Military Review

Stalin was different in that war.

79
Stalin was different in that war.By the end of the Great Patriotic War, all the leaders of the allied states - Churchill, Roosevelt, de Gaulle - highly appreciated the role of Stalin in the war, their teeth were admired and put in the example of Hitler and Goebbels. The whole world knows what Churchill said after the death of Joseph Vissarionovich: "Stalin accepted Russia with a plow, and left it with an atomic bomb." I note that by 5 March 1953, preparations for testing the hydrogen bomb exploded 4 a month after the leader’s death were completed, and full-scale work was carried out on the P-7 rocket, with the help of which Yuri Gagarin was launched into space all domestic manned ships.


Alas, for half a century russophobes of all stripes have argued that Stalin only brought harm to the Red Army in 1941 – 1945. He de beheaded the Red Army, he de concluded the Moscow Treaty of 1939, and thus unleashed the Second World War, he de ignored the warnings of intelligence officers about the time of the outbreak of the war.

DEMANDING ARMY

In two years (1938–1939), the Red Army received 158 thousand commanders, political workers, and other military specialists. In the three pre-war years (1939–1941), 48 thousand people graduated from military schools, and 80 thousand graduated from advanced training courses. In the first half of 1941, another 70 thousand officers were sent from schools and academies to the troops. In total, as of January 1, 1941, the payroll of the commanding officers of the army and fleet amounted to 579 people. In addition, 581 thousand reserve officers were trained in four years (from 1937 to 1940).

Arrested in the same 1937 – 1938 years (according to different authors) were no more than 10 thousand commanders and political workers.

The very modest lack of command personnel (13% on 1 in January 1941) was not at all due to repression, but a threefold increase in the number and huge increase in the technical equipment of the Armed Forces in three years.

After lying to the thesis that in the 1937 year, "the very best were shot, and medals and rogues were appointed to replace them." Judging by such a formal criterion as the level of education, then from 1937 to 1941 a year the number of officers with higher and secondary military education not only did not decrease, but doubled from 164 to 385 thousand people. On posts from the battalion commander and above, the proportion of commanders without military education was only 0,1% on the eve of the war. Among the commanders of divisions, as of 1 in January, 1941, higher military education had 40%, secondary military education - 60%. Among the corps commanders respectively 52 and 48%.

Another question is what was the "efficiency" of the then military education, if the Military Academy. Frunze in 1920-x - the beginning of 1930-s received commanders with two classes of parochial school. Unfortunately, in these words there is no exaggeration. It was with such a “education” that the People’s Commissar of Defense Voroshilov rose to the very top of the military hierarchy, and Zhukov, who replaced him as Commissar Tymoshenko, Commander of the Kiev Military District, and Kirponos who succeeded him in that post. Against this background, the predecessor of Zhukov simply looks indecently intelligent at the post of Chief of the General Staff Meretskov - he had four classes of a rural school and an evening school for adults in Moscow.

"The genius strategist" Marshal Tukhachevsky graduated only from an infantry school and never studied anywhere else, but preferred to teach others. Marshal Blucher graduated from 1 (one!) Class parish school and nowhere else he studied.

As for the People's Commissar of Heavy Industry, Sergo Ordzhonikidze, and his deputy, Ivan Petrovich Pavlunovsky, they did not finish military schools either. Ordzhonikidze in 1901 – 1905 studied at the medical attendant school and, apparently, did not finish it. But Pavlunovsky was nowhere else, except in the parish school, did not study. But Pavlunovsky was also in charge of the mobilization department of the Red Army. These glorious dilettantes in 1920 – 1930's were decided by the fate of the Red Army.

I note that every civil war is a disaster for the army, whose leadership includes bawlers, "ideologues" and "partisans." Recall that in the 1789 – 1793 years, several thousand lawyers, grooms, artists, and the like got into the generals in France. They spoke at rallies and meetings, successfully killing their own citizens in Vendée, Brittany, Lyon and Marseille. But during the siege of the heavily fortified fortress of Toulon, three commanders changed in a month. And here, on a war council among the revolutionary generals, a puny 24-year-old captain with an olive face squeezed through. “Here is Toulon,” he jabbed his finger at Fort Egillet, 8 km from the city. "And the guy is not strong in geography," the generals laughed. Appreciated the guy only Commissioner Augustin Robespierre, brother of the all-powerful dictator.

Toulon fell in one day. And throughout Europe they marched large battalions led by a “small corporal”. But among his marshals there was not a single revolutionary general. Generals of the 1789 – 1793 model were executed, expelled from the country, sent to their estates grabbed during the revolutionary years, or, at best, held administrative positions in the military ministry. And the capitals of Europe were taken by lieutenants and private soldiers who went on the attack on Fort Egillet and on Arkolsky Bridge.

So it all happened again in Russia. The elimination of the “heroes of the Civil War” was not a disaster, but a blessing for the Red Army.

Stalin PRASHAL WAR

Khrushchev and others lied shamelessly that Stalin had to be awakened in order to report the start of the war. Well, then he de 7 days did not take anyone, locked himself in the country. But let's take a look at the logbook of individuals accepted by Stalin: June 21 1941 from 18.27 to 23.00 he accepted the 13 man. Beria was in Stalin's office from 19.05 to 23.00, Voroshilov from 19.05 to 23.00. Molotov never left Stalin’s office from 18.23 to 23.00.

Well, 22 Jun. Stalin from 5.45 (!) To 16.45 accepted 29 people, among whom almost the entire leadership of the USSR.

23 June in 3.20 (!) Entered Molotov and Voroshilov, after 5 minutes - Beria, after another 5 minutes - Tymoshenko. A total of 21 visitor was accepted. The latter was released in 1.25, that is, already 24 June.

Anyone can compare these data with the diary of Nicholas II in the first weeks of the First World War.

Stalin received several dozen reports of Soviet intelligence officers with the dates of the beginning of the war from 15 in May to July 1941, among them were June 22.

In terms of military strategy, the plan of Barbarossa was an adventure. During the nine weeks of the fighting, the Wehrmacht was supposed to reach the Arkhangelsk – Kazan line, and then along the Volga - to Astrakhan.

For a moment, let us assume that the Germans, if not for nine weeks, but by the end of the year, took this line. But even then it would not be the end of the war, but only its new phase. There, the Germans would have rested against the "Eastern Wall of Stalin" (my name), passing through Gorky, Kazan, Saratov, Stalingrad and Astrakhan. Already in September 1941, the construction of fortifications began there. By the end of 1941, 39, thousands of fire installations, 5,7, thousand kilometers of non-explosive anti-tank barriers, 15, thousand dugouts, were built there. The volume of earthworks amounted to 78 million cubic meters. m

I note that the construction of the URs (fortified areas) proceeded not only along the Volga, but also along the Sura River. Let me remind you that Sura flows from south to north parallel to the Volga at a distance of 300 – 450 km over 1200 km, and the UR on its banks was covered by the Volga cities of Cheboksary, Kazan, Ulyanovsk and Kuibyshev.

On the territory of the Chuvash Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, the Sura border ran along Sura along the line of the village of Zassursky of the Yadrinsky district - the village of Pandikovo of the Krasnochetaysky district - the village of Sursky Maidan of the Alatyrsky district - Alatyr to the border with the Ulyanovsk region. Tens of thousands of residents of the Chuvash ASSR took part in the construction of the building. Sura frontier was built in 45 days.

By the resolution of the State Defense Committee and the order of the People's Commissar of the Navy of 23 in October 1941, the training detachment of the ships of the Volga River was reorganized into the Volga flotilla. And on November 6 of the same year the composition, organization and basing of its forces were determined.

Planned to form six teams of river ships with inclusion in their composition 54 gunboats, 30 armored, 90-trawlers boats, patrol boats and 60 boats - marine hunters and 6 squadrons (36 aircraft), 6 separate battalions of marines, 6 divisions torpedo boats. These organizational arrangements were scheduled for completion by April 1 of 1942.

So in a fantastic way out of the Wehrmacht on the Volga from Gorky to Astrakhan, the Germans would have found a powerful line of defense.

Hitler had a perfectly reasonable alternative to ending England in 1941, to take control of the entire Mediterranean basin, including the Middle East and Turkey. By the way, the latter could have been done without Churchill's capitulation. The Luftwaffe and the kriegsmarine could have put England on the brink of collapse, interrupting the maritime message across the Atlantic. And in the spring of 1942, having much greater potential than in June of 1941, Hitler could start a war or negotiate with the USSR.

The main reason for the failures of the Red Army in the first months of the war was that the German army mobilized in August-September 1939, and even defeated the army of a dozen European states in one and a half years, faced an unmobilized Red Army not ready for war.

So why didn't Stalin start mobilizing in May 1941? He hoped for Hitler’s common sense, that he would start the war in the 1942 year, and in every way he tried to pull it off.

Recall that in 1914, Germany declared war on Russia precisely in response to the start of the mobilization of its army.

Therefore, Stalin led the hidden mobilization. In late May - early June, 1941 was partially mobilized under the guise of training reserve fees, which made it possible to summon over 800 thousands of people used to replenish divisions located mainly in the west of the country. From the middle of May, the advance of four armies (16, 19, 21 and 22) and one infantry corps to the line of the Dnieper River and Western Dvina began from the internal military districts. From the middle of June, a latent rearrangement of the formations of the most western border districts began: under the guise of entering the camps, more than half of the divisions that made up the reserve of these districts were set in motion. From 14 to 19, June, the commands of the western border districts were instructed to withdraw front-line controls to field command posts. From mid-June, leave has been canceled for personnel.

I found a curious, top-secret document from 16 June 1941 about the transfer of Degtyarev machineguns to western Urs: Degtyarev machineguns due to an emergency supply of internal districts, 2700 thousand Degtyaryov machine guns and Xm Max from the stocks of the Far Eastern front. The latter have been ordered to return to the Far East in the fourth quarter of 3 of the year - no one will fight with Russia in the winter.

It seems that many commanders of Western districts ignored the instructions of the Center. For example, an order was not executed to disguise airfields, disperse airplanes, and take out families of commanders for a summer holiday.

Even in 1940, Stalin literally became furious: “Our air camps in western districts resemble gypsy camps!” Indeed, in the western regions of Ukraine and Belarus, where there were relatively good living conditions, wives, children, mother-in-law, aunt, etc. rushed in crowds. The rhetorical question: did the children run to the air bases of the Luftwaffe in the General Government?

Why did orders “not to give in to provocations” go from Moscow to the border districts?

What could be a provocation - synchronous with a massive attack of the Wehrmacht or spaced in time for several hours or days? To be afraid of synchronous provocation is complete idiocy. Then there is the option of provocation, which gives Germany a reason to declare himself a victim of aggression and start a war. However, Hitler had long ago made lightning attacks without any provocations - Norway, Holland, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Greece, etc.

So why did the Führer now have to deprive himself of the surprise factor for at least a few hours and allow the USSR to bring the troops into full combat readiness, start general mobilization, etc.? Surely and without provocation, Goebbels could not explain to the Germans the reasons for the attack on the USSR?

So, maybe, a handful of German officers without a leadership sanction would have decided to provoke, in order to start a war with the USSR? Alas, it is excluded. By June 22 a general conspiracy against Hitler had already taken shape, but his goal was not to expand the war, but to eliminate the Fuhrer and make peace.

WAR WITH POLAND ... NOT END

Few people know that by June 22 the USSR was already in a state of war with ... Poland. When 17 September 1939, part of the Red Army crossed the Polish border, the Polish government already dragged into Romania and was more puzzled in finding a new permanent residence. Declaring war on the USSR to Polish ministers was not enough, the main thing is to get more zolotishka.

But 18 December 1939, the emigrant government of Vladislav Sikorsky, formed by the Anglo-French in October 1939, in France, with full observance of all formalities, declared the USSR a war. And, I will tell you a secret, since peace with Poland is not concluded, formally Russia is still in a state of war with Poland, which is now considered the successor of the emigre government of Sikorsky.

And in early 1941, the Soviet government received information from the NKVD that the Craiova Army was preparing a major provocation on the Soviet-German border. Imagine a breakthrough of hundreds, or even thousands of armed people, dressed in German uniforms, across our border. The battle would begin using artillery and aviation. Our planes would begin to shoot down German planes heading to the conflict area to clarify the situation, and, as they say, "let's go." By the way, Polish politicians and generals openly blurted out their dreams in 1940-1941 to set off Germany and the USSR so that “only tails remain from both.”

It was this provocation that the Soviet leadership feared in June 1941. Well, if a liberal waists away, this is supposedly frivolous, so let him take an interest in Operation Storm, launched by the London government in 1944. According to him, the units of the Home Army had to occupy large cities during the retreat of the Germans, creating civil administrations there subordinated to London, and to meet the Soviet troops in the role of masters, that is, the legitimate authorities. To implement the plan, it was planned to attract up to 80 thousands of members of the Home Army, who were mainly in the eastern and southeastern provinces of Poland and in the territories of Lithuania, Western Ukraine and Western Belarus.

An attempt by the Home Army to seize Vilnius and Lviv turned into a farce, and the Warsaw Uprising a tragedy. Needless to say, in the event of the success of Operation Storm in the center of Europe, there would be an area controlled by the Home Army, which could lead to the development of the Second World War into a third. Actually, in the emigrant government they didn’t hide that the operation “Storm” was aimed not at defeating Germany, but creating a conflict between the USSR and the Western allies.

ALL WINE PERSONAL DIFFERENCE

On the night of June 22, complacency reigned in dozens of units and garrisons at the border. Someone managed to locate the training center for the artillery regiments of the High Command in 8 km from the border. The authorities liked the comfortable houses of Polish officers in their military town. 22 June 400 152-mm ML-20 22 mm new 400 guns were delivered to the training center, but the personnel never arrived. As a result, the Germans in the morning XNUMX June captured XNUMX gun howitzers with guns and later they were heavily used on both the Eastern Front and the batteries of the Atlantic Wall.

Did Stalin make 21 on June 1941 of the year go to the theater of the commander of the Western Front, Dmitry Grigorievich Pavlov, and the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Admiral Philip Sergeevich Oktyabrsky, to a concert at the Theater. Lunacharsky, and then arrange a party with friends?

From the crying disgrace that occurred in Sevastopol on the night of June 22, Admiral Oktyabrsky and the Navy Commissar of the Navy Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov later made a feat. So, Kuznetsov, in his memoirs, claims that he de gave an order to open fire on German aircraft in Sevastopol, contrary to Stalin’s orders, and he took great risks.

And what really happened in Sevastopol?

At about three o'clock in the morning, the duty officer at the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet was informed that the posts SNIS and VNOS, equipped with sound traps, could hear the noise of aircraft engines.

Shooting was open only when the aircraft were over the Sevastopol Bay. In 3.48 on Primorsky Boulevard, the first bomb exploded, after 4 minutes on the shore opposite the Monument to the submerged ships another bomb exploded. But this is half the trouble. At the headquarters of the fleet, the duty officer on duty from the liaison posts, from batteries and ships was informed that dropping parachutists were visible in the searchlight beams.

Panic began in the city. Alarmed sailors and NKVD officials rushed to search for paratroopers. And not only in Sevastopol, but throughout the Crimea. In the city all night long there was indiscriminate shooting.

The next morning it turned out that there were no parachutists, and on the streets only among civilians were picked up by 30 people killed and more than 200 wounded. It is clear that this is not a matter of two bombs.

In fact, five Non-111 aircraft from the 6 squadron of the KG4 squadron based at the airfield of Tsilistria in Romania made a raid. They dropped 8 magnetic parachute bombs, two of which hit the land, and self-destructors worked. According to Soviet data, the anti-aircraft gunners shot down two Henkel, but in fact all the German aircraft returned to their own airfield.

What does the fleet commander do? He orders to put 4 thousand anchor mines on the approaches to Sevastopol. After that, from the Caucasus, the ships could only walk along the narrow channel along the main base of the fleet, accompanied by minesweepers with lowered trawls, that is, the 2 – 4 node. On the mines of October 12 exploded their ships and not a single enemy. And in this Stalin is to blame?

So, the secretary general had no mistakes? Yes, dozens! Here are just two examples. Stalin by June 1941, unfortunately, still remained an internationalist Leninist. He was confident that the divisions formed from the “zapadents” in Ukraine, the Balts and the Crimean Tatars, would fight to the death against the Germans. As a result, about 20 such divisions fled, not taking the fight, and most of the personnel went to serve in the Wehrmacht and the SS.

Did Stalin have an alternative? Yes, I would send them all, with the exception of the Communists and Jews, to the rear railway and construction units, labor armies, etc. You look, they and benefit would bring the USSR.

During the three years of the war, Stalin, having received several blows from his motherstories, changed the philosophy of the internationalist-Leninist to the philosophy of the Russian monarchs, and began the forced relocation of minorities, the overwhelming majority of whose men fought on Hitler's side.

On this occasion, the liberals are hysterical: “He could have descended his sovereign anger on entire nations!” Let’s pay attention — it is sovereign! All Russian monarchs, beginning with Ivan III and until the end of the reign of Nicholas II, carried out mass migrations on ethnic, religious and other grounds.

And here is another mistake of Stalin. 19 August 1945, the 1 Far Eastern Front and the Pacific Fleet were ordered to seize the island of Hokkaido. Assigned to the landing 87 th infantry corps began loading on the ships. And then Stalin ordered to cancel the landing on Hokkaido. A number of historians claim that after the war, Stalin sadly spoke out to the commander-in-chief of the Soviet troops in the Far East, Marshal Vasilevsky: "They could have shown independence too."

SO WHO WON WON THE WAR

Denouncing Stalin, Khrushchev claimed that the party was leading the country during the war. Then nobody dared to object to him. But the CPSU collapsed, and in 50 years no “secret party members” who led the war were discovered.

A number of truth-lovers like Svanidze argued that in 1941 – 1945 no one ruled the country and the Red Army at all - “the people won the war against Stalin”.

The current leadership can not clearly explain to the people who won the war. But, judging by the fact that monuments to Stalin’s marshals and generals are massively built in the Russian Federation and their cult is actually created, and a ban is imposed on the monuments to Stalin, Volgograd has not been renamed, it turns out that Stalin’s marshals won the war.

Alas, the "Marshal of Victory" G.K. Zhukov did not participate at all in a number of major battles in the Second World War, for example, in the Battle of Stalingrad. Instead, he failed Operation Mars. Zhukov did not participate in the liberation of Leningrad from the German half of the besieged ring in January 1944 of the year and the Finnish half in June of 1944 of the year, in the defeat of Japan in August of 1945 of the year, etc.

None of the marshals participated in the leadership of the partisan movement, in the deployment of weapons production volumes unprecedented in history, in the successful evacuation of military and civilian enterprises in 1941 – 1942.

Back in 1830, General Karl von Clausewitz formulated the axiom: "War is the continuation of politics by other means." That is, a war can be considered fully successful only in the case of a profitable peace. Otherwise, the war turns into a bloody fight.

Alas, in the last three centuries of the war, only three rulers ended up in a successful world: Peter I, Catherine II and Stalin. The marshals did not participate in the diplomatic war. A new world order was created by Stalin, Malenkov and Lavrenty Beria. A little bit more Sergo Beria helped - put a “wiretap” in Tehran and Yalta.

Marshals did not deal with the restoration of the USSR economy in 1946 – 1949. Moreover, Stalin actually removed them from work on nuclear and rocket weapons. The marshals were in pleasant ignorance until they were reported: the Berkut air defense system was created, the atomic bomb was tested, work began on the first nuclear submarine, etc.

Did Stalin and Hitler unleash a war?

Now dozens of politicians and journalists claim that Stalin is the same criminal as Hitler, and together they started the Second World War. Suppose they are right. What follows from this?

It is necessary to destroy all the monuments of Stalin's commanders. After all, in Germany, no one will allow to erect monuments to Göring, Dönitz, Kesselring, Keitel, etc.

All international treaties concluded with 1939 to 1953 year, including the border agreement, should be declared void and canceled. Part of Karelia, part of the Leningrad Region, the entire Kaliningrad Region, half of Sakhalin, the Kuriles, etc. we must give to our dear neighbors.

Russia must start paying reparations to at least a dozen countries. How much? Well, just like Germany. After all, Stalin and Hitler together unleashed a war.

All citizens of the Russian Federation should unanimously repent for Stalin and their ancestors. Imagine an Evenk or Dolgan, who was obliged to repent for his ancestors, who from 1917 to 1953 year grazed deer peacefully on Taimyr.

I note that collective repentance does not conform to the canons of Christianity, and Orthodoxy in particular. Since the 1st century AD, repentance was only personified, that is, each person can repent only for himself and only for his sins.

Why does the Russian people and other peoples of Russia impose collective repentance? To instill in us all the inferiority complex.

As we see, Stalin's defamation and calls for collective repentance are aimed at the complete collapse of Russia.

All attempts by some politicians to find a middle ground between Russophobia and patriotism look very much like schizophrenia. Let me remind you that schizophrenia is derived from the Greek words "cleavage of reason", when a person thinks in two or more non-intersecting planes.

For example, Stalin is a villain, unworthy of monuments, and all his generals and marshals who unquestioningly carried out all his orders are heroes worthy of admiration. And it is necessary to arrange a tantrum, if their monuments are destroyed in Poland, in Ukraine and in other countries.

The Moscow Treaty of 1939 of the Year - the criminal Molotov – Ribbentrop Pact. But the borders established by this agreement are holy and inviolable.

Tens of millions of rubles are spent annually on the November 7 parade in honor of the 1941 parade of the year, but the Mausoleum, on which Stalin stood, carefully disguises itself from the people.

The rhetorical question: is there a future for the people if they finally implant such a schizophrenia? How to get rid of schizophrenia? Take a sample of the attitude towards history in the United States and Western Europe.

May I be given at least one example when Soviet aviation in 1941 – 1945 specifically targeted the civilian population. This was not and could not be. But the US and British aircraft in 1939 – 1945 destroyed over 6 a million civilians, specifically bombarding cities where there were no military units and military factories, such as Dresden, Hiroshima and hundreds of others.

In the twentieth century, only during local (colonial) wars, US, British and French troops killed up to 20 million women and children.

We can learn about all this by visiting the open archives of the West and studying narrowly specialized, but open literature. There no one hides the war crimes, the horrors of the colonial penal prisons, etc. But there is not and cannot be any mention of this in the mass media.

We have over the years 25 central television and other media daily defame Stalin. Of the other rulers of Russia goes only to Ivan the Terrible. And we really gradually have a feeling of inferiority and guilt for our ancestors.

And what if tomorrow someone will also begin, and strictly documented, to prove that Ivan III, Vasily III and Peter I were not less bloody tyrants than Ivan IV and Stalin? So far, our population is not aware that during the reign of Alexei Mikhailovich, Peter I and Anna Ioannovna in Russia, over a million people were murdered by the Old Believers, Muslims and other non-believers. For comparison, I will say that under the “personality cult” there was not a single sentence that spoke of religion. Rightly or unjustly, but they were tried exclusively for anti-Soviet agitation, conspiracies to violently overthrow the government, terrorism, false denunciations, etc.

In order to survive, Russia needs to stop engaging in self-flagellation and accept national history as it is. And we will be comforted by the fact that “over the hill” everything was much worse - that in the west, in the east.
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 21 October 2017 07: 44 New
    +6
    In terms of military strategy, the Barbarossa plan was a gamble
    ... It is unlikely that his developers were adventurers ..
    1. Cat
      Cat 21 October 2017 12: 05 New
      15
      Quote: parusnik
      In terms of military strategy, the Barbarossa plan was a gamble
      ... It is unlikely that his developers were adventurers ..

      Dear Alexei, the developers of the Barbarossa plan were even worse than adventurers. The bet on a “lightning” war with the USSR was absurd for only one reason. Russia is not Poland, not Norway, not Denmark, not even France. Red Arimia could retreat to the Ural Mountains. But to abandon the regions of central Russia, the Baltic, Ukraine and Belarus for the Soviet people would be an unacceptable condition, the collapse of ideology, lifestyle - everything and everything !!!
      The political elite of Germany did not realize that the peoples of Russia simply would not accept a separate peace within the borders of Arkhangelsk - Astrakhan. Which is acceptable to the French, would not find support in Russia.
      The German General Staff considered that having destroyed the personnel red army + 75% of the mobilized forces of the first wave + 25% of the mobilities of the second wave, he would put Russia on its knees. To do this, the Germans and saccumulated resources + corrected their "blitzkrik" taking into account the identified errors and ......... Lost. Lost in the summer when in the endless expanses of Russia they defeated the next shooting regiment number 798! Of the third permanent mobilization. When near Moscow, Leningrad, in the steppes of the Don and Kuban he was met by divisions of the national militia. Lost when an unknown third secret of the district committee with the remains of armed policemen and Komsomol members reached out into the forests of Belarus. And on the fifteenth day of the war the first echelon of the Nazis went off the rails. Lost when the first evacuated plants came to the snowy steppes of Kazakhstan, to the mountain valleys of the Urals and the forests of Siberia. And unknown boys in the open air stood up for machines instead of fathers and mothers. Lost .... all this can be continued indefinitely. The main thing is different. During the war years, everything was good and bad, but the most important thing is different. The victory was given to our grandfathers and great-grandfathers at a terrible price, but it was a victory. The victory over the military machine, which in three incomplete years "took the whole of Europe by the throat", and in the 45th was brought to its knees thanks to the simple Russian Van ......., and even the reindeer herder - dogan Dogan, should be proud of that his grandfather grazed deer, whose meat and skins went to the needs of the distant red army, which fought with the enemy.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 21 October 2017 12: 35 New
        +6
        I remain of my opinion .. They were not adventurers, like Karl XII, Napoleon .. but .. didn’t take into account the Russian mentality .. they didn’t like invaders forever, in Russia, in Russia .. Plan Barbarossa, prepared for Europe .. with her mentality and the same Europeans with their narrow thinking .. Later on, they played thinner, blew up the country from the inside .. and now they are trying to do so ...
        1. Cat
          Cat 21 October 2017 13: 21 New
          +8
          Mind does not understand Russia
          Simple arshin not measure
          words of a classic, but how many hidden essence are in them.
          By education and training, I am a classic pragmatist and conservative. Even here in VO I try to leave or criticize "new-fangled ideas", a la super-Russian ethnos, etc., but the "feat" of the people in the Great Patriotic War - in my awareness, has the libel of a supernatural, incredible and contrary to everything that can be applied numbers, maps, schemes, but it is impossible to statistically scientifically and logically explain its (victory) nature.
          So if to me "the grandfather the veteran steelworker" says that it was his tanks that won, I will believe. Or even a Tuvan shaman will say that his spirits made a significant contribution to the invaders, I will also believe!
          Alexei You are right that according to formal logic, mathematics, statistics and other scientific disciplines we should have lost, but our grandfathers and great-grandfathers won !!!
          My grandmother always told me "don’t pull the cat by the tail"! When I came home scratched, I knew that "knocking on cats" is useless, they warned me! Hitler tea was not a three-year-old child, but an adult uncle at the head of the country!
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 21 October 2017 14: 25 New
            +6
            The enemy was smart and strong and all the more worthy the Victory over him ..
            1. Cat
              Cat 21 October 2017 17: 46 New
              +8
              Conquered Europe was behind the enemy. Contribution to the "victory of the enemy" was made not only by German Hans from Bavaria, but also by Czech, and Danes, and Frenchmen, and Belgians, and Hungarians, and Romanians, and Slovaks, and Austrians. Some stood at the machine tools at the Skoda, Skol, and Krupp factories. Others with weapons in their hands strode through the land of our country. It is also necessary to remember those who got out with the advent of the Nazis from the “hole” and put on the armbands of the “policemen” or the emblem of the Wafen ss, entered national legions and began to kill, rob, rape in the occupied territories. And be still those who stole, robbed, stole while in the rear of the red army. It is necessary to remember everyone and everything. I repeat your words Alexei "The enemy was strong and smart." From myself I’ll supplement at least he was not stupid.
              The price of our victory is almost 27 million people. More than one country in the world did not pay such a price, with the possible exception of China, which, according to the estimates of its scientists for more than twelve years of confrontation with Japan, shocked 35 million people. The conclusion is simple, people are ready to lose so much and continue to fight until victory is won.
              There is only one example from history. War of Darius with the Scythians. Apparently something has been transmitted to us through the centuries, that the enemy has once again reached Moscow, but ..........?
              Dear Alexei, I agree with you "our grandfathers won a great victory"!
          2. LeonidL
            LeonidL 22 October 2017 05: 11 New
            +2
            The fact is that the "adult guy Hitler" never before 1941 pulled the tail of a Russian cat. If he had not pulled the cat, but stroked it, then ... but by its bestial nature he could not have otherwise, for which not only he, but also the whole of Germany paid.
      2. LeonidL
        LeonidL 22 October 2017 05: 08 New
        +2
        Dear, your ardor is somewhat propaganda. The German General Staff is very professional and he calculated everything correctly ... from a purely military point of view. No adventurism. Hitler summed up his bestial nature and attitude towards the population of the USSR as underdealers, but here the guilt of the generals is not so noticeable, although the implementation of the Order on Commissars and Jews was worth it. but even this order would not have caused that wave of hatred and the escalation of the war into the Patriotic War, if not for the bloody outrage in the occupied territory. But in the same Baltic States, in Ukraine, the Don, and in Kondovo Russia, at first, to be honest, quite a few met Germans, if not with bread and salt, then they were simply quite indented. Read the memories ... Later, after a sip of hot, they went and the partisans and prisoners were not taken. So, I think that your statement is not entirely true.
    2. Vasya Vassin
      Vasya Vassin 21 October 2017 12: 20 New
      +2
      Yes, they were real adventurers. How could one hope such an insignificant country as Germany to attack the USSR? The idiocy of pure water, in this case, hope for defeat and victory.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 14: 01 New
        +7
        Quote: Vasya Vassin
        Yes, they were real adventurers. How could one hope such an insignificant country as Germany to attack the USSR?

        Minor country? All of Europe went under Hitler.
        Quote: Vasya Vassin
        The idiocy of pure water, in this case, hope for defeat and victory.

        Nobody considered Hitler an idiot. But the USSR in the 42nd stood in the balance. It is enough to recall the famous order No. 227.
        1. Ulan
          Ulan 21 October 2017 16: 13 New
          +4
          Exactly. In that order, everything is perfectly laid out in what situation the country was in by the 42nd year.
    3. Proxima
      Proxima 21 October 2017 13: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      In terms of military strategy, the Barbarossa plan was a gamble
      ... It is unlikely that his developers were adventurers ..
      Absolutely right. Barbarossa was more than real. The Germans did not take into account the main factor - the perfectly streamlined (as it turned out later) Stalinist mobilization economy. With the GDP of almost all of continental Europe (which is almost an order of magnitude greater than that of Stalin), Hitler was unable to use it effectively. As for Kotische’s thought that the Germans would come to an agreement with us on the Astrakhan-Arkhangelsk line, this is complete nonsense. Barbarossa was followed by a different plan, and so on. Unless of course by this time the USSR did not crumble.
      1. Ulan
        Ulan 21 October 2017 16: 18 New
        +4
        No, not real. The drafters proceeded from incorrect assumptions and that "Russia is a colossus on clay feet" and that the population is muzzled by repressions and is just waiting for liberators, that the Red Army is bloodless by repressions and that it will be possible, in fleeting operations, to destroy the entire Red Army and occupy the territory along the Volga line, deprive the USSR mobilization potential and industry.
        All this was a fantasy. Incorrect assessment of the situation leads to defeat. Which is what happened.
        Hitler lost the war on June 22nd 1941.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 21 October 2017 22: 53 New
          +1
          Yes, and purely technically. How much a tank of that time could go on its own without
          engine overhaul? A few hundred kilometers maximum. It's less
          than the distance to Moscow. But Barbarossa assumed access to the "line" Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan. Tanks cannot get this far even without battles and damage.
          That is, the war inevitably stretched over two seasons ("two summers"), at least. Indeed, in cold weather, the Wehrmacht did not intend to attack, but to sit out in dugouts. And Hitler insisted on one season (classic blitzkrieg). Therefore - yes, an adventure.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 23: 10 New
            +3
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Yes, and purely technically.

            Why not moral? If you read B. Polevoy, Goering answered at Nuremberg that they envisioned everything, but could not foresee the riddle of the Russian man.
      2. Cat
        Cat 21 October 2017 18: 00 New
        +5
        The final idea was expressed by Hitler in the book "May Camph." Living space in the east.
        The reality of the Ost plan is constantly disputed, but if you look for the truth in its pages, then there was no place for “non-downstream Ukraine” or “Baltic states”. There proclaimed a picture close to the heart of Stephen-Batory and Charles 12 from small protectorates and dependent pseudo-states. But ....... how it ended we know. Now it is necessary to make all our efforts to ensure that this lies in the patrimonial memory of our children and grandchildren. For what? So as not to happen again.
    4. WapentakeLokki
      WapentakeLokki 21 October 2017 14: 05 New
      +3
      No, they simply were weakly and completely uninformed (and here the merit of the British-minded Canaris and his Abwehr). The initial data were not correct as a result, Germany was finally bled and the USSR collapsed i.e. loser. And who in profit, alas, is not Britain which brewed this mess (WW II), but America which didn’t fight seriously, so she put ammunition and grub for loot (both ways)
    5. VS
      VS 22 October 2017 15: 17 New
      0
      As later wrote Shearer - Hitler and his accomplices seriously counted on betrayal in the USSR)))
  2. Gardamir
    Gardamir 21 October 2017 08: 05 New
    +8
    To survive, Russia needs to stop self-flagellating and accept Russian history as it is
    By the way, the leaders of the country should be evaluated on this principle. Repents for his ancestors means a traitor.
    1. MrK
      MrK 21 October 2017 13: 07 New
      +7
      Quote: Gardamir
      To survive, Russia needs to stop self-flagellating and accept Russian history as it is

      The great ancient Chinese thinker and philosopher Confucius, who lived over 500 years BC, still said: “Beware of those who want to charge you with guilt and repentance. For they crave power over you».
  3. Cat
    Cat 21 October 2017 08: 23 New
    +9
    If you take the essence and main idea of ​​the article, I subscribe to every word of Alexander Shirokorad!
    I can’t change the history of my Fatherland, but I consider it my duty to protect it from distortion!
    Less and less are eyewitnesses of the events of those days, the proportionally more “curers”, “debunkers”, etc. will stop. As part of the election campaign in 2017, I was an eyewitness to the dispute between the “remade” official of the local municipality and Babuska. "Chinusha" - 30 years old, was engaged in nominating himself as a deputy of the Duma of my hometown. As is customary in the neighborhood, the meeting took place on the street, naturally blocking the movement. I did not expect such a "bite", so I became the witness of the following.
    The bureaucrat was apparently responsible for preparing the town for heating and it is not surprising that he "frowned" and apparently not the first time. Moreover, the pleibiscite did not come to support his aspirations for the deputy’s chair, but to ask the “goat ... for” preparing for the heating season, not only for the future, but also for the past. So all the promises of the "bureaucrats" found their critic, who remembered everything for him, including "how he climbed up the underworld without pants." At the peak of the conflict, my neighbor Baba Tonya could not stand it and issued the deputy phrase “Stalin is not on you”. Foolish, instead of keeping silent, began to broadcast "On Repression." For which 93 three-year-old grandmothers took up the “little girl” - the vine of which grazed her goats stretched the “chosen one” across the back! What bureaucrat did not come up with anything better to scream "police"! So if he had the mind to keep silent, so the next day he went to the police department to write a statement !!!?
    Conclusion The people who lived in the Stalin era after three quarters of a century sincerely believe in his authority as the head of state, his justice and omnipotence. And to the naivety, and after all it costs a lot if for grandmother Tony, for almost a century of her life the “idol” has never met a more worthy one.
  4. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 21 October 2017 08: 40 New
    +3
    Well, as it were, mines in Sevastopol, and in the Baltic and the Northern Fleet, began to be set not just like that, but fulfilling pre-war plans for the deployment of forces that had been drawn up in advance, approved at the very top ..... another thing is that, according to the mate : "The trouble with Russia is that it always prepares for the" last war ", ..", but this also applies to most other countries ...
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 21 October 2017 16: 23 New
      +2
      Plans are plans, but there is a real situation that makes these plans change. Oktyabrsky, instead of first clarifying the situation, immediately began to carry out a plan of mine production.
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN 21 October 2017 18: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Ulan
        first to find out the situation, immediately began to carry out a mine production plan.

        What to find out? The war began, gather in the office of officials, get an envelope from the safe, open it at all and begin to fulfill the requirements .... It should be so ... request
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 18: 41 New
          +5
          Quote: NIKNN
          take the envelope out of the safe, open it at all, and begin to follow the instructions.

          So in the envelope the situation is not written. I wonder what kind of envelope DAM opened in the 2008th year? With the name "Assault on a Friendly Country"? Not, in my opinion, our lawyer combed all the bald patches in search of the question "What to do?"
          1. NIKNN
            NIKNN 21 October 2017 18: 48 New
            +4
            DAM is a clinic. In each headquarters of each district there are envelopes with instructions for action when starting a particular situation. We did not have plans to repulse Georgia’s aggression against South Ossetia, but when attacking any part of Russia, there is such an envelope in any part ... I will even justify DAM, because then no one could really owe it and the headquarters was moving ...., they did a good job there, well, not the Georgians, of course, even calculated the possibilities of our connection with the delay ... request Tat, in an ideal situation, there was nothing to expect from DAM, and even then he shouldn’t wake him up ...
    2. LeonidL
      LeonidL 22 October 2017 05: 17 New
      +1
      Absolutely right! In World War I, it was mine productions that saved the Baltic Fleet. But ... in the last war, and in the Patriotic War the fleet was almost destroyed. By the way, in the first war, minefields near Sevastopol and Odessa, if they had been initiated in time, would have done away with Geben and Breslau at once ... alas, they coordinated and dug for a long time.
  5. Cartalon
    Cartalon 21 October 2017 09: 12 New
    +4
    While our population is not aware that during the reign of Alexei Mikhailovich, Peter I and Anna Ioannovna in Russia, over a million people were killed for the faith of Old Believers, Muslims and other Gentiles
    Why did they kill so little? What documents are attached or will it do?
    1. Cat
      Cat 21 October 2017 19: 23 New
      +3
      I put a plus, for the sake of the fact that you should have a plus.
      Based on the laws of formal logic, the state always sacrifices something for the sake of its interests: resources, technologies, and how unapproachable is the lives of its subjects or citizens. Is it permissible or not? The problem is debatable. But in turn, citizens taking the oath sacrifice themselves for the sake of the state. The process of sacrifice and self-sacrifice exists as long as there is a state and citizens who are ready to give their lives for the good of the fatherland.
      An example of the death of a state is the fall of the Roman Empire. The empire fell when the last soldier, ready to die for the empire, did not come to the walls of the eternal city.
      An example of self-sacrifice of a citizen, three months ago we buried a boy 25 years old. Late in the evening I returned from service - my heart could not stand it. If he were a "bastard" and worked according to the daily routine, there would be people around. And so at 23:50 there was no one in the entrance, they called the ambulance late.
      So far, there will be such guys among us for whom "service = duty and honor"! Our state will exist, as soon as they end, it will end.
      I have the honor!
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 October 2017 09: 14 New
    +6
    Whole world knows Churchill said after the death of Joseph Vissarionovich: “Stalin accepted Russia with a plow, and left with an atomic bomb”

    Nothing in the world of this phrase in Churchill does not know! For he never said it.
    Comrade Widely before writing articles, I think I should have studied real historical facts, not fiction
    The Moscow Treaty of 1939 of the Year - the criminal Molotov – Ribbentrop Pact. But the borders established by this agreement are holy and inviolable.

    . how can one be so uneducated? The post-war borders of Romania were established as a result of the Paris Peace Conference of 1947 on the basis of the decision of the Potsdam.
    Poland’s borders are also a result of the post-war Treaty.
    1. Proxima
      Proxima 21 October 2017 11: 46 New
      10
      Quote: Olgovich
      Whole world knows Churchill said after the death of Joseph Vissarionovich: “Stalin accepted Russia with a plow, and left with an atomic bomb”

      Nothing in the world of this phrase in Churchill does not know! For he never said it.

      INGROUND DEFLECTED LIES !!!
      “For some reason” this phrase, “which no one knows in the world” was published in the British essay collection Ironies of History: Essays on Contemporary Communism:
      “The essence of Stalin’s historic achievements is that he took Russia with a plow, and leaves it with nuclear reactors. He raised Russia to the level of the second industrial power in the world. This was not the result of purely material progress and organization. "Such achievements would not have been possible without a comprehensive cultural revolution, during which the entire population attended school and studied very hard."
      Now, open the British Encyclopedia (Volume 21, p. 303, 1956):

      As for Churchill, as if he didn’t say this phrase, a number of “researchers” act, to put it mildly, in bad faith. Such methods can refute any behind-the-scenes phrase of a politician.
      The British leader and more laudatory speeches addressed to Stalin. Here you will not go anywhere with your "research historians."
      For example, an excerpt from Churchill's speech in the House of Commons 1945:

      "I personally can feel nothing but the greatest admiration for this truly great man, the father of his country, who rules the fate of his country in times of peace and the victorious defender of it during wars."
      And Churchill's official phrases, I can give you a lot.
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 22 October 2017 00: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: Proxima
        Now, open the British Encyclopedia (Volume 21, p. 303, 1956)

        In the article “Stalin” of the Encyclopedia Britannica (Encyclopaedia Britannica. Vol.21. London, 1964. P. 303) I. Deutscher wrote the following: “... he found Russia working with wooden plows and left it equipped with atomic piles” (“... he got Russia plowing with wooden plows, and left it equipped with nuclear reactors ”). It should be noted that W. Churchill is not mentioned in this article as an author. this phrase. At the end of the entire Stalin article signature IDthat at the beginning of the first volume stands for Isaac Deutscher.
        Quote: Proxima
        As for Churchill, as if this phrase was not said

        The following passage from Churchill’s speech is often published, dated December 21, 1959 (the year of the 80th anniversary of JV Stalin): “Stalin was the greatest, unparalleled dictator in the world who accepted Russia with a plow and left it with nuclear weapons. Well, history, people don’t forget such people "
        A number of researchers consider this speech a hoax, because:
        Her original for the specified date was not found.
        Churchill's health problems (heart attack) were known precisely on December 20, 1959.
        The last meeting of the British Parliament in 1959 was held on December 17.

        All the time citing this phrase not belonging to Churchill and other laudatory comments, his admirers somehow “forget” about Churchill's other statements about Stalin, for example, what he said in his speech at the Conservative Party conference in Backpool on October 9, 1954:
        Let the dictators, whose malevolence gave rise to terrible deeds - deeds that would never have been accomplished without their autocratic personal power - carry their terrible list of deeds in history. Let Hitler take his shame with him to hell ... But at this momentous moment in world history and perhaps the fate of all mankind, I mean not only Germany and Hitler. Stalin was the dictator of Russia for many years, and the more I studied his career, the more I was shocked by the terrible mistakes that he made and the complete ruthlessness that he showed to individuals and the masses with which he acted. Stalin, when Russia was attacked, was our ally against Hitler, but when Hitler was destroyed, Stalin became our main source of horror. After our joint victory became apparent, his behavior again divided the world. It seems that he was excessively raving about the idea of ​​world domination. He really reduced the third of Europe to the state of the Soviet satellite, which was charged with the ideology of communism. These events, after all that we went through together, deeply upset us.
        where he puts Hitler and Stalin on the same board.
        1. LeonidL
          LeonidL 22 October 2017 05: 23 New
          +5
          Churchill is Churchill - this is an old and cunning fox with many faces. He said a lot and wrote even more, but during the war he (at least publicly) extolled Stalin in every way. There is no reason to believe Churchill, to take at least his plan "The Unthinkable" - an attack on the USSR together with an uninhabited Wehrmacht in July 1945. This plan frightened the British elite so much that it made every effort to get rid of such an unpredictable and simply become dangerous leader in the upcoming elections. Therefore, having left Podstam in a fine victorious mood, Churchill did not return back.
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 22 October 2017 16: 25 New
            +2
            Quote: LeonidL
            but during the war he (at least publicly) extolled Stalin in every way.

            so for that the allies, Stalin also noted the valiant actions of the allies acting on other fronts, congratulated them, the politician, which cannot be said for the benefit of the common cause. But then, as the war ended, and many leaders of the Allies even before the war ended, they began to criticize Stalin and the Soviet system.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 22 October 2017 06: 12 New
        +5
        Quote: Proxima
        As for Churchill, as if he didn’t say this phrase, a number of “researchers” act, to put it mildly, in bad faith. Such methods can refute any behind-the-scenes phrase of a politician.

        Nonsense.
        He had never said such a thing anywhere. Call-WHERE it was said: in what speech, what date ..
        You can not? No you can not. Rt
        So take your kaplok "LIES" - back.
  7. Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 October 2017 09: 29 New
    +4
    All Russian monarchs, starting from Ivan III until the end of the reign of Nicholas II, carried out mass resettlements on ethnic, religious and other grounds.

    Why this not true?
    Why blacken the history of our country?
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 21 October 2017 10: 40 New
      +3
      Quote: Olgovich
      Why is this untruth?


      In all discussions, I usually oppose you. But here I will join. But do not pay attention. This is a broad loader. Grasped on a fashionable topic. And managed it.
      1. Cat
        Cat 21 October 2017 18: 31 New
        +5
        Quote: Olgovich
        All Russian monarchs, starting from Ivan III until the end of the reign of Nicholas II, carried out mass resettlements on ethnic, religious and other grounds.

        Why this not true?
        Why blacken the history of our country?

        In most cases, I agree with you, but I must say that such facts have taken place. Yes, it is regrettable, unfair and dirty, but unfortunately true.
        The Catherine the Great respected by me, by her decree, actually “deportes” the Zaporozhye Cossack Army to the Kuban. Yes, the goals were good, and the irregulars had responsibilities. But the will of mother sovereign of life was fulfilled. Although we got an interesting historical incident, because if you want to hear the real Ukrainian rumor, then you need to go not to Kiev, but to the Temryuk district of the Krasnodar Territory.
        During the reign of Nicholas I, all Bashkir yurts north of Chusova were moved to the south coast and further. There are many such examples; I did not specifically take examples of the peoples of the North Caucasus and Central Asia. A separate line is the case of "labor migration" of entire volosts and counties on the initiative of landowners, breeders and officials. So, for example, Romidanov villages were sold to Demidov by almost 10 souls. He relocated more than 000 to the Stone belt - to build factories. Norm. Sad but true.
        Dear Olegovich, throughout the thousand-year history of Russia there has been a lot of bad and a lot of good. The idea of ​​creating myths for the sake of the latter is a short-sighted and stupid step. As in the old army joke about the charter - through all the hardships and hardships, then you will remember the service firmly and with love.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 18: 50 New
          +7
          You can also recall the Circassians during the Crimean War, the Stolypin reform, where voluntarily (?) Resettled peasants died of hunger. Only Olgovich does not want to see this, for him the Bolsheviks are to blame for everything.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 22 October 2017 06: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Stolypin reform, where voluntarily (?) The resettled peasants died of hunger.

            Tell us more.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 22 October 2017 08: 49 New
              +6
              Quote: Olgovich
              Tell us more.

              What do I need to tell the whole point of the reform? Yes, the same as that of Chubais, you think, did not fit into the market. Here are just half a million peasants who did not take root in Siberia and returned back, were left with nothing. Here is another reason for the revolution. The division of the peasantry into a class of wealthy world-eaters and farm laborers. In fact, Stolypin destroyed the community.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 22 October 2017 08: 54 New
                +4
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                What do I need to tell the whole point of the reform?

                No, I know her. I dont know
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                where voluntarily (?) resettled peasants starved to death
                .
                And you don’t know. But say it.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 22 October 2017 08: 58 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  But say it.

                  And about the famine 1908-1911g. - this is your fake. Your position is known, it is impossible to convince.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 22 October 2017 09: 02 New
                    +4
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    And about the famine 1908-1911g. - this is your fake. Your position is known, it is impossible to convince.

                    You can convince: bring the graves of the Soviet demographic scientists about hunger and loss, as well as the evidence of the police and the gendarmerie about starvation, cannibalism, eating fell (as NKVD reports 32,33,47 years).
                    Can you Not again?
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 22 October 2017 09: 15 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Not again?

                      No, I can’t. They were all kind of sickly.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 October 2017 09: 43 New
                        +4
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        No, I can’t.

                        no one doubted, there is NO research, as there is not and there was no reason for research.
                        since you can’t, why are your fiction?
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 22 October 2017 06: 23 New
          +4
          Quote: Kotischa
          The important Catherine the Great, whom I important, by his decree, actually “deportes” the Zaporizhzhya Cossack Army to the Kuban.

          Troops deported ?! The army executes orders.
          Quote: Kotischa
          During the reign of Nicholas I, all Bashkir yurts north of Chusovoy were moved to the south coast and further

          Where is it written about?
          Quote: Kotischa
          e took examples of the peoples of the North Caucasus and Central Asia

          Let's take it.
          Quote: Kotischa
          A separate line is the case of "labor migration" of entire volosts and counties on the initiative of landowners, breeders and officials. So, for example, Romidanov villages were sold to Demidov by almost 10 souls. He relocated more than 000 to the Stone belt - to build factories. Norm. Sad but true.

          For those times, the norm, yes.
          Quote: Kotischa
          Dear Olegovich, throughout the thousand-year history of Russia there has been a lot of bad and a lot of good. The idea of ​​creating myths for the sake of the latter is a short-sighted and stupid step.

          That is yes. The fact is that the peoples in Russia have survived and this speaks volumes.
          1. Cat
            Cat 22 October 2017 16: 40 New
            +2
            1. According to the Zaporozhets. The army with women, children and the elderly ... Someone from such happiness rushed to the turretschina.
            2. History of the Urals, Middle Ural ed. 1978, pp. 90-95. What do you think the fortresses were built in the center of Russia: Yekaterinburg, Chelyabinsk, Chebarkul, Klinovskaya, Grobovskaya, etc. I draw your attention to the "Captain's daughter" of Pushkin.
            3 example of Adygea.
            4. I am a descendant of these hamayuns. The happiness of relocating to the Stone Belt from none of them considered rioting for almost a decade.
            Olegovich, I have no second thought to denigrate the history of Russia, but the truth is more expensive.
            The ability of a Russian peasant to find a common language with foreigners - except as a phenomenon, language does not turn. But it is foolish to think that the pioneers of the Russian land were Yak lambs.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 23 October 2017 09: 17 New
              +4
              Quote: Kotischa
              1. According to the Zaporozhets. The army with women, children and the elderly ... Someone from such happiness rushed to the turretschina.

              1. Any Cossack army was so created and moved. Zaporozhets had to be unmarried (according to their rules)
              Quote: Kotischa
              What do you think the fortresses were built in the center of Russia: Yekaterinburg, Chelyabinsk, Chebarkul, Klinovskaya, Grobovskaya

              not for the resettlement of peoples
              Quote: Kotischa
              History of the Urals, Middle Ural ed. 1978

              Only editions 72 and 75 are mentioned in the network. In addition, the decree of Nicholas 1 on the resettlement of the Bashkirs is not mentioned anywhere on the network.
              Quote: Kotischa
              3 example of Adygea.

              There was a war. They lost. Those who didn’t want to live under the Russian authorities moved — especially Porta sent ships and agitators. Who remained, remained on equal terms with the Russians.
              Quote: Kotischa
              4. I am a descendant of these hamayuns. The happiness of relocating to the Stone Belt from none of them considered rioting for almost a decade.

              Then it was a common practice everywhere. Then she was gone.
              Quote: Kotischa
              Olegovich, I have no second thought to denigrate the history of Russia, but the truth is more expensive.
              The ability of a Russian peasant to find a common language with foreigners - except as a phenomenon, language does not turn. But it’s stupid to think that the pioneers of the Russian land were Yak lambs

              I completely agree with you about the lads and peasants, but you can also put the emphasis in different ways: all the peoples lived in Russia on a par with the Russian and survived is a fact hi
  8. Curious
    Curious 21 October 2017 11: 03 New
    +6
    "Comrade Shirokorada, before writing the articles, I think, one should study real historical facts, not fiction '
    Comrade Shirokorad does not deal with such nonsense as studying and checking facts. If he would do it all the time, when would he "create" more than sixty books? The main thing here is to catch the grudge of the day, and the facts are the tenth thing.
  9. Monarchist
    Monarchist 21 October 2017 11: 10 New
    +5
    Quote: parusnik
    In terms of military strategy, the Barbarossa plan was a gamble
    ... It is unlikely that his developers were adventurers ..

    I completely agree with you: "" Barbaross’s plan "was developed by intelligent and practical people.
    1. polpot
      polpot 21 October 2017 13: 22 New
      +2
      Waiting for help from their friends on the territory of the USSR and got who the gallows who shot
  10. Monarchist
    Monarchist 21 October 2017 11: 19 New
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    All Russian monarchs, starting from Ivan III until the end of the reign of Nicholas II, carried out mass resettlements on ethnic, religious and other grounds.

    Why this not true?
    Why blacken the history of our country?

    The author has a peculiar approach to history, which means that he really has rubber!
    If you rephrase Dumas the elder: "give me a true fact, and I will fantasize as I want" in this whole Shirokorad
  11. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 21 October 2017 12: 08 New
    +3
    Quote from the article:
    Khrushchev and others shamelessly liedthat Stalin had to be awakened to report the start of the war.

    It is necessary to write more clearly and definitely.
    The foundations of this lie laid four-time Hero of the Soviet Union, holder of two orders of Victory, Marshal of the Soviet Union, Marshal of Victory Zhukov. It was he who launched this lie into the “scientific” circulation, publishing it in detail in his intravital memoirs “Memoirs and Reflections” from 1969. Where he published the whole act of waking up on the night of June 21-22, 1941 and protecting the head of the Government of the USSR, and the Chairman of the Government himself. Everyone was sleeping along Zhukov, only he, Zhukov, the future four-time Hero of the Soviet Union, holder of two orders of Victory, Marshal of the Soviet Union, Marshal of Victory was awake.
    And later, it was Khrushchev and other liars who already simply repeated this Zhukovsky lies, naturally added their author’s vision and some details known only to them.
  12. Vasya Vassin
    Vasya Vassin 21 October 2017 12: 15 New
    +4
    Article as a balm for a wound. Many thanks to the author.
  13. Monarchist
    Monarchist 21 October 2017 12: 19 New
    +3
    Comrades, I’m in difficulty: yesterday I thought not to pay attention to Shirokorada (I’ll interpret the story freely), but here it’s true in spirit, but the details are scattered.
    1. "Stalin was different in that war" discovered America, someone just said: "** only the crayfish do not change, and Stalin does not look like ** the crayfish.
    2. Repressions of 37-38gg, I’m not going to arrange disputes here, but I’ll notice: really talented and decent officers also got into the “meat grinder”: for example, Egorov (colonel of the old army, a devoted defender of the Soviet power) Rokossovsky, and who would doubt Rokossovsky’s talent ?
    3. Yes, Sergo Ordzhonikidze was a failed paramedic, but he managed and well managed the NKTP, but tell me, so that Stalin could do without domestic industry?
    4. Broadband correctly evaluates the “military” talents: Voroshilov and Budyonny and Zhukov were attached to them, apparently, Stalin was mistaken when Zhukov was awarded the Order of Victory?
    5. How to understand Zhukov’s words: “At 3.17 I was called by the commander of the Black Sea Fleet Admiral Oktyabrsky on HF and said:“ The airborne airborne navigation system reports on the approach from the sea of ​​a large number of unknown planes ...... “Zhukov” Memoirs and Reflections “Moscow 1969. G. K. Fantazer comes out and sucked everything from his finger?
    1. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 21 October 2017 12: 48 New
      0
      Alas, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the history of the Fatherland, if you read the memoirs of various historical figures - someone made excuses, someone blocked himself, someone just reminded of his personality.
      1. polpot
        polpot 21 October 2017 13: 28 New
        0
        You just don’t need to perceive memoirs as a historical document, it’s more like an artistic work on the topic of events
    2. polpot
      polpot 21 October 2017 13: 26 New
      +1
      And a very big dreamer, especially those people who wrote these memoirs for him, although Brezhnevi put his team of authors with the Renaissance and Small Earth and Zhukov put it in his belt
    3. Ulan
      Ulan 21 October 2017 16: 31 New
      +4
      I would not have become so categorically negative about Voroshilov and Budyonny. It was Voroshilov, and not Tukhachevsky, who began the motorization of the Red Army.
      Voroshilov did a lot for the defense of Leningrad.
      Budyonny commanded the southwestern direction and the German command noted the skillful command of the opposing forces.
      I read that it was not Zhukov, but it was Budyonny who suggested that Kiev be dismissed and for this he was removed from command of the direction.
      But Zhukov attributed this fact in Memoirs to himself and allegedly for this he was removed from the post of chief of the General Staff.
      On that day, which Zhukov describes, he was not at all in the Kremlin, according to the journal of visits.
      They removed it precisely for the failure of the outbreak of war.
    4. Cat
      Cat 21 October 2017 18: 41 New
      +2
      I will comment only on the events of 37-38 years. The repression went on the ice rink, both good and bad. After three-quarters of a century, it is hard to guess "whose value" for the war was higher or lower. Finding the truth is almost impossible.
  14. midshipman
    midshipman 21 October 2017 13: 19 New
    +3
    Dear Alexander, I think that you have belittled the role of Zhukov in the defense of Leningrad .. I conducted my research and published an article in VO "Crisis month in the defense of the city." There I showed how G.K. In just a week, Zhukov changed the structure of the defense of the city, canceled orders for the explosion of ships and enterprises, launched a counterattack on operational sites, introduced control of the airspace of only one radar station, dispersed KBF ships across the Neva, created heavy railway artillery (my father participated in this, but died December 27, 1941 on the Len Front), etc. I personally respect Zhukov. In the 80s, I had to work a lot with the Marshals: P. Kutakhov. Efimov A.N., Savitsky E.Ya. and even several times met with Ustinov D.F. Therefore, I know a number of questions professionally. I have the honor.
    1. Cat
      Cat 21 October 2017 18: 57 New
      +3
      Dear Yuri Georgievich, if possible. Could you express your opinion in relation to Alexander Shirokorad.
      R.s. To be honest, I'm in a frustration - once again, the author's article introduces discord and confusion among the people I sincerely respect. Maybe your intervention and authority will find common ground and understanding that we are different. But despite this - we are here and now (on the pages of VO) and the fact that we are united by love for the history of our common Fatherland.
      Sorry to bother you.
      Regards, Sincerely Your Cat.
      1. midshipman
        midshipman 21 October 2017 21: 59 New
        +3
        Dear Kotsche, I am contacting you by your pseudonym. Excuse me. I personally do not know Alexander Borisovich. But according to his publications I see in them many inaccuracies. He, as a mathematician, does not have the right to allow this. In society, I know many respect him, but many, on the contrary, consider his publications to have errors. As a scientist (more than 300 scientific works and more than 50 art publications), I believe that society needs to present honest information. I recall the opinion of my respected Statesmen (with whom I was personally acquainted) that it is worth telling the truth and those things that you understand. If not, it is better to remain silent. I have the honor.
        1. Cat
          Cat 21 October 2017 22: 09 New
          +2
          Thank you!
  15. Yaroslav 2
    Yaroslav 2 21 October 2017 14: 24 New
    +1

    to the Military Academy. Frunze in the 1920's - the beginning of the 1930's received commanders with two classes of the parish school


    Well, there were no others in the country. A generation of then commanders was born in Russia at the turn of the century - where the peasant population made up the majority of the population, and for peasant children it was not possible to learn more than three classes. Many generals who distinguished themselves in the war had such an education.

    It is clear that Stalin in June 1941 wanted the best. Yes, he was sweating. Well, both Yeltsin and Gorbachev wanted the best — according to the logic of the author, should they also be taken out of criticism?
    1. Cat
      Cat 21 October 2017 22: 17 New
      +2
      Tell me a man who made no mistakes!
  16. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 22 October 2017 03: 14 New
    +1
    Title: Stalin was different. And according to the article, it turns out that he was always one - ingenious.
    The topic has not been disclosed.
  17. LeonidL
    LeonidL 22 October 2017 04: 25 New
    +2
    With all due respect to the author, I want to give my comments. 1. The article is too emotional, which, unfortunately, recalls the works of Rezun. 2. Unlike the author and many historians, one should not consider Stalin as a great commander or a great military commander - he never was and could not be. Comrade Stalin never served in command positions in the army, did not receive a normal military education, and did not participate in battles. Does this belittle Stalin's personal contribution to the Victory? Stalin was the military-political leader of the USSR and the Soviet people, and in this capacity his role is undeniably great. But, alas, when Stalin personally tried to direct all purely military operations at the beginning of the war, this ended only in losses. Fortunately for the country and the army, Stalin by the end of 1943 realized this and left the war to military professionals. As arguments confirming my point of view, I will give examples of how Comrade Stalin tried to "strengthen" military professionals with "political" associates. Everything was sent to the front from Voroshilov and Budyonny (which is still not so scary) to Kaganovich, Khrushchev and Mehlis, which always led to disasters. Mehlis failed the Kerch operation as a result of which not only hundreds of thousands of soldiers and commanders, thousands of military equipment were irretrievably lost, but also Sevastopol and the Kerch Peninsula. Khrushchev persuaded Tymoshenko to the stupidly failed Kharkov operation, and as a result, the Germans reached Stalingrad and Kakaz. Kaganovich, sent to the North Caucasus, could not do anything; Beria succeeded him a little more. But these are also leaders without a military education, only in caliber less than Comrade Stalin. 3. The author writes: "For two years (1938-1939) the Red Army received 158 thousand. commanders, political workers and other military specialists. In the three pre-war years (1939–1941), 48 thousand graduated from military schools. people, and refresher courses - 80 thousand In the first half of 1941, another 70 thousand were sent from schools and academies to the troops. officers. " Like, these commanders (not officers) then could immediately replace everything and everyone upon graduation. Unfortunately no. released in 1938 from the Academy, the colonel had a sufficient theoretical base at the level of the regiment commander - chief of staff of the division maximum. For a civilian, these figures may mean something, but a military man who understands the importance and complexity of planning operations for compounds and unions will immediately understand their cunning. repressed and dismissed commanders, generals and marshals, unlike the remodelers of the pre-war years, had long-term experience in command and control. I will give some examples. The commanders of the districts that took the first strike, first of all Pavlov and Kirponos, these are the people who jumped to the positions of commanders of the fronts, having actually jumped over the very important steps of the military ladder. The same Pavlov would surely be an excellent commander of a tank brigade or a good commander of a tank (mech) division, but he became a front commander without commanding a corps or army for a day. The same is Kirpnos. And, on the contrary, people who have gone through all the levels of the army hierarchy — Zhukov, Rokossovsky, Vasilevsky, and so on — have dealt with their duties much better than the precocious “commanders” without experience or only with theoretical baggage. By the way, Zhukov and Rokossovsky also had theoretical experience. They studied at academic courses, where old professors taught and taught hard. Or take the same General Kreiser - the first general Hero of the USSR. After all, he went through all stages of service without exception and knew how to manage troops. Yes, and 10 repressed is far from all - many were simply dismissed from the Red Army and the party, although they did not appear in court. True, Beria managed to return a part, about 30% of the repressed and fired back, but people were broken, this also needs to be taken into account.
    1. Cat
      Cat 22 October 2017 06: 51 New
      +2
      I dare to conclude for you!
      The bottom line, the "emotions of the article" must be "hung" on their knowledge of history.
  18. LeonidL
    LeonidL 22 October 2017 04: 59 New
    +2
    Passage about completely illegally repressed people sounds very vicious and disdainful. "Brilliant strategist" Marshal Tukhachevsky graduated only from the infantry school and did not study anywhere else, but preferred to teach others. Marshal Blucher graduated from the 1st (one!) Class of the parish school and did not study anywhere else. As for the People's Commissar of Heavy Industry Sergo Ordzhonikidze and his deputy Ivan Petrovich Pavlunovsky, they did not finish military schools either. Ordzhonikidze in 1901-1905 studied at the feldsher school and, apparently, did not finish it. And Pavlunovsky generally never studied, except in a parish school. But Pavlunovsky was also in charge of the mobilization department of the Red Army. These glorious dilettantes in the 1920s and 1930s were ruled by the fate of the Red Army. " . Apparently, the respected author, in the heat of conviction, forgot that it was Tukhachevsky who initiated the creation of the Airborne Forces and tank formations, to which they finally came to, it was on the theoretical works of the repressed military theoreticians of the Red Army that the theory of such breakthroughs of the Wehrmacht was created. Yes, Tukhachevsky initiated the creation of thousands of light tanks, but ... and which tanks were then in the armies of all other states? Well, those factories that, at the insistence of Tukhachevsky, increased the production of tanks from 300 in 1933 to 3000 in subsequent years, were able to give during the war those leaders of thousands of tanks that paved the way to victory. What would happen if these plants were not built and the country would wait for the appearance of something new with 300 tanks a year? Just expose the industry marshals, but it was they who created the Victory base. After all, she was not born from nothing in 1939 after their death? It’s not good, dear author, to dishonestly fight the dead, it smells bad, you know. Now a little about whether Stalin "slept" in the war. The author’s approach is propaganda simplified. I fully agree that Stalin was absolutely fully informed about Hitler’s plans, and I can assume that this knowledge came from Britain and Germany. Clearly not from Mr. Churchill. From the Fuhrer Hitler ... The fact is that the British managed not only to split German ciphers, but also to get an almost complete version of the Barbaross Plan ... from Hess and several other sources. But ... in Britain by that time, Soviet intelligence worked at the highest levels of military, intelligence and state infrastructure. The Cambridge Five is one famous. In addition, such intelligence asses worked in Germany as the Alta group. One way or another, but Barbaross’s plan was probably on Hitler’s table at the same time as the tables of Stalin and Churchill. What should Stalin have to do in such a situation? To succumb to the calls of the military - Tymoshenko-Zhukov, Vasilevsky, Meretskov ... and deliver a preemptive strike? If Stalin was a military commander, he probably would have done so. But Stalin is a military-political leader, a leader. And therefore, above all, I thought globally. For 1941-1, the economy and industrial capabilities of Europe united under Hitler exceeded the similar capabilities of the USSR many times over. In addition, from sources close to Roosevelt, Stalin knew about the decision of Roosevelt's “headquarters” - “If Russia attacks Germany, do not help either Germany or Russia. if Germany attacks the USSR, render all possible assistance to Russia. " Stalin did everything possible and impossible so that it was Hitler who would break loose and attack the USSR unjustifiedly. Moreover, it is clear that both the army and navy and the air force will suffer certain losses. He deliberately went to the loss of old equipment and the loss of personnel, alas, but politics is not done with white gloves. not allowing to open fire until two in the afternoon and to bomb the territory of Germany. Do not believe me? Read at least General Petrov’s memoirs, “The Past with Us,” everything is described bitterly, truthfully, and in great detail. But further, the military-political genius of Stalin came into conflict with his incompetence as a commander, with the desire to lead everything in the manner of a political leader, who crushed both the General Staff and the command. Yes, most likely Stalin decided that he would be able to stop Hitler at the turn of the Dnieper, alas ... This is another story. Stalin played his political game with Hitler and the allies all alone, carried its weight only on his shoulders. He did not share with any of the leaders of either the Red Army or the AUCPB. What, he had to tell everyone - let Hitler attack and bleed? Comrade Stalin could not and did not say that, just as he could not speak before the years 1936-1939, the members of the Politburo supposedly must clear the party leadership of the old internationalist-Leninists in order to preserve and industrialize the country, and not to scam it in senseless battles for " classmates' happiness around the world. If he had said so even to his inner circle, they would not have understood (to put it mildly), but most likely they would have simply removed him. Stalin, what he was, weaved his political lace very individually, alone, without devoting anyone to his plans. . This, by the way, came around after his death by the absence of a worthy successor. Strictly speaking, the defeat of 1991 has its bloody roots in the year 1941. But such is the story and you can’t rewrite it.
  19. VS
    VS 22 October 2017 15: 15 New
    0
    "" why did not Stalin begin mobilization in May 1941? He hoped for Hitler’s common sense, that he would start the war in 1942, and in every possible way sought to delay it ""

    - some sort of nonsense)))) And then about the zapadentsev in the Red Army, the author piled some garbage)))

    and here it is as the author imagines all the more ??))) - "" The army of Craiova is preparing a major provocation on the Soviet-German border. Imagine a breakthrough of hundreds, if not thousands, of armed men dressed in German uniforms across our border. ""

    The entire border strip with the Soviet Socialist Republic has been occupied by the Germans since the spring of the 41st, the Wehrmacht, and all of a sudden the AKovtsy appeared in German uniform and attack the USSR ???)))
  20. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 22 October 2017 15: 52 New
    +1
    Quote from the article:
    Did Stalin force on the evening of June 21, 1941, go to the theater the commander of the Western Front, Dmitry Pavlov, and the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Admiral Filipp Sergeyevich Oktyabrsky - to a concert in the theater. Lunacharsky, and then have a party with friends?

    The commander of the ZAPOVO Hero of the Soviet Union, Army General Pavlov and the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral Oktyabrsky, were not one of the thousands who showed that surprisingly friendly, irresistible love of stage art that Saturday evening, June 21, 1941.
    On that last pre-war evening of June 21, 1941, literally a few hours before the start of the war, several hours before the start of hostilities, hundreds of thousands of military personnel of the western border districts-fleets, namely from the commanders of the fleet districts, to the rank and file soldiers and sailors of the Red Army and the Red Army went to see performances and concerts.
    In small border towns, which professional artists were not able to cover, everyone went to watch movies, amateur performances, and went for walks in city parks and gardens. After the performances of the concerts, the generals, senior commander officers went to banquets with artists to take on the chest for the high art of the stage.
    So, for example, Lieutenant General of the Tank Troops Popel, while the corps commissar, the PMC of the 8th mechanized corps, wrote in his memoirs:
    After the concert, according to the hospitable army tradition, we, with the corps commander, Lieutenant General Dmitry Ivanovich Ryabyshev, invited the members of the ensemble for dinner. Home I returned only at the third hour (already June 22).

    And all this is literally a few hours before the start of hostilities.
    And such a situation was along the entire western border of the USSR from the Barents Sea (from the memoirs of the Ponochevy FM) to the Black Sea (from the memoirs of Kulakov NM).
    What kind of rebuff to the offensive of the Wehrmacht can be said if the overwhelming majority of generals, admirals, from commanders of naval districts to commanders of formations and divisions a few hours before the start of hostilities with the Wehrmacht, they were relaxing in theaters, having fun at banquets with artists. Moreover, the generals as if on command, having fun, regardless of which fleet, which district.
  21. Laurus
    Laurus 23 October 2017 18: 08 New
    0
    Great article! It is high time to put in the place of the lied liberals and the parallel-living bunkhrusts. It’s especially relevant now, when Europe is actively rewriting history, unfortunately, from the filing of our own liberals as well as the Bulcochrusts.
  22. Laurus
    Laurus 23 October 2017 18: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Ivan Tartugay
    Quote from the article:
    Did Stalin force on the evening of June 21, 1941, go to the theater the commander of the Western Front, Dmitry Pavlov, and the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Admiral Filipp Sergeyevich Oktyabrsky - to a concert in the theater. Lunacharsky, and then have a party with friends?

    The commander of the ZAPOVO Hero of the Soviet Union, Army General Pavlov and the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral Oktyabrsky, were not one of the thousands who showed that surprisingly friendly, irresistible love of stage art that Saturday evening, June 21, 1941.
    On that last pre-war evening of June 21, 1941, literally a few hours before the start of the war, several hours before the start of hostilities, hundreds of thousands of military personnel of the western border districts-fleets, namely from the commanders of the fleet districts, to the rank and file soldiers and sailors of the Red Army and the Red Army went to see performances and concerts.
    In small border towns, which professional artists were not able to cover, everyone went to watch movies, amateur performances, and went for walks in city parks and gardens. After the performances of the concerts, the generals, senior commander officers went to banquets with artists to take on the chest for the high art of the stage.
    So, for example, Lieutenant General of the Tank Troops Popel, while the corps commissar, the PMC of the 8th mechanized corps, wrote in his memoirs:
    After the concert, according to the hospitable army tradition, we, with the corps commander, Lieutenant General Dmitry Ivanovich Ryabyshev, invited the members of the ensemble for dinner. Home I returned only at the third hour (already June 22).

    And all this is literally a few hours before the start of hostilities.
    And such a situation was along the entire western border of the USSR from the Barents Sea (from the memoirs of the Ponochevy FM) to the Black Sea (from the memoirs of Kulakov NM).
    What kind of rebuff to the offensive of the Wehrmacht can be said if the overwhelming majority of generals, admirals, from commanders of naval districts to commanders of formations and divisions a few hours before the start of hostilities with the Wehrmacht, they were relaxing in theaters, having fun at banquets with artists. Moreover, the generals as if on command, having fun, regardless of which fleet, which district.

    So I am convinced once again that they didn’t shoot a lot, but too little, but they didn’t show themselves.
    1. Ivan Tartugai
      Ivan Tartugai 23 October 2017 19: 28 New
      0
      Quote: Laurel
      Well, they didn’t show themselves.

      Alas. These are not shot many people killed, millions of soldiers and commanders of the junior and middle management, millions of civilians.
  23. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 23 October 2017 19: 22 New
    0
    Quote from the article:
    Someone managed to locate a center for the preparation of artillery regiments of the High Command, 8 km from the border.

    Why write so that "Someone managed ...".
    Does the author, Alexander Shirokorad himself, do not know that the deployment of all military units and formations was carried out only according to the scheme developed at the General Staff of the Red Army, under the leadership of the General Staff. In a particular case, under the leadership of either the Hero of the Soviet Union, Army General Zhukov, or the Hero of the Soviet Union, Army General Meretskov. Moreover, the deployment of the Center for the preparation of artillery regiments of the High Command.
    The local command, deployed units and formations, even districts, may only ask to change the location, but at the same time it should provide more serious justification than comfortable housing for officers. Such reasons that in order to increase the comfort of officers' accommodation, to change the deployment of a unit or compound at that time were not considered at all and will not be considered now.
    The deployment of the Center for the preparation of artillery regiments of the High Command, 8 km from the state border, was developed by the General Staff of the Red Army and approved by its chief of staff, Hero of the Soviet Union, Army General Zhukov or Hero of the Soviet Union, Army General Meretskov. And not someone contrived.
  24. nnz226
    nnz226 1 March 2018 14: 48 New
    0
    As for Zhukov and his role in operations Uranus and Mars, I disagree. The author of "Uranus" was just Zhukov and Vasilevsky. And Zhukov was specially sent under Rzhev, so that he, leading the “Mars”, would not let a single division be transferred to help Paulus. That was done. And about the failure of “Mars” - this is Sudoplatov’s recollections, which explicitly states that the Germans made an info-throw for this operation, again with the goal of preventing the transfer of Wehrmacht divisions to Stalingrad. And the ancients said: "He who is forewarned is armed!" So blame Zhukov unsuccessful "Mars" is impossible. In addition: the Model’s 9 army after the “Mars” was never able to recover, and the German advance on the northern front of the Kursk Arc stalled on 5 day, and in the south it continued much longer, until Prokhorovka ...
  25. wooja
    wooja 8 August 2018 08: 35 New
    0
    Let's just say that there was a mess before the war ... that it was ... Stalin fought against him as his weak strengths ...., I believe the permanent struggle for power ended with the death of Stalin or his death .... Stalin was not a dictator, his powers were very limited ...., the military opposition is a reality, betrayal is more than likely ..., the political opposition is a permanent state ..., a split in senior leadership, a constant drain of information on Jewish and British lines. .., Victory in the war ...., Stalin's victory as a politician ..., after the war he was simply removed as the Moor who did his job ...