Anti-ship missile: hypersonic or subsonic?

119

The ultimate weapon?


The advent of the new Zircon anti-ship missile caused the effect of an “exploding bomb” in the media and on numerous online forums, even those far from military topics. Of course, the appearance of a rocket with such characteristics is a big technological step. Immediately many dubbed Zircon as “absolute weapon”, Which completely changes all the strategies of“ war at sea ”. However, is this really possible and can this RCC give the decisive advantage of the Russian Navy?

Anti-ship missile: hypersonic or subsonic?




Here you should step back from the topic and delve into history development of anti-ship missiles. It should be noted that the development of anti-ship missiles went in two ways: the Soviet one with its monstrous supersonic missiles and the NATO one with its small-sized subsonic missiles. Of course, this is due to the different specifics of the tasks that set fleet on opposite sides of the Iron Curtain. Where did the Soviet admirals want to acquire an effective and cheap means of fighting the superior enemy fleet and in the opposite situation with the American admirals with their mighty deck aviation, who were tasked with protecting the long sea lanes in the North Atlantic.


The main caliber of the Soviet Navy is the Granit anti-ship missile. She is the crown of the development of supersonic anti-ship missiles



The Harpoon American anti-ship missile is a typical NATO anti-ship missile. It is today the most massive anti-ship missile in the world.


It is safe to say that the Zircon anti-ship missile is a logical continuation of the development of the Soviet way. Since the modern fleet of Russia is the heir to the Soviet Navy, the Russian Navy naturally inherited the concept of developing missile weapons. But how does this concept fit today's realities?

Let's start with the “sickest” problem, namely the issue of reconnaissance and target designation.

For most readers of the Military Review, it is not a secret that the problem of reconnaissance and target designation is an “edge” issue for today's anti-ship systems. It should be noted that even the Soviet naval forces could not completely solve this problem. Of course, now you will recall that a new Lotus satellite system is being created, but can it completely solve this problem when its Soviet predecessor, the Legend satellite system, did not solve it? Let's not forget that anti-satellite weapons are actively developing in the world, and ships with the Aegis system have long learned how to shoot satellites in low Earth orbit. Therefore, when they say that Zircons can hit targets almost thousands of kilometers away, I have questions about target designation. This is despite the fact that Zircons will need very accurate coordinates of the targets, and information about the targets should be updated in real time. Only this circumstance breaks the idea that the Zircon is an absolute weapon.

It is interesting that the Americans, when creating their latest LRASM anti-ship missile system, made it possible to carry out lengthy snake-type maneuvers so that the rocket could find its target, despite the fact that the US Navy has great opportunities for reconnaissance and monitoring of huge ocean open spaces. And what will Zircon do when it flies into a given square and does not find its target? He will simply self-destruct.

Notable Zircon


Obviously, the Zircon will be very noticeable on the radar screens. The hypersonic rocket itself is forced to fly at high altitudes (approximately 30-40 km), where the force of air friction will be minimal. At the same time, the rocket will be surrounded by a cloud of plasma, and such an object will glow on the screens of all radars like street neon signs on the streets of Las Vegas. At the same time, Zircon will need a few minutes to hit the target. This is enough for any air defense system to take action. At the same time, the enormous speed of the missile does not guarantee her invulnerability, especially since the interception will be carried out on the opposite courses, which increases the success of the enemy air defense systems. Modern air defense systems, such as Aegis and C-400, may well solve this problem, and in the future air defense systems will improve and deal more effectively with hypersonic targets. In the extreme case, the ships will have time to put up an insurmountable curtain of interference, while not forgetting that the Zircon will have problems with its homing head, as it is not easy to see something through the flame that surrounds the Zircon.

Speed ​​does not guarantee a breakthrough


So it turns out that hypersonic speed is not a guarantee of a breakthrough in air defense. It is worth noting that similar problems are experienced by the predecessors of Zircon: P-500 “Basalt”, P-700 “Granite” and P-1000 “Volcano”. These anti-ship missiles also performed most of the flight at high altitudes and only at a distance of 50-70 km did they descend to low altitude. At the same time, while at high altitudes, the missiles were vulnerable to both long-range air defense systems and enemy fighters.

It is worth mentioning that this missile will not be able to carry a significant warhead. Little is known about Zircon itself, but it is known for certain that it can be placed in cells for Caliber and Onyx. So, “Zircon” has the same dimensions. At the same time, we know that the P-800 Onyx was used during the creation of Zircon. Moreover, Onyx is a prototype for Zircon. We know for sure that the P-800 Onyx missile carries a warhead weighing 300 kg, which contains 146 kg of explosives. From this information we can conclude that the Zircon carries the warhead much easier than the Onyx, since it has similar mass and size data, and the Zircon itself should carry more fuel. So it turns out that the mass of warheads at Zircon will be approximately 3 times smaller, which is rather weak.

Zircon Price


Finally, the price of Zircon. The cost of a serial sample is unknown, but it is obvious that such a high-tech product will be expensive. And from this it follows that Zircon will not be widely represented in the fleet, but most importantly, the high price of the product means a small number of training starts. So it turns out that there is a "super rocket", and sailors do not know how to use it.

If we look at the international context, we will see that Russia is mainly engaged in supersonic and especially hypersonic anti-ship missiles. The remaining countries that are developing RCCs make them subsonic, low-altitude, cheap and universal. Those same Americans, when they started a program to develop a new anti-ship missile system, had a choice: to develop a subsonic low-altitude anti-ship missile system or to follow the Soviet path and create a supersonic anti-ship missile system. The Americans chose the first option.


LRASM itself has a huge range and a fairly advanced guidance system and is certainly very dangerous for any warship


Conclusions


We came to the following conclusions: betting on high speed is not a guarantee of victory. Subsonic low-altitude rockets are no weaker, and perhaps even more effective. Modern anti-ship systems are faced with the problem of target designation in the “real time” mode and overcoming air defense. Modern advances in electronics and programming make it possible to create missiles that can operate in a single missile swarm, exchanging data with each other and conducting a coordinated attack. This was partially realized even at the Soviet Granit RCC, where one missile could transmit information to other missiles. Today, the development of technology allows far better to realize the ability of RCC to act together.

In my opinion, the most promising RCC concept comes down to the fact that missiles do not act alone, but in whole packs, in which there is a division of labor between missiles. The basis for such a system will be subsonic low-altitude missiles, each salvo will consist of three types of missiles:

1. Scouts. These missiles will not carry warheads, instead they will be equipped with a more powerful radar and other reconnaissance devices, in essence they will drones disposable scouts. They will fly away from the main forces at high altitudes, searching for targets and transmitting data to the rest of the missiles, as well as to their ship. At the same time, several such scouts can be launched in a salvo so that some of them can be in reserve, fly with the radar turned off and take the place of downed scouts, thereby solving the issue of target designation.

2. Jammers. Everything is clear here, these missiles will carry means for jamming. The task of the aircraft data is to set the curtain out of interference and divert the air defense forces onto itself, simply speaking, blocking the main forces, which will facilitate the task of overcoming the air defense.

3. The main forces. These are ordinary anti-ship missiles that already carry warheads. Their task is to directly hit the target.

Here the reader can object: they say, this concept is very expensive, such a volley may well cost several tens of millions of dollars. This argument can be answered: the purpose of such missile flocks should not be boats or tugs, for the destruction of which there are simple anti-ship missiles (X-35), but rather large warships of a class not lower than the frigate. A modern warship is a rather expensive thing, for example, the Norwegian frigate Fridtjof Nansen costs more than 500 million dollars, the total cost of the American destroyer Arly Burke is 1,1 billion. Therefore, the cost of a volley of dozens of missiles is fully justified. The question is how to place such a missile flock on a warship, since a lot of missile mines will be required. But these costs will fully pay off in battle.

This concept of anti-ship missiles will create a more effective means of destroying enemy warships. And, in the opinion of the author, they will be a much better solution than the creation of hypersonic missiles.
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  1. +11
    9 August 2019 03: 55
    1. Scouts. These missiles will not carry warheads, instead they will be equipped with a more powerful radar and other reconnaissance equipment, in essence they will be 2 single-use reconnaissance drones. Jammers.3. The main forces. These are ordinary anti-ship missiles that already carry warheads. Their task is to directly hit the target. Fir-trees! I posted this concept on p. VO relatively recently, as a comment I don’t remember which article! belay Well, nothing can be left unattended in VO! They’ll stebber right there! crying Oh! It was necessary to patent! fool
    1. +7
      9 August 2019 07: 19
      Everything is stibren long before you - GAM-72 Quail - 1960-61, 600 units were manufactured.
      No complexes have yet been created that can effectively fight Zircon.
      1. +3
        9 August 2019 08: 39
        Interesting article.
        In my opinion, the author did not focus on a few more problems.
        1. RL GSN RCC relatively easy to deceive by means of modern RCC by electronic warfare and traps, as evidenced by the entire history of the combat use of RCC at sea, this has been repeatedly discussed here.
        2. The problem of target selection by EPR is far from an easy task and does not give any guarantee, especially if the enemy uses traps and rep with false targets. The ESR of ships is very different from different directions.
        3. Information in real time should be not only about the target, but also about other objects in a sufficiently large radius from the target. Otherwise, there is a high probability of falling into a false target or into a foreign object.
        4. There is a serious problem that if you launch all the ammunition in one gulp and for some reason it goes into milk.
        Then what, give up? Or run away from the enemy headlong?
        A bet on one powerful salvo is good if there is 100 percent confidence in the position of the target. A single radar contact does not give such a 100 guarantee.
        When the Union practiced for this constant monitoring of the adversary. And now? Fly up for visual recognition?
        hi
        1. 0
          9 August 2019 10: 24
          go under water bug stick and bang
      2. 0
        9 August 2019 08: 47
        Quote: mark1
        GAM-72 Quail - 1960-61gg

        It's still not that! "Fedot, but not that one!"
        1. +4
          9 August 2019 08: 56
          Yes, almost the same. Even then, they calculated and came to a conclusion. that rather than directing a bunch of all sorts of false targets, it is much easier to put small-sized nuclear charges for these purposes and crush them with a mass - and this is how the Tamahawk appeared. And the problem of target designation and selection may well be solved by a leader rocket in a group (wolf pack) or (and) a drone
          1. +2
            9 August 2019 11: 57
            Quote: mark1
            Yes, practically that

            And yet not the same .... GAM-72 is a false target, designed to imitate a bomber jacket and attract missiles to itself ... I mean the concept: "Lead-led"!
            Quote: mark1
            the problem of target designation and selection may well be solved by the leader rocket in the group (wolf pack) or (and) a drone

            Yes, the point is that the Leading-Slave (KVV) concept is a development or a variant of the Wolf Pack concept! In the Wolf Pack (FAC) concept, each rocket from the Pack can “take on” the role "leader" ("father-commander"), but he can also remain a "ordinary soldier" ... The problem may be as follows: limited resources for "combining many things": and hit the target, and be a "leader", create interference, imitate false target, and the "fifth" and "tenth" ... Previously, much was possible to "combine", thanks to the dimensions of the "multi-ton" anti-ship missiles "of that time"! Modern anti-ship missiles are more "thin", with more modest dimensions ... and even miniaturization of electronics cannot always solve the problem. Then the idea appears to "improve" the concept of the Wolf Pack to the concept of "Leader-Follower", where the concept of "Leader" (or "Leader", if you will) is introduced, and "Slaves" (rockets with more "modest" electronic equipment, but a relatively powerful warhead ...) The "Leader-Leader" may not have a warhead, since all the space, all the weight is given means of detection, target designation, electronic warfare ... It is the "leader" that must have a powerful radar with AFAR (possibly even 2 radars of different ranges), a radio direction finder, a thermal imager, a laser rangefinder, or even an active laser seeker ... radio interference generators (imitating and camouflage ...), means of shooting heat traps and dipole reflectors, disposable jamming radio transmitters (possibly with a rocket engine ...) .. "Leading leader" must be perfectly protected! There may be more than one "leader" ... Separation is also possible when the listed functions (means) are concentrated not in one "leader", but in a "pair": "leader" and "assistant" ... "Leader" has powerful means detection, target designation (multi-mode seeker, for example) ... the "assistant" is equipped with electronic warfare means, a system for generating evasion (maneuvering) commands, kamikaze capabilities when protecting the leader ... "Assistant" can be even a lighter, smaller missile, than "master" or "slave". Launchers can be "arranged" according to the principle when either 1 heavy missile or 2-4 light missiles are installed in a "cell" ... as it is now being implemented in the S-400 or Pantsir-SM air defense systems
            1. +2
              9 August 2019 16: 29
              Maybe this is all overkill? Learning to calculate a great leader at once and no one will save him. Another thing is a "wolf pack" with the possibility of replacing the leader with any other rocket from the pack, and if, due to circumstances, additional electronic amplification is needed, launch a UAV. And in general, any quality is successfully choked with the appropriate amount, the main thing here is to maintain a balance.
              1. +1
                9 August 2019 17: 51
                Quote: mark1
                Maybe it's all overkill

                It is possible! Although, for example, listing the "list of necessary equipment" for the "leader", I did not mean that this should be installed "all in one place" ... In addition, I do not propose to abandon the concept of a "wolf pack" in the "previous "kind! In certain cases, the "old" concept of the "wolf pack" may be sufficient, when "any" rocket from the "pack" can be both a "leader" and an "ordinary fighter" ... But it does not hurt to have a developed version of the improved concept a "wolf pack" with a "professional" (!) "leader" or "leader", when the "lead" missile has enhanced functionality and capabilities, greater protection from being hit by active air defense weapons and the effects of electronic warfare: powerful or multifunctional radar, or "multi-mode" GOS (radars of centimeter and millimeter ranges, TV, IR, "laser" ...), correction from a satellite or an AWACS aircraft, electronic warfare means (both active and, possibly, passive ...), a threat priority detector, including the evasion mode, means of providing "super-maneuverability", etc. ... In this case, you may have to "do" without warheads, tk. the whole "place" will be taken by additional "special equipment" Thus, there will be a choice of both a cheaper "previous" version and a more expensive "improved" one ... It is possible that in the future there may be missiles - "defenders", warheads of which will represent "kits" of small-sized interceptor missiles to protect "lead" and "slave" missiles ...
      3. -2
        9 August 2019 16: 06
        Quote: mark1
        No complexes have yet been created that can effectively fight Zircon.

        Actually, why create them? even existing ZPK \ ZAK \ ZRK are capable of knocking down zircon under the condition of target designation, and I’ll generally keep silent about ship separation. Clear business there are nuances, like LA-DRLO, weather, excitement, electronic warfare and many other things, BUT all this does not change the fact that existing systems can bring down and therefore sculpt something new is not particularly necessary. (although desirable)
        1. +2
          9 August 2019 16: 10
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          even existing ZPK \ ZAK \ ZRK are able to bring down zircon

          If you’re very lucky. Following this principle, you can shoot down even from a slingshot.
          1. 0
            9 August 2019 18: 21
            Quote: mark1
            If you’re very lucky

            Especially for minuscule sofa experts
            Modern anti-aircraft missiles (SP) can shoot down the target in oncoming courses, with this method of destruction the speed of the target is not important, but its maneuverability is important. And just with hypersonic maneuverability there is a DISADVANTAGE, that is, the higher the speed, the worse the maneuverability. Therefore, to bring down a supersonic maneuvering anti-ship missile is much more difficult than hypersonic non-maneuvering anti-ship missile. That is, to bring down a hypersonic non-maneuvering anti-ship missile, it will be sufficient to either use 3-10 old missiles, or 2-3 modern missiles interacting with each other in the final section.
            1. +1
              9 August 2019 18: 28
              That's why I like to read comments on VO - you can learn a lot.
              I do not put cons without justification. And in this case I didn’t.
            2. +1
              10 August 2019 03: 04
              O great couch guru, a reference to the defeat of a maneuvering hypersonic target in the studio. For 10 years, Americans have achieved the defeat of an NOT maneuvering ballistic target and were able only once out of 10 with accurate external target designation.
      4. +1
        9 August 2019 21: 48
        I agree with you, but it seems to me that the author has been too clever, 600 km of zircon flies for 4 minutes, if it was not clear what the target indicated during this time, and where did the target disappear during this time, what new target designation is it?
      5. 0
        16 August 2019 12: 30
        Quote: mark1
        No complexes have yet been created that can effectively fight Zircon.

        As far as I understand, no one has reliable information about the real characteristics and capabilities of the Zircon. As a result, the thesis about the impossibility of fighting it is based solely on speculation and guesswork (i.e., nothing).
    2. +2
      9 August 2019 16: 55
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Well, nothing can be left unattended in VO! They’ll stebber right there!


      The next stage will be the incorporation of anti-missile defense into the composition of the RCC wave, the task of which will be to combat anti-aircraft missile systems, airborne explosives and fighter aircraft carriers. smile
    3. 0
      12 August 2019 13: 42
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      1. Scouts. These missiles will not carry warheads

      why's that? the export 3M54E has a radar radius of about 70 km (the standard one has more). in the square of the target displays the ANN, on the site RLGSN.
      What kind of attempts to pull an owl on the globe and come up with some terrible guidance problems?
  2. val
    -1
    9 August 2019 06: 23
    Thanks, interesting.
    You are right, the question of target designation and the question of price.
    There will be a war or not, but this way before its beginning the population of an entire country can be left without pants.
    However, this was already in the USSR.
    Then all this pile of weapons went to the bay of Pavlovsky for cutting.
    1. +16
      9 August 2019 06: 33
      Writing about what is the secret behind seven seals and making a review, and even more so the conclusions, to put it mildly, is not correct. I pose the question this way: what does the author know for certain about Zircon?
      1. 0
        9 August 2019 08: 21
        Writing about what is the secret behind seven seals and making a review, and even more so the conclusions, to put it mildly, is not correct.

        The author is doing everything right ... in order to confuse the enemy and members of the forum, at the same time you need to let the car of the dust curtain in such a review ... go and understand what is true there and what is fiction and fantasy ... what
        It is still not clear which characteristics of Zircon are real and which fiction ...
        disinformation measures are also included in securing the product.
        In real battle, we only find out what Zircon is capable of.
  3. sen
    +11
    9 August 2019 06: 35
    Obviously, the Zircon will be very noticeable on the radar screens. The hypersonic rocket itself is forced to fly at high altitudes (about 30-40 km), where the force of air friction will be minimal. At the same time, the rocket will be surrounded by a cloud of plasma, and such an object will glow on the screens of all radars like street neon signs on the streets of Las Vegas.

    In fact, plasma is specially created for masking, since it absorbs radio waves.
    CR DB 3М-25 "Thunder"
    A missile feature is a unique complex for overcoming enemy air defense. It was called a defense complex with a plasma formation system. The plasma generator, working forward, provided masking of the air intake of the mid-flight engine.

    https://topwar.ru/19384-strategicheskaya-universalnaya-kr-3m25-grom-kompleks-meteorit.html
    1. +4
      9 August 2019 08: 00
      It’s not true, I served in the radio engineering forces as a radar operator, it does not mask the plasma from radio waves. On the contrary, such a rocket shines both in the literal and figurative sense.
    2. 0
      9 August 2019 08: 34
      Um, plasma perfectly reflects the radio waves.
    3. +4
      9 August 2019 10: 06
      In general, ionized gas not only absorbs radio waves, but also emits itself, glowing on the radar screens like a Christmas tree.
      1. 0
        9 August 2019 21: 18
        Did the 3M-25 developers not know about this? And with multiple starts, incl. with the use of these tricks, it glowed so much that they did so many of these launches?
  4. +6
    9 August 2019 06: 54
    Rocket weapons practically did not add much new to the tactics of naval battles. As before, the winner is the one who first detects the enemy and quickly delivers "cast iron and gunpowder" to him on board. The "pack" concept works at any speed (take the same supersonic Granite), but the supersonic with hypersonic has a speed advantage, and the one who drew the "Colt" first is right. The same hypersonic carrier can be used as a high-altitude reconnaissance vehicle, it quickly jumps up and plans further with the same snake on subsonic waves, scanning its squares for the presence of an enemy (Granite from the "flock" allocated for reconnaissance purposes also goes much higher than the main missile group). Detection (or the enemy's target betrays itself by anti-air defense) - a packet to the satellite - in the BIUS KUG - a flock of Zircons rushes to the target. Subsonic flock A cheaper and more massive solution - yes, a little higher stealth - yes (if you exclude support for KUG / AUG AWACS), but at the same time it hopelessly loses in terms of target detection time (in self-reconnaissance mode and without an external control center) and reaction speed.
  5. +4
    9 August 2019 07: 11
    Modern advances in electronics and programming make it possible to create missiles that can operate in a single missile swarm, exchanging data with each other and conducting a coordinated attack. This was partially realized even at the Soviet Granit RCC, where one missile could transmit information to other missiles.

    A similar system at a higher level is implemented in the Onyx (Bramos) anti-ship missile system.
    Both systems are needed: hypersonic and subtle subsonic. Moreover, they must act together. So more likely to break through the defense.
    1. AAK
      +3
      9 August 2019 11: 27
      I agree that in a salvo of one target for the best result, a combination of "hyper" and "stealth" is needed, just coordinate the launch time for a one-step approach to the target to destroy the air defense ... As for the "plasma", EMNIP it (according to the old designs of Keldyshevsky Institute, the theme "Marabou") distorts the location of the actual location of the attacking aircraft or missile ...
  6. +9
    9 August 2019 07: 24
    By the way, about target designation.
    And why for a rocket with supersonic more accurate TS? After all, the flight time to the target is shorter - this means that the target can also deviate to a shorter distance. In fact, in 10-15 minutes of the flight of Onyx, AUG is unlikely to even be able to turn around.
    1. +1
      9 August 2019 10: 09
      Here is just one degree of deviation in the initial part of the trajectory to turn into 40-50 meters in the target area. And to correct the error at hypersonic speed is much more difficult than at sound.
      1. +3
        9 August 2019 10: 46
        More. An error of 1 degree gives a deviation of 17.5 meters per kilometer of flight.
        At 100 km - 1.75 km
        The sine of the error must be multiplied by the range
      2. -2
        9 August 2019 11: 39
        Hypersonic ammunition (Zircon, Avangard) flying in a plasma cloud is equipped with a gravimeter-based homing system.

        Gravimeters were used on ICBM / SLBM combat units with a KNO 200 meters regardless of flight range. They were replaced by a system of auto-correction, which provides BBO BB at the level of 90 meters.

        200 meters miss on an aircraft carrier is nothing for the 250-ktn warhead "Zircon".
      3. +2
        9 August 2019 12: 08
        Here there are the following parameters to consider:
        1. The reaction time of air defense systems.
        2. Time capture and target selection
        3. Time and place for course adjustment
        4. the possibility of guaranteed interception of missiles by air defense systems

        And on this basis, we already consider. Where guidance should begin (i.e. distance to the target).

        Those. it is quite possible (roughly) a situation when, to aim a subsonic missile (taking into account all factors), it is necessary to start guidance over 70 km, but at the same time the probability of intercepting a single missile will be very high. But with the same 70 km at supersonic, the probability of interception of a single rocket will be zero. Accordingly, guidance can be started a little earlier.

        It should be borne in mind that the rocket can start pointing not only at the terminal section, but also much earlier, because the enemy may not have the means to destroy them (or the probability of this is low). Then the guidance issue can begin to be resolved much earlier.
  7. +2
    9 August 2019 07: 54
    Air-based Zircons beg. Let's say the Su-30. Here you and the actual target designation and increase the radius.
    1. 0
      9 August 2019 08: 28
      And for how many kilometers the Su 30 radar will see the ship and the range of the Su 30 is not great, the author is right - a lot rests on target designation. Zircon is far from an absolute weapon, especially since an explosive mass of 50 kg will not be enough. And I think the price is big. And the Americans are not fools, it is not for nothing that they abandoned hypersonic anti-ship missiles.
      In my opinion, all these Zircons, Poseidons and missiles with nuclear engines are simply show off.
      1. +6
        9 August 2019 09: 16
        The fact is that Americans count money. The development of subsonic missiles was carried out (recall) in the early 80s, when most air defense systems were single-channel, which allowed them to be quickly enough loaded by launching 2-3 missiles.
        And then the USSR fell apart. And the air defense of most countries remained at the level of the 80s and developed in fact only with us. Therefore, since The Americans planned to seize the USSR peacefully (that is, they did not constitute a threat of the first degree), and for the rest there were also subsonic missiles, the USA did not invest in hypersound.

        Now the situation is changing. More and more countries are adopting multi-channel systems, for which it is already much more difficult to reload.

        So it turns out that if we calculate the outfit of forces for subsonic and supersonic missiles to perform a task (with a given probability) with the same configuration of modern multi-channel air defense, then it is quite possible that it is economically more profitable to use a smaller number of more expensive supersonic missiles than a handful. " cheap "subsonic.

        Those. conditionally saying that for a given air defense of supersonic missiles, 10 pieces will be required, and for subsonic 30.
      2. 0
        9 August 2019 09: 17
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        And for how many kilometers the Su 30 radar will see the ship and the range of the Su 30 is not large,

        Come on, not great. Thousands probably one and a half. Depending on the size of the ship and the angle, I think 200-300 kilometers.
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        And the Americans are not fools, it is not for nothing that they abandoned hypersonic anti-ship missiles.

        Not fools, but they refused a lot of good things.
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        In my opinion, all these Zircons, Poseidons and missiles with nuclear engines are simply show off.

        And what minke whales can oppose to these "show-offs"? David Majumar?
        1. 0
          16 August 2019 14: 50
          Quote: Winnie76
          Not fools, but they refused a lot of good things.

          Because not all "good" things are expedient. Specifically, with hypersound, everything looks rather prosaic: well, the Americans do not have such an adversary that would require hypersonic anti-ship missiles to resist.

          Quote: Winnie76
          And what can minke whales oppose to these "show-offs"?

          Everything is simple - sanctions. You do not need to be afraid of the enemy's wunderwafel if he (the enemy) does not have the money to build them. And so far we have nothing to oppose to this "otvetochka".
      3. +3
        9 August 2019 14: 16
        We don’t know anything about Zircon, so to say that it has a warhead weight of 50 kilograms, at least prematurely.
        1. -1
          9 August 2019 20: 01
          Quote: Vadim237
          that she has a mass of warhead 50 kilograms at least prematurely.

          A RCC colleague mixed up with missiles ... It happens!
          Less than 150 kg (even in av. RCC) the usual warhead did not meet ..
          So, "tovarisch - got excited"!
          AHA.
    2. bar
      +2
      9 August 2019 08: 54
      There is also a "dagger" on the MiG-31
  8. +1
    9 August 2019 07: 54
    Everything needs to be built, a control system for airspace, a control system for ground space, we can reach the underground .... it’s a lot of money, but without it there’s no way anywhere !!!
    However, ALL have similar problems, to one degree or another, no one can brag about everything and everything !!! Moreover, in the dressed up / bad period, there will be serious opposition from the enemies / adversary.
    It is necessary to invent, do and skillfully use what is and what will be!
    In the meantime, for now, vigorous arguments are ours, and ALL of them !!!
    One thing is clear, it is not forever, and who wasting time and resources in vain may simply not live to see such a distant bright, peaceful future.
  9. +12
    9 August 2019 08: 27
    Strange conclusions from the generally obvious things. IMHO, it is worth remembering that "small-sized, cheap, subsonic anti-ship missiles" are in service with the Russian Navy. So high-speed and heavy anti-ship missiles are basically the "icing on the cake" ...
    second ... a reference to a "small warhead" - well, at least it is three times heavier than everything available to opponents ... In addition, it is worth remembering about kinetic energy - as you know, it is determined by the "square of velocity by mass" - accordingly, the power of the warhead increases multiple ...
    Everyone has problems with target designation ... But in principle, the possibility of striking at long distances is better than its absence, especially since striking with such missiles is advisable for corresponding (well, very large and contrasting) goals ...
    Third - the technology of "flock" guidance has been worked out even on Granites ... I doubt that "zircons" will do more stupid ...
  10. 0
    9 August 2019 08: 40
    Good morning!

    Tell me, pst,
    -what size should a reconnaissance rocket be in order to fill it with equipment and a power source sufficient to conduct a Zumvolt for a long time, for example
    - of the size of the electronic warfare rocket, to fill it with equipment and a power source, sufficient to make it difficult to detect from the side of the ACG for several minutes, for example

    With proofs / calculations, eu;)
    1. 0
      9 August 2019 20: 30
      Quote: Andrey Shmelev
      Tell me, pst,

      A colleague expressed his "vision" of the problem, nothing more. Nobody was going to create anti-ship missiles in AWACS / REP mode. This would mean reducing the BC in advance! No one in their right mind will do this ...
      Ours made "Helden Sholders" - three in one. And our heavy anti-ship missiles ... throw out the LC, put aiming interference with the enemy's firing radar, and perfectly drive into the sides of the CC ... So, everything was invented and embodied in the hardware before him.
      As for onboard power supplies. All power from the onboard generator of the Kyrgyz Republic. Ampoule batteries only for feeding primary circuits of control systems, etc. Therefore, ABs for powering avionics, as such, are absent. After acceleration, the turbojet engine switches to on-board power.
  11. +3
    9 August 2019 08: 40
    Somehow the author famously wrote off supersonic and hypersonic anti-ship missiles, well, just children's toys for children of younger kindergarten. Especially "pleased" the phrase
    At the same time, while at high altitudes, the missiles were vulnerable to both long-range air defense systems and for enemy fighters.
    ... It is interesting how fighters will shoot down anti-ship missiles at an altitude of 40 km. And there are questions to the vaunted Aegis.
    1. +1
      9 August 2019 10: 02
      And should fighters shoot down missiles at an altitude of 40 km? Although this is possible, it is much easier to shoot down on a downward trajectory and even on oncoming courses.
      1. +1
        9 August 2019 10: 11
        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        And should fighters shoot down missiles at an altitude of 40 km?

        Redirect your question to the author of the article.
        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        Although it’s possible,

        "Theoretically, it is possible for oneself to be in the bottom ........... if you run very fast around the pole" (C) E. Ovechkin "Shark from steel"
  12. +4
    9 August 2019 09: 00
    A weak article, if not to put it more firmly ... It is precisely the low-altitude subsonic missiles that NATO troops can shoot down, as the incidents near Yemen showed. All these datalinks and "rocket flocks" of yours have long been learned to jam normally. But a high-speed target, like a Chinese ballistic missile or a hypersonic missile, is already a much bigger problem, I have read the opinion of their admirals in the press more than once, perhaps even overdoing it with hypersonic phobia. Regarding plasma formation, it occurs most actively at a certain altitude (roughly speaking, when entering the atmosphere), at a certain speed (~ 10 Machs and higher, I think the Zircon has less). Those. if this is not a "diving" Vanguard, then the anti-ship missile should not glow like a flying Christmas tree.
  13. +1
    9 August 2019 09: 15
    I have a question. Isn't it possible to equip the Zircon with a small nuclear charge? Just in order not to hit the enemy unit, but to temporarily withdraw all of his electronics with an electro-magnetic pulse. And after that "scouts" with target designation, missiles equipped with electronic warfare and only then killer missiles will fly up to the enemy.
  14. +2
    9 August 2019 09: 31
    The article is at the pioneer level.

    The opponents of the Russian Federation do not have anti-aircraft missiles at all, capable of hitting hypersonic aerodynamic targets at the Zircon's flight echelon - 40 km. When diving at a target from a specified height, the Zircon develops even greater speed and, at the same time, performs the “snake” anti-missile maneuver.

    At the terminal leg of the AUG Zirkonov flight, a standard missile defense system will be used in the form of a "first-second" attack - the leading missile is detonated at an altitude of 40 km and suppresses EMP from a high-altitude nuclear explosion of all AUG radars, the slave missile dives onto the aircraft carrier and destroys it with a capacity of 150 ktn, simultaneously knocking out the escort ships.

    AUG can be detected like two fingers on the asphalt - the characteristic sonar noises of the aircraft carrier and the destroyers accompanying it (which cannot be imitated) are heard under water 1000 km away - just at the flight range of the "Zircons" based on attack nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy (suddenly).
    1. 0
      9 August 2019 09: 58
      And from the trap Nixi, which some minesweeper pulls, for all 2000.
      1. 0
        9 August 2019 11: 29
        Yes yes: AN / SLQ-25 Nixie laughing

    2. +1
      9 August 2019 11: 41
      There is no need for special ammunition, we have long developed a warhead capable of giving a short-term amy pulse sufficient to incapacitate radars and other sensitive equipment
    3. +2
      10 August 2019 17: 28
      Quote: Operator
      The article is at the pioneer level.

      The opponents of the Russian Federation do not have anti-aircraft missiles at all, capable of hitting hypersonic aerodynamic targets at the Zircon's flight echelon - 40 km. When diving at a target from a specified height, the Zircon develops even greater speed and, at the same time, performs the “snake” anti-missile maneuver.

      At the terminal leg of the AUG Zirkonov flight, a standard missile defense system will be used in the form of a "first-second" attack - the leading missile is detonated at an altitude of 40 km and suppresses EMP from a high-altitude nuclear explosion of all AUG radars, the slave missile dives onto the aircraft carrier and destroys it with a capacity of 150 ktn, simultaneously knocking out the escort ships.

      AUG can be detected like two fingers on the asphalt - the characteristic sonar noises of the aircraft carrier and the destroyers accompanying it (which cannot be imitated) are heard under water 1000 km away - just at the flight range of the "Zircons" based on attack nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy (suddenly).


      "Snake"?
      At hypersonic speed?
      Yes, and when diving?


      High-altitude nuclear explosion jamming only AUG radars?
      And the electronic circuits of their missiles flying next - EMP will not touch? No?

      How many submariners wrote about the discovery of avik at a distance of 1000 km? with accurate selection?
      Maybe not one?

      How many times did Midway “attack” Kamchatka? Until they found him?
      Probably a week?

      The operator in his key - he came up with it, he believed ...
      Alternative Universe!
  15. -3
    9 August 2019 09: 52
    Very interesting and correct article
  16. +6
    9 August 2019 11: 46
    Hmm .. The author has strange conclusions. If for a hypersonic rocket, your problem of targeting is an edge, like it flew into a given square, did not find anyone, self-destructed, the adversary unscrewed, in your opinion, to the side at a speed close to supersonic. Are there no problems with target designation for a missile with a subsonic speed? Although such a rocket will cover a tighter distance in 5-7 times longer and the enemy ship will cover a much greater distance in a given period of time. And it is a little easier to shoot down subsonic ones. Honestly, your conclusions about the unnecessary need for hypersonic missiles, subsonic "our everything", are pretty far-fetched.
  17. 0
    9 August 2019 14: 14
    The conclusion is that all subsonic anti-ship missiles will be able to easily intercept air defense ship systems such as the Shell Shell MS, S 300 the same Ajis, Volcano and others with a 99% probability, and hypersonic missiles flying at altitudes up to 40 and above - not a single anti-aircraft gun and air defense missile it will not be able to intercept, even air-to-air missiles on carrier-based fighter aircraft.
  18. +2
    9 August 2019 14: 34
    Nothing is known, but everything is bad! What is the article about !!?
  19. +1
    9 August 2019 14: 56
    Comparison of Onyx and Zircon is absolutely incorrect, therefore it leads to false conclusions about the weight of warheads.
    It is incapable of comparing two ideologically different products
  20. +2
    9 August 2019 15: 00
    The thesis about the difficulty of detecting AUG in the sea is false. Of decent people, no one will leave a huge trough unattended from the moment he leaves the home port
  21. +1
    9 August 2019 15: 04
    The thesis about "the ease of deceiving the radar seeker by traps and interference" is partially true, but for tube equipment.
    I’m afraid to disappoint the author, but since then the designs and algorithms of the GOS RCC have changed somewhat
  22. -1
    9 August 2019 15: 05
    Quote: Vadim237
    The conclusion is that all subsonic anti-ship missiles will be able to easily intercept air defense ship systems such as the Shell Shell MS, S 300 the same Ajis, Volcano and others with a 99% probability, and hypersonic missiles flying at altitudes up to 40 and above - not a single anti-aircraft gun and air defense missile it will not be able to intercept, even air-to-air missiles on carrier-based fighter aircraft.


    Aegis has problems with low altitude targets
  23. +1
    9 August 2019 15: 13
    A very big advantage of the same LRASM is that it can be carried by decks, and not just destroyers.
    This gives a huge maneuver in terms of the use of such anti-ship missiles.
  24. +1
    9 August 2019 15: 15
    Another omnipresent article full of false premises:
    1) "the question of intelligence and target designation."
    SUDDENLY, the issue of reconnaissance and target designation is important not only for Zircon. And he is resolved. In addition to the "Liana" system, there are also "Volna" and "Container" aircraft, reconnaissance aircraft, "Irtysh-Amphora" with a detection range of surface ships from submarines of 320 km.
    Moreover, for Zircon, the question of target designation is less acute:
    - firstly, the range of zircon is obviously less than the range of similar subsonic missiles.
    - Secondly, 10 swings of zircon at a distance of 400 km allow it to achieve the goal in 110 seconds. During this time, a typical target will go about 2 km. Which is a multiple of less than the distance for which the target must go in order to leave the zone of guaranteed correction for the homing head. The same LRASM projected at a range of 1000 km, subsonic speed and a low-altitude flight profile is forced to be designed for maneuvers with a target search, since during its flight the target will go 20 km (for a range of 400) and 50 (with a range of 1000)
    2)
    Notable Zircon

    -
    Ama hypersonic rocket is forced to fly at high altitudes (about 30-40 km), where the force of air friction will be minimal.
    Why did the author get this? Zircon is positioned as hypersonic winged rocket. Cruise missiles do not fly at 30-40 km in principle. And the Aerodynamic Dagger and Iskander is not Zircon, although the speeds are close.
    -
    At the same time, the rocket will be surrounded by a cloud of plasma, and such an object will glow on the screens of all radars like street neon signs on the streets of Las Vegas.
    The author is spreading the misconception that plasma reflects radio waves well. In reality, the opposite is true. Plasma ABSORBES radio waves of certain ranges. (Http://femto.com.ua/articles/part_2/2920.html). Moreover, the absorption ranges can be adjusted by certain methods (and this is a special topic so there will be no links)
    -
    At the same time, Zircon will need a few minutes to hit the target
    1,5 and 3 minutes for ranges of 400 and 800 km. Despite the fact that the range of zircon in 400+ km is a big question.
    -
    This is enough for any air defense system to take action.
    What measures? Unsuccessful? Have time to pray?
    -
    moreover, the interception will be carried out on the opposite courses, which increases the success of the enemy air defense systems.
    it's just nonsense. At opposite courses, the speed of the rocket and the missile is added up, which leads to the requirements for increased speed of the anti-missile control system (and this is the speed of the LMS and the power and speed of the steering elements and overload.
    -
    modern air defense systems, such as Aegis and S-400, may well solve this problem,
    Examples of tests in the studio. And not for a ballistic target with a stationary trajectory known in advance, but at least with a quasi-ballistic one.
    -
    In the worst case, the ships will have time to put an insurmountable curtain of interference,
    and you cannot put interference in front of subsonic targets, right? Moreover, the jamming system also has speed, and time matters; Especially of course inspires "irresistible" ...
    -
    you should not forget that Zircon will have problems with its homing head, since it is not easy to see something through the flames that will surround the Zircon.
    If the Zircon control system works, we will find out about this from the test results. And if not, then there will be no zircon.
    So it turns out that there is a "super rocket", and sailors do not know how to use it.
    To test crew actions, training stands are used. Launch real products to work out the actions of the crew is not necessary.

    The remaining countries that are developing RCCs make them subsonic, low-altitude, cheap and universal.
    The flesh has gone ... The rest of the countries simply have not yet been able to hypersound. But developments are being carried out in the most active way, and colossal money is being spent on this.

    perspective RCC concept

    This is not a promising concept, but feed for the already existing air defense system of a potential enemy.
    Neither low altitude nor stealth give a guarantee against detection by air patrols, moreover, existing low-altitude and low-visibility missiles are quite detectable and accompanied
    Low speed makes it possible to quickly take off air defense fighters from aircraft carriers, after which there can be no talk of any glut of air defense.
    1. 0
      9 August 2019 21: 28
      Quote: Newone
      Another omnipresent article full of false premises:

      Unlike comrade. Ligacheva, I will say: "BRIS, YOU ARE RIGHT!" good
      I wanted to write a "refutation" to the author at the end, but you did it perfectly ... I think it's not worth repeating.
      Only ... one little clarification: 2 pairs of air patrols in the threatened period in the missile-dangerous direction will constantly hang, replacing each other. It's like "Good morning!" - and don't go to the grandmother! And Hawkeye will direct them. Moreover, 4 more vultures nest in the AVU in readiness for departure in 5 minutes of readiness. This is the second echelon of air defense systems. That is why ours built supersonic anti-ship missiles to drive the Ams into time trouble!
      And X-35 / 35U is for forces that are not covered by an umbrella. But also not simple things ...
  25. +1
    9 August 2019 15: 27
    author, you at least study a little topic ...
    This is enough for any air defense system to take action. At the same time, the enormous speed of the missile does not guarantee her invulnerability, especially since the interception will be carried out on the opposite courses, which increases the success of the enemy air defense systems. Modern air defense systems, such as Aegis and S-400, may well solve this problem

    for the Americans, all the missiles of the fleet and coastal installations, ballistic capable of intercepting zircon, are guided by an accurate hit. Recently, they disgraced themselves several times with the defeat of the simplest targets during exercises and when a Korean missile flew near Japan. This is partly because the Americans are lightening the rocket and the cost of the development so that the simplified system would "fit."
    We have a radically different approach - the rocket, as before, focuses on an explosion near the target and is quite powerful. Therefore, the probability of hitting a target in our c400 and c500 complexes is much greater, at times, if not tens of times, for such a difficult target as Zircon.
    And old American missiles are capable of knocking down, but are already poorly suited for energy indicators and guidance systems. That is why in the United States Zircon causes such a noticeable concern.
    They are only somewhat reassured by the fact that they can respond to 1 launch of zircon with clouds of missiles, both anti-aircraft, anti-ship and tomahawks.
    1. -1
      9 August 2019 21: 35
      Quote: yehat
      the rocket, as before, focuses on an explosion near the target and is quite powerful.

      Ours went further! Now it is a "controlled explosion cone", somewhere in the 60 * solid angle. This allows semi-finished heavy and light striking elements (shrapnel) to smash the warheads into chips. What amas still cannot boast of. Yes
      Something like this, however.
  26. +2
    9 August 2019 17: 26
    The main task for most of our missiles is the destruction of US cities and their military bases. There is no problem with target designation.
  27. 0
    9 August 2019 18: 40
    bet on high speed is not a guarantee of victory


    Not entirely true, or not true at all)) Modern tactics involve attack by carriers of PCs at low altitude. That is, carriers approach the attacked ships close enough, using the dead zone of the radar field. Close - it is up to 50 km. A hypersonic missile will overcome this distance so quickly that the enemy may simply not have time to react. Especially if the PCR has a reduced EPR and launches its stealth carrier.
  28. 0
    9 August 2019 18: 41
    And what will Zircon do when it flies into a given square and does not find its target? He will simply self-destruct
    Uh-uh ... Ah-ah-ah ... I hesitate to ask - where will the goal go ?! The impression is that the author considers the aircraft carriers to be submarines. Or did they learn to fly? Given the relative speed of the fastest ship and the Zircon, the only way to "get somewhere" is to drown in spite of the rocket. Is it possible to keep at least minimal logic in your plaintive "analyzes"?
    1. +1
      12 August 2019 23: 03
      For the most common parabolic antenna, the directivity factor is 60. 60 divided by the ratio of the antenna aperture to wavelength equals the angle resolution in degrees. For a distance of hundreds of kilometers, decimeter waves are suitable at best. Let the supposedly existing "Zircon" have a "Caliber" diameter = 533 mm. Hence the antenna aperture = 500, wavelength = 100 mm. Angular resolution = 60/5 = 12 degrees. At 500 km, this corresponds to an arc of 500 x 2pi x 12/360 = 105 kilometers. If there is one ship, and a dozen or so away from it there is another one, then for the "Zircon" they will merge into one target and he will aim at a piece of water in the middle between them.
    2. 0
      13 August 2019 09: 11
      Gentlemen, why are you talking so funny? One believes that in a couple of hours the ships will irreversibly disappear altogether from the missile detection zone, the other is engaged in some cool calculations from the book for 1956 year ...
      How much the same AUG can pass in a couple of three hours as much as possible? 60km? 90? Sorry, I won’t count them in nautical miles ... We get data on the location of the AUG. We shoot a rocket at this place. Due to the high trajectory, it gets the ideal position for detecting the enemy.
      Approaching approximately kilometers on 100 to the intended meeting place, the rocket begins to search for targets. Ships are huge metal arrays, and all attempts to reduce their radio visibility, and even when viewed from above, are only a cut in its purest form. So the discovery will be carried out. Especially for the helmsman - radar specialists are aware of the problems you posed for a very long time in the know. I assure you, the locator will distinguish between targets. Without the slightest difficulty.
      And the rocket has just an abyss of time to maneuver, aim, send the video to the CP for control ... we could still have some tea.
      1. 0
        13 August 2019 15: 53
        Right. Voice in the wilderness. )
      2. +1
        16 August 2019 22: 13
        Quote: Mikhail3
        We obtain data on the location of the AUG. We shoot a rocket at this place.


        What are the ways to detect AUG? Dear forum participant, the KAA Boa constrictor below thinks that any ship is automatically discovered around the clock on the main screen of the fleet's Central Command Center, accurate to the meter, with the help of some intelligence of some neighboring combat arms. Let's try to fill this one in his self-education. We take for the initial condition that the aircraft carrier is out of sight from our shore, otherwise it is not interesting. Here are the ways I can think of: a satellite, a surface ship by radar or visually, a submarine through the periscope, maybe something super-exotic, like a recruited agent on board a ship or a special forces officer on an inflatable boat, a spy in the Pentagon, visually from a civilian ship, visually from any type of aircraft, direction finding of its radar or radio broadcasts, ZGRLS, and finally helicopters / AWACS aircraft: Ka-25RC, IL-38, Tu-95RC (or Tu-142 or A-50). So, without going into long explanations about each of the methods, according to the experience of the Soviet Union, which worked them all thoroughly, in real life only one worked - the last of them. Everything else is ineffective or suitable only for peacetime, when the enemy does not oppose.

        Further, we come to the conclusion that if the enemy is so weak, stupid or careless, which allows the enemy Tu-95RTs to approach the aircraft carrier 200-300 km during a war, then no Zircon or Granit is needed. It is much easier to retrofit Tu-95s under anti-ship missiles, as the Americans made the B-52H to carry 12 Harpoons at once. Moreover, the Russian Tu-95 could carry not 12 missiles, but twenty, and not only subsonic ones, but a choice of Kh-35U or Kh-31A. The Chinese also went the same way, made their heavy bombers H-6 anti-ship missile carriers, first YJ-61, now they have been completed for four YJ-91 (analogue of the X-31A with an increased range). Russia should not show off with "Zircons", but go the same way, all the technologies have long been there. And the first step has already been taken: they were able to make the Il-38 a carrier of four X-35s, although they were Indian Il-38s.

        If the enemy is strong, wise and cunning and shoots down any aircraft at a long distance, then the Zircon is useless.

        Thus, the conclusion of shipbuilders all over the world, and Russian too: long-range ship-based supersonic missiles are not needed, and this conclusion is correct.

        Approaching approximately 100 kilometers to the proposed meeting place


        It generally depends on what is arriving, at what angle and at what speed. For example, "Pershing-2" turned on the radar at an altitude of 8 km (it could not be higher because of the warming up of the hood). I scanned the area with a viewing angle of 15 degrees, with a resolution of 1,5 degrees. One revolution of the radar lasted 0,5 s, another 0,5 s was spent on image processing and issuing a command. In this second, the Pershing flew three kilometers. The second correction took place at an altitude of five kilometers. The third is two kilometers. These three corrections provided him with an accuracy of 20 m, provided that there were well-defined relief details around the target. And to the starting point "Pershing" was supposed to arrive no further than a kilometer from the target. It is clear that the first and second conditions are possible only for a stationary ground target.

        Therefore, "Pershing" is a surface-to-surface missile, no one has ever even come close to fantasizing that it can aim at ships. "Iskander" in the version with radar guidance is also a ground-to-ground missile. "Dagger" is an aviation version of "Iskander", which means it is a missile. It was made anti-ship by dreamers from the yellow press. DF-21D - apparently also s-s, an approximate analogue of "Pershing". And her anti-ship was also made by dreamers. Well, "Zircon" is an entirely fictional fairytale character.
        1. 0
          17 August 2019 09: 42
          I am embarrassed to ask - what was the satellite constellation of the USSR? The number of satellites, equipment, communication capabilities? Do you know that you can get information not only from your satellite? But how many broadcast spies did Soviet spies have compared to the current ones? Have you heard that now beacons can issue packets of information directly to the satellite for years, having their own dimensions from half a fist? So you can continue for quite some time, go through the other methods of detecting the enemy ...
          Suddenly, you should not rely on your strategy and tactics in modern warfare based on the intelligence capabilities of the Napoleonic wars. Of course, if you are trying to defend your sacred right to do nothing, courting the medieval fusée that you were given once as a "weapon" ...
          Well, a couple of very minor comments, especially for the author of the post. Under the USSR, the position "decoding a satellite image" cost from 20 to 100 thousand dollars, depending on the detail. If you think that in order to fire a hypersonic missile, you need to approach the target 300 km, then I'm sorry for you ...
  29. +1
    9 August 2019 18: 44
    The author is absolutely right that Zircon will have to fly a marching section at an altitude of not less than 30 km (specifics of hypersonic flight), but he does not take into account the fact that the Amerov’s marching rocket fly at an altitude of 30 meters, the final one is 15 meters, it needs target designation, otherwise she will get lost, Zircon on his march will see the target with 300 km, he will be given target designation on the drum (it’s not necessary for nothing, and there’s no need for money).
  30. 0
    9 August 2019 20: 51
    Quote: War Dog
    means that C400 and C500 will also be useless.

    Colleague! These complexes have a completely different ideology inherent in the interception of airborne weapons! And the algorithms corresponding to it have been developed. Therefore, the amas, even having received "hardware", cannot in any way bungle something like that without our software ...
  31. 0
    9 August 2019 21: 16
    Higher speed = less time to counter.
  32. 0
    10 August 2019 00: 31
    The scope of hypersonic missiles can be expanded by considering the problem of asteroid hazard. In this case, the purpose of an ordered swarm is not to hit an object at an altitude of the first tens of kilometers, but to create an explosive "cushion" along the course of a falling space body.
    The Russian hypersonic Zircon expands the area of ​​a possible multi-echeloned braking system (not destruction, but braking) of an asteroid, in contrast to American hypersonic missiles.
    Of course, all the shortcomings justly noted by the author (including the vulnerability of the satellite guidance system first of all) lose their significance in the face of planetary danger.
  33. 0
    10 August 2019 10: 01
    I don’t remember which of our generals said this, even during the war with Napoleon: "Artillery must sacrifice itself, the loss of guns is paid off by the damage they inflict on the enemy."
  34. -2
    10 August 2019 17: 32
    Quote: SovAr238A
    High-altitude nuclear explosion jamming only AUG radars? And the electronic circuits of their missiles flying next - EMP will not touch? No?

    Yes, yes, yes - EMP penetrates any metal screen, such as metal shells of missiles: "School physics course for the 6th grade - no, I haven't heard" laughing
  35. -1
    11 August 2019 19: 20
    The author of the article is not from Israel by chance? He does not know the way to get the coordinates, and here he is trying to catch the information from simpletons from this site ????
  36. +1
    12 August 2019 01: 20
    Quote: Operator
    Quote: SovAr238A
    High-altitude nuclear explosion jamming only AUG radars? And the electronic circuits of their missiles flying next - EMP will not touch? No?

    Yes, yes, yes - EMP penetrates any metal screen, such as metal shells of missiles: "School physics course for the 6th grade - no, I haven't heard" laughing

    "The difference between a constant and an alternating electric field? No, I haven't!"
    A pulse induces currents in a metal shell, and these toui induce a magnetic field inside it. To isolate the magnetic field, you need to make a shell of a material with infinite magnetic permeability. But it will be a power transformer, and they do not fly
  37. +1
    12 August 2019 11: 21
    I looked at the American estimates of Zircon, their meaning is generally reduced to a simple dilemma: "If the Russians mastered the maneuver in the last section of the traketoriy, below 30 km," then we got it, if it just falls on the target, then it doesn't matter what speed there is ".

    Something like that, and it really comes down to this.

    I will say right away that a maneuver at eight strides in the dense layers of the atmosphere looks extremely doubtful, for a variety of reasons. So either the rocket slows down in the last leg of the flight, or the Americans will simply make another iteration of the Standard-X and devalue all our efforts.

    Theoretically, hypersonic flight at altitude helps to gain time, and if then the speed drops to about M = 4, and the trajectory before hitting the target is difficult, then reducing the speed is not critical. And on 4 sounds there may be some kind of maneuver.
  38. +1
    12 August 2019 21: 52
    To create a rocket that will fly several times farther than "Granite", several times faster, several times higher, but at the same time it will also weigh three times less - a fantasy, no matter what super magical modern technologies are used. If something remotely similar could be done, then Granit itself would have been modernized long ago.

    KBSM published detailed information on all types of missiles of all UVPs of current and future ships and submarines of the Russian fleet. There is no new special enlarged version of the UVP "for promising missiles" there. And the mines of "Granites" will not be remade under the ephemeral "Zircon". They are going to be replaced by UVP for "Calibers" on "Nakhimov" and 949s. If "Zircon" existed and was at any stage of testing, a ship would have been designed for it long ago. Nobody has ever seen any lousy model with a mine the size of "Granitnaya", as well as with anything other than UKSK 3S14. Thus, no one is even planning the Zircon carrier ship for the next decade. Hence the unambiguous conclusion: everything that is said about "Zircon" (at least about the ship-to-ship missile) is an invention from the first word to the last.
  39. +2
    12 August 2019 22: 32
    "Granite" against "Harpoon"

    "Granite" is about 12 times larger. This means that all linear dimensions are on average 2,3 times smaller. This means that all areas will be roughly 5,3 times larger. All other things being equal, the reflected signal on the radar will be 2,3 times stronger. The probability of being hit by a missile or missile fragment with a conventionally uniform spread will be 5 times higher. The probability of being hit by a bullet from Vulcan Phalanx will also be five times greater. At the same time, the Granit's speed is one and a half times higher (1.2 M versus 0.8 M), but due to the higher flight altitude (25 m and 5 m), the time that Granit is under fire will be less than only 1,08 times. If a bullet made a hole in Granite, the destruction due to the high-speed air pressure at a speed of Mach 1,2 will also be more serious than for the Harpoon.

    Supersonic anti-ship missiles were good against old girder air defense systems. The logic is this: they fired a missile launcher, missed, they no longer have time to recharge. But for UVP, a rate of fire per second, and even the HEADLIGHT, which can accompany almost twenty targets at a time, this does not work.

    It is not surprising that Granite has become a dead-end branch of evolution. There are already six modifications of the "Harpoon", it has been adopted for service in dozens of countries. And "Granita-2", 3, etc. is not and was never planned. And except for the USSR / Russia, no one else did any analogues. And in Russia the engineers ended up where the Americans started: "Uranus" is an approximate analogue of "Harpoon", "Caliber" - "Tomahawk-TASM".
  40. -1
    13 August 2019 10: 05
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    I looked at the American estimates of Zircon, their meaning is generally reduced to a simple dilemma: "If the Russians mastered the maneuver in the last section of the traketoriy, below 30 km," then we got it, if it just falls on the target, then it doesn't matter what speed there is ".

    Something like that, and it really comes down to this.

    I will say right away that a maneuver at eight strides in the dense layers of the atmosphere looks extremely doubtful, for a variety of reasons. So either the rocket slows down in the last leg of the flight, or the Americans will simply make another iteration of the Standard-X and devalue all our efforts.

    Theoretically, hypersonic flight at altitude helps to gain time, and if then the speed drops to about M = 4, and the trajectory before hitting the target is difficult, then reducing the speed is not critical. And on 4 sounds there may be some kind of maneuver.


    Here the missile guidance system is more critical than its speed. The missile may not be shot down, but crushed by interference. If there is only rlgsn without optics, then the rocket will be stupidly drowned out.
    1. -1
      13 August 2019 15: 48
      Integrated: satellite and ISN.
  41. -2
    13 August 2019 15: 46
    If a hypersonic warhead missile is maneuvering, then no radars available to date abroad and in Russia are able to track, and even more so, hit this target. It is because of its speed and maneuvering.
    The article is bullshit.
  42. 0
    26 January 2022 04: 51
    Greetings from 2022, where training launches of zircons have become commonplace