Hypersound on hydrogen. Just not to build the engine for the Su-57
I'll start with a quote, because it will not be alone. And then we will comment, and not just like that, but with a former employee of the hydrogen workshop at KBXA. In fact, this is not exactly a workshop, it is actually a factory in a factory. Was.
Today, the hydrogen production at the plant is minimized and disappeared into history together with the carrier rocket "Energy". Nobody needed the necessary workshops and people who work anywhere, just not in the space industry, but my interlocutor is a rare exception, since he is still loyal to the cosmos.
Why, after reading the article "Military hypersound on hydrogen hydrogen - fighters of the sixth generation"I turned to him, I think, understandably. With whom else to discuss such Napoleonic plans, if not with a hydrogen specialist?
But let's go from the very beginning.
The traditional set of stamps, nothing new. Indeed, it seems like a joke about the Japanese and UAZ. “That's what the Russians will not think of, just not to build roads.” So here - what can we not think of, what fantastic projects we are not realizing, if only a simple aircraft engine could not be completed.
Although, it turns out, it is not so simple, this is “30 Product”. By analogy with marine diesels, it all fits. We cannot build a gas turbine engine for a destroyer or a frigate — we drank the hell out of more than Peter the Great by displacing it with atomic propulsion and call it a destroyer.
The same is beginning to be seen in the plan. aviation engines. We cannot finish what we have planned - no question. We will declare it obsolete "fifth generation" and loudly declare that we do not agree with less than sixth!
The main thing is to shout loudly so that everyone can hear and feel the triumph of the moment.
We do not need this fig leaf - the fifth generation fighter. We need the sixth, and preferably the eighth, on a plasma, ionic, nuclear drive. Well, at least - on hydrogen.
And on kerosene let the stupid you know who fly. On their own Fu-22 and Fu-35. And we, the Russian videoconferencing, will fly tomorrow on technology the day after tomorrow! Hooray!
And no one, however, does not care about a huge number of the latest Su-27 and MiG-29 in the Air Force of the country.
But let us return to the hydrogen engine, about which Artamonov so eloquently speaks. Referring to the great achievements of the country in the form of the creation of the Avangard, the Dagger and other miracle weapons, which do not yet exist, but which will definitely be sometime, he smoothly proceeded to the fact that something must be done in aviation.
In principle, everything is clear. Since we are not able to make a normal fifth generation aircraft, then we need the eighth, which will allow us to go into space, and there ...
And what's in there?
Indeed, with whom we will fight in space? It seems that none of the potential opponents expressed plans for such incredible projects.
Moreover, if you turn on the fantasy to the fullest, then you can draw yourself a sort of vessel of size, probably with IL-96 or “Mriya”, capable of taking off and using a hydrogen engine for some reason to fly into space.
Well, it will fly into space. It is still theoretically MiG-25 could do, and on kerosene. What's next? Artamonov does not answer this question, he simply writes that it is necessary - and that's it. The main thing is to have something to fly into space, and what to do there, as they say, then we will understand, so it turns out?
The fact that this huge bandura (the fuel supply has not been canceled by anyone) can, say, hit the satellites in a low orbit, I won’t call into question. But for this, they say, it's enough C-500, which obviously will be easier. And cheaper.
You can, of course, load on this spacecraft some weapons and deliver ... But forgive me, why then Avangard, Daggers, Topol, Yarsy and other missiles that can do all this no less efficiently, but much cheaper?
So the question “why?” Is left (until the end of the article) open.
We proceed smoothly to the engine, which will have to move this wonder-creepiness in space.
Mr. Artamonov cites as an example an experiment with a Tu-155 aircraft, on which one (!!!) experimental NK-88 engine was installed.
Mr. Artamonov is cunning, oh how cunning ... Yes, that was the engine. And the plane flew with him. And even set several records, but ... the Tu-155 flew с engine NK-88, not on him That is, the NK-88 was used as a power plant. together with two conventional kerosene engines.
Moreover, the author is silent that the installation for the storage of all 17 cubic meters of hydrogen took just half of the aircraft. And working with such an amount of hydrogen Tu-155 could take two whole hours. Using both normal engines.
Yes, it can be said that the experience of this experiment proved that hydrogen can serve as a fuel. But, first, it was already known, and secondly, no one has canceled the problems associated with this element.
To begin with, the mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is second only to nuclear weapons in effectiveness as explosives.
Comrades pilots, who wants to kamikaze here? No, seriously, how do you like a fighter who gets off ONE bullet? One shard that broke through any tube? Even the second incendiary bullet is not needed. Hydrogen itself cope perfectly well. Any hydrogen leak is an explosion. And this, quite a.
That is, we will not talk about serious combat use of this miracle technique.
But before going into space and making war there, a spaceship must be a miracle weapon ... what? Correctly, prepared accordingly. But we have problems with it.
God forbid that these things, which Artamonov dreams of, be based on a pair of aerospace stations. More and do not need, no longer pull. And that's why.
Hydrogen is a very specific gas. And its specificity begins from the moment of extraction. Yes, it must be obtained. This time. Then it must be stored somewhere. These are two.
In general, hydrogen storage itself is a saboteur’s dream, since it’s not necessary to excel, and the effect is just that.
But, even after extracting and preserving what is difficult in itself, hydrogen must also be made liquid. In order to more climbed into the miracle space plane. We are liquefying. These are three.
And then a couple of nuances.
The first. Hydrogen is in a liquid state at temperatures from −252,76 to −259,2 ° C. Seven degrees is a very small range. And keep it in this range is already a problem.
Second. Hydrogen is very fluid, contagion. Not as fluid as helium, but nonetheless. Plus, the critical parameters of hydrogen are very low: the temperature is –240,2 ° C and the pressure is 12,8 atmospheres.
I translate: they missed the pressure and the temperature - hello, here it is, the gas, just waiting for the moment, to tell everyone about their appearance as a woman.
At this, I think, the crap about hydrogen at the airfields can not continue. It is clear that what is perfectly acceptable in the space industry, which is still on the cutting edge of science and technology, is unacceptable for our airfields.
Yes, it will be very difficult to protect such objects, no matter how deep they are hidden. A production plant, a liquefaction plant, liquefied gas storage facilities, plus nitrogen production for purging storage facilities and systems (it is possible with oxygen, but the effect will be slightly different, though more colorful), plus a power plant nearby. Because all this mass will need to somehow be fed. Otherwise ...
Well, how effective can you imagine? Honestly, I can not. No matter how they talk about the professionalism of our video conferencing system (which is generally the case), in this case, any mistake will come around ...
Well, with the protection and defense of all this luxury is also unclear. Sorry, but this is not even RBMK efficiency, if that. This is not an object, but a saboteur’s dream will be. If, of course, the saboteur survives a volume explosion of several tons of hydrogen.
In short, not all of this looks.
But another quote that reveals the beauty of the situation.
Layout with the stated characteristics ... How many such layouts, God forgive me, they poked me in the face at all these exhibitions, it is terrible to remember.
Layout - cool thing. I collected something, stated characteristics, and build and not necessarily. Today, this is sure to remove the cartoon on the computer, how it will function. And show the whole world, they say, fear us, we have what will happen!
Here is a picture of the "Avant-garde" I took from the site of the Ministry of Defense. Modest and tasteful.
As an epilogue, I would like to say that this is what Alexander Artamonov wrote, not an isolated incident. This is already some kind of informational shaft about our achievements or readiness to reach new heights.
Of course, it would be more honest to just say that we are unable to bring the “30 Product” to our mind. It is believed in. It would be more honest to say that Russia cannot build an engine for an average ship, such as a destroyer or a corvette.
No, we will "invent" dozens of types of "miracle weapons" and look like a laughing stock. Because it is unlikely that you will frighten anyone with a fairy tale about the readiness to gash a space fighter and destroy all life in space.
When you come across such a completely unprofessional composing of fairy tales for hurray-patriots, it becomes really offensive for the state.
And you begin to understand that there will be no "Armata", there will be no Su-57, there will be no "Kurgants", there will be no destroyers, frigates and landing craft. We just can not master it all.
And in 10 years, our army will still be armed along the lines and patterns of the 80s of the last century, with scanty inclusions in the form of air defense and EW, where there are some successes.
But we will be fed with tales about space fighters, underwater death-bombers, gliders, lasers and other fiction, often unscientific.
It is sad to realize that fairy tales are becoming less true in our country.
Today, the hydrogen production at the plant is minimized and disappeared into history together with the carrier rocket "Energy". Nobody needed the necessary workshops and people who work anywhere, just not in the space industry, but my interlocutor is a rare exception, since he is still loyal to the cosmos.
Why, after reading the article "Military hypersound on hydrogen hydrogen - fighters of the sixth generation"I turned to him, I think, understandably. With whom else to discuss such Napoleonic plans, if not with a hydrogen specialist?
But let's go from the very beginning.
"Military hypersound on hydrogen - fighters of the sixth generation".
“For some time pure hydrogen power plants will coexist with traditional engines, as horses used to get along with the first internal combustion engines. But the future is already decided. ”
"Russia is ready for a breakthrough for the transition to the technology of the sixth generation" and so on.
“For some time pure hydrogen power plants will coexist with traditional engines, as horses used to get along with the first internal combustion engines. But the future is already decided. ”
"Russia is ready for a breakthrough for the transition to the technology of the sixth generation" and so on.
The traditional set of stamps, nothing new. Indeed, it seems like a joke about the Japanese and UAZ. “That's what the Russians will not think of, just not to build roads.” So here - what can we not think of, what fantastic projects we are not realizing, if only a simple aircraft engine could not be completed.
Although, it turns out, it is not so simple, this is “30 Product”. By analogy with marine diesels, it all fits. We cannot build a gas turbine engine for a destroyer or a frigate — we drank the hell out of more than Peter the Great by displacing it with atomic propulsion and call it a destroyer.
The same is beginning to be seen in the plan. aviation engines. We cannot finish what we have planned - no question. We will declare it obsolete "fifth generation" and loudly declare that we do not agree with less than sixth!
The main thing is to shout loudly so that everyone can hear and feel the triumph of the moment.
We do not need this fig leaf - the fifth generation fighter. We need the sixth, and preferably the eighth, on a plasma, ionic, nuclear drive. Well, at least - on hydrogen.
And on kerosene let the stupid you know who fly. On their own Fu-22 and Fu-35. And we, the Russian videoconferencing, will fly tomorrow on technology the day after tomorrow! Hooray!
And no one, however, does not care about a huge number of the latest Su-27 and MiG-29 in the Air Force of the country.
But let us return to the hydrogen engine, about which Artamonov so eloquently speaks. Referring to the great achievements of the country in the form of the creation of the Avangard, the Dagger and other miracle weapons, which do not yet exist, but which will definitely be sometime, he smoothly proceeded to the fact that something must be done in aviation.
“In combat aviation, only one type of propulsion unit is traditionally used - atmospheric, using kerosene as fuel. In rocket production, be it space or combat, direct-flow engines are used, allowing them to go beyond the limits of the earth's atmosphere into near space. In the field of application of fighters more than once the question arose of such a design, which with the same success could be moved both in airless space in near-earth orbit, and during normal flight in the atmosphere. "
In principle, everything is clear. Since we are not able to make a normal fifth generation aircraft, then we need the eighth, which will allow us to go into space, and there ...
And what's in there?
Indeed, with whom we will fight in space? It seems that none of the potential opponents expressed plans for such incredible projects.
Moreover, if you turn on the fantasy to the fullest, then you can draw yourself a sort of vessel of size, probably with IL-96 or “Mriya”, capable of taking off and using a hydrogen engine for some reason to fly into space.
Well, it will fly into space. It is still theoretically MiG-25 could do, and on kerosene. What's next? Artamonov does not answer this question, he simply writes that it is necessary - and that's it. The main thing is to have something to fly into space, and what to do there, as they say, then we will understand, so it turns out?
The fact that this huge bandura (the fuel supply has not been canceled by anyone) can, say, hit the satellites in a low orbit, I won’t call into question. But for this, they say, it's enough C-500, which obviously will be easier. And cheaper.
You can, of course, load on this spacecraft some weapons and deliver ... But forgive me, why then Avangard, Daggers, Topol, Yarsy and other missiles that can do all this no less efficiently, but much cheaper?
So the question “why?” Is left (until the end of the article) open.
We proceed smoothly to the engine, which will have to move this wonder-creepiness in space.
Mr. Artamonov cites as an example an experiment with a Tu-155 aircraft, on which one (!!!) experimental NK-88 engine was installed.
Mr. Artamonov is cunning, oh how cunning ... Yes, that was the engine. And the plane flew with him. And even set several records, but ... the Tu-155 flew с engine NK-88, not on him That is, the NK-88 was used as a power plant. together with two conventional kerosene engines.
Moreover, the author is silent that the installation for the storage of all 17 cubic meters of hydrogen took just half of the aircraft. And working with such an amount of hydrogen Tu-155 could take two whole hours. Using both normal engines.
Yes, it can be said that the experience of this experiment proved that hydrogen can serve as a fuel. But, first, it was already known, and secondly, no one has canceled the problems associated with this element.
To begin with, the mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is second only to nuclear weapons in effectiveness as explosives.
Comrades pilots, who wants to kamikaze here? No, seriously, how do you like a fighter who gets off ONE bullet? One shard that broke through any tube? Even the second incendiary bullet is not needed. Hydrogen itself cope perfectly well. Any hydrogen leak is an explosion. And this, quite a.
That is, we will not talk about serious combat use of this miracle technique.
But before going into space and making war there, a spaceship must be a miracle weapon ... what? Correctly, prepared accordingly. But we have problems with it.
God forbid that these things, which Artamonov dreams of, be based on a pair of aerospace stations. More and do not need, no longer pull. And that's why.
Hydrogen is a very specific gas. And its specificity begins from the moment of extraction. Yes, it must be obtained. This time. Then it must be stored somewhere. These are two.
In general, hydrogen storage itself is a saboteur’s dream, since it’s not necessary to excel, and the effect is just that.
But, even after extracting and preserving what is difficult in itself, hydrogen must also be made liquid. In order to more climbed into the miracle space plane. We are liquefying. These are three.
And then a couple of nuances.
The first. Hydrogen is in a liquid state at temperatures from −252,76 to −259,2 ° C. Seven degrees is a very small range. And keep it in this range is already a problem.
Second. Hydrogen is very fluid, contagion. Not as fluid as helium, but nonetheless. Plus, the critical parameters of hydrogen are very low: the temperature is –240,2 ° C and the pressure is 12,8 atmospheres.
I translate: they missed the pressure and the temperature - hello, here it is, the gas, just waiting for the moment, to tell everyone about their appearance as a woman.
At this, I think, the crap about hydrogen at the airfields can not continue. It is clear that what is perfectly acceptable in the space industry, which is still on the cutting edge of science and technology, is unacceptable for our airfields.
Yes, it will be very difficult to protect such objects, no matter how deep they are hidden. A production plant, a liquefaction plant, liquefied gas storage facilities, plus nitrogen production for purging storage facilities and systems (it is possible with oxygen, but the effect will be slightly different, though more colorful), plus a power plant nearby. Because all this mass will need to somehow be fed. Otherwise ...
Well, how effective can you imagine? Honestly, I can not. No matter how they talk about the professionalism of our video conferencing system (which is generally the case), in this case, any mistake will come around ...
Well, with the protection and defense of all this luxury is also unclear. Sorry, but this is not even RBMK efficiency, if that. This is not an object, but a saboteur’s dream will be. If, of course, the saboteur survives a volume explosion of several tons of hydrogen.
In short, not all of this looks.
But another quote that reveals the beauty of the situation.
“In 2005, at MAKS, on one of the Russian stands, a mock-up of a hypersonic aircraft“ Igla ”was presented.
According to the declared characteristics, such a device with a crew on board or in the mode drone reaches Mach 50 in 14 seconds! Still, it is worth clarifying that so far, that is, after 14 years, experts still consider the figure of 5-7 M to be more realistic. Such a device is quite capable of becoming the very low-orbit fighter capable of operating in the "atmosphere-near space" mode .
According to the declared characteristics, such a device with a crew on board or in the mode drone reaches Mach 50 in 14 seconds! Still, it is worth clarifying that so far, that is, after 14 years, experts still consider the figure of 5-7 M to be more realistic. Such a device is quite capable of becoming the very low-orbit fighter capable of operating in the "atmosphere-near space" mode .
Layout with the stated characteristics ... How many such layouts, God forgive me, they poked me in the face at all these exhibitions, it is terrible to remember.
Layout - cool thing. I collected something, stated characteristics, and build and not necessarily. Today, this is sure to remove the cartoon on the computer, how it will function. And show the whole world, they say, fear us, we have what will happen!
Here is a picture of the "Avant-garde" I took from the site of the Ministry of Defense. Modest and tasteful.
As an epilogue, I would like to say that this is what Alexander Artamonov wrote, not an isolated incident. This is already some kind of informational shaft about our achievements or readiness to reach new heights.
Of course, it would be more honest to just say that we are unable to bring the “30 Product” to our mind. It is believed in. It would be more honest to say that Russia cannot build an engine for an average ship, such as a destroyer or a corvette.
No, we will "invent" dozens of types of "miracle weapons" and look like a laughing stock. Because it is unlikely that you will frighten anyone with a fairy tale about the readiness to gash a space fighter and destroy all life in space.
When you come across such a completely unprofessional composing of fairy tales for hurray-patriots, it becomes really offensive for the state.
And you begin to understand that there will be no "Armata", there will be no Su-57, there will be no "Kurgants", there will be no destroyers, frigates and landing craft. We just can not master it all.
And in 10 years, our army will still be armed along the lines and patterns of the 80s of the last century, with scanty inclusions in the form of air defense and EW, where there are some successes.
But we will be fed with tales about space fighters, underwater death-bombers, gliders, lasers and other fiction, often unscientific.
It is sad to realize that fairy tales are becoming less true in our country.
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