Military Review

Red, white, green

112
Red, white, green



The civil war in Russia has become a tragedy for the entire population of the country. The confrontation encompassed all segments of the population, entered into every home. Kuban was not an exception, where the confrontation involved the Cossack and non-resident population. The first battles took place in early January, 1918, near the city of Ekaterinodar and ended with the defeat of Bolshevik supporters. In January, 2018 will mark 100 years since the start of this tragedy.

I do not pretend to consider in detail all aspects related to those distant events, but I will try to examine the readiness of the military units of the opposing sides at the initial stage of confrontation. It should be noted that at this time interval, the confrontation engulfed the soldiers' masses, who were mainly on the side of the Bolsheviks, and the Cossack formations, who were trying to resist the aspirations of the leaders of the Bolsheviks. The Kuban Cossacks did not yet understand the threats that arose in front of him as one of the estates to be liquidated, and tried to defend their traditional rights. Unfortunately, it was expensive.



Black Sea was the first under the rule of the Bolsheviks. In this regard, the Kuban Regional Food Committee refused to send convoys with grain to Novorossiysk, which served to increase anti-Kazach sentiment, although the committee was not Cossack in composition.

The Bolsheviks, guided by the decisions developed at the first conference of the party organizations of the Kuban and the Black Sea region, held on November 25-26 on November 1917 in Novorossiysk, focused on the formation of the Red Guard detachments and the strengthening of work in military units returning from the front. The head of the Bolsheviks, A.A. Yakovlev offered to go to Trabzon for troops, to immediately move to the Kuban. This decision was unanimously made.

At the end of December 1917, meetings of military workers were held in the villages of Crimean and Primorsko-Akhtarskaya. They make decisions on the transition to active struggle with the regional government. By the end of 1917, the power of the Kuban government extended only to Ekaterinodar and the villages closest to it.

The 1917-1918 events have shown the inability of the democratic forces in the region to resolve economic and political issues by peaceful means. Around the issue of land, passions were seething, but it was resolved only in favor of the Cossack part of the population, which meant attempts to establish a dictatorship. Rent speculation has deepened the split in society. The intensity of political passions led to the fact that most political parties and movements saw the possibility of their existence only in support on an armed basis. The process of militarization of parties began. From local clashes, the parties shifted to a large-scale civil war.

January 12 The 1918 of the year in the stanitsa of the Crimea by the Bolsheviks decided on the assault of Ekaterinodar. Their forces, according to the chieftain Vyacheslav Naumenko, were up to 4000 people. The provincial government could oppose them around 600 fighters with four guns.

The opposing side was not idle. I will give an assessment of the historian D.E. Skobtseva: “A member of the government for military affairs N.M. Ouspensky began to put together parts of Kuban volunteers. In a hurry, he conducted a provision on service in the Kuban volunteer detachments through the Government Council. A decent content was determined for the volunteers, the military regulations were adjusted, the regulation on order production, on discipline, on revolutionary field courts, etc. was revised. ”

The active formation phase of the first divisions began. The author mentioned above noted: “By the end of the Christmas time, there were already several Kuban volunteer detachments that took the name of their chiefs: troop foreman Golaev, Colonel Demenik and others. At the same time, the initiative and popularity of bosses was of great importance.

At the end of January, the 1918 of the year, under Enem and the Gheorghe-Afipsky struggle, assumed a large-scale character. Skobtsev noted: “... three directions of the Bolshevik offensive on Yekaterinodar were defined: the Caucasus, the Tikhoretsk and the Novorossiysk — along the main railway lines. At first, Novorossiysk turned out to be the most stormy - led by “the Minister of War of the Novorossiysk Republic,” Ensign Seradze. The battle began at the very approach to Ekaterinodar, at the junction Enem. Galaev and Pokrovsky came out against Sieradze.

In the first battle under the station Enem the Bolsheviks suffered a serious defeat. During the battle, military foreman P.A. Galaev shot the Junior Red Guard commander Alexander Yakovlev and was immediately killed himself. An interesting fact is that Yakovlev during the First World War served as a supplier of uniforms for the needs of the army and was not a professional commander. During one of his trips in the area of ​​the city of Molodechko, a grenade flew into the window of the carriage where he was stationed, the junker was wounded, and then he was treated on the Black Sea coast. After the events of 1917, he was sent by the Bolsheviks to Novorossiysk.

The second fight also had no success. Appointed instead of Yakovlev, left SR, Ensign Sieradze was captured and died of wounds in a military hospital.

In Novorossiysk, several armored trains were prepared for an offensive against the capital of the Kuban. The number of Red Army men, according to Soviet and émigré specialists, was about 4000 people. Supporters of the regional government threw no more than 600 Cossacks against this group. A Cossack cavalry and several guns were thrown against the armored trains.

The result of this operation is impressive. The Red Guard on armored trains with artillery was defeated, and most of its participants fled: “The Bolsheviks fled, leaving numerous trophies and the mortally wounded commander Seridze on the battlefield. Here, in a battle near the departure of Enem, a girl - ensign Barkhash died. Pokrovsky was a triumph of the Cesarean type. ”

Thus, it turned out that the Cossacks were more prepared for the conduct of hostilities, and the Cossacks had a much higher motive for defending their land. In addition, the level of commander training among the leaders of the Bolsheviks was very doubtful.

By the performance of the Bolsheviks, the population of the Kuban reacted negatively. The gathering of the inhabitants of the village of Pashkovsky condemned this action. The Cossacks of the villages of Voronezh, Platnirovskaya, Novotitarovskaya and others expressed their support for the regional government. The villagers of Kushchevskaya refused to submit to the authority of the soviets.

The first attempt of supporters of the Bolsheviks to seize power in the capital of Kuban failed. A new phase of the escalation of the civil war has begun. To resupply weapons the Novorossiysk Executive Committee continued disarming the parts of the Caucasian front that were passing through the city.

An attempt to agitate among seven thousand soldiers in the capital of the Black Sea province about the second appearance led to a split in their ranks. Soldiers of the 22nd Varnavinsky regiment and 41st artillery division agreed to participate in the struggle against the regional government. An active role was played by the sailors of the Black Sea fleet. At the request of the Novorossiysk Committee of the Bolsheviks, a detachment F.M. arrived from Crimea Karnau-Grushevsky.

The Kuban-Black Sea Military Revolutionary Committee received weapons from the Military Revolutionary Committee of the Caucasian Army, the Central Executive Committee of the Navy from Kerch, Sevastopol, Odessa. Communication was established with Armavir and Tikhoretskaya for the formation of a new front against Ekaterinodar.

The base of armed resources for the new assault on the Kuban capital was created. And support was carried out in all directions. Supporters of the Cossacks did not have such a broad base, the industrial areas of Russia were under the control of the Bolsheviks. There were no ammunition, small arms, ammunition, military equipment and ammunition.

On the one hand, we see excellent team cadres among the opponents of the Bolsheviks, and on the other, the lack of material support for the hostilities.

The situation among the supporters of the Bolsheviks was completely opposite. And the time was not long in coming, the next stage of the armed confrontation began, which ended in the spring of 1918, with the defeat of the anti-Bolshevik coalition in the Kuban. The process of accumulation of forces began again, which grew into a confrontation in the summer of 1918, when the Volunteer Army together with units of the Kuban Cossacks took complete control of the territory of the former Kuban region.



White-green 20-ies

Most of the Kuban, tired of the war, supported the Bolsheviks in the spring of 1920, the year. Peasants and workers joyfully greeted the Red Army, and the Cossacks maintained a benevolent neutrality. Piluk and Savitsky, the leaders of the “Green Army” who rebelled against Denikin, hoped for the moderation of the Bolsheviks, the agreement of the socialist parties, the granting of autonomy to the Cossack regions. It seemed to them that the Bolsheviks would not introduce a system of military communism in the Kuban. A peculiar situation arose in the Sochi and Tuapse districts, where the Committee for the Liberation of the Black Sea Region, headed by Social Revolutionary Voronovich, created the Black Sea Peasant Republic, fighting against both the Volunteer and Red Army.

In the spring of 1920, only a handful continued the struggle against the Bolsheviks. But by May 1920, the introduction of labor obligations and surplus, the redistribution of Cossack lands and lawless reprisals, the ban on the participation of the kulaks in the elections heightened the atmosphere. At the end of April, the 14-I cavalry division of the 1-th Cavalry Army, formed mainly from former whites, revolted. Knowing about the direction against Wrangel, the division raised a riot in the village of Umanskaya with the call “Down with war, down with the commune!” Near the village of Kushchevskaya, the rebels, led by Colonel Sukhenko, were defeated and scattered.



The anti-Bolshevik movement was a wide spectrum of forces. There were agents of foreign states and criminals, a protracted war demoralized many and devalued life. But it is wrong to disregard the heterogeneity and complex alignment of the rebels. The reason for reflection is the opinion of the political worker 1 of the Cavalry Cavalry Army: “Pure banditry is a feature of very few small detachments that have nothing to do with large political organizations.”

The social composition of the white-green was difficult. Usually, officers or Cossacks headed the detachments; there were many former soldiers of the Volunteer Army, refugees from Central Russia. During the seizure of the villages, all Cossacks of military age were mobilized. Relations between the groups of “white-green” are contradictory, they rallied the hatred of Soviet power.



An accurate estimate of the number of rebels, their location and equipment is difficult. The special department of the Caucasian Front believed that the number of large “white-green” units for June-6 in July 1920 increased in the south from 5400 to 13 100 people in 36 units with 50 machine guns and 12 guns. The historian Stepanenko summarized the data; according to him, in August 1920, the counter-revolutionary forces on the Don, Kuban and Terek reached 30 000 people. Military operations had a seasonal rhythm, fading at the time of the sowing season and the harvest, inflaming in autumn and early spring. The next peak of speeches falls on February-March of 1921, the period of aggravation of the food crisis and the turning point in the policy of the RCP (b).
The main centers of the insurgency were Zakubanie (dislocation of the Russian Revival Army), Priazovye (Wrangel landings), Sochi district.

In mid-April, General Fostikov began to create a Plastun regiment and a cavalry brigade near Maikop in 1920. In July, a spontaneous rebellion, caused by the development and seizure of ¾ stocks of hay, swept the stanitsa of the Labinsky department. On July 18, Colonel Shevtsov with a detachment in 600, the sabers captured the village of Prochnopopskaya and announced the mobilization of the Cossacks. The joint forces of the “white-green” Labinsky, Batalpashinsky and Maikop departments reached in mid-July 11 400 people with 55 machine guns and 6 guns.

July 23 military sergeant Fartukov restored ataman rule in the mountainous area of ​​the Maikop department.

The rising insurgencies forced to ask for military assistance. On August 1, the SNK of the RSFSR, the Central Committee of the RCP (b) and the Cheka received a telegram from the Caucasian Bureau of the Central Committee: “The whole Kuban is in revolts. There are detachments led by a single hand - Wrangel agents. Green squads are growing and expanding significantly with the end of the hot pores of field work - around 15 August. In the case of non-liquidation of Wrangel for a short time, we risk temporarily losing the North Caucasus. ”

The authorities took tough measures. 29 July 1920 was issued an order number 1247 on the troops of the Caucasus Front, signed by Trifonov and Gittis. By August 15 residents were obliged to surrender their weapons on pain of confiscation of property and execution on the spot. The same punishment was established for leaving in gangs, promoting "green" or their harboring. The rebels' villages were subject to pacification "by the most decisive and merciless measures, up to and including their complete ruin and destruction."
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 14 July 2016 07: 32
    +11
    A one-sided article ... In Anapa, Krymsk .. there are red-green streets .. and the article does not mention them .. I mean red-green partisans .. Further .. the campaign of the Taman Red Army .. I recall with the Red Army, fleeing the repression of thousands of civilians .. and the poorest Cossacks and nonresident .. In our city, there is a monument to the heroes of the Taman army, several times the authorities wanted to demolish it .. We stayed .. the last 10 years .. silence .. kinda calmed down ..
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 14 July 2016 09: 08
      +4
      Yes, I myself lived in Anapa on Krasno-Zelenykh Street and the museum told me that they were blockaded and entered the city together. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend!" But overall the article is good. But you have to put your signatures. This is an elementary requirement for the design of a printed work. And if there is no information - search, or do not post a photo. And then you will not understand - it is red, green or blue!
      At the top photo, pay attention to the bayonets on the rifles!
      1. AK64
        AK64 14 July 2016 12: 12
        +3
        At the top photo, pay attention to the bayonets on the rifles!

        Arisaki

        Why rifles, why not boots?
        Tsarist rally soldiers, mind you seeeb, in boots. But a year and a half later, the same soldiers marching in their bast boots --- dominated, meaning
      2. 97110
        97110 14 July 2016 18: 54
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        At the top photo, pay attention to the bayonets on the rifles!

        Arisaki?
    2. 97110
      97110 14 July 2016 18: 38
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      One-sided article ..

      I agree. Amazed by the phrase of the Author
      The events of 1917-1918 showed the inability of the region’s democratic forces
      Like the Americans were not in the South yet, but was there democracy? Clearly anti-Soviet publication. Ah, how sorry the Author is that the power of the American people (i.e. democracy) was not established in 1918.
  2. Basil50
    Basil50 14 July 2016 07: 33
    +2
    All the * anti Bolsheviks * that were in history got along very well among themselves, despite minor disagreements. These are all sorts of * anti ... * then they served the Germans with their whole * soul *. It is time for those who seek the government to realize that they will never be forgiven by the descendants of * the former * that OUR ancestors threw away parasites and rebuilt the SOVIET UNION themselves and then broke the ridge to the Nazi * European integrators *. And in this article not a word about what methods * fought * against the SOVIET AUTHORITY. After all, interestingly, the Reds tried * to establish * life and feed people, but all sorts of * anti .. * * only cared about themselves and their masters.
    1. pokermen
      pokermen 14 July 2016 07: 45
      +1
      Quote: Vasily50
      After all, interestingly, the Reds tried * to establish * life and feed people, but all sorts of * anti .. * * only cared about themselves and their masters.

      Lol Stop at the old cemeteries that have still been preserved and look at the number of graves with the death date of 1933. This is not counting the tens of thousands of dead in the steppes of Kazakhstan and Siberia.
      They tried to feed
      1. Uncle Murzik
        Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 14: 26
        +3
        The famine of 1905, struck 22 provinces, including four non-chernozem ones - Pskov, Novgorod, Vitebsk, Kostroma. Famine was observed in a number of places in 1906, 1907 and in 1908. This famine was accompanied by a sharp increase in the incidence. The number of diseases only scurvy from 1905 to 1907 increased by 528%.

        One of the most terrible and large-scale hunger periods were 1891–1892. Then, by famine, 16 provinces of European Russia (and the province of Tobolskaya in Siberia) with a population of 35 million people were comprehended; Voronezh, Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Samara, Tambov provinces were especially affected. In the Volga region, the eastern regions of the chernozem zone, 20 provinces with a 40 millionth peasant population, suffered from a catastrophic famine. In a less extensive area, but with no less disaster, hunger repeated in 1892-1893. Surrogates were widely used in 1891 to combat malnutrition. In some places, before government assistance arrived, quinoa was considered a luxury.

        In the XX century. the famine of 1901 struck 17 provinces of the center; according to the report for 1901: "In the winter of 1900/01, 42 million people went hungry, but 2 million 813 thousand Orthodox souls died."

        And in 1911 (already after the so boasted Stolypin reforms): "32 million were starving, 1 million 613 thousand people were lost." Moreover, in each report it was emphasized that the information was compiled on the basis of data supplied by churches, as well as rural elders and managers of landowner estates. And how many deaf villages were there?
        1. pokermen
          pokermen 14 July 2016 15: 27
          -2
          Do not confuse crop failures with artificially provoked hunger 30x
          1. Mother CheeseEarth
            Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 17: 33
            +3
            Quote: pokermen
            Do not confuse crop failures with artificially provoked hunger 30x

            Right. And one should not confuse hunger with "malnutrition", if only because the authors do not give an exact definition of "malnutrition" (in calories or kilograms of bread), but then we can say that many people in the USSR (especially soldiers and students) " malnourished, "even in the 70s.
        2. Mother CheeseEarth
          Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 17: 31
          +3
          Quote: Uncle Murzik
          The famine of 1905, struck 22 provinces, including four non-chernozem

          Quote from the book "Holodomor in Russia", author Sigismund Sigismundovich Mironov, aka A. Mironov, all these names are pseudonyms, the real name of the author is not known.
          Wikipedia subtly hints that topics published under a pseudonym enjoy the support of representatives of “left” patriotic journalism, but are criticized by representatives of academic science.
          Total, you can not read further!
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 23: 20
            -1
            "Wikipedia subtly hints that the topics published under a pseudonym enjoy the support of representatives of the" left "patriotic journalism, but are criticized by representatives of academic science." Well, give a link, or again your "fantasies" to put it mildly. belay and wikipedia has become an objective source laughing
          2. alexej123
            alexej123 11 October 2016 17: 29
            0
            I advise you once again - google "Black boards of the Kuban villages". There was also an artificial famine. It was during this period that my mother's family suffered. Our village was on these "boards". This is not why I say that "the Reds are to blame" - this is the history of our country as it is, without embellishment and it should not be distorted or hushed up.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. tatra
        tatra 14 July 2016 16: 52
        +1
        Quote: pokermen
        They tried to feed

        Yes, the Bolsheviks tried to feed, namely the enemies of the Bolsheviks, deliberately deprived the Soviet people of food.
        They massively destroyed grain and livestock, sabotaged work on collective farms, and stole "three ears of corn" from the people in sacks and poods.
        1. pokermen
          pokermen 14 July 2016 17: 07
          +3
          Yes, yes, we already realized that our ancestors were dying of hunger only because of their own greed.

          Not earlier than August 6, 1930:
          ... Force the export of bread with might and main. This is now the nail. If we take out the bread, there will be loans.

          Not earlier than August 23, 1930:
          ... force the removal of bread with all his might ...

          August 24, 1930:
          ... raise (now) the rate of daily export ... Otherwise, we risk being left without our new metallurgical and machine-building (Avtozavod, Chelyabzavod, etc.) plants. ... one must have currency reserves. ... we don’t have them.
          ... you need to furiously speed up the export of bread ...

          Letters to I. V. Stalin to V. M. Molotov 1925-1936, Moscow, “Young Russia, 1995, pp. 193-194, 198, 203-204
          1. tatra
            tatra 14 July 2016 17: 19
            +1
            Quote: pokermen
            August 24, 1930:

            What does 1930 have to do with it? You, the enemies of the communists, seriously expose for the "achievement" of the bourgeois, the large export of food from the chronically starving Russian Empire.
            And in this case, and in the case of the famine of 1932-1933, you are lying and disingenuous for the BENEFIT, in your anti-Soviet propaganda, which you have been trying to justify your capture of the USSR from the late 80s.
            1. pokermen
              pokermen 14 July 2016 17: 46
              +1

              What does 1930 have to do with it? You, the enemies of the communists, seriously expose for the "achievement" of the bourgeois, the large export of food from the chronically starving Russian Empire.
              And in this case, and in the case of the famine of 1932-1933, you are lying and disingenuous for the BENEFIT, in your anti-Soviet propaganda, which you have been trying to justify your capture of the USSR from the late 80s.

              With logic, you have absolutely trouble.
              If you increase the export of wheat by 27 times compared to 1929 and not reduce it for 2 years, this will not cause hunger .... no lol
              1. tatra
                tatra 14 July 2016 17: 54
                +1
                Quote: pokermen
                If you increase wheat exports by 27 times since 1929 and not reduce it for 2 years, this will not cause hunger .... no

                Ha, this is exactly your trouble with logic.
                Putinodes export grain from Russia many times more than eltsinoids, and where is the famine?
                1. pokermen
                  pokermen 14 July 2016 18: 07
                  +1
                  What is the relationship?
                  You have to checkfool you obviously already have paranoia
                  1. veteran66
                    veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: pokermen
                    you obviously already have paranoia

                    "As our chief says - if a person, then this is for a long time! (C)
        2. veteran66
          veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 22
          +1
          Quote: tatra
          , stole from the people "three spikelets"

          according to the law "on three spikelets", the very collective farmers who tried to feed their children in the collective farm-Soviet paradise were sitting.
          Quote: tatra
          "three spikelets" in bags and poods

          Do you even turn on the brain and realize your quote "three spikelets or poods"?
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 14 July 2016 08: 37
      +3
      A lot of things can be said about the Cossacks, a lot of things happened, but the fact that the bulk of the Cossacks fought FOR THE SOVIET POWER is a fact.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 14 July 2016 11: 02
        +3
        Quote: Vasily50
        the bulk of the Cossacks fought FOR SOVIET AUTHORITY is a fact.

        Drive nonsense, dear! Put the Cossacks out of the brackets: Don, Kuban, Orenburg, Semirechye, Transbaikal, Ussuri and white then do not see under a microscope!
        Re-read Sholokhov's "Quiet Don" about the Upper Don uprising and m. the clearing in your mind will come.
        1. Rastas
          Rastas 14 July 2016 11: 23
          +8
          Let's be honest, the Cossacks fought not for the Tsar or the Fatherland, but for their own freemen, what was happening there in the rest of Russia did not really bother them, so long as their land did not become national. For the rest of Russia they were mostly arrogant and contemptuous. If I have two great-grandfathers, both were Cossacks - one Kuban, the other Terek. In the same "Quiet Don" Grigory's father says to his son: Think about it, Grishka, smelly Russia should not rule here. "
          1. Mother CheeseEarth
            Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 11: 36
            0
            Quote: Rastas
            Let's be honest, the Cossacks fought not for the tsar or the Fatherland, but for their own freemen

            You will not believe it, but everyone fought for the civilian for themselves.
            One, after the Bolshevik coup, there was nothing to eat, because the Bolsheviks "pumped out" bread.
            The latter, on the contrary, went to the Red Army (being unemployed and landless before) received food and bonuses "for the hanged" there.
            But everyone didn’t care about ideology, 99% of the Communists knew neither the party’s program, nor the foundations of communist ideology, they simply fought on the side on which they had more attractive prospects.
            1. Cat
              Cat 14 July 2016 18: 26
              +1
              Dear ones, do not go to extremes. The civil war divided the country, the Cossacks, workers and peasants, everyone and everyone and everyone against everyone. My first great-grandfather was a Cossack, fought for the Reds, after the nepe was repressed. The second great-grandfather was a mayor and managed to fight for both. The third great-grandfather did not fight at the Ural plant. The fourth blacksmith "dam" at the Atigsky plant fought for the whites, deserted, served in the NKVD in the thirties, was the chairman of the Selkom, and his son dug the Belomorkanal. Here's a tangle.
              And you about white, red ..?
        2. MrK
          MrK 14 July 2016 14: 43
          +3
          Quote: V.ic
          Drive nonsense, dear!


          And sixteen Cossack divisions in the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War, is that nonsense too?
          And the Cossack guard of honor at the congress of the CPSU (b) behind Stalin’s back in the 1939 year is also nonsense.
          1. Mother CheeseEarth
            Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 17: 34
            +2
            Quote: mrark
            And the Cossack guard of honor at the congress of the CPSU (b) behind Stalin’s back in the 1939 year is also nonsense.

            Yes. This is "disguised nonsense."
            1. AK64
              AK64 14 July 2016 18: 36
              +3
              Quote: mrark
              And the Cossack guard of honor at the congress of the CPSU (b) behind Stalin’s back in the 1939 year is also nonsense.


              Yes. This is "disguised nonsense."

              Cossacks is something else ...
              There the miners stood right with the jackhammers.
              Imagine a picture: a congress - and there miners with jackhammers are standing --- the congress came to greet, to mean. Say, the unity of the party and the working people. And what about jackhammers with you - so, right from the face, right from the shift ... We had no time to take the hammers home, we were in a hurry.

              By God, I didn’t come up with this - those who wish, with some perseverance, can even find foty of this circus.
          2. veteran66
            veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 32
            0
            Quote: mrark
            And sixteen Cossack divisions in the Red Army

            You do not confuse the name of the unit or compound with the real state of affairs. In Soviet times, everyone had their own farmsteads, horses, sabers with rifles in the hallway hanging ... yeah, wait! What happened after the civilian with the Cossacks is nothing but mummers.
        3. dkflbvbh
          dkflbvbh 14 July 2016 15: 58
          +1
          My uncle fell for the Reds and my grandfather fought for them ... ...... A native of Art. Uncle.

          So there was no need to roll a barrel to the Cossacks ... Everyone needed a zemlitsa ...
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 34
            +1
            Quote: dkflbvbh
            no need to roll a barrel to the Cossacks.

            nobody rolls at the Cossacks, but those who were for the whites were still prettier to me.
      2. AK64
        AK64 14 July 2016 12: 16
        +2
        the bulk of the Cossacks fought FOR SOVIET AUTHORITY is a fact.

        Have fun ...
        The Civil War is to a large extent the war of Moscow against the Cossacks
      3. veteran66
        veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 27
        +4
        Quote: Vasily50
        the bulk of the Cossacks fought FOR SOVIET AUTHORITY is a fact.

        The fact is that the Bolsheviks told the Cossacks, destroying them as a class. And this fact speaks for itself (for whom the Cossacks fought)
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 22: 25
          +1
          The atrocities of Ataman Annenkov in 1917-1921 - Not at all an invention of Soviet propaganda, white memoirists also testify to this. In total, the Annenkov Cossacks destroyed more than 85 thousand inhabitants of the Urals and Siberia. In terms of cruelty and sadism in the white army, they had no equal.
          For comparison, the chieftain Kaledin shot 45 thousand workers, peasants and Cossacks. And 30 thousand Cossacks, by his decree, were deprived of the Cossack rank and were evicted from the territory of the Don.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  3. V.ic
    V.ic 14 July 2016 08: 03
    -3
    There was no place for the Cossacks, as a military estate, in a state led by the Trotskyists. Dumenko Boris Mokeevich, Mironov Philip Kuzmich did not understand this ...
    1. tatra
      tatra 14 July 2016 17: 33
      +1
      Quote: V.ic
      There was no place for Cossacks as a military estate in a state led by the Trotskyists

      But there was a place in the lackeys of the occupiers of Soviet Russia and the USSR-Germans. A fragment of the interrogation of the arrested Krasnov.
      Ulrich: -Do you agree that your letter to Kaiser Wilhelm from 1918 resembles your appeal from 1944?
      Krasnov: Yes, that’s right, we were looking for allies in the face of the German Empire, and later of fascist Germany.
      Ulrich: - So you had an alliance with German imperialism?
      Krasnov: Yes, of course, that is the case, we have had such a union since 1917.
      1. veteran66
        veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 42
        -2
        Quote: tatra
        we were looking for allies in the face of the German Empire

        the same answer would have been given during interrogation (if it had taken place) Lenin and his henchmen. After all, it was they (as Soviet history textbooks write) who corrupted the Russian army with their agitators, urging them to turn bayonets against tsarism (legal authority), it was they who carried out the October revolution with German money and with the help of the German General Staff, and then concluded a separate peace with Germany on enslaving conditions .... And mind you, they were citizens of the Republic of Ingushetia, and Krasnov was not a citizen of the USSR. So who are their worst?
        1. AK64
          AK64 14 July 2016 20: 09
          +2
          the same answer would have been given during interrogation (if it had taken place) Lenin and his henchmen. After all, it was they (as Soviet history textbooks write) who corrupted the Russian army with their agitators, urging them to turn bayonets against tsarism (legal authority), it was they who carried out the October revolution with German money and with the help of the German General Staff, and then concluded a separate peace with Germany on enslaving conditions .... And mind you, they were citizens of the Republic of Ingushetia, and Krasnov was not a citizen of the USSR. So who are their worst?


          By the way, Ulrich is frankly lying.

          Well, that is, it is clear that Ulrich is not an investigator, but just looking for an excuse to hang. But he lies a lot.

          The fact is that Krasnov had one "appeal", and it is dated ... June 22, 1941. There was no "1944 proclamation" in nature. And Ulrich, and even more so Krasnov himself, could not help knowing this.

          Such here price these "protocols"

          Well, with the return: the Germans didn’t like this calling of Krasnov, first of all, the Germans didn’t at all have such a future, they were not going to do for Russia what the Russians did for Prussia in 1813.
          Therefore, the Germans banned the publication of this appeal. And it was published only in 1943, and in the summer, when in fact it was too late to drink Borjomi, and the appeal itself looked completely ridiculous (and Krasnov was thus made the most complete fool).
          But still, even in this Ulrich lied: the Germans published an appeal in 1943, and not in the 44th, as he claims.
  4. Army soldier2
    Army soldier2 14 July 2016 09: 41
    -1
    I somehow do not like the term "White-green"... Still, the “greens”, unlike the “whites,” were not guided by any ideology.
    1. Mother CheeseEarth
      Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 10: 12
      -5
      Quote: Army 2
      Still, the “greens”, unlike the “whites,” were not guided by any ideology.

      And what else do you think they needed an ideology if, after the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks, people had nothing to eat corny ?! There is no time for ideology; here, first, the red plague must be knocked out, and after AT THE ELECTIONS and politics can be discussed.
      1. Parsec
        Parsec 14 July 2016 11: 38
        +2
        Quote: Mother CheeseEarth
        after the Bolsheviks seized power, did people have nothing to eat corny?


        After does not mean consequence.

        "For the first time the surplus appropriation system was introduced in the Russian Empire on December 2, 1916, at the same time the previously existing system of public procurement on the free market was preserved.
        In connection with the low receipt of grain by state procurements and surplus appropriation, on March 25 (April 7), 1917, the Provisional Government introduced a grain monopoly, which assumed the transfer of the entire volume of grain produced minus the established consumption rates for personal and economic needs. "

        Oh, such a White Guard, such an anti-Bolshevik, but you don’t know elementary things or are lying purposefully.
        1. Mother CheeseEarth
          Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 12: 24
          +2
          Quote: Parsec
          The first surplus was introduced in the Russian Empire on December 2, 1916

          I am glad that you were able to read and copy the paragraph from Wikipedia. But I'm sorry that you could not read the entire article and follow the links.
          Now on.
          1. In 2016, the Republic of Ingushetia was at war, not at all there, but 1MB! Suffice it to recall that in 1MB almost all countries introduced a card system, including even countries such as the United States and neutral Sweden! And RI also introduced, in some provinces, certain types of food, for example sugar, because its main production was in Poland.
          Accordingly, the question is, why did the Bolsheviks need a surplus appraisal if they shamefully left the WWII war ?!
          2. The surplus surplus surplus disagreement.
          Under the tsar, as you rightly write, "the system of public procurement in the free market that had been in force was also preserved." And at the same time, not only state purchases, but generally free circulation of food in the free market.
          More precisely, because of increased food prices (war), the state established PLAN for purchases limited amount pre-war food prices. Hoping for patriotism, and for the most part he justified himself.
          And the Bolsheviks simply abolished the free market and obliged ALL to hand over grain to the state free of charge.
          What is called, feel the difference!
          1. Parsec
            Parsec 14 July 2016 12: 52
            +1
            You do not want to understand the essence of the subject in your amusing White Guard.

            Quote: Mother CheeseEarth
            Food Survey Food Survey is different.

            What is it?

            Quote: Mother CheeseEarth
            the state has established a PLAN for the purchase of a limited amount of food at pre-war prices. Hoping for patriotism, and for the most part he justified himself.


            I gave the quote above: In connection low bread on state procurement and surplus appraisal March 25 (April 7) 1917 Provisional Government introduced a bread monopolyinvolving transmission total bread produced minus established consumption standards for personal and household needs.

            Here is such patriotism, here is such freedom of trade.
            Under the tsar, under the tsar ... You are trying to pull the Bolsheviks to starvation, and stupidly like that.
            1. Mother CheeseEarth
              Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 13: 12
              +1
              Quote: Parsec
              I gave the quote above:

              I wrote above that "I am sorry that you could not read the entire article and follow the links." Then no questions would be asked
              Quote: Parsec
              What is it?

              But I will explain.
              1. The interim government is no longer a king, it is after the king, it is almost anarchy.
              2. The interim government was nevertheless at war!
              (the Bolsheviks again, I remind you, no)
              3. In Wikipedia (from where the quote was inserted) you can read that according to the "Law on the transfer of grain to the state, the entire amount of bread, food and fodder harvest of past years, 1916 and the future harvest of 1917, less the stock necessary for food and household needs of the ownercomes from the time the bread is registered, at the disposal of the state at solid prices and can be alienated only through the state food authorities. "
              Translated into ours, this meant that the state introduced a monopoly on the trade in bread, at fixed prices.
              NOBODY KILLED ANYONE AT THIS AND THE WHOLE BREAD WAS NOT TAKEN FOR FREE!
              Moreover, many peasants, taking advantage of the imperfection of the state machine, concealed most of the food produced and were threatened with it .... forced seizure of excess bread with payment of half of the original cost.
              And the Bolsheviks just came and took away, without money, everything. And I don't like it, they killed, and after that you ask "what's the difference"?
              1. Parsec
                Parsec 14 July 2016 13: 50
                -1
                And you think why the peasants did not want to sell bread to the interim government in the usual way, for money. And for the money, they had to withdraw, for the money, but to withdraw.

                Is it because the money was worthless?

                The same situation was with the Bolsheviks, but it developed even more steeply - deserters from the front were added in the villages, embittered, armed, illiterate, but who knew perfectly well that in conditions of hunger one could ask for any price. People also wanted "in a zhulet and with a gramakhvon."

                The emergency required emergency measures. Whenever possible, the city supplied goods in exchange for grain, and the power permitted the sacking.

                But the goods weren’t always there - the liberals taxed to the collapse.
                1. pokermen
                  pokermen 14 July 2016 13: 57
                  +1
                  Only for some reason, a mass famine of 21-22g and 32-33g with millions of dead and cannibalism, not under the interim government and not under the king, happened. Or are the peasants themselves to blame?
                  1. Parsec
                    Parsec 14 July 2016 14: 43
                    +3
                    Quote: pokermen
                    Only for some reason, a mass famine of 21-22g and 32-33g with millions of dead and cannibalism, not under the interim government and not under the king, happened.


                    "In 1842, the government stated that crop failures are repeated every 6-7 years, lasting two years in a row. During the second half of the 1873th century, famines caused by crop failures in 1880, 1883 and 1891 were particularly cruel. In 1892-16, there were famines 35 provinces of European Russia and the province of Tobolsk) with a population of 20 million were comprehended; Voronezh, Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Samara, Tambov provinces were especially affected.In the Volga region, the eastern regions of the black earth zone - 40 provinces with a 1892 million peasant population - suffered from catastrophic famine. In a less extensive area, but with no less intensity of the disaster, the famine was repeated in 1893-XNUMX. "

                    "In 1901 - 1902 49 provinces went hungry: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 - 1,6%.
                    In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
                    In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
                    On the verge of death were 30 million people. "\
                    "According to various estimates, in 1901-1912 about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences."

                    This is with the kings.

                    The situation inside the empire is blissful, a system of bread shops with Alexander I exists, and hunger and death are in full growth. All of Russia is a zone of risky agriculture, and with semi-subsistence or subsistence farming extremely risky agriculture.

                    And here is 1921, the consequences of two wars - world and civil, plus a severe drought.
                    The country is destroyed, there are no stocks.
                    The tsarist government in times of famine could not cope with the help of the affected areas under working state structures, without the Bolsheviks and military communism - no one remembered.
                    The RSFSR in the same situation - and howling from earth to heaven about the special atrocious nature of the Bolsheviks.
                    1. pokermen
                      pokermen 14 July 2016 15: 01
                      0
                      There were always crop failures, but in the years 31-33 there was no drought. And the worst famine swept from Ukraine to Siberia. And it began thanks to grain procurement and the subsequent mass export of grain
                      1. Parsec
                        Parsec 14 July 2016 15: 33
                        -1
                        And, smoothly pull up to the "famine".

                        http://supernovum.ru/article/252

                        Here in the details.
                      2. pokermen
                        pokermen 14 July 2016 15: 55
                        -1
                        Why should I read something, if I can already tell everything.
                        In the early 30s, people began to be massively confiscated, in favor of the state, horses and oxen. And since all the reapers of those times were horse-drawn, they had to be harvested manually, the grain was stored only for sowing and food, part of the crop was lost in the field. But this was of little interest to the grain procurers, all wheat was taken for export, and the Cossacks were sent by whole villages.
                        My great-great-grandfather with 8 children was sent to Kazakhstan, only the great-great-grandmother and 3 children returned back, the rest all perished in the Kazakh steppes.
                        Tractors began to appear only after the 33rd, my other great-grandfather worked as a tractor driver until the war, they were not even taken into the army.

                        Here is such a story. Now you can write that hunger was not artificial.
                      3. Parsec
                        Parsec 14 July 2016 17: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: pokermen
                        Why should I read something, if I can already tell everything.


                        Is the earth flat?
                      4. pokermen
                        pokermen 14 July 2016 17: 27
                        +2
                        Is the earth flat?

                        You then from the Moscow village know better how everything happened,what than us in the field
                      5. Parsec
                        Parsec 14 July 2016 18: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: pokermen
                        You then know better from the Moscow village how everything happened than to us locally


                        What do you see on the ground today?

                        Asphalt peasants, office Cossacks - you don’t understand anything in agriculture, especially in economics, the story is based on foggy tales of relatives, but he doesn’t need to read anything there, and so he knows everything.

                        So flat land?
                        If round, how did you find out, unreadable?
                      6. pokermen
                        pokermen 14 July 2016 21: 08
                        0
                        It burns weakly.
                        My ancestors have been living on this earth since 1810. and who do you think I will believe ??? direct participants in those events or the next Vasya Pupkin with his theory of conspiracies?

                        By the way, my grandfather says that after the war there was nothing and only survived on the swan and shark. Probably lying? cards probably sold? and starved out of greed? or what is your theory there this time?
                    2. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 23: 21
                      0
                      Yes, I know better from Siberia! hi
                2. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 23: 37
                  +1
                  another lover of crispy rolls, horses and shafts were not seized but socialized, thereby creating collective farms! laughing and the collective farmers and activists and Bolsheviks were dying of hunger! but in Tsarist Russia I don’t remember that the landowners were dying of hunger! hi
            2. tatra
              tatra 14 July 2016 16: 56
              +1
              Quote: pokermen
              subsequent mass export of grain

              And what was this "massive grain export"?
              You, the enemies of the Communists, have always been accustomed to irresponsibly scattering allegations that you cannot justify and prove.
            3. AK64
              AK64 14 July 2016 17: 13
              +3
              And what was this "massive grain export"?
              You, the enemies of the Communists, have always been accustomed to irresponsibly scattering allegations that you cannot justify and prove.

              You, "friends of the communists", do not know how to use Google?
              This is regrettable, of course, although symptomatic.
              But why do you think that if you don’t know something, then everyone else can’t?

              In 1930-1931, 5 million tons of grain were exported per year, however, since 1932, exports began to decline and have not risen since then to 2,1 million tons per year.

              In total, 1930 million tons of grain were exported from the USSR during the 19,5-ies: [3]

              1930 - 4,76 million tons [4]
              1931 - 5,06 million tons [5]
              1932 - 1,73 million tons [6]
              1933 - 1,68 million tons [7]
              1934 - 769 thousand tons [8]
              1935 - 1,52 million tons [9]
              1936 - 321 thousand tons [10]
              1937 - 1,28 million tons [11]
              1938 - 2,05 million tons [12]
              1939 - 277 thousand tons [13]


              Link for "friends of the communists", study:
              Foreign trade of the USSR for 1918-1940 (Statistical Review). Part I Vneshtorgizdat, Moscow. 1960
              http://istmat.info/files/uploads/22117/vneshtorg_1918-1940_chast_1-1.pdf
            4. tatra
              tatra 14 July 2016 17: 39
              +1
              Ha, and you call this "massive"?
              From your chronically starving Russian Empire, your beloved bourgeois exported 10-11 million tons of grain per year.
              You are the enemies of the Communists, destroying two-thirds of cattle in Russia after 1991, export 20-25 million tons of grain per year, and people poison with low-quality bread.
              This is called mass export, and not 1,8 and 1 million tons of grain, exports from the USSR in 7 and 1932.
            5. AK64
              AK64 14 July 2016 17: 58
              +4
              That is, sitting in a puddle with the statement "always" (!) "Accustomed" (!) "Irresponsibly" (!) "Tossing" (!) "Accusations" (!) "Statements that you cannot substantiate and prove" (! ), citizen-comrade-friend of all communists began to wag fillets "but under the king they still sold more".

              And you are right, dear "friend of the communists", under the tsar they really exported much more: in general, under the tsar, it was Russia, and not some kind of USA, that controlled the world grain market.

              And they exported more under the king because ... they produced more.
              Here are the official grain production statistics


              Crop production by years (million tons) [2]
              Years Cereal Raw Cotton Sugar Beet
              1913 92,3 0,42 11,3
              1940 95,6 2,24 18,0
              1945 47,3 1,16 5,5
              1950 81,2 3,5 20,8
              1960 125,5 4,29 57,7
              1965 121,1 5,66 72,3
              1970 186,8 6,89 78,3
              1986 210,0 8,3 79,3

              As you can see, the level of grain production in 1913 was reached only by the 60th. But this is already with a completely different population, and after the virgin land in Kazakhstan.

              In general, I will give advice, and even two:
              (1) learn how to finally use Google, and
              (2) yell quietly
            6. tatra
              tatra 14 July 2016 18: 10
              +1
              Quote: AK64
              As you can see, the level of grain production in 1913 was reached only by the 60th.

              Are you kidding or other fools?
              Here on the graph it is clear that in 1940 the level of grain collection of 1913 in the Republic of Ingushetia was exceeded.
              Maybe you are to blame for the fact that you, the external and internal enemies of the communists, unleashed the war of 1941-1945 against the Soviet people, and destroyed more than 70 thousand villages and villages, 98 thousand collective farms, 1876 state farms, in the "crimes of communism" throw off?
              You do not get used to it.
            7. AK64
              AK64 14 July 2016 18: 30
              +4
              Are you kidding or other fools?
              Here on the graph it is clear that in 1940 the level of grain collection of 1913 in the Republic of Ingushetia was exceeded.

              Well yes, well yes: in one year of 50 by chance already increased. Already by 3%, as much as 3%, Karl!

              True, the population, too, which both produces and eats, was also a little higher - but who considers it?

              And, most importantly, by whom their then count?
        2. AK64
          AK64 14 July 2016 18: 02
          +3
          Rђ RІRѕS,

          Livestock products by years
          Years Cattle (million heads) including cows (million heads) Pigs (million heads) Sheep (million heads) Goats (million heads) Horses (million heads) Meat production (slaughter weight - million .tons) Milk production (million tons)
          1916 58.4 28.8 23 89.7 6.6 38.2 5 29.4
          1941 54.8 28 27.6 80 11.7 21.1 4.7 33.6
          1946 47.6 22.9 10.6 58.5 11.5 10.7 2.6 26.4
          1947 47 23 8.7 57.7 11.6 10.9
          1948 50.1 23.8 9.7 63.3 13.5 11
          1949 54.8 24.2 15.2 70.4 15.2 11.8
          1950 58.1 24.6 22.2 77.6 16 12.7
          1951 57.1 24.3 24.4 82.6 16.4 13.8 35.3
          1952 58.8 24.9 27.1 90.5 17.1 14.7
          1953 56.6 24.3 28.5 94.3 15.6 15.3
          1954 55.8 25.2 33.3 99.8 15.7 15.3
          1955 56.7 26.4 30.9 99 14 14.2
          1956 58.8 27.7 34 103.3 12.9 13
          1957 61.4 29 40.8 108.2 11.6 12.4
          1958 66.8 31.4 44.3 120.2 9.9 11.9
          1959 70.8 33.3 48.7 129.9 9.3 11.5
          1960 74.2 33.9 53.4 136.1 7.9 11
          1961 75.8 34.8 58.7 133 7.3 9.9 8.7 61.7
          1962 82.1 36.3 66.7 137.5 7 9.4
          1963 87 38 70 139.7 6.7 9.1
          1964 85.4 38.3 40.9 133.9 5.6 8.5
          1965 87.2 38.8 52.8 125.2 5.5 7.9
          1966 93.4 40.1 59.6 129.8 5.5 8 10 72.6
          1967 97.1 41.2 58 135.5 5.5 8
          1968 97.2 41.6 50.9 138.4 5.6 8
          1969 95.7 41.2 49 140.6 5.5 8
          1970 95.2 40.5 56.1 130.7 5.1 7.5
          1971 99.2 39.8 67.5 138 5.4 7.4 12.3 83
          1972 102.4 40 71.4 139.9 5.4 7.3
          1973 104 40.6 66.6 139.1 5.6 7.1
          1974 106.3 41.4 70 142.6 5.9 6.8
          1975 109.1 41.9 72.3 145.3 5.9 6.8
          1976 111 41.9 57.9 141.4 5.7 6.4 91
          1977 110.3 42 63.1 139.8 5.5 6
          1978 112.7 42.6 70.5 141 5.6 5.8
          1979 114,1 43 73,5 142,6 5,5 5,7
          1980 115,1 43,3 73,9 143,6 5,8 5,6
          1981 115,1 43,4 73,4 141,6 5,9 5,6 91
          1982 115,9 43,7 73,3 142,4 6,1 5,6
          1983 117,2 43,8 76,7 142,2 6,3 5,6
          1984 119,6 43,9 78,7 145,3 6,5 5,7
          1985 121 43.6 77.9 142.9 6.3 5.8
          1986 120.9 42.9 77.8 140.8 6.5 5.8
          1987 122.1 42.4 79.5 142.2 6.5 5.9 18.1 102.2
          1988 120.6 42 77.4 140.8 6.5 5.9
          1989 119.6 41.8 78.1 140.7 6.8 5.9 107
          1990 118.4 41.7 79 138.4 7 5.9
          1991 115.7 41.5 75.6 133.3 7.3 5.9

          Well, isn't it cute, huh?
          They reached the military level of 1916 (the pre-war of 1913 seems too shy to bring?) They only reached the 60th ...
    2. pokermen
      pokermen 14 July 2016 17: 16
      +1
      Quote: tatra
      Quote: pokermen
      subsequent mass export of grain

      And what was this "massive grain export"?
      You, the enemies of the Communists, have always been accustomed to irresponsibly scattering allegations that you cannot justify and prove.

      Really
      year / thousand tons
      1929 178
      1930 4765
      1931 5057
      1932 1728
      1933 1686
      1934 771
      And then you are offended why in the south we call you Katz * Pami
    3. tatra
      tatra 14 July 2016 17: 44
      +1
      According to the Ukrainian historian Kulchitsky, who worked with the archives of the Communist Party of Ukraine, by April 1933, food aid to Ukraine exceeded 560 thousand tons. In total, the population of the Ukrainian SSR received at least 41,48 million pounds (2,3 million tons) of grain and 40 poods (291 tons) of flour. In addition, 645 million poods (1 thousand tons) of food, a significant amount of cereals and confectionery, sugar, and canned food (from the USSR Council of People's Commissars) were provided.
      On the whole, during the first 6 months of 1933, the Politburo in parts allocated 1,99-2,2 million tons of food to those areas where its shortage was most acute. In February 1933, food aid was provided not only to Ukraine (320 thousand tons), but also to the North Caucasus (290 thousand tons). Food was also sent to the Lower Volga.
  5. Mother CheeseEarth
    Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 17: 45
    +2
    Quote: tatra
    And what was this "massive grain export"?

    And you do not confuse grain exports under the tsar, when the peasants themselves sold surplus grain at market prices, with Bolshevik exports, when the state seized grain from the peasantry for free.
  • Mother CheeseEarth
    Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 17: 44
    +3
    Quote: Parsec
    This is with the kings.

    Under the kings, all years except 1891-1892, absolutely every parish in RI exported bread, with a free market!
    Therefore, what kind of famine can we talk about if the peasants themselves sold surplus grain at free prices and gave export from each province ?! request
  • veteran66
    veteran66 14 July 2016 19: 56
    +1
    Quote: Parsec
    According to various estimates in 1901-1912 years. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences.

    less than a million a year (although, of course, also a terrible number), and with the Bolsheviks how many died of hunger? But the people's power, not like the royal satraps. Do not look for numbers? or not interested?
    1. AK64
      AK64 14 July 2016 20: 12
      +4
      Quote: Parsec
      According to various estimates in 1901-1912 years. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences.


      less than a million a year (although, of course, also a terrible number), and with the Bolsheviks how many died of hunger? But the people's power, not like the royal satraps. Do not look for numbers? or not interested?


      TovarisTch is lying without blushing - it's whose "ratings" are that? And this their own thumb sucking, not "scores."
      Under the tsar, it wasn’t under the communists — statistics were. Mortality was recorded. If there had been mass mortality somewhere, now photocopies from statistical reports would have been ready here. Where are they?
      Ah ... not that.
      And will not be.
  • Uncle Murzik
    Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 23: 47
    +1
    a lover of crispy rolls, the civil war in Russia went on from 1917 to 1922, in the country of devastation. However, the Bolsheviks were not inactive. A decree of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of Soviets in June 1921 was organized by the Central Committee Pomgol. This commission was given special powers in the field of distribution and supply of food. And similar commissions were created on the ground. Active purchase of bread was carried out abroad. Special attention was paid to helping peasants in sowing winter crops in 1921 and spring crops in 1922. About 55 million pounds of seeds were purchased for these purposes. - Read more on FB.ru: http://fb.ru/article/211331/golod-v-povolje-----godov-prichinyi-istoricheskie-fa
    ktyi
  • tatra
    tatra 14 July 2016 17: 29
    +1
    Quote: Parsec
    The Bolsheviks had the same situation.

    The Bolsheviks had a much worse situation.
    The external and internal enemies of the Bolsheviks who occupied the South and Siberia made a food blockade of the territory controlled by the Bolsheviks — Denikin wrote: “We severed fertile regions from the Soviet government, deprived it of bread, a huge amount of military supplies and inexhaustible sources of replenishment of armies.”
    And on this territory, peasants-enemies of the Bolsheviks, rotted grain, fed it to cattle, so as not to give it to the starving citizens.
    1. veteran66
      veteran66 14 July 2016 20: 05
      0
      Quote: tatra
      Denikin wrote:

      You are not lost in the chronology? What areas did Denikin tear away in the 22nd, and even more so in the 32nd year?
  • Mother CheeseEarth
    Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 17: 37
    +2
    Quote: Parsec
    Is it because the money was worthless?

    And you do not confuse inflation under the tsar and the EaP (war is the same!) and the ban on money under the Bolsheviks (in peacetime!).
    Quote: Parsec
    The emergency required emergency measures.

    Are you talking about the Bolsheviks? Well, once again I remind you that those grains were not collected by the army and the city, but by advantage abroad. World fire inflate!
    1. Parsec
      Parsec 14 July 2016 19: 05
      0
      Quote: Mother CheeseEarth
      Well, once again I remind you that those grains were not collected by the army and the city, but by an advantage abroad. World fire inflate!


      If you are about the twenties, so after the German revolution, the revolution in Hungary, no one was going to fan the fire - there was already experience.

      "The period in the history of Soviet Russia from 1925 to 1932 is called by historians the" Golden Blockade ": since 1925, Western countries (read" cradles of democracy ": the United States, Britain and France) sold the USSR the latest equipment and technologies of that time only, at the beginning, for timber, oil and grain, and since 1930 ONLY for grain ".

      The meaning of this act is simple - now the USSR can buy machine tools and machines only for its natural resources. Gold will lie in the basements of Gokhran dead weight. Oil, timber and grain, especially grain - it is precisely its west that wants to receive for the supply of its equipment. The country's leadership is forced to play by these rules: the equipment is paid for by natural resources, since we do not take gold.

      There is a great opportunity to conquer Soviet Russia without inventing Hitler and without military intervention.

      The first step to this is the refusal to accept gold from the USSR, the second step is an embargo (import ban) on the supply of Soviet goods to the West. In fact, export of timber and oil products is prohibited. That is, all that paid for the supply of Western cars for the destroyed Russian economy.

      The first five-year plan begins in 1929, the United States introduced restrictions in 1930-1931, a similar decree was issued in France in 1930. On April 17, 1933, the British government announced an embargo on the main export goods of the USSR. It covers up to 80% of our exports.

      "At first, the West refused to accept gold from the USSR as payment, then everything else except grain. At the same time, in the West, the organized" Crisis "(for internal use, including for the redistribution and seizure of property from some in favor of others), knocks down the price of our grain, but for its products - the price almost doubles.

      The Stalinist leadership is faced with a choice: either refusal to restore industry, i.e. capitulation to the West, or the continuation of industrialization, leading to a terrible internal crisis. If the Bolsheviks take grain from the peasants, there is a very high probability of hunger, which in turn, most likely, will lead to an internal explosion and a shift in power. Either way, the West wins. "

      Only after the famine of 1932 did the West agree to accept oil, gold and metals.
      1. AK64
        AK64 14 July 2016 19: 42
        +2
        What horrors tell ...

        They invented it themselves - and they themselves are scared
    2. Outsider V.
      Outsider V. 15 July 2016 13: 02
      +2
      Quote: Mother CheeseEarth
      Well, once again I remind you that those grains were not collected by the army and the city, but by advantage abroad. World fire inflate!


      And where is the global fire? In the absence of currency, grain went to pay for equipment and technology. Until 1930, along with gold, forest, etc., as well as attempts to sell art objects (but these attempts quickly ended). After 1930, the West introduced a ban on accepting gold and products from the USSR. It was possible to pay only with grain.
      1. AK64
        AK64 15 July 2016 15: 35
        0
        After 1930, the West introduced a ban on accepting gold and products from the USSR. It was possible to pay only with grain.


        This is a fairy tale, and the fairy tale is ridiculous.
        And it was invented very recently. That is, let’s say in the USSR (when, it would seem, they lied shamelessly) they didn’t fall to such lies. For they understood the absurdity.

        It is interesting, of course, who exactly invented this fairy tale ...
        However, it’s not very interesting - Kara-Murzilka what-thread
  • tatra
    tatra 14 July 2016 17: 23
    +1
    Quote: Parsec
    or purposefully lying.

    Of course he is lying. ALL the facts that the enemies of the Communists expose the Bolsheviks-Communists for "crimes" are justified in ALL other cases or "do not notice."
  • Rastas
    Rastas 14 July 2016 11: 26
    +2
    Wow, but anarchism is not an ideology? By the way, it was a very consistent ideology and very popular at that time. There is a very good book by the historian A. Shubin "Nestor Makhno and His Time" on this topic.
    1. Mother CheeseEarth
      Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 11: 38
      +1
      Quote: Rastas
      But is anarchism not an ideology?

      No.
      Anarchism is denial for the sake of denial. And any denial for the sake of denial is a denial of common sense and nothing more.
      1. Rastas
        Rastas 14 July 2016 11: 54
        0
        If you don’t know anything about anarchism, then why are you writing any nonsense?
        1. Mother CheeseEarth
          Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 12: 25
          +1
          Quote: Rastas
          If you don’t know anything about anarchism, then why are you writing any nonsense?

          You write this, and I spent almost half of my life as an informal teenager, and it’s time for you to grow up too, all the best hi
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 14 July 2016 12: 38
            +1
            Well, you have remained an informal teenager.
            1. Mother CheeseEarth
              Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 12: 48
              +1
              Quote: Rastas
              Well, you have remained an informal teenager.

              Oooh, the master of making "diagnoses by userpic" pulled himself up. Keep it up!
          2. bober1982
            bober1982 14 July 2016 12: 49
            0
            The anarchists were serious people (Prince Kropotkin, Bakunin), then they later equated the anarchists with drunken sailors, and now you equated them with stupid teenagers. This is not serious.
            1. Mother CheeseEarth
              Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 13: 17
              +2
              Quote: bober1982
              Anarchists were serious people (Prince Kropotkin, Bakunin)

              By origin, but not by reason.
              This was one of the causes of the crisis of the monarchy by the beginning of the 20th century.
              It was not that it was impossible to rise from the bottom (it’s not true, in the Republic of Ingushetia many serfs were richer than their landlords and often bought themselves, and many did not buy, serf status had its advantages), but that the tops were almost impossible to fall.
      2. AK64
        AK64 14 July 2016 17: 44
        +1
        No.
        Anarchism is denial for the sake of denial. And any denial for the sake of denial is a denial of common sense and nothing more.

        Strictly speaking, you are wrong: anarchism is actually a branch of social democracy (albeit heretical), that is, at the core of Marxism. In this sense, of course, it is not an independent ideology (just a division of social democracy). But "negation for the sake of negation" is not either.

        Another thing is how exactly THIS wanted to understand Kranstadt sailors and South Russian peasants ...
  • Mother CheeseEarth
    Mother CheeseEarth 14 July 2016 10: 40
    -1
    The confrontation swept all walks of life, entered every home.

    And this was, and that brother went to brother. And if one brother was prosperous, and the other, who lived with him in the same house (yard), was considered a beggar, then the Bolsheviks intelligibly explained to him that the tsar and the white guard were to blame.
    It should be noted that in this period of time the confrontation swept the masses of soldiers, who stood mainly on the side of the Bolsheviks

    Well, if the number of the Red Army in the first year (six months) of the war amounted to no more than 10% of the number of tsarist soldiers directly on the fronts of the Russian-German border, and this is also after the declaration by the Bolsheviks general mobilization this is "Predominantly on the Bolshevik side"then I don't know what to say.
    It is good that the author even "mysteriously kept silent" about the officers, and thanks for that! hi
    Most of the Kuban, tired of the war, supported the Bolsheviks in the spring of 1920.

    Great pearl! Please announce the results of the vote in the Kuban in the spring of 1920!
    In the spring of 1920, only a few continued the struggle against the Bolsheviks.

    And I would really like the authors to add at least some numbers after writing "arguments like most and few".
    Well, there, 51% is almost everything, and 49% is almost nothing. Well, or how do the authors define "mainly" and "few" there? request
    the introduction of labor duties and surplus-apportionment, the redistribution of Cossack lands and lawless reprisals, the prohibition of the participation of kulaks in the elections heated the atmosphere.

    Is it glowing? Yes, it was a fire!
    People with pitchforks went to the Bolshevik caravans, and they were mowed down with machine guns. Zhukov himself received his first order while sitting on the barn with his booty for 7-8 hours with machine guns and guns firing back from the attacking crowd, armed with "sabers".
    This is how the people should be brought to hunger for 7-8 hours on the machine guns armed with "sabers", in more precise terminology, mainly with axes and pitchforks.
    Accurate Rebel Count

    Are you talking about the Red Army? Yes, like there are official statistics, they started with 500 thousand and ended with 500 thousand.
    And after 70 years they finally finished, it’s a pity, they dragged on for a long time.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 14 July 2016 12: 40
    0
    sailors of the Black Sea Fleet. At the request of the Novorossiysk Committee of the Bolsheviks, F.M. Karnau-Grushevsky


    The Cossacks inflicted heavy losses on this rabble, capable of only a war with civilians.
    Having taken the corpses, the bandits fled to Sevastopol and arranged the wild massacre of the heroes of Zonguldak, Trebizond, Varna, officers of the Black Sea Fleet, brutally killing them at home, on the streets, train station, wharf, killed with bayonets, beaten to death with their hands and butts. Here they are, bold, sadistic.
    Aides of the German occupiers killed officers serving in the navy during the war with the German invaders. The traitors themselves to the front with an external aggressor were in no hurry - it turned out to be easier to kill their unarmed and peaceful people.
    1. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 13: 34
      +1
      The atrocities of Ataman Annenkov in 1917-1921 - Not at all an invention of Soviet propaganda, white memoirists also testify to this. In total, the Annenkov Cossacks destroyed more than 85 thousand inhabitants of the Urals and Siberia. In terms of cruelty and sadism in the white army, they had no equal.
      For comparison, the chieftain Kaledin shot 45 thousand workers, peasants and Cossacks. And 30 thousand Cossacks, by his decree, were deprived of the Cossack rank and were evicted from the territory of the Don.
      The memoirs of the White Guard officer A. Novokreschenkov, written in exile, contain an impressive story about the reprisal on the Selka pass, which was committed by Annenkov over partisan families who did not want to evacuate with him to China: “Around March 16-19, the chieftain’s detachment Annenkova, under the pressure of the Red Army, approached the border of China at the Selke Pass. Ataman called this place "Eagle's Nest" and camped there with a detachment of about 5 thousand people. Here were the regiment of Ataman Annenkov, or the Ataman, Orenburg Regiment of General Dutov, the Jaeger Regiment and Manchurian with one battery and sapper division. The Ataman regiment provided cover for the retreat of the detachment. On the spot, he tried the partisans who came to their homeland, they simply undressed and shot them or informed the armed Kyrgyz that such a party was going on and that it needed to be destroyed. Families of some officers marched to the border with the detachment, for example, the family of the honored Orenburger, Colonel Lugovsky, consisting of three daughters and an elderly wife, the wife of Yesaul Martemyanov and, among others, the wife with the 12-year-old daughter of the Wahmister Petrov-Orenburger. The chieftain ordered all the families to evacuate to China, and he immediately ordered the 1st hundred of the Ataman regiment, to give the centurion Vasilyev all the women at the disposal of the partisans, and to kill the men. As soon as the families began to pass, the centurion Vasiliev detained them under various pretexts and sent hundreds of them to his convoy, where there were already lovers of violence: Colonel Sergeyev - the head of the garrison of Sergipol, Shulga, Ganaga and others. Arriving women were stripped, and they passed into drunken companies from hand to hand, and after they were chopped in the most incredible poses.
      From this monstrous situation, the daughter of the vakhmistra, who had already been raped with a severed arm, managed to escape, who ran into the detachment and told everything. This was conveyed to the Orenburgers, asked them to stand up for defense. The regiment immediately armed itself, and its commander, Conchinsky, went with the Martian to the chieftain and demanded the extradition of those responsible. Ataman did not agree for a long time, he delayed the time so that the main culprit Vasiliev had the opportunity to escape abroad and thereby cover his tracks. But, under the threat of a revolver, Conchinsky forced the chieftain to extradite criminals. Orenburgers arrested Shulga, Ganaga and another three to four people. Volunteers were called to chop them. The felling of these people took place in front of the entire detachment.
      1. veteran66
        veteran66 14 July 2016 21: 42
        +1
        Quote: Uncle Murzik
        The felling of these people took place in front of the entire detachment.

        Their retribution overtook them from their own .... War is generally a dirty business (I do not justify anyone) and always, like scum on dirty water, all kinds of scum come up to the top, moreover, from any side. The most important thing is that this is not encouraged, but punished in the most cruel way, as in the example you cited.
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 22: 26
          +1
          White General Kornilov: "We went to power to hang, but we had to hang to come to power."
          American General Graves: “In Eastern Siberia, for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were a hundred people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements.”
          US officers Sayers and Kahn: "Hundreds of Russians who dared not submit to the new dictator (Kolchak) hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway."
          Russian writer William, who fought in the Denikin army: “In the middle of the village they dug a pole, tied it (the Red Army) higher; They wrapped a rope around the skull, stuck a stake through the rope and - a circular motion! At the end, the soldiers refused to turn, gentlemen, the officers took up. And suddenly we hear: crack! - the skull box shook ... An instructive sight. "
          Yeah, the sight is really instructive. Especially for those who listen with tenderness to songs about the noble lieutenants of the Golitsins and the Cornets of Obolensk. Please note: the soldiers could not stand it, refused, and these, "their nobility", gladly brought the torture to a spectacular ending. An instructive spectacle for Denikin’s current admirers, under whose leadership atrocities were committed in Novorossiysk, both in the dungeons of Denikin’s counterintelligence and right on the streets.
          1. Aleksander
            Aleksander 15 July 2016 12: 04
            +1
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            White General Kornilov: "We went to power to hang, but we had to hang to come to power."

            He this Did not tell.
            As there was no next nonsense:
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            US officers Sayers and Kahn: "Hundreds of Russians who dared not submit to the new dictator (Kolchak) hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway."

            Post Nonsense without end: what, in .., American "officers" - witnesses?
            Michael Sayers (1911 2010) and Albert Kahn (1912 1979)-YEAR BIRTH is visible?

            Two Jews from Ireland and England, first anarchists, then Communist Party of the United States good Kang-generally Soviet intelligence officer belay -Don't wait? In Siberia, there have never been.
            Graves is a Bolshevik litter that impeded arms supplies to Kolchak.
            US courts over "atrocities" in Siberia LOSED .

            Smarter-nothing but stupid propaganda?
            1. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 15 July 2016 13: 02
              +1
              so stupid propaganda, you are a lover of crispy buns! You will refute the links that General Kornilov did not say this, Michael Sayers (1911-2010) and Albert Kahn (1912-1979) -YEAR OF BIRTH, give a link! Otherwise, from your "fantasies" , already sick! fool
              1. Aleksander
                Aleksander 15 July 2016 13: 56
                0
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                so stupid propaganda you are a lover of crispy buns! you are on links refute that General Kornilov did not say this, Michael Sayers (1911-2010) and Albert Kahn (1912-1979) - YEAR OF BIRTH, give a link! otherwise from your "fantasies", to put it mildly,already sick

                Links to what Never said?! What is it? belay lol
                Naturally, you feel sick: this action stupid LIES the newspaper and the comics story that you spew endlessly.

                Look for links yourself, I’m not engaged in educational program.
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 15 July 2016 14: 48
                  -1
                  GY gee gee answer worthy of another "dreamer" laughing! The bed does not decorate the man hi
                  1. Aleksander
                    Aleksander 15 July 2016 22: 06
                    -1
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    lies

                    "lodgesЬ"does not adorn a LITERATE person who would also never screw up with"American lol officers" lol Kahn and Sayers.
                    Good luck in self-education! hi
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 15 July 2016 13: 06
              +1
              here are more examples of Kolchak's atrocities
              "Having seized the territory of present-day Tatarstan, Kolchak arranged a blood bath for the workers and peasants. First of all, the captured members of the Yelabuga Revolutionary Committee and the leaders of other bodies of Soviet power were shot. And in the suburban village of Tokoyka, 18 young peasant guys were shot just for the fact that a few days before of the arrival of whites marched through the streets of the village with a red flag. Some informer, in a fit of sycophancy, submitted a full list of demonstrators to the counterintelligence of whites. 19 people were arrested and escorted to the Yelabuga pier to put them in a floating prison, the so-called death barge. An elderly peasant caught up with a column of prisoners and asked the guards to release his grandson instead of himself. The request was respected, the boy was released, and the old man was shot outside the outskirts. Kazan! They grabbed suspicious things, tortured them, hanged them, and then a stoneon the neck - and to feed the fish. A usual picture for those days: a barge floats along the Kama, victims swing on the gallows, and drunken punishers sit on barges and bawl to an accordion:
              Here comes the barge past the pier. We will feed the Communists fish. ”
              About the atrocities of the White Guards in Prikamye:
              EVERYONE is probably aware of the armed uprising in Motovilikha in December 1905, but it turns out that there was another armed uprising in Perm - of the 1918 model. By the evening of the fateful day, only Perm II and the surrounding area remained in the hands of the Reds, but already on December 25, part of the 3rd armies ran randomly over the railway bridge across the Kama towards Glazov. But it is naive, alas, to think that this is where the blood flows in the Kama region dried up. No, the brutalized officers have now arranged their white terror here. More than a hundred of the Motovilikha workers were brought to the ice of the Kama, shot and lowered into the hole, three hundred prisoners of the Red Army were also killed on the ice of Sylva. In Nytva, attack aircraft from the battalion of Colonel Urbanovsky hacked to death in the market square with sabers and stabbed with bayonets almost a hundred prisoners. In the Kizelovsky district, more than eight thousand (!) Prisoners and sympathizers were sent "to the expense". And this is not counting the general executions on the gallows, torture, corporal punishment and other horrors
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Aleksander
                Aleksander 15 July 2016 14: 03
                0
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                here are more examples of Kolchak's atrocities
                "Having seized the territory of present-day Tatarstan, Kolchak arranged a blood bath for the workers and peasants. First of all, the captured members of the Yelabuga Revolutionary Committee and the leaders of other bodies of Soviet power were shot. And in the suburban village of Tokoyka, 18 young peasant guys were shot just for the fact that a few days before of the arrival of whites marched through the streets of the village with a red flag. Some informer, in a fit of sycophancy, submitted a full list of demonstrators to the counterintelligence of whites. 19 people were arrested and escorted to the Yelabuga pier to put them in a floating prison, the so-called death barge. An elderly peasant caught up with a column of prisoners and asked the guards to release his grandson instead of himself. The request was respected, the boy was released, and the old man was shot outside the outskirts. Kazan! They grabbed suspicious things, tortured them, hanged them, and then a stoneon the neck - and to feed the fish. A usual picture for those days: a barge floats along the Kama, victims swing on the gallows, and drunken punishers sit on barges and bawl to an accordion:
                Here comes the barge past the pier. We will feed the Communists fish. ”
                About the atrocities of the White Guards in Prikamye:
                EVERYONE is probably aware of the armed uprising in Motovilikha in December 1905, but it turns out that there was another armed uprising in Perm - of the 1918 model. By the evening of the fateful day, only Perm II and the surrounding area remained in the hands of the Reds, but already on December 25, part of the 3rd armies ran randomly over the railway bridge across the Kama towards Glazov. But it is naive, alas, to think that this is where the blood flows in the Kama region dried up. No, the brutalized officers have now arranged their white terror here. More than a hundred of the Motovilikha workers were brought to the ice of the Kama, shot and lowered into the hole, three hundred prisoners of the Red Army were also killed on the ice of Sylva. In Nytva, attack aircraft from the battalion of Colonel Urbanovsky hacked to death in the market square with sabers and stabbed with bayonets almost a hundred prisoners. In the Kizelovsky district, more than eight thousand (!) Prisoners and sympathizers were sent "to the expense". And this is not counting the general executions on the gallows, torture, corporal punishment and other horrors

                What year is the copy-book-1920-1985? lol By the way, about Kaledin, who "killed 65 thousand peasants": read at least WHEN he died so that you understand what nonsense you are talking about (GV, as it were, did not exist yet) yes
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 15 July 2016 15: 52
                  +1
                  you fantasize from here was written in the source "For comparison, Ataman Kaledin shot 45 thousand workers, peasants and Cossacks" At the beginning of the Ice Campaign, Kornilov said: "I give you a very cruel order: do not take prisoners!" I take responsibility for this order before God and the Russian people! " A. Suvorin, the only one who managed to publish his work “hot on the trail” - in Rostov in 1919, writes: “The first battle of the army, organized and received its current name Volunteer, was the offensive on Gukov in mid-January. Releasing the officer battalion from Novocherkassk, Kornilov admonished him with the words: “Don't take these villains prisoner for me! The more terror, the more victories will be with them! "

                  N.N. Bogdanov (“Organization of the Volunteer Army and the First Kuban Campaign”) cites the testimony of a participant in the “Ice Campaign”: “Captured, after receiving information about the actions of the Bolsheviks, were shot by the commandant. The officers of the commandant detachment at the end of the campaign were very sick people, before that they were nervous. Korvin-Krukovsky had some kind of painful cruelty. The officers of the commandant’s squad had a heavy duty to shoot the Bolsheviks, but, unfortunately, I knew many cases when, under the influence of hatred of the Bolsheviks, officers took upon themselves the responsibility of voluntarily shooting the prisoners. ”

                  One of the campaign participants recalled the cruelty on the part of ordinary volunteers during the “Ice Campaign” when he wrote about the reprisals of the volunteers over those captured: “All the Bolsheviks captured by us with weapons in their hands were shot on the spot: alone, in tens, hundreds. It was an extermination war. ” (Fedyuk V.P. Bely. Anti-Bolshevik movement in the south of Russia 1917-1918).
                  1. Aleksander
                    Aleksander 15 July 2016 21: 58
                    -1
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    you are fantasizing from here it was written in the source "For comparison, the ataman Kaledin shot 45 thousand workers, peasants and Cossacks." The beginning Kornilov Ice Camp declared


                    Well, what can I talk about with you if you don’t even know that Ataman Kaledin perished BEFORE THE ICE HIKE lol
                    The rest delirium I do not comment.
                    Yes, so WHERE Kaledin KILLED 45 THOUSAND WORKERS? lol
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 16 July 2016 06: 23
                      0
                      so you are wandering a lover of "French bread" I do not write about when Kaledin died, and even more so I do not associate an ice hike belay ! I gave you an example of the atrocities of the "noble" whites, where the whites themselves testify! Well, you lover of bread did not refute anything, did not give you more than one reference! Here is another example about Kaledin "For Rostov, the workers' power in Taganrog fell. In a stormy wave, arrests and executions swept through the cities and mining settlements of the Eastern Donbass. By the example of the reprisals against the miners and metallurgists of this area, the Vendians of Kaledin clearly showed everyone what order they are going to bring to Moscow, Petrograd and other revolutionary centers of the country. for a short time, executioners from the detachments of Chernetsov, Lazarev and other punishers at the Yasinovsky mine killed 117 workers, destroyed the Berestovo-Bogodukhovsky mine, shot a group of Bolsheviks and non-party miners here.About 90 workers were killed in Taganrog (see: Civil War and Military Intervention in the USSR . Encyclopedia .., p. 249). Well, now give a link to the refutation, or again you, besides "sl oat diarrhea "nothing, or again, do not spend an educational program laughing fool
          2. The comment was deleted.
  • Uncle Murzik
    Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 13: 40
    +1
    when the Great Patriotic War began, the same Denikin, already in exile in the United States, bought an American tank with his own money and presented it to the Red Army. He could not and did not want to fight against Russia. His words: "There is no more white or red army. There is one army - Russian. And it will win." But the Cossack Ataman Krasnov at the same time did a lot to create Cossack units in the SS. For which he was executed, like Shkuro in 1946. And this, I think, is fair. M. Voloshin wrote very succinctly about the civil war back in 1919:

    And I stand alone between them
    In a roaring flame and smoke.
    And with all my strength
    I pray
    For those and for others.
    1. alexej123
      alexej123 11 October 2016 17: 52
      0
      For Denikin right, for Krasnov and Shkuro not. They are not COSSACK GENERALS, but traitors to their people, for which they ended up hanging, a shameful, not officer death. By the way, Polina’s article also talks about the homeland of Shkuro, the village of Pashkovskaya, now one of the districts of Krasnodar.
  • timyr
    timyr 14 July 2016 17: 23
    +1
    Quote: Aleksander
    sailors of the Black Sea Fleet. At the request of the Novorossiysk Committee of the Bolsheviks, F.M. Karnau-Grushevsky


    The Cossacks inflicted heavy losses on this rabble, capable of only a war with civilians.
    Having taken the corpses, the bandits fled to Sevastopol and arranged the wild massacre of the heroes of Zonguldak, Trebizond, Varna, officers of the Black Sea Fleet, brutally killing them at home, on the streets, train station, wharf, killed with bayonets, beaten to death with their hands and butts. Here they are, bold, sadistic.
    Aides of the German occupiers killed officers serving in the navy during the war with the German invaders. The traitors themselves to the front with an external aggressor were in no hurry - it turned out to be easier to kill their unarmed and peaceful people.

    But the numbers can be killed, otherwise it will turn out in the 20 years, when the whites decided to count the number of brutally killed naval officers, it turned out from about 1000 people the fate of about 200 people was unknown. The rest are in Paris, those in Turkey or Bizert are alive and healthy. And the whites fell silent, only shouting about the dead without specifying the number. Just ask how some admirals behaved before the revolution with the sailors.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 14 July 2016 21: 52
      0
      Quote: timyr
      But the numbers can be killed, otherwise it will turn out in the 20 years, when the whites decided to count the number of brutally killed naval officers, it turned out from about 1000 people the fate of about 200 people was unknown. The rest are in Paris, those in Turkey or Bizert are alive and healthy. And the whites fell silent, only shouting about the dead without specifying the number. Just ask how some admirals behaved before the revolution with the sailors.



      One more time: during the war with the German invaders (this is just December 1917) officers of the Black Sea Fleet, who were located in the service, the most valuable fleet miners, artillerymen, electricians, patriots of the country, ready to always defend their homeland.
      What are the names of the killers of the military during the war? ASSOCIATORS of the invaders and traitors. How did they act in 41, everyone knows.
      KHAMSKY "tsifirki killed" about the victims of the massacre by red beasts - shove in. and in. ...
      1. Uncle Murzik
        Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 22: 33
        -2
        Even on the eve of World War II, at the entrance to the Petrograd Zoological Garden, there was a humiliating ad to the Russian soldier: "Dogs and lower ranks are not allowed to enter." The soldiers had no right to participate in the political life of the country. The young soldiers who arrived at the barracks were placed at the complete disposal of the sergeant major, who, using their power and impunity, extorted money from the soldiers and in every possible way mocked them. The soldier could not complain. A new, even more cruel, reprisal awaited him for the complaint. For example, in 1909 the company commander of the 3rd Pernovsky regiment beat the grenadier Levitin with a stick, Levitin decided to file a complaint against the commander. Upon learning of this, the commander summoned a soldier to his place and offered him a small amount of money, threateningly cursing: "Give it up, don't complain - you will get more." When the soldier refused the money, the commander wrote a report on him that Levitin had broken his stick. And the fate of the grenadier was decided. He was put on trial and sentenced to 10 years in hard labor! And you want the sailors to treat the "most valuable"
      2. Uncle Murzik
        Uncle Murzik 14 July 2016 22: 34
        -1
        So, for example, in 1908, 564 people were treated in military hospitals and alleys, not counting single visits, which amounted to almost 837% of the total army.

        In 1908 the following patients were treated: patients with respiratory organs - 63 people, patients with stomach - 563 people, syphilis - 55 people and various infectious diseases - 193 people. It is not surprising that the Russian army also occupied one of the first places in terms of the death rate of the rank and file, and in 67, according to official, far from accurate information, 273 people died, in 79 - 407 people and in 1908 - 4 people or 942%. In addition, several tens of thousands of people dropped out of the army every year due to their inability to serve. For example, in 1910, 5 people were expelled from military service due to their inability. What the category of those incapable of military service is like can be seen from the statements of the chief physician of the Guards Corps: “The number of those who died from pulmonary diseases,” wrote this doctor in 070, “as well as those who were dismissed as incapable, because of them is generally large. a state that, for the most part, upon arrival at home, die, or exhausted, with deeply damaged health, become disabled
  • timyr
    timyr 15 July 2016 05: 47
    0
    Quote: Aleksander
    Quote: timyr
    But the numbers can be killed, otherwise it will turn out in the 20 years, when the whites decided to count the number of brutally killed naval officers, it turned out from about 1000 people the fate of about 200 people was unknown. The rest are in Paris, those in Turkey or Bizert are alive and healthy. And the whites fell silent, only shouting about the dead without specifying the number. Just ask how some admirals behaved before the revolution with the sailors.



    One more time: during the war with the German invaders (this is just December 1917) officers of the Black Sea Fleet, who were located in the service, the most valuable fleet miners, artillerymen, electricians, patriots of the country, ready to always defend their homeland.
    What are the names of the killers of the military during the war? ASSOCIATORS of the invaders and traitors. How did they act in 41, everyone knows.
    KHAMSKY "tsifirki killed" about the victims of the massacre by red beasts - shove in. and in. ...

    It’s your kind of nervous attitude. About 1000 officers served in the Russian Imperial Navy. After the civil, the whites decided to find out the fate of all and it turned out that the fate of 200 people was unknown, the rest were all safe and sound. Who serves the Reds, who escaped abroad. Well, as we continue to lie. And some officers were killed in the Baltic. But they killed for their attitude to people. And no need to lie, they killed mostly not the technical staff, but those who behaved boorishly. So in the year 17, your liberals made a revolution. Well, I’ll hear the numbers how many people were killed, or just the cries of a liberalist.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Uncle Murzik
        Uncle Murzik 15 July 2016 13: 46
        -1
        The wave of killings reached its bases only after the collapse of the Russian state and the coming to power of the Bolsheviks. The first victim among the Black Sea officers was Midshipman Nikolai Skorodinsky, who was killed on December 13, 1917 in the back with a shot thundered from the deck hatch on the destroyer Fidonisi, which was in the open sea. Within a few days, the sailor detachments of the "fighters against counter-revolution" (who had fought against the Don Cossacks and the first volunteer units) who had returned from the Don began a massacre. The most terrible events occurred in the second half of December 1917 and February 23, 1918.

        Moreover, if in the Baltic the murders, at least outwardly, were of an unorganized nature, then with the coming to power of the Bolsheviks, many atrocities were committed by the verdict of the "revolutionary tribunals". In particular, officers who participated in the suppression of riots and riots on ships that took place long before the February Revolution were sentenced to various terms of imprisonment. It was they who were destined to become victims of the "night of Eremeev" on February 23 (this is how illiterate murderers changed the word "Bartholomew" from the history of France, when in one night from 23 to 24 August 1572 only in "civilized" Paris the French Catholics massacred 2 thousand French -protesters). Moreover, in cruelty, the sailors (or those who disguised themselves as them) reached terrible fanaticism and a complete loss of human appearance. For example, senior lieutenant D.I. Pavlovsky was thrown on the territory of the Sevastopol port under steel sheets and trampled, many were beaten with rifle butts or simply stabbed with bayonets. At the moment, the names of 68 dead officers are known, including 6 admirals, 5 generals, 15 headquarters and 42 chief officers! But why are you not interested in the number of victims on the cruiser "Ochakov"! "Ochakov" burned like a giant bonfire in the middle of the bay for two days. There is no exact information about the number of victims on the cruiser. It is known that on November 15 the ship had up to 380 crew members, not counting the sailors from the squadron and coastal units. According to other sources, there were about 700 people at Ochakov. The Bolshevik newspaper Borba wrote that “no more than forty or fifty people were saved. 39 residents of Ochakov were brought to trial ”. Gendarme captain Vasilyev in his report pointed out: “... both the dead and the wounded remained on the Ochakov after it caught fire, and all burned down ... at nine in the evening I myself saw the red-hot sides of the Ochakov! So where are the cannibals
  • timyr
    timyr 15 July 2016 16: 07
    -1
    Quote: Aleksander
    Quote: timyr
    . In the Russian Imperial Navy served about 1000 officers


    And not ashamed to write such a BAD?

    This is not even a liar declares, but an ordinary - dull ignoramus.

    naval historian captain 1st rank Dotsenko:

    the number of officers of the Russian Imperial Fleet in October 1917 was about 5500 people. Of these, more than 2 thousand were in exile, and of the remaining half died during the Civil War or were repressed, up to 30% went to serve in the Soviet fleet, and the rest remaining in the USSR began to work in other areas of activity. Most of the remaining ones were subsequently destroyed.

    Some admirals (fleet commander Nepenin) and leading fleet specialists were killed by German saboteurs (real) with the hands of a red beast money. Germany solved the tasks of destroying the Russian fleet. And ardent accomplices of the German-f .. invaders of the Bolsheviks they helped in this very much.

    Quote: timyr
    killed those who behaved boorishly

    Is a NORMAL person not eatercan SUCH write? In my opinion, no ....

    Well, where did you find such data, you're lying again. According to the naval circle in Paris for 1917, there were 2019 officers. The fate of 1859 people was clarified. Of these, 563 people died in Russia during the civil war and the killings in December 1917, 900 went west, 450 served as red. Yes, and would serve you in the Navy in those days when officers liked to beat sailors. Well, what did it result in in 17. There, your favorite officers were also involved in a sprinkling of the rations money team. Is it any wonder that in 17 they were killed. Yes, and about the shot officers who served as red, you can facts, but it turns out that most of them survived and died peacefully in their beds. Yes, my friend, calm down, your beloved whites then came to us with Hitler in 41 and showered off, or do you think that they did not kill the Russians, but the Russians. So it’s you who leaves us an eater.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 15 July 2016 22: 41
      0
      [quote = timyr] Well, where did you find such data, you're lying again. [/ quote
      Oh recognized already themselves that Lied lol : not 1000 anymoreAnd already 2019... "Circle" in ... Paris belay immediately after the war, without archives and communications Did not have complete data about the officers and their fate, is it not obvious?

      MODERN (archives AVAILABLE - this is not a "circle" lol ) data of the historian Dotsenko on the number of officers -5500, of which more 1800 died in the fight against the traitors-Bolsheviks and were torn to pieces by cannibals.

      Your silence about the murder of German naval officers by the Bolsheviks during the war with the aggressor eloquently: you have nothing to say. Because everywhere and always it was punishable by death.

      Historian Volkov's facts - "The Tragedy of Russian Officers"

      Good luck in self-education! hi
  • Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 22 November 2016 15: 01
    0
    By the way, probably the well-known "Iron Stream" consisted of "red-green" and "generally it is not clear who".