Military Review

Ordonance companies

64
Ordonance companies

Latniki infantrymen of the XVI century. from Ambras Castle, Austria. Obviously, this Hundred Years War so decisively advanced the military art and skill of gunsmiths. Already a hundred years after its completion, not only cavalry, but also infantry acquired massive quantities of armor


The cavalry rushes, the sword sparkles and the spears glisten.
Book of the Prophet Nahum 3: 3


Military affairs at the turn of the eras. The Chinese have a good saying, or rather, a wish to those whom they do not like: “So that you live in times of change!” And in fact, what could be worse? The old is collapsing, although the new is being created, but whether it is good or bad, is not yet understood. Everything seems to be gone. How to live further? In a word, one continuous stress. So it is, it will be so and it was so. At “VO” there was a whole series of articles devoted to the knightly armor of the era of their sunset, 1500 — 1700, but many asked, how then did they fight in these new armor? That is, how did the tactics of the troops of the new time influence the changes in the equipment of the soldiers, and the equipment affected, accordingly, their tactics? And since until now it was mainly a question of the armor itself, now it is time to talk about how the soldiers dressed in them fought each other at the turn of the Middle Ages and the New Age, that is, in times of change!

Ordonance companies of French kings


So, let's start with the source of change and the collapse of the old way of life. Such in Europe was the Hundred Years War. She showed the incapacity of the old knightly army and at the same time led to the mass ruin of the nobility. Poverty reduced the lords of arrogance and forced to engage in the service of the king, who became the bearer of all blessings. Already Charles VII replaced the chivalrous militia with ordonance companies: “large ordonent companies” (organized in 1439), in which a rider in full knight armament and five of his assistants was paid 31 livres per month, and “small ordonance companies” (created in 1449 g .), or “companies of small salaries”, where the “waste” of large companies fell.


Charles VII Winner. Portrait of a brush by Jean Fouquet (Louvre Museum, Paris)

All in all, the king had 15 company of the “Big Ordinance”, each of which included 100 horsemen in full armor and 500 in lighter ones, including one hundred pages, then three hundred archers and one hundred cutillery foot soldiers with a cutile sword and a spear with a hook. However, he only fought on foot, just like archers, and the whole company moved exclusively on horses, and the same cutier had two horses. Gendarme - the “spear” commander had four horses, paid by the state. The page was content with one, but the shooter, like the cutlery, had two. In total, there were 900 horses in the company, the care of which was assigned to the horsemen, blacksmiths and other hired people, also fed from the royal cauldron.


Armor of Archduke Charles II, son of Ferdinand I, Habsburg, Austria (1540 - 1590) Master: Anton Peffenhauser (c. 1525 - 1603), Augsburg 1563 Typical knightly armor for a horseman armed with a spear (Vienna armory Ward. Hall VII)

The knights of the ordonance companies (and the gendarme riders wore full royal armament at this time) from the former knighthood were distinguished primarily by discipline. No feudal willfulness was allowed to them. On the battlefield they acted in a cohesive mass, they were supported by archers and a coutille. Moreover, at different times the number of riders in the "spear" could change. In the mouths of King Louis XII, who fought with the Landsknechts of Emperor Maximilian I, for example, there were seven at first, and then eight in 1513. Henry II had the number of "spears" and six, and eight people, and sometimes 10-12. However, in general, the number of “royal armor” was small. Although the same Charles IX had 65 in his 2590 companies, only four of them had 100 people as expected, while others had significantly fewer. The riders respectfully called the "master", thereby emphasizing that they are masters of their craft. However, gradually the quality of the preparation of the latin gendarmes continuously decreased. But in the end, in 1600, they were completely disbanded.


Another horseman armor, which, judging by the finish, could well be ceremonial, and at the same time combat, Cornelio Bentivoglio (1519 / 1520 - 1585), made around 1540 by a craftsman from Milan Antonio Romero (Vienna Armory)

The reason for this change is not at all that the kings became poorer and could not contain such a horde of hospitable riders, but for a very simple reason. The main weapon of the gendarmes was a spear. And in order to masterfully master them, daily training was required, and therefore more forage for horses. But their effectiveness fell from year to year due to improved means of attack and defense, and ... who could have thought of paying money to troops that had ceased to meet their purpose ?!


But this armor of lance support (“hook”) does not have. Which means it could very well be used by the commander of the pistol-guns (Vienna Armory)


Typical three-quarters armor, that is, only to the knees, belonged to the lieutenant general, Count Adolf von Schwarzenberg (1547 - 1600). Made around 1590 in Milan by the master Pompeo della Cesa. You should pay attention to the exceptional quality of work - iron etching, combined with gilding and blackening. Lining: leather, silk, velvet (Vienna Armory, Hall VII)

To reduce the cost of the army, the same Louis XI most decisively expelled all luxury from it, prohibiting the wearing of velvet and silk clothes. True, Louis XII brought fashion to the lush plumes of feathers, which Francis I decided to shorten somewhat. The gendarme horses in a combat situation no longer wore armor (for example, in 1534 a special decree was issued prohibiting the wearing of a shuffron), although it was preserved for parades.


Louis XI with the chain of the Order of St. Michael. Portrait of an unknown artist approx. 1470 d. Numerous copies of this portrait are in museums in Vienna, Paris, New York


Ordonance companies of Karl the Bold


The dukes of Burgundy have been the original, so to speak, enemies of the French kings ever since they fought against them side by side with the British in the Hundred Years War. And naturally, they all did the opposite of what their opponents did even when they borrowed their undertakings. And it is not surprising that Karl the Brave in 1470 also created Ordonance companies. Initially, the "company" included 1000 riders and 250 personnel. But the connection seemed too cumbersome and in the 1473 year the company began to include one hundred “spears”, and each “spear” consisted of one rider in full knightly armament, one servant, one cutier, three shooters and three more foot soldiers.


Portrait of Karl the Bold brush of Rubens. (1618) (Museum stories Arts, Vienna)

All the difference was in the names. In Burgundy, the company was called the "gang", and the commander of the "spear" was not a master, but an Italian condottiere. The company consisted of four “squadrons”, each of which had four “chambers”. The strength of the “chamber” is six horsemen, one of whom was its commander. Arrows (300 pers.) Went separately from the riders, as did the 300 infantry. Both those and others were divided into hundreds, led by centenaries "centners", and those in turn into three "thirty", which were commanded by the "thirties" - "tranny". However, in addition to these indicated soldiers who served for salaries under the contract, volunteers who were hired to serve without salaries were also assigned to the “gang”. Therefore, the exact number of Burgundian troops is usually impossible to calculate.


Rider Armor approx. 1555 g., Owned by Andreas Teufel (1522 —1592) and Freicherr von Guntersdorf, captain of the imperial regiment. The armor consists of a bourguignot helmet with hard-fixed headphones connected to the cheek pieces and a movable nose plate. The breastplate has holes for a spear hook. In the 1581 inventory of the year of the Ambras castle, it is described as follows: “Black armor, with a rib on his chest and a crucifix on one side, and a man standing on his knees in front of him.” Andreas Teufel accompanied Archduke Ferdinand II in his 1556 campaign in Hungary. He was a little older than the Archduke and belonged to his inner circle. With the wife of Andreas Toifel, Marianne, the wife of Ferdinand II maintained friendly relations. The armor, which apparently was donated by the emperor to her husband, is a typical armor of the "equestrian shooter" armed with pistols. It differs from the old armor in the absence of legplates and chain mail on the sleeves. As a result of reducing the weight of the armor, the mobility of their owner increased, which was the Europeans' response to the high mobility of the Ottoman cavalry. The motif of the engraving with gilding on the chest of the armor, depicting a knight kneeling in front of the cross, comes from the famous drawing of the Saxon court painter Lucas Cranach the Elder and was often used as decoration of armor. Master Kunz Lochner from Nuremberg. Technology - blackening and gilding (Ambras Castle Museum, Innsbruck, Tyrol)

But outwardly the “gangs” of the Burgundians and the royal companies of the French kings differed very much. They were allowed to dress in the fashion of those years in pleated skirts made of velor, woven with gold satin and gold brocade, and on top of their armor they wore satin cloaks and silk caftans. Ostrich feathers on helmets? No one even discussed it, it was such a routine! Karl the Bold himself flaunted in a golden chain mail, a belt adorned with precious stones, and a fur coat on sables covered with golden brocade. In it, by the way, he died, killed by some miserable Swiss infantryman in a scanty harsh way! It is clear that the French riders, either entirely chained in metal, or who admitted in clothes only variations of gray and black cloth, supplemented with a white canvas, could cause only contempt among the Burgundians. So, by the way, it was not the Calvinist reformists from Geneva, the French Huguenot Protestants, or the English Puritans who brought fashion to dress as easily as possible in Europe. An example to all of them was shown by the king of France Louis XI himself!


Maximilian I in the Imperial Regalia. Portrait of a brush by Bernhard Strigel (1460 – 1528), painted after 1508 (Tyrolean State Museum). (Photo courtesy of the Administration of the Metropolitan Museum from the exposition of the exhibition “The Last Knight”)

Ordonance companies of Emperor Maximilian I


From the material “The Last Knight”, readers of “VO” should remember that having married Maria Burgundian in 1477, the young Maximilian (then he was not yet the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation, but only an Archduke of Austria) received a wonderful dowry, but at the same time a severe headache, because his new subjects wanted to live according to the old feudal laws, but did not feel the winds of change. Maximilian did this: he didn’t dissolve the “gangs,” but he greatly reduced their numbers and more ... he never collected or used in the war. In the “gang” that remained for the entire duchy there were only 50 horsemen, fifty horse and foot archers each, that is, there would have been no role in which case. But no one was offended - officially all these people were in the service and even received something from this!


Carl V. Portrait of a brush by Titian. (Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna).


Charles V in the 1522 year, the number of ordonance cavalry established in the amount of eight companies for 50 horsemen-riders and 100 shooters in each. The “Spear” of the 1547 of the year consisted of five equestrian warriors - a rider-armor, his page, a cutler and two shooters. That is, the size of the company now reached 50 people, while there were still a captain, lieutenant, standard-bearer, captain shooters, several trumpeters and chaplain. The divisions invented by Karl Bold survived. The infantry, although it was attached to the "gangs", moved separately in the campaign and had its own commanders.

Field Armor of Emperor Ferdinand I (1503 - 1564). Made approx. 1537 g. Master: Jörg Seusenhofer (1528 - 1580 gg., Innsbruck). (Vienna Armory, Hall III) Sultans with feathers served not only for decoration, just like scarves over their shoulders they indicated the rank of commander.

Latniki wore clothing over their armor. First of all, it was a fluffy pleated skirt or a caftan with a skirt and sleeves in close-fitting. "Archers" were only called archers. In fact, they wore arquebuses and pistols, but they had weapons of demi-lancez (half-copies) - cuirass, helmet and plate gloves. Hands could be protected by chain mail. Ordonance companies fought from 1439 to 1700, and during this time they experienced complete rearmament from a spear to an arquebus and a pistol!


Archduke Maximilian III's Plate Glove (1558 - 1618). Made about 1571 year. Master: Anton Peffenhauser (1525 - 1603, Augsburg). (Vienna Armory)


However, the Ordonance companies also had a predecessor, though regional, known in Italy and abroad as a condotta. But about Condotta and everything that was connected with her, we will tell you next time.

PS The author and site administration express their heartfelt gratitude to the curators of the Vienna Armory Ilse Jung and Florian Kugler for the opportunity to use her photographs.

To be continued ...
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  1. Flooding
    Flooding 17 November 2019 06: 59 New
    +4
    Dear Vyacheslav, thank you. Informative.
    But from the very beginning, he began to stumble.
    In total, the king had 15 companies of the “Big Ordinance”, each of which included 100 horsemen in full armor and 500 in lighter, including one hundred pages, then three hundred archers and one hundred cutillery foot soldiers with a sword and a spear with a hook. However, he only fought on foot, just like archers, but the whole company moved exclusively on horseback, and the same cutier had two horses. Gendarme - the “spear” commander had four horses, paid by the state. The page was content with one, but the shooter, like the cutlery, had two. In total, there were 900 horses in the company, care of which was assigned to the horsemen, blacksmiths and other hired people, also fed from the royal cauldron.

    Кто "он" лишь сражался пешим?
    How can there be 900 horses in a company, if only there are 100 gendarmes in it with four hundred horses?
    Well and further on in the text.
    1. kalibr
      17 November 2019 07: 16 New
      +5
      The regiment, of course, had 900 including convoys. And on foot, the cutiers and archers fought, and rode on horses.
    2. Errr
      Errr 17 November 2019 08: 40 New
      +2
      "Он" в данном случае - кутилье. А в видео ниже та самая кутиль, которой эти самые кутилье были вооружены. С таким клинком на коне не очень-то навоюешь.)
    3. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 17 November 2019 11: 58 New
      +6
      Ну вот зачем вы так? Разумеется, изучение абзаца о конном вооружении ордонансной роты дает минимально 600 лошадей транспортировочных для пажей, латников и кутилье, и еще 400 для всадников-латников. Плюс еще ж обозные, включая тех, кто везет серьезные запасы зерна и сена для всей этой конной лавы! В целом минимально 2000 лошадок. Но вы должны ж понимать! Вам излагает "истину" историк!
      Историки не умеют считать даже на уровне 2 класса средней школы. Да, для любого другого так сказать вида людей такой уровень интеллекта закрыл бы все пути, кроме работы сторожа. Но это же историки! Они храбро присваивают себе "научные" звания, не умея даже сложить 3+2. Вся их интеллектуальная продукция того же уровня...
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 17 November 2019 16: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: Mikhail3
        Historians cannot count even at the 2 level of a high school class

        Ну, вас-то, судя по всему, считать учили именно "историки". Правда, дальше, как видно, у них дело не пошло и учить они вас отказались. Так остались вы сиротой с математическими способностями "историка", и общим развитием пэтэушника. Иначе те "минимально 2000 лошадок", которые вы с такой уверенностью тут вывели, объяснить невозможно.
        Well, let's try to count.
        Стандартная численность копья ордонансовой роты - шесть человек: командир, кутилье, три стрелка и паж. Иногда пишут, что стрелков было меньше и их могли заменять мечники, но общее число воинов почти во всех источниках указывается именно в 6 человек. Каждому по "лошадке", получается шесть лошадок. Далее, автор пишет, что у стрелков и кутилье было по две лошадки. Прибавляем еще четыре получается десять. Плюс три запасные лошадки для командира, в итоге имеем тринадцать лошадок на копье, согласно сведениям автора. Сто копий в роте - 1300 лошадей. Я пока ничего не напутал?
        Откуда же взялись у нас еще минимум 700 лошадок, чтобы в итоге получились "минимум 2000 лошадок"?
        But from where:
        Quote: Mikhail3
        Plus train carts, including those who carry serious reserves of grain and hay for all this horse lava!

        Вот и возникает вопрос - вас-то, математик вы наш великий, кто считать учил? Если вы сумеете мне объяснить откуда взялись эти "обозные" и почему их не может быть, например, шестьсот, а обязательно должно быть не менее семисот, я, может быть несколько изменю свое мнение о ваших математических способностях в лучшую сторону. А заодно попытайтесь тогда мне объяснить зачем командиру копья столько лошадей (аж три лишних!), если весь груз за ним везут обозные на этих самых не менее 7 лошадок, которые вы так смело "причислили" к его копью в дополнение к тем, что уже в нем имеются.
        wassat
        In fact, in the literature I met exactly the number in 900 of the horse’s head per company, at the rate of nine horses per spear. Six horses for transporting personnel, one horse - a battle one for a knight (he only fought in an equestrian stand), and the last two carry all the necessary belongings in a cart.
        Я не знаком, с теми источниками, на которые автор опирается, описывая укомплектованность конским составом стандартного копья ордонансовой роты. Но вам настоятельно рекомендую, прежде чем выступать здесь со своими "математическими" разоблачениями на основе "здравого смысла уровня среднего школьного возраста", хотя бы немного поинтересоваться темой, чтобы было что сказать по существу. А лучше, конечно, по моему скромному мнению, вам было бы не выступать вообще, а больше читать и слушать. Не многие люди нуждаются в этом больше, чем вы.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 17 November 2019 16: 39 New
          +1
          The namesake, you illustrate my post so cool, even tears from the eyes, snot from the nose!))
          All in all, the king had 15 company of the “Big Ordinance”, each of which included 100 horsemen in full armor and 500 in lighter ones, including one hundred pages, then three hundred archers and one hundred cutillery foot soldiers with a cutile sword and a spear with a hook. However, he only fought on foot, just like archers, and the whole company moved exclusively on horses, and the same cutier had two horses. Gendarme - the “spear” commander had four horses, paid by the state. The page was content with one, but the shooter, like the cutlery, had two. In total, there were 900 horses in the company, the care of which was assigned to the horsemen, blacksmiths and other hired people, also fed from the royal cauldron.

          Вот это - из статьи. Вы можете бредить по своему, всякий историк свою чуму произвольную каждый раз по новой из пальца высасывает, мы в курсе, но я то пишу о статье, по материалу статьи! Сделайте усилие над собой, возьмите в руки калькулятор, и посчитайте! А вы вместо этого привычное - не сошлись цифры в статье, которую вы защищаете, возьмем другие, только что придуманные, или взятые в другом "источнике".
          In the article in the paragraph, there are already a thousand horses! Then, the standards for providing cavalry forage are taken. By weight. Wagons necessary for the transport of this weight are considered. The number of horses needed in the cart is considered. Horses are added to these carts) Add forage again! Hehe ... Then we consider how many grooms, shod, repairmen need. We add the carts needed for their transportation, as well as for the transport of food and other supplies for all these people. Again, increase the number of horses, and forage!)) How did the case for a half thousand, count I was too lazy. I don’t have to do this, I’m not writing an article with this pathetic nonsense. And so it is obvious - crap and stupidity, well, as usual.
          And then you came out in defense ... you didn’t even count, what is there in the article heaped up? Do you really want to be taken seriously ?!
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 17 November 2019 19: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: Mikhail3
            In the article in the paragraph, there are already a thousand horses!

            1300. What Michael said above.

            Quote: Mikhail3
            Then, the standards for providing cavalry forage are taken. By weight. Wagons necessary for the transport of this weight are considered. The number of horses needed in the cart is considered. Horses are added to these carts) Add forage again! Hehe ... Then we consider how many grooms, shod, repairmen need. We add the carts needed for their transportation, as well as for transporting food and other supplies for all these people. Again, increase the number of horses, and forage!))

            You still whores forgot to include and count the carts for their transportation, the horses that will pull them, the feed for the whores, the feed for the horses, the carts for the feed ...
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 November 2019 20: 30 New
              +4
              "А девки площадные, нехай пешком шлепают. К бургундцам!" КарлVII (из не опубликованного) laughing
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 17 November 2019 19: 13 New
            +2
            Вот я и говорю, что вы ведете подсчеты как... те кого вы критикуете. Тут, накинули, тут набросили, там еще добавили получилось "не менее 2000", как-то уж больно, выражаясь вашими терминами, "по исторически". Для того, чтобы так высказываться много ума не надо, да, в общем-то его вообще не надо, как, собственно и каких-либо знаний по предмету статьи.
            Если коротко, то ваше сообщение можно выразить одной фразой: "исходя из того, что простой математический подсчет лошадей в статье дает иной результат, чем пишет автор, я делаю вывод, что все историки - слабоумные".
            Well, well, that gives me the right to draw my own conclusion both about your mental abilities and about the level of education. No more.
            The good news is that you show rare stability in this regard and, having read your next message, I am once again convinced that my initial assessment of your potential was not wrong.
  2. tlauicol
    tlauicol 17 November 2019 07: 19 New
    +4
    battle armor also with spear hooks.
    is the Hattamelate armor combat or tournament? https://topwar.ru/162956-oruzhejnaja-palata-venecianskogo-dvorca-dozhej.html
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2019 09: 44 New
      +4
      My respect, Ivan! The fact is that only about combat armor can we definitely say that it is such. A sign of this is the absence on the cuirass of holes for attaching a spear hook and tarch. The cuirass itself, being a universal part, could be used in various modifications of the armor set. In the case of Gattamelata, a tournament option is presented.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 17 November 2019 10: 14 New
        +3
        Good afternoon. Above there are a number of photographs, including a cuirass with a hole for a hook - obviously not a tournament armor. It turns out a hook under the spear and was used in battle
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 November 2019 10: 34 New
          +1
          Breastplate - the only detail used in any armor set. Naturally, they tried to unify it as much as possible. The lance hook was dismantled in combat use.
        2. kalibr
          17 November 2019 11: 41 New
          +5
          Of course, it was applied, this is not a tournament detail at all !!!
      2. Hantengri
        Hantengri 17 November 2019 12: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        The fact is that only about combat armor can we definitely say that it is such. A sign of this is the absence on the cuirass of holes for attaching a spear hook and tarch.

        welcome Anton! hi Копейный крюк в боевом доспехе применялся регулярно. Т.к. эта маленькая деталь, в комбинации со стопорным кольцом на копье, очень сильно увеличивала импульс, передаваемый сисемой конь-всадник-копье бедолаге, который под этот "танк" подвернуся и => поражающую мощь" танка". Глупо было бы не использовать в бою такой полезный девайс.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 November 2019 12: 16 New
          +1
          Igor! hi
          1. Why then make it dismantled?
          2. In no illustration accompanying this series of articles have I seen this stray on the armor of purely combat use
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 17 November 2019 12: 23 New
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            1. Why then make it dismantled?

            Possible to increase maintainability and hook and cuirass. Then, what if the bosses orders to fight on foot? With a hook is uncomfortable.
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            2. In no illustration accompanying this series of articles have I seen this stray on the armor of purely combat use

            This is to Vyacheslav Olegovich ... wink
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 November 2019 12: 31 New
              +2
              Quote: HanTengri
              on foot

              And if such a need arises during the current battle? Still, the cuirass is not a Picatinny rail ...
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 17 November 2019 13: 01 New
                +3
                Then you have to endure! laughing Unexpected situations can not be avoided. But if it is known in advance that it will be necessary to walk, for example, to cover archers, so that they would not run away, then why not take it off, making it convenient for your beloved? In addition, you can always rearrange your favorite hook to another cuirass (if a hairy chest is already visible through the old one), again. )))
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 17 November 2019 13: 17 New
                  +1
                  With economy, just everything is clear, with ergonomics - not very. recourse request
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 17 November 2019 14: 10 New
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    With economy, just everything is clear, with ergonomics - not very. recourse request

                    if you look closely, you can see that many hooks are folding, articulated. Therefore, I believe that the armor of Gattamelath is combat. Not to tournaments he was. Born poor, got rich already in his advanced years
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 17 November 2019 14: 29 New
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      I believe that the armor of Gattamelath is combat

                      I can not dispute without seeing the bottom of the headset. My opinion: the armor was made as ceremonial, one can only guess about the combat use.
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 17 November 2019 14: 45 New
                        +2


                        here at full height
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 17 November 2019 14: 53 New
                        0
                        Yes, I agree, the combat use was intended. How valid it was can be understood by the date of manufacture of the armor and the biography of the owner.
  3. Blacksmith 55
    Blacksmith 55 17 November 2019 10: 19 New
    +7
    Thanks, very interesting .
    Looking only at the glove, it is already possible to understand how much labor has been invested in these armors. Well done old masters.
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 17 November 2019 11: 15 New
      +7
      Already someone zaminusovat. Dear readers (and minuvschiki), what is so bad I wrote? I am amazed.
      I suppose there are those who are minus for nothing.
      If you do not like my opinion, explain yourself and minus your health. I do not chase the pluses, but I can not understand the unreasonable minus either.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 17 November 2019 11: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: Blacksmith 55
        Dear readers (and minuvschiki), what is so bad I wrote?

        In this case, we just thanked the author, who has a large number of ill-wishers.
        1. Blacksmith 55
          Blacksmith 55 17 November 2019 11: 41 New
          +5
          Not only the author thanked for the interesting material, but also admired the old masters.
          Even with the modern development of technology, it is not so easy to create such miracles.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 17 November 2019 15: 27 New
        +7
        It is useless, Colleague, they minus because of their own inferiority and an innate inferiority complex. Talking to them is pointless. request
  • Dalton
    Dalton 17 November 2019 07: 31 New
    +2
    Always liked ordonance companies, (especially the Burgundy version).
    Thanks to the author for an interesting article!
    I always racked my brains - whether the battle of Pavia in 1525 triggered the decline of French companies ...
    1. igordok
      igordok 17 November 2019 09: 00 New
      +1
      I like the video from the clip.
  • Talgarets
    Talgarets 17 November 2019 09: 25 New
    +1
    Charles VII the Winner in the portrait has such a sour face ...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2019 13: 07 New
      +3
      Если всю жизнь думать о том "где-бы бабла отжать" рожа еще и не так скуксится! laughing
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 17 November 2019 14: 14 New
        +8
        Anton hi I looked, I looked at these armor and thought: it’s good that in our time it was only necessary to clean the badge on the belt laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 November 2019 14: 25 New
          +4
          Greetings, Sergey! To be honest, I was not up to the badge. Sometimes for several days I crawled out from under the ground only to reach the dining room.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 17 November 2019 15: 25 New
            +3
            I’m embarrassed to ask ... Didn’t they dig under the main stronghold of the imperialists? Silent glanders under the Pentagon? Joke. smile
            Hello Anton! hi
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 November 2019 15: 30 New
              +3
              "А он мужчина хоть куда!
              Он служил в ПВО!" (с)
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 17 November 2019 15: 37 New
                +4
                Yeah, got it. smile On which systems, Anton, is USAF Captain Francis Harry Powers named? drinks
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 17 November 2019 15: 42 New
                  +3
                  91-92gg. Kharkov Radio Engineering Brigade, 92-93gg. Murmansk Anti-aircraft Missile Regiment (S-200)
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 17 November 2019 15: 51 New
                    +2
                    (C-200)

                    Так ведь именно такой "Локхид" и сбили? Или я ошибаюсь, не силён в ПВО.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 17 November 2019 15: 55 New
                      +3
                      Нет, Пауэрса сбили С-75 "Десна"
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 17 November 2019 16: 34 New
                        +4
                        Ну, всё равно приятно. Я был на выставке, которую Контора организовала в парке "Культуры и Горького"))), очередь была побольше чем в мавзолей. Обломки, парашют, "Хай Стандарт" 22LR с глушаком, служебное удостоверение и маленький пузырёк с иголкой больше похожей на никелированный гвоздь, типа с ядом.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 17 November 2019 15: 23 New
          +4
          it was necessary to clean a badge on a belt


          Hello, Sergey! So it depends on what year of service. laughing soldier
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 17 November 2019 16: 25 New
            +6
            ,,, nevermind laughing a month later I changed this shine to green, protective, bully and after 3 months and until the end of the service in the belt hi
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 17 November 2019 16: 35 New
              +4
              "Как одену портупею..." (С). Ничего личного дружище, ты ж понимаешь. smile
  • Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 17 November 2019 09: 44 New
    +4
    Very informative,
    Thank you!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 November 2019 10: 16 New
    +1
    Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    in which a rider in full knightly armament and five of his assistants was paid 31 livres per month
    Не многовато будет? Может быть "в год"?
    1. kalibr
      17 November 2019 11: 39 New
      +2
      So at Funkens E. and F. I checked.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 17 November 2019 11: 49 New
        +2
        Очень интересно. Надо будет что-нибудь поискать по экономике Франции того периода. А то у меня полмиллиона ливров в год только на "большой ордонанс" (даже без учета лангедокских рот) как-то в голове не укладываются.
        1. kalibr
          17 November 2019 12: 36 New
          +2
          WITH MONTHLY PAYMENT IN 31 livery for one spear. The rider is fully armed and 5 of his subalterns. Statute 1439, I checked again.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 17 November 2019 12: 58 New
            +3
            I don’t argue. I don’t argue yet. I was wondering, where did the originally impoverished Charles VII come from, in particular, and the ruined France in general? Thank you for the next research vector on topics of interest to me!
            1. Liam
              Liam 17 November 2019 14: 11 New
              +1
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              I don’t argue. I don’t argue yet. I was wondering, where did the originally impoverished Charles VII come from, in particular, and the ruined France in general? Thank you for the next research vector on topics of interest to me!

              There is a lot of original data on the topic. French is true
              https://www.persee.fr/doc/jds_0021-8103_2001_num_1_1_1641
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 17 November 2019 14: 37 New
                +2
                Quote: Liam
                in french truth

                That's the whole point! There are many popular science materials in French, German, Italian and Spanish. And if I at least cope with English, then these studies are not available to me, alas!
                However, thanks for the link !!!
      2. Liam
        Liam 17 November 2019 14: 20 New
        +3
        L'abbé Le Grand et le compte du trésorier des guerres pour 1464 : les compagnies d'ordonnance à la veille du bien public

        Jean-François Lassalmonie
        Journal des Savants Année 2001 1 pp. 43-92
        Documents liés Référence bibliographique
  • kalibr
    17 November 2019 12: 33 New
    +4
    Quote: Mikhail3
    Они храбро присваивают себе "научные" звания, не умея даже сложить 3+2.

    В чем-то Вы, безусловно, правы Михаил. И прежде всего в том, что мы действительно "присваиваем" знания друг у друга. Но... при этом я, например, доверяю авторитетам и всегда могу указать источник информации. Если есть неточности в нем, то... они, да переходят в другие места. Проверять? Да, по идее надо проверять, но зачастую нечем. Логикой? Но где гарантия, что твои предшественники сознательно что-то не упустили? Тогда и логика бесполезна. Вот отсюда и рождается и разброс с цифрами. Это надо понимать.
  • kalibr
    17 November 2019 15: 27 New
    +2
    Quote: HanTengri
    1. Why then make it dismantled?
    Possible to increase maintainability and hook and cuirass. Then, what if the bosses orders to fight on foot? With a hook is uncomfortable.
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    2. In no illustration accompanying this series of articles have I seen this stray on the armor of purely combat use

    The first answer is correct. And in the second way: there is no hook - this is the late armor when the riders refused the spear.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 November 2019 15: 31 New
    +6
    Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich and respect! hi

    And the minusers and spiteful critters shoot themselves ... with a pickle, in the absence of a service weapon. laughing
    1. kalibr
      17 November 2019 17: 58 New
      +6
      Вы знаете, уважаемый Константин, что не я, а Эразм Роттердамский еще когда написал свою "Похвалу глупости". Так что минусам я также рад, это клики, которые повышают рекламную привлекательность сайта. Спросите меня, что лучше 10000 + или 10000 - и я скажу Вам, что стоят они... одинаково!
  • NF68
    NF68 17 November 2019 17: 05 New
    +1
    And again, gorgeous products.
  • acetophenon
    acetophenon 17 November 2019 17: 34 New
    -1
    Quote: smith 55
    Thanks, very interesting .
    Looking only at the glove, it is already possible to understand how much labor has been invested in these armors. Well done old masters.

    And here they were repaired by self-tapping screws already present.
  • kalibr
    17 November 2019 17: 55 New
    +4
    Quote: acetophenon
    And here they were repaired by self-tapping screws already present.

    No idiot would ever think of spoiling the artifact in this way ... well, just huge. Modern plate gloves in the gift shop of the Vienna Armory, a copy of the old, but made by stamping, cost 150 euros. Now add antiquity, brand ... and there will be 150 thousand euros.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 17 November 2019 19: 00 New
    +4
    and the gendarme riders wore full royal armament

    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2019 20: 11 New
      +2
      That's what the life-giving corrector does !!! You can immediately see the person who published more than one novel!
      My respect, Ivan! hi
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 17 November 2019 20: 12 New
        +4
        Hello to you, too.