Military Review

Strange aspects of the tragedy in the Syrian sky

432
Not to study everything that concerned the fact of the attack and destruction of our aircraft in the airspace of Syria yesterday was simply unrealistic. Having looked and read all that is possible, I noticed a few really strange nuances.


Strange aspects of the tragedy in the Syrian sky


Some of the answers are not required, everything is clear. But the part remained under the question mark.

It is absolutely clear that no one expected such actions from the Turkish Air Force. The protocol with the United States was signed, the United States signed for all representatives of the antiterrorist coalition, including Turkey. And no one expected such actions, which except as traitorous, can be called.

However, military actions are taking place on the territory of the SAR. Therefore, the following questions arise.

1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not in a pair, without a fighter cover? Perhaps he was in the "free hunting". But this does not remove a certain feeling of an unserious attitude to what is happening.

2. Why were the Mi-8 helicopters sent to the square after the crash? After all, it was known that the area is controlled by the Turkoman gangs. As a result - the death of our fighter and the loss of one helicopter. If, instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24, the situation would be completely different.

3. It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits came as a surprise. What is it, excessive trust in information from "partners" or a flaw in intelligence?

4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. No comments at all. The pilots were virtually unarmed against any attack.

It seems that our command was not ready for both this situation and its consequences. I agree that no one expected this sort of vileness from the Turks. And the attack of the Turkish fighter was a nightmarish and tragic surprise.

However, there is always the likelihood of firing aircraft and helicopters from MANPADS and large-caliber machine guns. And no one canceled accidents. Rescue system in areas under the control of terrorists, should be.

And a few questions regarding the actions of the Turkish side.

It seems to me a strange meeting of one Su-24 and one F-16. A lone fighter was raised to intercept a lone bomber? I do not believe in chance at all.

Apparently, the Turkish side planned something similar in advance. I monitored all the ups of our planes on my radars, finding out whether the opportunity for such an action would be provided.

There is no doubt that if at least one Su-4 were in the air within 5-30 radius, then the Turks would not even twitch to intercept, all the more so if they left their airspace. Even together, since the “thirtieth” “sixteenth” is clearly too tough.

So planning is in place.

Moreover, there are generally accepted rules of action in such situations. In case of violation of the airspace, the following algorithm of actions was adopted.

1. Notify the violator on the radio frequency. It usually ends there. I doubt that was done. Especially, 10 warnings for 5 minutes.

2. Warning fire. Usually done with the help of a gun at an angle to the course of following the offender.

3. Forcing to land. It is accomplished with the help of maneuvers that our “air” readers will explain better than me.

4. And only when all the preceding paragraphs have failed, and provided that the actions of the offender are clearly a threat, the fire is fired.

We have what we have. The Turkish fighter jumped out of its airspace and launched a rocket on our plane.

These facts indicate only one thing: we are dealing with a pre-planned (and well) planned operation. All that the Turks can offer as an argument will look like an unsubstantiated babble. They wanted to shoot down our plane, they shot it down.

Yes, the organization of our VKS combat sorties helped them in this. And helped considerably. But this does not remove any responsibility from the perpetrators. Deserved punishment must be borne by everyone: the real killers (Erdogan and the oil merchant's son), and unwitting accomplices (responsible for developing action plans for our pilots).

A thousand tankers with oil from ISIS for Erdogan Jr. - too little payment for the death of our soldiers. Retribution must overtake everyone - both those who sanctioned the murder (otherwise I can’t characterize what happened) and the one who pressed the start button.

It's a shame that the guys did not know that they would be killed. It’s a shame that they didn’t know that smelly bearded monkeys, who could only press the AK trigger and yell “Allah Akbar”, would shoot at them like targets.

But it will be even more offensive if this tragic lesson is not learned.

The Ministry of Defense announced the termination of all military contacts with Turkey.
The Ministry of Defense announced the strengthening of the air defense of the region with the help of the Forts of the cruiser "Moscow".

The Defense Ministry announced that all targets representing a potential threat in the air will be destroyed.

I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.
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  1. Cetegg
    Cetegg 25 November 2015 06: 16 New
    167
    Quickly "pereobulsya"!
    1. Serg koma
      Serg koma 25 November 2015 06: 22 New
      25
      The US believes that Turkey shot down the Russian Su-24 bomber not in its airspace, but in the sky of SyriaA spokesman for the US administration told Reuters on Wednesday night. This contradicts NATO’s position., whose leadership supported the allegations of the Turkish military that a plane had been shot down that violated the country's airspace.

      It was also written among the bourgeois that OUR aircraft was not seventeen seconds in the sky of Turkey long before.
      One of the pilots is ALIVE !!!
      1. Andrey NM
        Andrey NM 25 November 2015 07: 31 New
        76
        It’s joyful that the co-pilot is alive, and it’s sad that the paratrooper died and the helicopter was lost. It would be right to put there S-300 or S-400 batteries in reasonable quantities to cover this zone, especially Syria, these complexes will be very needed for the future, and in combination with the Iranian there will generally be a decent air defense zone. The deployment time is short, in the south of Russia they are. How long will the fees and transfer take? Most importantly, none of the "partners" will howl about this, the reasons are obvious. Train with electronic warfare equipment in case of aircraft take off on Turkish territory, watch the reaction of the Turks. If EW really can "blind" the Turkish air defense radars and flight support systems, see how these "comrades" behave. Zaletny - shoot down.
        The incident unties its hands to bombard everyone in this territory, despite moderation. Fuel trucks "arrived", free oil ran out.

        What will Turks sing if their planes are shot down over Cyprus or Greece?

        A “Mistral" would be very useful now.
        1. Throw
          Throw 25 November 2015 07: 44 New
          161
          There are many aspects and questions.
          Whether this is a plan of the military, NATO, Erdogan personally, or the blood feud of a psycho on F-16 is a separate issue, and another question is why this was possible.

          Yesterday there was a time of emotions, swinging drafts and hats, but today, to honestly answer this question and the 1 question “why didn’t they cover it”, the answer is in my opinion simple - because there was dizziness from success.

          Vigorous beginning of the first phase of the operation, FABs, Gauges, CABs, counteraction zero, tagil tears the igil, we report cheers. They flew to the reconnaissance to the Turks, the attache apologized, the guys were mistaken. All OK.
          This all led to the fact that pilots and command lost a sense of danger.

          No one relieves the Turks of responsibility for the aircraft, but you need to remember who you are dealing with. And to understand that if you go around the ghetto of Gentiles and scoundrels without a trunk, then sooner or later you will rake.

          We set ourselves up and in addition to the Turks, aerospace generals must answer for this.
          By the way, did anyone answer for the mediocre downed planes during the Georgian attack? Downed anti-aircraft defense, which then "suddenly" came up with the idea to crush electronic warfare.
          Statements about the need to use which now sound completely idiotic.
          Before that, where were all the electronic warfare systems on the set of KRET commercials?

          More than once he stated his point of view, how Papuans differ from air defense, and military operations from air darts, but the distance lost in the enthusiasm of the battle most often returns with a blow to the nose ...

          Air darts are over.
          1. PQ-18
            PQ-18 25 November 2015 09: 17 New
            +2
            psycho blood feud on F-16- separate issue

            "they don’t take such .. cosmonauts!" request
            1. Throw
              Throw 25 November 2015 09: 57 New
              0
              Autistic orphans only take?
            2. anderles66
              anderles66 25 November 2015 10: 37 New
              24
              Ay don't tell stop ! Although, I do not really believe in this version belay . But. The ruling party in Turkey is the Muslim brothers (for understanding - see the events in Egypt). When two months ago, the analytics grunted "why air defense, if the IS does not have airplanes?" I suggested the likelihood of something like this (a conflict in the sky, where a bunch of people who want to fly, fight, it doesn’t matter, a random or planned conflict). So, let's say the pilot was seduced by the ideas of ISIS. Is it really so incredible in a Muslim country with radicals in power, creators, sponsors and users of the IG itself? It would seem that a normal country, even with such a fact, would begin to renounce an abnormal pilot, but not Turkey.
              1. BLACK-SHARK-64
                BLACK-SHARK-64 25 November 2015 13: 04 New
                0
                definitely so ..........
                1. Alena Frolovna
                  Alena Frolovna 25 November 2015 23: 40 New
                  22
                  In a normal country, they do not mock the dead and do not remove from the body:



                  God bless the souls of the dead Thy servant, the soldiers of Oleg and Alexander, and forgive them all sins, free and involuntary, and grant them the kingdom of heaven.
                  They died for you and me, for peace, "for our own friends." Higher than this and holier no!

                  1. ioann1
                    ioann1 27 November 2015 17: 36 New
                    +3
                    In this case, only Satanists remove the Holy Cross from their breasts. And Turkey has initiated a great turning point that will lead to her death.
              2. Down House
                Down House 25 November 2015 13: 46 New
                +3
                Quote: anderles66
                It would seem that a normal country, even with such a fact, would begin to renounce an abnormal pilot, but not Turkey.

                Yes, because there at least every second abnormal in power.
                1. Kuzhugetovich
                  Kuzhugetovich 25 November 2015 15: 55 New
                  +9
                  What about people? A couple of months ago, Shariy was filming an interview with locals. I was somewhat upset by their position, especially because "Russia has been aggressive towards Turkey since the Ottoman Empire." Generally fucked up ...
                  1. Raindragon
                    Raindragon 25 November 2015 17: 46 New
                    +1
                    Fight then fought. Only most often it was the Turks who were imposed on the war. Two hundred years have already passed since the last war, after all ... And again the Turks run up
                    1. OlegLex
                      OlegLex 25 November 2015 21: 24 New
                      +7
                      what two hundred? What are you about!
                      In the first world Turkish fleet bombarded our coastal cities. Although a hundred years is also not enough.
                    2. mervino2007
                      mervino2007 26 November 2015 12: 19 New
                      0
                      Quote: RainDragon
                      Two hundred years have already passed since the last war, as Nick

                      The last time they fought with the Turks in 1MV.
                  2. sledgehammer
                    sledgehammer 25 November 2015 17: 55 New
                    -7
                    Shary ... you can’t continue on. For me Shary, this is a person who cuts dibs on media content while there is war in Ukraine.
                    ask at your leisure Sharia - whose Crimea, you can do this on Twitter or Facebook on his page. 90% guarantee that you will get a ban from him for a question about Crimea.
                    A ball is like our Navalny, it’s just that the ball was washed off in time in Europe, and the media expert laughing Well, like Navalny, it’s like a lawyer, and this one is like a media expert.
                    if that I am for the Donbass and Putin, etc., but such shifters like Sharia, I can’t stand it.
              3. Dilshat
                Dilshat 25 November 2015 19: 06 New
                +3
                So Atatürk, who had also built a secular state, bequeathed to the army: if the leadership of the country slid into radical Islam, displace it. So the army did. But Erdogan this time hedged himself http://www.newsru.com/world/11feb2011/erdogan.html
                As a result, only "non-secular" generals remained.
                But Erdogan alone does not understand, the higher you pull your nose, the more painful it is to fall.
                1. CONTROL
                  CONTROL 26 November 2015 08: 40 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Dilshat
                  So Ataturk, who had also built a secular state, bequeathed to the army: if the country's leadership slip into radical Islam, displace it.

                  As a believer and Orthodox, I have no prejudice against any of the religions ... But ...
                  Reading the Qur'an, thoughts of seizures or exacerbations of the sluggish schizophrenia of its creator, the prophet Mohammed, are born and do not leave thoughts ... I can prove it quite convincingly, with the corresponding surahs and ayahs in my hands! Here - the consequences of a "poorly healed" stroke ... here - an attack of pancreatitis ... stomach cramps ... pain with chronic prostatitis ...
          2. fyvaprold
            fyvaprold 25 November 2015 10: 10 New
            25
            Quote: Lance
            There are many aspects and questions.
            Whether this is a plan of the military, NATO, Erdogan personally, or the blood feud of a psycho on the F-16 is a separate issue

            I guess this is "NATO-planned blood feud by psycho Erdogan." One must answer for this, some measures have already been taken, statements and positions have been expressed, and when all the Russians (including those who are being held against their will) return to their homeland, Turkey will receive the very “flesh” from which teeth fly out in packs. There is no need to hurry, and there is no reason, Russia has endured all the 90s, and now it is giving out debts, I think it will be the same with the Turks. Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten. IMHO. Sincerely.
            1. NordUral
              NordUral 25 November 2015 10: 48 New
              +3
              It seems to me that not even NATO as a whole, but the guys from the Pentagon.
            2. Travian
              Travian 25 November 2015 13: 01 New
              10
              Turks must answer for our Caucasus
          3. tankist epta
            tankist epta 25 November 2015 10: 10 New
            31
            You are right, I hope there will be a big debriefing among the command. It is guilty no less than the main Ottoman. How could Mi8 be sent without cover as well ?! It doesn't fit in my head. And yes, if they don’t burn out all this border territory with the “moderate”, the guys died in vain.
            1. mervino2007
              mervino2007 26 November 2015 12: 21 New
              0
              Quote: tankist epta
              How could Mi8 be sent without cover as well ?!

              Diagnosis: chronic inadequate current situation.
          4. Good me
            Good me 25 November 2015 10: 41 New
            12
            1. Notify the violator on the radio frequency. It usually ends there. I doubt that was done. Especially, 10 warnings for 5 minutes.


            Six seconds

            In northern Syria, in the province of Latakia, the Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter attacked and shot down the Russian Su-24 front-line bomber.

            Official Ankara claims that a Russian plane violated Turkish airspace and was shot down after repeated warnings. In support of its version, Turkey announced the flight paths of its F-16 and the Russian Su-24.

            If you put the trajectories on the map, the Russian plane at the time of the attack really was above the territory of Turkey, which wedged into the territory of Syria with a kind of "gut" a little more than two thousand meters wide.

            The assertion of the Turkish authorities that they repeatedly warned the Russian plane about the violation of airspace is doubtful. To overcome the distance of two thousand meters, the Su-24 needs no more than six seconds. Most likely, Turkey means that it previously warned Russia about unauthorized flights over its territory.

            If you look at the wind rose in the Latakia region, strong winds from the south constantly blow there. And aircraft can land at the Khmeimim airbase exclusively from the north, that is, from the Syrian-Turkish border. That is, Russian planes are forced to “drop in” for a few seconds into Turkish territory while landing. And such “jumps” occurred regularly from the 30 of September, when the first sortie was completed.

            Official Turkey is well aware of this. It turns out that on the morning of November 23, a Turkish F-16 plane was simply guarded by a Russian bomber? In this case, the decision to attack the Russian Aerospace Forces aircraft was made at the highest level.

            Events are developing rapidly. Turkey initiated the convening of an emergency meeting of the NATO Council.

            The president of Russia reacted quite sharply, calling the attack on the Su-24 a stab in the back, inflicted by accomplices of terrorists. Putin said so that Russia “has long fixed oil supplies to Turkey from Syrian regions captured by terrorists” (Novaya wrote about the oil business of terrorists through Turkey as early as September, for details, see No. 106 of September 28, September 2015).

            Today we can only say that for Russia, the Turkish Air Force attack was a complete surprise.


            SHE S T B !!! S E K U N D ...,SIX

            What "10 last Turkish warnings" are we talking about? ...

            It turns out that 4 minutes 54 seconds, the Turks “sent warnings” to an aircraft located in Syrian Airspace ...
            1. win
              win 25 November 2015 11: 57 New
              20
              If you put the trajectories on the map, the Russian plane at the time of the attack really was above the territory of Turkey, which wedged into the territory of Syria with a kind of "gut" a little more than two thousand meters wide.


              Well, there is an uncomfortable border with a kind of "gut" or "nipple". Especially from a height of 6 km you can’t determine, and the clouds were there.
              Here is the first Su-24 “struck” through this damned area (somewhere 5-6 seconds).
              The case of a devoured egg is not worth it. Well, they would give a diplomatic protest and that’s it!
              And the second Su-24 (they flew a couple on a mission) flew from behind and from the side (all the time over the territory of Syria).
              So they shot him down. He did not violate the boundaries!
              They shot down intentionally, as ordered.

              10 alerts in 5 minutes

              Everywhere, when the plane approaches the border at 10 km, a warning is sent that, they say, be careful.
              A pair of Su-24 was returning from a mission and flew for a long time to its airfield along border at a distance of 10 km from it. Therefore, there were 10 warnings. Ordinary procedure.
              But after the downing of the Russian bomber everything turned upside down ...
              And these 10 warnings turned into a "formidable" accusation of evil intentions.

              Erdogan realized that he failed to carry out this "provocation" cleanly and immediately rushed for help to the NATO leadership for help.
              But there they did not know how to get out. Therefore, the head of NATO looked so dumbfounded with hiding eyes.
              Now they will come to their senses and find a common strategy (how come! A hand washes a hand! Their own sukin son) and blame at least the pilots for all sins.

              And what else to expect from them?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. win
                win 25 November 2015 15: 10 New
                +7
                I watched the movie Anna-film.
                The operator drew attention to the inverse trace of a rocket fired from the ground.
                Bombers made a missile defense and therefore one aircraft flew into Turkish territory.
                The haste takes.
                Have you foreseen all the actions of the pilots in advance?

                Yeah !!!! Noble provocation turned out ...
                1. win
                  win 25 November 2015 15: 42 New
                  +4
                  NATO had one, the most unpleasant for Russia version of what happened.
                  According to her, Turkey acted with a filing Americans those wishing to provoke against Russia, radicalize Moscow’s position in the Syrian conflict, and frustrate Russian-European rapprochement on the issue of a joint operation.
          5. 2ez
            2ez 25 November 2015 11: 43 New
            20
            The air darts really ended, here you are right ... AND VERY sad for us ... Eternal memory to the guys, they honestly performed their duty! BUT! There were no fighters near the downed Su-24, in my opinion, due to the fact that they were transferred to Syria a little, first 2 pairs, then two more. They are simply not enough for everyone, they mainly cover our attack aircraft in areas where they intersect with ... Indos! And in this area no one expected an ambush, here our bosses really miscalculated! Here it is necessary to punish! Any planning mistakes in war are later corrected with blood, unfortunately ... ETERNAL MEMORY FOR OUR BOYS! SKY ACCEPTED THEM, AS OWN!
            1. Peterhof 73
              Peterhof 73 25 November 2015 15: 16 New
              +8
              Quote: 2ez
              The air darts really ended, here you are right ... AND VERY sad for us ... Eternal memory to the guys, they honestly performed their duty! BUT! There were no fighters near the downed Su-24, in my opinion, due to the fact that they were transferred to Syria a little, first 2 pairs, then two more. They are simply not enough for everyone, they mainly cover our attack aircraft in areas where they intersect with ... Indos! And in this area no one expected an ambush, here our bosses really miscalculated! Here it is necessary to punish! Any planning mistakes in war are later corrected with blood, unfortunately ... ETERNAL MEMORY FOR OUR BOYS! SKY ACCEPTED THEM, AS OWN!

              So then it is. But keep in mind that Khmeimim is also not rubber. There is the problem of deploying additional units of combat aircraft. Based on the assigned combat missions, the quantitative proportion of the bomber / attack aircraft / fighter is decided in favor of the first two. Hence, insufficient cover of the SU-30 bombers in "low-risk" directions is possible. It was reported that the PMTO in Tartus was given the status of a Naval Base and work is underway to deepen the coastal zone. In addition, a full-fledged Air Force Base is being built (in my opinion, also near Tartus). Slowly our people unfold and make it clear: "we are here for a long time from the word forever." Hand on heart, that our planes would be shot down, we were warned ... warned ... dili. But it’s so in Russian. They’ll probably be afraid. Not afraid. But it is in vain. Gouging .. for ..
            2. perm23
              perm23 26 November 2015 13: 41 New
              0
              I would like to understand, since I myself am not a specialist in the Air Force, why the BKO-2 Karpaty defense system on board did not work on our control system. It seems he should both warn and help.
          6. varov14
            varov14 25 November 2015 13: 30 New
            -6
            "Whether this is a plan of the military, NATO, Erdogan personally, or the blood feud of a psycho on the F-16 is a separate issue, and another question is why this was possible." ---- I got to a military site, although I honestly like it, but sometimes I’m surprised that I’ve already watched the video a hundred times, when our plane was shot down, it was an obvious setup, and ours were leaked. And I come to this on the basis of former military companies, where, as you know, there was enough betrayal. Some heroes, and other skaters, do you need corporate mutual responsibility and are approved?
          7. Yars
            Yars 25 November 2015 15: 36 New
            +3
            Quote: Lance
            There are many aspects and questions.
            Whether this is a plan of the military, NATO, Erdogan personally, or the blood feud of a psycho on F-16 is a separate issue, and another question is why this was possible.

            Yesterday there was a time of emotions, swinging drafts and hats, but today, to honestly answer this question and the 1 question “why didn’t they cover it”, the answer is in my opinion simple - because there was dizziness from success.

            Vigorous beginning of the first phase of the operation, FABs, Gauges, CABs, counteraction zero, tagil tears the igil, we report cheers. They flew to the reconnaissance to the Turks, the attache apologized, the guys were mistaken. All OK.
            This all led to the fact that pilots and command lost a sense of danger.

            No one relieves the Turks of responsibility for the aircraft, but you need to remember who you are dealing with. And to understand that if you go around the ghetto of Gentiles and scoundrels without a trunk, then sooner or later you will rake.

            We set ourselves up and in addition to the Turks, aerospace generals must answer for this.
            By the way, did anyone answer for the mediocre downed planes during the Georgian attack? Downed anti-aircraft defense, which then "suddenly" came up with the idea to crush electronic warfare.
            Statements about the need to use which now sound completely idiotic.
            Before that, where were all the electronic warfare systems on the set of KRET commercials?

            More than once he stated his point of view, how Papuans differ from air defense, and military operations from air darts, but the distance lost in the enthusiasm of the battle most often returns with a blow to the nose ...

            Air darts are over.

            Dear, stop translating arrows on the Russian government and the Russian generals! No one thought that the Turks were so mean that they would hit in the back, do you think they did this without agreeing with the amers? They are good for making this kind of decision on their own! This terrorist attack on the destruction of SU-24 by Turkey was prepared in advance, the Turks knew very well that Russian aviation was calm because the protocol on the anti-terrorist coalition was signed! If you look at the first video that appeared on the network when the plane crashed, it is clearly clear that it was shot on a professional video camera, besides this, during shooting, the camera’s incessant clicks were heard, so the mobile phone does not click on the photo! So everything was carefully organized! Why should bombers use KRET systems against Kalash? Stop writing nonsense, and then you stand on a par with the liberals, who are just looking for an excuse to spoil the Russian government. Instead of supporting Russia in such a difficult moment, you breed snot here in support of Turkey and their allies.
            1. cheega69
              cheega69 25 November 2015 16: 56 New
              +7
              The military should be different from the managers in that they must provide for various scenarios. The charters, written by blood and not general’s, but soldier’s. About the rescue operation on the Mi-8 - also did not expect a "provocation"?
              1. aleshka
                aleshka 25 November 2015 21: 37 New
                +1
                let's not be smart! in war there are situations when there is simply no time to make the right decision! and it’s good to remove generals from their posts from the couch!
            2. Klopomor
              Klopomor 25 November 2015 22: 50 New
              +3
              I completely agree with you about the photo equipment. Who runs in the mountains with SLRs with telephoto lenses? In 32 seconds of a plane crash. These cameras can’t even be taken out of a bag, not to shoot. And there’s an interesting point in this video. When not far from the landing pilot there is an explosion. Clearly the mortar worked. And how long does it take to deploy a mortar calculation?
            3. jaroff
              jaroff 26 November 2015 19: 14 New
              0
              It is our higher military and government that are to blame for the fact that, knowing the conditions of landing at this airdrome, that this is associated with a short-term entry into Turkish airspace, we did not discuss these issues with Turkey and NATO in advance. Would sign an agreement and fly "to health." Most likely this was not done. The Turks were confronted with a fact. After all, even after the Turkish statements last month, it seems no one was puzzled to agree on the features of the approach. And when signing the current agreements on an anti-terrorist alliance with the United States, they probably did not include this feature in the text of the document.
              Victory in the air is forged on the ground! In offices, including. You must never forget this.
              In this case, it was necessary to forge victory in high offices in advance.
          8. kuz363
            kuz363 25 November 2015 16: 56 New
            +4
            The perfect truth. First of all, the developers of the plan of operations are to blame. Maybe it's a lieutenant, major or colonel. And the general claimed. All of them are responsible.
            - why did they send an airplane without cover? How many of them there were one or two? Especially on the border. If the plane flies 1 km in 3-4 seconds, then what kind of conversation can there be, flew to Turkey or not.
            - Why did the radar irradiation equipment not work? Then the pilots would have the opportunity to use the anti-ballistic maneuver
            - Where are the praised thermal traps of the aircraft for protection from missiles? They look so beautiful during parades.
          9. mihasik
            mihasik 25 November 2015 18: 06 New
            +3
            Quote: Lance
            Yesterday there was a time of emotions, swinging drafts and hats, but today, to honestly answer this question and the 1 question “why didn’t they cover it”, the answer is in my opinion simple - because there was dizziness from success.

            And in my next fuck * ism and our Russian sloppiness, well, without Avos, nothing!
            (Photo from Max: SU-24M with KS-418E KHIBIN installed EW. I apologize for why two photos do not fit.
            And here is a photo of the SU-24M in Latakia (Syria):
            Question. How do they send "empty" DRY to the war, or "Khibiny" is this accessory purely for show-offs? Who will clarify?
            1. aleeex
              aleeex 26 November 2015 09: 40 New
              +5
              You write about what, and most importantly some pictures are laid out, sucked out of your fingers, JOURNING on the Su-24, the huts were not hung, they were not even provided for it. It is practically impossible to get away from a rocket with a heat head, and Khibiny is a complex of electronic warfare and electronic warfare. The Su-24 has a standard warning complex on exposure to radar means of destruction "IAC". Over the course of 1,5 years, I got stupid reports about how the Su-24 MR with the Khibiny flew around the American ship KUK near the Crimea, well, there were never such stations on such planes, they are not provided for these boards, they were recently released for new fighters and fighter-bombers (which you yourself are looking for), the MP flew to write off the Aegis frequencies, and frightened sweaty blacks on board, and extinguished the ship from the shore with something like "kraukha". Therefore, DO NOT KNOW again DO NOT WRITE Nonsense about the unwillingness of anyone, you think that everything is so perfect, unfortunately it is not possible to predict everything, the Turks knew how to shoot down and prepared everything in advance, including with the choice of loading option. And your works with photos in general are nonsense, extra ones are usually hung there. fuel tanks PTB-1500
              1. aleeex
                aleeex 26 November 2015 10: 05 New
                +1
                PTB-3000 are hung up if the flight lasts more than 30-40 minutes
              2. user1212
                user1212 26 November 2015 10: 33 New
                0
                Quote: aleeex
                HAPPY on the Su-24 hibiny not hung, they are not even provided for him

                Not certainly in that way. It is not hung on the Su24, but KS24 is hung on the Su418M (if it is finished at all). Concerning Cook it is true since 7057 AvB does not have Su-24M aircraft in service. Although no one bothered to overtake him there. I’m not saying that the KUK story is true, but that it is theoretically possible
          10. Starley from the south
            Starley from the south 26 November 2015 00: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: Lance
            the answer, in my opinion, is simple - because there was dizziness from success.

            This is not entirely true. I think that we are too trusting. Now, in hindsight, everything seems simple and clear. It turns out that the Turks are traitors! Here is the news! And yesterday, or the day before yesterday, they were normal guys! If our military command is to blame, it is precisely in excessive credulity. After all, we judge all people by ourselves - we do not deny them the presence of good feelings, such as nobility, fidelity to the word ... But it turns out they can’t be trusted! Especially it is impossible to trust them when they assure of their sincere and good feelings for us. These are all vile, deceitful, treacherous creatures! Moreover, this applies to everyone, not only to the Turks, and to the French, and to the Americans, and to the Germans. If they themselves do not commit meanness, then they support others in this.
            Of course, it will be difficult for us to always expect some kind of meanness from them, it is difficult to live without trusting anyone, but this is our world, still full of meanness, which, I really hope, someday we will sweep out in a landfill.
          11. mervino2007
            mervino2007 26 November 2015 12: 03 New
            -1
            Quote: Lance
            Question 1 “Why didn’t they cover it?”, the answer is in my opinion simple - because there was dizziness from success.

            What is dizziness? Is it a command or a kindergarten? Who will be responsible for launching an unprotected aircraft? Now the "military secrets" will begin (saving your ass) - was the aircraft equipped with a missile attack warning system? It should be. But the navigator says that he only felt a blow to the tail. This means that no one knew or did anything to launch and take-off time of the rocket. Although it is small. And such an aircraft as the SU-24 is not capable of missile defense. Too big. And doesn’t have missile defense systems? After all, we were told that there are such systems. Who will deceive these missiles, lead away from the plane, all ears buzzed. This was said at the beginning of the operation. And now it turns out that this is a LIE. Now look at the beginning of the post - who will be responsible for such a "grave" situation with the protection of our aircraft? Who agrees, assenting Shoigu? Who doesn't seem to be dealing with this situation at all? And the operation with the evacuation of the crew, when they sent MI-8, and not MI-24, to the bullets, I completely agree with the author, is this an unrooted army .....? Who is responsible for the downed helicopter? The command that made this decision does not completely possess information where are their own and where are strangers? Until there is no demotion or landings, the mess will continue. Or maybe it’s such a policy - to put us under attack?
            1. Lieutenant colonel
              Lieutenant colonel 27 November 2015 02: 26 New
              +1
              How do you get confidence about the absence of mi24 in conjunction with 8 when using PSS? You would at least watch the video - the silhouettes of mi 8 and its accompanying mi 24 are clearly visible - DON'T HAPPEN otherwise! And this is the very first video that appeared on the network.
          12. SARANCHA1976
            SARANCHA1976 26 November 2015 19: 01 New
            +1
            1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Because it carried out a sortie with absolute dominance in the air of the aerospace forces i.e. in the absence of aviation, the igil as such.
            4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. As far as I know, SU25 is equipped with a missile launch detection system with a thermal guidance head. And our fighters are not equipped either. The fact is that all combat aircraft see radars with radar guidance, the radar is not used in the infrared head, at least I don’t know the foreign combat aircraft (not from the latest generations and upgrades) that generally see them. Previously, they were only visually inspected under threat. In addition, an attack almost point-blank from the rear projection would not have been saved from this and the su30.
            By the way, the same Americans in Her camp strike with F15mi, too often often alone, so as to increase the bomb load, they remove air combat weapons and even do not charge heat traps, because working from such heights that some MANPADS do not threaten them. For F15 attacked by Pakistani F16 from this position, the result would be the same.
            Everything is very simple ... the guys did not conduct military operations in the full sense of the word. They cleaned Hajjs from a height and when the Turks appeared on their tail they did not think that it was an ENEMY.
        2. PQ-18
          PQ-18 25 November 2015 09: 09 New
          -12
          in the south of Russia they are. How long will the fees and transfer take?

          Propose to weaken the air defense zone of southern Russia (the transfer of S-300 \ 400 to Syria) ?!
          we have there in the Donbass - "quiet and smooth"? ..
          STRATEG! request crying
          1. fyvaprold
            fyvaprold 25 November 2015 11: 11 New
            +8
            Quote: PQ-18
            Propose to weaken the air defense zone of southern Russia (the transfer of S-300 \ 400 to Syria) ?!
            we have there in the Donbass - "quiet and smooth"? ..
            STRATEG!

            I apologize very much, but how long have bombers transferred to the Donbass, which would be an occasion to strengthen air defense in the area? And no one offered to transfer ALL s-300. By the way, the air defense of the Southern Military District, just covers Russia from attacks, SUDDENLY, from the Turkish direction. Sincerely.
            1. PQ-18
              PQ-18 25 November 2015 20: 14 New
              -19
              Why are you puffing, smart couch?
              you have the incoherently miserable logic of a kitchen warrior ...
              you are an absolute layman to argue with me here!
              1. fyvaprold
                fyvaprold 25 November 2015 23: 37 New
                +8
                Quote: PQ-18
                Why are you puffing, smart couch?
                you have the incoherently miserable logic of a kitchen warrior ...
                you are an absolute layman to argue with me here!

                Ghoul your chalk! Who are you, what
                Quote: PQ-18
                so that me argue here!
                the great warrior Manitu? Take a walk before bedtime, ventilate and dream about your greatness.
                fool
          2. Andrey NM
            Andrey NM 25 November 2015 12: 01 New
            +4
            Of course, I’m not a strategist, but about the transfer of the S-400: http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/25/shoigu/

            RIA-Novosti also voiced this.
            1. PQ-18
              PQ-18 25 November 2015 20: 20 New
              -16
              Of course, I’m not a strategist, but about the transfer of the S-400: http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/25/shoigu/

              so WHEREHERE do they transfer this S-400 to Syria, "strategists couch" ?!
              READ and RELEASE do not know how from birth ?!
              Is S-400 (2 dvzn.polk?) Removed from the south of Russia to strengthen the Syrian air defense group ?!
              1. fyvaprold
                fyvaprold 25 November 2015 23: 52 New
                +6
                Quote: PQ-18
                "strategists couch"?!
                READ and RELEASE do not know how from birth ?!

                Kind PQ-18you don’t get so nervous, better accept lithium carbonate and read "site rules". For your own good. negative
        3. Serg koma
          Serg koma 25 November 2015 10: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: Andrew NM
          A “Mistral" would be very useful now.

          We will take a short-term rental from Egypt, if necessary, for the delivery of tourists on free trips from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
        4. Yuri from Volgograd
          Yuri from Volgograd 25 November 2015 11: 08 New
          +4
          Quote: Andrew NM


          What will Turks sing if their planes are shot down over Cyprus or Greece?


          So I wonder what will now appear among the Greeks from the advanced air defense of production in Russia? The Turks in the sky of Cyprus greeted and even brought down the Greeks, and now there will obviously be some thread for the program of preferential weapons and from that moment Allah bears no responsibility for Turkish pilots ...
          1. PQ-18
            PQ-18 25 November 2015 20: 24 New
            +3
            So I wonder what will now appear among the Greeks from the advanced air defense of production in Russia?

            yes, in JO .. these prostitute Greeks!
            they already have long IS C-300..Let the Turks be knocked down WHEN WANTED !!!
        5. aleks 62 next
          aleks 62 next 25 November 2015 13: 31 New
          +2
          .... it’s sad that the paratrooper died and the helicopter was lost ....

          .... Sadly ... Fact .... But it is not known how the marine died ..... The fact is that the vert was knocked out and made an emergency on the neutral .... How he sat down is unknown .... Vert MI-8 has one unpleasant feature .... During a hard landing and falling on its side, the main gearbox breaks down and destroys everything in the cabin .... Perhaps the marine died in such circumstances .... It's a pity people ....
          1. Grenader
            Grenader 25 November 2015 14: 08 New
            +3
            Quote: aleks 62 next
            ..With a hard landing and rolling up on its side, the main gearbox breaks down and destroys everything in the cabin .... Perhaps the marine died in such circumstances .... It’s a pity for people ....

            The helicopter was finished off on the ground after it made an emergency landing and was left by the crew and the landing. In the video, the screw is completely intact.
          2. saygon66
            saygon66 25 November 2015 16: 16 New
            +2
            -There’s also a tank, almost a quarter of the cabin takes ... liters of 5oo kerosene.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Lieutenant colonel
            Lieutenant colonel 27 November 2015 02: 31 New
            0
            What do you write about - how the gearbox can destroy everything in the cabin when tipping sideways wassat Is he moving towards the cabin himself ?! And where in this case the engine is moving? I’m not saying that there is no gear failure - this happens when the helicopter is level, but not on its side.
            1. SARANCHA1976
              SARANCHA1976 29 November 2015 01: 54 New
              0
              This means that in a collision with the ground during a blow by the belly there were cases of 8th failure and failure of the propeller group into the cabin, but this is in a collision. With even a hard landing, an unlikely outcome.
        6. go21zd45few
          go21zd45few 25 November 2015 15: 45 New
          +4
          The area where the gangs of Turkomen are located from mountainous must be turned into a plain, and Erdogan should study the history of the wars between Russia and Turkey and draw conclusions.
          1. dr. sem
            dr. sem 26 November 2015 16: 45 New
            0
            Will not understand. Erdogashka - a stubborn hashishin ...
        7. forest park 86
          forest park 86 25 November 2015 20: 46 New
          0
          Well, with the "Mistrals" we "ally" shit
        8. BEGA2015
          BEGA2015 26 November 2015 10: 35 New
          +1
          Andrei NM: "A Mistral would be very useful now." - a strange opinion. The Mistral is a landing scandal.

          The questions asked in the article are quite correct - they sent a bomb truck without cover, then "... Mi-8 helicopters were sent to the square of the fall." Complete frivolity!
          One of the turntables, after landing in the pilot search area, stood in full view, like a target in a shooting range.
          I watched on YouTube how the bearded shot MI-8 almost point blank. It's a shame, but not "annoying and okay." - Many should pay for these losses!

          And this despite the fact that the Turks, long before this tragic event, threatened with serious consequences for violating the Turkish air border.
          After all, only now a decision has been made to cover the bombers.
          An old saying is appropriate here: "Thunder will not strike, man will not cross himself."
        9. fisherman2
          fisherman2 15 December 2015 17: 39 New
          0
          It would be right to put there S-300 or S-400 batteries in reasonable quantities to cover this zone, especially Syria, these complexes will be very needed for the future, and in combination with the Iranian there will be a decent air defense zone in general. The deployment time is short, in the south of Russia they are. How long will the fees and transfer take? Most importantly, none of the "partners" will howl about this, the reasons are obvious .-- To whom is the situation su-24 beneficial-and under NATO the next count was scored and the air defense deployed
      2. Alexnder
        Alexnder 25 November 2015 12: 48 New
        +4
        Suppose that indeed 17 seconds was in mid-air ....
        And the Turks in 17 seconds managed to warn 10 times, then report back to the base and get the go-ahead for fire to defeat.
        V.y.r.o.dk.i, who do you bet it on?
      3. Sterlya
        Sterlya 25 November 2015 18: 39 New
        +3
        I also didn’t understand something when they sent two Mi-8s in search, in any case two-eighths with four Mi-24s would have understood.
        And the fact that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile attack warning system, a complete paragraph (in my opinion)
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 25 November 2015 06: 37 New
      23
      Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not paired, without fighter cover?
      Roma, how many fighters do we have there? and the bombers? and departures per day? where to take cover for each ...?
      1. Vita vko
        Vita vko 25 November 2015 06: 41 New
        67
        There are certainly enough oddities in the history of the death of the Su-24. But the main question is why this came as a surprise to the Russian command? Firstly, just a day before the advent, Turkey tried to raise the issue of bombing the border territories with the UN Security Council. Secondly, this is not the first incident, and after several short-term violations of the border with Turkey, Erdogan warned that he would bring down Russian planes. And most importantly, the destruction of the oil industry of the IG VSK, which according to media reports is directly connected with Erdogan’s son, simply could not remain unanswered.
        It is hard to believe that naive people are sitting in the General Staff of the Russian Federation, unable to predict the danger level for a single Su-24 when approaching the Turkish border. Our guys were obviously framed.
        1. 44 World
          44 World 25 November 2015 07: 15 New
          +7
          Just no one thought that Erdogan would be such a com ...
          1. Libra
            Libra 25 November 2015 08: 17 New
            +7
            Yes, not only Turkey is there, everyone is vile in NATO, admire how the United States is blowing away (they even blame us for breaking the borders):
            "During the conversation, the topic of a Russian plane shot down by Turkey that violated Turkish airspace was discussed. The US President said that the US and NATO support Turkey’s right to protect its national sovereignty. President Erdogan and President Obama said their views on the need to take measures to prevent repetitions of the incident and the importance of reducing tension, "the office said."
          2. Oleg14774
            Oleg14774 25 November 2015 08: 56 New
            +4
            Quote: 44World
            Just no one thought that Erdogan would be such a com ...

            The generals are given the head to think, and not just "eat them."
          3. ancient
            ancient 25 November 2015 10: 50 New
            10
            Quote: 44World
            Just no one thought that Erdogan would be such a com ...


            And when they start to THINK ... "Great ..." leaders "? request

            And then on each "corner" they shout ... fellow- we strike at the infrastructure of the IG, depriving them of money .... and the fact that the IG delivers all this to Erdrgan’s son and ours .. "chopped off" a "freebie" to them, due to .. free oil ".... and what it is "good will never end" recourse

            the Americans "planted" their Interceptor Needles in Ingerlic, and what .. did we get some kind of reinforcement, or at least .. "stirring"? request
            In addition to "joyful reports" on TV throughout the country .. ringing .. we are like ... "wiped your nose."

            And then ... WAITING for our 100% and ... "there is a leak" and flight plans, routes and profiles, outfits of forces and means, strike areas, and maybe specific targets, etc. etc.

            Maybe it's time to "wake up" and do MILITARY AFFAIRs, and not training like on air darts? soldier

            well, I didn’t think about it .. one very good commander A.P. in the past I really liked to say, "let the horse think ... at him ... big head" lol
            1. Falcon
              Falcon 25 November 2015 11: 24 New
              +8
              Quote: ancient
              the Americans "planted" their Interceptor Needles in Ingerlic, and what .. did we get some kind of reinforcement, or at least .. "stirring"?


              Not rich in choice to strengthen it. 27 / 29 old toss? And count the new 30 / 35's on the fingers. From all over Russia to drag.

              Quote: ancient
              And then ... WAITING for our 100% and ... "there is a leak" and flight plans, routes and profiles, outfits of forces and means, strike areas, and maybe specific targets, etc. etc.


              There is a landing approach - always goes along this box. They waited - yes, but I think the leak is not really needed. Sit and wait for the next landing to go.
              Of course I can confuse request
              1. Andrey Yuryevich
                Andrey Yuryevich 25 November 2015 11: 35 New
                +3
                Quote: Falcon
                There is a landing approach - always goes along this box. They waited - yes, but I think the leak is not really needed. Sit and wait for the next landing to go.

                I agree with the Falcon, the same idea ... the wind rose is such that in no other way.
              2. Suhow
                Suhow 26 November 2015 00: 33 New
                0
                not special, but I think that, 27,29, at cover, they would seriously moderate the ardor of some ardent Turkish leaders. And so the Russian Federation must respond in a similar manner to the slap in the face - impunity breeds permissiveness -
            2. Pajamas
              Pajamas 25 November 2015 13: 09 New
              +6
              Quote: ancient
              Quote: 44World
              Just no one thought that Erdogan would be such a com ...


              And when they start to THINK ... "Great ..." leaders "? request

              And then on each "corner" they shout ... fellow- we strike at the infrastructure of the IG, depriving them of money .... and the fact that the IG delivers all this to Erdrgan’s son and ours .. "chopped off" a "freebie" to them, due to .. free oil ".... and what it is "good will never end" recourse

              the Americans "planted" their Interceptor Needles in Ingerlic, and what .. did we get some kind of reinforcement, or at least .. "stirring"? request
              In addition to "joyful reports" on TV throughout the country .. ringing .. we are like ... "wiped your nose."

              And then ... WAITING for our 100% and ... "there is a leak" and flight plans, routes and profiles, outfits of forces and means, strike areas, and maybe specific targets, etc. etc.

              Maybe it's time to "wake up" and do MILITARY AFFAIRs, and not training like on air darts? soldier

              well, I didn’t think about it .. one very good commander A.P. in the past I really liked to say, "let the horse think ... at him ... big head" lol

              Do you believe in preparedness for aggression, do you believe in US planning, and that you believe the SU-30 would have prevented the incident. Don't you find that logic is not so good? At the same time, you understand that the Su-30 will not solve anything by one link, you wrote about it yesterday. There is no full-fledged VKS base in Syria, you were not going to fight there, roughly speaking, going hunting for ducks, you are not taking an elephant with you, there is a task - there is a tool. The outrage, yours, is quite understandable, but the logic is not.
              1. kuz363
                kuz363 25 November 2015 17: 14 New
                +1
                And the Turks could have fired a ground-to-air missile over the territory of Syria from the ground. And they would say that they shot down over their territory. Then cover fighters would be useless.
          4. kuz363
            kuz363 25 November 2015 17: 09 New
            +1
            You and I may not think this, and the specialists of the General Staff should not be so wrong.
        2. bairat
          bairat 25 November 2015 07: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: Vita VKO
          And most importantly, the destruction of the oil industry of the IG VSK, which according to media reports is directly connected with Erdogan’s son, simply could not remain unanswered.

          I doubt that this is the main thing. The media write about the fact that ig receives 50 million dollars a year from oil smuggling, Turks will receive the maximum as much as they resell, these are tears in comparison with the losses from the reduction in tourism.
          1. Cap.Morgan
            Cap.Morgan 25 November 2015 08: 25 New
            11
            Yesterday, Solovyov Satanovsky announced the figure of several billion.
            Hundreds of oil trucks. Kilometer columns.
            1. Petrix
              Petrix 25 November 2015 10: 25 New
              +6
              Quote: Cap.Morgan
              Hundreds of oil trucks. Kilometer columns.

              Recently, the United States reported attacks on the ISIS tank farms. Those. Turks provide their airfields for the United States, but shoot down Russians? Hypocrites.
              1. Andrey Yuryevich
                Andrey Yuryevich 25 November 2015 11: 48 New
                +3
                Quote: Petrix
                Quote: Cap.Morgan
                Hundreds of oil trucks. Kilometer columns.

                Recently, the United States reported attacks on the ISIS tank farms. Those. Turks provide their airfields for the United States, but shoot down Russians? Hypocrites.

                and the states pounded on those oil depots that are closer to Assad ...
          2. hrapon
            hrapon 25 November 2015 09: 02 New
            18
            Quote: bairat
            Quote: Vita VKO
            And most importantly, the destruction of the oil industry of the IG VSK, which according to media reports is directly connected with Erdogan’s son, simply could not remain unanswered.

            I doubt that this is the main thing. The media write about the fact that ig receives 50 million dollars a year from oil smuggling, Turks will receive the maximum as much as they resell, these are tears in comparison with the losses from the reduction in tourism.


            50 million dollars not per year, but in one month. This is approximately 2,5 million barrels at the price of 20 dollars. So the media write about it. In fact, the scale of smuggling is much higher. Only 1500 gas carriers in a month can transport at least 2,25 million barrels of oil. There are much more fuel trucks. Possibly more than 3000 tank trucks. In the first three days, we destroyed about 500 units, and there are still a lot of fuel trucks left. In addition, there are illegal pipelines. Approximately up to 5-6 million barrels of oil can be exported per month, and up to 10 million in the “best” days. And this is from 100 million to 200 million dollars per month in net profit (no taxes, no duties).
            An indicator of smuggling is that for the third year already, all tankers have been constantly clogged to capacity. This is about 100 million barrels of oil "afloat". At the same time, in recent years, the price of freight is constantly growing and has already doubled. With a general decline in world oil prices, this does not bother anyone. Tankers are still flooded. This can only be allowed if there is excess profit. Smuggling gives 100% profit. Syria is only a small part of this shadow business.
            Events in Libya remain in the shadows. There, after Kadaffi’s assassination, oil production is actually controlled by ExxonMobil under the guise of "bearded revolutionaries." In 2013, our correspondents from KP or Kots or Steshin (I don’t remember exactly) tried to leave the area where the revolution "flourished"; some "muddy" people (apparently from some then PMCs), they were held in Zindan for a week, and then released, having communicated that they would be killed next time if they saw in this area .. Nobody writes about what is happening with oil production in Libya.

            As for the Ottomans, Roman is right - the "P. Sudoplatov circle" should begin active work.
          3. NordUral
            NordUral 25 November 2015 11: 01 New
            +6
            I think that not a year, but a month.
            The rationale is that only 1000 tanks destroyed are approximately 140000 barrels of oil. Let it cost 10 bucks, and that's 1400000 bucks. And I think there are more than a dozen such caravans. And another reason for the tantrum of the Erdogan family - the oil tankers themselves also cost decent money.
            I wrote for a long time. that we will not have anything good with Turkey.
        3. DEMENTIY
          DEMENTIY 25 November 2015 08: 37 New
          +4
          Quote: Vita VKO
          It is hard to believe that naive people are sitting in the General Staff of the Russian Federation, unable to predict the danger level for a single Su-24 when approaching the Turkish border. Our guys were obviously framed.


          Dear, please be kind enough to clarify these words. As for me, you managed to blame the head of the General Staff!
          1. PQ-18
            PQ-18 25 November 2015 09: 27 New
            16
            Dear, please be kind enough to clarify these words. As for me, you managed to blame the head of the General Staff!

            Well, the GSh may not be reproached, but the VKS main headquarters ... obviously screwed up!
            The rescue operation of downed pilots without air fire support, on a pair of IMPOSSIBLE Mi-8?!?
            is it their native Russian rear?
            What were they preparing for WHAT, for an antelope safari in Africa or an air raid behind enemy lines?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 11 New
              +8
              Quote: PQ-18
              The rescue operation of downed pilots without air fire support, on a pair of IMPOSSIBLE Mi-8?!?
              is it their native Russian rear?

              EMNIP, in the video with the destruction of the destroyed Mi-8, it is clear that the "eight" was accompanied by the Mi-24.
              Mi-24 is not used as an MSS machine - only Mi-8. The Crocodile (especially with a combat load) for standard PSS maneuvers (hovering with a winch or hanging off the ground itself) is too heavy.
        4. Uzzy
          Uzzy 25 November 2015 08: 55 New
          +6
          Our guys were obviously framed.

          Also yesterday choked with anger towards the Turks. But he was also in great perplexity, how could they not have foreseen such a case, why ONE, without cover ???
          Cannon meat again?
          1. Alexl
            Alexl 25 November 2015 09: 27 New
            +3
            Who is the cover from? ISIS does not have its own fighters.
            1. Uzzy
              Uzzy 25 November 2015 10: 57 New
              +5
              Especially for you, AlexL
              Who is the cover from? ISIS does not have its own fighters.

              Don't you seriously understand? Before that, there was no tension on the border with the Turks? And where does the information that ISIS supplies oil to Turkey? As a result, our "partners" suffered so much ...
              And I remember the words: 1. "You want to see how your planes fall in Syria" (something like this) - John Kerry. 2. "We need to supply the posters of MANPADS as we did in Afghanistan" (something like this) - Biden.
              Draw conclusions!
              1. Turkir
                Turkir 25 November 2015 11: 26 New
                +4
                Think correctly.
                I remember the words of Kerry and Biden.
                No wonder the United States transferred the F-16 to Turkey. And now they write - we have nothing to do with it.
            2. NordUral
              NordUral 25 November 2015 11: 03 New
              +1
              From the "partners".
          2. as150505
            as150505 25 November 2015 12: 39 New
            +3
            Today I’ll burn the Turkish flag at home, at least a little easier. (I bought it when I was in Turkey, but it’s useful today)
        5. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 25 November 2015 08: 55 New
          -3
          Quote: Vita VKO
          Our guys were obviously framed.

          All the facts for it. Or among the generals there I found someone who turned out to be corrupt, I think this, too, cannot be ruled out. About escorting SU-30 In the border areas with Turkey, there are not so many VKS operations, and here cover should be in the first place. And inside Syria, you could miss one cover and miss, especially considering that the 24th was one. So the explanation for the lack of the SU-30s does not work here.
        6. lazma3
          lazma3 25 November 2015 09: 07 New
          +8
          Before writing such nonsense that the General Staff of the Russian Federation substituted our pilots, and the last lines from your comment indicate this, first think carefully. If, of course, you have something to think about. Judging by your Comment, you simply rewrite what It has already been voiced. In addition to the last lines about the General Staff of the Russian Federation. Here is clearly on the face the fruit of your inflamed brains, or their remnants.
        7. PQ-18
          PQ-18 25 November 2015 09: 19 New
          0
          It is hard to believe that naive people are sitting in the General Staff of the Russian Federation, unable to predict the danger level for a single Su-24 when approaching the Turkish border. Our guys were obviously framed.

          "When God cleaned up the earth..AVIATION was in the AIR!"
          1. palm
            palm 25 November 2015 10: 11 New
            0
            Probably, the analysts predicted probable losses and everyone agreed with the percentage of losses
            1. Dazdranagon
              Dazdranagon 25 November 2015 10: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Palm
              Probably, analysts predicted probable losses
              - but not from the "partners" in the coalition! There is a possibility that your phone will be stolen, but you will hardly expect that this will be done by a neighbor ... hi
        8. Alexl
          Alexl 25 November 2015 09: 25 New
          +3
          The plane did not fly into Turkish territory.
          1. kuz363
            kuz363 25 November 2015 17: 24 New
            0
            This is just doubtful. They are already writing that they had to fly into Turkish territory in the form of a "gut" 2-4 km wide. And then they explain. that this is a minor offense, there was no danger to Turkey and it was not necessary to shoot down! And the fact that the Turks stood on their ears after repeated violations of the border and promised to bring down, does not count?
        9. Volzhanin
          Volzhanin 25 November 2015 10: 10 New
          +3
          It is urgent to close the sky over Syria and unconditionally and purposefully shoot down ANY aerial target crossing the Syrian border.
          ANY !!!
          To warn the NATO about this - turn around as you like, but if the coast has beguiled - Khan.
        10. Roman13
          Roman13 25 November 2015 10: 25 New
          +2
          If the co-pilot is really alive, then he will soon have to tell everything in an interview as it was. And then begins "believe-not believe."
      2. V.ic
        V.ic 25 November 2015 07: 09 New
        +3
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        how many fighters do we have there? and the bombers? and departures per day? where to take cover for each ...?

        If every caulk, where to find shovels at all? The fact that this is a “puncture” in the persons who carried out the statement of the problem for flights = no doubt. However, it would be nice to consider fishing operations. уRka "on live bait".
        1. PQ-18
          PQ-18 25 November 2015 11: 32 New
          +2
          However, it would be nice to think out an operation for catching a live bait.

          in combination with the "ambush beech" wink
      3. Predator
        Predator 25 November 2015 08: 28 New
        +3
        For 10 bombers 2 SU-30 and 1 electronic warfare, and necessarily 1 DDR and C
      4. Igor39
        Igor39 25 November 2015 09: 00 New
        +3
        Cover for those who work near the border with Turkey.
      5. Poppy
        Poppy 25 November 2015 10: 22 New
        +4
        just for this case Kuznetsov should come there
        his air group is not equipped for precision strikes on the ground, but it can well cover the percussionists
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: Poppy
          just for this case Kuznetsov should come there
          his air group is not equipped for precision strikes on the ground, but it can well cover the percussionists

          And what, on the “Kuz” have already solved the problem with the take-off of the Su-33?
          Or is there already a prepared air group on the MiG-29KR? These cars in Yeysk appeared only in mid-September.
        2. PQ-18
          PQ-18 25 November 2015 11: 34 New
          0
          easier to upgrade our air base (s) in Syria ...
      6. ancient
        ancient 25 November 2015 10: 42 New
        +5
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        how many fighters do we have there?


        Andrew, and the Syrian MiG-23s ... where did they suddenly disappear? Or is there no hell no interaction?
        And who prevented our relocate more and carry out barrage in the zones?
        After all, Syria, then almost a little more than the Rostov region wassat
        So ... there would be a "desire", and even better ... "skill" .. or again everyone is waiting .. that would be .. "the elder ordered ..." what
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: ancient
          Andrew, and the Syrian MiG-23s ... where did they suddenly disappear? Or is there no hell no interaction?

          Are they still alive? And then the aircraft of the Syrian Air Force are mainly featured in the photo of the defended or surrendered air bases - standing on the ground.
          Quote: ancient
          And who prevented our relocate more and carry out barrage in the zones?

          Judging by recent videos and photos of the Moscow Region, ours relaxed unacceptably and began to attract the Su-30 to work on the ground.
          1. ancient
            ancient 25 November 2015 16: 46 New
            +4
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Are they still alive?


            Alexey .. are alive and how (almost all of the MF and ML .. have turned into MLD bully ) eu but in addition to the 23s there is also a ..29th .. in a very interesting modification bully

            everything .. so .. a lot .. "said" wink

            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 November 2015 17: 16 New
              +1
              Quote: ancient
              Aleksei .. are alive and how (almost all of the MF and ML .. have turned into MLD EU and besides the 23rd there is also the ..29th .. in a very interesting modification

              Interesting things are happening in the Syrian Air Force. MLD is the crown of the MiG-23 line, a 3 ++ generation car.
              I heard about the supplies of MLD from Belarus, but so that all the MF and ML would turn into them ... Not otherwise - North wind pouted. smile

              However, there is still need to look - that on the suspensions. In November 2015, in Hama, under the MLD, were the old R-24s (“Russian sparrow”) and R-60s.
              1. ancient
                ancient 25 November 2015 17: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                I heard about the supplies of MLD from Belarus, but so that all the MF and ML would turn into them ... Not otherwise - they blew the North Wind.


                Yeah .. only "Krasnodar" bully Well, so they hang ... in principle, R-ki ... they will "go", but here is the "problem", that either P or T ... together in no way because of .. "features of" Sapphire " wink

                But drew attention to from 9-13, or rather to his left plane with AKU-170E? wink
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 25 November 2015 18: 23 New
                  0
                  Quote: ancient
                  But drew attention to from 9-13, or rather to his left plane with AKU-170E?

                  Ahem ... if there is an AKU-170E, then theoretically somewhere RVV-AE (or SD) can be somewhere nearby.
                  Is there really a Syrian response to the Turkish F-16s with the AIM-120?
            2. Simple
              Simple 25 November 2015 17: 57 New
              0
              This is not the Syrian Air Force Mig-23 on 1: 07 ?:


              1. ancient
                ancient 26 November 2015 00: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: Simple
                This is not the Syrian Air Force Mig-23 on 1: 07 ?:


                No ... this is Su-17M4 ... rather Su-22M4 soldier

        2. Pajamas
          Pajamas 25 November 2015 13: 45 New
          0
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: Andrew Y.
          how many fighters do we have there?


          Andrew, and the Syrian MiG-23s ... where did they suddenly disappear? Or is there no hell no interaction?
          And who prevented our relocate more and carry out barrage in the zones?
          After all, Syria, then almost a little more than the Rostov region wassat
          So ... there would be a "desire", and even better ... "skill" .. or again everyone is waiting .. that would be .. "the elder ordered ..." what

          There are tasks, there is a tool, an increase in the number of fighters, and as you propose with constant duty, it will simply radically change the race of resources, therefore more flights of the SU-30 are less than the Su-24,25,34. The goal is to solve the problems on the ground with the available means, the operational headquarters decided that it would be advisable to spend resources in this situation just and not otherwise, but no one was going to conduct air battles. The Su-30 link "flag demonstration" and in a (operational) situation requiring an increase in assault flights (ground operations have no particular success) made that decision. There is no full base, the resource is limited, finances are limited.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 25 November 2015 14: 09 New
            +2
            Quote: Pajama
            There are tasks, there is a tool, an increase in the number of fighter jets, and as you propose with constant duty, it will simply radically change the race of resources, therefore, more flights of the SU-30 are less than the Su-24,25,34.

            1. Su-30s were flown to Syria precisely to cover air strikers. Until recently, they carried only the R-27 and R-73. That is, the resources under their duty should have been laid down initially.
            2. In fact, the Su-30 and so make regular sorties - in recent years they have been attracted to work on the ground.
            3. There was the experience of Afghanistan, damn it - even in Soviet times, pack fighters worked on our and the Afghan Air Force, and even on Afghanistan itself.
          2. ancient
            ancient 25 November 2015 16: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Pajama
            therefore more SU-30 sorties less than Su-24,25,34


            Why are there fewer sorties of strike aircraft? belay If on duty from the ST? request
            Write the rest right soldier
            And you yourself understand. What’s leading .. "saving on .. matches" or as on Shirvind - ".. plays here, here we play again, but here we skip, and here .. in general .. turn over" recourse
      7. ssergn
        ssergn 25 November 2015 10: 53 New
        +2
        And yet - and why then an agreement was signed with coalitions (USA)? Che all forgot about him? This is not anyhow a piece of paper. Document on the delimitation in the course of hostilities. First of all, they counted on him. In fact, only the Turks could bring down, but following the letter of the documents - no. Or am I wrong?
        1. ancient
          ancient 25 November 2015 16: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: ssergn
          And yet - why the agreement was signed with coalitions (USA)?


          So with the coalition or the US? In my memory ... there were so many “signatures” that ... they couldn’t take me away with a truck and WHAT .. did something radically change? No .. Only then I heard from the Upper ... "they are what I’ve removed from Cuba, but they deceived me ..." I hope the author of this phrase is known to you ?! lol
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 25 November 2015 18: 54 New
            +1
            Just let's not confuse warm with soft. Now this is not the situation. And the states signed on behalf of the coalition.
      8. snc
        snc 25 November 2015 11: 10 New
        0
        Why for everyone? Only where there is a real threat, i.e. on the border with Turkey.
    3. Altona
      Altona 25 November 2015 08: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Cetegg
      Quickly "pereobulsya"!

      ------------------
      A zachotny picture, I take to the archive ... good
      1. Falcon
        Falcon 25 November 2015 08: 49 New
        12
        Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
        1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not paired, without fighter cover? Perhaps he was in the "free hunt" mode. But this does not remove some feeling of frivolous attitude to what is happening.


        There 4 Su-30 and it seems 4 Su-27cm. And how many bombers and attack aircraft? How to cover them all then?

        Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
        2. Why were the Mi-8 helicopters sent to the square after the crash? After all, it was known that the area is controlled by the Turkoman gangs. As a result - the death of our fighter and the loss of one helicopter. If, instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24, the situation would be completely different.


        Well, since on the Mi-24 we will not be able to evacuate it. Although there is a cargo compartment there, in reality it cannot lift a load with full arms. Roughly in Mi-24, at most one person can be a passenger.
        Another thing is why they did not cover Mi-8 24-koi? True, it is not known what modification the Mi-8 was. Maybe also not "toothless"

        Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
        4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. No comments at all. The pilots were virtually unarmed against any attack.


        She would not have saved. Not that type of equipment, and F-16 he most likely missed at close range. Who was waiting for this.

        Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
        There is no doubt that if there were at least one Su-4 in the air within a radius of 5-30 kilometers, then the Turks would not even have jerked to intercept, especially with access to their airspace. Even the two of us, since the “thirtieth” “sixteenth” is clearly too tough.


        It wouldn't help either.
        No one expected that the Turks could really bring down. Even if Su-24 were shot down, our “thirty” would not attack the F-16! There are a number of reasons for this:
        1. how to understand (to the pilots in the moment) that he was shot down and not just a technical failure?
        2. Maybe it was C-125 that Ukrainians sold to Ishil (at the moment, the Su-30 pilots will also not be able to make out).
        3. And just peeling into the blind - well, we are not Turks. Officer ethics and common sense in the end ...
        1. dali
          dali 25 November 2015 10: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Falcon
          No one expected that the Turks could really bring down. Even if the Su-24 were shot down, our “thirty” would not attack the F-16! There are a number of reasons for this: 1. how to understand (to the pilots in the moment) that he was shot down and not just a technical failure? 2. Maybe it was the S-125 which the Ukrainians sold to Ishil (at the time, the Su-30 pilots will also not be able to make it out) .3. And just peeling into the blind - well, we are not Turks. Officer ethics and common sense in the end ...
          Well, you froze stupidity's ... belay And why now with the escort decided to bomb ?! Why, if you think this is no use ?!

          shl
          In short ... are you a man or who in general ...?! belay
          1. Falcon
            Falcon 25 November 2015 10: 28 New
            +4
            Quote: Dali
            And why now with the escort decided to bomb ?!


            They bombed him before - they simply didn’t accompany everyone because there was nothing.

            Su-24 generally went to the landing box (because of the wind rose) - why then accompany it.

            Sense - there is moral support - otherwise it is impossible to explain the existence of all 4's Su-30.

            NOBODY thought that the Turks would start to shoot down. We can’t fight with them and even shoot down in return!

            Close the Bosphorus and then what? Through Gibraltar, too, in this situation, they will not let us in.

            Quote: Dali
            you man or who


            Air Force Reserve Officer ... Well now the VKS looks like.
            1. ancient
              ancient 25 November 2015 17: 03 New
              +2
              Quote: Falcon
              They bombed him before - they simply didn’t accompany everyone because there was nothing.


              And what if suddenly .... there was nothing ... and not what .. sit and .. "smoke" .. until there is something .. or again .. "with a bare booty yes .. on a hedgehog .. "?
              Ossetian losses are few? request

              Quote: Falcon
              Su-24 generally went to the landing box (because of the wind rose) - why then accompany it.


              Where did you get this? Su-24s do not fly in a box and in general .. not IA, neither IBA nor FBA .. only according to the 2-by-180 scheme or with a lapel on the RU (so RBSN-6 is “stitched”).

              Otherwise, everything is correct, +! soldier
          2. Tilkus75
            Tilkus75 25 November 2015 10: 32 New
            +1
            The response may include the supply of S-300 Kurds. And they will try, I’m sure!
            1. kuz363
              kuz363 25 November 2015 17: 28 New
              +1
              Too complicated for them. Enough MANPADS
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. red_october
          red_october 25 November 2015 10: 16 New
          +2
          No one expected that the Turks could really bring down.

          That's it!
          The UN Security Council resolution on combating terrorism of November 20 of November 2015 prescribes the coordination of the coalition’s actions “in building coherent counter-terrorism actions”.
          It turns out that contrary to this resolution, Turkey not only did not coordinate its actions, but attacked one of the states
        4. ancient
          ancient 25 November 2015 11: 01 New
          +9
          Quote: Falcon
          There 4 Su-30 and it seems 4 Su-27cm. And how many bombers and attack aircraft? How to cover them all then?


          You confuse the "parade" on the show and the real cover. It is made from ZONES and only in THREATING DIRECTIONS !!!
          ZONES are "built" with an overlapping "... Su-30SM" hangs "in the air 3 times more than the Su-25 and Su-24 and .. has the ability to refuel in the air ... that ... in the Russian Aerospace Forces ... "ended" IL-78 or are they just .. "for .. a parade" and TV advertising "?

          Any VO is carried out with ATTRACTION A-50 .. at least one ...... something I didn’t notice blindly .. or the same ... "ran out" .. is everything .. "being modernized"? recourse

          How could this not save .. and where did the Birch "go" ??? and MAK-UT ... which PERFECTLY sees V-V missiles at high altitudes request

          And here it’s very bad .... "that no one was waiting ...." and ... continues ... "do not wait ....." ... SHOULD be such .. "unexpected" .. " . in the suture " soldier
          THIS IMHO !!! soldier
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 27 New
            +4
            Quote: ancient
            You confuse the "parade" on the show and the real cover. It is made from ZONES and only in THREATING DIRECTIONS !!!
            ZONES are "built" with an overlapping "... Su-30SM" hangs "in the air 3 times more than the Su-25 and Su-24 and .. has the ability to refuel in the air ... that ... in the Russian Aerospace Forces ... "ended" IL-78 or are they just .. "for .. a parade" and TV advertising "?

            And most importantly - that there was no need to invent anything. It was just necessary to open the documents of the Afghan war on the actions of BA, IBA and ShA in the areas adjacent to Pakistan.
            1. ancient
              ancient 25 November 2015 17: 08 New
              +2
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And most importantly - that there was no need to invent anything.


              Alexey .. so everyone who has had the Afghan experience for a long time is either retired, or ..... the kingdom to them is heaven .. and CTO is now teaching tactics in the ZHUGARIN ...... he knows, although the movie also shows it in the photo .. " speakers "and reporting" everything completely and Honored and Sniper recourse

              Therefore, already in Ossetia, BP UG went like air darts .. not to mention Dalniki ... well, here in general .. "relax" .. no air defense ... "all friends., Colleagues and partners" wassat - .. "establish contact with them and ... show .. support" .... there are no words .. maybe I already survived from my mind in old age? request recourse
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 25 November 2015 17: 25 New
                +2
                Quote: ancient
                Alexey .. so everyone who has had the Afghan experience for a long time is either retired, or ..... the kingdom to them is heaven .. and CTO is now teaching tactics in the ZHUGARIN ...... he knows, although the movie also shows it in the photo .. " speakers "and reporting" everything completely and Honored and Sniper

                So, besides people with experience, there are documents that they often compiled. The analogy with Afghanistan in Syria is just asking - only instead of Pakistan do we have Turkey. Well, what was worth seeing - how were these issues resolved earlier?

                EKLMN, well, when will we stop running on the rake? Each time in a local war, we first forget about the experience of the wars of the previous ones, and only after receiving the wort, we turn to the experience of past wars. What is in Finland, what is Afghanistan, what is in Chechnya. EMNIP, SW. M.N.Svirin wrote that the First Chechen documents on the assault on Berlin from the archives began to be taken only in 1995.
              2. perm23
                perm23 26 November 2015 16: 39 New
                +1
                And I wanted to ask you as a specialist. And what can the S-300 and S-400 cover. in such a situation. Quick approach f-16 strike and departure.
              3. perm23
                perm23 26 November 2015 17: 09 New
                +1
                You don’t, but at headquarters you’ve probably completely relaxed.
            2. kuz363
              kuz363 25 November 2015 17: 31 New
              +1
              So the documents are in the archives. Then computers were a rarity. Lazy to read.
          2. perm23
            perm23 26 November 2015 16: 36 New
            0
            It seems they wrote earlier that in Syria and MiG-31 there are. They are where.
    4. Letterksi
      Letterksi 25 November 2015 10: 17 New
      +6
      In this video, Marat Musin filmed a rescue operation of a helicopter crew
    5. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 25 November 2015 10: 46 New
      +3
      Turks as shameful creatures hide behind the NATO bloc .... Erdogan personally call to account and this is the work of our special services. Well, ours now just needs to make a return move ....
    6. Apsit
      Apsit 25 November 2015 10: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: Cetegg
      Quickly "pereobulsya"!

      White slippers will be to his face.
    7. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 25 November 2015 13: 00 New
      +1
      smelly, circumcision on the neck of a bastard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! am
    8. stroybat ZABVO
      stroybat ZABVO 25 November 2015 20: 01 New
      0
      to find, bring down a Turk, not to take prisoner. all.
    9. Valiich
      Valiich 25 November 2015 22: 41 New
      +1
      Everything is written correctly by the author. But none of “ours” drew attention to the fact that all the time the dodging United States so quickly signed a document “on flight rules and cases in the fall ...” and Kerry hinted, this should have been alarming, but no, as we always believed, and here is the result. I think the lesson is quite serious and the correct conclusion is made. S-400 and everything else will now take effect. Only the Force is respected and fearful by spiteful critics, and the Russian Aerospace Forces and other means of the Russian Armed Forces will answer these mountainous hateful places with an answer and answer for our guys!
    10. SIMM
      SIMM 26 November 2015 17: 34 New
      0
      YES!!!
      Only memory, like a fish - 3 SECONDS!
  2. Oml
    Oml 25 November 2015 06: 16 New
    +3
    I agree a lot !!!
  3. rope
    rope 25 November 2015 06: 17 New
    -155
    Xnumx times Turkey warned
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 25 November 2015 06: 34 New
      27
      Xnumx times Turkey warned


      What does it mean to warn ... the Turks are well aware of what is happening in SYRIA and could come to our command with any requirements or requests .. but they preferred to bring down our plane ... well then it means that with respect to Turkish planes there will be exactly the same answer ....
      at the slightest threat to our aircraft, retaliatory measures will now be taken ... you really should not blame the Turks if that .... you yourself will be to blame.
      1. luiswoo
        luiswoo 25 November 2015 10: 27 New
        +4
        Quote: The same Lech
        What does it mean to warn ... the Turks are well aware of what is happening in SYRIA and could come to our command with any requirements or requests .. but they preferred to bring down our plane ... well then it means that with respect to Turkish planes there will be exactly the same answer ....
        at the slightest threat to our aircraft, retaliatory measures will now be taken ... you really should not blame the Turks if that .... you yourself will be to blame.

        On the tracks you can clearly see that the fighter was waiting for the right moment, spinning on a small patch to catch the moment of crossing this patch. The tape with reference to Reuters reports that they did not succeed - they shot down already over Syria. "Warned" - this is not even funny, they were preparing for it.
      2. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 25 November 2015 11: 01 New
        +1
        at the slightest threat to our aircraft, retaliatory measures will now be taken ... you really should not blame the Turks if that .... you yourself will be to blame.
        And it should not be at the slightest threat, but at every fact of appearing in the vicinity of our aircraft. Even if it’s 70-100 km, even before the threat is created, it’s still flying and flying.
        Preventively and indicating that they themselves paved the way for such an approach.
        And to the bleating of the Turks that the type of plane was unidentified, the official note is to answer that in this vein, apologies are not accepted and are considered as mockery.
      3. NordUral
        NordUral 25 November 2015 11: 07 New
        +3
        Flashed yesterday - a no-fly zone in Syria in the area, along the entire border with the Turks. And there to shoot down without ceremony.
    2. mad
      mad 25 November 2015 06: 36 New
      13
      Xnumx times Turkey warned

      This is how to seriously take the yapping of a petty evil mongrel ... only now she has painfully clawed at her leg, she will have to kick painfully.
      1. fyvaprold
        fyvaprold 25 November 2015 11: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: mad
        This is how to seriously take the yapping of a petty evil mongrel ... only now she has painfully clawed at her leg, she will have to kick painfully.

        In Russia, it is customary to kill rabid dogs with a stick. Sincerely.
    3. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 25 November 2015 06: 38 New
      14
      Quote: rope
      Xnumx times Turkey warned

      but we will not warn ...
    4. V.ic
      V.ic 25 November 2015 07: 14 New
      +4
      Quote: rope
      Xnumx times Turkey warned

      "rope", I am in the picture: to empty do not apply a hand to the head.
    5. nekot
      nekot 25 November 2015 09: 00 New
      +6
      Post a photo of the future corpse?))
    6. dali
      dali 25 November 2015 10: 11 New
      +3
      Quote: rope
      Xnumx times Turkey warned
      Is there concrete evidence?

      And the General Staff of the Russian Federation claims that there was not a single warning ...

      And the Turks cannot provide any evidence that they warned !!! Because there is nothing to show them !!!
      1. rope
        rope 25 November 2015 10: 31 New
        -43
        Turkey has warned Russia repeatedly - you will violate our airspace - we will shoot down planes (http://lenta.ru/news/2015/10/17/shootdown/) you got your angry
        1. esaull
          esaull 25 November 2015 11: 06 New
          +7
          Well, I think that Greece and Armenia have already warned Turkey the same thing many times, and the Kurds are not only warning, now they will suddenly have MANPADS, cornets, vampires and a lot of interesting things, and they will start successfully landing Turkey, in vain the Turks fit in with the igles and did such vileness to a country that didn’t wish them harm but only was friends before
        2. Turkir
          Turkir 25 November 2015 11: 30 New
          +1
          And where did you get the idea that there was a violation of space?
          Erdogan told you?
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 30 New
          +7
          Quote: rope
          Turkey has warned Russia repeatedly - you will violate our airspace - we will shoot down planes (http://lenta.ru/news/2015/10/17/shootdown/) you got your

          Short-term violation of the air border can never be an occasion for attack
          (c) one Recep Erdogan
        4. Olkass
          Olkass 25 November 2015 12: 08 New
          10
          Quote: rope
          Turkey has warned Russia repeatedly - you will violate our airspace - we will shoot down planes (http://lenta.ru/news/2015/10/17/shootdown/) you got your angry

          Are you so joyful?
          Do you think that you have a long time left before the massacre?
          And who do you think the "advanced" Kazakhs will convert to the "true" faith? That's right, those whom Russia is now hammering in Syria.
          And by and large, who in your diocese are the owners of the factories-mines-parades? Kazakhs? In your aul, the Americans have been bossing for a long time. And they have long dreamed of pitting the south of your republic with the north.
          Or am I wrong?
          Zarub yourself on your nose - God forbid Nazarbaich leave, cry.
        5. Olkass
          Olkass 25 November 2015 12: 08 New
          0
          Quote: rope
          Turkey has warned Russia repeatedly - you will violate our airspace - we will shoot down planes (http://lenta.ru/news/2015/10/17/shootdown/) you got your angry

          Are you so joyful?
          Do you think that you have a long time left before the massacre?
          And who do you think the "advanced" Kazakhs will convert to the "true" faith? That's right, those whom Russia is now hammering in Syria.
          And by and large, who in your diocese are the owners of the factories-mines-parades? Kazakhs? In your aul, the Americans have been bossing for a long time. And they have long dreamed of pitting the south of your republic with the north.
          Or am I wrong?
          Zarub yourself on your nose - God forbid Nazarbaich leave, cry.
        6. kuz363
          kuz363 25 November 2015 17: 59 New
          0
          It is necessary to expel this rope from the military review! This is not the place here. And the editorial request is to block his address. Let him read the Turkish press
          1. dzeredzavkomimu
            dzeredzavkomimu 25 November 2015 21: 08 New
            -1
            it’s not necessary, why, with clowns, it’s more fun ...
        7. perm23
          perm23 26 November 2015 16: 41 New
          -1
          Do not rejoice. You will get yours too
    7. esaul1950
      esaul1950 25 November 2015 18: 54 New
      +1
      The name of the pilot with F-16, and the ambulance, ambulance DEATH. The grandchildren of Sudoplatov are alive!
    8. Falcon
      Falcon 25 November 2015 21: 20 New
      0
      Quote: rope
      Xnumx times Turkey warned


      In general, the officer died.

      This is about you and IN:
  4. ydjin
    ydjin 25 November 2015 06: 18 New
    35
    Give 48 hours to evacuate the myrtle, and then carpet bombing of the border areas! May Allah understand the heavens, who is a sinner who is righteous! Sorry for the harshness, boiling!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 November 2015 06: 26 New
      61
      But I generally think that it can be done in a non-standard way, to buy land for X lards from Syria along the entire border with Turkey, about ten kilometers wide. Assad I think it will not mind at all. The jaw will drop in the Western world community, Erdogan will get completely overexposed. And then all kick in the ass from the new territory of the Russian Federation.
      1. Minstrel
        Minstrel 25 November 2015 06: 48 New
        37
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        buy land for X lards from Syria along the entire border with Turkey

        Do not buy - it is better to rent. For 99 years, for example. This is a more realistic option.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 25 November 2015 06: 57 New
          +8
          Quote: Minstrel

          Do not buy - it is better to rent. For 99 years, for example. This is a more realistic option.

          Keep
      2. perm23
        perm23 25 November 2015 07: 11 New
        +3
        Super, or even let Syria, wants to become part of Russia. It’s not true that renting land is, buying is a super plan and you will not find fault.
        1. Cap.Morgan
          Cap.Morgan 25 November 2015 08: 27 New
          +6
          We already had Georgia in our squad, and also Turkmenistan. Haha, Haha ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. win
          win 25 November 2015 15: 22 New
          +6
          let Syria want to become part of Russia


          The Supreme Mufti of Russia Talgat Tajuddin invited Vladimir Putin to deal with Syria and Israel, as with the Crimea.

          Peskov took this as a joke.
          But every joke has a fraction of a joke ...

          But where is Israel?
          1. Captain45
            Captain45 25 November 2015 18: 34 New
            +2
            Quote: Siegen
            But where is Israel?

            This is the place Golda Meir we slapped
            and there is a quarter of our former people. (c) V.S. Vysotsky
      3. Monetniy
        Monetniy 25 November 2015 08: 11 New
        +4
        That would be a turn !!!
      4. Kaccad
        Kaccad 25 November 2015 08: 37 New
        +8
        good drinks You don’t even have to buy, but rent for three years: for "agricultural cultivation of the land, as part of the import substitution program." here we are collective farmers, whatever AKM does, it turns out bully
      5. passerby1
        passerby1 25 November 2015 08: 50 New
        +1
        We’ve lost it already and pretend that everything’s ok, we’ve stopped cooperating only on the “military line” and are sitting around it, and you will “buy out”, “kick in the ass.” It turns out that NATO membership comes with a free bonus in the form of the ability to shoot down Russian planes with impunity and kill pilots, and we will stop cooperation on the “military line”.
      6. Apsit
        Apsit 25 November 2015 11: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        do not standard

        plus. To beat this territory to all jackals like a bone in the throat
    2. Serg koma
      Serg koma 25 November 2015 06: 36 New
      +7
      and then carpet bombing of border areas

      If these are the border territories of Turkey - a war, but the border territories of Syria, to work out so that no one could hide with a gun (or rather, that there would be ANYWHERE to hide) - probably adequately. Moreover, they themselves confirmed (video shooting of paratroopers) their ISIS loyalty, speaking (armed) against the Russian coalition in Syria.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 25 November 2015 06: 42 New
        +8
        Quote: Serg Koma
        . Moreover, they themselves confirmed (video shooting of paratroopers) their ISIS loyalty,

        And they have defenders
        1. perm23
          perm23 25 November 2015 07: 12 New
          10
          And Russian pilots have the right to defend themselves.
        2. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 25 November 2015 08: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And they have defenders

          Let's see what the Americans will sing, the code of their pilots will be wet. But there is such a chance!
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 25 November 2015 12: 06 New
            +2
            I remember the Japanese tried to bomb their sailors (successfully tried), it ended EXTREMELY SORROW for the Japs. I think if the Turks shot down the LA Yankees, then the consequences would be ALREADY YESTERDAY and Erdogan would have eaten ties.
        3. Turkir
          Turkir 25 November 2015 11: 33 New
          +1
          It is a pity that in Vietnam they did not kill ALL captured American pilots.
          We will now know what to do with them.
        4. dzeredzavkomimu
          dzeredzavkomimu 25 November 2015 21: 10 New
          0
          Well then, the Afghan Taliban have the same wish
  5. VladimirRG
    VladimirRG 25 November 2015 06: 20 New
    +4
    the last in the article is the most true.
    1. DEMENTIY
      DEMENTIY 25 November 2015 08: 47 New
      -6
      Quote: VladimirRG
      the last in the article is the most true.


      It? "Burn everyone ..." !?
      Read with old people, women and children! And may God understand? And I thought that the Russian is different from the mattress, burgher, sir, etc. democratizer ...
      1. tankist epta
        tankist epta 25 November 2015 10: 21 New
        +4
        in this case all
        1. esaull
          esaull 25 November 2015 11: 13 New
          +2
          Russians do not fight with children and women
          1. I am
            I am 25 November 2015 19: 03 New
            0
            And we will warn them, in 45 minutes ......
      2. I am
        I am 25 November 2015 19: 02 New
        0
        That is all! maybe ALL is a little too much, although ...... but the air base with which this f-16 took off definitely needs to be multiplied by zero. But not a tactical weapon - it will be bold. vacuum and / or thermobaric ammunition. And that would be fair and correct !!!!!!!
  6. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 25 November 2015 06: 20 New
    10
    The prepared provocation is unequivocal. Even to shoot a detailed video, you have to sit and wait! Just like the F-16 was barrage in ambush. In short, the Turks opened a war on the side of ISIS (or rather, for their stolen oil)!
    1. Kovlad
      Kovlad 25 November 2015 07: 43 New
      +1
      My opinion is the same. And yet, I was waiting for Assad’s statement as the legitimate “still president” of Syria: the sky over Syria belongs to Syria, flights over Syria can only be carried out with the permission of the Syrian government, all the rest will be interrupted by Syrian air defense and aviation!
      But Assad is silent.
      1. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 25 November 2015 08: 59 New
        +5
        Quote: Kovlad
        But Assad is silent.

        Assad has repeatedly said this, he is not a parrot, he must speak to the GDP and Shoigu and to speak in deeds. Assad isn’t worth it!
        1. Kovlad
          Kovlad 25 November 2015 09: 08 New
          -2
          When and what did Assad say in this particular case? The Allied war plane was shot down in the sky of Syria. And the President of Syria must voice his position rather harshly.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 25 November 2015 06: 20 New
    +2
    There is nothing special to comment on, I agree with the author, God forbid, while there is at least a little hope that one of the pilots would stay alive ... I still hope ..
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 25 November 2015 06: 47 New
      +3
      There is nothing special to comment on, I agree with the author, God forbid, while there is at least a little hope that one of the pilots would stay alive ... I still hope ..


      The co-pilot is alive and most importantly safe .... the news is already spreading through the media
  8. Glot
    Glot 25 November 2015 06: 22 New
    +6
    I think that this cannot be left unanswered !!! Otherwise, as they say "lose face."
    Let's see how they answer.
    It is clear that the Turks themselves would not do that. They were given a command, they were waiting for a suitable plane in a suitable place. Wait ...
    In general, they are dirty tricks. Although I personally am not surprised. It was expected.
    And our VKS must draw conclusions for themselves. Do not relax in the war.
  9. ivan48857
    ivan48857 25 November 2015 06: 22 New
    +6
    I completely agree with the last paragraph, especially since we have the strength and means. In fairness, I want something more. This cannot be forgiven.
  10. tommy717
    tommy717 25 November 2015 06: 22 New
    +9
    Russian Spring reports that the Syrian paratroopers rescued the second pilot and delivered to the air base. Now you can give the go-ahead for the manufacture of a lunar landscape on the border with the Turks.
  11. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 25 November 2015 06: 23 New
    27
    Along the diplomatic line, the reaction has already begun. I will not undertake to predict the actions of Russia. Most likely, Turkey will have to strongly regret its actions. I consider the author’s soap about the sanitation of the area to be absolutely true. Unfortunately, the dead pilot cannot be returned. Eternal memory to the Warrior who died while protecting the interests of his homeland!
    1. Wild_grey_wolf
      Wild_grey_wolf 25 November 2015 07: 11 New
      +5
      Turkey is pretending to be a European state, but in reality uses barbaric methods as a petty Sheikh, a know-it-all. . .
    2. perm23
      perm23 25 November 2015 07: 14 New
      +2
      Eternal memory and thanks to the guys. And the most important thing is not to forget and not forgive.
  12. sa-zz
    sa-zz 25 November 2015 06: 24 New
    +8
    I don’t know if it was true or not information appeared on the Lebanese television channel Al Mayadeen that the co-pilot of the Su-24 was rescued by the Syrian military after six hours of searching for two hours out of the zone and it seems like he is now at the Russian airbase. I pray that it is true. Off no information.
    Very sorry for the dead pilot and paratrooper.
    1. Insurgent LC
      Insurgent LC 25 November 2015 07: 30 New
      37
      Major Rumyantsev, the lost pilot of the guard, was evacuated. The eternal memory of the hero is the main thing that his death was not in vain revenge is a dish that must be served cold.
      1. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 25 November 2015 09: 02 New
        -9
        Quote: Insurgent LPR
        . The eternal memory of the hero to the pilot is the main thing that his death is not in vain revenge is a dish that must be served cold.

        Any death for grandmas and for someone's interests is in vain. Since the interests of someone and the death of people, these interests are not relevant. Now, if their own interests perished, then yes.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  13. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 25 November 2015 06: 25 New
    +4
    It was reported that one of the Su-24 pilots was rescued by the Syrian military and is located at the Khmeimim air base. God grant that this is indeed so.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 November 2015 06: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: Evgeniy667b
      It was reported that one of the Su-24 pilots was rescued by the Syrian military and is located at the Khmeimim air base. God grant that this is indeed so.

      There wasn’t anywhere else besides the spring of Russia. If they had saved, they would have been informed everywhere.
    2. KOH
      KOH 25 November 2015 06: 28 New
      +2
      God forbid that this is true !!!
  14. Ayujak
    Ayujak 25 November 2015 06: 26 New
    +2
    "2. Why after the disaster, Mi-8 helicopters were sent to the square of the fall? After all, it was known that the area was controlled by Turkman gangs. As a result, the death of our soldier and the loss of one helicopter. If instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24 , the alignment would be completely different. "

    On the frames it was clear that mi-8 and a couple of crocodiles were walking towards the crash site. Then a shot from the Bearded Tow finished off a standing MI-8 with the engine turned off.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 November 2015 06: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: AYUJAK
      "2. Why were Mi-8 helicopters sent to the square in the fall after the disaster?

      Pilots flew to save.
      Quote: AYUJAK
      If instead of Mi-8 bearded scum would have seen Mi-24, the alignment would have been completely different. "

      MI 24 was there too
      1. Flatter
        Flatter 25 November 2015 11: 07 New
        +2
        The Su24 pilots actually landed on the front line of contact between the Syrians and the Ishilovites. They weren’t lucky for the big one. Nevertheless, at least the victims. We must pay tribute to the courage of the Russian and Syrian rescuers.
  15. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 25 November 2015 06: 27 New
    +1
    I agree that many questions remain. I hope that at least the co-pilot is alive. I think the answer will be from the unexpected side.
  16. Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 25 November 2015 06: 28 New
    +9
    Carpet bombing of the area will not do anything, not those who have to answer will suffer. Here we must do smarter. All methods do not need to be listed and I think that everything will be done as it should. Why didn’t we expect meanness from the Turks? Trusted. This proves once again that the NATO criminal group should never be trusted.
    1. Shark Lover
      Shark Lover 25 November 2015 07: 13 New
      +3
      Absolutely agree. Everyone is waiting for something like that. Revenge must be sophisticated (not sadistic), sophisticated in the spirit of "east is a delicate matter," in the style of the President. so that they piss in anticipation, in anticipation.
  17. Same lech
    Same lech 25 November 2015 06: 29 New
    +2
    It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits was a surprise. What is it, excessive trust in information from "partners" or a flaw in intelligence?


    I have already said excessive trust in the war is too expensive for us ...
    Turkey is a member of NATO ... and NATO is our potential enemy and the Turks stabbed us in the back once again confirmed the simple truth ...
    you cannot relax for a second with our potential enemy ... the reckoning for this is the death of our people.
    1. miv110
      miv110 25 November 2015 07: 23 New
      +4
      NATO is not a potential but a real enemy! It's time to get rid of the illusions! All recent events are an additional confirmation of this.
  18. jovanni
    jovanni 25 November 2015 06: 30 New
    +7
    “It seems that our command was not ready for both such a situation and its consequences. I agree that no one expected such meanness from the Turks”

    Actually, the Ministry of Defense exists to not only expect ANY villainy, but also to respond to them adequately and in a timely manner! Whoever they come from. Alas, to our MO, alas ... Again, damn it, the generals ruined the guys ...
  19. sevgeniy
    sevgeniy 25 November 2015 06: 32 New
    +6
    Good analysis. To water, but having thought over everything.
  20. Mik13
    Mik13 25 November 2015 06: 33 New
    +7
    1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not paired, without fighter cover? Perhaps he was in the "free hunt" mode. But this does not remove some feeling of frivolous attitude to what is happening.


    He was armed with a missile with a TGSN after him. In addition, during the approach. There is an airfield nearby.
    The most likely scenario - F-16 approaches the meeting point according to ground-based radar, establishes visual contact, and launches. The crew in this case learns about the attack only upon the fact of a missile strike.

    In place of the Su-24 could be both the Su-30, and the Su-35, and even the PAK FA. In this situation, it would not change anything. Simply, no one expected such an idiotic act from Turkey.
    1. perm23
      perm23 25 November 2015 07: 17 New
      +1
      Probably YOU are right, When an unexpected blow from the back, then at least you are a super champion will not help. Here our MO had to warn the pilots that the enemy was nearby.
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 25 November 2015 09: 13 New
        +2
        Quote: perm23
        . Here our MO had to warn the pilots that the enemy was nearby.

        Well this is not a kindergarten! In the war zone, the enemy can be expected from any direction!
      2. ancient
        ancient 25 November 2015 17: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: perm23
        , When an unexpected blow from the back, here at least you are a super champion will not help


        Yeah .. "gop-stop .. we came around the corner" ...... write such crap .. where are we .. on WAR or the next .. SHOW .. with "bombs and shooters" to enthusiastic exclamations viewers?
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 25 November 2015 09: 10 New
      +8
      Quote: Mik13
      The crew in this case learns about the attack only upon the fact of a missile strike.

      Su-24 yes, 24M no - the BKO-2 “Karpaty” airborne defense system was installed on it. It includes SPO-15M "Birch" (warning system for radar exposure), a heat-detection radar for launching missiles "Mak-UL" (designed to determine the launch and proximity of an enemy missile along its thermal trail), the REB SPS-161/162 station Geranium (protecting front-line aircraft from air-to-air, ground-to-air radio-controlled weapons by suppressing the enemy’s RES in the centimeter wavelength range) and equipment for firing DO (Doppler reflectors) and LTC (false thermal targets). The shooting equipment is interfaced with the systems of the airborne defense complex and in some cases their use is automated, depending on the nature of the threat.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 25 November 2015 10: 04 New
        +1
        Question to a man who is clearly versed in the Air Force. Tell me, can a pilot, in general, make out where the air border of another state is? Is there specific equipment on the plane? Maybe the messages are coming from the ground, "we see on the radar, you didn’t fly there?" Thank.
      2. ancient
        ancient 25 November 2015 17: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Bayonet
        It includes SPO-15M "Birch" (radar warning system)


        Sasha .. in principle, "Birch" is .. to the "dead poultice" ... reacts to everything and everything ... that .. "radiates."
        "Mac" yes ....
        About the rest ... I will not bully LTC against new missiles with TGSN .... no longer ale soldier
    3. ancient
      ancient 25 November 2015 17: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Mik13
      establishes a visual contact, launches. The crew in this case learns about the attack only upon the fact of a missile strike.


      Learn the principle of operation of MAK-UT and .. you will not then "look silly" with your .. "perls" wassat

      well, understandable .. ours didn’t have “free fighters” fool , and the "free radar" and "officers BU" is the same .. suddenly on .. "lunch gone"? request

      Well, that’s right ... who is on the air darts ... "counteracts" recourse
  21. Leks69Rus
    Leks69Rus 25 November 2015 06: 33 New
    -3
    With all my indignation, Turkey made it clear a month ago that it would not tolerate violations of its airspace this time. Turkey is the second largest NATO country in terms of army size and many believe that the two are also the same in terms of combined potential. We have continually humiliated Turkey with our actions on the border and generally ignore its protests, at least regarding the same Turkmen. Only a few days ago, Turkey quite stiffly protested against the bombing of the Turkmen. And after all this, our planes calmly fly to bomb all the same Turkmen, and in fact they act close to the border of Turkey from the word just less than 1 km, and many experts say that in such a situation it is more than realistic to break space for a short time. And what? Instead of carefully weighing the risks and either not using the aircraft right next to the border, or if there is already a need to cover the bombers with fighters. But no, this is not for our smart and professional military. And now we have what we have and of course all this was sudden and a blow to the back, although the Turks said in plain text that we would bring down the violators. I feel sorry for the dead pilots and the Marine soldier in this situation. I wish our military to continue to better analyze the situation and not be so stupid or naive.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 25 November 2015 06: 52 New
      +9
      And after all this, our planes quietly fly to bomb all the same Turkmen


      Well, actually not Turkmens but terrorists ... (terrorists have no nationality ... they are generally illegal)
      The mistake of our videoconferencing stems from the excessive credulity in the decency of the Turks ... but ERDOGAN, DAVUTOGLU turned out to be bastards and you can’t fix anything here.

      Business with the Turks must now be given that they can stick a dagger in our backs ... that’s the reality.
      1. Leks69Rus
        Leks69Rus 25 November 2015 07: 06 New
        +9
        Dear what decency and credulity? A month ago, after violating the airspace of Turkey, Perdogan raised a scandal, saying in plain text that Turkey will not tolerate violations of its space! How else can these words be interpreted? To laugh at the Turks, what kind of fools are threatening us here and we are so cool and we are all on the drum? These are the comments that were here. Moreover, a drone was shot down a week later, and this is another even more serious warning. And that again laughed ah what a Erdogan funny but how funny. They laughed. And now they whine that all this of course was suddenly. Imagine that a man pointed a barrel at you and says that if you cross the threshold of my house or at least step on it I will shoot you and after that you step on that threshold and he shoots at you suddenly and how so it is so unexpected! I’m not saying that it’s not necessary to bomb exactly there at the border, but if it was so necessary it was necessary to take all precautionary measures, but it is better to use artillery near the border!
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 25 November 2015 07: 15 New
          11
          A month ago, after violating the airspace of Turkey, Perdogan raised a scandal, saying in plain text that Turkey will not tolerate violations of its space!


          Actually, there was an agreement with the United States and its vassals to prevent such incidents.
          and the Turks could well have avoided this scandal by contacting our command.

          Further on your given example ...
          Imagine that your neighbor is fighting with a bandit whom you support behind the scenes and when a neighbor is at your doorstep without crossing it ... you shoot him and then making innocent eyes you tell the whole world that you didn’t know who you were shooting .... this and called a stab in the back.

          Now they will not show you the back ... because it will be covered by the air defense of the cruiser MOSCOW ....
          this is how the story of this story seems to me.
      2. miv110
        miv110 25 November 2015 07: 52 New
        +3
        Turkey has never been white and fluffy, its sophisticated policies cost us more than one war and considerable blood, moreover, for the frequent hands of its “protectorants”. So that is not surprising. But in real politics it is never possible to relax - otherwise you lose.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 25 November 2015 08: 32 New
      +3
      It is not very clear why Turkey extends its sovereignty to Syrian territory.
      You forget that the Turkish military is creating atrocities on the territory of Kurdistan. For many years now.
      And the Turkish army is no more. Half of her died in battle.
    3. oblako
      oblako 25 November 2015 10: 47 New
      +3
      and not be so stupid or naive.

      But is it that she (Turkey) is actively cooperating with ISIS? As not cynical, there is no better way to untie the sponsor of terrorism for freeing up arms against a country, even if it is a member of NATO. NATO is already actively rejecting Erdogan’s actions. Nobody wants to "harness" for him ... Dashing trouble began ...
  22. shinobi
    shinobi 25 November 2015 06: 34 New
    +2
    For whom did the Turks harness themselves? Here they are cleared to zero for a start. And then shoot everyone and everyone who moves from or to the border with Turkey.
  23. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 25 November 2015 06: 34 New
    15
    The author correctly raised the flight safety issues of our bombers - this is a flaw in our command. And the loss of the helicopter and the death of the Marine are also on their conscience. Russian maybe turned into the death of our guys!
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 25 November 2015 06: 38 New
      +5
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      flight safety issues of our bombers is a flaw in our command.

      At about 2.30 a.m. Moscow time, Klintsevich explained to the Russian language why there were no fighters in Vesti.dok. Take an interest hi
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 25 November 2015 09: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      . Russian maybe turned into the death of our guys!

      And maybe, and the lack of real combat experience, and he is acquired in the war, unfortunately, through losses and blood.
  24. Vadimsh
    Vadimsh 25 November 2015 06: 35 New
    +2
    yes it’s boiling. it's time to pull the S-400
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. win
      win 25 November 2015 12: 59 New
      +3
      yes it’s boiling. it's time to pull the S-400


      Russian Minister of Defense ordered to put on combat duty at the Russian air base in Syria "Hmeimim" S-400 long-range anti-aircraft missile system

      The cruiser "Moscow" will occupy the area near Latakia to strengthen air defense.
      The cruiser is equipped with a Fort air defense system similar to the S-300
  25. Walking
    Walking 25 November 2015 06: 36 New
    +4
    to bring down a couple of Turks near the border with Syria, to say that they violated it just as it seems to me that not a single Turk will take off in the near future, they will sit like rats at airfields.
  26. magician
    magician 25 November 2015 06: 37 New
    12
    burn the area to the yam, so that it wouldn’t hurt the rest to even raise their eyes to the sky.
  27. Humpty
    Humpty 25 November 2015 06: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    But I generally think that it can be done in a non-standard way, to buy land for X lards from Syria along the entire border with Turkey, about ten kilometers wide. Assad I think it will not mind at all. The jaw will drop in the Western world community, Erdogan will get completely overexposed. And then all kick in the ass from the new territory of the Russian Federation.

    An interesting solution, just so that there would not be a shadow of indignation among the allied part of the Syrian population, perhaps it would be better to take these territories for long-term rent.
    But without a full-fledged ground operation of the Russian army, this is impossible.
  28. Mik13
    Mik13 25 November 2015 06: 40 New
    +4
    2. Why, after the disaster, Mi-8 helicopters were sent to the square of the fall? After all, it was known that the area is controlled by Turkoman gangs. As a result, the death of our fighter and the loss of one helicopter. If instead of Mi-8, bearded scum would see Mi-24, the alignment would be completely different.

    3. It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits was some surprise. What is it, excessive trust in information from "partners" or a flaw in intelligence?


    The fact that they control the area onii does not mean that they are sitting under each bush there. It is most likely that the pilot will be fired in the air, but they simply will not have time to get to the place of impact before the arrival of the MSS.
    In an extreme case - Mi-8 will pick up, Mi-24 - will be covered.
    So most likely, the ambush was done not only on the plane, but also on the PSS group.

    Mi-24 is not able to pick up a pilot from the ground from hovering - only with landing, which is almost impossible in the mountains. By the way, he doesn’t know how to hang.

    Therefore, PSS is Mi-8. By the way, he is also not a dove of peace. If the range allows it, the Mi-24 will cover the departure; if not, the Mi-8 pair will go.
    1. Doomph
      Doomph 25 November 2015 07: 49 New
      +2
      What nonsense about Mi-24? This is an air assault helicopter. He can do everything. And the PSS group and helicopters were definitely waiting. This is by the way in favor of the version of the impending provocation.
      And how bravely bearded men threw Mi-8 down. If he had been preparing ATGMs for so long in a real battle, I’m even afraid to guess the diameter of the funnel in the same place. laughing
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: Doomph
        What nonsense about Mi-24? This is an air assault helicopter. He can do everything.

        Able to. The question is - with what load.
        With the standard 4 * B-8V20 + BK for the Mi-24P gun, even in Afghanistan they took off "in the plane", with an take-off run.
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 25 November 2015 09: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: Mik13
      By the way, he doesn’t know how to hang.

      Able to. The static ceiling of the Mi-24 is 1400-1500 meters.
  29. shimus
    shimus 25 November 2015 06: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Cetegg
    Quickly "pereobulsya"!

    ON HIS NUMBER !!! And better on the "CALIBER".
  30. rope
    rope 25 November 2015 06: 44 New
    -11
    as here in the comments, everything was already hot)
    1. esaull
      esaull 25 November 2015 11: 22 New
      +3
      That's when they fill up the pair, the three Turkish f16 will get a little warmer)
  31. shimus
    shimus 25 November 2015 06: 45 New
    +5
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    But I generally think that it can be done in a non-standard way, to buy land for X lards from Syria along the entire border with Turkey, about ten kilometers wide. Assad I think it will not mind at all. The jaw will drop in the Western world community, Erdogan will get completely overexposed. And then all kick in the ass from the new territory of the Russian Federation.

    But why buy it, rent it as a military aid, which Russia is providing Syria and business then! And there, put the s-300, "Armor" and so on. And from super-powerful loudspeakers directed towards Turkey to broadcast the text "Turks, give up, you are surrounded, any resistance is meaningless ..."
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 25 November 2015 07: 46 New
      +5
      "Hands behind your head, weapons in the snow! Let's go! .... And now humpbacked, I said - hunchbacked!"
  32. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 25 November 2015 06: 46 New
    +2
    Eternal Memory of the Fallen Russian Pilot. Vile planned murder.
    Quote: hohryakov066
    Along the diplomatic line, the reaction has already begun. I will not undertake to predict the actions of Russia. Most likely, Turkey will have to strongly regret its actions. I consider the author’s soap about the sanitation of the area to be absolutely true. Unfortunately, the dead pilot cannot be returned. Eternal memory to the Warrior who died while protecting the interests of his homeland!


    Significantly they come across Russia in different directions.
    1. esaull
      esaull 25 November 2015 11: 25 New
      0
      They no longer just run into us, they’re already trying Russia on the tooth in military and political terms
  33. Darkness
    Darkness 25 November 2015 06: 48 New
    +3
    And who will tell you what part of the budget of Turkey comes from tourism?
    There is a feeling that these freaks do not even need to be bombed. Without Russian tourists, they themselves will die.
    1. Gani
      Gani 25 November 2015 07: 57 New
      +2
      Hello. Naive feeling. 1 Our tourists there seem to be less than 20% of the total, so even this tour sector will not kill them, not like the economy. 2 Turkey's economy is sufficiently developed and diversified to survive the complete absence of tourism on its territory.
      Another thing is that in addition to the tourist sector, there are many areas where close economic ties
      1. For Courage
        For Courage 25 November 2015 12: 06 New
        +2
        Well, let's say minus our 20 %%, and the rest like 80 %% will gladly go to the conflict zone ?!
    2. Monetniy
      Monetniy 25 November 2015 08: 15 New
      +2
      Somehow we used to live under the USSR without our tourists, but I’ll support tourism there
    3. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 25 November 2015 08: 35 New
      +1
      The same as from the sale to Russia of thousands of tons of different junk.
    4. Turkir
      Turkir 25 November 2015 11: 47 New
      +2
      And who will tell you what part of the budget of Turkey comes from tourism?

      They have two main flows of tourists: Germany and the Russian Federation.
      The income from tourists from the Russian Federation is over three billion. This is judging by the declarations, and how many shadow revenues God knows. Our tourists actually feed these ...
      I do not want to write about other aspects of this phenomenon.
      It would be better if they spent in their own country. But, as the famous prose writer wrote - "Let Dunku go to Europe!"
      The Germans are unlikely to travel in the same quantity to Turkey and not because of us. The threat of terrorist attacks in Turkey has risen sharply. They will lose much more than local commentators, statisticians, suggest.
      I would also like to add about Turkish tomatoes - they grow almost in a day.
      Is there anything to think about?
  34. Nymp
    Nymp 25 November 2015 06: 49 New
    +1
    Yes SU-30, SU-35 F16 is too tough! Why didn’t they accompany ours? Why was MI-8 sent to search for pilots? I really want a debriefing. At least for the sake of such a shame there would be no more.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 25 November 2015 07: 13 New
      +4
      Probably because the "moderate opposition had neither aviation nor ground-to-air heavy weapons
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 25 November 2015 07: 25 New
      +6
      Quote: Nymp
      I really want a debriefing.

      You took part in their preparation and implementation = then you have the right to participate in the analysis. If you weren’t involved in any combat mission, then your business = side. According to the experience of service in aviation combat units, I do not recall the presence of strangers at the parsing.
  35. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 25 November 2015 07: 04 New
    15
    Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system

    If there was such a statement, then it is rather strange.
    Regarding the response yesterday at "Vesti24" Satanovsky said well. The meaning is that it is necessary for the Turkoman for several generations to instill a fear of Russia and discourage hostile actions against it. To do this, the territory along the border where they live burn out to the ground.
    1. perm23
      perm23 25 November 2015 07: 22 New
      +6
      It’s fair how much I listen to Satanovsky, I always rejoice - well done. You can’t do anything different with freaks. The video shows everyone in camouflage armed. This is not a civilian population - these are bandits.
  36. Mera joota
    Mera joota 25 November 2015 07: 07 New
    +8
    Having looked and read everything that is possible, I paid attention to some really strange nuances.

    Inattentively scanned for interception carried out TWO Turkish F-16, and the bombing carried out TWO Su-24.
    1. Why did our Su-24M act alone? Not paired, without fighter cover?

    There were two of them, a couple flew out for the bombing, they flew not for the first time, and before everything worked out because there was no cover. Typical Russian "non-roasted cock." It’s strange that Roman had such a question ...
    2. Why were Mi-8 helicopters sent to the fall square after the disaster?

    Wangyu, there was a conversation of such a plan:
    - Urgently yo .... !!!!!!! Send a couple of turntables for evacuation!
    -So how without support then? Need a couple of crocodiles to ensure the bearded knocked down?
    -Where would I b .... !!!!! Now I'll take crocodiles, fly like that, I have an order! Do you know who gave it away?
    3. It seems that the presence in the area of ​​the fall of so many bandits was some surprise.

    C'mon, who then washed the Su-24 to dust? Suppose the pilots were sent just to spend bombs?
    4. It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system. No comments at all. The pilots were virtually unarmed against any attack.

    Crap is full. Su-24 shot down AIM-9 Sidewinder. In the world, there are no means to warn of a missile attack from the TGSN.
    1. Viktor fm
      Viktor fm 25 November 2015 07: 46 New
      0
      funds do not warn radiation and radiation. so the pilot learn materiel
      1. Mera joota
        Mera joota 25 November 2015 07: 59 New
        +5
        Quote: Viktor fm
        funds do not warn radiation and radiation. so the pilot learn materiel

        uhhh ... another teacher ...
        For guidance missiles with TGSN it is not necessary to use radar, the target is captured by an OLS that does NOT radiate anything or the TGSN rocket itself, which also does not radiate anything.
        1. Viktor fm
          Viktor fm 25 November 2015 08: 10 New
          -2
          and for this there are heat traps that the plane must regularly shoot
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Mera joota
            Mera joota 25 November 2015 10: 00 New
            +4
            Quote: Viktor fm
            and for this there are heat traps that the plane must regularly shoot

            The heat traps are not endless and they are shot when they expect an attack, our pilots did not expect it because they did not see the threat in Turkish F-16s.
            Well and the most important thing. Modern missiles with TGSN have not responded to heat traps for a long time because the guidance is carried out through at least two channels, and the latest modifications work through three channels.
        2. ancient
          ancient 25 November 2015 17: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: Mera Joota
          uhhh ... another teacher ...


          So yes .. only the rocket flies due to the thrust of its engine .. which leaves a thermal mark on which MAK reacts wink
      2. ancient
        ancient 25 November 2015 17: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Viktor fm
        funds do not warn radiation and radiation.


        Means just warn about exposure in the Review and Capture mode ... and then .... heading angle or azimuth (as you like or angle ... where does the "gift" fly from and at what distance is it already located.
        And MAK so generally .. only on the ROCKET .. "specialized"
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Mera joota
    Mera joota 25 November 2015 07: 18 New
    +3
    We have what we have. The Turkish fighter jumped out of its airspace and launched a rocket on our plane.
    These facts indicate only one thing: we are dealing with a pre-planned (and not bad) planned operation. Everything that the Turks can offer as arguments will look like unproven babble. They wanted to bring down our plane, they shot it down.

    Another nonsense. Any country flies into the air when a military aircraft of ANY accessory appears at its air borders. And even more so when these planes are participating in an armed conflict. This rule applies to all countries with an air force. Ours knew very well that the Turkish Air Force was spinning nearby and watching them, just could not know. Ours simply did not assume that they would intervene, they believed that the next "Turkish warning" was the same as the next "Chinese warning." But the Turks counted in their own way.

    P.S .:
    It's a shame that the guys did not know that they would be killed. It's a shame that they did not know that they would shoot at them, like smelly bearded monkeys who could only pull the AK trigger and yell "Allahakbar" at targets.

    The attitude towards the downed pilots to bombers at all times was extremely negative, especially in such wars. Expecting humanity from people whose houses a minute ago were smashed into the dust of the Su-24 is rather naive.
  39. Glock
    Glock 25 November 2015 07: 21 New
    13
    Water all moderate Turkoman or whatever
  40. Quiet
    Quiet 25 November 2015 07: 21 New
    +6
    America, in the person of NATO, has declared war on us, the Turks are an instrument, the fact that we are ready for this war or not ready does not matter - you have to fight. Now the creatures that have muddied all this behind the puddle will be denied, hoping that they will not be hurt, and they, as already in history, will receive only preferences. We can only rebuild the country on a war footing and calmly, consistently try to prepare and delay the hot phase. In fact, the GDP has already warned them many times that it doesn’t work to stay a monkey on a tree, but they pretend they don’t understand. Unfortunately, we are left with no other choice but to hit the ocean first.
  41. demotivator
    demotivator 25 November 2015 07: 26 New
    +7
    Quote: Vita VKO
    Erdogan warned that he would shoot down Russian planes.

    And even earlier than Erdogan, J. Kerry also said that soon the Russians would see how their planes would fall from the sky. Why are we so careless? We must understand who we are dealing with, that with the United States, that with Turkey, with which Russia has long-standing historical disputes. It's a shame.
  42. qwert
    qwert 25 November 2015 07: 30 New
    +1
    I would like to hear on the site the opinion of our colleagues from the Promised Land. Still, Israel has more experience of modern warfare. How do they assess the situation, including the organization of flights.
  43. Ramses_IV
    Ramses_IV 25 November 2015 07: 32 New
    12
    No matter how cynical it sounds, it’s fun to read comments from the local Uryashki that in the light of these sad events for us in the border area of ​​Turkey with Syria, you need to burn everything with nuclear bombs, start a war with Turkey and all that is funny in that regard that just a little time ago, the same Uryashki gave a standing ovation to the same Erdogan about the “Turkish stream” and Turkey’s “unbending stance” on cooperation with Russia, despite the opinion of the United States and Europe.

    Dear Uryashki (I’m talking about those who recently sang odes to Erodogan, and now want to burn half of Turkey) - what to do to the government and the Russian Defense Ministry in connection with this unfortunate event is not your competence: believe me, TAM will be understood without you. And komenty with suggestions to burn everything there should be rubbed with napalm, and their authors should be banned, for a start, not for long. I hope it’s clear why.

    Of course, the Turks will bear the answer for their actions in one form or another, and now the videoconferencing system in Syria will change tactics and will counteract such tricks up to symmetrical answers.

    To the pilots - a blessed memory, the guys were doing their duty.
  44. Andryukha
    Andryukha 25 November 2015 07: 33 New
    0
    I would like to hear another statement. That in those mountains, where the bullets were flying towards our pilots, there was nothing left alive. To burn everyone, as they proposed to do it with our killed pilot. And may their Allah understand, who is the Mujahid and who is not.

    It too. Moreover, it doesn’t hit the leadership of IS-Turkey. Women and children will die, which will give an occasion to expose us as Iblises and the already ordinary population will fight to the last.
    It is better to arrest all the tankers of this company before the tribunal and cover the scheme on RT.
    Let ordinary French and Germans understand who and why blew them up.
  45. nivander
    nivander 25 November 2015 07: 50 New
    +2
    we do not need a turkish coast
    1. kuz363
      kuz363 25 November 2015 18: 34 New
      0
      Were in Turkey 2010, 2011, 2014. Of course, fertile places and climate in Kemer. But the sellers of the boutiques were especially annoying, who pestered and tried to drag them to themselves. Then they began to go around the boutiques on the other side of the street when they did not want to buy. But more decided not to ride. It became uninteresting. They tested and watched everything - sailing on a yacht, excursions, Mount Takhtala, an aquarium in Antalya, parachuting for a boat, visited St. Nicholas Church (this is the same Nikolai Ugodnik, patron saint of sailors and Santa Claus!), Shot from American rifles at an army shooting range near Kemer, trout fishing ...
  46. Zomanus
    Zomanus 25 November 2015 07: 52 New
    +4
    To get started, get all of ours out of Turkey.
    Because they can just swim to the beach at
    one of the turkish hotels and shoot
    our tourists from machine guns.
    This is in response to our scorched earth tactics.
    And then squeeze in other directions.
    Now the most important thing that we can definitely do is to reset the supply of Igilov oil from Syria.
    Nobody will condemn us here.
  47. kuz363
    kuz363 25 November 2015 07: 55 New
    +5
    Gallant generals were euphoric from successes and colorful reports to the president. And they lost the scent of a real war, where you can’t relax. The author is right. Indeed, where was the radar exposure detection system? Where were the heat traps that fly so beautifully in parades?
  48. maikl50jrij
    maikl50jrij 25 November 2015 07: 59 New
    +4
    I agree! There are a lot of questions. And what they were waiting for, caught ours, fact! Americans promised us a "fall", so they arranged! Neither Ukraine, nor Syria, nor our determination and independence can forgive us and will not forgive! How many more tricks will be ... We must be prepared for all sorts of unexpected people.
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 25 November 2015 08: 46 New
      0
      If the Americans did, then this is nonsense.
      It is unrealistic to break Russia in a direct military conflict, it is possible only from the inside. Maidan in Russia they still can not arrange.
  49. Just BB
    Just BB 25 November 2015 08: 01 New
    +3
    am And what was the Mi-8 doing with the engines off in the combat mission search and rescue crew ???
    Starting the 1st engine for at least 30 seconds !!
    "... Here the bullet flew ... And yeah"

    As always ours is native ____________
    Someone from successes (especially on TV) has already prepared the whole uniform with holes, others set up “new furniture” ...
    But the war is on!
    No one is watching the airspace?
    Why weren't heat traps used?
    Calm down? All around friends?
    I don’t feel like writing about a search operation ...
    Like, "Who will bring us down?"
    1. egor670
      egor670 25 November 2015 10: 54 New
      +2
      mi 8 sat after he was shot with a machine gun most likely. The crew and the landing party left the car, after which the militants arrived in time and covered the helicopter with mortar fire.
      1. SOBR_NSK
        SOBR_NSK 25 November 2015 11: 55 New
        +1
        Fucked by a bird, seen in the video. but why crocodiles did not accompany - this is a big question ....
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 November 2015 11: 52 New
      +6
      Quote: Just VV
      And what was the Mi-8 doing with the engines off in the combat mission search and rescue crew ???

      It was left by the crew after damage.
      Apparently, ours were planning to somehow repair it - otherwise the helicopter should have been destroyed. In the days of Afghanistan, even standard instructions for this were developed:
      Machines that could not be repaired were destroyed on the spot, which also required skill: the mutilated helicopters did not want to burn from incendiary bullets and did not even explode from the impact of HARs, piercing the tin through and through. To prevent the enemy from getting into the helicopter, a specially developed instruction required: “Place all surviving NAR S-5 in the cargo and crew cabs, bombs under the fuselage on the ground, destroy the fuel and hydraulic pipelines with blows in the lower part of the fuselage; place the covers soaked in kerosene not less than 20 m long, providing a safe passage to a place. "
      (c) Mi-24 in Afghanistan
  50. Viktor fm
    Viktor fm 25 November 2015 08: 03 New
    +1
    4. "It was stated that the Su-24 was not equipped with a missile launch detection system."
    When the system detects a missile launch, it will be late. All Su-24s have a radiation warning station that precedes the detection of a missile launch. Another thing is that there were no service specialists at these stations and usually they attach little importance to them. And on TV they show us gunsmiths hanging bombs, and this is the hundredth part of preparing the aircraft