Military Review

The statement of the ex-commander in chief of the VKS revealed the systemic problems of combat aviation

94
Harsh criticism of the manufacturers of Russian helicopters was heard from the mouth of not just anyone, but the former commander-in-chief of the VKS, now the head of the Senate defense committee. “The pilot doesn’t see anything, the pilot doesn’t hear anything,” Victor Bondarev describes problems with the avionics of the Mi-28 helicopter. And this seems to be just the tip of the iceberg. The problem concerns not only combat helicopters.




The head of the Senate Committee on Defense and Security, former commander-in-chief of the VKS, Viktor Bondarev, said that the Russian “defense industry” had corrected a number of flaws in the Mi-28 “Night Hunter” helicopter, but the electronics remained “disastrous” there.

“The pilot does not see anything, the pilot does not hear anything. These glasses, which are worn by pilots, are called "death to pilots". The sky is cloudless - everything is fine, and if there is a smoke, three days with red eyes go, ”Bondarev said. He spoke about this at a meeting on legislatively ensuring the work of the defense-industrial complex. According to the ex-commander-in-chief, the Ministry of Defense does not sufficiently finance design developments.

With the Mi-28, tragic incidents have already occurred. One of them was associated with flying at night in combat conditions. On the night of April 12, 2016 of the year in the Syrian province of Homs crashed Mi-28H, both pilots died. After an investigation, it turned out that the error of the crew piloting the car using helmet-mounted night-vision devices had led to the tragedy. Whether the error of the extremely experienced crew could be related to the features of night vision devices was not reported.

“We can say that I was at the origins of this problem when the predecessor of this machine, the Mi-24 helicopter, just appeared in Afghanistan. It was created as an air infantry fighting vehicle: it is armed and carries, ”Major General Alexander Tsalko, a veteran of the war in Afghanistan and former deputy commander of the Air Force of the Baltic Military District of the USSR for the army, explained to the newspaper VZGLYAD. aviation.

“In reality, however, it turned out not“ and - and ”, but“ either - or ”. With troops, but without weapons. Or with a weapon, but without landing. Due to the landing, the dimensions have been increased, and the dimensions are weight. As a result, in Afghanistan, closer to the middle of 80, we were asked to re-arrange the Mi-24, and also to remove the cargo compartment. So he would be somewhere a ton lighter, and it would already be a good fire support helicopter. That was how the Mi-80 helicopter appeared by the end of the 28, ”Tsalko explained.

“When the first pilots retrained for this helicopter, the impressions were very different,” added Tsalko. - There were flaws that always come first. In the process of mastering them cleaned. But at that time another car came out - Ka-50, it was significantly better than the Mi-28. Because Mi-28 is just Mi-24, re-arranged at the end of 1980's. ”
The press service of the concern KRET, which produces electronics, to which Bondarev complained, could not provide the VIEW newspaper with a prompt comment.

Test pilot, Hero of Russia Magomed Tolboev on air NSN blamed the contractors for the problems with the Night Hunter electronics. Problems, according to his version, could arise due to the fact that certain companies were able to lobby for their equipment, although it is far from ideal.

"Tracer flying and meter torches from machine guns"



Another helicopter pilot, also a veteran of the war in Afghanistan, told the newspaper VIEW, on condition of anonymity, that the pilots' eyes do not get tired of “smoke”, but of outbreaks of breaks during night battles. And we are talking about the very glasses that the former commander-in-chief of the VKS mentioned.

“The main problem of these glasses is the lack of protection against bright flashes. You look at them like welding. Bondarev speaks about the difficulties in using glasses in adverse weather conditions, but this is not as critical as the use of glasses during a fight.

Powder gases from rockets, of course, glow. And here in the battle you shoot, they shoot their own, the enemy shoots, tracer fly and meter torches from machine guns - one continuous flash is around, and this makes your eyes very tired,


- The interlocutor explained.

“Even in peacetime, if you look through these glasses at night on a settlement, everything has arrived. We need to think of something so that the sources of the flashes are extinguished, and the scattered night light, on the contrary, increases. The threshold of sensitivity below should be higher, and for the upper level - lower. But, unfortunately, industry does not always respond well to requests from pilots, ”the expert complained.

“In Afghanistan, we noticed that the spirits walk with beautiful night vision binoculars. We captured these binoculars as trophies and used them. I took a few pieces with me on the flight. And here in Torzhok, in a research aviation center, we made equipment weighing three kilograms for flying at night. Instead of machine guns on the nose of the helicopter they attached a bandura weighing more than a machine gun, and the screen was like an iPad. I flew once with this equipment - you can kill yourself! ”- said the source.

“But I showed them the captured binoculars, and I say: do the same. They did, even a little bit better. They did not even have to be held in their hands anymore - they picked up binoculars on a protective helmet: you take them from above, you lower them, and they are already in front of you, ”the source added.

“But in order to fly in these glasses, it is necessary to make a different cab, a night one. You need to see how the devices work. But with this equipment, however, it was possible to fly. As a result, the modernized binoculars were called glasses, but their eyes are still quickly tired, ”explained the expert.

In Syria, our pilots are also fighting in uncomfortable cabs

Colleagues Bondarev on military aviation wondered why he spoke about this issue in public only now, becoming a senator. After all, it can not be that he did not know about the same problem, working as commander in chief of the VKS. The problem with cockpit ergonomics and weapon control systems, according to pilots, is far from new.

“Everyone sees reports of regular combat use of Tu-22М3 aircraft in Syria,” another high-ranking source in the Russian Air Force reminded the newspaper VIEW.

“But no one, except specialists, knows in what difficult conditions pilots work in these Tu-22М3, how uncomfortable the chair is, how limited is the cabin, what awkward head restraints - and how this, respectively, interferes with the combat mission. It is not only about the working conditions of the crews in the cockpit, but also about errors and inconveniences in the weapon control systems. ”


According to him, the pilots spend several hours in these chairs and experience problems after returning even to just get out of the cockpit - back is so numb.

“The plane was built several decades ago; all this time, the industry simply ignored the complaints of the military about the extremely uncomfortable conditions of habitability and ergonomics. The aircraft has been repeatedly upgraded and improved, but anything has improved in it, but not only as regards the comfort of the pilot and the ease of operating the aircraft, ”said the source of the newspaper VIEW. He added that the problem is systemic in nature and is rooted both in the psychology of the military and in the absence of normal feedback from the military-industrial complex.

“First of all, many even high-ranking military are afraid to criticize both the authorities and the machines in which they have to work, according to the principle“ as if something did not work out, ”the source says. - Secondly - and this is perhaps the main thing - there is completely no platform where representatives of the army and industry could discuss the operation of equipment. There is neither a forum, nor special meetings, there is no system mechanism that allows the military to send their comments to the representatives of the manufacturing plant. ”
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  1. komvap
    komvap 4 December 2017 05: 25
    +3
    Feedback from users is one of the main guarantees of the release and improvement of any equipment, and especially military.
    The only question is whether the "effective managers" assigned to lead military enterprises listen to this.
    1. Finches
      Finches 4 December 2017 05: 55
      +8
      This systemic problem concerns not only the Air Force, but also other branches of the armed forces - because the main task of the military-industrial complex is to report that the money has been disbursed, and the military is not particularly asked how they need it - if anything, we’ll finish it with a file, and it’s being finalized gradually! Plus, a military acceptance, which was essentially destroyed, since no one would have accepted the lion's portion of products ... and this is not by the rules in modern realities!
      Mother Russia! No money - bad, a lot of money - even worse ... laughing
      1. okko077
        okko077 4 December 2017 10: 44
        10
        There is no system problem? The technique is adopted by state commissions, headed by representatives of the Moscow Region - the military .. Who took the Mi-28 - the same Bondarev? .... The problem is in the qualifications, in the knowledge of the military themselves. Who listened to the report of Gerasimov at the military collegium? If the chief of the General Staff is a foreman, what can we say about the technical equipment of the army. The whole report is a reference on the supply of weapons to the army. And where does the MO, and where does the GSH. At us, GSh are extras and old-timers who have survived from the mind and lagged behind life and reality forever ... And then, when we have to fight, it turns out that no one knows how to do this ... Remember the experience of the 2nd World War? But half-fool Gerasimov does not work as a foreman in the military-industrial complex. He and his general staff should develop effective methods and methods of waging a modern war .... And how do they develop? But no way !!! And how do they develop requirements for military equipment? But no way! Take what they give! And how are they responsible for their mediocrity? But no way! They are given Heroes because they don’t know how to do anything, because they don’t know how to do anything well ....
        1. astronom1973n
          astronom1973n 4 December 2017 11: 07
          +5
          Quote: okko077
          Who listened to the report of Gerasimov at the military collegium?

          If you are critical of the NGS, then your VUS is welcome. If it is not there, or it doesn’t correspond to the preparation of at least otzu, then you have not gone very far from incompetent experts on blogs.
          1. okko077
            okko077 4 December 2017 11: 45
            12
            I am not criticized, I am defeated ...
            What is happening in Syria in terms of the quality of warfare and what suddenly showed up there again? I must say right away that the military and the rear carry out their tasks, but how do they do it? Do as they can, but not as it should be!
            It turned out that our army is absolutely not ready to conduct effective modern military operations against partisans .... And the reason is not in weapons, equipment, training, and not even in lame provision, the reason is inability to wage a modern war. We simply do not have modern intelligence information systems or even something remotely similar to them .... We do not know. what the enemy does, where he is. As it moves, we have no means of providing target designation in real time, or at least in some proximity to it. And you have to send reconnaissance spotters to hell, although there is no ground component ... Generals and advisers are sitting with binoculars on the advanced Syrian army and leading as they can .... All intelligence tools are not effective and do not even allow simplified tasks in Syria to be solved the fight even against partisans .... A-50, Tu-214R, surveillance radars, UAVs, satellites are inefficient and provide information very late in the hours and days ... And their information can only be used to destroy stationary targets ... All this information is scattered , processed manually and transmitted by voice over modern communications ... There are NO Military Information Systems that process this information systematically in real time and provide real-time target designation ...
            Again the search for targets directly on the battlefield, the attack in the conditions of fire contact and guidance on the signals of spotters on the battlefield ... All this had to be long gone!
            All of this suddenly showed up again, as in the operation of 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX ... Everyone again saw the light and, most importantly, the General Staff saw the light ... But this is his main activity .... From this point of view, he does not fulfill his tasks ... to the head of the Hero for Syria instead of quietly firing ...
            1. astronom1973n
              astronom1973n 4 December 2017 11: 52
              +3
              Thank you for your thoughts, but still I asked you about your VUS.
              1. okko077
                okko077 4 December 2017 12: 25
                +2
                Please ... 461200 .. A track record, awards, diplomas and advanced degrees ... not necessary?
              2. ZVO
                ZVO 4 December 2017 12: 50
                +2
                Quote: astronom1973n
                Thank you for your thoughts, but still I asked you about your VUS.


                And what will the VUS give you?
                1. astronom1973n
                  astronom1973n 4 December 2017 13: 36
                  +1
                  I mean that at least a person who has his own specialization and who has served and has sufficient experience can criticize a profile specialist. And not so much as a person, "for example from the rear services," talks about submarines and their weapons. And besides, the commander companies cannot evaluate the activities of the division commander in terms of combat use of artillery.
                  VUS 461200 "Operation and repair of aircraft equipment of airplanes and helicopters" allows us to talk about this topic, but unfortunately there are no conclusions about the BP of units and divisions of other types and types, as well as about the development of aircraft. Moreover, we can draw conclusions about the activities of the NSS.
                  1. seos
                    seos 4 December 2017 15: 09
                    +4
                    Not the fact that we have specialists in leadership positions ....
                    Take the same Rogozin (deputy president for the military-industrial complex) .... he doesn’t understand technology, sometimes it’s blurt out that all the military are clutching their heads ....
                  2. ZVO
                    ZVO 4 December 2017 16: 19
                    +2
                    Quote: astronom1973n

                    VUS 461200 "Operation and repair of aircraft equipment of airplanes and helicopters" allows us to talk about this topic, but unfortunately there are no conclusions about the BP of units and divisions of other types and types, as well as about the development of aircraft. Moreover, we can draw conclusions about the activities of the NSS.


                    Well, for example, a person has VUS 107688F.
                    What can you say about him if he has been working in aviation for the past 20 years and as the dean of one of the departments of the Aerospace University for the last 5 years? He also regularly visits the LPI and, with enviable regularity, drives to Sary-Shagan ...

                    So this garbage is your VUS, only as a show-off: "And you ... And you ... And you can't pee on the fence ..." wink
                    1. astronom1973n
                      astronom1973n 4 December 2017 16: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: ZVO
                      So this garbage is your VUS, only as a show-off: "And you ... And you ... And you can't pee on the fence ..."

                      Where did you see the pont? According to your statement, an aviator can judge about a sailor, and a sailor about infantry without education in their specialty?
                      1. ZVO
                        ZVO 4 December 2017 16: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: astronom1973n
                        Quote: ZVO
                        So this garbage is your VUS, only as a show-off: "And you ... And you ... And you can't pee on the fence ..."

                        Where did you see the pont? According to your statement, an aviator can judge about a sailor, and a sailor about infantry without education in their specialty?


                        I will repeat it again. The man served an urgent term. Got the VUS. I called her.
                        Then, he spent the next life on the fact that more than one VUS carrier - a "hereditary officer" - will never receive in principle.
                        Just VUS and work and knowledge of the facts - can be different!
                        And no dependence.

                        It’s not for nothing that I gave an example of the VUS and the actual work.
                  3. okko077
                    okko077 4 December 2017 19: 11
                    +3
                    You can not only draw conclusions, you can even set tasks ... Where does such confidence come from? We live in the age of information media and the Internet. No one can hang noodles on his ears if he doesn’t want it ... Overboard people are only over 60 years old or just not far-off .... By the way, only the wretched people in Ukraine believe the media and the sermons of their political elite, that's why the inhabitants of Ukraine don't mind, they made themselves sheep and drive themselves to slaughter ...
                    Do not forget about this in Russia .. If someone thinks that you can hide, shut up something - in vain .. These are the realities of today ...
                    But this is lyrics. The main direction of the General Staff for several decades is the development of requirements and principles for the creation and creation of Combat Information Systems, providing information about the enemy and target designation for weapon systems in real time. And in the future, and the adjustment of all weapons systems to work in this information field and in these information bundles. This is for conventional non-nuclear weapons systems ... Use and eat on health ....
                  4. Vittt
                    Vittt 4 December 2017 20: 19
                    0
                    Listen, astronomer, take your astrolabe and finally establish why Pluto is not ours? And so - continue to observe laughing
                    So talking about VUSs is not your business, indicate your name, home address, size of underpants on the website, and then offer your suggestions in the version you have proposed.
                  5. okko077
                    okko077 4 December 2017 23: 34
                    +5
                    Let’s tell everyone how else the Soviet generals concluded agreements with the Americans to reduce the conventional weapons of the OSV-1 and OSV-2. The Americans, taking advantage of the incompetence of our stargazer (instead of stellar) negotiators, managed to impose very unfavorable conditions, which we then fulfilled ... Remember the joke about submarines in the steppes of Kazakhstan - this is not an anecdote, but a harsh retribution for our stupidity ... Americans have about a third of the carrier aircraft were in the Navy and they made an agreement in this part for themselves, so we had to dress our pilots in sea uniforms in the steppe .... Or a limitation in the regiment to 30 carriers. when we had to increase the number of regiments without changing the number of airplanes ... I had to serve in such a newly created BAP ... Imagine in the field, instead of the IBA regiment, serve the SU-24 at an unprepared airport, instead of SU-17M3 switch to the older equipment and retrain on it as new, when at the factory all the retrains themselves forgot what it is ...
                    When I wrote a research audit report for the Armed Forces Air Force Chief for armaments, I came to the conclusion with horror that the combat readiness of the regiment depends on the number of tankers, that the timing of preparation depends on the time of refueling
                    at our unprepared airfield of all this junk, assembled from the worst aircraft of 3 other regiments ....
                    When I announced this to Lieutenant General Strogov, commander of the 14th VA, he just smiled and said nothing ... We flew on his plane to Moscow for the first and last All-Army Officers Meeting in 1989. This meeting summed up the collapse of the Soviet Army and confirmed the complete detachment of the Soviet generals, both from ordinary officers and from life and combat training ... The beginning of the collapse of the USSR ... Remember this: the USSR collapsed in many respects because the highest command level of the army collapsed ... And when in 1991 the entire army of the USSR in Ukraine at the plenipotentiary congress in Vinnitsa, wanted to remain under the command of Moscow - there was not a single general who would take responsibility and make this decision and lead these troops .... Cowards and traitors all these the generals ... were, and now?
            2. Glory1974
              Glory1974 4 December 2017 20: 45
              0
              All this information is fragmented, processed manually and transmitted by voice over modern communications ... There are NO Combat Information Systems that process this information systematically in real time and provide real-time target designation ..

              In general, I agree with you. All this should have appeared at the end of the 80's. We also expected this during the Chechen wars, but did not wait.
              From this point of view, he does not fulfill his tasks ...

              But now in Syria, things have moved off the ground. TU-22 not in vain fly on the bombing. The main task is to work out the reconnaissance and target designation system in real conditions on-line.
              Probably after all, Serdyukov did not disperse many generals for nothing.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 5 December 2017 02: 12
                0
                Quote: glory1974
                Probably after all, Serdyukov did not disperse many generals for nothing.

                Of course not in vain, not in vain there the waves of shit rose there. Another thing is that it is difficult to figure out whether what has come to replace is better. There is a mess and sabotage from the side and sabotage inside. And after his departure, one more round ... So the devil himself will break his head ...
          2. stas
            stas 4 December 2017 12: 51
            +2
            An astronomer, right now, at the head of the videoconferencing, they have put an infantryman with his military-technical missile system, and you think that he has already become a pilot-sniper. And at the head of the Central Military District, they set up the nachprod, the rear officer from the cadet to the colonel general, and that this rear officer can lead in the post of district commander.
            1. astronom1973n
              astronom1973n 4 December 2017 13: 34
              +2
              Quote: stas
              An astronomer, right now, at the head of the videoconferencing, they have put an infantryman with his military-technical missile system, and you think that he has already become a pilot-sniper. And at the head of the Central Military District, they set up the nachprod, the rear officer from the cadet to the colonel general, and that this rear officer can lead in the post of district commander.

              I mean that at least a person who has his own specialization and who has served and has sufficient experience can criticize a profile specialist. And not so much as a person, "for example from the rear services," talks about submarines and their weapons. And besides, the commander companies cannot evaluate the activities of the division commander in terms of combat use of artillery.
              1. ZVO
                ZVO 4 December 2017 16: 25
                +2
                Quote: astronom1973n
                And besides, the company commander cannot evaluate the activities of the division commander in terms of the combat use of artillery.


                You are very mistaken.
                Never has the development of technology, methods of army control, or business - gone from top to bottom. All the time, ideas came up from below.
                Yes, there are few sensible scientists and in officers and managers - but brilliant ideas do not visit the general’s head, alas ...

                And yes.
                The specialist is similar to flux, its completeness is one-sided. Kozma Prutkov
            2. astronom1973n
              astronom1973n 4 December 2017 13: 42
              +1
              Quote: stas
              An astronomer, right now, at the head of the videoconferencing, they have put an infantryman with his military-technical missile system, and you think that he has already become a pilot-sniper.

              No, I don’t think so. I believe that a specialist should be at the head not only as a manager, but also with the appropriate profile education and passing all levels of service.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 5 December 2017 02: 19
                +1
                Quote: astronom1973n
                necessarily with the appropriate specialized education and passing all levels of service.

                You’ll chase two birds with one stone and you won’t catch a single one, but here you can’t count the birds from the private to the general. hi
                And a good boss is not one with many orders, and not one with "a soldier always busy," but one who was able to build a working system. The Soviet generals could not build this system, the Russian generals at the turn of 90-00 also could not. It’s impossible to judge what’s going on now, but in the future we’ll definitely find out ...
          3. Radikal
            Radikal 10 December 2017 01: 43
            +1
            And your VUS? You are welcome! smile
            1. astronom1973n
              astronom1973n 10 December 2017 06: 18
              +1
              121002, please.
        2. Finches
          Finches 4 December 2017 11: 19
          +4
          okko077

          I served under Gerasimov, met with him personally ... I think that you are wrong and, on the whole, overly emotional! hi
          1. okko077
            okko077 4 December 2017 11: 58
            +2
            Do you know who was the chairman of the sovereign commission for admission of ESU TK "Constellation M"?
            Do you know where now and how these systems work, who is responsible for it and how many billions has cost our country? ... enough?
            1. Finches
              Finches 4 December 2017 12: 13
              +2
              I know, so what? But the strict requirements of the country's top leadership - you will throw in the basket ... Nobody has yet canceled the political dictatorship of the leadership (political leadership) for the military! Defend, crumbs ... In this I see political expediency, but I do not always see military-technical thoughtfulness ... It has always been like this! It takes time to work out the System — that’s the main thing now for Russia and its army — time, political will and shortcomings will be eliminated!
              1. okko077
                okko077 4 December 2017 12: 39
                +3
                Well, how much and how will we pay for this political expediency? Well, now a little lucky, and the president will leave, and under it a bunch of cardboard durilok and will be like with the USSR? After all, the USSR was destroyed by generals, the army from above was completely rotten, otherwise the country would have stood! You can’t have a general synonymous with shit ....
                1. Finches
                  Finches 4 December 2017 12: 41
                  +1
                  That's life.... hi
                  1. okko077
                    okko077 4 December 2017 13: 02
                    +1
                    But they are waiting and they are ready, and we must remember this ...
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 4 December 2017 13: 04
                      +1
                      Russia's unpreparedness for war is, unfortunately, its natural state! Because, unlike the Anglo-Saxons, we are not aggressors ... True, our unpreparedness for war has not helped anyone especially! hi
                      1. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 5 December 2017 02: 25
                        0
                        our luck is not infinite, and each time the loss figures are more and more ....
    2. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 4 December 2017 05: 56
      +4
      neither the "effective" nor the "past" or "old" managers have ever listened, because in order to listen, you need a system for analytics, where people will bring problems, solutions and ideas, making it all as clean as possible and get paid for it . No one will do anything for free. Is there such a system? no! therefore, there is no analytics in the field of technology, and without analytics, progress will not work. Yes, there are all sorts of magazines and websites, only they pay there not for analytical calculations, but for writing. Yes, there are research institutes, but they are good at expertise, and when they are forced to do analytics, they get the same scribble but littered with useless scientific rubbish. There are all sorts of "professors", but they are paid a salary for training, not an analyst, and she is a hack for that ... Well, engineers and scientists don’t have time to process information cars, they are design and checkmate. they are busy with modeling, and not analytics, and therefore are fixated on some garbage instead of really correcting something important and necessary.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 4 December 2017 06: 14
        +3
        Well, engineers and scientists do not have time to process information cars

        But it should be. Well, not the 60 years of the last century, where it was prescribed "to endure the hardships of service". The most sophisticated technique in the hands of pilots and drivers. Basic amenities should be. Sitting in a cramped cockpit of 6-8 hours, controlling equipment, and even in an uncomfortable chair, is not pleasant enough. And first of all, glasses for helicopter pilots had to be made. Who would not know, like Bondarev, that turntables operate at low altitudes and often at night.
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 4 December 2017 20: 40
          +2
          Quote: Wedmak
          Well, engineers and scientists do not have time to process information cars

          But it should be.

          Quote: Wedmak
          But it should be.

          it shouldn’t be, the engineer spends most of the time on design, not analytics. Engineers are engaged in engineering and industrial analysis (design with reference to production capacities), Scientists with expertise and its scientific justification, Military are engaged in military-practical analysis (how to apply, or how to correct deficiencies due to proper application). And the analyst’s task is to collect, purify, structure and balance information thereby uniting engineers, scientists and military together, removing from them an unnecessary information load.
          For example, imagine that there is a military, ordinary soldier, and he faced some kind of problem, and came up with a solution to it, this solution will save millions of rubles. But only this soldier will not run around the ministries with his idea, because he will spend his strength, time and nerves, and he won’t get any benefit for his work. And he will not pay 100-150 thousand rubles for a patent on his idea (plus more taxes annually), because the result will be the same. And if there was a system for analytics, he would describe his idea in it, then the analysts would analyze this information, if they couldn’t do it themselves, would ask the engineers / scientists / military for advice, already the analysts would draw up everything and provide information where necessary, and in the end, the soldier who came up with a solution to the problem would receive a small percentage of the money saved by the state (the amount directly depends on the level of elaboration of the idea). If outside help were needed, these specialists would also have received a certain amount from the savings.
          Or here’s another example, there is a problem, it’s basically nothing, but the engineers didn’t even think about it (they are busy with other problems), and everyone is tormented with it because no one has access to the chief engineer and his technical specifications. But there would be an analytical system, people would describe the essence of the problem and get a purely symbolic sum for it, analysts would collect this information together and put it into the system with the mark "search for a solution to the problem" and then a third-party engineer could go in and solve this problem having received a certain normal amount for this. And when the chief engineer is released, he will apply a ready-made solution to the problem.

          In fact, there are a lot of similar jambs when the former do not know, the latter cannot, the others do not want, and the fourth know and want but cannot.
      2. ZVO
        ZVO 4 December 2017 07: 16
        +2
        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
        Well, engineers and scientists don’t have time to process information cars, they are design and mat. they are busy with modeling, and not analytics, and therefore are fixated on some garbage instead of really correcting something important and necessary.


        In fact, the principles of ergonomics and technical design are an integral part of design.
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik 4 December 2017 09: 55
          +2
          Quote: ZVO
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          Well, engineers and scientists don’t have time to process information cars, they are design and mat. they are busy with modeling, and not analytics, and therefore are fixated on some garbage instead of really correcting something important and necessary.


          In fact, the principles of ergonomics and technical design are an integral part of design.

          We never had ergonomics even in cars, right here, on the website, many praise KAMAZ, which has become the main transport of the army. Life made me and I had to get behind the wheel of this car. I think whoever drove knows how the brake and gas pedals are spaced apart, with no habit you can press the brake instead of gas, but the fact that the steering wheel is offset relative to the seat is generally a fairy tale. Of course it’s a matter of habit, but when you have to change to another car (at work) a day, this is problematic.
          1. urman
            urman 4 December 2017 11: 04
            +3
            Quote: lis-ik
            many praise KAMAZ,

            Kamaz is a stool with a wheel.
            I already wrote here, we were transferred to Kamaz at the company of pilot-drivers, so they immediately left, health is more expensive.
            1. Mestny
              Mestny 4 December 2017 12: 02
              -1
              These are half measures!
              You must leave the country, change your name, gender.
              1. stas
                stas 4 December 2017 13: 28
                +1
                This is what you will offer to DAMA with its capitalist ministers. The people will thank you.
              2. urman
                urman 4 December 2017 17: 33
                0
                You tell me on the track. I watch you probably from the boat. So I say, the hands in the boats and the brains are in the wrong place.
                1. urman
                  urman 4 December 2017 19: 16
                  0
                  DRIVERS Behind whom are they taking? The personnel.
                  Or in the kungs, my equipment, he slightly slipped and derailed
                  SURNAME? floor? THIS YOU ARE CHANGE NOT SERVING!
          2. PSih2097
            PSih2097 4 December 2017 12: 23
            0
            Quote: lis-ik
            here, on the site, many praise KAMAZ, which has become the main transport of the army

            You still "shishigu" remember ... laughing
          3. Finches
            Finches 4 December 2017 14: 24
            +4
            I, by virtue of my VUS (and I look here, they ask me to indicate, so I had 121000,121300, 521300, 521100,521500 ...) laughing and connected specifics - I was driving KAMAZ, Ural-375, GAZ-66, ZIL-131, but the diesel Ural-4320 became my favorite automobile base for the hardware! Himself not a driver, but KAMAZ is really inferior to this Urals!
        2. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 4 December 2017 20: 57
          0
          Quote: ZVO
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          Well, engineers and scientists don’t have time to process information cars, they are design and mat. they are busy with modeling, and not analytics, and therefore are fixated on some garbage instead of really correcting something important and necessary.


          In fact, the principles of ergonomics and technical design are an integral part of design.

          Well, let's take that simpler, but related to ergonomics, let's say the form, and let's say you are an engineer in shape, and now there are 10 million people wearing your uniform, some itches, others presses, others hang and hang. And such people are 3 million out of 10. And here you have 3 million letters of complaint, of which only a thousand are useful (try to find them again lol ), I remind you an engineer, will you engineer a form or read letters? That's it! But you, as an engineer, may need third-party information, for example, data of all soldiers (height, weight, length \ width of arms, legs, fingers, etc.) and all this in digital form to identify the main groups by size. And if you add information about who, where and how does it serve? And if you consider that this information is needed not only for you (an engineer in uniform) but also for others, for example, those who make diving, parachute equipment, seats for pilots, drivers, and landing troops. And here again analysts are needed who will work with information. Well, or you can do without analysts, but then everything will be "tyap-blunder."
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 5 December 2017 08: 21
            0
            And to allocate a couple of people for this business is not fate? The analyst, the analyst, namely the engineer, has to figure out how to solve a specific issue. This is the time. If the question is located in several planes, people who are competent in their field are gathered for this and solve the problem. And it doesn’t matter what anyone itches, hangs or hangs.
            The analyst can provide statistics, conclusions, but will never see the real situation. Do not sit in the 6 chair for hours working intensively with devices. Named therefore sent designers or involved directly to the troops. To look, to explain to his fingers what’s wrong.
            And so look, many analysts got divorced, everyone knows what to do, but for some reason they don’t know how.
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 5 December 2017 20: 35
              0
              Quote: Wedmak
              And so look, many analysts got divorced, everyone knows what to do, but for some reason they don’t know how.

              Technology Analysts DO NOT EXIST! there are ANALYTICS (for they think this place) and there are PSEUDOanalysts. To conduct analytics, we need an information environment that fulfills a number of conditions, primarily storage, search, sorting, filtering and updating information. secondly, it is cleaning information from informational garbage. At the moment, there are only trading and financial analysts, because as soon as they have information systems i.e. "exchanges".
              Quote: Wedmak
              And to allocate a couple of people for this business is not fate?

              They are also distinguished by such factors, but there is ONLY ZERO FROM THEM, well, think for yourself, here you are a pilot, and today you "were uncomfortable when approaching the target because of A, B, and C". So you return to the base in the evening, sit relaxing with your colleagues and complain to them about this problem, and they support you saying "yes, we had this too." And then after three months an engineer comes to you and asks "what to fix?". And you have already forgotten about that problem a hundred times, and if anyone remembers you will not be able to explain what the trouble is, because a lot of time has passed.
              And do not tell me about the "military representatives", "representatives of the plant" and "big bosses." This is such a quagmire in which a huge number of bright ideas are drowning ...
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 6 December 2017 06: 15
                0
                Of course, I am not a pilot, and I don’t know all the subtleties ... But what prevents me from writing a report after the departure about the flaws or incorrect operation of the systems? Or for that matter, in your notebook - you will come and show the engineer will tell. Well this is not a smartphone and not an iron, the life of the pilot depends on this technique. It’s hard to find half an hour to write your impressions in letters?
                I do not understand this logic - the car is new, the stump will be clear, and you will fly on it ... and forget about these shortcomings? Hard to believe.
                If there is a problem with the transfer of this information to the KB, you must change the system.
                1. ProkletyiPirat
                  ProkletyiPirat 6 December 2017 08: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  If there is a problem with the transfer of this information to the KB, you must change the system.

                  So I’m talking about something, there is a problem with the transfer of information, we need a full-fledged analytical information environment for analytics in the field of technology.
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  But what prevents you from writing a report after the departure about the flaws or incorrect operation of the systems? Or for that matter, in your notebook - you will come and show the engineer will tell.

                  Earlier, I wrote that for analytics this is paramount:
                  1) information storage (notebook and report are suitable)
                  2) information search (notebook and report are not effective because everything is manual)
                  3) sorting information (same as "2")
                  4) information filtering, or more precisely, a complex multi-level automatic processing of information according to pre-created algorithms, that is, the creation of filters (paper and notebooks do not roll)
                  5) updating information (the same as "4")
                  And if you add that all these notebooks and pieces of paper are constantly lost, distorted, have a damn cloud of information garbage, etc. etc. then ultimately the practical utility tends to zero. But there is also a “broken phone”, “a person’s reluctance to fill out material for“ thank you “”, “opinion authority” and many other problems.
      3. Victor N
        Victor N 4 December 2017 09: 24
        +1
        There is a problem about the solution of which was not thought much before. But talking about the complete lack of analytics is a bust. It is necessary to calmly correct the situation.
        The professor is a pedagogical title, not a scientist, although classes in science are also strongly encouraged.
    3. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 06: 05
      +2
      And at the expense of seats on the TU-22M3 there are pilots on the site and the SSI did not write anything bad. And the equipment on them is definitely old but they are undergoing modernization. Maybe as usual, "MONEY WANTED" How many people have so many opinions. One fat another thin, etc. etc. hi
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 4 December 2017 06: 16
        +1
        And at the expense of the seats on the TU-22M3, there are pilots here on the site and the SSI did not write anything bad.

        Like nothing good. In general, I don’t remember talking about the comfort of armchairs or bad night vision goggles.
        1. Vadim Zhivov
          Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 07: 23
          0
          We can wait for them and write it off. It would be interesting to read specialists ... hi
          1. novel66
            novel66 4 December 2017 10: 31
            +3
            Golovanov’s “long-range bomber” was about how the Tu-22 came to the army. they didn’t want him in the army and there was no dialogue. so it happened
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 4 December 2017 10: 57
              +2
              how tu-xnumx came to the army

              Tu-22 and Tu-22М are completely different planes.
              1. novel66
                novel66 4 December 2017 11: 00
                +4
                I'm somewhere in the know, but the problem is systemic
                1. Vadim Zhivov
                  Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 12: 25
                  0
                  Do TU-22 t catapult isn't it down would you like to down ?? There at the Ministry of Health, everything else is different; the plane itself is just plain fun Tupolev to save
    4. EvilLion
      EvilLion 4 December 2017 09: 15
      0
      And in Soviet times, the same UGs were also delivered by "effective managers"? The same T-64, as one of the most striking examples. Or the famous crude aircraft with a wet pilot, the designer of Sukhoi. Or “Kayra” on the MiG-27K, which was never completed, was eventually replaced in the production with a simplified system.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny 4 December 2017 12: 04
        +1
        Let you vote them in plenty, about how bad things are with us. Well this is not the Crimean bridge, there is such an occasion.
  2. Wedmak
    Wedmak 4 December 2017 06: 05
    +7
    Bondarev’s colleagues in military aviation are puzzled why he spoke about this problem publicly only now, becoming a senator.

    Exactly ... Why Bondarev, once so smart, did not give at least the start to this return channel “pilots-defense industry complex”? I won’t believe that he didn’t have such opportunities. If the problems were systemic, he knew about them very well, well, he would have pushed at least some of the changes !!! It is difficult to believe that there was no money for comfortable seats for Tu-22M3 pilots during its modernization. This is not an aiming and navigation system that requires working out for years - select one side, put a new one and collect feedback. Moreover, the carcasses fly to Syria almost every other day.
    1. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 07: 26
      +3
      Why did he just speak now ????? A new high chair and a piece of cake lit up hi
  3. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint 4 December 2017 06: 17
    +5
    Well, I do not believe in such statements. generally freaks out when even small rubbish is taken out of the hut. Of course there are always troubles. but for the whole country, don’t understand why ... I don’t know this person, but it’s somehow small. He could easily convey this at his meeting at any meeting in the Moscow Region, and now they often. There were forums relating to the defense industry to which even Putin regularly travels. in my opinion, uncle PR on the negative.
    1. MadCat
      MadCat 4 December 2017 08: 22
      +5
      Quote: cariperpaint
      Well, I do not believe in such statements. generally freaks out when even small rubbish is taken out of the hut. Of course there are always troubles. but so for the whole country do not understand why ...

      Well, yes, those who have no analogous hoffwire cannot have shortcomings, all traitors and generally blameless ones. Russia’s electronics say, “it’s approaching its foreign counterparts” (read about 30 years ago abroad) and it’s so clear that the quality of this technology was also not secret. The pride of the subgenus, which has suffered, I think is a good price for correcting the rubbish that was brought into the army, and here who accepted this technique is a good question.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 4 December 2017 08: 39
        +1
        Before you criticize and sprinkle poisonous saliva, separate the flaws from the "rubbish brought into the troops."
        The technique is excellent, in terms of characteristics it is really often unparalleled. The question is different: ergonomics for operating this equipment are not up to par.
        1. shvn
          shvn 4 December 2017 10: 02
          +3
          And you think MadCat understood what you are writing about? He doesn’t care, the worse, the more pleasant ...
      2. cariperpaint
        cariperpaint 4 December 2017 11: 19
        0
        and what does it have to do with it? there is simply an internal ethics from which a person has departed for his own interests. for everything else, there are pros.
  4. Chichikov
    Chichikov 4 December 2017 06: 44
    +4
    Western politicians, leaving their posts, suddenly begin to understand Russia! It looks like a similar case here - parliamentary immunity, automatically, "opens eyes" to problems.
    1. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 07: 27
      +1
      And who would do what to him as with the commander-in-chief ????
  5. Nix1986
    Nix1986 4 December 2017 07: 46
    +4
    After a fight, they don’t wave their underpants. Where was his criticism when he was on the profile chair ?! The author correctly indicated that he was afraid to get a hat.
    1. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 08: 37
      0
      The hat is on the thief ... The movie is at home alone hi
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 4 December 2017 08: 42
      0
      The author correctly indicated that he was afraid to get a hat.

      From whom and for what? Is he responsible for the supply of high-quality equipment? His business is to control these deliveries and if they are contrary to the feedback of the pilots, and the defense industry does not respond to these reviews - it is his word that should be significant.
      1. Nix1986
        Nix1986 4 December 2017 09: 17
        +1
        I am not aware of the job descriptions of his previous post, but I doubt very much that he did not receive information about low-quality components while in the high post of the military, but received only now as a senator. There may be various reasons for which he did not raise hype then, but in any case, personal interest is in 1st place (fly away from your place, get a reprimand, etc.).
  6. Altona
    Altona 4 December 2017 08: 51
    +1
    Quote: Finches
    This systemic problem concerns not only the Air Force, but also other branches of the armed forces - because the main task of the military-industrial complex is to report that the money has been disbursed, and the military is not particularly asked how they need it - if anything, we’ll finish it with a file, and modify, gradually!

    -----------------------------------
    This is generally the global problem of our country - lack of feedback. As a result, below people are tormented, above the bosses are bronzed and do not see the situation on the ground and in the field. And the feedback should be tough. The designer and the manufacturer themselves must feel how the operator or pilot works on their equipment there.
    1. captain
      captain 4 December 2017 09: 21
      0
      Quote: Altona
      Quote: Finches
      This systemic problem concerns not only the Air Force, but also other branches of the armed forces - because the main task of the military-industrial complex is to report that the money has been disbursed, and the military is not particularly asked how they need it - if anything, we’ll finish it with a file, and modify, gradually!

      -----------------------------------
      This is generally the global problem of our country - lack of feedback. As a result, below people are tormented, above the bosses are bronzed and do not see the situation on the ground and in the field. And the feedback should be tough. The designer and the manufacturer themselves must feel how the operator or pilot works on their equipment there.

      Please do not be offended, but this is far from the main problem. The main problem with us is that no one is responsible for anything. And another not-so-small problem is the problem, one of the commenters definitely noticed it; money is mastered, not spent on something.
      1. Vadim Zhivov
        Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 13: 50
        0
        On the F-35 there are also problems with the seats and the pilot’s weight, but I don’t think that they are made specifically for each pilot ... hi
  7. EvilLion
    EvilLion 4 December 2017 09: 12
    +3
    As practice shows, nothing works ideally, especially in the army, which has been sleeping for years, and then the war begins, even sluggish, and it turns out that the problems are here, the problems are there, it doesn't work at all. What is new here Bondarev said, I don’t see at all. Everything was exactly the same in Soviet times, and so are the partners in the political process. In this regard, Putin’s “Syrian adventure” is already useful because when you have a squadron, or even two, of cars, and you are busy with scheduled flights for which you roll out a couple of cars, and once a month you arrange PvP 2 on 2, then operational problems are easy they’re hiding, they’ll always roll out the link, and the pilots will have no problems with the 6-8 hours in the cockpit during large exercises every six months. But when you have 4 cars and each one makes 1-3 flights a day, and they really bomb something, then the problems are exposed.

    They flew on Tu-95 almost like in WWII, they didn’t even bother to make a toilet on a monster that can be in the air for 24 hours. Well, at least not in fur sheepskin coats and fur boots. This is the army, and the soldier is not a man.

    Revealed - eliminate. As for the Mi-8 and Ka-52, which are also completely flown only by the question, but what about night flights?
    1. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 15: 14
      0
      THANKS I thought in the army no longer as in the USSR hi
  8. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 4 December 2017 09: 27
    0
    Well, at least someone voiced the problems at a high level.
  9. lukewarm
    lukewarm 4 December 2017 09: 49
    +1
    Interestingly, why did the testers not correct? Or do they not fly at night? No such flights in the program?
    Still, the article mentions the Ka-50, which, unlike the 28th, is newer in concept. There are no problems with avionics and night vision? If so, then why not unify. It’s clear that everything is impossible, but glasses?
  10. Falcond
    Falcond 4 December 2017 11: 39
    0
    In our country, the supreme commanders demand that the main military get light on parades with new equipment, the main military take it without looking to fulfill the order from above .... as a result, the grandmother’s enterprises were recaptured, we parade at the parades ... but in fact all modern technology: it's beautiful bodies stretched over old chassis with old functionality!
  11. Falcond
    Falcond 4 December 2017 11: 54
    +1
    This is the unshakable principle of the entire army system! Even on the “lift” command, the fighters first fall into action, and then tie the shoelaces, fill the form .., thereby spending even more time on performing these operations while standing in an uncomfortable position than they could have done before building ... And so in everything! ... Ie. diligence is more important than correctness, result, and sometimes even common sense!
    And then it turns out that Armata stalls, the pilot does not see, and PAK-FA generally flies on old engines ...
    And this is in the minds of the military: it is better on time once, than then correctly and as many as three!
  12. prior
    prior 4 December 2017 12: 02
    +1
    Oh, it seems to me that some do not finish ...
    And who is interested in all sorts of topics and OKRs signed, "bad" helicopters in service took ....
    and now "the pilot does not see anything, the pilot does not hear anything!"
    Or maybe at that time the “Bondarevs” were building cottages in the sections of the cottage, and not before the acceptance ...
  13. viktorch
    viktorch 4 December 2017 13: 35
    0
    Wah, they write interesting things, but during the trial operation it means there was nothing of this, everything was perfectly visible, whether this same bonder put his signatures without looking, under the acts of acceptance, and now it means telling the truth,
    the main problem of the military - these are such coopers who don't really do their job, and then they throw out terrible revelations.

    ps I don’t understand why the commander in chief! if you knew about the problems did not organize their solution? does he have little power? or maybe it was just a poher, it’s right here they write building a cottage, for himself and the whole family he was busy no other way.
  14. iouris
    iouris 4 December 2017 14: 21
    0
    The question remains what the applicant understands by “electronics”.
  15. Strashila
    Strashila 4 December 2017 14: 24
    0
    All the bosses grow wiser and see clearly ... when they receive the ex prefix to their previous position. There are questions about the technology ... solve, load the designers and production.
  16. BAI
    BAI 4 December 2017 14: 31
    +1
    but no one but specialists knows in what difficult conditions the pilots work in these Tu-22M3, how uncomfortable the seat is, how limited the size of the cockpit is, what uncomfortable head restraints

    As far as I could see the cabins of the Su-24, Su-25, MiG-25, MiG-31 are also uncomfortable (in my unenlightened opinion), but they should not be in long. And you have to sit in the Tu-22 for a long time, this is really a problem. You can live in the cockpit of IL-76.
    1. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 15: 34
      0
      I thought in your zoo everything is not so good that the Americans f-35 torment so hi thank you hi
  17. asiat_61
    asiat_61 4 December 2017 15: 02
    +1
    ... Where, you used to be, kissing with whom ... After all, not yesterday a problem arose? Or is there something that is not being decided without public discussion?
    1. Vadim Zhivov
      Vadim Zhivov 4 December 2017 15: 36
      0
      And thank you... hi
  18. Tsoy
    Tsoy 4 December 2017 15: 27
    +1
    “Even in peacetime, if you look through these glasses at night on a settlement, everything has arrived. We need to think of something so that the sources of the flashes are extinguished, and the scattered night light, on the contrary, increases. The threshold of sensitivity below should be higher, and for the upper level - lower. But, unfortunately, industry does not always respond well to requests from pilots, ”the expert complained.



    Ummm .... IV generation EOP will help. How long ago ....

    In the Joint Institute of Physics of Semiconductors of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a fourth-generation image intensifier [6] technology has also been developed. Instead of the traditional microchannel plate, it uses a semiconductor dynode, which operates “on the chamber” by an electron beam from the photocathode of the image converter tube. According to the developers, this makes it possible to obtain a high signal-to-noise ratio and considerable protection from the effects of light interference with a durability of an image intensifier up to 50000 hours.
    1. Dedall
      Dedall 4 December 2017 22: 08
      +1
      If you think about this in a practical plane, then such a problem has long been solved by our eastern neighbors in hearing aids. The first models, if anyone knows, sinned by reinforcing everything and as a result, human speech in the headphones was like a cannonade. Now they reinforce only the band of the sound spectrum of human speech. And does it a microchip with a pin size. And with the video you can do something similar, for example, using the Kalman method. That's just for this we need to study for a long time, and we no longer have such specialists. That is the main sadness.
  19. NN52
    NN52 4 December 2017 22: 54
    +8
    About Bondarev, I have long said everything .... Add nothing more ...
    With his statements now, he is trying to cover up his future ..
    I hope for this “soft” post about him, I won’t get a warning, as for the previous ones about him ...
  20. turbris
    turbris 6 December 2017 11: 28
    0
    I just did not understand the general excitement about the tip of the iceberg, the problem was raised by Bondarev himself, and it was he, as the “customer”, who was responsible for ensuring that a normal SUV appeared on the helicopter. Tests in Syria showed its shortcomings, they will be eliminated - do not hesitate, it is with his publication that Bondarev is trying to speed up this matter. And why are some so excited, either "the best in the world", or "rubbish worthless", calm down, this technique is being finalized throughout the entire period of operation and much will still change.