Military Review

Supply of S-400 air defense systems to Turkey: possible consequences

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Supply of S-400 air defense systems to Turkey: possible consequences

Turkey Air Defense System. Despite some disagreements with the United States, until recently, the Republic of Turkey was one of the largest recipients of US military assistance. However, in the last decade, Ankara has been trying to diversify the import of defense products, developing military-technical cooperation with other countries. Turkey also seeks to develop its national defense industry and is actively acquiring high technology. When visiting the TÜBİTAK SAGE Research Institute of Defense Industry (Ankara), President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that in the future Turkey will cease to acquire any missile defense and air defense systems abroad. All that the Turks are fighting should be done in Turkey, since, according to Erdogan, a stranger weapons you won’t fight much. Over the past 15 years, Ankara spent more than $ 30 billion on these goals, which allowed it to reduce the purchase of defense products abroad from 80% to 20%.


Anti-aircraft missile systems developed in Turkey


The military-industrial complex of Turkey has reached the level where it is possible to create anti-aircraft missile systems that meet modern requirements. In 2008, Roketsan, in the framework of the T-LALADMIS project (Turkish Low Altitude Air Defense Missile System - “Turkish low-altitude anti-aircraft missile system”), began work on the creation of short-range air defense systems. To replace the Hawk XXI medium-range air defense systems and Rapier-2000 short-range air defense systems in 2011, the Department of Defense Industry of the Turkish Ministry of Defense officially issued Aselsan a technical task for the development of a new generation of air defense systems. Subsequently, Roketsan and Aselsan began to create a family of air defense systems, commonly known as Hisar. Since the Turkish Air Force in the future needed short-range, medium and long-range air defense systems, it was decided to create them with the maximum unification of components and components, which in the future should accelerate the development and reduce the cost of serial products.

Short and medium range systems were first presented at the 12th international exhibition International Defense Industry Fair 2015 (IDEF-2015), which was held from 5 to 8 May 2015 in Istanbul. SAM Hisar-A and Hisar-O (in some sources Hisar-B) have a similar guidance system and mainly differ in the basic chassis and dimensions of anti-aircraft missiles. In both complexes, vertical-launching missiles are used, with radio command guidance on the marching section of the trajectory and infrared homing on the final one. The missiles have a single infrared seeker and fragmentation warhead.


SAM Hisar-A

SAM Hisar-A is capable of hitting targets at a distance of 15 km and a flight altitude of 5 km. The launcher with four lifting transport and launch containers is placed on the FNSS ACV-30 armored tracked chassis, which also houses a rising mast with target detection radar and an electron-optical system. This makes it possible for a mobile air defense system to operate autonomously, but combat capabilities are limited by the relatively short detection range of the radar of the Hisar-A combat vehicle.


Hisar-A combat vehicle in combat position

The Hisar-A air defense battery contains four combat vehicles, a transport-loading vehicle and a mobile command post, which receives information from long-range surveillance radars. In addition to the option on a caterpillar chassis, developed for the air defense units of the ground forces, the creation of object systems is underway, which should replace the British-made air defense systems Rapier-2000 in the defense system of airbases.


It can be either towed or self-propelled launchers on the chassis of two-axle off-road trucks. To detect airborne targets, it is proposed to use the AN / MPQ-64F1 Improved Sentinel three-axis low-altitude radar or Turkish KALKAN radar, coupled with the SINCGARS secure data transmission system.

Despite a slight shift to the right of the timing of adoption, it is possible to assert with a high degree of certainty that the mobile version of the air defense system will be brought to mass production. Successful testing of Hisar-A took place in October 2013, and now three prototypes are in trial operation. According to the contract, the first stage envisages the delivery of 18 mobile anti-aircraft systems to the troops. In total, over the next five years it is planned to build at least 30 Hisar-A air defense systems.

Hisar-O medium-range air defense systems (formerly known as T-MALAMIDS) use SAMs with a maximum firing range of 25 km and a range of 10 km. The launcher with six vertical-launching TPKs is placed on the Mercedez-Benz 2733 car chassis with a 6x6 wheel arrangement.


Self-propelled missile launcher Hisar-O

The anti-aircraft battery includes three self-propelled launchers with six rockets ready for use on each and transport-loading vehicles. The management of Hisar-O air defense systems is carried out from a mobile command post.


Primary information about the air situation comes from ground-based radars and AWACS aircraft using digital data transmission equipment MІDS as part of Link 16. Own means of detecting air targets are passive optoelectronic station on the chassis of an all-terrain vehicle and towed by KALKAN-II radar.


The three-coordinate radar with the KALKAN-II HEADLIGHT was developed by Aselsan. This station, operating in the frequency range of 8-10 GHz, has a detection range of up to 120 km and is capable of simultaneously tracking 50 targets.


Radar KALKAN

The first throw tests of Hisar-O anti-aircraft missiles took place in 2014, and in 2016 the first guided flight. The delivery of serial Hisar-O air defense systems to the troops is planned for 2021.


Although in Turkey Hisar-A is called a short-range complex, and Hisar-O is called medium-range, in fact it is a short-range air defense system. The overall dimensions and mobility of Hisar-O are comparable to the South Korean KM-SAM air defense systems or the promising Russian S-350. However, these systems are superior to Turkish Hisar-O in terms of firing range more than twice. SAM Hisar-A and Hisar-O are unsuitable for combating operational-tactical ballistic missiles and have significant limitations on the possibility of hitting supersonic air targets. In this regard, until recently, the development of more long-range options. The Hisar-ON air defense system with a range of 50 km was exploring the possibility of using an AIM-120 AMRAAM air-launched missile with active radar guidance. The Hisar-OD modification provided for the use of the RIM-162 ESSM missile. Hisar-U model should have a launch range of 120-150 km and a reach in height of at least 20 km

Regarding the possibility of developing medium and long-range air defense systems in Turkey, negotiations were held with the American corporations Raytheon and Lockheed Martin. However, judging by everything, the independent development of long-range complexes turned out to be too late for Turkish developers, and military-technical cooperation was stalled due to the aggravation of relations between the USA and Turkey.

Attempts to develop long-range air defense systems in Turkey, T-LORAMIDS tender and its results


Although the MIM-14 Nike-Hercules air defense system is still formally in service in Turkey, by the beginning of the 1990s it was clear that this complex was outdated and needed to be replaced. In the late 1990s, after Greece had the S-300PMU-1 Russian-made anti-aircraft missile system at its disposal, the Turkish leadership became concerned about the need to replace the Nike-Hercules air defense systems with a modern multi-channel and long-range mobile anti-aircraft missile system.

To study the possibility of independent creation of a long-range air defense system, a working group was created, which included qualified representatives of the Turkish military-industrial complex and military specialists. After six months of research, it was concluded that in the foreseeable future, Turkey is not able to independently create a long-range anti-aircraft missile system that meets basic modern requirements. In this regard, in 2009, a tender was announced for the supply of long-range anti-aircraft missile systems T-LORAMIDS (Turkish Long Range Air And Missile Defense System - “Turkish Long Range Air and Missile Defense System”).

The competition was attended by all manufacturers of long-range air defense systems. Applications were submitted by the Eurosam European consortium with SAMP / T air defense systems (with Aster 30 Block 1 missiles), the alliance of American companies Lockheed Martin and Raytheon (a combination of PAC-2 GMT and PAC-3), Rosoboronexport with the S-300VM Antey-2500 ”And China Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation (CPMIEC) with HQ-9.

Among the systems presented as part of the competition, the S-300VM had the best anti-ballistic missile potential. But the Russian air defense system, mounted on a caterpillar chassis, did not fully meet the Turkish requirements in terms of mobility and fire performance in repelling massive air strikes. Apparently, the Russian side proposed the S-300VM because the production capacities previously used in the construction of the export S-300PMU / PMU-1 / PMU-2 air defense systems were overloaded with orders for the S-400 for the Russian Air Force.

The American proposal was very generous. In September 2009, the United States Agency for Security and Defense Cooperation (DSCA) notified Congress of the possible sale of 12 Patriot anti-aircraft batteries to Turkey. It was planned to supply 76 MIM-104F missiles, 201 MIM-104E missiles, as well as an additional batch of missiles with advanced anti-missile capabilities. In addition, under the contract, together with 48 launchers, the Turkish Air Force could receive 13 AN / MPQ-65 radars, 13 anti-aircraft missile guidance stations, 13 anti-aircraft battery control points, 4 automated anti-aircraft battery group control systems, eight sets of multi-function information transfer system (MIDS ) AN / USQ-140 (V) and six broadband repeaters, as well as autonomous power sources, spare parts sets and simulators. The estimated cost of the entire economy in 2010 was $ 7,8 billion. However, at the request of Ankara, at the first stage of the transaction, she had the opportunity to purchase anti-aircraft systems in the amount of $ 3,5 billion.

The European SAMP / T SAMS from the Eurosam consortium from the very beginning was not among the favorites, due to overpriced. In addition, at the time of the tender announcement, the land version of SAMP / T was not yet in mass production and its prospects were not clear. Also aroused certain doubts about the missile defense capabilities of the Aster 30 missiles.

The winner of the competition in 2013 unexpectedly became the Chinese company CPMIEC, which offered the best price. At the time of summing up the tender, the cost of 12 divisions of the HQ-9 air defense system (export designation FD-2000) was $ 3,44 billion. However, in 2015 the results of the tender were virtually canceled and the competition was restarted. The Turkish side did not give official explanations in this regard. A number of sources say that in addition to pressure from the United States, the reason for the refusal of the transaction was the unwillingness of the PRC to provide a license for the production of HQ-9 SAMs. Apparently, Turkey hoped with the help of China to join the elite club of manufacturers of modern air defense and missile defense systems.

It is known that even before the tender was announced, the TÜBİTAK SAGE defense research institute, together with Roketsan and Aselsan, began to develop the Siper long-range air defense system. According to initial plans, this complex was supposed to go into service in 2022. After China, fearing that it would harm its own defense industry, refused to share key technologies, Turkish representatives negotiated with European companies Matra BAE Dynamics Alenia and Thales Group. However, apparently, the parties failed to agree. One of the main reasons was the insolvency of Turkey. Considering that over $ 10 million was spent on the development of Hisar-A / O short-range air defense systems over 800 years, and the Siper program could be allocated no more than $ 500 million, this was clearly not enough to create a truly effective long-range anti-aircraft complex . In addition, European companies are not interested in the appearance on the international arms market of a competitor that is able in the foreseeable future to offer potential buyers anti-aircraft missile systems at dumping prices.

Deployment of Patriot air defense systems of NATO countries in Turkey


In 2012, in response to Ankara’s request for NATO to assist in securing airspace from Syria, the United States, Germany and the Netherlands sent two Patriot air defense batteries to Turkey each.


Layout of the Patriot air defense system in Turkey

In February 2013, two SAM batteries delivered from the United States were put on combat duty in the Gaziantep region of southern Turkey. Anti-aircraft systems provided by the Netherlands took up duty on positions in the vicinity of the city of Adam, German - south of the city of Kahramanmaras.


In September 2014, the Dutch Patriot air defense systems were replaced by the Dutch systems at the Incirlik airbase in the southern Turkish province of Adana. In 2016, Germany withdrew its air defense systems from Turkish territory. The US military also announced its intention to remove the Patriots from Turkey.


Google Earth satellite image: Patriot air defense system position in the vicinity of Incirlik airbase

Apparently, in the short term, American long-range SAMs in Turkey will remain only in the area of ​​the strategically important Incirlik American air base. Where A-10C attack aircraft, F-16C / D and F-15C / D fighters, KS-135R tanker aircraft and B61 fusion bombs are located on a regular basis.

Negotiations with the United States regarding the supply of Patriot air defense systems to Turkey


After the tender was announced by T-LORAMIDS, Ankara and Washington regularly discussed the possibility of supplying the Patriot RAS-3 air defense systems, and until recently, the Turkish leadership did not lose hope of receiving these systems. In November 2019, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, at a meeting with Donald Trump in Washington, announced that he was ready to acquire the Patriot system if the United States offered favorable conditions. At a press conference following the visit, the following was said:

We can overcome the differences around the (Russian anti-aircraft missile systems) S-400 and (American fifth-generation fighters) F-35. I told the president (Donald Trump) of my desire to buy Patriot if a favorable offer came up ... "Turkey is determined to" open a new page "in relations with the United States, and only dialogue will allow the two countries to resolve disagreements in the defense industry.

After the visit to the United States, the American delegation arriving in Ankara held talks with senior representatives of the Ministry of National Defense and the Ministry of Defense Industry of Turkey. As a result of negotiations, the US State Department approved the decision to sell Turkey Patriot complexes for $ 3,5 billion, and the American leadership through diplomatic channels transferred the conditions for the supply of Patriot PAC-3 air defense systems with MIM-104E missiles.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu in a statement following the results of the year told reporters that Turkey sent the last letter to the United States with a proposal for the supply of Patriot about a year and a half ago, and the decision of the State Department was based on this proposal. However, according to the minister, the acquisition of American air defense systems cannot be linked to the S-400 deal with Russia. Turkey has several criteria for acquiring Patriot air defense systems, one of which is an affordable price and the possibility of providing a loan. However, the key issue for Turkey remains the transfer of technology.

From all this it follows that the Turkish president is actively negotiating with Washington, blackmailing the Americans with the possibility of rapprochement with Russia. Ankara, claiming to be the regional leader, is trying to achieve military superiority over potential rivals and guarantee the invulnerability of its troops and strategically important objects from air attack weapons and tactical ballistic missiles. At the same time, the Turkish leadership is trying to achieve maximum independence from arms imports, transfer production to its own enterprises and gain access to high technology, thus reducing the gap between other developed countries and saving financial resources. However, the Americans are not eager to supply modern complexes to a whimsical ally without paying with real money and to share critical defense secrets.

Supply of Russian S-400 air defense systems to Turkey and possible consequences of this step


In November 2016, it became known that Turkish and Russian representatives were discussing the possibility of supplying S-400 long-range air defense systems to Turkey. On December 27, 2017, Rostec’s head Sergei Chemezov announced that Turkey will acquire four S-400 air defense divisions from Russia in the amount of $ 2,5 billion from Russia. At the same time, Turkey will pay only 45% of the total contract value in hard currency, and the remainder will cover the loan allocated by Russia. In addition to providing a loan, one of the conditions put forward by the Turkish side was the provision of detailed technical documentation, and assistance to Turkish companies in the development of the production of S-400 elements of interest to them.

On July 12, 2019, the first elements of the S-124 air defense system were delivered by An-400 Ruslan aircraft to the Turkish airbase Myurt. Turkish representatives confirmed that in July 2019, seven Russian heavy military transport aircraft with S-400 elements landed at their airfields. The second stage of deliveries of Russian air defense systems started on August 27 and ended on September 14. According to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the delivery process should be fully completed by April 2020.
From November 24 to 26, 2019, at the air base in the vicinity of Ankara, testing of S-400 air defense systems was carried out. At the same time, light F-16C / D fighters and RF-4E reconnaissance aircraft, as well as UH-1H helicopters were used as conditional air targets.

S-400 anti-aircraft missile system radars were deployed on the territory of the airbase: 91N6E radar system used as part of the regiment command post, 92N6E2 anti-aircraft missile battalion multifunctional radar station and 96L6E2 all-height detector.


Apparently, during this event, in addition to checking the operability, Turkish calculations proved their skills in practice and tested the capabilities of the Russian radars included in the S-400 air defense system. During the tests, the compliance of real data with the previously declared tactical and technical characteristics was confirmed. It can be assumed that after entering airplanes and helicopters into the zone of destruction of air defense systems, an “electronic launch” was carried out on them on a simulator simulator.

Information about the flight of Turkish S-400s with real airplanes and helicopters caused an ambiguous reaction in Russian and Western media. American representatives expressed their traditional “concern”, and in our forums, “patriotic” commentators and authors of some online publications began to say that the Russian military managed to obtain unique radar portraits of the latest NATO fighters. At the same time, among the aircraft participating in the S-400 flyby near Ankara, miraculously suddenly appeared F-35A fighters, which are not included in the Turkish Air Force. It is not known whether or not Russian specialists were present when testing the radars attached to the S-400, and to what information they were allowed to do so. Even if the Russian side managed to fully familiarize themselves with all the materials, it is unlikely that we learned anything new. It is impossible to assume that the air defense calculations, carrying combat duty in the Kaliningrad region, in the European North and the Russian Far East, never had the opportunity to "fly the gun" widespread American-made F-16 fighters. Moreover, it is not clear what interest the ancient “Phantom” could have represented for us, the characteristics of which were well studied more than 40 years ago during the conflicts in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. As for the 5th generation fighters, their radar portrait has probably already been recorded by Russian specialists serving the radars in Syria.

In the comments on the previous articles of this series, there were statements that the sale of S-400 air defense systems to countries that may be potential opponents of Russia in the future does not harm the defense capability of our country. At the same time, the arguments were made: the S-400 has been in serial production for more than 10 years and is outdated, anti-aircraft systems delivered for export have significantly worse characteristics than those in service in the Russian Armed Forces, and therefore they do not pose a threat to our aviation. “Especially knowledgeable” commentators assured that all the information from the S-400 air defense systems exported via “special channels” is transmitted to Russia, and we can turn off the anti-aircraft system hardware using a “satellite signal”. Also, some readers showed confidence that Western experts were not able to independently understand the operating modes of radar and guidance equipment, and this would not help foreign experts in the development of countermeasures and the development of tactics to combat the S-400.

Let's try to figure it all out. To begin with, the S-400 is currently the main anti-aircraft system in the Russian Aerospace Forces, and so far we have nothing more sophisticated in service. The first set of S-350 air defense systems has recently been tested and is used to prepare calculations. The beginning of mass deliveries of S-350, which is planned to replace the obsolete and extremely worn S-300PS, should be expected no earlier than in 2-3 years. The S-500 long-range anti-aircraft missile system, with which great hopes are associated, is primarily intended to combat ballistic targets and to counter satellite in low orbits. Due to the very high cost of the S-500 air defense system, it will be used only to protect critical facilities and is unlikely to be compared with the S-400 in terms of the number of systems adopted for service. I would also like to recall that the potential for improving the S-400 air defense system is far from exhausted. Despite the many promises of our senior military, military-industrial complex leaders and “statesmen”, the S-400 air defense missile battalions of the Russian Federation air forces are still not fully equipped with new missiles with a launch range of 380 km. Given that the Russian air defense forces are still far from being saturated with enough modern equipment and weapons, the serial production of the S-400 will continue in the next decade, and they will long be the basis of the ground component of our air defense. The designated service life of these systems is at least 25 years, and talking about the "obsolescence" of the S-400 is at least strange.

Two regimental sets of S-400, designed for Turkey, are really different from the anti-aircraft systems that are in service with the Russian Air Force. But this does not mean that the export modification, in terms of its basic characteristics, is worse than systems bearing combat duty in Russia. It is related to customer preferences and some specific technical issues. So, for example, as part of the Turkish S-400 air defense system, 96L6E2 radar is used instead of 96L6 / 96L6-1, which are operated by the Russian Aerospace Forces. Some elements of the complex are not self-propelled, but towed, which is associated with customer requirements for cost reduction and for the use of their own tractors. In addition, a number of sources say that there are differences in computer systems and in topographic location equipment. In addition, anti-aircraft systems delivered to Turkey are deprived of the standard Russian combat control equipment and state identification.

NATO’s integrated air defense system uses the Mk state recognition system. XII, having "military" and "civilian" regimes. At the Turkish control centers of the S-400 air defense system, the “civilian” standard STANAG 4193 is used, which is compatible with the ICAO standard (civilian secondary radar of international air traffic control), but at the same time it is possible to build in “military” imitation-resistant components, which will require the installation of NATO equipment with unique crypto keys. It is known that work in this direction is currently being conducted by the Turkish electronic company Aselsan. After the integration of the interrogation and response equipment into the Turkish national system of state recognition during the formation of the interrogation or response code, a combination of certain pulses should occur and, except for the transmit-receive antennas of the ground-based radar interrogator, it does not go anywhere. That is, in the “friend or foe” recognition system, “keys” are not transmitted anywhere. Moreover, the Turks wished that the “friendly target” option was set in the “default” interrogation equipment, which could mark any mark on the radar screen.

As for the compatibility of S-400 air defense systems with the automated control facilities of the NATO air defense system in Europe MASE, this primarily depends on the will of the command of the North Atlantic Alliance and the ability of the Turks to finance this event. Technically, to solve this problem, the creation of appropriate information exchange protocols and the use of interface equipment, capable of interacting with the tactical communication system MIDS, combining various types of information platforms into a common tactical data network with Link 16 standard equipment, is required.

As for various kinds of hardware or software “bookmarks,” the standard procedure for receiving defense and special-purpose equipment made abroad is to examine it for various spurious emissions and signals during various operating modes. In our country, such technical and organizational measures are carried out as part of the program for countering foreign technical intelligence (PDITR) and technical information protection (TZI). There is no doubt that in the countries that purchased the Russian S-400, all elements of the system have been thoroughly studied and scanned. It is extremely doubtful that the Russian side is ready to bear reputation and financial costs in case of detection of "bugs". This can not only lead to international scandal and the return of anti-aircraft systems to the supplier, but also scare away other potential buyers.

The assurances that the supply of two S-400 regiment kits to a NATO country cannot harm our defense are not understood. As you know, Americans never missed the opportunity to get acquainted in detail with Soviet and Russian-made air defense systems. So, at several American landfills there are still operational radar stations that are part of the S-300PT / PS air defense system. A detailed study of the characteristics of radars and a guidance station allowed American experts to create fairly effective jamming stations and develop optimal tactics for air defense breakthrough, which are based on the S-300P family systems. It should also be remembered that the pilots of the US Air Force and Navy, European countries of NATO and Israel, during joint exercises regularly conduct training with the participation of the Greek S-300PMU-1, as well as the Bulgarian and Slovak S-300PMU. One can imagine what kind of howl the Americans would raise if the combat aircraft of the Russian Air Force with the permission of one of their countries, where the Patriot air defense systems are located, began to train to destroy them. At the end of December 2019, the American news agency Bloomberg disseminated information that Turkey was ready to provide S-400 air defense systems for exploring the United States, in exchange for defrosting the supply of F-35A fighters. It may happen that the damage to Russia's defense is much higher than the benefits of additional funds to the budget. History Already knows cases where, due to the short-sightedness of politicians, secret models of equipment and weapons were at the disposal of Western partners, and Russian planes were shot down by anti-aircraft missiles produced in our country.

Considering the economic consequences of the supply of four S-400 divisions to Turkey, it should be remembered that Russia received a little more than $ 1 billion for them with real money, which is much lower than the market value. Most of the contract was covered by Russian credit. The economy of the Republic of Turkey is currently experiencing significant difficulties, and therefore in the future the question may arise of writing off this debt. A striking example of such a military-technical "cooperation" is Venezuela, which owes Russia more than $ 3 billion for arms deliveries.

Speaking about the political effect of the Russian-Turkish arms deal, it should be recognized that its implementation caused a crisis in US-Turkish relations. Another question is how long this effect will be. It is no secret that the actions of the Turkish president are often unpredictable, and in the past he took frankly unfriendly steps towards our country. Recep Tayyip Erdogan imagines himself a new sultan, trying to return Turkey to its former status and the opportunity to speak on equal terms with leading world players. Direct confirmation of this is the position of the Turkish leadership on Libya. In addition to gaining access to modern technology, buying Russian S-400 air defense systems on credit is a means of pressure on Washington. Due to the unique geographical location of Turkey, the United States and European NATO countries are vitally interested in keeping Ankara within its circle of influence. Even if we assume that the West will put up with Erdogan’s outbursts, it should be remembered that it is not eternal. After the suppression of the military coup, Recep Tayyip Erdogan carried out a rigorous purge in the armed forces and state structures. His authoritarian methods of government cause an increase in discontent in the country, which is exacerbated by the lack of economic growth.

In the past, Moscow has traditionally been considered the geopolitical rival of Ankara. Considering that the Turkish leadership has always taken a pro-American position, and the Turkish generals studied at American military academies, it is naive to believe that the views of the Turkish establishment will radically change in the near future. One way or another, even in the presence of serious disputes with the United States, there is no talk of Turkey’s withdrawal from NATO and the elimination of US military bases. Turkey remains vitally interested in financial and political support, in access to modern weapons and advanced technologies. It is very likely that the next Turkish leader will fully restore relations with Washington, and Ankara, as before, will be among the most faithful allies of the United States.
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  1. sen
    sen 8 January 2020 05: 23
    +2
    It looks like Turkey is following the path of China. He buys the latest weapons for the sake of technology and the manufacture of his own models.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 8 January 2020 05: 39
      +4
      Turkey follows the path that Solntselky Erdogan indicates ... what will happen when this Sun goes beyond the horizon, only God knows ... how everything in the world is not stable and fragile ... I'm not talking about Turkey.
      1. zyablik.olga
        zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 06: 32
        +7
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        Turkey follows the path indicated by Solntselky Erdogan ... what will happen when this Sun goes beyond the horizon, only God knows ...

        Something a bit too much "soltselikh became", relying on authoritarian methods of leadership and admitted to the trough of sycophants. With a high degree of probability, after the death or removal of the "sun-faced" from power, those are the loudest shouting "urya" to them, they will pour mud on them.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 8 January 2020 06: 34
          +2
          those cro the loudest shouting "urya" to them, they will throw mud at them.

          Well, what do you want from people ... the holy Apostle Peter won’t renounced Christ three times and what can we say about mere mortals.
          1. zyablik.olga
            zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 06: 41
            +8
            Quote: The same Lech
            those cro the loudest shouting "urya" to them, they will throw mud at them.

            Well, what do you want from people ... the holy Apostle Peter won’t renounced Christ three times and what can we say about mere mortals.

            One old book says: "Do not make yourself an idol."
            For some reason, many forget that the higher the leader, the more expensive his mistakes are. Of course, no one is safe from them, but in a state that wants to develop steadily, there should be mechanisms restricting the arbitrariness and tyranny of power. There should not be lifelong immunity from judicial prosecution for their affairs. Otherwise, we have what we have.
            1. Same lech
              Same lech 8 January 2020 06: 44
              +5
              There should not be lifelong immunity from judicial prosecution for their affairs. Otherwise, we have what we have.

              Well, here you have come to the logical conclusion about the responsibility of those in power.
              Unfortunately, guilty of devastating consequences for the country of perestroika and reforms from among the presidents were not brought to justice in our country.
              We do not touch this category of power in principle.
              1. zyablik.olga
                zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 06: 46
                +6
                Quote: The same LYOKHA
                Unfortunately, in our country, those responsible for the devastating consequences for the country of perestroika and reforms from the presidents were not brought to justice.
                We do not touch this category of power in principle.

                If we want to have sustainable development, and generally save the country, then this practice needs to be changed.
            2. Alf
              Alf 8 January 2020 17: 53
              +5
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              There should not be lifelong immunity from judicial prosecution for their affairs. Otherwise, we have what we have.

              First of all, the Untitled, having come to power, guaranteed the untouchability of Yeltsin from the offspring and the household.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 8 January 2020 05: 59
    12
    Always considered the sale of Turkey S-400, and even on muddy terms, at least a mistake.
    1. Mixanson
      Mixanson 8 January 2020 11: 12
      -9
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Always considered the sale of Turkey S-400, and even on muddy terms, at least a mistake.

      Well then, looking from which side to look ..
      After these deliveries, Erdogan is already in direct conflict with the US-NATO ..
      But technology, this is an export option, and Russia already has the S-500 hi
      Does NATO need to fall apart like that?
      1. zyablik.olga
        zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 11: 16
        +8
        Quote: Mixanson
        But technology, this is an export option, and Russia already has the S-500

        What is the truth, and how many divisions are on duty? what
        And you probably only looked at the pictures, you did not master the text. About the S-500, as it seems to me, the author wrote quite intelligibly.
        1. Mixanson
          Mixanson 8 January 2020 11: 37
          -3
          Quote: zyablik.olga
          What is the truth, and how many divisions are on duty?

          Not at all, but developments are going on ..
          Quote: zyablik.olga
          And you probably only looked at the pictures, you did not master the text. About the S-500, as it seems to me, the author wrote quite intelligibly.

          Well, about the "Vanguards", "Poseidons", etc. also the "authors" wrote that these are cartoons .. However, "Vanguard" is already on duty and I think something else too .. hi
          Read less the Jewish world press .. They can talk and belittle, except for themselves "loved ones" ..
          1. zyablik.olga
            zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 11: 40
            +4
            Quote: Mixanson
            Not at all, but developments are going on ..

            That's when the S-500 enters the troops and this system will be adopted, then we must write:
            Quote: Mixanson
            and Russia already has the S-500

            Quote: Mixanson
            Well, about the "Vanguards", "Poseidons", etc. also "authors" wrote that these are cartoons

            stop What does this have to do with the issue under discussion? request
            Quote: Mixanson
            However, Avangard is already on duty and I think something else too ..

            To think (assume) and to know, this is not the same excuse. No.
            1. Mixanson
              Mixanson 8 January 2020 12: 01
              -6
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              To think (assume) and to know, this is not the same excuse.

              I agree .. Here are only "the most knowledgeable and thinking" we have here "forum users from Israel" hehe
              1. Bongo
                8 January 2020 12: 41
                +4
                Quote: Mixanson
                I agree .. Here are only "the most knowledgeable and thinking" we have here "forum users from Israel" hehe

                Meehan, since when did my wife and I become "members of the forum from Israel"? fool
                1. Mixanson
                  Mixanson 8 January 2020 13: 01
                  -4
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Quote: Mixanson
                  I agree .. Here are only "the most knowledgeable and thinking" we have here "forum users from Israel" hehe

                  Meehan, since when did my wife and I become "members of the forum from Israel"? fool

                  Is this your wife? Well, I'm sorry .. Wife needs to be respected! love
                  My Pole is still torn here to write something about me .... I always agree !!!! he he
                  1. Bongo
                    8 January 2020 13: 10
                    +4
                    Quote: Mixanson
                    Well, I'm sorry .. Wife needs to be respected!

                    Duc, before you carry something, you need to think. Or are you one of those for whom the Jews are to blame?
                    1. Mixanson
                      Mixanson 8 January 2020 13: 28
                      -6
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Duc, before you carry something, you need to think

                      Well, sometimes I blur something ..

                      Quote: Bongo
                      Or are you one of those for whom the Jews are to blame?

                      I'm certainly not a supporter of "If there is no water in the tap, they drank it .." laughing
                      But there are many questions to the "restless comrades" .... hehe he
                      1. Bongo
                        8 January 2020 13: 31
                        +4
                        Quote: Mixanson
                        But there are many questions to the "restless comrades" .... hehe he

                        People are not divided by party, national or religious affiliation. People are divided into smart and fools. But fools are already divided by party, national or religious affiliation. hi
                      2. Mixanson
                        Mixanson 8 January 2020 13: 54
                        -4
                        Quote: Bongo
                        People are divided into smart and fools. But fools are already divided by party, national or religious affiliation.

                        Got your hint, but better not say anything .. hi
  • Gene585
    Gene585 8 January 2020 06: 55
    -5
    Quote: Sergey Linnik
    A detailed study of the characteristics of the radar and the guidance station allowed American experts create sufficiently effective jamming stations and develop optimal tactics for air defense breakthrough, the basis of which are systems of the S-300P family.

    Author! These are just your assumptions and the assumptions of homegrown experts ... There are many systems that cut and destroy interference to an acceptable level, as well as many options for counteraction tactics ... One example is the use of 40H6 anti-aircraft missiles with ARGSN, the use of various types of complexes in conjunction with -400 and so on, without even mentioning about the suppression systems of the S-400 air defense systems themselves and others ...
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 10: 39
      +3
      Quote: Gene585
      There are many systems that cut and destroy interference to an acceptable level, as well as many options for counteraction tactics ...

      Do I understand you correctly, you want to say that our anti-aircraft systems are absolutely not vulnerable to organized interference, and a detailed study of a potential enemy armed with air defense systems does not affect the improvement of jamming stations in the US and NATO countries?
      Quote: Gene585
      One example is the use of 40N6 anti-aircraft missiles with ARGSN

      How many missiles of this type are in combat units? And they are absolutely not sensitive to interference?
      Quote: Gene585
      the use of complexes of various types in conjunction with the S-400 and so on, without even mentioning the suppression systems of the S-400 air defense systems themselves and others ...

      Blah, blah, blah ... a lot of words, specifics zero ...
  • Professor
    Professor 8 January 2020 09: 26
    -1
    In 2012, in response to Ankara’s request for NATO to assist in securing airspace from Syria, the United States, Germany and the Netherlands sent two Patriot air defense batteries to Turkey each.

    Sergey, you forgot the Spanish complexes.
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 10: 43
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      Sergey, you forgot the Spanish complexes.

      Hello, hello! Seryozha works today, I am for him. smile
      You read a little inattentively, which is uncharacteristic for you.
      Quote from publication:
      In September 2014 years spanish SAM Patriot replaced the Dutch complexes at Incirlik airbase in the southern Turkish province of Adana.
      1. Professor
        Professor 8 January 2020 10: 49
        -1
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        Quote: Professor
        Sergey, you forgot the Spanish complexes.

        Hello, hello! Seryozha works today, I am for him. smile
        You read a little inattentively, which is uncharacteristic for you.
        Quote from publication:
        In September 2014 years spanish SAM Patriot replaced the Dutch complexes at Incirlik airbase in the southern Turkish province of Adana.

        Old i became or storm outside the window work distracts me.
        1. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 8 January 2020 10: 52
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: zyablik.olga
          Quote: Professor
          Sergey, you forgot the Spanish complexes.

          Hello, hello! Seryozha works today, I am for him. smile
          You read a little inattentively, which is uncharacteristic for you.
          Quote from publication:
          In September 2014 years spanish SAM Patriot replaced the Dutch complexes at Incirlik airbase in the southern Turkish province of Adana.

          Old i became or storm outside the window work distracts me.

          Storm mat hides the sky in darkness? lol
  • honest people
    honest people 8 January 2020 11: 37
    0
    Very competent presentation to the author respect!
  • Eugene (Eugene)
    Eugene (Eugene) 8 January 2020 14: 05
    +4
    The article deserves attention, the most important thing is that you, Sergei, correctly presented your arguments and arguments in your article. I have great concerns about the "positive trajectory" of relations between the Ottomans and representatives from the Russian Federation.

    Next:

    1) Turks love their country very much. Turkish cinema produces a lot of films (stories about the greatness of the Ottoman Empire). Many Turks in their hearts want the return of the territories of a state that is a thing of the past. There is dissatisfaction with US policy in the labor community of Turkish citizens; but, despite the "friendship with the government of the Russian Federation," the Turkish leadership "turns a blind eye" to radical Islamists from the Tatar Mejlis (a radical fascist organization in the territory of the former Ukraine), which treats the Russian Federation with hatred (this is beneficial to the United States); The Tauride Peninsula Erdogan, having support in his desires from a number of influential communities, he did not recognize as a territory legally assigned to the Russian Federation. And there are enough people in Turkey (ordinary hard workers) who consider Crimea to be their own - "allies in the thoughts with Erdogan."

    2) Will the hopes of the political business from the Russian Federation come true, connected with the fact that: "You gentlemen, the Turks will not go anywhere from our gas pipe" - this is the question. Time will tell.
    Relations with the former Ukraine were also built on self-confidence, built that "money selfishness" is the most important thing - for an insider ("the cream of society"). And then "at least the grass does not grow." How did all this end, we know, "got fucked" in a number of ways:
    a) The Russian-speaking population is killed in New Russia.
    b) Minsk meetings did not bring any sense.
    c) Crimea does not have land cover from the side of Novorossiya (temporarily in the "hostile influence of the Russian land").
    d) We continue to pump gas.
    e) Water through a water supply channel from Novorossia does not enter the Crimea.
    f) Loss of strategic allied enterprises (Motor Sich, Yuzhmash, etc.).
    g) The Russian-speaking population of the former Ukraine is being turned against the Russian Federation ("Hitler in hell is jealous that he did not succeed").
    g) The Yankees are building military bases for terrorist activities in the vicinity of Crimea.
    h) A negative signal was sent to the potential allies of the Russian Federation (not though, but ...) (should they be trusted if they do not keep their word towards the co-religionists, allies who gave their lives to the altar, for friendship in the Russian trinity (there are a minimum of positive moments, but how many missed opportunities)), etc.
    i) At the same time, the Turks have their own projects "related to hydrocarbons" in development.

    3) Will the construction of a nuclear power plant justify (this will affect Turkey’s dependence on the Russian Federation - this is a question)? Let's look at the dependence of the Russian Federation on a gas pipe in Ukraine. Money can solve everything.

    4) The West needs an alliance with Turkey against the Russian Federation, let's look into the past of the Russian-Turkish wars.

    5) Can the West make concessions for Erdogan, fueling his desires - selfish desires (for the first time) ...
    In Turkey, in Istanbul, there are "cells of societies" (societies in memory of the national hero Imam Shamil, who fought against the Russian army in the Caucasus in the 19th century); So, can a leader be forged under the guise of "nobility" in one of these societies for the interests of the pro-Western elite, this "imaginary leader" will lead (say) a general movement of a radical wing, to liberate oppressed peoples in the Caucasus from the aggression of infidels. And this "possible" leader - an ally of Turkey - ("the future Ottoman Empire") will be needed by the West for a certain time. Including his influence in the future on the territory of Iran (for the benefit of the West). Both the United States and other "well-wishers of Russia" will agree to a renewed alliance with Turkey.

    6) The destruction, destruction of Orthodoxy on the globe with the help of radical Islam is a priority.
    And Turkey does not need a stable Orthodox consciousness on the territory of Greece, Serbia, etc. A strong Turkey in the internal (moral side) - a strong structure (as a state) is not required by "Western democrats"; then the time will come and "Erdogan must be killed" (in theory).

    7) Having received a S-400 air defense system, the Yankees will disassemble them to the bolt. And despite the export version, they will receive a lot of useful things for themselves. According to the analysis (logistics in electronic intelligence, strategic studies of the potential of the electronic industry in the Russian Federation) they can obtain the necessary data for their own benefit - for further planning for the war against the Russian Federation.

    Let's see, wait and see.
    1. Eugene (Eugene)
      Eugene (Eugene) 8 January 2020 21: 51
      +2
      Political games are one thing, and the death of innocent people is another. The kingdom of heaven to the people who died in a plane crash, condolences to their families.
  • iouris
    iouris 8 January 2020 19: 11
    -2
    Consequences ... There will be no consequences (possibly). Turkey is pursuing a foreign policy that is separate from the United States and NATO. Logic suggests that Turkey's security interests are no longer associated with an imaginary or real threat from the Russian Federation. The RF is too weak to create such threats. Rather, the threat will be posed by the United States, which is pursuing a policy in the region that is dangerous for Turkey. The two states will have to cooperate in politics and economics, unless one of them critically weakens and loses its influence. The Russians do not have critical air defense technologies. There is a reserve that is due to the defensive nature of the defensive doctrine. If the United States wants to, it can easily create more effective systems, but it does not need this: its "defense" is of a pronounced offensive nature. The Turks are concerned and want to protect themselves from the US air special operation aimed at eliminating the state leader. They are also interested in military technology in general. For the Russian Federation, this alignment is beneficial, the USA and NATO, too, because Turkey is no longer viewed as an outpost. It is less obvious today that an economic cluster is being formed in the region, which will include Turkey and the Russian Federation (well, or what they will become in the foreseeable future).
    1. Bongo
      9 January 2020 02: 57
      +6
      Quote: iouris
      Russians have no critical technologies in the field of air defense.

      Oh really? Why, then, did the Turks so persistently seek to transfer technology to them when concluding a contract? And how many countries are able to independently create long-range air defense systems?
      Quote: iouris
      For the Russian Federation, this alignment is beneficial, the United States and NATO, too. No one is considering Turkey as an outpost. It’s less obvious today that an economic cluster is being formed in the region that will include Turkey and the Russian Federation (well, or what they will turn into in the foreseeable future).

      These theses are not supported by anything. No. Turkey was, is and will be a NATO country. Russia can offer nothing to Turkey, primarily because of the extremely unattractive domestic socio-economic policy.
  • Son of sorts
    Son of sorts 8 January 2020 20: 23
    -6
    In Greece With 300 from the 90th. Where is the analogue of the USA? Failure in Saudi Arabia, failure now in Iraq. China made a copy .... It flies 2 times less when it appears on the radar .... it is generally unknown ... They copied the Mig 29-copy after passing the speed of sound .... falls apart at 1200-1250 km / h ... . Such systems-DO NOT COPY! ON what is missing - SCHOOL! So everything is fine and no need to whine! Let's make MONEY! Yet they know no one will sell the REAL version! Everything is as always in the nuances! A boat of tar is always there ....-)
  • mamonthful
    mamonthful 9 January 2020 04: 02
    0
    let's remember what exactly pushed Turkey into the arms of NATO:

    "On March 19, 1945, the USSR denounced the Soviet-Turkish treaty of December 25, 1925

    The territorial claims of the USSR against Turkey were presented by the government of Joseph Stalin in the last months of World War II, simultaneously with the demand to introduce a regime of joint control and to place a Soviet naval base in the Black Sea straits. The USSR intended to annex the territories in Transcaucasia that had belonged to the Russian Empire since 1878, and in 1921 transferred to Turkey under the Soviet-Turkish treaty "On Friendship and Brotherhood", and to divide these lands between the Georgian SSR and the Armenian SSR. Not meeting the support of the other great powers and facing the escalation of the Cold War, in 1953 the USSR announced its rejection of territorial claims. "
  • Sergei1982
    Sergei1982 9 January 2020 12: 03
    +2
    [/ quote] [quote = Mixanson] After these deliveries, Erdogan is already in direct conflict with the US - NATO ..
    Well, technology, this is an export option, and Russia already has the S-500

    In wet mriy
    Official Ankara has confirmed the transfer to the American side of the technology of Russian anti-aircraft missile systems S-400.
    This decision was made by the Turkish authorities after the US authorities invited them to resume the sale of F-35 fighters.

    Today we started work on creating a mechanism for assessing the impact of S-400 and F-35. The process will be held together with the United States, said spokesman for the President of Turkey, Ibrahim Kalyn.

    It is worth noting that the “impact assessment” provides for the demonstration and transmission of information about the functional capabilities of Russian air defense systems. Including a demonstration of the fifth-generation fighter detection system.

    All Turkey merged the United States, as the author spoke about.
  • Mister X
    Mister X 9 January 2020 19: 23
    +1
    Ankara had the opportunity to purchase anti-aircraft systems in the amount of $ 3,5 billion.
    China offered 12 HQ-9 air defense divisions for $ 3,44 billion
    Author: Linnik Sergey

    So keep within the budget ...
    The Chinese were looking into the water wink
    1. Bongo
      10 January 2020 11: 46
      +3
      Quote: Mister X
      So keep within the budget ...
      The Chinese were looking into the water

      It only says that Chinese intelligence and analysts are not in vain eating bread.
      1. Mister X
        Mister X 10 January 2020 18: 04
        +1
        Quote: Bongo
        It only says that Chinese intelligence and analysts are not in vain eating bread.

        I agree, that's why I drew attention to the numbers.

        I myself participated in tenders 10-15 years ago.
        When drawing up the proposal, it was very important to know which Organizer has a budget.
        Otherwise, the Participant risks flying by.
        Sometimes it was possible to get insider information.
        When accurate, and when not.

        Thanks to the "tip", at one tender I rolled out an offer of $ 1 million.
        Everyone in the audience whistled, and looked at me with respect.
        Offers of my competitors ranged from $ 170 - $ 210 thousand.
        And the Organizer’s budget was $ 200 thousand ...

        There were tenders where the documents indicated not only the necessary characteristics, but also the amount of the budget was announced.
        There were tenders like "Everything was stolen before you."
        And there were honest tenders.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 January 2020 08: 21
    -3
    Well, they bought an air defense system, then what? Even the USSR was not particularly steamed in this regard, if the party was large, and its cost was comparable to the development of its own. But he steamed so that there was no information about Soviet weapons in the Soviet press. Yes, it worked out well. And so, the Americans, of course, do not know how to deal with air defense systems, so far to them.

    and Russian planes were shot down by anti-aircraft missiles produced in our country


    The author is generally talking about ?? About Soviet missiles that were divided between the republics? Well, the Ukrainians destroyed the Donbass with Soviet weapons and are still trying.