Military Review

Mamluks: armor and weapons

131
In iron chain mail and with copper helmets on their heads.
First Book of Maccabees 6: 35



Warriors of Eurasia. As with Western European knights, martial art mamelukes was the art of the riders, as its name suggests: Furusiyya, from the Arabic word "Far" - a horse. In Italian, a horse is “cavalry” - hence cavalry and cavaliers, in French - “cheval”, and hence - “Chevalier”, in Spanish - “bondage”, and hence - “caballero”! And in Germany, the word "ritter" literally meant a rider. That is, this terminological similarity only emphasizes the similar nature of warfare by Egyptian Mamelukes and knights of Western Europe. Although there were certain differences. If knights never shot from a bow while riding a horse, then for Mamluks this type of shooting was a typical way of fighting. And the Mamluks from the knights were distinguished by a high discipline, inspired by them from the very beginning of their training. The knightly youth of Europe was brought up differently and with discipline the knights always had big problems!

Mamluks: armor and weapons

Mamluks at the Battle of Hirokitia on 7 July 1426 of the year on the island of Cyprus. Fig. Peter Dennis


People developed in the most comprehensive way!


The fursy included archery, fencing, exercises with a spear and other forms weapons, wrestling and horse riding. It was also necessary to know the basics of horse anatomy and the pedigrees of the most thoroughbred horses. In addition to archery from a horse (which is how they actually differed from the knights of the West), the Mamluks were taught to use a crossbow, both in horseback and on foot. Popular, as in Europe, a means of mastering the horseman art was hunting with birds of prey and ... again, with a bow and crossbow. And every Mamluk should have been able to swim and play backgammon and chess!


17th century Indian turban helmet. Made in Dean, Bishapur. The helmet has the shape of a fabric turban. On a steel plate riveted on top, it says in Arabic: "There is no hero like Ali, and no sword like Zulfikar." This refers to the cousin of the Prophet Muhammad and the sword of the Prophet, which he gave to Ali. Height 30.5 cm; diameter 27.9 cm; weight 1760.5 g. As in Europe in the East, the "internationalism" of arms was very developed. Weapons were bought and sold sometimes thousands of kilometers from the place of production (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)


Here is this plate with an engraved inscription


Armament for soldiers to match.


We will still have material within the framework of the declared topic regarding the Middle East warriors, therefore, it makes no sense to talk about arming the Mamelukes before the 1350 of the year, there will be more about this. But about the weapons of the Mamluk warriors of the 15th century, it should be said that it was formed on the basis of the experience of previous centuries and consisted of a cotton caftan (haftan) lined with cotton, sewn both in the form of a dressing gown and in the form of a short shirt. Chain mail and lamellar armor, the javshan, a kind of plate corset, were put on him. The head of a simple warrior was well protected by an ordinary turban, but the rich Mamluks undoubtedly preferred metal helmets (usually a turban type) with platbands and chain mails to him. In the same XV century, separate armor was gradually replaced by chain-plate armor with an axial cut and fasteners on the chest. The chain mail in these armors, which was called Yushman in Russia, was supplemented by rows of rectangular plates on the chest and on the back, which are very convenient for decorating them with engraving and inlay. The hands covered the tubular bracers, the legs to the knees - lamellar or chain mail leggings with metal knee "cups" and triangular chain mail lap, hanging from them down to the shin.


Turkish Shishak helmet from Istanbul, approx. 1560


It is believed that this is one of two helmets (the second is in the Vienna Armory), made around 1560 of the year for the great vizier of the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (rules in 1520-66). Both helmets were allegedly made in one of the imperial workshops, possibly in Istanbul. Although this helmet is undoubtedly military, judging by its beautiful finishes and decorations, it could be created as part of the ceremonial armor and as a symbol of the high rank of its owner. Height 27.8 cm; weight 2580 g. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)


The same helmet, rear view


The main means of defeating the enemy, unlike the knights of Europe, among the Mamluks was a bow, not a spear. But they had spears (usually with bamboo poles), straight swords, oriental sabers and maces; as well as crossbows used in sieges and during battles at sea. On a campaign, the Mamluk warriors usually had only one horse, but one or a couple of camels to transport equipment. There was no uniform uniform, but many wore red or yellow clothes. Most of the Mameluk banners were also yellow, because the banners of the former Ayyubid dynasty were of the same color. The insignia of the military leaders were belts richly decorated with precious stones, set in gold and silver. However, not only belts were decorated, but also armor and weapons. The turban helmets were buried, covered with gilding and silvering, and Arabic texts were applied to them by engraving and inlaying (notches): texts of praise to Allah, surahs from the Koran, and also wishes for victory to their master. The same inscriptions were made on large plates of Yushmans, and there were masters who even managed to put the name of Allah and his prophet Muhammad on the rings of the baydans (chain mail from wide flattened rings)!


Yushman of the late XV - XVI century, possibly Turkish, Istanbul. 81,3 cm length, 10,07 kg weight (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)



Yushman plate with arabic inscription



Mirror armor, Turkey, XV-XVI centuries. Dimensions 38.1 x 45.08 cm. Comes from the arsenal in Istanbul located in St. Irina's Church in the Topkapi Palace (Los Angeles County Museum of Art)


Tactics for the corresponding combat personnel


Since the Mamluks were an equestrian army, the main thing in their tactics was maneuvering. By a false retreat, they sought to upset the ranks of the enemy and unexpectedly hit him from the flank. But they also had infantry. More disciplined and trained than European. Although the Mamluks rarely used infantry in battle in the field, they usually rely on cavalry in this case. The main task before the battle was to choose the most convenient location, with the expectation that there was a hill or hills behind to make it difficult for the enemy to attack from the rear. The construction of troops was traditional: the center and two flank units. A small enemy Mamluks sought to surround. But the superior forces of the Mamluk commanders tried first of all to exhaust them with frequent attacks, and then wedge themselves into the mass of horsemen where they found weakness. Cavalry of the Mamluks could, standing still, bombard the enemy with a hail of arrows, and then fake a flight, hoping that the pursuers on wounded horses would be put aside at the jump and thus the number of enemy troops would be reduced even before hand-to-hand fighting. There were special treatises on how to shoot and where to aim. It was indicated, for example, that if the enemy is nearby, then first you need to remove the sword from its sheath and hang it on your wrist. It was possible to shoot from a bow at him only after that, and having fired all the arrows, immediately attack the enemy demoralized by such a shelling!


Saber hilt, XVIII - XIX centuries. Handle - India. Blade - Turkey or Iran. Jewelry: jadeite, emeralds, diamonds, pearls, gold, silver (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)



The same saber. General form. Total length 99.8 cm; blade length 83.7 cm; sheath length 88 cm. Total weight 1129 g .; 1023 blade weight (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)



Turkish saber of the XVIII century. Blade - Iran. Handle - India. Jadeite handle, blade - inlaid with gold. Length 93 cm; blade length 77.7 cm; weight 935,5 g. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)


Serve for the land, like everywhere else!


The Mamluk army consisted of three formations, not including recruits and auxiliary units. This is the personal guard of the Sultan, detachments of emirs and free hulk mercenaries. Emir Mamluks were prepared worse than the Sultan, because they were not trained in elite schools. After the death of the emir, they usually transferred to the units of other emirs or became warriors of the hulk. For the service, the Mamluk officers received ikta - land plots with peasants. However, the Sultan could welcome them as a reward and "profitable places." For example, it could be ... a bridge through which a fare, mill or city market was charged. They were exempted from paying taxes, but in case of war they should have brought a detachment of armed people to the Sultan. Iktas were given into conditional possession and could not be inherited by descendants. Under Ayyubids, the detachments of free hulk citizens were also quite prestigious, although gradually their high status fell sharply, and fighting efficiency decreased. Interestingly, by the fourteenth century, anyone who wanted to be a hulk, like the modern Foreign Legion, could sign up, however, this required money, because the person who entered paid the commander a fee.


Bronze dirham of the end of the 13th century. (Los Angeles County Museum of Art)


About the number and the money ...


Already in the second half of the 13th century, thanks to the reforms of Sultan Beybars, the Egyptian army numerically increased significantly. It is reported that it included up to 40 000 warriors, of which 4 000 were Mamelukes. At the beginning of the XIV century, the army of the Mamelukes already reached 24 000 horsemen, of which 12 400 belonged to the units of emirs. 13 000 Mamluks and another 9 000 hulk lodged in the province. The emir-centurions had under their command detachments of 1 000 warriors and their own squad of bodyguards in 100 warriors. Then came the emirs who commanded a hundred warriors, and the emirs-foremen.


Mamluk horse armor:
(la) Horse armor from the end of the 13th or beginning of the 14th century, consisting of three fabric-covered scaly elements covering the rear, front and neck of the animal. Round heraldic medallions from appliqué fabric are sewn to them. The horse's head is protected by an iron shuffron, consisting of three mounted elements, covered with embossed leather, attached to the iron plates with decorative lacing.
(1 b) Detail of the angle of the horse armor made of scales with the decorative outer layer of fabric removed so that only the bottom three rows of riveted bronze scales are shown.
(lc) The inside of a scale of horse-drawn armor, showing the main leather construction base, large copper rivets securing the edge strip, the heads of three of the four rivets holding each strip.
(ld) Demonstration of the method of joining sheets of horse armor under the neck of an animal.
(2a) Laminated leather armor of the fourteenth century, consisting of five basic elements covering the croup, sides, front part and neck, as well as a three-layer steel shuffron covered with fabric for the head of the animal.
(2б) Schematic arrangement of the main elements of horse armor and their components. The red square indicates the area shown in detail in fig. 2c and 2d.
(2c) Appearance of the indicated upper corner of the chest armor with straps supporting horizontal laminated leather plates.
(2d) The inside of the indicated upper corner of the chest armor, showing a layer of quilted fabric to support this very top of the horse’s armor.
(3a-3c) Decorated steel shuffrons of the 14th century.
(Fig. Peter Dennis)



Saddle and Harness
(1) Reconstruction of the saddle of the end of the 13th or beginning of the 14th century from the Citadel of Damascus. The bows of the saddle are covered with embossed and polished but not dyed leather. The rear bow is made gentle for the rider's convenience when he has to shoot back from the bow.
(2а) Reconstruction of the decorated saddle of the end of the 13th or beginning of the 14th century from the Citadel of Damascus. On the front and back bows there are round painted medallions with the image of “Lev Beibars”.
(2б) Rear view of the saddle.
(3a and 3b) Frontal and lateral reconstruction of wood and ivory or stirrup bone of the XIV century.
(4а) Decorated bridle of the XV century.
(4b) Decoration of the bridle close-up. Gilded and embossed decorative copper plates are riveted to leather straps.
(Fig. Peter Dennis)


Wanting to strengthen the loyalty of his troops, Baybars significantly increased the salary of his Mamelukes. In addition to monthly payments, they were paid once every six months or a year to buy clothes and equipment, they paid their meat ration daily, and once every two weeks they gave out money to feed the horse. In addition to the proceeds from the granted plots, the Sultan made gifts to Mamluk officers before the campaign, and every new Sultan made the same gifts when he ascended the throne. At the beginning of the 15th century, the salary of a simple warrior was three dinars per month, and the salary of an officer was seven dinars. Some emirs of the hundred horsemen received income from ikta in the amount of 200000 dinars, emirs of forty riders - up to 30000 dinars, ten emirs - about 7000 dinars.

Использованная литература:
1. Asbridge, T. Crusades. Medieval Wars for the Holy Land. M .: Tsentrpoligraf, 2016.
2. Christie, N. Muslims and Crusaders: Christianity's Wars in the Middle East, 1095 - 1382, from the Islamic Sources. New York: Routledge, 2014.
3. Rabie, H. The training of the Mamluk Faris / War, Technology and Society in the Middle East. Ed. VJ Parry, ME Yapp. London, 1975.
4. Nicolle, D. Mamluk 'Askary' 1250 - 1517. UK. Oxford: Osprey Publishing (Warrior No.173), 2014.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Mamluks. Addition to the popular series “Knights and Knights of Three Centuries”
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  1. Mwg
    Mwg 3 November 2019 05: 51
    +6
    Well, yes, good warriors are well provided. Who does not want to feed his army, feeds someone else's
    1. Bar2
      Bar2 3 November 2019 08: 36
      +4
      Image of a mameluke, we see an absolutely excessive amount of cold chopping weapons.
      They say about such people, armed to the teeth.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 3 November 2019 09: 13
        +4
        "Ivan came up to him,
        He took out a sword, a sawed-off shotgun, a revolver ... "(c)
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 3 November 2019 11: 55
          +3
          "Not true. Quietly approach.
          You will ask for a shred.
          What does the knife have to do with it? What a robbery?
          Change the wording "(c).
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 3 November 2019 12: 50
            +2
            "Seki, chief, I told the whole truth
            And he came here accompanied.
            After all, I tied up with banditry.
            Give me back the certificate of my release. "(C)
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 3 November 2019 13: 38
              +1
              "I heard: they can give ten for this.
              Add them eight
              To give two "(c).
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 November 2019 18: 32
                0
                "And the case was not postponed,
                And announced the verdict,
                And they gave everything that I should
                Plus, the prosecutor made me five "(c)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 3 November 2019 18: 42
                  +1
                  “He lives in the city of Vologda.
                  And I'm in the north. And the north is where he is ”(c).
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 3 November 2019 18: 47
                    0
                    "Rzhevsky:
                    Yes, I've been to this Vologda! Such a hole, you know! "(C)
              2. Hantengri
                Hantengri 3 November 2019 19: 12
                +1
                "He was good in battle,
                And after he raped a pig.
                They all laughed like one
                For this he took revenge, you cretin! "(C)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 3 November 2019 19: 28
                  +1
                  "To your health, Fuzzy!
                  For Sudan, your country!
                  First-class, naked nakedness,
                  You were a warrior in battle "(c).
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 3 November 2019 19: 39
                    0
                    "Skullcap and robe -
                    That's our whole outfit.
                    There is apricot, there is halva ...
                    Here the law will allow you
                    No foppiness
                    Polygamy! "(C)
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 3 November 2019 20: 10
                      +1
                      "Apricot blossoms under the roar of days.
                      The dawn of the village trembles.
                      And among aryks and alleys
                      The donkey goes for a walk "(c).
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 3 November 2019 20: 17
                        -2
                        "My wife is an evil shaitan
                        My head scolds.
                        We ate our donkey
                        Until the last gut "(c).
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 3 November 2019 20: 25
                        0
                        "And gave their little family
                        Ishak - a connoisseur of Turkestan "(c).
                      3. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 3 November 2019 21: 01
                        0
                        "He knocked his hooves,
                        Screamed like a donkey
                        And twisted his tail -
                        I wanted to be a man. "(C)
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 3 November 2019 21: 15
                        0
                        "Becoming a captain
                        Keep the sailor in yourself "(c).
                      5. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 3 November 2019 21: 39
                        -1
                        "They gave me coffee, cocoa, food,
                        So that I greeted them: "How do you do?"
                        But I repeated from dawn to dawn:
                        "Caramba!", "Bullfight !!" and "Damn it !!!" "(c)
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 3 November 2019 23: 04
                        0
                        "The giraffe is big -
                        He knows better "(c).
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 3 November 2019 20: 37
                      0
                      "I'm getting married. I'm getting married!
                      What kind of toys can be?
                      But you, but you, my girlfriends of yesterday,
                      Crying for me in vain! "(C)
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 3 November 2019 21: 14
                        0
                        "Eh, citizen, I ask - do not leave,
                        We will burn without you, drown, the harvest will perish. "(C)
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 November 2019 21: 44
                        0
                        Don’t worry, I didn’t leave
                        And do not hope, I will not leave! "(C)
            2. Mwg
              Mwg 3 November 2019 19: 43
              +2
              Seki boss, I walked on the side of the day,
              stared at w .. x and peacefully ate a donut
              And here this fraer heals to me
              Shouting: k ... l, throw me a little red ....
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 54
                -1
                Great to start the game!
                "I'll remember everything to him,
                Bes him in the ribs!
                Will only rob fraerov !! "(c)
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 3 November 2019 20: 41
                    0
                    "And I'm going
                    I smoke "(c)
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 3 November 2019 20: 43
                      +2
                      "Head like a kerosene lamp
                      On the shoulders "(c).
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 November 2019 20: 58
                        +1
                        "With a crossbow in the subway,
                        With a samurai sword between his teeth,
                        In virtual armor,
                        And more often, as a rule, without "(c)
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 3 November 2019 21: 13
                        +1
                        "We could serve in intelligence,
                        We could play a movie "(c).
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 November 2019 21: 28
                        0
                        "But you have to choose" wooden suits ". (C)
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 3 November 2019 23: 03
                        -1
                        "And everyone has one head,
                        Like me "(c).
      2. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 3 November 2019 21: 02
        +2
        Quote: Bar2
        Image of a mameluke, we see an absolutely excessive amount of cold chopping weapons.

        This image was taken from an art photograph - they simply hung everything they found for greater exoticism.
    2. Cartalon
      Cartalon 3 November 2019 09: 12
      +1
      So, the Mamelukes were an alien army.
  2. Talgarets
    Talgarets 3 November 2019 05: 54
    +3
    Saber 18-19c is great!
    1. Talgarets
      Talgarets 3 November 2019 06: 35
      +2
      It would be nice to have a separate article on status weapons.
  3. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 3 November 2019 07: 12
    +10
    Belissimo! No words only emotions ! What kind of work and how much time must be invested in order to please us so much with this and other articles! I say this, a person who knows for sure that "laziness was born before him"! Taking off my hat ! hi
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2019 07: 50
      +10
      Thank you for appreciating my work and my work. In fact, all this requires not so much work, provided that ... you have to think all the time. Think about where to go and what to see, think about where to write and what to ask for, think about what to do if you have not been answered and you have not received what you are looking for. The information itself is collected gradually and then accumulates ... for years. Then, when the information itself adds up or just instantly climbs into your hands and you have a suitable mood (an inner voice says - I am writing about rifles, but my aunt is sick of knights or vice versa!) You sit down, drive goes and ... the material is ready in an hour. Then you insert a photo into it for another hour and that's it. Worse if you are distracted by the housework and the drive is lost. Then the material is postponed until ... the next instructions of the "inner voice". Another important thing: I never rush to write right away, here's some advice for you. Right now I go to the party archive and read their materials. But ... I don't rush to write. Everything you read should lie down .. And purely technically ... you take from there, from here, the translation from English, German ... then the style, editing, then you insert all this into Advego-Plagiatus and when it shows 92-96% novelty (without epigraph), we can assume that the material is ready.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 3 November 2019 10: 27
        +6
        Good morning everyone! Greetings to you Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thank you, you did a good job about the harsh eastern wars. And what about the party archives, do you need it? Again a civil war will begin on the site, insults and everything attached to them. Armor, knights, weapons, museums -this is your theme! Immense! Oh, I almost forgot about modeling! Write, and we will read and praise the author. Sincerely, I. hi
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 November 2019 18: 56
          -1
          My respect, Sergey!
          Yes, damn it! While Shpakovsky is still being admitted to the party archives of the Penza region, I can only welcome his research, no matter how "hip" they turn out!
          For a couple of years more and our primordially primordial "tash and not push" will prevail in the information sphere.
        2. Mwg
          Mwg 3 November 2019 19: 49
          +1
          "And what about the party archives, do you need it?" - yes, it is not always unambiguous ..
  4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 November 2019 07: 17
    +7
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thanks for the continuation! The series is gorgeous !!!
    If about five months ago, reading another article, I sorrowfully sighed, "Europe mustache has ended, eh, a little East." Then today, even the east is almost completely hit by zero.
    Share your creative plans, otherwise I have “thoughts” and “dummies,” but I'm afraid to jinx it.
    Sincerely, Your Vlad!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 3 November 2019 10: 28
      +5
      Vlad !!! Glad to meet you! A long time ago you were gone. laughing hi drinks
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 November 2019 14: 58
        +3
        There are spring cats, there are autumn things!
        Glad to read you guys - miss you!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 00
          0
          "there are autumn things!"
          Kittens in the fall count ?! laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 3 November 2019 19: 36
            0
            Well, it’s not for members to count them! laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 3 November 2019 20: 19
              -2
              You can count in different ways. Mathematics, more ephemeral and anthropocentric science than physics. What can we say about history?
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 3 November 2019 11: 46
      +2
      Hello, hello! fellow Where have you been for so long? drinks
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 November 2019 14: 56
        +3
        Voyage at the expense of the state - Orenburg-Orsk!
        Thank you for not forgetting the prodigal cat!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 3 November 2019 15: 23
          +2
          Our cats are a little "wrong", they do not walk by themselves, but mainly in a pack. smile
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 3 November 2019 16: 57
            +2
            School cats? Sounds great! fellow
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 November 2019 18: 47
              +1
              From 10 to 15 pieces, for state kosh! Although the result is only “stones” remain !!! laughing
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 03
            0
            For this, dogs become pure extroverts!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 3 November 2019 19: 34
              +2
              Well, if that, please contact.
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 November 2019 19: 40
              +1
              It’s not Anton that you are talking in vain! One of the points is “checking the content of service dogs” with the obligatory “selfie for memory” and “questionnaire on knowledge of the police law”! I must admit that the Orsk Shepherd dogs looked much more presentable than I did after two sleepless nights on the debriefing !!!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 November 2019 20: 08
                -1
                Duc, it’s understandable! Dogs for service scent need to be kept in order. What about cats? Pure empathy! laughing
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 3 November 2019 07: 23
    +7
    Not armor and weapons, but works of ART.
    The skill of the eastern gunsmiths is simply amazing!
  6. kalibr
    3 November 2019 07: 30
    +3
    Quote: Talgarets
    It would be nice to have a separate article on status weapons.

    Thanks! Good idea.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 3 November 2019 11: 04
      +4
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, I am grateful. hi
      I just do not like this oriental sweetness and passion for "re-decoration", it is difficult to imagine a golden AKM sprinkled with "pebbles", although in some places it comes to this. I do not mean ceremonial armor and weapons, but, so to speak, the "tools of labor" of a professional soldier, who, in fact, the Mamelukes were.
      We once did an exhibition dedicated to European weapons and armor (XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries, approximately), so there was a large showcase entirely dedicated to reiters and other landsknechts-mercenaries. That's where pure functionalism was! No embellishments, no "curls", much less "pebbles" - one black iron on the blades and cuirass. But what a work of masters! Even me, who was not experienced in weapons of that time, it was clear how well everything was thought out, high quality and functional. The Soldier's real weapon.
      Maybe when you have time and desire, devote a separate article to the hired army of those times. soldier
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 3 November 2019 11: 31
        +4
        Good morning Konstantin! Golden AKM? Somewhere, somewhere such a photo flashed, but without * bruhlique *. It seems to be a confiscation from some drug lord!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 3 November 2019 11: 44
          +2
          Hello, Sergey! Yes. Something similar flashed at some African "mobuta", and even in the movie about arms dealers. )))
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 12
            -1
            Feature film "The Armory Baron"
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 3 November 2019 19: 47
              +1
              Yeah, he is the most. Just another question, what did this baron trade. wassat
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 3 November 2019 18: 28
          +1
          Quote: Phil77

          Good morning Konstantin! Golden AKM? Somewhere, somewhere such a photo flashed, but without * bruhlique *. It seems to be a confiscation from some drug lord!

          At Saddam Hussein.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 4 November 2019 06: 28
            +1
            Quote: HanTengri
            Saddam Hussein

            Exactly, but I’ll correct it a little bit, Saddam’s gift to his son Udey. Have I been worried about the drug lords, though? Perhaps they have one.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 15
        0
        To Graz, Constantine, to Graz! There is "steel filled with blood."
  7. kalibr
    3 November 2019 07: 39
    +5
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Then today, even the east is almost completely hit by zero.

    Not! This is just the beginning!
    Plans. Now you can talk about this: 1. Finish the topic of the warriors 1050-1350. 2 - smoothly expand it into the theme "Warriors of Eurasia" and supplement it with what has not been said. 3. To start a series of articles "Party archive documents". There is so much other interesting ... real and not newspaper life of our country. 4. Finish the series. "Firms and rifles" .5. Finish the topic "Books on Alternative History". It is natural to continue and develop the theme of weapons museums in Europe and the world. This topic will generally go and go. There are a lot of museums. There are some local Penza themes, but interesting to everyone. As you can see, all plans are spelled out clearly, the goals are clear, it remains to sit down and write.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 3 November 2019 12: 03
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      This is just the beginning!
      Plans.

      fellow good drinks yes
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 19
      0
      And yet, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Insignia of units and formations of the Mongolian army. Already two years as promised. We are waiting !!!
  8. Korsar4
    Korsar4 3 November 2019 08: 47
    +2
    And Baybars is an amazing character. And the weapons of his time fit him. Thank.
  9. Bar2
    Bar2 3 November 2019 08: 52
    +4
    a pointed faceted helmet was called a shishak?
    Shishak is a bump, round, without a tip.
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2019 10: 55
      +3
      Shish - a spearhead!
    2. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 3 November 2019 21: 05
      +1
      Quote: Bar2
      a pointed faceted helmet was called a shishak?
      Shishak is a bump, round, without a tip.

      No, in the photo you have given there is a typical "misyurk" helmet, not a "shishak" (which means a more elongated sphero-conical shape with a point).
  10. Bar2
    Bar2 3 November 2019 09: 07
    +2
    So you look at the history of Russia / Russia, but how many wars have there been since the beginning of existence in Russia, well, at least for TI? Probably hundreds of wars. And imagine that all these wars Russia fought with imported iron, in Russia there was no iron, no bronze, no gold, no lead, and there were always wars, this is such a paradox. We sold sables, honey, wax, bought European iron, European lead, and fought these European achievements throughout their short history.
    This is our story.
    1. Andrey Kazantsev
      Andrey Kazantsev 4 November 2019 21: 35
      0
      But what about the iron mined from the marshes of the Vologda region. and Tula region?
  11. XII Legion
    XII Legion 3 November 2019 09: 17
    +5
    I read about Mamluks only here!
    Thank you interesting
  12. knn54
    knn54 3 November 2019 10: 35
    +2
    This article also confirmed that the Mamluks despised the firearm, considering it unworthy of real warriors, which did not allow them to win solely due to strength and dexterity.
  13. kalibr
    3 November 2019 10: 54
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    They sold sables, honey, wax, bought European iron, European lead and fought these European achievements throughout their short history.
    This is our story.

    By the way, yes. You noticed it well.
  14. kalibr
    3 November 2019 11: 02
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    And what about the party archives, do you need it? Again a civil war will begin on the site, insults and everything attached to them. Armor, knights, weapons, museums - this is your theme! Immense! Oh, I almost forgot about modeling! Write , and we will read and praise the author. Best regards, I.

    Sergei! I grew up from the age when my heart melts with praise. Now it is pleasant to me, but not necessary. Moreover, the monotonous work is tiresome. I personally need variety. It's boring to write about museums all the time. And VO readers also need variety, and besides ... do you need to blow off some steam? There is one more reason. Do you remember here on VO there was a series of articles "The Poisoned Feather"? So today it turned into a book for which I sign a contract. That is, the book will finally be available to its people, many people, and not only the VO contingent, will be able to read it. And a book for children "Children of the Soviet Paradise" is also planned (by the way, there were separate chapters from it here too), which also needs absolutely documented facts. So, alas, you can't do without an archive.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 27
      -1
      Book? The Poisoned Feather cycle ?! I will even buy for 5000 rubles !!! In 10 years it will become a rarity.
  15. kalibr
    3 November 2019 11: 05
    +2
    Quote: XII Legion
    I read about Mamluks only here!
    Thank you interesting

    Me too ha ha! I want to try to go to Istanbul and Cairo and write a big thick book about them. But this will not happen tomorrow ...
  16. Engineer
    Engineer 3 November 2019 11: 23
    +2
    This Peter Dennis draws much better than the same McBride. He is good at everything, but gives it back with a bast. Prior to this article, I did not pay attention to this new name for me.
    1. kalibr
      3 November 2019 12: 07
      +1
      I draw your attention to the fact that in the first figure ALL the details, from the tip of the spear to the helmet, are all copied from museum exhibits. Checked ...
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 3 November 2019 12: 15
        +3
        Another plus to him.
        The same McBride from the recently disassembled: Avar Goiko Mitich on a horse in a shirt without a helmet with a double-edged sword, and next to him a Slavic warrior in a helmet with long black braids and an ax. laughing laughing laughing
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 November 2019 19: 39
      -1
      As far as I understand, Dennis is to some extent a MacBride student, for a single style can be traced. And it is difficult to blame Osprey for claims for such requirements, for Sheps is mowing everywhere, wherever possible.
      Meanwhile, Dennis, also a well-known modeller, leaves its mark.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 3 November 2019 19: 42
        +1
        The uniform style, as I understand it, is coming from the publisher. Osprey is a brand and corporate identity has not been canceled. McBride draws as a very good lover immersed in the topic. But it is an amateur. This I judge by some schematics (absolutely subjective and unprofessional). Dennis sculpts like a pro.
        1. kalibr
          3 November 2019 21: 34
          +1
          Denis! The requirements are the same for everyone. Besides painting, of course. In sketches for every detail there should be a photo - WHERE TO. That is, even the handle of a saber or "horn" of a bow cannot be depicted, so as not to indicate with an arrow, firstly, from where, and secondly, the material and color. To be honest, it's easier to write the book itself than to write such a description for each picture.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 3 November 2019 21: 39
            +1
            I have no doubt that formally so. But nonetheless, as far as shit can be judged, nonetheless happens. And Osprey sometimes frankly messes up.
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 3 November 2019 21: 42
        +1
        for Sheps, mowing wherever possible.

        I'm sorry, but who is Sheps I do not know)
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 November 2019 21: 50
          -1
          Denis, my respect!
          Well, at least on "sprite" ask for Sheps.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 3 November 2019 22: 06
            0
            I did not find this figure in Men at Arms, and the rest is not very interesting to me.
  17. lucul
    lucul 3 November 2019 11: 36
    +3
    Good article.
  18. kalibr
    3 November 2019 12: 09
    +3
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Maybe when you have time and desire, devote a separate article to the hired army of those times.

    2 is already written, 3 is added ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 3 November 2019 16: 49
      +1
      I look forward to it. smile
  19. Operator
    Operator 3 November 2019 13: 48
    +2
    "Far" - a horse. In Italian, the horse is “cavalry” - hence the cavalry and cavaliers, in French - “Cheval”, and hence - “Chevalier”, in Spanish - “bondage”, and from here - “caballero”, - all words are derived from our "mare" bully
    1. Town Hall
      Town Hall 3 November 2019 17: 39
      0
      Quote: Operator
      In Italian, the horse is “caval”

      But google yourself is not fate?
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 3 November 2019 18: 57
        0
        Quote: Town Hall
        Quote: Operator
        In Italian, the horse is “caval”

        But google yourself is not fate?

        Sorry, but this is a quote from the article.
  20. Undecim
    Undecim 3 November 2019 16: 11
    +3
    the military art of the Mamluks was the art of the riders, as its name suggests: Furusiyya
    I, Vyacheslav Olegovich, would stop at that and devote a separate article to Furūsiyya, because this very Furusiyya, in my unprofessional opinion, is the quintessence of the life style, worldview, education and military art of the Mamelukes. The question really was perfected. For example.

    This illustration from Kitāb al-bayṭara describes the conformation of a horse and the effect of deviations from the ideal conformation on the horse's ability to perform "combat" functions. This is the knowledge that an ordinary Mamluk should have had.
  21. Bar2
    Bar2 3 November 2019 16: 19
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    By the way, yes. You noticed it well.

    I said this with sarcasm. The kind of picture that historians painted for us seems incredible.
    On the Kulikovo field alone, 70 thousand soldiers fought on both sides.
    At 10 kg per soldier -700 tons of weapons-grade iron and steel at a minimum is a lot, can this be?
    1. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 3 November 2019 21: 08
      +2
      Quote: Bar2
      On the Kulikovo field alone, 70 thousand soldiers fought on both sides.
      10 kg per soldier -700 tons of weapons iron and

      Your comment is somewhat off topic, however it is too much indeed; more real numbers - about 10 \ 30 thousand on each side; in general, the exact number of warriors of this particular battle is a very large and difficult question ...
  22. kalibr
    3 November 2019 17: 03
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    On the Kulikovo field alone, 70 thousand soldiers fought on both sides.

    Too much!
  23. kalibr
    3 November 2019 17: 05
    +1
    Quote: Undecim
    I, Vyacheslav Olegovich, would stop at that and devote a separate article to Furūsiyya, because this very Furusiyya, in my unprofessional opinion, is the quintessence of the life style, worldview, education and military art of the Mamelukes. The question really was perfected. For example.

    Is logical. By the way, I saw this illustration, but did not give. And you can write a lot about Furusia. By the way, Nicolas devoted a whole book to her! And like I have it ...
  24. kalibr
    3 November 2019 17: 07
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    "Far" is a horse. In Italian, the horse is "caval" - hence the cavalry and cavaliers, in French - "cheval", and hence - "chevalier", in Spanish - "cabal", and hence - "caballero" - all words are derived from our "mare"

    The word horse of Turkic origin. They sounded it ALOSHA. But the words horse, mare, stallion are of purely Slavic origin. Go back to the Indo-European proto-language.
  25. Operator
    Operator 3 November 2019 17: 23
    +3
    Quote: kalibr
    purely Slavic origin. Go back to Indo-European Proto-language

    Think in the right direction, a little more - and you will be able to pronounce "Sanskrit" instead of "Indo-European proto-language" laughing
  26. Looking for
    Looking for 3 November 2019 17: 31
    +2
    What kind of authors, just to "cut down" the loot Describes the period of the 14-15 centuries. And illustrates this with weapons of the 17-18 centuries.
  27. Bar2
    Bar2 3 November 2019 18: 53
    +3
    as it was in the Kremlin there was an exhibition of Indian weapons, and so he drew attention to the sabers, the handles are so small, as if made for children or women. These photos are also with small handles.
  28. kalibr
    3 November 2019 19: 03
    0
    Quote: Seeker
    "Describes the period of the 14-15 centuries. And illustrates this with weapons of the 17-18 centuries.

    Find photos of weapons of 14-15 centuries and everyone will thank you!
  29. kalibr
    3 November 2019 19: 08
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Yes, damn it! While Shpakovsky is still being admitted to the party archives of the Penza region, I can only welcome his research, no matter how "hip" they turn out!
    For a couple of years more and our primordially primordial "tash and not push" will prevail in the information sphere.

    The archive is being renovated. Stones fall out of the wall, but most importantly - they install a frame and a turnstile for the passage. And then there is one guard, but there is no frame with a metal detector !!! Now it will be! But the elevator is not expected to employees. The building is old - you can’t!
  30. kalibr
    3 November 2019 20: 48
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Meanwhile, Dennis, also a well-known modeller, leaves its mark.

    Of course. But I once wrote about the requirements of Osprey. They are complex but completely justified, otherwise how?
  31. kalibr
    3 November 2019 20: 51
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    And yet, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Insignia of units and formations of the Mongolian army. Already two years as promised. We are waiting !!!

    Anton! I remember, but ... bad with the stuff. And here it goes into its own hands - Venice, Vienna, Innsbruck, the Metropolitan Museum of Art ... But I try to follow the line of least resistance. I thought there was information. And there were not many offensively. Not expected...
  32. Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin 3 November 2019 21: 14
    0
    The article is very good, once again just thanks to the author. Photographic accompaniment is generally beyond praise.

    But the main thing (in my opinion) is not said - that the corps of "Mamluks" with heavier weapons, more professional training was created on the model of Western European knights and to resist them, just after the previously used corps of "gulyams" showed its inefficiency in battles against the crusaders.

    And even 12000 "Mamluks" are a tremendous force; considering that in terms of armament, equipment and training it was the Middle Eastern analogue of the European knight - no ruler of Christian Europe during the High Middle Ages could bring so many knights into the field.
  33. kalibr
    3 November 2019 21: 29
    0
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    But the main thing (in my opinion) is not said - that the corps of "Mamluks" with heavier weapons, more professional training was created on the model of Western European knights and to resist them, just after the previously used corps of "gulyams" showed its inefficiency in battles against the crusaders.

    And even 12000 "Mamluks" are a tremendous force; considering that in terms of armament, equipment and training it was the Middle Eastern analogue of the European knight - no ruler of Christian Europe during the High Middle Ages could bring so many knights into the field.

    This is a good addition, thanks!
  34. kalibr
    3 November 2019 21: 36
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    To Graz, Constantine, to Graz! There is "steel filled with blood."

    Do not hurt the wounds, Anton. I drove past, but could not call! He sees an eye ... Now I want to get in touch with them ... to receive, a lot of everything ... but there are problems.
    1. kalibr
      4 November 2019 17: 31
      +1
      Anton! Rejoice; problems resolved!
  35. Bar2
    Bar2 3 November 2019 22: 57
    +1
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    Quote: Bar2
    On the Kulikovo field alone, 70 thousand soldiers fought on both sides.
    10 kg per soldier -700 tons of weapons iron and

    Your comment is somewhat off topic, however it is too much indeed; more real numbers - about 10 \ 30 thousand on each side; in general, the exact number of warriors of this particular battle is a very large and difficult question ...


    Of course, you’ve better considered it all.

    Russian annals give the following data on the size of the Russian army: “The Annalistic Tale of the Battle of Kulikovo” - 100 thousand soldiers of the Moscow Principality and 50-100 thousand soldiers of the Allies, “The Legend of the Mamaev Massacre”, also written on the basis of a historical source - 260 thousand. or 303 thousand, the Nikon Chronicle - 400 thousand (there are estimates of the number of individual units of the Russian army: 30 thousand Belozertsy, 7 or 30 thousand Novgorodians, 7 or 70 thousand Lithuanians, 40-70 thousand in an ambush regiment).

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Куликовская_битва
  36. Bar2
    Bar2 4 November 2019 02: 45
    0
    Shpakovsky does not have much with the actual material. Here is another image of the mameluke. But this is most likely the mamelukes who already served in the French army, this can be judged by clearly European orders. The headdress is also stylized as a European uniform.
    Harem pants are clearly of an oriental hue, as well as Cossack, Cossacks always wore harem pants, which later turned into breeches. The truth is in this image that harem pants are most likely to be worn on foot.
    The face of this African is clearly not Arab, but a white man.



    What did the sultans of Egypt and the surrounding countries look like? These countries were called primarily Barbaria, Marmaria, Libya.
    Here is an old map of the 17th century. The Sultan wears a solar crown and sits on the throne in European style.



    https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b55000158q/f1.item.zoom
  37. kalibr
    4 November 2019 07: 04
    +2
    Quote: Bar2
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Куликовская_битва

    What do you poke me on Wikipedia as 100% source. This is only the direction in which you need to collect materials ... The discussion about the number of soldiers started back in 1980 with an article by D. Zenin in Technique-Youth. By the way, very interesting. On the web can be found. Then there were Questions-stories and ... something just wasn’t.
    1. Bar2
      Bar2 4 November 2019 11: 19
      -1
      So, Vyacheslav, I promised you the last time to introduce you to my thoughts on the past of our world.
      Here's an introductory article. There you can find out who the gals are and who the Mongols are.
      Pavel Ordynsky at your service.

      http://new.chronologia.org/polemics/great_gallium.php
      1. kalibr
        4 November 2019 15: 36
        +1
        The new chronology is not for me. You got the address wrong. Briefly describe the writings of your Horde as follows: bullshit. All links to livejournals. This is not serious.
  38. Bar2
    Bar2 4 November 2019 10: 52
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    What do you poke me on Wikipedia as 100% source. This is only the direction in which you need to collect materials ... The discussion about the number of soldiers started back in 1980 with an article by D. Zenin in Technique-Youth. By the way, very interesting. On the web can be found. Then there were Questions-stories and ... something just wasn’t.


    there’s a chronicle and that Wikipedia entry refers to it. A list of annals is given there. So there’s no reason to open a discussion, especially since there is almost nothing on the Field itself.
  39. kalibr
    4 November 2019 15: 44
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    A list of annals is given there.

    Our annals I read almost everything as a student. I myself always blame our Soviet education for excessive tampering and limited sources. But ... if something had to be learned, it was taught well.
    In particular, this concerned the study of chronicles. The subject was even such - historiography. Which started with them.
  40. Bar2
    Bar2 4 November 2019 16: 19
    +1
    Quote: Bar2
    Quote: kalibr
    What do you poke me on Wikipedia as 100% source. This is only the direction in which you need to collect materials ... The discussion about the number of soldiers started back in 1980 with an article by D. Zenin in Technique-Youth. By the way, very interesting. On the web can be found. Then there were Questions-stories and ... something just wasn’t.


    there’s a chronicle and that Wikipedia entry refers to it. A list of annals is given there. So there’s no reason to open a discussion, especially since there is almost nothing on the Field itself.


    In general, my research is conducted on medieval maps available on some sites.
    Such famous cartographers as Abraham Ortelius or Nicolas Sanson are very well known in the academic environment. Semyon Remizov, a cartographer of the times of Peter, created the "Drawing Book of Siberia" and many other cartographers who probably created THOUSANDS OF MAPS. It is not serious to disown this world heritage, because it was these people who lived closer to the eras that interest us now.
    It is necessary to carefully analyze old maps and bring them into line with a modern history textbook ..
    Well, Svetlana Zharnikova is a candidate for a doctor of historical sciences, her opinion can not be discounted at all.
    Because it doesn’t happen that the picture of the world that they saw and that we see is two different visions of the world
    1. kalibr
      4 November 2019 17: 40
      +1
      As for the similarity of words, in Chinese pizidi means knees, and here is such a funny children's phrase: "Can you draw a gray fox?" [Ni x'u'y bu x'u'y x'u'a h'ui 'se de h'uli?] Absolutely, that with such an abundance of Russian words the Chinese ... too ... Russians!
  41. kalibr
    4 November 2019 17: 29
    +1
    Quote: Bar2
    Well, Svetlana Zharnikova is a candidate for a doctor of historical sciences, her opinion can not be discounted at all.

    I am also a candidate for a doctor of historical sciences. I have a doctorate written and a monograph on it, and not one ... So my opinion, too, cannot be discounted. To consider that Lutetia (Paris) is related to the Slavs - bullshit!
  42. Bar2
    Bar2 4 November 2019 18: 31
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    Lutetia (Paris) is related to the Slavs - bullshit!

    Paris Lutetia - from here Paris.
    Consider the proof of this thesis.
    Pulling one name from the group of others - it may seem. That this is an illegal act.
    But firstly, it is necessary to consider Lutetia of Paris as a city of the country of Gaul, which, contrary to TI, appears in the 16-17th century, just as the city of Lutetia itself should also be forgotten along with the Galas, when the Romans conquered Galia finally by the 4th century. But there isn’t Gaul and Lutetia are out of time.
    We can say that Gaul is Latin for France, but the most interesting thing is that on those same maps there are both Gaul and France, as a small area around Paris-Lutetia.
    Other cities of Gaul
    Russell Lille
    -La Rochelle
    -Bordeaux-BAR is a Barsky city.
    -Luxembourg-Lutzenburg is the city of the Lucids.

    toponyms
    ROSNA RONA
    Rosna has tributaries -
    -Pine and Trosna
    -Dordogne, tributary-
    -Don
    -Rane source-
    -Rusna, like the river Neman / Memel
    -Tech- river in the Pyrenees

    it’s also nice to recall the Qatari history of France.
    hence
    -Russellon-province
    as well as Cathars / Bogomils. who were, as is known by the Slavs.
    So there are enough names for each, it is advisable to understand separately.
    The island gals -Britans / Baritans, who are relatives of the continental Gauls and their toponyms can already be given separately.
    Or toponymy of Italy, there are also Rus / Ros and Arta / Horde, and Bar.
  43. Elturisto
    Elturisto 4 November 2019 21: 01
    +1
    Pictures are nothing. Article trash ...
  44. kalibr
    4 November 2019 21: 42
    0
    Quote: ElTuristo
    Pictures are nothing. Article trash ...

    What would the bearded understand in sausage scraps ...
  45. kalibr
    4 November 2019 21: 44
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    Or toponymy of Italy, there are also Rus / Ros and Arta / Horde, and Bar.

    Drink less. Tap water. There is chlorine in it, it oxidizes the brain! Once again, to get it: "Can you draw a gray fox?" [Ni x'u'y bu x'u'y x'u'a h'uy's de h'uli?]
  46. kalibr
    4 November 2019 21: 48
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    I once promised last time to introduce you to my thoughts on the past of our world.

    Oh Lord, I forgot the saying, don’t touch the shit, it won’t stink ...
  47. Bar2
    Bar2 4 November 2019 22: 16
    +2
    Quote: Andrey Kazantsev
    But what about the iron mined from the marshes of the Vologda region. and Tula region?


    it is not a matter of swamp ore, it is of poor quality with impurities, the fact is that historians refuse access to Kamenny Belt to Peter, and in the Urals there was everything and high-quality iron and copper and other necessary ores.
    And in Russia itself, too, there were iron mines, but historians forbid considering their development until again Peter.
    In short, everything began with the arrival of the Germans in Russia, and without the Germans in Russia there was no life.
  48. Bar2
    Bar2 4 November 2019 22: 20
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Bar2
    I once promised last time to introduce you to my thoughts on the past of our world.

    Oh Lord, I forgot the saying, don’t touch the shit, it won’t stink ...

    , yes here is a typical cultural traditional historian.
  49. kalibr
    5 November 2019 11: 23
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    yes here is a typical cultural traditional historian.

    And what if I see shit? Say it's roses? Shit, it is shit!
  50. kalibr
    5 November 2019 11: 24
    0
    Quote: Bar2
    In short, everything began with the arrival of the Germans in Russia, and without the Germans in Russia there was no life.

    Read the multi-volume ARCHEOLOGY OF RUSSIA ... and the nonsense will be reduced.