The failed leader of the revolution. Why was Gapon killed?

For a short time, a revolutionary priest gained immense popularity. Gapon believed that he would become the leader of the revolution. He urged Nicholas II to abdicate and betray himself to the people's court.


The failed leader of the revolution. Why was Gapon killed?

Russian priest, politician George Apollonovich Gapon (1870-1906). Portrait of an unknown artist


Preparing the revolution in Russia


Westerners and Japanese tried to unite various political groups hostile to the autocracy in order to arrange a revolution in Russia and ensure the victory of Japan in the war. A conference of various Russian opposition forces was organized in Paris. In October 1904, delegations of the Social Revolutionaries (Chernov, Nathanson, Azef), the Union of Liberation (Milyukov, Struve, Dolgorukov), the future party of the Cadets, from Finnish, Polish, Baltic, Transcaucasian, and other nationalists arrived in the French capital. Only the Social Democrats at the last moment refused. Plekhanov did not want to deal with the Japanese. The plan of the revolution was agreed at the conference: the socialist revolutionaries had to start large-scale terror, cause unrest; liberals organize legal pressure on the government, force it to make concessions.

Lenin, like Plekhanov, did not appear at this conference. However, he also had indirect contacts with the Japanese and British intelligence. In particular, he received money for the publication of his own newspaper Vperyod (the Plekhanovites survived him from Iskra), where he proved the necessity of defeating Russia and called for revolution. Sponsors of the revolution were in Russia itself. Many rich, bourgeois capitalists were inspired by revolutionary ideas and financed revolutionaries. Among the representatives of the financial and industrial capital of Russia there were two wings that opposed the autocracy. The first is Russian national capital, representatives of the Old Believers who hated the Romanov dynasty from the beginning of the split. For example, the largest manufacturer Savva Morozov. The second - representatives of international capital, mainly St. Petersburg financiers. They believed that autocracy was a brake on the development of capitalism in Russia.

The situation of the Russian Empire was aggravated by the weakness of power. In July 1904, the Socialist-Revolutionary Socialist-Revolutionaries, under the leadership of Azef and Savinkov, killed the Minister of the Interior Pleve. In the government, the counterweight to the liberal Westerner Witte was eliminated. Moreover, the Ministry of the Interior (one of the most important in the empire) was headed by the liberal Svyatopolk-Mirsky. Tight control of the opposition, the press and zemstvos immediately weakened.

In the fall of 1904, after the Paris Conference, the Liberation Union launched a “banquet campaign." The reason was specious - it was executed 40 years from the day of the Zemstvo reform of Alexander II the Liberator. Zemsky meetings began to hold banquets in various cities, which resulted in political meetings. Political demands were put forward there, calls for constitutional reforms began. Liberals begin to act in line with the socialists. In November, the All-Russian Zemstvo Congress was held.

Thus, in the Russian Empire they prepared a “revolutionary situation”. The opposition became insolent, believed in its strength and impunity. The Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Anarchists led revolutionary agitation. The labor movement intensified. Overseas revolution centers began deliveries weapons in Russia. However, all the outbreaks of discontent were weak, fragmented. To provoke one revolutionary wave, a powerful provocation was required.

Gapon


At the beginning of the XX century in St. Petersburg, priest George Apollonovich Gapon gained considerable popularity. He was born in the 1870 year and was a native of southern Russian peasants, from the Poltava region. In childhood, he lived the ordinary life of peasants, worked hard, was very religious. In elementary school, he showed good learning abilities, was given to the Poltava Theological College, then to the seminary. I got acquainted with the forbidden ideas of L. Tolstoy, which had a great influence on George.

He took the priesthood. He showed great talent as a speaker and preacher already in Poltava, where crowds of people flocked to listen to a young priest. After the sudden death of his young wife in 1898, Gapon entered the Theological Academy in St. Petersburg. He continued his spiritual search, visited the Crimea, local monasteries. In St. Petersburg, he began to participate in charity missions, education, and worked with workers. He worked in shelters, tried to help the inhabitants of the city "bottom". In his sermons, George proceeded from the idea that labor is the basis and meaning of life. Several times, Gapon was invited to serve on solemn holidays along with St. John of Kronstadt, who made a strong impression on him.

Emotional, energetic, with the gift of words, George won great authority among the workers and the poor. Soon he became popular in St. Petersburg court circles. Gapon had a special influence on the ladies of the capital. They saw in him almost a prophet who was to discover new truths and uncover the secrets of the teachings of Christ. The priest began fashion. Gapon has developed several reform projects for work houses, on agricultural penal colonies for the unemployed, the poor, etc.

Zubatovschina


In 1902, the head of the Special Department of the Police Department, Sergei Zubatov (a man of rare intelligence and capacity for work), who was in charge of political investigation, put forward the initiative that repressive measures are not enough. He proposed the creation under the auspices of the police of legal workers' organizations through which cultural and educational work could be carried out, and to defend the economic interests of workers in front of employers. Also inform the authorities about problems, violations of the law.

Thus, Zubatov wanted to tear the workers away from the revolutionary intelligentsia, to direct the labor movement into a professional direction. In the future, a social monarchy loomed. Workers, who became the leading political force in the country, could get everything peacefully, through the king and the government.

For the organization of trade unions leaders, bright educated people were required. In the fall of 1902, Zubatov proposed cooperation with Gapon. He agreed, but demanded complete independence. In his opinion, communication with the police scares workers away from such organizations and makes them an easy target for revolutionary agitators. George Gapon proposed the creation of a new labor organization following the example of independent British trade unions. Zubatov was against it.

After Zubatov was dismissed (due to a conflict with Pleve), Gapon received the support of the authorities. The "Assembly of Russian factory workers of St. Petersburg" was established, it first adhered to an educational, religious line. By the beginning of 1905, there were about 8 thousand people.


G. A. Gapon and I. A. Fullon at the opening of the Kolomenskoye department of the “Assembly of Russian Factory Workers of St. Petersburg”. Autumn 1904 of the year


Bloody Sunday


Without Zubatov, Gapon was left without control. The movement grew rapidly. Dark personalities appeared among the priest himself, like Krasin and the Socialist-Revolutionary Rutenberg. They skillfully crafted a cleric. Petersburg governor Fullon, sensing something was amiss, called Gapon and began to talk about the wrong direction of movement. Like, he was instructed to strengthen the Christian morality of the hearts of workers, and he is cultivating socialism. However, Gapon claimed that he was on the principles of religious morality.

In December 1904, four workers, members of the Gapon society, were fired at the Putilov factory. The priest asked the director to be reinstated. He somehow rested, refused. Then the workers began a strike. From assembly to assembly, their demands grew. Workers from other enterprises joined the Putilov workers. The strike became universal, the city stood up, was left without newspapers and coverage. Obviously, a certain mechanism of the beginning of the revolution worked, the sums required for this were serious, like the organization.

The frantic Gapon rushed from plant to plant, a talented speaker he was very popular. “The masters are crushing you,” the priest said, “and the government does not protect. But we have a king! He is our father, he will understand us! ”

6 (19) January 1905, on the feast of the Baptism of the Lord, George Apollonovich urged everyone to go to the sovereign, to submit a petition to him to improve the situation of workers. This idea was enthusiastically supported by the people. On January 6-8, thousands of workers signed the petition (according to Gapon himself, more than 100 thousand). The police offered to arrest the rebellious priest. However, the mayor of Fullon, learning that the guard of Gapon was armed, was horrified that there would be shooting, blood, a riot would begin, and forbade any action.

This was used by revolutionaries of all stripes. Around Gapon, the Social Democrats, the Socialist-Revolutionaries, and the Bundists were screaming. They played on the ambition of a priest, who, apparently, tore off the "roof" of popularity. He was called the people's leader, demanded to present political demands. Gapon’s closest comrade, Social Revolutionary Rutenberg said: “Just say a word and the people will follow you anywhere!” The priest himself already spoke of a popular revolt if Nicholas II refused the people. Economic demands were replaced by political ones: the convocation of the Constituent Assembly, civil liberties, a responsible government, political amnesty, peace with Japan on any conditions, etc. The leaders of the movement realized that everything would end in great blood, but they consciously made this sacrifice. It was necessary to raise all of Russia, to destroy the faith of the people in the tsar.

The tsar himself and his family were in Tsarskoye Selo. The government had two options: to defeat the movement by force, to arrest the instigators, or to convince the emperor to go to the people, to calm the people. Nicholas II was going to talk with the people, but his relatives convinced him not to. At the same time, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the secret police distorted real data. The day before, the security department presented the rally as a peaceful procession, with families, icons, and royal portraits. But the troops called in, at night the soldiers took up positions in the streets near the palace. On the morning of January 9 1905, crowds of workers moved to the royal palace. Among the workers with a high cross, Gapon also walked, and Rutenberg was near him. On the Obvodny Canal, a cordon of soldiers blocked the road. The workers were required to disperse.

When the shooting started (it was obvious that it was caused by provocation from both sides), the experienced terrorist Rutenberg threw the priest into the snow and took him out of a dangerous place. Events everywhere took place according to a similar scenario: the masses of people approached the outposts, did not respond to warnings, and, on the contrary, went forward with volleys into the air. Stones flew from the crowd, and it happened that they shot at soldiers. The military responded, panic began, blood was pouring, dead and wounded appeared. As a result, soldiers, Cossacks and policemen easily dispersed the crowds. But this was what the revolutionaries, the fifth column and the West needed. The revolution has begun.

Gapon was dressed, cut and hid in Gorky’s apartment. Already in the evening, having come to his senses, the priest called on the people to revolt "for the land and the will." This appeal was printed in huge print runs and distributed by the Social Revolutionaries throughout the empire. As a result, the provocation was a success. During the provocation, about 130 people died, about 300 were injured (including the "siloviki"). But the world community has repeatedly exaggerated the number of victims. The Western press voted about the horrors of tsarism (at the same time, in the West itself, all uprisings and riots were always crushed much harder, bloodier). This topic was immediately picked up by the Russian liberal press. Thus, blood was shed, the sacred image of the king was blackened, the beginning of the revolution was laid.


Gapon reads a petition in a meeting of workers. Unknown artist. Source: https://ru.wikipedia.org


Glory and death


Then Gapon was transported abroad. In February 1905, George was in Geneva - one of the main centers of the Russian revolutionaries. The noise was huge. All European newspapers wrote about the execution and Gapon. For a short time, a revolutionary priest gained immense popularity. He tried to unite the revolutionary parties, but without success. On his behalf, a regular conference of socialists, nationalist separatists was convened in Geneva. True, to combine them did not work.

Gapon became close to the Social Revolutionaries. Even for a short time he joined their party, but it did not work out. Gapon, in fact, was an "autocrat" himself, did not tolerate party discipline, believed that he would become the leader of the revolution, tried to subjugate the party to himself. He wrote revolutionary appeals, which were published by the Social Revolutionaries and imported into Russia. He was actively preparing for a new revolutionary speech, subjected the autocracy to the harshest criticism, and saw himself in the role of people's leader. He urged Nicholas II to abdicate and betray himself to the people's court.

Gapon was helped with money by various organizations, for a book of memoirs "History of my life ”received a large sum. By the fall of 1905, Gapon's relations with the revolutionary parties had noticeably worsened. The Social Democrats and Socialist-Revolutionaries feared his idea of ​​creating a non-partisan labor movement. The revolutionaries already had their own leaders; they did not need a competitor. Then the former priest (the Synod deprived him of the priesthood and spiritual status) made a new sharp turn. Using the amnesty, in November 1905, Mr. Gapon returned to Russia. He again established contacts with the police and held talks with Witte. He received money and began to restore workers' organizations. Gapon was supposed to campaign against armed rebellion and revolutionary parties, to promote non-violent methods. Now he advocated peace reform.

Thus, Gapon broke with his revolutionary reputation and took the path of confrontation with the revolutionaries. It was dangerous for the “fifth column”. Therefore, Azef (“Azef. The main provocateur of Russia and an agent of the West ") invites Rutenberg on behalf of the Central Committee of the party to eliminate Gapon. 28 of March (10 of April) 1906 of the year in Ozerki, the Social Revolutionaries, led by Rutenberg, kill the failed leader of the revolution.
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  1. andrewkor 7 August 2019 06: 30 New
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    Poor Russia, everyone who manipulates it from the Japs, the Jews to the "Englishwoman" and the Old Believers is manipulating it!
    But the Bolsheviks are not in the limit, and all the dogs are hung on them by unfinished liberalists!
    1. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 07: 14 New
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      Quote: andrewkor
      But the Bolsheviks are not in the limit, and all the dogs are hung on them by unfinished liberalists!

      everyone was in business there, everyone pursued his own goals, simply the Bolsheviks still did not have the authority that they later attributed to themselves in history textbooks.
      1. Tatyana 7 August 2019 08: 52 New
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        Thanks to the author for the current historical article!
        A very interesting article about Gapon and the revolution turned out! And, in principle, something in common with the current time

        I also read the comments of the participants in this article with great interest!

        Put this article to my favorites. More than once to her - to comprehend the story - I will return.
        1. Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 14 New
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          I agree with you: the article needs to be considered again and again and it is advisable to CHECK it
        2. Captain45 8 August 2019 23: 23 New
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          Quote: andrewkor
          andrewkor (Andrey Korchuganov) Yesterday, 06: 30
          +12

          Quote: Pedrodepackes
          Pedrodepacks (Alex) Yesterday, 07: 14
          +2

          Comment time 06: 30, then 07: 14 and ta-dam ..... drum roll ... in 08: 52 comment:
          Quote: Tatiana
          I also read the comments of the participants in this article with great interest!

          Well what can I say .... request
          1. Tatyana 8 August 2019 23: 44 New
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            Quote: Captain45
            Comment time 06: 30, then 07: 14 and ta-dam ..... drum roll ... in 08: 52 comment: Quote: Tatyana I also read the comments of the participants with great interest! Well, what can I say ... .

            Do not write nonsense! Your comment is incorrect.
            You are very late to the page. Prior to this, my comment on time below is written by the participants of "IN" 5 more comments!
            1. Captain45 9 August 2019 00: 37 New
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              Quote: Tatiana
              You are very late to the page.

              I didn’t come late, but if possible. unlike many, I work and don’t sit on tyranny for days on end, earning stars, so I read all 160 with more than one comment on the article, and before yours there were only two comments that absolutely did not develop the topic of the article. In this regard, your statement about interesting comments surprised me, to put it mildly.
              1. Tatyana 9 August 2019 01: 07 New
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                Quote: Captain45
                In this regard, your statement about interesting comments surprised me, to put it mildly.

                Come on! Do not worry! Anything can happen! yes
                I, so be it, return my indignant at you "-" to my "+" friendly to you. drinks
      2. Doliva63 8 August 2019 21: 35 New
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        Quote: Pedrodepackes
        Quote: andrewkor
        But the Bolsheviks are not in the limit, and all the dogs are hung on them by unfinished liberalists!

        everyone was in business there, everyone pursued his own goals, simply the Bolsheviks still did not have the authority that they later attributed to themselves in history textbooks.

        Come on. Everything was in order with the Bolsheviks with authority. Or did they win the Civil Revolutionaries? And so the Bolsheviks really were after 12 years. So do not spoil the story.
        1. Pedrodepackes 9 August 2019 06: 45 New
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          Quote: Doliva63
          Everything was in order with the Bolsheviks with authority.
          but they themselves in history textbooks for Soviet schoolchildren about the 1905 revolution and their role in it wrote a completely different thing.
          Quote: Doliva63
          Or did they win the Civil Revolutionaries?
          and the civilian we had in 1905 ?? recourse
          Quote: Doliva63
          And so the Bolsheviks really were after 12 years.
          really, on the eve of World War I, Lenin was thinking of screwing it in Mexico, because counted. that the revolution in Russia is futile, and drank beer throughout the war in Zurich.
          Quote: Doliva63
          So do not spoil the story.

          the search for truth, no matter how unpleasant it is, does not mean shitting somewhere.
    2. Catfish 7 August 2019 19: 23 New
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      Well, of course, not in business, otherwise there were no Jews among them. laughing If he is not a Jew, then he is obligatory with residency as the most important Leader of the world proletariat Ulyanov. What are you talking about, in general, my friend, thank Stalin for cutting out all this shusher, and at the same time for Latvians and Poles. I, too, the Russian revolution. Don’t tell the geese, not knowing the history of their country, don’t give a damn about its vicissitudes.
  2. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 06: 32 New
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    Rutenberg subsequently left for Palestine, having built a power station there at his own expense. Before that, he underwent the ritual of “the return of the prodigal son” - baptized Jews who asked to return to the bosom of Judaism, on their knees moved to the doors of the synagogue and got lashes on their backs and shoulders. In Zionist settlements portrayed a brutal macho. After a dispute with the future first Prime Minister of Israel, left alone with him, Ben-Gurion affectionately asked:
    Remember what happened to Gapon? Disagreements resolved in favor of Rutenberg laughing
    1. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 07: 34 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      Disagreements resolved in favor of Rutenberg

      Interestingly, and Rotenberg is not his offspring? what
      1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 08: 31 New
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        I don’t know, but in Israel his name is pronounced like Rotenberg))
    2. Moskovit 7 August 2019 08: 13 New
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      He was able to make offers that you can’t refuse))
      1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 08: 31 New
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        That's right))
      2. vladcub 7 August 2019 10: 17 New
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        You can refuse, but fraught with life
        1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 10: 27 New
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          The first settlers of that time were mostly immigrants from the Republic of Ingushetia, so they knew, plus or minus, who they were. Anyway, the whole Zionist party was somehow connected with different significant people in Europe - the right Zionist Zhabotinsky was friends with Gorky and K.I. Chuykovsky, the left Zionist Arlozorov was spinning an affair with the future Frau Goebbels, and Magdin himself spoke about him in his diaries as "student Hans." Kamal Ataturk, being a simple officer, was also friends with the Zionists, in particular with Ben-Huron. He loved to live with dignity, was not at all drunk to drink, and only Russian Jews could keep him company in drinking vodka from a teapot in the Palestinian heat laughing By the way, he was also friends with the Soviet Bolsheviks. )))
          1. Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 18 New
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            Goebbels and was friends with a Jew ?! Did Hitler know about this?
            1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 21: 40 New
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              Quote: Astra wild
              Goebbels and was friends with a Jew ?! Did Hitler know about this?

              Goebbels was not friends - his wife was “friends”, before the wedding
            2. Captain45 8 August 2019 23: 27 New
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              Quote: Astra wild
              Goebbels and was friends with a Jew ?! Did Hitler know about this?

              And to him (Hitler) to be indignant when he himself was a Jew at 1 / 4. Directly along Vysotsky - And there, a quarter of our former people. laughing
    3. atalef 7 August 2019 09: 47 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      Rutenberg subsequently left for Palestine, having built a power station there at his own expense. Before that, he underwent the ritual of “the return of the prodigal son” - baptized Jews who asked to return to the bosom of Judaism, on their knees moved to the doors of the synagogue and got lashes on their backs and shoulders. In Zionist settlements portrayed a brutal macho. After a dispute with the future first Prime Minister of Israel, left alone with him, Ben-Gurion affectionately asked:
      Remember what happened to Gapon? Disagreements resolved in favor of Rutenberg laughing

      Yes, thanks to Ruteberg.
      After his death, the electric company he founded, due to the lack of heirs, passed to his brother, and after the death of his brother - due to the absence of the heir, he became the property of the state.
      It was Rutenberg who established * socialist * working conditions for his workers as 13 salaries per year, and after 25 years of experience 14 salaries, it was he who said - my workers will not pay for electricity, workers of the electric company received everything from the company - starting from the tooth pasta and ending with clothes (not overalls, namely civilian clothes) - the state, having inherited an electric company, could not change the conditions for hiring permanent workers, so all this remains until today - well, except for toothpaste.
      We have something to thank Rutenberg for, but for hanging the traitor Gapon, probably you too
      1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 09: 52 New
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        Today it is necessary to remove this monopoly - IMHO. But if you work in the power supply - then do not laughing
        1. atalef 7 August 2019 09: 59 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          Today it is necessary to remove this monopoly - IMHO. But if you work in the power supply - then do not laughing

          For more than 25 years I have been working there and there is no monopoly since 1996 of the year.
          Now private traders generate more than 40%, and next year they will transfer 50%,
          What’s the difference?
          Yes, nothing, the price of electricity has remained the same and will remain so, and an employee of an electric company earns 2-3 times more than a private employee,
          What does this mean?
          That at the same price of electricity, someone gives the workers money, and someone takes all the money in his pocket.
          Otozh
          1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 10: 17 New
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            I will not argue))
        2. Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 19 New
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          Krasnodar, and you Yechida
    4. vladcub 7 August 2019 10: 14 New
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      "Remember what happened to Gapon" Do you want me to strangle you too? I already have experience.
      And where did he get the funds for the construction of a power plant?
      1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 10: 18 New
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        He was rich, little devil
      2. atalef 7 August 2019 10: 22 New
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        Quote: vladcub
        "Remember what happened to Gapon" Do you want me to strangle you too? I already have experience.
        And where did he get the funds for the construction of a power plant?

        He invented turbines for a power plant (hydro) with a low upstream, those for low dams.
        Then he came to England and received permission for monopolistic electricity production for a period of 75 years - that is why Hevrat Hashmal was a monopoly until 1996.
        The state accepts the inheritance of all previous laws from the Ottoman Empire to English laws, the time of the English mandate.
        And of course, the e-company was a joint-stock company, which it still is.
        Only the state has 96% of shares.
    5. Dym71 7 August 2019 10: 17 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      Ruthenberg subsequently left for Palestine, having built there at your own expense power station.

      With the assistance of the Rothschilds and creates the "Palestinian Electric Company", now "Hevrat Hashmal"

      He was an active nature, he had friendships with Kerensky, Zhabotinsky, Mussolini, with Churchill (Minister for Colonial Affairs in those days), he pledged more than once.
      One of the organizers of the American Jewish Congress, the Jewish Legion and the Haganah.
      1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 10: 34 New
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        He built the first power station for his loot, but the company - yes, with the money of the Rothschilds. There are other amounts. Mussolini at one time had a Soviet Jewish communist mistress, he called Jabotinsky “the Jewish Duce”, thus making him a compliment, but Ben-Gurion teased his political opponent with “Volodya Hitler”, which Vladimir Evgenievich was very indignant at))) )
        1. Dym71 7 August 2019 10: 49 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          He built the first power station for his loot

          The Socialist-Revolutionary Socialist Party stole or the stash of the Provisional Government stole, how to give a drink! bully
          After all, the last defender of the Winter Palace, after all, for which the Bolsheviks added him to the Peter and Paul Fortress, and then they released him, strange, isn't it?
          1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 11: 12 New
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            And bought the Bolsheviks? )))
            1. Dym71 7 August 2019 11: 18 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              And bought the Bolsheviks? )))

              No, you pity him! wassat
              1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 11: 19 New
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                They are golden people - they all thought about the future of Israel!
                1. Dym71 7 August 2019 11: 31 New
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                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  They are golden people - they all thought about the future of Israel!

                  Especially Maxim Gorky, on whose personal request Rutenberg was released. fellow
                  1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 11: 39 New
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                    Gorky loved the Zionists, and the Zionists loved Herzen, who was awakened by the Decembrists, terribly distant from the people ...
                    1. Dym71 7 August 2019 11: 46 New
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                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Gorky loved the Zionists, and the Zionists loved Herzen

                      Life is a moment in space
                      When the dream is gone
                      It's a lonelier place
                      I kiss the morning good-bye
                      But down inside you know
                      We never know why (Barbra Streisand) wassat
                      1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 11: 52 New
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                        I found out - a woman who makes love all
                        I am a woman in love & do anything laughing
                      2. Dym71 7 August 2019 12: 09 New
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                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        & do anything

                        “Girl, what are you doing tonight?”
                        - All!
                      3. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 12: 37 New
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                        The rapist attacks the girl, does what she does, and then lies next to her and smokes a cigarette. Yawns and asks:
                        - Will you write a statement?
                        - I will write
                        - And what do you indicate there?
                        - Walked in the park late at night, an unknown person began to rape me, raped me three times
                        - You are not ofigel? Once it was all ..
                        - Are you in a hurry somewhere?
                      4. Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 30 New
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                        And if this girl is your younger sister or daughter?
                        Jokers, there are a lot of jokes among us, but not everyone likes it when they torment it.
      2. VLR
        VLR 7 August 2019 16: 19 New
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        Nobody bribed the Bolsheviks - at first they were great idealists and believed everyone, like noble maidens from the Smolny Institute.
        Koltsov said that "the civil war in Russia began with honest words." And it is true. Under "honest word", Krasnov was not allowed to fight against the revolution. Purishkevich was released on receipt - and he fled to Kiev. And many more have just been released. Officers — under the “honest noble” - were released from the Cheka by thousands and tens of thousands, and “their nobles,” chuckling at the fools, fled south to Kornilov.
        The former head of the tsarist secret police Grigoryev recalled how he was released by the Bolsheviks from the Peter and Paul Fortress (put under the Provisional Government): some commissar came and began to ask who was sitting for what. When it came to the "satraps of the old regime", he said: they honestly served their government, why judge them? And they all released!
        Lunacharsky said:
        "Better surrender than terror."
        Do you know the first decree of the Bolsheviks? Who does not know, never guesses! Decree on the abolition of the death penalty!
        Everything changed after the attempt on Lenin - from that time the Red Terror began. It was an answer to the White Terror. It was the Whites who unleashed the Civil War in Russia, and even the US President Woodrow Wilson admitted this.
        1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 16: 31 New
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          And I thought that the first was the Decree on Peace. As for the whites, I agree. Those are still ghouls.
          1. VLR
            VLR 7 August 2019 16: 37 New
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            You are right, you had to write - "one of the first." World Decree - 26 of October, on the abolition of the death penalty - 28.
          2. Dym71 7 August 2019 16: 55 New
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            Quote: Krasnodar
            And I thought that the first was the Decree on Peace.

            Similarly, but by this I checked!

            [/ Center]
            1. VLR
              VLR 7 August 2019 17: 26 New
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              Yes, already apologized above. In front of you, too.
              1. Dym71 7 August 2019 17: 32 New
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                Quote: VlR
                Yes, already apologized above. In front of you, too.

                Trifles, this is something everyday! (with) yes
          3. Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 35 New
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            In a civil war there are no good or bad. Some are more decent, while others are finished bastards
            1. Catfish 7 August 2019 19: 40 New
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              Astra, ma'am love . And you are ready right now to name the "good and bastards" on either side. We are not here for a bottle of dry with friends to find out the relationship. If there is nothing to say in the case, then it may be better not to say anything at all. hi
      3. Sugar Honeyovich 8 August 2019 16: 21 New
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        He bought the German General Staff. For German money .... laughing
  • Astra wild 7 August 2019 21: 09 New
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    He has a hard look: such an opponent will strangle and not blink an eye
  • sidoroff 7 August 2019 17: 58 New
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    oh these storytellers. Rutenberg died in 1942. and until his death he had a much greater authority and influence in Palestine than a party
    figure Ben Gurion.
    1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 22: 02 New
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      Quote: sidoroff
      oh these storytellers. Rutenberg died in 1942. and until his death he had a much greater authority and influence in Palestine than a party
      figure Ben Gurion.

      The party and social leader of the Palestinian socialists, who were the majority, was David Ben-Gurion - Man and Airport fellow
      1. sidoroff 8 August 2019 11: 49 New
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        during the life of Rutenberg, "it’s like a carpenter versus a carpenter."
        1. Krasnodar 8 August 2019 11: 53 New
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          If you are talking about political influence in Yeshuv - that is, Jewish settlements, Ben-Gurion was the leader of the majority, if you are talking about the ability to promote something concrete through the British administration - then Rutenberg.
  • Catfish 7 August 2019 19: 29 New
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    Do you think that why Trotsky did not have the intelligence to go there, there were no Sikeiroses, although these people have enough. But still ... It's strange, because if you run away to a Jew somewhere, then, probably, to Palestine. And there, even heroically, you can die in protecting the promised land, and not from the banal ax of an ordinary fanatic.
    1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 22: 05 New
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      Trotsky did not particularly consider himself a Jew - in the first place. Zionism is contrary to his teachings - he was against nation-states, especially projects, as such - in the second. Stalin was very popular among most Jews in Palestine - so he could die there even faster - in third.
      1. Catfish 7 August 2019 22: 44 New
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        I believe that it does not matter who Trotsky considered himself, but it is important who he was and from whom he received money in America. Trotsky was a Jew and received money "for revolution" from American banks. And among the owners of these banks there were no non-Jews. And now, no.
        And Stalin was popular among the Jews of Palestine when he sent tankers with military experience there to fight in French junk for the glory of the Promised Land.
        1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 23: 21 New
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          lol
          1) I will tell you a terrible secret - there are no more than 20% of Jews in the board of modern American commercial banks, and then there were no Jews except Rothschild branches)) Modern Amer Jews open investment banks to circumvent the tacit opposition to their penetration into the sphere of commercial finance by WAPs))
          2) laughing Stalin planted tankers and other Soviet Jews who wanted to fight for the promised - during the War of Independence, the Israelites were mainly Kromveli, and French tanks appeared closer to the mid-50s, and completely new and advanced for that time))
          1. Catfish 8 August 2019 00: 12 New
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            A tank company, equipped with Russian-speaking tankers, at the end of the forties fought precisely on the Renault F-17. In the second company there was a hodgepodge, including even one Sherman “Fairfly”. If you want to know a more accurate composition, read A. Patients "Tank Wars of the XNUMXth Century". hi
            1. Krasnodar 8 August 2019 00: 39 New
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              I’ll tell you more precisely - at the beginning of the War of Independence of Israel, within the framework of the so-called The “Armored Service” created the 8th brigade, consisting of 13 tanks - 10 reenos, 2 Cromwell and one firefly Sherman. The emigrants who served in the WWII under the banner of the Polish Army and the Anders Army, as well as the natives of Palestine who spoke with them in Russian at first, understood by both of them, were on the M4 - American Jews, on Cromwell - volunteers from the Commonwealth countries and local . Then the Shermans bought in Italy took part in this war on the southern front, against the Egyptians, as support for the infantry.
              In principle, the M4 and became the basis of the Israeli BTV. But the first French tanks that were massively delivered to Israel, became the AMX-13 hi
              1. Catfish 8 August 2019 01: 40 New
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                Lord, well, I wrote about what time I’m talking about. And here Sherman and AMHshki, we are talking about when the state and this was practically nonexistent. Remember, when the star of Moshe Dayan first ascended, I’m talking about this time. Then, Stalin also promoted the idea of ​​creating a Jewish state, and AMX-13, this is a completely different stage. Read our modern historians, there are no anti-Semitic idiots, rather the opposite. But everything is literally in numbers. Why argue, you just need to take a book and see. Not satisfied, go to the network and look for other data. And about the "Sherman's firefly," I myself said. Moreover, another story is how these guys bought decommissioned Shermanyugs from the British. Song... soldier
                1. Krasnodar 8 August 2019 02: 01 New
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                  Ah, well at that time - yes. Only the tankers were not Soviet and not sent by Stalin, but in the French junk, of course, mostly
                  1. Catfish 8 August 2019 02: 09 New
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                    Damn, well again ... Well, you at least read the story of the creation of the state of Israel. Why should I, not a Jew, have to prove something to you, a Jew, as I believe. Well, read about the composition of the very first tank crews, at least for the Patients, at least on the network, or do you always need to be the most right? Or left, or, well, it's all to a single hair dryer. soldier
                    1. Krasnodar 8 August 2019 07: 37 New
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                      I read a lot about this, including in Hebrew, but - let's not argue! drinks
                    2. Catfish 8 August 2019 16: 12 New
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                      Lada, a colleague, I accept the offer and will be engaged in a "case" just on the topic of your emoticon. drinks
  • Sayan 7 August 2019 07: 08 New
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    Nothing changes except the names ...
  • bober1982 7 August 2019 07: 49 New
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    Gapon deliberately led people to be shot, on the so-called "bloody" Sunday, he knew that the king not only rejected the petition, but also ordered the authors of the petition to be arrested, and the king was not going to listen to the protesters.
    Thus, Gapon ........... took the path of confrontation with the revolutionaries ........ Therefore, Azef offers ...... to eliminate Gapon. , this conclusion is made by the author of the article.
    In my opinion, it is not entirely true, Azef was profitable to kill Gapon, accusing him of collaborating with the secret police, and thereby relieve himself of suspicions of having links with the secret police.
    Gapon “played up” - he loved money, women, fame, annoyed many.
  • Boris55 7 August 2019 07: 51 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    It was beneficial for Azef to kill Gapon, accusing him of collaborating with the secret service, and thereby relieve himself of his suspicions of having connections with the secret service.

    Today, the role of Gapon’s priest is played by Navalny ... and he is accused of being associated with the Kremlin ...
    1. vladcub 7 August 2019 12: 25 New
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      Boris, if only the USA - the Kremlin then agrees
      1. aakvit 7 August 2019 13: 24 New
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        So they “blame” it, but do not prove it with facts in their hands! wassat
    2. Catfish 7 August 2019 19: 49 New
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      If you knew everything one hundred percent, it would be easier. Bulk is not the light in the window, but about Gapon no matter how you say, there will still not be comprehensive information. Do you have complete information? I do not have. Bulk man is unpleasant and sits on someone else's money, I think that I am not mistaken. But I have no documentary evidence. And you can chat about anything and about anything, incl. and about Gapon. I believe that "talking on this subject spoils the nervous system." (WITH).
      We can get to the truth only by proving the serious "Arguments and Facts".
      It’s not worth arguing, it’s easier to say. drinks
  • parusnik 7 August 2019 07: 56 New
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    [B]
    On his behalf, a regular conference of socialists, nationalist separatists was convened in Geneva. True, to combine them did not work. [
    /bapter....Ezheli, a conference of various political forces in 1904 was raised with Japanese money .... But who invested in this conference ..? smile The author, if you already write about the sources of financing, so indicate everywhere ... And then somehow purple ..: On his behalf ... collected .. Who collected? Who financed? Forces of the West or Forces of the East? smile
  • Aviator_ 7 August 2019 08: 15 New
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    Met the forbidden ideas of L. Tolstov

    Well, probably with ideas L. N. Tolstoy, so you need to write.
    1. Korsar4 7 August 2019 09: 57 New
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      I agree. The eye clenched.
  • free 7 August 2019 09: 14 New
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    where he proved the necessity of defeating Russia
    Do not remind the author when and where Lenin called for the defeat of Russia.
    1. bober1982 7 August 2019 09: 31 New
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      Quote: free
      when and where did Lenin call for the defeat of Russia.

      If you don’t take offense, then I will answer.
      Such famous slogans and theses by Lenin were during the great war, see article, "On the defeat of his government during the imperialist war"
      In order not to bore Leninist statements - it is easier to re-read Lenin in the MSS.
      1. free 7 August 2019 09: 31 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: free
        when and where did Lenin call for the defeat of Russia.

        If you don’t take offense, then I will answer.
        Such famous slogans and theses by Lenin were during the great war, see article, "On the defeat of his government during the imperialist war"
        In order not to bore Leninist statements - it is easier to re-read Lenin in the MSS.


        What to be offended. I will re-read. And I will answer.
        1. bober1982 7 August 2019 09: 38 New
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          Okay, Lenin, a great thinker (what to take from him), but when the St. Petersburg girl students sent a congratulatory telegram to the Japanese emperor on the occasion of the defeat of the Russian army - that was the bottom, the time of the Empire was numbered.
          1. free 7 August 2019 10: 25 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            Okay, Lenin, a great thinker (what to take from him), but when the St. Petersburg girl students sent a congratulatory telegram to the Japanese emperor on the occasion of the defeat of the Russian army - that was the bottom, the time of the Empire was numbered.


            Female students should be responsible for themselves. They are not related to Lenin.
            1. bober1982 7 August 2019 10: 34 New
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              Quote: free
              Female students let them answer for themselves

              The point is not in them, but in the fact that the situation in Russia itself was so rotten that it was already impossible to correct the situation.
              1. free 7 August 2019 12: 14 New
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                Quote: bober1982
                Quote: free
                Female students let them answer for themselves

                The point is not in them, but in the fact that the situation in Russia itself was so rotten that it was already impossible to correct the situation.


                Who was to blame for this rotten environment? And what had to be done?
                1. bober1982 7 August 2019 12: 27 New
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                  This was the end of Imperial Russia, long before 1917, and weak power was to blame, but this did not mean to smash, destroy the state itself, or wish defeat for its government.
                  1. free 7 August 2019 12: 33 New
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                    Quote: bober1982
                    This was the end of Imperial Russia, long before 1917, and weak power was to blame, but this did not mean to smash, destroy the state itself, or wish defeat for its government.


                    Why was the king’s power weak? What was its weakness expressed in?
                    1. bober1982 7 August 2019 12: 47 New
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                      The imperial power in Russia has outlived itself, it simply rotted completely, and this rotting has been going on for all three centuries, in fact, this power has become anti-people, and this is worth admitting, although I am a monarchist by conviction. But, by 1917, the people themselves were no better.
                      It is enough to read the works of our great Orthodox ascetics, saints and the righteous of the XIX century ........... around disbelief, lack of authority and drunkenness
                      Russia was doomed, and they cleverly took advantage of it.
                      1. free 7 August 2019 13: 11 New
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                        Quote: bober1982
                        The imperial power in Russia has outlived itself, it simply rotted completely, and this rotting has been going on for all three centuries, in fact, this power has become anti-people, and this is worth admitting, although I am a monarchist by conviction. But, by 1917, the people themselves were no better.
                        It is enough to read the works of our great Orthodox ascetics, saints and the righteous of the XIX century ........... around disbelief, lack of authority and drunkenness
                        Russia was doomed, and they cleverly took advantage of it.


                        And what was the weakness of tsarist power expressed in?
                      2. bober1982 7 August 2019 13: 25 New
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                        Quote: free
                        And what was the weakness of tsarist power expressed in?

                        As an example, there were many October 17 Manifesto 1905 of the yearInstead of forcefully dispersing all those who disagree, they made criminal concessions, and they themselves were ruined.
                      3. free 7 August 2019 13: 31 New
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                        Quote: bober1982
                        Quote: free
                        And what was the weakness of tsarist power expressed in?

                        As an example, there were many October 17 Manifesto 1905 of the yearInstead of forcefully dispersing all those who disagree, they made criminal concessions, and they themselves were ruined.


                        Is economic dependence on Western countries not weakness, but a poor, disenfranchised, embittered population that does not support the government is not weakness?
                      4. Cat man null 7 August 2019 13: 40 New
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                        Quote: free
                        Is economic dependence on Western countries not weakness, but a poor, disenfranchised, embittered population that does not support the government is not weakness?

                        Are you talking about RI now?
                      5. bober1982 7 August 2019 13: 43 New
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                        You argue from a class position, by the way, I try not to speak from religious positions (so as not to annoy many, if possible)
                        St. Ignatius Brianchaninov and St. Righteous John of Kronstadt spoke not only about nationwide drunkenness and lack of authority, but also about their causes, then the bitterness of the population becomes clear. They forgot God, therefore, with such ease and began to raise the forks of the landowners.
                        Or, as Ilyin put it .......... Holy Russia faded in three days .....
                      6. free 7 August 2019 13: 45 New
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                        They forgot God, so with such ease and began to raise the forks of the landowners
                        Seriously?
                        Or maybe it’s impossible to live like that? Along with growing literacy (political and economic, which is the merit of the Communists) and self-awareness. Not?
                      7. Cat man null 7 August 2019 13: 58 New
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                        Quote: free
                        They forgot God, so with such ease and began to raise the forks of the landowners

                        Seriously?
                        Or maybe it’s impossible to live like that? Together with growing literacy

                        (lazily): no-her ... simply, when they lifted the first one, they didn’t bother to raise them on the head, it’s significant. And the second - did not bother. And then - a chain reaction ... dominoes, practically request
                      8. free 7 August 2019 14: 20 New
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                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Quote: free
                        They forgot God, so with such ease and began to raise the forks of the landowners

                        Seriously?
                        Or maybe it’s impossible to live like that? Together with growing literacy

                        (lazily): no-her ... simply, when they lifted the first one, they didn’t bother to raise them on the head, it’s significant. And the second - did not bother. And then - a chain reaction ... dominoes, practically request


                        That is, it was necessary to shoot more, right? Nehai feel sorry for them still being born, by the way I know one thing, he said that about 30 million who did not fit into the market economy. Do you also hold such views?
                      9. Cat man null 7 August 2019 14: 26 New
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                        Quote: free
                        That is, it was necessary to shoot more, right?

                        In, well done ... he asked himself - he answered himself. Revlutsioner, do not take away laughing

                        Quote: free
                        Do you hold these views too?

                        No, I think easier: a power that cannot support the order it has established is not power, but a rag.

                        Refute, since not laziness wink

                        PS: "nayhay" there - out of place. And what you had in mind here is obscene. And not only here, by the way.
                      10. free 7 August 2019 14: 33 New
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                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Quote: free
                        That is, it was necessary to shoot more, right?

                        In, well done ... he asked himself - he answered himself. Revlutsioner, do not take away laughing

                        Quote: free
                        Do you hold these views too?

                        No, I think easier: a power that cannot support the order it has established is not power, but a rag.

                        Refute, since not laziness wink

                        PS: "nayhay" there - out of place. And what you had in mind here is obscene. And not only here, by the way.


                        Nekhai means nothing if you are not in the know.
                        Kohl nothing to say, you again began to bustle.
                        Unfortunately for you again free.
                      11. Cat man null 7 August 2019 14: 41 New
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                        Quote: free
                        Nekhay means nothing if you do not know

                        Well, yes, of course (s).

                        Nekhai - "let it go," orl., Kursk., Tamb., Ukp ...

                        "Nothing", not "nothing", buddy ... however, modern "revolutionaries" tend to confuse letters and in general, grammar is not their hobby request

                        Quote: free
                        Unfortunately for you again free

                        Well, that's nice. A free circus is great! laughing
                      12. free 7 August 2019 14: 43 New
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                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Quote: free
                        Nekhay means nothing if you do not know

                        Well, yes, of course (s).

                        Nekhai - "let it go," orl., Kursk., Tamb., Ukp ...

                        “Nothing”, but not “nothing”, buddy ... however, modern “revolutionaries” tend to confuse letters and in general, grammar is not their hobby request

                        Quote: free
                        Unfortunately for you again free

                        Well, that's nice. A free circus is great! laughing


                        Well, if you are in the role of a clown, I’ll probably look, though not an amateur.
                      13. Cat man null 7 August 2019 14: 47 New
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                        Quote: free
                        if you are in the role of a clown, perhaps I’ll look

                        Don't ... in the mirror, buddy, in the mirror yes laughing
                    2. Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 47 New
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                      But modern counterrevolutionaries are so well-mannered
                2. vladcub 7 August 2019 14: 56 New
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                  The cat, although not completely agree, but to you +
          2. bober1982 7 August 2019 13: 59 New
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            Quote: free
            Or maybe it’s impossible to live like that?

            Did paradise life come then? It was a real hell, for an already embittered population, but there were no manifestos for them to grant freedoms, rallies, marches and petitions. The new government did not stand on ceremony with the barefoot into which all segments of the population turned.
          3. free 7 August 2019 14: 09 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            Quote: free
            Or maybe it’s impossible to live like that?

            Did paradise life come then? It was a real hell, for an already embittered population, but there were no manifestos for them to grant freedoms, rallies, marches and petitions. The new government did not stand on ceremony with the barefoot into which all segments of the population turned.


            Did paradise life come then?
            Which Communist promised heavenly life? This is the prerogative of the priests.

            The new government did not stand on ceremony with the barefoot into which all segments of the population turned
            This is not true. The new government did not stand on ceremony with those who took the position of the return of the autocracy. The essence of the return of capital production relations.

            And the most important.
            Have we talked about what happened then? No! We talked about what caused the brewing of the revolutionary situation, these reasons are the expression of the weakness of the tsarist government.
          4. bober1982 7 August 2019 14: 25 New
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            Quote: free
            Which Communist promised heavenly life? This is the prerogative of the priests.

            Any Orthodox is afraid of death for the reason that he knows about his fate in the afterlife - nothing good, scary. In this sense, all kinds of atheists are good; they are fearless. So, the priests (as you put it) do not promise paradise life, unlike socialists and communists.
          5. free 7 August 2019 14: 29 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            And the most important thing.
            Have we talked about what happened then? No! We talked about what caused the brewing of the revolutionary situation, these reasons are the expression of the weakness of the tsarist government.


            Have we talked about what happened then? No! We talked about what caused the brewing of the revolutionary situation, these reasons are the expression of the weakness of the tsarist government.
            What is this reason?

            So, the priests (as you put it) do not promise paradise life, unlike socialists and communists.
            Give an example of the promise of heavenly life by the Communists.
          6. bober1982 7 August 2019 14: 56 New
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            Quote: free
            Give an example of the promise of heavenly life by the Communists.

            Freedom equality Brotherhood
            All power to the people!
            Life has become better, it has become more fun
            Factories and plants - to workers, land - to peasants.
          7. free 7 August 2019 15: 07 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            Quote: free
            Give an example of the promise of heavenly life by the Communists.

            Freedom equality Brotherhood
            All power to the people!
            Life has become better, it has become more fun
            Factories and plants - to workers, land - to peasants.


            And where is paradise? He is paradise, it is not clear where, even the priests do not know.
            And all that you have listed is achievable here in real life.
            Life has become better, it has become more fun
            And what has not happened? Compared with RI, has it not?
            Factories and plants - to workers, land - to peasants
            Exactly so, in collective ownership.
          8. bober1982 7 August 2019 15: 10 New
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            Quote: free
            Exactly so, in collective ownership.

            Orders were only too strict, so to speak.
  • Sugar Honeyovich 8 August 2019 17: 33 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    They forgot God, therefore, with such ease and began to raise the forks of the landowners.

    And before that God was remembered? In Pugachev region, for example?
  • bober1982 8 August 2019 18: 00 New
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    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    And before that God was remembered? In Pugachev region, for example?

    No, they also forgot, by the way, under Pugachev, there were executions of priests and pogroms of Churches (!!!!!) Everything went on increasing, in the sense, it’s not so simple that the God-fearing Russian people turned into a slaughter and shameless herd (by 1917), because preliminary preparation was carried out (not one century, this same preparation was), of course everything was correctly done, demons, damn it, scum, I mean Stenka Razin (demonic bastard)
  • Sugar Honeyovich 9 August 2019 11: 28 New
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    And before that there was a split. And before that - the Time of Troubles with Bolotnikov. And before that (and after that) - all sorts of heresies. But was the Russian people generally “God-fearing”? And did he "forget" God? Maybe he never knew him?
  • bober1982 9 August 2019 11: 57 New
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    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    And did he "forget" God? Maybe he never knew him?

    Heresy and schisms began two thousand years ago, and the process itself was progressing, holy. Ignatius Brianchaninov lamented that monasticism had lost its purpose, and this was said in the middle of the XNUMXth century. This is as a small representative example.
    That is, the departure from God affected everyone and everything - from century to century, from Bolotnikov, to Razin and Pugachev, etc., and there is nothing unexpected here, the final end is well known - this is said in the Holy Books.
  • free 13 August 2019 18: 42 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    And before that God was remembered? In Pugachev region, for example?

    No, they also forgot, by the way, under Pugachev, there were executions of priests and pogroms of Churches (!!!!!) Everything went on increasing, in the sense, it’s not so simple that the God-fearing Russian people turned into a slaughter and shameless herd (by 1917), because preliminary preparation was carried out (not one century, this same preparation was), of course everything was correctly done, demons, damn it, scum, I mean Stenka Razin (demonic bastard)


    But why did they forget so often? Is it because the church in particular and faith in general could not give an answer to current questions and could not indicate a way out of this situation?
  • bober1982 13 August 2019 19: 01 New
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    Quote: free
    Why so often forgotten?

    It’s easier to live like that, as they would say now - more comfortable, there is no God, so everything is possible, as one character said.
    Quote: free
    could not indicate a way out of this situation?

    It is taught that the commandments are kept, that’s the way out, it’s another matter that it’s hard to follow such advice, including Pugachev’s.
  • free 13 August 2019 19: 06 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: free
    Why so often forgotten?

    It’s easier to live like that, as they would say now - more comfortable, there is no God, so everything is possible, as one character said.
    Quote: free
    could not indicate a way out of this situation?

    It is taught that the commandments are kept, that’s the way out, it’s another matter that it’s hard to follow such advice, including Pugachev’s.


    So the priests endure taldychat now and you will be rewarded. And to the question of what will I endure when others oppress and rob me they can’t answer anything intelligible. Can you tell me?
  • bober1982 14 August 2019 07: 47 New
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    Quote: free
    Can you tell?

    Without me, there is someone to say.
    Quote: free
    And the question of what will I endure when others oppress and rob me, they can’t answer anything intelligible

    Very clearly even the priests answer .......... the world lies in evilif translated into world language ....... there is no happiness in life.
  • free 14 August 2019 21: 25 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: free
    Can you tell?

    Without me, there is someone to say.
    Quote: free
    And the question of what will I endure when others oppress and rob me, they can’t answer anything intelligible

    Very clearly even the priests answer .......... the world lies in evilif translated into world language ....... there is no happiness in life.


    The fact that the world is unfair, and so I know, I don’t need explanations for that. I’m wondering what the clergymen are saying on what question. How to get out of the situation when the world around is so unfair, what should I do?
  • bober1982 14 August 2019 21: 34 New
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    Quote: free
    how to get out of a situation where the world around is so unfair, what should be done?

    To isolate oneself from him, not to live according to his laws.
  • free 14 August 2019 22: 31 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: free
    how to get out of a situation where the world around is so unfair, what should be done?

    To isolate oneself from him, not to live according to his laws.


    From how? That is, let the weak suffer, let the tears of the innocent pour. And I will fence myself off. I’m not weak and not cowardly, I’m simply "above the worldly vanity." So what?
    This is the reactionary essence. To call for humility to the oppressors through fencing off from the world.
  • bober1982 15 August 2019 07: 21 New
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    Quote: free
    I’m just “above the worldly vanity.” So what?

    What’s bad here? By the way, Dostoevsky, the Bolshevik authorities declared a reactionary writer, he was even banned. Here you have a visual representation of the so-called myth of the reactionary essence.
  • free 15 August 2019 16: 54 New
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    That is, let the weak suffer, let the tears of the innocent pour
    . And I'm fenced off and that’s it. I’m just "above the worldly fussWhat’s bad here?

    Here is your answer, it will be more true.
    And you confirmed the “myth” once again. Personally.
  • Kronos 7 August 2019 15: 29 New
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    It will not work to disperse the dissent all the time; it will only intensify the explosion; instead, it is necessary to carry out reforms to improve the life of the people, but what kind of capitalist wants to deprive himself of raising the lives of the people
  • Sugar Honeyovich 8 August 2019 16: 50 New
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    Simply put, the lower classes do not want, and the upper ones cannot (and also do not want)? The classic situation!
  • Sugar Honeyovich 8 August 2019 17: 32 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Instead of forcefully dispersing all those who disagree, they made criminal concessions, and they themselves were ruined.

    Because there were so many dissenters that the threat of dispersal (or worse) of the government itself was seriously raised. What actually happened. Only not in 1905 ....
  • bober1982 8 August 2019 17: 54 New
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    The tsar was very kind, it was necessary for Stalin to solve all problems - he solved this problem (although, not completely, the demons are very tenacious)
  • Sugar Honeyovich 9 August 2019 04: 44 New
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    The point is not in kindness, but in the fact that the majority supported Stalin, but opposed the tsar.
  • bober1982 9 August 2019 12: 01 New
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    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    What actually happened. Only not in 1905 ....

    In 1905, the army and the gendarmerie were not corrupted, in 1917 power could be taken with bare hands, there was nowhere to wait for help.
  • free 13 August 2019 18: 49 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    What actually happened. Only not in 1905 ....

    In 1905, the army and the gendarmerie were not corrupted, in 1917 power could be taken with bare hands, there was nowhere to wait for help.


    The question is why and where has all this time been the hope of the king and his boyars and policemen and advisers? And if they were so good and right, what did this people heed to them? Unlucky with the people?
  • vladcub 7 August 2019 14: 51 New
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    Beaver, let's discuss with you a little bit.
    1) in your opinion, it turns out that the empire was originally a “wrong product”, but in which case what is the best form of government? But remember that in the courtyard is not the 21st century., But 18
    2) for that matter, the most “popular,” power is in the archaic community, when there were no rich and poor.
    My opinion: a monarchy could exist in Russia if: yes, it was legally fixed that RI is a constitutional monarchy. And then, in fact, the Republic of Ingushetia evolved to constitutional, and the day continued to be an absolute monarchy of the late 18th century.
  • bober1982 7 August 2019 15: 17 New
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    Quote: vladcub
    the empire was originally t.s. "mistaken product", but in this case, what is the best form of government?

    It was the Moscow kingdom, with devout Russian tsars, then the future emperor Peter the Great began to open a window to Europe, hence the problems in the future.
  • Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 58 New
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    Here is he who is responsible for the troubles of RI - the founder. Tolley cares for Peter the Great: the king will collect two dozen idiots, take a steam bath in fur coats, but he’s so close to the people.
    You probably have: "Domostroy" favorite book?
  • bober1982 7 August 2019 18: 10 New
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    Quote: Astra wild
    Here is he who is responsible for the troubles of RI - the founder.

    That's just the point - yes.
    All three hundred years went on self-destruction, and in 1917 - a well-known result. Who can be distinguished - Nicholas I, Alexander the Third and Nicholas II.
    The first - was able to firmly hold power in his hands, the second - was able to restore order, but only having driven the revolutionary rabble underground, the third - was martyred.
  • free 7 August 2019 15: 23 New
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    Quote: vladcub
    Beaver, let's discuss with you a little bit.
    1) in your opinion, it turns out that the empire was originally a “wrong product”, but in which case what is the best form of government? But remember that in the courtyard is not the 21st century., But 18
    2) for that matter, the most “popular,” power is in the archaic community, when there were no rich and poor.
    My opinion: a monarchy could exist in Russia if: yes, it was legally fixed that RI is a constitutional monarchy. And then, in fact, the Republic of Ingushetia evolved to constitutional, and the day continued to be an absolute monarchy of the late 18th century.


    RI was not an erroneous product. RI was a consistent (capitalist) stage in the development of society. One cannot jump from feudalism to socialism past the stage of capitalism. Because a certain level of development of productive forces is necessary. Capitalism in relation to feudalism is a more progressive social system, which allows raising the level of development productive forces are a step higher. That is why the monarchy was doomed, it was for this reason that the Russian bourgeoisie threw off the tsar. Socialism is the next step behind capitalism in the development of productive forces.
  • Astra wild 7 August 2019 21: 15 New
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    I remember that from school
  • Astra wild 7 August 2019 17: 43 New
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    Probably that hung a little?
  • voyaka uh 7 August 2019 13: 32 New
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    "Who was to blame for this rotten environment? And what had to be done?" ////
    ----
    Oddly enough, Tsar Alexander the Third. So that he completely slowed down all the social and political reforms of his predecessor, Tsar Alexander II.
    If the workers had a shorter working day and a day off, the peasants would be allocated a significant part of the landlord’s land, and the monarchy would become constitutional, then all trumps would be knocked out of revolutionaries of all stripes.
    Alexander the Third slowed down, and Nicholas II inherited thousands of revolutionaries and the 1905 Revolution.
    1. free 7 August 2019 13: 42 New
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      Quote: voyaka uh
      "Who was to blame for this rotten environment? And what had to be done?" ////
      ----
      Oddly enough, Tsar Alexander the Third. So that he completely slowed down all the social and political reforms of his predecessor, Tsar Alexander II.
      If the workers had a shorter working day and a day off, the peasants would be allocated a significant part of the landlord’s land, and the monarchy would become constitutional, then all trumps would be knocked out of revolutionaries of all stripes.
      Alexander the Third slowed down, and Nicholas II inherited thousands of revolutionaries and the 1905 Revolution.


      But this is called social reform. And capital cannot go by definition.
      1. Cat man null 7 August 2019 14: 00 New
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        Quote: free
        this is called social reform. And capital cannot go for it by definition

        You should google "Swedish socialism" ... then think a lot. Only then - write something yes
        1. free 7 August 2019 14: 11 New
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          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Quote: free
          this is called social reform. And capital cannot go for it by definition

          You should google "Swedish socialism" ... then think a lot. Only then - write something yes


          Socialism is socialism. Attaching socialism to national lines is opportunism in its purest form.
        2. voyaka uh 7 August 2019 14: 51 New
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          The Scandinavian model is a successful example of practical socialism according to the model of Kautsky and Bernstein. Also: neither revolution nor terror was needed.
        3. free 7 August 2019 15: 03 New
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          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Scandinavian model is a successful example of practical socialism according to the model of Kautsky and Bernstein. Also: neither revolution nor terror was needed.


          In whose hands are the production facilities in these countries located?
          So what kind of socialism are we talking about? What you indicated is not socialism.
          Kautsky and Bernstein are social fascists.
        4. voyaka uh 7 August 2019 15: 09 New
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          You, in your terminology, seem to be a Marxist-Leninist? belay
          That was once inspired by the familiar Brezhnev mothballs ... smile
        5. free 7 August 2019 15: 14 New
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          Quote: voyaka uh
          You, in your terminology, seem to be a Marxist-Leninist? belay
          That was once inspired by the familiar Brezhnev mothballs ... smile


          You, in your terminology, seem to be a Marxist-Leninist?
          Yes. It's the same as the communist.
          That once breathed once familiar Brezhnev mothballs
          Brezhnev was not a Marxist-Leninist, a communist.
  • voyaka uh 7 August 2019 14: 48 New
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    Throughout Europe after a series of revolutions of 1848, similar reforms were carried out. And feudalism (like landowners) was over.
    It would only be necessary to repeat and the October Revolution would become unnecessary.
    Why is there still a thriving and respected monarchy in Britain? Because the ruling classes of this country carried out social reforms on time, without bringing the internal situation to terror and revolutions.
    1. Kronos 7 August 2019 15: 31 New
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      Only they themselves had several Revolutions and the constant uprisings of the oppressed peoples of Britain apparently did not value the people of reform then
    2. voyaka uh 7 August 2019 15: 36 New
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      The latter - in the 17th century, the Middle Ages.
      And the colonies are a separate song. But if you noticed, Britain abandoned all colonies at the same time without war (not like the French in Algeria).
      This prevented social upheaval and also testifies to the flexibility of the ruling elites.
    3. Kronos 7 August 2019 15: 53 New
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      Which colony during World War I was an uprising of the Irish for example. And all the reforms are not the merit of power but the struggle of the working class for their rights
    4. voyaka uh 7 August 2019 16: 14 New
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      The working class is fighting. But if the authorities are stupid and stubbornly hold on to the past, then there are revolutions, as in Russia or France.
      And if the authorities gradually give way, then the social system and changes smoothly, without shooting and political prisons, as in England.
    5. Kronos 7 August 2019 16: 17 New
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      And again, there were firing and prisons with stiff suppression of unrest.
    6. Kronos 7 August 2019 16: 28 New
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      I can remember about Margaret Thatcher’s anti-social policy, which deprived people of her work, they hated her so much that half of England celebrated her death
    7. voyaka uh 7 August 2019 16: 35 New
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      Coal mines closed throughout Europe. It became absurd to burn coal with houses in the second half of the 20th century. Of course, the miners protested, but the grooms protested when the cars appeared.
      But in England, the smog disappeared (a mixture of fog and coal dust) and the number of deaths from various pulmonary diseases sharply decreased.
  • free 7 August 2019 19: 03 New
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    Quote: voyaka uh
    The working class is fighting. But if the authorities are stupid and stubbornly hold on to the past, then there are revolutions, as in Russia or France.
    And if the authorities gradually give way, then the social system and changes smoothly, without shooting and political prisons, as in England.

    Then, in the end, the authorities must cede the representatives of the proletariat to political power.
  • Astra wild 7 August 2019 21: 19 New
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    If in England it’s so good, why don’t you move to permanent residence?
  • vladcub 7 August 2019 12: 07 New
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    "a great thinker (what to take from him)" if a thinker then it means you can forgive everything, but you can’t forgive young idiots?
    1. bober1982 7 August 2019 12: 29 New
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      Quote: vladcub
      and young idiots can’t?

      And what to take from them? they had no mind, unlike Lenin.
      1. vladcub 7 August 2019 16: 37 New
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        Here you are right: young fools have read fashionable literature + provocateurs of all stripes.
        Now the situation is similar, but V. In it’s not Nikolai Aleksandrovich and the current "Gaponov" appetite for more, but the goal of the "customers" offer
  • Revival 7 August 2019 12: 07 New
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    Lenin stated / predicted that the tsarist system would be defeated in the war with Japan due to inefficiency / backwardness.
    It’s not at all the same with the “wanted / called for defeat”
  • free 7 August 2019 10: 20 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: free
    when and where did Lenin call for the defeat of Russia.

    If you don’t take offense, then I will answer.
    Such famous slogans and theses by Lenin were during the great war, see article, "On the defeat of his government during the imperialist war"
    In order not to bore Leninist statements - it is easier to re-read Lenin in the MSS.


    where he proved the necessity of defeating Russia
    This is a manipulation, a lie of the author.

    As you rightly noted, Lenin called for the defeat of the government, not of Russia as a whole. It is not worth putting an equal sign between Russia and the government.

    "The revolution is designed to eliminate the conflict between productive forces and production relations (the main contradiction of capitalism, between the social form of production and private property appropriation),to break production relations, which became the shackles for the development of productive forces. This is the economic tasks of the revolution.
    But the existing system of production relations (private ownership of production systems) guarded by the political power of the ruling class (bourgeoisie) - its state. Hence the task of gaining political power a class representing the future mode of production.A social revolution cannot but be simultaneously a political revolution. Moreover, politics as a concentrated expression of the economy cannot but have primacy over the economy. "
    The experience of the Paris Commune was a starting point for Marx and Engels to further clarify their views on the tasks of the proletariat in the revolution. The first conclusion they draw is that the Commune proved that the working class cannot simply take hold of the state machine and use it for its own purposes. it is only important to emphasize that, Marx and Engels coming to the conclusion that the bourgeois state machine must be brokenfocus their energy on finding that form of political domination of the proletariat in which economic liberation of labor can occur.
    VI Lenin
    Historical materialism of 1932 (M. Mitin and I. Razumovsky).

    Thus, Lenin never called for the defeat of Russia as a country. He called for the defeat of the tsarist government, as the basis for the exploitation of the working majority, by a minority of owners of the production system.
    1. bober1982 7 August 2019 10: 26 New
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      The main Leninist idea is the development of an imperialist war into a civil war, that is, the demolition of all state principles, which actually happened.
      1. free 7 August 2019 10: 31 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        The main Leninist idea is the development of an imperialist war into a civil war, that is, the demolition of all state principles, which actually happened.


        No, translate the imperialist war into a class war. To say social.

        A social revolution cannot but be simultaneously a political revolution.
        The working class cannot simply take possession of the state machine and use it for its own purposes, it must break the state machine of the bourgeoisie and build the state machine of the dictatorship of the proletariat.
        V.I. Lenin. Historical materialism.
        1. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 11: 19 New
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          Quote: free
          Convert imperialist war to class war

          excuse me, but the Japanese at this time will be crunching popcorn to watch how the Leninists defeat in the class war?
          Quote: free
          Thus, Lenin never called for the defeat of Russia as a country. He called for the defeat of the tsarist government.

          yeah, that means the government will be in the bayonet, and the country will go to the Leninists, and with whom did the Japanese fight? The Russo-Japanese War was a war for territory and influence on the Far East, while the Japs didn’t give a damn who sits in St. Petersburg, the tsar, the Bolsheviks or the constituent assembly, the further course of history confirmed this, the claims of these macaques to our territories have not gone away.
          1. free 7 August 2019 12: 12 New
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            Quote: Pedrodepackes
            Quote: free
            Convert imperialist war to class war

            excuse me, but the Japanese at this time will be crunching popcorn to watch how the Leninists defeat in the class war?
            Quote: free
            Thus, Lenin never called for the defeat of Russia as a country. He called for the defeat of the tsarist government.

            yeah, that means the government will be in the bayonet, and the country will go to the Leninists, and with whom did the Japanese fight? The Russo-Japanese War was a war for territory and influence on the Far East, while the Japs didn’t give a damn who sits in St. Petersburg, the tsar, the Bolsheviks or the constituent assembly, the further course of history confirmed this, the claims of these macaques to our territories have not gone away.


            yeah, that means the government is in the bayonet
            What is one war when the government was killed in a bayonet, replacing the hands of ordinary people with their own hands?

            while the Japs didn’t give a damn who was sitting in St. Petersburg, the tsar, the Bolsheviks or the constituent assembly, the further course of history confirmed this, the claims of these macaques to our territories did not disappear
            Does anyone argue with this?

            and the Japanese at this time will be crunching popcorn to watch how the Leninists defeat in the class war?
            Of course they won’t. But after all, Lenin didn’t offer to do the revolution swiftly, a number of conditions had to be fulfilled before the revolution. This is on the one hand.
            On the other hand, Tsarist Russia has a high percentage of foreign capital in the economy.
            First - the word to the Soviet researcher I. Maevsky.
            “... It should be noted that the role of foreign capital in industry was determined not only by absolute values. This role was determined primarily by the fact that in the hands of foreign capital, mainly of English, French and Belgian origin, were such key industries as metallurgy and fuel. Franco - Belgian industrial and banking monopolies owned 93% of the total amount of foreign capital invested in southern metallurgy, and 89,2% of foreign capital invested in the coal industry of Donbass. The share of joint-stock companies with capital of foreign origin accounted for more than 70% of all coal production in the Donbass. To a foreign mainly English, non-ferrous metallurgy in Russia was subordinated to capital. In the hands of the British were concentrated up to 56% of all copper mined in Russia and more than 70% of gold and platinum mining. German capital represented by the Universal Electric Company - AEG, behind which stood the German bank Discount Discount Gesellschaft, owned about 90% of the electrical enterprises operating in Russia, and three-quarters of the capital of the joint-stock company Siemens and Schukkert. The Russian chemical industry was also funded and controlled by German capitalists. German capital was financially and technically controlled by a significant part of the Russian military industry enterprises, in particular the Nevsky Shipbuilding and Mechanical Plant, the Kreifton plant (Okhta Admiralty), the Lange plant (in Riga), and the Becker plant.
            The German capital also ended up with the Phoenix plant, the Noblessner company, Lesner’s subsidiary Russian Whitehead, the Hartmann metalworking and machine-building plants, the Kolomna machine-building plant, the Triangle joint stock company, the Shlisselburg powder factory, the Russian society of artillery factories " and etc. In the hands of French capital were the Society of Russian-Baltic Shipbuilding Plants with a capital of 15 million rubles, the Russian Society for the production of artillery shells and military supplies ... "

            And here is the data from the work of A.N. Zak "Germans and German Capital in Russian Industry" (St. Petersburg, 1914).
            The amount of share capital in Russia: 1912: Russian - 371,2 million rubles, foreign - 401,3 million rubles. / 225 /, that is, more than half is accounted for by foreign capital.


            That is, the tsarist government prosralized Russia without a war, isn’t it better, right? And this despite the fact that people were powerless and poor, while the mediocrity of the tsarist government went hungry for the sale of their homeland, for the surrender of national interests.
            1. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 12: 24 New
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              Quote: free
              That is, the tsarist government prosrali Russia without war

              nobody swept Russia, the yaps were shocked by such a peace treaty of the "victorious" country, the decision to end the war was made as a result of the current revolutionary situation in Russia, and the Bolsheviks of Leninists had a hand in creating this situation. Japan "won" with all its might, remember who was the first to ask for peace, Russia only gathered forces. So the blame for the fact that Russia agreed to conclude a shameful world lies entirely with revolutionaries of all stripes, including and Leninists.
              Quote: free
              Name at least one war when the government died

              nonsense, and what you proposed in the words about the defeat of the government in the war, the country loses with the government, but the Bolsheviks do not care if they get the power and the Brest Peace once again confirms this.
              1. free 7 August 2019 12: 32 New
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                Quote: Pedrodepackes
                the country loses with the government


                the country loses with the government
                Vladimir Vladimirovich rule forever? Did I understand you correctly?

                Well, when the economy doesn’t belong to you at least half, this is of course a breakthrough, no doubt. Can you by the way draw direct analogies with the current time, the participation of foreign capital in the Russian economy from 3% light industry. up to 82% in heavy. Is that great right?

                So the blame for the fact that Russia agreed to conclude a shameful world lies entirely with revolutionaries of all stripes, including and Leninists.
                Well, "Tsar Father" has nothing to do with the course.
                1. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 12: 44 New
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                  Quote: free
                  Vladimir Vladimirovich rule forever? Did I understand you correctly?

                  fool
                  Quote: free
                  You can by the way draw direct analogies with the current time.

                  China to help you, until the 90s, 100% of the Chinese economy, moreover, the communist and poverty of the state, now, after the arrival of foreign capital in the market - the second economy in the world, they argue with the United States on equal terms. The question is not whose capital is in the economy, but how to dispose of it, panimaesh globalization.
                  1. free 7 August 2019 13: 05 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    Vladimir Vladimirovich rule forever? Did I understand you correctly?

                    fool
                    Quote: free
                    You can by the way draw direct analogies with the current time.

                    China to help you, until the 90s, 100% of the Chinese economy, moreover, the communist and poverty of the state, now, after the arrival of foreign capital in the market - the second economy in the world, they argue with the United States on equal terms. The question is not whose capital is in the economy, but how to dispose of it, panimaesh globalization.


                    If my capital means and my profit, do you panim?

                    The influx of foreign investment in the economy is tightly regulated by the party-state leadership of the PRC.
                    First, foreign capital is allowed in such doses that the controlling interest in companies with foreign participation remains with the Chinese state or Chinese capital.(the Chinese are building enterprises here and they are working there themselves) Speculative foreign capital is limited or even prohibited (introduced norms on the duration of stay of foreign capital in China, restrictions and prohibitions on the immediate repatriation of profits from the country).(we do not have)
                    Second, the priorities for foreign capital are set by industry. (we do not have) Say, restrictions on foreign capital in the financial sector were very severe. Among the main priorities is always the export sector of the economy, the presence of foreigners in it helps the Chinese to develop foreign commodity markets.

                    Do they invest in production in them, but do you get money in our raw materials sector?
                  2. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 13: 11 New
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                    Quote: free
                    If my capital means and my profit, do you panim?

                    I don’t understand, land, people, raw materials — not all your profit, give a tax, give a technology, give localization of production, but don’t like it — go ahead, and nationalize your property. This is how normal hosts talk with guests.
                    Quote: free
                    Do they invest in production in them, but do you get money in our raw materials sector?

                    you have - yes, and with the Republic of Ingushetia it was just not only in raw materials, but more in industry, for example, the steam engine was almost entirely not Russian, but nevertheless, the Russian steam engine school existed.
                  3. free 7 August 2019 13: 14 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    If my capital means and my profit, do you panim?

                    I don’t understand, land, people, raw materials — not all your profit, give a tax, give a technology, give localization of production, but don’t like it — go ahead, and nationalize your property. This is how normal hosts talk with guests.
                    Quote: free
                    Do they invest in production in them, but do you get money in our raw materials sector?

                    you have - yes, and with the Republic of Ingushetia it was just not only in raw materials, but more in industry, for example, the steam engine was almost entirely not Russian, but nevertheless, the Russian steam engine school existed.


                    I don’t understand, land, people, raw materials — not all your profit, give a tax, give a technology, give localization of production, but don’t like it — go ahead, and nationalize your property. This is how normal hosts talk with guests.
                    And now it’s like in the Russian Federation. So how did you write or in another way?
                    The profit is not all investors but a very significant part, otherwise they would not invest. Investors are looking for profits and no more.

                    with you - yes, and with RI it’s just not only in raw materials
                    So we are talking about modern Russia now, after your example about China.
                  4. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 13: 16 New
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                    Quote: free
                    we are talking about modern Russia now

                    you can and say, but I’m more and more about the times of Leninists - revolutionaries
                  5. free 7 August 2019 13: 19 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    we are talking about modern Russia now

                    you can and say, but I’m more and more about the times of Leninists - revolutionaries


                    You yourself gave an example present China as a successful example of foreign investment. Because now the conversation is already about the present time.
                    Investments are different.

                    lies entirely with revolutionaries of all stripes, including and Leninists.
                    At first you seemed to blame all the suits of the revolutionaries, but now why only concentrated on Leninists?
                  6. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 13: 26 New
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                    Quote: free
                    an example of present-day China as a successful example of foreign investment

                    says that it was not so deplorable in the Republic of Ingushetia, as the Bolsheviks sang about it and did not have to fight with such a state at all.
                    Quote: free
                    At first you kind of blamed all the suits of the revolutionaries, but now why only concentrated on Leninists

                    so the Bolshevik-Leninists killed all stripes in due time. They alone remained.
                  7. free 7 August 2019 13: 40 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    an example of present-day China as a successful example of foreign investment

                    says that it was not so deplorable in the Republic of Ingushetia, as the Bolsheviks sang about it and did not have to fight with such a state at all.
                    Quote: free
                    At first you kind of blamed all the suits of the revolutionaries, but now why only concentrated on Leninists

                    so the Bolshevik-Leninists killed all stripes in due time. They alone remained.


                    Investments must be properly managed, that’s the main thing.China was able to build capitalism on investments, it raised its local oligarchy, which sees in China the key to its prosperity and continued existence. Therefore, it invests in China.
                    But “here is our elite”, which was treacherous, pro-Western under the Republic of Ingushetia, and remained the same in the current Russian Federation, as it was then being sold to the homeland and is selling it now. They really want to stand on a par with the oligarchy of the West, and therefore families and money, and real estate there.
                    Do you panim ???
                  8. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 13: 46 New
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                    Quote: free
                    And "here is our elite" as it was treacherous, pro-Western during the RI

                    is there any confirmation?
                    Quote: free
                    because families, and money, and real estate there.
                    Something I do not see suitable examples.
                    Quote: free
                    was treacherous, pro-Western under the Republic of Ingushetia, and remained the same in the current Russian Federation

                    somehow you famously jumped through the USSR
                    Quote: free
                    here is our elite

                    smoothly flowed from the regional committees and city committees to banks, the Duma and the government each in the past membership in the Communist Party, Komsomol, KGB or close relationship with members.
                  9. free 7 August 2019 13: 56 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    And "here is our elite" as it was treacherous, pro-Western during the RI

                    is there any confirmation?
                    Quote: free
                    because families, and money, and real estate there.
                    Something I do not see suitable examples.
                    Quote: free
                    was treacherous, pro-Western under the Republic of Ingushetia, and remained the same in the current Russian Federation

                    somehow you famously jumped through the USSR
                    Quote: free
                    here is our elite

                    smoothly flowed from the regional committees and city committees to banks, the Duma and the government each in the past membership in the Communist Party, Komsomol, KGB or close relationship with members.


                    is there any confirmation?
                    The Internet to help, or is there everyone lying?

                    Something I do not see suitable examples
                    See paragraph 1

                    somehow you famously jumped through the USSR
                    smoothly flowed from the regional committees and city committees to banks, the Duma and the government each in the past membership in the Communist Party, Komsomol, KGB or close relationship with members
                    .
                    Well, who argues, that was exactly how it was. But this only proves that these people were not communists, but were change-over careerists, this is one time. And two, this proves that the Leninists did not destroy all the other suits of the bourgeois revolutionaries.
                  10. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 14: 33 New
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                    Quote: free
                    is there any confirmation?

                    we will begin with the authors of perestroika and the economic course, and perhaps end with the president. Is this not enough for you to confirm?
                    Quote: free
                    these people were not communists

                    read their biography, all as one member of the CPSU and not ordinary members, there were no other parties under the USSR.
                  11. free 7 August 2019 14: 40 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    is there any confirmation?

                    we will begin with the authors of perestroika and the economic course, and perhaps end with the president. Is this not enough for you to confirm?
                    Quote: free
                    these people were not communists

                    read their biography, all as one member of the CPSU and not ordinary members, there were no other parties under the USSR.


                    I have already answered this question.
                    You’ve been caught and written on your back with a 5-letter word, the first r is the last о. According to your formal logic, you are exactly the same, because it is written on your back (membership in the CPSU). But this is not so true is it?
                    Are you this or not is determined by your actions, not words. (The criterion of truth is practice).
                    To seem (pretend) does not mean to be.
                    I hope you understand the difference.
                    PS By the way, I didn’t mean to offend you, just such a slightly rude example.

                    And you asked for confirmation, not I. Scroll through the comments above.
                  12. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 14: 44 New
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                    Quote: free
                    You were caught and written to you

                    the key phrase, but nobody caught them, they themselves achieved it, honest party members wrote characteristics and recommendations to them, or we have everything in the party
                    Quote: free
                    were changeling careerists
                  13. free 7 August 2019 14: 57 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    You were caught and written to you

                    the key phrase, but nobody caught them, they themselves achieved it, honest party members wrote characteristics and recommendations to them, or we have everything in the party
                    Quote: free
                    were changeling careerists


                    If your parents are from the 60s, you can find out a lot of interesting things about how you accepted them in the Communist Party in the early 80s. Then you accepted the collective farmers so many workers, so many workers, etc. And no one raised the question of whether these people are ideological or not? Do they speak Marxism-Leninism, can they think dialectically? Are they Communists. In fact, this process started earlier, but I can only say what I know from my father . That's about the CPSU turned into a puppet. The votes of honest party members simply diluted.
                    Now look at what years those who you write about entered the CPSU.
                  14. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 15: 03 New
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                    Quote: free
                    If your parents are so 60s

                    I myself am of these years, and, as far as I remember, the old party members, those who taught us life, they themselves were far from "postulates"
                    Quote: free
                    in fact, this process began earlier

                    it started even earlier than you think. All kinds of special rations and privileges for the old communists and functionaries have been in effect since 1918, and then more. Stalin's youngest son is Vasily, a typical representative of the "golden youth", so I don’t need to talk about the good and bad communists.
                  15. free 7 August 2019 15: 11 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    If your parents are so 60s

                    I myself am of these years, and, as far as I remember, the old party members, those who taught us life, they themselves were far from "postulates"
                    Quote: free
                    in fact, this process began earlier

                    it started even earlier than you think. All kinds of special rations and privileges for the old communists and functionaries have been in effect since 1918, and then more. Stalin's youngest son is Vasily, a typical representative of the "golden youth", so I don’t need to talk about the good and bad communists.


                    You wanted to refute me, but only confirmed. You confirmed that there were too few real Communists in the CPSU. Including those whom you wrote about. So what do you disagree with? The idea of ​​communism or its implementation?
                  16. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 15: 16 New
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                    Quote: free
                    So with what you do not agree. With the idea of ​​communism

                    and even with the idea of ​​communism and even more so, some kind of nonsense.
                    Quote: free
                    They confirmed that there were too few real Communists in the CPSU.

                    and thank God, otherwise they would have killed more people in the struggle for their power
                  17. free 7 August 2019 15: 24 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    So with what you do not agree. With the idea of ​​communism

                    and even with the idea of ​​communism and even more so, some kind of nonsense.
                    Quote: free
                    They confirmed that there were too few real Communists in the CPSU.

                    and thank God, otherwise they would have killed more people in the struggle for their power


                    What is bad about communism?
                  18. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 15: 26 New
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                    Quote: free
                    What is bad about communism?

                    Because this is utopia, let's leave this topic.
                  19. free 7 August 2019 15: 29 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    What is bad about communism?

                    Because this is utopia, let's leave this topic.


                    You see what the situation is. I’m also a little tired, here, besides you, my second interlocutors. But that’s indicative. As soon as I asked you what is bad about communism you chose to leave the conversation. Does this mean that you can’t imagine what communism is and criticize ? If not, explain the utopianism of communism?
                    You can later. hi
                  20. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 15: 31 New
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                    Quote: free
                    If not, explain the utopianism of communism?

                    answer, who will bear the shit for the hegemon under communism? When you find the answer to this question, then we will discuss.
                  21. free 7 August 2019 18: 56 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    If not, explain the utopianism of communism?

                    answer, who will bear the shit for the hegemon under communism? When you find the answer to this question, then we will discuss.


                    What kind of crap are you talking about? What exactly is the conversation about?
                  22. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 19: 15 New
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                    Quote: free
                    What shit

                    about human vital products, is it not clear? Shit, poop, stool, how to more clearly explain?
                    Quote: free
                    What exactly is the conversation about?

                    here specifically about them and talk, who will work in the sewers under the Communists?
                  23. free 7 August 2019 20: 35 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    What shit

                    about human vital products, is it not clear? Shit, poop, stool, how to more clearly explain?
                    Quote: free
                    What exactly is the conversation about?

                    here specifically about them and talk, who will work in the sewers under the Communists?


                    A strange question? The Communists themselves will be. Or are you a supporter of shameful professions?
                  24. Pedrodepackes 7 August 2019 20: 51 New
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                    Quote: free
                    The Communists themselves will be.

                    Oh well...
                  25. free 8 August 2019 01: 43 New
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                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Quote: free
                    The Communists themselves will be.

                    Oh well...


                    Now I suppose you are ready to explain why you consider communism a utopia?
  • Cat man null 7 August 2019 15: 07 New
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    Quote: free
    If your parents are so xnumx ...

    Young man, I myself - 60's laughing

    Quote: free
    I can only say what I know from my father

    Well then -

    Do not teach your father. And basta!

    Chatterbox request
  • Cat man null 7 August 2019 13: 49 New
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    Quote: free
    China was able to build capitalism on investments, it raised its local oligarchy, which sees China as the key to its prosperity and continued existence. Therefore, it invests in China

    Oh, what an advanced communist has gone now! Reasoning, just like a real-life opportunist from the time of Vladimir Ilyich laughing

    But what about the "ideals of communism", buddy? wink
  • free 7 August 2019 13: 58 New
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    Quote: Cat Man Null
    Quote: free
    China was able to build capitalism on investments, it raised its local oligarchy, which sees China as the key to its prosperity and continued existence. Therefore, it invests in China

    Oh, what an advanced communist has gone now! Reasoning, just like a real-life opportunist from the time of Vladimir Ilyich laughing

    But what about the "ideals of communism", buddy? wink


    Apparently when you don’t want to pay you are unable to restrain yourself and chat for free.
  • Cat man null 7 August 2019 14: 07 New
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    Quote: free
    when you don’t want to pay, you can’t hold back and chat for free

    I'm here - always free. At the same time, oddly enough, I manage to work. They pay me for the work, and not bad. But - closer to the body:

    Quote: free
    China was able to build capitalism on investment, its local oligarchy nurtured

    Quote: Cat Man Null
    But what about the "ideals of communism", mate

    Or finally received an explanation that "is no longer relevant"? wink
  • naidas 9 August 2019 13: 18 New
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    Quote: Cat Man Null
    Reasoning, just like a real-life opportunist from the time of Vladimir Ilyich

    1. Under Lenin: In the years 1921-22, 18 concessions were granted.
    2. Lenin: Concluding remarks on the report on concessions
    “The process of restoring the productive forces of Russia, and with it the entire world economy, can be accelerated many times by involving foreign state and municipal institutions, private enterprises, joint-stock companies, cooperatives and workers organizations of other states in the extraction and processing of Russia's natural wealth ".
    3. The Council of People's Commissars
    DECREE
    from 23 November 1920 of the year
    GENERAL ECONOMIC AND LEGAL CONDITIONS OF CONCESSIONS
  • Cat man null 9 August 2019 13: 23 New
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    Quote: naidas
    1, 2, 3

    What side are your 123 to

    Quote: free
    China was able to build capitalism on investment, its local oligarchy nurtured

    Right, no way. Pass by yes
  • Sugar Honeyovich 8 August 2019 17: 29 New
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    Quote: free
    He called for the defeat of the tsarist government, as the basis for the exploitation of the working majority, by a minority of owners of the production system.

    He called for the defeat of the governments of ALL warring countries: "The revolutionary class in a reactionary war cannot but wish to defeat their government."
    In general, the question was this: the revolutionaries should not allow the bourgeoisie to make money on people's blood, everything must be done so that the won’t start. If this is not possible, it is necessary to seek an end to the war, including (if they do not understand it kindly) by overthrowing such governments.
    At the same time, Lenin specified: “The transformation of an imperialist war into a civil one cannot be“ done ”, just as a revolution cannot be“ made ”- it grows out of a number of diverse phenomena, sides, features, properties, consequences of an imperialist war. And such growth is impossible without a number of the military setbacks and defeats of those governments that are being hit by their own oppressed classes. "
    In other words, the revolution is the result of defeats, failures in the war, and not the cause.
  • aakvit 7 August 2019 13: 26 New
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    But the article is about the RUSSIAN-JAPANESE WAR! And here is the Great War, after 10 years? stop
    1. Sugar Honeyovich 9 August 2019 04: 51 New
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      The article was published on July 26, 1915. And the question is about war in general - no matter what.
  • Aviator_ 7 August 2019 19: 25 New
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    “The defeat of his government” concerned not only the Russian Empire, but also Kaiser Germany, Austro-Hungarian, as well as France and Great Britain. There was a call of the III International to all citizens and citizens of these states.
  • Nasrat 7 August 2019 10: 34 New
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    a good article, which is rare in VO, the author's credit + ... I take it for myself.
  • Oleg133 7 August 2019 10: 40 New
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    Quote: andrewkor

    But the Bolsheviks are not in the limit, and all the dogs are hung on them by unfinished liberalists!

    Lenin always wanted Russia's defeat in all wars. These are today's liberals, such as ukrofil Navalny. By the way, they (the Bolsheviks) called themselves liberals for quite a while. Tsarism was a passive Russophobe, privileges to foreigners, taxes, and duties. Bolshevism is still an active Russophobe. The fight against "great-power chauvinism", now it is "Russian fascism" - this is what the USSR and the Russian Federation carry out clearly and immediately.
    1. free 7 August 2019 12: 16 New
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      Quote: Oleg133
      Quote: andrewkor

      But the Bolsheviks are not in the limit, and all the dogs are hung on them by unfinished liberalists!

      Lenin always wanted Russia's defeat in all wars. These are today's liberals, such as ukrofil Navalny. By the way, they (the Bolsheviks) called themselves liberals for quite a while. Tsarism was a passive Russophobe, privileges to foreigners, taxes, and duties. Bolshevism is still an active Russophobe. The fight against "great-power chauvinism", now it is "Russian fascism" - this is what the USSR and the Russian Federation carry out clearly and immediately.


      Lenin always wanted Russia's defeat in all wars
      You will probably easily provide evidence of your words, right?
    2. naidas 9 August 2019 13: 22 New
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      Quote: Oleg133
      Bolshevism is still an active Russophobe.

      The Bolsheviks could not otherwise, as they were imperials. And the building of the national Russian state is another decay. (take sovereignty as much as you can have passed).
  • Oleg133 7 August 2019 10: 46 New
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    Quote: free

    Thus, Lenin never called for the defeat of Russia as a country. He called for the defeat of the tsarist government.

    Ahaha
    So Bulk & Co calls for the defeat of Putin.
    Bulk from this for Russian chtol?)
    1. free 7 August 2019 12: 17 New
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      Quote: Oleg133
      Quote: free

      Thus, Lenin never called for the defeat of Russia as a country. He called for the defeat of the tsarist government.

      Ahaha
      So Bulk & Co calls for the defeat of Putin.
      Bulk from this for Russian chtol?)


      Logic is not your hobby, alas.
  • smaug78 7 August 2019 12: 09 New
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    The author, a shame not to know that Gapon was killed by the hands of the "masters of the West" ...
    1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 12: 41 New
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      Come on, the first article, where instead of the owners there is just an anonymous, collective West laughing Credit Samsonov, an interesting article
  • smaug78 7 August 2019 13: 08 New
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    Quote: Krasnodar
    Come on, the first article, where instead of the owners there is just an anonymous, collective West laughing Credit Samsonov, an interesting article

    However, he also had indirect contacts with the Japanese and British intelligence. - and what is this?))) even if it is a lie ...
    1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 14: 44 New
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      And without this, Samsonov would not be Samsonov laughing
      1. naidas 10 August 2019 08: 43 New
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        Quote: Krasnodar
        And without this, Samsonov would not be Samsonov

        It’s a disaster if people who don’t know history comment on the story. At least the author is a historical genius and that won’t help. Boris is not familiar with the stories and blurted out.
    2. naidas 9 August 2019 13: 33 New
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      You are sure, Boris is engaged in slander.
      The author hints: Gapon is a participant in the failed preparations for an armed uprising in St. Petersburg using weapons from the John Grafton steamer. The organization’s headquarters was located in London at the Maritime Hall seamen's union club on West India Dock Road.
      Money for the purchase of weapons was received from Japanese sources, through Colonel Motojiro Akashi. M. M. Litvinov estimated the money spent on the purchase of weapons at 100 rubles.
      1. smaug78 12 August 2019 15: 56 New
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        And where did Lenin want to mess up?
  • aakvit 7 August 2019 13: 15 New
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    Nothing changed! And again there is a new hapon - Bulk, again there are roaring liberals, etc. etc.!
  • vladcub 7 August 2019 13: 39 New
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    S. V. Zubatov “a man of rare intelligence and capacity for work” was still interested in forbidden literature in the gymnasium. He was expelled from the gymnasium at the request of his father, because of reading: “nihilistic literature (Pisarev, Marx, etc.) worked in the office. was a telegraph operator. He was familiar with the "populists", was recruited by the secret police in 1886, when the revolutionaries uncovered it, officially went to work for the police. In fact, he created a political investigation in Russia. Organizer: "Mutual aid societies of mechanical workers" is actually a prototype of trade unions. His goal was to distract the workers from the revolution. As a result, while the Zubatov trade union was operating, the activities of the Social Democrats were completely PARALIZED.
    Due to the conflict with the Minister of Internal Affairs, Pleve, he resigned. And under the supervision of the police. Here is the paradox: in fact, the "father" of the secret investigation and under the supervision of his "children."
  • svp67 7 August 2019 15: 24 New
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    Gapon believed that he would become the leader of the revolution.
    But the craving "for hype" and "sincere love for banknotes" ruined all his dreams
  • Astra wild 7 August 2019 18: 04 New
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    Quote: free
    Quote: voyaka uh
    You, in your terminology, seem to be a Marxist-Leninist? belay
    That was once inspired by the familiar Brezhnev mothballs ... smile


    You, in your terminology, seem to be a Marxist-Leninist?
    Yes. It's the same as the communist.
    That once breathed once familiar Brezhnev mothballs
    Brezhnev was not a Marxist-Leninist, a communist.

    I in childhood reproached L.I. as the CPSU LEADER, and
    1. Krasnodar 7 August 2019 22: 07 New
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      I still respect him - Humanity, Intellectual, etc.
  • kiril1246 8 August 2019 13: 52 New
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    When they write about the revolution of 1905, they gently bypass the topic that the speeches of the workers, but in fact the lumpen are the continuation of the Jewish pogroms of 1902-1904. It’s just that by 1905 the crowd had become so emboldened that they had already gone to smash their Russians, who were richer.
  • The king was kind, he wanted to go out to the people ... dissuaded! There is a Tsar Cannon, and he was a rag king! Why did the people lead to Zimny ​​when the king was in the village of Tsel? Because Gapon was a provocateur (no matter if it was dark), the Bolsheviks correctly assessed the role of Gapon and his entourage. The article is an attempt to slightly correct the image of the regime (an order of today) Wow: they wanted to give everything to the workers! Yeah.
  • NF68 8 August 2019 16: 38 New
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    Apparently Gapon could tell too much about his curators and create not small problems for his curators and those who stood behind the curators. Because Gapon and a little nailed. There is no person, no, and problems because of this person ..
  • Doliva63 8 August 2019 21: 51 New
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    Recalled the struggle of two traitors - El Qing and Gorbi. Those striving for power spare no one. But the Pandora’s box was opened by the KGB officer Andropov, who considered himself smarter than others. But a falling standard of living suggests otherwise.
  • Doliva63 9 August 2019 20: 05 New
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    Quote: Pedrodepackes
    Quote: Doliva63
    Everything was in order with the Bolsheviks with authority.
    but they themselves in history textbooks for Soviet schoolchildren about the 1905 revolution and their role in it wrote a completely different thing.
    Quote: Doliva63
    Or did they win the Civil Revolutionaries?
    and the civilian we had in 1905 ?? recourse
    Quote: Doliva63
    And so the Bolsheviks really were after 12 years.
    really, on the eve of World War I, Lenin was thinking of screwing it in Mexico, because counted. that the revolution in Russia is futile, and drank beer throughout the war in Zurich.
    Quote: Doliva63
    So do not spoil the story.

    the search for truth, no matter how unpleasant it is, does not mean shitting somewhere.

    Dear colleague on the site, to search for the truth in history is empty, it is as it is.
  • Aleks2000 30 October 2019 23: 49 New
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    IMHO, something lied here
    Because according to official history, he was killed after an overheard conversation as a secret police agent ...
    And not from floundering bay. The returning Gapon was nobody ...