6th generation fighter vs 5th generation fighter: main differences

Advanced aircraft of the 6th generation F-X from the Lockheed Martin corporation

Recently, more and more talk about the creation of a sixth generation fighter. The other day, Anatoly Serdyukov, industrial director of the aviation complex of the Rostec state corporation, said that such an aircraft could be created jointly by MiG and Sukhoi companies.

The main characteristics of the sixth generation fighter

Meanwhile, 4 years ago, the head of the directorate of military programs aviation United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Vladimir Mikhailov even named the approximate time frame for the creation of the sixth generation fighter - it could make its first flight until 2025. The two most common characteristics of a promising aircraft are hypersonic speed and unmanned control capability.

Following the development and widespread use of unmanned aerial vehicles, the question arose about the possibility of creating such a control system for fighters that would make it possible to control not only with the help of a pilot in the cockpit, but also remotely. It is unmanned control that is now considered as one of the most important characteristics of the sixth generation fighter.

However, it is not so easy to achieve such a result in which the aircraft not only becomes unmanned, but also becomes invulnerable from the enemy's electronic warfare systems. After all, electronic warfare also does not stand still: laser protection systems will be able to fight remotely controlled aircraft.

As the experience of experiments in which the most successful in the United States shows, a manned aircraft cannot cope with an aircraft controlled using artificial intelligence. It is clear that so far this is only a simulation of a battle on an aircraft simulator, but given the pace at which technologies are developing now, there is no doubt that this issue will still be resolved in the foreseeable future.

At one time, Sergey Khokhlov, head of the State Research Institute of Aviation Systems, said that it was unmanned control that would become the fundamental criterion for a sixth generation fighter, while all other characteristics would only be the development of existing technologies.

Other characteristics usually include hypersonic speed, stealth technology of the highest level, efficiency in all existing flight modes, extremely high maneuverability, smart coverage and even the presence weapons directional energy.

Fifth and sixth generations of fighters: what are the differences

A model for creating such a fighter in Russia, according to a number of experts, could be the Okhotnik strike unmanned aerial vehicle, which includes a number of elements that will be present in a sixth generation fighter. In addition, of course, the creation of a new fighter will be a continuation of the experience of developing a promising Su-57 fighter.

Fighter aircraft of the 5th generation Su-57

Not only in Russia, but also in other countries, they are thinking about such an aircraft. The United States is at the forefront, where the leading aircraft corporations, primarily Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, offer their own ideas and designs for sixth generation aircraft.

In the UK, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Leonardo and MBDA are working on the sixth generation fighter project on behalf of the Ministry of Defense. The promising BAE Systems Tempest aircraft is expected to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon by the 2030s, a fourth-generation fighter in service with a number of European and non-European states. Of course, China will also try to keep up.

The main distinguishing feature of the sixth generation fighter from the fifth generation fighter will be the ability to remotely control, without the need for the pilot to be in the cockpit of the aircraft. If a fifth-generation fighter has super-maneuverability and the use of stealth technologies among the most important characteristics, then a sixth-generation fighter, developing these qualities, at the same time acquires the ability to unmanned control using artificial intelligence.

Probably, the sixth generation fighters can acquire the ability to take off due to new engines, which will also become an important difference from previous fighters and will significantly expand the possibilities for combat use.

It is possible that multifunctionality will become another distinctive feature of the new aircraft. He will be able to perform the functions of not only a fighter, but also an attack aircraft and a bomber, which will allow him to quickly solve a variety of tasks set by the command without prejudice to each of these functions of a combat aircraft.

The material was released in the section "News"for technical reasons.

Comments

[Ka-52]

The main distinguishing feature of the sixth generation fighter

"distinctive features" are determined by the design specification. When the Ministry of Defense forms a TT package, then we can talk about how the future car will look in the future. In the meantime, this is the verbiage of amateurs to define the criteria for "generations". Because today there is no technical task either in the USA, or in European countries, or in Russia. There are attempts to describe the concept, but no more

[mark2]

When the Ministry of Defense forms a package of TT, then we can talk about how the future car will look in the future.

As Marx wrote in his time, not only the demand forms the supply, rather, on the contrary, the supply affects the demand. Those. in order for the Ministry of Defense to issue TT for new weapons, it is necessary to analyze what developments and their prospects already exist. Otherwise, you can issue a TT on an imperial destroyer-class cruiser, but you can hardly wait for it.

[Ruswolf]

Quote: mark2

Those. in order for the Ministry of Defense to issue TT for new weapons, it is necessary to analyze what developments and their prospects already exist.

I don't quite agree. Because it turns out like this - There are developments that we have done, but they are not implemented. Choose and order. Why not? it is not known whether it will be at all.
In general, this approach is more suitable for the development of "5+" or "5 ++", but not like no six.
And the lack of technical specifications for the six is ​​due to the fact that the videoconferencing has not yet fully mastered the top five, not fully probed (not the testers, but in parts).

[mark2]

I partially agree. But still, not all developments may not be implemented, because they may be within the framework of military enterprises, which are a priori prohibited, to introduce anything new anywhere without the knowledge of the Ministry of Defense.
On the other hand, if you take the 4th generation and put the engines, exaggeratedly, that develop supersonic without afterburner, it will be the 5th generation or 4+.
Innovations for older generations give advantages to a generation, as I understand it. And the construction of a new apparatus, on which all the innovations worked out on the existing generations are applied, which leads to the creation of a fundamentally new product, this is a new generation. As I understand it.

[smel]

I agree with you. But as I see in the first sentence the phrase about Serdyukov - everything else loses its meaning.

[military_cat]

The material was published in the "News" section for technical reasons.

This is a sign from above - stop fooling around and bring back the old design. At least until the new one reaches parity in functionality.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: mark2

On the other hand, if you take the 4th generation and put the engines, exaggeratedly, that develop supersonic without afterburner, it will be the 5th generation or 4+.

Not quite so, in general, the concept of "generation" in the modern "PR-version" came from the IT field and there it is clearly defined that the new generation is then and only then, when it won't work in the old(when there is no and cannot be backward compatibility)... In the case of a difference between 4 +++++ and 5, it is stealthy, and backward compatibility is impossible there for "radar shielding of engine blades" (s-shaped duct), "radar shielding of the power supply unit" (internal location of the power supply unit), "radar shielding of the fuselage" (special shapes, materials and coatings).
Therefore, the sixth generation must have something that cannot be realized in the fifth, of the possible options (the mention of which I have met) "tailless scheme" (no vertical tail and deep integration of the horizontal tail into the fuselage), "VTOL scheme" (fundamentally new engines that could, in theory, allow a new aircraft to replace helicopters (assault) and fighters (MFI)), "orbitoplane / cosmoplane schemes" (bypassing air defense not near the ground (as in the previous scheme), but in space). In general, this sixth generation should have something that will provide new tactical and / or strategic opportunities.

[mark2]

Yes, I completely agree with you.
It was just about developing new technologies.
If you create the 6th generation from scratch, then it can take a lot of time, and maybe most of the technologies it makes economic sense to work out for 4-5 generations. For example, if we are talking about the introduction of artificial intelligence in aviation, then this can be tested on the Su-57. It's not worth building a new plane for this. And when it becomes clear that it works, then it is possible to introduce it for the 6th generation. While the tests are being carried out, the glider will be in time for both engines and weapons.
Well, the meaning is clear, I think.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Alexander, look more closely at what I have highlighted in bold, "when it will not work in the old one (when there is no and cannot be backward compatibility)"(read the section "briefly" about versioning https://semver.org/lang/ru/). In this regard, the introduction of remote control and / or the introduction of SOCM (self-optimizing computational modules) and / or the introduction of AI (full-fledged AI (true artificial intelligence), and not SOCM, (educational program: the concept of intelligence in IT is not identical to the concept of intelligence in biology, anthropology, etc. sciences)) does not violate backward compatibility, and can be installed on 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 generations, because the "UAV-MFI scheme" cannot be a criterion for the sixth generation ....

[Mikhail m]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

the sixth generation should have something that will provide new tactical and / or strategic opportunities.

What do you think about the overload that a person cannot withstand? A huge plus in maneuverability. Anti-missile capabilities are growing significantly. The lack of life support systems is also far from a minus. Ability to sacrifice equipment for guaranteed completion of a combat mission. There is a lot more you can think of for unmanned vehicles. Technological capabilities are growing by leaps and bounds, so I think the 6th generation is just around the corner.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Mikhail M

What do you think

on the control and criterion "" the UAV-MFI scheme "as a criterion of the 6th generation" has already answered above, On "avoiding missiles", "maneuverability" and other things, all this is either unnecessary, or useless, or meaningless. For example: the maneuverability of missiles will always be higher than the maneuverability of a UAV / PLA, it is banal due to the size and relative power of the propeller, and aircraft protection based on KAZ (active protection complex) will always be better than any maneuverability.

[VO3A]

There is no general concept of a 5th generation aircraft, and when the elements of 4th generation aircraft are installed on aircraft of the 5th generation, the differences are erased except for invisibility ... If you remove invisibility with the help of air defense and promising aircraft radars, then aircraft of the 5th generations are even inferior to 4 ++ aircraft! It was not airplanes that became new, but the capabilities of modern warfare with the help of aircraft and information technologies ... This is still not understood by many, and no 6th generation is expected yet. If they are trying to create an aircraft to intercept hypersonic missiles, what does the 6th generation have to do with it? And "Okhotnik" has already been stuck here by these money sawers, these traders and bankers ...

[Sergey_G_M]

The fact of the matter is that the appearance and characteristics of the 6th generation aircraft are still rather vague.
Why should he be unmanned? Maybe, on the contrary, it is manned and the main function will be to control several UAVs from it? Maybe something else will come up.
Aircraft of the 5th generation have just begun to appear, and even their tactics of application are not completely clear, and their modernization potential has not been exhausted either.
So I think it's worth talking about the appearance and characteristics of the 6th generation aircraft only after the appearance of 5 ++ aircraft

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

Maybe, on the contrary, it is manned and the main function will be to control several UAVs from it?

It will be already in the next block F35, also in F15EX

[VO3A]

Why should he be unmanned? Maybe, on the contrary, it is manned and the main function will be to control several UAVs from it?

There is a strict concept of the 6th generation aircraft, which is based on the advanced concept of network-centric warfare. But we have not yet mastered the use of not only the Su-57, we do not have a concept of modern non-nuclear warfare using information technologies at all ... You cannot even imagine how close your assumption is to such a theory ... With our General Staff and its leader it won't threaten us for a long time ... You will be told that we can jump a step and immediately make an aircraft of the 6th generation! How can you jump over something that our leaders don't even know about? We have failed the program of creating systems for waging modern war ... For 20 years nothing has been created from the word at all! The state program has failed! The result is a complete "0"!
But we have HANDS and ROCKs and UAV shelves !!!

[Grazdanin]

Quote: VO3A

There is a strict concept of the 6th generation aircraft, which is based on the advanced concept of network-centric warfare.

typo? The concept of network-centric wars in the 5th generation has already been laid down and is being created for these wars. Computing power has become more important than flight performance.

[VO3A]

We have such a concept in many combat models and elements, but the concept itself has not been implemented, systems for it have not been created. Moreover, there is no assignment for their creation and they are supposedly neutralized by electronic warfare systems and therefore are not needed ... And our army is offered to fight in the old way and stack soldiers in piles, but in Ratniki and under the control of the ACCU ... This is the military strategy of our General Staff. ... And everyone knows this and has been talking about it for 15 years ... And the state program for creating such systems was adopted in 2000, Putin's presidential program was completely failed and its deadline ends in 2020 ... But there is nothing, including understanding and assignments ... 41 years old, so we slurp everywhere ... nuclear weapons save and cover these idiots ... and their stupidity ...

[Grazdanin]

Quote: VO3A

but in Ratniki and under the control of ACCS

There is no warrior in the army and will not be. Too expensive.

Quote: VO3A

the state program for the creation of such systems was adopted in 2000, Putin's presidential program was completely failed and its deadline ends in 2020

What was Putin's project completed? What promise has been kept?

Quote: VO3A

nothing, including understandings and assignments

Yes, there is a monkey copying. The same "Thunder" and the Hunter.

[Ruswolf]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

The fact of the matter is that the appearance and characteristics of the 6th generation aircraft are still rather vague.

On this I completely agree.
The appearance of an aircraft depends on its characteristics. The characteristics depend on the tasks set by the customers.
Until the customer knows and does not present the TK, it is impossible to determine whether it will be "5 +++" or "6".
Everything else is only at the level of fantasy and slogans.

[bang]

When the Ministry of Defense forms a TT package, then we can talk about how it will look ...

"Former commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force (Head of the Directorate of Military Aviation Programs of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Vladimir Mikhailov) also said that the appearance of the promising aircraft has already been determined. According to him, the speed of the aircraft will reach several Machs, it will be one-seater, super-maneuverable, multifunctional and built of composite materials using stealth technology.
Mikhailov noted that the plane will be single-seat, but it will be able to fly without a pilot. The development is planned to be armed with long-range hypersonic missiles. "

If this claim is not based on populism, then the fate of the Su-57 will be similar to that of the Su-47.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: bang-bong

several Machs, super-maneuverable, built of composite materials using stealth technology.

[Orange bigg]

The MiG-41 has been designed for a long time, which means that the technical design assignment has already been issued, and the Chinese comrades will confirm.

The MiG-41, also known as the Advanced Long-Range Intercept Aircraft Complex (PAK DP), is a long-range high-speed fighter-interceptor project being developed by the MiG Aircraft Corporation. The design speed of the MiG-41 is more than Mach 4, which is higher than the flight speed of the rocket. The aircraft is not only equipped with the latest technical equipment suitable for use in the Arctic, its combat range is also very large. In addition, it can carry a large number of weapons and ammunition, including a multifunctional long-range intercept missile system (MFRK DP) and anti-missile laser weapons. At the same time, it can be turned into an unmanned aircraft. The aircraft is to enter service as a replacement for the MiG-31 in 2028.

Aircraft-building company "MiG" started to implement the project of the MiG-41 interceptor in 2013. Research work on the appearance of the aircraft was completed at the end of 2019, the first flight of the test model is scheduled for 2025, and it should enter service in 2028. The MiG-41 is the successor to the MiG-31.

The MiG-41 is a long-range, high-speed, stealth fighter-interceptor. The maximum flight speed will exceed Mach 4, so it will be able to carry out space missions. In the future, the aircraft will be included in the global defense system of Russia, and later an unmanned fighter model will be presented.

https://inosmi.ru/military/20200904/248055178.html

[Alien From]

It seems that these dreamers are mired in virtual reality ...

[RUnnm]

It is the dreamers who drive progress ...

[Alien From]

Of course), but where are only modern Korolev or Sikorsky .....?

[RUnnm]

So far, only Rogozin and Serdyukov are offered to us)))

[Alien From]

This is the problem, only they are interested in money .......

[RUnnm]

That is why, during the dawn of Soviet cosmonautics, it was supervised by Lavrenty Pavlovich.

[Do not care]

Other characteristics usually include hypersonic speed, stealth technology of the highest level, efficiency in all existing flight modes, extremely high maneuverability, smart coverage, and even the presence of directed energy weapons.

We also need to add the following:
- Ability to dive under water to a depth of 1 km,
- movement under water at supersonic speed.
- Composite armor withstands the hit of HEAT and APCR shells
- Entering a near-earth orbit and also on a flight path to the Moon
- Combat load up to 100 tons


Well now the picture will be complete

[Andrey83]

With your additions, they won't have time to enter service by 2028 ...

[Grazdanin]

The 6th generation fighter will be made, but I doubt that it will go into production. The hypersonic mode is possible "on a straight line", it is impossible to maneuver and fire in this mode. The unit price will be cosmic. It will be more efficient to build a large number of relatively cheap UAVs that can be exchanged without a twinge of conscience. Computing systems capable of controlling swarms of drones will play the first role.

[VO3A]

I want to remind all dreamers that a combat aircraft is a universal means of delivering weapons to a given point at a given time ... It differs from other combat weapons only in its capabilities and cost ...

[Grazdanin]

This comment is for what?

[Doccor18]

Here's how to combine "hypersonic speed" and "extremely high maneuverability"?

He will be able to perform the functions of not only a fighter, but also an attack aircraft and a bomber ...

The difference in weight and size characteristics and flight range, how to fit it all into one side ...
And most importantly, what will be the cost of this board and what is the serial production?
In my opinion, the difference between 5 and 6 will be only in the absence of a pilot on the 6th. And the improvement of the characteristics of avionics, electronic warfare, engines and materials will evolve rather in an evolutionary way, but in a revolutionary way.

[Runoway]

Here's how to combine "hypersonic speed" and "extremely high maneuverability"?

Plus hypersound and remote control
Chet said something, said something, a terrible thing, straight extraterrestrial performance characteristics, and against the background of all-terrestrial long-launched su-57, armature and hunter, it sounds like something unreal.
Artificial intelligence in the country where on the TU-95 they still shit in pots

[viktor.]

It is alarming that Tolik is talking about this.

[Voltsky]

TTZ for the 6th generation has already been done ?! Or, as always, the author climbs ahead of the convoy ?!

[Wwk7260]

dreamers, so far, have not been able to cruise the afterburner supersonic on the twin-engine Su57, while the single-engine F35 had it initially. what kind of hypersound are we talking about? Yes, there is supersonic, the Su 57 does not have a normal flashlight, cannot brake without a parachute, has a riveted structure and does not even have weapons for its compartments. after India's withdrawal from the project, complete failure became apparent. you can close the shop and start developing a new 5th generation fighter.

[Orange bigg]

Most of all you look like a dreamer when you say that the quote

until now cruising non-afterburning supersonic on the twin-engine Su57 while the single-engine F35 had it initially

The reality looks a little different.

The Defense News publication, close to the Pentagon, has once again published highly critical assessments of the specialists of the newest fighter-bomber F-35 Lightning II. Facts show that the F-35 is a subsonic fighter capable of accelerating at full afterburner for no more than 1 minute. At speeds above Mach 1, after 60 seconds there is a threat of destruction of the hull from overheating, and after Mach 1,6, the tail of the aircraft may simply fall off. Note that the supersonic cruising speed is available to many modern fighters, and for the 5th generation it should be at least Mach 1,4.

Upon reaching the speed of Mach 1, the F-35 fighter also loses its "invisibility" properties for radars, that is, stealth and surprise. With any weapon on the external sling, the Lightning's stealth disappears even at subsonic speeds. These problems are technologically unavoidable.

https://m.ru.armeniasputnik.am/analytics/20200430/22904597/Paradoks-za-100-mln-pochemu-u-F-35-na-sverkhzvuke-otvalivaetsya-khvost.html

[Avior]

This is what you are, Armenian radio ... the tail, which means it will fall off, and twists its paws ...

[ultra]

Feel better?

[NEXUS]

The main characteristics of the sixth generation fighter

The author, I am interested in one question - you write articles, Schaub does not freeze?
The performance characteristics of the 6th generation fighter are uncertain! Even the designers have a vague idea of ​​what will happen there in 50 years. However, at VO it is already clear and most importantly soberly understand what the characteristics will be there.

[Orange bigg]

The performance characteristics of the 6th generation fighter are uncertain!

The MiG-41 must meet these characteristics: the speed of Mach 4, the ability to fly in UAV mode, stealth, the ability to fly in near space. The MiG-41 is being developed, which means that the boundaries of its performance characteristics are generally defined.

[NEXUS]

Quote: OrangeBigg

the ability to fly in near space. The MiG-41 is being developed, which means that the boundaries of its performance characteristics are generally defined.

Nothing there is defined from the word at all. MIG-41, at best, only on paper. And where did you get the idea that there is something defined in general? Why not a three-medium fighter-water-atmosphere-space or a two-medium fighter-water-atmosphere? What will this fighter look like? If you look at the evolution of our fighters, it is not difficult to see that the wings and tail, so to speak, strive to unite into one whole. So, using the author's example, I can say that the 6th generation fighter will be two-medium, hyperspeed and in the form flying saucer.
This is all a chat about nothing. We cannot put the SU-57 into production ... and it will serve for at least 50 years. So talk about the 6th generation now is a fairy tale about a white bull.

[The leader of the Redskins]

So this is the main difference:
The fifth generation is bad - it flies poorly,
Sixth - blah, blah, blah pure water!

[krillon]

That's for sure! Would have written about the death star, here too, the performance characteristics would be posted and discussed. From the couch I see first of all an unmanned vehicle, the pilots already control them at the limit of their physical capabilities, plus artificial intelligence. And if the first exists in metal and fights, then the second is not so optimistic. Humanity cannot understand its brains, although it is trying. In general, the prospect for the distant future.

[APASUS]

If a fifth-generation fighter has super-maneuverability and the use of stealth technologies among the most important characteristics, then a sixth-generation fighter, developing these qualities,

If ours is really allowed into the ROFAR series, then the 6th generation aircraft will change beyond recognition, the point is in these stealth technologies

[NEXUS]

Quote: APASUS

If ours is really allowed into the ROFAR series, then the 6th generation aircraft will change beyond recognition, the point is in these stealth technologies

ROFAR, as I have said more than once, is the gravestone of stealth technology a priori. But in addition to ROFAR, there is also a hyperspeed weapon that will not only change the pattern of any battle, but will radically rewrite the strategy and tactics of war as a whole.

[Mavrikiy]

It is unmanned control that is now considered one of the most important characteristics of the sixth generation fighter, which would make it possible to control not only with the help of a pilot in the cockpit, but also remotely

Nonsense, common from the USA and Europe. Why should we, you know what, vomit? In the USA, pilots change diapers as soon as they see our plane, suddenly it won't shoot, no, but will turn on the crap and amerovsky plane bang! And if there is a war, then only remotely.

As the experience of experiments in which the most successful in the United States shows, a manned aircraft cannot cope with an aircraft controlled using artificial intelligence. It is clear that so far this is only a simulation of a battle on an aircraft simulator,

And we completely trust them? And how to model it yourself, poorly?

He will be able to perform the functions of not only a fighter, but also an attack aircraft, and bomber, which will allow him to quickly solve a wide variety of tasks

Yeah, 20 suspension points, so that 20 tons of bombs were invisible.
Su-57 - to the masses, and not to cut the loot once again, at the call of the United States. They have a machine .....

[d4rkmesa]

Hypersound is unlikely, but variable-cycle engines operating in different flight modes in different ways are most likely.

[Piramidon]

a manned aircraft cannot cope with an aircraft controlled by artificial intelligence

Author, why are you piling up?

[dzvero]

Rough, yes, but the general message is clear. In ten years from now, the pilot will have vanishingly little chance against the AI. Even at the expense of response time and overload constraints. By the middle of the century, AI will dominate unchallenged (like chess today).

[Grazdanin]

I think faster, the first training battle in reality of a manned fighter and an unmanned one is planned for July 2021. The number of UAV projects in the United States is off the charts. By the end of this decade, quasi-AI drones will be the main US strike force. We need our answer, as long as that is, tears.

[askort154]

Recently the industrial director of the aviation complex of the state corporation "Rostec" Anatoly Serdyukov said that such an aircraft could be created jointly by MiG and Sukhoi.


Who would doubt, the deserved rogue not only does not "sit", after the case brought against him - in "negligence", which brought a loss of 56 mln. rub. but
again at her feeder. "Stool-Tax-Minister of Defense - Industrial-Director-Aviation-State Corporation". This is a short list of his positions. His Mistrals are already in the realm of tradition. Now he is taking on the "sixth generation of fighters".
And what - he is a former "tax officer", he knows how to pump the loot from the treasury.
Only one thing is already obvious, as long as such specialists as "ragozins" and "serdyukovs" are at the helm of the production of national defense means of the country, there will be no breakthroughs.

[RUnnm]

Judging by how often he began to appear in the media, rumors that he would move Chemezov to the post of the head of Rostec are not at all unfounded.

[Maks1995]

Wah, upset ...
The 5th generation is not in the troops, the 6th is not even in the technical requirements, but Serdyukov !!!! and Mikhailov !!!!
already something there ... they say (even promises cannot be called)
And the author is looking for "main differences" in non-existent aircraft.

And I don't care what:
"Other characteristics usually include hypersonic speed, the highest level of stealth technology, efficiency in all existing flight modes, extremely high maneuverability, smart coating and even the presence of directed energy weapons."
are essentially mutually exclusive properties.

Well, then the rest is thrown ... peremoga (no words);
"to unmanned control with the use of artificial intelligence .... shortened takeoff .... multifunctionality .... a fighter .... an attack aircraft ... a bomber ...."

So, the promised 2025 is coming soon, but the troops do not have SU57 yet ...
with such a PR approach, no 6th generation is expected in the coming decades ...

[Grossvater]

All of these remote control systems are confused by noise immunity. In addition, on ordinary eroplanes they try to plant the second carrier. One fails.

[Pavel57]

At one time, Sergei Kh okhlov, head of the State Research Institute of Aviation Systems, said that it was unmanned control that would become the fundamental criterion for a sixth generation fighter, while all other characteristics would only be the development of existing technologies.

If a great scientist says this, then it will be so. True, it would be necessary to first work it out on a real plane - at least the 3rd or 4th generation - it will be cheaper.

X okhlov, not Ukrainians, as the site rules.))))

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Pavel57

that it is unmanned control that will become the fundamental criterion of the sixth generation fighter

Quote: Pavel57

on a real plane - at least 3rd or 4th generation

So the unmanned modifications of the F16 and F / A18 have long been.

[kenig1]

A long time ago, when the pilot ejected, the plane became unmanned.

[kenig1]

Then a minus to you, to your health

[Pavel57]

Quote: Grazdanin

So the unmanned modifications of the F16 and F / A18 have long been.

Can they fight for air superiority, or are they used only as target aircraft?

[Grazdanin]

In July 2021, let's look at the “dog dump” between a manned and unmanned fighter jet in reality. While unmanned F16 / 18 can be used as a platform for launching missiles.

[And why do you need]

Who will build these aircraft? You? Do you agree to work for 30-40 tr at KnAAPO? And to live in a city where in June potatoes cost from 100 rubles in a store? Minus, your right.

[Vladimir333]

Well, if Serdyukov said .... then they will definitely do it. Serdyukov, on the other hand, is a noble "creator", especially in terms of someone to sell something, earn "loot" and move to another place of bread, and not to the dock.

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: mark2

When the Ministry of Defense forms a package of TT, then we can talk about how the future car will look in the future.

As Marx wrote in his time, not only the demand forms the supply, rather, on the contrary, the supply affects the demand. Those. in order for the Ministry of Defense to issue TT for new weapons, it is necessary to analyze what developments and their prospects already exist. Otherwise, you can issue a TT on an imperial destroyer-class cruiser, but you can hardly wait for it.

everyone knows the Star Wars series, that if they start sculpting this shnyaga at the striped ones, I don't believe in it. I hate politics, so that those in the Russian Federation would not believe in it.

[Viktor Sergeev]

So far, no one even imagines what a 6th generation fighter will be, there is simply nothing to write about. Damn, nobody knows what a 5th generation fighter is, everyone has their own requirements. At first, they presented one thing: "invisibility" due to the shape and coating, AFAR, supersonic speed without afterburner, super-maneuverability. Then suddenly the F35 became the 5th generation without speed and maneuverability, then they began to dig in to the visibility of the Su57, etc.

[outsider]

then they began to dig in to the visibility of Su57

- How can one not "dig deeper" before it, if this is the first and most important, defining property of a 5th generation fighter ?! There is no it - there is nothing. There is a flying target in a modern theater of operations.

[Viktor Sergeev]

You are completely wrong. Firstly, no one determines what the parameters of the EPR should be. Secondly, no one knows the real data of EPR 22,35, 57 and XNUMX. Thirdly, "invisibility" is achieved not only by reducing the EPR, but also by EW. Fourth, there is no defining parameter, there is an aggregate.
Who told you that the absence of Stealth makes the plane a target? Have you heard about electronic warfare, tactics and ultra-low altitudes?
At one time there was an experience: the attack of the Mig 21 on the strategist. Report: I see the target, I cannot attack with missiles. Electronic warfare.

[outsider]

You are completely wrong.

- Of course right.

Firstly, no one determines what the parameters of the EPR should be.

- Simple criterion: EPR should be such that you can kill the enemy before he sees you! What's so incomprehensible?

Secondly, no one knows the real EPR data of 22,35, 57 and XNUMX.

- Everyone knows who wants to know. Who does not want - he does not know and will never know!
http://faculty.nps.edu/jenn/EC4630/RCSredux.pdf

Su-57:
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/01/india-russia-close-to-agreement-on-next.html
Sukhoi's FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to an MoD official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square meters as compared to the Su-30MKI's RCS of about 20 square meters. "

Thirdly, "invisibility" is achieved not only by decreasing the RCS, but also by EW.

- NO... This is stupid nonsense.

Fourth, there is no defining parameter, there is an aggregate.

- There is a defining parameter - stealth (see above).

Who told you that the absence of Stealth makes the plane a target?

- I know that for a long time.

Have you heard about electronic warfare, tactics and ultra-low altitudes?

- Heard, heard! And how!

At one time there was an experience: the attack of the Mig 21 on the strategist. Report: I see the target, I cannot attack with missiles. Electronic warfare.

- Firstly: there was no MiG-21, of course, there was MiG-31, and the missile carrier was a Tu-95MS, and its electronic warfare station was SPS-171, not the first freshness at all. And this fact speaks only of one thing: about the TERRIBLE, NOT DEFINITELY UNSUITABLE, EXTREMELY LOW IMMUNITY of the "Zaslon" radar station. Despite the fact that on ALL American strategic missile carriers there are electronic warfare stations, which are more powerful than this frail station that was on the Tu-95MS by orders of magnitude! And the MiG-31 (in theory) should be hunting for these strategic missile carriers. As it turned out, he is not suitable for this.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

At one time there was an experience: the attack of the Mig 21 on the strategist. Report: I see the target, I cannot attack with missiles. Electronic warfare.

Well, since then, missiles have changed a lot and the introduction of a passive mode in the operation of the radar seeker missiles is an example of this.
And if the jammer overlaps the target, and the algorithm calculates that the jammer and the target are the same, then pointing continues to the jammer.
And further.
Therefore, there are still cannons on airplanes.

[Soho]

and the algorithm calculates that the source of interference and the target are the same

Mediocrity, the algorithm cannot "calculate". Calculates btsvm, the algorithm in this case is a target selection tool. It is better to keep writing about your determination to destroy those who disagree with your opinion. And don't bother to discuss what the snout did not come out with

[outsider]

- The chatter about "obligatory hypersound on a 6th generation aircraft" is just stupid nonsense of the profane, even in general's uniforms, said "for the sake of a word."
In reality, in order to estimate what a 6th generation aircraft will look like, you need to take the F-22 and see: what is it missing? How should and can you upgrade it?
Required:
1. Install transmitting-receiving modules not on gallium arsenide, but on gallium nitride in the radar, increasing the radar power by 40-60 %% and more.
2. To improve on the radar LPI modes - low probability of interception.
3. To improve the RTR station.
4. To put an electro-optical system providing full-sphere situational awareness, such as DOS with the F-35.
5. Put EOTS, like standing on the F-35.
6. To make a helmet-mounted target designation system similar to the one on the F-35 with the possibility of full-sphere view and full-sphere launch of all types of air-to-air missiles.
7. To install engines with a variable bypass ratio (already developed) - to increase the combat radius.
8. All this will require a mandatory increase in the computing power of the on-board computer.
9. To improve the stealth of the aircraft in the forward hemisphere.
It is desirable:
10. Install an electronic warfare station capable of emitting in a sector not covered by an airborne radar (which can be upgraded with electronic warfare programs).
11. Set up a laser station (with a sufficiently powerful laser) to combat enemy missiles with thermal and thermal imaging seeker.

[wow]

In general, the essence boils down to the fact that you are lying on the couch in front of the computer and neither x .. do not strain ... IT goes somehow by itself. Oops !!?

[gvozdan]

Against a 6th generation aircraft, it is enough to have 7th generation missiles and 4th generation fighters.

[nikolai55soot]

1) The 5th generation of fighters (or drones) will fly on hybrid ultra-powerful high-voltage electric motors up to 20000 kW (kVA) and more, which minimally burns fuel more air and flies at an altitude of 100 meters and higher, contact and contactless by laser beam; over the high-voltage power transmission line (0,4-10-110-220-330-500-750-1150 kV.): with a jump into Space at an altitude of 100 km. - 200 km. with a speed of up to 30 thousand km / h and more accelerator (or 2-3 space speed), launching rockets, with the launch of spacecraft (such as "Buran"). 2) Air - an aircraft carrier docked in the air after takeoff (as the ISS is a space station) from a flight (or regiment) of TTS - Il; Tu; An, and at the very end with a nuclear power plant; NES; The TNPP, if necessary, with the use of combat lasers, which flies on electric traction over a high-voltage power line for days over Russia (like the elusive BZHRK-BARGUZIN), upon the announcement of ALARM (war) changes its location. 3) On the left of the power line line (on the side) flies from 300 km / h or more, a helicopter, an ekranolet, SVP, on the right of the power line line (on the side) flies from 300 to 600 km / h a cargo robot-plant-train from paired 20-40 airships with a carrying capacity of up to hundreds of thousands of tons of cargo, which itself builds a mega route through the swamps of Siberia and the North, or builds the "Silk Road" Indonesia-Hanoi-Beijing-Moscow-Paris or builds an "Intercontinental route" South America-North America-Alaska-Moscow-Cairo-South Africa-Cape Town and many others ....

[Ilya Aksyonov]

Airplanes of the future will have the ability to take off and land vertically using a screen effect. And they will fly in a cloud of plasma, so that streamlined aerodynamic forms will be unnecessary to them. Such aircraft will have a wide range of movement, from near space, to flights at the level of house roofs.
Hanging on the spot and turning will be their hallmark in the storming of any objects, together with acceleration to hypersonic speeds in the plasma cloud from the spot.
Interestingly, in horizontal flight they will be able to change altitude almost vertically, without a gentle descent and ascent.
This will allow a new wing design, which will have a completely different flight control concept. So, in particular, on it front and back there will be nozzles of the detonation engine, plasma generator, which will allow you to rise and fall vertically, without shifting horizontally.

In the wing there are detonation engines that are located horizontally, and not, like in the nozzle of a standard engine in a circle, these detonation engines will create traction for the lifting force of the wing of the aircraft. The ekranoplanes have the same system, only there are separate engines in front of the ekranoplan.
This is how the circuit diagram of the wing of such an airplane looks like, see the diagram -