Military Review

Steel against the atom. The last victories of the red emperor

166
Steel against the atom. The last victories of the red emperor
Tanks IS-2 before entering Red Square during the Victory Parade. June 24, 1945.


The threat of a new disaster


Our country lay in ruins after a bloody and fierce battle with the Third Reich. The western regions of the USSR were completely destroyed and devastated. Three out of four industrial districts were badly affected. Thousands of settlements have disappeared from the face of the earth. Many large cities in Russia such as Minsk, Stalingrad, Sevastopol and Kiev were badly destroyed. The union suffered colossal cultural and material losses. Millions of people died, others were injured, crippled, left without relatives, friends and parents. People had to huddle in dugouts, shacks and barracks until the destroyed ones were restored, new housing was built. In addition, it was necessary to crush the last hotbeds of the war - the Bandera in Western Ukraine, the "forest brothers" in the Baltic states. Fight the bandits who have multiplied during the war.

In the West, it was believed that Russia would collapse already during the war with Nazi Germany. Then they expected the USSR to recover for a very long time after the war. By all objective indicators, the United States should remain the only superpower on the planet. There was no war on their territory. The main competitors in Europe and Asia - Germany and Japan - collapsed, their territories are occupied. England and France suffered greatly during the Second World War and were forced to yield positions to the American "big brother".

America, during the war, enriched itself on military and raw materials supplies. She took Western Europe under her financial and economic control. The United States came out of the world war with a highly developed, completely whole industry, which provided a quarter of world production. A leader in a number of leading manufacturing, military technologies.

Monopoly on the atom


The United States had a monopoly on nuclear weapon... In July 1945, the Americans carried out the first test of a nuclear device. In August 1945, they carried out demonstrative and punitive atomic strikes against Japan.

The Americans had the world's most powerful strategic Aviation and showed the whole world on the example of Germany and Japan that they are ready to wipe out entire large cities and industrial areas. A fleet of long-range bombers could carry nuclear bombs. The States also had the strongest fleet in the world, aircraft carrier groups capable of reaching the enemy's shores. The Americans created a network of military bases, including naval and air forces, around the USSR.

Russia, on the other hand, has just begun to create jet aircraft. We had neither a large air-strategic force, nor a huge fleet, no aircraft carriers, no atomic weapons, no ballistic missiles.

Washington and London had clear plans for the destruction of the USSR. In essence, this was a continuation of Hitler's ideas. Dismemberment of Great Russia into national "banana republics". The elimination of communism and the Communist Party as the ideology and organizational core of the Russian people. The West wanted to finally exhaust Russia in the arms race. Intimidate the Soviet elite with the threat of a nuclear air war, before whose eyes there were examples of US and British air terror in Germany and Japan.


The Baker nuclear explosion in Bikini Atoll (Marshall Islands). An atomic bomb with a capacity of 40 kilotons was detonated 27 meters below the surface of the water 3,5 miles from the atoll. This was the second and last explosion in the American trials in July 1946. The goal was to study the impact of a nuclear explosion on ships.

Stalin's strategy


However, there was a man with a capital letter in the Kremlin. A leader with a steel will and an iron grip. It was Stalin's common sense, determination and will that allowed Russia to avoid another catastrophe. The Supreme Commander did not sprinkle ashes on his head and shout that "we will all die", hurrying to surrender everything and everyone. He showed reason, will and determination to respond with all the might of Russia. And this turned out to be stronger than the atomic baton of the United States.

In these difficult years, Stalin's dignity as a leader and strategist was again perfectly manifested (as in the years before and during the Great Patriotic War). The Red Emperor unmistakably chose the best way to contain American aggression: the most effective and cheapest. With the help of building up the power of the ground and air forces, the development of air defense forces, the creation of ballistic missiles and their own nuclear weapons. The USSR did not become involved in an expensive race to create strategic aviation and aircraft carriers. Russia formed the best ground forces in the world during the Great Patriotic War. Therefore, England and the United States did not dare to attack the Soviets in the summer of 1945. (About how the "allies" of the USSR in the Anti-Hitler coalition wanted to commit the "Unthinkable")... In the future, the Soviet army retained its position as the best on the planet.

Thus, with a possible US attack on the USSR, we had the opportunity with powerful blows from our tank armies, covered by aviation, to knock out the weak Anglo-American forces from Europe (other countries of Western Europe could not be taken into account at all), to rush into North Africa and Asia , destroy the western military bases there and take strategic positions and points. America then simply did not have the opportunity to wage an all-out atomic war, bomb the countries of Europe and Asia. At the same time, the Union is creating a foreign sabotage network and special forces to attack key US targets in Western Europe.

Also, do not forget that Stalin was concerned about the future of the Motherland. In the Soviet state, not only are they deploying combat-ready tank and air divisions, but they are also creating the nuclear, electronic, aircraft-jet, missile and space industries in record time. Suffice it to recall that before the start of the Great Patriotic War, when every penny was counted, our country spent 8% of GDP on education.

Already in 1945, when, it would seem, all the money should be spent on rebuilding the country, 9% of GDP was spent on education, and in 1950 - 14%! Colossal funds were spent on education and science, training of new highly qualified personnel. Hence the technological breakthrough in the Union.

Therefore, we were the first to create a nuclear power plant in Obninsk, launched the first artificial Earth satellite, built the world's first surface ship with a nuclear power plant (icebreaker "Lenin"), etc. The basis and cement of these victories was the brilliant education system created under Stalin.

Berlin lesson


Stalin stopped the enemy not only with the steel of tanks and the determination to fight to the death, but also with skillful diplomacy. In 1948-1949. the Berlin crisis broke out. Stalin, who disagreed with the decision to create a Western German state, blocked Berlin, which was inside the Soviet zone of occupation.

Soviet troops closed the railways and highways in East Germany, which led to the western sectors of Berlin, controlled by the United States, Britain and France. Then the water transport was also blocked. The Western powers organized an airlift from Berlin. The blockade lasted for a year.

At the same time, the Union did not block the supply of food, fuel and necessary goods for the inhabitants of the western sectors of Berlin. On the contrary, he took care of supplying the Germans with everything they needed. That is, Moscow tried not to make ordinary Berliners victims of the political confrontation between the West and the USSR. The Western powers, on the contrary, tried to thwart these supplies. Making ordinary Berliners hostage to the situation.

The troops of the United States and their allies stood opposite the Russian divisions. Part of the US military-political leadership insisted on a decisive response to the Soviets. Including the head of the American zone of occupation, General Lucius Clay. In the end, Stalin lifted the blockade. The partition of Germany was formalized. Later, liberal democratic publicists and Westernizers portrayed the Berlin crisis as the shameful defeat of the old communist dictator. Like, it was a victory for Western democracy.

In reality, Stalin outplayed the masters of the West.

Ingenious move


At the same time, a long and bloody civil war was ending in China. The Chinese communists smashed the pro-American regime of Chiang Kai-shek and moved towards Beijing. Washington did not want to lose huge China and was preparing for decisive actions, including atomic strikes against parts of the People's Liberation Army of China.

Stalin tried to create a red China. And a strong Eurasian bloc between the Russians and the Chinese that can withstand Western aggression. However, Moscow could not prevent the Americans from bombing China by force. Nuclear weapons have just been created. There was only one bomb. And there were no carriers of nuclear weapons at all.

Then Stalin made a brilliant move. It was known that the US stockpile of nuclear weapons was limited. The bombs are not enough for a simultaneous war in Europe and China.

The Berlin crisis distracted American attention. America was preparing for a possible armed conflict in Europe and could not deliver massive and possibly atomic strikes against the red units of the PLA in China.

And when Stalin "retreated", the Chinese communists had already gained the upper hand in the Celestial Empire. They captured the main cities and regions of the country. China became an ally of the USSR.

Now two great civilizations of Eurasia - Russian and Chinese - opposed the West at once.

This is how Stalin outplayed the West.
Author:
Photos used:
http://waralbum.ru/
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  1. Far B
    Far B 27 November 2020 05: 05
    +9
    By all objective indicators, the United States should have remained the only superpower on the planet.
    It is good that at that time our leaders knew how to drive a bolt on "objective indicators". A decade was actually enough to recover from the war. And not only to recover, but also to take new heights.
    It's bad that now there are no such leaders - now they only know how to nod at "objective indicators", attributing their worthlessness to them. And for three decades in a row we have been breaking through a new bottom every year.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 27 November 2020 05: 34
      +10
      Quote: Dalny V
      It's bad that now there are no such leaders

      It's good that I managed to live in the country when I was not ashamed of the power. It should be noted that Stalin could fight against Americanism and the secretaries of the regional and district committees were not noticed in the theft of state funds. And in the Criminal Code, the article on embezzlement of state property was considered serious. There were articles in the Criminal Code that were so soon “canceled” as “unnecessary”, see:
      https://back-in-ussr.com/2017/02/stati-sovetskogo-ugolovnogo-kodeksa-kotorye-seychas-vyglyadyat-ekzotichno.html
      Perhaps that is why there was no such mess in the country, when a person has nowhere to work, and if there is a job, then the “owner” pays a pittance for it.
      1. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 27 November 2020 06: 14
        +15
        However, there was a man with a capital letter in the Kremlin. A leader with a steel will and an iron grip. It was Stalin's common sense, determination and will that allowed Russia to avoid another catastrophe. The Supreme Commander did not sprinkle ashes on his head and shout that "we will all die", hurrying to surrender everything and everyone. He showed reason, will and determination to respond with all the might of Russia. And this turned out to be stronger than the atomic baton of the United States.

        Sufficiently brief, but at the same time succinct description of the Leader necessary for the country in a difficult historical moment.
        But not everyone is given to correspond ...
        1. Civil
          Civil 27 November 2020 10: 33
          +16
          Washington and London had clear plans for the destruction of the USSR. In essence, this was a continuation of Hitler's ideas. Dismemberment of Great Russia into national "banana republics". The elimination of communism and the Communist Party as the ideology and organizational core of the Russian people.

          It's been already 30 years since ...
          Red emperor

          To call Comrade Stalin "emperor" is the same as Chubais "comrade".


          Now two great civilizations of Eurasia - Russian and Chinese - opposed the West at once.

          This is how Stalin outplayed the West.


          Now there is only one power going to communism - the PRC. And yes, in China
          Park them. Comrade Stalin in Harbin:
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 28 November 2020 02: 40
            -6
            Stalin tried to create a red China
            Better not. Now China is a threat to the whole world by its mere existence. And it’s not even a military threat, although it is. It's just that China consumes too many resources, and most importantly, produces so much waste, in no small part environmentally hazardous, that the ball can not withstand. China, smoked with opium and divided into spheres of influence, as it was before Mao, would look much better today, and the USSR, and Russia, the base in Port Arthur and the extraterritorial Chinese Eastern Railway would not be superfluous
            1. gsev
              gsev 7 December 2020 07: 29
              0
              Quote: Nagan
              It's just that China consumes too many resources, and most importantly, produces so much waste, in no small part environmentally hazardous, that the ball can not withstand.

              I will assume that the Chinese consume less resources and produce less waste per capita than other peoples in Europe or America, but cheap Chinese products allow many Russians to live comfortably. Otherwise, they would have to overpay for European products or produce them themselves.
            2. gsev
              gsev 7 December 2020 07: 34
              0
              Quote: Nagan
              China, smoked with opium and divided into spheres of influence, as it was before Mao, would look much better today

              Chiang Kai's clean China was more hostile to us than Mao's China. Otherwise, the United States would now have an ally on our Far Eastern borders. And the countries of Southeast Asia would remain under Dutch, French and British control and fuel the power of Europe. And who knows, the United States, France and Great Britain would not have had a desire to make Russian Siberia and the Far East their colonies after 1945 had it not been for the PRC?
      2. Sofa batyr
        Sofa batyr 27 November 2020 06: 18
        +3
        Quote: ROSS 42
        secretaries of regional and district committees were not noticed in the theft of state funds

        Would have tried ...

        And now... recourse ... "At the top they steal, so we can"
        Rotten system. yes
        1. Fat
          Fat 27 November 2020 13: 39
          +2
          Quote: Divan-batyr
          Quote: ROSS 42
          secretaries of regional and district committees were not noticed in the theft of state funds

          Would have tried ...

          And now... recourse ... "At the top they steal, so we can"
          Rotten system. yes


          The bureaucracy has neither stocks nor bonds. It is recruited, replenished, renewed in the order of the administrative hierarchy, regardless of any special property relations inherent in it. An individual official cannot inherit his rights to exploit the state apparatus. The bureaucracy enjoys privileges through abuse. She hides her income. She pretends that as a special social group she does not exist at all. Its appropriation of a huge share of the national income has the character of social parasitism. All this makes the position of the commander of the Soviet layer extremely contradictory, ambiguous and unworthy, despite the fullness of power and a smokescreen of flattery ...
          The Soviet bureaucracy expropriated the proletariat politically in order to protect its social gains with its own methods. But the very fact of its appropriation of political power in a country where the most important means of production are concentrated in the hands of the state creates a new, not yet experienced relationship between the bureaucracy and the wealth of the nation. The means of production belong to the state. But the state, as it were, "belongs" to the bureaucracy. If these still fresh relations were strengthened, entered into the norm, legalized, with or without resistance from the working people, they would eventually lead to the complete elimination of the social gains of the proletarian revolution ...
          To call the Soviet regime transitional, or intermediate, means to reject complete social categories, both capitalism (including "state capitalism") and socialism. But this definition, which is completely inadequate in itself, can even cause an erroneous idea that the transition from the current Soviet regime is only possible to socialism. In fact, a rollback to capitalism is quite possible ...
          Let us imagine that the Soviet bureaucracy has been overthrown by a revolutionary party that has all the qualities of the old Bolshevism and at the same time has been enriched by the world experience of the last period. A party of this kind would start by restoring the democracy of trade unions and councils. It could and should have restored the freedom of the Soviet parties. Together with the masses and at the head of them, it would carry out a merciless purge of the state apparatus. It would destroy ranks and orders, all sorts of privileges in general, and would limit inequality in wages to the vital needs of the economy and the state apparatus. It would give young people the opportunity to think independently, learn, criticize and shape. It would introduce profound changes in the distribution of the national income in accordance with the interests and will of the workers and peasants. But as far as property relations are concerned, the new government would not have had to resort to revolutionary measures. She continued and would develop further the experience of a planned economy. After the political revolution, i.e. overthrowing the bureaucracy, the proletariat would have to carry out a number of important reforms in the economy, but not a new social revolution ...
          If ... the ruling Soviet caste were overthrown by a bourgeois party, it would find many ready-made servants among the current bureaucrats, administrators, technicians, directors, party secretaries, and generally privileged leaders. The purge of the state apparatus would, of course, be necessary in this case too; but the bourgeois restoration would, perhaps, have to purge fewer people than the revolutionary party. The main task of the new government would, however, be the restoration of private ownership of the means of production. First of all, it would be necessary to create conditions for separating strong farmers from weak collective farms and for transforming strong collective farms into production cooperatives of the bourgeois type, into agricultural joint-stock companies. In the field of industry, denationalization would begin with enterprises in the light and food industries. During the transition period, the planned start would turn into a series of compromises between state power and individual "corporations", i.e. potential owners from the Soviet captains of industry, their former émigré owners and foreign capitalists ...
          L. Trotsky 1937. Spanish edition of the Revolution Betrayed
      3. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 27 November 2020 07: 30
        +2
        On the death of the Chief, Winston Churchill wrote,
        Words of recognition without aplomb:
        "Stalin took Russia from the plow,
        And leaves with an atomic bomb ... "

        Years passed, I live in a different country,
        Where presidents are democrats
        The country was received with "mace" and "Satan",
        And they leave it with a rusty shovel ...
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 27 November 2020 08: 07
          -10%
          We are not interested in the problems of the remnants of the Ukrainian SSR.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 27 November 2020 08: 34
          +24
          On the death of the Chief, Winston Churchill wrote,
          Churchill did not write or say that. This is a line from a 1953 obituary in The Times. Its author is British historian Isaac Deutscher.
          In the original, the phrase looks like this.
          “In the course of three decades, however, the face of the Soviet Union has become transformed. The core of Stalin's historic achievements consists in this, that he had found Russia working with wooden ploughs and is leaving her equipped with atomic piles. He has raised Russia to the level of the second industrial Power of the world. This was not a matter of mere material progress and organization. No such achievement would have been possible without a vast cultural revolution, in the course of which a whole nation was sent to school to undergo a most intensive education. "
          “However, over the past three decades, the face of Russia has begun to change. The essence of Stalin's truly historic achievements is that he accepted Russia with a plow and left with nuclear reactors. He raised Russia to the level of the second industrially developed country in the world. This was not the result of purely material progress and organizational work. Such achievements would not have been possible without an all-encompassing cultural revolution, during which the entire population attended school and studied very hard. "
        3. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 11: 59
          +6
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Winston Churchill wrote,
          Words of recognition without aplomb:
          "Stalin took Russia from the plow,
          And leaves with an atomic bomb ... "

          Churchill never wrote this. Churchill with a plow and a bomb is a fanfic from 88 "I Can't Give Up the Principles" by Nina Alexandrovna Andreeva, deceased.
      4. Doccor18
        Doccor18 27 November 2020 09: 23
        +6
        Stalin knew how to keep party and government officials in check. In March 1947, at the initiative of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (consider I.V. Stalin), special bodies were created, which appeared at ministries and departments, to counteract unpatriotic and anti-social actions committed by leading and party officials in the highest power structures ... The so-called "courts of honor". This concerned those offenses that did not fall under criminal responsibility. Such courts were organized under the ministries. Their action did not apply to ordinary citizens, they were aimed only at monitoring the activities of ministry officials. During the year, 82 "Courts of Honor" were held.
        Khrushchev immediately canceled this, as he took the post of supreme ...
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 28 November 2020 02: 45
          +2
          Quote: Doccor18
          Stalin knew how to keep party and government officials in check.

          Ivan the Terrible is accused, in particular, of executing innocent boyars. Could the boyars be innocent?
      5. antivirus
        antivirus 12 January 2021 14: 39
        0
        Price issue:
        antivirus 7 July 11, 2016 09:04 | Five questions of Stalin
        conclusions will be only after 2041 g
        When all those interested in them (precisely determine the reasons) die
        In 1982, my father told me (new trousers, he could not fasten his buttoned fly with his left hand): but I can do anything and anything. Seen enough on the disabled after the war.
        Already by the 37th anniversary of the Victory of the disabled there were no more

        father - the richest, millionaires, with a suitcase of silicon, a flint for lighters. sweat products, soap, matches
        7 November 2018 18: 14
        The market in besieged Leningrad: evidence of survivors. Part of 1
        father always (2 higher arr) at the end of dinner from the whole table with his palm raked the crumbs and- IN MOUTH

        The market in besieged Leningrad: evidence of survivors. Part of 1
        father-- survived only due to the unique cow, fat content of milk 6%, like goat.
        blockade soldered.
        the hungry year is -44, I don’t know how I did not die.
        lifted the blockade and left the Leningrad specialists (they had everything in an apartment, not a room) and there was no one to sell milk to, no money
        Komsomolsk, Yves region
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 27 November 2020 08: 07
      -14%
      You may be breaking through, but what does Putin have to do with pulling the country out of the ruin of the 90s?

      About the leaders of the 30s, you should at least get acquainted with the real state of affairs.
      1. Far B
        Far B 27 November 2020 08: 13
        +5
        Putin pulling the country out of the devastation of the 90s
        Have you already painted the canvas of the same name in oil? No?! Be sure to write - it should hang at your head. Oh yes. Throw a reproduction here in the form of a photo, I want to see how it looks (then, of course, I want to unsee it, but then - later).
        About the leaders of the 30s you would
        Open your eyes. Where in my post about 30s leaders?
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 27 November 2020 08: 22
          -7
          That is, you have already forgotten what your post wrote about? What then to ask about the 90s, even if you really lived them, and were not born on Putin's maternity capital.
          1. Far B
            Far B 27 November 2020 08: 26
            +6
            A decade was actually enough to recover from the war
            This is my post. Where is there about the 30th, incomprehensible purple animal?
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 27 November 2020 20: 05
        +3
        Where did he get the country to ?? Poverty all around .. Putin was just lucky - the first 10 years of his rule were abnormally high oil prices .. With 100 bucks - no mind. But as soon as prices collapsed, Putin's neo-feudalism collapsed. Because his brothers did not know how to create anything, and they still cannot ...
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 November 2020 21: 20
          0
          Quote: paul3390
          Where did he get the country to ?? Poverty all around .. Putin was just lucky - the first 10 years of his rule were abnormally high oil prices ..

          The oil price exceeded $ 50 per barrel only in October 2004.
          And it’s not a fact that if oil prices were such under EBN, the budget would receive something. Because the oil and gas sector showed minimal or zero profit even at $ 50 per barrel, and began to show profit only after someone was sent to sew mittens. Moreover, it suddenly became profitable at roughly the same oil prices. smile
    3. Moskovit
      Moskovit 27 November 2020 09: 21
      -2
      Here the question is different. Everyone is nodding at our leaders, they say, they do not want this and that. Maybe your grandparents told how they lived at that time? And life was very hard for them. A lot of work, little money, few goods, products. Who owned the cars? Who went on vacation? Scale units. Therefore, Samsonov and the sympathizers need to ask if the people want the revival of that order? All young people are against, middle age, who have something for their souls too. Only retirees are in favor.
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 27 November 2020 16: 16
        +4
        I am not a pensioner and I can see very well what Stalin did: he raised the country from complete ruin twice, once after the revolution, the second time after the war, and brought the country to the 2nd place in the world.
        And the current rulers are just pygmies by comparison. Yes, then they did not live richly, but now 20 million below the poverty line from where?
        1. Moskovit
          Moskovit 27 November 2020 18: 18
          0
          People who are now below the poverty line are wealthy compared to then.
          1. Kwas
            Kwas 28 November 2020 12: 45
            +1
            Quote: Moskovit
            People who are now below the poverty line are wealthy compared to then.

            These people still have the opportunity to partially use what was created in 1945-1991. When will it end? Wealth is relative, and I strongly doubt that today's nouveau riche will sacrifice anything for the benefit of the people. Rather, they will knock down, if it goes somewhere, a global crisis. wink
            1. Moskovit
              Moskovit 28 November 2020 13: 07
              +2
              Yes, as long as possible). It was over long ago. Of course, then a gigantic foundation was laid. But 50 years have passed. Much new has been built.
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 29 November 2020 11: 50
                +1
                Quote: Moskovit
                It was over long ago.

                Fortunately, it did not end. For example, housing and communications. I live in a house with electricity, heating, sewerage, I go to work every day on the subway, and I think many people do that. And for example, the rate on personal vehicles, in my opinion, is simply stupid.
                1. Moskovit
                  Moskovit 29 November 2020 12: 47
                  0
                  But everything in your house has changed since then. In general, why, to live, looking back all the time, is counterproductive.
                  1. Kwas
                    Kwas 29 November 2020 13: 12
                    0
                    Well, not everything has changed, even the sewerage and electrical wiring is quite alive, not to mention the walls. wassat But looking back and comparing is quite productive, otherwise why are we here at all studying history and arguing about it? Namely for the reason, IMHO, that knowledge of history allows you to understand the present day and better build a forecast and plans for tomorrow.
                    1. Moskovit
                      Moskovit 29 November 2020 14: 42
                      0
                      The TV is packed with endless series about the Soviet era. A huge amount of nostalgic programs about what happened then. I myself grew up during the Soviet era and I love to remember. But now I'm sick of it. Overkill is real. Why? There is nothing to remember from the immediate past. We remember the distant, and even distort it. ...
                      Naturally, lessons must be learned from history. But you also need to understand that the system is different now. People are different.
          2. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 30 November 2020 22: 14
            +1
            Tell those whom black realtors threw out into the street how great they are. Or veterans who are given everything and will not be given an apartment. Are waiting. probably, when there will be no one to hand over, only to their children. Or are teachers now given free apartments? And their children have free rest in boarding houses on the Black Sea? The number of cars on the streets does not automatically mean the wealth of the people.
            The state, represented by the current government, purposefully renounces its responsibility for society and the protection of citizens - it does not need this. Yes, in the days of the Soviet Union there was no complete social justice (I felt it well on myself), but now there is no talk about justice at all - only about more or less injustice.
            And there were no homeless people on the heating mains, there were drunks who wanted to live like this, but no one kicked them out of their homes.
      2. gsev
        gsev 7 December 2020 07: 39
        0
        Quote: Moskovit
        And life was very hard for them. A lot of work, little money, few goods, products

        By 1990, almost all the inhabitants of the USSR had acquired dachas. It became almost impossible for the majority of the population to raise and maintain a second home after 1991. Now more than half of the population is able to rent a room or a bed in a room.
        1. Moskovit
          Moskovit 7 December 2020 12: 36
          0
          Are you sure about Russia now? I now look at the neighbors in their summer cottages and see how people build normal houses. They come to the dacha in their cars. I put the gas on myself. Could this have been imagined during the Soviet era?
          1. gsev
            gsev 8 December 2020 02: 17
            0
            Quote: Moskovit
            Could this have been imagined during the Soviet era?

            Nurses at the central military hospital in Moscow have about 22 rubles a month. Are they able to pay for the construction of a summer residence with this money? In addition, a nurse after the age of 45 has practically no opportunity to work in her specialty in private clinics. Only the young and the beautiful are in demand there.
            1. Moskovit
              Moskovit 8 December 2020 10: 48
              0
              Nurses in the USSR were not particularly flamboyant - 80 r maximum. You are confusing beauty salons with clinics. Experienced nurses are needed everywhere. In addition, if a person does not sit on the priest evenly, then he will give injections and provide all kinds of medical services in addition to the main income.
    4. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 27 November 2020 10: 56
      +2
      And for three decades in a row we have been breaking through a new bottom every year.
      You are right, we, ordinary people, are sinking lower and lower, both in economic and socio-educational terms. We are being driven there by "objective" reasons. On the other hand, those who are at the top are pushing ever new ceilings personally and financially; they give their children an excellent education, instilling contempt for those who are "below." Under capitalism it will not be otherwise. These are the "OBJECTIVE" reasons. There are no others and will never be. How terrible it was to live in the USSR, everyone who calved received an excellent education, guaranteed work, medical care. He worked for the benefit of those like him, not the "uncle's" wallet. There were no interethnic wars inside the country. For capitalism - a terrible picture!
  2. Red Alert
    Red Alert 27 November 2020 06: 08
    +5
    To name the faithful Leninist comrade Stalin's some kind of red emperor, this is to tarnish his memory.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 27 November 2020 06: 30
      +5
      Comrade Stalin's some kind of red emperor, this is to tarnish his memory.
      .... USSR, in the Western manner by the Soviets ..
    2. 210ox
      210ox 27 November 2020 09: 00
      +6
      And the eternal confusion with Samsonov is Russia, not the Soviet Union. And about "they did not dare to attack in the summer of 1945" ... But the Soviet Union had not yet entered the war with Japan, and the "allies" needed us. And they did not even dare to use "Dropshot", although at that moment we had no nuclear weapons.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 27 November 2020 13: 32
        -5
        “With the help of building up the power of the ground and air forces, the development of air defense forces, the creation of ballistic missiles and its own nuclear weapons. Therefore, England and the United States did not dare to attack the Soviets in the summer of 1945 "
        Yes, the phrase is, of course, surprising. The USSR tested the bomb in the 49th, the missiles also did not immediately, but we are talking about the 45th, when there were no missiles or bombs. And the ground forces ... snotty boys went to the army, there were simply no human resources, and a bomb on Moscow, a bomb on Leningrad ... if the States were out of reach, a lot, if not all, would have decided. Would they have done them quickly if necessary.
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 27 November 2020 14: 06
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          Would they have done them quickly if necessary.

          Wouldn't. The nuclear industry was not immediately promoted by the Americans. After Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there was no stockpile of bombs in the United States. And how many there were by years ... you have to look. But definitely not enough ...
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 14: 42
            +3
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            After Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there was no stockpile of bombs in the United States.

            Yes, for such a thing the Japanese would have to wait.
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            And how many were there by years

            In the 45th every 3 months, in the 46th every month. But they weren't very tense anymore.
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            But definitely not enough ...

            For what?
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 27 November 2020 14: 50
              -2
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              In the 45th every 3 months, in the 46th every month. But they weren't very tense anymore.

              There is evidence - 9 bombs in the 46th year had, and only 27 aircraft capable of lifting it ... the bombs were very heavy, about 9 tons.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 14: 55
                +4
                Quote: Mountain Shooter
                9 bombs in the 46th year

                Yes, by June. In the 45th +2 not counting the used ones.
                Quote: Mountain Shooter
                27 aircraft capable of lifting it

                These are ordinary B-29s, slightly modified. 3 pieces per device. There were several thousand B-29s themselves.
                Quote: Mountain Shooter
                about 9 tons.

                The Fat Man weighed 4,5. For B-29, this is a moderate load.
        2. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 14: 34
          +4
          we are talking about the 45th
          And in the 45th it would be very difficult to explain to the soldiers of Britain and the United States that a reliable ally and comrade in the fight against Nazism should be attacked.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 14: 50
            0
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            comrade in the fight against Nazism must be attacked.

            And what are the British soldiers, and even more so the United States, claims to Nazism? Someone burned their home in Kansas?
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            at 45 it would be very difficult to explain

            And let's try.
            The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them, except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian have no regard for human life and is an all (further obscene)

            Well, the famous
            If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 15: 01
              +6
              burned down their home in Kansas?
              The home huts of British soldiers in Coventry, Birmingham and London were burned down in large numbers. How could King George, who gave Stalingrad a sword from Wilkinson, explain to his subjects that one should go into battle against them? The kings still knew the value of their word. And how many British and American sailors did not return from escorting convoys?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 08
                -1
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                The home huts of British soldiers in Coventry, Birmingham and London were burned down in large numbers.

                92 thousand people the loss of civilians in Britain.
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                to your subjects that you have to go into battle against them? The kings still knew the value of their word.

                One hundred years as explained
                Therefore I say that it is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.

                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                And how many British and American sailors did not return from escorting convoys?

                Really? The division will not be typed. Naval war is very expensive in money, but not in blood.
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 15: 37
                  +7
                  92 thousand people lost peace in Britain
                  That's a lot for them. For you, sitting at the computer, no good I had a lot of interest in that war in Britain when I lived there. And I can say that that war for the people of Britain was then also a popular one. Justify right now
                  1. Their sensitivity to losses is much higher.
                  2. Never into Britain (Duct wassat the islands are closer in spirit to France) enemy soldiers did not land (Viking warriors, you must agree, not that)
                  3. Shortage of food and gasoline began. Oh, for the Brit, it smells like Vaseline.
                  4. Mobilization of industry. Then in almost every ordinary family (they were more at that time than now) someone worked at a factory. That is, the whole country immediately felt that something was not right and wrong.
                  5. Their cities are being turned into ruins. You see, these are THEIR cities!
                  There are many more reasons. Here are the main ones.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 54
                    -5
                    Quote: Bolt Cutter
                    That's a lot for them.

                    What tenderness, and you will not think. In Hamburg alone, half of that number died in a week.
                    Quote: Bolt Cutter
                    Their sensitivity to losses is much higher.

                    Much higher than what? Themselves during WWI?
                    Quote: Bolt Cutter
                    Enemy soldiers never landed on British territory ...

                    And what is it for? Jersey ashes pounding in their hearts or what?
                    Quote: Bolt Cutter
                    There was a shortage of food and gasoline.

                    Has it started?After 6 years of war?
                    Quote: Bolt Cutter
                    That is, the whole country immediately felt that something was not right and wrong.

                    That you don't need to work at the plant or what? Some kind of strange thesis.
                    Quote: Bolt Cutter
                    Their cities are being turned into ruins. You see, these are THEIR cities!

                    Another strange thesis. It is especially interesting to hear this from a person with a Soviet background. "Cities are being turned into ruins," it says loudly.
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 16: 06
                      +6
                      "Cities are being turned into ruins," said loudly
                      Eh, you would be under the bomb yes
                      You absolutely do not take into account the ethnocentrism of the British (Hamburg is not particularly interested in them. Birmingham, yes). And their habit of winning. For them it was a people's war. Do not believe me, get out of the tyrnet and go for a walk in English museums (for example, I even climbed into a military spitfire, and the pilot who had previously piloted it (at an air show, though) told me how to drive it back and forth) and bookstores. And do not forget to look into the pub, but watch the language - in real life, the minus will also be put real tongue .
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 16: 17
                        -2
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Eh, you would be under the bomb

                        Thank you, I will keep your wishes in mind.
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        And do not forget to look into the pub, but watch the language - in real life, the minus will also be put real

                        Yes, I already understood from the comments that you have a specific social circle in Britain (let's say you are really in Britain).
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 16: 29
                        +3
                        let's say you are really in Britain)
                        I can send a postcard laughing
                        specific social circle
                        Very versatile. I don’t disdain anyone’s opinion. I even talked to you or offended repeat than?
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 16: 50
                        -4
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        Or offended with what?

                        Me? This is not my first day on the Internet. Just stories about how the USSR was loved abroad, for some reason, give me the idea of ​​Margarita Simonovna's employees.

                        However, let's not get personal.
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 21: 23
                        +2
                        stories about how the USSR was loved abroad
                        At the time of 1945, they were very fond. Simple workers of tank factories put gifts for Soviet tankmen in the tanks they collected. Again, there was a lot of pro-Soviet propaganda there then.
                      5. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 21: 42
                        0


                        Here are examples of THEIR posters
                      6. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 21: 50
                        +2


                        Here are two more. At the time of 1945, the mood was just that.
  3. Motorist
    Motorist 27 November 2020 23: 28
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    The difficulty in understanding ...

    Nine, hello! You are breaking! Not everyone reads a foreign language. Who wrote this, by the way? Aren't they remakes, like Churchill's with a plow and a bomb?

    PS I am still studying the sources provided by you, do not blame me ... hi
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 28 November 2020 12: 26
      +2
      Quote: Motorist
      Hello

      Hello.
      Quote: Motorist
      Still studying

      I wrote that I am not expecting you until Christmas. At least Orthodox Julian.
      Quote: Motorist
      Not everyone reads foreign

      1. The bolt cutter appears to be a UK resident.
      2. Everyone has a right button or select text - popup menu - search. Are you on a push-button telephone, perhaps, go to the Internet?
      3.
      The difficulty with understanding Russians is that we are not aware of the fact that they belong not to Europe, but to Asia, and therefore they think in other ways. We are not able to understand the Russians, just as we cannot understand the Chinese or the Japanese, and having a rich experience of communicating with them, I must say that I have no particular desire to understand them, except for understanding how much lead and iron is required to exterminate them. ... In addition to other Asian traits of their character, Russians do not respect human life - they (further obscene)

      J.S. Patton Jr., General of the US Army (4-Star General), 1945
      (I will say in parentheses, the further I despise Eisenhower and admire Patton. He was a crazy muddled man and anti-Semite, but in the summer of 45 he was right about everything. He was not alone, many Americans understood everything correctly. But, alas , it was not their time.
      we have had a victory over the Germans and disarmed them; we have failed in the liberation of Europe; we have lost the war!)
      If we see that Germany is winning the war, we should help Russia, if there is Russia, we should help Germany, and let them kill each other as much as possible

      Senator from pcs. Missouri Harry S. Truman, 1941.
      (In parentheses, I note that, contrary to the Soviet submission during the Cold War, Truman's stated opinion was moderately pro-Soviet at that time, since it allowed the USSR to help at least to some extent. On average, for America of that time, Hitler's position on most issues was considered generally correct perhaps a little radical (google Jews, St. Louis), and the USSR was the kingdom of the Antichrist. The desperately pro-British (as it mistakenly seemed) policy of Roosevelt regarding the war in Europe had no support, and the Soviet-German war was completely perceived separately from the Anglo -German).
      Therefore, I maintain that it is shortsighted to regard this or that country as an unchanging ally or eternal enemy of England. We do not have permanent allies, we do not have eternal enemies. Only our interests are immutable and eternal, and our duty is to follow them

      Lord Palmerston, British Foreign Secretary, 1848
  • Kwas
    Kwas 28 November 2020 12: 52
    -4
    Quote: kalibr
    a bomb on Moscow, a bomb on Leningrad ... if the States were out of reach, a lot, if not all, would have been decided.

    Nobody canceled the air defense of large cities, the Air Force too, and the States had no guarantee that at least one bomb would be delivered "to its destination." Not to mention the fact that Moscow and Leningrad are stone, capital, which is somewhat problematic to destroy. This is not Hiroshima for you to exercise.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 28 November 2020 13: 44
      +2
      Quote: Kwas
      Air defense of large cities has not been canceled

      The chances of Spitov from the Moscow air defense against the B-29 are minimal. The chances of pawns - night fighters are zero.
      Quote: Kwas
      speaking of the fact that Moscow and Leningrad are stone, capital, which is somewhat problematic to destroy

      It is necessary to disable Moscow as a railway hub. The second, if possible, is Kuibyshev, with him there are some difficulties in reach. Leningrad is not needed, ordinary bombs will be enough for Leningrad.

      However, I believe in the wisdom of Comrade Stalin. When not Silverplate, but only B-29 photo reconnaissance appeared over Moscow, his peacefulness and adherence to the ideals of the Atlantic Charter could pleasantly surprise all people of goodwill.
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 29 November 2020 12: 14
        -1
        Quote: Cherry Nine

        The chances of Spitov from the Moscow air defense against the B-29 are minimal. The chances of pawns - night fighters are zero.

        As far as I know, the Allied strategists flew during the day, but at night they could not. In the daytime, the Pe-3 could easily overwhelm any bomber. Air defense, with a real threat, was easily built up, at least at the expense of the Me-262, but there was no real threat. And then the MiGs appeared.
        Quote: Cherry Nine

        It is necessary to disable Moscow as a railway hub.

        You will not believe how quickly and well we learned how to repair railway during the war. So this goal is just silly.
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        However, I believe in the wisdom of Comrade Stalin. When not Silverplate, but only B-29 photo reconnaissance appeared over Moscow, his peacefulness and adherence to the ideals of the Atlantic Charter could pleasantly surprise all people of goodwill.

        And he was already peaceful. And Japanese photo reconnaissance on TB-7 was also a sign of peacefulness.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 November 2020 21: 44
          -1
          Quote: Kwas
          As far as I know, the Allied strategists flew during the day, but at night they could not.

          Strategists could fly both day and night. The daytime raid on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was solely due to the fact that the eggheads and multi-stars were required to lay the bomb with maximum accuracy at the calculated point - for the purity of the experiment (assessment of destruction).
          Quote: Kwas
          In the daytime, the Pe-3 could easily overwhelm any bomber.

          Two ShVAKs with their disgusting ballistics and weak projectile? I'm afraid that the "pawn" will have to open fire in the effective fire zone of the 0,5 "bomber.
          And yes, the Pe-3 with its 535 km / h first needs to catch up with this bomber. smile
          Quote: Kwas
          You will not believe how quickly and well we learned how to repair railway during the war.

          Do not repair - restore movement. Moreover, according to a temporary scheme. The full restoration of the railway, bringing the capacity to the pre-war level, was carried out after the end of the war.
          The problem of low rates of restoration of the railway was so acute that during the same "Bagration" planning of the offensive in the area of ​​the railway was carried out proceeding from the primary need to capture the intact railway infrastructure. To destroy only one of the travel destroyers, an assault air regiment was allocated for a day.
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 November 2020 22: 32
          +1
          Quote: Kwas
          Japanese photographic reconnaissance on TB-7 was also a sign of peacefulness.

          This is please. Soviet long-range aviation is useless.
          Quote: Kwas
          As far as I know, the Allied strategists flew during the day, but at night they could not.

          The British did not tell the life hack?
          Quote: Kwas
          In the daytime, the Pe-3 could well fill up any bomber

          They went to the strategists and could not rise to their working height. Only if they have to decline.
          Quote: Kwas
          at least at the expense of the Me-262

          Are you delusional? Messerschmidt factories in Bavaria, in the American zone. The transition to jet aviation takes years, ask what the Red Army cost even the Cobra in terms of mastering by pilots and technical personnel.
          Quote: Kwas
          And then the MiGs appeared.

          What other MiGs? MiG-3 on B-29? Or is it about the MiG-15 with British engines in the 45th year?
          Quote: Kwas
          how quickly and well did we learn how to repair railway during the war

          Don't underestimate 21kt TNT. The restoration of the Stalingrad railway unit took 3 months and not to full performance, but at least to some. I'm not talking about rails, but about a depot, marshalling yards, etc.

          However, you are partly right. AB has a certain demonic veil due to fears of the 60s and 70s, but in reality, the CiN is about 20% of the tonnage dumped on its home islands, and a little more than 1% of the bomb tonnage used in Europe. So if you do not go into blitzkrieg adventures, but thoroughly cut the USSR in pre-Petrine times, then you should annex the Swedish Gotland, or even better, capture Saaremaa and build capitalism there on the Pacific model.


          However, this particular construction took 10 months, so the task moves to the 46th year. In the summer of 45, you will have to start from those places where there is already a minimum infrastructure for strategic aviation, there are not so few of them: Copenhagen, Trieste, Erbil, Rivalpindi. From Copenhagen and Trieste, strategists, and most importantly, P-47N, are closing the Leningrad-Rzhev-Kiev-Odessa line. From Iraq, the same P-47Ns with strategists reach Rostov-on-Don - Stalingrad - Astrakhan. Baku is everything, it goes without saying. B-29s from Denmark close the entire left bank of the Volga, and their flights from Iraq and the vice-kingdom move the places calm for the Bolsheviks somewhere in the Krasnoyarsk region. Fighters do not fly at such a distance (the few Twin Mustangs, for example, will be postponed until 46), but it is already difficult for the Soviet side to deal with B-29s, and at night it is not at all. The Americans riveted them nearly 4 thousand.

          With such matters, the Allied ground forces should not be on the rampage, as in the Unthinkable, but just sit on natural defensive lines until the Red Army dies of hunger. Even if we assume that the Red Army in 45 is stronger (and this is not so) - the task for the SES is quite solvable, and with mutual understanding with the transitional government of Germany, it can be solved without a doubt.
          1. Kwas
            Kwas 1 December 2020 07: 34
            -1
            Quote: Cherry Nine

            What other MiGs? MiG-3 on B-29? Or is it about the MiG-15 with British engines in the 45th year?

            We are talking about 1947-1949. The only gap when you could attack. In 1945, neither their people, nor the army would simply not understand the attack on the USSR, and ours, although mortally tired, would have become so brutal that in 1-2 weeks they would have reached Brest, Trieste, Copenhagen, etc., there would have been nowhere to bomb, but on the other hand London and half of England are immediately under attack from front-line aviation. After 1949 - I hope you can see why.
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Japanese photographic reconnaissance on TB-7 was also a sign of peacefulness.
            This is please. Soviet long-range aviation is useless.

            Soviet long-range aviation, if anything, was night, and it was a big problem to intercept it, even taking into account the locators.
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Quote: Kwas
            At least at the expense of the Me-262
            Are you delusional? Messerschmidt factories in Bavaria, in the American zone. The transition to jet aviation takes years, ask what the Red Army cost even the Cobra in terms of mastering by pilots and technical personnel.

            Plants - yes, but the cars themselves got a lot. And good pilots in 45-47 were enough for a very quick development. The same aerocobras - after all, they mastered it, and quickly, and flew, and shot down. For example Pokryshkin's regiment.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 1 December 2020 10: 26
              -1
              Quote: Kwas
              In 1945, neither their people nor the army would simply understand the attack on the USSR,

              Really? The British began to consider such ideas in the spring, the Americans - in the fall. You underestimate the tenacity with which the USSR ran into trouble. Just in 45, the war with the USSR was the most realistic solution, so as not to get up twice. For another year or two of the war, society, in principle, was ready.
              As for the popularity of the USSR, we are discussing this in a thread with Boltorez. Such a problem (more precisely, an error) did exist, but the problem is quite solvable. Real hostilities with former allies began 5 years later. USSR with Comrade Stalin had something to hate for himself, and the Second World War, when by no means always comrades in leather jackets managed to remove or destroy archives, when they began to find slightly dug corpses here and there on Soviet territories, gave a lot of new material for anti-Soviet propaganda, if he was someone is interested.
              Quote: Kwas
              would have become so brutal that in 1-2 weeks they would have reached Brest, Trieste, Copenhagen, etc.

              In the summer of 45, the Red Army did not have a single chance to do at least something in a new war. The most it can count on is the Elbe-Rhine operation. And only with the terrible mistakes of the Allies. Perhaps the worst option for the Allies is described in Unthinkable.

              This is usually poorly understood. The Red Army in 45 was on its last legs and barely finished off the beggar and half-dead Wehrmacht. A clash with the two richest armies (the Wehrmacht was never rich), which was lost throughout the war 5% not from the mob potential, but from the draft age (born in 1921-1926), which outnumbered the Red Army by two times, which were technically from the Red Army simply in another universe - this is not something that a Soviet patriot should be pleased to think about.

              Especially nice about Copenhagen. Specify where it is geographically relative to Comrade. Rokossovsky. What, in fact, is the route the latter can get there.
              Quote: Kwas
              but London and half of England are immediately under attack from front-line aviation.

              Il-10 with Pe-2, or what? Very funny. Soviet aviation is the second most absurd branch of the military after the Soviet fleet. Her hacks with backlashes of the year 44, when 2 air armies are fighting with one fighter group - it's just to hug and cry. In the event of a conflict with the Allies, who are simply incommensurable in strength with backlashes, Soviet aviation may fly for a week.
              Quote: Kwas
              After 1949 - I hope you can see why.

              No, it's not clear. What happened there in the 49th year? What could interest Americans?
              Quote: Kwas
              Soviet long-range aviation, if anything, was night, and it was a big problem to intercept it, even taking into account the locators.

              1. To Americans and British? No. They learned a thing or two about the night bombardment since the London Blitz, unlike the Soviet side.
              2. But the Soviet side did not know about the night bombing nothing... So they could fly somewhere and one way, but no harm.
              Quote: Kwas
              Plants - yes, but the cars themselves got a lot.

              262's? Practically not, they worked in the West for obvious reasons.
              Quote: Kwas
              And good pilots in 45-47 were enough for a very quick development.

              To quickly master the Me-262, you need not good pilots (and what about the pilots? The names of Novotny, Bong do not say anything?), But non-drinking airfield personnel. Preferably with a higher technical education. By the way, do you have a good idea of ​​the resource of trophy vehicles produced in '45, how many were there?
              Quote: Kwas
              because they mastered it, and quickly

              By the year 43, mainly in the 44th.
              Quote: Kwas
              We are talking about 1947-1949. The only gap

              This is just unrealistic. In Britain, socialists rule, in the States they demobilized the army in their manner below the sewer level, the Germans are still under occupation and cannot do anything special. The Korean one was barely taken out, just on the teeth and mass heroism.

              But in 45, heroism was unnecessary, unmeasurable strength.
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 1 December 2020 14: 26
                0
                I read it, apparently you are paid well, so further discussion is meaningless. For I cannot imagine a holistic vision of history, similar to yours, and you, apparently, are still not stupid.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 1 December 2020 14: 40
                  -2
                  Quote: Kwas
                  I read it, apparently you are paid well,

                  )))
                  Good or bad, but definitely not for that. Getting into such threads during working hours is more of a bad habit.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  For I cannot imagine a holistic vision of history,

                  )))
                  A holistic vision will not hurt, but you need to know the details at least minimally. For example, that Zealand is an island)))
                2. Kwas
                  Kwas 2 December 2020 15: 31
                  -1
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  For example, that Zealand is an island)))

                  Yes, an island, an island, just to keep it, after the loss of Jutland, would be impossible. Which is what happened in 1940. But since you are in the trend "everything is lousy with us", you will laugh and scoff.
                  Sorry, you probably don't say "with us", but "with the scoops."
                3. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 2 December 2020 16: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Which is what happened in 1940.

                  Take one regiment from a civilian steamer the hypothetical main Allied base in the Baltic? Fighting the 45th Anglo-American Combined Fleet without firing a shot? This is serious?

                  As I already said, if you want to conduct a discussion, you should pay a little more attention to the details. My opinion about Soviet power has nothing to do with the fact that in 45 the whole sea and the entire coast was behind the Allies, and there are no options here.

                  By the way, in the piggy bank of useless knowledge. As of the summer of 45, within the reach of the American sea aviation is not only Moscow, but also Gorky.

                  "everything is lousy with us"

                  In some places you can find good solutions, but they will not make the weather.
                4. Kwas
                  Kwas 3 December 2020 20: 53
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  in the 45th year the whole sea and the whole coast is behind the Allies, and there are no options here.
                  By the way, in the piggy bank of useless knowledge. As of the summer of 45, not only Moscow, but also Gorky was within the reach of American naval aviation.

                  Not even into a discussion, but out of pure curiosity. You probably think that the "allies" could operate from aircraft carriers against the USSR from the Baltic Sea? Or even the Gulf of Riga and Finland?
                5. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 3 December 2020 22: 11
                  -1
                  Oh, I feel you got hold of a map and a ruler somewhere, congratulations!

                  It is unreasonable to enter Riga in the first days of the war, to Finnish without problems, after mine clearance. IL-2 is suitable for a kamikaze plane very bad, Yak-9 still back and forth)))
                6. Kwas
                  Kwas 4 December 2020 07: 59
                  0
                  No offense, but you probably have a very bad idea of ​​the performance characteristics of the then aircraft carriers and their combat practice. Read the literature, well, Nimitz, at least, or something. But I can explain it on my fingers. The aircraft carrier had (then) great striking power, but damn weak defenses. There is no deck armor (except for a few English ones), all filled with explosives and fuel. Fatally vulnerable to 1-2 medium bombs. He categorically did not have time to raise cover fighters during the approach of the detected attacking group. It is impossible to keep a sufficient cover group in the air at all times. Anti-aircraft weapons are extremely ineffective. Or do you think that from the good life they unloaded battleships as air defense ships?
                  Hence, a very simple conclusion: not that in the Gulf of Riga, they generally could not get into the Baltic, and categorically.
                7. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 4 December 2020 10: 02
                  -1
                  Quote: Kwas
                  You probably have a very bad idea of ​​the performance characteristics of the then aircraft carriers and their combat practice.

                  Seriously?
                  Quote: Kwas
                  well Nimitz at least

                  Nimitz-Potter? Potter doesn't write about tactics.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  He categorically did not have time to raise cover fighters during the approach of the detected attacking group. It is impossible to keep a sufficient cover group in the air at all times.

                  Really? Are you talking about Americans in 45?
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Anti-aircraft weapons are extremely ineffective.

                  Really? Are you talking about Americans in 45?
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Or do you think that from the good life they unloaded battleships as air defense ships?

                  What else can they do, battleships?
                  Quote: Kwas
                  they generally could not get into the Baltic, and categorically.

                  How formidable. Have you forgotten that while your brutal Red Army has not yet reached Brest, Copenhagen, has not reached anywhere yet, its front-line aviation is a little busy? And here outnumbered (which has never, not a day, had backlashes) the enemy imposes a fight in the air not only in the front-line zone (on, like a strip, the allies have the depth of work tactical aviation under 1000 km, these are not German 100-200), but also in the deep rear? And that your front-line aviation (or rather the aviation of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet) has never seen anything like this in your life, while the enemy has been fighting against the coast for 2 years?

                  The Americans spent weeks wandering in the reach of the Japanese aircraft, how many did the AB manage to bury the samurai there? One? Two? Fatally vulnerable, right? 1-2 medium-caliber bombs, right?
                8. Kwas
                  Kwas 4 December 2020 19: 53
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Nimitz-Potter? Potter doesn't write about tactics.

                  Him, darling. And if the combat schedule is not given, then this does not mean at all that nothing can be understood.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  He categorically did not have time to raise cover fighters during the approach of the detected attacking group. It is impossible to keep a sufficient cover group in the air at all times.
                  Really? Are you talking about Americans in 45?

                  In fact, which of these provisions do you disagree with?
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Anti-aircraft weapons are extremely ineffective.
                  Really? Are you talking about Americans in 45?

                  And what, Essex'y were much better in this respect Yorktown'a and Lexington'a?
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  the allies have a depth of work of tactical aviation under 1000 km,

                  Stirlitz whipped nonsense. Nonsense squealed and burst out. If you were aware of what tactical aviation is doing, you would not have written this. It does not work to such depth even now. The goals are different.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine

                  The Americans spent weeks wandering in the reach of Japanese aircraft,

                  Do not confuse the ocean theater with a narrow shallow sea full of mines. But even in the ocean theater, it is a rare, daring and risky raid, like Doolittle or a raid in the South China Sea. Tell me better, why did the same Americans and Englishmen never enter the same Baltic during the entire war? At least in order to interrupt the Swedish deliveries. And by the way, they did not do this in the First World War.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  And that your front-line aviation (or rather the aviation of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet) has never seen anything like this in your life, while the enemy has been fighting against the coast for 2 years?

                  What if we compare the number of pilots with real combat experience?
                9. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 4 December 2020 22: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: Kwas
                  nothing can be understood.

                  Hmm, an unexpected twist. I did not expect an amateur to walk 2 weeks before Brest to want to read anything and understand anything.

                  If you have read Nimitz-Potter, then you are aware that I am describing the real actions of the 3rd fleet from July 10 to 30, 45. Well, except for understandable geographic changes.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  In fact, which of these provisions do you disagree with?

                  Google Big blue blanket; John Thach
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Essex were in this respect much better than Yorktown and Lexington?

                  Essex 45s vs. Lex and York 42? Generally the earth and the sky.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  If you were aware of what tactical aviation does

                  Your desire to look smart when discussing the war in Europe with me is amazing. Quite recently, you have assessed your knowledge of materiel relatively adequately.

                  OK, we will roll back 1000 km for now. 500 will suit? Of course, I would like to chase Corsair's car for Comrade. Stalin right on the first day of the war, but the pressure on communications between the Dvina and the Vistula will also come down.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Tell me better, why did the same Americans and Englishmen never enter the same Baltic during the whole war?

                  Have you already figured out where Copenhagen is? This might give you a good hint.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  with a narrow shallow sea full of mines.

                  As a matter of fact, I wrote that the only real danger in the Baltic is mines.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  What if we compare the number of pilots with real combat experience?

                  The overwhelming advantage of the allies. Some strange question.
                10. Kwas
                  Kwas 5 December 2020 19: 42
                  0
                  Okay, the conversation has already, to be honest, tired, especially since we speak in a completely different paradigm, we will not come to a consensus and will not argue ... so we will argue on other topics. But in order not to be considered a winner, I ask you to clarify:
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Essex were in this respect much better than Yorktown and Lexington?
                  Essex 45s vs. Lex and York 42? Generally the earth and the sky.

                  - what exactly do you think they are so different? "like the earth and the sky!" And I have a reference book in my hands.
                  Details come on!
                11. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 5 December 2020 20: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Okay, the conversation has, to be honest, tired, especially since we speak in a completely different paradigm, we won't come to a consensus and won't argue

                  Well, you cannot achieve consensus with slogans, and you are clearly not going to go into details.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  - what exactly do you think they are so different? "like the earth and the sky!"

                  Quote: Kwas
                  And I have a reference book in my hands.

                  If you had read the guide, you would not have had such questions.
                  1. In 45 there is an understanding of how to organize air control, in 42 there is no such understanding.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Google Big blue blanket; John Thach

                  2. In the 45th AV it is stupidly more, therefore
                  Quote: Kwas
                  It is impossible to keep a sufficient cover group in the air at all times.

                  When you have 10-15 aircraft carriers at once, a lot becomes easier.
                  3. In the 45th there is air defense of the far zone on radio fuses, in the 42nd 5/38 they work only in the defensive fire mode.
                  4. In the 45th there is an average air defense aura, in the 42nd it is not at all, the Chicago pianos are more analogous to Oerlikon than to Bofors.
                  5. Well, up to a heap of erlikons, as it were, 2-3 times more. A trifle, but nice.
                12. Kwas
                  Kwas 6 December 2020 16: 22
                  0
                  Well, well, the first intelligible arguments in our dialogue. And in general, I more or less agree with everyone. Although 2 and 5 are much more than 3 and 4, which I consider to be more quantitative, but not qualitative, improvement. And with my comments, I first of all had in mind that the Essex were laid according to pre-war projects, and they did not differ in anything of quality, like ships, from the same Lexington, Saratog and others like them. The main idea was to simply rivet them faster and more, well, riveted them, for a total of 24 by 1946. I think we can agree on this.

                  Which does not at all change my conclusions as a whole. Agree, sending 10-15 Essex to the Baltic would be on horseback ... um ... inadequacy. I bow to this. Note that we differ not in access to information, but in the methods of its processing.
                13. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 6 December 2020 17: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Well, well, the first intelligible arguments in our dialogue.

                  Who prevented you from switching to rivets earlier?
                  Quote: Kwas
                  more or less agree with everyone.

                  Challenging iron is much harder than slogans. Therefore, if the parties to the dispute wish to establish an objective reality, at least a limited convergence of positions is inevitable.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  5 much more

                  Oerlikons? They were practically useless, no matter how many. Everything was decided by the competent organization of air control in the DB zone.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  And with my comments, I first of all meant that Essex's were laid according to pre-war projects,

                  It doesn't matter in the least. People and structures are at war, technology is secondary. And the people and structures of 45 had little in common with themselves in 42. As for the pre-war project, this is completely nonsense. The air defense system built according to the pre-war design of Carolina in the 45th year had nothing to do with the project, except for the number of 5/38 towers.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Agree, sending 10-15 Essex to the Baltic would be on horseback ... um ... inadequacy.

                  The forwarding about carrier-based aircraft was made solely because those who like to reach Brest, as a rule, do not perceive the Allied domination at sea as something that matters for the actions of the Red Army. On the other hand, if in the discussed alternative the Allies manage to round off with Japan, then it is at least strange not to use such a force as the American Navy in a new war.
                14. Kwas
                  Kwas 8 December 2020 09: 38
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Agree, sending 10-15 Essex to the Baltic would be on horseback ... um ... inadequacy.

                  The forwarding about carrier-based aircraft was made solely because those who like to reach Brest, as a rule, do not perceive the Allied domination at sea as something that matters for the actions of the Red Army. On the other hand, if in the discussed alternative the Allies manage to round off with Japan, then it is at least strange not to use such a force as the American Navy in a new war.

                  Okay, last comment with illustration.

                  As you rightly pointed out, people and structures are the first to fight (although technology must also be taken into account). Now we look at the picture.
                  As you can see, Essex's began to enter service in 1945, with 31 units entered on December 1945, 13. Accordingly, in the summer of 1945, NONE of them had practical combat experience in finishing off Japan for more than six months. Is it a lot or a little? In general, not so little. Comparable with the Soviet peacetime training, which gave more or less tolerable sergeants. But for the squadron, with what to compare ... And I remembered that the 2nd Pacific squadron had about the same practice at the time of approach to the Tsushima Strait. You might argue that there were experienced people there. Well, yes, they also tried to select better people for the 2nd squadron, more experienced, for example, battalier Novikov, who later wrote a famous book, a good engineer Kostenko, and many others, which, however, did not affect the fate of this squadron. And I think that apparently the same fate would await this squadron, had it been stupid to poke its nose into the Baltic. But you, of course, will strongly disagree.
                15. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 8 December 2020 10: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Kwas
                  last comment with illustration.

                  They took up nonsense.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Essex's began to enter service in 1945

                  What amazing things you read from Nimitz and Potter. So, since the fall of 43, they have been fighting, the first 5.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Comparable with the Soviet peacetime training, which gave more or less tolerable sergeants.

                  Soviet peacetime training gave "passable" sergeants? Six months of combat equals six months of Soviet training? Americans in 45 have no training before entering the war zone?

                  Yes, details are not your strong point.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  2nd Pacific Squadron at the time of approach to the Tsushima Strait

                  In the Tsushima Strait, a superior enemy awaited them. And so yes, that's right.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  But you, of course, will strongly disagree.

                  With such arguments? It would be strange.
                16. Kwas
                  Kwas 8 December 2020 19: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Essex's began to enter service in 1945

                  What amazing things you read from Nimitz and Potter. So, since the fall of 43, they have been fighting, the first 5.

                  Decent capital ships cannot be built quickly, and most importantly, they cannot be commissioned.
                  Nimitz wrote that they "began to arrive at Pearl Harbor." Only about their participation in hostilities - nothing. There is some difference in "launching" and "commissioning". You are not the only one who is in the delusion that the war was won by "beautiful Essex". In fact, the aircraft carriers on which they won the war can rather be called "troughs". By the way, honor and praise to them.
                  The best newly built light aircraft carriers of the "Independens" class were laid down as light cruisers and hastily converted by 1943. But the main force was the escort aircraft carriers. The most massive type (45 units) "Casablanca", had steam piston engines, 18 stroke units and one (!) 127mm gun. Type "Bogue" (10 units) converted from merchant ships, 16,5 knots and already 2-127mm. Type "Sangamon" (5 units with approximately the same characteristics) converted from tankers.
                  And there were three decent aircraft carriers left: "Saratoga", "Enterprise", "Ranger".
                17. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 8 December 2020 22: 27
                  +1
                  Yes, I see that enlightenment was temporary. The combination of your knowledge with your aplomb is inimitable.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Decent capital ships cannot be built quickly, and most importantly, they cannot be commissioned.

                  What a wise remark for Americans in '45.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  There is some difference in "launching" and "commissioning"

                  Another wise remark. I would tell you more, not only Launched and Commissioned are two different dates, but from Commissioned to the first battle star, it takes six months or a year for the crew to master the ship.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Nimitz wrote that they "began to arrive at Pearl Harbor"

                  Since you are on the Internet recently, you still do not know about the Wikipedia resource, where, in particular, you can go to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex-class_aircraft_carrier and pierce the combat path of each ship.
                  Well, if you are not banned there by IP, of course.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  The most popular type (45 units) "Casablanca"

                  Naturally, you do not know that when the first Casablanca was transferred to the fleet, there were already 4 Essexes. Moreover, it is not known that Casablanca was the main aircraft carrier of the 7th Fleet, and 3/5 of them were used for auxiliary tasks - an PLO ship and air transport.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  And there were three decent aircraft carriers left: "Saratoga", "Enterprise", "Ranger".

                  Against the background of everything else, the Ranger that surfaced in the Pacific Ocean is no longer surprising
                  .
                  Quote: Kwas
                  You are not the only one who is in the delusion that the war was won by "beautiful Essex".

                  I did not discuss the war for maintenance with you, therefore you do not know anything about my delusions about this. But with such ammunition you should hardly get involved in this discussion.
                18. Kwas
                  Kwas 12 December 2020 10: 11
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Since you are on the Internet recently, you still do not know about the Wikipedia resource,

                  I know, I know, but in principle I don’t go, because the resource is extremely deceitful and politicized. That's who it belongs to, you know? Me not. Therefore, it is impossible to say what is true on it (although it happens), and what is not. And therefore to believe and refer. But your right.
                19. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 12 December 2020 11: 32
                  0
                  Did you forget to wear your foil hat?
                  1. The resource is really very deceitful. Because it postulates the good intentions of the user. Accordingly, many users who obviously cannot have good intentions (for example, employees of Russian state organizations) go to articles of interest to them, primarily in the Cyrillic segment, but not only, and write complete nonsense there. For example, it is difficult to find an article even on a separate operation of the Second World War, where the losses, primarily German, but also Soviet ones, would be adequately indicated.
                  2. However, it should not be inferred from this that hosts of Wikipedia They lie about the participation of the Essex type AV in hostilities specifically to humiliate you. Vika is a kind of starting point when it comes to facts, not estimates. That is, the reference to it is sufficient, but the refutation of its data requires substantiation by more authoritative sources.
                  3. As if you were ever interested in the work of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc
                20. Kwas
                  Kwas 14 December 2020 21: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  That is, a reference to it is sufficient, but the refutation of its data requires substantiation by more authoritative sources.

                  To begin with, I brought you a more authoritative source - a photo of the official directory "foreign military fleets". Which you dismissed with the words "engaged in nonsense." Now I am returning your words about Vicki to you. Any fact presented there can be much more bullshit.
                  Here is my assessment of the credibility of Wiki: "Wikipedia is an honor of the Western propaganda system, the main task of which is to convince more people that the Western bourgeois civilization is the only one that has the right to exist. Its other task is to create a false sense of information in people and wean them from thinking, replacing the process of thinking with a process of "finding information". "
                  So a hat in our time is a necessary accessory, otherwise you can get very poisoned with false information at the system level.
                  Yes, there are mistakes in reference books, but you have to prove them with something comparable. Your infa is less reliable.
                21. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 15 December 2020 02: 16
                  0
                  Quote: Kwas
                  authoritative source - photo of the official directory "foreign military fleets"

                  SHTO !! ?? Are you trying to dismiss Soviet antiques from the fact that the first combat operation specifically CV-9 is May 43?

                  I have to inform you that none work that could have been an "authoritative source" was not published in the USSR. Moreover, this is not about American AB, but about any topic in general.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Wikipedia is the honor of the Western propaganda system, whose main task is to convince more people that the Western bourgeois civilization is the only one that has the right to exist.

                  Oh my God. Don't miss your medication.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  So a hat in our time is a necessary accessory,

                  No, no, I have nothing against it, wear it. All the best.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 27 November 2020 09: 22
    +3
    But was Comrade Stalin a "faithful Leninist" that's a question.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 27 November 2020 15: 25
      +1
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      But was Comrade Stalin a "faithful Leninist" that's a question.

      And what is causing this question?
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 27 November 2020 16: 02
        -2
        And how many loyal Leninists were killed in 37, no "loyal Leninist" is the title that crowns the winner.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 27 November 2020 16: 04
          +2
          Well, why are you depriving Stalin of this title? Although, why did you decide that it was the "loyal Leninists" who were killed? Why do they have such titles?
          1. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 27 November 2020 18: 48
            0
            The question is in the consistency of terminology, why there is no true Socratic or Darwinist title, but there is a Leninist. What is the criterion to evaluate?
            1. Red Alert
              Red Alert 27 November 2020 21: 10
              +2
              Following the principles of Marxism-Leninism. Stalin followed these principles. It is by this criterion to evaluate.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 27 November 2020 07: 11
    0
    The third article by A. Samsonov on a topical topic. The first is about the state of the modern Russian army, the second is about the collapse of education in Russia and today is an article-comparison of the country's leadership in the post-war decade and now, although it is called "Steel against the atom .....", but the vector is clear to us.
    It feels like either somewhere the "window" was opened or everything was so "leaky" that it was already blowing from all the cracks.
    You can talk about the article in the context of the historical and artistic, but the article is not about the past, but about the present.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 27 November 2020 16: 35
      +1
      Quote: ee2100
      It feels like either somewhere the "window" was opened or everything was so "leaky" that it was already blowing from all the cracks.

      Rather, the latter - there are more and more holes and cracks, they are torn everywhere and creeping apart at the seams. But they will never open the "vents" for us, on the contrary they hammer them with nails tightly.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 27 November 2020 07: 46
    +11
    Many large cities in Russia such as Minsk, Stalingrad, Sevastopol and Kiev
    Obscurantism on Fridays from Samsonov continues.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 27 November 2020 08: 07
      +11
      [i] The USSR did not get involved in an expensive race to create strategic aviation and aircraft carriers.
      The USSR got involved in this race in 1943, when work was resumed on the design of strategic bombers, without which the atomic project did not make sense, aircraft carriers and aircraft for aircraft carriers.
      And in 1945, in order not to lag behind in this race, all their own work on strategic bombers was stopped and focused on copying the B-29.
      Samsonov moved from mockery of the superethnos to mockery of the history of the USSR.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 11: 55
        +4
        Quote: Undecim
        Samsonov moved from mockery of the superethnos to mockery of the history of the USSR.

        Did you just notice? Samsonov has his own vision of Russia and the Russians and his own vision of the USSR. It is funny in its own way, but, admittedly, quite complete.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 27 November 2020 11: 56
          +4
          Do you find this twisting of history funny?
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 12: 01
            +5
            I think this is a hudlite. The work of Mr. Samsonov and many others has nothing to do with history.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 27 November 2020 12: 05
              +6
              However, this is published in the "History" section, by Samsonov, by the way, led by, and a certain contingent is perceived in this way.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 12: 20
                +4
                Quote: Undecim
                Samsonov, by the way, headed by

                Really? Did not know. Then it's even more fun. What historians, such is history.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 November 2020 08: 05
    -3
    I, of course, apologize, but in the 1940s the atomic bomb was not a superweapon simply due to its limitations, so they could make plans in the west, but unlike Japan, the 45th Soviet air defense had fuel, and they could only break through to the targets large formations of bombers, but when you already have hundreds of planes flying, then an atomic bomb of 10-20kt is not needed.

    Well, then the USSR also got bombs. In Europe, there was no one to fight against the USSR at that time.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 27 November 2020 11: 26
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      I'm sorry, of course, but in the 1940s the atomic bomb was not a superweapon.

      In the second half of the 40s of the last century, the atomic bomb was not some kind of superweapon for the United States because the number of bombs was limited, and if something happened, the tank columns of the USSR would sweep away all American bases from Europe and Africa. The Americans will not fight the enemy if he can give an adequate answer.
      Quote: EvilLion
      You may be breaking through, but what does Putin have to do with pulling the country out of the ruin of the 90s?

      Why are you here attributing nonexistent merit to anyone. Take a look here:

      Sword blade - double-edged, pointed, convex, without a fuller, model "Crusader", hand forged from first-class Sheffield steel. The blade is 36 inches long (about 91,4 cm). On the blade, the inscriptions in Russian and English are etched with acid:
      TO CITIZENS OF STALINGRAD • STRONG AS STEEL • FROM KING GEORGE VI • IN THE SIGN OF DEEP ADMISSION OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE
      TO THE STEEL-HEARTED CITIZENS OF STALINGRAD • THE GIFT OF KING GEORGE VI • IN TOKEN OF THE HOMAGE OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE

      Now tell us, could any head of any state have passed the temporary detention facility? Which of the Western rulers gave GDP some attribute for "saving Russia"?
      When there is a talk about Stalin, it is not worthwhile to insert into comparison small political figures.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 27 November 2020 11: 52
        +3
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Which of the Western rulers gave GDP some attribute for "saving Russia"?

        And thank God that he didn’t. For Western leaders are now also not the same - and the attribute for saving Russia from them can only be regarded as for loyal service to the West.

        Faithful, brave, obedient. ©
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 11: 53
        0
        Quote: ROSS 42
        and if something happened, the tank columns of the USSR would sweep away all American bases from Europe and Africa.

        In reality, it was relatively acceptable with Soviet tank columns in the 70s - early 80s. As for the late 40s, Comrade Stalin clearly felt the pistol at the back of his head, and only an incredibly lucky coincidence allowed him to take the jackpot.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 27 November 2020 15: 10
          0
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          As for the end of the 40s, Comrade Stalin clearly felt the pistol at the back of his head, and only an incredibly lucky coincidence allowed him to take the jackpot.

          Yes, there and in the early 50s, everything was not so cloudless. Remember the air defense exercises of 1950, when our valiant defenders of the skies managed to pass an entire Tu-4 air division through the strongest air defense region in the country - Moskovsky.
          The main drawback in the actions of the reflecting side is the unpunished passage of the main forces of the attacking side's aviation (45 Tbad) through the Moscow Air Defense Region to a target located in the interior of the country.
          Despite the fact that the flight of the main forces and auxiliary groups of the attacking aviation was timely detected by the BNOC air defense service of the country, the command of the Moscow Air Defense District incorrectly assessed the air situation and did not attach importance to the reports of the BNOC posts on the rotation of the main forces to the south. A single aircraft, following a given route 400 km from the actual flight route of the main forces, was incorrectly and biasedly considered by the command of the Moscow Air Defense District as the main target, and it raised seven fighter regiments to reflect it.
          © Order on the results of the bilateral aviation exercise of the Air Force of the Soviet Army and Air Defense Forces of the country No. 00171 August 16, 1950
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 38
            +2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Yes, there and in the early 50s, everything was not so cloudless. Remember the air defense exercises of 1950, when our valiant defenders of the skies managed to pass an entire Tu-4 air division through the strongest air defense region in the country - Moskovsky.

            And these were not B-36s, which is typical.

            But, you see, I'm a big fan of the Unthinkable / War-Proposal in Europe. Later versions with nuclear weapons do not stick me in. I have never been a fan of Douay's ideas as presented by Harris.

            And so, yes, the opportunity to burn with moderate risk among partners remained until the mid-60s.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 27 November 2020 18: 18
              +2
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              And these were not B-36s, which is typical.

              Well, even the MiG-36 could have problems with intercepting the B-15. However, the "Peacemaker" had its own troubles - you remember about
              two turning, two burning, two smoking, two choking, and two more unaccounted for.
              And the tornado on AB Karswell battered the SAC quite well.
              On the other hand, in 1951, SAC began to receive the B-47. And behind him - fifteen hundred, Yes...
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 19: 18
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                even the MiG-15

                First of all, the MiG-15 with its swept wing at such altitudes had problems, oddly enough.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                And the tornado on AB Karswell battered the SAC quite well.

                Well, and if the Yellowstone volcano had zhahnul, then generally kirdyk this your America. In reality, a tornado of September 51 destroyed 1 (one) aircraft. Of the damaged 51 aircraft were repaired within a month, the remaining 25 - within a year. Produced nearly 400.

                I'm not sure that natural phenomena at enemy bases are what you should count on when organizing air defense.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion 27 November 2020 12: 46
        -2
        Wasn't that Churchill who before that participated in the intervention against the Soviet Republic, and was ready to praise even the Devil if hell begins to fight Hitler? And in '47 he delivered the Fulton speech that started the Cold War?

        Why should a reward from such a person, who is respected in Russia as an intelligent and strong adversary, and who personally respected Vissarionych, as a Politician Politician, should mean something? Maybe then EBNa remember? The whole world made fun of him and Russia, and all the rules were. Putin came, somehow they stopped making fun, we are already appointing US presidents.
      4. Kwas
        Kwas 28 November 2020 13: 01
        0
        Quote: ROSS 42
        When there is a talk about Stalin, it is not worthwhile to insert into comparison small political figures.

        Putin is not petty, and definitely a hero, because he risked his head. Did little? Yes, but we don't know, maybe the general solution is more correct. War does not threaten us yet, and we can wait a bit for the moment when the dollar empire will collapse. Against this background, any reforms will go easier.
      5. kalibr
        kalibr 28 November 2020 15: 42
        0
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Which of the Western rulers gave GDP some attribute for "saving Russia"?

        Tsatski, even expensive in price, are cheap in politics!
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 November 2020 08: 10
    +1
    The division of Germany for the USSR did not mean anything good, Stalin would have preferred one neutral Germany, fewer points of conflict, but he could hardly prevent the creation of the FRG.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 11: 46
      +1
      Quote: EvilLion
      Stalin would have preferred one neutral Germany, fewer points of conflict, but he could hardly prevent the creation of the FRG.

      Stalin would have preferred the GDR to France. But since in the FRG the dispute between the CDU and the SPD over the Reds took place along the "shoot or plant" line (for the shootings there were Social Democrats), we had to take a tit in our hands.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 27 November 2020 10: 53
    +7
    Samsonov, as always, is in his tight illusory world in which insurmountable contradictions coexist, which have nothing to do with reality!
    (With the help of building up the power of the ground and air forces, the development of air defense forces, the creation of ballistic missiles and their own nuclear weapons. The USSR did not become involved in an expensive race to create strategic aviation and aircraft carriers.) Is that how he didn't get involved in the arms race? It was a real arms race, while the USSR was constantly catching up! The thesis that strategic aviation was not created is generally beyond reality! To understand this, you just need to know at least Soviet history, which, by the way, was not hidden! Tu-4, also sawn through by reverse engineering V-29, Tu-95, M-4. This is all strategic aviation that was supposed to deliver Uncle Joe's gifts to the shores and cities of America! For a large fleet, I just keep silent! All these 30 bis, fifty kopecks, Project 68 cruisers and unfinished battleships with heavy cruisers, this is just from the arms race and the construction of a large fleet.
    The sub-point for the Berlin lesson is generally epic! (Stalin, who disagreed with the decision to create a Western German state, blocked Berlin, which was inside the Soviet zone of occupation.

    Soviet troops closed the railways and highways in East Germany, which led to the western sectors of Berlin, controlled by the United States, Britain and France. Then the water transport was also blocked. The Western powers organized an airlift from Berlin. The blockade lasted for a year.

    At the same time, the Union did not block the supply of food, fuel and necessary goods for the inhabitants of the western sectors of Berlin.
    )
    And what did the Union then block that? Again, Samsonov's personality is irritated. And just the same Berdin blockade showed that the same mattresses with allies with transport aircraft are doing very well! And the air bridge provided West Berlin with everything it needed for a WHOLE year!
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 27 November 2020 12: 58
      -1
      It is very difficult to provide everything necessary for a settlement of several hundred thousand inhabitants, if not a million, even if transport, since roads are needed with the appropriate. bandwidth.
  • Old Orc
    Old Orc 27 November 2020 11: 38
    +4
    I will say that I will definitely not like it. As a person born in the USSR, I am jarred by this article. Each sentence about the great achievements of the Soviet Union is written: Russia, Russians, the great Russian, Russian emperor. All this is an attempt by small-town nationalists to cling to the achievements of a country where people were Soviet, which is equal to the word Internationalist. There was no great Russian idea there. There was a socialist idea of ​​equality. Although one cannot but admit the historical facts are presented correctly. and Goebel's ratio of falsehood and truth is observed. 90 truths 10 lies
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 11: 42
      +4
      Quote: Old Orc
      Each sentence about the great achievements of the Soviet Union is written: Russia, Russians, the great Russian, Russian emperor.

      This is Samsonov, he sees so.
      Quote: Old Orc
      Although one cannot but admit the historical facts are presented correctly.

      Almost completely navran.
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 11: 41
    +1
    As always, I am ready to support another historical miniature of Samsonov. A new Pikul is growing.

    Unfortunately, I missed the details again, but on the whole I was right again. The years of unconditional domination by the United States - both the 40s, 50s, and the 90s - were wasted by partners. Having won, they each time tried to pupate, withdraw into themselves, as a result of which new enemies grew here and there.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 27 November 2020 13: 21
      +3
      Not in the order of the Friday duel, but what were the partners supposed to do, say, in the 90s? To squeeze Russia to disintegration into bantustans like LDNR without big dad, but with nuclear weapons ?. To get Pan-Turkism and Great China from ocean to ocean already in the 2000s?
      And why should the current state of affairs and today's Russia not suit the United States?
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 13: 28
        0
        )))
        In the 90s, partners had the opportunity to put the squeeze on everything. And the PRC, and the DPRK, and Latin America, and the Russian Federation, and, most importantly, their own left. Fortunately, in a short period of the late 80s and early 90s, the authorities of the USSR / RF were ready to talk about all the achievements of Soviet power both inside the USSR and outside it, as a result of which any pro-Soviet views could become a complete mess.

        At the very least, the partners had the opportunity to impose global nuclear disarmament. They didn't even try to do it.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 27 November 2020 13: 38
          +1
          They put a good squeeze on, further increasing spending on maintaining the status quo. How is it in the Greek parable about the tyrant who cut the spikelets?
          Plus, there are no final victories - you can recall the confrontation between Rome and the Germans.
          In the 90s, partners had the opportunity to put the squeeze on everything.

          Old threats go away, new and unpredictable ones appear. Parthia left, the Sassanids came. The Goths and Alans weakened, the Huns came. Rome in all cases only got worse.
          At the very least, the partners had the opportunity to impose global nuclear disarmament. They didn't even try to do it.

          The same China cannot be endured forever. He's like a Phoenix bird. A resurgent China in a world without nuclear weapons? The gift is difficult to overestimate.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 13: 46
            -1
            Quote: Engineer
            Plus, there are no final victories

            You do not have a globalist mindset. The threats posed to the United States, for example, by Japan, have nothing to do with nuclear ash, which knocks at the hearts of various dictatorships that have imagined themselves. Victory is the victory of the new rules of the game, first of all.
            As for the PRC, the conditional PRC, in which only three out of 23 provinces belong to the Republic of China (for example, three provinces between Shanghai and Hong Kong. Including both cities) - this is already a little different China. Let yourself be reborn in health. In this case, it is not even necessary to play with cards and felt-tip pens. Did you want two systems in one country? Well then.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 27 November 2020 13: 51
              +2
              You do not have a globalist mindset.

              There is such a thing. But yours is hyperglobalistic).
              There was such a concept in the United States of "five years - five countries" to restore partial order in the world. And the countries were, it would seem - spit and rub. Remind me how it ended?
              And here you are cutting nuclear China in the region with a clerical knife.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 14: 12
                0
                Quote: Engineer
                There was such a concept in the USA "five years - five countries"

                Yes?
                Quote: Engineer
                And here you are cutting nuclear China in the region with a clerical knife.

                And what about nuclear China? Just in the early 90s, it was possible to agree, either to eat or to rockets. By the way, not only with China.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 27 November 2020 14: 26
                  +1
                  Yes?

                  Yes
                  And what about nuclear China? Just in the early 90s, it was possible to agree, either to eat or to rockets. By the way, not only with China.

                  Eat, of course, and then, as we eat, we will transfer half of the US industry to ourselves, again for missiles. No problem. This is if you play along

                  But seriously and, so to speak, ril politics, it is still easier
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 14: 32
                    0
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Yes

                    I see only conspiracy theorists mentioned about this "plan".
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Eat of course, and then, as we eat, we will transfer half of the US industry to ourselves

                    And to which of the two Chinas will the industry be transferred? Do you well understand which provinces I wrote about?
                    Quote: Engineer
                    it's still easier

                    What's so simple? It was this comrade who appeared because of unresolved problems in time. If the South Koreans had a Jewish temperament, no one would know about this comrade. Do you hear a lot about Abdullah II?
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 27 November 2020 14: 57
                      +1
                      There seemed to be a long-standing article in NYT, although I know what you say is even worse than conspiracy theorists)
                      You see, I proceed from what I see.
                      The United States is now unable to solve the main tasks - containing the proliferation of nuclear weapons, countering the growing influence of geopolitical rivals. Their army solves military tasks, but 100% fails post-war, although they should also be able to solve them (in colonial times, white people could at least).
                      Now I'm just making an analogy with the 90s. On the one hand, the opponents are many times weaker, but on the other hand, the goals and objectives are more complex and global, too, at least several times. Why should they do it? Moreover, your plan does not give the enemy hope for a compromise; there is no talk of saving face. That means they will fight to the last citizen.
                      And most importantly, why does the United States need to continue fighting in the 90s? Where is the rationale? Why raise rates after winning a game? Why bear the risks ourselves if it is easier to leave possible problems in the future for posterity? T
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Their army solves military tasks, but 100% fails post-war

                        The army a priori cannot decide post-war tasks.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Moreover, your plan does not give the enemy hope for a compromise; there is no talk of saving face. That means they will fight to the last citizen.

                        What other compromise? What makes you think that the Chinese of the 90s agreed to the DPRK's position? What makes you think that the aforementioned Jordan, which has lost its face, lives worse than Syria, which has not lost its face? Including guidance?
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Why bear the risks ourselves if it is easier to leave possible problems in the future for posterity?

                        In this you are right. This is a universal argument for all such cases.
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 27 November 2020 15: 10
                        +1
                        The army a priori cannot solve post-war tasks.

                        All my life I have decided and will decide. The occupation of the Ruhr, the occupation of Germany, the entry of troops into Hungary, etc.
                        What other compromise? What makes you think that the Chinese of the 90s agreed to the DPRK's position?

                        Any change in course is a threat to the existing elite. In most cases, the threat is quite real. And the decisions are made by the elite.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 44
                        0
                        Quote: Engineer
                        All my life I have decided and will decide. Occupation of the Ruhr, occupation of Germany,

                        So-so examples. The role of the army itself was nominal there.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        And the decisions are made by the elite.

                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 27 November 2020 15: 56
                        +1
                        There is nowhere more nominal.
                        3 million nominal man-dugs in 1949. Only from the Soviet side.

                        West is West, East is East
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 16: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        West is West, East is East

                        And where is the elite?
                        Quote: Engineer
                        3 million nominal man-dugs in 1949. Only from the Soviet side.

                        And what has the Soviet side got to do with it? The GSVG never solved any "post-war tasks". Post-war problems were solved and solved by Adenauer.
                      6. Engineer
                        Engineer 27 November 2020 16: 08
                        0
                        And where is the elite?

                        Where it should be, gives orders from the palaces.
                        And what has the Soviet side got to do with it? GSVG never solved any "post-war tasks"

                        But I think that it was quite decided. And it all started with occupation tasks, as befits an army of victors. Ensured the reliability of acquisitions and the strength of the new administration
                        And the allies too. The Germans themselves, without an occupying army, you know, will not denazify.
                      7. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 16: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The Germans themselves, without an occupying army, you know, will not denazify.

                        This is a common mistake. Denazification was the choice of the German leadership. Where they did not consider it necessary to do this, no one is notinoin. Austria, Japan, Italy.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Where it should be, gives orders from the palaces.

                        The elite give orders to the military. Only in Romania and other places it suddenly turned out to be some other elite, and not those people who just a week ago considered themselves as such. Speaking of real-life politics and opportunities lost in the 90s.
                      8. Engineer
                        Engineer 27 November 2020 16: 27
                        +1
                        However, without an occupying army, there is a possibility of people coming to power for whom denazification is not an option at all.
                        The elite give orders to the military. Only in Romania and other places it was suddenly some other elite, and not those people who just a week ago considered themselves as such

                        No contradictions.
                        In Romania, there was a stupid, soft-bodied elite.
                        In China, it is firmer, and most importantly, united with the army by corporate interests. The end is a little predictable. The message to the entire population in 1989 was given absolutely unambiguous.
                        However, I did not plan to discuss, only to clarify the position.
                        Have a nice weekend.
                      9. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 16: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        stupid, soft-bodied elite.

                        Gosha. I didn't expect it.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Have a nice weekend.

                        drinks
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 27 November 2020 16: 15
              +1
              And where does the wife of Ceausescu have to do with it?
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 15: 06
    0
    global nuclear disarmament
    This is an unconditional surrender to China.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 10
      -1
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      This is an unconditional surrender to China.

      Really? Somehow it is not yet striking.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 15: 41
        0
        Tell us how you will fight them without nuclear weapons, how can you stop the infiltration of small groups of a million fighters each? And with the military spirit they had normal machine guns of the Japanese went with swords, and with weapons, too, nothing.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 46
          0
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          Tell me how you will fight them without nuclear weapons

          And what did they fight in Korea? Did your groups fight with swords a lot there?
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          the infiltration of small groups of a million fighters each?

          Through which border will they leak? Canadian, Mexican?
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 27 November 2020 15: 51
            0
            And what did they fight in Korea?
            Expeditionary corps of volunteers. Limited presence. Result - Kim is still there. If you fight directly with China, everything will be more fun. It's like crushing one snake with your heel, or jumping into a pit with a hundred snakes.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 15: 58
              0
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              It's like crushing one snake with your heel - or jumping into a hole with a hundred snakes.

              Lots of lyrics. In real life, the general forces of the northerners, mainly Chinese - half of the current PLA in number.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 27 November 2020 13: 43
    +1
    A new Pikul is growing.
    If this is satire, then it is bitter.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 27 November 2020 13: 47
      -1
      Quote: Undecim
      then bitter.

      )))
      I have not been able to be outraged by his work for a long time.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 27 November 2020 16: 34
    +1
    "as a result of which new enemies grew here and there," "and what now, cry for poor America?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 27 November 2020 16: 11
    +2
    Oh, Samsonov can’t be without booming slogans.
    Samsonov, does not remember what was in Damansky in 1968?
    Does he know this definition: "situational ally"?
  • Jünger
    Jünger 27 November 2020 18: 52
    -1
    This is how Stalin outplayed the West.

    Poor west. I only read the last sentence in the article and understood everything laughing
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 27 November 2020 19: 40
    +1
    The author correctly evaluates the international activities of I.V. Stalin, but incorrectly calls him the Red Emperor. This belittling the role of I.V. Stalin in the fate of the whole world.
    Marxist-Bolshevik I.V. Stalin was the leader of the world proletariat, and this title is much higher than the "Red Emperor".
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 27 November 2020 19: 48
    +4
    "The last victories of the red emperor" is the author, but Stalin and the then members of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) would have liked such a title.? Something tells me that the members of the then Central Committee did not approve of such a title.
    P
    S
    Author, if you are talking about that period, use the appropriate name: Soviet Union. Probably Stalin also supported. would be my comment.
    I don’t know about the author, but it gives me pleasure to say: SOVIET UNION. It reminds me of my childhood.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 27 November 2020 19: 55
    +2
    Quote: Undecim
    A new Pikul is growing.
    If this is satire, then it is bitter.

    Pikul is interesting to read: he aroused interest in history, while Samsonov has the opposite phenomenon: interest in history disappears
  • SaLaR
    SaLaR 27 November 2020 22: 38
    0
    Or maybe change the words Russia to the USSR ... In addition to Russia, there were 14 more republics ... no need to pull the whole blanket over yourself ..
    Many large cities in Russia such as Minsk, Stalingrad, Sevastopol and Kiev
  • Fat
    Fat 28 November 2020 00: 19
    +1
    Quote: Red Alert
    Following the principles of Marxism-Leninism. Stalin followed these principles. It is by this criterion to evaluate.

    Stalin was a statesman was he not?
    "The state is an apparatus of violence in the hands of the ruling class" V.I. Lenin. Under communism (socialism is the lowest stage of communism according to Marx) is there a division of society into classes?
    “The proletariat needs the state - all the opportunists repeat this,” wrote Lenin in 1917, a month or two before the conquest of power, “but they, the opportunists, forget to add that the proletariat needs only a dying state, that is, one that is arranged in such a way that it immediately began to wither away and could not but wither away "(" The State and Revolution ").
    "Officials and a standing army," writes Lenin, "are a parasite on the body of bourgeois society, a parasite generated by internal contradictions that are tearing this society apart, but it is precisely a parasite that plugs the pores of life."
    It was no coincidence that Lenin did not dwell on such a contradiction: he did not foresee such a prolonged isolation of the Soviet state.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 28 November 2020 15: 49
      0
      Quote: Thick
      It was no coincidence that Lenin did not dwell on such a contradiction: he did not foresee such a prolonged isolation of the Soviet state.

      Well said! He still did not foresee many things ...
      1. Left shot
        Left shot 5 December 2020 07: 09
        -1
        For example, what have you not yet foreseen?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 5 December 2020 07: 38
          0
          In his work "The Tasks of the Proletariat in Our Revolution," he wrote about the "petty-bourgeois wave" that swept the class-conscious proletariat in numbers and ideology. Roughly - the peasants pushed themselves into the cities and overflowed ... Patriarchalism, paternalism - that's what they brought. Well, after all, the wave did not go anywhere afterwards. And he wrote from this, but did not foresee that such "waves" will continue and we will drown in them, like in a swamp! And so it happened!
          1. Left shot
            Left shot 5 December 2020 23: 23
            -1
            I don’t understand that Lenin did not foresee it here. What you describe is just what you foresaw.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 29 November 2020 16: 14
    +1
    Quote: Nagan
    It's just that China consumes too many resources, and most importantly, produces so much waste, in no small part ecologically dangerous, that the ball can not withstand. China smoked with opium and divided into spheres of influence as it was before Mao

    China consumes several times less resources per person and produces even less waste than the USA, Europe and Japan.
    Without the PRC, after the collapse of the USSR, this is a new world war, the collapse and division of Russia into spheres of influence.
    Stalin had to be beaten for more than 10 years and together with Mao they could liquidate the imperialism of the USA and the whole world and save humanity forever from wars, economic crises, famine, pandemics, etc.
  • Petr Vladimirovich
    Petr Vladimirovich 29 November 2020 17: 49
    0
    Excellent discussion, I enjoy reading ...
  • prokhorovalexey
    prokhorovalexey 27 January 2021 20: 09
    0
    Well and vomit
  • Inn2621
    Inn2621 2 February 2021 16: 32
    0
    What makes you think that the United States was capable of starting a new war? He and Adolf pulled to the last. And then attack the USSR. For what? What is the benefit?
  • Vladimir Maximov
    Vladimir Maximov 17 February 2021 18: 16
    0
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