Military Review

Duels "carpet bombing" of World War II

124
Giant fire tornadoes sucked the people on the streets. Those who tried to escape in underground shelters, choked or died from the unbearable heat - the temperature was such that human bodies melted, turning into a wet spot ... This hell happened 70 years ago and became one of the most controversial and controversial military operations of World War II.


Duels "carpet bombing" of World War II


On February 13, residents of Dresden, the main city of the federal state of Saxony, take to the streets to honor the memory of fellow countrymen who became victims of a terrible bombing attack by the Anglo-American aviation. What was the basis for the choice made of this goal based on the end of the war? There were no serious military facilities in the city. With some stretch to them can be attributed perhaps the railway junction. But the city was packed with hundreds of thousands of refugees from East Prussia and Saxony itself, partly already occupied by the Red Army: its advanced units stood 60 km from Dresden. Later, the British and Americans will claim that they attacked Dresden, fulfilling their allied duty to the USSR - supposedly at his request they wanted to facilitate the capture of the city by the Russians. There is no documented evidence of this, and the Soviet Union denies even its indirect involvement in the Dresden massacre, which has become one of the most tragic events of the Second World War for Germany. According to some historians, the purpose of the bombardment of Dresden and other German cities, departing to the Soviet zone of occupation, was not to help the Soviet troops, but to demonstrate military power to intimidate the ally - the USSR.
The first bomb from an English bomber fell on the city in 22 hours 13 February February 1945 year. The massive air attack lasted only 24 minutes, but that was enough to turn the city into a sea of ​​fire. In 1: February 20 14 nights, the raid was repeated using mostly incendiary bombs. After 10 in the morning, the latest series of bombs hit the city, delivered this time by US bombers. This completed the murder of the city already lying in the ruins. Ironically, the railway junction was not affected. The quantitative data on the human victims of a fierce strike vary widely: from 25 ?? 000 to 135 ?? 000 and more. Accurate assessment does not allow for the lack of accounting for refugees who flooded the city before the attack. In any case, the number of victims is comparable (or even exceeds them) with the losses caused by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima (according to various sources - from 90 to 160 thousand people).

Theorists and practitioners
At the beginning of the 20th century, the newly emerging aviation immediately became the object of close attention of the military. In it, the generals saw the possibility of striking the heads and fortifications of the enemy, while remaining inaccessible to his bayonets and bullets. Already in the First World War, this idea found application on both sides of the European front. The first results were impressive. Many strategists were dizzy from the unlimited possibilities of the new kind of troops that had opened up. One of these was the Italian General Giulio Due (1869 − 1930). Back in 1915, he proposed to send an armada of 500 bombers to strike at cities hostile to Austria, believing that this would bring not only a military, but also a psychological, demoralizing effect. Duee thought that after such a shake-up Austria would have no choice but to surrender. He developed similar ideas in the so-called Douet Doctrine, which assigns the dominant role to bomber in a war. The general argued that the massive bombing of cities, in addition to the destruction of military-industrial facilities and the destruction of troops, are aimed at demoralizing the enemy and compelling him to surrender. Admirers of the Doye doctrine were the German Nazis - they were the first to put it into practice during the Spanish Civil War. 26 April 1937 was the victim of Guernica - a town in the Basque Country. Aces of the German elite bomber regiment "Condor" with the support of the Italians turned the city into ruins, killing more than 200 civilians.


Photo
The doctrine of General Douet born during the First World War for the first time found its technical embodiment on the eve of the Second World War. The methods of "carpet bombing" were used much later: in particular, the authorship of the phrase "bombed into the stone age" belongs to the American Air Force general Curtis Lemey. This is 1965 year.

Battle of Britain
14 May 1940, the Germans destroyed the Dutch Rotterdam. With the aim of seizing France, the Wehrmacht decided to bypass the well-fortified Maginot Line through Holland. Hitler gave only one day to capture this small and weakly armed country. But suddenly the Germans met stubborn resistance. To force the Dutch to capitulate, they needed shock measures. The commander of the German troops, General Schmidt, issued an ultimatum: either immediate surrender, or hundreds of bombers razed down the main seaport of Holland Rotterdam. The Dutch were forced to capitulate (the Douai doctrine worked). But the bombing took place all the same - ostensibly due to a misunderstanding, part of the squadrons prepared for the operation did not receive the last post signal. As a result of the bomb strike, the city center was almost completely destroyed, with up to 1000 people, mostly civilians, killed. England reacted immediately: the very next day the Royal Air Forces made a night raid on the Ruhr area. The Germans responded with the first "test" raid on London. Duel "carpet bombing" gained momentum. After a nightly and ineffective British bombers raid on Berlin, furious Goering, who had previously guaranteed the Fuhrer that no bomb would fall on Reich, ordered London to be equalized with the banks of the Thames. September 7 300 aircraft, and then another 250 crashed the English capital. But the British, prepared for an air war far better than the Dutch, did not flinch. Their losses were not so significant, and the destruction was quickly eliminated. The leader of the nation, Winston Churchill, called on his people to fight decisively against the Nazis. The Germans did not abandon attempts to bring the UK to its knees, destroying its large industrial centers, including London, with total bombardment. The first hit was Coventry, the largest defense, including aircraft manufacturing, center of Great Britain. 450 bombers "Heinkel-111", taking off from the territory of the already occupied France, the waves rolled over the city, turning it into burning ruins. 12 aircraft factories were destroyed, 1236 people died. Another 40 raids before the end of the war had to endure this city. The German pilots even had the term "Coventry raids." Then the targets were Liverpool, Birmingham, Belfast and other industrial centers. The British Air Force defended their country from the last forces. Respond to the Nazis oncoming powerful raids of England while it was not under force. By the beginning of the war, the Royal Air Forces numbered only 448 bombers, of which only the 60 new Vickers were able to reach Berlin and Hamburg. The rest could bomb at best the Ruhr areas. In addition, to fight on equal terms, the British lacked bombs of the appropriate caliber, night sights, etc.? The situation changed in 1942, when the United States joined the active fighting in Europe. By this time, the intensity of the German air strikes had visibly weakened: the Wehrmacht had great difficulties on the Eastern Front, a significant part of the aircraft had to be transferred there. It was these machines, under the command of the former Commander of the Condor, Wolfram von Richthofen, who received General's shoulder straps for Gernick, that 23 August 1942 of the year struck Stalingrad, destroying more than 40? 000 citizens in one raid. In all, about 220? 000 people died from the bombing during the Stalingrad battle.


Photo
The cover of a British weekly newspaper dedicated to the German bombing of Great Britain.

Tragedies of German cities
Since the beginning of 1943, the situation in the sky of Europe has changed dramatically. Unbroken England and the mighty United States, which turned the British Isles into an "unsinkable aircraft carrier", steadily increased the power of their air strikes against Nazi Germany, mercilessly destroying its industrial facilities, turning it into ruins of the city. The British, who initially adhered to the rules established by the Hague Conference, soon realized that they were alone in their gentlemanhood — the enemy and did not think to observe them. And then, on the basis of the principle “to live with wolves, howl like a wolf”, all the rules were discarded, the air war became truly total.

Since then, the term "carpet bombing" has finally come into use. They called it, frankly, the inhuman action so beautifully because the explosions of bombs, which were observed almost close to each other, observed from a height, the craters from them, the fire and smoke of the fires reminded the pilots of a kind of sinister carpet covering all living things. At the Allies conference in 21 in January 1943, the directive “On strengthening the joint air offensive against Germany” was adopted. She provided for the planned destruction by the strategic aviation forces of the military industry and the German economy, as well as undermining the morale of the German people (why not remember the old Doue!). The commander of the Royal Air Force's strategic aviation, General Arthur Harris, stated: "... the destruction of German workers, their families and housing is as effective as the destruction of the factories where they work," and signed an order to prepare Operation Gomorrah, probably recalling the biblical "... and the Lord shed rain from heaven on Sodom and Gomorrah on sulfur and fire ... ”

Hamburg was the first on the edge of the “Gomorrah”. The raid on him was thoroughly prepared, a special bombing tactic was developed: first heavy bomberings, the so-called blockbusters (“quarter destroyers”), were penetrating the houses, followed by incendiary fires to complete the defeat. The first attack of the British, in which participated almost 800 aircraft, began in 1 o'clock in the morning 25 July 1943 of the year. For 50 minutes was 2400 reset? t bombs. In the morning, the Americans came to replace the British. On the night of July 28, 787 bombers took part in the raid on Hamburg, and July 29 took part in 700. Before 30 July, more than 2500 sorties were flown to Hamburg, during which 250? 000 buildings were destroyed, at least 50? 000 people died, about 200? 000 was injured, more than a million citizens were deprived of their housing. The 28 night attack of July was the worst, when a firestorm appeared in the city. Because of the difference in temperature, the hot air, rushing up, created strong cravings and literally sucked people into the fire. In the resulting air flow, the speed reached 240 km / h, and the temperature 800 ° C. The city turned into a fiery underworld. Only that night about 40 died? 000 people. Earlier, a deadly carpet was covered with Cologne, tightly got to such large German cities as Stuttgart, Essen, Nuremberg, and many others. Only after that came the turn of Dresden.


A major role in the allied bombing of German cities was played by heavy US bombers. In the photo - "Flying Fortress" B-17.

Carpet bombing had their own tactics. Initially, heavy high-explosive bombs were used - “quarter destroyers”, “blockbusters”, then lighter incendiary bombs were poured into the breaches formed in the roofs, and the resulting fires completed the deadly work. Intensive attempts by the Luftwaffe to demoralize the British with massive bombardments and to take air supremacy were made from July to September of the 1940 year. This period was called the “Battle of Britain.” The results did not impress Hitler, and he abandoned plans for a naval landing in Britain (Operation Sea Lion). Winston Churchill inspects the cathedral bombed by the Luftwaffe. The speeches of the British Prime Minister during the “Battle of Britain” period became classics of political patriotic rhetoric.
Between the past and the future
In May, 1945 in Europe, and in September of the same year, the Second World War ended in the Pacific. They remembered the barbaric “carpet bombing,” and a scapegoat was immediately found. They made General A. Harris, accusing him of excessive cruelty. He was dismissed from his high position, but did not admit his guilt. Well - in war as in war. However, with the end of World War "carpet bombing" did not sink into oblivion. They repeated in Vietnam, where the Americans from the giant B-52 bombarded Hanoi and other cities. Not without such actions during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.popmech.ru/weapon/55337-apokalipsis-drezdena/
124 comments
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  1. PKK
    PKK 9 July 2016 06: 11
    .
    Dresden either didn’t bomb at all during the entire War, or it didn’t bomb much. Therefore, all those who had slammed away from the war came there, all kinds of mother-in-law, sissies, majors, traitors, undeclared and part of the fifth column of Germany at that time arrived in Dresden. of that War. For this reason, the city was bombed, after its destruction, the war went spore and ended faster. To the author plus.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 9 July 2016 06: 14
      +17
      Quote: PKK
      The Root of Evil of that War was formed in Dresden. For this reason, the city was bombed, after its destruction, the War went spore and ended faster

      “Are you in the mind, anyway?” My doubts ... fool
      1. PKK
        PKK 9 July 2016 13: 42
        .
        It is unfortunate that you are not familiar with the structureless management of such processes as the War. As an example, rule through the Feat and especially the Panic. You try to cover up the lack of education with doubt in my mind. Learn, study and study again, then you won’t be silly to be surprised. I don’t minus you, the child’s soldier will not offend.
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 9 July 2016 14: 52
          +6
          You are not a soldier, in Dresden there were almost only civilians and hospitals.

          In a very wide range, from 225 (local) to 680 thousand (with refugees) died

          "Dehousing" is an English word from 1942, there is no need here about "vyty" as well as repeating the English lie about 25-135 thousand with cynicism about "as effective as factories."

          USA connected in 1943

          Blockbuster is a "seismic weapon", after which lighters were not used, the whole block collapsed at once.

          When withdrawing from Afghanistan, Gorbachev bombed the villages, but he was their comrade.

          The article whitewashes "common people" in every possible way, who selectively bombed residential quarters of cities instead of the industrial sector, and not to support their advancing troops, but simply to kill as many civilians as possible.
        2. Cat man null
          Cat man null 9 July 2016 15: 05
          +3
          Quote: PKK
          with the unstructured management of processes like War ...

          - on this phrase alone it is easy to conclude about the level. Your literacy, including. You have cases in the sentence ... do not fit request
          - if "with control", then "processes". Who, what.

          Quote: PKK
          ... a doubt in my mind ...

          - not even in the mind. In elementary mental normality. A normal person simply will never allow himself to say what you said there. IMHO.

          Quote: PKK
          I don’t minus you, the soldier of the child will not offend

          - Do not be shy. Found, damn ... baby laughing
          1. Simpsonian
            Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 13
            +1
            With Russian cases, the trouble is usually those who have 24 in their language or vice versa only 4, if at all. lol
          2. PKK
            PKK 9 July 2016 15: 21
            -6
            That's how you always, like modern youth, look at the external, how the machine shines so cool. Look at the external movements, names, what the essence of the processes is, you have no idea. I’m not minus you for what you say, for example, you say it’s long, but I’m saying it’s hard. We’re talking about different things, you’re calling women and children, I’m calling, mother-in-law and sissies, majors. You’ll agree that women and children don’t understand how they influence the processes, and majors, for example, traitors, henpecked, are very powerful.
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 9 July 2016 16: 01
              0
              And a lot of dissected majors in Dresden on the pistons?
            2. Cat man null
              Cat man null 9 July 2016 16: 57
              +4
              Quote: PKK
              That's how you are always, like modern youth ...

              - I am the 1962th year of the model, if ..

              Quote: PKK
              ... look at the outside ...

              - sometimes this "external" is a good guess of the internal yes

              In Dresden, the sea was destroyed. People not directly related to the war. This I know for sure. And rejoice at the essence of blasphemy. IMHO.

              All the speculations about "structureless control of the process ... of the war" - they, KMK, are from the evil one.

              That's all, actually request
            3. Baloo
              Baloo 19 October 2016 23: 19
              0
              PKK, would you go to sleep or something ... Does your head hurt again from a hangover? wink
      2. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 16 July 2016 20: 43
        +1
        author, funny. The British and chivalry in war? Moreover, compliance with contracts .... Petrosyan nervously smokes in the corridor.
    2. Forest
      Forest 9 July 2016 15: 24
      +6
      By that time, the war had already ended. In the air, almost 20 is a multiple superiority of the Allied aviation, on the ground 10-15 is a multiple superiority in artillery and armored vehicles. And the bombardment did not cause any harm to the remaining troops. In general, war - one of the most clearly controlled processes in the life of mankind - I do not know such that billions are clearly subordinated to one goal and act in only one direction. Majors and deserters in the rear — they DO NOT generally affect the course of hostilities, except for one thing — the fewer they are, the more resources will go to the workers at the factories and soldiers to the front. Everything.
  2. saigon
    saigon 9 July 2016 06: 18
    +8
    strange impression of the article. The theory of Douai implies a stable, positional front and at the same time the bombing of industry and cities. Germany in 2 MV maneuvering actions (blitzkrieg), interaction of aviation with ground units, breaking through the front, acting in the interests of the advancing units. U 87, U 88 front-line bombers, 111 neinkel are also not a strategic bomber. Actually, German aviation, battlefield aviation. Well, the Anglo bombing with the Saxons of German cities is typical for them.
    1. Blondy
      Blondy 9 July 2016 08: 13
      +12
      In general, strange authors, for some reason, did not mention that the British knew that Dresden was retreating to the Soviet zone of occupation. And what a strange ending:
      Not without similar actions and during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan

      What is it - squadrons of the Tu 95s and Tu 160s were compared with the land of the city?
      1. 0255
        0255 9 July 2016 11: 33
        0
        Quote: Blondy
        What is it - squadrons of the Tu 95s and Tu 160s were compared with the land of the city?

        In Afghanistan, Tu-16, Tu-22 and Tu-22M were used. Carpet bombing was, but not on the scale in which they were used by England and the United States.
        1. Blondy
          Blondy 9 July 2016 12: 12
          +5
          In Afghanistan, Tu-16, Tu-22 and Tu-22M were used. Carpet bombing was, but not on the scale in which they were used by England and the United States.

          To bomb aul and one or two aircraft is enough. This is of course a bombardment, but, in my opinion, still not carpeted. So, let's clarify how the carpet bombing differs from the usual one.
          1. bandabas
            bandabas 9 July 2016 13: 22
            0
            The point is the carpet bombing of a civilian object that does not have military targets. More precisely, so many goals for such an action. It’s a pity, but civilians suffer in the war.
          2. gladcu2
            gladcu2 9 July 2016 18: 14
            +1
            Blondy

            In Afghanistan, long-range bombing attacks hit mountains in areas of supply caravan movements from Pakistan.

            The purpose of the strikes was to call for collapses and the destruction of mountain trails. Used bombs weighing 500 kg. They were considered the most effective. Bombs weighing 1000 kg and more were not considered effective.

            I read about it for a long time.
        2. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 9 July 2016 13: 37
          +4
          Something like carpet bombing was used just before the withdrawal of our troops and villages, caravan paths, mountains along the salang were bombed and it was not correct to compare them with what happened during World War II
          1. gladcu2
            gladcu2 9 July 2016 18: 19
            +3
            Andrey VOV

            The villages were not bombed. Only mountains were bombed to cause landslides.

            With the civilian population in Afghanistan, there were agreements with neighboring military units. The army did not commit atrocities, the local population did not touch the soldiers. Somehow a common language was found.

            Shah Massoud generally had many unspoken arrangements.
      2. Altona
        Altona 9 July 2016 11: 49
        +3
        Quote: Blondy
        In general, strange authors, for some reason, did not mention

        -----------------
        The authors are strange in that they did not describe the technology of the bombing. And she was painted very carefully. The British military engaged ambulance doctors and firefighters in consultations to find out how to organize the bombing. She was supposed to paralyze extinguishing fires and helping the wounded. The principle of a train carousel was also used, when one group dropped bombs, then it was replaced by another and so on. This produced a huge demoralizing effect. When wave after wave of bombers dropped their monstrous load. Air bombs of the end of the war already had good characteristics. This barbaric method of bombing was used by the Royal Air Force and their American partners.
        1. Tsoy
          Tsoy 9 July 2016 12: 05
          0
          Quote: Altona
          The principle of the echelon carousel was also used, when one group dropped bombs, then it was replaced by another, and so on.


          The Luftwaffe used a carousel in the bombing of Stalingrad and Sevastopol. Do you think the residents of these cities also thought that the US Air Force was barbaric? Or the people of China when they bombed Tokyo?
          1. Simpsonian
            Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 01
            -2
            I think yes - those that survived knew better than you what it is.
            1. Tsoy
              Tsoy 9 July 2016 16: 30
              -1
              Quote: Simpsonian
              I think yes - those that survived knew better than you what it is.


              If this is an appeal to me, then we You they didn’t drink at brundershaft, so that you can go over to you, judging by your comments, you are “you” to everyone, which speaks of your cultural level and upbringing.
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 9 July 2016 20: 57
                -1
                To you, judging by the fact that you and the majority here write it’s not worth talking to you at all.
                1. Tsoy
                  Tsoy 10 July 2016 06: 11
                  0
                  Quote: Simpsonian
                  you


                  Well, no one forces you. But rude to impolite. Based on your communication style, there is no pleasure in communicating with you.
                  1. Simpsonian
                    Simpsonian 10 July 2016 06: 32
                    -2
                    It seems like something bothers you and your kind here to write trash in Russian about these events.
              2. kytx
                kytx 10 July 2016 11: 42
                0
                Look at the general! it’s wrong to transfer the standards of politeness of live communication to the network and is usually forced by near-minded people.
                "They can send them to x @@. It's the Internet, baby!" (from)
          2. Rokossovsky
            Rokossovsky 9 July 2016 21: 14
            +1
            Quote: Choi

            ... Or the people of China when they bombed Tokyo?


            Oh poor poor Japanese! I'll cry now!
            Does it bother you that the Japanese 35 killed millions of Chinese, no?
            Or the fact that Japanese soldiers massacred civilians like cattle ?!
            In comparison with the Japanese army, the SS, along with the UPA and other ubl # dkami, just kids!
            So it’s still easy to get off ...
            Minus you my! negative
            1. Tsoy
              Tsoy 10 July 2016 06: 15
              +1
              Quote: Rokossovsky
              Minus you my!


              Your right. Just read who the answer was. Above, a man wrote that the bombing is a barbarity of the US air force, I answered him that on this occasion the population of the cities that were bombed by Germany and Japan would have thought about it. Carefully read the next time to whom the appeal and what context. The people of China gladly accepted the bombing of Tokyo. So where is the pity for the Japanese in my words?
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 10 July 2016 06: 30
                +1
                The population of Soviet cities fell under the bombing with no joy the British and American bombing of Hiroshima and Dresden did not accept.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Rokossovsky
                Rokossovsky 10 July 2016 09: 24
                0
                Quote: Choi


                Your right. Just read who the answer was. Above, a man wrote that the bombing is a barbarity of the US air force, I answered him that on this occasion the population of the cities that were bombed by Germany and Japan would have thought about it. Carefully read the next time to whom the appeal and what context. The people of China gladly accepted the bombing of Tokyo. So where is the pity for the Japanese in my words?


                Maybe a little excited
                Apologize hi
                1. Tsoy
                  Tsoy 10 July 2016 11: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Rokossovsky
                  Apologize


                  hi drinks
        2. Stas57
          Stas57 9 July 2016 12: 18
          0
          Quote: Altona
          This barbaric method of bombing was used by the Royal Air Force and their American partners.

          it is necessary to go and take the flowers to the embassy ....
          it’s universal to moan, you, it’s so in your anti-Americanism that the Wehrmacht soldiers resisted the accursed Anglo-Saxons and went to put roses on them on the graves ..


          there was a war
          you know in Volgograd the corpses of children and women from the destroyed barges and boats sailed along the Volga. people were drowning, and the "gallant soldiers of the Luftwaffe", such as Rudels, stood in a circle and methodically bombed every boat, chased every cart across the steppe, and the city burned, 2000 planes ironed it, 6 sorties a day - a non-stop conveyor of death
          read.

          Valentina Dorofeeva: “On 23 of August we went with a girlfriend to the cinema. Bought a ticket - and suddenly an alarm. We are in the trench of all, which was at the cinema. 15 minutes passed or half an hour when we got out of the trench: everything burned, the trams burned, the rails were twisted. I don’t know how we ran. The German rained, rained these bombs like rain. Everything burned. ”

          Praskovya Serebryakova: “During the bombing, Stalingrad hospitals began to be evacuated to the opposite bank of the Volga. We crossed with them on a barge. Bombed constantly! Here is a water column, then there ... Both the wounded and the medical staff - all who were on the barge sat and whispered a prayer. We were numb with fear. Stalingrad was already burning all. ”

          http://www.vlg.aif.ru/society/details/1320618

          that's what you need to remember and know, not Dresden
          1. 97110
            97110 9 July 2016 14: 07
            +1
            Quote: Stas57
            that's what you need to remember and know, not Dresden

            And that would not remember and did not know, the authors specifically included in the text
            Not without similar actions and during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
            Poor, unhappy Germans who were sucked into the fire! Poor, miserable Japanese who were sucked into the fire! Poor, miserable Afghans who are sucked into the fire! Urgently regret the unfortunate people who fought with Russia! And support the inter-battalions stationed in Psheshland and Baldon! Until they sucked into the fire!
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 9 July 2016 16: 13
              -4
              And the poor unfortunate Russians who didn’t do this, but who will talk badly and think about them after reading moral comments ... on this site.
          2. Svidetel 45
            Svidetel 45 10 July 2016 00: 21
            +2
            We must remember everything, both Dresden and Stalingrad. Of course, you can sympathize with the civilians in Dresden, but by and large, there was a retribution, retribution, for what their sons and fathers in military uniform did in Russia. There is no doubt that if Hitler had the opportunity to arrange such bombing, carpet, Moscow, he would have arranged them.
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 10 July 2016 07: 13
              0
              and then spent the night in the winter in an open field like Napoleon

              At the very end of the war, the use of weapons of mass destruction was considered, for this purpose the Kurland boiler with its jump airfields was kept until the very end, even after the conscientious troops took Berlin.
              because of this, the earlier "co-workers" broke off in the Netherlands.
      3. Alex_Tug
        Alex_Tug 9 July 2016 22: 47
        0
        According to some historians, the purpose of the bombing of Dresden and other German cities, departing to the Soviet zone of occupation


        This is stated in the article.
      4. Baloo
        Baloo 19 October 2016 23: 21
        0
        Dresden retreated to the Soviet zone of occupation

        The Allies therefore ironed East Germany, so that the USSR would fall into ruins.
  3. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 9 July 2016 07: 40
    +4
    They tried to create a "fire storm" more than once, but it does not arise from the number of bombs dropped, but from a combination of many factors, primarily meteorological.
    K. Vonnegut has a novel about the bombing of Dresden - "Slaughterhouse number 5".
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Aleksander
      Aleksander 9 July 2016 12: 03
      -2
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      They tried to create a "fire storm" more than once, but it does not arise from the number of bombs dropped, but from a combination of many factors, primarily meteorological

      According to the survivors of the 23 bombardment of August 1942 in Stalingrad, there was this same FIRE STORM. The number of victims according to the latest data -70 000 people-comparable to atomic bombing.
      Officially bombed in Dresden railway-and she didn’t work after that for some time. Good for our front? Remarkably: the lives of hundreds and thousands of our soldiers have been preserved.
      Socorrectly bombed.
      The victims? Well, what to do, war ....
      1. super.ufu
        super.ufu 9 July 2016 13: 10
        +1
        in Stalingrad, according to the stories of the survivors, hell was happening, but everyone remembers only Dresden.
        1. 97110
          97110 9 July 2016 14: 18
          +3
          Quote: super.ufu
          but everyone remembers only Dresden.

          So EVERYONE only remembers the Holocaust, the genocide of Armenians in 1915. It is not necessary to remember the Chinese 35 million and the Soviet 27. It is imperative to remember the aggressiveness of Russia and the NATO bloc that does not threaten it at all.
        2. Svidetel 45
          Svidetel 45 10 July 2016 00: 28
          +1
          Naturally, only Dresden is remembered, because our strategists had nothing to remind that they could not prevent the bombing of Stalingrad, but Dresden was constantly talked about during the Cold War, because it was necessary to show the cruelty of the Anglo-Saxon military in the spirit of the general propaganda of that time ...
      2. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 11
        +4
        So she wasn’t bombed, like the only factory of optical sights, so they, like all other cargoes, went to the Eastern Front.
        As part of racial purges, Anglo-Americans selectively and purposefully destroyed only the German civilian population in the residential sector. At that time, they destroyed the Russians in the East with German hands, while delivering motor oils, tungsten and rubber to the Reich through neutral countries, from which the Wehrmacht depended entirely on imports since the summer of 1942.
    3. 97110
      97110 9 July 2016 14: 15
      -2
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      it arises not from the number of bombs dropped, but from a combination of many factors, primarily meteorological.

      First of all, high-power bombs are dropped (including sea mines) to destroy tiled roofs. The next echelon throws incendiary bombs onto the city without roofs, how many they brought. The city, preferably old, with narrow streets and tiled roofs. Meteorological factors - high-powered landmines? A large number of incendiary bombs? Medieval architecture? What rain can prevent a fire storm in such a city after the first two factors? Pressure? Cloud? Suddenly they will not fall because of the lack of visibility ??
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 9 July 2016 07: 48
    +2
    Something creepy from this article becomes ..
  5. Fox
    Fox 9 July 2016 09: 06
    +5
    they didn’t write about Tokyo ...
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 16
      0
      More about Toyama. Because it would immediately become clear even to a stupid one that this is not an "irony of fate" but a system of "universal human values."
  6. Basil50
    Basil50 9 July 2016 09: 27
    +7
    The authors, in a completely democratic style, threw wide * strokes * a picture * to the best of their understanding and, of course, at the end they kicked the SOVIET ARMY in the very spirit of the unforgettable Goebels. I don’t remember a single mention of * carpet bombing * in Afghanistan. Hey authors, why did you write this?
    1. Lekov L
      Lekov L 9 July 2016 11: 52
      +3
      Exactly. "picture"
      Moreover, the analysis itself is absent. And the topic is interesting not only from a socio-humanitarian political point of view, but also a military-technical one.
      In Afghanistan, as far as I remember (I myself was not, our research institute worked, but on the subject of the development of the UDF) there were no actual "carpet" ones. Aviation was used massively in isolated cases against the "fortified areas" of dushmans.
      The effectiveness of the application caused a variety of assessments: from "nothing remained - go barefoot" to "then they all climbed out of their holes"!
      It is interesting to listen to those who are in the subject, and not, forgive me for the sake of God, journalists.
      Actually then in the 80-x just SLM went into development ...
      Sincerely.
  7. igordok
    igordok 9 July 2016 09: 28
    +7
    in the beginning there were heavy minesweepers - the so-called blockbusters (“destroyers of blocks”), breaking through houses, followed by incendiary ones to complete the rout with fires.

    Carpet bombing had its own tactics. At first, heavy high-explosive bombs were used - “neighborhood destroyers”, “blockbusters”, then lighter incendiary bombs were poured into the breaches formed in the roofs, and the resulting fires completed the deadly work.

    Believed that the opposite. Destroyed houses burn badly. And incendiary bombs do not need destruction, they will be able to break through the roof and set fire to the attic, which is enough to cause a fire.
    P.S. This is a technical remark. And from the fact of mass destruction of people in a fiery whirlwind, it becomes terrible. Especially for the sake of politics.
    1. avt
      avt 9 July 2016 09: 51
      +3
      Quote: igordok
      . And from the fact of the mass destruction of people in a fiery whirlwind, it becomes terrible. Especially for the sake of politics.

      For what ? As in his youth, the colonel told us - "First there was Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima was the answer." Of course, many civilians died in Dresden, but what was Coventry first? Nothing that in the First World War the Germans tried to blow in Paris from the "Colossal" it seems that under the "curtain" they wanted to make an almost carpet raid, well, in accordance with the then possibilities. Then even the flyer Fedorov in the Frankish service seems to have died while repelling A Zeppelin bombardment of London? This is what I mean - propaganda is certainly a serious thing, but war not a sports competition for a long time, it used to be like the fighters went out and even canceled the fights as a result, well, this practice ended up in the duel between Chelubey and Peresvet. The current wars are already, yes, "in white gloves" are not waged, but more and more opponents strive to multiply each other to zero. So it is necessary to tune in to this.
      1. igordok
        igordok 9 July 2016 10: 06
        +3
        It is clear that "War is war". But the sight of the numerous bodies of burnt children and women in Dresden, Tokyo and many other places is not well received.
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 9 July 2016 11: 56
          +1
          and yet, look at the map of the bombing of London.

          and conclude for yourself whether an ordinary resident of Britain was crying from the sight of a burnt Dresden, and if there were tears, then there were tears of joy or sympathy.
        2. nnz226
          nnz226 9 July 2016 12: 33
          +2
          And in your opinion, the sight of numerous dead Soviet (or Chinese) women and children is perceived by you favorably ?! The Germans and Japanese paid for the "feats" of their soldiers to destroy the civilian population of the countries that the Germans and Japanese were the first to attack !!!
        3. 97110
          97110 9 July 2016 14: 29
          +2
          Quote: igordok
          But the view of the numerous bodies of burnt children and women in Dresden, Tokyo and many other places is not perceived favorably.

          And in Stalingrad, Leningrad? In concentration camps? Perceived?
    2. Stas57
      Stas57 9 July 2016 11: 48
      +4
      Quote: igordok
      P.S. This is a technical remark. And from the fact of mass destruction of people in a fiery whirlwind, it becomes terrible. Especially for the sake of politics.

      well, creepy, but I don’t, but the Germans at 70 for years remembered that the war is very bad, and if you started to wait for an answer.
      staying in a coffee shop or bar will not work until the war is somewhere there.

      but in general everything turned upside down. we curse the Americans for bombing our German enemies. Anti-Americanism is trending. And what a bad American, ah. ah.
      yes, the world has become universal ...
      Yes, and to hell with him, with Dresden, Goa and the rest. There was a war. I’m sure if Stalin had an atomic bomb or such an aircraft, he would have bombed Berlin in 41 and done it right.
      They all became gentle, they feel sorry for the Germans ... better regret the inhabitants of bombed Kiev or Volgograd.

      It is clear that "War is war". But the sight of the numerous bodies of burnt children and women in Dresden, Tokyo and many other places is not well received.

      but I don’t perceive favorably the competition of chopping off the heads of the Chinese, to a massive boom in the press, a massive zigzag to Hitler, and tears of joy.
      Zigoval- on, get, Loved the fühlel? On!
      Rejoiced at the bayonet-caught children, the loaf is vigorous.
      No, dear friend, you must spare your children who died in Leningrad or Minsk. Tortured, killed and starved to death.
      And strangers should know, in the rear do not sit tight, the war will get everyone and it is not known who will envy anyone. We did not start that war.
      1. Lekov L
        Lekov L 9 July 2016 12: 13
        +4
        I could have put ten advantages!
        their children who died in Leningrad or Minsk should be pitied. Tortured, killed and starved to death.
        And strangers should know, in the rear do not sit tight, the war will get everyone and it is not known who will envy anyone. We did not start that war.

        And we do not want the next war, but we should regret our children so that our enemies do not have any grandchildren.
        With great respect ... soldier
        1. Zerkalo
          Zerkalo 9 July 2016 21: 38
          +3
          So the fact of the matter is that we didn’t do it!
          The Soviet troops, of course, went through Germany with excesses (I repeat, who would have condemned them after so many years of war on our territory), but we did not do such actions! Probably, there were other goals, still not to destroy the Huns, but to leave for something.
      2. Zerkalo
        Zerkalo 9 July 2016 21: 35
        +3
        But who argues that the ancient rule of an eye for an eye is still relevant today!
        Just here is the question, what is the point of destroying precisely civilians? Everyone admitted that the Nazis are not humans! Yes, the Soviet troops had anger (who would dare to object to them) but to become like nonhumans ...
        In general, the most disgusting of the false standards of our allies. After all, it is clear that this is a demonstration of power with a hint to us! It was already clear that the Nazis lost, that's why it is disgusting from this action.
      3. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 10 July 2016 00: 35
        +1
        Dear, it was not Volgograd that bombed, but Stalingrad, we must remember this! God forbid, as they say, if they bomb the Volgograd.
    3. 97110
      97110 9 July 2016 14: 27
      0
      Quote: igordok
      Believed that the opposite.

      I read material about the experiments of the UK. There was a research program, there was a list of goals. The goal was chosen before the raid for meteorological reasons. The goal is necessarily a medieval city! The explosion of a powerful bomb destroyed the tiled roofs. And lighters from above fell into brick wells filled with flammable substances. The role of the blower is performed by doors and windows. And they bombed (experimented!) Every night. The British tried to solve the problem of not only the destruction of cities, but also the destruction of the psyche of the Germans. Every night minus one city! With the whole population! What happened - we learn in Estonia. A battalion of Germans born in the second generation from the English experiments will come. It is necessary for them to throw something burning in the arrangement. And see how crazy they are.
  8. King, just king
    King, just king 9 July 2016 11: 05
    +4
    I already wrote, somehow on this subject.
    What is such a sympathetic tone about the bombing issue? Was it just because Dresden was retreating to the USSR zone? Look you yo ... The enemy was bombed, which covered half the world with blood. "A tragic event for Germany" ... Yes to ... to Germany. "The tragedy of German cities" ... Don't give a damn about 1000 kg spitting on German cities.
    And figs with him with Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin. I’m not a maniac from Elm Street, but in this way I had to bomb ALL Germany, burn everything to ashes so that next time all kinds of merkels dare not yap at the winners.
    To paraphrase Weiners - THE ENEMY SHOULD LIE IN RUINS.
    EVERYTHING had to be taken out, to the nail, the Germans bare naked .. in the cold. They would have eaten the little men from starvation, they would have grown wiser.

    Well done and the Angles and the Americans and our pilots. Sorry, only a little bombed.
    1. Verdun
      Verdun 9 July 2016 11: 28
      0
      Quote: King, just king
      And figs with him with Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin.

      Even if we set aside humanitarian ideas, they say - civilians were dying, cultural monuments were destroyed and all that - practice shows that bombing cities during wars has a moral effect. And then, not in terms of undermining the spirit of those who are being bombed, but in terms of getting the bombers some moral satisfaction. After all, the leading military elite almost never becomes a victim of such bombing. It makes sense to bomb factories producing military equipment, ammunition depots, military units on the march or in places of concentration. It really helps to win the war, and not just get moral satisfaction.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 9 July 2016 12: 30
        0
        Quote: Verdun
        It makes sense to bomb factories producing military equipment, ammunition depots, military units on the march or in places of concentration. It really helps to win the war, and not just get moral satisfaction.


        he is a metal machine; it can be produced in three days.

        it’s a brick workshop, it can be rebuilt in a day.

        to grow a locksmith, welder extra class- 40 years.

        a locksmith drinks a coffee in the morning, eats a sausage, kisses his Martha, sits on a tram and goes on shift to make weapons that kill Russians, and Marta goes to the store to sell the sausage to the wives of other locksmiths.
        if they die, who will work for them?
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 9 July 2016 13: 24
          +2
          Quote: Stas57
          he is a metal machine, it can be made in three days

          You are catastrophically mistaken if you believe that a high-precision machine can be produced in three days.
          to grow a locksmith, welder extra class- 40 years.
          Where is the guarantee that during the bombing of the city you will fall into this locksmith? But at the moment when he is standing at the machine, in the factory, this probability increases significantly.
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 9 July 2016 13: 34
            0
            Quote: Verdun
            You are catastrophically mistaken if you believe that a precision machine can be produced in three days.

            Well, not for 3, but in any case it is reproducible. It is fast impossible to play highly professional work frames
            Quote: Verdun
            Where is the guarantee that during the bombing of the city you will fall into this locksmith? But at the moment when he is standing at the machine, in the factory, this probability increases significantly.

            nowhere, therefore everything is bombed - the plant, houses, roads, train stations, bridges, roads ..
            As in Dresden- 110 enterprises, an important railway junction
            1. Verdun
              Verdun 9 July 2016 14: 13
              0
              Quote: Stas57
              nowhere, therefore everything is bombed - the plant, houses, roads, train stations, bridges, roads ..
              As in Dresden- 110 enterprises, an important railway junction

              It is curious that it was the military experts of the countries that carried out carpet bombing during WWII that today are ardent supporters of precision strikes using precision weapons. Looks like they doubt the effectiveness of carpet bombing.
              1. Stas57
                Stas57 9 July 2016 14: 38
                +1
                Quote: Verdun
                It is curious that it was the military experts of the countries that carried out carpet bombing during WWII that today are ardent supporters of precision strikes using precision weapons. Looks like they doubt the effectiveness of carpet bombing.

                it is curious that it is precisely the experts of the countries, the ancestors of the various fashion for the cold store and the traditions of chivalry, who now advocate the firearm.
                miracles...
        2. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 9 July 2016 16: 10
          -1
          What does Marta have to do with it, and why not kill the locksmith after the factory? And how in the USSR did even children get up to machine tools?
  9. demiurg
    demiurg 9 July 2016 11: 07
    +3
    What else could bomb thousands of fortresses? They could not hit point targets from such a height. So they bombed the squares. The most profitable area targets are cities.
  10. Cat
    Cat 9 July 2016 11: 24
    +1
    And all the same, a request to the author to give an example of carpet bombing in Afghanistan. So that not ten houses in the village collapsed, but with the participation of 10-20 planes or helicopters.
    Kinks were always and everywhere, but about Avgan, so that specifically for the purpose of intimidation, we would take up an entire air regiment and bomb the peaceful city, I did not hear.
  11. Tsoy
    Tsoy 9 July 2016 11: 26
    0
    special strategy sometimes glitches ...

    In the photo there is a damaged tail of a bomb falling from above ...
  12. Tsoy
    Tsoy 9 July 2016 11: 27
    +2
    more bombs ...
  13. Tsoy
    Tsoy 9 July 2016 11: 28
    +2
    anti-aircraft fire density against aircraft ...
  14. nnz226
    nnz226 9 July 2016 12: 12
    +4
    In fact, Dresden is a "response" for Coventry, Rotterdam, Stalingrad, Voronezh and other cities demolished by the Luftwaffe .... The groan about the victims of Dresden is not clear: weren't those refugees who sent their men to the East for Slavic slaves, wept with happiness when to the Fuehrer's eyes, did not they shout "Heil!" ?! They thought that Reich No. 3 was forever, and they won’t get anything for it ?! They identified themselves - it will be that the Anglo-Saxons have implemented. In the bombed Soviet cities, too, not tank armies were killed, but women, children and the elderly ...
    1. super.ufu
      super.ufu 9 July 2016 13: 09
      +1
      I agree.
      completely clear reasons and consequences.
    2. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 59
      0
      There were street fights in these cities. In Coventry, only 500 civilians died throughout the war.
    3. iouris
      iouris 9 July 2016 23: 23
      +1
      Quote: nnz226
      In fact, Dresden is the "answer" for Coventry,

      In this case, the Russians should have razed everything to the ground in Germany.
      No, that's not the point. 1) The consequences of a nuclear strike were simulated and the effectiveness of nuclear weapons was assessed. 2) Prepared to occupy Germany, sought to morally break the "German spirit". 3) We were preparing for the post-war division of Europe "by strength" and wanted to demonstrate to the Russians the power of the Anglo-Saxon bombers.
      These bombings are a war crime of the USA and Britain.
  15. anton 13
    anton 13 9 July 2016 12: 33
    +1
    With the aim of seizing France, the Wehrmacht decided to bypass the well-fortified Maginot Line through Holland.

    AS????????????????
    1. Tsoy
      Tsoy 9 July 2016 12: 52
      0
      Quote: anton 13
      AS????????????????


      The compass has broken ... laughing
      Apparently confused with the Ardennes)
  16. kolya
    kolya 9 July 2016 12: 57
    -2
    People reading your customers had to register. You don’t think that killing civilians is always a crime no matter who killed them. they do not start a war.
    1. Sobol
      Sobol 9 July 2016 13: 33
      +2
      Quote: kolya
      People reading your customers had to register. You don’t think that killing civilians is always a crime no matter who killed them. they do not start a war.

      Those who brought Hitler to power and enthusiastically shouted to him Sieg Heil is not.
      1. kolya
        kolya 9 July 2016 14: 29
        0
        Before the war, he did a lot for the Germans. same autobahns for example
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 31
          -1
          And they did not have work under the previous government, and they could not live without it, especially in the city.
    2. 97110
      97110 9 July 2016 14: 36
      +1
      Quote: kolya
      reading your customers

      Translate. And it’s not clear why you registeredИwere cut.
    3. Tsoy
      Tsoy 9 July 2016 14: 56
      0
      murder is always a crime, but in this case it was a war, and what can we say, these people admired the victories of Hitler, glorified their army to the winner and did not think at all about those who died in other countries. When the German and Japanese populations began to act in the same way as they once did, the cries of humanists are heard immediately. The Germans, like the Japanese, have realized that war is not only reports in newspapers and on the radio, but also falling on the heads of a roaring enemy's bomb.
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 27
        -1
        So Carrie and Obama were right that you should never and under no circumstances apologize for Hiroshima?
        1. Tsoy
          Tsoy 9 July 2016 16: 23
          +2
          Quote: Simpsonian
          circumstances do not go apologize for Hiroshima?


          Did the Japanese apologize to the people of Nanking? They only last year recognized the fact of forced prostitution. Moreover, compensation will be paid only to Korean women, who have fallen into the houses of comfort for Japanese soldiers. The Chinese do not just hate the Japanese for nothing. 35 million in China versus less than 100 thousand in Hiroshima and who should apologize?
          1. Simpsonian
            Simpsonian 9 July 2016 16: 52
            -1
            For the massacre? There, the Chinese slaughtered the Chinese, in China there was a civil war ... The Japanese also have war crimes, but before the Americans they grow and grow.

            So you don't have to apologize for Hiroshima, do you think so? Striking a city full of hospitals like Dresden, in exchange for a strike on the Port Arthur naval base, was that correct?
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 9 July 2016 21: 28
              -1
              Pearl Harbor, sorry ... lol
            2. Tsoy
              Tsoy 10 July 2016 06: 29
              0
              Quote: Simpsonian
              There the Chinese slaughtered the Chinese, in China there was a civil war ... There are war crimes on the Japanese too, but before the Americans they grew and grew.


              What? Your right to think so, that in Nanjing, the Chinese themselves cut out. Yep From 200 to 300 thousands. Yep What makes you think of it? And besides Nanking, the 731 squad remains, a terrible appeal to prisoners of war, murder, torture, cannibalism. Did the US do the same?
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 10 July 2016 06: 40
                -2
                It’s your right to look at the photo of how the Chinese in Nankik are cut off from the living Chinese in pieces and eat at the same time. An order of the especially feverish 1000 Japanese then executed for this and looting.
                All Japanese terrible atrocities can not be compared with the American.

                Your beloved United States supplied Japan with everything necessary for a war in China for 10 years, then they introduced an oil embargo for the species and immediately five times superior to the Japanese in the strength they handed over the oil-bearing Phidippines and Indonesia to them so that it could fight further in China.
            3. Mikhail Matyugin
              Mikhail Matyugin 13 July 2016 01: 01
              0
              Quote: Simpsonian
              The Japanese also have war crimes, but to the Americans they grow and grow.

              On the contrary, if we compare both in scale and in the number of victims. Just the Japanese have a different attitude to life and death, to the value of human life. In Asia, they were clearly superior to the Germans in cruelty (although those leaders were in Europe).

              And the Americans - well, this is an open question - was it worth it or not to use the bombing. Japan has repeatedly been offered to capitulate. She refused.
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 13 July 2016 03: 48
                0
                No "open questions", the Americans simply destroyed the Japanese civilian population by bombing, violating absolutely all conventions, just like the British did the German. For such a revenge is not surrendered, revenge in both cases was prevented by the USSR.
              2. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 13 July 2016 03: 52
                0
                Japanese cruelty is far from Chinese.
          2. Simpsonian
            Simpsonian 9 July 2016 17: 18
            -2
            The Nanjing massacre, when the Chinese slaughtered the Chinese after the Japanese occupied the city and the power of the ruling party fell, was in 1937, at which time the United States, England and Holland were in full supply to Japan of oil, other raw materials and equipment from the import of which Japan’s ability to wage war in China for all her time depended entirely (before the imposition of the oil embargo and the subsequent surrender to all the same Japanese of Indonesia and Phillippine).

            The United States, England and Holland would not want Japan to apologize to China for their explicit and open support of Japan at this time against China?
            1. Tsoy
              Tsoy 11 July 2016 08: 11
              0
              Quote: Simpsonian
              Nanjing Massacre, when the Chinese cut the Chinese


              You only in China do not tell such nonsense, they will bury you there for this alive. To argue with you is meaningless. At least one link can you give where it says about Nanking in your key?
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 11 July 2016 17: 31
                0
                There are many such links, you can find it yourself. As well as photographs of how the Chinese then made shawarma from living Chinese. You can also google photos and videos of criminals standing in line in front of the crowd on the square "doctors" take out organs for transplantation, or executions to which they run to devour fresh brains. And show them - suddenly they do not know.
                In Nanking, during a bombardment from a crush and asphyxiation in a bomb shelter, where Chinese citizens drove and locked the Chinese, more than 5000 were killed, and 300 in a city under Japanese bombs.
                1. Tsoy
                  Tsoy 11 July 2016 17: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Simpsonian
                  There are many such links, you can find it yourself.


                  Well, if a lot, give at least one. Why should I look for something that does not exist? You claim, so the burden of proof lies on you. Under what bombs and which 5000? In 6 weeks, the Japanese slaughtered from 40 to 300 thousands of Chinese. How do you like the competition for the number of heads cut off? Samurai won Mukai with the result in 106 people. Apparently in the photo below, the Chinese are burying themselves alive? Behind this, I am moving away, reading nonsense and fantasies, nepoymi who have no desire.
                  1. Simpsonian
                    Simpsonian 11 July 2016 18: 19
                    0
                    Well, find them all yourself, as well as about the fact that the Chinese were brought in by Trotsky and the Russians in Yaroslavl and do not write that they are not.
                    And stop repeating your golimous nonsense, you might think that then Chiang Kai-shek did not fight with Mao for four years, and now all those Japanese are engaged in public executions with similar "gourmand" and public transplantation in China in color.
                    Yours, genuine or not, didn’t ask you to post. It would be better to post how American sailors shoot Japanese pilots in the water or take photos with fried Japanese as a trophy on a hunt with their katana.
                    1. Simpsonian
                      Simpsonian 11 July 2016 18: 23
                      0
                      I don’t whitewash the Japanese, they would be better at home, but they are far from the same Chinese and especially Ango-Americans.
                      You can post more photos of Hiroshima
              2. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 13 July 2016 17: 29
                0
                Stalin openly said that "the Chinese are more at war with each other than with the Japanese", division for division, army for army, general with general, what is there before" some "massacre. These words of his are not a problem to find. And he did not support Mao in this. Who got out of the corner he controlled only when the Japanese were in Manchuria and China was gone.

                You have something like "burying alive" walks from comment to comment, pay attention to this ... It is proved that almost all photos with the participation of the Japanese in Nankai are photoshop, and very mediocre. Up to the point that on some of the most famous shadows do not coincide with the figures.
      2. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 56
        -2
        And in this case, in the war, before these Anglo-Saxon exploits, the conventions established in Geneva and The Hague by the way by the Russian Tsar worked. Then, already in the USSR, no one had the illusions of whom and how in the USSR, after Germany and Japan, having shown their faces there, the general people gathered to bomb the atomic.
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 10 July 2016 02: 59
          0
          ... which obviously does not make a difference in the city between the population and factories, even if the industrial zone is large and the atomic bomb is small.

          Anglo-Americans, due to the large number of bombers, had the opportunity to inflict destruction with conventional bombardments comparable to WMD, but selectively, they inflicted a selective bomb ... only residential areas
      3. Zerkalo
        Zerkalo 9 July 2016 21: 45
        +2
        Why then did the winner not slaughter the entire population without exception? Anyone above the cart check? we have the right! 27 million of our inhabitants died - let's cut down two or three times more! Why did Stalin not only not do this, but even forbade something similar to be arranged in Germany ??? What stupid person was that? No no and one more time no! Answer please.
  17. kolya
    kolya 9 July 2016 14: 42
    +1
    Comments
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 24
      -1
      characterize
  18. certero
    certero 9 July 2016 14: 44
    +1
    The bombing of the cities gave little to victory over Germany. Just as soon as they switched to bombing roads and factories, immediately the production of equipment began to decrease.
    According to modern views, these are war crimes. But then the times were simpler. The main thing is that those messers and fokers who went to intercept the flying fortresses did not fly over the Soviet troops. And it brought victory closer.
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 9 July 2016 15: 23
      -2
      Mostly Do-17s with a large cannon or high-altitude jet Me-262s flew to intercept the bombers, and there was nothing to do with both of them on the Eastern Front. The supplies of engine oil to the American "Standard Oil" to the Nazis delayed the Second World War for almost 3 years. From the summer of 1942, the Wehrmacht depended entirely on their continuation.
    2. 97110
      97110 9 July 2016 16: 40
      +1
      Quote: certero
      and the fokers that went to intercept flying fortresses,

      Please indicate the Fokker model. This is not "Focke-Wulf-190" you mean? Fokker (Dutch. Fokker) - Dutch aircraft company, which bore its name in honor of the founder - Anton Fokker.
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 9 July 2016 17: 21
        -1
        Is it really that important here?
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 9 July 2016 19: 44
        +2
        Quote: 97110
        Please indicate the Fokker model. This is not "Focke-Wulf-190" you mean? Fokker (Dutch. Fokker) - Dutch aircraft company, which bore its name in honor of the founder - Anton Fokker.

        FV190
        his Russian folk is "Fokker".
        31 pilot IAP Leonid Maslov (personally shot down 6 planes, of which four FW 190, and 9 in the group)
        I walked along with Kalashenko. Our link was connected by the battle of fighters. We were defeated with the host, we are fighting separately. One "fokker" rolled off. I am to the leader. I look, another "fokker" on a shaver escapes to himself. I pressed him. I think it’s necessary to bring down faster, otherwise the fuel will not be enough. The regiment commander taught us: “I saw rivets - shoot”

        Helot of the 113 Guards. Iap Pavel Boykov.
        - To compensate for this shortcoming, the Nazis created mixed groups. "Fokkers", as a rule, went lower


        Golodnikov Nikolay Gerasimovich.
        And here is the six Me-109F, to cover the convoy and ensure the strike on our boats of the six FV-190 with bombs. Here I am with my six. The Fokkers went lower, and the Messers were 500 meters taller than them. Spin ... I then built a good attack. He went from the side of the sun, in excess and attacked the whole six at the beginning of the "Messer". I knock down one, skip past them and immediately, continuing the attack, knock down the fokker.
  19. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 9 July 2016 15: 28
    -2
    The carpet bombing created the ILLUSION of omnipotence in the Anglo-Saxon leadership. They secretly suffered from an inferiority complex, especially after the German counterstrike in the Ardennes, which almost ended in disaster with the complete collapse of the second front. Before the landing in Normandy, these ... could not do anything with Germany at all. Except how to bomb and bomb it, it is stupid and ineffective, losing up to 10% of bombers during a combat mission! There, crew losses amounted to several divisions! Hitler was an uneducated psychopath who tried to defeat Britain with bombing and "superweapon" attacks. Having a jet fighter in the 42nd year! He began to convert it into an "invulnerable" bomber. And when he was needed as a fighter, time was lost, and the pilots were killed. A similar situation is with the Vesserfal, a ground-guided anti-aircraft missile. It was guided - like the PTUPS of the first generations - by the three-point method, but if they spent as much effort and money on these missiles as on the generally useless Fau, they would close the sky from the Anglo-Saxon armada. We would have broken the back of Hitler anyway - since it is not fighters and air defense missiles that decide the fate of the offensive of the fronts, but IMHO there would be no Anglo-Saxons in Europe at all. And there would be no one to threaten us by placing WHOLE BATTALIONS in Pshekia and Pribaltyafkalki.
    1. 97110
      97110 9 July 2016 16: 48
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      but, IMHO, in Europe there would be no Anglo-Saxons from the word - at all. And there would be no one to threaten us, deploying WHOLE BATTALIONS in Przekia and the Baltic states.

      Unfortunately, a donkey with a golden coin is to blame for whole battalions more than Hitler’s mistakes in the fight against arrogant Saxons. Let us remember, not bothering the living Michal Sergeyevich and Boris Nikolayevich who had time to do so during his lifetime. Should these tools of arrogant Saxons, who destroyed the Soviet Union, be remembered forever. So as not to happen again ...
  20. certero
    certero 9 July 2016 16: 16
    -1
    Quote: Simpsonian
    Do-Xnumx with a large cannon or high-altitude jet Me-xnumx flew to intercept the bombers, and there was nothing to do with that and the durgim on the Eastern Front

    Both the 190 Focke-Fulves and the 109 Messerschmitts flew to intercept the bombers. However, the lack of jet aircraft on the Eastern Front is also a big plus on the spacecraft.
    Do not be like our Western "partners" and forget that the United States and Britain were our allies in that war. And that Victory is also their merit. Only honest knowledge, without humiliation and without hushing up, allows you to see the whole picture.
    1. 97110
      97110 9 July 2016 16: 51
      0
      Quote: certero
      Do not be like our Western "partners" and forget that the United States and Britain were

      the initiators, the main culprits and the main beneficiaries of the Second World War.
      Quote: certero
      The Focke-Fulves 190 and Messerschmitts 109 flew to intercept the bombers.
      But what about the "Fokkers" you mentioned above? Didn't you fly? Or did they fly?
    2. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 9 July 2016 21: 00
      +1
      To a lesser extent than Do-17, Me-410 and Me-262. Me-262 is useless in speed and maneuverability at heights at which fights were fought on the Eastern Front,
      Honestly, this is when they write about the supply of engine oil to the Nazis by the "allies", without which the Wehrmacht could not have fought the USSR in the summer of 1942.
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 9 July 2016 21: 07
        0
        it's still honest when they write that natural Brazilian anti-corrosion varnish for duralumin was supplied to Nazi Germany and the "allies", but was not supplied to the USSR for any money, so the Soviet Air Force had almost no all-metal aircraft and this metal was forced to go to the cylinder blocks of tank engines ...

        There are many more "honestly" ...
  21. Cat
    Cat 9 July 2016 18: 44
    +1
    About human sacrifice. I don’t remember whose quote “there is no war with a human face”. Do not twist it, but Dresden is a pity, but Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sevostopol and others tens of thousands of our cities, villages and villages? We did not start this war, but our grandfathers and great-grandfathers won a victory in it. At the cost of 27 million lives. And honor and praise to them that behind their backs and on their conscience there are no residents of Dresdan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Low bow to you, our veterans, that we, your descendants, are not ashamed of you.
    Threefold Cheers, Cheers, Uraaaaa !!!
  22. fa2998
    fa2998 9 July 2016 19: 40
    0
    Quote: Simpsonian
    as many civilians as possible.

    I dare to note that civilians form a mobilization reserve of any country. And also "civilians" work in military factories, forge weapons. And about hospitals, I will note that the participants of the "blitzkrieg" are treated there - what give them the opportunity to get back into operation!? RIGHT GERMAN BOMBIES , SOWED THE WIND-REST A STORM !! Panic and doom in the camp of the enemy is not bad! Well, on the Eastern Front (we have), a significant relief - the whole war the Germans kept half of the fighter aircraft (and not the worst) in Germany. And the work was carried out on the development of new fighters - night, jet, etc., specifically against the strategic bombers of the Allies. angry hi
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 9 July 2016 20: 59
      0
      The concept of "mobilization reserve" began to abolish the "conventions" and the "red cross"?

      Some raids on Germany by the "allies", with their bombing almost exclusively of the residential sector, and so that the civilians would not be saved, began after the best part of the Luftwaffe died or was captured in the Kuban (including more than half of the aces).
      You also have problems with the rest of the statistics, so poke your fists in your nose under the hat.
  23. SerB60
    SerB60 10 July 2016 03: 23
    0
    Quote: Forest
    By that time, the war had already ended. In the air, almost 20 is a multiple superiority of the Allied aviation, on the ground 10-15 is a multiple superiority in artillery and armored vehicles. And the bombardment did not cause any harm to the remaining troops. In general, war - one of the most clearly controlled processes in the life of mankind - I do not know such that billions are clearly subordinated to one goal and act in only one direction. Majors and deserters in the rear — they DO NOT generally affect the course of hostilities, except for one thing — the fewer they are, the more resources will go to the workers at the factories and soldiers to the front. Everything.

    Like Dresden belonged to the zone of responsibility of the USSR, (I'm on the line of demarcation of Germany between the allies) and our army was 60 km away. Article minus. I read that in response to the accidental, almost from one plane, German bombing of an English city, they responded with massive bombing of German cities. A reason to wait?
  24. red1970
    red1970 10 July 2016 03: 48
    +1
    Retaliation actions interesting for Americans and English! Following their principles, Stalin had to give the order to destroy half of the population of Europe, following the proportions of the destroyed civilians of England and the USA in comparison with the number of civilians of Germany and Japan destroyed by the allies. After all, not only Germans, but also representatives of other countries fought with the USSR.