INF Treaty fell into a groundhog day

38
So, since February 2, the United States has suspended its participation in the INF Treaty (the Treaty on the Elimination of Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range Missiles), because "Russia is violating the Treaty." It is curious that this happened on Groundhog Day - there is a hidden symbolism in it.

So far this is not the end of the Treaty, but it is the beginning of its agony. We can say that the patient fell into a coma. And in six months he will be inevitable demise. At the same time, Trump's statements about the desire to conclude a new INF Treaty, but with the participation of China, are also generally untenable. For now, China will not agree to any INF agreements, if only because it is necessary to involve India, and there both Pakistan, and the DPRK, and, in an amicable way, and Israel. Are these countries ready for such an agreement? Not. Not ready, and China. Moreover, Chinese means of medium and shorter range are largely non-nuclear, and go to the elimination of this weapons under a nuclear agreement - why do it? Trump, perhaps, does not know and does not understand this, but his assistants, at least some of them, understand clearly, and this statement is only an attempt to play the ostentatious peacefulness. As well as our response peace statements. Everyone wants peace and is preparing to defend it at any cost, right down to a stone on a stone ...



The Americans give these half a year "for reflection" not because they are trying to show "goodwill" and give us time to "return to the execution of the Treaty", which we are not going to do in any case - whether we have violated it or not, no one has so far and not proven, nor is it proven otherwise. And we are not even going to because the USA is not going to correct its violations either (real ones and attributed to them, where without it). Just such a six-month pause is spelled out in the Treaty itself.

Article XV
1. This Agreement is perpetual.
2. Each Party, in the exercise of its state sovereignty, has the right to withdraw from this Agreement if it decides that the exceptional circumstances related to the content of this Agreement jeopardized its highest interests. It notifies the other Party of its decision to withdraw from this Agreement six months before withdrawal. Such a notification contains a statement of exceptional circumstances that the notifying Party regards as jeopardizing its highest interests.


The Americans took advantage of the 2 clause by sending us a statement of exceptional circumstances. What will happen now? Well, to begin with, we can say that in these six months, neither side will take any real steps openly. The contract formally still acts, why openly violate it (if you can continue to do what you did, or do nothing if you did not violate anything).

But after that, when the termination of the INF Treaty becomes a fact, it will be possible to make some real open steps. For now, Russia can continue to deploy the Iskanders-M with both the old set of ballistic and cruise missiles, and with new launchers designed for 4 KR instead of 2 on the old one. The United States believes that about hundreds of such missiles are already in service with us in the "4 divisions." Obviously, we are talking about 16 SPU with 4 KR on each, well, and stock of missiles. You can notice the following about this launcher - it was already shown more than 10 years ago, and then it was issued for the Club PCR ground launch (export version of the sea-based CD 3М14, which the Iskander-M complex-level CD, like 9X728, shorter, which is longer (9М729). And there it came out as a result - it was useful in some capacity. Yes, for sure for this and was created.



By this very new launcher you can notice the following. If someone thinks that it is intended only for the CD, and the BR of the Iskander-M complex should not be placed on it, then there is reason to assume that he is mistaken. KR of this complex have transport and launch containers (TPK), and do not need a “barn” sheltering them from the miseries of the surrounding world and its sliding roof. Yes, to reduce radar visibility "barn" for missiles is useful, as well as for masking, but obviously it is intended not only for this - it would have been made less "capital." And it is intended to shelter in it missiles, TPK not having, that is, a complex of ballistic missiles. Probably also 4 pieces. At the same time, after the termination of the INF Treaty, nothing prevents the realization of the potential inherent in the complex, as in its “old” BR (such as realizing not only a quasi-ballistic, but also a ballistic trajectory, which allows a significant increase in the range, albeit to the detriment of invulnerability, but it can be improved ways), and the fact that the new launcher allows you to create a larger and longer-range BR under it. And the potential in the complex itself is in any case, the Americans were right there, accusing Russia of cunning or not, but it is. And the Defense Ministry’s 9М729 presentation, in general, did not prove to the Americans anything, including because no one was going to show the rocket itself, and all the more, its internal structure. But the Americans did not want to listen to anything, because it was all the more unnecessary. In general, the potential for increasing the range of both the park of the "old" launchers of the complex, and the "new" - is large. Even if the existing complex CDs do not violate the Treaty, nothing prevents them from placing their sea "sisters" on these launchers, which have a real range of up to 2600-3500 (according to various sources for non-nuclear and nuclear versions) kilometers. And it can be done very quickly.

Also, nothing will prevent the resumption of the program "Rubezh" suspended some time ago. Reorienting to the tasks of the BRSD this missile, declared and tested as an ICBM. But it did not show its maximum intercontinental range, confining itself to testing by launching the Kura to a range of the order of 6-6,5 thousand km, enough to qualify as an ICBM, but not enough for real intercontinental use. That, given the different name of the program "Rubezh-Avangard", probably did not need this system - there is a version that the system was developed for a similar planning winged combat unit, with which its range became sufficient to deliver free terawatts to the USA. But with a heavier warhead, equipped with a powerful set of means to overcome the missile defense system and, say, 4-6 combat non-maneuvering units, it may well be "declassified" to the class of BRSD. And all this can be done for a maximum of several years - that is, if not too rush.

The Americans have a completely different situation. Despite the existing target missiles, which can be formally attributed to the BRSD, they will not create war missiles based on them, they simply are not suitable for serious weapons of a serious nuclear power. So, the BRDS will have to be created almost from scratch, perhaps using the best practices of Israel, and you will have to remember something old. According to estimates, the creation of such systems with ranges up to 2200 km can take at least 7-8 years, or even more. And now, due to the lack of nuclear warheads for new missiles, the only thing the Americans can do so far is to deploy them first on stationary (those same land-mounted launchers of vertical naval launchers Mk.41 used in the US European missile defense program), and then on mobile launchers, non-nuclear marine missiles of the Tomahawk type. Which will not bring any real effect, because these CDs are more than enough on navy, where they have greater flexibility of application, and maneuverability, and incomparable survival than lonely standing insecure launch modules on land. Moreover, non-nuclear missiles, and their use against Russian air defense, in general, is unpromising, especially in those small quantities that can still be placed on land. And against the greatly improved, including through the efforts of Russia, Chinese air defense, in general, is also not very promising.

Despite the demonstrated condemnation of Russia and the support of the "peacemaking efforts" of the United States in the field of INF and NATO allies, no one is eager to host even non-nuclear items. Even such frostbitten russophobes, ready for almost everything, like the Poles, and in general, are not torn. It was reported that Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputovich allegedly told Spiegel in an interview about the desire to deploy nuclear missiles in Europe, but this was immediately disavowed by the Polish Foreign Ministry. Quote tass:
"In a conversation with a German weekly journalist on the subject of the Treaty on the Elimination of Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range Missiles (DIS), the head of Polish diplomacy noted that Europe is currently based on nuclear deterrence guaranteed by the North Atlantic Alliance. American forces, including nuclear ones, "informs the agency.
“When asked about the possibility of deploying nuclear weapons in Poland, Minister Chaputovich clearly emphasized that“ we don’t want this at all. ”The head of Polish diplomacy did not rule out that in the future, as now, nuclear weapons will ensure peace in our part of the world. regarding the location of this type of weapon, however, are left to the discretion of NATO, "said the Polish Foreign Ministry, recalling that" nuclear weapons are currently in several European countries. "


That is, Chaputovich had in mind precisely not some ground-based nuclear missiles that were extremely hypothetical in the next decade, but he was referring to the B-61 bombs stored in Europe. So far, nothing more will ever be able to be placed with all the desire — there are no missiles, much less warheads for them. And the recently launched "production", as it is portrayed in our often not very knowledgeable media, the low-power warhead W-76-2 (which is not production, but only the barbaric vivisection of the warhead W-76-1) is hardly likely to help - it is not intended for cruise missiles, and not for the BRSD, but it is intended for the Trident 2 D5 SLBMs.

It is possible that Russia, too, will not actively intimidate the Europeans with new medium-range missiles for now, but will continue to develop this topic on a sly, but, most likely, it will be a little different - the size of the grouping of such missiles will not yet inflate above the required minimum, but the potential for solving continental tasks without involving the triad of strategic nuclear forces will be more than sufficient. Especially considering aviation non-strategic and marine non-strategic nuclear weapons.

At the same time, however, there was information that the United States, on the other hand, is planning to deploy non-nuclear Tomahawks on Guam. Like, to create a threat to China. Honestly, I don’t even want to believe in such nonsense. Either the American sources who disseminated such information came up with it, or in high circles in Washington it became quite bad with adequacy. Guam is too far from China, so that even the pre-existing nuclear "Tomahawks" from there can fly to China. To the Chinese coast from there, on the shortest path, 3000 km, and the range of the nuclear variant was 2500km. But you need not only to fly to the coast. A non-nuclear "Tomahawks" significantly inferior in range. And why keep the KR there, if the ships of the US Pacific Fleet are already full of them? And they are quite capable of approaching a thousand or one and a half to the coast of China. Another question, if we are talking about Okinawa. From it to the Chinese coast - just 650 km, to the DPRK - 1300 km, to our Primorye - 1800 km. Or, say, about some other base in the territory of “independent” Japan, all of which is “independent” only for the expression of protests of Russia regarding activities in our Kuril Islands and for asking for these same islands, while making statements excluding the transfer of even the last stone from the ridge Habomai (for example, about the non-deployment of US bases). Of course, the non-nuclear-oriented KRs are not a particularly serious threat, especially against the background of the presence of the US Navy with them, but in this case it will have to take into account in its plans, first of all, the Chinese comrades. And bring something more ballistic on the old Japanese "friends." Safer to the Japanese from this, of course, will not, but it is unlikely they have the courage to blame their American patrons.

And in general, a world without the INF Treaty, despite a number of advantages that Russia will receive, will not become safer anyway.
38 comments
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  1. +3
    2 February 2019 07: 40
    The USA has driven themselves into a corner and handed over their trump cards to the hands of Russia!
    1. +1
      2 February 2019 07: 54
      Quote: andrewkor
      The USA has driven themselves into a corner and handed over their trump cards to the hands of Russia!

      How many times have they repeated to the world ...
      With wolves, do not do world otherwise
      How to skin them off
    2. +2
      2 February 2019 07: 56
      Quote: andrewkor
      The USA has driven themselves into a corner and handed over their trump cards to the hands of Russia!

      Well, as far as I understand Trump, he doesn't think so. This is his favorite practice, to exacerbate the situation as much as possible, and then dictate conditions for "peace."
      And they somehow discount the fact that our designers can very quickly create a medium-range missile, simply "lightening" the Yars by one stage ...
      1. +1
        2 February 2019 14: 06
        Yes, the intimidation didn’t work, and Russia doesn’t need to make daggers wink in an instant; it’s now easier to install
        1. -1
          2 February 2019 19: 58
          Quote: Hippo 322
          Yes, the intimidation didn’t work, and Russia doesn’t need to make daggers wink in an instant; it’s now easier to install

          So there was a calculation. Take a Pont. Impose a fairy tale about flying time. Press and get concessions. And what do the RSD give in Europe? We just destroy the USA 5 times, and they take us 10 times, taking into account their medium-range missiles in Europe. And if the result is the same, because neither we, nor they will be able to fend off strategic nuclear forces, what difference is there between medium-range missiles in Europe or not? 5 or 10 times we destroy each other is not essential. The United States is trying to take us in fright as an experienced sharpie. And because they did it in the late 80s, they want to again. They don’t want to listen to the United States and make concessions to them. They want to sell our ears from a dead donkey, because the placement of ground tomahawks will not change ANYTHING, because. and now, from our northern seas, their submarines can launch the same tomahawks or JAASM-ER from their aircraft in Europe. What's the difference? Yes, nothing.
          1. +2
            2 February 2019 23: 54
            Quote: maximum 8
            what difference is there medium-range missiles in Europe or they are not. 5 or 10 once we destroy each other is not essential.

            Well, if it is not clear then I will try to explain what is planned by Amer on the concept of MSU.
            1. High-altitude nuclear power plants disable communication and the SPRN system for a few minutes (hours).
            2. Submarines and rocket EMs deliver massive strikes against missile / air defense systems and radar warnings of an aerospace attack. Virginia destroys all tracked rpksny ... and other submarines.
            3. SSBNs from their RDB in the North and Norwegian Seas (option) deliver a force attack on the SNF and military authorities of the Russian Federation.
            4. BRSD from missile bases in Europe, as well as from positional areas in the RP and Romania are discharged by priority targets in the European part of the Russian Federation and immediately reloaded with GBI interceptors to repel the impact of our ICBMs.
            5. Orly Beki deployed in the sea districts of missile defense on the strike routes of retaliation of our ICBMs, but before they also defuse their KDB ....
            6. Tactical aircraft (carriers of nuclear weapons) with suspended В61-12 start according to plans of delivering top-priority strikes against targets in the near rear of our troops.
            But all that after that will be able to start in retaliation, the Yankees are planning to intercept their missile defense, including with the participation of its space echelon ...
            That's just what to do with Poseidon, they still do not know ... as well as with the Vanguards. And the Sarmatians generally lead them to despondency ...
            And so they all have "ho-ro-sho" !!! bully
            1. 0
              3 February 2019 23: 55
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              4. BRSD from missile bases in Europe, as well as from positional areas in the RP and Romania are discharged by priority targets in the European part of the Russian Federation and immediately reloaded with GBI interceptors to repel the impact of our ICBMs.

              Dear Alexander, GBI missiles will not fit into the dimensions of standard missile defense system cells in Poland and Romania in terms of dimensions. Absolutely.
            2. 0
              4 February 2019 15: 55
              Quote: BoA KAA
              Quote: maximum 8
              what difference is there medium-range missiles in Europe or they are not. 5 or 10 once we destroy each other is not essential.

              Well, if it is not clear then I will try to explain what is planned by Amer on the concept of MSU.
              1. High-altitude nuclear power plants disable communication and the SPRN system for a few minutes (hours).
              2. Submarines and rocket EMs deliver massive strikes against missile / air defense systems and radar warnings of an aerospace attack. Virginia destroys all tracked rpksny ... and other submarines.
              3. SSBNs from their RDB in the North and Norwegian Seas (option) deliver a force attack on the SNF and military authorities of the Russian Federation.
              4. BRSD from missile bases in Europe, as well as from positional areas in the RP and Romania are discharged by priority targets in the European part of the Russian Federation and immediately reloaded with GBI interceptors to repel the impact of our ICBMs.
              5. Orly Beki deployed in the sea districts of missile defense on the strike routes of retaliation of our ICBMs, but before they also defuse their KDB ....
              6. Tactical aircraft (carriers of nuclear weapons) with suspended В61-12 start according to plans of delivering top-priority strikes against targets in the near rear of our troops.
              But all that after that will be able to start in retaliation, the Yankees are planning to intercept their missile defense, including with the participation of its space echelon ...
              That's just what to do with Poseidon, they still do not know ... as well as with the Vanguards. And the Sarmatians generally lead them to despondency ...
              And so they all have "ho-ro-sho" !!! bully

              It can be seen that they all have a very "HO-RO-SHO" !!! Only all this looks more like another deception, SOI 2.0. You have listed so many factors and everything must coincide. Moreover, the Americans never do anything smoothly. .Not a real plan. Real plan to repeat Reagan, but this is nonsense.
      2. 0
        2 February 2019 20: 45
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: andrewkor
        The USA has driven themselves into a corner and handed over their trump cards to the hands of Russia!

        Well, as far as I understand Trump, he doesn't think so. This is his favorite practice, to exacerbate the situation as much as possible, and then dictate conditions for "peace."
        And they somehow discount the fact that our designers can very quickly create a medium-range missile, simply "lightening" the Yars by one stage ...

        Already "facilitated". The so-called "MBR" RS-26. Completed tests last year. Production is ready, but not officially performed.
        1. +1
          3 February 2019 00: 00
          Quote: maximum 8
          Production is ready, but not officially produced.

          But the components are riveted in three shifts ... It remains the case for the assembly of the final product ... Yes
    3. 0
      3 February 2019 02: 50
      YES NO, these wolves try to grab trump cards for themselves !!! wink
  2. +2
    2 February 2019 08: 18
    and then on mobile launchers, conventional naval cruise missiles of the Tomahawk type. Which will not bring any real effect, because there are more than enough of these RCs in the fleet,


    the Americans have plenty of Tomahawk-class missiles in the US Navy, but the problem is for the fleet. And this problem is that Russia is not an island where all the borders of the sea and the American fleet can be stretched in an even chain along the entire coast.
    Therefore, in order to surround Russia around the perimeter, it is necessary to place those same naval launchers of axes along the huge Russian land border as close as possible in countries bordering Russia by land, turning them into one unsinkable American aircraft carrier.
    By the way, so far Russia has only one weapon capable of countering these "no real effect" topars wiping out more than one state from the map of the world and this is Iskander, which the Americans do not like so much.

    PS The author of the article is a really hidden liberal who quietly smuggles through the idea that Russia has violated something and the stars-striped "nothing is not your fault." They simply use INF missiles as targets for testing their ABM bases, which, according to the INF Treaty, should have long been removed from service and destroyed, and not plowed through the airspace.
    1. +3
      2 February 2019 09: 28
      Fleet - stands in the bases. Duty 2-3 Burke at the borders - do not count. If suddenly the entire fleet is swept from the bases, Elk and Ohio disappear. This is clearly not casual. And the reaction time is days here +. wink

      If B-52 / B1 stand at home bases, well, 1-2 flies closer to which Poland. Well, the F-15 squadron will fly to England / Norway. This is still the norm. But if mass transfers of aircraft begin, this is clearly not casual and the reaction time here is from tens of hours to days. wink

      There is a Base or a mobile position in which Baltic / Poland / Georgia / Ukraine. Worth a year. Quietly. Then, once the team arrived, they entered the codes, start keys = 5 minutes, and the rockets were already in flight. The reaction time is minutes, and then Peter near the Mushrooms, Voronezh and Kursk (large air base ZVO) as well. Well, etc.

      We are talking about Axes. That is, that is. There will be no problem returning the 80's to the USA in the Iskander-K series. They learned to build bases on the basis of naval MK-41 - now you can throw Aegis block for billions - and just poke cheap MK-41 + bunker control for at least 100500 missiles.

      The next stage of the BRDS. Technically, creating a BJB for the United States is no big deal. Moreover, they started to drown the agreement in 2012, they took a serious course towards breaking up in 2014, found a reason and introduced the plan of the allies in 2017. That is, this is a planned work. And under it - most likely they are developing a ballistic missile defense system and their developments are already under pressure = that is, it will be impossible either to freeze work or hide it, and then the USA will be a violator of the agreement.

      Having a BRDS even by the type of Pershing2 (again, 80's technology). Having a starting line not in Germany, but in the Vassals, who agree to die first, the main thing is that their countries are a springboard for an attack on Moscow = in the form of the Baltic states, Ukraine, Poland. There is a fundamentally different alignment. From what position near Kharkov - favorable scenarios for a decapitation strike arise (strategies of the 70's, to catch the political and military leadership - and to flip other responsible ones). Especially in the current market relations and time of arrival in minutes to the Kremlin. Well, blows right up to the Urals with a flight time of less than 10 minutes. Retaliatory strikes - they will burn down (already empty) positions and missile bases and vassals, who generally agree to die = the main thing is that Moscow burns.
      1. +4
        2 February 2019 10: 11
        Why retaliatory strikes - "on empty positions?"
        The retaliatory blow will go one hundred pounds where necessary - overseas.
        1. 0
          2 February 2019 10: 20
          So medium range does not reach. Exchange of 1 contractual missiles (START-3 strictly limits deployed carriers) to 1 unlimited from the Baltic states / Poland / Ukraine = this is not bad.

          By the way, as expected - Poland wants missiles at home:
          Warsaw wants the US to deploy its nuclear missiles in Europe, Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Chaputovic said. Earlier, US President Donald Trump announced the suspension of Washington's participation in the INF Treaty and announced "military measures" against Russia. Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin discussed with permanent members of the Security Council the situation with strategic stability and international security in the context of the US withdrawing from the INF Treaty.

          Warsaw favored deploying US nuclear weapons in Europe - This was stated by Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Chaputovic.

          “In our European interests that American troops and nuclear missiles be deployed on the continent", - said the head of the Polish Foreign Ministry in an interview with Spiegel.

          He did not rule out that NATO nuclear missiles may also end up in Poland one day.
          1. 0
            2 February 2019 10: 22
            What does the "medium range" have to do with it, if the war?
            1. +1
              2 February 2019 10: 26
              At your opponent, which Peacemaker from the USA will fly with you with a flight in 30 + minutes and another bonus a couple of infantry fighting vehicles from vassal countries with a flight in ~ 5 minutes.

              Only Poplar / Yars will fly from you with a flight in 30 + minutes.

              Scenarios of the type Borey pops up in New York and shoots the entire BC - we will not consider (and Ohio can do that too).

              In case of a sudden first strike - a party having the ability to strike with a flight time of 5 minutes - has several advantages and options. For example, try to catch the country's leadership / withdraw as many nuclear strike weapons as possible. At the same time - strategic nuclear forces - which are equal for the USA and the Russian Federation under the START3 agreement (which is in force) = behind the scenes. That is, these are additional opportunities (and quite tempting ones) on one side, in the absence of similar features on the other.
              1. +3
                2 February 2019 10: 55
                Donavi, well, that's just your opinion. Like the version of possible events.
                I will not discuss options for various operational deployments and the flight time of different types and means of delivery.
                In the end, it just seems like it's too early for you to bury us.
              2. 0
                2 February 2019 20: 27
                Quote: donavi49
                At your opponent, which Peacemaker from the USA will fly with you with a flight in 30 + minutes and another bonus a couple of infantry fighting vehicles from vassal countries with a flight in ~ 5 minutes.

                Only Poplar / Yars will fly from you with a flight in 30 + minutes.

                Scenarios of the type Borey pops up in New York and shoots the entire BC - we will not consider (and Ohio can do that too).

                In case of a sudden first strike - a party having the ability to strike with a flight time of 5 minutes - has several advantages and options. For example, try to catch the country's leadership / withdraw as many nuclear strike weapons as possible. At the same time - strategic nuclear forces - which are equal for the USA and the Russian Federation under the START3 agreement (which is in force) = behind the scenes. That is, these are additional opportunities (and quite tempting ones) on one side, in the absence of similar features on the other.

                What difference does it make and how much flies if the outcome is the same for both us and us. Do you think that they will be fine-tuning their missile defense system by 2030. No one in the world has a missile defense system capable of withstanding a strategic massive nuclear strike and will not appear soon, but there is a factor of simultaneous mutual destruction, on which the world has been holding together for just over 70 years between us. This fundamental factor of INF will not be affected, which means that it is not so important whether they are or not. There is an option that they want to force us to do INF, and not ICBMs dangerous to them. They definitely won’t fight with us laniruyut.No plan we try to take the bluff suddenly prokatit.Halyavu Americans lyubyat.Popytka not torture.
          2. 0
            2 February 2019 13: 24
            Quote: donavi49
            Exchange of 1 contractual missile (START-3 severely limits deployed carriers) to 1 unlimited from the Baltic States / Poland / Ukraine = this is not bad

            START-3 will cease to exist much earlier than the United States will have infantry-fighting ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads in Europe. In addition, in our General Staff, they’re also doing something wrong, in 7-10 years they will find a way to deploy similar weapons with the same flight time to the continental United States (bases in Nicaragua / Venezuela, bottom launchers, hypersonic missiles, etc. )
          3. +2
            2 February 2019 14: 22
            Sorry, but Poland borders on Germany and it is not enough to think that the Germans' opinion in Europe is in last place. They can say anything, but the Germans do not just build Potok-2, nobody is burning with the desire to be a target in Europe hi
            1. +2
              3 February 2019 00: 39
              Quote: prapor55
              no one is eager to be targeted in Europe

              This is true. But the Yankees, like a big bully who climbed into the European sandbox, pushes everyone away and forces the Europeans to play with their toys ... according to his rules. Although no one likes it, everyone is afraid of this bully. Our task, together with the Europeans, is to drive this bully out of our common European sandbox. The Frenchman, however, tried to create a NATO army without this bully, so now he does not know how to remove the "yellow vests" from the lumpen ... Deutschers kick, but the "party gold" still remains in Fort Knox ... And without a gold reserve you don't jump a lot! Only the Panovs and Tribals fell under this bully and try to have fun in the unnatural octopus position ...
              The world is not easy ... but still it is better than it was in 90 ...
              So, "hope dies last"!
              1. 0
                3 February 2019 06: 58
                Last night I watched the guarantor also withdraw from the contract, and if I understood correctly by his face, the guarantor heard the third call personally for himself. All the same, he will not be able to repeat the fate of Gorbi. hi
          4. 0
            2 February 2019 20: 17
            Quote: donavi49
            So medium range does not reach. Exchange of 1 contractual missiles (START-3 strictly limits deployed carriers) to 1 unlimited from the Baltic states / Poland / Ukraine = this is not bad.

            By the way, as expected - Poland wants missiles at home:
            Warsaw wants the US to deploy its nuclear missiles in Europe, Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Chaputovic said. Earlier, US President Donald Trump announced the suspension of Washington's participation in the INF Treaty and announced "military measures" against Russia. Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin discussed with permanent members of the Security Council the situation with strategic stability and international security in the context of the US withdrawing from the INF Treaty.

            Warsaw favored deploying US nuclear weapons in Europe - This was stated by Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Chaputovic.

            “In our European interests that American troops and nuclear missiles be deployed on the continent", - said the head of the Polish Foreign Ministry in an interview with Spiegel.

            He did not rule out that NATO nuclear missiles may also end up in Poland one day.

            Yes, let them host it. It will not cancel the mutual strategic destruction factor. And it doesn’t matter how many times we destroy each other, if anything. The main thing is that this factor is there. But RSD is a heap, and even an attempt to embroil Russia and Europe. The USA is not crazy. they are cheaters and puppeteers. If there is even the slightest danger in their territory, then they won’t go on an adventure, but pretend that they can, but really don’t. It’s for calculation.
      2. +2
        2 February 2019 20: 10
        Quote: donavi49
        Fleet - stands in the bases. Duty 2-3 Burke at the borders - do not count. If suddenly the entire fleet is swept from the bases, Elk and Ohio disappear. This is clearly not casual. And the reaction time is days here +. wink

        If B-52 / B1 stand at home bases, well, 1-2 flies closer to which Poland. Well, the F-15 squadron will fly to England / Norway. This is still the norm. But if mass transfers of aircraft begin, this is clearly not casual and the reaction time here is from tens of hours to days. wink

        There is a Base or a mobile position in which Baltic / Poland / Georgia / Ukraine. Worth a year. Quietly. Then, once the team arrived, they entered the codes, start keys = 5 minutes, and the rockets were already in flight. The reaction time is minutes, and then Peter near the Mushrooms, Voronezh and Kursk (large air base ZVO) as well. Well, etc.

        We are talking about Axes. That is, that is. There will be no problem returning the 80's to the USA in the Iskander-K series. They learned to build bases on the basis of naval MK-41 - now you can throw Aegis block for billions - and just poke cheap MK-41 + bunker control for at least 100500 missiles.

        The next stage of the BRDS. Technically, creating a BJB for the United States is no big deal. Moreover, they started to drown the agreement in 2012, they took a serious course towards breaking up in 2014, found a reason and introduced the plan of the allies in 2017. That is, this is a planned work. And under it - most likely they are developing a ballistic missile defense system and their developments are already under pressure = that is, it will be impossible either to freeze work or hide it, and then the USA will be a violator of the agreement.

        Having a BRDS even by the type of Pershing2 (again, 80's technology). Having a starting line not in Germany, but in the Vassals, who agree to die first, the main thing is that their countries are a springboard for an attack on Moscow = in the form of the Baltic states, Ukraine, Poland. There is a fundamentally different alignment. From what position near Kharkov - favorable scenarios for a decapitation strike arise (strategies of the 70's, to catch the political and military leadership - and to flip other responsible ones). Especially in the current market relations and time of arrival in minutes to the Kremlin. Well, blows right up to the Urals with a flight time of less than 10 minutes. Retaliatory strikes - they will burn down (already empty) positions and missile bases and vassals, who generally agree to die = the main thing is that Moscow burns.

        You lose sight of the fact that the retaliatory strikes of the Strategic Missile Forces and the Russian Navy will not be burned by vassals, but by the United States, and if so, the United States will not rock the boat as it did not rock the North Korea with its pair of ICBMs on stationary launchers, while having a colossal advantage over North Korea .Do not forget Poseidon. So in any case there will be a military draw. And where our RSDs arrive is not so important anymore. And we will destroy them 5 times, and they 10 of us (because of the RSD in Europe) is also not important. Trump plays his usual game-take on Pont. Ignore and do not give in, with time themselves roll away. Trump l ... h. All his actions are a blown bubble, which always turns zilch.
  3. +4
    2 February 2019 08: 25
    Thinking that the brains of Europeans, especially Poles, would quickly line up, Russia needs to make a statement: "In the event of aggression, or providing a springboard for aggression, there will be no liberation war!" In general, in such cases, you need to talk harder, because there is nothing to lose.
  4. +1
    2 February 2019 08: 50
    PS The author of the article is a really hidden liberal who quietly smuggles through the idea that Russia has violated something and the stars-striped "nothing is not your fault." They simply use INF missiles as targets for testing their ABM bases, which, according to the INF Treaty, should have long been removed from service and destroyed, and not plowed through the airspace.
    Well, straight tochnik. Also, such a feeling arose. From afar sunset.
  5. 0
    2 February 2019 08: 53
    Quote: andrewkor
    The USA has driven themselves into a corner and handed over their trump cards to the hands of Russia!

    This treaty was FAVORABLE to Russia. Missiles prohibited by the treaty are not dangerous for the United States, while the Americans from their bases, using such weapons, shot through the vast territories of Russia. The end of the treaty is the defeat of Russian diplomacy. Again there will be a medium-range arms race, weapons are useless against USA, only to hit the bases and allies. And with the money we have tight.
    1. +2
      2 February 2019 09: 44
      Yes, it is profitable, but until such countries as Britain, France, Israel, China, Pakistan, India did not acquire weapons of this class.
      And at the moment, the treaty is holding us back more than Americans.
      1. 0
        2 February 2019 09: 48
        How?
        India - its Kyrgyz Republic and the Republican Democratic Forces in Pakistan and China.
        Pakistan - its Kyrgyz Republic and the Republican Liberation and Democratic Party of India.
        Britain and France - has 1,5 missiles, and then they are universal (air / ship).
        Israel - missed with ground missiles. Before Khmimim and Assad, he doesn’t need BRDS / KR.
        South Korea - its Kyrgyz Republic in the Kims, plus they are again universal, they have the same Kyrgyz Republic on the same destroyers as King Sijon.
        China - it seems to be the only reliable strategic ally. But yes, it has the largest declared arsenal of land-based ballistic missile and ballistic missiles in the world - now.
        1. 0
          2 February 2019 10: 06
          France and Britain, NATO members, and their missiles are our headache, the same Israel can supply missiles of these types to ANY European country. And mind you, they do not violate anything, only we have nothing to answer except for the Iskander.
          But that is not all. Missile technologies are being developed and hypersonic missiles are approaching, and they will initially be in short and medium range aisles.
          1. +1
            2 February 2019 10: 16
            Violate - export separate agreement and 300km restriction. Nobody will drown that treaty - for in the first year, all Iranian teams of DF-26 and other adult missiles materialize.
        2. 0
          2 February 2019 20: 52
          Quote: donavi49
          How?
          India - its Kyrgyz Republic and the Republican Democratic Forces in Pakistan and China.
          Pakistan - its Kyrgyz Republic and the Republican Liberation and Democratic Party of India.
          Britain and France - has 1,5 missiles, and then they are universal (air / ship).
          Israel - missed with ground missiles. Before Khmimim and Assad, he doesn’t need BRDS / KR.
          South Korea - its Kyrgyz Republic in the Kims, plus they are again universal, they have the same Kyrgyz Republic on the same destroyers as King Sijon.
          China - it seems to be the only reliable strategic ally. But yes, it has the largest declared arsenal of land-based ballistic missile and ballistic missiles in the world - now.

          Can't Israel get from its ground installations? Yesterday, a hamman from the Promised Land told me that Israel has up to 20 ICBMs with a launch range of 11500-15500 km depending on the warhead, and I generally keep silent about the number of Israeli INF troops.
    2. 0
      2 February 2019 20: 38
      Quote: fa2998
      Quote: andrewkor
      The USA has driven themselves into a corner and handed over their trump cards to the hands of Russia!

      This treaty was FAVORABLE to Russia. Missiles prohibited by the treaty are not dangerous for the United States, while the Americans from their bases, using such weapons, shot through the vast territories of Russia. The end of the treaty is the defeat of Russian diplomacy. Again there will be a medium-range arms race, weapons are useless against USA, only to hit the bases and allies. And with the money we have tight.

      This agreement of Russia is NOT BENEFICIAL. It limits Russia. In the USA, all the RSDs are carried by the fleet and aircraft, Russia is a continental power and it is more convenient for it to have ground-based RSDs, according to the INF Treaty, Russia is deprived of it. We are not profitable according to the INF Treaty !!!!!! RSD (tomahawk), even though they can now be launched on us from their submarines from our northern seas and their JAASM-ER from their aircraft in Europe, and this fact will not change the placement of non-deployment of their ground tomahawks in Europe. NOTHING will change ANYTHING.
  6. +1
    2 February 2019 11: 00
    Well, what a shiver in the knees about the INF Treaty ?!
    It is necessary to separate "flies from cutlets" in working order - the Americans have some missiles, the Europeans others.
    They want to live in diapers - let them live.
    Each European capital has its own warhead, each candle factory has its own ammunition.
    American goals, I hope, are already under the gun.
    At any launch of a rocket from Europe - a nuclear response flies right there. After her, the next starts in the direction of America. And the Duma should approve such a strategy legislatively.
    If Trump and Europe like this kind of life, it's their choice. They do not want to consult and talk with us. Well then, we'll all die someday.
  7. +1
    2 February 2019 15: 17
    Is it possible now to extend the Iskander’s BR rocket, which would fly by a couple of thousand?
  8. 0
    2 February 2019 16: 39
    The impression is that our government has no eggs. What are you hooked on these contracts? Is it not clear that the United States will never abide by them, and to respond to a violation of treaties after the fact means giving the initiative to the enemy? The result is a defeat. Does anyone else not understand this? Therefore, we do not have to wait for the tan to withdraw from all the treaties, but to blame them for violation ourselves - I have no doubt that there are plenty of reasons for this - and break all treaties, motivating violations by the United States - just like the United States did with INF. Remember everything - you always need to raise the question with an edge - only then people start to think.
  9. +1
    4 February 2019 10: 42
    In the long term, the Americans, it seems to me, are pursuing a clear systematic goal - to stop the threat from our ICBMs as much as possible, for this they are continuously introducing "peace initiatives." For them, everything started very rosy with a decrease in the number of deployed carriers and warheads associated with ICBMs and our long-range aviation. But the Russians did not fall apart again, and even quietly harnessed in the bushes. Therefore, the withdrawal from the INF Treaty and even their probable missiles in Europe are simply a means of bargaining and pressure in order to further cut the next START treaty. That is, at first they will simply bluff and only then crush with missiles in Europe. So, while the Americans are bluffing and there is half a year of waiting, it makes sense to conclude an agreement with Europe bypassing Washington.