Military Review

“It's a miracle if someone is killed with a spear”

146
“It's a miracle if someone is killed with a spear”

Wheel gun: weapon, which created a new kind of troops in Europe - the cavalry of pistols. Pistols made for noble people got off very richly. Sometimes the surface of the tree behind all kinds of inlays was simply not visible. (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)


"... and the cavalry was divided into two parts."
First Book of Maccabees 9: 11


Military affairs at the turn of the eras. It just so happened that in the Middle Ages in Italy, wars practically did not subside. But the endless wars between the Guelphs and Ghibellines, that is, the papal throne and the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, especially bothered everyone. Naturally, the decline in people was enormous, so they started to hire mercenaries very early there (first of all, rich trading cities), equip them with knightly armor and send them into battle against the feudal nobility. And she also did not lag behind and tried to recruit mercenaries so that they fought instead of them and their children.

Condottas and Condottiers


True, the first mercenaries were not the Italians, but the Catalans, whose troops were willing to serve for a fee in Venice, and in Genoa, and in Constantinople. Nevertheless, in Italy, condottieres, that is, condotta commanders, appeared already in 1379, when Alberico di Barbiano formed his "Company of St. George." The most interesting, however, is that from the very beginning, Italian condottieres tried to carry a “good war” in contrast to the “bad war” waged by the Germans and Swiss. Those prisoners were not taken (especially the Swiss, who simply slaughtered them like cattle!), Burned cities and villages, that is, they behaved like real barbarians. Italian condottiers didn’t do that. Since they recruited their troops with their own money, they resorted to war as such only as a last resort, and as far as possible they did without shots. They were slow and careful, maneuvered a lot and preferred negotiations and bribery to the cruelties of the “bad war”. Sometimes in battles there were not even wounded or there were only a few, and losing a mercenary for a condottier at the time was the same as today for Americans to lose an Abrams tank in some Iraq.


Reytra armor, approx. 1625 g. Belonged to Jacob Hannibal II, Count of Hohenhem (1595 — 1646). Master: Hans Jacob Topf, Plattner (1605 - 1628, Innsbruck). Materials: blued iron, leather, velvet. (Imperial Arsenal, Hall VIII, Vienna) Pay attention to the very lush leggings. They were needed to cover the same magnificent, padded with cotton pants

Condotta was led by the captain, and the “baners” (same as the “banner”) included in her units were commanded by the “bannereres” (“denominators”). Usually in the “baner” there were 25 “copies”, 20 of which made up the “squadron”, and 10 - “ensign”, under the command of the decurion. The “post” included the last five “copies”. He was commanded by a corporal.


Armor with the forerunner. At the same time, the armor of ordinary infantrymen and horsemen over time more simplified and gradually reduced to a cuirass and helmet - morion or cabinet. This armor, however, is interesting in that it has a detachable predecessor attached to the cuirass on hooks. Most likely it was a spearman's gear. It would hardly be convenient to shoot a pistol and charge it with such a “shield” in the face (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)

In turn, the Italian "spear" was smaller in number than the French and Burgundy. It included a trio of warriors: equestrian armor, his page and ecuier swordsman. The infantrymen did not enter the “spear” and in general there were few of them in the “condotta”. They were called "fancy" and from this word came the French word "fantasy", that is, "infantryman."


Italian horseman armor, approx. 1570 Mr. Belonged to Giacomo Soranzo. (1518 - 1599) Materials: blued iron, black velvet, leather. The extremely coarse forging of cuirasses is noteworthy. In fact, it did not even get off, and immediately after forging it was burnished (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna)

And just after the model of the Italian condottes, the Ordonance companies in France, Burgundy and Austria began to be created subsequently. Their number, as we already know, was greater than that of Italians. By this, the European monarchs tried to compensate for the worst training than the Italians, who drew their military experience in the treatises of the ancient Greeks and Romans, and which only later became available to other European peoples.


Armor made around 1570 of the year. Owners: Kings Henry III and Henry II (1551 — 1589). Currently not billed. Material: gilded iron, leather. Fittings - brass. (Imperial Arsenal, Vienna) Note that the skill of the armored masters did not go anywhere at that time, but ... on the one hand, they made wonderful examples of knightly and horseman armor, and on the other, mass cuirasses and morions were riveted in huge quantities.

The cavalry is divided into parts ...


It should be noted that progress in the field of military equipment at that time was very fast. So, arquebuses with a lid for a powder shelf, a spring trigger and a wick lock in Germany in 1475 were produced in droves. In the 1510 year they received a shield protecting the shooter's eyes from the hot powder parts, flying apart when fired, the first pistols in the same Germany appeared already in the 1517. Moreover, it is believed that the same wheel lock for the gun was invented by Leonardo da Vinci somewhere around 1480 - 1485. The first wick pistols appeared at all around the year 1480, but they were inconvenient for riders, so they were not widely used at first.

However, at first all the innovations were aimed precisely at stopping the avalanche of horsemen riveted in armor, who in the past primarily lacked only one thing - discipline. To resist the attacks of the gendarmes, dressed in such perfect armor that they did not even need shields, could only be one way. Set against them a picket fence from the peak. And the foot soldiers massively turn into pikemen, and the length of their copies increases to 5 and even 7 meters. Owning such a “superpeak” was difficult, but even the most untrained recruit could afford it. All that was required of him was to rest it on the ground, to press it with his foot, and with both hands to direct towards the approaching riders, while trying to stick her horse in the neck or hit the rider. It is clear that he could not break through the armor, but having hit such a peak, the rider risked flying out of the saddle, and a fall in 30-kilogram armor to the ground usually put him out of order.


Half-armor belonging to Freicherr Johannes Baptista (1552 - 1588). OK. 1585 d. Materials: black etched iron, leather, green linen lining. (Imperial Arsenal, Hall VIII, Vienna). Over time, the “three-quarters” armor completely gave way to such half-armor. These armor had no elbow pieces at all. Their role was played by trumpets of plate gloves. Trace from the bullet in the most prominent place, most likely - a kind of quality mark

And, of course, it was most convenient to kill such horsemen with other horsemen, namely, horse-drawn arquebusiers, who appeared in the French army by decree of Francis I in 1534. By this time, in addition to the gendarmes, light-mounted chevolier riders appeared in the French cavalry, used for reconnaissance and protection. Now 10-50 people of horse arquebusiers were added to each company to them. And immediately it became clear that in order to shoot from the arquebuses, they did not need to get off the horse at all, which was very convenient in all respects.


Rapier with a "flaming blade." Around 1600 of the year, Northern Italy, Milan. The sword was replaced by a sword at this time, as well as a crossbow - an arquebus and a pistol. Decorations of the hilt in the form of the heads of the Moors are a tribute to the tradition born of traveling to exotic countries (Imperial Arsenal, Hall VIII, Vienna)

Then the varieties of light cavalry began to multiply in number more and more, and the cost of their weapons decreased. Dragoons appeared - speargun dragoons and arquebuzir dragoons, which in essence became an analogue of pike-infantry and arquebuzir infantry, carabinieri are natives of Calabria. Armed with carbines or escopettes with rifled barrels, as well as “Albanians”, also called Estradiots, dressed as Turks, only without a turban on their heads and wore a cassette, cuirass and plate gloves. The latter, for example, were hired by Louis XII to fight in Italy, and the Venetians - to fight with Louis. At the same time, they paid a ducat for the head of every Frenchman, so it was not cheap to hire them!


A rapier, circa 1600, belonging either to Emperor Rudolph II himself, or being his gift to one of his favorites. Blade: Pietro Formigano, (approx. 1600, Padua) Handle: Daniel Sadeler (metal cutter, before 1602 - Antwerp) (Imperial Arsenal, Hall VIII, Vienna)

Cuirassiers and Reitars appear on the battlefield


The problem, however, was that with all the effectiveness of the lance heavy and light cavalry, the cost of the first was already too high. Only a horse dressed in horse armor could survive without harm, but they were very heavy - 30-50 kg and roads, plus the rider's armor - also 30 kg and its own weight, plus a sword (and often not one) and a spear. As a result, the horse had to carry a large load, so the plate cavalry required tall, strong and very expensive horses. Moreover, as soon as a horse was incapacitated, the price of its rider on the battlefield dropped to zero at once. In addition, again, remember that the armor was now worn by the infantry, and the armor of the riders became extremely durable. The chronicler Francois de La Well, nicknamed "Iron Hand" and the captain in the army of the French Huguenots (1531 - 1591), for example, wrote in the year 1590: "A gun can penetrate defensive weapons, but a spear cannot. It’s a miracle if someone is killed with a spear. ”


Two spanish wick muskets. C. 1545 of the year. The stock and forend of the lower one with the “Spanish butt” are covered in black velvet and studded with nails with gilded hats

Therefore, any reduction in the cost of horseman weapons by the sovereigns was only welcomed. “Take away his spear and a good horse from the spearman, and then it will be a cuirassier,” wrote one Wallhausen in 1618. However, the cuirassiers' armor also underwent, so to speak, “secularization”. Legplates - sabatons and greaves, difficult to manufacture and fit on the leg, were removed, and the leggings were made only on the front of the thighs and in the form of plates falling on each other. To fit them in size was much easier, which was also helped by the fashion for chubby, padded with cotton, pants. Legplates were replaced by taut leather cavalry boots. Also not cheap, but compared to plate footwear, which gave considerable savings. And armor plates were always easier to do than legs. In addition, they now began to be replaced with chain mail, while cuirasses began to be produced using stamping. The armor stopped polishing, and began to cover with a thick layer of black paint. Reutars, natives of Germany, also used similar armor, which is why they received the nickname of “black devils” and “black gangs,” and for their weapons both reitars and cuirassiers were also called guns, “pistols,” since they , and for others it was the pistol that became now the main weapon, a spear substitute. On the other hand, the same La Nou wrote about the other, namely, that to protect against bullets from arquebusiers and musketeers, as well as brutal kicks, many began to make the armor more durable and resistant than before. Additional plate armor plates have come into fashion, that is, riders, like modern Tanksstarted using multilayer exploded armor!

PS The author and site administration express their heartfelt gratitude to the curators of the Vienna Armory Ilse Jung and Florian Kugler for the opportunity to use her photographs.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Ordonance companies
146 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. tanit
    tanit 23 November 2019 06: 12 New
    13
    And again, a beautiful article about beautiful armor. Vyacheslav Olegovich, but about Ainu will be?))
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 23 November 2019 07: 02 New
      10
      Excellent article, thank you! hi A rapier with a flaming blade - impressed! belay I don’t even imagine the technology of its forging ...
      And yet, tell me - when there will be a continuation of "about Soldiers", I really look forward to!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 23 November 2019 11: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Hunter 2
        A rapier with a flaming blade - impressed!

        also drew attention: a very figurative name of the blade.

        What is even more impressive is the amazingly CAREFUL, scrupulous, reverent attitude to his Story: with what love everything is collected, preserved, described! hi
      2. phair
        phair 25 November 2019 01: 46 New
        0
        They say that the owners of such weapons were executed without trial. The flaming blade was then equated to WMD.
        1. dmmyak40
          dmmyak40 5 December 2019 23: 42 New
          0
          Тоже неоднократно где-то читал, что владельца пламевидного оружия казнили сразу же на месте. Это как пули "дум-дум" позже..
    2. kalibr
      23 November 2019 08: 03 New
      10
      Уважаемый Вадим. С айнами так. Когда я писал книгу про самураев, то меня уже просили про них написать. И я что-то даже искал, куда-то писал... то есть "движуха была". Но книга вышла, тема на ВО перестала выходить и как-то все рассосалось. Теперь надо искать в архиве и опять писать в администрацию Хоккайдо. Это все можно, но потребует времени. Увы!
      1. tanit
        tanit 23 November 2019 14: 00 New
        0
        Что ж, жаль. Впрочем, то, что Вы уже написали и выложили на ВО... Можно долго перечитывать)). Клянусь, когда уеду "на пмж" в Россию-обязательно найду и куплю все Ваши книги, изданные в бумаге.))
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 November 2019 06: 12 New
    +9
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you very much for Saturday's reading! Getting used to the good.
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. tanit
      tanit 23 November 2019 06: 23 New
      +6
      Влад, извините, но это-не чтиво. Это можно читать и перечитывать, да. Но "чтиво" - как то не совсем подходящий термин.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 November 2019 06: 33 New
        +6
        I apologize if I offended the Author!
        To be honest, I never thought about terminology! In my understanding, “reading” are periodical articles. In content, they are like any job - different! In our case, Vyacheslav Olegovich is traditionally exceptionally good! Disposable, in principle, is not considered !!! The other side of the coin is the attitude to creative work, it may go, or it may not! But definitely - this is work and work.
        So again - sorry if you unwittingly offended anyone.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 23 November 2019 07: 33 New
      +4
      Hello, hello! We don’t need to get used to the good, otherwise it will become a habit, and life is such a thing ... unpredictable. smile
    3. kalibr
      23 November 2019 08: 04 New
      +6
      К хорошему привыкаешь быстро! Зачем Вы, Константин, пытаетесь поселить неверие в лучшее в сердце досточтимого пана? Ай-ай! К тому же у него есть для этого все основания. В "запаснике" у редакции на неделю у меня каждую всегда "висит" 6 статей. Редакция всегда может выбрать... И даже если что-то случится - не дай Бог, в понедельник, еще 6 материалов Вам гарантированы.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 23 November 2019 09: 08 New
        +5
        Вячеслав, так я ж не к одному Владу, я ко всем нашим и к себе в первую очередь. Когда слишком многого ожидаешь и всё вылетает в трубу, разочарование бывает очень тяжелым. Я ведь не пессимист и стакан у меня всегда "наполовину полный", так что будем жить и радоваться жизни, жизнь, она сама по себе штука хорошая.
        Как там, в "Дне триффидов", сказала слепая девушка: "Жизнь прекрасна, даже такая". Ну, а мы, слава богу, все зрячие и будем читать и в дальнейшем Ваши так сближающие нас всех статьи. drinks
        1. kalibr
          23 November 2019 09: 41 New
          +3
          Karasho, said, well done! Dzhigit sovsem!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 23 November 2019 09: 45 New
            +3
            Glad to try Vasheskabrod! soldier
        2. kalibr
          23 November 2019 11: 48 New
          +1
          "Ночь триффидов" еще почитайте...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 23 November 2019 11: 50 New
            +1
            And who is the author, is Wyndham really?
            1. tanit
              tanit 23 November 2019 16: 57 New
              -1
              The gods sometimes make mistakes.))
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 November 2019 18: 21 New
            +1
            Я таки жутко извиняюсь за свое "гопничество"", но "Ночь Триффидов", это что?
            1. certero
              certero 24 November 2019 09: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              , но "Ночь Триффидов", это что?

              Не читайте. Если "День Триффидов" был почти шедевром фантастики, то это уже почти шлак.
              Впрочем, немалая заслуга в этом положении авторов перевода, "День ... - переводили Стругацкие
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 23 November 2019 18: 04 New
          +2
          "Этот мир лучше не становится, и мы - вместе с ним".
          К слову, меня уже лет 25 интересует, откуда у более старшего поколения такая страсть к цитированию и упоминанию "День триффидов"?
          1. certero
            certero 24 November 2019 09: 26 New
            +2
            к цитированию и упоминанию "День триффидов"?

            One of the few apocalypse novels published in the USSR. In addition, the translation of the Strugatsky. There was a song - I still remember :)
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 24 November 2019 12: 17 New
              +1
              Hi colleague. hi Так кто всё-таки автор "Ночи триффидов", интересно знать кто замахнулся на "библию апокалипсиса". А вот песню из "Дня" совершенно не помню, хотя в своё время перечитывал не раз.
              1. certero
                certero 25 November 2019 01: 55 New
                +1
                The author of the original Wyndham book, translated by the Strugatsky. The song was funny there: when I die, don’t bury me, take my body and drown in alcohol. In the legs and in the heads, put me a barrel then grave worms do not eat my liver.
                It’s funny, but I’m writing a song from memory and I read a book hell knows how many years ago :)
              2. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 5 December 2019 23: 46 New
                +1
                Автор "Ночи триффидов" - Саймон Кларк.
    4. kalibr
      23 November 2019 08: 24 New
      +4
      Владислав, какие обиды? Ссылок на документы и солидные монографии нет? Нет! Значит "чтиво".
  3. Phil77
    Phil77 23 November 2019 06: 23 New
    +9
    Good morning to everyone! Vyacheslav Olegovich, can I ask a question? Well, why should this nice guy Count Hohenhem have fashionable pants under his armor? Vidok somehow turned out, well, not at all heroic, rather the opposite. And the article is wonderful! Thank you!
    1. bubalik
      bubalik 23 November 2019 06: 33 New
      +9
      Sergei hi
      the guy Count Guogenem fashionable pants under the armor?
      ,,, Think Earl !!! belay and if captured, the armor will be removed and he will be underneath lol Embarrassment!!!
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 November 2019 06: 41 New
      +7
      Quote: Phil77
      Good morning to everyone! Vyacheslav Olegovich, can I ask a question? Well, why should this nice guy Count Hohenhem have fashionable pants under his armor? Vidok somehow turned out, well, not at all heroic, rather the opposite. And the article is wonderful! Thank you!

      Good morning Sergey! Let me give you my version.
      “For the counts, fashionable shorts are all!” There are trusels with bombs, ruffles and bows - you're a griff. No - not a guff!
      - Well, if, and if, are there rivets gilded on the codpiece?
      - Then some kind of prince! With rivets - just a prick!

      Good day to everyone, Vlad!
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 23 November 2019 06: 48 New
        +5
        Vlad, Sergey !!! I am glad to meet you both early in the morning on the site! Your versions are accepted, but it’s probably better to get captured in fashionable pants than in fashionable pants. I confess, I never thought about that! recourse recourse No.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 23 November 2019 07: 29 New
          +6
          "Встал сегодня утром рано -- нет луиса корвалана вот она, вот она, хунта поработала. " (С) wink

          Серёг, в плен вообще лучше не попадать, наверное... Вот если Олегыч за амазонок напишет, то можно и поразмышлять над сюжетом, как там было: "В плену обаятельных ручек барахтался бедный поручик", вот не помню слов точно. Но на определённые мысли настраивает. drinks
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 23 November 2019 07: 32 New
            +3
            Ha! Well, about the * obligatory pens * and * the poor lieutenant was floundering * wait for Anton. We will hear the clang of tracks and the thunder of commentary, we will understand everything right away! laughing
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 23 November 2019 07: 36 New
              +3
              Ha, he was busy, and was not promised to attend. I tapped him for a tank near Yermolov, but he didn’t even react. Work, worries ... request
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 23 November 2019 07: 41 New
                +4
                No luck. And I had two days off for once, driving them to the store for * cat food * and to the book * binge *. I downloaded the book about * Kursk * - I need to read it, apparently from the author my own view of that event.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 23 November 2019 07: 43 New
                  +4
                  And I temporarily drove away - the battery turned sour, tomorrow the guys will be taken to Ryazan for charging. So I'm also sitting at home.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 23 November 2019 07: 47 New
                    +4
                    Everything is at home, everything is on the site! bully Missing, wait.
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 23 November 2019 18: 56 New
                    +3
                    Ха, аккумулятор! Тут "омывайка" сдохла в очередной раз! Так и езжу: плюну на лобовое, пукну на зеркала, возрадуюсь, что не в Москве, и поеду, молясь "большому автомобильному богу"
                    1. bubalik
                      bubalik 23 November 2019 19: 10 New
                      +4
                      Тут "омывайка" сдохла в очередной раз!
                      ,,, tanks are not afraid of dirt laughing
                      hi
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 November 2019 19: 18 New
                        +4
                        Tanks are afraid of imbeciles on electric scooters
                      2. bubalik
                        bubalik 23 November 2019 19: 19 New
                        +4
                        ,,, large stock?
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 November 2019 19: 25 New
                        +4
                        Большое??? Немеряное!!! И если "велосипые" хоть как-то придерживаются ПДД, то электроприводные гомосексуалисты, о них и не слышали!
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 24 November 2019 12: 22 New
                        +2
                        По этому поводу почему-то вспомнился Высоцкий (если не ошибаюсь): "Проклятый частный собственник в зелёных-красно-белых Жигулях..." А потом "герой песни" сам купил машину и все пешеходы тут же стали проклЯтыми. laughing
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 November 2019 16: 38 New
                        +2
                        Not at all, Konstantin! Ever since I got behind the wheel, I became very punctual and neat in my walking personality.
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 24 November 2019 17: 29 New
                        +2
                        But my wife holds me by the tail so that he doesn’t run on red. True, I have one hypostasis - pedestrian, quadrics do not count. This, in my opinion, Yulian Semyonov wrote that Stirlitz recognized his compatriots abroad by the way they cross the street.
                        Yes, but I solved the problem, the guys bought me a charge and today I’ll put the battery to charge for the night. smile
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 November 2019 17: 53 New
                        +1
                        Regarding the latter - the world is not without good people
  • bubalik
    bubalik 23 November 2019 07: 36 New
    +5
    Amazons are deified, but not adored. smile
    Cruel and bloodthirsty women, armed with machetes and muskets, for 250 years were an elite part of the army of the kingdom of Dahomey (now the state of Benin) in West Africa. belay
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 23 November 2019 07: 41 New
      +4
      Hello Seryozha hi Не, у меня уже не тот возраст, чтобы женщину обожествлять, это к юношам "со взором горящим". А насчёт чёрненьких дамочек с самопалами и ножичками, так наш Сергей только что выше что-то про лязг гусениц говорил. smile
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 23 November 2019 07: 45 New
        +2
        Konstantin, Konstantin !!! You hinted so subtly that with caterpillars and on a soft, black, female body ???? angry laughing stop
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 23 November 2019 07: 48 New
          +2
          Не, я совсем не про тело, а про то, что самопал танку не ровня. Амазонки... Как там Василь Иваныч говорил: "Кия-я-я с голой пяткой на шашку..." и вытер клинок пучёчком травы. laughing
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 23 November 2019 09: 21 New
    +6
    Good morning everyone.
    Музей им Пушкина лет десять назад выпустил отличную книгу "Амазономахия" - правда она не про "бархатные ручки", а как принято писать на форумах ВО, скучные научные изыскания про амазонок, точнее, про них все понятно, три строчки в источниках - никаких загадок, но как потом эту тему развивали, резвились, додумывали греки и римляне в изобразительном искусстве и пр. laughing
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 08: 39 New
    +4
    Сергей! Еще раз пишу обратите внимание. В первом ответе написал, что это дворцовые доспехи. Ошибся, "не туда посмотрел". Читайте второй ответ.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 23 November 2019 06: 30 New
    +9
    hi Good day to all
    Lord - exclaimed Hamrot. - And which of them are the best?

    - It depends on the weapon. The Englishman shoots the best from a crossbow, he will pierce the shell with an arrow, and he will hit the pigeon a hundred steps. Czechs fear as axes chopped. As for the two-handed sword, then the German will not yield to anyone. The Swiss minted helmet will easily split the helmet; but there is no better knight than from French land. This one beats both on horseback and on foot, and at the same time pours audacious words ...
    ,, Crusaders ,,
  • Catfish
    Catfish 23 November 2019 06: 45 New
    +5
    Two spanish wick muskets. C. 1545 of the year. The stock and forend of the lower one with the “Spanish butt” are covered in black velvet and studded with nails with gilded hats


    Butt with black velvet and gold nails! I'm bastard! And someone else over the deceased Gaddafi scoffed at the gilded AKM. lol
    Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegich separately for a wheeled pistol, a pretty toy, damn it! good
    А Ла Ну , случаем, не гонит, что из этой "фитюльки" доспех пробивали, у него бой от силы на двадцать шагов. )))

    Guys, hello everyone and my best wishes! drinks
    1. kalibr
      23 November 2019 08: 15 New
      +4
      Maybe they didn’t get out of this - I meant the gun, the first drawing. You see the length of the trunk. But there were special Reiter pistols in half a meter in length and caliber from 13 to 17 mm. and now they pierced everything nafig ... with 20 steps. And the musket was 8 kg in weight, and the one who shot a bullet in 60 g. Punched everything. Or not all, but the force of the blow, it ... acted ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 23 November 2019 08: 56 New
        +4
        Рейтарские пистолеты знаю, были у нас в отделе. Чисто рабочие инструменты, никакой отделки, всё исключительно на функциональность, но сама по себе работа очень хороша, это бросалось в глаза, особенно качество изготовления замков, ведь сколько лет прошло, а смотрелись как новенькие, особенно в контрасте с "деревяшкой". Но вот не думаю, что металлические латы он мог пробить, скорее был бы рикошет, а вот кожаный нагрудник наверняка шил навылет. Ну, а мушкет, это смотря какой калибр и пороховой заряд -- мог просто как кувалдой сбить с "капытков".
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 23 November 2019 22: 05 New
      +2
      А Ла Ну , случаем, не гонит, что из этой "фитюльки" доспех пробивали, у него бой от силы на двадцать шагов.
      In 1988-1989, in Graz, Landeszeughaus employees conducted an extensive program for studying the ballistic characteristics of firearms of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, including its effect on armor. The tests were conducted at the Austrian army training ground with the involvement of scientists from the University of Toronto.
      Among the shot samples was the Reiters wheeled pistol, made in Germany in 1620.

      About this one. Barrel length 480 mm, caliber 12,3 mm, bullet weight 9,56 g, gunpowder hitch
      Kôln-Rottweil Nr. 0 - 6,0 gr.
      The initial speed of the bullet is 438 m / s, the speed of the bullet at a distance of 30 m is 355 m / s.
      Muzzle energy - 917 J, (9 × 19 mm Parabellum 450-650 J), at 30 meters a bullet pierced a steel plate 2 mm thick. At the same distance when shooting at a target from spruce bars, it entered the target at 121 mm. The maximum range of a bullet is 812 meters.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 24 November 2019 12: 27 New
        +1
        Clear.
        Длина ствола+калибр+навеска порохового заряда+качество самого пороха -- там всё это могло "гулять" в совершенно непредсказуемых параметрах.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 24 November 2019 13: 01 New
          +1
          К указанному времени практически все названные проблемы были решены. Вы сами отметили качество изготовления пистолетов. Стволы уже сверлили, порох зернили, патроны бумажные тоже ввели. Посему о "совершенной непредсказуемости" говорить не стоит. Я думаю, разброс не сильно превышал тот, который получается при домашнем "сельском" снаряжении патронов.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 November 2019 13: 04 New
            +1
            Всё правильно, но вот совершенно не уверен, что сверловка стволов в то время никак не "гуляла", да и производство пороха, хоть для того времени было и на уровне, но всё же...
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 24 November 2019 13: 30 New
              +1
              Of course, the tolerances were not micron, but then they already learned to drill barrels under a round bullet.
              In the Vienna Imperial Armory there are two rifles with a wheeled lock, one from about 1590, the barrel of which with a length of 1950 mm has a drilling diameter of 19 mm, the second about 1620, has a barrel 2755 mm long with a caliber of 14 mm. So the pistol barrel did not constitute a problem to drill. Gunpowder was already sorted by grain size and had an idea about the effect of grain sizes on the parameters of the shot. So to shoot a man, even in armor, was not a problem even in those distant times.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 24 November 2019 13: 39 New
                +1
                It turns out that indeed history is developing in a spiral. And now everything has returned to normal: body armor is a bullet. It seems that humanity will never get rid of the idea of ​​how to technologically kill its neighbor. request
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 24 November 2019 14: 04 New
                  +1
                  I don’t remember where, I met statistics that 25% of scientists work to destroy, using the results of the remaining 75%.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 23 November 2019 07: 11 New
    +3
    Reytra armor, approx. 1625 g. Belonged to Jacob Hannibal II, Count of Hohenhem (1595 — 1646). Master: Hans Jacob Topf, Plattner (1605 - 1628, Innsbruck). Materials: blued iron, leather, velvet. (Imperial Arsenal, Hall VIII, Vienna) Pay attention to the very lush leggings. They were needed to cover the same magnificent, padded with cotton pants

    Is the play of light or is the chest of the cuirass really concave?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 23 November 2019 07: 27 New
      +4
      But you’re right! Apparently the graph didn’t weak at that time. Upon closer examination, it is clear that there is also a rivet almost in place. Vyacheslav Olegovich! We ask your answer to the question.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 23 November 2019 07: 19 New
    +4
    Their number, as we already know, was greater than that of Italians. By this, the European monarchs tried to compensate for the worst training of Italians, who drew their military experience in treatises of the ancient Greeks and Romans and which only later became available to other European peoples.

    Имелось в виду "лучшую выучку итальянцев"???
    Либо "худшую выучку своих войск".
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 08: 12 New
    +4
    Quote: Phil77
    Well, why, for this nice guy Count Hohenhem fashionable pants under armor?

    Добрый день и Вам. А ответ такой? он же не в бой это одевал! У знати ношение доспехов в это время стало... дворцовой униформой. Мол, по первому зову готов! А почему наши в Кремле гражданские наркомы ходили в форменных кителях? Подсознание. Намек... мы,мол, "армия тоже". Готовы!!! Так было всегда. А Перикл ходил по Афинам в шлеме. "Он мне идет!" Тоже подсознательно хотел всем показать, что готов к защите Афин 24 часа в сутки.
    1. sivuch
      sivuch 23 November 2019 10: 32 New
      +3
      Yes, Pericles, according to rumors, was simply embarrassed - his skull was of some ugly shape
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 23 November 2019 15: 06 New
        +2
        Было прозвище "С головой луковицей". Но ещё нравится описание головы, которая "вовсе не кончалась".
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 08: 13 New
    +3
    Quote: Flood
    "лучшую выучку итальянцев"

    Oh my little hands and playful ...
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 23 November 2019 21: 39 New
      +1
      Something recalled a letter from Alba to Philip II
      For the sake of love for the Lord, do not hire Italians, this is money down the drain. As for the Germans, send another 10 thousand.

      Quote from memory.
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 08: 22 New
    +6
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Now, if Olegitch writes for the Amazons, then we can reflect on the plot,

    За амазонок - нет. В свое время писал книгу для британского изд-ва МОНТВЕРТ "Враги Рима: Причерноморье и Крым" и прочитал по ним все, что можно. Можно сделать статью в "желтый журнал" с душераздирающим описанием выжигания левой сиськи, но к реальности это будет иметь малое отношение. А приводить цитаты их древних авторов? Их сам может найти любой!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 23 November 2019 19: 28 New
      +3
      In the fig, left, when right ?!
  • Nitochkin
    Nitochkin 23 November 2019 08: 22 New
    +4
    У Веллера в книге "Легенды невского проспекта" есть повесть "Оружейник Тарасюк". В ней упоминается пламенеющий клинок. Правда не рапира, а меч. Книга художественная, но все же.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 23 November 2019 19: 37 New
      +4
      Л. И. Тарасюк - легенда питерского и росийского оружиеведения. Вполне реальный человек, мало общего имевший с легендами Невского проспекта, воплощенными в "букве" Веллером.
      1. Nitochkin
        Nitochkin 24 November 2019 07: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        L. I. Tarasyuk - the legend of St. Petersburg and Russiaссийского оружиеведения. Вполне реальный человек, мало общего имевший с легендами Невского проспекта, воплощенными в "букве" Веллером.

        This is a completely different topic and does not apply specifically to the flaming blade.
        I learned about the functionality of a flaming blade from Weller, before that I thought that such a shape of the blade was for beauty.
        But thanks for the information, I thought Professor Tarasyuk was a fictional person. Be sure to read about him.
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 08: 32 New
    +3
    Quote: Phil77
    But you’re right! Apparently the graph didn’t weak at that time. Upon closer examination, it is clear that there is also a rivet almost in place. Vyacheslav Olegovich! We ask your answer to the question.

    To begin with, this is combat armor. In the previous comment on the armor in the palace, I made a mistake - I thought the wrong ones. This battle and yes - on the cuirass on the right (how to look) there is a big dent. Not from a bullet. But from what? I do not claim, I do not know, but it can be from the kernel. Amazing Well no. In the Battle of Borodino, Nadezhda Durova received a shell shock from the nucleus in her leg and was severely limp. The leg was crimson and badly hurt. But she did not leave the system and only Kutuzov persuaded her to go home for treatment. That is, the core fell into her leg below the knee, it hurt, but the bone did not crush !!! And if this could be a goal in 1812, then why couldn’t it be earlier?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 23 November 2019 08: 45 New
      +2
      Dear Author, good morning! Vyacheslav Olegovich, a little asked about the count’s biography and it turned out that he was not noticed in serious alterations. And nevertheless, is there a dent on the cuirass, a mystery?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 November 2019 09: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: Phil77
        Dear Author, good morning! Vyacheslav Olegovich, a little asked about the count’s biography and it turned out that he was not noticed in serious alterations. And nevertheless, is there a dent on the cuirass, a mystery?

        From the husband of the mistress from a balcony jumped !!! wassat
        Now seriously.
        In the military writings of the Authors of those years, the infantry was proposed to keep the peaks upright with artillery fire. And think for what? Military theorists of those years believed that when a core hit the picket fence, the peak lost speed and fell, causing minimal damage.
        So, no comment!
        You want to live and you don’t get it!
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 08: 35 New
    +4
    Quote: Hunter 2
    And yet, tell me - when there will be a continuation of "about Soldiers", I really look forward to!

    Одна статья на модерации, то есть вот-вот пойдет "в печать". Вторая написана.
  • Andrey Sukharev
    Andrey Sukharev 23 November 2019 09: 12 New
    +5
    Condotta was led by the captain, and the “baners” (same as the “banner”) included in her units were commanded by the “bannereres” (“denominators”). Usually in the “banier” there were 25 “copies”, 20 of which were “squadron”, and 10 - “ensign”, under the command of the decurion. The “post” included the last five “copies”. Corporal commanded him


    Dear Caliber, do not consider it as arrogance, but the sum of the terms in this case does not give 25 ...
    Request for commentators - throw as soft objects as possible! lol
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 23 November 2019 17: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Andrey Sukharev
      Dear Caliber, do not consider it as arrogance, but the sum of the terms in this case does not give 25 ...

      I, too, only after reading it, understood.
      The offer came out not very digestible.
      Автор имел в виду, что двадцатка "скводрон" делилась на два десятка "энсень".
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 23 November 2019 09: 15 New
    +7
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I read it with pleasure.
    I would like to add that there is a picture in Alcazar that perfectly illustrates your work, there knights in armor shoot pistols, unfortunately it hangs very high and the photos I got are very bad (.
    But such a battle in an identical picture I saw for the first time.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 November 2019 09: 34 New
      +2
      If I'm not mistaken, these cavalrymen were called Derbents!
      The procedure for their use in the equestrian halftone system and in the carousel was described in an interesting way.
      Receptions are an order of magnitude more complicated than banal linear tactics.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 23 November 2019 11: 07 New
        +3
        Vladislav,
        good morning,
        I can not say anything about the subject.
        But about the tactics. Tactics changed during the period described by the author, but the reasons were different: military evolution, in my opinion, is not always linear: only from light to heavy (for example) or rational. As many examples as you like. Under the influence of the Roman military treatises, in the period under review, they began to use actions that are not always comparable to the combat situation.
        Therefore, often the attempt of modern “military” reconstructors or simply reflecting on the military topics of the past, based on modern ideas about the war or logic, is extremely erroneous. The discussions that we see in VO are an example. Moreover, when and what tactics were introduced, we know clearly that military affairs, as you know, is an extremely conservative direction of human activity and a good example of how “revolutions” affect development.
        That is, from the XVI century. The “knights” rode the same way as before, but some did not with spears, but with pistols. It is on the surface without going into details.
        Passion for antiquity: the ceremonial equipment of Charles V (Arsenal, Madrid), the first thing he found, Rubens was not at hand laughing By the way, in addition to the same Karl, he depicted in the styles of antiquity Henry IV:
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 23 November 2019 20: 17 New
        +2
        These cavalrymen were called cuirassiers, and the maneuver was called a caracol.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 November 2019 20: 48 New
          +3
          Thanks Victor Nikolaevich! hi
    2. kalibr
      23 November 2019 09: 35 New
      +4
      Glad you liked it. About Alcazar - envy. In Spain, the second time, where only I was not wearing. But ... he never got to Alcazar and Almeria.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 23 November 2019 13: 57 New
        +3
        Vyacheslav Olegovich,
        what problems, you’ll visit, I remembered my promise here, I bought the full Arsenal catalog in Madrid, leafed through, after your article, found the equipment of the infants, I’ll send a scan)))
        1. kalibr
          23 November 2019 21: 52 New
          +1
          Thanks in advance!
    3. Undecim
      Undecim 23 November 2019 20: 16 New
      +2

      If the picture is similar to this, then the shooters are cuirassiers.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 23 November 2019 22: 34 New
        +2
        No, I distinguish cuirassiers laughing
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 23 November 2019 23: 15 New
          +1
          On this subject, Sebastian Wranks liked to draw.

          Битва Lekkerbeetje, 1600 год. Встречается название "последняя рыцарская дуэль Европы".
          It is evident that the knights also use pistols.
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 24 November 2019 14: 12 New
            +2
            Very nice picture, thanks!
            период пограничная веков - важный для развития вооружения, интересно, что разрядные книги XVI в., описывает нам русского "дворянина", часто вооруженного стрелковым оружием, надо полагать, что "рыцари" в Европе тоже активно использовали пистолеты. В Испании картину видел аналогичную, о которой писал здесь, рыцари в вооружении как раз XVI в., не XVII в. стреляют друг в друга с пистолетов.
            Немного нет времени порыться в собственных "архивах", можно наверное найти изображения и на гобеленах из Венского музея искусств, например, ну как то так. hi
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 09: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: Phil77
    Dear Author, good morning! Vyacheslav Olegovich, a little asked about the count’s biography and it turned out that he was not noticed in serious alterations. And nevertheless, is there a dent on the cuirass, a mystery?

    Вот видите, как полезно читать статьи на ВО -ха-ха. Да, я лично не знаю откуда эта вмятина. На картине Леонардо "Дама с горностаем" есть след от сапога. Известно что когда немцвы граьили Краков на нее наступил солдат... А что тут было?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 23 November 2019 09: 37 New
      +2
      It remains to be attributed to * everyday life *. No.German soldier. For a woman (even a picture!) - with a boot! After what these * superhumans * worked with us, I’m not surprised! But I learned about this from you, thank you!
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 09: 37 New
    +4
    Quote: Andrey Sukharev
    Dear Caliber, do not consider it as arrogance, but the sum of the terms in this case does not give 25 ...

    Да, согласен. Это всегда так бывает, когда... переписываешь известных авторов и... боишься на шаг отступить в сторону. Они-то ведь тоже где-то это брали? И надеешься, что "брали хорошо". Но вот видите что бывает. И я могу указать Вам источник и страницу, но... что толку?
    1. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 23 November 2019 12: 20 New
      +4
      I got the impression that the twenty was made up of two dozen, and the five went last.
      But the phrase is really clumsy.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 23 November 2019 09: 39 New
    +5
    Trace from a bullet in a prominent place, most likely

    ,, the track is not alone recourse
  • bubalik
    bubalik 23 November 2019 09: 48 New
    +5
    ,,я то думал что в "звёздных войнах" шлемы с фашистских касок копировали what but it turned out that everything is deeper and more ancient bully
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      Edward Vashchenko 23 November 2019 10: 23 New
      +6
      Yes, sometimes you look at helmets and you are amazed, at least at the front, at least at the tournament.
      This helmet mesmerized me when I saw it in the museum.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 23 November 2019 11: 31 New
      +4
      So Emperor Maximilian really loved the salads, and after him the German knights, even when the neighbors - the British and the French - were already using the arme
  • Undecim
    Undecim 23 November 2019 11: 02 New
    +4
    Wheel pistol: a weapon that created a new type of troops in Europe - the cavalry of pistols. Pistols made for noble people got off very richly.

    Double-barrel pistol with wheel locks. Made by German gunsmith Peter Peck for Charles V of Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor, a great lover of firearms, in 1540. Metropolitan Museum of Art.
    The gun weighs 2,5 kg, length - 500 mm, caliber - 12 mm.
    Made from cherry wood, inlaid with ivory and fern wood. Artistic decoration was performed by another German gunsmith - Ambrosius Gemlich.
    This gun is one of the oldest surviving to our time.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 23 November 2019 11: 12 New
      +3

      Artistic decoration of the gun.
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 23 November 2019 11: 12 New
      +5

      Artistic decoration of the gun.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 23 November 2019 11: 50 New
        +6
        By the way, Charles V, like his paternal grandfather Maximilian I, loved weapons, patronized gunsmiths, was one of the first who appreciated the prospects of firearms.
        Он же зачинатель европейской "моды" на художественное огнестрельное оружие.
        The collection of his armor is also quite extensive, which presents the products of Seusenhofer, and Helmschmidt, and Negroles.

        This armor Colman Helmschmidt made for Charles V around 1525. It is called “KD” (Karolus Divus - “Divine Karl.”) The artistic decoration is attributed to Daniel Hopfer. Weight - 16,3 kg. Unfortunately, the armor was dismantled. The piece of armor shown in the photo is in the Royal Armory of Madrid. Leg protection is in Leeds and Florence, one of the plate gloves was found in the Czech Republic, the second has not yet been found.
        1. kalibr
          23 November 2019 21: 25 New
          +1
          Get to Madrid!
    3. Undecim
      Undecim 23 November 2019 14: 54 New
      +1

      Charles V Habsburg also owns the oldest surviving weapon with a wheel lock - a 1530 double-barreled pistol, made by the master Bartolomeo Marquoir the Elder from Ausburg.
  • asura
    asura 23 November 2019 11: 22 New
    +4
    They were slow and careful, maneuvered a lot and preferred negotiations and bribery to the cruelties of the “bad war”. Sometimes in battles there were not even wounded or there were only a few, and losing a mercenary for a condottier at the time was the same as today for Americans to lose an Abrams tank in some Iraq.


    Machiavelli in his book spoke well about all these grief condottieres:

    "Начали они с того, что, возвышая себя, повсеместно унизили пехоту. Это
    it was then necessary that, living a craft and having no possessions, they could not
    to feed a large foot army, but a small one would not create glory for them.

    Whereas, having limited themselves to cavalry, they, with a small number, secured for themselves both satiety and honor. It got to the point that in the twenty thousandth army not
    there were two thousand infantry.

    Subsequently, they showed extraordinary resourcefulness in order to save themselves and the soldiers from the dangers and hardships of military life: in skirmishes they do not kill each other, but they are taken prisoner and do not require ransom, they do not attack during a siege at night; defending the city, do not make outings to tents; do not surround the camp with a picket fence and a moat; they do not conduct campaigns in the winter.

    И все это дозволяется их военным уставом и придумано ими нарочно для того, чтобы, как сказано, избежать опасностей и тягот военной жизни: так они довели Италию до позора и рабства."

    Like that wink
    1. Slavutich
      Slavutich 23 November 2019 14: 05 New
      +1
      Excellent about condottieres!
  • sivuch
    sivuch 23 November 2019 11: 38 New
    +4
    True, the first mercenaries were not the Italians, but the Catalans, whose troops were willing to serve for a fee in Venice, and in Genoa, and in Constantinople. Nevertheless, in Italy, condottieres, that is, condotta commanders, appeared already in 1379, when Alberico di Barbiano formed his "Company of St. George"
    -----------------------------
    Probably, this applies only to Italy, since in Europe mercenaries - Brabansons and others, have existed since at least the 13th century. And in 1379 in neighboring France so many detachments of mercenaries, like a white detachment, were operating that they did not know how to get rid of them
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 23 November 2019 12: 13 New
    +2
    Their number, as we already know, was more than Italians. This European monarchs tried to compensate worst italians

    something is wrong...
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 23 November 2019 13: 53 New
    +5
    The whole history of chivalry is the story of frantic banditry. A knight is the most vile gangster you can imagine. Any meanness that a person can come up with was repeatedly used by chivalry, and at the same time it was always brought to such perfection in an abomination that you simply marvel at it.
    Т.н. "хорошая война" - одна из таких подлостей. Рыцари создали в Европе бандитский рай. Грабили, жгли, насиловали и убивали кого захотят, при этом вытрясая из окружающих все деньги, ценности и пищу, до каких только могли дотянуться. Одним из существеннейших способов поддержки такого положения и была "хорошая война".
    Мы все ее помним. 90тые годы, твоя "крыша" съездила на разборки с чужой, и о счастье! Ты вынужден будешь заплатить за "защиту" в этом случае почти наполовину меньше, чем первоначальная "претензия"! Конечно, надо будет еще кое что отслюнить "для братвы", люди ж пострадали! Кое кого даже убили...
    Правда, убили мало кого. Для того и доспехи. Погремело рыцарство мечами, потыкало предусмотрительно затупленными копьями, кто то кого то взял в плен, теперь надо выкупать доспехи, выкупать рыцаря, платить победителю, и т.д., и т.п. Платят, как обычно, "защищаемые".
    So yes, it was necessary for the cities, which were tormented by all this knightly gallant happiness, to hire mercenaries, to give them (for rent, or just for war., Won back - give back!) The armor and send it into the field, in attempts to somehow tame permanent robbery. I respect the Swiss. The guys did not stand on ceremony with trash. Well, the Germans always loved the fight more. More than money.) But the merry Italians just got involved in the robbery system! What a fine fellow, right ...
    И особняком стоят скушно нахмуренные русские. Которые, мягко скажем, не одобряют веселье. У них, конечно, попадаются и свои "рыцари", но общественной поддержкой не пользуются, царской властью преследуются... Никакой галантерейности)! Дикари, дикари...
    1. Slavutich
      Slavutich 23 November 2019 14: 06 New
      0
      This can be said about any security officials (
      which is probably not quite true
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 24 November 2019 13: 38 New
        0
        No you can not.
    2. Elturisto
      Elturisto 23 November 2019 14: 47 New
      +1
      Интересный коментарий.К "рыцарским манером" еще можно присовокупить клятвопреступление и убийство на переговорах-Уот тайлер,жакерия,крестьянская война в Германии.На счет манер русских рыцарей-было то тоже самое-Мстислав Удалой бросил своих на Калке,Великие князья почемуто постоянно собирали войска где на севере в лесах...ну и так далее...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 23 November 2019 15: 10 New
        +3
        It’s good to look at legends from afar. Like in the sun.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 24 November 2019 13: 37 New
        0
        Покурите тему "галантная поэзия". Там хорошо видно, как эта погань была перекрашена в цвета чудес. При этом в Европе, естественно, всей этой рекламе и на волос никто не верил, и только наивные русские...
  • tanit
    tanit 23 November 2019 14: 10 New
    +1
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, what about Zolotarevka? Is there really nothing new yet?
  • Albatroz
    Albatroz 23 November 2019 14: 15 New
    +4
    As I understand it, it is necessary to distinguish not only tournament and combat, but also ceremonial and combat armor.
    “A pistol can penetrate defensive weapons, but a spear cannot. It’s a miracle if someone is killed with a spear. ”
    For a knight in all ages, it was probably more important than killing to simply disable? And the spear was intended primarily to knock out of the saddle, immobilize?
    Killing is optional, especially since a ransom for a knight has always been very attractive
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 23 November 2019 17: 26 New
      0
      I think we should pay attention to the original spelling.
      If it was a spear, then this should not be surprising.
      The spear is not a peak, the foot soldier is not a rider.
      1. Albatroz
        Albatroz 25 November 2019 17: 15 New
        +1
        Why mix, do not tell?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 23 November 2019 14: 18 New
    +3
    Armor with a forerunner ... Most likely it was a spearman's equipment.
    Скорее всего, это снаряжение жандарма Карла VII, так что "заряжать" еще не настало время.
    We read at Pal Palych Winkler, who has no reason to distrust.
  • Hunghuz
    Hunghuz 23 November 2019 14: 23 New
    +2
    Thank you for the article!!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 23 November 2019 14: 41 New
    +2
    Moreover, it is believed that the same wheel lock for a pistol was invented by Leonardo da Vinci somewhere around 1480 - 1485th.
    Тут у историков имеется два "лагеря". Одна половина этого лагеря отдает приоритет Леонардо да Винчи и в качестве доказательства приводит рисунок из "Атлантического кодекса", который датируются от 1478 до 1519 года.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 23 November 2019 14: 49 New
      +2
      However, the second half has no less compelling evidence in the form of a drawing from a book of German inventions (dated 1505) and a 1507 reference to the purchase of a wheel lock in Austria.
  • Elturisto
    Elturisto 23 November 2019 14: 42 New
    -1
    Yes, not bad at all. Thank you. I think the author will highlight the topic of changing armor from the 13th to the 17th century. It would be interesting.
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 14: 55 New
    +2
    Quote: Albatroz
    Killing is optional, especially since a ransom for a knight has always been very attractive

    Рыцаря - да! Но как раз у указанное время многие "рыцари" уже были "не рыцари". С ними-то чего возиться? Шлепнул и баста!
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 15: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: tanit
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, what about Zolotarevka? Is there really nothing new yet?

    Тут так. Копают там каждое лето. Но главный "копатель" теперь директор института в университете и забот прибавилось. А я теперь рядом с ним не работаю и новостей не знаю. Ехать туда сейчас поздно - осень и надо договариваться с музеем. То есть придется подождать до лета. Проект постройки там исторического центра к которому и мои студенты руку приложили, пока законсервирован. Такие вот новости.
    1. tanit
      tanit 23 November 2019 17: 05 New
      +1
      That is, is there a chance that it will be?)))
      1. kalibr
        23 November 2019 17: 13 New
        +1
        I’ll definitely go there. Most interesting. But now what kind of charm is hanging around the frozen forest and watching where new holes have been dug up? The pit is also a pit in Africa. Findings are all in the museum, processed and ... it’s also not interesting to look at them just like that, rusty pieces of iron ... But ... there will be. In the spring, how grass will climb ... will be.
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 15: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    worst italians

    something is wrong...

    BEST
  • SERGEY SERGEEVICS
    SERGEY SERGEEVICS 23 November 2019 15: 55 New
    +1
    The constant wars of Italy, they affected the weapons industry and the weapons culture of this country. The Italians always knew how to make and produce good weapons, and now they are doing pretty well.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 23 November 2019 17: 48 New
    +4
    Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    Откомментирую третью иллюстрацию. Если приглядеться, можно увидеть, что предличник "сложносочиненной" конструкции, состоящей из двух деталей. Причем верхняя сделана откидной в левую сторону. Таким образом, ничто не мешало владельцу доспеха использовать "огнестрел" "в полный рост".
  • kalibr
    23 November 2019 21: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
    I will send a scan)))

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Liam
    Liam 23 November 2019 22: 31 New
    +2
    in Italy, condottieres, that is, condotta commanders, appeared already in 1379, when Alberico di Barbiano formed his "Company of St. George."

    The condottiers in Italy appeared as early as 1337.The company Di Di Barbiano was not the first in absolute terms, but simply the first company consisting exclusively of Italians. And so it was the third company with the same name in chronological order. These companies or units were called Compagnia di ventura. And Condotta is simply the name of a military contract between a condottiere (or capitano di ventura) and those who hired his services.
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 24 November 2019 03: 20 New
    +1
    Their number, as we already know, was greater than that of Italians.

    God is on the side of the big battalions, panimash!
  • Ezekiel 25-17
    Ezekiel 25-17 24 November 2019 09: 51 New
    +1
    Good job.
  • Kirill Solodchenko
    Kirill Solodchenko 24 November 2019 15: 46 New
    0
    Dear author, didn’t the creation of Ordonance companies in Burundi have any other preconditions? If we are talking about the Swiss and the Germans, then this is the end of the 15th - the middle of the 16th century, and the Ordonance companies of the same Burgundy are at least the middle of the 15th century.
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2019 18: 05 New
      +1
      But isn’t it written in the article when what was created?
  • joker
    joker 25 November 2019 03: 19 New
    +2
    a simple sword is tipped back, after which a file is taken into hand.
    Nothing mysterious. Everything is very simple, and there is no need to invent legends
  • NF68
    NF68 26 November 2019 20: 40 New
    +1
    Chic products. And after all, everything was done almost by hand.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 4 December 2019 13: 59 New
    0
    The most interesting, however, is that from the very beginning, Italian confectioners tried to wage a “good war” as opposed to the “bad war” waged by the Germans and Swiss. Those prisoners were not taken (especially the Swiss, who simply slaughtered them like cattle!), Burned cities and villages, that is, they behaved like real barbarians. Italian condottiers didn’t do that. Since they recruited their troops with their own money, they resorted to war as such only as a last resort, and as far as possible they did without shots. They were slow and careful, maneuvered a lot and preferred negotiations and bribery to the cruelties of the “bad war”. Sometimes in battles there were not even wounded or there were only a few, and losing a mercenary for a condottier at the time was the same as today for Americans to lose an Abrams tank in some Iraq.

    Interesting statement!
    But what about the massacre in February 1377 in Cesena, in Romagna, where about 5000 people may have said goodbye to their lives?
    It is clear that the condottiers were opposed not by such proffes, but by ordinary citizens!
    By order of Cardinal Robert of Geneva - the Avignon antilepa Clement VII - the "White Detachment" burst into the city, closed the gates and killed almost all the inhabitants, including children. One of the chronicles reads: “They burned and slaughtered the whole city. The river was stained with blood. ” This massacre brought the “anti-dad Clement” the nicknames “butcher” and “Cesan executioner”.
    But Hawkwood’s reputation wasn’t affected. On the contrary: Italian cities have vied to offer him money. He chose Florence, which offered him 250 florins a year. He remained faithful to this city until his death.

    Вот такие они были благородные и "мохнатые". Эти кондотьеры!
    The famous condottiere Braccio Montone was amused by the fact that he threw people from high towers, broke the heads of nineteen monks on the anvil of one monastery, threw three people off the rampart in Assisi, and pushed a messenger from the bridge that brought him bad news. Do you think he was hated for all these atrocities? Not at all! “He was beautiful as a god when he pranced through the streets of Florence,” said one contemporary.

    It was the fault of the flood in Rome in the summer of 1422!
    But heaven is not worth angry - they sometimes repay a hundredfold!
    Killed de Montone at the age of 55 in battle: the injured were left to choke under a horse that had fallen on him. At the insistence of his father who hated him, he was buried in an unholy land.
  • Ivan Montgomery
    Ivan Montgomery 12 December 2019 01: 53 New
    0
    Что характерно, для описания итальянского "копья" автор почему-то использовал французские термины (что выдает, мягко говоря, вторичность даже не источника, а используемого материала). Насколько мне известно, итальянская squadra (четверть от чего-то, в нашем случае от 100, т.е. "25") состояла из squadriere (командира отряда) и 3 или 4 капральств. Нам на помощь приходит изящество арифметики. Либо 3 капральства по 8 (как правило), либо 4 по 6 (во главе капральства caporale). Итого получаем 24 "копья" из 3-4 капральств + 1 командирское (squadriere). Но 6-ные "копья" - не про итальянцев. Они даже lance spezzate ("сломанные копья" собирали в капральства по 8, назначали командиров, "винтовку в зубы и на фронт!").
  • Ivan Montgomery
    Ivan Montgomery 12 December 2019 02: 17 New
    0
    Honestly, when you look at the organizational mutations of the Burgundian ordinance (from there the legs grow in the article), the modern person is completely incomprehensible to the logic of creating all these uneven curves of organizational structures. Even with the understanding that the administrative design of the Burgundian ordinance almost did not at all coincide with tactical units (maximum at the mouth level), one cannot but rejoice that the Swiss and Louis XI stopped these creative sobs for several years, bringing happiness to modern historical scholars. Thanks to the trophies, we now all know about the banners and costume of the Burgundy army. (This cannot be said of the unfortunate winners who disappeared in the darkness of history).
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Darkesstcat
    Darkesstcat 29 December 2019 22: 27 New
    0
    Can someone ask a question about armor?
    1. agond
      agond 4 January 2020 23: 58 New
      0
      It is interesting that if an ancient Roman pilum is thrown into ordinary non-tournament knight armor of the 16th century, (a spear of 2 m with a tip of 1 m, total weight from 2 to 4 kg), it would be a hole when hit at right angles, the armor metal is not a helmet from the time of the Second World War only in the Middle Ages forgot about pilum