my command personnel for heavy losses in units, and if heavy losses are not accidental, but a constant phenomenon, then I expel the officers from their posts for their inability to lead troops into battle. Victory must be achieved "with little blood", for this we receive a military education.
      This original, not to say - criminal, view of the large losses of units as a proof of their prowess is deeply rooted in our old army. It is necessary to fight with such a view, and constant (I emphasize that not accidental, which is always possible, especially with modern technology) large losses should indicate the inability of the commander to lead troops, i.e. about his unsuitability for the position.
      © Slashchev
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 12: 58
        -1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        © Slashchev

        It is not out of place to recall that battles in the style of the Eastern Front, monstrously bloody and monstrously senseless - the main of them was the Hürtgen Forest - also happened, but the partners tried to forget about them like a nightmare. Instead of sticking their heroism into every crack.
        1. unknown
          unknown 17 January 2021 09: 16
          -1
          You are wrong. They pop. Moreover, they are not pushing heroism, trying to pass it off as heroism.
    3. Engineer
      Engineer 12 January 2021 11: 41
      +8
      Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk Bulge, Rzhev and other battles, in terms of the intensity of events, in duration, in losses incurred, in self-sacrifice and resilience, so-so, childish babble.

      From the above, Leningrad, Rzhev, the southern face of the Kursk ledge is a national shame about which it is better to keep quiet
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 January 2021 12: 30
        +7
        Quote: Engineer
        From the above, Leningrad, Rzhev, the southern face of the Kursk ledge is a national shame about which it is better to keep quiet

        And I did not understand the sob of this comrade - why the hell did he bring Stalingrad here together with Rzhev and KD ?? Why is this demonstration of leavened patriotism? According to what logic does he compare the Pacific theater of operations with the Eastern Front? Nonsense.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 12 January 2021 12: 38
          14
          Not nonsense, but classic Runet
          "We were the ones who were dying, and they were chilling or playing in the second league."
          "Russian-Soviet heroism is the most persistent, sacrificial and standard, the rest is so-so"
          1. unknown
            unknown 17 January 2021 09: 23
            -2
            They were really cool.
            Great Britain and the USA in total released about forty-five thousand heavy bombers. And the result?
            Still, after TWENTY-FIVE sorties, the crew of the American heavy bomber ended the war and went home.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 17 January 2021 12: 45
              +4
              Quote: ignoto
              And the result?

              What's the result?
              Quote: ignoto
              after TWENTY-FIVE combat sorties, the crew of the American heavy bomber ended the war and went home

              Yes? Well, as a rule, Soviet pilots did not make 25 sorties at all.
              Quote: ignoto
              And Romania, with a population of only 20 million people, irrevocably lost 1 million

              China generally writes about 40 million. Is this some kind of achievement?
              Quote: ignoto
              And which front is the main one?

              According to your account of the butcher - the sphere of co-prosperity, of course, at least 50 million were cut out there, if you add up all the applications.
              Quote: ignoto
              The Great October Socialist Revolution ".
              Organized and funded from the USA

              What fellow Americans! Everywhere in time, who would have thought!
              Quote: ignoto
              Englishmen a similar situation with "Ripals" and "Rhinaun"

              Not similar. The British AV went for the LC, and not vice versa.
            2. Macsen_wledig
              Macsen_wledig 17 January 2021 12: 51
              0
              Quote: ignoto
              Still, after TWENTY-FIVE sorties, the crew of the American heavy bomber ended the war and went home.

              True, not only everyone survived ... :)
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 12 January 2021 16: 34
          -2
          Hailushki, Colleague.
          "It is sinful to laugh at sick people" (c)
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 January 2021 16: 42
            -2
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Hailushki, Colleague.

            Hi-bang, Kostya)

            Quote: Sea Cat
            "It is sinful to laugh at sick people" (c)


            Ehm ...

            "- This, excuse me, is some Kheraskov!
            - Kostya, just don't swear! "(C)
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 13: 02
        -7
        Yes, and there are questions about Stalingrad, to put it mildly. From a military point of view, the game was lost, saved on a fort.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 12 January 2021 13: 15
          14
          Questions are always and everywhere. Especially with inquisitive minds like yours laughing
          But according to Stalingrad, at least "the result is on the scoreboard." And this is the main thing
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 13: 16
            -3
            Yes, they ripped out Romanians like sidor goats.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 12 January 2021 13: 22
              +8
              One word, Romanians (c)
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 13: 27
                -6
                Is it 6A anyway? Are you directing the battles in Stalingrad of the Red Army as a plus?

                However, I think it is better to discuss this on some more suitable occasion.
              2. unknown
                unknown 17 January 2021 09: 30
                +1
                There are enough such photos of prisoners on each side. Germans, Russians, British, Americans, Japanese.
                The irrecoverable losses of Romania are greater than the total irrecoverable losses of the British Empire, the United States and Hungary.
                By the way, Hungary, with a population of only 9 million people, has irrevocably lost more than the United States or Great Britain.
            2. unknown
              unknown 17 January 2021 09: 27
              +1
              How did you think that Germany was not lucky with the allies?
              They had less material resources, but they gave more.
              Great Britain, or rather the Empire (with all colonies) irrevocably lost 380 thousand.
              USA -417 thousand. And Romania, with a population of only 20 million people, irrevocably lost 1 million 200 thousand. And who fought? And which front is the main one?
      3. Usher
        Usher 14 January 2021 04: 38
        -2
        Quote: Engineer
        Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk Bulge, Rzhev and other battles, in terms of the intensity of events, in duration, in losses incurred, in self-sacrifice and resilience, so-so, childish babble.

        From the above, Leningrad, Rzhev, the southern face of the Kursk ledge is a national shame about which it is better to keep quiet

        shame is you, in your stupid words.
      4. unknown
        unknown 17 January 2021 09: 20
        -2
        National disgrace is the so-called “Great October Socialist Revolution”.
        Organized and funded from the USA. However, the local "elite" is good too. They took out the assets and nullified social obligations to the people. The country, in fact, was left without an elite.
        And to get the first generation of the elite, you need at least ninety years. The USSR did not have this time. Hence all the problems.
  5. Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 12 January 2021 09: 27
    +6
    The style of presentation of the article is for young gopniks. Better to read Pereslegin's "Pacific Premiere".
    1. lucul
      lucul 12 January 2021 10: 29
      +9
      The style of presentation of the article is for young gopniks. Better to read Pereslegin's "Pacific Premiere".

      But clearer than dry academic language.
      I don't understand the battle at all - 2 Congo-class cruisers (356mm guns) could not cope with American cardboard cruisers with 203mm guns? In firepower, the Japanese advantage was overwhelming. Did a 356mm shell hit American cruisers at least once?
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 12 January 2021 10: 45
        +7
        The fight went NIGHT wink Aviation makes the weather during the day, so the Japanese relied on the night actions that they trained. Although the presence of radars gave the Americans a head start in information content on the battlefield. Only they still had to be used wisely ... Because the results of night skirmishes are not so clear-cut. request
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 January 2021 11: 40
          -6
          Quote: Rurikovich
          the Japanese relied on the nighttime activities that they trained.

          They trained badly if Abe ordered Nishida to turn on the searchlights and turn Hiei into a target.
          1. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 48
            10
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            They trained badly if Abe ordered Nishida to turn on the searchlights and turn Hiei into a target.

            In fact, the use of searchlights in night combat is a fighting technique that the Japanese considered essential in night combat.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 January 2021 13: 43
              +1
              Quote: Macsen_Wledig
              In fact, the use of searchlights in night combat is a fighting technique that the Japanese considered essential in night combat.

              Yes, I don’t mind) The instruction of 1934 is great, no words, but wasn’t it better to use lighting shells? The exchange turned out to be a stalemate - Hiei, of course, "found" Atlanta with searchlights, but he himself got hit by torpedoes and hammering from all the barrels (even FOR) from the destroyers. By the way, Abe and Nishida were wounded precisely from anti-aircraft guns. And so the chief of staff was killed.
              Here Nagara did not turn on the searchlights, but illuminated the scene with shells - and did not receive a single damage.
              Well, as for the "training" - yes, the skill is good, in the night "searchlight" battle on August 9 at Savo Mikawa drowned four cruisers without losing his own, well done) Well, Abe was not lucky with this tactic.
        2. saigon
          saigon 13 January 2021 13: 04
          +1
          Somewhere it came across that the night binoculars from the Japanese were excellent and about training the eyes of pilots and signalmen of the fleet to the extent that they could see the stars on a not sunny day (really or not, I'm not sure)
      2. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 07
        +3
        Quote: lucul
        But clearer than dry academic language.

        Believe it or not, I didn't understand a damn thing about this article, although I'm familiar with many documentary sources on Guadalcanal ...
      3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 January 2021 11: 37
        +3
        Quote: lucul
        Did a 356mm shell hit American cruisers at least once?

        Yes.
        San Francisco - 5 main battery shells from Hiei and 7 from Kirishima.
        Well, Hiei hit Atlanta with the first salvo.
      4. unknown
        unknown 17 January 2021 09: 45
        0
        1. Why with "cardboard"? "Portland" belonged to the "Portland" class, "loaded" to "Washington" standard cruisers, with an increase in the mass of booking. The San Francisco was of the New Orleans class, the most protected type of American pre-war cruiser.
        2. The guns of heavy cruisers are very powerful systems. The American armor-piercing projectile Mk 19 at a distance of 9000 yards (8230 meters) pierced 254 mm, and 203 mm the side armor of the Congo-class cruisers pierced from 11340 meters.
        1. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 17 January 2021 12: 52
          0
          Quote: ignoto
          The San Francisco was of the New Orleans class, the most protected type of American pre-war cruiser.

          The most protected yet “Wichita” ...
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 12 January 2021 11: 54
      +3
      Quote: Dr. Evil
      The style of presentation of the article is for young gopniks. Better to read Pereslegin's "Pacific Premiere".

      Then it's better M.E. Morozov, E.A.Granovskiy, Guadalcanal!.
      Pereslegin is a well-known lover of thinking out and explaining, adjusting facts to fit his theory. smile
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 58
        +4
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Then it's better Morozov M.E., Granovsky E.A. Guadalcanal !.

        Then it is better to Morison (for initial acquaintance with the topic) and American reports and reports. :)
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 12 January 2021 12: 14
          +3
          Quote: Macsen_Wledig
          Then it is better to Morison (for initial acquaintance with the topic) and American reports and reports. :)

          Uh-huh ... on the same ibiblio.org in the official reviews and works on Guadalcanal there are so many tasty things - starting with the description of the hellish mess in 1 DMP during preparation and during landing on the island. smile
      2. saigon
        saigon 13 January 2021 13: 05
        +1
        Suliga is also very good, especially the cards.
        1. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 13 January 2021 16: 33
          +1
          Quote: saigon
          Suliga is also very good, especially the cards.

          So the sources were good ... :)
  6. BAI
    BAI 12 January 2021 09: 37
    +4
    Plus in this confusion he planted a torpedo in the engine room of the cruiser.

    Plus - who is this?
  7. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 12 January 2021 10: 18
    10
    Plus only because, despite the already traditional jambs, it will be interesting to read to uninformed people. smile
    Konstanty has already pointed out the discrepancy between the photograph of the declared "Helena". The author stubbornly puts into the article a later, "Baltimore" version.
    Further. All Japanese light cruisers built between the two wars carried 140mm guns. Only on the "Agano" class cruisers that entered service in 42, the yapps returned to 152mm guns. I understand that the author is too lazy to indicate more precise nuances of the ships' performance characteristics, but still. The article is not fictional request
    It is clear that "Hiei" received a hefty portion of shells in this battle, but to say that ONLY one 8 "shell hit, thereby making the Americans outright smears not aesthetically pleasing. Yes, the destruction of the tiller compartment by a successful hit actually sentenced" Hiei ", but these are nuances devices of the ship itself, which was built in the days of WWI on the basis of the English vicious concept, where protection was sacrificed for speed and weapons.
    Like the Bismarck, the Hiei lost control. But according to many sources, he received more than a dozen 203mm shells. Including 127mm mass from destroyers. You can write an entire article about successful hits that decided the fate of many ships and influenced some battles ...
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 05
      12
      Quote: Rurikovich
      It is clear that "Hiei" received a hefty portion of shells in this battle, but to say that ONLY one 8 "shell hit, thus making the Americans outright smears is not aesthetically pleasing.

      I think the point is this: in the main sources it is believed that the "point" in the career of "Hiei" was put by the 8 "shell from" San Francisco ", which disabled the steering gear of the battle cruiser.
      And, it seems to me that the author, as usual, simply did not understand or did not understand what kind of ONE shell it was ... :)
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 12 January 2021 11: 09
        +4
        I agree completely. smile
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 11: 11
      +6
      Quote: Rurikovich
      but these are the nuances of the structure of the ship itself, which was built in the days of WWI on the basis of the English vicious concept, where protection was sacrificed to speed and weapons.

      Of course, the concept is not without its drawbacks, but you are still more careful. Before WWI, the British could not have dreamed of a night battle in tightness at a pistol distance in the performance of a battle cruiser and in a nightmare. Congo is a cheerful grandfather, he entered service before Sevastopol, after all.
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 17
        +6
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Congo is a cheerful grandfather, he entered service before Sevastopol, after all.

        And who is to blame for the Russian shipbuilders that the ship, which was laid down two years later, entered service a year and a half earlier? :)
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 11: 26
          0
          )))
          Well, I didn't want to kick Seva this time. It's just that the concept is flawed - it's still not for this situation.

          By the way, it’s funny to compare the close night combat with cruisers performed by the Japanese and close night combat with cruisers performed by the British a year and a half earlier.

          I'm talking about Matapan))))
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 12 January 2021 11: 59
            +3
            Cherry nine. There are no parallels ... Mikawa's opponent was comparable, and that the Americans themselves asked ... pumped the Japanese, that is their problem. At Matapan, the English LINCORS, which had radars, simply shot down the Italian cruisers, who were not going to fight at night.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 12: 47
              +4
              Quote: Rurikovich
              No parallels ...

              )))
              Yes, I am more or less aware of the circumstances, thanks))).

              It is clear that the Americans would have been better - like themselves in 44 - the Japanese would not have gone anywhere, and without any pimple. Mines, torpedo boats, and submarine ambushes would solve the issue reliably and without unnecessary heroism.
            2. Macsen_wledig
              Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 12: 56
              +5
              Quote: Rurikovich
              At Matapan, the English LINCORS, which had radars, simply shot down the Italian cruisers, who were not going to fight at night.

              It's actually a legend. :)
              Of the three British LKs, the only radar was on the Valiant and it was the OVTs type 279 radar.
              The GC did not provide fire control. Through full-scale experiments, the British found that the detection range of a battleship-class surface target is approx. 70 cab. for bearing errors, dol 20 degrees.
              1. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 12 January 2021 14: 34
                +2
                Maxim, this is better than nothing. Quietly approaching the distance of a direct shot "seeing" the enemy is worth a lot. smile
                1. Macsen_wledig
                  Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 14: 48
                  +3
                  Quote: Rurikovich
                  Maxim, this is better than nothing. Quietly approaching the distance of a direct shot "seeing" the enemy is worth a lot. smile

                  It's just that Cunningham has VERY strong nerves: suddenly find a large ship 60 cables away from him, decide that it is "Littorio" and continue moving forward to a distance of 4 miles ... yes. It's worth a lot.
                  Moreover, ABC was lucky: he did not see the Italian EMs, which for some reason did not do anything after the British opened fire.
                  1. Rurikovich
                    Rurikovich 12 January 2021 16: 07
                    0
                    Well, the Italians are still fighters at sea, and ABC, having 3 battleships, in any case, would go to a rapprochement. All the same, you don't run around for fast-footed pasta during the day. smile
                    1. unknown
                      unknown 17 January 2021 09: 50
                      0
                      Italians are normal fighters at sea. They fought at sea both in the First World War and in the Second. In the second, with the main task: supplying troops in Africa, they coped, despite the losses. These are the French - they are still warriors. The expression that they are better able to build ships than to fight on them is, in fact, about the French.
                      1. Macsen_wledig
                        Macsen_wledig 17 January 2021 12: 54
                        0
                        Quote: ignoto
                        Secondly, with the main task: supplying troops in Africa, they coped, despite the losses.

                        If it weren't for the German PLs, the question would be VERY open ... :)
      2. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 12 January 2021 11: 41
        +1
        So this is the problem of the Japanese wink It is clear that these ships ended up there not because of the good life, but still ... Now I would say - read the instructions for use. And you shouldn't be so surprised that the ship, designed for long-range combat by its concept, was shot at pistol distance with a medium caliber and disabled due to weak armor. smile
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 12 January 2021 12: 07
          +4
          the Americans with this fight (Friday, the 13th) largely rehabilitated themselves for Savo.

          And you shouldn't be so surprised that the ship, designed for long-range combat by its concept, was shot at pistol distance with a medium caliber and disabled due to weak armor.

          The Japanese made good use of the Congo in their night dumps. Losing is not too bad, but be healthy firepower. There were practically no zones of free maneuvering in battle against American battleships. Therefore, enhancing cruising forces is a natural role.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 13: 09
            +3
            Quote: Engineer
            Losing is not too bad, but be healthy firepower. There were practically no zones of free maneuvering in battle against American battleships.

            Some strange argument. As if Iso and Fuso with these zones were dramatically better. But only Congo could walk with AB.

            Glorious ships, perfectly fit into the new circumstances.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 12 January 2021 13: 13
              +1
              Iso and Fuso are much better.
              Therefore, the Japanese reasoned that for linear squadron battles "all for all" are not suitable.
              But in the realities of the battle, it turned out to be more important to support the cruisers and accompany the AB. And then Congo to the court.
              The ships are quite good.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 12 January 2021 13: 17
                0
                Quote: Engineer
                The ships are quite good.

                Although English
                tongue
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 12 January 2021 13: 20
                  +3
                  I respect Liza very much. The last capital is a thorn "excellently" from them.
            2. unknown
              unknown 17 January 2021 09: 55
              0
              A question of speed. The British have a similar situation with "Ripals" and "Rhynown".
        2. unknown
          unknown 17 January 2021 09: 54
          0
          In fact, the Congo-class ships were used as heavy cruisers.
          Of the Japanese battleships, they were the most useful. In a post-mortem, the Japanese should have continued the construction of this particular type, instead of more armed, better armored, but less speedy ships of the Fuso and Hyuga types. An additional four "Congo" would obviously not hurt the Japanese.
    3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 January 2021 14: 03
      +2
      Quote: Rurikovich
      which was built during WWI on the basis of the English vicious concept

      So grandfather, like, 7 years spent on modernization, the very last from the Congo. He was also thickened in intimate places)
  8. antivirus
    antivirus 12 January 2021 10: 43
    +2
    In any case, Abe did not fulfill the duties assigned to him by the order. He decided to be content with a seemingly small victory, losing in the end in a big way.


    ---- there was no deputy at the admiral - in political matters.
    --- there was no infantry deputy for the landing - for podzuzhivaniya "break through and shoot at the airfield, then throw out part of the landing" - as on Malaya Zemlya.
    ---- The sea soul amused the ego and calmed down.
    1. Alex013
      Alex013 12 January 2021 16: 19
      +1
      I agree, I won the battle, I lost the battle. Or maybe Abe's injury and the loss of the headquarters are the main reason.

      "... The Laffey went 20 feet from the Hiei so that they almost collided. The Hiei could not use its artillery against the Laffey due to the higher side, but the Laffey's guns were able to hit a heavy damage to the superstructure and the captain's bridge, wounding Admiral Abe, and killing his chief of staff .... "
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 12 January 2021 16: 58
        0
        the twilight genius of the Deutschlands was discussed, but was there a confrontation in the Yap-MO? SV-Aviation-Fleet? Maybe those "eccentrics with rifles and in windings" naval just wanted to punish (substitute on the islands)?
        "highly organized" Germans have already been "illuminated" here. and yapi?
      2. unknown
        unknown 17 January 2021 10: 02
        +1
        The main reason is Japanese.
        There is such an interesting discipline - psycholinguistics.
        Examines the relationship between thinking and language.
        Considers a language as an operating system.
        The Japanese are out of luck with their "operating system".
        The language is not at all adapted to modern, dynamic warfare.
        The Japanese succeeded when they acted according to a predetermined plan.
        But, any deviation from the plan, any non-standard situation unsettled them.
        Of course, the Japanese also had commanders who perfectly coped with non-standard situations, but this is rather an exception to the rule.
  9. Macsen_wledig
    Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 11: 11
    12
    The author could give a couple of absolutely unclassified schemes ...

    1. Engineer
      Engineer 12 January 2021 11: 50
      +5
      Great stuff.
      It turns out that the Yapam had 5-10 miles to traverse Cape Lunga. And there everyone can shoot at Henderson airfield, including destroyers.
      The inexplicable departure of the Yaps.
    2. unknown
      unknown 17 January 2021 10: 03
      0
      And in the previous article - schemes of damage to American cruisers.
  10. Catfish
    Catfish 12 January 2021 12: 42
    0
    Roman, thanks for the article hi , although the story has long been known, it was interesting to read, the presentation is captivating. drinks

    Or is Friday the 13th not that day after all?


    And for Japan, this whole war is a solid Friday and the thirteenth -
    "There is no calendar on the damned island,
    seen on Monday, their mother gave birth. "(c) laughing

    They should remember the writer Thomas Lawson, his book "Friday the 13th" and the only seven-masted schooner in the world named after this writer. The schooner "Thomas Lawson" was lost in a storm on the reefs of the Isles of Scilly on Friday, December 13, 1907. request
  11. iouris
    iouris 12 January 2021 13: 11
    +3
    Quote: "... but Helena, who was hanging out in the dark nearby, intervened ..." End of quote.
    It seems to me that this is called "profanity", which has signs of linguistic sabotage directed against the state language of the Russian Federation (Yes, Karl!). Such acts should be punishable.
  12. bubalik
    bubalik 12 January 2021 13: 45
    11
    drove a torpedo into the stern of a heavy cruiser.



  13. bubalik
    bubalik 12 January 2021 14: 22
    +8
    A huge number of sailors did not survive this night, being devoured by sharks. The case of the five Sullivan brothers who served as volunteers on the Juneau became unpleasantly known and they all died. Two - a few days later, without waiting for help.

    ,,, only eight days after the sinking ten survivors were found by a PBY Catalina search aircraft and retrieved from the water.
    ,,, "Saving Private Ryan", many believe that the story told in it is completely fictional. An entire unit of American soldiers is dying in order to save and return to their homeland a soldier, all of whose brothers were killed in battle.
    Nevertheless, such a practice did exist in the American army. The so-called "last man standing" policy was introduced after the high-profile story of the Sullivan brothers.
    If several relatives died in the family at the front, the survivors had to be immediately evacuated from the front line. Also, within the framework of this policy, it was forbidden to call anyone to serve from families who had already lost their sons at the front.

    In 1944, four Borgstrom brothers were killed in the American army within a few months. The fifth was demobilized after that, and the sixth was not called up.

    American soldier Henry Butehorn was sent home in 1945 after it became known that one of his brothers was killed in France, and the other in the Pacific.
  14. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 12 January 2021 15: 16
    +4
    It was, by the way, the largest battle of surface ships
    in recent history.
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 12 January 2021 15: 53
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      It was, by the way, the largest battle of surface ships
      in recent history.

      Why is the battle in the Surigao Strait worse?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  15. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 12 January 2021 21: 49
    -3
    here it is another proof of the senselessness of large surface ships vulnerable to aircraft, enemy submarines, and a flock of small ships
    1. DWG1905
      DWG1905 13 January 2021 16: 45
      +1
      Thanks to the author, it is very interesting and the style is lively. Regarding the losses of "iron", before the war, we estimated the cost, labor intensity and material consumption and came to the conclusion one heavy cruiser = 600 KV tanks. Therefore, you can count the losses of the parties in tanks, this is probably the whole Vistula-Oder operation. Moreover, half of the tanks can be repaired, the other for spare parts. And if the ship sank, then that one. In general, the more technologically advanced the combat operations, the higher the intensity of losses. Here, by the way, the answer to the question of why the Japanese ground forces were so weak, the resources were not enough for everything.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 13 January 2021 17: 19
        -2
        on land they abandoned armored trains in favor of tanks, but the fleet did not, and this is a mistake. Plus, tanks can be hidden, and submarines can be hidden, and the surface ship is a visible and hitable target for everyone, so why are they? their functions are auxiliary ASW, coastal under the protection of coastal means, therefore they do not need a lot and everything is no more than a frigate
        1. Usher
          Usher 14 January 2021 04: 45
          -4
          Quote: vladimir1155
          on land they abandoned armored trains in favor of tanks, but the fleet did not, and this is a mistake. Plus, tanks can be hidden, and submarines can be hidden, and the surface ship is a visible and hitable target for everyone, so why are they? their functions are auxiliary ASW, coastal under the protection of coastal means, therefore they do not need a lot and everything is no more than a frigate

          I wonder why they build warships in general?
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 14 January 2021 08: 49
            -2
            Quote: Usher
            why are warships built at all

            1 nuclear strike by the forces of SSBNs and nuclear submarines with cruise missiles 2 ensuring the exit of SSNs from bases and return = control of the area within a radius of 3000 km from the base 3 in peacetime, convoys, protection of fishing, presence and tracking of partner ships
            1. Usher
              Usher 16 January 2021 17: 47
              -4
              and the surface ship is a visible and hitable target for everyone, so why are they?
              Do you have a split personality?
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 16 January 2021 23: 52
                -1
                this is your split, you do not need large surface ships, you do not need ships of rank 1 and 2 in the closed seas. And around the bases of nuclear submarines, frigates and PLO corvettes are needed.
                1. Usher
                  Usher 17 January 2021 02: 42
                  0
                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  this is your split, you do not need large surface ships, you do not need ships of rank 1 and 2 in the closed seas. And around the bases of nuclear submarines, frigates and PLO corvettes are needed.

                  What do you translate the arrows here, you have. A child or what? You personally and specifically said
                  and the surface ship is a visible and hitable target for everyone, so why are they?
                  ... Frigate and Corvette not a surface ship? Where do you see that we are building Cruisers and Aircraft Carriers? Some Corvettes entered service and a trifle. What are you talking about a blizzard here?
                  1. Vladimir1155
                    Vladimir1155 17 January 2021 08: 04
                    0
                    build two missile ships of 40000 tons each, contain Kuzyu, they want super-battleships disguised as destroyers
  16. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 13 January 2021 17: 44
    +1
    Don't read Skomorokhov, read the monograph "Guadalcanal" by Morozov and Granovsky.
  17. Ham
    Ham 13 January 2021 17: 50
    +1
    we can say that the villainous fate took revenge on the Japanese for the Russian-Japanese war ...
    Well, apart from Yamomoto, they did not have intelligent and initiative admirals! as if the spirits of Rozhdestvensky and witgeft had taken over the Japanese naval commanders! so many battles lost due to indecision (to say the least) of the Japanese admirals, in which the Japanese had to win ...
    and the death of Yamomoto can be compared to the death of Makarov at Port Arthur - after that, only horror without end ...
    1. unknown
      unknown 17 January 2021 10: 12
      0
      The question is, was the Russo-Japanese War really a Russo-Japanese War?
      1. Why did Russia build such a huge and well-equipped commercial port in Dalniy?
      With whom and what were you going to trade with?
      2. The Japanese are even more interesting. Japanese story-fake. Decommissioned from English.
      The real history of Japan begins in the middle of the nineteenth century, when the British, Dutch, French and Americans began to bring Polynesians to the four southern islands of the Kuril ridge. How in such a short time did you manage to create a nation, an elite, a language, teach the people this language? Japanese is one of the most difficult languages, even now the Japanese learn it until they reach the age of thirty.
  18. fiberboard
    fiberboard 18 January 2021 19: 29
    0
    But they were lucky with the admirals in 1904-1905.