Military Review

In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57

127
The Chinese media publish materials on the export potential of Russian 5 fighters of the Su-57 generation. It is noted that if as early as 3-4 years ago, few people took this aircraft seriously as a new generation combat vehicle in the world, now different countries are showing interest.


In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57


In particular, attention is drawn to the interest in Su-57 from countries such as Malaysia, Turkey and Myanmar. And this, apart from the interest from India, which is minimized, it “flares up” against the background of the understanding that New Delhi has no other options yet. At the same time, Chinese experts note that it is the market of Southeast Asia that may prove to be successful for fighters of the 5 generation of Russian production, and therefore "competition must be made."

SINA Military:

The Su-57 fighter is the first invisible fighter developed by Russia, it competes with the American F-22 fighter. In addition to advanced avionics and powerful rocket arms, the aircraft also has super-maneuverability, which was shown in detail by Russian pilots at the MAKS-2019 air show.

The Chinese media recalls that Russia is traditionally active in the market of Southeast Asia and in terms of the sale of other fighters - to Vietnam, Indonesia, the same Malaysia and Myanmar. At the same time, the following fact is given with obvious regret: Myanmar decided to purchase Russian Yak-130 UBS and simulators for them and refused the Chinese offer.

Next is an attempt to kind of complacency:

Of course, the Su-57 cannot be compared with the F-35, so it must be noted that countries that have a request for a modern fighter with high performance and capabilities will not buy a Russian aircraft. And other countries actually have no choice. They should be considered as a possible customer for the purchase of a fifth-generation fighter, China. We need to actively enter these markets.

As a result, it is argued that the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics. And when did you manage to compare in business?

Chinese users, commenting on this material, noted that the country's authorities themselves are extremely reluctant to export modern funds aviation.
127 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 11 September 2019 07: 06 New
    +3
    Normal competition. When one of the parties is simply trying to lure buyers to itself. Our KLA specialists will have to work hard to win the fight.
    1. Thrall
      Thrall 11 September 2019 07: 23 New
      +47
      As the famous Chinese proverb says, chickens in the fall count smile
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 11 September 2019 08: 26 New
        +15
        As a result, it is argued that the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics. And when did you manage to compare in business?

        If SU-57 goes for export, then after some time, it will meet in an air battle with both F-35 and J-20, in a military conflict of third countries. And just at that moment, everything will become clear, and conversations - “with someone thicker” will end once and for all. But ... the main parameter of a fighter is a pilot and most of the effectiveness of a fighter depends on the pilot.
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 11 September 2019 08: 52 New
          +13
          And here and there. Nothing will become clear as it does not become clear regarding some Soviet fighter jets that were used by other countries and participated in conflicts with a sad outcome for them. There are too many factors, starting with the training of pilots and command, ending with the geographical location, application strategy, the presence of air defense and so on.

          I mean, the story can be repeated again, when in well-planned operations experienced American or Israeli pilots once again take an advantage over the much less skillful, cunning and weak representatives of third countries. As a result, crushing accounts in favor of American fighters and the Su-57, once mediocrely lost in weak hands, will once again be announced weak in the world. Now in the world it is believed that this plane is really weak and is simply an element of Russian propaganda. Well, with this development of events, we will lose this information battle.
          Therefore, it would be worth once again thinking before anyone selling it today.
          1. Julius Caesar
            Julius Caesar 11 September 2019 10: 09 New
            +10
            Better underestimate it.
            However, it is neither hot nor cold for us - all the same, the Su-57 entering the Russian Air Force in quantities exceeding symbolic is expected at about the same time as unicorns in the Buryat armored cavalry ...
          2. Eduard Egorov
            Eduard Egorov 11 September 2019 20: 04 New
            +3
            For example, as it was in Vietnam or Korea, not only planes and pilots decide, but also space reconnaissance, ground, air, and so on, can be taken into the trap and cut the whole world off that a fighter is bad. It’s bad that ours are not doing this, in Syria what chance to drop f35 and f22 onto the ground. These aircraft must be compared on equal terms, and not because Iraq has great superiority in everything, especially intelligence, and this is the most important thing, no matter what technique is perfect, there is no intelligence, so you lost.
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 12 September 2019 07: 46 New
              0
              Korea - there are a lot of Soviet planes with Soviet pilots, the MiG-15 and F-86 frequent departures from fights with each other, simply because the MiGs do not need it, and the advantages of this or that machine were in different high-speed ranges, which both sides quickly occupied. Result? Essentially Pat. And it is clear that the alignment could change dramatically for some time, if one of the sides rolled out a more powerful aircraft.

              Vietnam - few Soviet planes with Vietnamese pilots. Perhaps sometimes Li Si Tsyna. Result? The Americans didn’t solve episodic shots by the Vietnamese, against the background of missiles and MZA.
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 12 September 2019 07: 40 New
            0
            When you have a squadron of fighters, and the enemy has hundreds, the strategy does not matter.
        2. Nycomed
          Nycomed 11 September 2019 08: 55 New
          +3
          "Thicker", always with a neighbor! lol
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 11 September 2019 11: 46 New
            +4
            Quote: Nycomed
            "Thicker", always with a neighbor! lol

            But, judging by such statements, the Chinese do not think so. They say that they are thicker than their neighbor - Russia. laughing
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Andrey Andreev_4
          Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 09: 56 New
          -4
          Quote: NEXUS
          ... But ... the main parameter of a fighter is a pilot and most of the effectiveness of a fighter depends on the pilot.

          Everything has changed, for fifth-generation aircraft, pilot skill is not so important. In modern aerial combat, the one with the most powerful computer on board will win.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 11 September 2019 10: 07 New
            +5
            Between themselves, not individual planes fight, but air armies. The organization and strength of these armies play a decisive role in victory. Aircraft can be worse, and an army can be stronger.
            1. Andrey Andreev_4
              Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 10: 28 New
              -8
              Quote: Herman 4223
              Between themselves, not individual planes fight, but air armies. The organization and strength of these armies play a decisive role in victory ...

              The Germans had the best organization in the army, but they lost both world ones. Victory is forged not so much in the air or on the ground, as in design centers and manufacturing enterprises. Who has better technology, more development and modernization costs, he will win.
              1. Voyager
                Voyager 11 September 2019 11: 21 New
                +2
                You want to say that the German war industry was sagging?
                1. Andrey Andreev_4
                  Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 11: 48 New
                  -7
                  Quote: Voyager
                  You want to say that the German war industry was sagging?

                  Of course sagged. There were some successful breakthroughs, say in tank building in the 2nd World War, a panther, a tiger, but in general they were inferior. The Allies were technologically stronger, and the total qualitative and quantitative superiority in the air and at sea greatly facilitated their tasks in land operations.
                  1. Alexey Sommer
                    Alexey Sommer 11 September 2019 12: 14 New
                    +7
                    Quote: Andrey Andreev_4
                    The Allies were technologically stronger, and total qualitative and quantitative superiority

                    I can not completely agree with you. The technological superiority as a whole was among the Germans. Quantitatively, yes they lost. They were simply bombed into gravel. They did not have strategic depth for defense.
                    1. Andrey Andreev_4
                      Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 13: 06 New
                      -8
                      Quote: Alexey Sommer

                      I can not completely agree with you. The technological superiority as a whole was among the Germans. Quantitatively, yes they lost. They were simply bombed into gravel. They did not have strategic depth for defense.

                      All wrong! Just the technological superiority of the Allies helped them to increase the production of weapons and ammunition in the shortest possible time. Both the Germans and the Japanese were powerless against high-speed high-altitude bombers, fighters, attack aircraft with powerful cannon weapons. Their heavy cruisers, submarines in surface position were easily found in the fog, at night by allied ships and aircraft with radar.
                      1. Alexey Sommer
                        Alexey Sommer 11 September 2019 16: 24 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Andrey Andreev_4
                        All wrong! Just the technological superiority of the Allies helped them to increase in the shortest possible time

                        They increased production because there was an extensive resource base, plus a powerful industry located far from the theater. This time.
                        Two, when the Germans were already firing at FAU-1 and FAU-2 all over London and the British and Americans only dreamed about missiles. About the same with jet aircraft.
                        I'm not talking about tanks, submarines and much more.
                      2. Andrey Andreev_4
                        Andrey Andreev_4 12 September 2019 15: 06 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexey Sommer
                        ..... when the Germans were already firing at FAU-1 and FAU-2 in London and the British and Americans only dreamed about missiles .....

                        Did these FAAs surrender to you that you were so impressed with them? The Germans could not get any advantages in the war from their use. Several thousand dead British, a couple of hundreds of destroyed houses and not a single destroyed military facility, factory, that's all the results of the FAA shooting in Britain. But the Anglo-Saxons, thanks to their technologies, built tens of thousands of high-altitude, high-speed bombers and burned all the major industrial areas of Germany, bombed many military facilities, ships, tanks, killed hundreds of thousands of military and civil Germans.
                      3. mister-red
                        mister-red 12 September 2019 16: 49 New
                        0
                        That's just the point, that only V-2. Nothing more was used of German technology.
                        Tanks? Did someone copy the Tiger or take it as a basis?
                        Me-262? Who continued the idea?
                  2. Eduard Egorov
                    Eduard Egorov 11 September 2019 21: 54 New
                    0
                    Superiority in technology, not only polishing equipment with diamond blades, but also ease of operation and low cost of production, despite the fact that the equipment is at the same level, the Germans, for example, spoke well about Soviet tanks, and do not forget that many countries helped Germany, produced weapons and ammunition for them , even the Americans had built a lot for them, and provided money, and not because we were on Lend Liz’s side, and also fought on the side of Germany, it is a mistake to say that the whole world fought against Germany, and who stamped on who it was. Yes, and even the Germans put Soviet guns on their tanks believed that they were the best.
                2. Gogia
                  Gogia 11 September 2019 15: 23 New
                  +2
                  [/ Quote]
                  Of course sagged. There were some successful breakthroughs, say in tank building in the 2nd World War, a panther, a tiger, but in general they were inferior. The allies were technologically stronger, and the total qualitative and quantitative superiority in air and sea greatly facilitated their tasks in land operations. [/ Quote]
                  I read you Andreev and wonder, what are you talking about?
                  Jet aircraft in the series, V-1 and V-2, aircraft engines, the first stealth technologies - stealth from radars, guided air-to-surface missiles and much more - all this was developed by the Germans, and the Americans then used the reserve for a long time, like our specialists.
                  1. Sky
                    Sky 11 September 2019 21: 33 New
                    0
                    Quote: Gogia
                    guided air-to-surface missiles

                    as well as the first guided air defense missiles ... Already something, and the Germans had a technological advantage without a doubt.
                3. Dmitry Bolotsky
                  Dmitry Bolotsky 12 September 2019 01: 27 New
                  +1
                  I read the thread of answers to you, Andrei. You are absolutely right! To everyone who opposes you, I can say one thing - if a person does not understand the difference between technology and manufacturability, a dispute is useless. The Germans invent and implement a lot. Dot. They know how to bring the idea to the end. Dot. The question is, how technologically do they come up with and bring to the end? And the control word here is logic. Here they have problems forever. Bismarck, whom they revere sacredly, bequeathed to them not to even look closely at the Russians. The logic in his statements is the same - Russians can be defeated only by destroying them all. Which is impossible. Nevertheless, they popped up, lost half of the male population. And on the topic, you fat plus! To invent and implement is not even half, this is a tenth of the case. But to create something that will be riveted at any tractor plant (of course I’m exaggerating), and any (almost a few lessons) tractor driver will ride on this - this is technological effectiveness. About FAA - well, yes, they came up with, well, yes, they threw something ... But they couldn’t apply normally. Why? Yes, do not run ahead of the engine. History must be taught. Some hundred and a few years ago, the emperor of all France (I specially write with a small one) already made an attempt. The result is obvious. Do not scatter on the parquet if you are very drunk ...
                  Now for technology. The Germans have not been corrected to this day. Technology beyond. But their materiel (in terms of cars) must be studied carefully so as not to have problems on our roads. I have been using AUDI for many years, many different models. I clearly know several technological nodes of this car, which I immediately redo for myself to avoid problems in the future. This applies to fuel supply, brakes, gearbox control, engine cooling, air suspension adjustment, placement of control units and much more on the little things. In short - AUDI for a normal kid - the same designer for adults (as in Soviet times, the 41st Muscovite). And why? Yes, damn it, because you can insure the node, duplicate it, but not four times, and sometimes five times. As a result, the sensor of the second duplication system beeps or signals, I twitch, check, and the main system is in order - IT IS NECESSARY TO CHANGE THE SENSOR OF THE SECOND DUPLICATION SYSTEM! SHE IS ALSO ORDERED! Fine? Therefore, the conclusion is that cool technology is nothing compared to cool technology!
                  PySy. To begin with, let them try to build a plane out of wood. By the way - air plywood is a gorgeous, technological and technological invention of Russians, which the whole world uses today. hi
                  1. Andrey Andreev_4
                    Andrey Andreev_4 12 September 2019 14: 45 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Dmitry Bolotsky
                    ....You are absolutely right! To everyone who opposes you, I can say one thing - if a person does not understand the difference between technology and manufacturability, a dispute is useless ....

                    Thank you, Dmitry, for your understanding. This is exactly how I relate to the work of the designer, developer. Any designed part / assembly / device must be manufactured taking into account existing production technologies, be simple and adaptable. Then, for its manufacture, assembly and adjustment, a minimum of effort will be required and specialists with higher education and golden hands will not be in demand, and the product itself will be distinguished by a low price, high reliability and low cost of operation.
        5. Airmedved
          Airmedved 11 September 2019 21: 54 New
          0
          Who has 4 cores, who has 8? It is not the computer that shoots, the pilot is shooting.
      2. VO3A
        VO3A 11 September 2019 16: 10 New
        +2
        Of course, the Su-57 cannot be compared with the F-35, so it must be noted that countries that have a request for a modern fighter with high performance and capabilities will not buy a Russian aircraft.

        A very superficial and incorrect conclusion .... The export version of the Su-57 surpasses not only Chinese crafts, but also any F35 sold by pyndos to any country .... F35 is strong only in complex US information systems, as their element, because in this case it enters into this system, which creates certain advantages ... Without this system, a separate F35 aircraft, to put it mildly, does not exceed the Su -57 ... So, without F35 entering the American network-centric system, providing for the exchange of information between participants, interaction and joint target designation, the F35 is a mediocre aircraft and did not stand with the Su-57 ...
      3. meandr51
        meandr51 11 September 2019 21: 15 New
        0
        Therefore, the manufacturer who provides the best flight training will win.
      4. Pariv
        Pariv 12 September 2019 13: 39 New
        0
        This holds true if both competitors go head-to-head one on one. But the F-35 won't go to a fight alone and are not sold to all-comers as Russia would the SU-57
        1. Archon
          Archon 13 September 2019 07: 31 New
          0
          The US can sell India's F35 planes if it wants to. There were already two sentences. And Pakistan is able to buy Russian or Chinese 5-generation aircraft. And since the armies are very strange both in India and in Pakistan, everything is possible.
    2. self-propelled
      self-propelled 11 September 2019 10: 11 New
      +1
      count, don’t count ... only one question - did you learn to make engines for China-stealth in China? do we buy from the "losing" side (the one that Su-57 does) ?!
      1. Andrey Andreev_4
        Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 10: 33 New
        -4
        Quote: self-propelled
        .. only one question - did you learn to do engines for China-stealth in China? do we buy from the "losing" side (the one that the Su-57 does) ?!

        The Su-57 also does not have stealth engines. Judging by the media, the production and testing dates for the second stage engines are constantly being postponed.
        1. Alexey Sommer
          Alexey Sommer 11 September 2019 12: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Andreev_4
          The Su-57 also does not have stealth engines.

          It's not just about stealth, as you say to the engine. The Chinese, in principle, today do not have their own engine with comparable characteristics, even in comparison with the first stage Su57 dvigol.
          And the engine, as you know, is the decisive thing.
          1. Andrey Andreev_4
            Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 14: 01 New
            -1
            Quote: Alexey Sommer

            It's not just about stealth, as you say to the engine. The Chinese, in principle, today do not have their own engine with comparable characteristics, even in comparison with the first stage Su57 dvigol.
            And the engine, as you know, is the decisive thing.

            The Chinese did not have much before. And now we are buying from them microchips, materials for the electronics industry, measuring equipment, machine tools, cars, equipment for oil exploration and production ...
            I think the issues with engines are a matter of time for them, and in the near future.
            The Chinese analogue of the Su-30, J16, by the way, flies with a radio sight with an antenna using modern AFAR technology, and we still have not received any serial fighter such a thing.
            1. Airmedved
              Airmedved 11 September 2019 21: 48 New
              0
              I think that in the near future the Chinese will not have a competitive engine. They do not have a production culture. Their whole "culture" is to copy something, change two letters in the name, pass off as their own.
            2. missuris
              missuris 11 September 2019 21: 53 New
              +2
              correction, we buy from the Chinese Taiwanese and Korean microcircuits, manufactured on Japanese and European equipment and developed in Europe, America, Korea and Japan. The Chinese are only now pumping their Chinese electronics intensively by purchasing, developing and stealing technologies. Chinese chips will be purchased in about 2030.
            3. mister-red
              mister-red 12 September 2019 16: 56 New
              0
              You forget that we buy microcircuits from them, because the USA placed production there. And much more
              But with what they did not post, they have big problems.
              And by the way, not only with aircraft engines. You think from a good life they send their astronauts on virtually heptyl ballistic missiles. Their ship is a dopped Union. We don’t talk about the spacesuit at all, they slammed clean.
              By the way, they did not notice, the Chinese visited outer space for the last time 3 years ago - October 16, 2016. And Russia sends 4 ships every year.
              1. Andrey Andreev_4
                Andrey Andreev_4 12 September 2019 17: 16 New
                -1
                I will tell you the microcircuits we buy from the Chinese are not American, but the Chinese developed and manufactured. And they already produce equipment for the production of microcircuits. And we bought an American plant ten years ago and still do not know what to do with it.
                About space. I’m somehow not sure that we can now begin the exploration of the moon, and the Chinese flew this year.
                1. mister-red
                  mister-red 15 September 2019 15: 14 New
                  0
                  In general, they did not catch the point. They made American microcircuits and slowly localized them, or rather forced the Americans to do it. Further grove. If they did not have these production facilities, they would be at the level of Russia and maybe worse.
            4. region58
              region58 13 September 2019 21: 33 New
              0
              Quote: Andrey Andreev_4
              The Chinese analogue of the Su-30, J16, by the way, flies with a radio sight with an antenna using modern AFAR technology, and we still have not received any serial fighter such a thing.

              You see ... if you think that any radar with AFAR is a priori better than any radar with AFAR, then you are very mistaken. If you start to compare not commercials but specific numbers, everything may turn out to be not so rosy, moreover, in many cases the use of radar with a slot antenna array will be justified. This is if we ignore the cost of products. But in real life, you won’t run away from the price either, you have to consider ...
  2. Civil
    Civil 11 September 2019 07: 46 New
    +12
    While there is no engine, all these are empty words, Chinese comrades.
  3. Zhan
    Zhan 11 September 2019 07: 52 New
    +5
    Quote: svp67
    Normal competition. When one of the parties is simply trying to lure buyers to itself. Our KLA specialists will have to work hard to win the fight.

    hi
    Again the spears are broken whose scrap is bigger and thicker .. wink
    Time will tell, you just have to hold a pair of Chinese and our hawks. But our Chinese comrades will not agree? smile For some reason I'm sure of it
    1. Fantazer911
      Fantazer911 11 September 2019 08: 21 New
      +3
      Yeah, sschssss, enough drone broken by children
  4. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 11 September 2019 07: 59 New
    +11
    Quote: svp67
    Normal competition. When one of the parties is simply trying to lure buyers to itself. Our KLA specialists will have to work hard to win the fight.

    Yeah. China has dumping, buying aircraft constructors in bunches, gigantic production facilities and copyright. To do this, you need a lot of strong money and they are. And we have only first-class brains, ingenuity, raw materials and energy. An equal sign is possible for some time, and then alas .... Production needs to be built, and we close the training of turner-milling workers with 2025-2030, we will breed science fiction writers.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 11 September 2019 08: 19 New
      +10
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      first-class brains, savvy
      Leaking to the West and to the same China. How many brains will want to work for zp 25-40k rubles ?!
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      raw materials and energy
      This is not with us, it is with a handful of oil companies led by friends of the president.
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      An equal sign is possible for some time, and then alas ....
      Yes, there is no equal sign. See the volume of the Chinese economy and the pace of their development and compare with ours.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 11 September 2019 08: 26 New
        +1
        An equal sign is possible for some time, and then alas ....
        Yes, there is no equal sign. See the volume of the Chinese economy and the pace of their development and compare with ours.
        You are distracted by liberal crap. It was about quality.
        1. Andrey Andreev_4
          Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 10: 01 New
          +7
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          You are distracted by liberal crap. It was about quality.

          According to materialism: "quality is determined by quantity." Who has more engineers, programmers, workers, money in the treasury, he will be ahead. In science and technology, China is confidently bypassing and has already bypassed Russia in many areas.
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 11 September 2019 10: 12 New
            +2
            Quote: Andrey Andreev_4
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            You are distracted by liberal crap. It was about quality.

            According to materialism: "quality is determined by quantity." Who has more engineers, programmers, workers, money in the treasury, he will be ahead. China is confidently getting around here and has already bypassed Russia in many areas.

            I beg your pardon, but .... You either did not study well, or you were taught new programs.
            The law of transition of quantitative changes in quality. The quantity itself is crap and cannot determine anything, because the Chinese are nervous. All conditions are there, but thoughts (souls) are not. So they do not get a stone flower.
            1. Andrey Andreev_4
              Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 10: 50 New
              +3
              Quote: Mavrikiy
              .... The quantity itself is crap and can not determine anything, because the Chinese are nervous. All conditions are there, but thoughts (souls) are not. So they do not get a stone flower.

              The Chinese are never nervous and should not tease themselves with bouts of chauvinism in relation to this great nation. They already have everywhere high-speed trains of their own production run, and we design double-decker cars and shake in them along the old wretched piece of iron, like a hundred years ago.
            2. Greenwood
              Greenwood 11 September 2019 13: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: Mavrikiy
              The quantity itself is crap and cannot determine anything, because the Chinese are nervous.
              The Chinese are gradually improving their quality, including by attracting foreign specialists, including from Russia.
        2. lukewarm
          lukewarm 11 September 2019 11: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          It was about quality.

          Is it about the fact that the MiG-35 on the MAX lost the skin?
        3. telobezumnoe
          telobezumnoe 11 September 2019 12: 24 New
          -2
          Well, tell us what quality products it is worth paying attention to, produced in Russia? if you consider the civilian market .. the military, although I have the opportunity to probe but I will refrain from commenting
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 11 September 2019 08: 25 New
      +5
      let them not be shut! but they change the training program and the name to fit modern requirements. For example, it’s not a turner but a lathe operator or something else. read the texts carefully and to the end in the original source and not by the title of the article make a conclusion.
      1. Avior
        Avior 11 September 2019 08: 57 New
        +12
        Yes. not a plasterer-finisher, but a spatula and trowel operator smile
        1. Zhan
          Zhan 11 September 2019 09: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          Yes. not a plasterer-finisher, but a spatula and trowel operator smile

          hi
          Hit the top ten ... smile
        2. Barmal
          Barmal 11 September 2019 10: 35 New
          +1
          Yes, yes, not a laborer, but a supervisor of a lower technological level.
      2. Mestny
        Mestny 11 September 2019 09: 30 New
        -4
        They do not care. There would be a reason to shout about power.
        Some simply yell - ahhh, they again deceived us, others sharpen a nostalgic snot on Soviet education half a century ago, recalling school childhood with a file and a hammer.
        The fact that outside the window is the 21st century, and one file is not enough for them.
    3. telobezumnoe
      telobezumnoe 11 September 2019 12: 20 New
      -2
      what brains? here are those who master the loot and do what is more profitable to him, and not the best
      . and so at all stages of management, including in the PC
  • Errr
    Errr 11 September 2019 07: 06 New
    +1
    Chinese users, commenting on this material, noted that the country's authorities themselves are extremely reluctant to export modern aviation equipment.
    And I want and pricks and my mother does not order.)))
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 11 September 2019 09: 31 New
      0
      Maybe the fact is that these modern tools are not so modern?
      1. Errr
        Errr 11 September 2019 09: 42 New
        0
        So I’m talking about this.) It’s pricking because, in fact, a super-duper fighter may not meet the declared characteristics. This is essentially a cat in a poke.)
  • Tusv
    Tusv 11 September 2019 07: 11 New
    +6
    You think that the Su-57 is doing the unthinkable in the sky, but our avionics is better, say the Chinese. But in vain with avionics, over-maneuverability, thrust-weight ratio and weapons everything is in order. Will make your j-20 really fast, even with a first stage engine
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 11 September 2019 07: 14 New
    +5
    In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57
    Hey, who spoke about the adequacy of the Chinese and the possibility of concluding an equal treaty with them? The navels of the earth, stare at the navel and the whole world ...
  • armata_armata
    armata_armata 11 September 2019 07: 19 New
    -2
    Chinese users, commenting on this material, noted that the country's authorities themselves are extremely reluctant to export modern aircraft

    Well, they sell the latest technology over the hill?
  • edeligor
    edeligor 11 September 2019 07: 20 New
    +4
    Perfect design criteria? Bullshit! For what purposes to use the aircraft? It is up to the customer to break through the air defense — the F-35, to gain superiority in the air — you won’t find ours better. And pouting on importance, they say avionics and type of stealth technology is better, it is very, as it were softer, debatable.
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 11 September 2019 07: 26 New
    0
    but because "you need to compete."

    Therefore, first you need to smear a competitor with something, at least unfounded, and then, how it goes ...
    Of course, the Su-57 cannot be compared with the F-35, so it must be noted that countries that have a request for a modern fighter with high performance and capabilities will not buy a Russian aircraft.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 11 September 2019 07: 31 New
    +4
    The complacency of throwing poop on a plane that they know nothing about?
    Something this hysteria is frequent, they say the Chinese planes are the best in the world. Oh well laughing
    1. Pathos
      Pathos 11 September 2019 08: 47 New
      +3
      Quite right, even the Chinese often threw excrement on the turbine blades laughing
  • rocket757
    rocket757 11 September 2019 07: 40 New
    +5
    Kulik is a swamp, that’s understandable.
    But here's how to compare, what to compare, really, they don’t give and are not going at all !!!
    In short, round with square!
    Besides, a real comparison, it should be a real confrontation !!! Fighting or performing similar tasks / actions ..... who and how will turn out to be more effective!
    In general, empty scribble.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 11 September 2019 07: 42 New
    +10
    This clumsy cuttlefish reminiscent of the J-20, compare with our handsome? This is a direct violation of the rule - "A beautiful plane flies well!" And with avionics, radar, etc. but how do they know from them?
    And about the "invisibility" - it is generally possible to write anything. All this depends so much on what they’re watching, at what frequencies, and how closely wassat
    1. Airmedved
      Airmedved 11 September 2019 08: 27 New
      -1
      What can be said especially new in on-board electronics? In radar, OEPS, SPG / CDS, communication systems, STR and REP? Fundamentally, there will be nothing new in them. And all sorts of sensory bells and whistles fly off in battle like husks, showing their non-viability.
    2. Pathos
      Pathos 11 September 2019 08: 58 New
      +1
      J 20 Peking lame duck unparalleled in the world laughing Stupidly ripped off (copy-paste) from the instant, Eurofighter may have something from flu and a mirage. Well, the stump from Fu 22-35 is clear. But the Chinese engineers did not stop there and went further and created an aircraft carrier that had no analogues in the world. laughing It starts to alarm that the Chinese began to shout, which has no analogues in the world ?! Doesn’t resemble anything? Or try to blow into the same pipe?
    3. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 11 September 2019 12: 40 New
      +1
      What is the Chinese invisibility, the glider is the largest reflective element of the aircraft. In the Su-57, it is clearly better thought out in terms of stealth. Look at the J20, the tail at the bottom is just an angular reflector, and the main wing has a broken shape, and this again is the same.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 11 September 2019 07: 44 New
    +5
    Ash-tree stump .... an old song with a Chinese accent: I went to the fair of coop-coupe ... coop-coupe-shiibko young!
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 11 September 2019 07: 50 New
    +4
    "Each frog praises its swamp" (c)
    And we, on this resource, will also never say that the Chinese ray of Russian :)
    1. Pathos
      Pathos 11 September 2019 09: 04 New
      0
      Of course not. Ours in the air, he gets up and how somersaults everyone looks with open mittens. Americans and Chinese flying irons laughing
      1. Alex_You
        Alex_You 11 September 2019 10: 20 New
        -1
        At MAX, even did not impress. And it feels like there is only one Bogdan for demonstrations.
        1. Pathos
          Pathos 11 September 2019 10: 54 New
          0
          Well, Bogdan, as it were, the hero of Russia, for a start wink Gagarin, too, as if for a smile 1m sent yes And let's put the tractor driver Fedya behind the joystick and interview him about how he chopped cabbage in the sky on a dryer !!!! In scream will laughing If you are impressed with flying irons, well, then someone likes it. I also don’t like Yap cars, although they are reliable, high-quality and the interior is pleasant, but for me they are canned goods, which are like the moon before the German automobile industry. A beautiful plane should fly beautifully and to the bulb of avionics and stealth. The MiG 25 could finally fly on lamps and the Americans saw their light in the age of semiconductors and even as they flew, all Israeli aviation chased after him, lifted into the air everything that flies and, in principle, cannot fly laughing and the air defense could not bring him down. So sorry, but in aviation the winner is the one who quickly enters the enemy in the rear hemisphere i.e. in the tail and whatever they say, but attacks on the opposite courses are always unlikely, if the Germans were reluctant to even go head-on into the war, then at present the current technology is unlikely to hit the Lavochkins.
          1. Alex_You
            Alex_You 11 September 2019 11: 02 New
            +2
            Your nickname is fully consistent with the above.
            1. Pathos
              Pathos 12 September 2019 09: 04 New
              0
              If you can fend off, and anyone can throw manure on the fan. If you wanted to insult did not work no
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Andrey Andreev_4
          Andrey Andreev_4 11 September 2019 11: 04 New
          -2
          Quote: Alex_You
          At MAX, even did not impress ...

          That's just the opposite. I liked the Su-57, it flies in a completely different way. Su-30 and Su-35 are like dung beetles compared to it.
  • Al Asad
    Al Asad 11 September 2019 07: 53 New
    +1
    Every sandpiper praises its nest
  • Fedor Sokolov
    Fedor Sokolov 11 September 2019 08: 04 New
    0
    The Chinese, as always, will try to fill up the arms market with cheap mass stamping, advertising it as something exclusive and perfect, but in fact the PRC uses the good old Soviet aircraft engines, time-tested, in their exclusives, well maybe slightly improved with the new electronic control system. China does not wait until the SU-57 with the second stage engines begins to be introduced to get as close as possible, it’s even possible to buy a small amount of 57's, which means that the Chinese have big problems creating their own engines for 5 generation aircraft .
    1. vic02
      vic02 11 September 2019 08: 55 New
      +2
      The PRC is waiting for it to wait until the release of the SU-57 with the engines of the second stage begins, in order to get to know them as close as possible
      Selling product-30 engines to China, if it happens, will be treason. Hindus can still be sold, but without access inside.
  • cniza
    cniza 11 September 2019 08: 14 New
    +2
    As a result, it is argued that the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics. And when did you manage to compare in business?


    A good question is who, when and where compared.
    1. vic02
      vic02 11 September 2019 09: 56 New
      0
      By implementing reduced visibility, modeling tools have long been compared. https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2012-03.html https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html
  • K-50
    K-50 11 September 2019 08: 24 New
    0
    the design of the Chinese J-20 and FC-31 is more advanced than that of the Su-57. It is also traditionally added for Chinese experts that the latest Chinese fighters have more efficient stealth technology and avionics.

    About the saying about sandpiper and swamp, everyone knows. yes fellow lol
  • Sniper
    Sniper 11 September 2019 08: 45 New
    +3
    I never thought that the MiG 1.44 glider manufactured in the 1980 of the last century. will be better than the plane of the 21 century .. the Chinese are strange)

    1. telobezumnoe
      telobezumnoe 11 September 2019 12: 47 New
      -2
      in my opinion the most beautiful airplane of all that I saw .. sorry not to fly
      1. Runx135
        Runx135 13 September 2019 05: 09 New
        0
        And in my opinion a rare freak. request
  • Rostislav
    Rostislav 11 September 2019 09: 17 New
    +1
    The stupid propaganda of their technology by the Chinese. In the dismissive assessment of the SU-57 almost penguins were not surpassed. And the first rule of the advertiser says: "You can not scold a competitor, you must praise your own."
  • ultra
    ultra 11 September 2019 09: 26 New
    -1
    It’s a pity that they removed the opportunity to minus articles. This kind of “analytics” is from this very place. wassat
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 11 September 2019 09: 39 New
    0
    The main idea is that a Western client with money is closed to China and the Russian Federation in terms of buying fighter jets. And we will compete with China. And with the F-35 in India.
    How did they begin to compare the design? What is known about the Su57 electronics?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Felix
    Felix 11 September 2019 10: 29 New
    0
    And the J-20 and FC-31 avionics are more advanced than the Su-57

    2 sims, a calculator and mp-3 player, I hope you didn’t forget to add?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • yehat
    yehat 11 September 2019 10: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    Most fighter efficiency depends on the pilot.

    this is no longer the case. for example, a very visible place f-22 flight range without hanging tanks the US is actively leveled by tankers. They also use a large number of auxiliary aircraft - AWACS, electronic warfare, aircraft - baits. A separate topic is the availability of modern missiles and other ammunition in warehouses, as well as resources for raid and manning.
    One must nevertheless clearly understand what proportion of the combat potential a pilot makes and not exaggerate it.
  • yehat
    yehat 11 September 2019 10: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Sniper
    I never thought that the MiG 1.44 glider manufactured in the 1980 of the last century. will be better than the plane of the 21 century .. the Chinese are strange)


    Still, the J-20 is not a moment. He has a radically different electronics, new housing coating technologies.
    the project - yes, of those times, but even the engines are already much better, although China is one of the weakest places.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 12 September 2019 08: 02 New
      +2
      Do you know what kind of beast engines were on the MiG-1.44? The Chinese never dreamed of anything like this. There are other engines on the Su-57, simply because the monsters developed for the 1.44 were too big.
      1. yehat
        yehat 12 September 2019 10: 33 New
        0
        the air intakes are usually clearly visible which engines
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 September 2019 11: 18 New
          0
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/АЛ-41Ф

          You would have determined the EPR from the photograph.
          1. yehat
            yehat 12 September 2019 11: 24 New
            0
            jokes jokes, but the power of the phantom and su-27 engines is clearly visible from them
            You don’t even need to look at the performance characteristics of engines.
            EPR is a complex indicator, it is not so easy to evaluate.
      2. D16
        D16 12 September 2019 18: 15 New
        0
        Do you know what kind of beast engines were on the MiG-1.44?

        AL-41 were there. Al-41f1 its modification.
    2. D16
      D16 12 September 2019 18: 13 New
      0
      WS15, which are in development, that is, in fact which are not yet known when they will be, better than the AL-41, which are adopted and produced in series?
  • yehat
    yehat 11 September 2019 11: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey Andreev_4
    The Germans had the best organization in the army, but they lost both world ones.

    Firstly, England literally dragged into the German war. They did not need this, and the numbers were, to put it mildly, not on the side of the Germans, and strategic prerequisites. they had only one hope for a blitzkrieg.
    the second world question is somewhat more complicated - Hitler himself kept his state from achieving obvious strategic advantages and for some reason began to fight against the USSR.
    If you have a platoon, and a regiment is defending, the organization somehow will not really help.
  • ZVS
    ZVS 11 September 2019 11: 03 New
    0
    You can approve anything. Only the Su-57 took part in the hostilities already, and the Chinese only PR their invisibility. The Su-57 has prospects in the Indian market and the Malaysian, while China has the country Yu.-V. Asia will not buy airplanes. Is that Pakistan. Only he has no money for these bells and whistles.
  • yehat
    yehat 11 September 2019 11: 15 New
    0
    Quote: SU
    You can approve anything. Only the Su-57 took part in the hostilities already, and the Chinese only PR their invisible

    Yes, in China, too, work does not stand still
    2 J-20 squadrons are already operational. Do not forget that China is a more closed information country.
    On the eastern border of India, flying J-20s have already been detected several times. (although to be honest I don’t understand how the Indians identified them on the radar, maybe a raven in foil or UAV flew there)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 11 September 2019 11: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: Voyager
    Now in the world it is believed that this plane is really weak and is simply an element of Russian propaganda.

    Who is considered? Give at least one single example of a well-known publication or site where the Su-57 is described as "really weak."

    I can tell you in advance, nowhere in the world is this aircraft considered weak. And you seem to have posted a whole long post for the sake of this single phrase, to hide it in the text.
  • lucul
    lucul 11 September 2019 12: 07 New
    -3
    In China: The design and avionics of the J-20 and FC-31 are more advanced than those of the Su-57

    Pffff ...
    The electronic base is better yes, I do not argue, but the software part of the Russian is better.
  • Grigory_78
    Grigory_78 11 September 2019 12: 59 New
    -1
    Quote: Svetlana
    "Each frog praises its swamp" (c)
    And we, on this resource, will also never say that the Chinese ray of Russian :)

    We can say when the reasons for this will be. So far there is no such reason from the word at all. You can make out the points, but judging by the layout, data on the engines and other things, the J-20 loses the Su-57 in its current form and in maneuverability, and in stealth, and in thrust-weight ratio, and in equipment.
    At the same time, the Chinese are investing much more money in the development of new radars, missiles, engines and other things, in the training of engineering and scientific personnel and not the fact that a new version of the J-20 will not appear soon, which will not lose the Su-57 so clearly, or maybe in some ways and surpass it.
  • ezdiumno ru
    ezdiumno ru 11 September 2019 13: 04 New
    0
    Funny, funny, considering that the J-20 is essentially a copy of the Mig-1.44 - prototype aircraft of the 90s.
  • yehat
    yehat 11 September 2019 13: 31 New
    -1
    Quote: Gregory_78
    At the same time, the Chinese are investing much more money in the development of new radars, missiles, engines and other things, in the training of engineering and scientific personnel and not the fact that a new version of the J-20 will not appear soon, which will not lose the Su-57 so clearly, or maybe in some ways and surpass it.

    money is not everything
    The main thing that the Chinese do is finance projects, bringing them to results.
    that's what allows them to catch up. For 25 years, the Russian Federation has been dynamically financing the work on AFAR,
    and the Chinese, although slowly, were able to advance in this area.
    But with the frames there, it's pretty sad. It is very difficult for physics to enter the heads with Confucianism. In the east, only very narrow skills are well mastered, and a wide education stalls. That is why their technique resembles Frankenstein, who collected solutions from different designs of others. China spends a lot of effort on education and training, but so far the results are not very good.
    They are saved only by the production base of electronics - developments in this area are very affordable
  • yehat
    yehat 11 September 2019 15: 11 New
    -2
    Quote: Mentat
    Who is considered? Give at least one single example of a well-known publication or site where the Su-57 is described as "really weak."

    weapons program. GPV 2018-2025
    look at the number of cars ordered. If this is strength, then what is weakness?
    Before you argue, I will announce that on December 2, in 2009, Putin said that the PAK FA will begin to arrive in units in 2013. Now is the year 2019. Still not in service, at least a few cars are already on the balance sheet. In Syria, a prototype was not adopted for service, and only for testing and testing.
    At the same time, I would like to remind you that while the United States already has about 22 cars at the F-35 + F800 airfields. Yes, they are raw and not very suitable, but already there. And about 1600 f-35s will be made at 4 plants in the coming years.
    1. Ilya Melnov
      Ilya Melnov 11 September 2019 22: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: yehat
      Yes, they are raw and not very suitable, but already there. And about 1600 f-35s will be made at 4 plants in the coming years.

      raw ?? Do not tell, F22 has been a military vehicle for more than a dozen years, the engines are generally just several times better in terms of reliability and resource than what is in Russia, and the F35 has already gone through three modifications of software and several improvements, and performs combat missions on a regular basis. Rumors of dampness are, to say the least, obsolete.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 12 September 2019 08: 00 New
      +1
      If this is strength, then what is weakness?
      Before you argue, I will announce that on December 2 in the 2009 year, Putin said that the PAK FA will begin to arrive in units in the 2013 year. now is 2019 year


      Putin didn’t say anything like that. For those who are especially unfamiliar with aviation, I remind you that the first orders for the Su-57 appeared 8 years after the first flight, the F-22 took the same path from the first flight to the series, and the simpler MiG-29 in the USSR with infinite resources for the army from the first flight to the 5 series of years. Su-xnumx longer. You do not understand the question, so at least do not lie about Putin.
  • pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 11 September 2019 20: 20 New
    0
    Who would doubt that?
    After all, the Chinese invented TsAGI and Zhukovsky.
    Who are they going to sell their creations?
    "Koziulsky, you are not at Privoz! This is the United State, after all, America!"
  • shoroh
    shoroh 11 September 2019 23: 02 New
    0
    The Chinese are funny. There are no invisibles, well, how long can this be replicated ....
  • Diesel66
    Diesel66 12 September 2019 05: 57 New
    -1
    What kind of export are you talking about? These dryers 10 pieces in total, it is planned to "mass-produce" one at a time per year. One, this is so much 1. This is not for you to drill a hole in the ground, which will pay off in the first year. Or sell a booze ...
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 12 September 2019 07: 57 New
      +2
      76 Already contracted, go down.
      And yes, extracting oil is much more difficult than just drilling a hole, this is a very complicated process. But for someone who himself did not work, everything seems trifling.
      1. Diesel66
        Diesel66 13 September 2019 05: 13 New
        -1
        What are you saying, but I already thought I had drilled holes with a gas drill and here you have oil and gas and the sky in diamonds. Contracted does not mean done. The armies of Shoigu Petrovich do not need airplanes, he needs to finish building the temple for the first time. And then in general no weapons will be needed ....
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 12 September 2019 07: 55 New
    +1
    Remember, the Chinese built at least one usable radar? Why did they get that if they rivet iPhones for the United States, they can make military electronics? These are different things. J-20 is an analogue of the F-22, made according to the aerodynamic design of the 80-s with Russian engines also from the 80-s. Against the background of the Su-57 with its bomb bombs for placement of large-sized ASPs (and stealth is needed for this in the first place), aerodynamics licked, engines that give even now in combat modes traction parity with F-22, watching antennas in all directions, the J-20 is just ridiculous. I doubt that it is competitive even against Su-35. The Chinese military themselves, apparently, also think so, because they bought the Su-35, otherwise their own crafts based on the licensed Su-27 do not fly everywhere.
  • yehat
    yehat 12 September 2019 10: 34 New
    0
    Quote: EvilLion
    You do not understand the question, so at least do not lie about Putin.

    watch the video when he came to Sukhoi to the factory.
    date is known. there he was talking about the price and said a lot of things.
  • yehat
    yehat 12 September 2019 11: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: lucul
    Pffff ...
    The electronic base is better yes, I do not argue, but the software part of the Russian is better.

    You know, every Chinese BMP now has a bunch of electronics and software written by the Chinese.
    but we have nothing of the kind. So I would refrain from speaking highly until a real comparison.
    Yes, we have more cool specialists who can in theory create more advanced algorithms, but they do not solve everything, far from everything!
    see how our "specialists" make tactical information exchange systems for the navy and army
    it’s impossible to look at it without tears. One window dressing.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 12 September 2019 14: 12 New
      0
      Bahcha 's combat module has become Chinese?
      1. yehat
        yehat 12 September 2019 14: 19 New
        0
        Yes, what does the melon?
        overview monitors, a monitor with a map and navigators GPS monitor with tactical information
        Duplication of the image from the weapon guidance system and the location of the mechanical drive, thermal imagers
        field radio equipment that WORKS and has secure communication channels.
        monitor with indications of the state of machine systems.
        and much more.
        what, we have it in all BMP and armored personnel carriers?
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 September 2019 14: 20 New
          0
          The Chinese on the BMP is our "Bahcha-U."
          1. yehat
            yehat 12 September 2019 14: 30 New
            0
            in addition to the melons of the Chinese, cucumbers and watermelons also cost the Chinese
            not everything rests on 1 module, this is not the whole machine.
  • romb
    romb 12 September 2019 14: 22 New
    0
    If you look at what forces and means China is sending today to the development of a scientific and technical school, it is quite possible that their statements are not so far from the truth. And in ten to fifteen years, they will generally go to a healthy margin in the development and implementation of the latest technologies for the aviation of the future.
  • yehat
    yehat 13 September 2019 10: 24 New
    0
    Quote: SU
    Only the Su-57 took part in hostilities already

    oh come on! I really took it. just appeared and that's it.
    the Chinese could just as well bombard the Yangtze and Amur with their j-20s.
    there will also be a "combat" experience