"Ground-worker" at the head of the VKS will cause irritation among military pilots

190
General Surovikin knows how to find an approach to his subordinates - one of his deputies shot himself right in his office, the other complained of a scuffle on his part. Nevertheless, as expected, from October Surovikin will lead the Military Space Forces (VKS). In this case, the general never in his life sat at the helm of the aircraft. What will his subordinates think about this?

"Ground-worker" at the head of the VKS will cause irritation among military pilots




The commander of the Russian grouping in Syria, 50-year-old Colonel-General Sergei Surovikin, will head VKS instead of Viktor Bondarev, who goes to the Federation Council, from October, RIA sources said on ThursdayNews"In the military department. According to sources, this information has already been brought to the leadership of the VKS.

"The Pathfinders" in aviation called "boots"

Among military pilots, the message about the possible appointment of Surovikin will be perceived with extreme irritation, a high-ranking reserve air force general told the VIEW newspaper.

“Surovikin never flew himself in his life, wore green shoulder straps all his life, which people with blue shoulder straps despise. He did not command any kind of troops entered into the VKS, and even did not stand next to them during his entire service. He did not study in the profile of any of the four former branches of the Armed Forces, which are now included in the videoconferencing system. To the Air Force headed by a man of motorized infantry? This never happened before, the source said. - Ground aviation in aviation is called "boots." Subordinates, of course, will carry out all the orders of Surovikin, but on the sly they will despise him. ”

The veteran of the war in Afghanistan, the former commander of the Air Force of the Baltic Military District of the USSR for Army Aviation, Major General Alexander Tsalko also perceives such an appointment without enthusiasm. "Not the best option, to be honest," he told the newspaper VIEW. “Maybe he is a good man. But in general, in an amicable way, it would be better for him to refuse this post. I would say that I do not understand in this matter. Do not sit in your sleigh - this is my position, ”he added.

“There are levels where the position is political, but the Minister of Defense and the Commander-in-Chief must be professionally prepared. Or at least listen to specialists, - said Tsalko. - This is absolutely special training should be: a pilot, preferably front-line aviation. An army commander, say, the past command levels of a regiment and division, is a person who will more or less competently manage. ”

Tsalko adds that with such assignments it happens that commanders have to train in elementary things. “The level is very high. He needs to delve into literally everything - the documents regulating flight work, combat training, life. So many features that he simply will not enter, ”the pilot explained.

In this regard, Tsalko noted: “The problem is that the combined-arms commander believes that he will receive certain knowledge with his appointment.” Recall, the commanding staff of such clans as the Navy, Airborne Forces and Military Space Forces (VVS), as a rule, are trained in specialized, rather than combined-arms military high schools.

“At the Zapad-81 exercises, the late General Valentin Varennikov twice dismissed me from the post of regiment commander because I did not allow the crew to fly in the fog. There are plenty of such cases when incompetent pressure is put on. It happens that even people die because of this incompetence. And such a commander in chief will have a problem. Will he be able to obey his profile deputies or not? I am afraid that it is not always "


- the general complained. Tsalko noted that if we take army aviation, which was repeatedly transferred from the Air Force to the ground forces and vice versa, the “paradox is that even some pilots began to incompetently command army aviation.”

“The military are bonded people. You suffer where you go. What will they show him in the pocket? Will execute commands. If there are bad teams, they will evade them, ”he explained.

The general is sure that few in Sukukin’s appointment in VKS will cause enthusiasm: “It’s not a flight envy. The fact is that a person does not understand. ”

A high-ranking source of the newspaper VIEW in the Russian Air Force recalls: each branch of service and branch of the armed forces has its own professional language for orders and instructions. It is with the help of this language that the generals set combat tasks to their subordinates, and for tank crews, the setting of the task sounds fundamentally different from that of sailors or pilots. The general-tanker simply does not know what words and concepts to make this or that order for, say, an air squadron. If only because of the appointment of General Surovikin, the VKS can expect problems with the management of forces.

New commander can attack fast


Whether it is a coincidence or not, it is not clear yet, but the appointment of Surovikin became known the next morning after the good news came from Syria - our troops were able to quickly break through the militant circle, which on Tuesday got a platoon of the Russian military police in Idlib province. 29 of the Russian military were freed from the encirclement. General Surovikin, by the way, the creator of the Russian military police, managed to organize the deblokad operation with lightning speed.

But Tsalko is sure: success in Syria is a common merit, after all, Surovikin is not the first commander of the group, and he headed the group quite recently, in June. “This is not the person who came to Syria at the most difficult time and took it all. He came to the farm that works, ”the source stressed.

In Syria, the commander has deputies in the areas. “There is a deputy for aviation, who gives him professional advice,” stressed Tsalko. According to him, the commander consults on how to act in each case. At the same time, Tsalko stressed, the deputy for aviation is protected by the fact that he is subordinate in parallel to the commander-in-chief of the VKS - that is, in case of disagreement he can turn to his own commander-in-chief.

The combat path began in the August coup.


Sergey Surovikin was born in Novosibirsk in 1966 year. In 1987, he graduated from the Omsk Higher Command Military School with a gold medal, in 1995, with honors - the Frunze Military Academy, and in 2002, also with distinction - the Academy of the General Staff.

For the first time, Surovikin got into the media field as a young captain. In the days of the August putsch of 1991, the battalion of the Taman Division under his command sent to patrol the center of Moscow, precisely during the incident with the BMP of his battalion on the Garden Ring and three young men were killed. Surovikin was arrested, but the charges against him were eventually dropped, as he was only following orders. Moreover, under the personal orders of Yeltsin, he was promoted to the rank.
From 1995, he was sent to Tajikistan, where he made his way from the battalion commander to the chief of staff of the division. In 2002, he was appointed commander of the 34 Simferopol Motorized Rifle Division. In 2004, he fought in Chechnya, after which he commanded the 20-th Guards Combined Arms Army. Then there was the deputy chief of the General Staff and the chief of staff of the Central Military District. Prior to his appointment in Syria, he led the Defense Ministry’s working group on the creation of a military police and then commanded the troops of the Eastern Military District.

Another noisy incident with Surovikin occurred while he was studying at the Frunze Academy - in 1995, he was sentenced to a year of imprisonment for wearing weapons and ammunition. However, it later turned out that he was framed and his conviction was lifted. In 2004, Surovikin's subordinate, Lieutenant Colonel Viktor Tsybizov, accused the head of beating for political reasons, but then he himself took the statement from the prosecutor's office.

In the same year, a tragic incident occurred - right in the presence of the division commander Surovikin in his presence his deputy for armaments Colonel Andrei Shtakal shot himself.


The new commander will be based on the profile deputies


The editor-in-chief of the Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine, Viktor Murakhovsky, suggests waiting for the official appointment of the new commander in chief. But in general, he does not see anything unusual in the fact that a general-arms general will lead a "foreign" type of military. “VKS is becoming an interspecific structure that includes many types of troops and works in the interests of all the armed forces, and not only in airspace,” Murakhovsky told the newspaper VIEW.

The expert recalled that Surovikin previously commanded the Eastern Military District: "This is also one of the largest interspecific operational units, which included the fleet, air force, air defense and all other branches of troops in the east of the country."

Murakhovsky noted that the new commander-in-chief will command different types of troops, in particular Long-Range Aviation and the Air Force itself, operational-tactical aviation, and he already has such experience. After all, the grouping in Syria includes air defense, ground forces and special operations forces. Periodically appear off the coast of Syria and the forces of the Navy, which are operatively subordinate to the commander at the time of presence. Murakhovsky credits Surovikin with the success of the Russian aviation group in Syria.

The training of flight personnel and the use of aviation will be handled by certain people, Murakhovsky explained: for example, the deputy commander-in-chief for aviation. The use of various types of troops is planned by a special headquarters. “The commander-in-chief of the VKS is now the person who organizes the training and combat use of interspecific weapon systems operating in the air and in space,” he explained. The expert does not expect any indignation from the pilots of the VKS new appointment. “Those who are indignant in the army are retiring,” he concluded.

As you know, the military are conservative and do not like change. Similar misinterpretations were heard in the officer corps in the spring of 2004, when Anatoly Serdyukov, a tax service official distant from the army, was appointed defense minister. Since his official biography included the position of director of a furniture store, many officers initially called him Taburetkin.

However, over time, Serdyukov became up to date and even launched a large-scale reform. On the eve of the "five-day war" almost no one remembered his furniture past. And the reforms begun by him forever changed the appearance of our army, and after years even many of his critics admit that the reforms were in many ways correct.
190 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +18
    22 September 2017 06: 14
    Wonderful are your deeds, Lord ... The appointment of "Taburetkin ..!
    1. Maz
      +5
      22 September 2017 08: 00
      No gods burn pots, and since when did aviation plan to be a separate species without infantry support. It is the infantry Vanya who decides where he needs to smash and how
      1. +9
        22 September 2017 08: 33
        Quote: Maz
        and since when did aviation plan to be a separate species without infantry support.

        In modern warfare. Take the experience of using American aviation in all recent conflicts? Who owns the sky that owns the situation on the TVD, in the operational and strategic context.
        1. +3
          22 September 2017 10: 32
          Iraq could only be taken after ground operation
          1. +8
            22 September 2017 11: 11
            Pralno, all pilots in a bayonet attack on tanks. Nefig pants sit in the cockpit of aircraft ...
            Taburetkin had the task of destroying the Armed Forces.
            For this general, perhaps even beyond his will simply because of his incompetence, the task will be to destroy physically all pilots who have gained experience in military operations in Syria and in exercises.
            Very useful in the face of the threat of war with the United States and NATO, a very useful and necessary matter. drinks
            1. +1
              22 September 2017 11: 24
              Pralno, all pilots in a bayonet attack on tanks. Nefig pants sit in the cockpit of aircraft ...
              Taburetkin had the task of destroying the Armed Forces.
              For this general, perhaps even beyond his will simply because of his incompetence, the task will be to destroy physically all pilots who have gained experience in military operations in Syria and in exercises.
              Very useful in the face of the threat of war with the United States and NATO, a very useful and necessary matter.


              crying
            2. GAF
              +4
              22 September 2017 12: 06
              Quote: Vovan Petrov
              Taburetkin had the task of destroying the Armed Forces.

              Think right. They destroyed the "old" army, and after it was replaced by Shoigu, just a year or two later, they began to say that our army seemed to be quite decent - no worse than others. Why would it be, so suddenly?
              1. 0
                22 September 2017 15: 38
                Why would it be, so suddenly?


                it `s Magic wassat
              2. 0
                22 September 2017 18: 30
                and who would dare to argue with the "gray" cardinal.
            3. 0
              25 September 2017 10: 42
              Quote: Vovan Petrov
              Pralno, all pilots in a bayonet attack on tanks. Nefig pants sit in the cockpit of aircraft ...
              Taburetkin had the task of destroying the Armed Forces.
              For this general, perhaps even beyond his will simply because of his incompetence, the task will be to destroy physically all pilots who have gained experience in military operations in Syria and in exercises.
              Very useful in the face of the threat of war with the United States and NATO, a very useful and necessary matter. drinks

              In modern reality, the most important criterion for the appointment is: Loyalty to the leadership of the country
              1. +2
                26 September 2017 12: 47
                Quote: killganoff
                In modern reality, the most important criterion for the appointment is: Loyalty to the leadership of the country

                In addition to your "loyalty". Professionalism and knowledge are needed, so this general has this knowledge. There are so many, unlike those who comment here.
            4. +1
              26 September 2017 12: 46
              Quote: Vovan Petrov
              For this general, perhaps even beyond his will simply because of his incompetence, the task will be to destroy physically all pilots who have gained experience in military operations in Syria and in exercises.

              You thought up this stupidity yourself or recommended speculation. Gossip and dirt to write to Surovikin?
          2. +4
            22 September 2017 12: 07
            Quote: LAWNER
            Iraq could only be taken after ground operation

            Of course, only by first destroying from the air all the significant strategic objects.
        2. +2
          22 September 2017 13: 04
          And still, infantry cannot do without the city. Infantry takes aviation.
          1. +4
            23 September 2017 09: 46
            Quote: Lex.
            And still, infantry cannot do without the city. Infantry takes aviation.

            I agree with you! And will they be needed - these cities?
      2. +5
        22 September 2017 08: 49
        Quote: Maz
        It is the infantry Vanya who decides where he needs to smash and how


        Nicknamed TABURETKIN!

        I now occupy the post of technical leader in civilian life with a not quite specialized military-technical education.

        Yes, I'm learning again; Yes, I listen to deputies competent in technical matters; yes, I cope with the tasks and problem situations; Yes, our organization is already the third year the best among 12 such in the holding; but I clearly understand - in every place there should be a trained professional leader, and not just a professional leader, next to the profession, especially in such a large and specific "organization" as the VKS !!!!!!
        1. +3
          22 September 2017 10: 27
          Dear Titsen. With your phrase: "... in every place there should be a trained professional leader ..." - many Russian citizens will agree. I do not understand the motives of the people who promote S. Surovikin to the leadership of the videoconferencing. As a commander of the VKS, who has no experience in these troops, he will be able to make the right decision in an acute special situation, when at this moment mobilization of all his knowledge, experience and professional intuition is needed. Will he be able to take responsibility in making a difficult but correct decision. Or pass the decision to his deputies. (I would not really like to have complex heart surgery done by an ophthalmologist surgeon, albeit of the highest qualification category).
      3. +9
        22 September 2017 09: 29
        About 15 years ago, a chief was appointed to our department. In fact, an absolute zero, but was a relative of the boss. Not only did he not understand anything, but with a thoughtful mine gave an indication of what and how to do. The staff at heart sent him to hell and did everything in their own way.
        1. +3
          22 September 2017 11: 18
          Bad orders must be carried out with double zeal.
      4. +7
        22 September 2017 10: 49
        Quote: Maz
        It’s the infantry Vanya who decides where he needs to smash and How

        Where it’s possible, but it’s better not to teach the infantry Van the pilot ... because the infantry Vanya has no idea about this ... recourse
        And at the expense of the author I have questions, with what fright he decided,
        that all his life he wore green epaulets that people with blue epaulets despise
        Here the author grabbed by no means, I have doubts that he was a military at all, for no one canceled the military brotherhood, and besides respect for the infantry I had no other feelings .... request hi
        1. +10
          22 September 2017 11: 37
          it also somehow shrieked - the army - it is the army, they drank all the way for the commonwealth of arms. but the cakes should still bake a pie. Well, what about aviation generals?
          1. +7
            22 September 2017 11: 49
            Quote: novel xnumx
            it also somehow shrieked - the army - it is the army, they drank all the way for the commonwealth of arms. but the cakes should still bake a pie. Well, what about aviation generals?

            Yes, Roman ..., all this is sad, but it was already. At one time, air defense was transferred from the Air Force to the army, so it came to almost flying in boots and a harness and complaints about treads on pneumatics, army generals presented when inspecting equipment. So what about the pastry, this is vital ... hi
        2. +5
          22 September 2017 13: 06
          Where it’s possible, but it’s better not to teach the infantry Van the pilot ... because the infantry Vanya has no idea about this ...
          And at the expense of the author I have questions, with what fright he decided
          I think he’ll have pilots, Stalin didn’t finish military academies, but he understood better than some generals
          1. +3
            22 September 2017 13: 16
            Quote: Lex.
            I think he’ll have pilots, Stalin didn’t finish military academies, but he understood it no worse some generals

            All the same, Stalin, having considered himself versed in the initial period of the war ..., then he gave the reins to professionals and had this not happened, unprepared breakthroughs and boilers until the end of the war could not have been avoided. Well, there is no “seven spans in the forehead" ... The only hope is that Stalin’s lessons, Sergei Surovikin knows, however, the sad experience of these incidents is present and precisely because of the opinion that I know better how you concluded:
            Stalin did not finish military academies, but he understood no worse than some generals
            hi
            1. +3
              22 September 2017 13: 26
              It’s good that not the other way around the flyer was not appointed to command the infantry. Such examples were not very successful.
              1. +1
                22 September 2017 13: 30
                Quote: Lex.
                It’s good that not the other way around the flyer was not appointed to command the infantry. Such examples were not very successful.

                I think he would refuse ... although during the Second World War there were quite a few in partisan detachments, well this is a necessity ... So time will tell .... recourse hi
              2. +5
                22 September 2017 15: 32
                Such examples were only among the politicians. They are on the drum, where to chat.
        3. 0
          22 September 2017 20: 18
          Quote: NIKNN
          And at the expense of the author I have questions, with what fright he decided,
          that he wore all his life green shoulder straps that people with blue epaulets despise
          Here, the author grabbed by no means


          It’s also great for me by hearing and by the eyes ... If I wanted to reinforce the negativity of the appointment of the combined arms soldier as the Commander of the VKS, then on the contrary - I smeared everything ... or smeared it, smeared it ...
      5. +1
        22 September 2017 17: 18
        to be a separate species without infantry support. It’s not the infantry that supports Aviation. Just the opposite. The infantry will never understand the psychology and service in Aviation itself. The brains for another are sharpened. I don’t like it.
      6. +1
        23 September 2017 22: 17
        Everybody wants to reanimate the “Duet doctrine”, which turned out to be untenable a long time ago ... Until the “soldier’s boots” enter the liberated (or conquered) territory, then there’s nothing to say about control ... Examples from all wars and military conflicts of 20 and already 21-th centuries abound ....
      7. 0
        24 September 2017 12: 00
        In terms of technical literacy, aviation and navy have always been higher than infantry.
    2. +3
      22 September 2017 11: 09
      His kharya Auger says a lot - the real "Boot"
      1. +2
        26 September 2017 12: 50
        Quote: Vadim237
        His kharya Auger says a lot

        What is yours talking about? Yours is just not talking, she is spewing out something not related to articulate speech and speech in general.
        And as regards Surovikin, then you can’t compete with him under any circumstances. As for example with Gerasimov.
    3. +2
      22 September 2017 11: 58
      And as he does not serve the Army General Shoigu, the RF Armed Forces directs, sprinkles on the map at night, personally develops operations and exercises.
      1. +4
        22 September 2017 12: 41
        Dear, like tremendousness, you do not understand the essence of the post of Minister of Defense. (And it is historically somewhat different in Russia). Our minister is, first and foremost, an organizational and supply figure. And poring over maps and doing combat training is the General Staff’s business, as well as the development of military operations. Look at the period of the Great Patriotic War, about the people's commissar of defense — almost silence (in terms of operations) —all the General Staff.
    4. +1
      22 September 2017 12: 13
      You’ll never see, the tanker is commanding the fleet on Ruin, which is worse than Russia, there are also talents here. Drive a couple of times to the Yak-130, hand over the letnab’s certificate and let him command. I had to pass exams in the fleet, but this one will pass in aviation!
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 12: 47
        We have a slightly different situation. So far, the fleet consists of almost all of the floating tanks, so everything is in place. What will happen next - time will tell.
    5. +1
      22 September 2017 14: 29
      Quote: 210ox
      Wonderful are your deeds, Lord ... The appointment of "Taburetkin ..!

      But Zhukov was a non-commissioner simple, and Stalin generally studied at the seminary ...
    6. 0
      26 September 2017 12: 41
      Quote: 210ox
      Wonderful are your deeds, Lord ... The appointment of "Taburetkin ..!

      Only one who has nothing to do with the All-Russian Federation, does not have, and does not understand anything in essence in the affairs of the Armed Forces can saturate.
      Among the general corps, there are few such as S. Surovikin, a brilliant professional in his field.
  2. +13
    22 September 2017 06: 14
    one of his deputies shot himself in his office, the other complained about scuffle on his part

    If this is really true, it is very surprising that this general is being promoted rather than pushed for such incidents. In my opinion, aviation should be commanded by an aviation professional.
    1. +4
      22 September 2017 06: 29
      It is hoped that this military leader will go up the career ladder very quickly, and without prejudice to the defense capabilities of the VKS.RF. The chief of the General Staff knows better who to appoint. He will answer before the commander in chief. We'll see.
      1. 0
        22 September 2017 10: 45
        At 32, the colonel and the chief of staff of the motto !!! This can become a generalissimo)))
        1. +1
          22 September 2017 20: 24
          Quote: LAWNER
          At 32, the colonel and the chief of staff of the motto !!! This can become a generalissimo)))


          Look at how old he became captain of the battalion commander ... and in five (!!!) years, receiving early ranks, he became the chief of staff of the division ...
          I don’t know, maybe really - a new, modern Suvorov-Kutuzov ??? request lol
          1. +2
            26 September 2017 12: 55
            Quote: weksha50
            I don’t know, maybe indeed - a new, modern Suvorov-Kutuzov

            I must tell you that in the position of K42 of the Guards, MSS.S. Surovikin showed himself the best. I screamed about his strong temper and I was supposedly prone to insulting subordinates — bullshit and a lie.
            If the commander of someone, for which he was scolding someone, was always extremely correct, but very, very intelligible, the division tried to fulfill his commands without additional kicks and urges.
            Already someone can definitely make a complaint regarding the mat and simply dishonesty, so this is to General Makarevich, now in the academy who is becoming the boss, because he was a boor and he took people for an empty place ..
            1. +1
              27 September 2017 19: 37
              Quote: Pancir026
              Already someone can definitely make a complaint regarding the mat and simply dishonesty, so this is to General Makarevich, now in the academy who is becoming the boss, because he was a boor and he took people for an empty place ..


              Well, I wrote about Makarevich in one of my comments ... I completely agree with you ...
              PS And is he still serving? Until they take out their feet forward ???
              1. 0
                28 September 2017 08: 11
                Quote: weksha50
                Does he still serve?

                Serves ... apparently and such are needed .. for some reason.
      2. +1
        22 September 2017 10: 49
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        RF. The chief of the General Staff knows better who to appoint. He will answer in front of the commander in chief. Let's see.

        Yes, there’s nothing to see here - the appointment of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is the competence of the GDP, and not the NSS and even the Minister ... Proposals are being prepared for candidates (with the participation of the Presidential Administration), and the decision on the appointment is made by Putin as Supreme ...
        As for specifically the candidacy of Surovikin, I would like to give a long-standing example with the appointment of Minister Ustinov. Dmitry Fedorovich led the defense industry complex a lot and successfully, and he was called a man in his place ... However, as a minister, against the background of professionals, he looked mildly pale and did not use special authority in the troops. Even his appearance with glasses, but with a cap on his side, caused ironic smirks ...
      3. 0
        22 September 2017 19: 58
        But would he file his foot?
    2. +2
      22 September 2017 14: 47
      Quote: rotmistr60
      If this is really true, it is very surprising that this general is being promoted rather than pushed for such incidents. In my opinion, aviation should be commanded by an aviation professional.

      more than that - were there really no worthy people in aviation and astronautics ?! And this is sadness!
      But - not long ago - the officer said to me: - you come to O. Kadrov, and there the price list of the job prices ... a joke of humor, of course, but - in his eyes the sad truth. This is true.
  3. +1
    22 September 2017 06: 18
    Fine. We, too., The Chechens at one time appointed the general practitioner as director of the Pervouralsky pipe-rolling plant. Management and all. So it is here: advisers, advisors.
    It seems like it's just for a start, and there it’s trampling higher. Half a year it will last ...
    1. +4
      22 September 2017 09: 02
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      It seems like it's just for a start, and there it’s trampling higher. Half a year it will last ...


      Where will it trample?

      US President?

      VKS is not a stepping stone to growth - it will be reinsured to the full and VKS will stop flying!
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 10: 21
        Quote: Titsen
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        It seems like it's just for a start, and there it’s trampling higher. Half a year it will last ...


        Where will it trample?
        US President?
        VKS is not a stepping stone to growth - it will be reinsured to the full and VKS will stop flying!

        What a hot one!
        And horizontally? If the boot steers the pilots then it will cope with the seaman. And the Vartical, so there is the Minister of Defense, and he will learn languages, so "on a global scale" ...
  4. +1
    22 September 2017 06: 38
    Cadres decide everything. Stalin)))
    1. +2
      22 September 2017 10: 03
      Personnel officers have long reinterpreted this statement))
      Now it looks like this: Cadres decide - and that’s it!
      1. 0
        22 September 2017 19: 38
        Some say: "Everything is decided in frames."
  5. +14
    22 September 2017 06: 39
    In fact, he pays such a position - the aviation despises the infantry! Do they live in different countries? What kind of stupidity? For this you need to remove epaulettes and resign without pension! !!! This stupid clan system, where some put themselves above others is to the detriment of the country's defense, for this it is necessary to drive out of the army without pity! I do not like this or that officer - appeal his actions! But, putting yourself above other types of troops is a shame and stupidity! !!
    1. +14
      22 September 2017 07: 56
      Quote: Herkulesich
      In fact, he pays such a position - the aviation despises the infantry! Do they live in different countries? What kind of stupidity? For this you need to remove epaulettes and resign without pension! !!! This stupid clan system, where some put themselves above others is to the detriment of the country's defense, for this it is necessary to drive out of the army without pity! I do not like this or that officer - appeal his actions! But, putting yourself above other types of troops is a shame and stupidity! !!

      Tell me, are you personally ready to take a passenger on a plane controlled by a tanker? Please note that your refusal will harm the defense of the country!
      1. +3
        22 September 2017 12: 55
        A person writes to you about the fact that contempt of aviation for infantry unacceptable, and you answered him about the tankman at the controls of the aircraft.
        Do not mix the themes of blood, de..ma, sand and sugar
      2. +2
        22 September 2017 20: 27
        Quote: Mik13
        Tell me, are you personally ready to take a passenger on a plane controlled by a tanker? Please note that your refusal will harm the defense of the country!



        Um ... I killed him on the spot ... Ahem ... simple and intelligible ... hi
    2. +1
      22 September 2017 08: 53
      Dear, you would know how many people died from the dullness of the infantry in plane crashes ...
      1. 0
        22 September 2017 11: 14
        Friendly fire - upper on the lower and lower on the upper.
    3. 0
      25 September 2017 10: 43
      It is necessary, it is necessary, but this is a tradition that has been very much watched since time immemorial. So the Airborne Forces and Special Forces despise the most universal and basic kind of troops, the "Queen of Roads and Fields" motorized infantry since very old Soviet times.

      The command, too, seems to despise the motorized infantry, and therefore everyone has their own holidays, the Airborne Forces, even the political leaders and accountants, and the backbone of the army does not.
  6. +11
    22 September 2017 06: 43
    A non-professional at the head of any organization - "grief in the family." Judging by my office: in Moscow they put at the head of the network “professional managers”, they are also “effective managers”. People from anywhere: Olympstroy, NTV +, God knows what ... They blew up the staff in Moscow, but they require a reduction in staff in the regions. A reasonable question arises - what will you eat if you reduce those who earn money? In the regions, the salary is not at all the same as in Moscow. To feed one "miniedger" in the head office, you need to cut 10 people on the periphery. I feel that they will bring the office to the handle.
    I am not going to judge VKS, but I assume that the situation in this case is similar.
    1. +5
      22 September 2017 08: 04
      We inflated the staff in Moscow, but they require a reduction in employees in the regions.
      ... The same crap ... and we ...
      1. +4
        22 September 2017 09: 09
        Quote: parusnik
        We inflated the staff in Moscow, but they require a reduction in employees in the regions.
        ... The same crap ... and we ...


        And we have St. Petersburg-based "effective managers" have reduced the engineering and working staff!
      2. +5
        22 September 2017 15: 42
        At Novocherkassk, we were also planted by the rector of the Polytechnic University one "effective manager." So he took and canceled such a subject as SoproMat, that is, he abolished the main discipline in the training of future engineers. And why now wonder?
        1. 0
          22 September 2017 20: 33
          Quote: Dedall
          he took and canceled such a subject as SoproMat, that is, he abolished the main discipline in the training of future engineers



          Chegoooooo ?????
          For that matter, there are educational standards ... It was not in vain during the Soviet era that students of various universities, including doctors, and who the hell knows, studied the history of the CPSU, Marxist-Leninist philosophy, political economy and scientific communism ... Because otherwise - you will not receive a diploma of higher education ...
          So here ... In the universities of communication and electronics - this is the IERC (theory of electro-radio circuits, it’s still an infection) ... In technical universities - SOPROMAT .... What the hell of a dog engineer will turn out in the Polytechnic if there is no incrimination? ?? request fool
          So in no way could the rector at the Polytechnic University personally abolish the incrimination ...
          Or the world is crazy ...
  7. +7
    22 September 2017 06: 45
    Ivan Andreevich Krylov has a good fable about the artist and the shoemaker and there are good words there: "trouble, as the bootman starts to tread his boots, and bake the cakes with pies." In any case, professionalism is needed
    1. +10
      22 September 2017 08: 16
      I would like to start with the fact that our best defense minister of all time, Comrade Shoigu, did not serve in the army for a day and became the minister of defense. Incidentally, he very interestingly headed the Ministry of Emergencies. So there is nothing to be surprised at; what is pop. such is the coming.
      1. +2
        22 September 2017 20: 37
        Quote: captain
        I would like to start with the fact that our best defense minister of all time, Comrade Shoigu, did not serve in the army for a day and became the minister of defense.



        Yes, because we have already spoken on this subject ... The Minister of Defense - in peacetime, consider the supply manager, manager, executive director - whatever you want to call him ... Basically, it solves general issues ...
        The General Staff is engaged in combat training in peacetime and in the management of military operations in wartime.
        With the outbreak of hostilities, the position of the MO is automatically abolished ...
        Look, half of the ministers of defense in the world will soon be women ...
        Here the problem is somewhat different: the Moscow Region is the supply manager ... But the Commander-in-Chief of the troops didn’t just have to be the supply manager ... And even more so - an eHektive manager ...
      2. 0
        23 September 2017 04: 06
        Like :::: and a cook can rule the state ???
      3. 0
        23 September 2017 19: 27
        Quote: captain
        our best defense minister of all time, comrade Shoigu

        And who gave him such a title?
    2. +1
      22 September 2017 08: 49
      and the cobbler’s oven pies
    3. +4
      22 September 2017 09: 51
      In any case, professionalism is needed
      By the way, yes, a little on a different topic, but the president may be the one who was already the president.
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 10: 31
        Quote: Gardamir
        In any case, professionalism is needed
        By the way, yes, a little on a different topic, but the president may be the one who was already the president.

        Is there a hint of Gorbachev? Would you like?
        1. +1
          22 September 2017 12: 11
          Is there a hint of Gorbachev?
          liberalism is not an ideology; it is a special state of the brain. You have liberalism. Because for example I know two presidents of Russia Financial. And one of them has already quietly started an election campaign.
          1. 0
            22 September 2017 13: 07
            sarcasm and thin trolling do not pass here)))
            1. +1
              22 September 2017 16: 11
              Quote: Lnglr
              sarcasm and thin trolling do not pass here)))

              The enemy will not pass! But there is a clear "excess on the ground."
              "Because of people like you, we are called" musars "(some kind of movie).
              And what if the idea sits with a hot nail in my head and does not let me sleep. Sorry, colleague.
  8. +5
    22 September 2017 07: 11
    Really strange. Probably an effective manager.
    1. +3
      22 September 2017 09: 10
      Quote: Ken71
      Probably an effective manager.


      This is the scariest set of words in modern Russia!

      BYAD ...
    2. 0
      22 September 2017 11: 16
      No, an effective defense manager, with cow-sized cake stars
  9. +5
    22 September 2017 07: 47
    Yes Serdyukov is a very good example, one hope for deputies, deputies should be professionals, and YOUR man should command, this is the principle of our personnel policy.
    1. 0
      22 September 2017 09: 13
      Quote: Alex66
      one hope for deputies, deputies should be professionals,


      But what about the fear for their native fifth point?

      Do you think that professionalism will overcome this fear?

      That is unlikely.

      Very sad, but true.

      As an example, remember Taburetkin - all Moscow Region did not resign!
  10. +2
    22 September 2017 08: 06
    Probably your man .. earned the trust of the Supreme ... loyal people are needed at the posts ..
    1. +10
      22 September 2017 08: 49
      "The smart ones do not need us, the true ones need us" (It is difficult to be a god)
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 10: 10
        Here, here ... that's what I meant ...
  11. +7
    22 September 2017 08: 09
    Quote: Alex66
    Yes Serdyukov is a very good example, one hope for deputies, deputies should be professionals, and YOUR man should command, this is the principle of our personnel policy.

    You're right. And to be completely honest (at least in front of you), the respected Sergey Kozhugetovich is also not a professional military man. Nevertheless, as a leader - the best kmk of all the post-Soviet era municipalities
    1. +3
      22 September 2017 08: 30
      Your truth, the author and commentators delicately bypass the topic of appointing S.K.Shoygu as defense minister. wink
      However, sometimes the idea arises that A.E. Serdyukov also cannot be judged unambiguously. A man from the outside was needed to withstand the clan struggle among the military. And now the pilots are buzzing against the “boot”. If only they did not sabotage ...
      And yes, scuffle is not very good ...
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 09: 49
        resist the clan struggle among the military
        That is, the "honest" Serdyukov came and put things in order? Nude Nude! Serdyukov simply created his clan and redistributed the flows in the right direction.
        1. +1
          22 September 2017 09: 56
          Nu-nu - these are girls without clothes wink Two.
          You do not ascribe your thoughts to me, please ...
          1. 0
            22 September 2017 12: 16
            You do not ascribe your thoughts to me, please ...
            What is a magnetic storm? You said that the Serdyukov clan defeated the military clans. That's all.
            1. 0
              22 September 2017 13: 12
              But this I did not say:
              That is, the "honest" Serdyukov came and put things in order?

              And about the victory in the clone war, forgive the clans, I also did not write anything ...
              Do you understand?
              1. 0
                22 September 2017 17: 00
                And about the victory in the clone war, forgive the clans, I also did not write anything ...
                and this?
                A man from the outside was needed to withstand the clan struggle among the military.
                1. 0
                  22 September 2017 18: 17
                  clan Serdyukov defeated military clans

                  You know, you have a lot of comments. It seems to me that this is reflected in their quality. Please re-read mine and yours ... Something wrong has begun on your part. Let's stop ..
    2. +4
      22 September 2017 09: 54
      Quote: Old26
      You're right. And to be completely honest (at least in front of you), the respected Sergey Kozhugetovich is also not a professional military man. Nevertheless, as a leader - the best kmk of all the post-Soviet era municipalities

      Unfortunately, this is not at all because Shoigu is so outstanding from himself, but because all his predecessors were already quite complete bullshit ...
  12. +5
    22 September 2017 08: 24
    However, over time, Serdyukov entered the course of affairs and even launched a large-scale reform

    And he began to equate his pocket with the state
    1. +2
      22 September 2017 08: 48
      As stated in the classic film "confuses its wool with the state"
      1. +2
        22 September 2017 08: 50
        That's right - thanks to the classics of Soviet cinema!
  13. +6
    22 September 2017 08: 25
    Cases when the land leaders led the Air Force happened. However, this is a big risk and not always justified.
  14. +2
    22 September 2017 08: 26
    Among military pilots, the message about the possible appointment of Surovikin will be received with extreme irritation

    Why don’t you get annoyed when you know that you are ruled by an ignoramus and an amateur
    1. +2
      22 September 2017 08: 51
      How are you, uh ... Printed ...
      That is, for example, some aviation electronics specialist can easily despise and ignore his commander-in-chief, because this commander-in-chief only knows how to fly, and in the circuits and signals, an ignoramus and an amateur? wink Almost a joke ...
      1. +8
        22 September 2017 08: 59
        In aviation, specialists of all ranks are working on a common task, but each in its own profile. There are pilots, navigators, engineers and technicians of various specialties. Each solves his own circle of tasks. The leader cannot simultaneously be a specialist in all areas, therefore usually those who are prepared to carry out the main final task command. In the Air Force, this is a pilot. In the USSR and then in its former republics, a pilot was always at the head of aviation.
        Now imagine that this task was assigned to the tanker
        1. +3
          22 September 2017 09: 22
          What is the main final task for the commander of the VKS? By the way, why not an astronaut, because the forces are military-space? wink
          I can understand your indignation as an aviator (restrained professional pride there and all that), but from the point of view of control systems I can’t approve of your attack.
          1. +5
            22 September 2017 09: 39
            Military pilots are the basis of the formation of the cosmonaut corps. Cosmonaut Colonel General VV Kovalenok he served in the BTA, then in the cosmonaut corps, after in Long-Range Aviation, and then was the head of the VVIA named after N.E. Zhukovsky. This is an example of an astronaut who served in senior positions in the Air Force.
            A control system is only effective when the leader has at least initial concepts about the control object hi
            1. +3
              22 September 2017 09: 52
              A good example. Why was the Commander-in-Chief of the VKS, but was not in space? You can talk endlessly.
              In this case, the control object is one of the types of armed forces. And the colonel general, it seems to me, "has a clue."
              1. +3
                22 September 2017 10: 02
                In principle, yes, the discussion is endless. In Ukraine, the Navy commander is also a tanker
              2. +4
                22 September 2017 10: 32
                Perhaps the concept has, but most likely amateurish. They told.
                One of the newly built airfields in the Rostov Region (built for a rather long time) was visited by the then Air Defense Group General named Tretyak. Being a tanker, he was sneezed on aviation specifics. And so, climbing up the still-smelling KDP, he looked at the top of the strip, central locking, taxiing. And he sighed in disappointment: "Eh ... What a wonderful tankodrome would have been here!"
              3. +3
                22 September 2017 15: 56
                For pilots, one of the basics of the service is to inspect the equipment entrusted to him before departure. This is a whole ritual. And if the pilot sees a malfunction, then only he can decide whether to fly him on an aircraft, or refuse. And the land general will never understand this.
                And since cadet times, the pilot has been taught that he decides his suitability for departure by himself. This is one of the basic principles of flight training. But the "policeman" also never understand this. “Your mother” will bark and the pilot will fly with a runny nose or indigestion. At altitude, he will lose consciousness from pain in the ear or an attack of intestinal colic. The simple "infantry" will never understand this.
                1. 0
                  28 September 2017 20: 49
                  And the infantryman doesn’t care at all damn the disease, just go ahead and that's it.
        2. +1
          22 September 2017 23: 46
          Quote: pvv113
          In the Air Force it's a pilot

          The pilot should only fly, fly and perform a combat mission. Today, there are about thirty staff members of all kinds of services per crew. In the British Air Force during the war, the commander of the air base was not a pilot and everything worked.
          1. +1
            23 September 2017 01: 33
            The commander leads the unit entrusted to him (crew, squad, squadron, regiment, etc.). The commander, having gone through all these steps of the hierarchy, must plan the execution of tasks not only by units and units, but also by individual units and crews.
            By the way, in the 80s, there were more than 70 people per long-range aviation ship, including the flight crew, ITS, and the personnel of higher headquarters and support units.
            And by the way, the structure of the British Air Force is different from ours, it is possible that it was commanded by the equivalent of our base commander or OBATO
  15. +1
    22 September 2017 08: 46
    Well, if the author of the article compares (probably not without reason) Surovikin with Marshal Taburetkin, and praises both of them, then this is a very subtle trolling. And the role of Taburetkin in the 08.08.08 war and all its "reforms" requires a separate consideration.
    1. +2
      22 September 2017 08: 52
      As far as I remember, Serdyukov was even awarded the Order lol For heroism or what?
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 11: 20
        He was awarded the women instead of the order.
        1. +1
          22 September 2017 11: 48
          This ruined him lol
          1. 0
            22 September 2017 12: 43
            How it ruined - now he is one of the directors of Rosvertol, and his women are at large and they live happily ever after.
            1. +1
              22 September 2017 12: 52
              Low position compared to the Minister of Defense
      2. +1
        22 September 2017 20: 56
        Naturally, for heroism, only for such a case it was necessary to invent a special order from waste from furniture production - it itself belongs to furniture waste.
        1. +2
          22 September 2017 21: 16
          For such - the order on the chest with a twist on the back wink
  16. +1
    22 September 2017 08: 54
    It is urgent to appoint the submariner's commander-in-chief for the VKS !!!
    1. +1
      22 September 2017 11: 21
      For any start-up, it is necessary to put in the traders.
    2. +6
      22 September 2017 11: 44
      let the submariner command tankers - there is something in common
  17. 0
    22 September 2017 09: 12
    And what does Comrade Surovikin himself think about this?
  18. +3
    22 September 2017 09: 20
    Look, the Great Minister of Defense and the Great Commander-in-Chief were indignant, they know what they do, they know who to appoint. . Silent!
    1. +1
      22 September 2017 10: 33
      Quote: Gardamir
      Look, the Great Minister of Defense and the Great Commander-in-Chief were indignant, they know what they do, they know who to appoint. . Silent!

      So Yes. There is!
      And with a bubble under the covers and under the bed, can I?
      1. 0
        22 September 2017 12: 19
        And with a bubble under the covers and under the bed, can I?
        with this?..

        1. 0
          22 September 2017 16: 58
          Quote: Gardamir
          And with a bubble under the covers and under the bed, can I?
          with this?..


          Yes, you only with this. But shake before use!
    2. 0
      23 September 2017 04: 16
      Let’s wait .... if he starts to prove with soldier’s souls that this is his place, then he is Gnus. If silently, like a donkey, he will drag this load (and he is not a small Cosmos, Aviation, Science) not uphill but uphill, then his place right.
  19. 0
    22 September 2017 09: 30
    The Turkish precedent in the head is securely stuck.
  20. +2
    22 September 2017 09: 55
    A logical continuation would be the appointment of a VKS general to the post of commander in chief of the ground forces.
    And no one would be left offended.
  21. 0
    22 September 2017 10: 40
    I don’t think it’s worth discussing it. if you take such a step it is not just. perhaps as an option that his main task is to restore order in management. and his character and skills are needed for this.
    1. +2
      22 September 2017 11: 26
      He has really good professional skills in communicating with his subordinates - muzzles to break and bring subordinates to suicide - but the person is good, positive.
      1. 0
        22 September 2017 11: 44
        Well, firstly, bringing to suicide is a criminal offense and he is not convicted. which means this is no more speculation. secondly, to fill the face are also words. although even if this is the case, I personally do not mind.
        1. 0
          22 September 2017 12: 41
          "But he is not condemned." Well, you know we have people like this, for such things it’s very difficult to condemn and sentence - the guy is definitely with extensive connections.
          1. 0
            22 September 2017 13: 24
            this is from the area that all blondes are fools.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. +3
    22 September 2017 11: 31
    all his life he wore green epaulets, which people with blue epaulets despise.

    What is it like??????????????????????????????????????????
  24. +1
    22 September 2017 12: 44
    Not otherwise than Serdyukovshchina returns. How can I put the infantryman at the head of the VKS. It's all the same. What to put the pilot at the helm of the ship. Probably this general has an excellent pusher in the top leadership. I won’t be surprised if reforms such as reducing the purchase of new weapons for the VKS follow soon and the like. I myself served in RTV air defense, and I can’t imagine if the head of the radar would be a tanker.
  25. +2
    22 September 2017 12: 48
    And, “dude” is really interesting, that’s what they wrote about him in the previous forum thread on this topic:
    "" ... In August 1991, with the rank of captain, he served as commander of a motorized rifle battalion of the Taman Motorized Rifle Division guards. The battalion consisting of 20 BMP-1 and one BRDM-2 was sent by order of the State Emergency Committee to send commandant posts on the Garden Ring. During the incident, three young people died in a tunnel on the Garden Ring: Dmitry Komar (crushed by caterpillars while maneuvering an infantry fighting vehicle), Ilya Krichevsky and Vladimir Usov (shot dead). After the defeat of the State Emergency Committee, Surovikin was arrested and was under investigation for about 7 months. As a result, the charges were dropped as he was following the orders of the leadership. Moreover, Surovikin was not just released, but promoted by personal order of Russian President Boris Yeltsin. "
    Well, and more:
    1. There was a criminal record for selling weapons (the article says “for wearing” the military and the article for “wearing”?), Was paid, then completely removed.
    2. "... Lieutenant Colonel Viktor Tsibizov complained to the garrison prosecutor’s office that he was beaten by his senior chief, division commander Major General Sergey Surovikin. According to the victim, the reason for the beating in the general’s office was that Tsibizov at the by-elections to the State Duma on March 14, he voted “not for that candidate.” (Tsibizov later withdrew the application).
    3. "In April 2004, in the office of Surovikin, in the presence of himself and the deputy commander of the district’s troops, the deputy commander of the armament division, Colonel Andrei Shtakal, shot himself dead."
    Finally, the wife of the general, Anna Surovikina, is also a very interesting figure. Business woman:
    ".... The wife of the commander of the Eastern Military District, Sergei Surovikin, with an income of 44,021 million rubles, took second place in the list of the richest spouses of the department’s employees. She has three apartments with a total area of ​​479 sq. M, three land plots (with a total area of ​​about 4,1 thousand sq. M), as well as a house (686 sq. M), a parking place (12 sq. M) and non-residential premises (182 sq. M.) Surovikina is also the owner of the Lexus RX 350. Her husband earned in 2016, four times less than the spouse - 10,4 million rubles. He has two apartments with a total area of ​​623 square meters, as well as a Dodge Nitro car. "
    1. 0
      22 September 2017 13: 35
      Yes, the wife is generally the tenth thing. what's interesting about her. as for the beating of the lieutenant colonel and the statement, this is generally ridiculous. how do you imagine this?))) one officer stands and beats another without an answer?)
      1. +2
        22 September 2017 13: 50
        one officer stands and beats another without an answer?)


        ..... hmmm .... you don’t know much about our army .... Yes
        1. 0
          22 September 2017 14: 36
          from 15 years old. father is a grandfather and then all the officers. so you overdo it. I do not deny the presence of fools. but I don’t believe in the beating of an officer by the commander in the office.
          1. 0
            22 September 2017 15: 06
            Ahhh ... Well, then you know better. winked
            1. 0
              25 September 2017 15: 06
              Do not say, dear colleague, how naive people are here on the site .... well, let them not believe further .... they really do not know much about our army (but they consider themselves experts) .. they really know better ..
  26. +1
    22 September 2017 13: 19
    As for the "pilots", there is always a choice for those who disagree. The Air Force as a type of armed force no longer exists. Such a reorganization has causes and consequences. There is no contradiction in the fact that for some time the representative of the "consumer" of the "services" of this type of aircraft will be in command of the aerospace forces, no. In a few years we will see what the result will be. Aviation, fleet, etc. - all this should work for the infantryman who occupies and holds territory.
  27. +6
    22 September 2017 13: 36
    Interesting! How to consider such a hodgepodge as the Russian Aerospace Forces?
    Separate types of troops were assembled with specific equipment and partially cross-sectional tasks ... the “habitat” environment was, as it were, one (air and airless space).
    The question is how this experiment will end ... time will tell.
    The most important thing is to ensure clear interaction both within the structure of the airborne forces and with other military branches !!!
    The most comprehensive training in the section INTERACTION OF DIFFERENT BIRTHS OF TROOPS in Russia has always been given by GENERAL EDUCATION, such is the specifics of training infantry commanders !!!
    For the personality of the alleged commander of the VKS I don’t ... I don’t know him, so there’s nothing to talk about. Time will tell.
    1. +1
      22 September 2017 13: 56
      When the news about the creation of the videoconferencing system "passed", I spoke out loud about this at home, my granddaughter twirled nearby, and caught the decoding of the abbreviation, then asked: "Grandpa, and the cosmic forces will fight with aliens"? ... winked
    2. +1
      22 September 2017 17: 15
      Quote: rocket757
      Interesting! How to consider such a hodgepodge as the Russian Aerospace Forces?

      This is a "large system" or "complex." The effectiveness of the complex is higher than the effectiveness of the constituents. Complexes are created to achieve a given efficiency.
  28. +1
    22 September 2017 13: 58
    Quote: Mstislav
    Dear, you would know how many people died from the dullness of the infantry in plane crashes ...

    Sweetheart, maybe we’ll also forbid the pilots to drive behind the wheel? And then suddenly before the intersection will the steering wheel be pulled? In 1998, in my opinion, two years from the early graduation of the disbanded Perm Technical School, 2 of the year and 8 months of study (third-year cadets according to my concepts!) Came to my submission to me, one was underestimated for specialists in Su-25, the second on helicopter seems. Now both lieutenant colonels, respected people in their field. Opinion on the conservativeness of the military stems from the way in which the chain of trust is built up in the army, when each officer who has gone on a promotion tries to fill the vacancies of subordinates with people known to him personally as professionals or in whom he noticed a promising specialist so that he could lean on or be calm for a specific unit. I remember how a captain-signalman was suddenly sent to me in a part of a key vacancy, I already had a fight with the commander, and that captain kept the regular specialists on equal terms after six months, and a year later I introduced him to the promotion.
    Bullshit, not an article, a civil rat wrote, from the very lyrics. The best quote that comes to mind is: “Generals command smart people, from a major and above,” and Surovikin will not teach the summer of Namenarek to fly an airplane.
  29. 0
    22 September 2017 14: 25
    As in the 80s, when the air forces of the districts obeyed the naval investigators, such a chief arrives at the airfield and conducts combat drill at the central heating center, then indignantly says that you have such a huge parade ground and you can’t even walk in combat drill. technical uniforms were sewn, and pilots in boots arrived on flights ...
    1. 0
      22 September 2017 14: 35
      And back in the 80s, after preflight preparation before the start of flights, jet engines “warmed up”. But the "hunters" had nothing to do with this.
    2. +4
      22 September 2017 15: 04
      The question is not who joined whom and who commands them !!!
      The question of who will command the air forces - the union of different branches of the armed forces.
      1. 0
        22 September 2017 23: 54
        Quote: rocket757
        The question of who will command

        The question is what goal is being pursued, because if there is no goal, then there is no system. And only here is the main question - who will command. Commander-in-chief is not the highest level of management. If the goal is set correctly and the system is correctly created and provided, then SOME will command. If he no longer matches, he will be removed. But if the goal is set incorrectly or the system is inoperative, then a system of a higher level will be destroyed.
  30. +1
    22 September 2017 14: 32
    Quote: Earnest
    In 1998, in my opinion, two years from the early release of the disbanded Perm Technical School, 2 years and 8 months of study (third-year cadets according to my concepts!) Came to my submission to me, one was underestimated for Su-25 specialists, the second for the helicopter seems

    At the same time, two or even three sides were fastened in the shelves for technical personnel, there weren’t enough specialists. The aviation specialist will be able to lead the combined arms unit, as well as the signalman, in the aviation schools that study the special military bases, but the specifics of the aviation units in combined arms schools no.
    1. +1
      22 September 2017 14: 39
      "Lead" is management. Management is not taught in aviation schools. A pilot is a driver.
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 14: 51
        A pilot is a leader, for those who are not familiar with the specifics of aviation, many things cannot be understood. Here, even the organization of communications has its own specifics, and the same flight support, and the pilots mainly manage this entire economy. The regiment commander, and above there was always a pilot Yes, and the commanders-in-chief are also pilots, albeit from different types of aviation, and Air Marshal Yevgeny Ivanovich Shaposhnikov, the fighter, was even the Minister of Defense ...
        1. 0
          22 September 2017 23: 56
          Quote: Fitter65
          and Air Marshal Yevgeny Ivanovich Shaposhnikov, a fighter, was even the Minister of Defense ...

          Yeah, but there was still someone Grachev. How it all ended, we know. And we know why these two were appointed. In short, your example is unsuccessful (to put it mildly).
          1. 0
            23 September 2017 06: 31
            Quote: iouris
            Quote: Fitter65
            and Air Marshal Yevgeny Ivanovich Shaposhnikov, a fighter, was even the Minister of Defense ...

            Yeah, but there was still someone Grachev. How it all ended, we know. And we know why these two were appointed. In short, your example is unsuccessful (to put it mildly).

            Grachev HAS NEVER BEEN AN AVIATOR. So the example with Shaposhnikov is more successful than yours with Grachev.
            1. 0
              23 September 2017 12: 18
              Quote: Fitter65
              Shaposhnikov’s example is more successful

              Shaposhnikov really wanted to fly in the Russian fuselage on American engines. His dream was half fulfilled: he flies in the American fuselage and on American engines. "Grachev is the best defense minister of all time and nation" (President Yeltsin). So Shaposhnikov is no better. Both of them are not "combined arms", and are appointed to the post of the Moscow Region commissioners in dust-free tuxedos as "military experts".
    2. +5
      22 September 2017 15: 09
      Not for the position of comasco, they are discussing the applicant!
      And so, in principle, I agree ... the PILOT INSTRUCTOR should teach the pilot, and the ENGINEER techie for aircrafts should do the same!
      1. 0
        23 September 2017 06: 34
        Quote: rocket757
        Not for the position of comasco, they are discussing the applicant!

        Well, first ordinary pilots, and then comedians P.S.KUTAKHOV and A.N. EFIMOV
  31. +2
    22 September 2017 14: 34
    Many officers at first called him Taburetkin.And his name is now. I can’t laugh, Taburetkin and Dimon won the war on 08.08.08/58/XNUMX. Although Georgians are not very fighting without Russians, Mishiko correctly figured out when to start the war. Putin was in Beijing for the Olympics. Dimon with Taburetkin they didn’t know what to do for a day. All responsibility fell on the army commander XNUMX. Recently, I’m not surprised at anything, everything is bought and sold from us. Not money so “devotion.” With all due respect to Marshal Zhukov GK, but for the sake of truth, I can say that he did not understand the intricacies of naval command. Under Stalin, there were two military ministers, the defense minister and the minister of the USSR Navy (Admiral N. Kuznetsov). "Srach" was constantly going on between the army and the navy until the Minister of the Navy was abolished. There are so many tales in the Navy about Zhukov when he visited ships, and here, most likely, the same oil painting will be drawn, but can it carry?
  32. +6
    22 September 2017 14: 36
    It was like this in our military practice - combined-arms officers commanded a non-specialized “team” from various branches of the armed forces and quite successfully !!!
    A competent officer will not divide his subordinates into OWNERS and ALIENS (they are, as it were, all ALIENS to him). The real BATI COMMANDER they will all be OWN !!!
    The task helps to complete the combined arms training, competent assistants, and as it is not trite HEALTHY SENSE !!!
    The arguments of civilian “experts” about the prepared combined arms commander as a “boot”, “pekhtur”, etc. ... the sofa experts have no experience, education, special training, although the mere presence of common sense would help some.
    1. +2
      22 September 2017 15: 04
      Quote: rocket757
      The arguments of civilian “experts” about the prepared combined arms commander as a “boot”, “pekhtur”, etc. ... the sofa experts have no experience, education, special training, although the mere presence of common sense would help some.

      They don’t have couches, but for those who have served in the Air Force for almost 31 years, even if they haven’t a flying post, they do.
      1. +6
        22 September 2017 15: 48
        And what, there are doubts about the principle of training the flight personnel of those ???
        Personally, I taught the “youngsters” exactly what I knew well.
        The commandant taught us to walk in the correct order, he had a completely “boot” ... but he didn’t get into my specific “business” ... a very reasonable approach. And the system went right, from the "young" quite decent specialists turned out (from those who wanted to learn).
  33. +1
    22 September 2017 15: 05
    a little fan
    “... But for some reason everyone threw bottles at the tower, recalls Sergey Bratchikov. - And this is a zero result: Gasoline burns on the armor, but does not get inside. And I figured out what to do. He took a bucket of gasoline. He ran to this BMP, which crushed a man, and splashed her right under the cannon in the air intake. And then a match there too. Blazed - be healthy. The BMP immediately stopped, the hatches opened, and from there the soldiers began to run out into other cars. And only the commander did not run to hide, but went to a chain of people. Major, it seems. Machine gun on the shoulder. "Get out!" - yelling. Everyone is standing. He took out a gun and shot at the first one. He collapsed. People rushed in all directions, and the major went somewhere, to the house ... ". Here is the fact of the death of Ilya Krichevsky, but he killed him just like that, angry, brutalized, losing his temper not as a major, but captain Surovikin. Since they set fire to the armored vehicle - the killer 536, and in it was the commander of the column captain Surovikin

    The first feat that infuriated the captain, I think, is the most cruel, from the story of Sergey Bratchikov: Surovikin “.. went to a chain of people, disperse, yells. Everyone is standing. He took out a gun and shot at the first one. He collapsed. " Shot just like that, in the first one. It was I. Krichevsky.

    The next feat, as A. Blum testifies - the death of V. Usov, could not rebound the bullet in any way. The shot / at V. Usov / was on the left, and the door on the right, and the half-head bullet that ricocheted off the door, could not be demolished, but experts did not pay attention to this, more precisely, they were not going to pay attention to the obvious facts that the shot was fired.
    Surovikin also shot at me point-blank, aimed at the head, his hand trembled, missed, the bullet touched only his hand.
    The fact of numerous shrapnel wounds is a consequence of the fact that the bullets were explosive (according to the investigator in the prosecutor's office). This puts everything in its place. Four notches on the door of the BMP hatch (according to Blum) mean that both Jan Rybard (journalist, Czech) and Gennady Estrov, who received a fragmentary wound to the abdomen, were showered with fragments and, again, an explosive bullet.
    As when trying to remove the body of Dmitry Komar, he was showered with fragments of Sergey Churin.
    By the way, Surovikin also shot Dmitry Komar. And it’s an absolutely inhuman “feat”: Surovikin didn’t take off his body and didn’t render help, as it turns out, at that time to a still living person (I quoted the facts). D. Komar was wounded, but alive. According to A. Blum, you can shoot in the armored car only directly, and not up, Alexander Blum was not too lazy and examined the armored car, but no one listened to his testimony, did not take it seriously.
    Another feat: Surovikin drove, without hesitation, in the captain of the first rank MA Golovko, in officer uniform standing in the way of BMP 536.
    I don’t even know what cruelty is the most villainous act of this soulless killer. And why a soulless killer - let's call everything by their proper names, a cruel cold-blooded killer. As professionals said, only an officer could have a gun, especially with explosive bullets, only automatic weapons were given out to soldiers. And how many people were silent? Not everyone is as pedantic as Blum. They didn’t turn, they are silent, they know: it will be worse for themselves. And also, I remember, they let me down in the tunnel, showed me the place where there was a "bunch" of brains, and the guys died in completely different places. “I,” said an eyewitness, “fenced this place, but the next day everything was washed away.” They washed away not only this “bunch” of brains, tried to wash away all traces of crimes.


    from here http://kfond.org/blog/128_podvigi_surovikina_ili_
    heroi_i_antigeroi.html
    1. +6
      22 September 2017 16: 07
      Sad, wrong events.
      Only here is the trouble - thrust nails into the trunks, climb under heavy equipment, etc. ... raking for it to the fullest and beyond that! what then did you get?
      "Gingerbread" and what is better goes to the one who "pulls the strings", does not climb the barricades !!!
      Maybe it's time to grow up or even better start to THINK.
    2. +2
      22 September 2017 21: 21
      And the Chinese in Tiananmen Square drove through their maydauns, crushing only about 300 organisms, and remained a great country. And then, because of three idiots, this then began ...
      1. +5
        22 September 2017 21: 53
        Without delving deep into history, you can look at the neighbors near and far ... some shot some XNUMX, no one knows. Others tolerance and tolerance surged, the servicemen guard the wrong people and not there ... that we have in the future, presumably, Makhnovism and the Halefat in the neighborhood.
        And in both cases, AUTHORITY did not do what it should !!!
        1. 0
          22 September 2017 22: 15
          It is absolutely true that if the government does not fulfill its functions, it is removed, the methods can be different.
          1. +4
            22 September 2017 22: 50
            At the expense of bad-good power, the topic is slippery, especially about how to remove it.
            But at the expense of those who stick cloves into the trunks and try to portray anti-tank bullets, it’s a pity, definitely! Although there is a suspicion about their mental health.
            1. 0
              22 September 2017 23: 28
              A topic as a topic is another matter that is not on the original question of the article. And in order to stick flowers in the trunks, one must be a complete moron-liberalist, health in such brains has never been.
    3. 0
      23 September 2017 00: 05
      Interesting movie. I understand the pathos. However, those citizens who went to the tanks or tried to burn them together with manpower realized that they would be fired by soldiers who obey the order. If all the soldiers carried out the order to the end, then the story was different. We would now live in another state. Although, I understand, this is a matter of taste, but they don’t argue about tastes.
      1. +4
        23 September 2017 10: 08
        What is such pathos-mafos ??? Our common sense is everything !!!
        Learn the mat part, i.e. history as the science of all sciences, apply at least a little common sense and get the bottom line ... the events described Lnglr Yesterday, 15:05 p.m. typical "Gaponism"
        ... is it for me, DO WE NEED ???
        At that moment when the servant ceases to fulfill his DEBT !!! kirdyk state!
        On the topic of a bad-good state .... the theme is "slippery" i.e. long. long. versatile We are the servicemen to climb into it, only to get completely stuck ...
  34. +4
    22 September 2017 15: 34
    Recall that when someone was attached to someone and it became very ... very bad, off topic.
    A large association has been created from various branches of the army, “imprisoned” for a wide range of tasks !!!
    The decision that they will be commanded by a commander who is equally remote / close to all the arms of service included in this combat formation seems quite logical.
    What will come of it, time will tell.
  35. +1
    22 September 2017 15: 57
    Quote: pvv113
    Low position compared to the Minister of Defense

    And I would like to drive even lower - underground.
  36. +2
    22 September 2017 16: 11
    Quote: cariperpaint
    Yes, the wife is generally the tenth thing. what's interesting about her. as for the beating of the lieutenant colonel and the statement, this is generally ridiculous. how do you imagine this?))) one officer stands and beats another without an answer?)

    Serve, dear, and you will not see the Army like that. I've seen different versions of this case, right up to getting bruises by the colonel, who "got the banks" in a conversation with some ensign. As for history, it was not in vain that dueling was devised to solve such issues. In the tsarist army, to be rejected from a call was tantamount to writing a report on dismissal. The court of officer honor for this was. But now it is only a tool for dismissal.
  37. +1
    22 September 2017 16: 41
    So I do not understand the dimogues. People write - bad and others like repeaters - “this is really bad.” This man, whom EVERYTHING COLLAPSED among other things, THANKS our soldiers from the encirclement in Syria the other day. And it’s certainly not for you to decide why they took him. He still commands a group in Syria. And the lives of the soldiers on his shoulders there.
  38. 0
    22 September 2017 20: 10
    In NATO, the commander of a force grouping can be either a combined arms soldier (infantryman) or a specialist (pilot, sailor, etc.) the decision is made depending on the specific case. As a rule, what type or type of troops carries the main effort, that leads.
    In the case of Surovikin, I think either they are training for the chief of the general staff, so he goes through all the posts. Or priority is given to the old Soviet military school, which is the main thing everywhere - the combined arms soldier. And maybe both options in parallel.
  39. +3
    22 September 2017 20: 13
    Quote: kapitan92
    Quote: Maz
    and since when did aviation plan to be a separate species without infantry support.

    In modern warfare. Take the experience of using American aviation in all recent conflicts? Who owns the sky that owns the situation on the TVD, in the operational and strategic context.


    I apologize, in addition to MAZ’s comment, I’ll add: not infantry, but combined-arms Vanya ... And the same aviation is given - the main tasks are set by the combined-arms Vanya from the General Staff ... Similarly, for the staff, do not hesitate ...
    Well, in addition to the commentator of LAW, I can add a well-known truth: until the foot of a soldier (infantry) has entered the territory, it cannot be considered conquered ...
    I’m all this not in defense of the appointed Commander-in-Chief ... I understand the hurt pride of the pilots (I said this softly) ... But I'm more worried about the way this general is led ...
    There was such a divisor for my service, and then he also led the Plesetsk cosmodrome, Alexander Makarevich ... He was a fool ... Mat wings - regardless of age, rank, position ... And it’s okay - for the job .. . And often - simply because of a bad arrogance and a sense of impunity ... Until one colonel openly threatened to shoot him, moreover, in public, he still could not calm down ...
    PS By the way, none of those present then confirmed to the interrogator what the colonel said ... And this was also where the protest against the tyrant appeared ...
    1. +5
      22 September 2017 21: 06
      It’s cool ... Plesetsk, Baikanur, Sary-Shagan, Kapyar and other objects where you have visited often have large-star guys who are not of the most calm, complaisant disposition expressed in a very specific vocabulary. And everywhere they told stories, like the one described weksha50.
      1. +1
        22 September 2017 21: 11
        Quote: rocket757
        And everywhere they told stories, like the one described by weksha50.


        I didn’t tell stories, because, unfortunately, I had to talk with this person when he was the commander of the 44th Strategic Rocket Forces (military unit 43291, Kolomyia, Ivano-Frankivsk region) ...
        1. +5
          22 September 2017 22: 20
          Responsibly affirm - ARMY Tales are not lies and the manifestation of someone's violent imagination.
          This is what it was, is or can be !!! some particular army folk.
          He himself was a witness and an involuntary participant in the forced departure of a senior officer from the window of the classroom 3 floors !!!
          Then I had to FRIENDLY to prove that it itself, in the order of a training experiment ... something like that. Fortunately IT successfully landed on the bushes, and physical training is army, not just like that.
          1. 0
            22 September 2017 23: 50
            It was lucky that this officer, a flyer from the window, did not break his attic.
            1. +4
              23 September 2017 09: 03
              It was lucky that in the group of "experimenters" there were sons-granddaughters who had large-star dad-grandfathers !!! And in those distant times, such offspring did not hide behind expensive lawyers, but inspiredly cut the "truth-womb" with us !!!
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. +1
    26 September 2017 12: 17
    all his life he wore green epaulets that people with blue epaulets despise
    And with hell is such a questionable content statement ??? They despise incompetence, lack of professionalism, "pride of pride", blat, but by no means the "color" of the epaulette ... A stupid statement made by a dunce, even in general uniforms. I didn’t read, he’d see, the grandmother told him a story about spreading fingers and a fist, about a separate twig and a broom from these twigs ... Infantry without aviation is nothing like aviation without land detachments.
    On the whole, I agree with the problem that the appointment under discussion will create ... Neprofi is the same "effective manager" with which the Army has already had a full turn.
  42. +1
    26 September 2017 12: 37
    Quote: Lnglr
    As professionals said, a pistol, especially with explosive bullets

    "To the count" of such "professionals"!
    ______________________
    In general, when such "wide steps" take place in the service, the question about the relatives of the defendant, but the relatives of his wife, itself arises. Unfortunately, this was the case in the Army and, most likely, will continue in the future.
  43. 0
    26 September 2017 12: 43
    Quote: cariperpaint
    but I don’t believe in the beating of an officer at the division commander

    How did they say ... "Naive Chukchi youth"? feel
  44. 0
    26 September 2017 16: 37
    So what :? Moo did not serve in the army at all, but was commander in chief!
  45. 0
    29 September 2017 14: 12
    Great destination!
    Finally, the VKS will try to put things in order!
    And there, they will start to do something in a timely manner.
    After all, VKS is not only pilots, blue blood and all that. By the way, I especially liked this blood, which, having taken in a little bit of the forbidden alcohol before departure (they themselves decide whether or not to fly), told how it would be written off for OBESITY and would be restored in civilian life or in China, because there wouldn’t be a real flyer! They are forced, as in the USSR, to perform all UBP).
    Plan application, build airfields, guard them. To do this, briefly be a pilot. Or now there are a lot of “written off” in the Commander-in-Chief, but no, most of those who did not hold on to the handle are there.
    And Surovikina, among the “boots”, is considered a man who can figure it out.
    So, our dear military personnel (in terms of how much money is needed to train one officer), I wish you to fulfill YOUR duties in a timely and high-quality manner. And give an assessment of the activities of your new Commander-in-Chief at least in a year.
    By the way, as a moderator on a note, the topic is "100 DAYS ON THE OFFICES OF VKS GK"?

    Sorry or offended anyone.
  46. 0
    14 December 2017 14: 34
    The commanders-in-chief of the armed forces now do not decide anything, except for the prospects for their development. Their main diocese is combat training and construction. In order to engage in combat training, there are commanders of all levels, both sensible and professional. Including in the videoconferencing. In order to build the type of Armed Forces, you need to understand the role of its military units in the strategic direction. In fact, you need the thinking of an officer of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. If General Surovikin allows himself to go down to the level of the regiment, you can expect trouble (again, depending on what), if you remain the top military administrator, then it is unlikely that this will change: the decision to really use troops and forces is still made by the NSS and the commanders of districts and fleets . So I think polemics are useless here. The self-esteem of individual generals who also aimed at this position is simply wounded.