"Heroic Landing" Allies in Normandy

222
"Many battles claim the role of the main battle of the Second World War. Someone thinks that this is the battle of Moscow, in which the fascist troops suffered their first defeat. Others believe that the battle of Stalingrad should be considered as such, the third was the battle of Kursk In America, and recently in Western Europe, no one doubts that the Normandy landing operation and the battles that ensued were the main battle. It seems to me that Western historians are right, though not in everything.



Let's think about what would happen if the Western allies were once again delayed and did not land troops in the 1944 year? It is clear that Germany would still have been defeated, only the Red Army would have ended the war, not near Berlin and on the Oder, but in Paris and on the banks of the Loire. It is clear that General de Gaulle, who had not arrived in the carriage of the allies, but one of the leaders of the Comintern, would have come to power in France. Similar figures would be found for Belgium, Holland, Denmark, and all other large and small countries of Western Europe (as they were found for the countries of Eastern Europe). Naturally, Germany would not have been divided into four occupation zones, therefore, a single German state would have been formed not in 90-s, but in 40-s, and it would be called not Germany, but GDR. Nor would there be a place for NATO in this hypothetical world (who would have entered it except the United States and England?), But in the Warsaw Pact would unite the whole of Europe. Ultimately, the Cold War, if it took place at all, would have a completely different character, and would have a completely different outcome. However, I am not at all going to argue that everything would be just that, and not otherwise. But the fact that the outcome of the Second World would have been different, no doubt. But the battle, which largely determined the course of post-war development, should rightfully be considered the main battle of the war. Here are just a battle to call it a stretch.

Atlantic shaft
It was the name of the German defense system in the west. For movies and computer games, this shaft seems to be something very powerful - rows of anti-tank hedgehogs, followed by concrete pillboxes with machine guns and tools, bunkers for manpower, etc. But remember, have you ever seen a photo where it would all be visible? On the most famous and widely replicated NDO photograph, amphibious barges and American soldiers wandering to the waist in water are visible, and this was taken from the shore. We managed to find pictures of the landing sites that you see here. Soldiers land on a completely empty shore, where, apart from a few anti-tank hedgehogs, there are no defenses. So what was the Atlantic Wall after all?
This name was first sounded in the autumn of 1940, when four long-range batteries were built on the coast of Pas de Calais in a short time. True, they were intended not to repel a landing, but to disrupt shipping in the strait. Only in 1942, after the unsuccessful landing of the Canadian rangers near Dieppe, the construction of defensive structures began, mainly all the same, on the English Channel (it was assumed that it was here that the Allies would land), the remaining sections were allocated labor and materials according to the remaining principle. There wasn’t so much left, especially after the intensification of raids on Germany allied aviation (I had to build bomb shelters for the population and industrial enterprises). As a result of the construction of the Atlantic rampart, a total of 50 percent was ready, but directly in Normandy even less. More or less, the only area ready for defense was the one that later received the name of the Omaha bridgehead. However, he did not look at all as it is depicted in a game well known to you.

Think about it, what's the point of having concrete fortifications on the very shore? Of course, the guns installed there can bombard the landing craft, and machine gun fire can hit enemy soldiers when they wander to the waist in the water. But the bunkers standing right on the shore are perfectly visible to the enemy, so that he can easily overwhelm them with ship artillery. Therefore, only passive defenses (minefields, concrete ridges, anti-tank hedgehogs) are created directly at the water cut. Behind them, preferably along the ridges of dunes or hills, trenches come off, and dugouts and other shelters are built on the reverse slopes of the hills, where infantry can wait out the artillery attack or bombing. Well, and even further, sometimes several kilometers from the coast, closed artillery positions are created (this is where you can see the powerful concrete casemates that we love to show so much in the movies).

Approximately according to such a plan, defense was built in Normandy, but, I repeat, its main part was created only on paper. For example, about three million mines were put up, but according to the most conservative estimates, at least sixty million were needed. Artillery positions were mostly ready, but the guns were not installed everywhere. I'll tell you this history: Long before the invasion began, the French Resistance movement reported that the Germans had installed four marine 155-mm guns on the Merville battery. The firing range of these guns could reach 22 km, so that there was a danger of shelling warships, so it was decided to destroy the battery at any cost. This task was assigned to the 9-th battalion of the 6-th parachute division, which prepared for it for almost three months. A very accurate model of the battery was built, and the battalion fighters attacked it from all sides day after day. Day D finally arrived, with great noise and din the battalion seized the battery and found there ... four French 75-mm cannons on iron wheels (from the First World War). Positions were really made under 155-mm guns, but the Germans themselves did not have guns, so they put what they had at hand.

I must say that the arsenal of the Atlantic Wall generally consisted mainly of captured guns. For four years, the Germans methodically dragged there everything that they got from the defeated armies. There were Czech, Polish, French and even Soviet guns, and to many of them there was a very limited stock of shells. Approximately the same was the case with small arms, Normandy got either captured or retired on the Eastern Front. A total of 37 Army (namely, it bore the brunt of the battle) used 252 type of ammunition, and 47 of them were long out of production.

Personnel
Now let's talk about who exactly had to repel the invasion of the Anglo-Americans. Let's start with the command staff. Surely you remember the one-armed and one-eyed Colonel Stauffenberg, who made an unsuccessful attempt on Hitler. And did you wonder why such a disabled person was not completely fired, but continued to serve, even if in the reserve army? Yes, because by the 44 year, the requirements for shelf life in Germany were significantly reduced, in particular, the loss of the eye, arm, severe contusion, etc. no longer were grounds for dismissal of senior and middle officer service. Of course, on the Eastern Front there would be little use for such monsters, but there was an opportunity to plug holes in parts located on the Atlantic Shaft. So about 50% of the commanders there were categorized as "partially fit."

The Fuhrer did not bypass his attention and rank and file. Take, for example, the 70 Infantry Division, better known as the "white bread division". It consisted entirely of soldiers suffering from various diseases of the stomach, because of which they had to constantly keep on a diet (naturally, with the beginning of the invasion, the diet was difficult to observe, so the division itself disappeared). In other parts there were whole battalions of soldiers suffering from flat-footedness, kidney disease, diabetes, etc. In a relatively calm environment, they could carry on their rear service, but their combat value was close to zero.

However, not all the soldiers on the Atlantic Wall were sick or crippled, there were quite a few and quite healthy ones, only they had been there for 40 years (and the fifty-year-old were mainly serving in artillery).

And the last, most amazing fact - the indigenous Germans in the infantry divisions were only about 50%, the rest half was all trash from all over Europe and Asia. It is a shame to admit it, but quite a lot there were our compatriots, for example, the 162-Infantry Division consisted entirely of the so-called "Eastern Legions" (Turkmen, Uzbek, Azerbaijani, etc.). There were also Vlasovites on the Atlantic Shaft, although the Germans themselves were not sure that there would be any good from them. For example, the commander of the garrison of Cherbourg, General Schlieben said: "It is very doubtful that we will manage to persuade these Russians to fight for Germany in the territory of France against the Americans and the British." He was right, most of the eastern troops surrendered to the Allies without a fight.

Bloody Beach "Omaha"
American troops landed at two sites, Utah and Omaha. On the first of them, the battle did not work - there were only two strong points on this site, each of which was defended by a reinforced platoon. Naturally, they could not provide any resistance to the 4 of the American division, especially since both were practically destroyed by ship artillery fire even before the landing.

By the way, there was an interesting case here that perfectly describes the morale of the allies. A few hours before the invasion, airborne assault forces landed in the depths of the German defenses. Due to the mistake of the pilots, about three dozen parachutists were dropped on the very shore near the W-5 bunker. Some of them were destroyed by the Germans, while others were captured. And in 4.00, these prisoners began to beg the bunker commander to immediately send them to the rear. When the Germans asked what it was they wanted to do, the brave warriors immediately said that in an hour the artillery preparation would begin from the ships, followed by the landing. It is a pity that history has not preserved the names of these "fighters for freedom and democracy", who issued the hour for the start of the invasion in order to save their skin.

Let us return, however, to the Omaha bridgehead. In this area, there is only one 6.5 km long section available for landing (to the east and west of it, steep cliffs stretch for many kilometers). Naturally, the Germans were able to prepare him well for defense, on the flanks of the site there were two powerful bunkers with guns and machine guns. However, the guns of them could only bombard the beach and a small strip of water along it (from the sea side, the bunkers were covered with rocks and a six-meter layer of concrete). Behind a relatively narrow strip of the beach, hills began, up to 45 meters in height, along the crest of which trenches were dug. This entire defense system was well known to the Allies, but they hoped to suppress it before the landing began. Two battleships, three cruisers and six destroyers were to conduct fire on the bridgehead. In addition, field artillery was to fire from the landing craft, and eight landing barges were converted into rocket launchers. In just thirty minutes, more than 15 thousand projectiles of various calibers (up to 355-mm) should have been fired. And they were released ... in white light like a pretty penny. Subsequently, the Allies came up with many excuses for low shooting efficiency, here and strong seas, and predawn fog, and something else, but somehow, neither the bunkers, nor even the trenches suffered from the shelling.

Even worse acted allied aviation. The Armada of Liberator bombers dropped several hundred tons of bombs, but none of them hit not only the enemy’s fortifications, but even the beach (and some bombs exploded five kilometers from the coast).

Thus, the infantry had to overcome the completely intact enemy defense strip. However, the trouble for the ground units began even before they were ashore. For example, of 32 floating tanks (DD Sherman) 27 sank almost immediately after launching (two tanks got to the beach on their own, three more were unloaded directly to the shore). The commanders of some landing barges, not wanting to enter the sector fired by German guns (the Americans generally have a self-preservation instinct much better than the sense of duty, and all other feelings), threw off the ramps and started unloading at a depth of about two meters, where most of the paratroopers successfully drowned .

Finally, somehow, the first wave of landing was landed. It consisted of the 146 th engineer battalion, whose fighters had to, first of all, destroy the concrete battens so that the landing of tanks could begin. But this was not the case, behind each snitch was two or three brave American infantrymen, who, to put it mildly, objected to the destruction of such a reliable shelter. It was necessary for sappers to lay explosives from the side facing the enemy (naturally, many of them died at the same time, 272 was killed from all 111's sappers). To assist sappers in the first wave, 16 armored bulldozers were attached. Only three reached the coast, and only two of them were able to use the sappers — the paratroopers hid behind the third and, threatening the driver weaponsmade him stay in place. It seems that examples of "mass heroism" are enough.

Well, then we begin to solid riddles. In any source dedicated to the events on the Omaha bridgehead, there are necessarily references to two "fire-breathing bunkers on the flanks," but none of them say who, when and how suppressed the fire of these bunkers. It seems that the Germans shot, shot, and then stopped (perhaps it was so, remember that I wrote above about ammunition). More interesting is the case with machine guns firing at the front. When the American sappers smoked their comrades because of concrete bollards, they had to look for salvation in the dead zone at the foot of the hills (in some ways this can be considered an offensive). One of the branches hiding there found a narrow path leading to the summit.

Carefully advancing along this path, the infantrymen reached the crest of the hill, and found there completely empty trenches! Where are the Germans defending them? And they were not there, in this sector the defense was occupied by one of the companies of the 1 th battalion of the 726 grenadier regiment, which consisted mainly of Czechs forced into the Wehrmacht. Naturally, they dreamed of surrendering to the Americans as quickly as possible, but you must admit that throwing out the white flag before the enemy attacks you somehow undignifiedly even for the descendants of the brave soldier Schweik. The Czechs laid themselves in the trenches, from time to time releasing a queue or two towards the Americans. But after a while they realized that even such a formal resistance was holding the enemy offensive, so they collected manatki and moved to the rear. There they, in the end, and captured to the general pleasure.

In short, having shoveled a pile of materials devoted to NDOs, I managed to find one single story about the fighting in the Omaha bridgehead, and I quote it literally. "Company" E ", landed in front of Colleville after a two-hour battle, captured a German bunker on the top of a hill and captured 21 man." Everything!

The main battle of the Second World
In this brief review, I told only about the first hours of the Norman landing operation. In the days that followed, the Anglo-Americans had to face many difficulties. There is a storm that almost destroyed one of the two artificial ports; and confusion with the supply (field barbershops were taken to the bridgehead with a big delay); and the inconsistency of the actions of the Allies (the British launched an offensive two weeks earlier than planned, obviously, they were less dependent on the presence of field barbershops). However, the opposition of the enemy among these difficulties is at the last place. So is it worth calling all this a "battle"? "
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  1. +2
    13 January 2012 09: 34
    If there had been no D-day, the USSR would have ended the war in some 1947 year, having lost several million more soldiers. So many of the false patriots in this forum could simply not have been born.

    But seriously, the Western Theater of War has existed since 3 on September 1939.
    1. lesnik
      +22
      13 January 2012 10: 01
      It will be interesting to learn from you about the "outstanding" military operations on the territory of the "Western Theater" ... and if the amerovskie p..ry did not land so stupidly, how many would have remained alive, otherwise how many operations began without preliminary preparation ???
      1. +4
        13 January 2012 10: 54
        Battle of the Atlantic (700 sunken U-bots)
        Raid on Saint-Nazaire
        Landing in Sicily-1943
        Rommel Corps

        In all sources it is written: The Eastern Front distracted the 3 / 4 forces of the Wehrmacht. If we take the number of the Wehrmacht - 4 million people, then in the West. The front has always fought around 1 million Germans. Agree, a lot.

        History must be taught, not set minuses wink
        1. lesnik
          +21
          13 January 2012 12: 12
          and if you count financially who suffered the most losses during the battle for the Atlantic, the construction of a frigate or cruiser is tens of times more expensive and the sinking of such a ship is considered a significant loss in the squadron. under Saint-Nazaire I can’t judge, many consider it a successful operation. The landing in Sicily was also unsuccessful, they climbed into the mountains so that they could get out when the Germans withdrew most of the troops to the Eastern Front, the Rommel corps was routed only because there was no supply of both food and weapons, speaking of people. it is worth noting that Rommel drove the British and Americans before this throughout the North. Africa and what losses they suffered before. on the western front 1 million people ??? and where did they go ??? INTERESTING is the fact about the preparation of the US attack, after the fall of Germany, on the USSR, what can you say ???
          1. +2
            13 January 2012 15: 18
            whoever suffered the most losses during the battle for the Atlantic, the construction of a frigate or cruiser ten times more expensive and the sinking of such a ship is considered a significant loss in the squadron ... I can’t judge under Saint-Nazaire, I consider many to be a successful operation. The landing in Sicily was also unsuccessful ... that Rommel chased the British and Americans before this all over the North. Africa

            Those. there were battles, both sides suffered losses, and uneducated cheers-patriots at the VO forum divided everything to zero and limited themselves to spitting in the direction of the allies ... Ugly, guys.

            1 million people on the western front ??? and where did they go ???
            And stayed there. Kriegsmarine, Atlantic Wall, Reich Air Defense, forces in Norway, Italy ...
            1. lesnik
              +9
              13 January 2012 16: 52
              those. from your side, those "stunning" operations that the confederates have carried out for more than 5 years deserve respect ??? about the battle for the Atlantic one convoy PQ-17 what is it worth ??? Germany, for the record, was forbidden to have its own fleet, so they were building up their submarine fleet, which was cheap and angry for them. Why are the Japanese being taught that the United States dropped the nuclear power plant on them
              when even the war was in the final phase (again, after the Soviet troops entered Manchuria) ??? Ok ... we had allies !!!
              1. lesnik
                +12
                13 January 2012 20: 28
                I apologize for the bomb: the Japanese are now being convinced that the Soviet Union conducted a nuclear bombing of Hiroshima, and the United States came to the rescue.
              2. +2
                14 January 2012 12: 20
                Before yelling, what a bad English sailors, you would look at the map and much would become clear.

                By the time of the dissolution, the convoy PQ-17 had already passed about. Bearish and ended up in the Soviet operational zone. The convoy died in the immediate vicinity of the Northern Fleet bases, literally under the nose of our sailors. Of course, the English sailors made a mistake, but where was the heroic Northern Fleet?

                And the Northern Fleet watched passively as the Germans drowned bundles of transport vessels under his nose. Russian sailors could not help.

                So, PQ-17 is our common shame with the British.
                1. J_silver
                  +5
                  14 January 2012 15: 14
                  What other historical discoveries will please? Purely out of interest ...
                2. +11
                  14 January 2012 20: 35
                  YOU LIKELY STUDIED THE AMERICAN VERSION OF THE GREAT PATRIOTIC HISTORY. DO YOU KNOW THE CARD? Then do not be lazy, found the material seriously and believable ABOUT THIS Conway and see where he had left the convoy without cover ALLIES AND LOOK NORTH ZONE prompt action FLOTA.SOVETUYU CARD IN RUSSIAN, and it is desirable with a link to archival material about the fighting in the Soviet Arctic. .
                  SHAME IS NOT FOR US, BUT YOU.
                  1. +3
                    14 January 2012 22: 40
                    When passing about. The Bear Convoy was part of the Soviet operational zone and was to be covered up on its own (as it was prescribed in the Lend-Lease Agreement). Naturally, in practice it immediately became clear that the Northern Fleet was not able to cover the convoy, so usually the English escort brought the vessels to Murmansk itself. The case with PQ-17 clearly showed what would happen if the English escort leaves.

                    Specifically, the PQ-17 had a lot of questions: for example, why the Soviet aviation did not deliver preventive attacks on German airfields in Norway. Bad weather is no excuse. For this com. Arseny Golovko’s fleet was called to Moscow on the carpet and scolded hard.

                    Golovko was asked where were our destroyers who were supposed to meet the convoy at about. Bearish.
                    Golovko made excuses that the fuel was given priority to submariners, but this time the destroyers didn’t have enough solarium and they stood in the base. Well, the Northern Fleet supply service miscalculated, what can you do ...

                    In a word, our sailors completely screwed up with the English.
                    Do you read more before writing something?
                  2. +1
                    14 January 2012 22: 43
                    Screaming is a bad argument.
                    Here is a map in Russian. Convoy died under the nose of Soviet sailors
                    1. +1
                      15 January 2012 14: 32
                      ... yes, we have already discussed the convoy convoy PQ-17, there was only one conclusion from all that was said, only - CRAZYNESS OF THE ENGLISH NAVY, and you don’t have to invent anything else ....
                  3. gor
                    gor
                    -2
                    15 January 2012 13: 56
                    material is serious | as I understand it, the propaganda which zombified people like you. And about who bombed Japan, I asked some here where it was specifically written that the union bombed Japan, which they safely stalled. and making such speeches, I think one goal. cheap propaganda. look like they slander us
                3. lesnik
                  +2
                  14 January 2012 21: 01
                  I understand that it is useless to argue with you, the convoy escorts fled as soon as the rumor about "Tirpitz" began, why did you keep silent about it. I would like to hear the answer to my question, if possible: On what borders were the Soviet troops when the landing took place? and where were they struck at Churchill's request? (compare scales)
                  1. +1
                    14 January 2012 22: 40
                    When passing about. The Bear Convoy was part of the Soviet operational zone and was to be covered up on its own (as it was prescribed in the Lend-Lease Agreement). Naturally, in practice it immediately became clear that the Northern Fleet was not able to cover the convoy, so usually the English escort brought the vessels to Murmansk itself. The case with PQ-17 clearly showed what would happen if the English escort leaves.

                    Specifically, the PQ-17 had a lot of questions: for example, why the Soviet aviation did not deliver preventive attacks on German airfields in Norway. Bad weather is no excuse. For this com. Arseny Golovko’s fleet was called to Moscow on the carpet and scolded hard.

                    Golovko was asked where were our destroyers who were supposed to meet the convoy at about. Bearish.
                    Golovko made excuses that the fuel was given priority to submariners, but this time the destroyers didn’t have enough solarium and they stood in the base. Well, the Northern Fleet supply service miscalculated, what can you do ...

                    In a word, our sailors completely screwed up with the English.
                    Do you read more before writing something?
                    1. lesnik
                      +1
                      14 January 2012 23: 34
                      It turns out that all are fools, and you are D'artanyan ?! there was no answer to the question ?!
                      1. +1
                        15 January 2012 00: 05
                        Your flat humor gives you an experienced historian.

                        6 of June 1944 of the year is the day the landing in Normandy begins. Soviet troops at that time fought near the state border of the USSR.
                    2. 0
                      15 January 2012 13: 20
                      Bullshit !!!!
                  2. gor
                    gor
                    +1
                    15 January 2012 14: 01
                    I understand that the Soviet fleet didn’t move a finger so clean either. And since when did the British flee from the Germans? Didn't the British and drowned almost the entire German fleet? in my opinion there was a zone of responsibility of the parties and it had to be respected. or am I somehow mistaken ?
                4. Evil Tatar
                  +7
                  14 January 2012 21: 49
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Russian sailors could not help.


                  As far as I remember, Simonov wrote that most of the transport ships were equipped with Soviet crews.

                  Then:
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  And the Northern Fleet watched passively as the Germans drowned bundles of transport vessels under his nose Allies, with Soviet crews on board.

                  Allies sailors in the crews were only volunteers.
                  All this, of course, does not detract from the sacrificial feat of all the dead sailors - the heroes of the PQ-17 caravan.
                  Eternal memory to them!

                  Anyway ... Let's not argue, but to teach our children their Russian and Soviet history!

                  I watched it here when in the Amerov film "The False Temptation" the translator expounds the words of Robert de Niro in the role of the CIA counterintelligence boss:
                  - these Russians seized half of Europe without firing a shot,
                  and another type: - they had to be piled on them right away so that they rolled back to Moscow ... But like: - our politicians were afraid to lose face in world politics ...

                  Kakavo, huh?

                  Those. since 2007, young people around the world, having watched this movie, will think so, and their fathers will tell them an artistic fiction about grandfathers - super heroes who did not die in large numbers from dysentery, but from the crossfire of enemy machine guns, etc. Where are their Sailors, Panfilovceffs, Gastello, and many many real and literary heroes?
                  Private Rain? Yes, a good shot, but we know ...
                  700
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Battle of the Atlantic (700 sunken U-bots)

                  And where are the casualties?
                  And Soviet soldiers and citizens of 30 million. How is it - without a single shot?
                  And the plan "Unthinkable"?
                  And the remaining 67 years of constant lies and intrigue?
                  Friends damn, reboot damn ...
                  There are no words, there is a gnashing of teeth, fists to white knuckles, and from the throat - s-s-s-u-u-ki-and-and ...
                  1. lesnik
                    0
                    14 January 2012 23: 31
                    It turns out all the fools, and you are D'artagnan !!! there was no answer to the question or are we looking on the Internet?
                  2. gor
                    gor
                    +1
                    15 January 2012 14: 07
                    Yes, and the Americans are to blame for everything. Some bad ones. And the fact that the USSR was licked before the war with Germany is the norm and everything is fine. The Americans are to blame for the death of 30 million. It's good how they found a scapegoat. Tell thanks to those who have a helping hand extended when it was difficult. low and meanly to do so.
                    1. Evil Tatar
                      +4
                      15 January 2012 15: 45
                      DOG, went to jo ------- poo ...
                      Big and Thick - American ...
                      1. gor
                        gor
                        +1
                        15 January 2012 16: 46
                        shaggy tusks do not like the truth)))))))))))))))))))))))))
                      2. Evil Tatar
                        +1
                        16 January 2012 09: 20
                        I don’t like the bre..d that you carry, the troll ...
                        In addition, you son, you should also learn the Russian language and spelling ...
                        Not ashamed? You write about the serious, and education is zero.
                5. +2
                  15 January 2012 19: 24
                  Our common disgrace is if you, my friend, are ready to transfer fate from a bad head to a healthy responsibility, it was decided in the British Admiralty that he should have become a decoy for Tirpitz, but no ganzi decided differently along the entire route according to your map, he was in the aviation zone of operations, which was proved in practice, plus barriers from boats that played the role of gunners and wanting not to stop wolf packs from beating the wounded and the stragglers.
                6. Denzel13
                  +1
                  19 January 2012 17: 47
                  You would have read the order of the British Admiralty about the withdrawal of security, and it would not hurt to look at the fleet's responsibility zones (by the way, established by the British)
                7. +1
                  20 January 2012 15: 18
                  soaring !!! Rezun praised you !! At least you carefully watched the FILM-SHAVES SECRETLY lowered the convoy !! And they started this IN ADVANCE, and the USSR fleet went to the rescue as they learned about the dissolution of the convoy. YES Pindos surpassed the ages you would at least have blood urges to protect their grandfathers would have worked ....
                8. klew
                  0
                  15 February 2012 08: 10
                  In fact, they escorted convoys under Lend Lease agreements. From the beginning to the end
            2. Denzel13
              +2
              19 January 2012 17: 41
              It is ugly to defend those who had neither honor, nor courage, nor skill for warfare. And this is not "hurray patriotism" as you put it - this is a reality that you and others like it are difficult to recognize. It's hard to confess your mistakes and misbehavior. Nevertheless, you feel great when you demand that we (the Victors) recognize the mistakes made by the USSR. Who is being ugly?
              Double standards policy in action!
            3. +2
              20 January 2012 15: 10
              Well, you and woodpecker !! Your grandfather fought on whose side ??? Probably on the side of the Nazis. kazyavkaesh heroes. If your grandfather defended his homeland, then close his blew, you insult his memory. (See PQ-17 how your cruiser handed over the convoy Schaub on the water to be kings - and Brotherhood do not care for them.)
        2. Lech e-mine
          +11
          13 January 2012 15: 33
          IN HAPPIN HISTORIANS HAVE APPEARED TO US. I am AFRAID. In one fell swoop seven murders - such nonsense from [hide] [/ hide] SWEET_SIXTEEN I have not read for a long time.
        3. +2
          15 January 2012 14: 29
          By the way, the landing in Sicily was even more outstanding than in Normandy-there the American troops gouged their own aviation- SWEET_SIXTEEN read the recollections of American generals
        4. +7
          15 January 2012 19: 14
          sweet 18 first Sicily landing took place with the support of the local mafia, the ratio of the Germans and their allies the Italian fascists against the forces of the invasion of 8 to 1 in favor of landing, with complete air supremacy. So the Germans are organized and I ask you to notice with minimal losses they moved to the continent where right up to the 45th they kept a non-acidic mass of Amers and Astrovites with their comrades. Read about Monte Cassino. The second Vitva for the Atlantic is the ratio of tonnage of German boats and the feast of the feast drowned by them. Romel’s third corps is happy to laugh at the corps on paper in a division with reinforcements and to drive 25000 people Montgomery collected as many as 950000 almost 1000000000 where in tanks it looked like one German from 15 to 45 English on airplanes generally 1 to 40 with the previously mentioned Romel wink managed to drive through the desert well, very cool warriors. Can you please answer bully
          1. lesnik
            +3
            17 January 2012 00: 10
            Shake your hand!!!!
        5. +1
          20 January 2012 14: 34
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          In all sources it is written: The Eastern Front distracted the 3 / 4 forces of the Wehrmacht. If we take the number of the Wehrmacht - 4 million people, then in the West. The front has always fought around 1 million Germans. Agree, a lot.

          History must be taught, not set minuses

          So what??? 1 million non-combat-ready units ??? Well then, go to the nursery children, half them, and declare yourself the Heir to the Terminator.
          .... the lawyer has filled up ...
        6. 0
          20 January 2012 15: 05
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          In all sources it is written: The Eastern Front distracted the 3 / 4 forces of the Wehrmacht. If we take the number of the Wehrmacht - 4 million people, then in the West. The front has always fought around 1 million Germans. Agree, a lot.

          History must be taught, not set minuses

          So what??? 1 million non-combat-ready units ??? Well then, go to the nursery children, half them, and declare yourself the Heir to the Terminator.
          .... the lawyer has filled up ...
      2. +12
        13 January 2012 22: 47
        lesnik, examples, as you want, for almost 3 years the British (continuously changing the commanders), having a 3-4-fold advantage in all, fought off the African corps ERVIN ROMMEL. and defeated him only by a miracle. fellow Operation "market garden" just landed and the same logisticians, by the way, knocked them in the teeth. and even in Oceania, the Americans butted with the Japs, who ruffled them for nothing. and most importantly, the battle in the ardennes, where the Anglo-American supermen ran from the rear, the boys from the Hitler Youth and a handful of veterans. with the Papuans, they are strong to fight and not armies. fellow
        1. lesnik
          +3
          13 January 2012 23: 01
          Datur, thanks for the support! 3-4 times in armored vehicles, if I remember exactly
        2. -17
          14 January 2012 12: 50
          Vyazemsky disaster: 30 German divisions fought against 60 Russians. Result - 680.000 captured Russian soldiers
          The most grandiose defeat in the history of mankind.

          The Germans are the best soldiers in the world. So everyone messed up: we and the allies
          1. +7
            14 January 2012 22: 56
            Listen, under the Vyazma, the Germans created a more than two-fold advantage in manpower, in tanks and aircraft their advantage was four-fold. They struck, which the Soviet command dropped, we will face the truth. This science cost us huge blood to fight. My grandfather, cavalryman, commander of a reconnaissance platoon went missing near Vyazma. And you get out of bed, ok, take advantage of the buttons to press, do not shoot ... Just remember, human hatred will still get you. Take care of your health, cattle.

            I apologize to the users of the forum for emotions, but that terrible war is not a topic for ernism of any scum.
            By the way, all completely censored words are replaced by spaces and ok automatically, I will not redo it.
            1. +1
              15 January 2012 00: 08
              History needs to know, no matter how tragic it may be.

              In the 1941 year, the Germans had no advantage in manpower and equipment on any front sector; under the Vyazma the Red Army outnumbered the Wehrmacht by the number of tanks by 5, the number of infantry divisions by 2 times the 16 German versus the 32 Russian + 10 militia divisions.

              Learn the story of a false patriot, and do not rush cheap slogans
              "in f @ ny we will fill the gunpowder - we will smash all fascists"
              1. +5
                15 January 2012 15: 50
                Well, what to argue with "experts".

                "By the beginning of the operation, the enemy misled the command of the Soviet fronts regarding the direction of the main strikes and, by regrouping, created a numerical superiority in the selected directions, including in Dukhovshchinskoye: in people - 3 times, tanks - 1,7, guns and mortars - in 3,8 times; on Roslavl: for people - 3,2 times, for tanks - 8,5 times, for guns and mortars - 8,5 times. "

                Want more? Good luck finding completely unclassified information.
                1. -10
                  16 January 2012 10: 14
                  You are a bespontovy general wink

                  excellence in SELECTED destinations - this phrase means that the Germans competently distributed their forces, broke through the defense in several narrow directions and took the Vyazemskaya grouping in "ticks"
                  And the Soviet command, without any preparation and plan, put up 60 divisions, which all were surrounded, despite the enormous numerical superiority.
              2. +1
                17 January 2012 20: 29
                That you are confused with France, which Hitler rolled out in a matter of days ....
    2. Arlekin
      +28
      13 January 2012 10: 05
      Sorry, this is your grandfather who came to Berlin, told ????
      My grandfather, the kingdom of heaven to him, watered "soyuznichkov" with such a mother ...
      1. +1
        13 January 2012 10: 57
        And why did they not please him?
        Maybe 400.000 Willys and Sdedebekker (yes, yes, a patriot, 90% of automotive vehicles, the Red Army was American)
        Or did your grandfather want to fight a couple more years?
        1. orion-sticks
          +27
          13 January 2012 11: 33
          The Studebakers and Wilis were bought with Soviet gold and then returned back for free. Moreover, the United States has made a huge industrial leap in the years of World War II, releasing Studebakers and Jeepes. With regards to the 2 million Germans who fought on the western front, name at least one major battle, except for the landing in Normandy. Pushkin A.S. said: "Do not trust politicians and historians - they sell their works for money" Old Testament: "... and the glory of other nations will be your glory." What for US was LIFE or DEATH, for them it was just BUSINESS.
          1. +1
            13 January 2012 15: 10
            America did not receive a cent for the Lend-Lease, the USSR paid only with Great Britain, but after the death of Edinburgh, such calculations stopped.
            The only advantage the United States has gained is the industrial leap, but are they really to blame?

            Under the terms of the contract, the surviving equipment was to be returned or destroyed. The USSR crushed several Airacobras with tanks in front of the American commission, and the scrapping process ended there. For example A-20 "Boston" were in the composition of the Northern Fleet Navy until 1956

            name at least one major battle, besides the landing in Normandy
            Sicily, Crete, Rommel, Battle of the Atlantic
            , Dunkirk, Battle of Britain

            What was LIFE or DEATH for US, it was simply BUSINESS for them.
            What to do with a ball in Moscow on the occasion of the capture of Paris? And Germany's supply of raw materials? Residents of Coventry are very grateful to you.
            I do not blame anyone, it was also a business.
            1. J_silver
              +12
              13 January 2012 18: 14
              It seems like only a couple of years, how did they pay? If you assume that they did not pay ...
            2. +16
              13 January 2012 19: 13
              NO, dear fucking sixteen ... so what I consider myself patient, but read this ...
              Ventilate the question first - the Bretton Woods Agreement, 1948 ... it is very clearly stated there ... the USSR paid off not only debts under Lend-Lease, but also the royal debts ...
              and Edinburgh was ... raised, how much did they give us? for outstanding debts?
              Pop my eyes, with such a knowledge of history - you’re still climbing into the forums ..
              Where did you come from ??
              1. -14
                14 January 2012 12: 57
                The Bretton Woods Conference was held in 1944 and other issues were addressed.

                The USSR did not pay off debts under Lend-Lease. royal debts, he also never recognized
                1. Denzel13
                  +1
                  19 January 2012 18: 10
                  Really down! Read the docs. And not ours, read Pindos.
              2. gor
                gor
                -4
                15 January 2012 14: 11
                in fact, no one has repaid anything under the lend-lease and there is an agreement on deferred payment until 202 of a certain year. so don’t bother
                and the United States for 4 years delivered more than 20 gdp of the Soviet Union. Here is what a miserable help was
              3. Taratut
                0
                30 August 2012 15: 12
                What are you slowing down? Who should give you something?
                Edinburgh had gold for England's first pre-dolly shipments. This is their gold.
                Lend-lease debts are what we used after the war. Equipment, for example, machines. Do you want to pay? Bring back used.
                1. 0
                  30 August 2012 23: 23
                  You understand what you said?
            3. PLO
              +7
              13 January 2012 19: 34
              if you remember Loza's memoir "Tankman on a Foreign Car" it says in black and white about how they were going to return the Shermans after the war.

              Ships arrived, at first they refused to load tanks, but they demanded airplanes, loaded them, crushed them with presses and threw them off the coast.
            4. orion-sticks
              +17
              13 January 2012 20: 26
              In order to get an economic leap and the Second World War was unleashed, not the US citizens were to blame for this, but the Fed, the Rothschilds, Kuns, Abraham, Morgan and others like them. However, 2 tons of gold was paid, let England. The Americans were so happy that they got Vernan von Braun and German advanced technologies that, in order not to anger Stalin, they looked through Lend-Lease through their fingers, but the surviving equipment was painted and transferred to the Americans, where it was immediately cut and sent as scrap metal to USA.
              And Sicily, Crete, Africa Dunkirk, Britain in comparison with Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk, Sorry, the battles can be called a stretch. I have great respect and gratitude for the British and American sailors who spared sea caravans in the USSR without sparing their belly. And turn the civilians of Coventry, I am sorry not less than the inhabitants of Khatyn. By BUSINESS, I did not mean soldiers and citizens, but Ford, etc., who warmed their hands on this.
              1. lesnik
                +6
                13 January 2012 20: 31
                totally agree
            5. +10
              13 January 2012 22: 57
              SWEET_SIXTEENyes DUNKERK- this super battle wink for 1 month there is no breaking up and dispersing the French-English corps, which excelled them in everything! wink
            6. +2
              15 January 2012 14: 41
              Again, a lie - about the delivery of equipment .... my grandfather told me that even the reminstrument at Studebaker was forced to complete completely, otherwise they didn’t take ....... how much noodles could be hung on my ears ...
            7. +3
              18 January 2012 16: 16
              You forgot another operation to save Private Ryan! How so! This is one of the most important! Tipping! Stalingrad is not worth it!
        2. +10
          13 January 2012 11: 59
          Move away from the topic to the side. We are not talking about deliveries. By the way, they were paid for in gold.
        3. 0
          15 January 2012 09: 58
          SWEET_SIXTEEN,
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          And why did they not please him?

          eng
      2. Denzel13
        +1
        19 January 2012 18: 06
        By the way, Ivan Nikitovich Kozhedub in 1945, after the Pindos pilots soaked one lavochkin in a crowd, mistaking him for a FV 190, shot down two P51 Mustangs with Pindos on board. Such was the "cooperation". The command's reaction to this was unequivocal - "... let's write down the future war."
        PS And yet, the same Kozhedub I.N. commanding a fighter air division in 1950-1951. shot down 17 Pindos aircraft during the Korean War. Although he was banned from flying as three times by the GSS, he did it during the absence of the political officer in the unit. And the Chinese kept the records (the division was based on their territory), and so during Kozhedub's funeral, a representative of the Chinese Ministry of Defense presented his relatives with the highest award of the PRC and an official document confirming the downed aircraft. So they "allied".
    3. wk
      +18
      13 January 2012 11: 33
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      But seriously, the Western Theater of War has existed since 3 on September 1939.

      and these military actions were called "STRANGE WAR" even among Western historians of that time, who, unlike their followers, did not have time to adopt the "invaluable" experience of Goebel's propaganda.
      1. -19
        13 January 2012 15: 00
        "Strange War" - a short period of 1939 - 1940, there was no active action on the ground, but there was a tough squabble in the air and at sea. Bismarck, Arc-Royal, U-47, Otto Kretschmer - do these names tell you anything?
        1. +11
          13 January 2012 19: 49
          Of course they say, and "Bismarck" and "Hood" and "Prince of Wales" and showdown in Scapa Flow. But posters like "We won't shoot first in this war" and football with the Hans also tell us a lot. It is one thing when the Kringsmarines take Albion by the throat with a naval blockade, and quite another is a specific proposal to turn the Wehrmacht to the east. Don't be cunning about Lend-Lease. They paid for the supplies in gold, or are you seriously saying that after the sinking of the Edinburgh, the Allies switched to charity? I am sure that supplies (especially American ones) were of great importance. Moreover, it is vehicles, communications, gasoline, aluminum, gunpowder and a host of other strategically important materials. But the purpose of these supplies, I am sure, was not to support the USSR, but to weaken Germany. Surely remember - "And let them kill each other as much as possible." Of course, the landing in Normandy brought the end of the war closer, but putting it on the same level as the Battle of Stalingrad or the Kursk Bulge is at least despicable.
          1. +1
            14 January 2012 12: 35
            What to do with a ball in Moscow on the occasion of the capture of Paris by the Germans or the Russian-German parade in Brest, on the occasion of the capture of Poland?
            "And let them kill each other as much as possible"

            No one puts Normandy on the level of the Battle of Stalingrad, except for the Russian false patriots in their articles ... they have an inferiority complex, it seems all the time that someone offends them
            Ordinary Americans are much more interested in the Civil War of the North and South than Normandy. In the end, the United States had its own Pacific theater of operations, much more interesting than Normandy
            1. J_silver
              +5
              14 January 2012 12: 49
              There was no joint parade in Brest - the parade is something else ...
              Take an interest in circumstances at your leisure, if this is of course interesting to you ...
            2. +7
              14 January 2012 13: 32
              Yes, the ball and parade are serious. (by the way, at the expense of the ball, I was enlightened, I was not aware) But the trade of American firms with the Third Reich is so - self-indulgence. They are private traders, with whom they want to trade. (so as not to be unfounded - US Standart oil). "And let them kill each other as much as possible"
              I don't care about the interest of ordinary Americans in this or that war. In the end, they live in a "free" country and are free to choose which episode and with what quality to study. But then you got in with your comments on a topic that leaves no one indifferent here.
              1. +1
                14 January 2012 14: 08
                But the trade of American firms with the third Reich is so - pampering
                Mutually beneficial cooperation between the USSR and the Reich is not mischief. When the Germans burned Coventry, thousands of tons of grain, coal and oil crossed the border of the USSR and the Reich daily. Lipetsk flying school - the cradle of the Luftwaffe
                "And let them kill each other as much as possible"

                Of course, the landing in Normandy brought the end of the war closer, but putting it on a par with the Battle of Stalingrad or the Kursk Bulge was at least mean.
                These are your words.
                In fact, no one puts on one level Normandy and Stalingrad, except for you and the same defenders of Russian history.
                1. +5
                  14 January 2012 17: 34
                  "Mutually beneficial cooperation between the USSR and the Reich" took place when the two countries were bound by a non-aggression pact (remind you who violated it?). While the same Union Banking Corporation (director and vice president of one of the Bushes) supported the financing of the Reich already during the war. "And let them kill each other as much as possible"
                  And on the account of the fact that someone puts on one level the Battle of Stalingrad and the landing in Normandy, then yes, I blurted out in a rage. This someone, who is the same as you, the defender of the American version of the victory in this war, puts this landing at the forefront of this victory, considering the Eastern Front an insignificant episode of World War II.
                  1. -6
                    14 January 2012 20: 11
                    Mutually beneficial cooperation between the USSR and the Reich "took place when the two countries were bound by a non-aggression pact
                    Those. The Soviet Union, until recently, sought not to enter the war. Someone after this yells that the cowardly Americans did not want to open the Second Front for a long time.
                    (although the second front has existed since September 3, 1939. D-Day is only the date of the start of the Allied offensive in France, and nothing more)

                    While the same Union Banking Corporation (director and vice president supported the financing of the Reich already during the war.
                    If the cunning businessmen brought several tankers to the Reich and sold a couple of tons of copper, this does not mean that American society supported the Reich.

                    Here is how some citizens of the USSR supported the Reich:
                    • Division 'Russia', also - Division "Russland"
                    • SS Volunteer Regiment "Varyag"
                    • 1 Russian National SS Team “Druzhina”, also known as 1 Russian National SS Team
                    • 29-I Grenadier Division of the SS (Russian Nr.1)
                    • 30-I Grenadier Division of the SS (2-I Russian)
                    • 602th East Battalion
                    • 645 Battalion
                    • Separate Russian battalions No. 601-620, 627-650, 661-669 (by July 1943 there were 78)
                    • 29th SS RONA assault brigade B.V. Kaminsky

                    This someone, who is the same as you, the defender of the American version of the victory in this war, puts this landing at the forefront of this victory, considering the Eastern Front an insignificant episode of World War II.
                    I do not know such people. These are fantasies of Russian false patriots who have an inferiority complex - it seems to them that someone is trying to take away their history.
                    1. +4
                      14 January 2012 22: 52
                      The Soviet Union concluded an agreement with Germany after Britain and France refused joint actions with our country against the Nazis.
                      (by the way, I did not use the phrase "cowardly Americans", you used it).
                      While listing the various formations, you forgot to mention the ROA and the numerous "hivis", but they all fought themselves, with varying success, and did not push the war on both sides.
                      The fact that you define me as a false patriot I leave on your conscience. Yes, they are trying to take away our history and you know perfectly well who and how. I do not consider it necessary to give any more arguments in my favor. My grandfather has the Order of Glory for the Oder and the medal "For the capture of Berlin". This is my highest truth.
                      1. -8
                        15 January 2012 00: 26
                        The Soviet Union concluded an agreement with Germany after Britain and France refused joint action against Nazis with our country
                        Czech Ambassador Benes bombarded the USSR Foreign Ministry with questions: "Will the USSR help Czechoslovakia as a member of the League of Nations?" The union behaved no less despicably, maintaining complete silence.
                        "The hottest places in hell are for those who remained neutral in times of severe turmoil."

                        While listing the various formations, you forgot to mention the ROA and the numerous "hivis", but they all fought themselves, with varying success, and did not push the war on both sides.
                        But the Russian SS battalions did not fight on their own, fully speaking on the side of the Reich.

                        Yes, they are trying to take away history from us and you know perfectly well who and how.
                        I do not know. Ordinary Americans show "thumbs up" at the word "Stalingrad"; they know and respect the battle.

                        My grandfather has the Order of Glory for the Oder and the medal "For the capture of Berlin". This is my highest truth.
                        Let's do it without false pathos. After all, you certainly can’t explain the meaning of your last phrase))
                      2. +7
                        15 January 2012 10: 25
                        On the first point: To defend Czechoslovakia, it was necessary to send troops there. Neither England, nor France, nor Poland gave this go-ahead. How could one talk about any help without this?
                        On the second point. Do you understand what you said? Or pretended not to understand what I said?
                        On the third point? It is enough to read E. Beevor's "Stalingrad" (a bestseller in the United States, in England) to understand your (Western) attitude to this event. Spiteful, with Mongoloid faces, the Russians completely accidentally killed the white and fluffy German soldiers, who, again, quite by accident ended up on the Volga.
                        On the fourth point. For me, this is not a false pathos, but the usual human pride and guarantee that my children and grandchildren will know the truth about this war and no manipulation of numbers and names will confuse them. I lucidly explained the meaning of my last phrase from the previous comment?
                        And the last one. You are so meticulously responding to every comment to your comment that you get the impression that you are either extremely polite or you are working out some kind of standard. Judging by how you use numbers, names and even graphic material, most likely the latter. It’s even interesting - is it a requirement of the soul or is it just such a job?
                      3. -6
                        15 January 2012 16: 51
                        On the first point: To defend Czechoslovakia, it was necessary to send troops there
                        It was enough to declare your intentions. The USSR had every chance to put pressure on Germany, the entire industry of the Reich depended on its supplies (and orders, which are much more important).

                        You forgot to mention the ROA and numerous "hivis", but they all fought themselves, with varying success, and did not push the war on both sides.
                        But the Russian SS battalions did not fight on their own, fully speaking on the side of the Reich.

                        It is enough to read E. Beevor "Stalingrad" (bestseller in the States, in England)
                        Do you personally control the US book market? Then where does the claim that it is a bestseller come from? You shouldn't trust the cloying-patriotic sites and the newspaper "Speed-info"

                        a guarantee that my children and grandchildren will know the truth about this war and that no manipulation of numbers and names will confuse them
                        Without the ability to analyze and objectively evaluate, the next generation of Russians runs the risk of being left without aviation, for the sky is the heavenly firmament)) But much more often, jingoistic patriotism with the highest truth simply leads to the Tsushima pogrom or another Vyazemsky catastrophe.
                        Just stop nagging someone else's story and get down to business.
                        "Everything will pass. And it will pass" / Solomon /

                        Judging by how you use numbers, names and even graphic material, most likely the last
                        Stupidity
                      4. +4
                        15 January 2012 18: 27
                        I answer the last time. I have no control over the US book market, nor do I control Britain. I do not read "Speed-info" (amazed at your knowledge of the content of our newspaper markets). I learned about the contents of the book from the book. The fact that she learned the bestseller from the annotation (cobbled together with a fair amount of piety to the author)
                        I remind you that after Tsushima there was Halki Gol and the defeat of the Kwantung army, after Vyazma there were Stalingrad, Kursk, Berlin.
                        It’s just you who is engaged in storytelling. Just look at the comments for this article. I am very glad that I was mistaken in your professional affiliation. You are simply defending your truth on a Russian site, right? Let's just say - a knight (without fear, but with reproach). This surprised me even more. Okay, come on. Arguing with you is like throwing peas at a wall. Went to engage in daily affairs.
                        PS If for the report it is necessary to reserve the last word, then I authorize, write something else. I will not answer. But I warn you - without rudeness!
                      5. -4
                        16 January 2012 10: 30
                        Actually, what is the essence of the conversation:
                        False patriots write a crazy thesis "The Americans are putting Normandy on the level of Stalingrad." And they themselves begin to argue with him, mocking the stupidity of the Americans. This is not an invention of false patriots, this is a polemical device called Sophistry.

                        The meaning of all this is to run into American history and once again pinch the United States. If it is not possible to compare the present, it is necessary to compare the events of the past, when the USSR could still be proud of something.

                        Naturally, such arrivals will not remain unanswered. False patriots are tactfully hinted that they do not see the logs in their eyes. There are many unpleasant moments in the history of the Second World War. And many of the tragedies for which it is customary to blame the bloody amers or the British are our common shame (like, for example, PQ-17). Although this is in the West for a long time no one is interested. As they say, do not touch, it does not stink.

                        70 years have passed. It's time to learn how to be proud of something else. The Great Victory gradually goes into the depths of history.
                        "Everything will pass. And it will pass." / Solomon /
                      6. lesnik
                        +2
                        17 January 2012 00: 13
                        B l, you are the most rotten political officer, you just, ir
                      7. J_silver
                        +5
                        15 January 2012 10: 29
                        It is despicable to mention the silence of the USSR during the partition of Czechoslovakia - they were ready to come to the rescue, but Poland categorically began to object ...
                        And how can one come to the aid of a country to which at least a couple of borders of a not very friendly state?
                      8. Taratut
                        0
                        30 August 2012 15: 15
                        Nobody was going to go anywhere. We knew in advance that neither Poland nor Romania would let us through. Therefore, we safely performed the play "Hold Me Seven".
                      9. 0
                        30 August 2012 23: 30
                        You did not know anything and did not want to know. Cheap you are a man. This is not an insult, it is a diagnosis. I based my comments on this article (six months ago) on the memoirs I read (both on the one and the other side). Based on what are you talking about the performance? Because you have to say that? I'm surprised that you got here. Are you gaining points? Oh well
                      10. +3
                        15 January 2012 15: 06
                        Czech Ambassador Benes bombarded the USSR Foreign Ministry with questions: "Will the USSR help Czechoslovakia as a member of the League of Nations?" The union behaved no less despicably, maintaining complete silence. -.... that's exactly the opposite ... the Czechs were waiting until the very end for the help of the Western allies, who sold them offal to Hitler ..... have a good conscience
                      11. gor
                        gor
                        -3
                        15 January 2012 18: 57
                        and someone deliberately holds back that the territory that was left to the Soviet Union and which Germany were divided into this agreement. That is, they were shared. It looks like a peace treaty. The agreement on the division of the occupied countries can be called the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact
                    2. J_silver
                      +4
                      15 January 2012 10: 26
                      You would at least for a laugh in Wiki were curious about what "citizens of the USSR" some of these formations consisted of! So difficult? Will the discovery be that most of these formations are close to the division of Batko Gritian Tavrichesky? And they consisted of former White Guards, for example?
                      Although, in fairness, it should be recognized that there were enough traitors - well, there are the most objective explanations for this ...
                      By the way, with all the desire it would have been difficult for the Germans to create some units from the captured Allied soldiers - if in almost all memories the scale of the "battles" is emphasized by the enumeration of half companies and, in "grandiose battles", regiments and battalions ...
                      1. -4
                        16 January 2012 10: 38
                        No, J_Silver, once these units consisted of captured Red Army soldiers and residents of the occupied territories.
                        I specifically did not mention all kinds of ROA, Cossack detachments, Cepellin Organization, etc., which consisted of Russian white emigration

                        Naturally, no one called them to the front. The Germans had no confidence that the natives would not throw. But they fought with the partisans. If not for the Russian SS battalions, the Reich would not have been able to control the vast occupied territories
                      2. gor
                        gor
                        -2
                        16 January 2012 14: 22
                        and Vlasov, in fact, before captivity was a red commander who fought against Germany in the ranks of the Red Army. Then the Vlasov army miraculously appeared
                      3. J_silver
                        +1
                        16 January 2012 19: 18
                        You are confusing - it was these units that consisted of fugitive White Guards ...
                      4. gor
                        gor
                        0
                        16 January 2012 20: 29
                        take an interest in who Vlasov was and how he first commanded the Soviet troops in my direction of the Rzhev. Then refute me. By the way, I could be wrong about the direction
                        Former Soviet lieutenant general [1]. In 1942 he fell into German captivity and went into cooperation with the Nazis against the USSR, becoming the head of the military organization of collaborators from Soviet prisoners of war - the Russian Liberation Army (ROA). In 1945 he was captured by the Red Army, in 1946 he was convicted of treason and executed.
                      5. lesnik
                        +3
                        16 January 2012 23: 34
                        insisted on your game together SWEET_SIXTEEN, I do not know what caused your adequate, against the USSR, My great-grandfather died, my grandfather fought and he reached Berlin !!! and I really do not want to read remarks about the superiority of the Allied troops in the realities of the war, where you were not here !!! about the "second front" the question was raised seriously from 42, UNTIL Stalin set conditions in Tehran for the struggle !!! and asked for a reprieve Churchill (pidr) in the hope that then he will grab a piece in EUROPE while the US is at war with the USSR! "!!! do not E" beat your brain! I am a patriot of my COUNTRY, but against the authorities !!! AND YOU NITS are looking for a place that is warmer ...
                      6. gor
                        gor
                        -1
                        17 January 2012 11: 49
                        my grandfather fought and was wounded while forcing the oder and I remember what he told me. and don’t have to squeeze yourself out so specifically that you are a patriot. If you were a patriot, you would be happy for the army to be trained, equipped and be an army , but they wouldn’t make a humpbacked one here that we’ll even beat everyone with sticks. the spirit is higher. it can be very high, but there is no reception against the scrap if there is no other scrap. I would send people like you with sticks somewhere in hot points for you to write glorious pages about exploits
                      7. Denzel13
                        +3
                        19 January 2012 18: 35
                        I thought about how to contact you, but the word respected is clearly not suitable. So I was, am and will be a partyot of the USSR (to which I swore the oath, although I served from 1989 to 1997), and during this period not a single place called by you "hot spot" passed me by. I do not harbor any illusions about our current state, and did not harbor them when I served. And the only reason why I did my job for so long was 2 things:
                        1) They killed Russians - women, children - indiscriminately;
                        2) The desire that the maximum number of people entrusted to me return home.
                        Therefore, I have the opportunity to judge a lot that is connected with this, including the feat. And I grew up in a family where all men since the age of 16 fought, moreover, they fought with dignity and I was brought up on their stories about the Second World War. What and who raised you, I think, is clear to everyone. Protect Pindos and their culture - communicate with them on their sites. What have you forgotten here?
                      8. J_silver
                        0
                        18 January 2012 09: 38
                        First understand what is at stake, and then get into the conversation!
                        At the moment, the question of the abovementioned units and formations is being discussed - and it was there that there were mainly fluent White Guards, there should be a special discussion about Vlasov ...
                      9. gor
                        gor
                        -2
                        16 January 2012 20: 43
                        and one more amendment. how many Germans do you know who fought against Germany? how many English? how many Americans, how many Japanese are fighting against their peoples. so first you have to realize something to beat yourself in the chest
                    3. +2
                      17 January 2012 20: 28
                      16-year-old - did not mention:

                      15th SS Grenadier Division (1st Latvian)
                      19th SS Grenadier Division (2nd Latvian)
                      14th SS Grenadier Division "Galicia"
                      20 SS Infantry Division (Estonian)

                      And as some citizens of Europe supported the Wehrmacht:

                      33 SS Charlemagne Grenadier Division (1st French)
                      28th Volunteer Division Grenadier SS "Wallonia"
                      27th SS Volunteer Division "Langemark" (Flemish)
                      26th SS Grenadier Division "Hungaria" (2nd Hungarian)
                      25th SS Grenadier Division "Hunyadi" (1st Hungarian)
                      13th SS Mountain Division "Handshar" (Croatian)
                      23rd Panzer-Grenadier Division "Netherlands"
                      34 Volunteer Grenadier "Landstorm Netherlands"
                      23rd SS Mountain Division "Kama" (Croatian)
                      21 SS Mountain Division "Skanderberg" (Albanian)
                      29th Grenadier Division SS (Italian)
                      11 SS Panzer-Grenadier Division "Nordland" (Danish-Norwegian)
                      Serbian SS Volunteer Corps
                      Bulgarian SS regiment
                      SS volunteer unit "Legion of St. George" (liberated British POWs and Commonwealth citizens)
                      and a whole bunch of regiments, battalions and smaller units, and this is without the Wehrmacht, in which there were Czech, Slovak units. So there were no less Europeans in the Reich.

                      The Lipetsk aviation school and Kazan tank were closed shortly after Hitler came to power, in 1934-35.

                      Ordinary Americans under 35 in the vast majority of Stalingrad have no idea.

                      70 years have passed. It's time to learn how to be proud of something else. The Great Victory gradually goes into the depths of history.


                      But the victory in this war is necessary for us and our grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
                      1. -3
                        18 January 2012 10: 15
                        Hungary, Croatia, Bulgaria and Italy are Axis countries, official allies of Germany, so the appearance of Italians or Hungarians in the SS troops is self-evident.

                        But the victory in this war is necessary for us and our grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
                        Cyber, you can hardly name the date of the Great Battle of Borodino without Wikipedia, you are a patriotic patriot wink
                2. ISO
                  ISO
                  +1
                  18 January 2012 12: 54
                  When the Germans were taught, then there was a completely different political situation. At that time, each country played its own game, therefore, to call someone’s actions decent and someone’s is not meaningless. So the Germans developed field tools for us, Pindos engines indiscriminately for everyone, etc. By the way, you haven't mentioned chemists yet.
                  The USSR, and for nothing, did not need a premature war with Germany, therefore, they sent resources even when they stopped paying, this is about business and decency. And for the agreement of Molotov Ribentropp, the Japs aloizychu at a critical moment, the fact was shown instead of opening a second front in the Far East.
                3. 0
                  11 August 2013 18: 58
                  Lipetsk flying school of the cradle of the Luftwaffe?))) For all the work she trained 20 pilots))) And note the cooperation of the Weimar Republic and the USSR. With the advent of Hitler, both the flying school and the tank were closed, and all the teaching and technical staff with the cadets were urgently sent back to Germany. In addition to the Germans, Soviet commanders of the armored forces were trained there, our engineers and skilled workers were trained.
    4. mengeleff
      +21
      13 January 2012 11: 37
      SWEET_SIXTEEN
      If there were no day D, the USSR ...

      the sky would fall to the earth and the Jews would accept Christianity among the Japanese eyes became round and big in Africa the birth rate decreased and the Chechen war did not start lol lol
    5. +8
      13 January 2012 12: 17
      Darling, you have to study history. The Soviet Union only lost warriors before Berlin, this is the price of betrayal of the West. And when Zhukov dragged the Anglo-Americans along the course of 200 km, with the permission of Stalin, then not a single soldier was lost. Did you forget this or don’t want to remember?
      1. +1
        13 January 2012 23: 15
        . And you forgot it or don’t want to remember?; No, just the media and history are silent about it ......
    6. +9
      13 January 2012 12: 39
      SWEET_SIXTEEN,
      "If it weren't for D-day, the USSR would have ended the war sometime in 1947." And if there were no Ardennes, the war would probably still go on? wink
      1. +2
        18 January 2012 20: 01
        So the Germans drunk the Anglo-Saxons in the Ardennes so that their mother did not cry! Howled! Help Comrade Stalin! Help pancake. We laid on Balaton half a million lives saving allies.
    7. Charon
      +7
      13 January 2012 13: 32
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      But seriously, the Western Theater of War has existed since 3 on September 1939.


      Comrade is not quite in the subject.
    8. SmacXnumx
      +7
      13 January 2012 14: 51
      SWEET_SIXTEEN
      But seriously, the Western Theater

      That's exactly how theater (operetta) and not military
      all life is a game and "Ffelikie allies" in it the actors are no more and, moreover, lousy
    9. +1
      19 January 2012 20: 18
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      But seriously, the Western Theater of War has existed since 3 on September 1939.
      and tuli to sense from such actions ??

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      If there had been no D-day, the USSR would have ended the war in some 1947 year, having lost several million more soldiers. So many of the false patriots in this forum could simply not have been born.
      If there were no D-day, OUR MORE would die. BUT ... BUT fundamentally it WAS NOT IMPOSED ON ANYTHING !! And with the losses that WE suffered (for example - in Stalingrad), unfortunately, to the GREAT regret - the eighth point after the commas .... And so to dilute the drooling as adherents of the point of view "The US won the war in Normandy" before the battle not after. With such saliva, you take away a BLOODY victory from those who won it !!
    10. +1
      20 January 2012 14: 31
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      The Western Theater of War has existed since 3 on September 1939.

      and tuli to sense ???
  2. +10
    13 January 2012 09: 44
    Article class!
    And amused and interesting.
    Thanks
  3. Evgan
    +7
    13 January 2012 10: 00
    Yes, it is written amusingly, but the look is one-sided: one might get the impression that the main difficulty of the allies was the absence of hairdressing salons. For a humorous article - the very thing, but for a historical article "does not roll."
    In any case, the landing in Normandy does not attract the role of the "main battle", although, of course, thanks to the allies for it.
    1. 0
      13 January 2012 18: 13
      Eugene An, so I suppose .... Or am I mistaken?
      1. Evgan
        0
        16 January 2012 10: 04
        Short for First Name
  4. Freedom eagle
    +1
    13 January 2012 10: 04
    The "author" is familiar with the topic of the question superficially, in this article there is not even anything to comment on - it is all rotten rotten stuff!
    1. mengeleff
      +15
      13 January 2012 11: 10
      Freedom eagle
      ko ko ko

      You do not philosophize but just continue to suck at the State Department wink
      1. SmacXnumx
        +10
        13 January 2012 11: 31
        mengeleff
        You do not philosophize but just continue to suck at the State Department wink

        yes Freedom Eagle do not philosophize suck!
      2. +4
        15 January 2012 15: 11
        Cormorants did not give a word ....
    2. +23
      13 January 2012 11: 57
      Let them sniff until they plucked
      1. Dmitry.V
        +4
        13 January 2012 18: 24
        It's a pity I can't insert the image, "Close the chicken beak!"
      2. +3
        13 January 2012 23: 18
        Yes, even if you pluck it, it is still not suitable for food ......
    3. +13
      13 January 2012 12: 01
      To refute the facts is always difficult.
  5. Reader
    +13
    13 January 2012 10: 44
    "Heroic landing" This is true in quotes, you need to take also the words "Trapped allies" from which there was much more harm than good wink
    1. Evgan
      -5
      13 January 2012 13: 25
      What harm was our country from the Anglo-Americans during the war? Facts please.
      1. Reader
        +10
        13 January 2012 14: 20
        The unprepared offensive of the USSR and the victims for the sake of the Americans and the British, who needed them?
        In January 1945, the Anglo-American forces in the Alsace-Ardennes operation suffered a major defeat. From complete defeat saved them Red Army, which at the request of Churchill urgently went on the offensive.
        Pindos thanked us for this when, by negotiations with the Nazis, they actually betrayed the Russians of the USSR
        March 6, 1945. Himmler’s personal assistant Karl Wolf and Allen Dallas secretly met in Zurich
        1. Evgan
          -8
          13 January 2012 14: 29
          That is, all the other victims of the English and Yankees do not count? Let's not stick out some facts and hide others. Yes, the Allies could do more for us. Yes, a second front could have been opened earlier. Yes, the Americans did not want to risk their lives for us. But North Africa, the landing in Sicily and Normandy, the battle in the Atlantic distracted significant (not overwhelming, but having a certain strategic military significance) German forces. I will say cynically - thanks to the Americans and the British for the 300 or 400 thousand that they put in the fight against fascism, because otherwise these 300 or 400 thousand could not be counted in our country.
          And about the meeting between Wolf and Dallas - what has changed? The Yankees did not get out of the war, and the Cold War would have taken place without this meeting.
          1. orion-sticks
            +12
            13 January 2012 21: 02
            Towards the end of the war, the Red Army fighters were so fired upon and motivated that forgive cynicism, where the Allies lost 400 thousand, our would have lost 40 thousand. Of course, German aircraft constantly flew to bomb Britain. This dragged some forces from the eastern front. But the whole landing in Normandy at the end of the war was not like opening a second front, but like a jackal sortie to share a fat pie.
            1. Evgan
              0
              16 January 2012 10: 07
              Yes, even so. Or are these conditional 40 thousand of ours not people, like, they don’t feel sorry for them? I don’t care how many Yankees died in terms of ours, but even if it’s 10 to 1, I still thank them for this conditionally saved one.
          2. +2
            15 January 2012 15: 17
            Quote: EvgAn
            And what about the meeting between Wolf and Dallas - what has changed
            .... yes, one fact of negotiations speaks of the vile essence of pseudo-allies, and you write like Churchill and Roosevelt met like that
            1. Evgan
              0
              16 January 2012 10: 08
              Everyone played for themselves. The USSR also signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, guided not by moral considerations, but by pragmatic ones. And who will blame him for this?
        2. SmacXnumx
          +5
          13 January 2012 14: 35
          Reader
          The unprepared offensive of the USSR and the victims for the sake of the Americans and the British, who needed them?

          + One hundred million well, the Germans would have thrown this misunderstanding into the English Channel what problems would have undertaken the second "Heroic" landing in Normandy, they are the "great liberators of EFFropa" but it turns out that in fact we even liberated France for them am
          1. Evgan
            -5
            13 January 2012 14: 39
            Quote: Smac27
            we even freed France for them


            Maybe Africa and Italy to the heap? :)
        3. +2
          15 January 2012 15: 15
          Yes, Stalin saved the allies from a complete defeat in the Ardennes by starting the fully refined Operation Bagiration .... how many Soviet soldiers died thanks to such allies?
          1. Evgan
            +1
            16 January 2012 10: 17
            Montgomery fought in Africa against Rommel. How many Soviet soldiers were saved by those battles (far from always glorious for the Britons)?
            Zhukov and Rokossovsky fought near Stalingrad. How many Yankees saved this battle?
            Eisenhower and Patton fought in Italy. How many of our fellow citizens survived thanks to this?
            We carried out Operation Bagration. How many allies survived? ...

            You can continue and measure your losses for a long time. But the allies in general (I emphasize - in general) helped us. Would we have done without them? At the initial stage of the war, I don't know. At the final one, they would definitely manage. But in any case, with slightly larger losses. And now to brand them for that? To paraphrase a little, I do not want to be "Ivan, who does not remember the good."
            1. J_silver
              +1
              16 January 2012 19: 21
              Do you think the tanks painted in sand color near Moscow arrived from Mars? So do not deny a direct connection ...
              In principle, they managed at the beginning, cost at the end - thank you very much for your help!
            2. gor
              gor
              -2
              16 January 2012 20: 39
              I watched the film today by geography. So the retreat near Kursk was due to the fact that the Allies landed in Sicily and Hitler gave the order to leave because he said that they were losing Italy. And what? And this is a historical fact. So you can bleat for a long time, but the truth is one
              1. lesnik
                +2
                16 January 2012 23: 38
                again american
                1. gor
                  gor
                  -2
                  17 January 2012 11: 54
                  it’s a historical fact and it makes no difference who shot it. It doesn’t smell like propaganda. And it’s all as it was and no one was in color. In fact, google and compare dates and a lot of things. And the opinion of many military historians comes down to one In the opinion that the Kursk arc could have been lost if the Germans had not retreated then. Since the Zhukov had no reserves left, the steppe front was thrown almost entirely. And this is from the memoirs of Manstein. He was furious when he received a retreat order from Hitler
                  1. J_silver
                    0
                    18 January 2012 09: 40
                    They could surrender Moscow, they could even Stalingrad - but they could not lose the Battle of Kursk under any circumstances ...
              2. Denzel13
                +1
                19 January 2012 18: 46
                What caused the retreat of the Wehrmacht near Kursk? Yes, learn to look at several sources at once on the same occasion! I watched a Pindos movie, or even a domestic one (also different truth "historians") and speaks about the facts. At Kursk, the retreat of the Germans was due to the fact that Rokosovsky outplayed Model outright and a number of other factors, which, however, did not correlate with Sicily and the "allies".
      2. Evgan
        0
        13 January 2012 14: 30
        Ask for the facts, and you will be rejected ... well, well, comrades :)
        1. SmacXnumx
          +1
          13 January 2012 14: 37
          do not make laugh, I did not rinse you wink
          who needs you This is a fact!
          1. Evgan
            -2
            13 January 2012 14: 40
            Yes, as it were, I’m not talking about you :)
            And I need at least myself. And some more :)
            1. SmacXnumx
              +1
              13 January 2012 14: 45
              Evgan,
              And I need at least myself. And some more :)

              I'm glad you went to free Palestine from the Jews for you wink
              1. Evgan
                0
                13 January 2012 14: 47
                Go. I'm not bad in Russia either.
                1. SmacXnumx
                  0
                  13 January 2012 14: 48
                  no, only you are not a warrior in the field lol
                  1. Evgan
                    +1
                    13 January 2012 14: 58
                    So you won’t go, because I’m staying here
              2. +1
                13 January 2012 23: 23
                on which this polestina surrendered to you, we have Turkey, China, the United States, the whole Baltic States, at hand, in which case they will not let you get bored ........
        2. 0
          15 January 2012 15: 18
          And you perceive the given facts inadequately .....
        3. Denzel13
          +1
          19 January 2012 18: 48
          And you try to look for facts yourself - you will learn a lot of new things) Very useful
      3. orion-sticks
        +9
        13 January 2012 20: 43
        But what about Roosevelt's words: "If we see that the Russians are winning, we will help the Germans, and if the Germans are winning, help the Russians. And let them kill each other as much as possible."
      4. gor
        gor
        -3
        15 January 2012 19: 10
        I understand simply from all komenty that the Americans should have fought with Germany themselves and give the USSR their victory. It was because of them that the USSR lost 30 million people. And since they didn’t do it, they should be hated for this. not Germany attacked the USSR and it was necessary to defend the country, as I understand it, the Americans from all these comments))))))) and the USSR did not have to lose its population. It feels like dibily. As you can equate both the eastern and the western theater .and who was to fight for their country? The Americans helped with equipment, food and opened a second front in Europe. Thank you did not forget to say? But they should not have liberated the union
    2. Evgan
      +1
      13 January 2012 14: 45
      By the way, Zhukov’s words:

      “Now they say that the Allies never helped us ... But it cannot be denied that the Americans were driving us so much materials without which we could not form our reserves and could not continue the war ... We did not have explosives, gunpowder. than to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives. And how much sheet steel they drove to us! How could we quickly set up the production of tanks if it were not for American aid with steel? And now they imagine that we have everything it was its abundance.
      ... Without American trucks, we would have nothing to pull our artillery with. "

      It is doubtful that George Konstantinovich had reasons to exaggerate the help of the Yankees. So is it just harm?
  6. gor
    gor
    -22
    13 January 2012 10: 51
    conclusion one allies saved Europe from communism and did not allow ideologies to flourish and preserved for Europeans those values ​​that do not allow a person to turn into cattle
    By the way, many will say that it is trolling because it did not write what you like. Get to know the new term elfing is when everyone blows one another to like one another)))))))))))))

    Yes, for uneducated people. In Omaha, Americans lost about 2 thousand people on the beach a few hundred meters. But they completed the task. Tell us again that they are cowards in that way. Each judge
    1. Reader
      +17
      13 January 2012 10: 54
      gor
      meet the new term elfing is when everything one to another in the ass blow to like one another))))))))))))
      Well, are you doing this on the site? gor c Freedom eagle how do you guys feel good together? lol
      As your senior mentors Anal with Akunin "a conversation between a writer and a politician" part 100500
      mate fagots?
      1. SmacXnumx
        +13
        13 January 2012 11: 03
        Lecturer
        Well, on this site are you doing gor c Freedom Eagle how do you guys feel good together? lol
        As your senior mentors Anal with Akunin "a conversation between a writer and a politician" part 100500
        mate fagots?

        They are each other and money in a mug wink
        1. mengeleff
          +16
          13 January 2012 11: 05
          SmacXnumx
          They are each other and money in a mug wink

          better there is no vagina * than a point comrade lol
          and then the State Department sucks these gor and Freedom Eagle together
    2. orion-sticks
      +9
      13 January 2012 21: 19
      The Americans of World War II were not cowards and caravans drove, and Rommel’s tanks were bogged down from bazookas, but it’s a fact, but the landing in Normandy didn’t play any role in the outcome of the war. But now it’s written in history books that it was a decisive factor for victory. And tomorrow will be it is written that the USSR fought on the side of Hitler.
    3. +1
      15 January 2012 15: 21
      Quote: gor
      Yes, for uneducated people. In Omaha, Americans lost about 2 thousand people on the beach a few hundred meters. But they completed the task. Tell us again that they are cowards in that way. Each judge




      Reply

      YES! - the losses for the global war are simply disastrous ...
  7. +16
    13 January 2012 10: 53
    The article amused - interesting and informative. The scale of the landing operation in Normandy is impressive, but it does not pull in its bitterness even to storm the Köningsberg in 1945, not to mention the more bloody battles. Of course, one should not beg the Allies' contribution to the defeat of fascism, but we know who broke the back of the Wehrmacht’s military machine.
    1. gor
      gor
      -2
      13 January 2012 20: 40
      in fact, no one has done this before or after.
      and as for comrades, everyone judges to the best of their depravity. only pi .... so crowd and rush)))))))))) blow on))))))))
  8. SmacXnumx
    0
    13 January 2012 11: 02
    Reader,
    Well, on this site are you doing gor c Freedom Eagle how do you guys feel good together? lol
    As your senior mentors Anal with Akunin "a conversation between a writer and a politician" part 100500
    mate fagots?

    They are each other and money in a mug wink
  9. -7
    13 January 2012 11: 08
    Among incapable disabled people Zap. Front met such pathetic soldiers as
    Hans Joachim Marcel (170 downed planes)
    Otto Kretschmer (drowned 44 transport and 1 cruiser)
    Michael Wittman (130 Burned Tanks)
    1. +11
      13 January 2012 11: 48
      In your place, Wittmann does not boast:
      Since the spring of 1944 - in Normandy. Here Wittmann became famous in the famous battle at Villers-Bocage on June 13, 1944, where both Wittmann's skill and the technical superiority of the Tiger tank over the Allied vehicles were clearly manifested. Within 15 minutes in Tigris No. 222, which he moved into at the last minute due to engine breakdown in his Tigris No. 205 in the town of Villiers-Boccage, he destroyed 11 tanks, 2 anti-tank guns and 13 armored personnel carriers, completely defeating reconnaissance 7 -th armored division of the British, the so-called "desert rats", which caused a lot of trouble even to Rommel himself and which became famous in Africa. Due to Wittmann's actions, the British breakthrough was eliminated.

      He attributed the order of 138 tanks and self-propelled guns to himself, while most of his victories on the Eastern Front were not confirmed by any Soviet sources. Of these 138 units, 24 is at least one day in the city of Ville-Bockage.
      Participated in operations against Poland, France, Greece. During the invasion of the USSR, he commanded a platoon of assault guns, participated in the battle on the Kursk Bulge. That is, in these few years he destroyed 114 units. Most of all at the beginning of the war with the USSR Tanks BT-60
      1. +1
        13 January 2012 18: 09
        How many rounds per minute can a Tiger gun make?
        One gets the impression that he did not shoot at targets at a dash, but shot at targets ...
        1. +5
          13 January 2012 23: 17
          mark021105, One gets the impression that he didn’t shoot at targets at a dash, but it was! they ran away and threw all !!! technique. Wittman was not at a loss and shot from the heart. while delaying the aglitsk offensive for 2 days. they fight with the Papuans! fellow
          1. -1
            15 January 2012 15: 27
            I wonder how many Yankees and Britons held out against the main forces of the Wehrmacht? A week or two?
        2. 0
          11 August 2013 19: 10
          And so it was. The British got into a mess. Meeting the local people relaxed. The most sent the detachment forward along the road. No outposts were deployed. The tankmen began to repair equipment, arranged laundry and receiving pies from local girls. As a result, when Wittmann jumped on them, only 2 tanks were with crews, although in one Cromwell there was only a mechanic drive and he backed up into the bushes. Another Cromwell fired at the Tiger when he fired at the tanks along the road, and at the side. But to no avail. The return shot destroyed the house behind Cromwell, which was covered with debris. The tiger continued beating with impunity further))) I read it seems at Max Hastings "Operation Overlord: Opening of the Second Front".
      2. lesnik
        +1
        13 January 2012 23: 21
        If I'm not mistaken, then he had two medium tanks and an armored personnel carrier in support, it was described either on this site or on a similar
    2. +6
      13 January 2012 12: 12
      Within 15 minutes on "Tiger" No. 222, which he moved to at the last minute due to engine breakdown in his "Tiger" No. 205 in the city of Villiers-Boccage, he destroyed 11 tanks, 2 anti-tank guns and 13 armored personnel carriers, completely defeating intelligence 7- XNUMXst armored division of the British, the so-called "desert rats", which caused a lot of trouble even to Rommel himself and which became famous in Africa. Due to Wittmann's actions, the British breakthrough was eliminated.
      That's how soyuznichki and fought.
      With such an enemy, it’s not a sin to get 138 cars. (not 130)
      Although most of his exploits on the eastern front are not documented.
      1. -6
        13 January 2012 15: 26
        Read about Operation Big Flogging, May 1943. It turns out that English pilots are mediocre and cowards. Besides, they are stupid.
        1. +2
          15 January 2012 15: 30
          English and American pilots are good when the rule applies - Seven are not afraid of one thing ... 2000 bombers are normal ..... cities that are almost defenseless were completely wiped off the face of the earth (remember Dresden)
          1. -1
            18 January 2012 10: 19
            when 14 Lancaster bombers destroyed 3 dams in one night and left the Reich without electricity for a month

            Half of the crews did not return
      2. gor
        gor
        -1
        13 January 2012 20: 43
        what hero.a that on the Kursk Bulge the losses of the Soviet troops were almost two times higher than the losses of the Germans in armored vehicles. Doesn’t this say anything?
        1. +1
          15 January 2012 15: 30
          .... and this is also discussed ....
    3. +10
      13 January 2012 12: 38
      Hans Joachim Marcel tragically died in September 1942. And what he has to do with the 44th year is not clear.
      And the fact that he made more than 60 British planes in one September, once again talks about how the Allies fought.
      And it’s no secret that for an hour the whole squadron worked for the so-called aces. To which all the victories of the group were attributed. And with confirmation they were weak.
      1. -5
        13 January 2012 15: 24
        Hans Joachim Marcel tragically died in September 1942. And what does he have to 44 year is not clear
        Why you dragged here 44 year, is also not clear. The fighting in the West went from September 3 to 1939 of the year.

        And the fact that he made more than 60 British planes in one September, once again talks about how the Allies fought.
        The Iron Cross in the East was given for 70 downed aircraft. But does anyone say that the Russians fought badly?
    4. irony
      +8
      13 January 2012 23: 54
      When all sorts of clever guys cite the numbers of the downed planes that the German "aces" wrote down to themselves, it becomes homerically funny. Fair. The British (zoeyuzniks) reported so much during the war that according to the air defense data of a separate section of the eastern coast of the island, it turned out that they knocked in as many bombers as the German aircraft industry produced in the period from 1940 to 1945. How they fought! And about how the German pilots fought in Africa, they stupidly shot ammunition into the dunes and returned. They also made a fucking cloud according to the reports. Ours, in order to record the victory at their own expense, required the confirmation of two witnesses and even the posts of VNOS. And everyone who smoked and fell behind the front line from that side was not counted. The only fact is that since the forty-third our flight courses have become longer, while the Germans have reduced and reduced. In Yu. Mukhin's book "Aces and Propaganda", everything is described in detail, with an indication of the sources. Zadolbali jo *** n *** olizy and "pravdoruby".
    5. Denzel13
      0
      19 January 2012 18: 52
      About the number of downed, drowned and burned just do not! Goebbels knew his job, and sculpted the Garoy from what was. They shot down, drowned and burned, but not on a cosmic scale.
  10. +21
    13 January 2012 11: 34
    Good day. Undoubtedly, the merits of the soldiers and officers of the Western Front in that battle with the Nazis cannot be belittled.
    But the merits of the merits are different, and the share of soldiers is a bitter cup.

    The opening of the Western Front was a political decision. It is clear that he was influenced by the advancement of the Soviet troops, which broke the ridge of the fascist beast.

    And as for the quality of military duty - I will give just one example - the crew of the ships included in the Arctic convoys were very happy when they fell into the areas of responsibility of the Soviet Navy.

    And I ask US citizens to remember that the entire land lease was paid for in gold and the Soviet Union paid back the help debt in 45 - defeating the Kwantung Army.
    And I’ll add - Soviet factories did not help the Third Reich with goods like some American firms at the height of 2 Worldwide.
  11. J_silver
    +4
    13 January 2012 12: 18
    I categorically did not like the article - the spirit of it smelly rushing for three miles ....
    Discussing someone else’s story you can’t magnify - it’s definitely ...
    To the address of those. whoever landed ashore, it’s a sin to say anything at all - try it yourself even on an empty one, not to mention that you weren’t very happy there anyway, but a German, albeit of a pre-retirement age. and diabetes, and with platypodia, even the fathers of the loungers stuck in the measure of the corruption of their imagination ...
    You can talk about the seasoned one - there are rich topics, so that you can recall unseemly behavior, but you don’t need to address the soldiers, you won’t deserve fame for this, but you’ll be smeared with shit ...
    1. +14
      13 January 2012 12: 49
      Those articles where they attach almost historic significance to this landing, like a turning point in the Second World War, smell like a sweet smell.
      And here everything is put into place. I agree that it’s rude and a little not correct. But it doesn’t reach some in some other way.
      And the behavior of the soldiers is also clear. They didn’t come home to fight and no one condemns them in this.
      Our soldiers have accumulated that enough for another war.
    2. +2
      15 January 2012 15: 34
      When discussing someone else’s story, you won’t exaggerate it ... so you and your friends do it ... everything is written above by Kaetani ..... read again ...
      1. J_silver
        -2
        16 January 2012 19: 23
        Hey, Obersturmfuhrer, don’t teach me to be a patriot!
        1. +1
          17 January 2012 20: 32
          I didn’t drink with you at the Brudershaft, and we sailors always hung on pirates ....
  12. Freedom eagle
    -21
    13 January 2012 12: 53
    Quote: gor
    conclusion one allies saved Europe from communism and did not allow ideologies to flourish and preserved for Europeans those values ​​that do not allow a person to turn into cattle

    The Allies not only saved Europe from communism, they saved several million more Soviet soldiers from death and reduced the war in the European theater by a year or two. And if there weren’t regular bombardments of Germany by US and British aircraft, the industry would work even more efficiently. And if only for a year or two the Germans would have had an atomic bomb and then one can only guess what would happen to the Soviet Union.
    Well, the fact that the Europeans would have turned into cattle, there is no doubt about this - this is evident from the comments of this IMPRESSION, which switch to personal insults due to the scarcity of their intellect and redneck education.
    I am not going to reciprocate the attacks of the local elves. Let them gall out the gall of malice, they can crow nothing else.
    1. SmacXnumx
      +3
      13 January 2012 13: 30
      Freedom eagle
      I am not going to reciprocate the attacks to which.

      You already answered Elf Gosdepovsky! Peace doorball
    2. mengeleff
      +9
      13 January 2012 13: 35
      Freedom eagle
      Allies gaff gaff saved ...

      Go save Syria from Assad Damn not Russian!
    3. +12
      13 January 2012 13: 56
      It would hardly be a year or two. It seems to me that even without the participation of the Allies, by the fall of 45, the USSR would have ended with Germany the maximum. Germany did not have the strength and ability to resist. Moreover, it was not possible to create an atomic bomb, because the materials from which they could make it were already in the rear of the Soviet army. Moreover, German scientists followed the wrong path to creating AB and could not have created it at any time.
    4. Svyatoslav
      +3
      13 January 2012 15: 43
      It seems that American and British soldiers saved Europe from fascism, and not from communism. Moreover, as a year later, Soviet soldiers were in Berlin, and I do not think that German designers could have time to make an atomic bomb if, of course, they did not do it in Spain or France.
      1. Lech e-mine
        +8
        13 January 2012 15: 48
        it would be better if they saved the WORLD from FASCISM in 1939 and NOT in 1944 they came to the ready. The main forces of Germany were knocked out by the RED ARMY and the Pindos decided to join when it became clear that the Fritz was END ..
        1. Svyatoslav
          +7
          13 January 2012 16: 48
          The fact that they saved the WORLD from fascism is loudly said. And the fact that the contribution of the Soviet army to the Great Victory was enormous is undeniable.
        2. Galina
          +4
          14 January 2012 01: 03
          Thanks for the exact replica.
    5. +11
      13 January 2012 19: 32
      Well done...
      Perhaps that is why .... for Dresden, where there were no military facilities at all, for Cologne, where the same thing, for Bonn, ... for a bunch of such "military" now the Germans cannot stand the Americans. For "Firestorm" ...
      The fact that in Dresden died more than in Hiroshima - you know?
      ".. And if it were not for the regular bombing of Germany by aircraft of the US and Great Britain .."
      Without glorifying the Germans, I’ll say that they at least honestly fought, even flat-footed and one-armed under arms.
      They are two world wars - valiantly prosrali.
      And why not?
      Because England and their contiguous, USA, it was very profitable. They, and only them.
      The rest were paid by millions of dead and disabled people. The collapse of the economy.
      And England and the United States paid off in hundreds of thousands - in return having gained power over the world ..
      But, as the saying goes, "God is not a phony, he sees everything."
    6. wk
      +8
      14 January 2012 04: 52
      Quote: Freedom Eagle
      And if there weren’t regular bombardments of Germany by US and British aircraft, the industry would work even more efficiently.

      what is the justification for the barbaric destruction of Dresden with hundreds of thousands of refugees and the absence of military industry there - only one to incite hatred of the population for the liberation mission of the Soviet Army, which was close to its liberation, to plunge the occupied SA into chaos and panic of the territory, and, as it was, the Jesuit organization : you can not remember, not only the city was bombed, but also the columns of refugees trying to leave it. On the contrary, no success was achieved in the bombing of industrial and military well-defended air defense - even the Allied command recognized this!
  13. +5
    13 January 2012 13: 09
    Freedom Eagle After the adoption of laws on reciprocity to pederasty in the USA, everyone here only hopes that no one will reciprocate towards us ....

    The Nazis were beaten by everyone, the French and the British and the Belgians and Canadians and Australians, and of course the Americans. But sticking out merits belittling the enormous contribution of the Soviet people is a SIN !!!!
    Separate the grain from the chaff - politics from history. The fact that the citizens of Germany lived better than the citizens of the GDR - I can not argue this. The fact that a Soviet soldier is a soldier who defeated the Wehrmacht’s millennium army is a fact. And as was previously voiced on the western front, the army of millions opposed.
    As they say feel the difference
    1. gor
      gor
      -7
      13 January 2012 21: 10
      Yes, and do not forget that the Soviet people consisted of many nationalities. Which, on this site, roughly put in d .... mo.
      and when I say that the American army is a role model I mean. If you take 90 kg of man and put 50 kg of man and one on one, who do you think will have higher morale? 50 kg of man except how to cock and tear his shirt will not go far .so until the first blow.
      and I’ll immediately answer those who tell me what they saw and how it drives 50 kg people 90 kg people. I’ll just clarify a bunch of 50 kg people think that they’re chewing 90 kg people, but for the time being they’re not bringing it up and now this bunch of 50 kg people get together in the face and amicably running. here I also said about fighting spirit. to retort is not to do business
      in general do you know the word dignity? and if you know it, then behave with dignity
      1. Galina
        +6
        14 January 2012 01: 11
        The word "dignity" is not familiar to you.
        I quote you: "Yes, and we must not forget that the Soviet people consisted of many nationalities. On this site, roughly speaking, they are driven into the village .... mo." One gets the impression that your logic is not all right. What nationality is being driven into d .... mo on this site? And what does this remark have to do with the issue under discussion? Or already there is nothing to cover, and this is your last argument?
        1. gor
          gor
          -2
          14 January 2012 15: 31
          yes you guys are all saints. was it not on this site that I saw comments about Georgians as cowards, was it not here that I saw unflattering expressions about Khokhlov. yes and if you collect everything, it will be visible. or maybe I'm mistaken that they write that in all Jews are to blame for world troubles? although Jews, Georgians and everyone else honestly served in the Soviet army. Let's minus me do not care
          and almost the whole world fought against Germany and you can’t do it with cowards as ordinary soldiers who honestly died for their country. The contribution of the United States in the victory over Germany is large and if you be objective, you will understand that the union without the help of the United States broke
          1. 0
            15 January 2012 15: 49
            SW. gor! You do not distort the facts ..... and who told you that there are no fools on this site?
      2. Evil Tatar
        +2
        14 January 2012 22: 30
        Quote: gor
        and I’ll immediately answer those who tell me what they saw and such as driving 50 kg people 90 kg people.

        Spoken, spoken ...
        I'll tell you now ... But first, answer the question who is a "muhach"?
        So, there is just a person weighing 50 kg, and there is a "muhach" - a boxer in the weight category up to 50 kg.
        So my friend - a real "muhach", bowed three people, the same by the way athletes so quickly that three of his colleagues had only to put two more of theirs, next to the first three.
        Even Vasily Shukshin in the film "They Fought for the Motherland" used to say: - the bug is small and it stinks ... "
        Therefore, I am almost 90 kg. weight, but I try not to offend the little ones ...
        And I recommend it to you too...
        1. gor
          gor
          -1
          15 January 2012 14: 22
          hear a fly. you don’t carry it. 50 kg the boxer doesn’t have a heavy blow. and 90 kg doesn’t even fill him up in the fight. You can work on the legs for a start and we’ll see how much you fly. I got a lot of such ambition after two strokes there’s nobody to beat on the legs. And the most interesting are the big guys themselves.
          1. Evil Tatar
            +1
            15 January 2012 15: 41
            Quote: gor
            50 kg the boxer does not have a heavy strike. And 90 kg is not even an athlete will fill him up elementarily going into the fight. You can work on the legs and start


            Hear, DOG ... You first work your head, and only then begin to move your pelvis ...
            Athlete?
            Don’t boast, dude, it’s not given to you anymore ... Relax and relax on the sites of the artisans. There, and imagine yourself a specialist in chest blows and faded low kicks ...
            And henceforth know that the real flyman will do you at once, you won’t have time to blink, karate (type) ...
            1. gor
              gor
              0
              15 January 2012 16: 55
              a couple of flies beat those sure. They themselves ran into it because there was no brain. Down needs to know that 90 kg very well extinguishes a significant part of the blow and plus the blow cannot be strong in 50 kg in itself to muffle the heavy.
              and I can make it clear for a clever why there are weight categories in sports. Yes, because 10 kg of difference already very much affects the results. Specialist))))))))))) and a very good lightweight has no chance against a bad heavy
              1. Evil Tatar
                0
                16 January 2012 20: 25
                Yes, not "flies" you beat, but snotty youngsters who had nothing to do with boxing ...
                I saw that on the Oyama Cup in the late 90s, a Khabarovsk citizen weighing 90 kg. scored Mamurin from Yekaterinburg, which weighs 130 kg.
                I just beat the artisan’s artisan (you know mostly in the chest, and in the legs), and scored the same ... I became the champion.
                And look at Fedor’s Emelianenko.
                Each business has its own talents, plus work, work, work, and not just wave their fists ...
                1. gor
                  gor
                  0
                  16 January 2012 22: 08
                  I didn’t compare it. In general, as adequate or how? 90 and above, it’s a heavy load and there are no restrictions already for 90 kg by weight. Show me 50 kg and 90 kg where 50 kg clogs the heavy.
                  and by the way about the troll. I, unlike you, respected by cheap propaganda, do not do it and just express my opinion. And my opinion is that everything is not so smooth and wrong and the armor and tanks are not so fast. Then if you judge the troll you get it. After all, it is you who wishful thinking and pursue certain goals.
                  Emelyanenko heavy and acts in its weight category as expected
                  1. Evil Tatar
                    0
                    17 January 2012 01: 26
                    You are like a stubborn, stupid woodpecker with the dream of becoming a nightingale ...
                    There is no need to speak with you, and there is no reason to.
                    Be well, son, do not get sick ...
  14. SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
    +7
    13 January 2012 13: 46
    The conversation is not going on, they belittle or belittle any of the parties, propaganda of a potential enemy of the Anglo-Americans, that is the problem. I watched one program, when ordinary Americans, mainly young people, were asked about World War II, they answered that Hitler and Stalin captured Europe, and we freed him. How do you like this alignment. After all, the Americans, unlike the Russians, are not reading people, they are "watching" people, what they rub on TV, they take at face value. And the heads of broadcasting corporations are far from being friends of Russia. From here, draw a conclusion!
    1. Svyatoslav
      +2
      13 January 2012 16: 52
      I also watched one video, but there the Americans (and not only the young ones) do not know at all who Hitler and Stalin are. If anyone is interested, the video is called "Why are Americans stupid."
    2. +2
      13 January 2012 23: 27
      SAMEDOV SULEYMAN, that's for sure, and another 45% of young Japanese people think that it was not the Americans who dropped the atomic bomb on them, but the USSR, you can fuck it up! am
  15. karnics
    +4
    13 January 2012 16: 40
    For idiots sucking the Zionist yuh, I will answer, if there was no landing in Normandy, the USSR had liberated all of Europe by the fall of 1945 ... Zionist scum like the Rothschilds and the like brought the Nazis to power in Germany, organized the Second World War, the purpose of which was to weaken the best peoples of Europe, Russian and German, as well as the creation of the state of Israel and the Zionist NATO bloc ... probably millions of Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Belarusians and all other nationalities died for this, and these huge losses of the Slavic and closely related Germanic people are in no way comparable to 600 thousand official losses of Jews, who promoted these "losses" through their media to 6 million.
  16. Wolkin
    0
    13 January 2012 16: 57
    Great article. I did not know many facts. Thanks to the author.
  17. +7
    13 January 2012 19: 06
    The Amers have the series Fighting Brotherhood ... about their landing, how they were prepared in the states for several years, then in England ... and the result was screwed up. How they courageously fucked German women and sent the loot ... and all this according to their memoirs.
    1. +6
      13 January 2012 19: 58
      I especially liked the phrase of the main character of the film: "We entrusted the Russians to take Berlin"
  18. Voldemar
    +1
    13 January 2012 20: 07
    Think for yourself, what's the point of having concrete fortifications on the shore?
    Was on the beach "Utah" there are concrete fortifications, and on the very shore. Most of it went into the sand. And I was also impressed by the huge fields with crosses, military graves. Whose they do not know, maybe the Germans, or maybe the allies.
  19. Scythian Turanian
    +4
    13 January 2012 22: 01
    I read posts full of negativity and sarcasm about D-Day (the landing of the allied troops in Normandy) .. And somehow I don't feel very well. Yes, times are changing, former allies, now 1947% enemies. The "Iron Curtain" as it began in the camp of the winners in XNUMX, and continues to this day, in an even more depraved form. Especially some Internet users in ever increasing numbers, lacking intelligence, but not lacking, a sense of superiority. In a sarcastic form, they try to outperform each other in lowering American and British soldiers in posts ...

    If these soldiers, the same guy, a former clerk, a white collar from Baton Rouge, who abandoned his office, the comfort of life (in the understanding of the Soviet people, then) and the papers to West Point would volunteer to prepare and send to Europe, responding to the call Theodore Roosevelt ... or a guy who grazed cattle on a ranch in Montana signed up as a volunteer, realizing that he might not return to his sunny State, or a worker, from the working-class districts of Detroit. An English soldier, a former miner from a mining town near Manchester, Then you would have heard this srach in the posts, and how everything is turned upside down, "smart guys" from the Internet ...

    That they are both American and English soldiers, in their hearts would have sent nah..y ... There are not those who write posts, but their heads of state, Theodore Roosevelt or Winston Churchill. And volunteers would not be enlisted in the army, to eradicate the Nazi fascist evil in Europe, as they then understood. On the one hand, the Russians would have done it themselves, and the whole USSR is solid Russians, there are no other nations. Russians everywhere cope themselves, they need neither help in the form of Lend-Lease, nor help in the form of a second front.

    But Roosevelt wanted to open a second front at the end of 42. After the successful operation "Torch" (torch), the landing of American troops in North Africa. When 600 ships, mobilized from the civilian fleet, dry cargo ships, steamers, tankers and landing ships, destroyers, and other escort ships, loaded with soldiers and equipment, sailed across the Atlantic Ocean and landed on the North African coast. The appearance of the Americans was decisive on this front. Fortune turned against the "desert fox" Romel, the commander of the German corps in Africa, and their Italian allies. And it ended with the fact that the allies defeated the fascists and landed on the land of "Duce" in Sicily.

    Winston Churchill, whom not only Stalin did not like, but Roosevelt (considered him a slippery type), was against this Idea, landing in Normadia, and he dragged on time as best he could. Only after meeting in Tehran in 1943, personally the three leaders of the nation. Stalin and Roosevelt in an ultimatum form, managed to squeeze Churchill and he agreed, in the face of direct facts ... he also agreed to provide a site and ports for the landing landing, but only in the year 44. Which was done. The landing finally took place in normality, such a landing operation on attracted marine vehicles and the number of landing troops is the largest in the history of the wars of mankind, and even surpassed the famous (for Americans) landing on Okinawa. The record is still unbreakable
    1. Setevik
      +3
      13 January 2012 22: 41
      Do you think it is better to agree that in Russia xyina was not a war, but the main actions were somewhere TAM? !!!!! ....
      This is how everything has been presented in recent 40 years.
    2. lesnik
      +3
      13 January 2012 23: 11
      Scythians, politicians come up with and win the war! Yes, our grandfathers fought, but why mix their exploits with mud ?! I read about Churchill, and you're right, he wanted to go to Russia on Amer’s shoulders, but this is now withheld! Therefore, all the negativity and sarcasm. The question is where do these FRIENDS who know well the Russian language come from?
      1. Scythian Turanian
        0
        13 January 2012 23: 16
        lesnik,

        I watched the film "One of our own among strangers, a stranger among our own". Clarifies a little.
        1. lesnik
          +1
          14 January 2012 01: 39
          I know he looked and he is one of my favorites, although Mikhalkov has only been unnerving lately. Recently I saw the 1996 US movie "The Long Kiss Goodnight". According to the scenario, CIA agents want to blow up a shopping center with a working staff of 5000 people in order to get additional funding from the Senate ... does it look like anything ?! and the movie in '96? The cynicism of politicians kills with its indifference.
          1. Scythian Turanian
            +2
            14 January 2012 10: 17
            lesnik,
            you correctly understood the meaning of the film "At home among strangers. A stranger among friends." the plot revolves around gold. Which local Bolsheviks decided to send by train to the center. the train on the way was robbed by the enemies of the revolution. What a struggle for this gold is unfolding on the scale of one region. They even managed to substitute an honest and loyal to the ideals of Bolshevism an employee of the Cheka or just a Chekist, various declassive elements (as they were called then) They say he leaked information about sending gold. And they believed, and their own comrades in arms were arrested ...

            Note that all there are Russians, except for one deceived and joined the class enemies, evil Tatar (the role was brilliantly played by the son of Arkady Raikin) But everyone has their own faith and their own interests.

            It is especially noticeable at the end of the film that everyone has their own concept of homeland and honor, and faith and attitude to their people-

            Remember the former officer of the tsarist army and the same Mikhailkov, who played the leader of the gang, who did not agree with the ideas of the Bolsheviks. when they got gold after the fight near the river, they fought among themselves. And they shot. And when the gold was finally in the hands of the Chekist, who also took part in squabbles for gold, and also managed to destroy the leader of the gang (who, by the way, threw his people loyal to him) and capture a Russian white officer along with gold, that he is this officer I said to the Chekist (I don't remember literally now, but I will convey the meaning: "Fool! What a fool! You have gold in your hands, but beyond the river it is abroad! Take gold! Cross over to the other side, and live peacefully, this gold will be enough for you for a comfortable life until the end of life and grandchildren will remain! and what will the Bolsheviks give you, why should they beggars have gold! "
      2. gor
        gor
        0
        15 January 2012 17: 01
        but where are the enemies? there are simply people who realize that the contribution to the victory over Germany was common. and apart from mixing American and English soldiers with mud, there are no other words here. and they are to blame for everything and in the same spirit
    3. J_silver
      -4
      14 January 2012 11: 03
      I read and almost burst into tears of emotion ...
      Your attitude. that the article is smelly, already expressed, but ...
      In fact, Theodore Roosevelt refers to a completely different historical era - but this is Kazakhs. sorry, Scythians, not taught ...
      Have you heard about the call? - You can send, but fraught ...
      1. Scythian Turanian
        0
        14 January 2012 11: 52
        J_silver,
        Well, the names, at the beginning, confused Franklin with his uncle Theodore. (I paid no attention to this later). And what do you think from this everything that is written is not so. And if you know about the call, then do you think others don’t? and you know that volunteers have always been and made up a large part of the US Army. The call for "universal military obligation" was in effect until 1975. And in Vietnam until the end of the 60s, many American volunteers went. Themselves signed up to send to Indochina .. Leaving the prestigious colleges from among the whites.

        I read your posts unevenly to Kazakhs, a cat or a goat scientist. About the Kyrgyz people there he also wrote that the Kazakhs were called that. Do you want to teach history to anyone? What's your name?
        1. J_silver
          -1
          14 January 2012 12: 52
          Funny you, as I look - thank you for science, if you don’t know what, and enough, because all the time you run into a scandal and get into a fight ...
  20. Setevik
    +10
    13 January 2012 22: 39
    Damn! Well, in my opinion, everyone understands that (we take Amerov) they entered the battle at a very convenient time — when the outcome of the war was clear (the Germans were kaput), they failed to bribe the political and military authorities of the Reich, financial juices from the USSR already squeezed ... It always seemed to me that everyone knows !!!!!!
    I just beg: do not say that the western front was created to save the lives of the eastern barbarians !!!! They shit on us! Here, honestly, I want to look in the eyes of a moron who thinks so !!!!!
    1. Scythian Turanian
      +1
      13 January 2012 23: 10
      Setevik,
      I didn’t understand what I wrote. This is your business. About people like you, I wrote in the beginning.

      read again and carefully. There are no words x..I was in the territory of the USSR war, especially since you are probably still young to know about that war (judging by how you are thrown to extremes), or such expressions-rescued the barbarian Slavs, these are your words. How you value yourself, you can see it is flawed (this can be seen from the overcompensation in your posts, considering them all for sale, with exclamation marks), you glorify yourself so imperceptibly, using the feedback method. And also for them amers, in advance thinking their thoughts replace their thoughts that "they shit on us." How do you feel about them yourself? just no politics. Is it okay?

      Keywords in the post: words-allies (in the past meanings) and American and English soldiers.


      As for your conclusions (or tricks) about those realities, the philistine judgment, especially not very smart. And already from the heights of modern days, when the psychology of people has changed in another direction. Time changes the life and psychology of people with a periodicity of 50 years
    2. +3
      13 January 2012 23: 28
      ))) The Amers generally did not want to "join the battle." Hitler himself declared war for them after Pearl Harbor, in order to show the Japanese his solidarity and convince them to oppose the USSR. If it were not for this political mistake of Hitler - no landing in Normandy and there was no trace of it.
      1. Anthrax
        +1
        13 January 2012 23: 41
        Even after the declaration of war, they could quietly sit out overseas.
        At first they helped with weapons, and in American planes and tanks they put simple working gifts for Soviet soldiers.
        They could sit out, but they went to war in faraway Europe and laid down 600.000 of their lives for us.
        So, would we go to help the United States if in some Argentina and Brazil fascia came to power and began to crush mainland America?
        And now we’re raising squabbles who put it more, but who made it and where.
        There was one enemy and we had one Victory at all.
        1. J_silver
          +2
          14 January 2012 10: 57
          And where did 600 thousand come from overseas?
          1. -1
            15 January 2012 18: 23
            600 thousand are losses along with the Pacific theater of operations
            1. J_silver
              0
              16 January 2012 19: 26
              In fact, only 405 thousand, plus about 3 thousand civilians ...
        2. gor
          gor
          +1
          15 January 2012 17: 42
          they showed their true faces full of anger and envy. minus such posts only you can. You can’t do anything yourself and hear good things about others. What’s wrong with the fact that American workers put gifts in? What are these disadvantages. Just like jackals or you not happy with the truth?
  21. Anthrax
    -7
    13 January 2012 23: 24
    Yes, it’s our constant question (or complex) that we won the war. And the allies were somewhere in the background,
    and that in the West they believe that it is they who play a decisive role
    The vast majority of Americans and Europeans do not think about it at all.
    For them, World War II is a very old event
    1. -1
      14 January 2012 12: 45
      Russian pseudo-patriots have an inferiority complex, Americans are much more interested in Midway or the War of Independence than Normandy. The reaction to the word "stalingrad" among ordinary Americans is thumbs up, they know and respect the battle.
      1. +1
        20 January 2012 16: 53
        Muda-K, RUSSIANS do not have FALSE patriots. They are so patched up so that there IS or NO patriots! It is in you burry there are false patriots, or a little people ....
  22. Setevik
    +3
    13 January 2012 23: 39
    Step by step Saint-Sei))):
    1. There is in the Russian language the concept of "exaggerating" to give one or another emotional coloring. From the height of "your age" one should know this. (I, as for Internet first-graders, will continue to put emoticons to suggest what emotions need to be expressed ...)
    2. You are right: I know the war only from books, textbooks and memoirs, as, apparently, you I did not participate in it ... smile
    3. Whom do I consider corrupt? Politicians and business oligarchs?! ..... Uhhh. Well, yes, so I think (especially oligarchs from another continent, they certainly do not care) What is the contradiction of logic? There are no complaints against the allied soldiers - the USSR (gold) was not shared with them smile
    4. The sign "!" in Russian, again, it is used for emotional coloring of the text. About his connection with the "inferiority" of the author, who put him to hear for the first time .... Finish reading the book "Psychology for Dummies", they only harm. ))))
    5. The attitude of America is very bad! Well, excuse me - this is projected onto the people as a whole. And what? Why is this bad? Are your thoughts clever? ....
    Oh, hell, could not resist and went down to your communication style ......
    And finally: I designated a negative attitude towards our side in 2WW for scribblers from the West. Do not classify yourself with them, you don’t pull on scribbler
    1. Scythian Turanian
      -3
      13 January 2012 23: 50
      Setevik,
      I am not fond of psychology from books. With the same success I can write myself for "dummies" and earn money on the circulation. You can count yourself to some if you proceed from this, depending on what ideology is today, or where the wind is blowing ...

      I understood you correctly, and I’ll leave these your twisting by points without comment. Talking to you further has no meaning
      1. Setevik
        +1
        14 January 2012 10: 54
        I agree, we have nothing to talk about.
    2. 0
      20 January 2012 17: 18
      H.Setevik, I dare to note the following: in principle, I think to whom there can be shading - to the State (its apparatus). Maybe those who landed and are not subject to criticism from our side ... But those who use this historical fact FOR INFORMATION WAR (as a striking factor) those SHOULD be full of it !! Recently I revised the PQ-17 Convoy anew and was amazed how the BRITS put the LIVES of the convoy participants under the dubious business. That is exactly what the "washerwoman" in the power of SUCH swinishness will not allow, and the "blue blood" will calmly lay down the city - another one for their experiments ...
      So sho GUYS do not tear each other forelocks! Let's move on to the exchange of knowledge ...
  23. +9
    14 January 2012 20: 20
    Each state has its own history ... we can giggle over Malaya Zemlya only because it belongs to Brezhnev's pen ... but D-Day, compared to Malaya Zemlya, is a walk in the park.
    1. 0
      20 January 2012 17: 20
      ... Thank you! ... winked
  24. grizzlir
    -1
    14 January 2012 21: 18
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    If there had been no D-day, the USSR would have ended the war in some 1947 year, having lost several million more soldiers. So many of the false patriots in this forum could simply not have been born.
    Guys, let's think sensibly, SWEET_SIXTEEN is right in principle, you just need to get into the shoes of those of our grandfathers who went into battle under Nazi fire. They all waited for the second front to open, everyone wanted to live, return home, kiss beloved women, raise children. Every day of the war claimed the lives of our soldiers, our fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers.
    1. +1
      15 January 2012 19: 40
      to get into their skin. For the fighting gave Amers in the Pacific Ocean, you can take off their cap at the beginning of the company of experience. Like ours, they had zero and even the commanders were not bothered by invention and quickness, and the enemy was a seasoned one. bully not to give not to take. But in Europe things were completely different. Our grandfathers called the carcass and sausages the second front, and as one famous person said, the amers are ready to rivet anything and would pay for it in any quantity.
  25. 0
    14 January 2012 22: 11
    FOR THE LAST TIME, A LARGE NUMBER OF WORKERS HISTORY FROM HISTORY APPEARED THOSE WHAT EVERYTHING HAPPENED IN THE USSR SEEN ONLY ONE NEGATIVE, PRAISING THAT WHICH IMMEDIATELY WRITER IN YOURSELF.
    EVERY TIME EVERYTHING FUNNY IS LIGHTED BY THE EVENTS OF THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR, ARTIFICIALLY OR PURPOSE
    The dominant role of the Soviet people in this war is coming down. Let this article
    ARTICLE CONTRIBUTES TO THE NEGATIVE ONE WHO WANT TO KILL A HEAD
    FUTURE OUR GENERATION. NOT KNOWLEDGE HISTORY OF YOUR COUNTRY
    LEADS TO DEGENERATION
    1. Taratut
      0
      15 August 2012 13: 15
      Quote: olegyurjewitch
      LET THIS ARTICLE BE CONSIDERED BY SOMETHING IT IS NOT CORRECT, BUT THIS
      ARTICLE CONTRIBUTES TO THE NEGATIVE ONE WHO WANT TO KILL A HEAD
      FUTURE OUR GENERATION. NOT KNOWLEDGE HISTORY OF YOUR COUNTRY
      LEADS TO DEGENERATION


      What do you mean by that? Let's talk nonsense, if only not for negativity?
      Why represent Americans worthless warriors? On one unsuccessful example?
  26. +3
    14 January 2012 22: 27
    Again the rabid dog was let loose from the chain. Yesterday it is BAD today SWEET SIXTEEN. They probably have shift work such a wicked bark.
  27. KASKAD
    0
    16 January 2012 14: 00
    And if you delve into the history, it will become clear that from the end of 42 years the Germans were informed about the landing in Normandy and it was thanks to this des landing that the Germans did not turn into a massacre and concentrated their forces elsewhere and waited for them to sail.
  28. mitya
    +2
    16 January 2012 14: 15
    Adult men like, and swear like boys in the sandbox. Who cares how he fought, a soldier, he is always a soldier, no matter which side he is on, he simply obeys orders, but by whose orders he goes to death, this is another topic. Therefore, he is just cannon fodder. Orders are given by generals, and the more mediocre general. the more of this meat itself. IMHO of course!
    1. gor
      gor
      -1
      16 January 2012 14: 27
      Mitya man and fully support
    2. 0
      20 January 2012 15: 24
      Son, before you set out this, try it on to yourself, you defended YOURS, YOUR homeland, and YOUR grandson is how you are to you- "and what's the difference between the Nazis and the USSR ??? They are all so poor ... I think your grandfather, if he fought, there would be a desire to roam you himself ...
  29. Kamow
    0
    18 January 2012 19: 40
    Very entertaining article. Interesting to read.
    But one "BUT" - few, very few links to real documents. So that one could not take the above acts on faith, but reasoned, with the names of documents or at least links like "But in that archive there is such and such paper" to come to the cublo of liberal-pendosolyubov and tell what's what :)
  30. 0
    19 January 2012 17: 44
    The worst punishment for German soldiers and officers was to be sent to the eastern front. This is essentially a death sentence.
    1. Taratut
      +1
      14 August 2012 19: 29
      Quote: cerber
      The worst punishment for German soldiers and officers was to be sent to the eastern front. This is essentially a death sentence.


      But for pilots, on the contrary. They lived on the Eastern Front for a long time, gaining a solid combat score. They didn’t live in air defense for a long time.
  31. 0
    20 January 2012 15: 21
    FROM MYSELF TO THE AUTHOR: Thank you! Keep it up!! And interesting and useful !!! Our descendants will thank you! (If there will be descendants) ...
  32. Taratut
    +1
    14 August 2012 19: 27
    Just amazing.
    To write about the greatest amphibious assault in history is so disrespectful and arrogant.
    Let me remind you that Hitler did not dare to naval landing. I did not dare to sail across the English Channel, although the British at that time were very weak (as Churchill wrote - if the landing took place, we would have to fight with beer bottles).
    The landing in Normandy became one of the main milestones in the Second World War and was enthusiastically received in the USSR. She greatly helped the success of Operation Bagration - after all, Hitler's reserves went to Normandy.
    Hitler was sure that if he could drown the landing, then he would deal with the Russians one on one. Hence the same Ardennes.
    The help of allies in general has always been belittled in the USSR. And this is the Lend-Lease, and the bombing of Germany. In the air defense had to keep the best pilots and fighters, a lot of guns, spend a huge amount of ammunition. All this would be very useful on the Eastern Front.
    I note that the losses of Germany on the Western Front in other months of 1944 were higher than on the Eastern. There the Germans were forced to keep 40% of all divisions. Agree, not a trifle.
    1. tut ya
      0
      14 August 2012 20: 59
      Hey, smart guy! Nobody was afraid of England anymore, after when they fled from France))) after the brilliant crossing of the "Magenot line", where the British were, all four years ??? defended the African colonies, fleeing from Rommel. go smoke bamboo and find out Churchill's plans after WWII am , for_dol_bali you statements (((our grandfathers died so that such nests as you wrote am
      and read about non-combat losses when landing in Normandy. In the Ardennes, the operation suffocated as well, until ours launched an unprepared attack on two fronts
      1. Taratut
        +1
        14 August 2012 21: 34
        Quote: tut ya
        Hey wise guy! No one was afraid of England anymore after they fled from France

        How incoherent ...
        Hitler was just afraid of England. He attacked the USSR to deprive England of options to continue the war. England he proposed peace after Dunkirk. And the failure of England put him in a difficult position.
        You also don't know about the Ardennes. Nobody went into any unprepared attack to "save" the allies. In the Ardennes, they handled themselves perfectly. Yes, Churchill wrote a letter to Stalin as a safety net. But the Germans realized that the offensive in the Ardennes failed before any Soviet offensive. Read something, do not spray it with saliva.
        By the way, Stalin also wrote tearful letters to Churchill. Say, September 1941. Help as much as you can, for Christ’s sake, otherwise the Kirdyk to the Soviet Union. Remember this letter?
        1. DIMS
          +1
          14 August 2012 21: 38
          And how did they help?
        2. tut ya
          0
          14 August 2012 21: 45
          May I know your location, literate ?! and I don’t understand Hitler’s thinking (from your point of view), is it easier to attack the USSR, like England is a dangerous opponent ??? pull up
        3. 0
          14 August 2012 22: 02
          I don’t remember such a letter, but I don’t exclude it. But nobody helped. We did it ourselves. Regarding Arden, "Read something, do not spray it with saliva." Without the offensive of the Red Army, the allies would have ... or rather, they would have. In general, you are a fair amount of cattle under the Russian flag. Where did you teach, or rather read about history?
          1. Taratut
            0
            15 August 2012 13: 53
            Quote: colonel
            I don’t remember such a letter, but I don’t exclude it. But nobody helped. We did it ourselves. Regarding Arden, "Read something, do not spray it with saliva." Without the offensive of the Red Army, the allies would have ... or rather, they would have. In general, you are a fair amount of cattle under the Russian flag. Where did you teach, or rather read about history?


            I mean yourself? What about lend-lease? Recall the statements of Mikoyan and Zhukov on the topic - it is still unknown how we ourselves could handle it?

            For Ardenne, compare the dates. When the German offensive in the Ardennes failed and when the Soviet one began.
        4. 0
          15 August 2012 00: 04
          And now, dear one, find or remember how much capital Hitler came to power ???? Who put on the knees of the then chancellor ??? After what trip did Hitler get money for his thugs ???? That's exactly the Anglo-American .... so who will Hitler attack ????
          1. Taratut
            0
            15 August 2012 13: 58
            Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
            And now, dear one, find or remember how much capital Hitler came to power ???? Who put on the knees of the then chancellor ??? After what trip did Hitler get money for his thugs ???? That's exactly the Anglo-American .... so who will Hitler attack ????

            Do not understand. Thanks to American investment, Germany has risen. Everything was relatively safe. The radicals - the Nazis and the Communists - received a few percent in the election. But after the beginning of the Great Depression, when the money ran out, then the Nazis came.
            Hitler expressed his goals clearly. Living space in the east. I picked up what I could. Flirted with Poland. But the Poles refused together with Hitler to fight against the USSR. Here Hitler conspired with Stalin.
            It was difficult to hope that England and France would not intervene at all. Hitler could not attack the USSR in any way while the French army stamped on the borders of the Ruhr. Isn't that easy?
    2. tut ya
      0
      14 August 2012 21: 15
      you answer, not minisui
  33. Taratut
    -1
    14 August 2012 22: 00
    Quote: DIMS
    And how did they help?

    Helped than they could.
    What help did you want? To England sent all its 20 divisions to the USSR under the leadership of Stalin?


    Quote: tut ya
    Can I find out your location, diploma?

    Volgograd. Have you heard?


    Quote: tut ya
    and I don’t understand Hitler’s thinking (from your point of view), is it easier to attack the USSR, like England is a dangerous opponent ???

    Read Hitler's letter to Mussolini on the eve of the attack on the USSR. Read Manstein's Lost Victories.
    And what could you offer Hitler? Amphibious assault? So he shook himself, did not dare.
    Send Wehrmacht to Iran? What can you offer him?
    1. DIMS
      0
      14 August 2012 22: 07
      And according to my information, they were waiting for the end. Suddenly the help falls into German hands. But for the money they "helped" willingly.
      1. Taratut
        0
        15 August 2012 09: 48
        Quote: DIMS
        And according to my information, they were waiting for the end. Suddenly the help falls into German hands. But for the money "helped" willingly


        It began with the fact that the United States gave us materials frozen in the United States under a moral embargo. The British - yes, first they sold. So what? During the war, to buy the necessary is a great success.

        Quote: tut ya
        And you, like, live in Volgograd ?! I have no words for you

        You, my friend, have problems with words in general. You have nothing to say. And scratching your fists in the internet will not work.
        Yes, I live very close to the T-34 tank, which is installed in front of the VGTZ.

        Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
        GUYS DON'T COME !!! Be people .. HAZARDOUS ALL BRAIN RINSING

        So no problem. I am ready to prove my case with facts.
    2. tut ya
      -1
      14 August 2012 22: 14
      And you, like, live in Volgograd ?! I have no words for you ... you tell me your last name and first name, so that I know more of your enemy
      1. 0
        15 August 2012 00: 06
        GUYS DON'T COME !!! Be people .. HAZARDOUS ALL BRAIN RINSING !!
        1. tut ya
          -1
          15 August 2012 00: 12
          no words to him, the fist itches (((
  34. Taratut
    0
    15 August 2012 12: 14
    What do we call help?
    Say, arms supplies to Republican Spain are help?
    1. 0
      17 August 2012 20: 01
      In general, there was help ... there was blood ... but due to their advantages spit our heroes ???

      As for help, I want to note that you should remember at least gunpowder for Katyusha shells, other things, because the country, in fact, could not give birth to sensible engines, everything was done in such a short time and with such efforts ...
  35. Taratut
    0
    16 August 2012 14: 03
    But here is how the landing in Normandy is described by historians.
    http://wordweb.ru/seawar/72.htm
    Dry, objective, and to the point.
    1. -1
      17 August 2012 19: 55
      Sweetheart !! In my opinion, your quote is as "scientific" as "Rezun's memoirs"! What kind of material ??? Who is the author??? (No signature) The assessments are purely subjective. No
      Quote: Taratut
      Dry, objective, and to the point.

      One PR! Well, in the spirit of their PRIARISM !!!

      No one reduces the heroism of THEIR fighters, BUT ...... compared to OURS - their heroism is a trifle ...
      but in general:
      I PLEASE DO NOT GROW UP PRAISE ODES AT THE BASIS OF HUMILIATION OF THE HEROES OF MY GRANDFATES !!!
      1. Taratut
        0
        18 August 2012 08: 28
        Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
        No one reduces the heroism of THEIR fighters, BUT ...... compared to OURS - their heroism is a trifle


        Strange phrase. Heroism is heroism.

        Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
        I PLEASE DO NOT GROW UP PRAISE ODES AT THE BASIS OF HUMILIATION OF HEROES OF MY GRANDFATERS

        Who humiliates your grandfathers did not understand. Let’s no tantrums. I repeat the question - the supply of arms from the USSR to Spain is help or not. Our propagandists assured that help, and fraternal. I will surprise many ignoramuses, but these deliveries were paid for in gold.
      2. Taratut
        0
        18 August 2012 16: 40
        Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
        Sweetheart !! In my opinion, your quote is as "scientific" as "Rezun's memoirs"!


        Rezun has no memoirs. And what does his book have to do with our conversation?
        Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
        Who is author??

        Admiral Nimitz. Have you heard?
        1. 0
          19 August 2012 21: 26
          OH! I was crying !! And when is it infa from military PIARas for the truth went ???? And by the way, where in the text of the link is that it is his text ???? In short, do not "hang me noodles" !!! I ask you to really motivate with DOCUMENTS and, preferably, with a low level of doubtfulness !! (Well, at least for the documents he signed !!!)

          And one more thing: not knowing the PR methods (read PROF. Lies) is not worth it, people who are more or less experienced in catching liars will come across ....
          1. Taratut
            +1
            20 August 2012 09: 01
            Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
            OH! I cried !! And when is this infa from military PR for the truth went ???? And by the way, where in the link text is what exactly is its text ???


            This is a chapter from a book. Open the table of contents and take a look.

            Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
            I ask you to really motivate with DOCUMENTS

            I'm ready. And what is SPECIFICALLY motivated? So far, for all my specific statements, I get a tantrum and a squeal about some spitting on someone’s grandfathers.
  36. Taratut
    +1
    18 August 2012 08: 33
    By the way, the author made a mistake. He wanted to quote the word "heroic" and thus, as it were, ironic. But quoting both words, he did not fulfill his intention.
    Accusing the landing force of cowardice is only because some supposedly paratroopers gave the enemy something stupid. How many of our compatriots have collaborated with the Germans? More than a million?
    There are facts of mediocre surrender among the Americans, and ours, and the French. But there are facts of courage and heroism. We note, incidentally, that the American surrender was much safer. Ours waged a war of destruction with the Germans, which only increased losses on both sides.
    1. 0
      20 August 2012 12: 47
      It is the PARCANTS who are heroes! But their organization of landing and support is LESSNESS !! And it’s absolutely UNSCIOUS to put our merits in battles in Stalengrad, for example, against the background of their supposedly "ideal, delightful, brilliant" landing !!! Watch TV: how the USSR fought - silence, and how brave the United States and somewhere out there the British - BRAVADA in all the fanfare.
    2. 0
      3 June 2019 19: 46
      USSR prisoner did not shoot! Do not lie.
  37. Taratut
    +1
    20 August 2012 13: 30
    Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
    it is absolutely UNFORCELING to put our merits in battles in Stalengrad against the background of their supposedly "ideal, delightful, brilliant" landing, for example


    And who compares the landing with Stalingrad? And for what?
    It is very difficult to organize a sea landing of such a scale. Hitler thought it was almost impossible.
    The allies succeeded. And a little later they carried out Operation Dragoon. There they took into account the mistakes and the landing in southern France was brilliant.
    The role of the USSR is enormous. The honor and glory of the Red Army. Of course, we didn’t learn how to fight because of the Germans until the end of the war, we took more in mass. So what? Everyone uses his trump cards. Why spit on each other?
    There is a book "Fatal decisions of the Wehrmacht".
    There and about Stalingrad, and about Normandy.
    http://lib.rus.ec/b/119101/read#t84
    1. 0
      22 August 2012 23: 11
      What do you mean "so what" ??? You go and will not suit if your wife suddenly starts praising her neighbor, but you do not even notice ??? AND ??? So it seems to come ??? And no matter how hard you tried to provide for the family, all the same, praise to the neighbor, but nothing about you. And in fact, they don't swear at you ... and they don't reproach you ...

      Here it is: netui scream to the whole world that there were no fights except in Normandy !! Can I skid, I'm sorry .... but there is such a topic as PR ... there are completely different laws and mechanisms .... so sho count ... maybe we won’t be chopped among ourselves ... bully
  38. Taratut
    +1
    23 August 2012 09: 32
    And who said that besides the battles in Normandy there was nothing?
    The Red Army grind the main forces of the Wehrmacht, who argues with this?
    But.
    It is not necessary to represent the USSR as an ideological fighter against Nazism. We with this Nazism perfectly had common things and didn’t feel sick.
    And when Europe was divided, and when the Friendship Treaty was signed, and when the Gestapo was extradited by German Communists. And when, under certain conditions, they agreed to become Hitler's allies, and when the British broke the blockade of Germany.
    But when the cock pecked us, we began to ask for help. Everyone owed to us - take it out and lay it down. The main burden of the war was borne by our people, it is a fact. But could we beat Germany one on one? This is a big question. The answer is rather negative.
  39. kov
    kov
    0
    30 September 2012 23: 25
    tank battles in Normandy

  40. -1
    20 May 2013 17: 46
    The article was written by some rabid American hater, the facts are deliberately distorted in order to create a picture of the complete insignificance of allies among ignorant readers.
    In short, having shoveled a pile of materials devoted to NDOs, I managed to find one single story about the fighting in the Omaha bridgehead, and I quote it literally. "Company" E ", landed in front of Colleville after a two-hour battle, captured a German bunker on the top of a hill and captured 21 man." Everything!
    An excellent demonstration of the author's level of competence. Apparently, such a textbook work as "D Day" by S. Ambrose remained outside of his search. In general, there are enough materials on landing on the network - from maps with fortifications to documentary films and photography. Not to mention the memories of the participants.
    1. Realist_Y
      -1
      21 November 2013 03: 27
      Well done allies! 3 million people landed against 400 thousand German soldiers, having bombed every meter before it and managed to firmly cope with it .. Imagine what would happen to them with the strength of the Germans as on the Kursk Bulge (1 million people on each side) with the appropriate equipment, and not just with machine guns and guns. Or like in Stalingrad, not to mention Moscow (2 million with all its might). If they had met the Germans in their full strength, the result would have been like France. I just really wanted to be the first to take Berlin and declare myself the winners in World War 2 - that’s the whole strategy.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. -1
    11 August 2013 19: 21
    The opening of the second front was naturally caused with fear that the Red Army with its corpus callosum would release a lot of things without them, the Anglo-Saxons.
    Overlord in itself as an operation is interesting in that it is precisely an amphibious operation in sea conditions, all the same a strait, and not some river. But in terms of scale, it only equals one single operation of the Red Army on a single sector of the front. The scale is not the same; now the importance of this event is too exaggerated. I remember reading from the British saying that when Hitler learned about the Allied landings in Normandy he only grinned, which means that we are already getting out of here. Hitler’s daily routine continued without change.
  43. qwerty123456789
    0
    21 July 2014 20: 19
    the author is a real gun * he and in general the Russians are the same fascists as the Germans at that time, the Russian people are above all and other garbage
  44. 0
    28 June 2017 09: 31
    And if the Germans had not been stopped near Moscow in 1941, no landing in Normandy would have taken place at all. England would lose the war, the States where the thread until 1947 fought with the Japanese-German forces and surrendered after the fall of New York. And the whole history of the world would go on a completely different path.
  45. +15
    4 November 2017 17: 08
    Salvation of Private Ryan
  46. 0
    3 June 2019 19: 42
    Santa Fe is a clear provocateur who skillfully perverts the facts and the course of events of the Second World War. All his posts are false and are aimed at downplaying the role of the USSR in the Great Victory and in world history. Juggling facts, perverting history - this is his main professional task.