In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57

The Chinese media publish materials on the export potential of Russian 5 fighters of the Su-57 generation. It is noted that if as early as 3-4 years ago, few people took this aircraft seriously as a new generation combat vehicle in the world, now different countries are showing interest.

In particular, attention is drawn to the interest in Su-57 from countries such as Malaysia, Turkey and Myanmar. And this, apart from the interest from India, which is minimized, it “flares up” against the background of the understanding that New Delhi has no other options yet. At the same time, Chinese experts note that it is the market of Southeast Asia that may prove to be successful for fighters of the 5 generation of Russian production, and therefore "competition must be made."

SINA Military:

The Su-57 fighter is the first invisible fighter developed by Russia, it competes with the American F-22 fighter. In addition to advanced avionics and powerful rocket arms, the aircraft also has super-maneuverability, which was shown in detail by Russian pilots at the MAKS-2019 air show.

The Chinese media recalls that Russia is traditionally active in the market of Southeast Asia and in terms of the sale of other fighters - to Vietnam, Indonesia, the same Malaysia and Myanmar. At the same time, the following fact is given with obvious regret: Myanmar decided to purchase Russian Yak-130 UBS and simulators for them and refused the Chinese offer.

Next is an attempt to kind of complacency:

Of course, the Su-57 cannot be compared with the F-35, so it must be noted that countries that have a request for a modern fighter with high performance and capabilities will not buy a Russian aircraft. And other countries actually have no choice. They should be considered as a possible customer for the purchase of a fifth-generation fighter, China. We need to actively enter these markets.

As a result, it is argued that the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics. And when did you manage to compare in business?

Chinese users, commenting on this material, noted that the country's authorities themselves are extremely reluctant to export modern funds aviation.

Comments

[svp67]

Normal competition. When one of the parties is simply trying to lure buyers to itself. Our KLA specialists will have to work hard to win the fight.

[Thrall]

As the famous Chinese proverb says, chickens in the fall count

[NEXUS]

As a result, it is argued that the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics. And when did you manage to compare in business?

If the SU-57 is exported, then after some time, it will meet in air combat with both the F-35 and the J-20, in the military conflict of third countries. And it is at that moment that everything will become clear, and conversations about "who is thicker" will end once and for all. But ... the main parameter of a fighter is the pilot and most of the effectiveness of a fighter depends on the pilot.

[Voyager]

And here and there. Nothing will become clear as it does not become clear regarding some Soviet fighter jets that were used by other countries and participated in conflicts with a sad outcome for them. There are too many factors, starting with the training of pilots and command, ending with the geographical location, application strategy, the presence of air defense and so on.

I mean, the story can be repeated again, when in well-planned operations experienced American or Israeli pilots once again take an advantage over the much less skillful, cunning and weak representatives of third countries. As a result, crushing accounts in favor of American fighters and the Su-57, once mediocrely lost in weak hands, will once again be announced weak in the world. Now in the world it is believed that this plane is really weak and is simply an element of Russian propaganda. Well, with this development of events, we will lose this information battle.
Therefore, it would be worth once again thinking before anyone selling it today.

[Julius Caesar]

Better underestimate it.
However, it is neither hot nor cold for us - all the same, the Su-57 entering the Russian Air Force in quantities exceeding symbolic is expected at about the same time as unicorns in the Buryat armored cavalry ...

[Eduard Egorov]

For example, as it was in Vietnam or Korea, not only planes and pilots decide, but also space reconnaissance, ground, air, and so on, can be taken into the trap and cut the whole world off that a fighter is bad. It’s bad that ours are not doing this, in Syria what chance to drop f35 and f22 onto the ground. These aircraft must be compared on equal terms, and not because Iraq has great superiority in everything, especially intelligence, and this is the most important thing, no matter what technique is perfect, there is no intelligence, so you lost.

[EvilLion]

Korea - there are a lot of Soviet planes with Soviet pilots, the MiG-15 and F-86 frequent departures from fights with each other, simply because the MiGs do not need it, and the advantages of this or that machine were in different high-speed ranges, which both sides quickly occupied. Result? Essentially Pat. And it is clear that the alignment could change dramatically for some time, if one of the sides rolled out a more powerful aircraft.

Vietnam - few Soviet planes with Vietnamese pilots. Perhaps sometimes Li Si Tsyna. Result? The Americans didn’t solve episodic shots by the Vietnamese, against the background of missiles and MZA.

[EvilLion]

When you have a squadron of fighters, and the enemy has hundreds, the strategy does not matter.

[Nycomed]

"Thicker", always with a neighbor!

[Piramidon]

Quote: Nycomed

"Thicker", always with a neighbor!

But, judging by such statements, the Chinese do not think so. They say that they are thicker than their neighbor - Russia.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: NEXUS

... But ... the main parameter of a fighter is a pilot and most of the effectiveness of a fighter depends on the pilot.

Everything has changed, for fifth-generation aircraft, pilot skill is not so important. In modern aerial combat, the one with the most powerful computer on board will win.

[Herman 4223]

Between themselves, not individual planes fight, but air armies. The organization and strength of these armies play a decisive role in victory. Aircraft can be worse, and an army can be stronger.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Herman 4223

Between themselves, not individual planes fight, but air armies. The organization and strength of these armies play a decisive role in victory ...

The Germans had the best organization in the army, but they lost both world ones. Victory is forged not so much in the air or on the ground, as in design centers and manufacturing enterprises. Who has better technology, more development and modernization costs, he will win.

[Voyager]

You want to say that the German war industry was sagging?

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Voyager

You want to say that the German war industry was sagging?

Of course sagged. There were some successful breakthroughs, say in tank building in the 2nd World War, a panther, a tiger, but in general they were inferior. The Allies were technologically stronger, and the total qualitative and quantitative superiority in the air and at sea greatly facilitated their tasks in land operations.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Andrey Andreev_4

The Allies were technologically stronger, and total qualitative and quantitative superiority

I can not completely agree with you. The technological superiority as a whole was among the Germans. Quantitatively, yes they lost. They were simply bombed into gravel. They did not have strategic depth for defense.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

I can not completely agree with you. The technological superiority as a whole was among the Germans. Quantitatively, yes they lost. They were simply bombed into gravel. They did not have strategic depth for defense.

All wrong! Just the technological superiority of the Allies helped them to increase the production of weapons and ammunition in the shortest possible time. Both the Germans and the Japanese were powerless against high-speed high-altitude bombers, fighters, attack aircraft with powerful cannon weapons. Their heavy cruisers, submarines in surface position were easily found in the fog, at night by allied ships and aircraft with radar.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Andrey Andreev_4

All wrong! Just the technological superiority of the Allies helped them to increase in the shortest possible time

They increased production because there was an extensive resource base, plus a powerful industry located far from the theater. This time.
Two, when the Germans were already firing at FAU-1 and FAU-2 all over London and the British and Americans only dreamed about missiles. About the same with jet aircraft.
I'm not talking about tanks, submarines and much more.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

..... when the Germans were already firing at FAU-1 and FAU-2 in London and the British and Americans only dreamed about missiles .....

Did these FAAs surrender to you that you were so impressed with them? The Germans could not get any advantages in the war from their use. Several thousand dead British, a couple of hundreds of destroyed houses and not a single destroyed military facility, factory, that's all the results of the FAA shooting in Britain. But the Anglo-Saxons, thanks to their technologies, built tens of thousands of high-altitude, high-speed bombers and burned all the major industrial areas of Germany, bombed many military facilities, ships, tanks, killed hundreds of thousands of military and civil Germans.

[mister-red]

That's just the point, that only V-2. Nothing more was used of German technology.
Tanks? Did someone copy the Tiger or take it as a basis?
Me-262? Who continued the idea?

[Eduard Egorov]

Superiority in technology, not only polishing equipment with diamond blades, but also ease of operation and low cost of production, despite the fact that the equipment is at the same level, the Germans, for example, spoke well about Soviet tanks, and do not forget that many countries helped Germany, produced weapons and ammunition for them , even the Americans had built a lot for them, and provided money, and not because we were on Lend Liz’s side, and also fought on the side of Germany, it is a mistake to say that the whole world fought against Germany, and who stamped on who it was. Yes, and even the Germans put Soviet guns on their tanks believed that they were the best.

[Gogia]

[/ Quote]
Of course sagged. There were some successful breakthroughs, say in tank building in the 2nd World War, a panther, a tiger, but in general they were inferior. The allies were technologically stronger, and the total qualitative and quantitative superiority in air and sea greatly facilitated their tasks in land operations. [/ Quote]
I read you Andreev and wonder, what are you talking about?
Jet aircraft in the series, V-1 and V-2, aircraft engines, the first stealth technologies - stealth from radars, guided air-to-surface missiles and much more - all this was developed by the Germans, and the Americans then used the reserve for a long time, like our specialists.

[Sky]

Quote: Gogia

guided air-to-surface missiles

as well as the first guided air defense missiles ... Already something, and the Germans had a technological advantage without a doubt.

[Dmitry Bolotsky]

I read the thread of answers to you, Andrei. You are absolutely right! To everyone who opposes you, I can say one thing - if a person does not understand the difference between technology and manufacturability, a dispute is useless. The Germans invent and implement a lot. Dot. They know how to bring the idea to the end. Dot. The question is, how technologically do they come up with and bring to the end? And the control word here is logic. Here they have problems forever. Bismarck, whom they revere sacredly, bequeathed to them not to even look closely at the Russians. The logic in his statements is the same - Russians can be defeated only by destroying them all. Which is impossible. Nevertheless, they popped up, lost half of the male population. And on the topic, you fat plus! To invent and implement is not even half, this is a tenth of the case. But to create something that will be riveted at any tractor plant (of course I’m exaggerating), and any (almost a few lessons) tractor driver will ride on this - this is technological effectiveness. About FAA - well, yes, they came up with, well, yes, they threw something ... But they couldn’t apply normally. Why? Yes, do not run ahead of the engine. History must be taught. Some hundred and a few years ago, the emperor of all France (I specially write with a small one) already made an attempt. The result is obvious. Do not scatter on the parquet if you are very drunk ...
Now for technology. The Germans have not been corrected to this day. Technology beyond. But their materiel (in terms of cars) must be studied carefully so as not to have problems on our roads. I have been using AUDI for many years, many different models. I clearly know several technological nodes of this car, which I immediately redo for myself to avoid problems in the future. This applies to fuel supply, brakes, gearbox control, engine cooling, air suspension adjustment, placement of control units and much more on the little things. In short - AUDI for a normal kid - the same designer for adults (as in Soviet times, the 41st Muscovite). And why? Yes, damn it, because you can insure the node, duplicate it, but not four times, and sometimes five times. As a result, the sensor of the second duplication system beeps or signals, I twitch, check, and the main system is in order - IT IS NECESSARY TO CHANGE THE SENSOR OF THE SECOND DUPLICATION SYSTEM! SHE IS ALSO ORDERED! Fine? Therefore, the conclusion is that cool technology is nothing compared to cool technology!
PySy. To begin with, let them try to build a plane out of wood. By the way - air plywood is a gorgeous, technological and technological invention of Russians, which the whole world uses today.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Dmitry Bolotsky

....You are absolutely right! To everyone who opposes you, I can say one thing - if a person does not understand the difference between technology and manufacturability, a dispute is useless ....

Thank you, Dmitry, for your understanding. This is exactly how I relate to the work of the designer, developer. Any designed part / assembly / device must be manufactured taking into account existing production technologies, be simple and adaptable. Then, for its manufacture, assembly and adjustment, a minimum of effort will be required and specialists with higher education and golden hands will not be in demand, and the product itself will be distinguished by a low price, high reliability and low cost of operation.

[Airmedved]

Who has 4 cores, who has 8? It is not the computer that shoots, the pilot is shooting.

[VO3A]

Of course, the Su-57 cannot be compared with the F-35, so it must be noted that countries that have a request for a modern fighter with high performance and capabilities will not buy a Russian aircraft.

A very superficial and incorrect conclusion .... The export version of the Su-57 surpasses not only Chinese crafts, but also any F35 sold by pyndos to any country .... F35 is strong only in complex US information systems, as their element, because in this case it enters into this system, which creates certain advantages ... Without this system, a separate F35 aircraft, to put it mildly, does not exceed the Su -57 ... So, without F35 entering the American network-centric system, providing for the exchange of information between participants, interaction and joint target designation, the F35 is a mediocre aircraft and did not stand with the Su-57 ...

[meandr51]

Therefore, the manufacturer who provides the best flight training will win.

[Pariv]

This holds true if both competitors go head-to-head one on one. But the F-35 won't go to a fight alone and are not sold to all-comers as Russia would the SU-57

[Archon]

The US can sell India's F35 planes if it wants to. There were already two sentences. And Pakistan is able to buy Russian or Chinese 5-generation aircraft. And since the armies are very strange both in India and in Pakistan, everything is possible.

[self-propelled]

chickens, do not count ... only one question - have you learned how to make engines for china-stealth in China? ah whether we buy from the "losing" side (the one that the Su-57 does) ?!

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: self-propelled

.. just one question - have you learned how to do stealth engines in China? ah whether we buy from the "losing" side (the one that the Su-57 does) ?!

The Su-57 also does not have stealth engines. Judging by the media, the production and testing dates for the second stage engines are constantly being postponed.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Andrey Andreev_4

The Su-57 also does not have stealth engines.

It's not just about stealth, as you say to the engine. The Chinese, in principle, today do not have their own engine with comparable characteristics, even in comparison with the first stage Su57 dvigol.
And the engine, as you know, is the decisive thing.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

It's not just about stealth, as you say to the engine. The Chinese, in principle, today do not have their own engine with comparable characteristics, even in comparison with the first stage Su57 dvigol.
And the engine, as you know, is the decisive thing.

The Chinese did not have much before. And now we are buying from them microchips, materials for the electronics industry, measuring equipment, machine tools, cars, equipment for oil exploration and production ...
I think the issues with engines are a matter of time for them, and in the near future.
The Chinese analogue of the Su-30, J16, by the way, flies with a radio sight with an antenna using modern AFAR technology, and we still have not received any serial fighter such a thing.

[Airmedved]

I think that in the near future the Chinese will not have a competitive engine. They do not have a production culture. Their whole "culture" is to copy something, change two letters in the name, pass it off as their own.

[missuris]

correction, we buy from the Chinese Taiwanese and Korean microcircuits, manufactured on Japanese and European equipment and developed in Europe, America, Korea and Japan. The Chinese are only now pumping their Chinese electronics intensively by purchasing, developing and stealing technologies. Chinese chips will be purchased in about 2030.

[mister-red]

You forget that we buy microcircuits from them, because the USA placed production there. And much more
But with what they did not post, they have big problems.
And by the way, not only with aircraft engines. You think from a good life they send their astronauts on virtually heptyl ballistic missiles. Their ship is a dopped Union. We don’t talk about the spacesuit at all, they slammed clean.
By the way, they did not notice, the Chinese visited outer space for the last time 3 years ago - October 16, 2016. And Russia sends 4 ships every year.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

I will tell you the microcircuits we buy from the Chinese are not American, but the Chinese developed and manufactured. And they already produce equipment for the production of microcircuits. And we bought an American plant ten years ago and still do not know what to do with it.
About space. I’m somehow not sure that we can now begin the exploration of the moon, and the Chinese flew this year.

[mister-red]

In general, they did not catch the point. They made American microcircuits and slowly localized them, or rather forced the Americans to do it. Further grove. If they did not have these production facilities, they would be at the level of Russia and maybe worse.

[region58]

Quote: Andrey Andreev_4

The Chinese analogue of the Su-30, J16, by the way, flies with a radio sight with an antenna using modern AFAR technology, and we still have not received any serial fighter such a thing.

You see ... if you think that any radar with AFAR is a priori better than any radar with AFAR, then you are very mistaken. If you start to compare not commercials but specific numbers, everything may turn out to be not so rosy, moreover, in many cases the use of radar with a slot antenna array will be justified. This is if we ignore the cost of products. But in real life, you won’t run away from the price either, you have to consider ...

[Civil]

While there is no engine, all these are empty words, Chinese comrades.

[Zhan]

Quote: svp67

Normal competition. When one of the parties is simply trying to lure buyers to itself. Our KLA specialists will have to work hard to win the fight.

Again the spears are broken whose scrap is bigger and thicker ..
Time will tell, you just have to hold a pair of Chinese and our hawks. But our Chinese comrades will not agree? For some reason I'm sure of it

[Fantazer911]

Yeah, sschssss, enough drone broken by children

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: svp67

Normal competition. When one of the parties is simply trying to lure buyers to itself. Our KLA specialists will have to work hard to win the fight.

Yeah. China has dumping, buying aircraft constructors in bunches, gigantic production facilities and copyright. To do this, you need a lot of strong money and they are. And we have only first-class brains, ingenuity, raw materials and energy. An equal sign is possible for some time, and then alas .... Production needs to be built, and we close the training of turner-milling workers with 2025-2030, we will breed science fiction writers.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Mavrikiy

first-class brains, savvy

Leaking to the West and to the same China. How many brains will want to work for zp 25-40k rubles ?!

Quote: Mavrikiy

raw materials and energy

This is not with us, it is with a handful of oil companies led by friends of the president.

Quote: Mavrikiy

An equal sign is possible for some time, and then alas ....

Yes, there is no equal sign. See the volume of the Chinese economy and the pace of their development and compare with ours.

[Mavrikiy]

An equal sign is possible for some time, and then alas ....
Yes, there is no equal sign. See the volume of the Chinese economy and the pace of their development and compare with ours.

You are distracted by liberal crap. It was about quality.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Mavrikiy

You are distracted by liberal crap. It was about quality.

According to materialism: "quality is determined by quantity." The one who has more engineers, programmers, workers, money in the treasury will be ahead. China confidently bypasses Russia in science and technology and has already bypassed Russia in many areas.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Andrey Andreev_4

Quote: Mavrikiy

You are distracted by liberal crap. It was about quality.

According to materialism: "quality is determined by quantity." The one who has more engineers, programmers, workers, money in the treasury will be ahead. China here confidently bypasses and in many areas has already bypassed Russia.

I beg your pardon, but .... You either did not study well, or you were taught new programs.
The law of transition of quantitative changes in quality. The quantity itself is crap and cannot determine anything, because the Chinese are nervous. All conditions are there, but thoughts (souls) are not. So they do not get a stone flower.

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Mavrikiy

.... The quantity itself is crap and can not determine anything, because the Chinese are nervous. All conditions are there, but thoughts (souls) are not. So they do not get a stone flower.

The Chinese are never nervous and should not tease themselves with bouts of chauvinism in relation to this great nation. They already have everywhere high-speed trains of their own production run, and we design double-decker cars and shake in them along the old wretched piece of iron, like a hundred years ago.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The quantity itself is crap and cannot determine anything, because the Chinese are nervous.

The Chinese are gradually improving their quality, including by attracting foreign specialists, including from Russia.

[lukewarm]

Quote: Mavrikiy

It was about quality.

Is it about the fact that the MiG-35 on the MAX lost the skin?

[telobezumnoe]

Well, tell us what quality products it is worth paying attention to, produced in Russia? if you consider the civilian market .. the military, although I have the opportunity to probe but I will refrain from commenting

[carstorm 11]

let them not be shut! but they change the training program and the name to fit modern requirements. For example, it’s not a turner but a lathe operator or something else. read the texts carefully and to the end in the original source and not by the title of the article make a conclusion.

[Avior]

Yes. not a plasterer-finisher, but a spatula and trowel operator

[Zhan]

Quote: Avior

Yes. not a plasterer-finisher, but a spatula and trowel operator

Hit the top ten ...

[Barmal]

Yes, yes, not a laborer, but a supervisor of a lower technological level.

[Mestny]

They do not care. There would be a reason to shout about power.
Some simply yell - ahhh, they again deceived us, others sharpen a nostalgic snot on Soviet education half a century ago, recalling school childhood with a file and a hammer.
The fact that outside the window is the 21st century, and one file is not enough for them.

[telobezumnoe]

what brains? here are those who master the loot and do what is more profitable to him, and not the best
. and so at all stages of management, including in the PC

[Errr]

Chinese users, commenting on this material, noted that the country's authorities themselves are extremely reluctant to export modern aviation equipment.

And I want and pricks and my mother does not order.)))

[Mestny]

Maybe the fact is that these modern tools are not so modern?

[Errr]

So I’m talking about this.) It’s pricking because, in fact, a super-duper fighter may not meet the declared characteristics. This is essentially a cat in a poke.)

[Tusv]

You think that the Su-57 is doing the unthinkable in the sky, but our avionics is better, say the Chinese. But in vain with avionics, over-maneuverability, thrust-weight ratio and weapons everything is in order. Will make your j-20 really fast, even with a first stage engine

[Mavrikiy]

In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57

Hey, who spoke about the adequacy of the Chinese and the possibility of concluding an equal treaty with them? The navels of the earth, stare at the navel and the whole world ...

[armata_armata]

Chinese users, commenting on this material, noted that the country's authorities themselves are extremely reluctant to export modern aircraft

Well, they sell the latest technology over the hill?

[edeligor]

Criteria for "perfect design"? Bullshit! For what purposes to use the aircraft? It is up to the customer to decide - to break through the air defense - the F-35, to gain air superiority - you will not find better than ours. And to pout from the importance, they say, avionics and the type of stealth technology are better, so it is very, kind of softer, debatable.

[Vasyan1971]

and therefore "you need to compete."

Therefore, first you need to smear a competitor with something, at least unfounded, and then, how it goes ...

Of course, the Su-57 cannot be compared with the F-35, so it must be noted that countries that have a request for a modern fighter with high performance and capabilities will not buy a Russian aircraft.

[Lord of the Sith]

The complacency of throwing poop on a plane that they know nothing about?
Something this hysteria is frequent, they say the Chinese planes are the best in the world. Oh well

[Pathos]

Quite right, even the Chinese often threw excrement on the turbine blades

[rocket757]

Kulik is a swamp, that’s understandable.
But here's how to compare, what to compare, really, they don’t give and are not going at all !!!
In short, round with square!
Besides, a real comparison, it should be a real confrontation !!! Fighting or performing similar tasks / actions ..... who and how will turn out to be more effective!
In general, empty scribble.

[Mountain shooter]

This gnarled plane, resembling a cuttlefish, J-20, to compare with our handsome man? This is a direct violation of the rule - "A beautiful plane flies well"! And with avionics, radar, etc. and how do they know about them?
And about "invisibility" - you can write anything you want. All this depends so much on what is being "watched" at, at what frequencies, and how "intently"

[Airmedved]

What can be said especially new in on-board electronics? In radar, OEPS, SPG / CDS, communication systems, STR and REP? Fundamentally, there will be nothing new in them. And all sorts of sensory bells and whistles fly off in battle like husks, showing their non-viability.

[Pathos]

J 20 Peking lame duck unparalleled in the world Stupidly ripped off (copy-paste) from the instant, Eurofighter may have something from flu and a mirage. Well, the stump from Fu 22-35 is clear. But the Chinese engineers did not stop there and went further and created an aircraft carrier that had no analogues in the world. It starts to alarm that the Chinese began to shout, which has no analogues in the world ?! Doesn’t resemble anything? Or try to blow into the same pipe?

[Herman 4223]

What is the Chinese invisibility, the glider is the largest reflective element of the aircraft. In the Su-57, it is clearly better thought out in terms of stealth. Look at the J20, the tail at the bottom is just an angular reflector, and the main wing has a broken shape, and this again is the same.

[Nikolaevich I]

Ash-tree stump .... an old song with a Chinese accent: I went to the fair of coop-coupe ... coop-coupe-shiibko young!

[Svetlana]

"Each frog praises its swamp" (c)
And we, on this resource, will also never say that the Chinese ray of Russian :)

[Pathos]

Of course not. Ours in the air, he gets up and how somersaults everyone looks with open mittens. Americans and Chinese flying irons

[Alex_You]

At MAX, even did not impress. And it feels like there is only one Bogdan for demonstrations.

[Pathos]

Well, Bogdan, as it were, the hero of Russia, for a start Gagarin, too, as if for a smile 1m sent And let's put the tractor driver Fedya behind the joystick and interview him about how he chopped cabbage in the sky on a dryer !!!! In scream will If you are impressed with flying irons, well, then someone likes it. I also don’t like Yap cars, although they are reliable, high-quality and the interior is pleasant, but for me they are canned goods, which are like the moon before the German automobile industry. A beautiful plane should fly beautifully and to the bulb of avionics and stealth. The MiG 25 could finally fly on lamps and the Americans saw their light in the age of semiconductors and even as they flew, all Israeli aviation chased after him, lifted into the air everything that flies and, in principle, cannot fly and the air defense could not bring him down. So sorry, but in aviation the winner is the one who quickly enters the enemy in the rear hemisphere i.e. in the tail and whatever they say, but attacks on the opposite courses are always unlikely, if the Germans were reluctant to even go head-on into the war, then at present the current technology is unlikely to hit the Lavochkins.

[Alex_You]

Your nickname is fully consistent with the above.

[Pathos]

If you can fend off, and anyone can throw manure on the fan. If you wanted to insult did not work

[Andrey Andreev_4]

Quote: Alex_You

At MAX, even did not impress ...

That's just the opposite. I liked the Su-57, it flies in a completely different way. Su-30 and Su-35 are like dung beetles compared to it.

[Al Asad]

Every sandpiper praises its nest

[Fedor Sokolov]

The Chinese, as always, will try to fill up the arms market with cheap mass stamping, advertising it as something exclusive and perfect, but in fact the PRC uses the good old Soviet aircraft engines, time-tested, in their exclusives, well maybe slightly improved with the new electronic control system. China does not wait until the SU-57 with the second stage engines begins to be introduced to get as close as possible, it’s even possible to buy a small amount of 57's, which means that the Chinese have big problems creating their own engines for 5 generation aircraft .

[vic02]

The PRC is waiting for it to wait until the release of the SU-57 with the engines of the second stage begins, in order to get to know them as close as possible

Selling product-30 engines to China, if it happens, will be treason. Hindus can still be sold, but without access inside.

[cniza]

As a result, it is argued that the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics. And when did you manage to compare in business?

A good question is who, when and where compared.

[vic02]

By implementing reduced visibility, modeling tools have long been compared. https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2012-03.html https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html

[K-50]

the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics.

About the saying about sandpiper and swamp, everyone knows.

[Sniper]

I never thought that the MiG 1.44 glider manufactured in the 1980 of the last century. will be better than the plane of the 21 century .. the Chinese are strange)

[telobezumnoe]

in my opinion the most beautiful airplane of all that I saw .. sorry not to fly

[Runx135]

And in my opinion a rare freak.

[Rostislav]

Unwise propaganda of their technique by the Chinese. In a scornful assessment of the SU-57, the penguins were almost surpassed. And the first rule of an advertiser says: "You cannot scold a competitor, you must praise your own."

[ultra]

It is a pity that the opportunity to minus articles was removed. This kind of "analysis" is from this very place.

[Zaurbek]

The main idea is that a Western client with money is closed to China and the Russian Federation in terms of buying fighter jets. And we will compete with China. And with the F-35 in India.
How did they begin to compare the design? What is known about the Su57 electronics?

[Felix]

And the J-20 and FC-31 avionics are more advanced than the Su-57

2 sims, a calculator and mp-3 player, I hope you didn’t forget to add?

[yehat]

Quote: NEXUS

Most fighter efficiency depends on the pilot.

this is no longer the case. for example, a very visible place f-22 flight range without hanging tanks the US is actively leveled by tankers. They also use a large number of auxiliary aircraft - AWACS, electronic warfare, aircraft - baits. A separate topic is the availability of modern missiles and other ammunition in warehouses, as well as resources for raid and manning.
One must nevertheless clearly understand what proportion of the combat potential a pilot makes and not exaggerate it.

[yehat]

Quote: Sniper

I never thought that the MiG 1.44 glider manufactured in the 1980 of the last century. will be better than the plane of the 21 century .. the Chinese are strange)

Still, the J-20 is not a moment. He has a radically different electronics, new housing coating technologies.
the project - yes, of those times, but even the engines are already much better, although China is one of the weakest places.

[EvilLion]

Do you know what kind of beast engines were on the MiG-1.44? The Chinese never dreamed of anything like this. There are other engines on the Su-57, simply because the monsters developed for the 1.44 were too big.

[yehat]

the air intakes are usually clearly visible which engines

[EvilLion]

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/АЛ-41Ф

You would have determined the EPR from the photograph.

[yehat]

jokes jokes, but the power of the phantom and su-27 engines is clearly visible from them
You don’t even need to look at the performance characteristics of engines.
EPR is a complex indicator, it is not so easy to evaluate.

[D16]

Do you know what kind of beast engines were on the MiG-1.44?

AL-41 were there. Al-41f1 its modification.

[D16]

WS15, which are in development, that is, in fact which are not yet known when they will be, better than the AL-41, which are adopted and produced in series?

[yehat]

Quote: Andrey Andreev_4

The Germans had the best organization in the army, but they lost both world ones.

Firstly, England literally dragged into the German war. They did not need this, and the numbers were, to put it mildly, not on the side of the Germans, and strategic prerequisites. they had only one hope for a blitzkrieg.
the second world question is somewhat more complicated - Hitler himself kept his state from achieving obvious strategic advantages and for some reason began to fight against the USSR.
If you have a platoon, and a regiment is defending, the organization somehow will not really help.

[ZVS]

You can approve anything. Only the Su-57 took part in the hostilities already, and the Chinese only PR their invisibility. The Su-57 has prospects in the Indian market and the Malaysian, while China has the country Yu.-V. Asia will not buy airplanes. Is that Pakistan. Only he has no money for these bells and whistles.

[yehat]

Quote: SU

You can approve anything. Only the Su-57 took part in the hostilities already, and the Chinese only PR their invisible

Yes, in China, too, work does not stand still
2 J-20 squadrons are already operational. Do not forget that China is a more closed information country.
On the eastern border of India, flying J-20s have already been detected several times. (although to be honest I don’t understand how the Indians identified them on the radar, maybe a raven in foil or UAV flew there)

[Mentat]

Quote: Voyager

Now in the world it is believed that this plane is really weak and is simply an element of Russian propaganda.

Who is considered? Give at least one single example of a well-known publication or site where the Su-57 is described as "really weak."

I can tell you in advance, nowhere in the world is this aircraft considered weak. And you seem to have posted a whole long post for the sake of this single phrase, to hide it in the text.

[lucul]

In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57

Pffff ...
The electronic base is better yes, I do not argue, but the software part of the Russian is better.

[Grigory_78]

Quote: Svetlana

"Each frog praises its swamp" (c)
And we, on this resource, will also never say that the Chinese ray of Russian :)

We can say when the reasons for this will be. So far there is no such reason from the word at all. You can make out the points, but judging by the layout, data on the engines and other things, the J-20 loses the Su-57 in its current form and in maneuverability, and in stealth, and in thrust-weight ratio, and in equipment.
At the same time, the Chinese are investing much more money in the development of new radars, missiles, engines and other things, in the training of engineering and scientific personnel and not the fact that a new version of the J-20 will not appear soon, which will not lose the Su-57 so clearly, or maybe in some ways and surpass it.

[ezdiumno ru]

Funny, funny, considering that the J-20 is essentially a copy of the Mig-1.44 - prototype aircraft of the 90s.

[yehat]

Quote: Gregory_78

At the same time, the Chinese are investing much more money in the development of new radars, missiles, engines and other things, in the training of engineering and scientific personnel and not the fact that a new version of the J-20 will not appear soon, which will not lose the Su-57 so clearly, or maybe in some ways and surpass it.

money is not everything
The main thing that the Chinese do is finance projects, bringing them to results.
that's what allows them to catch up. For 25 years, the Russian Federation has been dynamically financing the work on AFAR,
and the Chinese, although slowly, were able to advance in this area.
But with the frames there, it's pretty sad. It is very difficult for physics to enter the heads with Confucianism. In the east, only very narrow skills are well mastered, and a wide education stalls. That is why their technique resembles Frankenstein, who collected solutions from different designs of others. China spends a lot of effort on education and training, but so far the results are not very good.
They are saved only by the production base of electronics - developments in this area are very affordable

[yehat]

Quote: Mentat

Who is considered? Give at least one single example of a well-known publication or site where the Su-57 is described as "really weak."

weapons program. GPV 2018-2025
look at the number of cars ordered. If this is strength, then what is weakness?
Before you argue, I will announce that on December 2, in 2009, Putin said that the PAK FA will begin to arrive in units in 2013. Now is the year 2019. Still not in service, at least a few cars are already on the balance sheet. In Syria, a prototype was not adopted for service, and only for testing and testing.
At the same time, I would like to remind you that while the United States already has about 22 cars at the F-35 + F800 airfields. Yes, they are raw and not very suitable, but already there. And about 1600 f-35s will be made at 4 plants in the coming years.

[Ilya Melnov]

Quote: yehat

Yes, they are raw and not very suitable, but already there. And about 1600 f-35s will be made at 4 plants in the coming years.

raw ?? Do not tell, F22 has been a military vehicle for more than a dozen years, the engines are generally just several times better in terms of reliability and resource than what is in Russia, and the F35 has already gone through three modifications of software and several improvements, and performs combat missions on a regular basis. Rumors of dampness are, to say the least, obsolete.

[EvilLion]

If this is strength, then what is weakness?
Before you argue, I will announce that on December 2 in the 2009 year, Putin said that the PAK FA will begin to arrive in units in the 2013 year. now is 2019 year

Putin didn’t say anything like that. For those who are especially unfamiliar with aviation, I remind you that the first orders for the Su-57 appeared 8 years after the first flight, the F-22 took the same path from the first flight to the series, and the simpler MiG-29 in the USSR with infinite resources for the army from the first flight to the 5 series of years. Su-xnumx longer. You do not understand the question, so at least do not lie about Putin.

[pafegosoff]

Who would doubt that?
After all, the Chinese invented TsAGI and Zhukovsky.
Who are they going to sell their creations?
"Kozyulsky you are not on Privoz! This is United State, after all, America!"

[shoroh]

The Chinese are funny. There are no invisibles, well, how long can this be replicated ....

[Diesel66]

What kind of export, what are you talking about? There are 10 of these dryers in total, it is planned to "serially" produce one per year. One, this is so much 1. This is not for you to drill a hole in the ground, which will pay off in the first year. Or sell booze ...

[EvilLion]

76 Already contracted, go down.
And yes, extracting oil is much more difficult than just drilling a hole, this is a very complicated process. But for someone who himself did not work, everything seems trifling.

[Diesel66]

What are you saying, but I already thought I had drilled holes with a gas drill and here you have oil and gas and the sky in diamonds. Contracted does not mean done. The armies of Shoigu Petrovich do not need airplanes, he needs to finish building the temple for the first time. And then in general no weapons will be needed ....

[EvilLion]

Remember, the Chinese built at least one usable radar? Why did they get that if they rivet iPhones for the United States, they can make military electronics? These are different things. J-20 is an analogue of the F-22, made according to the aerodynamic design of the 80-s with Russian engines also from the 80-s. Against the background of the Su-57 with its bomb bombs for placement of large-sized ASPs (and stealth is needed for this in the first place), aerodynamics licked, engines that give even now in combat modes traction parity with F-22, watching antennas in all directions, the J-20 is just ridiculous. I doubt that it is competitive even against Su-35. The Chinese military themselves, apparently, also think so, because they bought the Su-35, otherwise their own crafts based on the licensed Su-27 do not fly everywhere.

[yehat]

Quote: EvilLion

You do not understand the question, so at least do not lie about Putin.

watch the video when he came to Sukhoi to the factory.
date is known. there he was talking about the price and said a lot of things.

[yehat]

Quote: lucul

Pffff ...
The electronic base is better yes, I do not argue, but the software part of the Russian is better.

You know, every Chinese BMP now has a bunch of electronics and software written by the Chinese.
but we have nothing of the kind. So I would refrain from speaking highly until a real comparison.
Yes, we have more cool specialists who can in theory create more advanced algorithms, but they do not solve everything, far from everything!
see how our "specialists" make tactical information exchange systems for the navy and army
it’s impossible to look at it without tears. One window dressing.

[EvilLion]

Fighting module Bakhcha "has become Chinese?

[yehat]

Yes, what does the melon?
overview monitors, a monitor with a map and navigators GPS monitor with tactical information
Duplication of the image from the weapon guidance system and the location of the mechanical drive, thermal imagers
field radio equipment that WORKS and has secure communication channels.
monitor with indications of the state of machine systems.
and much more.
what, we have it in all BMP and armored personnel carriers?

[EvilLion]

The Chinese have our Bakhcha-U on the BMP.

[yehat]

in addition to the melons of the Chinese, cucumbers and watermelons also cost the Chinese
not everything rests on 1 module, this is not the whole machine.

[romb]

If you look at what forces and means China is sending today to the development of a scientific and technical school, it is quite possible that their statements are not so far from the truth. And in ten to fifteen years, they will generally go to a healthy margin in the development and implementation of the latest technologies for the aviation of the future.

[yehat]

Quote: SU

Only the Su-57 took part in hostilities already

oh come on! I really took it. just appeared and that's it.
the Chinese could just as well bombard the Yangtze and Amur with their j-20s.
there will also be "combat" experience