Military Review

Aviation of the Red Army in the Civil War. Some features of combat use

52
The February coup of 1917 marked the beginning of the destruction of the already weak Russian aircraft industry. Foreign orders were also not implemented. Eventually, aviation by the beginning of the Civil War was in the most deplorable state.


But Soviet aviation, having entered the battle initially without centralized leadership, without organized supply, without an orderly complex of fleets, warehouses and airfields, without a sufficient cadre of experienced and reliable pilots, nevertheless, grew and strengthened. The selection of aircraft was quite random - which made it difficult for pilot training. Owing to the blockade, Soviet Russia had to send airplanes to the front that did not meet the requirements of the time. The old “Newpors” and “Farmans” with worn out engines could not meet modern (at that time) requirements.



The air detachments had major organizational defects, there were no experienced bosses - which, of course, affected the combat capability of the aviation units.

Not better deal with the aircraft and the enemy. The organization of white aviation was also carried out in the course of the armed struggle and was also hasty and not always organized.

Entente powers used only a tiny part of their mighty aviation. Deliveries were made for the needs of the White armies. So, by the middle of 1919, the city of VYuR receives the British de Hivilends. In the Arkhangelsk operation, the Anglo-Americans used the hydroaviation - carrying out deep intelligence in the red rear. With the appearance of the White Guard army on the Northern front, the British formed Russian aviation squads in the French Sopwicz doubles, which the Reds did not have time to take out of the port of Bakarinas.

Accordingly, in the Civil War, the scale of aviation activity was, compared with the air war in the First World War, insignificant. The specifics of the armed confrontation also gave a special character to the actions of aviation. Such activities as shooting corrections, aerial photography, infantry aircraft service, lost their previous meaning. Intelligence has become extremely complicated due to the inconstancy of the fronts, the mixing of the territories of the adversaries, the chaos in the organization of army structures. The importance of bombing, assault strikes, campaigning activities, the organization of communication between groups of troops has grown.

The value of fighter aircraft has decreased.



With extreme instability of the fronts in the Civil War and limited resources, squadrons could move quickly along navigable rivers or rail lines - which allowed them to quickly move to the right direction.

But, of course, mainly the aviation service in the Civil War retained a general continuity with the activities of aviation in the world war. There was a struggle for air supremacy, support for ground forces, reconnaissance, a communication service, and fulfillment of special assignments.

Of particular importance was the struggle for supremacy in the air. A party with qualitative and quantitative superiority could have hampered the penetration of the enemy deep into the positions of its ground forces. An example is the actions of German and red aviation units in Lithuania and Latvia. In this region, red aviation, yielding to the opponent in strength and speed, could not penetrate the line of its front.

But the struggle for air supremacy in the Civil War was episodic, giving first place to other forms of aviation. The absence of serious air defense and the weakness (on some fronts) of enemy aircraft made the work of aircraft possible at low altitudes. It became less dangerous to lower in the rear of the enemy to a low altitude - which increased the effectiveness of assault attacks and bombing of columns, transports, batteries. Combination of intelligence with active percussion becomes the rule in the Civil War.

The impossibility of servicing a huge front with the help of a small number of aircraft led to the triumph of the principle of concentration of forces in the crucial point: the necessary transfer of aviation forces and equipment was carried out, and aviation was effective only where it was assembled into shock fists - at the cost of exposing less important sectors.



One of the first places in the arsenal of aviation actions in the Civil War was occupied by actions against ground targets. They consisted in shooting machine guns and bombing - both live and non-live targets. The objects were ferries, armored trains, railway junctions, buildings and structures, bridges, cavalry and infantry of the enemy.

So, when, during the battles at Manych in 1919, General Patirovsky’s cavalry corps and General Pokrovsky’s corps next to the right flank stopped within sight of Dumenko’s red cavalry threatening their right flank, the cavalry commander, General Wrangel, orders the corps - with the support aviation to attack Dumenko. 9 airplanes flew out to complete the task - but most of them were not suitable for bombing. White cavalry stretched into marching columns, moving north, while the red remained in place at the farm Korolkovo in reserve order. Despite the fact that some of the planes did not correspond to the task, the effect of the bombing was enormous. The Reds suffered heavy losses in people and horses - and scattered across the field in complete disarray. As a result, Dumenko was unable to put his main forces in order in a timely manner and, without putting them into battle, withdrew, giving the opportunity for General Pokrovsky’s cavalry corps to secure the right flank of General Shatilov’s troops.

When the 25 of May the fortified front of the Reds under Perekop was broken through by white pieces, the actions of aviation were also of key importance. Having broken the resistance of the red artillery, she transfers her strike to recalcitrant infantry. The stunning actions of huge bombs, the shelling of machine guns from a height of 40 - 100 meters completely demoralized the infantry, which, throwing in panic weapon, fled. The White Command, in its order, declared that the success of the operation to seize Northern Tavria was caused solely by the actions of aviation.

The activity of the red aviation in the Borisov region in May of 1920 was expressed in the destruction of the fortified positions of the enemy, batteries, railway junctions and demoralization of the garrison. These tasks were carried out despite the presence of strong Polish aviation. During the period of 1 - 27 in May, more than 300 sorties were flown. As a result, there were fires, explosions and panic in the camp of the enemy.

May 10 Polish pilots with the help of the Americans in response to the bombing of the Reds, decided to destroy the red airfield. But the enemy’s planes were spotted on time - and the red pilots quickly took to the air, meeting the enemy half a kilometer from the airfield. As a result, the Poles threw their bombs into the forest and had to quickly retreat, suffering losses.

When 15 of June 1920 of the White Command was found in the area of ​​V. Tokmak, the horse group of the Goons, whites did not have sufficient forces in this area - and therefore the air reserve of 17 of June was thrown into battle. Three times bombing and machine gun fire from a small height inflicted heavy losses on the horse group and demoralized it. On this day, she lost to 300 horses.

On June 19, Zhlobo again made an attempt to break through to Melitopol. The division of whites, opposing the pressure of the Reds, barely restrained the enemy. At that time, aviation came to her aid — and the concentrated bomb attacks and machine gun fire from 50 altitudes stunned the red cavalry, which fled in panic. Thus, aviation played a decisive role in defeating the Redneck Corps - it detected its enemy in time, deprived of its activity with the help of bombing and allowed the white command to carry out a quick redeployment and regrouping of troops.

The successful actions of the white aviation and the defeat of the Redneck corps forced the command and the Reds and the Whites to create a strong aviation group of all the aircraft in existence. Massaging of aircraft on the Southern Front occurred for the first time.

Red, thanks to the energy of flight personnel, by the beginning of August managed to prepare a strong air group. The work of the group was expressed in repelling the attacks of the corps of General Kutepov and assisting units of the Red Army in the Kakhovka direction — against parts of the generals Slashchev, Barbovich and Ulagay. White attacked by large equestrian masses in 3 - 4 thousand horses, which was an excellent target for hundreds of bombs dropped daily. Red pilots, falling to a minimum height, shot the enemy with machine guns, threw metal arrows. The result of the action of the red aviation, which struck blow after blow, forced the whites to quickly retreat.

In mid-August 1920, the aviation group was deployed on the Kakhov direction and managed to meet the enemy with bombs before he deployed his main forces. In this area, the combat work of the group was more difficult and because the enemy began to use means of disguise.

During the reflection of the September landing of Wrangel’s troops on the southeastern coast of the Azov Sea, 17 flights were carried out for a total of 32 hours, a ton of bombs dropped, 20000 cartridges fired and scattered to 40 kg of literature.

Also in September 1920 on the Western Front, aviation had the crucial task of evacuating the Baranavichy-Minsk railway and hindering the advance of enemy strike units. In the 3-day period, Air Fleet Headquarters prepared a project for the formation of a strike aviation group. On September 28, the enemy broke through the front of the 8 division and went to the rear of the red units, occupying the Baranavichy station. On October 2, the red squadron flew out in full force and bombed the Baranavichy station. The result of this raid was the destruction of Baranavichy station and the headquarters of the 14 Polish division. The chief of the division, General Konarzhevsky, and several staff members were killed, the rest were injured.

At the same time, another group from a height of 200 - 400 meters attacked the infantry, moving on carts on the highway to the village. Milovidy upset her ranks - causing panic. The offensive of the enemy was delayed.

3 - 4 of October was revealed by red aviation that the 8 Division covering the approaches to Minsk was overtaken by the enemy and, being knocked out of positions, departed south of the Baranovichi-Minsk railway in disarray and the highway to Minsk was open. Polish cavalry moved freely to Minsk, and by the evening of October 4 she was in the city. Having established the exact location of the Polish cavalry, the squadron flew out - in full force. In the area south of the Kaidanov station, an aviation encounter occurred with the Polish cavalry. Having dropped to 100 - 300 meters (and below), the pilots bombed and fired at the enemy machine guns. The cavalry scattered, the horses and people panicked mixed, and some fled through the forests. The pilots did not lag behind the cavalry until the enemy completely dispersed. As a result of this brilliant air attack from the cavalry regiment, nothing remained for 15 minutes. The attack of the squadron for several hours slowed down the movement of the enemy, and made it possible for the units of the 27 division that approached to complete the breakthrough and destroy the remnants of the presumptuous enemy.

T. o. aviation, receiving a broad initiative, acted as efficiently as possible. Applying individual attacks at the beginning of the Civil War (with the aim of bombing), aviation then proceeds to a system of group raids, carrying out in parallel the tasks of breaking through the enemy front, assisting other branches of troops during rounds, repelling attacks and pursuit.

Aviation intelligence in the Civil War was less significant compared with the First World War. Penetration into the enemy’s location, regular spy information, a smaller number of troops, the absence of a solid front — all these characteristic features of the Civil War contributed to obtaining information without the participation of aviation. But aerial reconnaissance in the study of deep rears, nodes and communications played a huge role. Aviation reconnaissance acquires particular importance in the 2 period of the Civil War - when it takes on a regular character. Establishing the composition of the enemy's reserves and the correction of artillery fire becomes an ordinary reconnaissance aviation operation.

For example, on the Western Front in May 1920, intelligence reconnaissance activities gave the command valuable information. One squadron worked on the Borisov direction - having a fortress in front of it and a fortified bridgehead, reminiscent of the situation of a world war with its trenches, wire barriers in several rows disguised with batteries. The second squadron in the Igumen direction had a moving front in front of it, where the enemy was hiding in the forests and villages, maneuvering reserves. And finally, the third squadron operated in the direction of Gomel - Rechitsa, where the red units departed.

As a result of the aviation activity, all fortified lines of the Borisov bridgehead and trenches on the banks of the Berezina were occupied, daily trains were counted on the Borisov railway tracks, and ferries and bridges on the Berezina were monitored. Deep reconnaissance was carried out to Minsk, as well as a flight was made from the city of Glorious to Polotsk - a distance of about 300 km deep into enemy territory.

The operation in Turkestan with the aim of finding a gang of Dzhunayd - Khan and the detachment of General Tolstoy in May - June 1920 was also characterized by active actions of reconnaissance aircraft. A whole series of deep reconnaissance was undertaken over the Kara-Kum desert to find troops that had made their way from Khiva to Persia. This work was carried out on the instructions of the brigade headquarters - the latter assigned aviation areas and routes that required lighting. But the inability of the command to use its aircraft, the lack of orientation of the pilots and the lack of communication with the cavalry units reduced all reconnaissance actions only to moral significance - in the form of flights over sparsely populated deserts.

Aviation of the Red Army in the Civil War. Some features of combat use


On the Southern Front in August 1920 on the Kakhovsky bridgehead, the red command was amazed at the speed of the transfer of enemy forces, especially transports. And the command set the task for its aviation: to find out what is in the thousands of peasant supply that make up the enemy's convoy. Repeated reconnaissance provided the same information: a convoy was moving, and behind it a 5-long convoy — 6 km — which indicated the absurdity of the number of the moving unit. Finally, with the help of aerial reconnaissance and comparison of its results with the testimony of prisoners, it was revealed that this is a large-scale misinformation.

The air reconnaissance in the Civil War had some features related to the lack of a solid front and other circumstances. Artillery groups were sparse, guns were located, as a rule, platoons, carts and reserves in most cases were absent. Often these factors explained that the air reconnaissance in the Civil War gave weak results.

In the First World War, aviation as a means of communication, especially on the Russian front, was used poorly. In the Civil War, however, aviation as a means of communication played a key role.

In the absence of proper telegraph, radiotelegraph, and other communications, air communication between groups of troops and headquarters at various levels was of continued importance. In many cases, it was the only link. The moral significance of such a connection for isolated parts was also very great. The ability to use outdated types of aircraft gave a wide opportunity to establish aviation communications.

Individual units often received tasks of a directive nature for a considerable period of time - and they had to act in fact on their own initiative. In this regard, the only means that could help the command to communicate with these units - is aviation.

Thus, in the spring of 1919, the red 9 Army, due to the onslaught of superior enemy forces and the uprising of the Greens in its rear, found itself in a quandary. The connection between the separate parts was broken, the Povorino-Balashov railway was cut. The only hope of contacting the division headquarters is in terms of aviation. The latter, separated from its base by more than 600 km, lacking fuel and lubricants, performed the assigned tasks in extremely difficult conditions. Simultaneously, the work of communication is accompanied by reconnaissance, bombing and agitation.

When, in 1919, the red Uralsk was besieged by white on all sides, aviation was also the only means of communication.

In May 1920, during the withdrawal of the Red Army from Rechitsa on the Western Front, it was necessary to establish a link between the army headquarters and the divisions, which, due to the rapid retreat, lost all contact. And again the problem was solved successfully.

Aviation was used to establish a connection between Soviet Russia and Khiva and Bukhara.

Active and white aircraft. Thus, in 1919, special flights were organized under the command of Colonel Veselovsky, which established a continuous connection between the rebels and the political and military center of the Don Cossacks, Novocherkassk, to maintain communication between the individual Cossack detachments operating at the front and in the rear of the Red Army. During the raid on the Mamontov Corps, the link between the Cossacks and the main forces of the VSYUR was maintained exclusively by aviation.

But in the Civil War, aviation communication was more episodic rather than permanent.



It was carried out by aviation and special assignments - for example, it scattered propaganda literature, carried out the delivery of agents, agitators to the rear of the enemy to perform certain tasks. Similar actions were carried out during World War II on the Eastern Front in 1916 — when enemy agents landed from airplanes in the rear of the Russian army.

The work of aviation in spreading campaign literature took place over settlements, combat positions, large reserves and troop concentrations. There are numerous cases in which, thanks to the proclamations spread by planes, entire enemy units switched over to the Reds (for example, from the Kolchak army on the Eastern Front).

Aviation in the Civil War was also an important means of dealing with all sorts of rebel and partisan detachments. So, the uprising in the cities. Syzran and Balashov were suppressed by the actions of aviation, which, attacking in groups, made a strong impression - dispersing the enemy with machine-gun fire. The same thing happened in Samara: two raids on the city produced a demoralizing effect.

Thus, during the struggle with the Makhno gangs, according to intelligence reports, under pressure from the red cavalry, the enemy retreated as part of two infantry and two cavalry regiments, 50-ti machine guns and 3-guns and went to the railway station, where the squadron was located and a small garrison by force up to two mouths. The squadron organized several hours later and, rising into the air, met the gang with a devastating bombing strike. By this, the pilots forced Makhno to go the other way — by saving the little red garrison from certain death.

During the 11 - 22 period of August 1921, in battles north of the Kirsanov railway, the main Antonov forces were dispersed by red aircraft. But by April X at the 10, Antonov had again gathered sabers before 5000 - with which he headed to the Novo-Nikolayevskoye area. On April 11, Antonov unexpectedly turns to Rasskazovo village and, having caught the garrison without warning, occupies the village. The brigade headquarters, surrounded by a gang, was shot in the environment. At the disposal of the command of the reserves was not - except for the squadron, which immediately and was called for help. The raid on the village of Rasskazovo led to the fact that the pilots with machine-gun fire and bombs saved the brigade headquarters.

In the Civil War, aviation was not only an auxiliary, but also a shock arm of the troops, making a huge moral impression on the enemy. But attempts of mass use of aircraft with decisive combat targets were rarely successful. The bulk of the combined-arms commanders could not properly manage the aviation resources, and the flights were mostly sporadic.
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  1. Albatroz
    Albatroz 19 May 2018 05: 20
    +4
    Interesting details and patterns.
    No wonder the march of aviators was born exactly in the year 20.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 19 May 2018 05: 31
      +4
      I am very glad to continue the theme of the Red Army. Also interesting about communication. Many thanks.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 19 May 2018 05: 52
        +5
        [quote] Red Army Aviation in the Civil War. Some features of combat use? CLASSIC!
        1. igordok
          igordok 19 May 2018 07: 10
          +3
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          Red Army Aviation in the Civil War. Some features of combat use?

          One of the favorite childhood films. With a lasso, bust. But filmed interesting
          1. jjj
            jjj 19 May 2018 11: 59
            0
            I always wondered: where did the hundreds of airplanes used by the tsar’s army go?
            1. avt
              avt 19 May 2018 15: 35
              +4
              Quote: jjj
              Where did the hundreds of airplanes used by the tsar’s army go?

              And to think about what then the airplanes were reluctant to do? Well, in the light of how many of these materials were enough in our atmospheric conditions. This is not counting the motors, to which there weren’t any spare parts in Civil. Well, you can like ,, Olgovich ”and also about the Constituent Assembly bully
  2. Vard
    Vard 19 May 2018 06: 20
    +2
    I was in the Prague Technical Museum .. I looked at how the planes of those times looked in kind ... Yes there were people at that time ... And they flew THIS!
    1. svp67
      svp67 19 May 2018 07: 03
      +2
      Quote: Vard
      And they flew THIS!

      They also managed to fight ...
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 May 2018 06: 35
    +1
    the already weak Russian aircraft industry. Foreign orders were also not implemented. As a result, aviation at the beginning of the Civil War was in the most deplorable state.
    и
    But Soviet aviation, having entered the battle initially without centralized leadership, without organized supply, without an orderly complex of air parks, warehouses and airfields, without a sufficient frame of experienced and reliable pilots, nevertheless, grew and strengthened
    .

    And so it’s interesting: everything in Russia was bad with collapsed aircraft, but Soviet aviation, and even in conditions of international isolation, “strengthened”. From the air, apparently. yes

    The author can be reminded that Russia was world leaderfor example in naval aviation. She possessed the strongest hydro fleet in the world. Which bombed Turkey (Istanbul, Bosphorus, Trebizond, etc.), Bulgaria. The first AUG in the world is Russian, the first blow to Pearl Harbor in history is Russian. The first naval fighter, the first Russian naval bomber.
    Air divisions were staffed hundred seaplane domestic development (Grigorovich) and production.
    How did the new government "strengthen" this aviation? And this aviation with her is just disappeared ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 19 May 2018 07: 08
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      And so it’s interesting: everything in Russia was bad with collapsed aircraft, but Soviet aviation, and even in conditions of international isolation, “strengthened”. From the air, apparently.

      No, due to the ruin of the village. Just find out where the requisitioned grain stocks were going.
      Quote: Olgovich
      How did the new government "strengthen" this aviation? And this aircraft with her, just disappeared ...

      But there was another and MUCH.
      By the way, an interesting feature, Russia still did not fall apart, and already in 1916-1917, in France, training of pilots for the future of Poland took place for Russian money. When selecting candidates, the French command, under any pretext, weeded out candidates of other nationalities, leaving the Poles. Knowing this somehow, a reasonable question arises: what were the Allies preparing for Russia?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 May 2018 08: 11
        -1
        Quote: svp67
        No, due to the ruin of the village. Just find out where the requisitioned grain stocks were going.

        This article is about time civil the war
        Quote: svp67
        But there was another and MUCH.

        Appeared, yes. Only at first it was destroyed, then it reached the previous level, and only then did much appear. That's just the time between 1917 and the "many", irrevocably lost for the country ......
    2. Albatroz
      Albatroz 19 May 2018 07: 09
      +3
      That's so interesting: everything in Russia was bad with collapsed aircraft

      Why bad?
      It became bad just in the era of revolutionary hard times.
      The author can be reminded that Russia was a world leader, for example, in the field of maritime aviation. She possessed the strongest hydroavian fleet fleet in the world. Which bombed Turkey (Istanbul, Bosphorus, Trebizond, etc.), Bulgaria. The first AUG in the world is Russian, the first blow to Pearl Harbor in history is Russian. The first naval fighter, the first Russian naval bomber.

      Naturally. And the author knows this very well, the facts are well known. You can also recall the Baltic Fleet air division, the air battle for Angern, raids on Varna (the 1st carrier carrier squadron was actually created) of the Black Sea Fleet.
      The last ones got a good inheritance.
      But the aircraft industry was indeed in its infancy. A new kind of troops, a new industry.
      And the aviation subsequently really had to be restored and strengthened. We wouldn’t strengthen it - we wouldn’t fly now ...
    3. avt
      avt 19 May 2018 08: 47
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      Air divisions were equipped with hundreds of seaplanes of domestic development (Grigorovich) and production.

      Created by the same Grigorovich on the basis of a French boat purchased for the Lebedev plant, which naturally does not detract from the merits of Grigorovich. Although Shavrov was first revered or something.
      Quote: Olgovich
      How did the new government "strengthen" this aviation?

      How could, and strengthened. , which is what the author specifically describes in the article.
      Quote: Olgovich
      And this aircraft with her, just disappeared ...

      Well this is real fool clinic.
      Quote: Olgovich
      but Soviet aviation, and even in conditions of international isolation, "strengthened."

      Well, if something else they can put into the brain, except for the Constituent Assembly, then in general the USSR was declared a “golden embargo” - technologies, equipment were sold only for BREAD and resources like wood there, etc. So
      Quote: svp67
      Just find out where the requisitioned grain stocks went.
      and fool include
      Quote: Olgovich
      The article is about the time of the Civil War.

      do not . Aviation was restored in much the same way as before the First World War - with the involvement of foreigners. Just ask who started their work at the same Richard.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 May 2018 16: 03
        -1
        Quote: avt
        Created by the same Grigorovich on the base French boat purchased for the Lebedev plant, which naturally does not detract from the merits of Grigorovich. Although Shavrov was first revered or something.

        A French aircraft is based on the Wright brothers' aircraft. lol A T 34 is based on Christie. And Kalashnikov is based on a German. What nonsense? The basic principles are the same, the designs of each are unique. M1 Grigorovich did not go into the series at all. And he created a lot of models, including fighters and bombers.
        You still recommend Murzilka yes .
        Quote: avt
        How could, and strengthened. , which the author specifically describes in the article

        So it couldn’t: the naval aviation of the 1917 model disappeared. Such things could have been known. What exactly is not mentioned in the article.
        Conscientious aviation during the years of the Civil War, in the conditions of collapse and lack of supplies from abroad, could not be better than pre-revolutionary, when there were no such problems
        Quote: avt
        Well this is already a real clinic.

        These are facts.
        Quote: avt
        Well, if something else they can put into the brain, except for the Constituent Assembly, then in general the USSR was declared a “golden embargo” - technologies, equipment were sold only for BREAD and resources like wood there, etc. So

        1. Speech in an article on time civil slaughter. What embargo, what resources of bread, etc.?
        2. The gold embargo for the USSR was announced only in the sick heads of foreign tourists: from 1931 to 1934 gold was exported from the USSR over xnumx tons. Why did Torgsin sell flour during a mortal famine for the GOLD of a dying population. Grain at that time amounted to only ... 40% of exports.
        Quote: avt
        and fool include

        Either the "clinic" is being clicked on, then the "fool" ... Why put your problems here? belay
        Quote: avt
        do not . Aviation was restored in much the same way as before the First World War - with the involvement of foreigners. Just ask who started their work at the same Richard.

        It is necessary. For after the GW there was a completely different period and circumstances than in the GV period under consideration ..
        1. avt
          avt 19 May 2018 16: 19
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          . And Kalashnikov is based on a German.

          And the constituent assembly was dispersed by the sailor Zheleznyak. fool
          Quote: Olgovich
          Conscientious aviation during the years of the Civil War, in the conditions of collapse and lack of supplies from abroad, could not be better than pre-revolutionary, when there were no such problems

          Oh really !? I do not believe ! Is enlightenment really ??? bully Naturally, practically ALL aviation under the regime of Nikolashka the “Bloody” by the efforts of her boss, a relative of the tsar, was completed at the expense of deliveries from abroad, well, the trophy motors were piece by piece. ,, Murom’s ”didn’t count, because even Nikolashka didn’t have them had neither the mind nor the will to oppose a relative, chief of aviation, a lover of single-engine airplanes and create a squadron of bomb carriers at least 100 pieces.
          Quote: Olgovich
          For after the GW there was a completely different period and circumstances than in the GV period under consideration ..

          It was this period that became the formation of aviation in Russia / USSR. And not those times BEFORE the First World War and during it, when the efforts of the ascetics of the aircraft industry were contrary, and not thanks to the will of the royal camarilla. The same Sikorsky, Gakkel, and Anatra-Anade with their attempts to create an aircraft industry in Tsarist Russia are to your sensation.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 May 2018 16: 27
            -1
            Quote: avt
            And the constituent assembly was dispersed by the sailor Zheleznyak

            And Grigorovich wrote off his boat from the French, and the T-34 from Christie. etc.
            Quote: avt
            Oh really !? I do not believe ! Is enlightenment really ??? Naturally, practically ALL aviation under the regime of Nikolashka the Bloody, by the efforts of her shev — a relative of the tsar, was completed at the expense of deliveries from abroad. Murom’s didn’t count, because even Nikolashka didn’t have the brain or the will for them, confront a relative, chief of aviation, a lover of single-engine airplanes and create a squadron of bombers at least 100 pieces.

            Say something they wanted?
            Quote: avt
            It was this period that became the formation of aviation in Russia / USSR ..

            It was this period that NO ONE considered. In discussion - ANOTHER period.
            Quote: avt
            not those times BEFORE the First World War and during it, when the efforts of the ascetics of the aircraft industry were contrary, and not thanks to the will of the royal camarilla. The same Sikorsky, Gakkel, and Anatra Anade with their attempts to create an aviation industry in Tsarist Russia into the sensation.

            To the sensation of you: strikes from aircraft carriers as part of the ASG against Turkey and Bulgaria in the USSR were not mentioned at all in WWII.
            In RI-were.
            Do you feel? yes
            1. avt
              avt 19 May 2018 16: 47
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              Say something they wanted?

              What I wanted - said, did not understand - your trouble, not my problem.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 19 May 2018 16: 48
                -1
                Quote: avt
                What I wanted - said, did not understand - your trouble, not my problem.

                And trouble is not trouble, and the problem of your inability to express your thoughts is also not mine. yes
        2. avt
          avt 19 May 2018 16: 46
          +4
          Yes ! About
          Quote: Olgovich
          2. The gold embargo for the USSR was announced only in the sick heads of foreign tourists: from 1931 to 1934 more than 260 tons of gold were exported from the USSR.

          This is you tsarebozhiki out of ignorance. Since Lenin’s Learn, study and once again study, ignore it. They really switched to gold purchases when it was specifically the US Treasury Secretary Morgenthau, the one who, by his plan (the tsarebozhiks really only know about the Marshall’s plan) brought Germany to extinction, thought and decided to play not in the short, but in the extinction of the USSR, but in the long - to collect as much gold coin as possible in Fort Knox. The apotheosis of this took place in Brightonwood by signing the relevant agreements that are currently in force.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 May 2018 16: 57
            -1
            Quote: avt
            This is you tsarebozhiki out of ignorance. Since Lenin’s Learn, study and once again study, ignore it. They really switched to gold purchases when it was specifically the US Treasury Secretary Morgenthau, the one who, by his plan (the tsarebozhiks really only know about the Marshall’s plan) brought Germany to extinction, thought and decided to play not in the short, but in the extinction of the USSR, but in the long - to collect as much gold coin as possible in Fort Knox. The apotheosis of this took place in Brightonwood by signing the relevant agreements that are currently in force.

            A meaningless set of pious words on foreign tourists. When they crossed, what they left to go, who moved, who decided why instead of the already secured extinction of the country of the Soviets (such a goal was, supposedly) they built ... hundreds of factories, gave loans and even offered food on credit to the famine (pious foreign tourists refused).
            Ah, what a "cunning plan." Or planT, all the same? lol
            1. tasha
              tasha 20 May 2018 07: 17
              +1
              How did the new government "strengthen" this aviation? And this aircraft with her, just disappeared ...

              Because aviation from wood, plywood and fabric for half a year in the open air disappears by definition ... There is nowhere to build a new from, there is nowhere and no one to build. The war is on. Civil ...
              1. Serge72
                Serge72 20 May 2018 07: 41
                +15
                And also heaps of governments parted and disheveled, including from improper exploitation
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 20 May 2018 08: 47
                -1
                Quote: tasha
                How did the new government "strengthen" this aviation? And this aircraft with her, just disappeared ...

                Because aviation from wood, plywood and fabric for half a year in the open air disappears by definition ... There is nowhere to build a new from, there is nowhere and no one to build. The war is on. Civil ...

                Quote: tasha
                There is nothing to build a new from, there is no one and nowhere.

                Correctly! And the article is talking about "strengthening".
                And what was previously destroyed was destroyed.
                1. tasha
                  tasha 20 May 2018 09: 35
                  +1
                  But Soviet aviation, having entered the battle initially without centralized leadership, without organized supply, without an orderly complex of air fleets, warehouses and airfields, without a sufficient frame of experienced and reliable pilots, nevertheless, grew and strengthened.

                  Soviet aviation was not at all, by definition. But after the Civil War, there was already a formed structure ... There were fewer aircraft, but aviation was strengthened ... This is such a paradox ...
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 May 2018 09: 39
                    -1
                    Quote: tasha
                    But after civil war

                    Article ONLY on the period of GW.
                    1. tasha
                      tasha 20 May 2018 09: 46
                      +1
                      Umm. So what?
  4. hohol95
    hohol95 20 May 2018 01: 23
    +2
    Dear author! Why did you insert a black and white sketch of the R-3 reconnaissance aircraft into the article?
    He appeared after the end of the Civil War!
    1. Serge72
      Serge72 20 May 2018 06: 26
      +15
      Dear author! Why did you insert a black and white sketch of the R-3 reconnaissance aircraft into the article? He appeared after the end of the Civil War!

      The civil war ended in 1923 (Yakut campaign). The fight with the Basmachi continued later.
      The author says about the fight against Basmachi, and ill. dedicated to this. So what's the problem?
      By the way, it is believed that it, Basmachism, was suppressed in 1924. And the R-3 flew in 1925. Then the questions arise: how, in principle, did the illustration appear and is it P-3?
      Maybe this is the P-1, which fought in Afghanistan in 1923?
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 20 May 2018 11: 43
        +2
        P-1 was noticeably different from P-3!

        Here is the P-1.
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 20 May 2018 11: 44
          +15
          Well, ask the artist a question: how does a plane that appeared in 1925 fight with the Basmachi
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 20 May 2018 11: 49
        +2
        And this is P-3.

        In addition, the picture in the article is a picture for an article about R-3 in the magazine Model-Designer!
        As you can see, the P-1 and P-3 differed in both engines and aircraft design.
        And the struggle with Basmachi continued after 1924!
        The most intense episode in the fight against basmachty is the Karakum operation, carried out in 1931, which resulted in the "defeated and liquidated armed part of the most implacable opponents of the Soviet regime ..."

        (Allaniyazov T.K. Red Karakum: Essays on the history of the struggle against the anti-Soviet rebel movement in Turkmenistan (March - October 1931). Zhezkazgan - Almaty, 2006, p. 241.)
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 20 May 2018 11: 53
          +15
          Yes, I know your pictures.
          In modelers and designers and different Tamah.
          It may then have continued, but just as the counter-terrorist operation in the Caucasus (cells and groups) continues. And the fight against basmachi officially ended in the year 24.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 20 May 2018 12: 02
            0
            And from what document does this appear?
            1. Serge72
              Serge72 20 May 2018 12: 09
              +15
              And why did you decide that you can ask me questions?
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 20 May 2018 12: 12
                0
                And why did you decide that you have the right to send me to artists ..
                1. Serge72
                  Serge72 20 May 2018 12: 28
                  +15
                  You raised the question about the picture, so you asked.
                  But so far it’s not sent. But you must?
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 20 May 2018 19: 13
                    +1
                    Well, ask the artist a question: how does a plane that appeared in 1925 fight with the Basmachi

                    Or is it not written by you?
      3. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 20 May 2018 17: 43
        0
        Quote: Serge72
        Basmachism, suppressed in 1924

        In the 26th, mostly. And so they also made raids from Afghanistan in the 30s.
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 20 May 2018 18: 06
          +15
          In the 26th, mostly.

          I’ll ask how the crest of me above:
          And from what document does this appear ??
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 20 May 2018 19: 07
            +1
            At least in literary sources, contemporaries reflected the struggle with the Basmachi in the 30s.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 20 May 2018 19: 36
              +1
              And regarding the documents, there is the work of Polyakov, Chugunov “The End of Basmachism”, with a bunch of links to archival documents.
              1. Serge72
                Serge72 20 May 2018 22: 18
                +15
                We are talking about specific documents, so to speak. More precisely, a document establishing the end of the war with Basmachism
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 20 May 2018 22: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Serge72
                  More precisely, a document establishing the end of the war with Basmachism

                  But there is no such thing. The surrender of the Basmachis was not signed somehow. request
                  1. Serge72
                    Serge72 21 May 2018 07: 04
                    +16
                    Basmachi did not sign surrender

                    It `s naturally. I thought they asked me something like a Manifesto or Order to end hostilities as a result of the defeat of the DOS. forces against which aviation was worth using. And the main such large forces, I read, were defeated in 1924. There remained small gangs, not worth even a sortie
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 21 May 2018 09: 31
                      +1
                      By September 31st, almost all of the Karakum were controlled in the basmachi. OGPU, SAVO, and volunteers participated in the operation against them. On September 13, after the Basmachi burned one T-27 (the head of the mechanized mechanized detachment was killed), aviation came to the rescue. They write about 22 aircraft that bombed the Basmachi on September 14, but did not find any documents on this subject. I found a document addressed to Yagoda on October 8 (OGPU summary). "On October 4, in the area of ​​the Ata-Kuyu well, aerial reconnaissance carried out a bombing of a gang - 50 dzhigits."
  5. tasha
    tasha 20 May 2018 07: 12
    +1
    Not a good article. Scraps, incomplete and still for some reason, the actions of the White Movement aviation climbed.
    1. Serge72
      Serge72 20 May 2018 07: 39
      +15
      The article is great!
      Well, brevity - sorry, not Karl Marx but VO.
      for some reason, the actions of the White Movement aviation got in.

      It is clear why - for comparison.
      Criticism is always easier. As Dostoevsky said:
      The writer, whose works were unsuccessful, easily becomes a bitter critic: so a weak and tasteless wine can become excellent vinegar
      1. tasha
        tasha 20 May 2018 08: 37
        +1
        It is clear why - for comparison.

        What to compare with? With such an episode, for example, which is not in the article? wink

        “Meanwhile, another red pilot from a low-level flight began to mow the White Guard’s attacking chains from a machine gun. According to the participant of the battle, the commander of the battalion of the People’s Army, captain Korzhenko,“ he became a the Bolshevik plane flew right in the direction of the detachment and, without picking up the heights, flew up to the chain and began to fire it with a machine gun. "..." The impression was the most disgusting and the soldiers could not stand it, they ran, the battle was lost the situation could not be restored ""

        There is a good and complete book on this subject. Recommend:
        "Marat Khairulin, Vyacheslav Kondratiev. Military personnel of the fallen Empire. Aviation in the Civil War ..."

        Criticism is always easier. As Dostoevsky said:
        .
        Why are you scaring me with Dostoevsky? wink I think that Fyodor Mikhailovich will not be angry with me, for my personal opinion about what I read.
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 20 May 2018 11: 41
          +15
          What to compare with? With such an episode, for example, which is not in the article

          It’s not episodes that compare - but situations
          Meanwhile, another red pilot from a shaving flight began to mow the White Guard's attacking chains from a machine gun. According to the participant of the battle, the commander of the battalion of the People’s Army, captain Korzhenko, “the Bolshevik plane began to scatter across the field located in front of the Sviyazhsk station, which was visible to the advancing detachment and served as an airfield for the Reds, and without taking up altitude, flew up to the chain and began to shell her with a machine gun. “...” The impression was the most disgusting and the soldiers could not stand it, they ran. The battle was lost and the situation could not be restored. ""

          Lord, how vividly! For the perception of the senior group of kindergarten wink
          And I recall a joke about the "hero" of the Civil War (although there are no heroes in such wars). I came to school and says: “I’m going to the hill on a white horse. I look to the left - your mother. I look to the right - your mother ...
          Schoolchildren: This is a memory laughing ".
          There is a good and complete book on this subject. Recommend:
          "Marat Khairulin, Vyacheslav Kondratiev. Military personnel of the fallen Empire. Aviation in the Civil War ..."

          Your recommendations to me unnecessarily. But then I can recommend you: Vyacheslav Kondratyev, Marat Khairulin. "Civil War Aviation." Also a wonderful book.
          Why are you scaring me with Dostoevsky? wink I think that Fyodor Mikhailovich will not be angry with me, for my personal opinion about what I read.

          Yes, I do not scare you, I need you for 100 years. And one hundred years to not know. I just noted that bad critics come out of bad writers. It seems to me - out of place.
          Well, I can recommend to the author, in relation to the criticizing shushara, who lives in (and as I noted, criticizing as a rule incompetent and often false), adhere to the meaning of another remarkable statement by F. Dostoevsky
          If you headed for the goal and stopped along the way to throw stones at any dog ​​barking at you, you would never reach the goal.
          .
          good
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            1. The comment was deleted.
  6. Cheburator
    Cheburator 20 May 2018 17: 20
    +15
    I liked the article
    tasha
    There is a good and complete book on this subject. Recommend:
    "Marat Khairulin, Vyacheslav Kondratiev. Military personnel of the fallen Empire. Aviation in the Civil War ..."
    Serge72
    Vyacheslav Kondratiev, Marat Khairulin. "Civil War Aviation." Also a wonderful book.

    And in both books there are not exactly those interesting episodes cited in this article. Information is unique
  7. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 22 May 2018 12: 33
    0
    In the Civil War, aviation was not only an auxiliary, but also an assault force, making a huge moral impression on the enemy.

    The horses were frightened of the planes - it was enough to walk at a low height, the horse's cancer in fear rushed to run.
    No damage, but demoralized hundreds still needed to be collected.
    1. Cheburator
      Cheburator 22 May 2018 15: 06
      +15
      The horses were frightened of the planes - it was enough to walk at a low height, the horse's cancer in fear rushed to run.

      As history has shown, it’s not enough. A particularly striking example is the case with the Zhloba case, and it was just an air strike and not one that was needed. And cavalry - to be in open space and be massaged
      https://topwar.ru/106756-aviaciya-protiv-kavaleri
      i-ili-reyd-na-melitopol.html