In the Russian Federation, the development of a heavy engine for the Russian-Chinese airliner has begun

Moscow informed Beijing about the start of work on creating an engine for a joint long-range wide-body aircraft, reports TASS message of Dmitry Rogozin.

At the signing of the memorandum, 2014

“In addition, we informed the Chinese side about the start of work on the heavy Russian aviation an engine in the segment of up to 35 tons, the decision to create which was recently made in May by the President of Russia, corresponding funds were allocated. This practically solves the issue related to the creation of a long-range wide-body aircraft, because the aircraft is impossible without an engine, ”said the Deputy Prime Minister.

“The engine should be two, not four, as it is now. Until now, so far neither in the Soviet Union, nor in the Russian Federation has there been such a production, such a powerful engine. They produce only General Electric and Rolls-Royce. Now this kind of engine will appear for this joint Russian-Chinese project, ”he noted.

According to Rogozin, the parties also agreed that the Russian and Chinese airlines will determine the resource of those aircraft that are already working on the leading lines.

“Why is it necessary to define a resource? So that we have to understand the epoch-making of the emergence of a niche, when Western planes are already out of service, and when there is a need for the appearance of our own new board. And such work will be carried out in the next few months, ”he said.

Recall that a memorandum on the creation of a new airliner was signed by the parties in April 2014.

Comments

[Siberian]

The statement is beautiful, but we’ll see how it actually works out. If only the financing of the project and the interest in it by both parties would not run out.

[Khariton]

Quote: Siberian

The statement is beautiful, but we’ll see how it actually works out. If only the financing of the project and the interest in it by both parties would not run out.

Well, from where it is necessary to begin the restoration of our aviation industry (civilian) ... Yes expensive, but there are prospects! Experience and specialists are available so far!

[jaguar]

Until now, neither in the Soviet Union, nor in the Russian Federation have there been such production, such a powerful engine. Absolutely complete nonsense !!!!! We have developed the nk-93 engine ... the fifth generation engine .... it remains to be brought to mind ..... but in order to please the Boeing and Airbus it was ruined by Manturov and Poghosyan everywhere

[Temples]

Jaguar, do not boil.
There was really no production.
Now, God willing, will appear.
What is wrong with these actions?

[Kasym]

Jaguar. The new engine should be 30t thrust, NK-93 thrust up to 18t, and the most powerful D-18T 23,4t. Another thing is that will they apply everything that has been worked out on the NK-93, of which 11 pieces have been made, and wonder what size it will be?

[siberalt]

It seems, again, as always. We will, and the Chinese will copy. And about the miscalculation of resources, too, muddy. As if Western companies are not counting it.

[Berkut24]

The trouble with the Chinese is that they cannot copy the engines. It’s not enough to disassemble the engine into spare parts - each spare part of a modern engine is know-how with its alloy, hardening process and, as a result, unique mechanical and temperature properties. These are not rivets in the second shift. They still can’t even launch the engines for 4th generation fighters.

[sinoptic]

Nafig us these Chinese!
We have to do it ourselves, earn money ourselves!

If the Chinese begin to stamp wide-body aircraft, we will not stand any competition with them. Nobody will work for us for a cup of rice.

[g1v2]

The market for long-haul passenger aircraft in the Russian Federation is only about 120 pieces. For the sake of such a small market, creating a new, modern aircraft is simply not profitable - it will not pay off. There were 2 solutions - a serious modernization of the il96 or a joint aircraft with the Chinese. In the end, both will seem to be. The main thing here is not money or technology, but access to the huge Chinese market. If we were allowed to do so simply, it would make sense to develop our own new plane, but they won’t let us go there. But a joint aircraft - quite.

[Karlovar]

ZP v Kitae vysche, cem v Rossii ... Srednjaja ZP v kitajskih gorodah 800-1000 dollarov v mesjac (intelligencija bolsche, rabotjagi-mensche) ... Na sele- deli na 2-3, no i eto sopostavimo so srednej ZP v Rossii, pro rossijskuju derevnju molcu ....

[g1v2]

But in Switzerland it is even higher and what does it mean? Our salaries are very different in different regions. The same engineers, where they get up to one and a half thousand in dollars, and where 300 dollars. Look at the map. Our country is huge and very different from region to region. Including from the local governor depends. Well, the price of a communal apartment is clearly lower than in Europe the same. And for example, people who left for Europe in the 90s (middle class) come to us in St. Petersburg and when their call to the middle restaurant marks the meeting, they refuse, motivating that they cannot afford it. In our region, for example, the Internet is much cheaper than in many EU countries and so on. Why compare - xs. I have two operators. I bought Samsung phones for 56 thousand rubles drunk - not the oligarchs, but just hard workers. And in other places the same operators need to save a year for it.
Or take even one region - the Krasnodar Territory. Friends came. The salary in Sochi or Krasnodar is significantly different from the salaries in Temryuk, for example. It is within the same region. Comparing with foreign countries is foolish, even if everything is different in Russia.

[Karlovar]

V Kitae ZP ot mestnogo gubernatora silno ne zavisjat (razbeg 10-20%). A inzenera putnye tam vysche 3000 dollarov polucajut .... Uciteli, prepody v universitetah ot 1500 dollarov, pro professorov molcu .... Nu a ceny v srednem v Kitae i segodnja nize rossijskih, daze pri nyneschnem kurse rublja .... Syn znakomogo (manager srednego zvena, 3 goda kak zakoncil pekinskij univer) v ofise firmy polucaet 2000 dollarov ....

[weksha50]

Quote: siberalt

It seems, again, as always. We will, and the Chinese will copy.

In this particular case, this project is beneficial for us for many reasons ... And Chinese investments, and the time-development of our own technologies ...

If Russia finally creates the production of powerful aircraft engines for civilian (read further - in development - transport and long-distance), then it will be great ...

And the fact that the Chinese will copy ... They copy a lot of things, but not everything succeeds ...
The only thing they don’t talk about, but it seems to me that our production technologies will be transferred later ... The Chinese cannot just get into this project with money ...

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: jaguar

hk-93.

NK-93 has too large a diameter, for IL-76 it’s normal, but what about low-wing aircraft?

[Scoun]

Quote: Siberian

The statement is beautiful, but we’ll see how it actually works out.

two years have passed since the "memorandum".

a memorandum on the creation of a new airliner was signed by the parties in April 2014.

Quote: jaguar

but for the sake of Boeing and Airbus he was ruined by Manturov

Manturov is still the shot who lobbies him and dances him, so far everyone hiccups from his February 2014. balabolisty about metal.

[Karlovar]

Bystro koschky rodjatsja ...

[sergey2017]

There was already a conversation about this and Rogozin mentioned it earlier! The project is China's investment in the Russian aviation industry, with the goal of creating an engine for a joint long-range wide-body aircraft!

[Karlovar]

Klucevoe slovo-investicii ... v uslovijah to deficita budzeta ...

[Verdun]

Quote: Siberian

The statement is beautiful, but we’ll see how it actually works out.

Yes, this is correct. You can't fly on a memo. But what worries me personally about many of the plans announced by Russia is their extremely distant dates. If we had been developing our economy at such a pace before WWII, then we would have had to fight on Nieuporas and Russian Renault tanks.

[samoletil18]

Technology to technology. The LaGG-3 became La-7 in three years. It took some seven years from BT-2 to T-34. And compare with them the T-72, for example, which fifty dollars sticks.
By the way, how great our great-grandfathers lived: every year something new, breakthrough, and we only see such an update on gadgets, but only in essence, for example, a smartphone with android 2 does not have a fundamental difference with android 5.

[Barakuda]

Well, I hope the grandchildren fly .. (although I don’t know what my daughter has in her plans) Himself the first time 9 days old .. flew, prodry all three hours. Tu-154 B-2.
Good luck to the designers!

[Observer2014]

Baracuda (3) UA

Well, I hope the grandchildren fly .. (although I have no plans for my daughter’s plans) winked

The fewer daughters have plans, the faster grandchildren appear And at the expense of the Russian-Chinese airliner. So Russia is returning with the entire line of civil aviation. "Super Jet", "MS-21" and here you are a wide-body aircraft. Why with the Chinese. Yes, the sales market, because it will immediately be huge. And the production of wide-body aircraft. passenger planes are not cheap, so it’s better what the Europeans do.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Observer2014

Yes, the market because huge immediately

+ for example, there are about 21 orders for the MS-170, about 919 aircraft for the Chinese analogue of Comac C550. Thus, a wide-body aircraft must receive many orders of at least 500 for sure.
I’m interested in something else, I recently compared the price of developing modern aircraft. Airbus spent 380 billion euros on developing the A12, and 350 billion euros on the A-12.
In turn, the Boeing spent $ 787 billion on the 32 program. Where does such a large amount come from? For $ 30 billion, Airbus has developed 2 aircraft, and a Boeing 1 aircraft.

[Karlovar]

Rynok sbyta-pervoe delo ... Boing s Airbasom v ES i USA ni z zizn ne pustjat s kucej * predlogov * ...

[gridasov]

They will let them in, even in the case of the introduction of innovative developments. Unless, of course, moving repeating the old designs, it goes without saying that their engines are more refined.

[Karlovar]

Boing i Airbas-ne lohy, ne spjat .... Innovacionnye razrabotki oni-to kak-raz i dvigajut na segodnja ...

[gridasov]

I believe that the Boing i Airbas are facing the same problem as the Russians. Modern engines operate on an outdated scheme of basic physical principles, which are useless to upgrade further. Motors brought to a critical limit of excellence. You just need to go to new concepts of the organization of the physical process in the engine. Therefore, I can assure you that they also do not know the solutions and ways of further development, like all others. We just need fundamental solutions to create an engine based on new physical algorithms. a process that will be simpler, orders of magnitude more efficient, orders of magnitude more economical and most importantly sound, which cannot be said about modern engines. In general, we are still trying to find interested in Russia, but all is useless.

[aba]

Why not purely Russian ?!

[donavi49]

And what is the benefit of the Chinese? They themselves want to receive technology, production. Otherwise, they will go to GE / PP and buy there, as they do now.

[Karlovar]

SP-eto biznes 50:50 ... 50% -malaja vygoda ???

[fzr1000]

Eat then he eat, the one who will give him (China) ....

[Engineer]

because only Ilyushinskoye KB was engaged in wide-body aircraft, and in fact, only a sign and managers remained from it.

[Karlovar]

V tom cisle ... No dokumentacia ostalas-taki ....

[Karlovar]

Dengi nema ... Elektroniki nema ...

[samoletil18]

So there he is! New Chinese (!) Engine for Y-20.

[Engineer]

no, no and no, for the Y-20 there will be many such engines

[fzr1000]

In the sense of two engines.

[samoletil18]

I can not disagree with the Engineer.

[dchegrinec]

Joint projects with the allies cannot but rejoice.

[Riv]

Is our Superjet already all? Let's get a joint plane with the Chinese? Vorje.

[Engineer]

Have you read the headline? Superjet is a regional squalor, and in the article about a long-range wide-body aircraft with powerful engines like a Boeing 787

[rabbi's pais]

Quote: Engineer

Superjet - regional squalor

Why immediately squalor?

[Kasym]

Not squalor of course, but it’s not quite suitable for the conditions of the Russian Federation. The engines are located very low, which indicates that we need good runways at airfields (not to mention unpaved) - so now we need to invest in take-off. stripes across the country in order to properly operate it.
I liked the Yak-40 (albeit not a classmate; Yak-42), but you could even land on the primer. Why not upgrade it for local lines with modern capabilities?

[Genry]

Quote: Kasym

I liked the Yak-40 (albeit not a classmate; Yak-42), but you could even land on the primer. Why not upgrade it for local lines with modern capabilities?

Yak-40 was abandoned due to its fundamentally outdated design and low efficiency.
Disadvantages:
- three engines - immediately 1,5 times more expensive service;
- the engines are located in the wrong place - the dirt from under the front landing gear, rises and directly flies into the turbine;
- during an emergency-hard landing with a fuselage split, fuel spills in the cabin and ignition occurs.

Now preparing for the release of IL-112. Already this year two experimental samples will be collected. This is, in fact, a machine for unpaved airfields.
Something is wrinkling around the IL-114, it is apparently easier to do everything in a new way.

[Riv]

Duc cho ... I can’t bring my plane to mind, but the Chinese are always ready. There is no need to go far for explanations. Nobody will give more money for diabetes and there is nothing to cut.
Thief is.

[Genry]

Quote: Riv

Nobody will give more money for diabetes and there is nothing to cut.

Tryndet - do not toss bags!
The SuperJet is developing. Now they are making an extended version of "NG" with more seats. The purely Russian PD-10 engine based on the PD-14 will also be used for Sukhoi aircraft.

[donavi49]

Why do they need SSJ? They have their own SSJ, albeit a losing SSJ in everything, but their own. There are bargain prices for watermelons. And the growth of China, the need increases precisely the dimensions of 727 / 320, and not 100 locals. They have 747 like minibuses fly on 30-40 minute flights.

[g1v2]

Purely for educational program so that nonsense is not written. Russian airlines have 4 classes of passenger aircraft in flight range.
1. The short-haul - originally calculated on an148, and the superjet was designed for export. However, after breaking with ukraine, the superjet became the main short-haul aircraft and it is it that is being promoted in the Russian Federation. The market for such aircraft is approximately 200-250 aircraft. This is a small piece of the market, so you have to focus on promotion abroad - hence the decent part of imported parts for promotion on foreign markets. Mexicans and Irish have already promoted him well with their contracts.
2. The medium-haul - ms21. The market for 450-500 aircraft in the Russian Federation. Here you can already earn on your market and export abroad is not critical.
3. The long-haul is the problem. The market is scanty - 120 pieces, and it is not profitable to design a new modern aircraft for it. IL96 is disadvantageous for airlines. Therefore, they do not take it. Temporary measure - they are going to upgrade silt 96, but this is still not new. The solution is seen here in this joint aircraft so that it can be sold in China and Asia.
4. Regional, for local airlines with the ability to land on small unprepared airfields and soil. Simply put, the replacement of an24. The market for such aircraft in the Russian Federation - about 130 pieces. Initially, it was planned to replace it with the an140, but now the main option was to expand the production of the upgraded il114. They promise to start production in 2019.
PM are different segments of the market and although they intersect, they are few.

[samoletil18]

In the Sverdlovsk region production of L-410 is unfolding. Ilam is a good addition if you get localization on the engine.

[Rostislav]

This is great news.
Go the right way, comrades! (C)

[Skubudu]

A wide-body passenger airliner, a sophisticated car, there are only two manufacturers on the market, Boeing and Airbus. If we create a car that meets all the requirements and organize good service and production of spare parts, maybe we can move our competitors, our plane should be much cheaper.

[donavi49]

About the price would argue. Watermelon and Boeing are being built in gigantic series and this allows them to play long marketing when the catalog price is squeezed - and profitability goes to the 1000 aircraft, and considerable money comes from the operation of already flying boards (service, regulations, modernization, supervision).

Plus, the Western miracle tool Leasing for a penny, on the same long marketing + liberal banking policy (which allows even small companies to exploit a new A320 for a penny, for example). Leasing from IF is much more expensive.

Beginners are forced to play short marketing, that is, the profitability of the 100-200-300 aircraft, and this naturally increases the price of the aircraft itself.

[Berber]

A rolling stone gathers no moss. If you don’t work, but panic every time, nothing naturally fails. If they were able to organize support for their enterprises, why can't we?

[Skubudu]

If you compare by analogy with the MS-21 - Boeing 737 - A321
MS-21 is already 20% cheaper, and it has just begun to produce.

[Karlovar]

Do 40-go goda Kitaj planiruet zakupit okolo 5000-6000 bortov ... Cem ne objemy ???

[Gray brother]

NK-93? Maybe even with the Chinese they would bring him to mind, otherwise they would freeze him already from the 80s and to design an airplane under an unfinished engine, there weren’t anyone who wanted to.

[vv3]

In general, I really like the question. What to create? Look, the MS-21 was rolled out with American engines!? How is it? We have been trumpeted for victory for a long time, in terms of creating a family of the latest engines based on PD-14 ... And the most powerful in this line almost reaches the right one, or in extreme cases can be developed on this base ... We have that Guide enemies and traitors? Or just stupid people. In the case of the MS-21, it’s just nonsense. We all, the whole country spat in the face ... I would like to know who did it and why? And what punishments follow, I want a public investigation ... I don’t understand history with SAM146. Some say that it is fully certified and with fully computerized documentation and is available from us. And others say that the hot part of the gas generator is brought only in France and this is their exclusive and they won’t give it away .... Tales constantly tell us, or rather they simply lie ... Are we a country of fools and idiots?

[Berber]

I think that not everything is so bad. MS is designed for a wide range of customers, therefore, with different engine options. And PD14 is good because other engines will do on its basis.

[Genry]

Quote: vv3

Look, the MS-21 was rolled out with American engines!? How is it?

The first experimental aircraft are always made with used engines. PD-14 is not such. When they bring the plane, then they will begin to set the PD. And the engine, optionally, can be chosen by the customer, this increases the sales market for the MS-21.

Quote: vv3

Do we have enemies and traitors in the leadership? Or just stupid people.

It looks like your trait. You don’t know and don’t understand. "Nnuu not shmogli!"

[vv3]

Rolling out a new promising aircraft is an event in the life of the country. The importance of the political event, as well as the technical one, is understood by everyone. And here on the new face of the country, the American press. And leave your conclusions about the technique for yourself, changing the pylon for demonstration and the engine is not difficult and not for long. ..And people spit in their souls for life ...

[vv3]

UNLIMITED. UNLIMITED. UNLIMITED. UNLIMITED. ENDLESS. ENDLESS. ENDLESS. ENDLESS. ENDLESS. ENDLESS.

I read an article on PD-14 dated January 2016. Of the 145 ordered MS-21s, 35 will be with PD-14s, the rest will be powered by our American brothers. Do you see what our leaders are doing, do these degenerates go out of their head? Are they preparing a second Superjet? And the PD-14 will probably be put on Chinese aircraft? As a result, two all-Russian projects will be destroyed at once !!! Again, complete dependence, again licking the ass for the Americans and Chinese ... This is a breakthrough, this is the work of statesmen, defenders of national interests .....

[samoletil18]

You are, of course, awesome from such information. But the I-16 made its first flight by no means with a Soviet heart, and Soviet engines were clones of English, French, German and American engines. Not patriotic? Maybe. For that fast! And the victory was ours.

[Alex_Tug]

vv3 (1) RU June 21, 2016 09:09
We have that in guide enemies and traitors? Or just stupid people. In the case of the MS-21, this is simply nonsense.

Leadership of what? States? Honestly, fuck the president and prime minister (LADIES) to this plane? I do not understand at all from what hangover to roll out the LADY ... except to be promoted. If Rogozin was there somehow understandably, his sphere. And so in terms of importance ... they rolled out the aircraft with at least some engines, this has nothing to do with the government. An event at the level of the management of airlines - the boom in buying the MC-21 is cheaper than an airbus and a Boeing. They also don't care what kind of engine is there - green or blue or Martian. The main thing was that the plane was making a profit. In general, an event for "writers" on all sorts of topics.
PS. Iran intends to buy from Boeing 140 + 300 Boeing until 2030. There is a question for the leadership - why can’t they supply Russia with 50 pieces of MS-21? And do not care about Iran ... (here religious tolerance) what engines are there. The main thing is that they fly well and make a profit.

[Barakuda]

I have a souvenir-shovel from a turbine. I saw three drills on the machine (and the matyuk from the master) so that I could make a hole. I don’t even remember which military engine.
Made in the USSR. I hope the new one will be equally unkillable.

[avg-mgn]

Last week, the issue of the export potential of the MS-21 was discussed, they wrote that in the long run 20 and years narrow-bodied liners will make up 90% of the world fleet. So why in the context again connect with the idea of ​​wide-body. Misunderstandings.

[Karlovar]

Ot Kaliningrada do Vladivostoka na uzkofuzelazkah letat budut ???

[Mountain shooter]

At one time, the engine specialists said - attach a fence to my engine, it will still fly ... The engine is the heart of the aircraft. And we, with our size, really need such a long-haul vehicle. But not what Abyzov, but economical, competing in all respects with Boeing and airbuses of a similar class. If the Chinese want to participate in the development and production - so be it. Money is not superfluous for us, but the engines are OURS! So - such a message only pleases. The plane is under 300-350 tons of takeoff weight - very "in sex".

[Xmyp]

It would not be sad, but with our government it will be like this:
The Chinese engine according to Russian developments will be produced at a factory from Chinese components made in China from Russian metal.

[Xmyp]

Quote: vv3

In general, I really like the question. What to create? Look, the MS-21 was rolled out with American engines!? How is it? We have been trumpeted for victory for a long time, in terms of creating a family of the latest engines based on PD-14 ... And the most powerful in this line almost reaches the right one, or in extreme cases can be developed on this base ... We have that Guide enemies and traitors? Or just stupid people. In the case of the MS-21, it’s just nonsense. We all, the whole country spat in the face ... I would like to know who did it and why? And what punishments follow, I want a public investigation ... I don’t understand history with SAM146. Some say that it is fully certified and with fully computerized documentation and is available from us. And others say that the hot part of the gas generator is brought only in France and this is their exclusive and they won’t give it away .... Tales constantly tell us, or rather they simply lie ... Are we a country of fools and idiots?

Yes, you have seen;))

[Ros 56]

Whoever, whatever said the news is very good and timely and even somewhat belated. So there is an opportunity to surpass the striped ones. And who knows what engines are on "Mriya", the diameter of the inlet nozzle is very large and where else were they used?

[samoletil18]

On Ruslans.

[Alex_Tug]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Boeing in turn for the program 787 spent 32 billion dollars. Where does such a large amount come from? For $ 30 billion, Airbus has developed 2 aircraft, and a Boeing 1 aircraft.

A new plant was built to build the 787s. Here is the price.

[gridasov]

It should be recalled that the modern physical principle underlying the operation of aircraft engines has limitations on scaling. Therefore, on the one hand, airplanes with large take-off weight actually become "fuel carriers", and secondly, the reserve of energy potential will still not be enough when flight conditions change. Unfortunately, a series of massive disasters awaits us. Only new technologies and, accordingly, fundamentally new algorithms of physical processes in the operation of new engines can neutralize the complex of negative phenomena.

[DPN]

I really liked the comparison, it wasn’t even in the Soviet Union, it’s not good to compare it with the country that you destroyed yourself. In the USSR, you would have been to MARS before, but would have flown their own planes and not on Boeing Boeing like now! Since 1991, how much time has passed? This is how much time they killed their industry.

[Ros 56]

Quote: DPN

it’s been so much time killing their industry.

Well, who exactly claims, us or Yeltsin or Chubais, or someone else. Why is it in vain to crush the water in the mortar.