Military Review

Will the new Tsushima wait for us?

114
Will the new Tsushima wait for us?The results of the year are summed up every December. Do not bypass this custom and the Ministry of Defense. However, this time, the military began to sum up the results of November 7. It might seem that the open meeting of the board of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, at which the results of the 2012 – 2017 five-year plan were evaluated, was timed to coincide with the centenary of the Great October Socialist Revolution. But this is a mistaken impression. In fact, there was another reason. Five years ago - 6 November 2012 of the year - Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu headed the country's defense department.


Since Sergei Shoigu was somehow inconvenient to talk about the achievements of the ministry himself, the head of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces - First Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Army General Valery Gerasimov acted as the leading speaker. He painted an impressive picture of the changes that took place in the Armed Forces of the country during the five-year period. However, even a simple layman could appreciate the sharp increase in combat readiness of troops and fleet, notice the re-equipment of them with new models of weapons and military equipment.

And yet, Valery Gerasimov’s report had one topic that could not but cause doubt. This is a naval construction. For some reason, the Ministry of Defense is traditionally exaggerating here. “Over the past period, the situation with the equipping of the Navy with modern weapons has stabilized,” noted the Chief of the General Staff. - It received more than 150 ships and vessels, including more than 60 warships, including 15 carriers of high-precision Caliber missiles.

Yes, the shooting of this missile system at terrorists in Syria was not only highly effective, but also produced a huge response in the world. But the results of military shipbuilding in general are not impressive.

In Russia, the navy receives, to put it mildly, not very many combat units. Therefore, it is not difficult to track this process. Since 2012, the fleet has been replenished with three strategic nuclear-powered submarine missile cruisers (SSBN) of the Borey project, one multipurpose nuclear submarine (YPS) of the YN project 955, six diesel-electric submarines of the 885 project "Paltus", two frigates of the 06363 project, four 11356 project corvettes, one Dagestan rocket ship of the 20380K project, five small missile ships (MRK) of the 11661 Buyan-M project, one small artillery ship of the Makhachkala project of 21631 Buyan and the basic minesweeper Alexander Obukhov of the 21630 project "Alexandrite". That is, we have 12700 combat units available. Even if we add to them 24 anti-sabotage boats of the 14 Rooks project, two boats of the similar purpose of the 21980A project Mongoose and 12150 Patrol boats of the 11 Raptor project, whose total displacement is 03160 T, 23 of the 8 landing boats of the 21820 project boats, the ShpNXX of the Shymnénénénou-29 -35-ac-15 K-15-year-15 Shp-XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYYYYYYYYYYYYY. “Serna” and 11770 (BK-02510), still “over 16” does not work.

Why do we need such annotations, it is impossible to understand.

As for the overall picture, over the past 10 years, in the period from 2007 to 2017, the vast majority of units transferred to the fleet are basic boats: small raid and diving boats, floating cranes and floating targets. According to the accepted international classification, they are referred not even to auxiliary vessels (auxiliaries), but to service crafts. Of course, the fleet cannot do without them, but they have nothing to do with combat units.

HOLE FROM BUBLIC

Compensating for the shortage of real combat units, the fleet is addicted to all sorts of shows that are designed to demonstrate its growing power. Often, such events are held in the presence of Supreme Commander Vladimir Putin.

So, on September 6 of this year, the head of state visited the newest corvette “Perfect” of the 20380 project, anchored in Ajax Bay near Russian Island, where the Eastern Economic Forum (WEF) was held at that time, which was attended by heads of several states and governments, as well as big business in the Asian region. We find it difficult to answer the question why it was necessary to arrange a ship inspection during the operation of the WEF. But this event was served in the media widely.

The representative boat "Uragan" famously approached the board of the "Perfect", which became part of the Pacific Fleet 20 in July of this year and became the first large enough surface ship to replenish this alliance over the entire post-Soviet era. At the ramp, the head of state was met by the captain of the 3 rank Blinov and the 36 division commander of the Pacific Fleet surface ships based on Fokino in the Vladivostok area, the captain of the rank 1 Kovalev. "Perfect" is assigned to the 36-th division temporarily, since it is intended for service in the Kamchatka flotilla. The compound, headed by Kovalev, consists of the nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Lazarev (formerly Frunze), which is awaiting scrapping, the Guards missile cruiser Varyag and two destroyers of the 956 project, one of which is the Stormy, from the year 2005 has been located under repair at Dalzavod, and the second, “Fast,” rarely goes to sea, since they are simply afraid to release it. That is, in essence, the compound has only one active ship - the Varyag cruiser, which was commissioned 28 years ago.

It was not the commander of the ship Blinov, but the division commander Kovalev who took the head of state to acquaint him with the “Perfect”, apparently according to the seniority of the military rank. He began his excursion from acquaintance of the high guest with the anti-submarine / anti-torpedo complex, reinforcing his report with a poster demonstration of the system. Listening to the explanations, the president nodded approvingly. The paradox was that the Supreme Commander was not shown a complex, but in the literal sense of the word, a donut hole, since the launcher of the complex on the “Perfect” was somehow missing. There was only a bed from her. Where did she go? She did not have time to do for those 11 years that the ship was built? Or just not set? Maybe someone stole and sold for scrap? No answers to these questions were given. However, they were not set.

Then Kovalev led the president and his retinue into the ship’s nose, where he pointed to the place where the missiles of the newest anti-aircraft missile system (ZRK) should be located. It is clear that they were not there, because this complex has not yet passed state tests. Since 2011, 20380 project corvettes have been running around the seas and oceans without anti-aircraft guided missiles, that is, in fact, they are unarmed from air strikes. When the commander of the 36 Division spoke about the combat capabilities of the air defense missile system, the president also nodded his head, but somehow without enthusiasm. He is certainly aware of this problem, which was probably discussed more than once at meetings held annually in Sochi with senior commanders of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and leaders of the defense industry.

Today, X-35 anti-ship missiles of the Uran and 100-mm universal А-190 anti-ship missiles and the XNUMX-mm anti-ship missiles allow the corvette to function as a large missile boat and a patrol ship, as well as to fire at coastal targets. However, the main tasks of ships of this class related to the provision of anti-aircraft (air defense) and anti-submarine (PLO) defense are not available to him.

CREATION OF MYTH

However, the most striking naval event of last year was the Chief (it’s written in official documents with a capital letter) naval parade in St. Petersburg and Kronstadt on the occasion of Navy Day, which was celebrated on July 30. “We made a decision to revive the Main Naval Parade, which will be held in St. Petersburg,” said Vladimir Putin on the eve of the holiday, speaking at a joint press conference with Finnish President Sauli Niiniste. - I assure you, this is not a rattle weapons, this is a restoration, a revival of traditions that have been more than 100 years old. ” Sergey Shoigu spoke in the same spirit. “On this holiday, we will recreate one of the most important military rituals, which itself is a source of pride for our country, a spectacle vivid and unforgettable,” he said. By the order of the Minister of Defense even the medal “For participation in the Main Naval Parade” was instituted.

Anyone who is more or less familiar with history The Russian fleet knows that the imperial parades and naval parades were conducted from the time of Peter the Great. In 1939, this tradition was revived by Joseph Stalin on Navy Day. But never organized any major parades - either with a capital or a lowercase letter. The main parade is a modern invention, or rather a myth.

WHAT DID WE SEE ON HIM?

Let's start with the appearance of the participants. All admirals, generals and senior officers were dressed in ridiculous buttoned-up buttons and richly embroidered with gold thread uniforms of the late Stalin era. The parade was hosted by Vladimir Putin and Sergei Shoigu. They bypassed the construction of ships on the Neva on a white-painted boat P-344 of the Raptor type, made not in a patrol but in a VIP version and intended for traveling by the head of the defense department of the Russian Federation. Usually this “combat unit” of the Russian Navy, assigned to the Baltic Fleet, stands at the landing stage of the National Defense Control Center of the Russian Federation on the Frunzenskaya Embankment of the Moscow River. But on the occasion of the main parade the boat was driven to the Northern capital. And, as we will see, not his alone.

After the ships were examined, the Commander-in-Chief and the head of the military department left the P-344 on the Admiralty Embankment and climbed the podium installed on Senatskaya Square. Along the tribunes along the Admiralteiskaya Embankment, the sailors carried the symbol of the parade — the unfolded panel of the aft St. George flag of the Azov battleship. He was the first to receive him for his heroic actions in the 20 Battle of Navarino in October 1827 of the year. However, the banner did not look old. And who would allow to take out the 290-year-old relic from the Naval Museum, where is it stored? This assumption was confirmed after not having had time to bring the flag to the building of the Admiralty, as he jolted merrily in the wind over the dome of his Western tower. So, there were at least two copies of the relic.

Then came the appropriate speeches, greetings and congratulations. Before the podium solemn march proceeded foot ceremonial calculations. And now the time has come for the most spectacular part of the event - the passage of ships on the Neva. It really was great.

The first, a wave of the wave, quickly ran through numerous anti-diversion boats of the Rook type and Raptor patrols. This "extras" was a success due to the fact that for a month or more these boats delivered to the Northern capital not only from the Baltic, but also from the Black and Caspian Seas, as well as from the Northern Fleet. By the way, anti-submarine aircraft IL-38H, flown from the Far East, took part in the airborne unit of the Main Parade.

For small boats followed by minesweepers, missile and landing boats, small rocket and anti-submarine ships - most of them are still Soviet-built. The frigate “Admiral Makarov”, the “Resistant” corvette, the large landing ship “Minsk” and the diesel-electric submarine (DEPL) “Dmitrov”, that is, ships of 2 rank, remained on the barrels, of which the last two are heritage Soviet era, and the frigate has not yet entered into the Navy.

Then an equally impressive second section took place - Kronstadt. Logically, the Supreme Commander, the Minister of Defense and the persons accompanying them were to board the helicopters and fly over to the island, to which they are within reach. But they did it easier: they put down a huge screen on which a television report was broadcast from Kronstadt. All the same could be organized without leaving Moscow. Indeed, until the middle of the 50 of the last century, naval parades were organized in the capital. Torpedo boats, large and small hunters, and even small submarines lined up along the embankment of the Central Park of Culture and Rest. Gorky, that is, opposite the current National Center for Defense Management of the Russian Federation. Katerny parade to arrange and now is easy. At the same time, it is possible to conduct TV reports on the big screen not only from Kronstadt, but also from Baltiysk, Sevastopol, Novorossiysk, Severomorsk and Astrakhan. And from Vladivostok - to show the festive salute and ships, decorated with illuminations.

But back to the Kronstadt branch of the parade.

It consisted mainly of large ships and submarines of the 1-th and 2-th ranks. The wake structure stretched for several miles. The Marshal Ustinov missile cruiser, which completed a five-year repair in December last year, the large anti-submarine ship Vice Admiral Kulakov and Vladikavkaz diesel-electric submarines represented the Northern Fleet. The large landing ship "Alexander Shabalin", the IPC "Zelenodolsk" and "Kazanets" were delegated by the Baltic Fleet. The new diesel-electric submarines “Veliky Novgorod” and “Kolpino” of the 06363 project, later famous for delivering massive high-precision strikes against terrorist objects in Syria, were still only preparing for the transition to the Black Sea.

To the south of the sea channel, the North Sea heavy SSBN Dmitry Donskoy and the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Peter the Great stood on barrels. They did not participate in the defile, because with their size it is difficult to do. Of course, it was dumb, as is customary to say now, to overtake these huge ships from the North to the Baltic around Scandinavia. Their campaign triggered a reaction from Western European countries, but it did not seem to be the one they were counting on in the Russian Defense Ministry. After all, it is known that “Dmitry Donskoy” - the largest submarine in the world - is not used as a combat one, but only as an experimental one, with the help of which new types of weapons are tested. Now, if she carried hundreds of two or three cruise missiles, as previously envisaged, the effect of this “cruise” would undoubtedly be quite different. It is also known that Peter the Great is in need of repair, but when its time comes, no one can say yet. And is it necessary at all? These two atomic monsters in the northern seas and the Baltic were not followed by NATO warships, but by environmental control vessels who constantly took water samples to increase its radioactivity. But the fears of Western European countries were in vain. Everything went without incident.

REVIEWS OF LIABILITY

Special mention should be made of the frigate "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" of the 23500 project and the large landing ship (BDK) "Ivan Gren" of the 11711 project who participated in the main parade of the 2017 of the year, although just like the Admiral Makarov were not included composition of the Navy. Both of them belong to the champions of protracted.

Ivan Gren laid 23 December 2004 of the year - 13 years ago! The project was reworked several times at the insistence of the customer. When the idea of ​​"mistralizing" the airborne forces of the fleet arose, they generally gave up on the BDK. But after Paris turned to Moscow, to put it mildly, with its back and tore up the deal on the helicopter carriers, Gren was remembered again. To speed up its refinement, the project was once again “improved”, that is, simplified. During the tests last summer, it turned out that the ship’s magnetic field exceeds all permissible norms and the BDK can play the role of a minefield breaker, since sea mines with magnetic and combined fuses would inevitably have worked if Gren was near them. At the end of October 2016, the BDK was taken to the dock to "refine the demagnetization system." It provided for the replacement of cables, for pulling which required the dismantling of a number of pipelines and other equipment. This operation is akin to replacing blood vessels in humans with the temporary movement of vital organs. Only in the spring of this year, factory running tests were resumed, and on November 30, the BDK began to implement the state testing program.

A little less built frigate "Potters". 1 February next year marks 12 years since its inception. The ship went through numerous stages of testing, but was not accepted by the fleet due to the non-operational weapon system. This was again 29 November, said Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov. He expressed the hope that by the end of December rocket launches will be successfully completed and the frigate will enter service. Vice-Admiral Viktor Bursuk, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy for Armaments, echoes him. “Now Admiral Gorshkov is completing state trials, we are waiting for him this year, like Ivan Gren,” he told TASS correspondent. “Both of these ships are now in the final stage of state tests, as is the frigate of the 11356 project Admiral Makarov. But such assurances we hear not the first year ...

"Admiral Makarov" has long been ready. It was delayed for more than a year by the testing of a new version of an anti-aircraft missile for the Shtil-1 air defense missile system, which, as they say, was finally completed successfully. Probably, Ivan Gren will be ready for the New Year. But with the "Gorshkov" is not so simple. The ship also fulfilled most of the state test program, but problems again arose with the latest air defense system installed on it. However, this problem is not new. This complex was to receive the Novik frigate of the 12441 project, built back in the 1997 year, that is, 20 years ago. But the ship was never completed due to the unavailability of a number of weapons systems. Now the Novik, which was first reclassified into an educational-experimental ship and renamed Borodino, decided, as the sailors say, to “cut it into needles,” that is, to send for scrap.

Our new corvettes have been walking without working air defense systems for many years. However, they belong to the ships of the near sea zone, which in case of a threat from the air can, at least theoretically, be covered by airplanes of the base aviation. The frigate "Gorshkov" is called upon to operate in the distant sea and ocean zones. There you can’t call an interceptor to repel attacks by attack aircraft and cruise missiles.

It seems to the author that the fleet and the Ministry of Defense have long been ready to give the go-ahead for the inclusion of the Gorshkov in the Navy. But this, it seems, at least until recently, was opposed by the president. Now new elections are coming, and the head of state may flinch in order to please the electorate.

PARADE FLEET

Alas, it should be recognized that warships in Russia are built for a long time and often poor quality. For them, there are often no necessary engines, some types of weapons and other components. During the main parade, it remained to envy the Chinese sailors who arrived halfway through the world at an event held on the banks of the Neva and in the Gulf of Finland, on magnificent ships - the destroyer “Heifei” of the 052D type with a combat command system similar to the American Aegis and the Yunchen frigate type 054A. The PLA Navy received six 2014D destroyers from 052, eight were launched and at least one more hull is on the stocks, and from 2008 of the year, the Chinese fleet was replenished with 25 frigates of the type 054A, and three more are being completed afloat.

Incidentally, in Russia there is a class pladinits, with enviable regularity and without any problems replenishing the fleet. October 10 of this year in Kronstadt was held the signing ceremony of the acceptance act and raising the flag of St. Andrew on the communication boat “John of Kronstadt” of the Burevestnik project 21270. This vessel, or rather the executive class yacht, included in the Baltic Fleet, is intended for service trips of senior commanders, as well as the taking of parades. 27 January of this year, the Black Sea Fleet joined the Sapsan of the same type. He was a little late, as he was supposed to be commissioned at the end of last year, due to problems with domestic engines installed instead of MTU diesel engines as part of the import substitution program.

"Sapsan" and "John of Kronstadt" - the fifth and sixth boats of this type. Their main task is comfortable and safe delivery of high-ranking officials to the site of naval celebrations. So, last July 31, President Vladimir Putin, on Navy Day, inspected the construction of ships on the Neva just from the board of the Serafim Sarovsky boat of the 21270 project.

During the construction of these, even very expensive boats usually do not know the problems with financing, the supply of components, etc., almost all warships and auxiliary vessels in Russian shipyards are confronted with. But the "petrel" is not enough. In the Pacific, the patrol boat T-10 of the 299 project, called the “Hurricane”, was turned into a representative ship 02065 years ago. It was on him that the Supreme Commander approached the board of the “Perfect” corvette in Ajax Bay.

At the Sokol Shipyard 27 of October of this year for the Russian Navy a launch boat of communication of the project 1388HZ Baklan of an improved modification was launched. This is the fourth ship of this family, two more ordered. "Cormorants" are also intended for representational purposes. Compared to the “Thunderbirds”, they have higher seaworthiness, 10 days autonomy and 1000 miles cruising range.

From the same VIP-class boat P-344 Minister of Defense. This "Raptor" is not at all combat, but also a luxury yacht. At the very landing stage at the National Center for Defense Management of the Russian Federation on Frunzenskaya Embankment, two premium-class Pardus-type air cushion boats found registration, also having no military significance.

Other power departments have their own parade yachts. For example, the Coast Guard of the Border Guard Service of the FSB has two newest border boats of the special service (PKAS) of the 21600 "Khost" project. Since they are based on Sochi, it is not difficult to guess what the subject of their “special service” is. The Federal Guard Service has a large number of “cool” boats, mostly foreign-built.

Are there many smart yachts for a not too large fleet?

Under current conditions, when the naval shipbuilding plans implemented by the fleet command and shipbuilding enterprises are stalled, all these parade boats are a kind of ball gowns of a naked ship, which the modern Russian Navy is today.

Ceremonial events require considerable funds. The fun of the 2017 Main Parade of the year, active preparation for which began in two months and which included the repair of ships and aircraft, as well as numerous crew training, not to mention the distant distillation of many participants to the scene of action, required at least a billion rubles, if not more . Burned fuel, wore out the material part, the crews broke away from combat service and combat training. The event could be more modest.

In an interview with the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda, published on December 1, Admiral Vladimir Korolev, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, said that intensive preparation for the main naval parade of the 2018 began this month. The show goes on!
Author:
Originator:
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2017-12-22/1_978_cusima.html
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  1. HEATHER
    HEATHER 23 December 2017 15: 02 New
    +8
    The results of the year are summed up every December. No one even remembered that today is 103 years of Long-Range Aviation.I’ll fill in the memory gap. With the holidays of me and all of us! drinks hiYesterday is energy day, today is day YES! My kidneys will soon go into free swimming!
    1. seti
      seti 23 December 2017 15: 16 New
      11
      And on the topic: the ship is not a tank or even a fighter. It is much more complicated and more expensive. And it goes without saying much longer. Requires specific technology and manpower. But blaming our modern warships as well as our shipbuilders is stupid. All fleets have problems, and no less than ours. Very few countries can design and build modern warships and equip them with today's weapons. Especially such as a corvette, a frigate, a destroyer, not to mention a nuclear submarine. We can. And to return the experience lost in the dashing nineties is a priority. We will deal with it. The main thing is that we need a quiet time without internal shocks.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 23 December 2017 15: 38 New
        28
        Quote: seti
        And on the topic: the ship is not a tank or even a fighter. It is much more complicated and more expensive. And it goes without saying much longer.

        You can reassure yourself with such thoughts as much as you like, from this, there will not be more warships. And I agree with the author that much is simply hushed up when new fleets are transferred to the fleets.
        Regarding long-term construction and stupid reporting ... I recall the story of the Ukrainian GTU Motor Sich ... and begs the question: could we not have foreseen such a development of events by the time we were 13, laying corvettes and frigates? And only when the fried rooster pecked, we began heroically import substitution. To call it negligence is the same as to say, say gangrene of the hand, a slight general malaise. This is a crime that affected the country's defense.
        Now, according to new statements about the new armament program until the age of 27 ... it is clearly stated there that the emphasis will be on strengthening the coastal zone, and with this in mind, various RTOs will be built. But not a word about surface ships of the first rank. Let me remind you that the same Atlanta in the ranks are already under 40 years old. And there is no replacement for them and is not expected until at least 27 years old.
        Ashes, too, is not thank God ... let's start with the fact that they are planned only 7! Pieces. For comparison, only the States already have 13 Virginia, and it is planned to increase their number to 30. There is a clear quantitative bias towards strategic missile carriers, taking into account the fact that for each SSBN it needs at least two multirole targets.
        In general, I come to the disappointing thought that our fleets are updated according to the residual sign and that the fleet renewal program is not a priority.
        1. seti
          seti 23 December 2017 15: 46 New
          14
          Nobody consoles himself. The problem is our leadership and the wrong economy. The fact that money from the country is constantly being pumped out like a pump. I agree that there is already a lot not only in the fleet but in general in the country what is called matured and it (the country's leadership) does not even itch. Verily, until a thunder strikes, a man crosses himself.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 24 December 2017 00: 54 New
            17
            The bottom line is that our whole life has been turned into a propaganda PR show.
            The release of a pair of boats is already an event of universal scale.
            What’s under the bright cover?
            And there is a drop in production, the loss of many industries, broken science, education, medicine, as a result of the dying impoverished people and over all this - theft is all!

            And the show is mast go!
            1. Yarik
              Yarik 24 December 2017 09: 10 New
              +5
              The release of a pair of boats is already an event of universal scale.

              Absolutely! And it’s like the Ukrainian armored boats of the shaggy year’s model to blame on all resources. But in fact the same thing.
          2. Sverdlov
            Sverdlov 24 December 2017 11: 00 New
            +2
            We are waiting for the year 2041. And wait ...
        2. Dart2027
          Dart2027 23 December 2017 16: 42 New
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          In general, I come to a disappointing thought that our fleets are updating according to the residual sign

          Most likely it is. I just read an article today
          It is planned that in 2018 the level of modern technology in the Russian army will reach 82% in strategic nuclear forces, 46% in the Ground Forces, 74% in the Air and Space Forces, and 55% in the Navy.

          More details at TASS: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4836276
          That is, priority is on nuclear weapons, then the airborne forces, the ground forces seem to be in 4th place, but given their number, I believe that in terms of costs in third. On the other hand, it has its own logic.
          Quote: NEXUS
          it clearly states that the emphasis will be on strengthening the coastal zone
          And this is just understandable - if there is no air defense for DMZ ships, then how to build them?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 23 December 2017 17: 20 New
            13
            Quote: Dart2027
            On the other hand, it has its own logic.

            You can find logic if you wish and the insane ... By the number of surface and underwater systems we are catastrophically losing to the States (I’m not saying that we are trying to catch up with them), but if we take all the NATO naval forces together? Let's say our Pacific Fleet ... Japan has the youngest and most developing fleet in that region. Take a look at the years of construction of Japanese warships. And they build destroyers, and quite systematically. And if you put nuclear weapons out of the picture, what can the Pacific Fleet oppose to the Japanese fleet? RTO Karakurt and a couple of corvettes with Caliber? I am silent about Peter the Great, as this cruiser, like Tuzik, is being driven from region to region.
            Without a strong fleet, even our land component will be lame on both legs.
            1. seos
              seos 23 December 2017 18: 02 New
              +9
              By the number of surface and underwater systems, we are catastrophically losing to the States
              And in any case, we will lose, even if we sell the whole country together with the population into slavery, all the same, there will not be enough money for such a fleet, but there is still the cost of maintaining such a fleet .... The US needs the fleet as a world aggressor, we need it why the heck didn’t fuck it up .... Its composition and speed of development completely suits me, the fleet is not the basis of the Russian defense, it is only a minor part, comparable with any engineering troops no more .. And in the next 30 years we will not need it threats come from other directions ..
              A threat to Russia for the next 30 years: it is only one -
              The possibility of the collapse of the country from the inside (the main US plan and work on it come with fantastic results)
              Officials will steal, develop corruption, living standards will fall, factories will be bought out and closed by Western investors, etc.
              In the circle of Russia, the former USSR countries will start civil wars to destroy the pro-Russian population.
              Russia will continue to be trampled into the mud in all directions ...
              + Economic pressure + Loss of all possible cases in ENEMY courts, etc.
              Everything will be done so that the country is full .... and our elites will play a major role in these processes ...
              And then tell me, why the navy surrendered to us under such conditions?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 18: 08 New
                +6
                Quote: seos
                And then tell me, why the navy surrendered to us under such conditions?

                Neither the fleet, nor the airborne forces, nor the Strategic Missile Forces, nor the ground army are needed for the threat you described. Give disarmament! wassat
                1. seos
                  seos 23 December 2017 20: 51 New
                  +4
                  Not disarmament, but industrialization ... but there is no political will on it ...
                2. Yarik
                  Yarik 24 December 2017 12: 37 New
                  0
                  When Tsushima surrendered - 1 ruin, 2 under-something and one who does not understand who. Which fleet surrendered?
              2. NEXUS
                NEXUS 23 December 2017 18: 14 New
                +5
                Quote: seos
                And in any case, we will lose, even if we sell the whole country together with the population into slavery, all the same, there will not be enough money for such a fleet, but there are still expenses for the maintenance of such a fleet ...

                For these bookworms, I wrote ..
                Quote: NEXUS
                (not saying to try to catch up with them)

                We are talking about the balance of the fleet, as one single organism, capable of performing any task efficiently and quickly.
                Quote: seos
                the fleet is not the basis of the Russian defense, it is only a minor part, comparable to any engineering troops no more ..

                Hmm, more idiocy and hard to come up with. Dear, I'm interested in, did you serve at all or didn’t you lift anything harder than a mouse? What is the secondary role to the Devil? fool The fleet provides not only cover for its shores, but also is one of the components of the nuclear triad. Moreover, it is the fleet that takes the first blow of the adversary. What can the land detachments with tanks and RZSO if our fleet is not able to cover them from the sea? An enemy squadron will come up and iron us from a distance of 2000 km, but the land dealers will be wiped out, because there’s nothing to answer. Before you write such frank nonsense, you thought at least that there were no first-graders sitting here.
                Quote: seos
                Officials will steal, develop corruption, living standards will fall, factories will be bought out and closed by Western investors, etc.

                Listen, I’m fed up with this Navalshchyna ... you don’t have to climb on the armored car and vote that the elites and the political elite are to blame. Become the head of such a giant as Russia and I will see what you do. And there is full confidence that you will chew snot and row money with a shovel, spitting on the people. And now, sit here reasoning like this, only because your personal wealth does not suit you.
                1. Sverdlov
                  Sverdlov 24 December 2017 11: 15 New
                  +5
                  “Listen, I’m fed up with this Navalshchyna ... you don’t have to get on the armored car and vote that the elites and the political elite are to blame. Become the leader of such a huge society as Russia and I will see what you will do.”

                  Everything is done simply. Revealed an illegal decision of a judge in Uryupinsk - we remove the supreme judge with a loss of rights and pension. Assign deputy. And so on in all posts.
                  During the year, the judicial system will work. And now the judges have lost fear. Laws are not respected by the courts, from the word AT ALL.
                  I spoke and I repeat - the enemy is not at the gate, he is in the rear. And eating for your money.
                2. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 25 December 2017 00: 18 New
                  +1
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  The enemy’s squadron will approach and from a distance of 2000 km it will iron us, and the land pilots will wipe away, because there’s nothing stupid to answer.

                  This is not our case, our land explorers have something to answer. It’s just the opposite, without cover from the coast, our fleet against the US fleet, what is it?
            2. Dart2027
              Dart2027 23 December 2017 18: 32 New
              +1
              Quote: NEXUS
              By the number of surface and underwater systems, we are catastrophically losing to the States

              I don't mean that. Just priority is given to those who are considered the most important here and now.
              Quote: NEXUS
              Without a strong fleet, even our land component will be lame on both legs.

              I agree, but I'm not sure that we will pull both of them at once, and nobody canceled the problems with new weapons. Now that 22350 seems to be completed, and nuclear weapons with the videoconferencing are more or less updated, let's see how it goes
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 23 December 2017 18: 41 New
                +3
                Quote: Dart2027
                Just priority is given to those who are considered the most important here and now.

                That's what I’m talking about - updating the fleet is a priority here and now, DOT. Without a strong balanced fleet, all our efforts on the land, VKS, etc., are just dances with a tambourine and nothing more.
                Quote: Dart2027
                Now that 22350 seems to be finished

                They didn’t finish anything there ... they reported and no more. For example, we need such corvettes at least 40-50 pieces for all fleets. And they’ll build 10-15 pieces and that’s all. The situation is the same for frigates, if not worse. About cruisers and destroyers with their full missile defense and air defense, I generally keep quiet.
                On the underwater component in general, complete seams. We have been building multipurpose workers for 10 years. This is not even funny but sad.
                Quote: Dart2027
                and nuclear weapons with VKS more or less updated,

                Nuclear weapons updated? And excuse me, where is at least one missile on duty Rubezh (Vanguard) or Sarmat? The VKS also has enough mess. Why so stretched the line of heavy MFIs? Multipurpose fighters with similar performance characteristics and tasks were riveted and rejoice ... kapets techies will have fun.
            3. KaPToC
              KaPToC 25 December 2017 00: 15 New
              0
              Quote: NEXUS
              In terms of the number of surface and underwater systems, we are catastrophically losing to the United States (I’m not saying that we are trying to catch up with them), but if we take all NATO naval forces together?

              The United States is twice as large in population, and NATO is eight times as physically we cannot equal them in the fleet.
              Quote: NEXUS
              what can oppose the Pacific Fleet to the Japanese fleet

              Are you going to fight with a country comparable to Russia in terms of population by the forces of one Pacific fleet? You decide there you are a dreamer or a dreamer?
        3. antivirus
          antivirus 23 December 2017 23: 15 New
          0
          DO NOT BECOME THE SECOND USSR ON THE FLEET AGAIN-- this is foreign policy and the irritant of the West.
          GREAT IVS ALSO SLOGONS PUSHED AND BUILT TORPED BOATS
          after the Second World War began to go to the Ocean.
          Do we have Eastern Europe and part of Asia and Africa under the “boot”?
          and a currency separate from the west?
          and what to protect in the oceans ???
          there is no our trade, it will not decrease from GDP at 2%
        4. cariperpaint
          cariperpaint 24 December 2017 05: 48 New
          +1
          Equality in numbers with the Yankees is an arms race. then wild money and zero sense. Well, we also set up 30 pieces, and for what? as for the coastal zone, this is personally my opinion is normal. money must also be considered. what concerns Ukraine, yes is it predicted how? everything happened too quickly, and the proof is Crimea. All the decisions that were made on it clearly indicate that there was very little time to make a decision. and choose the smallest of evils.
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 24 December 2017 07: 06 New
            0
            everything was clear with the outskirts by the end of the 90s
            and kept them at hand distance and could not strangle in a hug
        5. Bf109e7
          Bf109e7 24 December 2017 13: 28 New
          0
          and what do you want from the 140 million people who are surrounded by billionth China, united Asia is about 800 million, Europe is 400 million and more, the United States is 320 million people. Yes, we are almost gone!
      2. ImPerts
        ImPerts 23 December 2017 16: 03 New
        0
        Quote: seti
        All fleets have problems, and no less than ours.

        The flagship of the Royal Navy of Britain, the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, put into operation on the 7 of December this year, leaked.
        An aircraft carrier worth 3,1 billion pounds (more than 4 billion US dollars) leaked due to a poor-quality propeller shaft seal, whose function is to prevent water from entering the compartment. According to the newspaper Sun, due to marriage, an aircraft carrier collects up to two hundred liters of sea water every hour.
        The Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier was launched on December 7 by Queen Elizabeth II at the naval base in Portsmouth. Problems were discovered even before the ceremony, during the tests.

        http://www.bbc.com/russian/news-42409499
        1. dSK
          dSK 23 December 2017 19: 21 New
          +2
          Quote: ImPerts
          aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth

          The second British aircraft carrier launched. “Prince of Wales will be the largest ship of the Royal Navy in history, because, due to changes and improvements to the design of the second ship, it will have a total displacement of 3000 tons more than Queen Elizabeth.
      3. lukewarm
        lukewarm 27 December 2017 12: 24 New
        0
        Quote: seti
        We will deal with it. The main thing is that we need a quiet time without internal shocks.

        Yes, there is already enough of it, this time without INTERIOR shocks has been given to this power to show the country and the world something except doping scandals, plundered spaceports and yachts instead of cruisers. The point is not in the absence of time, but in the system. If nothing has been done for so much time without revolutions and with expensive oil, the mountain gave birth to a mouse, then give this ... power 3 times the result will be even worse.
    2. katana
      katana 23 December 2017 15: 37 New
      +5
      The Navy, like no other modern military branch, is connected with the state of the economy. Yes, and powerful countries have always built ships, even in the ancient world. With the improvement of the economic situation in the Russian Federation, I hope that military shipbuilding will increase its pace.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 16: 30 New
        17
        Quote: katana
        With the correction of the economic situation in the Russian Federation

        That is - never
        1. katana
          katana 23 December 2017 17: 27 New
          +4
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: katana
          With the correction of the economic situation in the Russian Federation

          That is - never

          Well, why is it so pessimistic - the Russian Empire showed miracles of economic recovery at the beginning of the 20th century. The Russian people are essentially European people, whatever your propagandists would say to you. Such a state of affairs in the economy cannot last forever - a crisis and a crisis the patient would have recovered. But I have some bad examples - for example, Argentina - the country has not been able to get out of the permanent crisis for decades. I ask you not to poke the example of my Motherland - in fact, since the beginning of independence, there has been a continuous war with Azerbaijan, Armenia has no access to the seas, Turkey has closed its border with Armenia, not to mention Azerbaijan. This is imposed by the disgusting government of the country. There is not even an independent judiciary in the country - and this is the cornerstone of the development of any country.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 17: 50 New
            +7
            Quote: katana
            Well, why so pessimistic - the Russian Empire showed miracles of economic recovery in the early 20th century

            This was not a miracle, but a consequence of a sensible and competent economic policy oriented towards a domestic producer, pursued by Alexander III "Peacemaker". And with all this, his measures gave effect with a certain delay - but this is just normal for any economy, first you invest, then you get a return.
            And when will we have a reasonable policy focused on our own manufacturer? Putin will sit for another 2 terms for sure, but she won’t be there before he leaves. And strong doubts about what will happen after.
            With all this, the Russian empire of the early 20th century in industrial production is only the 5th economy of the world. A lot, but ... not amazing
            Quote: katana
            This state of affairs in the economy cannot last forever - a crisis and a crisis so that the patient would recover.

            Only not with us. In our country, the state treats any crisis at the expense of domestic producers
            Quote: katana
            I ask you not to poke an example of my homeland

            Lord, what does she have to do with it? request Are we talking about Russia?
            1. dSK
              dSK 23 December 2017 19: 53 New
              +4
              Hello Andrey!
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              About Russia
              For 2018, the "military budget" of the United States is $ 647 billion, China - $ 192 billion, Russia - $ 47 billion.
    3. max702
      max702 23 December 2017 21: 49 New
      +2
      Here it is necessary to raise the question of how straightforward we need a fleet? especially on an ocean scale? and first of all, you need to understand what tasks he will solve, are there any, and how much are they priority? Here's what the fleet can do now in a conflict with someone? Here the most important thing is with whom is the conflict? What are these countries and opponents? first of all, these are NATO countries .. but everything is clear that in the event of a conflict, the abyss is too great and if we don’t want a crushing defeat, we will have to use the great leveler of nuclear weapons .. how this will end is clear to everyone .. The same thing in case of conflict with China .. And who there remained of the opponents on planet earth? Perhaps only India .. But with us there are no points of confrontation from the word at all .. Who else? Japan Well, Duc is the surest vassal of the United States and we look at the first point .. All sorts of Brazil. Argentina, Peru and the Chad republics are absolutely uninteresting, because if something interesting appears for us then the USA will be drawn right away .. and look again at point number one .. So the question is why do we need a fleet? We still can’t use it for its intended purpose .. Now, the main problem is that there are no ships which the Navy should protect, rusty vessels of the Syrian express do not count, as practice has shown, there is enough of the flag of our country .. So everyone who hasn’t played enough in the boats think why do we need these expensive toys, stop lying to yourself as there are much more effective ways to address threats to our country today ..
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 21: 54 New
        +8
        Quote: max702
        So the question is why do we need a fleet?

        To begin with - to provide the SSBNs, on which we have nearly half of the nuclear warheads deployed. AND?
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 24 December 2017 02: 38 New
          +1
          So KTOF must be strengthened by all means. The only fleet where the SSBNs have (so far have) relatively free access to the ocean. But given the pace the buildup of the fleet of the country of the rising sun is coming soon and everything will be blocked there. Especially for them, this theater is familiar and you can say home.
        2. KaPToC
          KaPToC 25 December 2017 00: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          To begin with - to provide the SSBNs, on which we have nearly half of the nuclear warheads deployed. AND?

          In the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and under the ice of the Arctic, no SSBN cover is needed.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2017 09: 38 New
            +3
            Quote: KaPToC
            In the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and under the ice of the Arctic, no SSBN cover is needed.

            Sorry, but you just said the most complete stupidity.
        3. max702
          max702 26 December 2017 01: 11 New
          0
          This is certainly desirable, but do you yourself believe in some sort of real deployment of the SSBN?
          God forbid that they have time from the pier, but some kind of crazy in the open sea fired .. And that's all ...
          ENOUGH FANTASY ALREADY ..
      2. lukewarm
        lukewarm 27 December 2017 12: 30 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        Here it is necessary to raise the question of how straightforward we need a fleet? especially on an ocean scale?

        This thesis has long been exaggerated in the patriotic media. About sufficiency and so on. It would have worked if it had not been preceded by unsuccessful attempts to build something. And so it turns out: “Pu-u-k! It didn’t work out ... Yes, I didn’t intend, I didn’t need it.” Meanwhile, the Syrian Express perfectly showed the state of our fleet. And not only express - warships went there with great fanfare but with a pine forest. What really! They said for a long time - everything is ruined! The 2014th struck - and, well, everything turns out to be chocolate, in the necessary quantities and NATO is in awe ....
        1. max702
          max702 28 December 2017 00: 37 New
          0
          Clear the gentlemen with admiral's epaulettes wanted to stir up the naval battle, but life showed all the crazyness of this venture, expensive, difficult, and pointless .. Shoes are very difficult to admit defeat in front of boots .. by and large with such an isopian language, I described the main problem of our Navy .. they don’t need them .. that’s all .. on the scale that they aren’t needed, but on those that are needed, we won’t be able to ...
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 28 December 2017 13: 47 New
            0
            This is exactly what happened back in Soviet times, but then they didn’t take money into account, and therefore they developed the fleet to unthinkable sizes. Now there is no more money, and as it turned out, you can not scare anyone but the Papuans by the surface fleet, which is why it is time to radically change the concept of building a modern fleet, where any mastodons must die quietly. But the submarine fleet is our future.
    4. xetai9977
      xetai9977 24 December 2017 10: 37 New
      +1
      Thanks to the author for an honest approach to the problem. So, without embellishment and pathos "so many units of combat ships have been adopted!" And how many are decommissioned? About this, no ...
  2. zyzx
    zyzx 23 December 2017 15: 27 New
    +2
    What kind of nonsense? And here is Tsushima? Under Tsushima, and certainly, with the loss of the Port Arthrtur squadron, we nearly lost to the Japanese. The role of chance played a general mess, and under Tsushima the poor preparation and complete unwillingness of the rank and file of sailors to fight, it is not clear why. And first of all people howl, and technology helps. Since you don’t arm the army of Azerbaijan or Saudi Arabia, the army will not work. We still have people, although there will not be any more 20 years of de-Sovietization.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 15: 41 New
      +6
      Quote: zyzx
      and under Tsushima poor preparation

      The fact that under Tsushima the Russian sailors fired more effectively than in any other battle of the Russian-Japanese and World War I - is this nothing? wink
      1. zyzx
        zyzx 23 December 2017 19: 09 New
        +2
        Facts where? They got into the water well, yes, but not in Mikasu.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 19: 56 New
          +7
          Quote: zyzx
          Facts where?

          "Surgical and medical description of the naval war between Japan and Russia." (The Medical Bureau of the Maritime Department in Tokyo. - 1905. "Will it work?"
          "About 117 shells with a caliber of 120 mm and above and about the same number of smaller calibers."

          Those. over 230 hits. Ships Vitgefta (1TOE) even 40 shells did not manage to drive.
          Quote: zyzx
          They got into the water well, yes, but not in Mikasu.

          Over 40 hits were planted in Mikasu, with 19 of them in the first 15 minutes of the battle
          Damn, yes, British observers, and they noted a good shooting Russian, one you do not know ...
      2. dSK
        dSK 23 December 2017 20: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        under Tsushima

        The big question is who and why drove for obvious slaughter the fleet through half the world. The CER was already operating and the largest Russian army at that time could defend Port Arthur. hi
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 20: 41 New
          +4
          Quote: dsk
          The CER was already operating and the largest Russian army at that time could protect Port Arthur

          Here, generally speaking, we need bandwidth to consider what they could transfer and what they could supply
    2. Dalailama
      Dalailama 23 December 2017 17: 13 New
      +1
      They fought for their homeland.
      Played the role of sabotage of ammunition, weapons, equipment and ammunition in order to create a revolutionary situation.
      1. dauria
        dauria 23 December 2017 20: 53 New
        +2
        Played the role of sabotage of ammunition, weapons, equipment and ammunition in order to create a revolutionary situation


        Admirals Rozhestvensky and Nebogatov also wanted a revolution, when they handed over ships without a fight? Do not write nonsense. They didn’t skip a fight skillfully, that’s the result. Shot like unarmed barges, not losing not only the armadillo - even the cruiser of the second rank. And the heroism of the crews (and there were some) did not save.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 23 December 2017 21: 21 New
          0
          Among the military leaders of this level, non-partisan non-masons were not.
          The barges were unarmed, almost all of the shells did not explode when they hit the target. And do not pretend that you do not know about it. The second example of such sabotage with detonators and explosives is the Anglo-Argentine war, after the failure of which the left came to power in Argentina.
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 21: 55 New
          +2
          Quote: dauria
          Admirals Rozhestvensky and Nebogatov also wanted a revolution, when without ships a ship surrendered?

          Well, Nebogatov is understandable, but Rozhdestvensky, what side to the delivery of ships? wassat
          1. dauria
            dauria 23 December 2017 22: 57 New
            +4
            and Rozhdestvensky, what side to the delivery of the ships?


            The destroyer "Bedovy" was Rozhdestvensky conscious and not at death with the headquarters. The destroyer surrendered without a fight. The forces were equal !!!! Two enemy destroyers and two intact Russians with ammunition and a reserve of coal - "Bedovy" and "Grozny". "Terrible" calmly reached Vladivostok. At the trial, Rozhestvensky confirmed that the ship had been surrendered on his orders. You can add Enquist, who left the squadron with cruisers and threw armadillos at night under the blows of the destroyers of the enemy.
            Such a mediocre command with a pre-war external gloss and "PR" is still to be found in history.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 23: 34 New
              +4
              Quote: dauria
              The destroyer "Bedovy" was Rozhdestvensky conscious and not at death with the headquarters.

              fool A man whose skull was broken and the fragments went between the bone and the brain so that the doctors then for 2 months did not dare to remove them from there - conscious? Md wassat
              Quote: dauria
              At the trial, Rozhestvensky confirmed that the ship had been handed over on his orders.

              Can you quote this place of Rozhdestvensky’s testimony? :) Well, it's just interesting :)
              1. dauria
                dauria 24 December 2017 02: 02 New
                +1
                Before renaming all the evidence collected against me here, I consider it a duty to establish that, having woken up from a swoon, in which I was overwhelmed by "Violent", I no longer fell into oblivion until today. Witnesses. showing that I was raving wrong ... "


                I understand that you apparently read Semenov's "Payback". Extremely biased book. And do not shield the careerist and the tyrant.
                junior mine officer of the battleship "Prince Suvorov", Lieutenant Vyrubov, in letters to his father:

                "The admiral has not been to other ships since leaving Russia ... He considers commanders as officers without exception scoundrels and scammers.

                The admiral continues to tyranny and make gross mistakes. We have all become disillusioned with him for a long time and expect nothing from him. This is a product of the modern regime, and even much hyped by advertising. His career is purely random. Maybe he is a good courtier, but as a naval commander, he is worthless. "(War Archive, Cabinet No. 4, Case No. 305.)
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 December 2017 09: 37 New
                  +5
                  Quote: dauria
                  Before renaming all the evidence collected against me here, I consider it a duty to establish that, having woken up from a swoon, in which I was overwhelmed by "Violent"

                  Sorry, but I asked you to quote the place of Rozhestvensky’s testimony where he claimed it. You can read his reports and testimonies here.
                  http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=28076
                  2 # p280762
                  http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=28211
                  3 # p282113
                  http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=28763
                  4 # p287634
                  Quote: dauria
                  I understand that you apparently read Semenov's "Payback". Extremely biased book. And do not shield the careerist and the tyrant.

                  I understand that you probably read Novikov-Priboy (who, in fact, gives your quote) and who piled so much lies in his "Tsushima" that ...
            2. climber
              climber 24 December 2017 17: 13 New
              0
              Zinovy ​​Petrovich was seriously injured and could hardly adequately assess the situation. And his status on the "Bedovoy" is not entirely clear - he transferred the command of the squadron on the 14th, he leaves the destroyer as a passenger and cannot answer for his surrender.
          2. Nehist
            Nehist 24 December 2017 02: 45 New
            +1
            Andrey, what could Nebogatov do in that situation? Heroically die with the crews of their ships and those rescued from the sunken earlier? Yes, the Japanese would have shot them as if in a dash without entering the effective fire zone of his detachment.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 December 2017 09: 38 New
              +2
              Quote: Nehist
              Andrey, what could Nebogatov do in that situation?

              Stoke ships or fight. Fleet charter.
              1. Nehist
                Nehist 24 December 2017 10: 05 New
                +1
                Charter is not a dogma! - A guide to action! (WITH)
                Mind has not yet been canceled. If there was a chance to inflict at least some damage, the sense of fighting was. And if not? Yes, and Nebogatov would be the sailors from the rescued ships would be the first to throw overboard if he thinks to fight.
                Article 354 of the Maritime Charter of 1899: “During the battle, the commander sets an example of courage and continues the battle to the last possible opportunity. In order to avoid useless bloodshed, he is allowed, but only with the general consent of all officers, to surrender the ship in the following cases:
                1) if the ship is so broken that it is impossible to overcome the leak and it apparently begins to sink;
                2) if all the charges and shells are spent, the artillery is shot down and in general the methods of defense are exhausted, or the loss in people is so significant that resistance will be completely impossible;
                3) in the event of a fire that cannot be extinguished by one’s own means and if, moreover, in all the cases indicated, it will not be possible to destroy the ship and seek rescue of the crew on the shore or in boats. In any case, before the delivery of the ship, the commander must destroy the signal books, secret cards and all the important papers and instructions he has. ”
                You are well acquainted with the Tsushima process, there were plenty of coalitions there.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 December 2017 12: 12 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Nehist
                  Mind has not yet been canceled. If there was a chance to inflict at least some damage, the sense of fighting was.

                  And who said that there was no such opportunity? Talking about long distances from which our ships supposedly didn’t shoot - this is in favor of the poor, because the squadron battle in Tsushima was carried out at distances of 10-40 kbt, our guns were completely shot at 4 miles
                  Quote: Nehist
                  Yes, and Nebogatov would be the sailors from the rescued ships would be the first to throw overboard if he thinks to fight.

                  Tell me, is there any reason for such a statement?
                  1. Nehist
                    Nehist 24 December 2017 21: 02 New
                    0
                    And you read the memoirs of officers, many of them write that the situation was nervous. Yes, not only officers wrote about this.
                    And do not compare the battle on the 14th when the squadron was intact. And 15 when the remnants of the squadron saw how 4 new EDBs went to the bottom and then everything was in front of them, once again ALL 12 ships of the Japanese line. And yes, the Japanese had no choice on the 14th, but on the 15th when the main combat units were drowned they could choose both distance and time and place.
                    Mr. Nakhimov in the Crimean generally drowned his own fleet and this at parity with the enemy without even entering into battle with him. But they made him a hero
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 December 2017 21: 58 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Nehist
                      And you read the memoirs of officers, many of them write that the situation was nervous. Yes, not only officers wrote about this.

                      I ask you to specify who exactly and what wrote. Because I’m at least for the kill, I don’t remember something threatening rebellion. Well, let’s omit Novikov, of course. And about the nervous situation ... the nervous situation was on the "Glory" October 4, 1917
                      Quote: Nehist
                      Mr. Nakhimov in the Crimean generally drowned his own fleet

                      Excuse me, is there a difference between "drowned" and "surrendered"?
                      Quote: Nehist
                      and this at parity with the enemy without even entering into battle with him

                      Well, it's pretty hard for me to understand how the 5 flooded Russian battleships suddenly became more than 19 allied battleships
                      1. volodimer
                        volodimer 2 January 2018 18: 01 New
                        0
                        Andrey, I almost completely agree with your assessments of the results of tsushima. But to evaluate Nebogatov’s decision, I wouldn’t be so unequivocal. Not everyone is given the courage to blow themselves up with the last grenade. Well, there would be not only Admiral Ushakov, but a few more. What is more patriotic: to go to the South Caucasus without a flag and anthem, or to send everyone to the forest ... I do not approve of Nebogatov’s choice, but I do not condemn either. almost everything in the trash) The choice is bad in any scenario.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 23 December 2017 15: 32 New
    +8
    Are there many smart yachts for a not too large fleet?
    ... Almost like the eminently murdered emperor Nicholas II, it is necessary to comply with the status ..
  4. Conductor
    Conductor 23 December 2017 15: 32 New
    +6
    Yeah, medal for participating in the parade !! The parade is equivalent to a military operation !! And the shape is in the photo what, standing collars as under Stalin.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 15: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Conductor
      stand-up collars as under Stalin.

      But, disgusting, Stalin himself ....
      1. Conductor
        Conductor 23 December 2017 17: 21 New
        +2
        What is Stalin himself? No to them?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 17: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Conductor
          What is Stalin himself? No to them?

          Aha
          1. Conductor
            Conductor 23 December 2017 17: 59 New
            +1
            And do not clone.
  5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 15: 40 New
    15
    Tsushima will not, for one simple reason - it needs a squadron of ships, but we don’t have it
    1. twviewer
      twviewer 23 December 2017 15: 55 New
      +7
      Shoigu reported, 60 thousand of the igil militants alone were put up, so they have squadrons ... only on paper
      https://music.yandex.ru/album/4477293/track/35778
      590
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 23 December 2017 16: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: twviewer
        Shoigu reported, 60 thousand of the igil militants alone were put up, so they have squadrons ... only on paper

        In fact, basically they were laid by our VKS.
        1. twviewer
          twviewer 23 December 2017 17: 04 New
          +4
          whistle, do not measure the area of ​​Syria! 503 223 sq. Km. ???
          however, I’ll also look at your squadrons in the light of the sequestration of expenditures just at the Navy
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 23 December 2017 18: 34 New
            0
            Quote: twviewer
            whistle, do not measure the area of ​​Syria!

            That is, on the fact of the number of militants killed, do you mind?
            About the reservation of that time I am in the know.
            1. twviewer
              twviewer 23 December 2017 18: 44 New
              +3
              I object and demand evidence, but regarding the reservation
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 23 December 2017 19: 43 New
                0
                Quote: twviewer
                mind and demand evidence

                OL statement is not enough for you? So what do you want?
                Quote: twviewer
                but about the reservation

                Where is this from?
                1. twviewer
                  twviewer 23 December 2017 20: 50 New
                  +2
                  maybe it turns out that this is his spasm of the facial muscle? I would still look at the documents :)
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 23 December 2017 21: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: twviewer
                    I would still look at the documents

                    Intelligence data? Will they show you?
                    1. twviewer
                      twviewer 23 December 2017 22: 14 New
                      +4
                      what kind of intelligence is there if the videoconferencing did not do 80% of flights
                      and if they only mowed 60k, then there’s nowhere else to bury the other jihadists, plus we’ll add to the killed wounded by multiplying by 5 and it turns out that the jihadists and fight, then there was no time when all the poor were buried and evacuated
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 24 December 2017 06: 32 New
                        0
                        Quote: twviewer
                        if the videoconferencing did not make 80% of the missions against the needles

                        As bandits do not name, but the essence of this does not change. All this public is one DAISH.
                      2. twviewer
                        twviewer 24 December 2017 14: 41 New
                        +1
                        As bandits do not name, but the essence of this does not change. All this public is one DAISH.

                        So with the version that the VKS regiment dispersed an army of jihadists the size of a Chinese, we figured out
                        Now, with regard to your version that the MO is latent imbecile and does not understand the meaning of the words it pronounces ... I will say simply, I don’t think so.
              2. Sverdlov
                Sverdlov 24 December 2017 11: 36 New
                +1
                Just an ingenious dumb answer! It turns out that the land area is calculated taking into account the plowing furrows. Tell this to the inventors of geometry from ancient Egypt ...
                1. Sverdlov
                  Sverdlov 24 December 2017 11: 38 New
                  0
                  Well, what do we understand in naval humor ... :-)
    2. Conductor
      Conductor 23 December 2017 17: 24 New
      +1
      And if you put everything together in pieces, then you look at the squadron and it will come out. Kuzya, Petr, Varyag and Moscow Chabanenko, a couple of 956, several new frigates, a couple of apls, yes Warsaw, RTOs of 7-strong.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 18: 02 New
        +5
        Quote: Conductor
        And if you collect everything on a gimbal, then you look at the squadron it will come out

        Nope. Kuznetsov - yes, although it’s better not to drive him anywhere before repair, Peter, Varyag and Moscow - yes, Chabanenko EMNIP has not left the repair yet, 956 - if only in tugboats, nuclear submarines - well, yes, out of those 13 that are currently in operation something can be collected.
        But this is not a squadron, but AMG (multi-purpose aircraft carrier group). But what is a squadron .... OPESK, as you probably know, this is the Operational Squadron.
  6. HEATHER
    HEATHER 23 December 2017 16: 01 New
    +3
    New Tsushima will not rise from the ashes. Learned.
  7. Galleon
    Galleon 23 December 2017 16: 15 New
    +6
    Everything is written correctly, in detail and in detail.
  8. rudolff
    rudolff 23 December 2017 18: 13 New
    10
    If you believe the official statements and their interpretations in our media, the successes of Russia as a whole and military shipbuilding in particular have already bloated to the size of a gigantic mega-airship. But if you are not too lazy, take a pencil and count yourself, it may turn out that instead of the airship there will be a soccer ball. Best case scenario. On the one hand, this is a trivial swindle. On the other hand, the whole system of state power and administration of Russia rests on this swindle. Presidential rating including. What happens if you stop puffing and start telling the truth? Unknown
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 23 December 2017 22: 08 New
      +4
      Quote: rudolff
      What happens if you stop inflating and start telling the truth? Unknown.

      Probably, like the great Goodwin in the Emerald City, without green glasses, everyone will see that the "emeralds" are not real. Russia in capitalism, capitalism has become a world system, with planetary dependence, with uniform rules, created by the owners of this system, this is the world pole of power, which without socialism has become unipolar, whatever they say under our government, and the owners of this pole are not in Russia live. The Soviet potential, which got our home-grown billionaires for free, and leaves Russia still great. As soon as the Soviet margin of safety dries up, everyone, even the most obstinate patriots, will see that being dependent on the West, you cannot have true sovereignty, be a great country, they are not the masters of capitalism. The fleet most clearly reflects the economic situation of the country, and in our case, this is not a very joyful illustration. Of course, you can sing about the "land" of Russia, aircraft carriers that are "outdated" as a species, which are suitable only against the "Zulus", but only a full-fledged fleet can fully ensure national interests, be one of the main tools in international politics. The fleet in this became a litmus, with external dependence, it was the fleet that became the first victim of a foreign lobby, sabotage and sabotage. Russia will change the social system, the fleet will emerge from someone else’s pole, there will be a fleet, but for the time being, Russian bad guys build yachts in size for a cruiser, and, in their dollars, they also store foreign banks, hardly anything will change.
  9. Alexandr Kovalev
    Alexandr Kovalev 23 December 2017 18: 52 New
    +1
    I agree with the author: the construction of new ships of rank 1-2 is much ... slowed down. But one should not shed tears and rock the boat.
    In my opinion, the construction of the fleet will be a priority in the new program until 2027 (along with the VKS and the Strategic Missile Forces). The priorities of defense construction and parts of the ground forces and general-purpose equipment have already reached the specified quality at the first stage of rearmament (the first 20 trillion). In the same period, conditions were laid for the technical modernization of industry, which ensures the production of equipment for the Navy and VKS. Therefore, the construction of the fleet was postponed to the effective period of the country's development (exit from recession into growth, growth of reserves and income). Next year we will see the equipping of projects 11356 and 22350 with Russian energy; the projects themselves will be continued with construction, as well as the auxiliary, icebreaking and oceanographic fleets. The modernization of the Soviet ocean fleet will acquire a new quality (weapons based on the latest technological achievements). I do not exclude the beginning of the modernization of the 3rd building of the 1144 Lazarev project in the Far East (despite the author’s skepticism). At the end of the decade, we will see the beginning of the construction of a series of ocean atomic leaders (7–9 buildings, similar to projects 955 and 885). And it has already been determined that lovers of floating airfields will be happy with the laying in 2025 of a new aircraft-carrying cruiser with a dignity of up to 60 tons for nuclear power. With all this, all these decisions on the main links of the Russian Navy will be complemented by the construction of ships of the 2nd and 3rd ranks at an increasing pace that correspond to the growth of competence of shipbuilders (!), And not the state’s capabilities (which professional opponents and their propagandists).
    But here I am ready to agree with them: in this sensitive branch of military construction (which directly affects the sphere of vital interests of the Atlantic Union), the speed of building an effective fleet in the Russian Federation is limited not only by the professional competence of builders, but also by the loyalty of the elite and lobbyists in the government sphere. But the resistance of the state system to sabotage will be tested not in the upcoming elections.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 December 2017 19: 51 New
      +5
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      But one should not shed tears and rock the boat.

      Yes, yes, no matter how bad it is, but we won’t rock the boat, otherwise it will become worse? wassat
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      In my opinion, the construction of the fleet will be a priority in the new program until 2027 (along with the VKS and the Strategic Missile Forces).

      But in my opinion such a program does not exist in nature. There is a program 2018-2025, it is signed
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      The priorities of defense construction and parts of the ground forces and general-purpose equipment have already reached the specified quality at the first stage of rearmament (the first 20 trillion).

      Of the first 20 trillion, 6-8 trillion were spent.
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      Therefore, the construction of the fleet was postponed to the effective period of the country's development

      That is, once after communism. Clear.
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      Next year we will see equipment of projects 11356 and 22350 with Russian energy

      All three 11356 and four 22350 including Gorshkov? Here is the power ... wassat
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      At the end of the decade, we will see the beginning of the construction of a series of ocean atomic leaders (7–9 buildings, similar to projects 955 and 885).

      In a drug dream, or what? So do not use. Within 2025 g, HUSKY MAY BE laid, one or two, and three in them after 2030 g, this is if you dream (after listening to the promises of our admirals and USC-shnik)
      Quote: Alexandr Kovalev
      And it has already been determined that lovers of floating airfields will be happy with the laying in 2025 of a new aircraft-carrying cruiser with a dignity of up to 60 tons for nuclear power.

      Is this from where? :))) There was infa that there will be studies and there MAY BE a bookmark, but neither the displacement nor the EC were called
  10. Vsevolod Primorsky
    Vsevolod Primorsky 23 December 2017 20: 27 New
    0
    In general, I agree with the article. Finally, they began to pay attention to the lag of the Navy from other branches of the Armed Forces. But the author makes some mistakes regarding the size of the 36th division.
  11. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 23 December 2017 22: 11 New
    +1
    Alexander Mozgovoy
    MY UNNY friend, oh no - buddy!
    In the history of Russia there were dozens of Tsushim, if you did not notice, then go to school, at least in the fifth grade. And the Finnish, and the 41st, and Narva ... we are looking at it now - a trifle, and there our fate was decided. And Citizen, and 1856 ... And always by the blade of a knife. And they always got up and passed, and blood ran along the blade by a stream. ... And we will go through more than once. This is so for us. But the shallow grass is high time ....
    And Russia has always risen. It is not necessary to count small and vilely how many who licked whom. We get up from the couch (well, at 41 of course, the men moved away from the harrow stronger ....)
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 December 2017 23: 46 New
      +3
      In the summer, autumn and winter of 41 years, the Germans gave us the most devastating Tsushima - they lost almost the entire fleet.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 23 December 2017 23: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: Vadim237
        In the summer, autumn and winter of 41 years, the Germans gave us the most devastating Tsushima - they lost almost the entire fleet.

        And what? Is Russia gone? What did you want to say, sickly?
        Just to get to Claudia, and there. the grass does not grow.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 December 2017 12: 48 New
          +2
          Yes, several million people have disappeared. I have a tablet - I don’t need a keyboard.
  12. LPD17
    LPD17 24 December 2017 00: 44 New
    +6
    Mr. Usmanov’s Dilbar yacht for 600 euros, how much is it in Grachonki?
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 24 December 2017 12: 41 New
      +3
      Mr. Usmanov’s Dilbar yacht for 600 euros, how much is it in Grachonki?

      Mmm ... ask Putin, at the same time find out how strong a companion is in mathematics.
  13. Radikal
    Radikal 24 December 2017 00: 56 New
    +5
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: seti
    And on the topic: the ship is not a tank or even a fighter. It is much more complicated and more expensive. And it goes without saying much longer.

    You can reassure yourself with such thoughts as much as you like, from this, there will not be more warships. And I agree with the author that much is simply hushed up when new fleets are transferred to the fleets.
    Regarding long-term construction and stupid reporting ... I recall the story of the Ukrainian GTU Motor Sich ... and begs the question: could we not have foreseen such a development of events by the time we were 13, laying corvettes and frigates? And only when the fried rooster pecked, we began heroically import substitution. To call it negligence is the same as to say, say gangrene of the hand, a slight general malaise. This is a crime that affected the country's defense.
    Now, according to new statements about the new armament program until the age of 27 ... it is clearly stated there that the emphasis will be on strengthening the coastal zone, and with this in mind, various RTOs will be built. But not a word about surface ships of the first rank. Let me remind you that the same Atlanta in the ranks are already under 40 years old. And there is no replacement for them and is not expected until at least 27 years old.
    Ashes, too, is not thank God ... let's start with the fact that they are planned only 7! Pieces. For comparison, only the States already have 13 Virginia, and it is planned to increase their number to 30. There is a clear quantitative bias towards strategic missile carriers, taking into account the fact that for each SSBN it needs at least two multirole targets.
    In general, I come to the disappointing thought that our fleets are updated according to the residual sign and that the fleet renewal program is not a priority.

    You are also some kind of naive wink Until the 13th year, "they" solved tasks more importantly - it was necessary to privatize (steal) what they did not manage to privatize in the 90s! And you about some kind of watercraft! The main thing is what to accept the main parade, and the rest ... in another life! In general, profanity is everywhere, on everything, in everything - in short, at the state level!
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 24 December 2017 13: 59 New
      0
      The main thing is what to accept the main parade, and the rest ...

      You are really joking. "Aurora" leave, it seems, will be enough. And they will write that they say 8x152 ... we’ll tear it up .... Something about the fleet-like was under the USSR. And now ... Sailing boats and tugboats are the top ... I don’t know what. The bunkers are for border guards. cool.
      1. Yarik
        Yarik 24 December 2017 14: 29 New
        0
        Then he scribbled about a yacht of friends of a prezik, Mr. Ulyukaev. For its cost it was possible .... well, in any case, useless corvettes, however, to think about.
  14. Antares
    Antares 24 December 2017 11: 38 New
    +2
    Tsushima is a system. Since the author uses a household name in the role of the Japanese and Togo with Oku, officials of this system. The whole system.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 December 2017 12: 51 New
      +3
      Tsushima is the system of our defeat on the ocean and seas - for well-known reasons.
  15. Antor
    Antor 24 December 2017 14: 07 New
    +1
    Reality and official figures do only the Navy dance !! ?? We learned to speak well to the public, even the Guest of the Ministry of Finance subordinated, so that, God forbid, they blurted something out ...... !!!! Therefore, everything is fine with us in words, but in reality a lot is depressing and we live a little poorly, I’m not talking about what our president recognizes upon the poverty of millions of Russians !!! In March we will elect the president and they promise us again, so everything will be beautiful !!!
    I want to believe so, because hope dies last, but ...... I'm afraid that everything will remain the same: the rich will grow rich, and the poor will be poor.
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 24 December 2017 14: 35 New
      0
      Regarding the election, one och said well. smart person - “I would go to the polls if there were“ against everyone ”in the ballot, but, due to the fact that now there is none, I won’t go.”
  16. Irbis
    Irbis 24 December 2017 17: 29 New
    0
    Everyone thinks he is a strategist seeing the fight from the side.

    Here I can be clever? How am I worse than other clever men?)))) Do you really think that modern troops live apart from each other? Well, somewhere at the level of the XIX century. But as a taxpayer, I have a question, to spend 180 lard on crap, which can nullify another crap for 100 lard, when it's easier to make 10 fucking on 1 lard, capable of destroying 10 fucking on 100 lard.

    You know that gentlemen theorists, you will come here to the Far East, and ohrineet from the fact that it is useless to peel a BU. There are rough terrain around here. You do not have enough missiles (this is for those who know how nuclear weapons work) and you understand this. The only thing they can do is block the connection. And that is not a fact (I hope, not a specialist, etc.)

    We have ships, airplanes, missiles, and other mutat are a means of defense and not attack. We recall that for a successful attack on the enemy's UR, you need sevenfold superiority. And so we think logically 1 to 7, sat down at the enemy, there are 7 ships, how much do you need for defense? At least one. This is so, a dilettante calculation. I would esche hang a 1 ship, a couple of airplanes, a pair of armors, bastions, etc. and put my yacht in kilometers that way in 20.

    Well, this is so, then in whom do not spit all smart
  17. Radikal
    Radikal 24 December 2017 19: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Irbis
    Everyone thinks he is a strategist seeing the fight from the side.

    Here I can be clever? How am I worse than other clever men?)))) Do you really think that modern troops live apart from each other? Well, somewhere at the level of the XIX century. But as a taxpayer, I have a question, to spend 180 lard on crap, which can nullify another crap for 100 lard, when it's easier to make 10 fucking on 1 lard, capable of destroying 10 fucking on 100 lard.

    You know that gentlemen theorists, you will come here to the Far East, and ohrineet from the fact that it is useless to peel a BU. There are rough terrain around here. You do not have enough missiles (this is for those who know how nuclear weapons work) and you understand this. The only thing they can do is block the connection. And that is not a fact (I hope, not a specialist, etc.)

    We have ships, airplanes, missiles, and other mutat are a means of defense and not attack. We recall that for a successful attack on the enemy's UR, you need sevenfold superiority. And so we think logically 1 to 7, sat down at the enemy, there are 7 ships, how much do you need for defense? At least one. This is so, a dilettante calculation. I would esche hang a 1 ship, a couple of airplanes, a pair of armors, bastions, etc. and put my yacht in kilometers that way in 20.

    Well, this is so, then in whom do not spit all smart

    Consider that "smart" happened ... wassat
  18. Dart2027
    Dart2027 24 December 2017 21: 24 New
    0
    Quote: twviewer
    So with the version that the VKS regiment dispersed an army of jihadists the size of a Chinese, we figured out
    Do you know the strength of the PLA? 2,3 million
    Quote: twviewer
    MO is latent imbecile and does not understand the meaning of the words it pronounces ... I will say simply, I don’t think so.
    MO is a living person and may well make a reservation.
    1. twviewer
      twviewer 25 December 2017 12: 55 New
      0
      1.8 million than not Chinese?
      Mentioned where the statement?
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 December 2017 19: 32 New
        0
        Quote: twviewer
        1.8mln

        Well, where did they say about the destruction of these millions?
        Quote: twviewer
        Mentioned where the statement?

        Anything can happen.
  19. Nemesis
    Nemesis 25 December 2017 00: 20 New
    +1
    That is why I do not see the prospects for the development of Russia with all of these Yeltsin’s heirs.
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 25 December 2017 06: 20 New
      +1
      these heirs of Yeltsin

      The heirs of the figs would be with him, but these are followers.
  20. ccsr
    ccsr 26 December 2017 14: 07 New
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    Without a strong fleet, even our land component will be lame on both legs.

    This is a strong exaggeration, if only because the functioning of the Strategic Missile Forces does not affect the existence of the fleet at all, and they are our main nuclear power.
    But the fact that the need for a radical restructuring of its structure has matured in the fleet itself is obvious. It is time to reduce our surface units, especially of large displacement, and reallocate funds to finance the construction of the submarine fleet, especially with regard to nuclear-powered missile carriers.
    It will be they who will pose a real danger to the United States in the XNUMXst century, at least from the point of view of flying time, which is why this component of the nuclear component must be developed in the fleet in the first place.
    Everything else is from the evil one, or from not knowing what the USA is really afraid of.
  21. ccsr
    ccsr 27 December 2017 13: 41 New
    0
    Quote: unwillingly
    Meanwhile, the Syrian Express perfectly showed the state of our fleet.

    At the same time, everyone saw how to conduct military operations without a fleet, and launching from the Caspian Sea showed that it was not worth driving warships thousands of miles from bases from the North Sea to the Mediterranean.
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