Why the Americans did not dare to attack the USSR?

194
In discussing the issues of the strategy of nuclear weapons from time to time, the thesis that the United States did not dare to attack the USSR and unleash an unlimited nuclear war only because the USSR had its own nuclear weapons and could strike its blow, because nuclear weapons restrained the likely American aggression, skips. This thesis is often formulated as a kind of truth that does not require proof. Anyway, any work and publications where the topic of nuclear deterrence develops is simply not to be counted.

Why the Americans did not dare to attack the USSR?

American scheme to judge the planned scope of a nuclear war in Europe. This is an early version, when tactical nuclear weapons were still a bit




I believe that this thesis is not only erroneous, but also based on the "granite foundation" of a clearly insufficient knowledge of military stories after the end of the second world war. The advocates of this thesis on nuclear deterrence completely ignore the key circumstances that completely change the whole essence of the matter.

Nuclear strike - a type of artillery preparation


We need to start with the fact that the Soviet command, which at the beginning of the 1960s developed the theory of conducting war with the use of nuclear weapons, did not at all assign it to an absolutely decisive role and did not intend to revise the basic concepts of military affairs.

Nuclear weapons were supposed to be used in the framework of the actions of all the armed forces strictly coordinated with each other in the form of a strategic operation. Or more specifically:
"The strategic operation of a nuclear war included actions by the types of the Armed Forces conducted according to a single plan, plan and under one strategic leadership. The nuclear operations of the Strategic Missile Forces were the main content of the operation." (Military strategy, 1963, p. 95).


Moreover, since nuclear strikes could not achieve complete destruction of the enemy, it was supposed to finish it off:
"For the final defeat of the surviving enemy groups, it was planned to conduct offensive operations of the fronts, airborne operations, and in some areas - operations of the country's fleets and frontline formations of the country's air defense forces" (Military, strategy, 1963, p. 95).


The complete defeat of the enemy was to be achieved by tactical nuclear strikes, followed by the actions of fully mechanized and highly mobile combined arms or units. The likelihood of an adversary’s tactical nuclear strike made it necessary to abandon concentration of forces, to disperse along the front and in depth. The actions of the dispersed forces were determined by the application of tactical nuclear strikes, which suppressed and partially destroyed the enemy defenses, and the combined-arms formations had to immediately direct their strikes to areas already hit by a nuclear strike, quickly pass the nuclear explosion zone and rush further into the depth of enemy construction.

Describing nuclear strikes, the Soviet command emphasized the possibility of maneuvering fire, that is, rapid concentration of nuclear strikes on important targets, transfer and dispersal if necessary. The use of terminology that came from artillery, as well as the general nature of the use of nuclear weapons in war, clearly indicate that the Soviet command perceived nuclear missile weapons as a kind of artillery, only very powerful and especially long-range. All types of nuclear missiles made it possible to carry out a very fast (Marshal of the Soviet Union VD Sokolovsky wrote about 30 minutes of a nuclear strike) and large-scale artillery preparation of a strategic offensive, from the defeat of the advanced forces of the enemy to the destruction of military facilities in its rear. there is the entire strategic depth. Nuclear artillery preparation shocked and weakened the enemy, opening up the possibility for mechanized formations of a rapid leap, maneuver and the rapid achievement of the complete defeat of the enemy forces.

These views were formulated in the early 1960s, and were not abandoned until the early 1990s, when the idea of ​​"nuclear deterrence" appeared in the official military strategy. Soviet doctrine put a combination of nuclear artillery preparation with powerful tank offensive.

Offensive under the "nuclear fungus"


The proliferation of "nuclear deterrence" was greatly contributed by the fact that we still lack the post-war history of the Soviet army. What was the army, what was its structure, what were its strategic and operational plans, what were they preparing for and how were they going to crush the enemy. Military historians readily write the history of wars, and the Soviet army did not participate in a large-scale war after World War II, so there seems to be nothing to write about (all sorts of local conflicts and regional wars are, of course, investigated, although not all). Here from this inattention and erroneous conclusions follow.

The Soviet army had a tool that radically changed the strategic situation in its favor. It was the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany (GSVG). At the beginning of the 1980-s there were 429 thousands of personnel, 3600 guns and mortars 7900 tanks, 831 aircraft and 261 helicopters. GSVG was the largest group of troops, fully mechanized and motorized, equipped with the latest technology and weapons, maintaining constant combat readiness.

Just a few days ago, my book "The Group of Soviet Forces in Germany: 50 Years on the Verge of Nuclear War", which I prepared at the urgent request of the GSVG veterans, was published. In it, I set myself the task of finding out what role this group of troops played and why we should remember it. Even superficial research (due to the limited time available for work) showed its closest connection with plans for nuclear war and the conduct of strategic offensive operations. All what the Soviet marshals wrote about the strategy of nuclear war, first of all, it was the GSVG that had to perform.

She had to fight in conditions of abundant use of nuclear weapons, which in Europe was concentrated unimaginably many. NATO had about 6 thousands of operational-tactical nuclear warheads (along with nuclear projectiles) and 4,5 thousands of warheads on strategic carriers deployed in Europe and the adjacent seas. The Soviet nuclear arsenal in Europe is not exactly known, but there is evidence that there were 1,3 thousands of tactical missile nuclear warheads and about 2 thousands of other types of nuclear weapons (including nuclear projectiles). According to my estimations, both sides could have made about 4 thousands of nuclear explosions during the war on the territory of Germany (11% of the country’s territory would fall into the zone of severe destruction). More than half of the forces on both sides would probably be destroyed during the first wave of nuclear exchanges.

But then this factor came into play. The Soviet troops, as is known, were equipped with armored vehicles with anti-nuclear protection (tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled artillery systems), very resistant to a nuclear explosion. The tank can withstand an 30 CT blast at a distance of approximately 800 meters without loss of combat capability, the BMP is about 1500 meters. What was the need for anti-nuclear protection of armored vehicles? Not only and not so much in order to survive the enemy's nuclear strike, especially since the probability of hitting a tank battalion deployed in dispersed order is very small. Even a successful hit of a tactical charge against an upcoming tank battalion will result in the failure of about half of its tanks.


It is difficult to find a good photograph of a tank unit deployed for the offensive. This photo from the exercises in the DPR gives some idea of ​​what a tank attack is in dispersed orders.


The main thing was different: the anti-nuclear defense allowed the mechanized units and formations to advance behind the nuclear firing shaft. That is, a nuclear projectile or tactical missile strikes at the enemy, while the advanced tank units are located about a kilometer from the point of impact. After passing the shock wave, they tear forward, under the "nuclear fungus", where the enemy is destroyed, demoralized and shocked. The tanks pass through the zone of a nuclear explosion, behind them are infantry fighting vehicles and self-propelled guns, finishing off everything that caught my eye, and developing an offensive further, deep into enemy territory. All this is done very quickly, within literally 30-40 minutes or less.


Nuclear blitzkrieg - a sight not for the faint of heart


The most interesting thing is that this method of conducting the offensive was recognized even in the open press:
"Only tanks, following nuclear strikes, can rapidly attack the enemy, destroy its remaining forces and means, overcome radioactive contamination zones and the resulting debris and quickly reach the opposite side of the area of ​​nuclear explosions. ("Tanks and Tank Forces", 1980, p. 225)


Given the fact that self-propelled guns could shoot nuclear shells, this gave the tank formations tremendous power. Say, in the 10th Guards Tank Division there were 36 self-propelled guns 2S3 "Acacia". If in each of them there was one 3BV3 projectile with a capacity of 2,5 kt, then the division would have 36 shells with a total capacity of 90 kt. Hence the conclusion that even without the support of missile and aviation, in this spirit of the offensive under the "nuclear fungus", the 10th Guards Tank Division was quite able to break its way and reach the English Channel.

Why the Americans did not dare to fight?


That is why they did not decide that they did not have adequate means of counteracting the GSVG tank forces in conditions of an unimaginably cruel nuclear massacre. What did it lead to?

The American strategy of warfare also provided for support for the advance of ground troops with nuclear strikes, and for this purpose in Western Europe, the United States and NATO held their large force grouping. But it took a disadvantageous position, since the Atlantic Ocean was behind it, and the strategic depth of the theater was small, about 400-500 km, depending on the direction. Soviet tank break pressed them to the sea.

Delivery of reinforcements from the United States required time for sea transportation and the restoration of European ports after nuclear strikes to unload troops, equipment and cargo. The USSR had the advantage in transporting reinforcements, since it was easier and less time-consuming to restore temporary crossings instead of destroyed bridges, to restore the railways to a minimum. The Soviet army could quickly replenish battered parts and increase the force of strikes than NATO.

The American command carefully analyzed all this and came to the conclusion that in the event of war, Soviet troops could capture all of Western Europe, right up to Gibraltar. In this case, the nuclear war ended in a stalemate. The communists could not finally dump the capitalists because they could not transfer their troops across the Atlantic, but the capitalists were also deprived of the opportunity to finish off and dump the communists weakened by a massive nuclear strike, because their European group was defeated and NATO was deprived of the most important strategic bridgehead on the continent.

That's all. Starting a global nuclear war, which in the prevailing conditions almost inevitably ended in a stalemate, was obviously meaningless for the American command and political leadership. Huge sacrifices, destruction and damage ... so what? Because the option of war was rejected, the Americans began to look for a solution to the problem in the sphere of psychological war and found it.

Hence the conclusion: the thesis of “nuclear deterrence” and its miraculous nature is based essentially on a strong underestimation, even ignoring the real military history of the Cold War, that is, this thesis is incorrect from the actual point of view.
194 comments
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  1. +14
    11 June 2019 05: 36
    GSVG was the main deterrent + Warsaw Pact.
    Therefore, NATO sat quietly.
    1. +5
      11 June 2019 10: 08
      I agree. In the Central European theater of operations, the situation was in fact a stalemate. The forces of NATO in West Germany were quantitatively and qualitatively equal to the GSVG + NNA GDR. However, if you read the American documents of those years, then they did not even think about the start of hostilities. On the contrary, they themselves were mortally afraid of the Soviet offensive.
  2. +17
    11 June 2019 05: 36
    Mdaaa hard to think in terms of suicide war what to fight in conditions of continuous radiation and destroyed communications ... this is something. what
    For me, now we need to focus on causing maximum damage in the United States ... the main source of danger to peace on our planet.
    1. +10
      11 June 2019 07: 40
      So the supreme said that the strikes will be not only directly on the aggressor, but also on the places of decision-making.
      1. 0
        13 June 2019 02: 01
        "at the places of decision making" is somehow smoothed out, the maneuver leaves, and the hope that it is about someone, no one knows ..
        1. +1
          13 June 2019 08: 32
          And you, along the way, need to publish specific coordinates in the press? Type tremble, over there with a loop, put air defense and missile defense.
    2. 0
      11 June 2019 12: 02
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      to fight in conditions of continuous radiation and destroyed communications ..

      And then what to do with these territories?
      1. +5
        11 June 2019 16: 45
        Quote: Lipchanin
        And then what to do with these territories?

        wait a year ... see Hiroshima ...
        1. +1
          11 June 2019 17: 44
          Quote: ser56
          wait a year ... see Hiroshima ...

          and in Pripyat it’s still dangerous to live
          1. +9
            11 June 2019 18: 31
            There was no nuclear explosion in Pripyat, but a thermal explosion of the first circuit, which scattered highly active pieces of nuclear fuel and graphite rods!
            You can live in a nuclear explosion zone through the weather (true with some limitations) hi
            1. 0
              18 June 2019 11: 16
              Excuse me, but do we automatically write off the people who participated in the attack as a junk?
        2. +3
          11 June 2019 17: 50
          Quote: ser56
          Quote: Lipchanin
          And then what to do with these territories?

          wait a year ... see Hiroshima ...

          Refurbished, including with Amer’s money)))
          1. +4
            11 June 2019 18: 32
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Refurbished, including with Amer’s money)))

            Americans and treated the Japanese there, at the same time received data on the effects of radiation on people ... reasonably ... request
            1. +1
              12 June 2019 10: 40
              Mattresses thought that the Soviets after Hiroshima collapse ..... of course they never understand us!
          2. +2
            12 June 2019 12: 26
            Refurbished, including with Amer’s money)))

            said just like benefactors
            1. 0
              12 June 2019 22: 41
              For post-war japs, Americans were benefactors.
      2. +1
        13 June 2019 09: 36
        Quote: Lipchanin
        And then what to do with these territories?

        Control and control, preventing the enemy from re-using them as a bridgehead for aggression.
        The main deterrent to the outbreak of war for the United States in the first post-war decade was the possibility of the USSR in a matter of days or hours to smash the British Isles and take them out of the war. The USA could not decide on such a sacrifice - the secondary nature of their elites (financial, and political) from the City of London also played a role.
        1. -1
          13 June 2019 15: 06
          Quote: bayard
          Control and control, preventing the enemy from re-using them as a bridgehead for aggression.

          For Americans, this is not a solution.
          Quote: bayard
          the first post-war decade was the possibility of the USSR in a matter of days or hours to smash the British Isles into trash and take them out of the war

          In the first post-war decade, the USSR could do practically nothing. He couldn’t even get to the Rhine, what kind of city is it. Another thing is that Truman had his own war with the Pentagon, and not with the USSR. Eisenhower continued the war of the American administration with the Pentagon with its phenomenal ability not to learn from its mistakes.
          The United States received some degree of meaningfulness only under Kennedy.
          1. +1
            13 June 2019 18: 32
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Quote: bayard
            Control and control, preventing the enemy from re-using them as a bridgehead for aggression.

            For Americans, this is not a solution.

            The question was what the USSR would do with Europe after the nuclear war, having conquered it.
            And about England after 1945 ... Do not forget that our troops were in Germany, and naval and air bases were on the Swedish islands near the Danish Straits. From those airfields, USSR aviation covered the whole of England like a bull’s sheep, and even before the USSR had nuclear weapons (1949), it could mix the whole of Foggy Albion with soil. And with the advent of nuclear weapons, this probability has become simply absolute.
            So, when Khrushchev asked the chief of the General Staff how many nuclear warheads he needed to take England out of a state of war, he answered without hesitation "Five warheads of 3-5 Mt." , and Khrushchev's surprised exclamation showed where these warheads should lie.
            And in England they knew about it.
            But the United States was not ready to sacrifice its former metropolis.
            1. +3
              13 June 2019 20: 48
              Quote: bayard
              The question was what the USSR would do with Europe after the nuclear war, having conquered it.

              You see, you are greatly misinterpreting timing.
              Quote: bayard
              in the first post-war decade

              This is 45-55 years.
              Quote: bayard
              Five warheads of 3-5 mt each.

              This is the 60s. The first OTDB and BRDS in the USSR appeared only in the 55th year.
              In Britain, nuclear weapons appeared in the 52nd, and the BRSD - in the 60th.
              Quote: bayard
              From those airfields, Soviet aviation covered all of England like a sheep

              The USSR there was no aviation before mass retraining on the MiG-15. For some reason, few people know about this. No cars capable of intercepting Canberra, no cars capable of doing something with a shootingstar.
              Quote: bayard
              covered all England like a sheep, and even before the Soviet Union had nuclear weapons (1949), it could mix the entire Misty Albion with soil

              In reality 12 or The 21st group of Allied forces was stronger in terms of aviation on all Soviet fronts combined.
              Quote: bayard
              But the US was not ready to donate

              The United States was not up to Comrade Stalin. Truman could not afford to admit that he surrendered Europe to the enemy in the 45th, as a result, he lied to the very end that Comrade Stalin was a great (but secret) friend of the United States. Even after the 48th, he continued to do so.

              And donate to the account - there, in fact, in Comrade England Attlee is building socialism slowly. So from the point of view of Comrade Stalin, not so bad.
              1. +1
                13 June 2019 21: 20
                Of course, all of the above, too. But the MiG-15 in 1950 had already entered the troops and "Shooting Star" was not afraid of him. A powerful strike force in Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland made the success of any offensive attempt doubtful. And in the early years the United States did not have as many atomic bombs as they would have liked.
                As well as a powerful communist movement in countries such as France and Italy, where communist leaders warned that they would start a guerrilla war in the event of a war against the USSR.
                1. -2
                  13 June 2019 21: 46
                  Quote: bayard
                  But the MiG-15 in 1950 already entered the army and "Shooting Star" was not afraid of him

                  Let me remind you that Saber appeared simultaneously with him. I also remind you that the Allies have been actively flying whistles since the 44th year and already massively learned well. The USSR Air Force is not one Kozhedub regiment.
                  Quote: bayard
                  A powerful strike force in Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland made doubtful the success of any attempted offensive

                  Let me remind you that in the late 40s, Americans were carried away by internal disassembly, but in the early 50s they turned on their typewriter again. Production of the M47 / 48 was higher than the T-54/55 throughout the 50s.
                  Quote: bayard
                  And the United States did not have as many atomic bombs in the first years as they would like.

                  But much more than none. And in the 52nd already in the British wound up in his pants.
                  Quote: bayard
                  As well as a powerful communist movement in countries such as France and Italy

                  Here you are partly right. These beauties were not immediately outweighed, oh, not immediately. They also forgot a similar movement in Britain, where it was represented by the parliamentary majority and Prime Minister Attlee (greetings from the MiG-15) and in the United States itself. (hello from the atomic bomb). It was just the main problem. Allies in the WWII blundered very much, which allowed this to happen, nothing can be done.
                  1. +2
                    13 June 2019 23: 31
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Let me remind you that Saber appeared simultaneously with him. I also recall that the Allies have been actively flying whistles since the 44th year and have already massively learned quite well. The USSR Air Force is not one Kozhedub regiment.

                    At the beginning of 1950, the Saber was still a prototype and the beginning of the Korean War accelerated its adoption. And Kozhedub commanded not a regiment, but, as far as I remember, a consolidated corps of two divisions.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Let me remind you that in the late 40s, Americans were carried away by internal disassembly, but in the early 50s they turned on their typewriter again. Production of the M47 / 48 was higher than the T-54/55 throughout the 50s.

                    The USSR in Europe had a lot of T-34-85, T-44, IS-2, IS-3, SU-100 and ISU-152 ... well, and T-54 \ 55. And also the combat experience and the enthusiasm of the winners.
                    But there was also the problem of public opinion - the USSR in the eyes of the population of the allies was a hero, friend and main winner of Germany. Therefore, to declare in half a year - a year later that “we started a war against the USSR” was fraught with great disorder, protests and sabotage. It took time to dehumanize. And the time (and reason) for discrediting the communists and simply left-wing forces within their society. Which is what they did.
                    The USSR had no plans to seize Europe; moreover, the USSR proposed withdrawing troops from Germany and holding free elections there. Against were the United States and England. So there was Germany, and then the GDR.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Quote: bayard
                    And the United States did not have as many atomic bombs in the first years as they would like.

                    But much more than none. And in the 52nd already in the British wound up in his pants.

                    In 1949, an atomic bomb appeared in the Union, and England was the most priority target for such products (as more accessible). Moreover, in 1950 \ 51 such a wonderful carrier as the Tu-16 (and this is much cooler than the Camberra) and the Il-28 appeared. And the Tu-4 was also produced at an accelerated pace. Fighter cover would be from the above airfields.

                    And the author of the article is right in the main - the situation in Europe was stalemate for the Anglo-Saxons - in the event of war, Europe was lost by them, and England was carried.
                    Of course, something started up in England in the 52nd, but in the USSR in the 53rd thermonuclear ammunition was started and their power began to balance the numerical superiority.

                    Thank God pragmatism won and Europe was not turned into nuclear ashes ... even though it did not deserve such happiness (salvation). Like our partners in the Yalta deal.
                    1. -2
                      14 June 2019 08: 06
                      Quote: bayard
                      "Saber" at the beginning of 1950 was still a prototype and the beginning of the war in Korea accelerated its adoption.

                      He began to enter combat units in February 49th.
                      Quote: bayard
                      And Kozhedub did not command a regiment, but as far as I remember, a combined corps of two divisions.

                      324th Iad from the 51st. The colonel did not command the 64th Corps, these were Major General Belov and Lobov.
                      Quote: bayard
                      The USSR in Europe had a lot of T-34-85, T-44, IS-2, IS-3, SU-100 and ISU-152

                      This junk was of no particular interest. On the other hand, the US Army at that time waged war on five fronts - with Congress, Truman, aviation, the navy and its own headquarters - so it was in a very sad state. So the question is, from what point do you alternate.
                      Quote: bayard
                      And also the combat experience and the enthusiasm of the winners.

                      And it was, for the happiness of the remaining Soviet people, the understanding of Comrade. Stalin by the 45th year that this he can’t lose his army anymore. Because this is the last army, no more.
                      Quote: bayard
                      But there was also the problem of public opinion

                      You are right, already wrote about this. Mr. Roosevelt was much to the left of Comrade. Stalin, this has long been felt. Even Churchill allowed fraternization with the enemy, which happened sideways, and not only of England. MiG-15 again.
                      Quote: bayard
                      The USSR proposed withdrawing troops from Germany and holding free elections there

                      How the USSR withdraws troops and holds free elections is well known by then.
                      Quote: bayard
                      Moreover, in 1950 \ 51 such a wonderful carrier appeared as the Tu-16 (and this is much cooler than the Camberra) and the Il-28

                      You are cheating again. In the 50th appeared IL-28, Tu-16 - 54th.
                      Quote: bayard
                      Tu-4 was also produced at an accelerated pace. Fighter cover would be from the aforementioned airfields.

                      Tu-4 for radar air defense and missile interceptors - a sedentary duck (which showed just Korea), and the USSR could not provide any fighter cover.
                      Quote: bayard
                      And the author of the article is right in the main - the situation in Europe was stalemate for the Anglo-Saxons - in the event of war Europe lost them

                      Until the late 60s, NATO’s military superiority in Europe was balanced by cowardice and squabble between NATO members and within the American leadership. As a result, in the 60s and later, it turned out to be impossible to develop a single line of behavior in relation to the USSR. One of the most shameful deals - gas pipes, Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod - was launched under one of the strongest American presidents and one of the best German chancellors. Nevertheless, partners once again surrendered unhealthy.
                      Quote: bayard
                      she did not deserve such happiness (salvation). Like our partners in the Yalta deal.

                      The breadth of the soul of a Russian man has always surprised me. They don’t think about themselves at all, all about foreigners.
                      1. +1
                        14 June 2019 20: 45
                        For the sworn partner of the last "Iskander" is not a pity.
  3. +14
    11 June 2019 05: 39
    Why the Americans did not dare to attack the USSR?

    Yes, only because these vile jackals were afraid of a possible answer, assuming that there was nuclear weapons in the USSR as well. All post-war history shows that the United States is only at war with an adversary who does not have nuclear weapons.
    In addition, they did not rule out a large-scale military operation of the USSR Armed Forces, which were highly alert in the event of such a nuclear attack.
    Common jackals.
  4. +8
    11 June 2019 07: 06
    Huge sacrifices, destruction and damage ... so what? Because the war option was rejected, the Americans began to look for a solution to the problem in the field of psychological warfare and found it.
    After the "Cuban Missile Crisis", the Americans realized that they did not have an ocean barrier.
    1. +8
      11 June 2019 09: 57
      The oceanic barrier exists today, and only ballistic missiles can overcome it with impunity. That is why the Americans did not “democratize” you.
  5. +2
    11 June 2019 07: 26
    There was practically no army (like the Nazis) that could fight on equal terms with the USSR Armed Forces.
    1. +6
      11 June 2019 09: 38
      Quote: knn54
      There was practically no army (like the Nazis) that could fight on equal terms with the USSR Armed Forces.

      According to the stories of Didov.

      In reality, the West had problems with ground weapons from the late 60s to the early 80s. The fap in TNW also belongs to the same period. On both sides, by the way.

      As for the 80s, the moment when the army of the USSR turned into the army of the Russian Federation of the PCV model will never be established. Although the slanderers of Russia claim that the collision of the army that went to Afghanistan with the one that later went to Kuwait is painful to imagine.
  6. +4
    11 June 2019 07: 31
    The GSVG was also the most combat-ready formation of the SA, where they trained normally, and were constantly shooting and training. But, in the event of a major war in Western Europe with the use of nuclear weapons, I do not think that even with strictly defensive actions by NATO, there would be nothing left of it. Nuclear strikes could be carried out on the “spear point” of advancing formations, on columns, on logistics.
    1. +4
      11 June 2019 07: 45
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Nuclear strikes could be carried out on the "spear point" of advancing units, on columns,

      Well, it was something not only to defend, but also to advance
      Considering that self-propelled guns could fire nuclear shells, this gave the tank formations colossal power. For example, the 10th Guards Tank Division had 36 ACS 2S3 "Akatsia". If each of them had one 3BV3 shell with a capacity of 2,5 kt, then the division would have 36 shells with a total yield of 90 kt. Hence the conclusion that even without the support of missilemen and aviation, in this spirit of an offensive under the "nuclear fungus", the 10th Guards Tank Division was quite able to make its way to the English Channel.

      And it's not just words. They could.
      1. +5
        11 June 2019 08: 42
        Yes, it is clear that there was something to advance, just a bunch of nuclear strikes would also be delivered on ours.
        1. +1
          11 June 2019 08: 42
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Yes, it is clear that there was something to advance, just a bunch of nuclear strikes would also be delivered on ours.

          In war as in war
          1. +1
            11 June 2019 10: 02
            Just any breakthrough is completely stopped by a series of nuclear strikes. Therefore, no breakthroughs and cavalry attacks, any fist will immediately receive a nuclear kick. Therefore, only dispersed shootings by groups that are a pity to spend a nuclear charge
            1. +2
              11 June 2019 10: 16
              Quote: BlackMokona
              Therefore, only dispersed shootings by groups that are a pity to spend a nuclear charge

              But the Germans seriously thought along the border to bury the nuclear landmines
              1. -1
                11 June 2019 11: 57
                So this is only a plus of my position. Nuclear mines also greetings to any attempt by a dashing cavalry attack
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +1
                11 June 2019 17: 42
                Americans, Germans hardly solved such issues
            2. +4
              11 June 2019 12: 23
              If you get. A tank battalion travels a kilometer in about two minutes and leaves the zone of dangerous defeat. It’s not so easy to get into moving tanks.
              1. -1
                11 June 2019 12: 31
                It’s not so difficult considering the abundance of nuclear weapons in NATO troops, the same nuclear infantry grenade launchers, knapsack nuclear charges, nuclear shells for field artillery, tactical nuclear bombs for front-line aviation
                1. +3
                  12 June 2019 00: 58
                  Without any nuclear weapons, attack aircraft calmly
                  smashes columns of tanks on the march NURami. Only when
                  the tanks are very dispersed and there are few of them,
                  then the attack aircraft have to tinker.
                  I myself am a big fan of tanks, but their use
                  the author imagines himself cut off from reality
                  teachings of the Brezhnev period.
                  1. +1
                    12 June 2019 11: 51
                    I myself am a big fan of tanks, but their use
                    the author imagines himself cut off from reality
                    teachings of the Brezhnev period
                    .

                    It seems to me alone that the author is writing about the time of Brezhnev?
                  2. 0
                    13 June 2019 10: 25
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    assault aircraft calmly
                    smashes columns of tanks on the march NURami.

                    This is if the tank column goes without an air defense umbrella. With the presence of air defense, everything is much more complicated.
              2. +4
                12 June 2019 00: 52
                "A tank battalion covers a kilometer in about two minutes" ////
                ------
                They made fun. This is on ostentatious linden exercises in front of the generals.
                In reality, tanks move slowly and carefully.
                In order not to collide with each other, not to damage the guns, not
                fall into some ravine.
                This is even before meeting with the enemy.
                1. 0
                  12 June 2019 01: 32
                  In Israel, perhaps, drive carefully.
                  And in Europe, tankers drive fast, and work it out, because speed and maneuver are not to be burned.
                  1. +3
                    12 June 2019 10: 25
                    In Europe, the Second World War flared. And in it the tanks - of all sides - were also moving cautiously at low speeds. No one drove like a parade.
                    You've seen enough of the fake GDR teachings. In the 30s they also liked to talk about the "speed and maneuver" of high-speed BT tanks.
                    Until the Wehrmacht sobered the "tank cavalrymen".
                    In the 70s, the fat Brezhnev generals, stunned by tens of thousands of tanks that stamped Soviet factories, again returned to failed doctrines.
                    It was lucky that the "throw to the English Channel" did not take place (Because of the ICBM)
                    This would be an unprecedented mass extermination of tanks.
                    1. +1
                      12 June 2019 12: 43
                      I've read in a good ten memoirs of tankers a lot of points about speed and maneuver, including on the battlefield. And the anti-tankists also often recalled how quickly enemy tanks were moving, reaching their guns and crushing them with tracks.
                      1. 0
                        18 June 2019 11: 31
                        Quote: wehr
                        I've read in a dozen tank memoirs a lot of points about speed and maneuver, including on the battlefield.

                        Only you imagine this speed somewhat in your own way. And if you look at the statistics of the released / destroyed tanks, you will see that they were very well handled. Especially with our
              3. 0
                18 June 2019 11: 29
                Well, during WWII, artillery coped well with this task, on both sides, so there’s no need to tell us tales
            3. 0
              12 June 2019 22: 54
              To do this, you need to know where the breakthrough is. Where are your troops and enemy troops. A nuclear strike on its troops is quite real in the conditions of quick and coordinated advancements and deceptive actions.
    2. 0
      12 June 2019 22: 49
      Under the leadership of Marshal Ogarkov, the battlefield automated control system, sharpened for atomic warfare, was put into operation for the first time in the world. It made it possible to occupy enemy territory at such a speed that his reconnaissance would not have time to update the operational map. Therefore, the enemy's nuclear strikes would fall either on empty spaces or on their own. The enemy would not understand where the "spear point", which would not be. It was a new generation of blitzkrieg.
      It is a pity that none of the alternative specialists have bothered to write the corresponding technotriller yet. Clancy doesn’t count, he wrote with his happy end, casually juggling the facts.
      1. +2
        13 June 2019 10: 32
        "Under the leadership of Marshal Ogarkov ...
        "It made it possible to occupy enemy territory at such a speed that his reconnaissance would not have time to update the operational map" ////
        ----
        A typical example of the "manilovism" of Brezhnev's generals and marshals in the 70s and 80s. A classic example of a disconnect from reality in the rapture of tens of thousands of tanks and nuclear weapons.
        A complete analogy with 30 years - the Red Army bursts into thousands of high-speed BT tanks into bourgeois Europe, unable to defend itself.
        1. +1
          13 June 2019 13: 23
          In the assault on Berlin, they did so. Breakthrough - occupation of the 3rd line of defense and ammunition depots - encirclement of the departing Germans from the 1st line - forcing surrender or destruction. At this time, the German General Staff sent reinforcements to line 1. We did not have time to monitor the situation.
          About ACS "Maneuver".
          "The Minsk Research Institute of Automation Equipment NPO Agat embodied it in metal and silicon based on Soviet processors, which then surpassed their counterparts from the American company IBM, and in 1981 they tested the novelty at the Zapad-81 exercises. Subsequently, after the collapse of the USSR, from copies of "Maneuver" fell into the hands of the Americans, they were horrified to find out that using this system, the Warsaw Pact could utterly defeat NATO without any atomic weapons in just three days.
          Then the "Maneuver" was tested at the "Shield-82" exercise - everything worked fine again. The effectiveness of troop actions, the density of fire and its accuracy increased 3-5 times. In addition, fundamentally new equipment was just beginning to enter the army - T-80 tanks, Mi-28 helicopters, MiG-31 fighter-interceptors, etc. Together with a computer control system, a highly organized and highly accurate mobile military structure was obtained, which was simply impossible to resist. The reorganization of the entire Soviet army on the basis of "Maneuvers" and the principles of the "Ogarkov doctrine" gave colossal advantages. And not only on the battlefield. "
          https://mpsh.ru/1980-kompjuternyj-marshal-doktrina-marshala-ogarkova.html
          And where is the manilism? Another thing is that there were many opponents of the introduction of the system, since it involved the reduction of aircraft and posts.
          1. 0
            18 June 2019 11: 33
            Quote: meandr51
            In the assault on Berlin, they did so.

            Do not remind us how many tanks and tankers we lost there?
  7. +2
    11 June 2019 08: 21
    Starting from the 1980s, in the event of a nuclear conflict, the SA delivered not one but two blows in divergent directions:
    - one to the west to the English Channel;
    - the second to the south to the Bab-el-Mandeb Strait.

    Plus, the nuclear bombing of Japan and North Korea - the US bridgehead in the Far East. A massive nuclear missile strike on North America was delivered only as a response to a similar strike by the United States on the territory of the USSR.

    As a result, the enemy lost its foothold in Europe and Asia, the fuel and energy base in the Persian Gulf and (optionally) the military-economic potential in North America.
    1. +7
      11 June 2019 09: 24
      Quote: Operator
      Plus Japan’s nuclear bombing and North Korea

      South Korea, most likely you meant it.
      1. +5
        11 June 2019 09: 41
        I apologize - of course South.

        By the way: some people think that Japan is a US military ally who will defend this country in the event of a military conflict with the Russian Federation (for example, when Japan attempts to annex the South Kuril Islands) or a military conflict with China over the Senkaku Islands. Nothing of the kind - Japan for the United States is just a springboard (object), so in the event of any unauthorized actions on its part, Japan will be left alone with its opponents.

        Therefore, it is ridiculous to read malokholnye scenarios of the Russian-Japanese war - how brave samurai land on the Southern Kuriles with the help of their super-duper fleet [while the Japanese islands are covered with a glassy crust from nuclear explosions] bully
    2. 0
      11 June 2019 17: 44
      What is North Korea to blame for?
  8. +5
    11 June 2019 08: 23
    To begin a global nuclear war, which in the prevailing conditions almost inevitably ended in a stalemate, was obviously meaningless for the American command and political leadership. Huge sacrifices, destruction and damage ... so what? Because the option of war was rejected, the Americans began to look for a solution to the problem in the sphere of psychological warfare and found it.
    Smart people!
    1. -3
      11 June 2019 08: 44
      Quote: kalibr
      in the field of psychological warfare and found it.

      Psychological and economic. Economic first
      1. +3
        11 June 2019 09: 19
        They hit the pain points.
        1. +2
          11 June 2019 09: 23
          Quote: Krasnodar
          They hit the pain points.

          That's it.
          And not only they were painful. They were still weak recourse
        2. 0
          18 June 2019 11: 35
          They do it now. But we, as then, are preparing for an open war with them. Here history and life do not teach us anything. Maybe after they defeat us again, then at least someone will learn a lesson
          1. 0
            24 July 2019 12: 24
            What the Nazis wanted: to capture fertile Ukraine, have free oil and gas, a lot of cheap labor. And who won?
  9. 0
    11 June 2019 09: 54
    Quote: Krasnodar
    on ours, too, would be a bunch of nuclear strikes

    The calculation of the General Staff of the USSR Supreme Soviet was that a nuclear strike by NATO on the first and second echelons of the SA was carried out at the time when all of them had been redeployed to the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany, the GDR, Austria, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.

    Those. during the first (local) stage of the nuclear conflict, the national territories of the USSR, USA, Canada, Britain, France, Italy and Spain were taken out of attack.

    The transition to the second (global) stage of a nuclear conflict was to occur only after an assessment of the results of the first stage. In this case, the occupation by the Soviet Union of the territories of the Persian Gulf countries (the world fuel and energy base) would be a weighty argument for ending the nuclear conflict in the first stage.
    1. +2
      11 June 2019 10: 33
      I do not know. It seems to me that during an attack on Europe, SA troops would have been dropped by nuclear weapons immediately after the first use of the name of tactical nuclear weapons. Perhaps it would be possible to take a couple of European capitals and hold significant forces there, and then proceed to negotiations on a peaceful settlement. Western Europe, consisting of a pile of radioactive ruins, would not be of great value.
      1. +4
        11 June 2019 15: 38
        But why take the capital? hard to get around?
        1. -1
          11 June 2019 15: 58
          Because nuclear weapons would not be beaten in the capitals.
          1. +6
            11 June 2019 17: 57
            Unfortunately for residents of European capitals (with the exception of Moscow) in the event of a local nuclear conflict, they would have been struck primarily because of the numerous headquarters and communications centers in the capitals.
            1. +3
              11 June 2019 17: 59
              According to Brussels - unconditionally and in the first place. For some Paris - I do not know. They would have received a nuclear response in the Soviet cities from the French and the whole concept of limited nuclear war would have turned into total extermination.
              1. 0
                11 June 2019 18: 05
                I agree to a withdrawal from the blows of Paris and London - at the stage of a local nuclear conflict, of course laughing
                1. +3
                  13 June 2019 13: 40
                  Here I am about the same laughing
              2. 0
                13 June 2019 13: 31
                It’s ridiculous. France has no chance to hit the Russian Federation. Moreover, a retaliatory strike. It’s easier to give up, like the Fritz in due time.
                1. +3
                  13 June 2019 13: 41
                  Read about their nuclear potential hi
  10. +1
    11 June 2019 09: 55
    The author is somehow one-sidedly considering the situation. As if in the 60s there was no thermonuclear weapon, as if there were no ballistic missiles R-12, R-16. In 1963 was adopted
    the first Soviet missile with an underwater launch R-21, which could carry a nuclear charge. For the United States, nuclear bombardment of its territory with a dozen R-12s is much more important than the nuclear apocalypse in Europe. I try not to underestimate the importance of GSVG, but a broader analysis shows that GSVG is one of the main, but by no means the main factors of nuclear deterrence.
  11. +1
    11 June 2019 10: 29
    unimaginably cruel nuclear war.
    You have to be a manic psychopath to make that happen.
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 19: 08
      Or as a result of the influence of 3 factors.
    2. +1
      13 June 2019 13: 33
      Not ordinary military.
  12. +5
    11 June 2019 10: 44
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Western Europe, consisting of a heap of radioactive ruins, would not be of great value.

    Quite right (adjusted for the ruins not only in the west, but also in the east of Europe to the borders of the USSR) - the calculation was on the elimination of the American bridgehead in Europe for years of 300 commercials ahead.

    And since the ruins are of no value, the center of economic activity would shift to the Soviet part of Europe and to the Soviet Middle East — including the fraternal Turkish SSR, Iranian SSR, Iraqi SSR, Arabian SSR, Syrian SSR, Jordan SSR, and Israeli SSR.
    1. -3
      11 June 2019 11: 59
      Which would also be complete radioactive ruins, so would Soviet territories
      1. +3
        11 June 2019 12: 17
        Do you like the Russian language - read with a dictionary or not:

        "The calculation of the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces was that a NATO nuclear strike on the first and second echelons of the SA was delivered at a time when they were all already redeployed to the territory of the FRG, the German Democratic Republic, Austria, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. T ie, the national territories of the USSR, USA, Canada, Britain, France, Italy and Spain at the first (local) stage of the nuclear conflict were removed from under attack. The transition to the second (global) stage of the nuclear conflict was to take place only after evaluating the results of the first stage " , - (FROM)
        1. -2
          11 June 2019 12: 35
          So to relocate to NATO territory, you need to go through a barrage of tactical nuclear attacks by NATO on advancing troops and rear forces
          1. +1
            11 June 2019 13: 40
            Naturally - for this, the CA parts were distributed along the front and in depth.

            At the same time, a squall of strikes with tactical nuclear weapons (from 20 to 25 of thousands of Soviet nuclear charges) was also proposed from the eastern side, so that the armored units of the SA would penetrate the entire strategic depth of the enemy like a knife into butter.
            1. -1
              11 June 2019 14: 50
              Only now, the United States alone has more than 30 thousand strategic nuclear weapons at this time and the corresponding number of tactical ones.
              Therefore, there will be a flurry of nuclear charges on both sides, and any tank wedges and other fists are anonymous suicide clubs
              1. +3
                11 June 2019 16: 10
                Quote: BlackMokona
                some US have more 30 thousands of strategic nuclear weapons at this time and the corresponding number of tactical

                The maximum number of strategic and tactical nuclear charges in the United States and the USSR

                You are also in the article in Russian on white explained that the survival of the crews and the landing of armored vehicles in a nuclear war is higher than the infantry.
                1. -2
                  11 June 2019 16: 11
                  There are only strategic ones. Tactics did not appear in any agreement and its number is unknown.
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 13: 35
        Chet, you are completely secret. There wouldn’t be enough wood for everything, given the losses.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  13. +8
    11 June 2019 10: 56
    Surprised that the author is talking about GSVG. Generally speaking, we intended to act in the European part
    The main command of the Western direction (GKZN) of the Soviet army. In total, the State Reserves Commission included 50 divisions including 27 tank and 23 motorized rifle divisions. The State Reserves Committee submitted:
    1) Group of Soviet Forces in Germany (GSVG) consisting of 11 tank and 8 motorized rifle divisions;
    2) Northern Group of Forces (SGV) in Poland as part of the 2 tank divisions;
    3) Central Group of Forces (CGV) in Czechoslovakia as part of the 2 Panzer and 3 Motorized Rifle Divisions
    4) Belarusian Military District (BVI) as part of the 9 Panzer and 2 Motorized Rifle Divisions
    5) Carpathian Military District (PCVO) as part of the 3 Tank and 10 Motorized Rifle Divisions
    And then there is the southern direction ... and how can you reduce everything to GSVG?
  14. +2
    11 June 2019 12: 07
    Yes, because the stripes are afraid to fight in strong countries, mainly they are fighting at the expense of other countries, but their fate could have been decided here, if the stripes were miscalculated, the USSR would have blown them to pieces. war. Very much they were afraid of retaliation from the USSR. Naturally, the restraining factors of the GSVG also played a role.
  15. -7
    11 June 2019 12: 35
    "that in the event of war, Soviet troops can capture all of Western Europe, up to Gibraltar" ////
    ----
    No chance. The Soviet offensive would be overwhelmed for commonplace and ordinary reasons: weak supply logistics, extended communications.
    As an example of success, in the USSR they usually take massive offensives of the Red Army of 44-45 years.
    But they forget that about the 50% of the power of the military-industrial complex and a significant share of the US raw materials industry worked for the Red Army.
    Tanks and equipment need continuous supply, maintenance, repairs.
    Even in the local war in Afghanistan, there were big punctures with this.
    1. +10
      11 June 2019 12: 48
      Quote: voyaka uh
      No chances.

      All odds
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Soviet offensive would have been bogged down for trivial and common reasons: poor supply logistics, extended communications.

      The first time I read how bad it is in an old European woman with communications :))))) To go crazy, poor Europeans :))))
      Quote: voyaka uh
      But they forget that about the 50% of the power of the military-industrial complex and a significant share of the US raw materials industry worked for the Red Army.

      You have something completely wrong with arithmetic. The US Lend-Lease gave England many times more than us. That is, you want to say that in the US, the MIC was 300-400% ... from the MIC USA? laughing
      1. -6
        11 June 2019 13: 25
        What it means to be without supplies, the USSR realized right after May 9, 45. Help ceased suddenly. Food stocks in warehouses ran out rapidly. And a huge army had to be urgently demobilized. The soldier had nothing to feed.
        Even to mess with weak Yugoslavia, when Tito openly sent the Soviet Union ... far away, Stalin did not dare. What a Gibraltar!
        So, armadas of tanks do not solve the matter.
        1. +14
          11 June 2019 13: 45
          Quote: voyaka uh
          What is to be without supply, the USSR understood immediately after 9 May 45 of the year.

          First, what you write is completely wrong. And secondly, even if you were right, the USSR of 1945 and the USSR of 1980 are "slightly" different USSR :))))
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And the huge army had to be urgently demobilized. The soldier had nothing to feed.

          Sorry, but the United States also had nothing to feed their army? They demobilized her, and the fleet :)))))
          In general, the post-war Red Army naturally moved from a military to a peaceful state, which caused demobilization. This was done by absolutely all countries, all armies :) And only a very biased person can attribute this process in the USSR to the tormenting hunger caused by the cessation of supplies
          1. -4
            11 June 2019 14: 45
            In the 70s, Warsaw Pact exercises were regularly held. Once we decided to try: what if we collect tens of thousands of tanks and ... check the "throw to the English Channel."
            Collected. Tanks, armored personnel carriers, etc. The elders of the Politburo were present in the stands.
            The first wave was impressive ...
            The second wave was stuck in the mud and pits made by the first wave.
            An impassable (neither forward or backward) congestion formed from the tanks. Armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles did not have a chance to travel in this mess.
            The Politburo waved his hand and left the teachings annoyed.
            Thus ended the campaign on the English Channel.
            1. +11
              11 June 2019 15: 03
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Collected. Tanks, armored personnel carriers, etc. The elders of the Politburo were present in the stands.
              The first wave was impressive ...
              The second wave was stuck in the mud and pits made by the first wave.

              This is not surprising, because the window dressing was shown. In a real war with such funny pictures no one would have fun. And I know, first-hand, from those who served there, how the GSVG were able to unfold.
              1. -6
                11 June 2019 15: 12
                In reality, in the June-July war 41 in the battle of Dubno, when the spacecraft counterattacked the Wehrmacht with thousands of tanks, the same fiasco happened. Tanks stuck in their own ruts among their own broken and wrecked tanks. The same impassable congestion and abandoned equipment.
                The generals of the 70s forgot about it and fell into the euphoria of mass.
                Sobering came in the 80th in Afghanistan.
                1. +3
                  11 June 2019 23: 17
                  Stop already raving.
                  GSVG made an exit with its military equipment and more than once. Without getting stuck at the same time. Some units were castling from south to north of the GDR, for example, and performed these marches.
                  In Afghanistan, the 40 Army in 1979 quietly drove through the much worse mountain roads and occupied all the designated points without any particular incidents.
                  1. -6
                    12 June 2019 00: 39
                    Your position on a massive tank offensive
                    very weak.
                    The Americans were afraid of an ICBM strike at their cities, not tanks.
                    Now there are few tanks, few aircraft, practically no fleet,
                    but they are afraid of Russia as well as 50 years ago - precisely because of ICBMs.
                    But the fundamental decision not to strike at the USSR
                    was adopted in Washington with the death of Stalin and the change of course of the CPSU.
                    For peace in the USSR, we must thank Nikita Khrushchev. And for peace in Europe - ICBMs.
                    Strategic nuclear deterrence still provides peace.
                    1. +2
                      12 June 2019 01: 37
                      Was it for the sake of fulfilling the "fundamental decision not to deliver a nuclear strike on the USSR" that the Americans developed SIOP? laughing
                      You're lying very clumsy, trying to twist a very savvy audience. And it looks very funny. Let your bosses get you a referral to a good university to learn a story.
        2. +10
          11 June 2019 15: 27
          That is to be without supplies, the USSR realized immediately after May 9, 45.

          The United States on Lend-Lease gave England many times more than us


          Not just at times more than 10 times.
          So about 400% it is well said.

          About the logistics. No one in the world then solved the logistic task of such complexity as the transfer of industry beyond the Urals and the launch of technological chains in a new place. So the logistics of troop transfers would have been decided somehow.
          By the way, even now the transfer of troops from one end of the country to the other is not bad, which is confirmed by the exercises. Well, for residents of a country the size of the Tver region, this is of course difficult to understand.
          1. -4
            11 June 2019 15: 37
            Well, why is it difficult. We solved logistics tasks such as flying to Iraq, bombing a nuclear reactor and returning without loss. This is not as easy as it seems, without having bombers.
            The transfer of industry to the Urals is a very successful logistics operation. But on its territory. And the Urals have never been bombed. In Western Europe, with a massive offensive by the Soviet Army - logistics on foreign territory and under bombing.
            1. +1
              11 June 2019 17: 56
              Including under nuclear strikes.
            2. Fat
              +3
              11 June 2019 22: 57
              Quote: voyaka uh
              We solved logistics tasks such as flying to Iraq, bombing a nuclear reactor and returning without loss. This is not as easy as it seems, without having bombers.

              This is not logistics! This would be a logistical challenge if fighters not only refueled in the air, but also replenished their ammunition. Or were there "jump airfields"? - then yes, logistics in full.
        3. 0
          13 June 2019 13: 46
          If the hostilities continued, food and fuel supplies would be immediately seized from the enemy. In general, the Lend-Lease supply was not so significant as to influence something. Capture Capabilities Zap. Europe were. It’s just that the politicians of the USSR considered this inappropriate. Perhaps it was a mistake.
      2. +1
        12 June 2019 17: 39
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The first time I read how bad the old woman in Europe with communications :)))))


        After several thousand nuclear explosions in the strip of the first 100 km from the border - very bad.

        They drove into Czechoslovakia on entire roads without enemy opposition, and then all the repair and evacuation units, air defense, sappers, medical personnel, etc., had to be left on the roadside. The road capacity did not allow.
        1. 0
          13 June 2019 13: 49
          When the Soviet convoy from Czechoslovakia accidentally entered the Federal Republic of Germany, the border and tank units of the Bundeswehr hid and pretended that they were not there. Upstairs didn’t say anything.
    2. -1
      13 June 2019 00: 05
      I wouldn’t have any problems with supply and logistics, in Europe there is a developed road and airfield network, I remember in my youth I watched a training film about the transfer of a motorized rifle regiment to the European theater of operations in the context of using ZOMP means, and the loss of tanks of the advanced units of the GSVG would be compensated by the western districts THE USSR,
      The tanks were supported by tactical aviation, covered by air defense and fighter aircraft, according to the estimates of the familiar former military personnel of the highest rank of the ATS country, NATO in Europe had no chance, and with the use of nuclear weapons the conflict would gradually escalate into an unlimited nuclear war, which both parties still remembered well experience of World War II did not dare
    3. 0
      13 June 2019 13: 40
      The United States has even more punctures in Afghanistan. Afghan is Afghan. With Europe it’s easier. No wonder Soviet tanks could work on everything that burns ... Exxon gas stations are at their service! Breakfast at McDonald's!
  16. +3
    11 June 2019 13: 43
    Hence the conclusion: the thesis of “nuclear deterrence” and its miraculous nature is based essentially on a strong underestimation, even ignoring the real military history of the Cold War, that is, this thesis is incorrect from the actual point of view.

    completely false statement based on selective coverage of the topic.
    Initially, the United States presented nuclear weapons on a much larger scale and was easier to deliver.
    But at the same time, NATO ground forces were very weak
    But the USSR quickly launched the production of vigorous bombs, as well as began to improve the means of delivery and if earlier nuclear weapons could only scare a little, then in the 70s the United States, having significantly strengthened the NATO army, could rally a large-scale retaliatory nuclear strike on its territory.
    In the end, that was what became nuclear deterrence. And to belittle this fact, it seems to me, is simply to provoke foolish readers to foment war.
  17. +5
    11 June 2019 13: 45
    In tactical terms, on the battlefield, the US military calculated the effect of using one nuclear charge of 10 kilotons per 4 thousand 155 mm shells - 200 tons of shells.
    When bombing cities, the effect of one 20 kiloton bomb for 2 thousand bombs of 1 ton is 2000 tons of bombs.
    A constraining factor for the United States is the instability of American society on the use of nuclear weapons in the United States. They have beaten and there is today a justification for the fear that after several successful nuclear strikes against big cities there will be a massive and uncontrolled self-evacuation of the population from all big cities and, as a result, the state’s collapses. Something similar my saw Nu Orleans.
    1. +2
      11 June 2019 16: 05
      And also - looting and other unpleasant burps of anarchy. What saves? Military junta, executions without trial, camps, plastic coffins. The National Guard and the Army Returning from the Bodies brutally suppress all unrest, filter the population in the camps, deport millions of black loafers and criminals to Africa, and the Latinos beyond Trump’s wall ...
    2. -1
      11 June 2019 16: 20
      I agree, but what do you write with errors?
      1. 0
        11 June 2019 23: 20
        Kostadinov is Bulgarian, and often writes in Bulgarian. wink
  18. +2
    11 June 2019 13: 59
    Quote: yehat
    to belittle this fact, it seems to me, it means simply to provoke minded readers to incite war

    A close reader here is only you - only the question of a local nuclear war within the borders of Europe proper is discussed without striking attacks on the territory of the USSR and the USA

    I personally like this option - in any situation the European bridgehead of the United States would be guaranteed to be destroyed by joint strikes of American and Soviet tactical nuclear weapons.

    About Europeans, you can only say one thing - when God wants to punish someone, he takes away his mind.
  19. +10
    11 June 2019 14: 15
    Quote: voyaka uh
    No chance. The Soviet offensive would be overwhelmed for commonplace and ordinary reasons: weak supply logistics, extended communications.
    As an example of success, in the USSR they usually take massive offensives of the Red Army of 44-45 years.
    But they forget that about the 50% of the power of the military-industrial complex and a significant share of the US raw materials industry worked for the Red Army.

    The American headquarters did not think so and did not deceive themselves. The Red Army did not receive anything from the United States without which it was impossible to do without. At the same time, the example of the success of the Red Army was not only the offensive at 44-45, but also the successful offensive at 41-43 when the landlize had not yet hit and the combat experience of the Red Army beat much lower.
    But there is a perfect example for which I always point out - the KPA attack in July-August 1950 and then the KND offensive in Korea October-January 1950. Without tanks, with complete domination of enemy aircraft over the battlefield and fleet off the coast, without heavy artillery Successfully against the American troops in Kotorich everything was beaten in a hack. No communications and logistics prevented them - for 100 tons of supply, the Americans KPA answered with 1 tone of supply. The offensive only stopped when the United States deployed additional ground forces and created a preponderance of forces on earth. Against the Red Army, this chance did not beat. It did not beat where to get the troops and create a numerical superiority in the ground forces over the Red Army.
    1. -4
      11 June 2019 14: 53
      "absolutely nothing without which it was impossible to do without" ///
      ---
      Do without gunpowder in shells and explosives for bombs and shells.
      Zhukov said frankly in the 60s: without American gunpowder and explosives, the onset of 44-45 would not have been possible.
      From the age of 43, the Red Army had a bulk of ammunition. They were not saved, they were shot without restrictions (unlike the Wehrmacht). And almost everything is from across the ocean.
      1. +9
        11 June 2019 16: 17
        Quote: voyaka uh
        From the age of 43, the Red Army had a bulk of ammunition. They were not saved, they were shot without restrictions (unlike the Wehrmacht). And almost everything is from across the ocean.

        From overseas came mainly raw materials for ammunition. And all the same, these ammunition was not enough - it took several months to accumulate reserves before major operations.
        Isaev several years ago at VIF-2NE cited data on the consumption of b / p from us and the Germans. Glory to Gosplan, we did not have shell hunger, but there was a slow replacement.
    2. +7
      11 June 2019 16: 13
      Quote: Kostadinov
      The Red Army did not receive anything from the United States without which it was impossible to do without.

      Pure high octane and additives. And mixed gasoline, recorded, by the way, in our statistics in domestic production. 60% of the high octane used by our Air Force is of Lendliz nature.
      Gunpowder and components for their production. By 1944, LL of gunpowder was 42%. By components:
      ... the proportion of imported materials in the total production of gunpowder was 78% for ethyl alcohol in 1943 and 1944, 100% for glycerin in 1943, 60% in 1944 and 80% in the first quarter of 1945, centrality 62% in the year 1943. Thus, there is reason to argue that without the help of allies the production of gunpowder in the USSR would have been much smaller.
      © D. Shein
      Copper. Without it, you can forget, for example, about switching to the 85-mm caliber of the T-34 - the USSR will not have enough copper for shots.
      Tungsten. Without it, only at Tyrnauz, there will be no mass projectile.
      All-wheel drive vehicles. Without it, forget about the pace of offensives of 1944-1945. - mobility of the rear of tank armies and advanced detachments of combined arms armies was provided by LL vehicles.
    3. 0
      13 June 2019 23: 28
      Quote: Kostadinov
      But there is a perfect example for which I always point out - the KPA attack in July-August 1950 and then the KND offensive in Korea October-January 1950.


      In the first case, the main striking force of the North Korean army was four mobile groups composed of three tank regiments and one mechanized brigade, a total of 200 T-34 tanks. For comparison, the South Korean army did not have a single tank, had no aircraft. Its armaments are mainly: 89 105 mm howitzers, rifles and mortars.
  20. +3
    11 June 2019 16: 38
    The Americans did not dare to go to war with the USSR because they knew perfectly well that even with a superiority in nuclear weapons, the victory for the United States would be pyrrhic and that as a result of this victory, the United States would receive such a radioactive background, including on its territory, that it would not seem enough.
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 19: 40
      Quote: NF68
      The Americans did not decide to war with the USSR because

      The American political mechanism could not work out a solution to the world without the USSR. Therefore, when the USSR really drowned in the sea, the Americans began to plug this hole in their picture of the world with anything they got, namely the Russian Federation. They dragged Soviet atomic weapons here, put them in the place of the USSR at the UN, and began to present them as a reformed Soviet Union. We have the result now.
      1. +2
        12 June 2019 15: 06
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Quote: NF68
        The Americans did not decide to war with the USSR because

        The American political mechanism could not work out a solution to the world without the USSR. Therefore, when the USSR really drowned in the sea, the Americans began to plug this hole in their picture of the world with anything they got, namely the Russian Federation. They dragged Soviet atomic weapons here, put them in the place of the USSR at the UN, and began to present them as a reformed Soviet Union. We have the result now.


        After the collapse of the USSR, the Americans very briskly and arrogantly began to demonstrate what the USA really is and what their entire policy is worth. With joy in the craw, the breath was closed and the Americans started peddling. No one began to slow them down and force them to look around.
        1. +2
          12 June 2019 16: 19
          Quote: NF68
          With joy in the goiter, the breath was stolen and the Americans were peddling

          Oddly enough, you are more right than you think.

          One hundred years ago in the United States there was a small state, which could not be paid special attention. However, it was becoming more and more obsolete (I would single out the presidency of T. Roosevelt as a kind of turning point) and under the FDR it even became very rather big.

          Until the 91st, the American political elite justified the existence of a large state by the fact that it was fighting the USSR. This partly made sense, in addition, the USSR provided a certain tuning fork, the falsehood of the American state was more or less obvious. (But another problem arose. The US authorities did not allow, and still do not allow, the idea of ​​politicians being responsible for their decisions in the USA. So, even for the open treason of his country, the US president was not responsible. D. Carter will not let you lie) .

          But after 91, on the one hand, the dismantling of the American state was not carried out, on the other hand, it lost the goal for which it could structure its work. The American state began to "live for itself."

          Any democratic state, which citizens feed a lot and beat little, begins to build socialism. This has been happening in the United States since the 90s.
          1. 0
            13 June 2019 14: 49
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Any democratic state, which citizens feed a lot and beat little, begins to build socialism. This has been happening in the United States since the 90s.

            You can find examples of the modern correct state - where they feed a little and beat a lot?. And it seems to me that you identify the Socialist with the Social.
            1. +1
              13 June 2019 15: 34
              Quote: Town Hall
              You can find examples of the modern correct state - where they feed a little and beat a lot?

              They beat a lot, for example, in Israel, to a lesser extent Taiwan, South Korea. As a result, these countries under external pressure are forced to maintain the effectiveness of their economies and social systems.
              Such a country could be Ukraine, but not fate.
              Relatively little feed, oddly enough, in Switzerland. The taxes there are equine, but they go mainly to the grassroots level. A welfare state at the level of the munitions is wonderful, a welfare state at the level of the central government is very bad.
              Quote: Town Hall
              You identify the Socialist with the Social.

              Not quite.

              The welfare state is focused on supporting citizens. Socialist - on the concentration of economic leverage in their hands. In the USA this is not as bad as in other places, but the process is underway.
              1. 0
                13 June 2019 19: 17
                Taiwan, South Caucasus, Singapore are "enlightened" dictatorships until very recently. Yes, and now they are not far from that. And with state intervention in the economy there is more than.
                1. +1
                  13 June 2019 20: 54
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  Taiwan, South Caucasus, Singapore are "enlightened" dictatorships until very recently. Yes, and now they are not far from that. And with state intervention in the economy there is more than.

                  You see
                  There are some rather rare circumstances in which a conducting state can be effective. A distinct external threat (real, not damned NATO) is just one of those. Three of these countries concerned.

                  Personally, I understand socialism as somewhat different, closer to the USSR during the stagnation period. Although in this matter I become muddy and inaccurate.
                  1. 0
                    13 June 2019 21: 00
                    You yourself noted that such states succeed if there are certain circumstances, an external threat. You can add a small population. I would also add culture. They are all eastern countries. Due to their specific mentality and state / society relations.
                    And what should countries do without these "nuances"?)
                    1. 0
                      13 June 2019 21: 07
                      Quote: Town Hall
                      They are all-eastern countries.

                      Israel is not.
                      Quote: Town Hall
                      And what should countries do without these "nuances"?

                      How do I know? Apparently, each country has something of its own.
                      1. 0
                        13 June 2019 21: 47
                        I doubt that Israel can be classified as a dictatorship. Even if enlightened
                      2. +1
                        13 June 2019 22: 04
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        I doubt that Israel can be classified as a dictatorship

                        Yes, it’s hard to arrange a dictatorship with such a people. On the other hand, the role of the state is very large.
  21. +3
    11 June 2019 17: 30
    All this is speculation. It did not work out with the help of the Armed Forces, they destroyed it with the help of traitors and agents of influence. And now they are doing the same thing. War is too complicated to trust its military.
  22. +3
    11 June 2019 17: 33
    The answer is simple: in the case of the first US nuclear strike, say in the fall of the 1983 of the year on the USSR, 90% of the silos of an ICBM of the Strategic Missile Forces would have been destroyed, that means from 6500 nuclear warheads, of which 6000 with 500 ct and approximately 500 with 700 ct - 650 would have flown, now An SLNM from 3000 warheads would have survived 33%, that is, 100 warheads from 100 ct to 700 ct, now bombers, even if from 156 bombers Tu-95 and M-4 would have survived at least 10 from 10 more warheads (bombs) and 5Mt warhead (CR X-25). Now Europe from 3 RSD-20 Pioneer missiles has survived 270% (not my numbers, serious American scientists, very serious, I can trump their names, but they won’t say anything to the ordinary reader), that is, 10 warheads survived on 33 CT and flew away in NATO, plus some part of the P-270 150 Mt warheads, they will survive from the 12 PU and fly to Europe, and there are only 2,3 million people in that loss in the USA and Europe.
    What's next?
    1. +3
      11 June 2019 17: 36
      amendment (a typo is not 100, but), of course, 1000 SLBM warheads with power from 100 ct to 700ct -Soviet response to SLBMs
      1. +5
        11 June 2019 17: 41
        And these are losses only on the first day, in two weeks they would double, I emphasize - the loss of the killed, not wounded and sick (leukemia), namely the dead.
        1. +4
          11 June 2019 17: 43
          Therefore, the Soviet Union in March 1982 of the year refused the first nuclear strike (I emphasize the above is described not retaliation, but retaliation)
          1. +12
            11 June 2019 17: 48
            The bloody, totalitarian Soviet regime did not even plan the first nuclear strike, and the "democratic" "humanitarian" empire of the US good for the past 75 years did not even think about whether to give up the first nuclear strike, they always counted on it.
            1. +3
              11 June 2019 18: 45
              In general, the Americans did not dare to specifically emphasize the start of a nuclear war (although I really wanted to), because the total capacity of our nuclear strategic triad -6000 Mt, amerovskaya -2000 Mt (it was in the 1980-s), this is not counting the medium range (from 1000 to 55500 km) and tactical (to 120 km) and operational-tactical (from 120 to 1000 km) nuclear weapons.
              1. +2
                11 June 2019 18: 46
                sorry again typo of course 5500 km
    2. +1
      11 June 2019 19: 02
      Quote: Sergey K
      not my numbers, serious American scientists, very serious, I can trump them with names, but they will not say anything to the ordinary reader

      Interesting, however. Write, what kind of heresy have American scientists come up with?
      1. 0
        11 June 2019 19: 05
        What is the heresy of Sergey Vyacheslavovich - argue
    3. +1
      11 June 2019 19: 12
      Quote: Sergey K
      In the case of the first nuclear strike by the USA in the fall of 1983, say, against the USSR, 90% of the silos of an ICBM of the Strategic Missile Forces would have been destroyed

      Argument this statement either yourself or with excerpts from the calculations of American scientists widely known in narrow circles.
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 19: 26
        "Physical and Atmospheric Effects" by Tomas P. Ackerman, it was translated for sale in the union, I bought it in 1988. There a few more authors did not begin to list them all, it is in this book that 90% and 33% of this book, the rest of the figures are from memory from FAS for 1983, forgive the peculiarities of my memory, but you can check all the figures are absolutely reliable, my memory is not when it didn't let me down
        1. +2
          11 June 2019 19: 40
          If there is a claim to a certain figure, then I am responsible for each.
          1. +2
            11 June 2019 19: 54
            Yes, sorry, I forgot to mention the book in translation: "The Consequences of a Nuclear War" in the translation of V. Ye. Prigarin and can. Physics and Mathematics G.L. Stenchikov.
        2. +1
          11 June 2019 20: 00
          Quote: Sergey K
          but you can check all the numbers are absolutely reliable, my memory never let me down

          I believe it myself, in terms of memory. I have not yet found the full text, I will ask my friend to drop the text of the book in English.
          1. +1
            11 June 2019 20: 04
            I have a paper book, it is 1988 of the year of publication, but I would not send a scanner or anything, but these numbers 90 and 33 from there, that's for sure, by the way a very interesting book - I advise you.
            1. +2
              11 June 2019 20: 06
              It noted both Thomas Cochrane and William Arkin - leading experts in nuclear weapons at that time, and now look for such
              1. +4
                11 June 2019 20: 20
                And also, why exactly 1983 year-fall, I could give figures for any year, but this year our nuclear forces are at their peak, and Amer’s are not in the best condition, I can deploy if you are interested, it’ll just be long and hard for perception text. crammed with numbers, hard to perceive, and imagine our first nuclear strike in the fall of 1983, now the whole world would live under communism, I’m now without any irony.
                1. +1
                  11 June 2019 20: 31
                  The American answer would certainly be, but ..... it's about 2000 W-68 warheads with 40 ct power, two-thirds of them would not work, but ours didn’t know about it then, I mean the problems with this warhead and the 90 order -100 W-78 warheads in 100 ct, these are dangerous, but that's all, nothing else would have arrived.
                  1. +1
                    11 June 2019 20: 34
                    Forgive me, of course, not W-78, but W-76, so I reported. 78 would all be burned under the Soviet first strike.
                2. +1
                  11 June 2019 21: 01
                  Quote: Sergey K
                  and imagine our first nuclear strike in the fall of 1983, now the whole world would have lived under communism, now I’m without any irony.

                  Write, read with interest. In the upper right corner of the screen you have a magic "icon", then the first menu item is to download an article. Run the text through Word or analogs in order to avoid mistakes and misprints.
                  1. +4
                    11 June 2019 21: 03
                    Thanks, I’ll take into account that there is little experience in the blogosphere
        3. 0
          12 June 2019 12: 48
          US plans for a nuclear war with the USSR ...
          read the magazine "Foreign Military Review" of the years 1988-1991
          I certainly don’t remember the numbers, but there was a series of articles about US plans.
          Everything is painted what they wanted, how they planned and why they refused.
          Plans constantly changed and adjusted ... but they did not dare to attack first.
    4. 0
      13 June 2019 14: 05
      And then a real war begins. Soviet and Chinese tanks with motorized infantry clear all disputed territories. After that, nothing shines for either McDonald's or Apple. Only Soviet compote and fish days on Thursdays. Zhiguli 2107 as an example of the automotive industry. And universal equality and no exploitation! "Man is man's friend, comrade and brother." "Magnificent, Petka, life will begin!"
      1. 0
        15 June 2019 18: 13
        I'm afraid that you are very mistaken. Although shortsightedness, and very poor awareness is a characteristic feature of the liberal intelligentsia (I have been looking for synonyms, equivalents of those words that revolve in my head, but I have found the benefit of the Russian language exceeds any European language at least four times 400000 words against 100000 in English. Nem fran and dr.). Mac Donalds, of course, would be, food invented for the poor in America 100 years ago. For people whose working day lasted 15-16 hours without days off and holidays and paid sick leave (this was until the end of the 1946 year in the USA) there was no time to cook food, and this food is colorful, simple and cheap. It is necessary to refuel with energy the next day to work for the slave owner, excuse the employer. Moreover, there is still no one to cook food - everyone is at the work of his wife, children from 5 years old are obliged to work. But the epls would hardly be. No, the company would certainly exist, but would produce calculators. Apparently you mean smartphones and mobile phones, I will disappoint you if the USSR were to lose the US nuclear conflict in 1948, there would be no mobile communications. First, it was invented by "Bolshevik" scientists at the beginning of the 1960's in the USSR, and already at the end of the 1960's it was already in every Obkomov and Raykom "Volga". In 1987-1999 during the period of perestroika and liberal capitalism, hundreds of key technologies of Soviet science from mobile communications and oil production by hydraulic fracturing to kefir and yogurt (now they are also called yoghurts) were stolen or bought and bought cheaply, the first mobile phones appeared in the USA in 1989-1991 years. By the way, the most honest were the Japanese, they honestly bought a license for the production of kefir, sorry yogurt in 1989 year. The second - there would be no satellites as such, that is, in principle, in principle, not any military or civilian. Until the 1956 year of the U.S. defense min, there was a ban on the development and production of ballistic missiles with a range of more than 200 miles, (320 km) only Werner von Braun missiles were in service (strange, but the fact about the background can only be guessed, most likely the main reason is the price). Only the test in the USSR on 2 on February 1956 of the R-5M IFRS range of 1200 km with a real detonation of a nuclear warhead at the test site gave impetus to the nuclear missile race, as well as the launch in August 1957 of the Soviet R-7 ICBM, the richest customer in the world, and then and now concluded contracts for hundreds of billions. Dollars for the development of the Atlas and Titan ICBMs. In the 1962, the normal ASM Minuteman-1 ICBM entered service. And several hundred orphaned and unnecessary by the American military were given away by NASA at a low price, they converted them into civilian launch vehicles Atlas-Agen, Titan-3, Titan-34, etc. Here the poor civilian customers began to take advantage of the opportunity, so not only military satellites appeared, but also satellite transmitters of television signals, meteorological, etc. About the social modernization of the developed countries of capitalism is generally out of the question.
        1. 0
          15 June 2019 18: 18
          now even television would be different — cable watched — local news — to carry out from the farmer's fields from the region how many cows he has and how much they give milk, and during breaks they would watch Amerov films of category B — mortal longing.
  23. 0
    11 June 2019 19: 38
    My opinion of an amateur is, at first (Japan), Yao was considered purely as one shell = minus one city (territory), After, as I examined the side of radiation, 10 shells = stop the attack front coming on. (With aggression by ourselves, we need a lot of carriers (and air defense how to break through ?, plus a lot of yao charges, and then what to exploit and when ?. When xiao appears, the question already arises and what for yao xiao to apply because there will be cockroaches. The result is yao turns-turns, an element naturally doesn’t cost me more Here in short and all the short life.
  24. 0
    11 June 2019 21: 29
    Gentlemen, if I’m wrong, correct me: at that time, the Americans had plans for nuclear strikes against the largest Soviet cities. with such strikes, the largest enterprises would be destroyed and a significant part of the population of the USSR would die. The question arises: what would the USSR Armed Forces help here? Suppose they could blow NATO troops in Europe with a blow, but what next? It seems like a stalemate, but if you look: the country is destroyed, most of the population is dead, vast territories were infected. But the Americans would not have all this. So this is not a stalemate, but a defeat (even if delayed)
    1. Fat
      0
      11 June 2019 23: 19
      Quote: Ostap Demchenko
      the Americans at that time had plans for nuclear strikes on the largest Soviet cities. with such strikes, the largest enterprises would be destroyed and a significant part of the population of the USSR would die.

      Quote: Ostap Demchenko
      But the Americans would not have all this. So this is not a stalemate, but a defeat (even if delayed)

      The questions then are different. Why were these plans not implemented? What hindered? What objective factor stood in the way of nuclear confrontation?
    2. 0
      13 June 2019 14: 12
      In the United States, the same would be happening. Do not forget about "Kuz'kina's mother". But socialism, as history shows, has advantages precisely in extreme conditions.
  25. 0
    11 June 2019 23: 13
    Only tanks are capable of following nuclear strikes ... to overcome the zones of radioactive contamination and the resulting blockages


    Tanks are capable, but trucks? All highways in Germany consist of overpass and bridge interchanges. Any explosion is nearby, it means the upper road is interrupted - the bridge collapsed, the lower one is also interrupted - the bridge collapsed on it. And there are hundreds of these interchanges. Where the roadbed is not destroyed, there are thousands of overturned trucks. Nothing remained of the railways. And the roads through the settlements are all barricaded from the collapsed multi-storey buildings. And all other types of bridges, flyovers and tunnels also collapsed. Bridges across wide rivers, like the Rhine or Elbe, also collapsed, and if they did not collapse, they were blown up by the enemy, and if they were not blown up during the retreat, then they were then destroyed by SREM and Pershing missiles along with sappers who will try to restore them. The range of the T-55 over rough terrain is 290 km. We divide by the coefficient of maneuver 1,3 we get 223. It's enough to get to Frankfurt, and then how?
    1. -1
      12 June 2019 00: 22
      The tank with the blade perfectly copes with these problems.
      1. 0
        12 June 2019 22: 47
        Guys, your fantasy has come true, and a well-known story is two weeks to reach Lisbon, but this is a myth. 16 tank and 14 motor rifle in the GHA is for the defense of the socialist camp and for nothing more, no one was going to Western Europe. After the exchange of nuclear strikes. that ATS troops, that NATO. were only able to defend
        1. -2
          13 June 2019 00: 22
          These are not fantasies, but operational plans (or rather, what is known about them). The NDA of the GDR also had offensive plans; in particular, they worked out the storming of West Berlin and the advance to the west.
          1. 0
            13 June 2019 17: 35
            At least once to see these plans, at least photocopies of these documents.
    2. 0
      13 June 2019 14: 24
      And then we refuel at a gas station, confiscate food, deliver ammunition - and go. A bridge for tanks across any river is built in 7 minutes https://vk.com/video18539192_168819310. The Soviet army also had enormous moral superiority. Westerners would surrender to divisions and armies.
      1. +1
        13 June 2019 15: 36
        Quote: meandr51
        The Soviet army also had enormous moral superiority. Westerners would surrender to divisions and armies.

        It seems that the Japanese loved to push it.
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 22: 42
        Quote: meandr51
        refuel at a gas station,


        If it was not set on fire by a nuclear explosion, it did not fill up with debris.

        Quote: meandr51
        confiscate food


        Radioactive.

        Quote: meandr51
        Bridge for tanks across any river in 7 minutes


        Through any not wide the river.
        1. 0
          14 June 2019 14: 55
          The width of the river does not matter. At least 10 km. The norm is not more than 40 minutes. Just customize more pontoons and boats. All act simultaneously.
          The food in the package is quite clean. There are too many gas stations; not enough for all warheads.
          As for the Japanese, ours were an order of magnitude cooler. The veteran father said that in the 45th they never caught up with them. By car. The Westerners would immediately surrender and start cooperating. Since childhood, they have been taught not to resist aggressive individuals, but to call the police. The police would already be ours.
          During the Second World War, even stubborn fascists obeyed the orders of the Soviet commandant’s offices, and women immediately expressed their readiness to work in brothels, appeasing the winners.
  26. xax
    +1
    12 June 2019 00: 42
    Hence the conclusion: the thesis of "nuclear deterrence" and its miraculousness is based in essence on a strong underestimation, even disregard of the real military history of the Cold War

    And you, in turn, greatly underestimate (perhaps you don’t even think about its existence) the following question (it is, however, more relevant if you are going to attack first):

    And how will the soldier (officer) fight, who understands that as a result initiated by US politicians exchange of nuclear strikes, his family, which lived far beyond his military base, no longer exists? Will he approve of the actions of the US "hawks" to unleash a nuclear war?

    In addition, do not forget that the NATO bloc is, of course, a bunch of completely different nations. And securing their faith in the need to subjugate the United States is not an easy task. Churchill, for example, in his memoirs describes the rebellion, if I remember correctly, of the Polish division, which refused to fight for the British colonial territories in Africa (like, why are we suddenly dying for their colonies here?). I had to distract from the hostilities an even larger number of troops in order to stop this problem. And here it is - because of the actions of US politicians, your family burned down in return fire.

    It is, by the way, for this purpose that the image of Russia and the Russians is demonized. So that if something happens, no one doubts that evil is ahead, not behind. A priori. Because that's how they taught from childhood. First fear, then hate. Have you noticed that many old people from the United States talk about how they were almost panicky afraid of the USSR? At the same time, our old people do not tell this about the United States. Ours were taught that no one would dare to start a nuclear war, so you can sleep peacefully. And they were taught that we are about to begin to destroy them. Why do you think? But because the whipping up of fear that turns into blind hatred (remember how the "communists" in Vietnam were not considered people) is so far the only (albeit frankly bad) recipe for dealing with the above question in the minds of soldiers.
    1. -2
      12 June 2019 01: 43
      This question does not actually exist. Due to the nature of nuclear war, NATO soldiers will simply be confronted with the fact that it began, they will show CNN tear reports and the political officer there will explain to them that it was the Russians who burned their families, and therefore .... well and so on.
      In such a situation, the personal opinion of the soldier, even for himself, will not matter.
      1. xax
        +1
        12 June 2019 12: 50
        Quote: wehr
        In such a situation, the personal opinion of the soldier, even for himself, will not matter.

        Firstly, I gave you an example of poor controllability of troops based on the opinion of a soldier. So your statement, as history teaches, is not true.
        Second, you overestimate the faith of the layman on the other side in your media. They will believe them (or pretend to believe) while it is about the problems of the "Indians" (we bring goodness and democracy to the masses, yes, yes). But as soon as it comes to things that are important for one's own skin, the Western man demonstrates an enviable ability to think critically.
        1. -2
          12 June 2019 13: 12
          There are also quite a few examples when the troops managed well and fought well with the most critical attitude to the war and its objectives. In the memoirs of Wehrmacht soldiers and officers about the Eastern Front - this is even a common place.
          You are making a serious mistake in thinking that the enemy is a coward and a mumble.
          1. xax
            0
            12 June 2019 23: 43
            Quote: wehr
            There are also quite a few examples when the troops managed well and fought well with the most critical attitude to the war and its objectives. In the memoirs of Wehrmacht soldiers and officers about the Eastern Front - this is even a common place.

            I suppose that if these memoirs were written after a different outcome of the Second World War, you would not find that critical attitude in them during the day with fire)). "I was against it, but I am a soldier!" - a common universal excuse of insincere authors for narrow-minded readers. So here by.
            Quote: wehr
            You are making a serious mistake in thinking that the enemy is a coward and a mumble.

            You attribute to me that which is not.
            1. -2
              13 June 2019 00: 26
              The critical attitude in the Wehrmacht was very strong even then, during the war; there was a group of officers who tried to kill Hitler (attempted 1944 of the year). However, managed and fought.
              1. xax
                0
                13 June 2019 00: 40
                In the 44th year, when only a fool did not see where everything was going, two hundred employees out of ten million decided on an assassination attempt. Do you seriously consider this fact proving a high level of critical mood in the Wehrmacht during the war?
                1. -2
                  13 June 2019 12: 39
                  Do you seriously think that because of the critical spirit, an entire army would drop their weapons and run away, even before the war?
                  1. 0
                    13 June 2019 14: 29
                    She just will not come to the camp. There were precedents in NATO. When the alert was announced, the officers remained at home. Therefore, they began to warn that the anxiety was training.
                  2. xax
                    0
                    13 June 2019 16: 42
                    I gave you a precedent. Why would this not happen again, with much more serious motivation?
              2. 0
                13 June 2019 14: 30
                These were fascists. Read Zinoviev. He describes the Bundeswehr of the 70s as a bunch of sissies.
          2. 0
            13 June 2019 14: 33
            Coward and mumble. Fascists can not be taken into account. They are already gone. When the Soviet column mistakenly entered the FRG from Czechoslovakia in 1968, the border and tank units were hiding. They did not even report to the headquarters. They wanted to live, scum!
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 14: 27
        Well, he will catch a leaflet from a Soviet plane and will give up. These are not Russians ...
    2. Fat
      0
      12 June 2019 23: 41
      Quote: xax
      Churchill, for example, in his memoirs describes the rebellion, if I remember correctly, of the Polish division, which refused to fight for the British colonial territories in Africa (like, why are we suddenly dying for their colonies here?).

      Remember correctly, this is "Anders' army". These zholnezhi did not want to fight against the Wehrmacht for the USSR, which armed and equipped them, and then for the British colonies, although the Wehrmacht and the Wehrmacht in Africa and in Eurasia ... NATO has another option: Joint rebuff to a potential aggressor.
  27. +1
    12 June 2019 11: 15
    That's right, the deterrent factor of nuclear weapons is not in shells with 2.5 Kt in the field, but in the probability that a projectile arriving from afar will fall near the Capitol once in 700 times more power ...
  28. +1
    12 June 2019 11: 20
    [quote] [quote = Alexey RA] [quote = Kostadinov] The Red Army did not receive from the USA absolutely nothing without which it was impossible to do without. [/ quote]
    Pure high octane and additives. And mixed gasoline, recorded, by the way, in our statistics in domestic production. 60% of the high octane used by our Air Force is of Lendliz nature. [/ Quote]
    60% are inaccurate, really no more than 40%, but I will not argue. In the first, most of this gas was received after the end of the war in Europe. In the second place, gasoline was consumed mainly by Lendliz aircraft, a significant part of which was the distillation of these aircraft through Siberia or for transport aviation flights. In the third, substitutes for high-octane gasoline beat - water, alcohol, benzene, ski, aniline, etc. - in the USSR they knew and tried these deputies, but they did not have to use them on a large scale. Fourth, their production of octane gasoline could be increased by at least 15-20% if imports did not hit. Fifth, if necessary, they could slightly reduce the power of the engines of bombers and ground-attack aircraft (by about 5-10%) and use gasoline with a lower octane for them. Sixth, could reduce some non-combat flights. Seventh, in August 1944, the Red Army occupied Romania itself with its oil and gasoline resources. The eighth, in early 1945, the Red Army captured the German trophy jet engines Yumo-004 working on kerosene. Everything is separate and taken together means that the Red Army could well do without American gasoline and components.
    [quote] Gunpowder and components for their production. By 1944, LL of gunpowder was 42%. By components:
    [quote] ... the proportion of imported materials in the total release of gunpowder was 78% for ethyl alcohol in 1943 and 1944, 100% for glycerin in 1943, 60% in 1944 and 80% in the first quarter of 1945 g., centrality 62% in the year 1943. Thus, there is reason to argue that without the help of allies the production of gunpowder in the USSR would be much smaller. [/ Quote] © D. Shein [/ quote]
    I made all the components of the USSR, but since it was possible to import, I used it for free, I used it. I am especially curious about the lack of ethyl alcohol - I wonder how much the USSR produced and what the Soviet production of ethyl alcohol was used for. The USSR produced gunpowder in 1941 and 1942 and even before the war (which is not strange). Gunpowder beat themselves different and if some components are not present then others are used. In addition, there are charges with less gunpowder and with more gunpowder. If the gunpowder for heavy artillery is reduced a little, this will be a big economy and there will be no loss of effect. Finally, at the end of the war, how much gunpowder and finished ammunition remained in stocks. So Comrade Shein is, to put it mildly, wrong. The USSR could well do without landlisis and for gunpowder.
    [quote] Copper. Without it, you can forget, for example, about switching to the 85-mm caliber of the T-34 - the USSR will not have enough copper for shots. [/ Quote]
    I also thought. For all ammunition except brass beaters and black metal shells. In addition, sleeves could be used several times.
    [quote] Tungsten. Without it, only at Tyrnauz, there will be no mass projectile shell. [/ Quote]
    And they weren’t beaten by these caliber ones. They did quite well without them.
    [quote] All-wheel drive vehicles. Without it, forget about the pace of offensives of 1944-1945. - mobility of the rear of tank armies and advanced detachments of combined arms armies was provided by LL vehicles. [/ quote]
    But there will be no pace so high and so on. Look at the pace of Allied offensive in the West. They had teal and the troops beat absolutely mechanizing and how it helped them and what was the speed of their attack in 1944.
  29. +1
    12 June 2019 11: 27
    Thank you, the author, it was very interesting and useful to read the article.
  30. 0
    12 June 2019 13: 38
    Quote: pafegosoff
    And also - looting and other unpleasant burps of anarchy. What saves? Military junta, executions without trial, camps, plastic coffins. The National Guard and the Army Returning from the Bodies brutally suppress all unrest, filter the population in the camps, deport millions of black loafers and criminals to Africa, and the Latinos beyond Trump’s wall ...

    And who will serve in this very army if there is a military junta and shot without trial? It is only in Holywood films and fantasies of "fighters against totalitarianism" that it is possible to force a multitude of people to fight through terror.
  31. +1
    12 June 2019 13: 40
    Quote: wehr
    Kostadinov is Bulgarian, and often writes in Bulgarian. wink

    Please forgive me that my Russian is bad.
  32. -1
    12 June 2019 17: 14
    I remembered the song, "A soldier was getting drunk, a tear was rolling down, a trophy saxophone wheezing, and a medal for the city of Washington was shining on his chest."


  33. 0
    13 June 2019 06: 55
    Thank. An interesting analysis.
    It remains to add that the situation after the war would not have been completely stalemate. From the ideological point of view, it would be a defeat for the West, since it would destroy the "citadel of democracy" - Europe. Whereas the United States was just an "armed detachment of the party" defending the "Western", i.e. European values. And if European values ​​persist (overseas), and Europe itself does not exist, is there much use for the West from such a situation?
  34. 0
    13 June 2019 08: 51
    The whole article, and one answer, they were frightened and I did the right thing.
    Russian is better not to bully!
  35. +1
    18 June 2019 11: 15
    Delirium is unimaginable. Simply because the "attackers" themselves will be hit by both radioactive radiation and precipitation.
  36. 0
    20 June 2019 17: 51
    Quote: Operator
    I personally like this option - in any situation the European bridgehead of the United States would be guaranteed to be destroyed by joint strikes of American and Soviet tactical nuclear weapons.

    Have you ever wondered what will happen after the nuclear attacks in Europe?
    Are you sure that everything will end? The USA will remain embittered and not touched by the war, we will receive a radioactive garbage dump nearby - until the Urals everything will be virtually infected.
    But how do you like radioactive rain?
    1 Chernobyl, which compared to the war is nonsense, dirtied a significant part of Europe.
    What about fukushima? Half of the Pacific Ocean phonite.