Strange aspects of the tragedy in the Syrian sky

432
Not to study everything that concerned the fact of the attack and destruction of our aircraft in the airspace of Syria yesterday was simply unrealistic. Having looked and read all that is possible, I noticed a few really strange nuances.

Strange aspects of the tragedy in the Syrian sky


Some of the answers are not required, everything is clear. But the part remained under the question mark.

It is absolutely clear that no one expected such actions from the Turkish Air Force. The protocol with the United States was signed, the United States signed for all representatives of the antiterrorist coalition, including Turkey. And no one expected such actions, which except as traitorous, can be called.

However, military actions are taking place on the territory of the SAR. Therefore, the following questions arise.

1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not in a pair, without a fighter cover? Perhaps he was in the "free hunting". But this does not remove a certain feeling of an unserious attitude to what is happening.

2. Why were the Mi-8 helicopters sent to the square after the crash? After all, it was known that the area is controlled by the Turkoman gangs. As a result - the death of our fighter and the loss of one helicopter. If, instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24, the situation would be completely different.

3. It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits came as a surprise. What is it, excessive trust in information from "partners" or a flaw in intelligence?

4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. No comments at all. The pilots were virtually unarmed against any attack.

It seems that our command was not ready for both this situation and its consequences. I agree that no one expected this sort of vileness from the Turks. And the attack of the Turkish fighter was a nightmarish and tragic surprise.

However, there is always the likelihood of firing aircraft and helicopters from MANPADS and large-caliber machine guns. And no one canceled accidents. Rescue system in areas under the control of terrorists, should be.

And a few questions regarding the actions of the Turkish side.

It seems to me a strange meeting of one Su-24 and one F-16. A lone fighter was raised to intercept a lone bomber? I do not believe in chance at all.

Apparently, the Turkish side planned something similar in advance. I monitored all the ups of our planes on my radars, finding out whether the opportunity for such an action would be provided.

There is no doubt that if at least one Su-4 were in the air within 5-30 radius, then the Turks would not even twitch to intercept, all the more so if they left their airspace. Even together, since the “thirtieth” “sixteenth” is clearly too tough.

So planning is in place.

Moreover, there are generally accepted rules of action in such situations. In case of violation of the airspace, the following algorithm of actions was adopted.

1. Notify the violator on the radio frequency. It usually ends there. I doubt that was done. Especially, 10 warnings for 5 minutes.

2. Warning fire. Usually done with the help of a gun at an angle to the course of following the offender.

3. Forcing to land. It is accomplished with the help of maneuvers that our “air” readers will explain better than me.

4. And only when all the preceding paragraphs have failed, and provided that the actions of the offender are clearly a threat, the fire is fired.

We have what we have. The Turkish fighter jumped out of its airspace and launched a rocket on our plane.

These facts indicate only one thing: we are dealing with a pre-planned (and well) planned operation. All that the Turks can offer as an argument will look like an unsubstantiated babble. They wanted to shoot down our plane, they shot it down.

Yes, the organization of our VKS combat sorties helped them in this. And helped considerably. But this does not remove any responsibility from the perpetrators. Deserved punishment must be borne by everyone: the real killers (Erdogan and the oil merchant's son), and unwitting accomplices (responsible for developing action plans for our pilots).

A thousand tankers with oil from ISIS for Erdogan Jr. - too little payment for the death of our soldiers. Retribution must overtake everyone - both those who sanctioned the murder (otherwise I can’t characterize what happened) and the one who pressed the start button.

It's a shame that the guys did not know that they would be killed. It’s a shame that they didn’t know that smelly bearded monkeys, who could only press the AK trigger and yell “Allah Akbar”, would shoot at them like targets.

But it will be even more offensive if this tragic lesson is not learned.

The Ministry of Defense announced the termination of all military contacts with Turkey.
The Ministry of Defense announced the strengthening of the air defense of the region with the help of the Forts of the cruiser "Moscow".

The Defense Ministry announced that all targets representing a potential threat in the air will be destroyed.

I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.
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  1. +1
    25 November 2015 11: 40
    I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.

    And a statement about the “n” number of downed planes that illegally invaded Syrian airspace. Syria is our ally and we have the right to defend it, just as NATO allies are ready to defend each other, especially since the official authorities of this country asked us to do so.
  2. 0
    25 November 2015 11: 43
    The Russian Ministry of Defense warned! Now we need to shoot down everything that sticks its nose out from beyond the Turkish border.
  3. +1
    25 November 2015 11: 54
    Conclusions from history are simple
    1 Gave carte blanche to China. Now the Chinese are shooting down all enemy planes near their islands.
    2 Give the Kurds the opportunity (at some point) to build their own state, at least in the territories occupied by Turkey
  4. 0
    25 November 2015 11: 57
    That's right. This is how it should be done. I think that is already being done.
  5. +1
    25 November 2015 12: 02
    I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.

    Now, if Russia ALWAYS did this, then there would be much more respect for Russia in the world.
  6. +2
    25 November 2015 12: 03
    A dozen oil tankers exploded on the crowded streets of a large city, streams of burning oil will quickly cool the heads of the hot-tempered Turkish authorities.

    Do you think that smuggled liquids move briskly along the streets of crowded cities? Most likely they are already drained near the border. And there is nowhere for “pioneer heroes” to come from. The territory is under the control of the Turkomans, who have lived there for centuries. You can see the stranger a mile away. There are more effective and simpler ways.
  7. 0
    25 November 2015 12: 07
    Quote: Vita VKO
    , the destruction of the ISIS oil business by the VSK of the Russian Federation, which, according to media reports, is directly connected with Erdogan’s son, simply could not go unanswered.

    Before this, the Americans allegedly destroyed 500 trucks with oil. And the Turks did not shoot down a single American plane. Why is there no answer?
  8. 0
    25 November 2015 12: 07
    4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system.
    if this is so, then this is a matter of military counterintelligence
  9. +2
    25 November 2015 12: 07
    According to the Syrians, there was nothing alive left in these mountains last night. Ours bombed with everything we had.
    MI-24 and MI-8 with a search group were sent to search. They were flying in a twin.
  10. +2
    25 November 2015 12: 08
    During the chaos in Syria, the Turks quietly grabbed the lands of Syria for themselves, in this and other areas of the north. No one writes about this. Why? But for us this is also proof of the meanness of the Turks. Shall we remain silent again?
  11. +1
    25 November 2015 12: 11
    Dear Roman! You really deserve respect for the humanitarian work you carried out in Donbass. By the way, I also contributed according to my financial capabilities to the common treasury of your noble cause. But now I cannot agree with you on everything. Especially in assessing the actions of our military, equipping a downed plane, etc. Because your article was written based on rumors, speculation and videos of unknown origin on the Internet. It is my deep conviction that the military who made the decisions to strike at ISIS and conduct the rescue operation have a hundred times more and, most importantly, reliable information. And the analysis of everything that happened will be carried out, rest assured, as it should be. Do not prevent our soldiers from fighting with such articles, do not upset the souls of our citizens here in Russia. This article only creates panic.
    1. 0
      27 November 2015 21: 57
      Quote: okroshka79
      This article only creates panic.

      If there are questions, they should be answered. The article made it possible to obtain them. Roman - well done! And the military cannot be trusted. They say something that can no longer be hidden.
  12. 0
    25 November 2015 12: 14
    Quote: Uzzy
    2. “We need to equip the rebels with MANPADS as we did in Afghanistan” (something like this) - Biden.
    Draw conclusions!

    It was fucking McCain
  13. -1
    25 November 2015 12: 23
    the life of our pilot is much more expensive than the whole of Türkiye and its population. The whole country mourns. I hope there will be volunteers who will organize a fundraiser for a monument to the deceased pilot. you won't get that from local authorities
  14. +7
    25 November 2015 12: 24
    It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system.
    if this is so, then this is a matter of military counterintelligence

    SPO "Bereza" has long been included in the standard equipment of the SU-24 and not only it. Reacts to aircraft irradiation by ground, airborne radars and radar-guided missiles.
    In this case, most likely, the F-16 was aimed at drying by a ground-based radar, which came into visual contact and fired a Sunwinder (or a couple, most likely) at the target. Of course, he didn’t turn on his radar, but why? The Soundwinder has an infrared homing head, that is, it does not emit anything, it reacts to the heat of the engines and hits there. And the ground radars of the Turks are always on, and accordingly, Bereza always notifies. It does not react to the very fact of a missile launch. To detect missile launches, there is other equipment, on the SU-34 it is standard, on the SU-24 it is a hefty and heavy hanging container. And even then it’s not all-perspective.
    Did I explain it popularly? I tried, I don’t like to sprinkle in abbreviations and technology codes.
    And yes, counterintelligence does not do this, believe me.
    1. +2
      25 November 2015 12: 58
      You forget or don't know about Mac. The Su-24M has a system for detecting missile launches using a thermal trace
  15. +1
    25 November 2015 12: 26
    The article is a definite plus. I myself wanted to ask these same questions to our multi-star fuckers. They really like winning reports. Two months of work without practical opposition, like at the training ground, we relaxed. The SU-24M feels right at home, does it have air defense, or what? Were the rescuers on a picnic? As a result: two dead, eternal memory to them, lost SU-24 and MI-8. The Ottomans grin, the spirits are happy. Judging by the video footage, they prepared in advance (questions for intelligence). And now all that remains is to turn the mountainous terrain there into a flat one, continue to burn fuel tankers and, well, I really want to drive a couple of Ottomans into the ground.
    1. +1
      25 November 2015 12: 55
      Yes, I agree with you that there are many questions. But you must agree that Russia trusted Turkey, but perhaps trusted it very much.
      The question is also that almost no one at the top listens to analysts, does not take into account the opinions of different people - as a result, they got a knife in the back. After all, by and large, it’s easy to find the culprits here, but you know what they say: Revenge is a dish that should be served cold.
  16. +2
    25 November 2015 12: 40
    The first thing that came to mind as soon as I heard about our plane being shot down was: “Why the hell, with such air defense, do we launch bombers without cover?” After all, it was clear that once earlier, back in October, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu stated that, despite the fact that Russia “is a friend” of Turkey, “the rules of the use of force are quite clear, regardless of who violates our airspace.” , then the Turks will simply not allow our planes to fly near their border and drill for oil from the son of the President of Turkey. And that sooner or later such a provocation against our aviation will be carried out. After this warning, the Turks needed to protect our pilots. This is truly “Dizziness with Success”! God grant that these measures are taken now, fortunately the technology is available.
  17. +1
    25 November 2015 12: 45
    But they said that there was an information bubble over the territory, provided by our electronic warfare equipment. True, there are many mistakes on our part, but there is no mercy for the Turks!
    1. 0
      27 November 2015 22: 04
      Quote: Vasyav
      But they said that there was an information bubble over the territory, provided by our electronic warfare equipment

      Yes, there were many such phrases. It turns out that you can’t trust them. To whom exactly? It would be good to find out the positions. We don't need LIES.
  18. +1
    25 November 2015 12: 51
    First, I would like to express my condolences to the families and friends of those Soldiers of the Fatherland who died as a result of a vile stab in the back. And to tell their parents that they raised real men and defenders of their Motherland. The Kingdom of Heaven and Eternal Memory to the fallen Soldiers and Defenders of the Fatherland.
    In this tragedy, it is necessary to draw all possible and impossible conclusions and take the same measures to avoid further tragedies.
    But most importantly, Russia really needs pays attention now to your own people so to speak to all allies
    .
  19. +1
    25 November 2015 12: 56
    I glanced at the INOpress. Here is what they write: “Several Russian planes were spotted in the skies over Turkey. They were flying from Russia to Syria to fight ISIS. After a dozen warnings, Turkish planes took to the skies. Russia confirmed that the downed plane was flying from Russia to Syria to fight ISIS"
    That's it... Turn out the lights.
    Do they ever write anything objectively?
    The same Miror. I always considered it more or less reliable. Now I want to spit.
  20. 0
    25 November 2015 13: 13
    I completely agree: the East is a delicate matter, but it is clear that they understand and respect only strength and always perceive a proposal for dialogue as weakness.
  21. 0
    25 November 2015 13: 22
    “They didn’t believe in meanness on the part of the Turks,” Peter the Great said, “... don’t trust a woman, don’t trust a Turk, don’t trust a drinker.” By the way, in October a Turkish military helicopter flew into Armenia, but for some reason it wasn’t shot down. I wonder what the reaction would have been from the West?
  22. +1
    25 November 2015 13: 23
    The only mistake, in my opinion, is to consider Turkey a friendly state; a Turk remains an insidious and bloodthirsty Turk, despite all the external attributes of secularism and civilization. There is only one conclusion: it is painful and noticeable to hit on all fronts: diplomatic, military, economic. And first, dig the so-called into the ground. Turkaman tribes.
  23. +2
    25 November 2015 13: 26
    The question is stupid, like my avatar, but what will happen if ISIS training bases in Turkey are bombed as an “accomplice of terrorists” with cruise missiles? Consequences?
  24. +1
    25 November 2015 13: 29
    1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not in pairs, without covering fighters?....
    ---------------------------------
    Taking into account the fact that the terrorists do not have planes, air battles were not expected. As a result, there was no need for extra expenses. Let's not forget that this is an expensive pleasure. And it’s one thing if each bombing is one flight, another if it’s two or more.


    2. Why were the Mi-8 helicopters sent to the square after the crash? After all, it was known that the area is controlled by the Turkoman gangs. As a result - the death of our fighter and the loss of one helicopter. If, instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24, the situation would be completely different.
    ---------------------------------
    Is the Mi-24 invulnerable? He could just as easily have been under fire.


    3. It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits came as a surprise. What is it, excessive trust in information from "partners" or a flaw in intelligence?
    ---------------------------------
    Why did you think it was a surprise?


    4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. No comments at all. The pilots were virtually unarmed against any attack.
    ---------------------------------
    see point 1.
  25. +1
    25 November 2015 13: 44
    Now let’s look at the big picture why the President did not go to ASEAN, here is the answer, they were waiting for a provocation and information that something would happen and that’s why the GDP did not go, such coincidences simply cannot happen, the stakes in the game are too high. Our military screwed up, in general, our fighters should constantly be hovering over the Syrian sky in zones, where they were there were none, what kind of smart guy sent Mi-8 helicopters to the rescue, if YOU are sending them, cover with Su-25s and fighters, so that these creatures they couldn't raise their heads. Now I think so, this entire strip between the Syrian troops and the Turkish border where this happened needs to be plowed up not with KABA 250, but with 1500 and 3000 caliber bombs, and it’s worth testing that vacuum weighing 9500 kg, and throwing a couple there so that the Syrian army would just go there she walked with her head held high so that the Syrian “Turkish brothers” would remember well our deceased pilot, HONOR AND GLORY TO HIM!!!
  26. 0
    25 November 2015 13: 46
    The most adequate answer (in my opinion):
    1. Suppress any air defense in the area
    2. Destroy all bandit formations in this area (by carpet bombing, so that nothing alive remains at all)
    3. Arrange several ACTS of retaliation:
    - Blowing up gas pipelines to and from Turkey
    - destruction of several Turkish aircraft
    - destruction of several ships of the Turkish Navy
    - destruction/sabotage on Turkish railways.

    In World War II, the Germans killed 100 people per soldier. We need to answer 10000 for one person and another 20000 for the destruction of equipment.

    And don’t say that I’m bloodthirsty, just like that! By snot and as hard as possible!
    1. +1
      25 November 2015 13: 59
      good The fewer Turks, the cleaner the air!!!
      1. +1
        25 November 2015 17: 49
        Ara, Vontses!
        Russian himself. I don’t know how to spell it correctly, but I’m always ready to say “Hello” to my brother from Armenia!
  27. 0
    25 November 2015 13: 55
    It's time to learn lessons from what happened. The Turks and Americans warned that this would happen. After the strikes on Erdogan’s oil infrastructure, the only place where the killing of pilots can be disguised as “self-defense” is the notorious ledge. It doesn’t matter whether the plane enters Turkish and NATO airspace or not: they have already created the corresponding information picture. To avoid relapses, it is necessary to take control of this area as a matter of priority and deploy military air defense systems in it.
    It is noteworthy that in fact the United States, NATO and Turkey already consider Syria a “de facto” non-existent state, whose airspace they are allowed to violate. NATO, France and the United States should be warned about the possible consequences of violating Syrian airspace and record such violations: once, twice...
    Let the planes of the French allies fly through Turkey.
    1. +1
      25 November 2015 14: 22
      Let me make some clarification to your lesson learned.
      We must think ahead! It’s not home, after all!
      And now, as Lenin (Ulyanov) said: “We will respond to white terror with red terror!”
      Or as the Bible says: “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!”
  28. 0
    25 November 2015 14: 13
    You can’t trust the infidels! Our ancestors said so.
    1. +1
      25 November 2015 14: 31
      For all 100% I agree!
      My great-grandfather said, my grandfather said, my father: “Don’t believe the tears/words of a Turk!”
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. 0
    25 November 2015 14: 53
    I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.
    to the ground. To resolve the issue with “tent cities” once and for all
  31. Bor
    0
    25 November 2015 15: 15
    The Turks, of course, committed a great meanness by committing such a crime, but this was exactly what could be expected from them and therefore should have thought through how to prevent it. Well, how does this happen? It’s a pity to the point of tears...
  32. +7
    25 November 2015 15: 20
    Firing of parachutists during their descent to the ground is prohibited by the additional protocol of 1977. for the Geneva conventions. He could only be captured after landing. Any American statements about the right of Turkmen tribes to self-defense are barbaric. Convention protection does not apply only to airborne troops
  33. 0
    25 November 2015 15: 29
    soldier Strange aspects of saving the navigator of the Su-24 .... Why did the marines of the Russian Armed Forces flee to his rescue? Is this a function of the marine corps? Mi-8 is a good helicopter, but not for the same operations. I think it is worth making the right conclusions from the events that have taken place and creating a special unit to rescue the crews of aircraft / helicopters, as well as equipping this unit with super-expensive and super-modern weapons and equipment. If necessary, instruct scientists / designers to develop special samples of such equipment.
  34. win
    +2
    25 November 2015 16: 30
    The Turkish military deployed additional troops to the Syrian border from the west of the country 20 tanks, Anadolu Agency reports
  35. +1
    25 November 2015 16: 35
    I would like to thank all our guys who worked all night at great risk.
    Sergei Shoigu, Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation
  36. 0
    25 November 2015 16: 38
    By the way, I can’t say anything about Anna News journalists, neither good nor bad. But how could they be in the right place at the right time? In addition, also to film everything that happens in excellent quality???
    or have they been sitting there since September 30th and waiting in ambush in the hope of filming??? I have nothing against evidence against the Turks, but you need to be really objective...
    here's an exclusive for today; Anna News video:
    1. +1
      25 November 2015 18: 13
      they have been in those places for a long time, watch their previous videos from Syria on their channel, there is no conspiracy theory on our part here
  37. +3
    25 November 2015 16: 40
    Russian ships in the Mediterranean Sea attacked the area of ​​Latakia province, over which the Turkish Air Force had shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber the day before. The pilots who ejected came under fire from the rebels.
  38. +2
    25 November 2015 16: 44
    Well, by God, guys, the same questions arose. And when they told about the Mi-8, I was completely upset. Is our command on training exercises? The Mi-24 is also not a panacea in such a situation, but do Kamovs and hunters exist only for parades? And what the hell are the Marines in the mountainous and wooded area. They forgot about Chechnya, I’m generally silent about Afghanistan.
  39. +2
    25 November 2015 16: 49
    However, there is always the likelihood of firing aircraft and helicopters from MANPADS and large-caliber machine guns. And no one canceled accidents. Rescue system in areas under the control of terrorists, should be.


    Six km is a sufficient height from a MANPADS, and even more so from a machine gun!!! This is just murder!!! Cynical and daring! It cannot be left without an answer.
    1. +2
      25 November 2015 17: 16
      Murder of course! Only, we do not bear the same responsibility as the President. I would, yes, a couple of SS missiles, that is, “Satan”, and that’s all. But, let's return to children, old people and women... Russia, unlike the Civilized World, usually complies with all treaties, and also treats the civilian population humanely. So we just have to wait. I don’t know who, how, but the President’s words gave me goosebumps. Something, somehow, he very calmly said that “there will be an answer.” I'm waiting, I hope.
  40. +1
    25 November 2015 16: 49
    “He also said that in light of yesterday’s incident with the attack by the Turkish Air Force on a Russian plane, the situation with the illegal oil trade, in general with the illegal oil industry that ISIS created on its territory, appears in a new light,” Lavrov said.

    The head of the Russian Foreign Ministry also noted that the incident occurred “after targeted and very effective strikes by our aircraft began to be carried out on these fuel tankers, and on these oil mines in general.”
  41. +1
    25 November 2015 16: 52
    I don’t really care about the whole of Turkey, I would turn it into a lifeless desert so that it would be disgraceful. My fellow countryman died there. Besides, I owe a debt to these imperialists for Chechnya, and it wouldn’t hurt to ask about the Armenians.
  42. +1
    25 November 2015 17: 04
    Russia has no friends in the world. You should expect mean things from any country, and therefore you need to always be on your guard.
  43. 0
    25 November 2015 17: 04
    Well, will Erdogan punch you in the face or what?
  44. +2
    25 November 2015 17: 18
    “We will remember you guys... The pilot, the commander of the “drying ship” that was shot down by the Turks, lieutenant colonel - Oleg Peshkov. The marine who went to the rescue of the downed crew, the sailor - Alexander Pozynich.
    “Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.” In. 15:13"
    You have gone to heaven..."

    Message from "Russian Spring": "Servicemen of the Russian Federation who died during the counter-terrorist operation in Syria - the pilot of the downed Su-24 Oleg Peshkov and a participant in the rescue search operation - marine Alexander Pozynich. For heroism, courage and bravery shown in the performance of military duty , Lieutenant Colonel Oleg Peshkov was awarded the title of Hero of Russia (posthumously). The officer served in the Lipetsk air detachment. For courage, bravery and dedication shown in the performance of military duty, Captain of the Russian Aerospace Forces Konstantin Murakhtin and Marine sailor Alexander Pozynich (posthumously) were awarded the Order of Courage. The navigator of the Russian Su-24 bomber shot down by the Turks, Captain Konstantin Murakhtin, was recognized last year as the winner of the international competition for aerial training of flight crews “Aviadarts 2014.” Then the Su-24 M crew, consisting of pilot Stanislav Gasanov and navigator Konstantin Murakhtin from the Lipetsk aviation center, was recognized the best and received first place in the category “front-line bombers”, or “Bomber aviation” at these competitions with the participation of pilots from Russia, China and Belarus. For this victory, the Russian pilots were awarded a Land Rover Freelander SUV. Murakhtin graduated from the Chelyabinsk Flight School and served at the Lipetsk Aviation Center. Eternal Glory to the fallen Heroes of Russia and the Kingdom of Heaven!
  45. 0
    25 November 2015 17: 47
    I think that there was no way we could do it here without our “sworn friends” from the USA.
  46. +1
    25 November 2015 17: 56
    “According to the agency, Russian ships in the Mediterranean Sea attacked the area of ​​Latakia province, over which the Turkish Air Force shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber the day before.” This is the message of "Russian Spring". I hope the blows are not in vain.
  47. 0
    25 November 2015 18: 09
    “Of course, we do not want to artificially create for Turkish manufacturers and exporters... we do not want to create unnecessary problems for our citizens, for our companies that interact with the Turkish side,” Minister Lavrov added.

    Here is your first "answer".
    In general, this is not just a provocation - now, if Russia calms down, our planes can be shot down everywhere: missile carriers and bombers, and submarines can be sunk anywhere. The excuse will be the same: they were in our space!
    The Chinese did not dare to shoot down the amers, even though they were in “their space.” And now you can shoot down ours!
    The main thing is that trade turnover, according to Lavrov, does not decrease.
    The iPod said even more harshly, which is not typical for him.
  48. 0
    25 November 2015 18: 19
    In reality, Russia will not do anything other than loud statements, especially at the state level. Because they are very tied up economically. Gas to Turkey brings foreign currency. Food supplies from Turkey solve the food problem. Yes, tourists go to Turkey. because in Russia there are too few warm seas. And the Turks are building facilities for the 2018 FIFA World Cup. And in Turkey, it turns out that Sberbank bought up some banks 100%, and Lukoil bought gas stations. And will all the oligarchs lose this? Yes, they will sacrifice twenty planes for this. What about the Turkish stream, which is clearly unprofitable? But the desire to annoy Ukraine, even at a loss, will overpower the economy.
  49. 0
    25 November 2015 18: 56
    But it seems to me that the SU-24 saw something there, some kind of gangway, the transfer of chemical weapons and the like. This was all covered from the air too. so he was shot down.
  50. +1
    25 November 2015 19: 18
    Never mind, someone else downvoted the article. Did the enemies crawl out of the trenches? am
  51. +2
    25 November 2015 19: 27
    I completely agree with the author. This is a carefully planned action. Here - How much does it cost to shoot down a plane (http://pravosudija.net/article/srochnaya-novost-skolko-stoit-sbit-samolet) version that has a right to exist.
  52. +3
    25 November 2015 19: 47
    I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.

    I think that this is the key phrase as an expression of a common point of view. The attack aircraft were definitely on guard and fired a missile from an ambush at the back.
  53. +3
    25 November 2015 20: 17
    Dear Sirs! There is no need to grieve that we allegedly unceremoniously humiliated Turkey and carry other nonsense. Turkey has never been among the countries sympathetic to Russia, and even more so has never been Russia’s ally and partner. During the Great Patriotic War, the Turks clearly and immediately supported Hitler's Germany. Turkey was afraid to openly enter the war, since the Red Army was stationed in Iran and was ready to occupy Turkey. I also want to remind you that for hundreds of years, since the Russian-Turkish War, the Turks have not given up attempts to shake up the situation in the Caucasus and annex the “original Turkish lands." What friends? What allies? Bullshit. Only a Turk can be an enemy in relation to Russia. The destruction of our plane was a clearly planned action, and the planning of the action was carried out by NATO headquarters with the full support and full approval of the United States. Dear Sirs! None of our “partners” need a strong Russia. We are like a bone in the throat for all these gentlemen. All without exception. Russia and Russians are superfluous at the celebration of life of the enlightened West. And you all already know what to do with them all. And no mercy. Evil must be destroyed at the roots.
  54. +1
    25 November 2015 20: 17
    “Strange aspects” are not in the skies of Syria, everything is natural there... The weak are being strangled. All the strangest things happen at home, where traitors are honored and expensive palaces are erected for them.
  55. 0
    25 November 2015 20: 24
    "I'd like to hear another statement." Ours are already working, here it is. And not just one, I read that EVERYTHING in this area was razed, along with those Turkmen assistants who shot at the pilots. http://cont.ws/post/153399
  56. 0
    25 November 2015 20: 29
    Их наказали http://3mv.ru/publ/vks_rf_zachistili_rajon_gde_byl_sbit_su_24/1-1-0-50879
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY-aFdqHdyU&feature=youtu.be
  57. 0
    25 November 2015 21: 04
    And here’s another. Balm for our wounded nerves...http://cont.ws/post/153006
  58. +1
    25 November 2015 21: 13
    The author wrote everything clearly, put what I was thinking about into pieces, thank you!
  59. 0
    25 November 2015 22: 17
    The action is planned, don’t go to grandma, but where is all this and, most importantly, whose hidden background?! Maybe the paddling pool’s visit to the GDP will clarify the essence of the situation and the urgency of the moment. I note that this is happening against the backdrop of the visit of the GDP to Iran and Holland to the USA. A pattern, however .
  60. 0
    25 November 2015 22: 19
    The author asked very pressing questions; I would like to hear answers to them from the Russian Defense Ministry.
  61. +3
    25 November 2015 22: 23
    The combat mission was carried out alone because the terriks do not have air defense capable of shooting down more than 50000, and the presence of fighters is not enough for each escort (there are 6 of them), they are intended for more important tasks, such as escorting strategists, reading frequencies .... guys on the ground and so they are sewn up, the sorties are only increasing. The warning system is always working, the missile was with a thermal seeker, you can’t feel it in any way, only thermal traps save you, and the time and distance were minimal. The Mi-8 is a transport helicopter, with a rescue team on board, where they were seated in the MI-24, especially since the video clearly shows that there was a crocodile nearby. The Turks were already waiting in the air for our board - this is a typical provocation agreed with us, only orchestrated by Erdogan, it didn’t work out very well, unfortunately the crew commander was shot by bearded Turkoman dogs. I’m very glad that at least Kostya is alive. And most importantly, don’t la-la that no one was ready and nothing worked, everything worked normally.
  62. 0
    25 November 2015 22: 44
    Article plus, I have the same questions.
  63. +2
    25 November 2015 23: 16
    Commenting on this wonderful scribble about the unpreparedness of our military, he jumped from 0 in altitude, over 5000. After reading about some Khibiny, what are you writing about, and most importantly, they post some photos, sucked from the fingers, HAVING HAPPENED on the Su-24, the Khibiny did not hang themselves, they are not even provided for him. It is practically impossible to escape from a missile with a thermal head, and Khibiny is a complex of electronic warfare and electronic warfare. The Su-24 has a standard warning system against exposure to MAK radar weapons. For 1,5 years now I’ve been fed up with stupid reports about how a Su-24 MR with Khibiny flew around the American KUK ship near Crimea, well, there have never been such stations on such aircraft, they are not provided for these aircraft, they were recently released for new fighters and fighter-bombers (whichever you look for yourself), MR flew to write off AEGNIS frequencies, and scared the sweaty blacks on board, and they extinguished the ship from the shore with something like a “beauty”. Therefore, once again, YOU DON’T KNOW, DON’T WRITE absurd nonsense about someone’s unpreparedness, you think that everything is so perfect, unfortunately, it’s not possible to predict everything, the Turks knew what to shoot down, they would sniff gunpowder there. I talked to Kostya before the business trip - I flew there without much enthusiasm, I’m once again glad for him that he’s alive. By the way, who wants to read about the true plans of the Americans in Crimea link: http://ukraina.ru/analytics/20151109/1014777008.html
    1. +1
      26 November 2015 00: 02
      I feel sorry for Oleg. In loving memory
    2. +1
      26 November 2015 10: 10
      MAC does not warn about radiation exposure, BIRCH does. Why she didn’t see the launch is a question. Most likely, the launch was carried out from the lower hemisphere from such an angle that the MAC could not see. According to the navigator, they did not suspect anything. This means that the Su-24's F-16 radar was not captured, the guidance was from the ground for secrecy, the missile was most likely launched from a range of 8-12 km, there was little time to respond, even if they had detected the fact of the launch. Traps against the matrix seeker of the latest Sidewinder modifications are useless. The F-16's approach to the target at low altitude is confirmed by the fact that most likely it was not visible by the airbase's radar systems, otherwise they would have warned of the danger from the ground. Lots of unknowns and questions
  64. Mih
    -2
    25 November 2015 23: 36
    The Su is not a “bomber”, as you put it, the Su is a front-line attack aircraft. Fighter aircraft provide cover for attack aircraft when there is a real possibility of meeting with enemy aircraft. As a rule, a group of attack aircraft should be covered, but in this case, this was not necessary, by definition. Well, no one could have imagined that this ISIS has an Air Force. This is a lesson - this is the Turkish Air Force. Well, what can you say about this?
    Are the Turks our “great” friends? Everyone learns from mistakes - for 2 beats they give one unbeaten one. soldier
    1. +1
      25 November 2015 23: 52
      Excuse the remark, the Su-24 is the purest front-line bomber (read it on the internet, at least), and in the latest modification, “Hephaestus” (which is there) with a 5 km 250 kg bomb hits a jerboa in the eye (for many years they have been wearing... .zhu). And they never flew under the cover of fighters, especially since I repeat that the terriks have no air defense. Sorry to YOU ​​the answer is only the first phrase
      1. Mih
        0
        26 November 2015 01: 25
        SU is a front-line attack aircraft. Excuse the remark, the Su-24 is the purest front-line bomber. So what's the difference boy?
        A front-line bomber is an attack aircraft. To me on your magnificence with a large device.
        soldier
        1. +3
          26 November 2015 08: 50
          In Russia, the only attack aircraft is the Su-25. Regarding the tail not being covered, please tell me who has it covered. I will repeat once again, as a specialist, it is impossible to feel a weapon with a thermal seeker, I say this because I know the algorithm of the head’s operation, and it is practically impossible to escape from such a missile. All sides were loaded with PPI heat traps, but due to the fact that they did not even know that the missile was flying, no one began to fire. You understand, I have been serving in aviation for many years, in particular on the Su-24, in particular with this crew, I have seen the lieutenant colonel several times, but with Kostya we even drink water together. YOU UNDERSTAND, I DON’T WANT TO HURT ANYONE EXCEPT THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE, WHO IS LYING THAT NO ONE WAS READY, THAT NOTHING WORKED, AND IN GENERAL THERE ARE ONLY MEDIOCULTS..... I REPEAT AGAIN, EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING WORKED ORGANIZALLY. This was planned in advance, a special method of defeat was chosen, and nothing would help, he begins to whip up hysteria about the fact that everyone needs to be torn apart, WE WILL NOT HELP HERE WITH ANYTHING - BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO ANSWER. Mih sorry if I offended you
          1. Mih
            0
            26 November 2015 23: 20
            Accepted. Pass. I didn’t want to offend you personally, but it’s offensive (taftology) Excuse me if something is wrong. love
        2. +1
          26 November 2015 09: 49
          Attack aircraft are army aviation
      2. Mih
        0
        26 November 2015 01: 38
        YOU tell your wife about the “carcass”. In the SU, the rear hemisphere is not covered at all. Modern vehicles detect an attack at once, and if not, then they must be covered at least in pairs. I said that in this area no one expected an attack - that’s the main thing, but the Turks. negative
        1. 0
          26 November 2015 09: 49
          What is the front one covered with?
    2. +1
      26 November 2015 09: 48
      Su-24M is a front-line bomber, read the flight manual
    3. 0
      26 November 2015 10: 13
      Su-24M is a front-line bomber. "Front" means the forces of the front commander
  65. +1
    25 November 2015 23: 44
    There’s no need to get all worked up about an asymmetrical response to the Turks, along the lines of “we need to wipe them off the face of the earth and arrange a nuclear winter,” they’ll figure it out from above without you, thank God we have adequate leadership, but you should cut everyone into the British flag and guts wrap the flagpole, what kind of people went. JOIN THE RANKS OF THE RF Armed Forces, WHO HAVEN'T JOINED IT YET, SIGN UP TO VOLUNTEER IN SYRIA, AND LET'S KILL EVERYONE, I'll see how many avengers you have, and as the saying goes, "THE MAIN THING IN A TANK IS DON'T GET A SHIT." All the hotheads are very far away, from politics, psychology, history, military affairs.... UNDERSTAND WITHOUT YOUR STUPID COMMENTS, you won’t solve anything with this anyway.
    1. Mih
      +1
      26 November 2015 01: 49
      "THE MAIN THING IN THE TANK IS DON'T SCREAM." This is very accurately noted. So no one is calling for people to burn in cars just like that, but the answer must be, otherwise we will all be completely trendy - no one will take us seriously. love
  66. +3
    26 November 2015 00: 16
    Quote: YARS
    No one thought that the Turks were so vile that they would stab you in the back, do you think they did this without consulting the Amers? They are too lazy to make this kind of decision on their own! This terrorist act of destroying the SU-24 by Turkey was prepared in advance; the Turks understood perfectly well that Russian aviation was acting calmly since the protocol on the anti-terrorist coalition had been signed!


    Dear. Apparently you have never been in an area where there is some kind of contact between the air forces of two, and even more so, countries in a tense situation.

    Everything the Turks have done for the last two months means in the language of the military:
    Comrades, this is our zone (the zone in Syria), do not enter it. Then do not enter it, we will defend this zone. Then you see we will use weapons. Remember the story from their protests to the demonstration of the downed Russian drone. This was already the last and specific warning.
    So everyone knew what messages were sent and what should follow. This was very much discussed.
    This should have happened earlier. Maybe ours thought they didn’t dare and relaxed. And they were apparently waiting for the end of the elections and the formation of a government.
    It is obvious that ours underestimated the seriousness of the intentions and the impudence of the Turks. But they were not afraid. And now what i can do?
    Apparently someone had an inadequate sense of their own coolness, so they thought that they would be afraid.
    Although from a military point of view we will not be able to resist the Turks in this area. But we still have strategists who simply draw with a compass on the map the zone of action of a weapon and think that this means that it will operate in this zone.
    The Turks knew this very well and therefore, insolently, decided to take such a step.
    Unfortunately, a number of our generals who came to power in the last few years unfortunately do not speak physics even at the high school level.

    So what we hear now from “Mosk”, S-300, S-400... raises new fears of new senseless and unavenged victims of elementary illiteracy and arrogance.
  67. 0
    26 November 2015 01: 03
    Quote: Lance
    The answer in my opinion is simple - because I was dizzy with success

    But here, colleague, I hasten to disagree with you! And let the opinion that I voice be downvoted, however, there is one big and very pressing question. But first, let's imagine the situation...
    The Russian Aerospace Forces began to seriously help the Syrians and Bashar Assad himself to hammer these fucking ISIS members and comrades. It is clear that not everyone and not everyone in the world is happy with this state of affairs. However, these “moderate persons (aka the country)” would with great pleasure start yelling about “bloody Russians” if anything a little out of bounds happened.
    Now the actual equation... for the Russian Aerospace Forces the task of bombing the territories adjacent to the Turkish border is already brewing (I hope it’s no secret to anyone that one of the most important tasks of the Syrian army is the complete isolation of the Syrian-Turkish border).
    Carrying out direct strikes in the immediate vicinity of Turkey and at the same time being absolutely sure that everything will go like clockwork... is at least quite stupid. Hence the problem arises - how can one manage to carry out such bombings without the risk of immediately being reprimanded (by the above-mentioned “moderate countries”) and do it in such a way that at least 3/4 of developed countries would fully approve of such attacks?
    The answer, it seems to me, is brilliantly simple - create a provocative situation! But to do this in such a way that the provocation would be committed by the one whom we want to isolate in this “big game” (I hope you guessed who we are talking about). Yes, it may be necessary to sacrifice something or someone. But “by giving the queen the bishop” we establish “checkmate”.
    Ultimately, I get the following picture:
    There is a task - 1) to isolate another country from any retaliatory actions regarding our future plans; 2) do it in such a way that the absolute majority supports us; 3) manage with “such” actions not to invite another round of sanctions; 4) begin to implement our plans without fear that outsiders will actively interfere with them.
    An almost ideal solution is to pull off a scam on an almost “universal” scale. To begin with, we begin to slowly “troll” our hypothetical opponent with “random” flights into his airspace. Thus, we cause the appearance of his stable reaction to our “flights”. Next, we wait until this reaction turns into a persistent desire to “shit in your neighbor’s slippers.” In this way, we create the preconditions for further actions unnoticed by the opponent.
    How will our opponent dare to act anyway? The most obvious thing is that he will try to intercept our “flyer” with the aim of landing him, or simulating an attack, which means he will begin to plan such actions. Then we bring this “game” to the boiling point and throw in “bait”. However! everything is done so accurately and prudently that the opponent... 1) has no other ways to “show xy from xy” except to deliver a real blow; 2nd) we calculate the strike on us in such a way that the strike itself and its “consequences” would end up in the airspace under our control (read in the skies of Syria); 3rd) we act out the entire further performance in such a way that a very small part of people have the feeling that we are still to blame. Well, the last thing - we play the remaining game, and along the way, solving all the tasks we set earlier, as it is necessary and beneficial for us.

    PySy: I expressed myself in a very florid way, however... whoever needs it, I think, will still understand my idea.

    With respect, to everyone!
    1. Mih
      +1
      26 November 2015 01: 59
      This is a very interesting and productive point of view. I think this is the homespun truth of life. fellow
      1. 0
        26 November 2015 09: 17
        Well, logically, everything is in order. Formally. By your logic, it turns out that Erdogan is Stirlitz (Bormann). And everything he did is for the benefit of Russia. Doubtful. Something is wrong in this game. The United States is not doing anything wrong, but a psychopath (Erdogan) will not be allowed into politics, and emotions have nothing to do with it.
    2. 0
      26 November 2015 09: 57
      You haven’t finished writing how we can use this situation? What does it give?
      Although it is generally debatable that NATO countries will not condemn us. The whole world already believes (that part of it that means something on this planet in military and economic terms) that Turkey defended its VP.
      Your point of view reminded me of the dialogues about Ukraine a year ago. They buried Poroshenko, threatened a coup, everything would freeze without Russian gas. Where is the result? Putin’s cunning plans do not pass, only decisive force does. Where can I get it?
      The USSR formula: total superiority in conventional weapons (not only in total number but also by region) will not allow any country to defend itself against us in any other way other than nuclear weapons, to which we can respond with our nuclear weapons. In the end, everyone agreed and behaved politely.
      1. 0
        26 November 2015 20: 36
        And we can use it very productively:
        1) We create among “sensible” people a strong belief that Erdogan is, if not completely, then almost “evil.” He is collaborating with ISIS.
        2) We will use this case to justify the strengthening of the Russian military group in Syria without risking another round of sanctions or accusations of “Imperial ambitions.”
        3) We provide multiple strengthening of air control over the areas of interest through air defense systems and objective control (S-300/S-400 and the cruiser "Moscow" will help you).
        4) We use the above enhancement to freely hunt for any targets of interest to us near the borders of another state.
        5) We will use this incident to increase pressure on another state bordering Syria from previously “sympathetic” countries.
        6) We will use the entire situation to strengthen the internal influence of structures loyal to us in the border state itself.
        7) It is possible to argue with this incident for the start of the use of Russian special forces to solve more specific problems than simply retaking territories back by Syrian troops.
        8) And probably the most important thing is that we are gradually strengthening the military presence in other countries that interest us, again without fear of receiving a “note of protest” from half of the world.

        And on and on and on...

        PySy: Well, in order to use “decisive force” like in the good old days... So we will use the incident that occurred to further strengthen our armed forces and increase military contributions from the federal budget.
  68. 0
    26 November 2015 09: 29
    The author of the article crumbles a bun about helicopters, the video clearly shows a Mi-8 with an armed rescue team, and a Mi-24, so I don’t understand why the author writes about two Mi-8s. And if there was a Mi-24, then no one would dare to shoot - everyone fled, these bearded ones are just doing that they are shooting everything around, and they don’t give a damn who drives or flies. These fanatics are waiting for them to be killed, and they will go to heaven to Allah. Any pilot says goodbye to life before boarding the cockpit, especially a helicopter, but fortunately psychological preparation works and the feeling of inevitability always remains, as they say, who studied for whom. HERE IS A LINK FOR THOSE WHO ARE SURE THAT IF THERE WAS MI-24, NO ONE DARED TO EVEN SHOOT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxMDnoRV8E.
    A Ukrainian Mi-24 was shot down by a heavy machine gun - the control system was destroyed and that’s it
  69. win
    +2
    26 November 2015 09: 43
    The statement by Federation Council speaker Valentina Matvienko that Russia expects an apology and redress from Turkey is not entirely clear. What, what on this false apology and compensation for damage, the whole reaction of Russia will be limited? Why do we need these apologies? Who needs them?

    And what does reparation mean? If we really want this from the Turks, it means that we are not going to shoot down their planes if they violate the Syrian-Turkish border or the next attack of the planes of the Russian air forces, because why bring down the plane if you pay for it later? Why then are we dragging an S-400 to Syria? Let them bring down, and then apologize and redress ...
    One gets the feeling that we are making it clear to everyone that they can calmly shoot down our planes, since for a downed plane we will continue to ask only for an apology and compensation for damage. I wonder how much the life of the downed Russian pilot will be valued at...
  70. kig
    0
    26 November 2015 09: 46
    It would be good to know what our politicians and diplomats have done to prevent such incidents. It is clear that if the Islamists are pressing against the Turkish border, then an attacking plane can easily fly there. Therefore, this possibility had to be discussed with the Turkish side. Was this discussed or not? And what did the Turks say? If it was discussed and they agreed, then that’s one thing. If it wasn't discussed, or if they said a firm no, then it's completely different.
  71. 0
    26 November 2015 10: 11
    Quote: ancient
    Quote: 44World
    Just no one thought that Erdogan would be such a com ...


    And when will they start to THINK ... "Great ..." leaders "? request

    And then at every "corner" they shout ... fellow- we are striking the IS infrastructure, depriving them of their money .... but the fact that IS is supplying all this to Erdrgan's son and ours .. "cut off" them "free money, at the expense of .. free oil" .... and that this "will not end well" recourse

    The Americans "planted" their Interceptor Needles in Injerlik and that ... there was some kind of strengthening or at least .. "stirring"? request
    In addition to the "joyful reports" on TV all over the country..won..we like ... "rubbed their nose".

    And then ... WAITING for our 100% and ... "there is a leak" and flight plans, routes and profiles, detachments of forces and equipment, strike areas, and maybe specific targets, etc. etc.

    Maybe it's time to "wake up" and take up the MILITARY CASE, and not training as on air darts? soldier

    Well, I didn't think about it ... one very good commander A.P. in the past he was very fond of saying, "let the horse think .. he has a big head" lol

    The latest armchair strategists are teaching the General Staff and the President to think.
    In Syria we are fighting against ISIS. Not against the USA. Not against Turkey.
    ISIS DOES NOT have planes. There are no political or military reasons to deploy a powerful fighter force in Syria.
    Several vehicles to repel a “hypothetical suicide attack on a hijacked plane” - yes.
    But nothing more. Otherwise, a terrible stench would begin about Russia as an aggressor, which is preparing to fight with NATO countries, hiding behind an alleged anti-terrorist operation.
    Now further - let's say there would be a patrol couple there. What would they do?
    Shot down in reply Turkish F 16 ?
    Or were they the first to attack?
    From Syrian territory?
    Or what?
    If there was an order to shoot down a Russian plane, even if you hang ten nearby, they will still shoot it down.
    And they will go deep into the territory with afterburner, under the cover of their ground-based air defense systems and US F-15s.
    What will armchair strategists offer?
    Pursue into the depths of a country that is part of the NATO bloc?
    Catch up and shoot down a Turkish fighter over the capital of Turkey?
    1. 0
      27 November 2015 22: 45
      Quote: Alex1977RUS
      What will armchair strategists offer?
      Pursue into the depths of a country that is part of the NATO bloc?
      Catch up and shoot down a Turkish fighter over the capital of Turkey?

      Yes exactly. There are a lot of precedents. See Israel's actions.
  72. 0
    26 November 2015 12: 22
    I'm not Charlie, I'm Su-24

    Heaven suddenly turned into hell for me
    A treacherous blow from around the corner ...
    I am a plane with the soul of man
    With special wing geometry.

    When they beat in the back, they know - they will not miss,
    What are the vulnerabilities ...
    And the pain that started somewhere in the fuselage,
    It pierces from the cab to the tail.

    What the hell is going on in this world ?!
    Do not see me through the fire and smoke.
    I'm not Charlie, I'm Su-Xnumx
    And where are the tablets with my name?

    Piquet will tighten ... Dizziness
    Shuffles everything into a kaleidoscope.
    I have not been given a chance to escape
    I meet the inevitable directly in the forehead.

    The earth will embrace you to accept you forever,
    My recorder let him cover the darkness.
    I am a plane with the soul of man
    With special wing geometry.
  73. +1
    26 November 2015 12: 30
    In my opinion, everything is sad, but simple. Ours needed a reason to legally bring more serious toys into there and gain a foothold more thoroughly, so that the enemy (real, not puppet) would increase confusion and vacillation. Having weighed the consequences, they apparently assessed it as acceptable and organized this occasion.
    Unfortunately, such actions are simply a political tool used by the authorities of any country, and ours is no exception. It's a shame that ordinary people become victims of these cynics. They would set up their own children, not strangers.
  74. 0
    26 November 2015 15: 37
    Oh, did our S-400s quickly deploy? Is that “piano in the bushes” standing all this time?
  75. +1
    26 November 2015 17: 40
    I understand that there is a lot that is unclear in our country, as Vysotsky sang, that the Turks drove a knife into our backs. But I have a question, where is Bashar Assad, for whom we are fighting. After all, a politician is, first of all, a public person. We are waiting for an apology from Erdogan, comments from Holland, Obama, Merkel. Where is he, on whose territory our guys are dying? After all, he didn’t say a word about what happened...
  76. 0
    26 November 2015 18: 23
    The emotions subsided and the “oddities” really began to emerge. Let's start with the little things like video shooting. Nowadays the equipment is getting cheaper, looking at the videos you understand that many people have cameras or mobile phones with good cameras. Shooting the CD Caliber in some way is also staged? The explanation is simple: for a good story, you can get bucks from TV channels if it doesn’t get likes on YouTube or social networks. Go to Anna News for bad manners, you just have to watch their videos, the guys have experience filming in conflicts, I think, more than all the central channels combined. But this is a small thing. But there are doubts about Erdogan the Elder’s planning. Sorry for my French, but they're all fucked up, both NATO and Turks. During a planned action, rush to NATO for an emergency meeting? If everything was planned out, why the fuss? everyone is ready. Reaction of p**dos? We all remember the beginning of the drying operation, it had not yet taken off, but there was already a complete network of photos of bearded children killed by rusty bombs. What do we see here? indistinct bleating and pay attention to the first statements, perhaps it seems to me, but the Pentagon is really freaking out, although it is trying not to show it. Erdogan's psychosis? for some reason it comes to mind that if my son goes and beats his neighbor with a bat, I’ll probably freak out too. And here the thought arises: maybe the youngest and co, who have gone crazy from crazy oil bucks, decided to show the Russian Federation, as a private initiative, their major cool. All the actions and speeches of the elder show that he does not know what to do, is this how one prepares for provocations? Naturally, I am not whitewashing Turkey and the country and it is the country that must answer, but if this is so, then the family must answer in full, no matter where and whoever it is hiding behind.
    P.S. By the way, someone said, they say, what does the Turkish pilot have to do with it? the customer is at fault. Maybe we can release all the killers and performers from prison? Innocent souls suffer in captivity in vain. It is the person who ordered the murder and not the perpetrator who is to blame.
  77. 0
    26 November 2015 18: 58
    1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Because it carried out a sortie with absolute dominance in the air of the aerospace forces i.e. in the absence of aviation, the igil as such.
    4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. As far as I know, SU25 is equipped with a missile launch detection system with a thermal guidance head. And our fighters are not equipped either. The fact is that all combat aircraft see radars with radar guidance, the radar is not used in the infrared head, at least I don’t know the foreign combat aircraft (not from the latest generations and upgrades) that generally see them. Previously, they were only visually inspected under threat. In addition, an attack almost point-blank from the rear projection would not have been saved from this and the su30.
    By the way, the same Americans in Her camp strike with F15mi, too often often alone, so as to increase the bomb load, they remove air combat weapons and even do not charge heat traps, because working from such heights that some MANPADS do not threaten them. For F15 attacked by Pakistani F16 from this position, the result would be the same.
    Everything is very simple ... the guys did not conduct military operations in the full sense of the word. They cleaned Hajjs from a height and when the Turks appeared on their tail they did not think that it was an ENEMY.
  78. -2
    26 November 2015 20: 11
    Erdogan MUST BE DESTROYED.
  79. 0
    26 November 2015 22: 39
    If we look at history, the Turks have ALWAYS been enemies of Russia. Any political games or other diplomatic misalliances are simply inappropriate in this case. The enemy must be destroyed. Dot.
  80. The comment was deleted.
  81. 0
    27 November 2015 04: 09
    - “The protocol with the United States was signed, the United States signed for all representatives of the anti-terrorist coalition, including Turkey. And no one expected such actions, which cannot be called treacherous.”
    Something similar was signed in Kyiv between Janek and the Opposition. And what? Have you disarmed the opposition?! There is no need to trust signatures on paper (Protocol, Agreement, Trust, Memorandum and the list goes on) if these signatures are put by Catholics and Muslims. Apparently, history has nothing to teach us. No.
  82. -1
    27 November 2015 05: 32
    I express NO CONFIDENCE in the President
  83. +1
    27 November 2015 13: 29
    Has anyone brought up the F-16 pilot's name? I don't think it's a big secret.
  84. 0
    27 November 2015 15: 02
    Damn, they flooded the sofas to attack...
    1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not in a pair, without a fighter cover? Perhaps he was in the "free hunting". But this does not remove a certain feeling of an unserious attitude to what is happening.
    There are only 4 fighters, not enough for everyone, plus they seem to have stopped cutting through Turkey and passions seem to have subsided...

    2. Why were the Mi-8 helicopters sent to the square after the crash? After all, it was known that the area is controlled by the Turkoman gangs. As a result - the death of our fighter and the loss of one helicopter. If, instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24, the situation would be completely different.
    Open your eyes... there were crocodiles there too... eights are always involved in the actual evacuation, because the crocodile is terrible at carrying capacity...

    3. It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits came as a surprise. What is it, excessive trust in information from "partners" or a flaw in intelligence?
    So green-covered mountains - no surprise, you can hide a shitload of people there...

    4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. No comments at all. The pilots were virtually unarmed against any attack.
    look less like science fiction... if they worked on them using radar, then they would recognize them, they worked on them in a passive mode, with heads aimed at heat... but on passive missile launch detection systems, as far as I know, not so much we seem to have...

    However, there is always the likelihood of firing aircraft and helicopters from MANPADS and large-caliber machine guns. And no one canceled accidents. Rescue system in areas under the control of terrorists, should be.
    PSS is working, they were the ones who were hit... maybe. were waiting...
    Well, against MANPADS and large aircraft - planes don’t seem to descend below 5...
  85. 0
    27 November 2015 18: 38
    Roman, that's right. Let the heavens decide who should go to the Gurias and who to the Iblis.
  86. 0
    28 November 2015 04: 45
    Quote: PQ-18
    The rescue operation of downed pilots without air fire support, on a pair of IMPOSSIBLE Mi-8?!?
    is it their native Russian rear?
    What were they preparing for WHAT, for an antelope safari in Africa or an air raid behind enemy lines?

    this is true. Turks are Turks, but it’s their fault that the guys died while in command
    okay, a bomber without cover can somehow be justified, although behind every such excuse there are the lives of Russian soldiers, but after being shot down, sending helicopters again without cover is already a crime
    1. 0
      28 November 2015 07: 42
      At the beginning of the discussion, I was “called an earthworm and also a yellow fish” for this. smile
      A precedent for the whole world - and they send 4 helicopters to evacuate the combat zone(!) am
      At least a Su-25 flight to begin with, and then, after that, at least all the helicopters at the base! The whole world is watching this!
      What's the point of "leveling the territory" the next day?