Military Review

Kazakhstan, Aktobe: a view from two sides

185
When the well-known events in Aktobe (Aktyubinsk) occurred, before I said something about this, I familiarized myself in great detail with a large number of statements on this topic. And smart people, and had to learn a lot of frank nonsense. The best delusional creation belonged to the pen of Mr. Limonov, by the way.


However, any analysis of events is good when there is an opinion from the other side. And I very seriously attended to the search for contacts with our Kazakhstan readers. And this material is the fruit of our long conversation with one of them.

I am very sorry that from among those invited to the conversation (and I sent an invitation to 12 to the readers) only one agreed to a direct conversation. Perhaps the result of our conversation will not be entirely objective, but ... It's good that at least one responded. Could be worse.

What do we want to show our joint creation? And I would like to show some analysis of what is happening in Kazakhstan from a joint point of view. It is clear that in Russia she is alone, and in Kazakhstan it can be completely different. And the truth, as you know, is somewhere in the middle. I don’t know if we managed to find this middle, but what we’ve got is what we offer.

So, Kazakhstan in general, Aktobe in particular. From a general point of view.

Many words were said on the topic that this is a rehearsal of the Maidan and stuff like that. The Kazakhstani mass media were also a little fooled, reporting, with reference to the KNB (FSB in Russian), about the "attempted coup d'etat."

It was clear to clever people (to whom I rank myself) that the forces of two dozen organisms armed in a hunting shop do not organize coups. It will be small. Therefore, there is something else here.

If we take the May events as a starting point, which some were quick to call the “color revolution”, here we can say the following. This is not a “color revolution” or even a rehearsal. How are the actions of such a plan, we all know. This is Kiev, this is Tbilisi. The rehearsal is Moscow, Bolotnaya Square. That miser, who gathered in the cities in May, cannot even be called a rehearsal. Mizer - he is miserable in Africa.

The main merit in the noise and din, raised around the May events, belongs to the media. And the media is quite a certain sense. Both oppositional to Nazarbayev, and oppositional to Kazakhstan as Russia's ally. The media with great pleasure post photos of how the guys in the balaclava "packed" meeting participants.

The question of quantity and quality is left open, because, for example, as many as 50 people have gathered in Pavlodar. But one was detained - in fact, the organizer of the rally, the former deputy of parliament Serikbay Alibayev. The rest just talked and went their separate ways.

The June events in Aktobe caused a strange sensation. After the May events, all the security forces were put on high alert. And the special services "dug" without stopping. It is believed that the National Security Committee "got on the trail," and everything that followed afterwards is not an explicitly planned act, but an impromptu. And, if these people had not moved to action, then in a very short time they would have been in the hands of the National Security Committee. This, by the way, quite normally explains the preparation of speakers and their knowledge of goals and objectives. Let's say no preparation.

Everything that happened does not relieve responsibility for the not very impressive work of the security forces. There is only one justification - there is no such level of preparation as that of the Russian colleagues. But then forgive me, but who prevents to cooperate and learn from experience? Moreover, the Russian security forces paid for their experience with sweat and blood. And they have something to learn.

On the other hand, the main task of neutralizing the terrorists was accomplished. If you take the final, then it is what it should be: the terrorists have been destroyed, their goals and objectives have not been fulfilled. Victims ... We have already spoken about this above. Victims could be less.

What is happening behind the scenes of these events today is difficult to say. The Ministry of Internal Affairs does not like to advertise its work, but the fact that there were many detentions is well known. And there were both administrative and criminal cases.

The question of external or internal control, we do not even consider. If it is normal to link both facts of incidents, then the conclusion is the same - they worked under external control.

In general, everything looks rather strange. Let’s say so, if we raise the people, we must do it according to the pattern and color of revolutions in densely populated areas. That is, in the south. In the same Chimkent, for example.

The example is taken for a reason. Near Uzbekistan, where Islam is more canonical than in Kazakhstan. There and religious groups are not something more, there they are. Unlike Kazakhstan. Of course, they are also present in Kazakhstan, but ... at the level of the younger group of the kindergarten in comparison with the university.

To raise a wave on a religious basis, the north of Kazakhstan is absolutely unsuitable. And because of the small size of the population, and because of the heterogeneity of religions. Brought everything. And there are no such clearly expressed religious sentiments in the north. For the second time.

But if we talk about Aktobe, then there is one thing that is not in Chimkent. Border with Russia.

Perhaps this was the reason for choosing a place for rehearsal.

The KNB has been working off the very first case since 2011. It was probably in the colony of Aktobe that those who had been brought earlier were kept. No wonder that the terrorists' plans included the seizure of the colony and the release of the convicts held there.

Today, operations are carried out in the Aktobe region, people are detained in towns and cities, and work is underway. It is impossible to reproach the Kazakhstani security officials with excessive sluggishness, working out is underway. Results ... results will be. With time. Not all detainees are released, apparently, there is something to make a start from and with whom to work.

In general, the situation was peculiar. At the beginning, the authorities themselves gave a reason, without really explaining to the population the essence of land innovations. Than the opposition did not fail to take advantage. But the government immediately backtracked, regarding the protest moods, both with the help of explanatory work and involving security officials. Legally.

The flexibility of Nazarbayev’s policy has always been hard to follow. But in this case, the authorities reacted as quickly as possible and without excessive rigidity. Obviously, admitting their blunders.

And then religion went into action. More precisely, religious fanatics.

According to Kazakhstani departments, today the number of the same Salafi is estimated at 13-15 thousand. Compared with the general population - a drop in the ocean. But as a base for initial movements is enough. At the end of the "zero" years was an experiment to create a youth Salafi movement. The experiment failed. As a result, Salafists in Kazakhstan began to gradually oppress the authorities, but the religious movement itself was not banned. Moreover, it has not yet been hit, which is rather strange.

In general, unlike Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan is a weakly religious country. And, as strange as it sounds, there is no religious fanatic from the Kazakh. And because there was no proper preparation, and because of the internal world order.

And so it happened that when independence came, the Kazakhs were an outsider in matters of religion. When the USSR was what to do, and when there was no empire, and it turned out that it was necessary to do something in the spiritual direction, then religious ministers were taught abroad at public expense.

Trained. But then Nazarbayev realized in time that the freebie should be closed. And shut down. Today, anyone who wants to become an imam and study in Egypt or Saudi Arabia can still do it. At your own expense. Which, by the way, does not give him the right to work with the flock. For this, you still have to go through ... certification, or something ...

In general, there are radical religious organizations in Kazakhstan. But not at such a level that it was possible to talk about internal conflicts on a religious basis.

The events of June 6, all the same out of the ordinary. Not only because the attack on weapons shops and military unit. Here, by the way, one can trace the handwriting of Russian Caucasian gangs from the recent past. It is very similar to the events in Ingushetia, Chechnya, Dagestan. It is likely that the then direct executors now play the role of instructors, but the methodology of actions has not changed at all.



13 killed terrorists, 6 killed soldiers and civilians, order 50 injured. Could be worse. And much worse. But no matter how they criticized the actions of the security forces, they coped with their task.

Another question is how far the organizers of the action were interested in its success. Proceeding from the fact that local radical fanatics “worked”, who initially could not count on the support of the population (as events showed), under external control or not, it can be said with certainty that no one counted on success.

Having carefully studied the materials about the incident, we can conclude that the chance was insignificant. The attackers were not enough even for the hypothetical control of the city, even taking into account the presence of (possible) like-minded people in the colony.

However, two dozen extremists turned out to be quite enough to test the script. The likelihood that the participants of the action will be destroyed by all the opposition, was great. Security forces in Kazakhstan may not be as professional as their Russian counterparts, but they are able to act toughly. So to achieve at least some success, or it is trivial to survive - the attackers did not have such an opportunity initially. Plus a complete lack of personal preparation for such actions.

But who, except for relatives and friends will begin to feel sorry for fanatics? And for those behind the events and even more so, the question of "cannon fodder" is not a question at all. It is obvious.

And to see how far the attackers will be able to realize the plans that have been developed, how the security forces in Kazakhstan will react to all of this is the most important result of the operation. There is a certain certainty that this was the main thing, and not the desire to arm a certain number of fanatics, to release a few dozen prisoners and so on. The study of the capabilities of the security forces is the main goal. And she was, unfortunately, executed. And people died. The rest are elements of intimidation and destabilization, hysteria in some media is a second time.

Can we expect to continue? Can and should be. Moreover, the events of 5 June revealed not very good readiness of law enforcement agencies for the sudden appearance on the street of an armed crowd. It is clear that the conclusions will be made, and quite quickly. This is the essence of the rule of Nazarbayev. Reacting and reacting effectively is the key to success in the war that actually knocked at the gates of Kazakhstan.

It is good when there are allies in the war. Syria showed it clearly and clearly. Real allies, not speaking. And there is such an ally.

After all, everything that destabilizes the situation in Kazakhstan is also a problem for Russia. And we, to all existing, have another common problem - Islamic radicalism. And he can be defeated only by working hand in hand. Today's day shows the whole world that terrorism is extra-territorial. The manual may be located somewhere in Qatar or Saudi Arabia, instructors in any of the neighboring countries or even in Kazakhstan itself, and performers ... Performers are a headache for any country.

Yes, what happened in Aktobe is an internal affair of Kazakhstan. But at the same time, and external business for Russia. Kazakhstan should not be locked in its own borders, on the contrary. These events, both May and June, should push the relevant structures in Kazakhstan to work more closely with their Russian colleagues to solve common problems. The Russian experience of counter-terrorism operations and the prevention of terrorism may be a panacea for Kazakhstan’s problems.

I express my deep appreciation to our reader Kasym for the information provided and the adjustment of understanding of the situation.
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185 comments
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  1. Simpsonian
    Simpsonian 16 June 2016 06: 11
    +6
    In Russian, this city is called "Aktyubinsk" ... Well, they don't write about the view from the other side from Paris, Rome, Washington and Chisinau ...

    Incidentally from Aktobe to Aktobe redirects the machine RUSSIAN Wikipedia, well, then it would forward to those cities as well
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 08: 20
      -8
      Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 16 June 2016 08: 46
        +4
        Quote: CORNET
        Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

        Why he was obviously offended, he had already raped the constitution four times in his favor. At least how Putin could leave the locum tenens for one term, than ruin the constitution.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 16 June 2016 09: 25
          +8
          if there will be blood, even though I can’t stand Nazik, I can’t but admit that it’s not Nazik that holds back the Kazakh Natsik
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana 16 June 2016 12: 57
            +7
            The article is good, but the topic is not completely indicated by the author. Therefore, the conclusions of readers - some members of the forum - that Nazarbayev "stayed" are completely incorrect.
            Meanwhile, if you look at the map, we will see that Kazakhstan borders on Russia not just plainly with the Russian Federation, but strategically in a special way. Kazakhstan rests not just on Russia, but on the Ural mountains, which divide Russia into two parts, natural and geographic (as a natural barrier) - European and Siberia. Capture the USA Kazakhstan - no matter what methods - and the path to the dismemberment of Russia among the Anglo-Saxons will be REALLY OPEN. And this is exactly what the US State Department, the CIA and the Pentagon, together with NATO, on the principle of the long-standing US strategy, Anaconda began to try to achieve now in the same Anglo-Saxon war against Russia - now through a coup in Kazakhstan, as in Ukraine.

            REMEMBER. The Western approach of the Atlantists to the Eurasian space in general, and especially to Russia, strictly fits into the Anaconda strategy developed by General McClellan during the US Civil War. This increment of economic well-being (USA) is the main goal of the war; avoiding a direct collision with your opponent and attracting ALLIES for this and with THEIR help - KILLING the consequences of actions taken for the sake of profit (first of all, for the USA itself). All this involves surrounding and “strangling” the enemy, like an anaconda snake (the snake surrounded the ring and strangled the prey, the prey went to the hunter, the snake remained hungry and again in search of prey, which the hunter would point to her), by cutting him off from any external ones, first turn of economic contacts.

            See the disclosure of this problem in Kazakhstan in detail in the video “Nikolai Starikov - Will there be a coup in Kazakhstan in Ukraine?” 10.06.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX
            1. Monarchist
              Monarchist 16 June 2016 15: 58
              +6
              Tanya, I agree with you that what happened in Aktobe directly affects Russia. Even if we abandon the Maidan and forget the "Nuland cookies" (with anti-Russian stuffing), stability in Kazakhstan is necessary for Russia.
              1. Anglorussian
                Anglorussian 17 June 2016 02: 24
                0
                Syria showed it brightly and clearly
                Our Syria, but in fact Syria has come out on the side of the anti-Iraq coalition. The Americans (and the bad arrogant Saxons) have corrupted Iraq with its help.
              2. Arman13
                Arman13 17 June 2016 22: 59
                0
                Both Russia and us are very necessary. Thanks to the author for the post, I would like to add that in terms of extremism, Western Kazakhstan suffers more, such a feature. And Shymkent, or according to Soviet Chimkent, is more stable and calm, albeit on the border with Uzbekistan. And then, why do I have the flag of Ukraine and how to change it?
          2. Monarchist
            Monarchist 16 June 2016 16: 22
            +2
            By the way, Nazarbayev is not yet the most negative character (1) Now 2: indeed, without him, "Polovtsian dances" will begin in Kazakhstan -10 gurus will be found with their own recipe for "happiness", but they will be united by the shed blood. Let Nursultan "twelve" more times the constitution will be redesigned, what will be the beginning of its Maidan, or even worse repeat Libya or Iraq. Formally, the state exists, but for a week ...
        2. CORNET
          CORNET 16 June 2016 14: 34
          -2
          Quote: Semurg
          Quote: CORNET
          Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

          Why he was obviously offended, he had already raped the constitution four times in his favor. At least how Putin could leave the locum tenens for one term, than ruin the constitution.

          Are you against Nazarbayev ...? I understand ... What do you suggest ???
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 16 June 2016 16: 40
        +1
        Dear Cornet and Semurg, why are you so strict with Nursultan? There were and there are worse ones: Iraq, North Korea, Libya. If we take the recent regimes of Tripoli, Baghdad: without dictators, a complete trindets. Outside states remained, but in nature ...: "Lebid, cancer and pike"
      3. Dart2027
        Dart2027 16 June 2016 20: 00
        +2
        I wonder from which planet you need to fly in order to seriously believe that the matter is in some kind of irremovability? Nazarbayev is oriented towards Russia and therefore the "democratic forces" will hate him.
    2. Atigay
      Atigay 16 June 2016 20: 52
      +2
      For some reason, Russian people pronounce a soft "e" "e". Although, due to the morphology of the Russian language, I would admit if "Aktobe" was called "Aktobe", but not Aktobe, dear.
      1. aquatic
        aquatic 16 June 2016 21: 24
        +3
        20 years was AkTyube, then more than 100 Aktyubinsk, with all due respect, Aktyubinsk is now more understandable to me than Aktobe, just like in 20 years Dnipropetrovsk will be closer than God forbid the Dnieper.
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 17 June 2016 02: 19
          +1
          And what about all the other cities founded by Russians? Ak-Tyube was near the farm, and it was called by it.
          With the Russian name, only Pavlodar remained in Kazakhstan. No, well, is it just somehow?

          You can ask on Wikipedia if there are more redirects to wikipedia.ru and not wikipedia.kz
          Tselinograd (well, a completely new building) is also being redirected to Astana
          Is there a "Kazakh-administrator" sitting there without concepts, or is it done by someone else?
          1. Anglorussian
            Anglorussian 17 June 2016 02: 25
            0
            Reconcile with the death of the Union
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 17 June 2016 05: 02
              0
              You need yourself to be reconciled ...

              How is this to the "oddities" from Wikipedia.ru?
              1. Simpsonian
                Simpsonian 18 June 2016 07: 45
                0
                Like your "conciliatory" English statement about the renaming of Russian cities in Kazakhstan?
  2. Aleksander
    Aleksander 16 June 2016 06: 21
    +5
    What will happen when Nazarbayev leaves?
    .........
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Igor39
      Igor39 16 June 2016 07: 20
      +4
      There will be nothing, they will put someone from the family as president and forward to the bright future of 2050.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 16 June 2016 07: 45
      +14
      All the former republics of the USSR have one sore. Everyone wants to rule themselves, under the guise of mythical sovereignty. But most of all they fear an attempt on their sovereign by Russia. Guys from the Republic of Kazakhstan, now you can't live without a "roof". It will not be Russian, it will become American or Chinese. Here you shouldn't look for good from good. A mistake in choice can become fatal and for a long time.
      As for the events in Aktyubinsk, there is little information, and even that is contradictory.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 16 June 2016 08: 03
        -5
        Quote: siberalt
        All former republics of the USSR have one sore. Everyone wants to rule themselves, hiding behind mythical sovereignty
        Yes hi This is especially true for great Russia.
        Quote: siberalt
        But most of all they fear the attempt on their sovereign from Russia
        And especially in the Kremlin they fear an attempt on their sovereign by the United States. Guys from Russia, now you can't live without a "roof". A mistake in choice can become fatal and for a long time. What was the mistake in the Crimea. What the GDP did not live with with the benevolent connivance of Washington. Americans more than anyone else "worked" for "Putin's welfare" - they hanged Saddam, finished off Gaddafi, imposed sanctions on Iran - that is, did their best to make oil and gas prices, the basis of the "good life" of modern Russia, unreasonably high. request
        But according to preliminary data, the "price of Crimea" is $ 500 billion. Kasamo "pivot to the East", as it were lol The US, as they were not loved over the sea-okoyan, and China is close behind the outskirts and has considerable territorial claims against Russia .. And then, near Damansky, they fought with the Amer?
        Here, from the good of good, you should not look.
        1. kuz363
          kuz363 16 June 2016 08: 14
          -9
          For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.
          1. CORNET
            CORNET 16 June 2016 08: 17
            +13
            Quote: kuz363
            For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.

            We do not buy ours ...!
            And I think it is unlikely that EVERYONE would be happy! Greed rules "ukrinoy" ... And you probably also want us to sell something for that amount ..? bully Offer, and we will think ... laughing
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 16 June 2016 08: 48
              +4
              Nana? Will go
          2. Humpty
            Humpty 16 June 2016 08: 34
            +4
            Quote: kuz363
            For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.


            You know, the kings in the SA justly conquered something, formally destroying one of the three most malignant state formations. Then they also bought land from joyful nomads, almost like Estonia and Latvia, and also found lands about which nomads, like all others the rest did not hear. Established the border with China (and not with anyone else) through numerous agreements.
            And Russians have paid all bills for Crimea long ago, even to Turkey.
            1. Aposlya
              Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 02
              0
              Quote: Humpty
              Then they also bought land from joyful nomads, almost like Estonia and Latvia, and also found lands about which the nomads, as well as all the others, had never heard of.


              What exactly and when exactly was purchased by the kings in the CA?
              What "unheard of" nomad lands are you talking about?
          3. Imperialkolorad
            Imperialkolorad 16 June 2016 09: 47
            +4
            Quote: kuz363
            For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.

            They would have taken the money and all the same Russia was a country - they called the aggressor.
            1. Aposlya
              Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 03
              0
              Quote: ImperialKolorad
              They would have taken the money and all the same Russia was a country - they called the aggressor.


              What else would you expect from them? Alas, no one expects anything logical from the authorities of the country for a long time ...
          4. Pereira
            Pereira 16 June 2016 10: 05
            +1
            Expensive.
            Is that the whole of New Russia. And for rubles.
            But Kharkov, two years ago, for 500 thousand dollars to bribe the police and the SBU - it was real. They say that they requested so much.
          5. V.ic
            V.ic 16 June 2016 13: 40
            -3
            Quote: kuz363
            For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.

            Well, Petrushka bought Swedish lands for 2 million Efimks after the end of the Northern War (18th century), so they all became happy? By the way, the extreme war with Sweden was already in the 19th century ... NOT EVERYTHING is for sale, sir, although many are bought!
            1. dmikras
              dmikras 16 June 2016 22: 03
              -1
              Excuse me, but for "Petrushka" I gave you -
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 17 June 2016 09: 41
                0
                Quote: dmikras
                Izvеstring, but for "Petrushka" I gave you -

                But I will announce to you "minus 2" for the letter "e" in the word "Sorry" (the check word "inИon "," inиthread ") the absence of a comma after the mentioned word, because further in your phrase follows" but. "Read the textbook of the Russian language by Barkhudarov / Kryuchkov. Under the USSR, we were taught by it.
        2. Gunxnumx
          Gunxnumx 16 June 2016 08: 49
          +16
          I think that historically we are in the same boat with Russia and we need to support each other. Crimea returned home. And the Americans usually talk about the price. This is their "scale"
          1. CORNET
            CORNET 16 June 2016 08: 56
            -8
            Quote: Gun70
            I think that historically we are in the same boat with Russia and we need to support each other. Crimea returned home. And the Americans usually talk about the price. This is their "scale"

            Something you in Kazakhstan kept silent about Crimea, like the others ... (while Russia lynched on all fronts ..)))) We survived all the same! Alone almost ... Alright, the deflection is counted! hi
            1. Gvas1174
              Gvas1174 16 June 2016 09: 41
              +8
              Do you, as a respected speaker, please, but how many guys from Kazakhstan left for the Donbass? How many died there for the Idea? And what about enslavement on every second car in Kazakhstan ?? Which by the way are more than state flags. Politics, deeds, politicians ...
              And bend-dumb, not there whores you look
              1. CORNET
                CORNET 16 June 2016 10: 15
                -1
                Quote: Gvas1174
                Do you, as a respected speaker, please, but how many guys from Kazakhstan left for the Donbass? How many died there for the Idea? And what about enslavement on every second car in Kazakhstan ?? Which by the way are more than state flags. Politics, deeds, politicians ...
                And bend-dumb, not there whores you look

                Well, I heard that they planted a couple in Kazakhstan ... And in order to massively in the Donbass, for the first time I hear! Although I do not quite understand you, I think ... Are you talking about Russians? Then I agree .... hi I spoke with an oilman from Kazakhstan recently in a hospital (no longer working) .. They are dispersing our brother there, they are bringing their own (from the west ..) They sold everything! Camiron is there at Nazarbayev’s advisers, they say, and he clearly listens to him .. . (or just afraid.))))
                1. Gvas1174
                  Gvas1174 16 June 2016 11: 13
                  +2
                  No, dear, being an ethnic Russian, with a surname known among the "Uralites" I write just not only about the Russians, in this particular case I wrote off the zs of the Kazakh boys,
                2. sa-ag
                  sa-ag 16 June 2016 11: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: CORNET
                  Camiron there at Nazarbayev’s advisers, they say

                  Who???
                  1. Aposlya
                    Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 06
                    0
                    Quote: sa-ag
                    Who???


                    Well, Camiron - there is such an actress from Hollywood ... She also starred in "The Mask" ... laughing
            2. Imperialkolorad
              Imperialkolorad 16 June 2016 09: 51
              +10
              Quote: CORNET
              Something you in Kazakhstan kept silent about Crimea, like the others ... (while Russia lynched on all fronts ..)))) We survived all the same! Alone almost ... Alright, the deflection is counted!

              It is worth remembering that Kazakhstan itself left the USSR rather in fact, when the empire stupidly ceased to exist. Nazarbayev himself was the main initiator of the Russia-Kazakhstan-Belarus rapprochement, which is little remembered.
              1. CORNET
                CORNET 16 June 2016 10: 29
                -5
                Quote: ImperialKolorad
                Quote: CORNET
                Something you in Kazakhstan kept silent about Crimea, like the others ... (while Russia lynched on all fronts ..)))) We survived all the same! Alone almost ... Alright, the deflection is counted!

                It is worth remembering that Kazakhstan itself left the USSR rather in fact, when the empire stupidly ceased to exist. Nazarbayev himself was the main initiator of the Russia-Kazakhstan-Belarus rapprochement, which is little remembered.

                Oh, no need to idealize Nazarbayev too .... Nationalism among the Kazakhs also went off scale .. (I remember the 90s) He just understood what threatened his country ... Therefore, he "pressed" towards Russia!
                1. Rust0626
                  Rust0626 16 June 2016 12: 36
                  +3
                  There is no nationalist movement, as in Russia, in Kazakhstan. There are performances of some groups, moreover, clearly fueled from abroad. Tribalism is more developed in Kazakhstan, and it just excludes nationalistic ideas, because then you have to admit that Kazakh from the south is equal to Kazakh from the north.
                  1. srha
                    srha 16 June 2016 12: 48
                    0
                    Well, yes? .. Tell this to the killed Caucasians in Novy Uzen in the "events" of 1989.
                    1. Rust0626
                      Rust0626 16 June 2016 13: 35
                      +2
                      I say that such actions were and are, well or poorly planned.
                      I can recall the killed Uyghurs, Chechens in the Almaty region.
                      But these are shares, not a system; there is no nationalist core in Kazakhstan.
                      In my opinion, this is even bad, because it is better to have some kind of center that can be influenced than to have a hundred scattered gangs that need to be controlled
                      1. marshes
                        marshes 16 June 2016 14: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Rust0626
                        I can also recall the killed Uyghurs, Chechens in the Almaty region

                        what are the Uyghurs, mid-90s HF 2534 PV, the Chunjinsky frontier detachment. Regarding the Uyghurs, 70%, the sergeant told me the Uyghurs that we, the Uyghurs will recapture the area to Almaty, they say they are Chechens. Once the war is the result of an outpost, in Outposts, except for Kazakhs, Russians and Germans, there were practically no Uigurs except crickets. They were at the Kolzhat and Charyn checkpoints, they were hanging out with long-range fighting.
                    2. marshes
                      marshes 16 June 2016 13: 39
                      +4
                      Quote: srha
                      Well, yes? .. Tell this to the killed Caucasians in Novy Uzen in the "events" of 1989.

                      Do you know the reason?
                      The sign was forbidden to Kazakhs in the coop cafe after 19 00 hours, and this was the trigger.
                      In Malovodnoye, the Kazakhs defeated one-on-one rams, who then crushed him with a machine.
                      In the Chenildes, the rams are two-for-two, those snatters stumbled and brought an assault rifle with them.
                      And in the 90s, in the north, there were all grain receiving points and elevators under the Vainakhs, and who did they run into at that time? There were a quarter Kazakhs by force.
                      1. AllXVahhaB
                        AllXVahhaB 16 June 2016 16: 01
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        Do you know the reason?

                        And the events in Uralsk? And in the East Kazakhstan region, near Uskaman?
                      2. marshes
                        marshes 16 June 2016 16: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: AllXVahhaB
                        And the events in Uralsk? And in the East Kazakhstan region, near Uskaman?

                        Remember, pzhl.
                      3. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 16
                        0
                        Quote: AllXVahhaB
                        And in the East Kazakhstan region, near Uskaman?


                        This is when the stoned Vainakhs of the Kazakh were stabbed to death, and then rushed to their village for help from relatives? And when asked to extradite the killers, they seized a car with liquid gas and said that it would be blown up along with their entire village?

                        Waha, and you do not find the actions of your fellow tribesmen criminal?
                  2. Victorio
                    Victorio 16 June 2016 20: 24
                    0
                    Quote: srha
                    Well, yes? .. Tell it killed Caucasians in Novy Uzen in the "events" of 1989.

                    ====
                    ??? I know only about one victim of those events
                  3. Aposlya
                    Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 12
                    0
                    Quote: srha
                    Well, yes? .. Tell this to the killed Caucasians in Novy Uzen in the "events" of 1989.


                    And who is to blame for this? This is how those events are described. http://pikabu.ru/story/sobyitiya_v_novom_uzene_ili_novouzenskaya_reznya_1989_182
                    5723

                    The Novouzensk massacre - interethnic clashes on June 17-28, 1989 in the city of Novy Uzen of the Kazakh SSR between groups of Kazakhs and immigrants from the Caucasus.

                    The event in New Uzen began on June 16, 1989. Just as a huge mud begins with the movement of a tiny pebble, so here it all started with a small household fight.
                    Late in the evening, at the dance floor in New Uzen, a brawl ensued between young children of Kazakh and Lezghian nationalities.

                    The essence of the conflict was as follows. The Lezgin guy invited a Kazakh girl to dance, and she refused him. Perhaps not quite politely, as the Caucasian at least decided and gave the girl a slap in the face. And then he himself received a blow to the face from a Kazakh guy standing nearby. After 10 minutes, the fight became massive and immediately acquired an international character.

                    The local police reacted, took the necessary measures to stop the fight, and the incident seemed to be over. However, on the same night, groups around the city began to form along ethnic lines, then there were fights between them. Further, local law enforcement agencies could not stop the events.

                    Already in the morning of June 17, the whole city was in turmoil. Fights went on all streets of the city. And very soon, riots spread to nearby areas.

                    In total, for the entire period of skirmishes, about 30 thousand people directly participated in them.
                    All the republican media began to focus only on the negative aspects of the speech of the New Zealanders, not trying to understand what prompted the people to take such a step. That is, they wrote one-sidedly, hiding the truth. Below are excerpts from those reports of Kazakhstani media ..
                    “On the night of June 16-17, a group of young people in New Uzen committed atrocities ... Hooligan elements organized in groups, armed with sticks, armatures, stones, attack passers-by, destroy shops, administrative buildings ... Traffic in the city was stopped, a number of workers were paralyzed commercial and industrial enterprises. The facts of the use of firearms are recorded. There are human casualties ... "


                    It wasn’t figs to dissolve hands, since they refused to dance!
              2. Imperialkolorad
                Imperialkolorad 16 June 2016 20: 35
                +3
                Quote: CORNET
                Oh, you don’t have to idealize Nazarbayev too ..

                You may not agree with me, but I personally consider Nazarbayev the most appropriate politician immediately after the collapse of the USSR. For in many fragments of empires, zoological Natsik or US litter came to power (or remained with it).
                Quote: CORNET
                Therefore, and "pressed" to Russia!

                Fear there rather like that of Mongolia was not to nationalism but to China, which would teach their homeland to love, Chinese essno. However, one should not forget about the myriad of economic ties as our smaller brothers from the CIS and Spratia.
            3. Gvas1174
              Gvas1174 16 June 2016 11: 16
              +8
              It is worth saying that Kazakhstan was kicked out, and I remember how it was, most hoped that the drunk just got drunk, and soon everything will settle down ... settled down, bl.
            4. NikolaiN
              NikolaiN 18 June 2016 17: 27
              +1
              Yes, Nazarbayev did not go to the "gangway" to Belovezhskaya Pushcha, he was against the collapse of the Union. Back in the 90s, he proposed an economic union. But Yeltsin did not like him for refusing to go to the "gangway" after the collapse of the Union.
      2. Stas_77
        Stas_77 16 June 2016 10: 01
        0
        You don’t think about us, about yourself. Neither China nor the states will turn up to us (we have a vigorous club), but on condition that we allow it, they will tear you to pieces and China has much more territorial claims to you.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 16 June 2016 15: 44
          +2
          Stas, you probably heard about the Kurds in Syria, Turkey and Iran. And the fact that they now play a key role in the conflict, too. So, the Uyghurs in the PRC can play the same role as the Kurds if the Chinese climb into Kazakhstan and Central Asia. And it’s good that the Chinese understand this (based on their policy regarding the Republic of Kazakhstan). Otherwise, they may lose their XUAR (since such a promotion of the PRC is not beneficial to anyone, not to the Muslim world, not to NATO, not to Asia, not to the CIS). So they are quite friendly and open to us.
          NATO closed the road with their base back in the early 2000s - the law was passed that without the approval of the CSTO and SCO countries (read neighbors) no military forces. there can be no bases of third countries in Kazakhstan. If the Yankees hadn't been in Afghanistan, I can't even imagine how they could get here, even the Tomahawks don't hold out. But there (in Afghanistan) they are now trapped with such a contingent. And now it is relatively quiet there, because no one supplies weapons to the "interested" parties (Uzbeks to Dostum, Iranian Hazaras, Tajiks Rahmon, Pashtuns from Pakistan). Do you think that if the Yankees start diesel, someone will keep their promises - I very much doubt that. hi
          1. yehat
            yehat 16 June 2016 16: 37
            +1
            one must understand how the Chinese annexed the Uyghurs. They just won the right to settle the Chinese. The Chinese came and voted "we are China". This I roughly describe the scheme.
            The Uyghurs, naturally, feel cynically deceived, and this will be until China somehow seriously begins assimilation or genocide. Now there is a mild form of genocide.
            1. Kasym
              Kasym 16 June 2016 16: 50
              +4
              Uyghurs there throw knives at policemen, even at their Olympics they were noted all over the world. If a bunch of young people hang out in Urumqi, then it is the Uighurs and the Chinese who run across the street "out of harm's way."
              Wrong China policy. hands in international relations. Instead of educating national cadres, the Han are imposed on all posts, etc. hi
              1. Humpty
                Humpty 16 June 2016 17: 40
                0
                Quote: Kasym
                Uyghurs there throw knives at policemen, even at their Olympics they were noted all over the world. If a bunch of young people hang out in Urumqi, then it is the Uighurs and the Chinese who run across the street "out of harm's way."
                Wrong China policy. hands in international relations. Instead of educating national cadres, the Han are imposed on all posts, etc.

                And in Kashgar, there are a lot of Uighurs both in the police and in state institutions, and girls in offices wear skirts higher than the knees. The Uighurs and the Chinese go on joint patrols against extremists, and they guard the Mao monument. About Urumqi I will not say anything confidently, I was once - briefly, I remember badly, all because of the Uighurs, probably my friends turned out to be extremists. "Oh, where I was yesterday - I can't find it, for the life of me! I just remember that the walls are with wallpaper."
                With the Kurds, the comparison is true only in that the Uighurs are such a people that they never find agreement with each other. They have east-west division in China. What is interesting, even in the XUAR are American NGOs, it would seem like this can be? I do not understand .
                1. Aposlya
                  Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Humpty
                  What is curious, even in the XUAR are American NPOs, it would seem how can this be? I do not understand .


                  Is an American NGO in XUAR? belay
                  The Chinese do not catch mice at all?
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz 17 June 2016 17: 29
            0
            Quote: Kasym
            So, the Uighurs in China can play the same role as the Kurds, if the Chinese climb into Kazakhstan and Central Asia

            They can’t, just compare the percentage of Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iran to the ruling ethnic group and compare the number of Uyghurs in relation to the Chinese. This could be discussed somehow if the Uyghurs in their areas of residence had a quantitative superiority over the Chinese, but even this is not. Unlike the Kurds, who have a large number, they are also concentrated compactly in certain territories at almost 100%. Add foreign support and of course the Kurds will be a huge problem for any state and this the problem can be easily solved only by genocide. And without this method it is difficult to restrain them. And the Uyghurs will be crushed and will not be noticed.
      3. user
        user 16 June 2016 14: 19
        +1
        What was the mistake in the Crimea.


        There was just no mistake in Crimea, and the 500 billion voiced by you is not worth the loss of the US exit to Sevastopol, which practically means the closure of the Black Sea (if you do not know, google the events of 2014 in Crimea, well, at least the school repair in Sevastopol for the needs of Amarican representatives, so to speak, for some reason it seems to me that you missed the previous ones and the very beginning of events in Crimea).
      4. Dart2027
        Dart2027 16 June 2016 20: 06
        0
        Quote: Alibekulu
        And especially in the Kremlin, they are afraid of an attempt on their sovereign by the United States.

        And so much so that Uncle Sam's "tobaccos", and not only from the former republics, are constantly crying that the Russians are about to seize them all.
        Quote: Alibekulu
        But according to preliminary data, the "price of Crimea" is $ 500 billion.

        What is especially important, given the fact that these figures were calculated by those who cost our country more than Hitler.

        Quote: Alibekulu
        China is near the outskirts and has considerable territorial claims against Russia

        And which ones?
        Quote: Alibekulu
        And then near Damans fought with amers

        And all over the world, the USSR fought with whom?

        Quote: Alibekulu
        Here, from the good of good, you should not look.

        Yes, some would sit in their oceans.
  3. Monarchist
    Monarchist 16 June 2016 16: 48
    0
    In my opinion, there are two scenarios: Maidan or Syria. Both are lousy, but if we look at it. Libya or Iraq ... So, draw conclusions gentlemen
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 16 June 2016 06: 31
    0
    only one agreed to a direct conversation.
    to our reader "Kasym"

    He alone is one. And his information and opinion can always be questioned - "is it not a sent-out Cossack?"
    Although, with the author, I partially agree.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 16 June 2016 09: 23
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      only one agreed to a direct conversation.
      to our reader "Kasym"

      He alone is one. And his information and opinion can always be questioned - "is it not a sent-out Cossack?"
      Although, with the author, I partially agree.

      At the expense of "Kasym" you can be sure 100500% of your people, if they were sent from your side. if only Banshee with Alibekuly or Zymran wrote an article with views from the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation, it would probably be more complete (though maybe they refused), but this is how it turned out buttery oil.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 16 June 2016 15: 54
        +2
        Semurg, please, we can discuss everything here and now, so as not to "get oil-buttered." And for sure you, tk. "crossed", it is known that I have my own reasoned point of view.
        We talked for a couple of hours, and of course not everything fit here and it would be out of place. hi
        I'm surprised that no one else responded to the journalist's request from the site; since we all read his articles and it would be just great to "convey" our point of view! And so there is a feeling that people in Kazakhstan are unable or afraid to express their opinion openly.
        1. Talgat
          Talgat 16 June 2016 18: 45
          +3
          Kasym here on the site is not the only one who "supports the general line"
          I usually on 99% agree with Kasym's comments.

          The basis of my position is that I believe that the USSR was a direct continuation of the Hun Empire of Attila, the Golden Horde, and tsarist Russia. And that Eurasia will be reborn as a Phoenix from the ashes - just as it was reborn many times - after each defeat.

          Each time, different nations lead her forward. The composition remains the same - the leading main people simply change - and the previous one becomes an ally and support - and then can again "stand at the helm" giving a respite to another

          At Attila, the Slavs ancestors of the Russians also fought with Rome. and the Huns, the ancestors of the steppes. and the Alans were then a great nation. In recent centuries there are fewer steppes - and more Slavs, but that does not change anything - they fought shoulder to shoulder with the Russians in the Great Patriotic Steppe and the Caucasus

          Perhaps in a century or two the% composition of the population will change and the steppe will again become the basis of Eurasia. And then after another century - again the Russians. It all repeats

          The main thing. that we have one story and one, by and large, Homeland

          That's why I support the policy of Kazakhstan on integration and alliance with Russia, since Russia by and large is our land and our peoples - and I mean not only the blood brothers of our people - the Tatars and Bashkirs, Altai, etc. - but and the Russians themselves. And the Kirghiz and Belarusians and others are an integral part of the same whole
        2. Semurg
          Semurg 16 June 2016 18: 51
          +2
          Quote: Zymran


          I meant that the author apparently decided to interview only pro-Russian participants in the site.

          There will be no gingerbread.
          About the rest - the authorities do not care. And remember, I said why this alliance is needed? Mainly for the well-being of the family under the roof of the Russian Federation.


          I don’t know, but maybe it’s good. And then the whole article would be about Maidan, Anglo-Saxons and Bandera.

          Zymran you are right. Kasym, aren't you talking about a Russian user from Kazakhstan? About this I wrote to a user from Russia who doubted and wrote "and not sent you Cossack" and oil oil is when two users with one political orientation from the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation are discussing the causes of the tragedy in Aktobe. I have recently become afraid to personally discuss everything openly on the network, as the situation is getting worse and they will turn the screws, although not in '37, but all sorts of laws haven’t been adopted and can be easily screwed up, but I am not tired of freedom yet.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 16 June 2016 20: 28
            +2
            When EBN was, it was hard to call me pro-Russian. And so, yes, I like GDP, which defends Russia's interests. Because weak Russia = poor Kazakhstan (no trade, no prospects); a rich, strong and prosperous RF = everything is fine and we will have it (we will strive somehow, will be equal to whom, trade will increase, etc.). We are not neighbors of the United States, we have neighbors of the Russian Federation and China with Central Asia.
            Well, in vain you are afraid - we are not doing anything illegal. We are just discussing, and those mistakes that the authorities make sooner or later come up. And here they are obvious, in my opinion. We do not deal with calls for the overthrow of power and do not incite the interethnic. discord, we do not insult anyone. hi
            It is interesting that the NAS in St. Petersburg will say that journalists will not miss this topic.
            1. Kasym
              Kasym 16 June 2016 21: 08
              +3
              And I must admit that I am grateful to Roman, that he tried to contact the Kazakhstanis. This is the first time that such interest has been shown; but the article is not written at random about the Republic of Kazakhstan and then there is a flurry of criticism. I think this is a good undertaking, and I urge all Kazakhstanis to support it. hi
      2. Zymran
        Zymran 16 June 2016 15: 55
        +2
        Quote: Semurg
        Banshee if only with Alibekuly or Zymran wrote an article with views from the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation would probably be more complete (though they may have refused), but it turned out to be oil-oiled.



        No, the author needs respondents who support the party’s general line.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 16 June 2016 16: 42
          +3
          Zymran, first talk, and then talk about the "general line of the party". I expressed everything I thought. For example, where did these come from. About the fact that during the formation of the Customs Union he hoped that the authorities should understand that it is necessary to "align" the social sphere with the Russian Federation, it is necessary to distribute "carrots" to the people. Otherwise, it will be bad. People will start to leave, radicals will appear due to unemployment and disorder in life, etc. We wrote and argued all this for a couple of years - you probably remember this ... And here is the result ... And now they announce the free distribution of land under individual housing construction, accounting for unemployment and "plans" to combat it. Massimov flew in and talk about the construction of houses on state-private basis. share participation and annual allocation for this 20 billion tenge per year. Where have they been before? Why in 5 months. used only 8% of the money allocated for this year - he gave an example of allocating money for science this year - they only came in May - how can people live !? This provides fertile ground for such thugs. Moreover, they talked about both internal reasons and foreign influence.
          Many topics were touched upon and there was no "imposition" on the part of Roman. And why none of the Kazakhs wanted to talk, am I surprised ?! hi
          1. Zymran
            Zymran 16 June 2016 17: 10
            +5
            Quote: Kasym
            Zymran, first talk, and then talk about the "general line of the party".


            I meant that the author apparently decided to interview only pro-Russian participants in the site.
            Although I almost never agree with you, I always read you with interest and respect your opinion.

            Quote: Kasym
            About the fact that during the formation of the Customs Union he hoped that the authorities should understand that it is necessary to "align" the social sphere with the Russian Federation, it is necessary to distribute "carrots" to the people. Otherwise, it will be bad. People will start leaving, radicals will appear due to unemployment and disorder in life, etc. We wrote and argued all this for a couple of years - you probably remember that ... And here is the result ...


            Of course I remember. I said that after 2-3 years, i.e. in 2016-2017 full will come ... What happened.
            There will be no gingerbread. There will be a systematic tightening of nuts, the introduction of new taxes, fines and everywhere cops, including the Internet.

            Quote: Kasym
            now they are announcing the free distribution of land for individual housing construction, accounting for unemployment and "plans" to combat it. Massimov flew in and talk about the construction of houses on state-private basis. share participation and annual allocation of 20 billion tenge per year. Where have they been before? Why in 5 months. used only 8% of the money allocated for this year - gave an example of allocating money for science this year - they only came in May - how can people live !?


            They have been distributing the land for a long time, only there are practically no plots with communications. Or are they introducing something new? In Astana, the question was raised by sections. They say there is no land for construction.
            But shared construction is an interesting idea, but it seems to me to be fertile ground for scammers.
            About the rest - the authorities do not care. And remember, I said why this alliance is needed? Mainly for the well-being of the family under the roof of the Russian Federation.

            Quote: Kasym
            And why none of the Kazakhstanis wanted to talk, I am surprised ?! hi


            I don’t know, but maybe it’s good. And then the whole article would be about Maidan, Anglo-Saxons and Bandera.
            1. marshes
              marshes 16 June 2016 17: 32
              +3
              Quote: Zymran
              They have been distributing the land for a long time, only there are practically no plots with communications

              By nostalgic little.
              88 father retired, 89 by hook or by crook took money, a plot of Turar dachas, almost 60-70 km from the city. Kasym, Dauren, at courses where. Of course, they can’t compare prices with others. They rebuilt the cottage not bad. there is no water, no electricity. Build materials ... there was no choice now.
              Well, three houses are special. Russian, Kazakh and Uygur. There is green and electricity. Why? They threw a well, they used "shepherds". The neighbors had envy ... A little later, a common well was made and the containers were installed, they clicked a cry in two weeks, They say the pipes who will be pulled apart will be the first to be connected. Those who wish less than half the result, cursing threats, etc. And then at the expense of electricity. The pillars had to be pulled apart and dug in and the money collected.
              In short, in 97, a plot of 10 acres and a 6x6 house in two levels were sold for $ 1200.
              A lot of things depend on the people living, not a fig, nothing you will not do, and no one will work for you.
              ps in the summer cooperative of Kazakhs was two. smile Wrong Kazakhs laughing
            2. Kasym
              Kasym 16 June 2016 17: 55
              +3
              There will be no ... at 16-17 .. NAS has nowhere to go - the people have already reached the north, tomorrow there will be no one to command. Tax increases in the near. there will be no time, prosecutors demand to lower the fines - the people pay only 30%, the prosecutor's office is inundated with "cases of fines for violations. laughing . Where else to raise, they are not crazy.
              He was not interested in the earth. But the plan is clear. Construction - a lot of jobs, you need to hire someone - not all builders. The same is with equity participation. Zymran, the oligarchs of the family do not need this union for nothing - why do they need to compete with their Russian "colleagues" - and so everything is under them. I know the opinion of some ... rich Buratin. I consider this Union, first of all, as security (food, military, political - I don’t want a puppet to appear; and since we have a lot in common, we have "vectors" similar to the Russian Federation). Second, the level of education and health care - it’s not for me to tell which universities are better. Third, the level of prices due to competition - for the same cars, we can see everything perfectly. Otherwise, we will get ..., it must be done so that we will tear the navel. Investments in the army and its equipment, in science (which is already breathing), monopolists in all areas - the treasury will not be enough.
              I also wanted to recall my position. The Russian Federation will at least keep all of these in good shape (authorities, oligarchs, etc.) - they will not let them mess around.
              There was only one question. What do I think about Aktyubinsk. But there are many factors, therefore ... many things were touched upon. For example, why not "pressure on international relations." What kind of ANC is - Roman did not know anything. I compared Ukraine in this context. They talked about Ukrainian democracy - what kind of democracy is in poor countries - the oligarch will pull out his 9 zeros, knowing that he will quickly return them. hi
              Zimran, remember who smuggled with the PRC and how things are now in this direction.
              1. marshes
                marshes 16 June 2016 18: 07
                +2
                Quote: Kasym
                people have already reached north

                I bought four houses from the "North" in the neighborhood. If we consider that the prices for real estate have fallen seriously. There are also 100 pieces. no killed raccoons Talgar district.
                Quote: Kasym
                - the people pay only 30%, the prosecutor's office is inundated with "cases of fines for violations of traffic rules." ... Where else to raise, they are not crazy.

                In most cases, they fell for the camera.
                Itself fell, on Abai for a stop the line drove in, laughed decided not to get on the hammered intersection on Gagarin.
                And the excess of 10 km, VOAD, I agree with this. smile I forgot which bridge the cameras are on. smile And so they laughed in one place, there the rise no matter how speed below 80km / h smile It is necessary either lower or higher, in the entrance to the tunnel under Lugansk, By the way, the pilot is a fighter Hero of the USSR. smile
                1. Kasym
                  Kasym 16 June 2016 18: 29
                  +2
                  I ate ... on the ground. From onions to watermelons with apples. And with the construction site. Three houses - he took part; one financially; and repairs of pieces under ten already made with his participation - tired.
                  So prosecutors cannot do anything, because do not pay corny. Docs, according to the legislation there is a video, but people do not have money. Swamps, they say that traffic cops instructed camera models in some places - but I don’t know where. For new parking lots in the city, the investor requested 300 tenge per hour, the akimat left 100 tenge - they write that near Zel. The first parking meters will soon start working in the bazaar. hi
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 16 June 2016 18: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: Kasym
                    I ate ... on the ground. From onions to watermelons with apples. And with the construction site. Three houses - he took part; one financially; and repairs of pieces under ten already made with his participation - tired.

                    So in my courses the same as a private house, work year-round. laughing
                    And they bought it from the fact that the summer cottages were robbed great, in the wide gap we gouged the wall, we could not open the iron door. smile
                    Quote: Kasym
                    So prosecutors cannot do anything, because do not pay corny. Docs, according to the legislation there is a video, but people do not have money.

                    Yes, in the past year, the auto-driver threw off, one I asked for $ 400 to pay fines and I have a ticket to Omsk, RAF-4 -28 tons. We have the same in picking 42. Although I didn’t rush here.
                    Quote: Kasym
                    Swamps, they say that traffic cops instructed camera models in some places - but I don’t know where

                    I saw in the internet on some of our website where and what, although I’m already trying not to violate it unnecessarily. The dangerous time in Almaty for driving from 23.00 to 6.00 is generally terrible, taxi drivers, etc. ... suicide bombers. It’s safe in traffic jams smile
                    Quote: Kasym
                    For new parking lots in the city, the investor requested 300 tenge per hour, the akimat left 100 tenge - they write that near Zel. The first parking meters will soon start working in the bazaar.

                    Yes, I’ve been trying not to drop into the center for the last time, but the business brought everything from there to the outskirts.
                    I’m thinking of moving to Issyk. But this is closer to retirement and this is far.
                    1. Kasym
                      Kasym 16 June 2016 20: 50
                      +3
                      Yes, of course in the know. My mother and sister have their own homes - so all this is familiar.
                      "I fell in love with the traffic cop when I met the customs officer." Well them, these insatiable feeders.
                      And rightly so, this center. I watch these suicide bombers from the balcony - at night, they manage to kill themselves on an empty avenue - recently, just opposite me, two were killed on a fence and forest plantation between the road. It was even scary to look at this picture. The back of the car simply did not exist. And why do young parents buy such cars (BMW 7 models) - is it clear that they will drive ?! In my childhood, you will not believe it, we ran Al-Farabi with our eyes closed - went ski jumping, and also climbed the farm to the farm aport. hi
                      Well, even though the rain was good - in the center, in the heat of hell is pitch-fire.
                      1. marshes
                        marshes 16 June 2016 20: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: Kasym
                        In my childhood, you will not believe it, we ran Al-Farabi with our eyes closed - went ski jumping, and also climbed the farm to the farm aport.

                        LLC was still a boyar according to Abai and Sain, it used to be. Al Farabi was generally deserted, I have friends in Kazakhfilm and Upper, my brother lives.
                        Quote: Kasym
                        Well, even though the rain was good - in the center, in the heat of hell is pitch-fire.

                        Yes, in the morning the forest was empty, there is no heat working smartly. You will not lure me to the center, only to buy odnushki laughing And I like the area on Kunaev above 12 schools, quiet ... smile Well, now the apartments have sagged a lot, as they are not interested in investments ... Only for housing, but you will drive me into the apartment.
              2. Zymran
                Zymran 16 June 2016 21: 01
                0
                ... has already come. Can't you see? It is not only a matter of the family’s oligarchs business (although one has already been introduced to the Gazprom Board of Directors), it is that the family needs a roof to transfer power to one of its own and that Putin needs to recognize it.
                Imagine what would happen if, for example, you use up all the power of the propaganda machine of the Russian Federation against Kazakhstan. From the radiant and its regime, stone on stone will not remain. =)
                The auto industry is also there, how many yards did they ask to support their wheel-bolting business?
                1. marshes
                  marshes 16 June 2016 21: 23
                  0
                  Quote: Zymran
                  It is not only a matter of the family’s oligarchs business (although one has already been introduced to the Gazprom Board of Directors), it is that the family needs a roof to transfer power to one of its own and that Putin needs to recognize it.

                  The thing is simple access to the pipe to the west, after Putin there will be DAM. Whoever the hell admits, we are the same as the Russian Federation and the PRC, under one well-known family.
                  Quote: Zymran
                  Imagine what would happen if, for example, you use up all the power of the propaganda machine of the Russian Federation against Kazakhstan. From the radiant and its regime, stone on stone will not remain. =)

                  They can but not under Putin or DAM.
                  Quote: Zymran
                  The auto industry is also there, how many yards did they ask to support their wheel-bolting business?

                  And here, it seems like a legitimate withdrawal of money abroad, although these cars didn’t give up to hell. Within the framework of the WTO, you can buy cheaper, but after ... a few years, under the terms of the bargaining. Moreover, the line that produces me as a motorist is not satisfied, although everybody knows that they get the majority from us. Yes, officials prefer these cars.
                2. Kasym
                  Kasym 16 June 2016 21: 27
                  +1
                  ... then there would be crowds running around with trunks, following the example of Kiev - really there .... And why? One had only to turn away from a neighbor and please, it was predictable. But the Russian Federation is the same for us - here you have transit and roads to the richest market, and one of the main trading partners - and why should the barricades be erected at the borders to the detriment of oneself, hack transit !?
                  Let them do what they want, as long as they share with the people. And so it will come to some kind of soft dictatorship, if tomorrow we close - so at least "they will not lose the coast." And for the "radiant" in the form of the Council of Presidents there is a "bridle" - why would he need this if he strives for omnipotence !? Why does he need this supnat. committee (commission - I don't remember) of the EAEU, why a common energy market and a single currency !? And why does he need the recognition of the GDP in the Republic of Kazakhstan, here on whom he shows - that will be the trace. the president under his eye Elbasy, or in doubt?
                  Zimran, let's close the car assembly and throw people out into the street - do you offer it !? I wrote about prices personally for the consumer - didn’t we, as motorists, win !? So it was possible to discard auto-rubbish - or this is bad (probably they borrowed the idea from the Russian Federation) !?hi
                  1. Zymran
                    Zymran 17 June 2016 11: 07
                    0
                    Quote: Kasym
                    . then there would be crowds running around with trunks, following the example of Kiev - really there .... And why? One had only to turn away from a neighbor and please, it was predictable.


                    Well, what am I talking about? One had only to turn away ... This is the main reason.

                    In the meantime, we have just

                    Quote: Kasym
                    Let them do what they want, as long as they share with the people. And so it will come to some kind of soft dictatorship, if tomorrow we close - so at least "the coast will not lose."


                    Soft dictatorship. Moreover, under a reliable roof.

                    Quote: Kasym
                    And for the "radiant" in the form of the Council of Presidents there is a "bridle" - why does he need this if he strives for omnipotence !? Why does he need this supnat. committee (commission - I don't remember) of the EAEU, why a common energy market and a single currency !?


                    Then, that no one will protect him for no reason.

                    Quote: Kasym
                    Zimran, let's close the car assembly and throw people out into the street - do you offer it !? I wrote about prices personally for the consumer - didn’t we, as motorists, win !? So it was possible to discard auto-rubbish - or this is bad (probably they borrowed the idea from the Russian Federation) !? hi


                    Not. Better, let us allocate billions of budget money to obviously unprofitable enterprises, which will attract even more budget money every year.

                    By the way, the new tax https://news.mail.ru/economics/26134090/?frommail=1
      3. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 17 June 2016 04: 29
        +3
        Quote: Semurg
        here is Banshee if I wrote with Alibekuly or Zimran
        Banshee wrote to me laughing - warnings and "ban"
        Quote: Semurg
        It is for sure that the "first hundred" has already gotten everyone. The third hundred after nan will crumble the first hundred and the second hundred will sit in the north, not and the fourth hundred will begin the evacuation
        Mormont 62 forgotten lol
        Quote: CORNET
        Maybe it’s not too late to hold a "referendum" ... and the Kazakhs!
        We are ready to consider your application for entry into the great Kazakhstan. All petitions are filed from 9.00 to 17.00, on Thursdays .. You should have a label and payzu with you ..
        Quote: ultra
        What prevents you from writing?
        What we write will not be allowed on "VO" ..
        Quote: CORNET
        I am on sick leave...)))))
        Duc is already 3 years old as we know .. "lies with a broken head .." (c)
  • sergeyzzz
    sergeyzzz 16 June 2016 07: 06
    +5
    Quote: Aleksander
    What will happen when Nazarbayev leaves?

    Nothing good. Yes, they do not like Nazarbayev, but with his departure, an endless struggle for power between rival clans will begin. For ordinary people, this is a disaster like Ukraine.
    1. Crucian
      Crucian 16 June 2016 08: 00
      +7
      There will be no endless struggle, everything will be decided quickly. Further will depend on who comes. The ass is not excluded, in the comments on the news on Kazakhstan sites there is already a lot of anti-Russian trolling. I have no doubt that mattresses are probing the soil.
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 16 June 2016 11: 46
        0
        Quote: Karas
        There will be no endless struggle, everything will be decided quickly.

        It’s unlikely to be fast, now a lot is tied to one person, so that then they can quickly distribute it, there will be an undercover struggle of groups, the division of inheritance
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 16 June 2016 17: 00
          +3
          Whom will NAS call and will - doubt it !? And there will be no vacillations. NAS, like Elbasy, can remove any president, as it failed.
          By the way, the "NAS problem" was also discussed. I divided it into three points:
          1. Family. Will try to "push through" and no one doubts it (Aliyev is an example of this).
          2. The vertical of power. Another may be too lazy to dive into each topic and focus on everything. Then this vertical must be reviewed, but Elbasy may not agree.
          3. Heir. Whom he will most likely name at the "last moment" and why. hi
          1. sa-ag
            sa-ag 17 June 2016 07: 21
            +1
            Quote: Kasym
            Whom will NAS call and will - doubt it !?

            This will work until a certain point, then references to authority will lose force
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 16 June 2016 08: 15
      +1
      Nazarbayev is also loved like Putin in Russia.
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 16 June 2016 09: 21
        +2
        Quote: kuz363
        Nazarbayev is also loved like Putin in Russia.

        I liked him in the 90s, and with his statements, he cooled many hot heads .... But now he needs to leave! Beautiful ...
        1. razmik72
          razmik72 16 June 2016 11: 09
          +2
          Beautiful care is not for everyone.
          1. Chisayna
            Chisayna 16 June 2016 12: 20
            +1
            Especially like Bilbo.
  • Sars
    Sars 16 June 2016 07: 26
    0
    What did the events in Aktyubinsk show? Power structures are not power structures at all. The bearded men would want to arrange a massacre, they crumbled the people more than in Orlando.
    In Kazakhstan, there is a saying: a Kazakh without show-offs is a bespontovy Kazakh. It looks like she is similar to the security forces.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 16 June 2016 07: 27
    +7
    Old wisdom says: look for someone who benefits. And destabilization in Kazakhstan is beneficial first of all to the West (USA) and Turkey.
  • semirek
    semirek 16 June 2016 07: 28
    +4
    To be honest, publications on the events in Aktyubinsk set the teeth on edge - only a lazy one did not write about them. Until the end, it is still not clear who was behind them, but one thing is clear, Nazarbayev's open door policy (filling the "vacuum" of Soviet times with all kinds of evil spirits from the Arab countries) did not justify itself. Crowds of idlers in white coats rushing about Kazakhstani cities - is this the light from the east? In Kazakhstan, the supreme power is tied to one respected person, N.A. Nazarbayev, a kind of "Brezhnev" under which the country lived well, but then after the "sudden" death of the latter, there was no one to be elected to the general secretary - only the elders - the mechanism of rejuvenation of the country's leadership was not created - hence the shuffling from side to side, and as a result 91 years old, I think this is waiting for Kazakhstan.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 16 June 2016 17: 15
      +1
      The Interior Minister said yesterday that 40 people gathered at "their imam", who gave the order for "jihad today." They left cell phones. and flooded. At the very last moment, about fifteen people refused, and the rest ... Now they are looking for this imam and the rest are working off. hi
  • parusnik
    parusnik 16 June 2016 07: 39
    -1
    Unfortunately, everything is still ahead .. Nazarbayev is not eternal .. contradictions between the Juzes existed and exist .. there are still a lot of little things, but as they say the devil lurks in the little things .. In addition, almost all Central Asian republics do not yet have immunity from "colored" revolutions ... while it begins to be developed, perhaps in Kyrgyzstan ...
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 16 June 2016 08: 41
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      Unfortunately, everything is still ahead .. Nazarbayev is not eternal .. The contradictions between the Juzes existed and exist ..

      It is for sure that the "first hundred" has already gotten everyone. The third hundred after nan will crumble the first hundred and the second hundred will sit in the north, not and the fourth hundred will begin the evacuation. in general delirium on delirium and drives away delirium, still offer and you try to reasonably deny my delirium.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 16 June 2016 08: 53
        +2
        300 + 100, standings. goodBut if so, then 300-100 anyway = 300.
    2. Talgat
      Talgat 16 June 2016 18: 53
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      contradictions between the Juzes existed and exist.


      This is really nonsense - do not be offended, but the juzas do not play the main role at all

      Here are the clans of the oligarchs and close circle of the first circle - yes - yes! And they are also international - there are both Russians and Koreans in the teams and who just isn't there. So in Russia the same

      I admit. sometimes - yes - there are coincidences in kinship and region of origin - like Putin's - in St. Petersburg. But not more. Corruption is also "international" - no matter who brought you the money - smile

      People will never be divided into juses - juses and clans are nothing more than historical memory and a topic for conversation -

      At least that. that people are getting married - and the Juzes have been mixed for a long time - and for a northerner his southern "where" may be closer to his neighbor
  • Crucian
    Crucian 16 June 2016 07: 47
    +3
    Yes, what happened in Aktobe is an internal affair of Kazakhstan. But at the same time, and external business for Russia. Kazakhstan should not be locked in its own borders, on the contrary. These events, both May and June, should push the relevant structures in Kazakhstan to work more closely with their Russian colleagues to solve common problems. The Russian experience of counter-terrorism operations and the prevention of terrorism may be a panacea for Kazakhstan’s problems.

    The loosening of the situation in Kazakhstan is another step towards Russia, following the example of Ukraine, Armenia-Azerbaijan, etc. Specialists should cooperate, this is undoubtedly. But the point is not so much in the exchange of experience in conducting special operations, so much in monitoring and tracking active and potential terrorists. Indeed, in addition to all the Turkish-Arab abomination, there is also a factor in the spread of extremism from the Russian North Caucasus. I have no doubt that Russian specialists are working effectively there, and the "clamping" of the Wachs there forces them to look for their new habitats. Here Kazakhstan is not bad, I hope only for now, for them. Joint work on this contingent will be very useful to everyone.
  • Humpty
    Humpty 16 June 2016 08: 11
    +2
    Quote: parusnik
    almost all Central Asian republics do not yet have immunity from "color" revolutions ... Until it begins to develop, perhaps in Kyrgyzstan ...


    It changes like the flu, so no one really gets immunity. The fight against "flu" is carried out through vaccination and quarantine. Infected with various types of gripper more than the natural level. There is not enough local vaccine, therefore they do not hesitate to use good advice and humanitarian aid from Russia. So far in Kyrgyzstan.
  • kuz363
    kuz363 16 June 2016 08: 20
    +2
    "The victims ... We have already mentioned this above. The victims could have been fewer." Of course, if the population was properly trained. One pensioner died in vain, because he climbed into the bottle because of his car, when the terrorists just wanted to take it. Although he was alone, and their crowd with weapons.
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 16 June 2016 08: 23
    -4
    Before that, we had more than rolled off in the form of all sorts of preferences. But the essence of the neighbors is such that we always owe them.
    Quote: CORNET
    Quote: kuz363
    For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.

    We do not buy ours ...!
  • CORNET
    CORNET 16 June 2016 08: 32
    -4
    Maybe it’s not too late to hold a "referendum" ... and the Kazakhs! wink
    1. Stas_77
      Stas_77 16 June 2016 10: 14
      +3
      Yes, calm down you, a little fire around Russia? You have no idea what is going on there, I come from there myself and often go there. Yes, I don’t like Nazarbayev’s politics on the world stage and even more so inside the country and the dominance of the security forces, but after him there will be a chaos, and bloody. ALL OF YOUR TIME.
    2. Dulat
      Dulat 16 June 2016 10: 26
      +1
      I know the result of any referendum in Kazakhstan, it will be in favor of Nazarbayev
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 16 June 2016 10: 37
        0
        Quote: Dulat
        I know the result of any referendum in Kazakhstan, it will be in favor of Nazarbayev

        Well, how can I say, depending on which referendum .... bully After all, they are different ..!
  • RussianRoulette
    RussianRoulette 16 June 2016 08: 35
    +16
    Let's try to figure it out using my own view of the situation from inside Kazakhstan:
    1. After the collapse of the Union, a kind of vacuum formed in the religious sphere of the Republic. The Slavic peoples were of little interest from the outside, but the Muslim population was always extremely moderate and righteous believers immediately "took on the pencil" and into the development to a greater extent by the Turks at that time, then, in all likelihood, the Americans picked up the situation and began to create a favorable environment for development in the minds of newly converted Muslims of various radical-directed currents of Islam, with the involvement of "specialists" from the Arab world.
    2. Nazarbayev, on the other hand, focused people's attention on drawing out a certain identity of the Kazakh indigenous population (the titular nation) through exaggerating issues to strengthen the position of the Kazakh language, self-digging of citizens in religious matters, because the people needed opium so that they wouldn’t get into the affairs of large uncles selling out Kazakhstan’s resources , pulling the legacy of the Union and growing rich by leaps and bounds.
    3. One of the time-bombing mines, from the so-called multi-vector policy of the president, was flirting with the Islamic world. He began to attract the countries of the Arab world to cooperation, continued to build ties with Turkey, announced that he was ready to accumulate all religious movements of Islam in Kazakhstan, and called our country almost the cradle of the Islamic world. As a result of all this, the tentacles began to slowly but surely penetrate the masses of the poorly educated, but striving for harmony with the Creator of the people. That Islam, which they began to introduce, was fundamentally at odds with what the Kazakhs have dealt with throughout their history.
    4. Power structures have turned into a kind of business, where you can get not according to your deserts, but through patronage, family ties, or even for a bribe. Positioning is this: not a dusty budget safe place to wipe pants. You can also squeeze something from a trustworthy population or entrepreneurs. All sorts of certifications exist only on paper. With the exception of a few special structures, everything is rather sad. The training run of the radicals, organized by small forces to check vigilance, gave the country's leadership valuable time to pull together in the same Aktyubinsk the small army of something powerful country officials.
    5. Nazarbayev is likely to remain the first and only president of Kazakhstan. Now, according to his feelings, he is engaged in the process of fundamentally inscribing himself into history. What will happen after, he has little concern. The main thing is that generations word of mouth convey the legend of the most wonderful time, when this great multi-vector miracle worker ruled the country.

    PS Many of the processes that Ukraine is now engaged in have long been quietly and unobtrusively carried out, or are being carried out to this day in Kazakhstan ... simply in an Asian way, leisurely and with a blurring of the eyes of Moscow, which is observing and hoping for a miracle.
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 16 June 2016 08: 41
      +3
      I agree with everything, the cops and the KNB only make money, real work in Aktobe showed hu from hu.
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 16 June 2016 11: 05
        -5
        Quote: Igor39
        I agree with everything, the cops and the KNB only make money, real work in Aktobe showed hu from hu.

        On the lakes of the north there, all the cops shelled ... the fat ones really became bai ..)))))
        Bakshish is growing and alga ... hi Wait next time in Astana (take out your families and what was earned by overwork ...)))) What is your cool special forces, we have already seen ... (I remember the photos were posted here, you have everything even foreign in shape ... )))) Well, forward the Kazakhs! bully
        1. Igor39
          Igor39 16 June 2016 11: 11
          +1
          Where to go? Where are they waiting for us? Do not make me laugh.
          1. CORNET
            CORNET 16 June 2016 14: 32
            -1
            Quote: Igor39
            Where to go? Where are they waiting for us? Do not make me laugh.

            They will say, just "you can" ... We'll run with rifle bikes ... Ahead are jeeps, cornfields, etc. Where are your igils ....? The special forces will not have time, that's for sure ... bully But seriously, then just at night they will kill all the freaks! ALL!
    2. Gvas1174
      Gvas1174 16 June 2016 09: 47
      +4
      Compatriot, for today your comment is the most adequate and informational, I will also subscribe to it, because "local" and sighted
      1. Talgat
        Talgat 16 June 2016 18: 59
        +1
        To my great regret, RussianRoulette is in many ways right

        But not everything is so gloomy. All these moments were present in the history of all states from Europe to Asia - and still are.

        Kazakhstan will cope, integration with the Russian Federation and Belarus will continue. The State will strengthen and strengthen the rule of law and pacify the oligarchs. There will be more justice and less gap between rich and poor. Of course, the USSR cannot be returned - but I hope for improvements
    3. Stas_77
      Stas_77 16 June 2016 10: 08
      +3
      I agree with everything 100%
  • guzik007
    guzik007 16 June 2016 09: 15
    +2
    Now it has become fashionable to say that "color revolutions" are an invention of the cunning Yankees. So I do not agree with this thesis. Everyone has somehow forgotten about the existence of a very interesting organization, like the Comintern. Well, they don't really like to remember it here. And it was the most powerful organization, if the AUCPB was considered only a branch. So these comrades mischievous before the war in Europe are cleaner than their modern students in the person of the Tsrushniki. And the terrorist attacks in Poland, and the attempts at revolution in Germany with the distribution of weapons from the walls of our embassy, ​​and there is plenty of everything if you figure it out. Only everything failed miserably. Something their burghers and peasants did not want to go to war for power.
    So the Yankees are not inventors in this case, but only imitators, although, admittedly, the students in many respects surpassed the teachers. Stalin had the strength and mind to disperse this shoblu (the Comintern).
  • Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin 16 June 2016 09: 29
    +2
    Many thanks to the Author! The article is probably the MOST ADEQUATE AND WEIGHED analytical review that was published in the Russian media.

    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    To raise a wave on a religious basis, the north of Kazakhstan is absolutely unsuitable. And because of the small size of the population, and because of the heterogeneity of religions. Brought everything. And there are no such clearly expressed religious sentiments in the north. For the second time.
    There is another point of view - where it is most mixed, the degree of mutual conflict and the degree of radicalism is easiest to shake.

    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    In general, unlike Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan is a weakly religious country. And, as strange as it sounds, there is no religious fanatic from the Kazakh. And because there was no proper preparation, and because of the internal world order.
    Everything is different - if the North of Kazakhstan is almost like people living in a secular, "Russian way", then the situation is changing in the center, and it is completely different in the South (there are traditions and customs, both clan and Islamic).

    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    Another question is how far the organizers of the action were interested in its success. Proceeding from the fact that local radical fanatics “worked”, who initially could not count on the support of the population (as events showed), under external control or not, it can be said with certainty that no one counted on success.
    Yes, success was not important for the performers - they had a goal either to become "martyrs" and allegedly reach the "Garden of Allah" with the Hurias, or to become famous "fighters against the regime" and gain even greater authority.

    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    Leadership can be located somewhere in Qatar or Saudi Arabia, instructors in any of the neighboring countries or even in Kazakhstan itself, and performers ... Performers are a headache for any country.
    Exactly. This is clearly a trial balloon. Only it is not yet clear - from whom. It doesn't look like Iran, the Caucasian or Afghan style is very clear - perhaps the threads go to the Saudis (or, for example, parallel groups of a smaller character - the Taliban Afghans or the Egyptian "Muslim brothers").
  • Max White
    Max White 16 June 2016 09: 39
    -1
    Quote: kuz363
    For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.

    "Plan" Chuisky ??? ...
    Petropavlovsk, Kostanay and Kokchetav for how much would you sell?

    PS people like you sell their homeland for silver coins ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. ultra
      ultra 16 June 2016 10: 31
      0
      Quote: Ereke
      ANALeteg one more)) how enraged these scribblers ..

      What prevents you from writing?
    2. Warrior2015
      Warrior2015 16 June 2016 10: 38
      0
      And what doesn’t suit you in Roman’s material?
  • Gvas1174
    Gvas1174 16 June 2016 09: 51
    0
    And catching up: those who live on the sidelines of events can confirm that in this region there are a large number of adherents of non-traditional Islam, a very large number, while one must understand who the Adais are, these are people who start with half a kick, and non-traditional Islam is good it’s good that this time it’s nothing
  • Bramb
    Bramb 16 June 2016 10: 35
    +2
    Quote: kuz363
    For the sum of billions of 100, you could easily buy Crimea from Ukraine. And everyone would be happy.

    ))))) Laugh, she-bo!
    Pay prepayment Khokhlov? They already owe 3 yards - where are they? So it would be with 100 yards.
    Secondly, Russia bought the Baltic states - and why do they have the right to vote, secession and so on?
    Thirdly, they did not pay for Alaska with us, but it is not ours, but American.
    As you can see, such issues are not decided at all by money.
    March to learn history !!!

    And about the satisfied Ukrainians. They left a state that had everything and even more without debts. Moreover, Russia helped them all 25 years - and what, are they happy?))))
    A crest is not a person in the general sense. This is such a cattle that needs to be whipped like a sidor goat from morning to evening!
  • Zymran
    Zymran 16 June 2016 11: 41
    +3
    Aktobe is not northern, but western Kazakhstan. The "terrorist attack", like all the previous ones in the region, was directed exclusively against the security forces and internal troops; civilians were simply released from the seized bus.

    But if we talk about Aktobe, then there is one thing that is not in Chimkent. Border with Russia.

    Perhaps this was the reason for choosing a place for rehearsal.


    By whom? For what purposes and why is the city bordering Russia so convenient?
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 12: 15
      -3
      Quote: Zymran
      By whom? For what purposes and why is the city bordering Russia so convenient?

      Well, it is clear by whom .... hi Oh, they would give them, deep into our territory to burst ... (by all means would be wetted ...) angry They chased by jeeps with firing, even to Alma-Ata, Turkey, China ...))))) Our "Alligators" and other turntables ... would not have stopped us .... We love nature ...!
  • marshes
    marshes 16 June 2016 11: 47
    +2
    Damn, interesting but work until the evening! smile
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 12: 05
      -1
      Quote: marshes
      Damn, interesting but work until the evening! smile

      I am on sick leave...))))) laughing
      1. marshes
        marshes 16 June 2016 13: 42
        0
        Quote: CORNET
        I am on sick leave...)))))

        Already everything, denyeshku earned. Slowly, "movement" began. Previously, only in March, something started and to NG 24 hours a day.
      2. V.ic
        V.ic 16 June 2016 13: 51
        +2
        Quote: CORNET
        I am on sick leave...)))))

        At the psychiatrist?
  • ABC
    ABC 16 June 2016 12: 15
    0
    Quote: CORNET
    Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

    What insults, he got already
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 12: 27
      +2
      Quote: Alphabet
      Quote: CORNET
      Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

      What insults, he got already

      Everything is normal Kazakhs .... We will fight as usual! hi A beautiful song and a table, as usual in Russia, and you think too!
  • Oskar1965
    Oskar1965 16 June 2016 12: 17
    -4
    Quote: CORNET
    Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

    Cornet, I'll tell you this, the Kazakhs should kiss Nazarbayev in all intimate places. If it were not for him, Kazakhstan would have turned into ruins with internecine clashes between various categories of zhuzes and clans. I myself am from Kustanai and therefore I am writing about this knowing firsthand, especially since some of my classmates live there in not frail ranks. If they (Muslim radicals) succeed in overthrowing Nazarbayev, then Russia will get such a hotbed of tension in its underbelly that Syria will seem like a game of children's war, this hotbed will not allow our citizens to sleep directly, because these are Muslim bandits and natural fans and for them to kill unfaithful for happiness and who do you think will be unfaithful? That's right - the Russians who live on the territory of Kazakhstan, I'm even afraid to write what they can do to them if they don't make their legs on time. And it will be led by the oligarchs raised by Nazarbayev and paid as always by the CIA and the Arab world to create another controlled chaos and a springboard for the deployment of NATO troops. Just not long ago I listened to the President of Kazakhstan on TV, who said that economically they would survive without Russia, but without Russia's support in foreign policy based on threats, no!
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 12: 33
      +1
      Quote: Oskar1965
      Quote: CORNET
      Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

      Cornet, I'll tell you this, the Kazakhs should kiss Nazarbayev in all intimate places. If it were not for him, Kazakhstan would have turned into ruins with internecine clashes between various categories of zhuzes and clans. I myself am from Kustanai and therefore I am writing about this knowing firsthand, especially since some of my classmates live there in not frail ranks. If they (Muslim radicals) succeed in overthrowing Nazarbayev, then Russia will get such a hotbed of tension in its underbelly that Syria will seem like a game of children's war, this hotbed will not allow our citizens to sleep directly, because these are Muslim bandits and natural fans and for them to kill unfaithful for happiness and who do you think will be unfaithful? That's right - the Russians who live on the territory of Kazakhstan, I'm even afraid to write what they can do to them if they don't make their legs on time. And it will be led by the oligarchs raised by Nazarbayev and paid as always by the CIA and the Arab world to create another controlled chaos and a springboard for the deployment of NATO troops. Just not long ago I listened to the President of Kazakhstan on TV, who said that economically they would survive without Russia, but without Russia's support in foreign policy based on threats, no!

      A lot of letters ....)))) Everything will be fine! hi
    2. redcod
      redcod 17 June 2016 10: 40
      +1
      And I think that not everything is so tragic. Normal political reform in Kazakhstan will not hinder the country's development. We say "A", we don't say "B". Yes, the National Academy of Sciences has not been in power for the first, or even the second, ten years. During this time, everything that was under the Union was destroyed, except for the extractive industry, and that is not a fact. Not a single collective farm-state farm, not a single processing and manufacturing enterprise was left. The entire mining industry is in the hands of offshore companies (that is, you know who), Western and Chinese companies. To change this situation, you just need to change the leadership. And not just change, but implement a political reform, making the Republic a parliamentary in the final version, naturally with transitional moments. As Joseph Vissarionovich said: "There are no irreplaceable people!" I completely agree with that. And by the way, in vain are you afraid of the nazpaths. You have them all. We have only a part.
  • ABC
    ABC 16 June 2016 13: 01
    +6
    Quote: Oskar1965
    Quote: CORNET
    Nazarbayev waited ... You need to leave on time! (No offense Kazakhs ..)

    Cornet, I'll tell you this, the Kazakhs should kiss Nazarbayev in all intimate places. If it were not for him, Kazakhstan would have turned into ruins with internecine clashes between various categories of zhuzes and clans. I myself am from Kustanai and therefore I am writing about this knowing firsthand, especially since some of my classmates live there in not frail ranks. If they (Muslim radicals) succeed in overthrowing Nazarbayev, then Russia will get such a hotbed of tension in its underbelly that Syria will seem like a game of children's war, this hotbed will not allow our citizens to sleep directly, because these are Muslim bandits and natural fans and for them to kill unfaithful for happiness and who do you think will be unfaithful? That's right - the Russians who live on the territory of Kazakhstan, I'm even afraid to write what they can do to them if they don't make their legs on time. And it will be led by the oligarchs raised by Nazarbayev and paid as always by the CIA and the Arab world to create another controlled chaos and a springboard for the deployment of NATO troops. Just not long ago I listened to the President of Kazakhstan on TV, who said that economically they would survive without Russia, but without Russia's support in foreign policy based on threats, no!

    You need you and kiss. If in due time a man like Lukashenka would come instead of Nazarbayev, it might have been different. Aman Tuleyev wanted to run with us, but Nazarbayev made a timely move by putting forward a number of demands and they gave him a turn from the gate. He himself dispersed all normal people who could object to him, point out to him his mistakes. His strategy - "economy first, then democracy" has not justified itself. In 25 years, the economy is barely breathing, and there is no sign of democracy.
    Horror stories about Muslim radicals, nationalism, etc. etc. these are all the games that the state allows to play, why, because it is a great distraction from the problems of the people in the economy and does not allow to see the true culprit.
    And if, God forbid, Kazakhstan begins to divide people by skin color, eye shape, consider it a lower race, I will do everything possible and impossible to help them. Moreover, there are Russian friends, Koreans
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 13: 16
      -3
      Quote: Alphabet
      And if, God forbid, Kazakhstan begins to divide people by skin color, eye shape, consider it a lower race, I will do everything possible and impossible to help them. Moreover, there are Russian friends, Koreans

      laughing laughing I would shoot you! But it’s a pity ...
      1. ABC
        ABC 16 June 2016 13: 49
        +2
        Why is this, will you shoot me? What did I do wrong that the sniper went hunting for me?
        1. CORNET
          CORNET 16 June 2016 13: 55
          0
          Quote: Alphabet
          Why is this, will you shoot me? What did I do wrong that the sniper went hunting for me?

          What for...? laughing Funny you just .. hi
          1. ABC
            ABC 16 June 2016 14: 03
            +1
            Hmmm what and the answer is somehow ... okay
    2. marshes
      marshes 16 June 2016 13: 46
      0
      Quote: Alphabet
      If, in due time, instead of Nazarbayev, a person like Lukashenko came to say, it would have been possible differently.

      And what happened, in the world we will seek who will give credit.
      Quote: Alphabet
      Aman Tuleyev wanted to run for us, but Nazarbayev made a fuss in time putting forward a number of demands and he was given a turn from the goal.

      When? He was born in Turkmenistan in general.
      Quote: Alphabet
      And if, God forbid,

      Quote: Alphabet
      Moreover, there are Russian friends, Koreans

      Russian or Korean?
      1. ABC
        ABC 16 June 2016 14: 00
        +1
        Why look for a loan, I think that with those starting opportunities and natural resources that Kazakhstan got, if we had a leader who really thought about the country, we would not be the second Singapore, we would live much more worthy than now.
        Yes, it doesn’t matter, even from Yakutia, the main thing is for a person with his head, and not with his pockets.
        And there are Koreans, these are father's classmates, we communicate with families and Russians, and this is my circle of friends. What's wrong?
        1. marshes
          marshes 16 June 2016 14: 11
          +3
          Quote: Alphabet
          Why look for a loan, I think that with the starting opportunities and natural wealth that Kazakhstan got,

          With what starting opportunities, in the 90s, the start was interesting, except for Turkey and Qatar, no one gave money in debt.
          The priest was terrible, that part of the population simply dumped and where to go to the Kazakh.
  • foxxi
    foxxi 16 June 2016 13: 26
    +1
    Quote - "According to the Kazakh departments, today the number of the same Salafis is estimated at 13-15 thousand. Compared to the general population, it is a drop in the bucket."
    I'm afraid this figure is clearly underestimated ... There are many more ... and their number is growing, and mostly young people are ... the text also says about the youth Salafi movement at 00 ... it continued ... its nobody especially did not "close and did not drive". In the 7s, they ruined the Sufi direction of Islam, pushing its adherents-organizers for 15-XNUMX years, by the way, they clearly "countered" with the Salafis, so they sorted out hard with them so that they would not interfere with building a "bright Salafi future." And to talk about weak religiousness ... when Kazakhstanis have appeared in Daesh / ISIS, too, it is no longer possible ... but at the same time, to say that the participants in the events in Aktobe are purely religious fanatics is also stupid, as it does not fit in and the obvious weakness of preparation and manner execution. Perhaps everything in this business and more than anything else is a trial balloon. As for the struggle between the zhuzes and the clans ... I personally do not consider this to be the case yet, due to their absence as such, the clans are still in one place and look in one direction, under the strict guidance of the right person.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 13: 32
      0
      Soak everyone! We would have to agree .. It's easy!
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 16 June 2016 13: 54
    +5
    Cornet’s second bottle is over; interestingly, he’ll master the third.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 13: 57
      0
      Quote: Chisain
      Cornet’s second bottle is over; interestingly, he’ll master the third.

      Judge for yourself ..)))) Well, sometimes I’ll blurt out ... laughing
      1. Stas_77
        Stas_77 16 June 2016 19: 33
        +1
        Something, you blur often
    2. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 13: 59
      0
      Quote: Chisain
      Cornet’s second bottle is over; interestingly, he’ll master the third.

      And who are you dear ...?
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 16 June 2016 14: 10
    +5
    Nda, Cornet today, 12: 05th on sick leave. 12: 27-we will fight as usual. 12: 33-everything will be fine. 13: 32-soak everyone. Sitting on the sick-list, healing battle wounds, it’s good to reason, you’ll probably throw crutches, and in a dream you will raise a company to attack.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 16 June 2016 15: 05
      -2
      Quote: Chisain
      Nda, Cornet today, 12: 05th on sick leave. 12: 27-we will fight as usual. 12: 33-everything will be fine. 13: 32-soak everyone. Sitting on the sick-list, healing battle wounds, it’s good to reason, you’ll probably throw crutches, and in a dream you will raise a company to attack.

      There is nothing to talk about in this thread ... I explained everything to them! Well, maybe five will be like below and EVERYTHING! hi
      So your malice ... Not appropriate! (check here ....))))) hi
      1. Chisayna
        Chisayna 16 June 2016 15: 20
        +2
        I beg your pardon. I was wrong, it was you who were awarded a secret decree of the VVP and you were taken out of the wounded in a submarine ... But you can't talk about this out loud. And tell me, secretly, did you personally knock "these"?
  • marshes
    marshes 16 June 2016 14: 41
    0
    For me, what happened in Aktobe was a planned attack, the purpose of which was the seizure of weapons. The ultimate goal is the seizure of the Correctional Facility, tired of the "authorities" on "bunks," so they launched "torpedoes".
    By the way, in the west, as they say, they do not live according to "concepts", they do not pay in the common fund. There is a "Dagestan version of thieves in law" with an emphasis on religiosity. It is cheaper to recruit new fighters.
    Who should work there is the Ministry of Internal Affairs for org. crime. Well, the KNB should not be asleep.
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 16 June 2016 14: 49
      +2
      I don’t think that it was Black who muddied it. Wahi seems to live by their own concepts. In Kazakhstan, all zones are red. The cops press precisely observing Muslims in prisons and in the wild. So the answer went for everything.
      Remember, about 5 years ago, there was an article saying that some Muslim leader from the Maghreb countries allowed our wahs to shoot at the cops? Even then, it was necessary to listen to this and take measures.

      And then I'm not too religious person, but now everyone who wears a beard or hijab will fall under the distribution, and not all of them are extremists now, but they can become so or sympathetic under pressure from the authorities and in protest.
      1. marshes
        marshes 16 June 2016 15: 18
        +1
        Quote: Zymran
        I don’t think that it was Black who muddied it. Wahi seem to live by their own concepts.

        They are not now called "green". Ah, there is practically none at all, our home-grown. It is from the west and Red's cousin.
        Quote: Zymran
        . The cops press precisely observing Muslims in prisons and in the wild.

        They put pressure on everyone, the other day there was about a judaist, the culprits are like that ... "activists".
        Quote: Zymran
        Remember, about 5 years ago, there was an article saying that some Muslim leader from the Maghreb countries allowed our wahs to shoot at the cops? Even then, it was necessary to listen to this and take measures.

        Yes, but how did they react.
        The same infa was slowed down by a car with beards, they were supposed to rescue their own, like someone had taken a car from him in Atyrau. Bits, fittings.
        Quote: Zymran
        And then I'm not too religious person, but now everyone who wears a beard or hijab will fall under the distribution, and not all of them are extremists now, but they can become so or sympathetic under pressure from the authorities and in protest.

        Well, a beard, if a Kazakh is a traditionalist, you can wear a normal beard if you’re the oldest in the family and you have a mustache.
        A woman in a hijab, why not wear national clothes. Hide the hair, so put on a normal shawl. By the way, my wife when guests, relatives are always in a shawl. She is German, and she puts on clothes when cooking.
        I have a chapan and skullcap, I don’t wear a beard - I don’t have to put it at least quickly.
        Traditions should be honored to honor one's own people. One can consider himself a Westerner, but I do not forget my relatives.
        1. Zymran
          Zymran 16 June 2016 15: 44
          +2
          Quote: marshes
          They put pressure on everyone, the other day there was about a judaist, the culprits are like that ... "activists".


          Well yes. But religious ones are more united and can give an answer directly to a citizen, unlike ordinary convicts.

          Quote: marshes
          Well, a beard, if a Kazakh is a traditionalist, you can wear a normal beard if you’re the oldest in the family and you have a mustache.


          We do not have this (in the north). I myself wear a stubble and a type of goatee, but you are tormented by leveling and caring. =)

          Quote: marshes
          A woman in a hijab, why not wear national clothes. Hide the hair, so put on a normal shawl. By the way, my wife when guests, relatives are always in a shawl. She is German, and she puts on clothes when cooking.


          My ex also wore. Uyghur with SKO. =) But in general, I am for religious freedom, while it does not infringe on others. If you want, go to anything, but do not impose on others. Taki I am a liberal.

          Returning to the attack: all the same, this is primarily a showdown between the Wahs on the one hand and the cops on the other. No more and no less. That is my opinion.
          1. marshes
            marshes 16 June 2016 16: 04
            +1
            Quote: Zymran
            Well yes. But religious ones are more united and can give an answer directly to a citizen, unlike ordinary convicts.

            For this reason, the indoor special has been lobbying for more than five years, human rights activists and so on. oppose.
            Quote: Zymran
            We do not have this (in the north). I myself wear a stubble and a type of goatee, but you are tormented by leveling and caring. =)

            Well, you are a little out of touch, for a number of reasons. As if more "civilized" in contrast to the southerners. smile We have southerners, the beards are different, so take a singer Nurlan Abdulin.
            I shave myself as they say in the morning for the bosses in the evening for the wife, in both cases ... laughing
            Quote: Zymran
            But in general, I am for religious freedom, while it does not infringe on others. If you want, go to anything, but do not impose on others. Taki I am a liberal.

            I completely agree with this, the relatives went like that at 90-00, for the husband no one brother like the aunt had blasted them ... the carcasses of the light ... now everything is with the husband.
            Quote: Zymran
            Returning to the attack: all the same, this is primarily a showdown between the Wahs on the one hand and the cops on the other. No more and no less. That is my opinion.

            It is quite possible that earlier in Uralsk they took a large huckster with drugs, maybe they corrected them from the Zone ... in short, FIG knows. but the money from the budget in Aktobe went ...
        2. Zymran
          Zymran 16 June 2016 15: 46
          +1
          Quote: marshes
          They are not now called "green". Ah, there is practically none at all, our home-grown. It is from the west and Red's cousin.


          Red from Semsk. Pride of all specific boys from East Kazakhstan region. =) His father, however, publishes books on the history of Kazakhstan, worked in the Omsk archive. Good creatives, but hard to get.
          1. marshes
            marshes 16 June 2016 16: 08
            +1
            Quote: Zymran
            Red from Semsk. Pride of all specific boys from East Kazakhstan region. =) His father, however, publishes books on the history of Kazakhstan, worked in the Omsk archive. Good creatives, but hard to get.

            Personally, he knew, his brother with my older brother and Kairat Satybaldy studied at the same course in RS (V) Shi to them. Baurzhan Momysh-Ula.
            Red and in Ata were respected, although they were their own, they were still alive.
            1. Aposlya
              Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 46
              0
              Quote: marshes
              Red and in Ata were respected, although they were their own, they were still alive.


              Respected and respected now. When he was killed, his father was very surprised to read a note in the Caravan, he turned out to be a relative.
              Nasipbay did not live in his family; he was, as it were, on the sidelines. Although most likely he did not want to substitute a family ...
              Although of course it is strange - another brother in the financial field, another one seems to be a lawyer ... Everything mixed up in the 90s ...
              They were not allowed to bury in the city, as a result, the funeral was in the area ...
              Yes, in those days, many local authorities simply shot specialists from organs ...
              Remember the festival? What about Black Diamond?
        3. Aposlya
          Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 39
          0
          Quote: marshes
          They are not now called "green". Ah, there is practically none at all, our home-grown. It is from the west and Red's cousin.


          What red?
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 17 June 2016 13: 16
      0
      Quote: marshes
      For me, what happened in Aktobe was a planned attack whose purpose was to seize weapons.


      It was just "reconnaissance in force".
      Ordinary performers stupidly allowed for meat - as a consumable. While they were trying to show something of themselves there, as a force, those who put them to the meat simply watched the reaction of the country's leadership, as well as the promptness of the actions of law enforcement agencies.

      In the future, to draw the necessary conclusions for themselves. When it is already a serious matter it will be necessary to crank.
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 18 June 2016 09: 52
        0
        Quote: wanderer_032
        While they were trying to show something of themselves there, as a force, those who put them to the meat simply watched the reaction of the country's leadership, as well as the promptness of the actions of law enforcement agencies.


        Most likely you are right in your thoughts - it was just a shot, to see how the authorities would react to such a trick-terror act. Well, far-reaching consequences probably did not even think ...
  • Shustov
    Shustov 16 June 2016 16: 36
    0
    You write there about Ukraine and Kazakhstan, but also about Russia, do not forget the World Cup in 2018 is just around the corner, mercenaries from around the world will come to study the situation, agents will stir in 2017, it’s better to collect some squads otherwise than we will be with bare hands.
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 17 June 2016 23: 50
      0
      Quote: Shustov
      but also about Russia do not forget the World Cup in 2018 is just around the corner


      Something Europeans' actions about Russian athletes annoy me - the Olympics are already closed for them. And so before the 2018 World Cup get ... pah-pah ...
      It is evident that this attack is for political reasons. Now the Russian fans are squeezed in Marseilles, although there are no riots organized by the British in the port in the same place ...
  • haenx
    haenx 16 June 2016 20: 31
    +1
    The events in Aktobe are similar to the staging act of the special services and PR technologists for the further implementation of the "receiver" scenario. Most likely, soon we will see a strong and at the same time obedient to the clans of the family of the president of the successor. Which is modern will bring the Leader of the Nation's plan to an active point. I don't even mind if they are comrade Samat Abishev, he is a smart, pragmatic student and teacher of the Soviet school.
  • Zymran
    Zymran 16 June 2016 22: 22
    +2
    More or less objective view of the terrorist attacks in Aktobe from a Russian expert. http://www.apn.ru/publications/article35105.htm
  • Olena
    Olena 17 June 2016 05: 43
    +1
    -Many people start talking ... about Kazakhstan with absolutely no idea ... -who are Kazakhs ... -Many in Russia simply did not encounter Kazakhs and in general ... -Do not communicate with them ...
    -And meanwhile ...- everything looks not so much and "innocent" ...
    -This can be easily "observed" in the Russian city of Omsk ...
    -Firstly ... -Kazakhs will never conflict with each other, let alone fight with each other ... -With Russians, but not among themselves ... -Especially Kazakh youth ...
    - Personally, I have repeatedly witnessed conflicts (or rather fights), when young Kazakhs quickly enough and with a clear advantage smashed the faces of their Russian peers ... - Yes, and with the Russian older "non-peers", too, they especially "did not stand on ceremony" ... -Yes, that's right ... -Russian youth is quite infantile, physically much weaker and "fearfully-politically correct" ... -And the Kazakh is more physically prepared, trained and united ... -and can only argue among themselves at the level of verbal skirmish , but to fight ... -Never ... -That's how the Kazakhs beat the weak, pampered Russian youth ...
    -Secondly ... -In the same Omsk it is very easy to pay attention, and it (this attention) itself will "turn" to the abundance of young people (especially children) of Kazakh nationality ... -I don’t know what the birth rate of Kazakhs is in Kazakhstan itself, but in the same city of Omsk, some areas of this city already simply resemble Kazakhstan ... -Kazakh youth get married very early (at the age of 18) and by the age of 30 such a family already has at least three children. .. -You can easily compare the results of such a demographic "geometric progression" that has existed in Omsk for more than 25 years ... -Moreover, according to the older residents of the city of Omsk .. -before, during the Soviet era ... -that was not the case ...
    - In no way do I want to offend anyone, but all this adds "certain features" to the no longer prosperous, "waning" city of Omsk ...
    -I don’t dare to judge what kind of development Kazakhstan received under Nazarbayev’s rule .., but, once a flourishing city of Omsk ..., after twenty years of managing it, L.K. Polezhaev, a Kazakhstani native (protege) turned into ... absolute nothing ...
    -Once again I have to repeat ... -I didn’t in any way set out to offend anyone ...
    1. redcod
      redcod 17 June 2016 10: 02
      +1
      In fact, all of South Siberia, including Altai, was Kazakh land. I agree that you conquered it by the right of the strong. But our ancestors always lived there and herded their herds there. There we are not, but you are newcomers.
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 17 June 2016 10: 29
        0
        Quote: redcod
        In fact, all of South Siberia, including Altai, was Kazakh land. I agree that you conquered it by the right of the strong. But our ancestors always lived there and herded their herds there. There we are not, but you are newcomers.

        Well, more detail ..)))) Familiar intonation ... hi (nothing was left in northern Kazakhstan) EVERYTHING is destroyed and neglected, even wild animals are gone ....
      2. Olena
        Olena 17 June 2016 12: 55
        +2
        -How is it that Southern Siberia and Altai were "Kazakh land" ..? -In what century did Kazakhs become a "nationality" at all ..? -In what century did the Kazakhs have a written language (no, not the Latin European alphabet, but a writing based on the Cyrillic alphabet) ..? ... -So ... -Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens already had statehood, their cities, ... and their written language ... -And the Kazakhs "began" all this somehow, with a great squeak to "cultivate" only at the end of the 19th century ... -Kazakhs are Mongoloids, and all Mongoloids were gradually ousted in the steppe by more developed time by peoples-tribes ... -There were nomadic tribes in the steppes, which were not yet occupied by other peoples ... -Like Kalmyks suddenly found themselves in the European part of Russia ... -There were other nomadic peoples, who were pushed into the forests, taiga, to the north ... -The Evenks were also a large nomadic people before, but then, under the onslaught of stronger tribes .., were forced to become small forest dwellers, taiga inhabitants and become reindeer breeders ... -Kazakhs luckier ... - to protect them in due time, "harnessed" all the State your Russian ... and Russia literally saved them from "formidable neighbors" ... -the same Uzbeks, Uighurs, etc. ... -From that moment, nomadic tribes became Kazakhs (Kara-Kazakhs, Kyrgyz) and began to develop as a separate the people ... - and their neighbors no longer oppressed them ... - The Kyrgyz, who are close to the Kazakhs "in ethnicity" and language, received their land a little differently ... - but the "principle" is about the same ... - And the status of "territorial" statehood "to the Kazakhs (as well as the Kirghiz, Turkmens, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Azerbaijanis, etc.) have already been" presented "by the Bolsheviks ... -And the Kazakhs were" cut "so much territorial land that they themselves probably did not expect such" generosity ".., literally" from the sky "...
        Again ... - did not want to offend anyone, I apologize for some historical "inaccuracies", "ran" hastily .., but the "leitmotif" is absolutely accurate ...
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 17 June 2016 14: 36
          +1
          Olena, so you have decided where the weak peoples are crowded out in the steppe as the Mongoloids of the Kazakhs and Kalmyks, to the forests and taiga as Evenks, and maybe to the mountains like Chechens? And where strong peoples live if the steppes, forests and mountains are occupied by weak peoples. By the way, I will tell you the secret of the Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, etc., to the Cyrillic alphabet perfectly managed the Arabian woman for hundreds of years, and only the Bolsheviks translated the written language of the Turks into the Cyrillic alphabet, this also applies to the Tatars, Bashkirs, Nogais, etc.
          1. Olena
            Olena 17 June 2016 15: 45
            0
            -I didn’t quite understand you .. although you write in Cyrillic, not Arabic ...
            -Kazakhs, Kyrgyz ... -these are somewhat different peoples than Uzbeks ... -But they can somehow be attributed to the same language group ... -Although Uzbeks are somewhat shy of Kazakhs and distance themselves from them ... Tajiks and Turkmens ... is a completely different people ...
            -Yes, Tajiks and Turkmens easily used arabica ... -Well, and where are the Kazakhs ..? -And how did Kazakhs suddenly use Arabica when they mastered writing at the end of the 19th century ... -No, well, in principle, they could, of course ... -But it didn't become a "craze" ... -Hahah. .. -Could you tell me where the "centuries-old literary works" of Kazakh literature are kept ... -What secret library are these incunabula and folios stored in ...?
            -I once tried to find the works of Ch. Valikhanov ... -But, I only found that the literary works of a Kazakh scientist, historian, ethnography, etc. ... are presented in four to five volumes and are stored ... - But where they are stored ... -so could not be found ...
            -Kazakhs have Abai Kunanbayev, who actually founded the Kazakh written literary creativity ... at the end of the 19th century ... -So he did not hide the fact that Kazakh literature borrowed a lot from Russian literature, which actually had to time, a centuries-old history ... -then Turar Ryskulov became his follower and so on ... -But for some reason the Kazakhs themselves obviously do not "love" their Abai Kunanbayev ... -they believe that he is wrong ... -Well, what can you say ...
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 17 June 2016 20: 17
              +3
              Well, I write to you in Russian in Cyrillic, if you don’t already understand, then this is a difficult case, what can I say if I write in Kazakh even Cyrillic, Latin, Arabic, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Turkic-speaking peoples, Tajiks, Iranian-speaking . Uzbeks and Kazakhs may not be in the best relations, so these are trifles compared to war and hostility among the Slavs. The epos Alpamys, Koblandy, enlik kayuek, etc. are literary contributions, but you do not need to know that you are great. H Valikhanov is an ordinary sultan offspring in the service of the Russian Tsar. By the way, Abai Kunanbaev wrote Arabic in Kazakh, and the Kazakhs have a different attitude towards him and his work, but I think your Russians have a different attitude to their thinkers. Of course, writing was not a failure for the Turks, but like Slavs until the 20th century. The literacy of most people is the achievement of the 20th century. but in general there was no written language, there was no state, there was no nationality, there were no cities, there were no lands, could Kazakhs be extraterrestrials?
            2. Aposlya
              Aposlya 18 June 2016 00: 20
              +1
              Quote: olena
              -I didn’t quite understand you .. although you write in Cyrillic, not Arabic ...
              -Kazakhs, Kyrgyz ... -these are somewhat different peoples than Uzbeks ... -But they can somehow be attributed to the same language group ... -Although Uzbeks are somewhat shy of Kazakhs and distance themselves from them ... Tajiks and Turkmens ... is a completely different people ...


              Yes, here is an example of such books: http://kub.kz/culture/10230-v-mangistauskoy-oblasti-deti-nashli-drevnie-knigi.ht
              ml

              During the transition to the Latin alphabet during the formation of Soviet power in Kazakhstan, old books were simply stupidly taken to ravines and burned. The most valuable samples were brought to Kazan, Moscow and Leningrad. There was an article in the media that Russia would transmit to Kazakhstan digitized texts of books stored in the vaults of Russian museums.
              Olena, I’m sorry, but from ignorance of the history the campaign is already demolishing the tower ...
              And by the way, Tajiks are different people for us, but the Turkmens are our distant relatives - the Oghuz Turks ...
              1. aquatic
                aquatic 20 June 2016 21: 23
                0
                could you give a link to at least a couple of books from the most valuable samples preserved since then?) which books were not burnt under the Soviet regime, there was nothing to burn.
                1. Aposlya
                  Aposlya 21 June 2016 16: 54
                  -2
                  Quote: aquatic
                  no books were burned during the Soviet era, there was nothing to burn.


                  You still say that the poet Abay immediately wrote in Russian! laughing

                  Read: http://www.kazpravda.kz/articles/view/ee-velichestvo-kniga1/

                  Or here: http://www.newskaz.ru/culture/20100924/800432.html

                  Digital copies of ancient and rare Kazakh books were donated by the Russian National Library to the National Library of Kazakhstan, Russian media reported.
                  The solemn presentation of the book collection took place the day before in St. Petersburg.
                  “We are, as it were, returning the national treasure of Kazakhstan to its homeland. Digital technologies allow us to do this without destroying or moving the collection, ”Irina Linden, deputy director general of the Russian National Library for External Relations, quoted the media as saying.
                  1. aquatic
                    aquatic 21 June 2016 18: 00
                    +3
                    what links did you show about Kazakh books, does the first link not mention a single Kazakh author in the Kazakh language before 1938, or did I not read it carefully?
                    In the second link, the specific information is zero.

                    once again I ask) provide a link to a digital copy of the book in the Kazakh language which with the advent of Soviet power could be called old, a hundred years minus normal? if so, it turns out earlier than 1817.

                    and yes about the great Abay is not necessary ...
                    did you listen to the song on "Tatiana's Letter" in Kazakh? this is Abai.

                    “We need to learn Russian literacy - the spiritual wealth, knowledge and art and other innumerable secrets are stored in the Russian language. The Russian language will open our eyes to the world. Russian science and culture is the key to world treasures. Anyone else who owns this key will get it without much effort ”guess who said that?

                    Persian and Arabic in which Abai wrote his first poems, Kazakh languages ​​yes?
        2. Aposlya
          Aposlya 18 June 2016 00: 03
          -3
          Quote: olena
          -How is it that Southern Siberia and Altai were "Kazakh land" ..?

          Since the time of the Hunnu Empire, and after the Turkic Haganate ...
          Quote: olena
          In what century did Kazakhs become a "nationality" at all ..?

          The first written mentions of the KAZAK people in relation to the Kazakh tribes were in the 10th century among the Persians - as they called the Kangly and Kipchak tribes, which are composed of the ethnogenesis of the Kazakhs.
          Quote: olena
          In what century did the Kazakhs have written language (not the Latin European alphabet, but written alphabet based on the Cyrillic alphabet)?

          The Türks used runic writing before BC, as evidenced by a bronze dish with Turkic runes found in the famous Issyk barrow, where the Golden Man was also found. Runes were used until the 7-8th century. After that, the so-called Old Uigur script began to be used, until about the 14th century. With the adoption of Islam by the Kazakhs, the Chagatai letter was widely introduced - Arabic script on the Turkic phoneme - lasted until 1930, when the Latin alphabet was already introduced. Well, in the 40s they also introduced the Cyrillic alphabet. So the writing of the ancestors of the Kazakhs was back in those days, when Europe also didn’t really have it ...
          Quote: olena
          -Kazakhs were more fortunate ... -the entire Russian State was "harnessed" to protect them ... and Russia literally saved them from "formidable neighbors" ... -the same Uzbeks, Uighurs, etc.

          Olena! I have a feeling that you are studying history from comics! When the Kazakh Khanate entered the Russian Empire, the ancestors of modern Uzbeks and Uighurs were not called that - they were called Sarts. And they could not bear any danger to the Kazakhs at all. By the way, at that time the city of Tashkent was part of the Kazakh Khanate, which was even recorded in the agreement with Russia. They became Uzbeks and Uighurs only in 1921. But "nomadic Uzbeks" (Kazak-Ozbek) were the very names of the ancestors of modern Kazakhs on the territory of modern Uzbekistan, i.e. nomadic Turks of Turkestan.
          Quote: olena
          -From this moment, the nomadic tribes became Kazakhs (Kara-Kazakhs, Kyrgyz) and began to develop as a separate people ...- and their neighbors no longer oppressed ... -

          You are incomparable in your naivety! Well, the brain is not directly burdened with knowledge! laughing
          Quote: olena
          The Kyrgyz, who are close to the Kazakhs "in ethnicity" and language, received their land somewhat differently ... -but the "principle" is about the same ... -And the status of "territorial statehood" to the Kazakhs (however, as well as the Kyrgyz, Turkmen, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Azerbaijanis, etc.) have already been "presented" by the Bolsheviks ... -And at the same time, the Kazakhs were "cut" so much territorial land that they themselves probably did not expect such "bounties" .., literally "from the sky" ...

          Neighing! laughing This is probably the consequences of the exam-education?
          1. Olena
            Olena 18 June 2016 05: 03
            0
            -My God, oh, how interesting ... -0th, stay with your opinion ... -Nothing else from such "experts" and you should not expect ... -In Kazakhstan, there are a lot of all kinds of "works" and "scientific investigations "where the authors can easily" argue "with the current Ukrainian" historical investigators "... -What are Ukrainian, that Kazakh similar historical" scientific research "is absolutely on the same level ... -That now it becomes clear that Kazakhs in their time helped the Ukrainians to "dig" the Black Sea ... -Well, they helped and helped ... -and the flag to them ... or whatever ...- shovel into their hands ...
            -Did further ... and laugh ...
            1. Simpsonian
              Simpsonian 18 June 2016 05: 12
              -2
              If it’s neighing like that, he’s carved himself, they write on birch bark with a runic letter, as on benches, but not on parchment (leather) ... Well, who writes to them in those places?
              1. Aposlya
                Aposlya 18 June 2016 05: 36
                -1
                Quote: Simpsonian
                If it’s neighing like that, he’s carved himself, they write on birch bark with a runic letter, as on benches, but not on parchment (leather) ... Well, who writes to them in those places?


                It would be better not to be disgraced! They wrote on birch bark with "cuts and lines", not in runes. And the Slavs did not have runic writing.
                Here is a sample of Turkic runic writing:

                1. Simpsonian
                  Simpsonian 18 June 2016 07: 43
                  -1
                  Continue to dishonor - in Russian "lines and cuts" this is a runic letter.
                  They write on the skin with squiggles. laughing
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Aposlya
                    Aposlya 18 June 2016 09: 37
                    0
                    Quote: Simpsonian
                    Continue to dishonor - in Russian "lines and cuts" this is a runic letter.
                    They write on the skin with squiggles.


                    Here are the "cuts and lines" on a birch bark letter. Here, even an uninformed person understands that this is an alphabetic letter, and not runes.



                    And here is the runic letter.

                    1. Simpsonian
                      Simpsonian 18 June 2016 20: 32
                      -3
                      "Traits and cuts" is in Russian "runic writing". The word "rune" is not Russian.

                      This letter is most likely a crap remake, judging by the outlines
                      1. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 19 June 2016 13: 17
                        -2
                        Quote: Simpsonian
                        "Traits and cuts" is in Russian "runic writing". The word "rune" is not Russian.

                        This letter is most likely a crap remake, judging by the outlines


                        Maybe then you yourself give a photo is not a remake?
                        Here it is, for example, and as we see ordinary letters as well ...
                      2. Simpsonian
                        Simpsonian 19 June 2016 21: 46
                        0
                        Well, with the runes? lol
                      3. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 20 June 2016 15: 29
                        -2
                        Quote: Simpsonian
                        Well, with the runes?


                        And here are the runes themselves - the stele of Kultegin, prince of the Eastern Turkic Haganate:



                        Well, where are your "runes - cut features"? smile
                      4. Simpsonian
                        Simpsonian 20 June 2016 18: 06
                        -1
                        In the kaganate - runes? wassat
                      5. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 21 June 2016 16: 49
                        -2
                        As they say - Learn the materiel!
                        http://bitig.org/?lang=r&mod=1&tid=1&oid=15&m=1

                        Well, will there be "Slavic runes" or nothing but idle talk from you? smile
                      6. Simpsonian
                        Simpsonian 21 June 2016 18: 28
                        +1
                        You can roll it up into a pipe and smoke, if there was a stylized Middle Eastern letter in the kaganates, then Russians or other white slaves could write in "runes" (there are also white Tatars). Or free until.
                  3. Simpsonian
                    Simpsonian 21 June 2016 19: 21
                    +3
                    Quote: Aposlya
                    Well, where are your "runes - cut features"?

                    With "runes" (features and cuts) they wanted from you, you stuck it in with the Cyrillic alphabet ...
                    Quote: Aposlya
                    Quote: Simpsonian
                    Well, with the runes?


                    What is your goal, are you trying to place birch bark Cyrillic letters instead of with "lines and cuts" to create the impression that there was no written language in Russia before the Bulgarian one? So even similar Cyrillic archaeologists "found" only half a century ago ... According to the party line, and before that of the Germanophiles, it was considered that the Russian people were illiterate, but here you understand - birch bark, which is a public material for writing.
                    Before the Cyrillic alphabet, there were several ways of writing. Each alphabet was for its material on which it was more convenient for her to write.
                    But it’s bad - birch trees usually don’t grow in the steppe, and you can knock almost anything on the stone with anything, only with the availability, speed of everyday writing and transportation there will be difficulties ...
  • Aposlya
    Aposlya 18 June 2016 05: 39
    0
    Quote: olena
    -In Kazakhstan there are a lot of all kinds of "works" and "scientific investigations", where authors can easily "argue" with the current Ukrainian "historical investigators" ...


    Well, there are plenty of such everywhere, take at least Russia with its Fomenko and Nosovsky, Chudinov and Levashov, Tverdokhlebov and Hinevich ... laughing
  • aquatic
    aquatic 20 June 2016 21: 31
    0
    in vain you neighing, Olena told you everything correctly, read for example Pyotr Ivanovich Rychkov.
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 17 June 2016 13: 00
    -1
    Quote: redcod
    In fact, all of South Siberia, including Altai, was Kazakh land. I agree that you conquered it by the right of the strong. But our ancestors always lived there and herded their herds there. There we are not, but you are newcomers.


    Which one is fierce. laughing

    Actually, there the jungars were operating in full. Until the Russian Cossacks and troops arrived and created a network of border fortifications.

    By the way, to recall how Kazakhstan appeared in general and what place the Kazakhs occupied in its current territory when the Dzhungars ruled there? wink
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 18 June 2016 00: 25
      0
      Quote: wanderer_032
      Actually, there the jungars were operating in full. Until the Russian Cossacks and troops arrived and created a network of border fortifications.


      Can you name at least one Russian battle against the Dzungars? I think it will not be able to - there were none. I will tell you even more - the Dzungars were subjects of the Russian Empire.
      It was the Kazakhs themselves who slaughtered the Dzungars in the end on their territory. But the Russians really - sat on the fortresses, forts, but did not intervene in the massacre ...

      Quote: wanderer_032
      By the way, to recall how Kazakhstan appeared in general and what place the Kazakhs occupied in its current territory when the Dzhungars ruled there?


      And where are they now? The Kazakhs have remained, but the descendants of the Dzungars - Kalmyks, is there something about 200 thousand in total in Russia? winked
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 18 June 2016 08: 09
        +1
        Quote: Aposlya
        Dzhungars were subjects of the Russian Empire.

        laughing

        And precisely for this reason:

        In 1713, the Siberian governor, Prince Gagarin, sent Peter I gold purchased from nomads, and informed the tsar that gold was in large quantities near the city of Yarkend (East Turkestan). This was the reason for the organization of the expedition, at the head of which Peter I put Lieutenant Colonel Ivan Dmitrievich Bukholts. In the decree, in addition to the search for gold, Bukholcez was charged with the duty to build a fortress on Lake Yamyshevsky and find out the possibilities of developing Russian trade in the area. With a small team of officers and soldiers, Bukholz came from Petersburg to Tobolsk, where the expedition began preparations.

        The detachment’s equipment took more than seven months. People were recruited in Tobolsk and other cities, and “healthy and sharp-witted” were selected. In addition to the soldiers, blacksmiths, foresters and other specialists were included in the detachment. On the advice of the tsar, the captured Swedes were taken on an expedition, who "are skilled in engineering and understand minerals." A total of about 3000 people.

        In the summer of 1715, the expedition hit the road. Part of the detachment moved along the Irtysh River in 32 wooden planks and 27 boats, the rest rode horses. In early October, Bukholz detachments reached the Yamyshevsky Lakes and began to build a fortification. The construction of the fortification was not yet completed when the Dzungar scouts appeared. Soon a horde of nomads arrived. Jungars broke into the camp and stole all the horses. People Bukholtsa ousted the Dzungars from the fortress, but were in blockade. The number of besiegers more than three times exceeded the number of those who took refuge in the fortress, nevertheless, Bukholts refused to demand the Dzungars to leave the fortification.

        The siege lasted several months. The besieged did not receive help. A caravan of food sent from Tobolsk and 700 soldiers accompanying it were captured by the Dzungars. Enemies also intercepted the messengers, whom Bukholz sent to the Siberian governor asking for reinforcements. In the spring, only 700 people remained in the squad.

        After waiting for the ice to fall from the Irtysh, Bukholz’s detachment destroyed the fortification and moved down the river, and on May 4 or 5 on 1716, he landed at the mouth of Omi.
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 18 June 2016 08: 11
          0
          The construction of the Omsk fortress.

          Stopping at the mouth of Omi, the Bukholts people immediately set about building a small fortification. Bukholz appreciated the strategic importance of this place and sent a messenger to Gagarin with a request to be allowed to build a fortress here. Soon an order for the construction of the fortress was issued, and 1300 Cossacks and artisans arrived from Tobolsk.

          The first Omsk fortress was laid on the left bank of Omi, steeply rising from the river to 12-15 m. By the fall of 1716, the fortress was built and brought into a “deliberately defensive state”.

          The scientist Miller, who visited the Omsk fortress in 1734, wrote: “It stands on the southern bank of Omi, 50 fathoms from the banks of the Irtysh River, and consists of a regular quadrangular earthen rampart, which is small in all directions along 100 fathoms and in all corners bastions has. A moat was set up on the earthen rampart, and a moat was dug near the jail, and slings and grooves were set behind it. ”

          The fortress occupied a small territory (currently there is the regional library named after A.S. Pushkin and the square between the streets 10 years of October and Lermontovskaya). On one side she went to the steep bank of Omi, and on the other sides she was surrounded by a dry moat in 3 m deep. The walls of the fortress consisted of a low earthen rampart and hedge (vertically dug into the ground, pointed at the top of a log 3,5 m height).

          Four entrance gates led to the fortress, which were square towers made of logs and towering 10-14 m. In the upper part of one of them guns were installed. The bastions in the corners of the fortress were also equipped with artillery. A church, administrative buildings and barracks were built in the fortress.

          The garrison of the fortress consisted of 150 Cossacks and 200 soldiers, armed mainly with spears and sabers.

          A number of settlements grew around the fortress: Lugovskaya Sloboda, stretching along the left bank of Omi, from the fortress to the Irtysh. From Lugovskaya Sloboda there was a floating bridge to the right bank of Omi, where three more settlements were located - Gubina, Omskaya and Kurgan. The settlements also had fortifications: bastions and towers, armed with guns. In 1742, in the Omsk fortress there were more than a thousand inhabitants.

          The construction of serf lines in the south of Western Siberia.



          At the beginning of the XVIII century. several more fortresses were built on the right bank of the Irtysh: Yamyshevskaya (1717 g.), then Semipalatinsk and Ustkamenogorsk.

          Outposts were erected between the fortresses. Thus, the right bank of the Irtysh from r. Omi to the river. Ulba was assigned to Russia. The new line of fortifications was called Verkhne-Irtysh.

          The Irtyshskaya fortress line merged with the fortifications along the Ishimu River, which began at the Chernolutsk prison, went to the Bolsheretskaya fortress, Korkina Sloboda (Ishim) and then passed south of the modern city of Kurgan. This huge half-ring of fortresses went around the forest-steppe space between the rivers Irtysh and Ishim.

          In the 40's XVIII century decided to move the fortifications south to 100-200 versts. A new line was built from the Omsk fortress and went along the Kamyshlovsky bitter-salty lakes to the west through Ishim and Tobol to the tract Animal Head on the Orenburg line. The newly created system of fortifications was called Presnogorkovsky, or New.
          1. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 18 June 2016 08: 13
            0
            In the middle of the XVIII century. The Dzungar Khanate was weakened as a result of internal feudal feuds, the onset of the Manchu empire and the struggle of the Kazakh people against the devastating raids of the Dzungar feudal lords. In 30-40's XVIII century Kazakhs voluntarily accepted Russian citizenship. In 1758, Dzungaria was defeated by Chinese troops. But the situation on the southern border of Siberia remained alarming.

            HISTORY OF OMSK REGION

            FROM ANCIENT TIMES TO THE END OF THE XIX CENTURY

            http://www.omskcity.ru/spravochnaya/uchebnaya/222-history-of-omsk-oblast.html?sh
            owall = 1 & limitstart =
            1. wanderer_032
              wanderer_032 18 June 2016 08: 35
              -1
              The Kazakhs paid tribute to the Golden Horde, and after its collapse, they paid tribute to the Dzungarian khans. Also, the Dzungars did not disdain open robbery, raiding Russian and Kazakh settlements.

              Having come to Siberia, our ancestors managed to protect not only themselves and their settlements by building a network of fortifications and outposts, but also actively helped the Kazakhs in the fight against oppression and robbery of the Dzungars. And they also helped the Kazakh people to establish normal trade in the region.

              All this is recorded in history.

              And where is it written that the Dzungars were Russian subjects, if the Russian state itself suffered from their robberies and lawlessness, which they were engaged in?

              Dzhungars robbed not only Russian and Kazakh settlements, but also raided trade caravans that went to Russia and further to Europe from India, Persia and China, along the Irtysh or along the river itself.

              It is for this reason that both the tsarist Russian government and the Chinese government dealt with them in their day. And especially, as can be seen from the above, the Chinese authorities were very busy with the jungars. Because they were taken out by the Dzungarian lawlessness that was being created on this trade route. IMHO.
              1. CORNET
                CORNET 18 June 2016 09: 44
                -1
                Quote: Aposlya
                Quote: Simpsonian
                If it’s neighing like that, he’s carved himself, they write on birch bark with a runic letter, as on benches, but not on parchment (leather) ... Well, who writes to them in those places?


                It would be better not to be disgraced! They wrote on birch bark with "cuts and lines", not in runes. And the Slavs did not have runic writing.
                Here is a sample of Turkic runic writing:


                Maybe enough already .... I kind of agreed that the Ukrainians are the founders of the world ... (after the Chechens)))) Now again 25..Kazakhs are the founders of all civilization ...! Well ekarny bogeyman ... Yakuts are not enough for you!
                Here is the answer from all Russians in Russia!
              2. Aposlya
                Aposlya 18 June 2016 09: 49
                +1
                Quote: wanderer_032
                The Kazakhs paid tribute to the Golden Horde, and after its collapse, they paid tribute to the Dzungarian khans.


                The Kazakhs never paid tribute to the Golden Horde, as they themselves were this Golden Horde! smile
                Read the list of tribes of the Genghis Khan ulus at Rashid Ad Din, these are Naimans, Jalaira, Kiyay, Merkits, Kerey, Konyrat, Uysuni, etc. These are all Kazakh tribes actually ... wink
                The Dzungar khans were also not paid, since the very concept of KHAN was completely absent from the Dzungars - they had the title of leaders for Kontaykchi ...
                The fact that they were cut for 2 centuries is yes. As well as the fact that at first the Dzungars imposed domination over the Kazakh khans, but then it is known how it ended - there were no living dzhungars in the territory of the Kazakh Khanate and Mogulistan ...

                Quote: wanderer_032
                And where is it written that the Dzungars were Russian subjects, if the Russian state itself suffered from their robberies and lawlessness, which they were engaged in?

                Well, this is the same as in Afghanistan - during the day he is dekhkan, and at night a mujahid ... Kalmyks do you think where did they come from in Russia? These are the descendants of the Dzungars ...
            2. Monarchist
              Monarchist 20 June 2016 17: 37
              0
              Wanderer, thanks for the info. I will take advantage.
  • redcod
    redcod 17 June 2016 09: 55
    +1
    In Kazakhstan, the events in Aktobe are associated with the events of 2011. Then, too, it all began with the destruction of a group of Wahhabis near Aktobe, and ended in the December execution of oil workers of Zhanaozen in Mangyshlak.
  • Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 10: 29
    +1
    Quote: redcod
    announced, by right of the strong you conquered it. But our ancestors always lived there and herded their herds there. There we are not, but you are newcomers.

    OH mom, hold me seven. I really respect the Kazakhs, you are a very worthy people. But just don’t talk to me about the past, don’t stir it up.

    As a simple argument for you - you probably do not know that the Scythians are the ancestors of the Eastern Slavs? and anthropologically, and genetically, and even culturally? So, I remind you, the Scythians lived from Altai to Hungary back in those days when the Kazakh people as such were not there, and his ancestors had only just begun to think about their plans to advance to the Minusinsk depression.

    Quote: olena
    -Russian youth is quite infantile, physically much weaker and "fearfully-politically correct" ... -And the Kazakh is more physically prepared, trained and united ...
    This is a fact, like most modern Europeans everywhere. And one more thing - it was the Russian people who suffered the greatest demographic losses from all the horrors of the 20th century, other peoples of the former USSR were affected by them to a much lesser extent.

    Quote: redcod
    Then, too, it all began with the destruction of a group of Wahhabis near Aktobe, and ended in the December execution of the oil workers of Zhanaozen in Mangyshlak.
    No one says that Nazarbayev is soft and fluffy. But here is the question of choosing the lesser of two evils, choosing between stable management under the Nazar-bai clan, or turning into the Caliphate province according to the Syrian scenario.
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 18 June 2016 00: 28
      -1
      Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
      As a simple argument for you - you probably do not know that the Scythians are the ancestors of the Eastern Slavs? and anthropologically, and genetically, and even culturally? So, I remind you, the Scythians lived from Altai to Hungary back in those days when the Kazakh people as such were not there, and his ancestors had only just begun to think about their plans to advance to the Minusinsk depression.


      Have you really seen enough of Levashov’s campaign? Annals from antiquity to the 19th century associate the Scythians with the Turks, and not with the Slavs. The Slavs are already descendants of the Wends, whom the Avars (whom they also referred to the Scythians) conquered ...
      1. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 23 June 2016 22: 45
        0
        Quote: Aposlya
        Chronicles from antiquity to the 19 century associate the Scythians with the Turks

        Well, chronicles ... Something, for example, the Byzantines (and they understood the peoples) - very accurately. I am not talking about anthropology and archeology at all.

        Scythians - Türks? such Turks .... Here is an image of Scythians from a Scythian vessel (Gaymanova grave barrow). If these are not Caucasians and not typical Slavs, then I am a Negro.
    2. redcod
      redcod 20 June 2016 09: 44
      +2
      Read more and analyze.
      1. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 23 June 2016 23: 21
        0
        Something the image of a vessel showing anthropological type of Scythians did not fit. Repeatedly.
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 17 June 2016 12: 02
    -1
    And, if these people had not taken active steps, then within a very short time they would have been in the hands of the KNB.

    If yes, if only mushrooms grew in the mouth. Dry out - and the point.
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 17 June 2016 12: 12
    +1
    According to Kazakhstani departments, today the number of Salafis is estimated at 13-15 thousand.

    The whole division. In addition to these local ones, more may come. As well as in Libya, Egypt and Syria. The Middle East and Asia are actually one religious and cultural space. With all the consequences.

    Nobody looks at the documents there. And if something happens, the "sponsors" of the terrorist war can buy some of their pawns and real documents. Checking which will give nothing.

    For those who still do not know what a terrorist war is:



    This is no "color revolution". And even more so not a mess on religious grounds.
  • CORNET
    CORNET 17 June 2016 15: 02
    -1
    Future Baikonur ...! Then they already knew ....
    And we have a new ....
  • CORNET
    CORNET 17 June 2016 15: 14
    +1
    Nazarbayev .... Listened to you! It's creepy ...! Go away ... On a piece of paper (I almost fell asleep ..)
  • Aposlya
    Aposlya 18 June 2016 09: 55
    0
    [quote = Aposlya] [quote = Simpsonian] Continue to dishonor - in Russian "lines and cuts" this is a runic letter.
    On the skin zagoguliny write. [/ Quote]

    Here are the "cuts and lines" on a birch bark letter. Here, even an uninformed person understands that this is an alphabetic letter, and not runes.



    And here is the runic letter.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 18 June 2016 14: 34
      0
      [quote = Aposlya] [quote = Aposlya] [quote = Simpsonian] Continue to dishonor - in Russian "lines and cuts" this is a runic letter.
      On the skin zagoguliny write. [/ Quote]

      Here are the "cuts and lines" on a birch bark letter. Here, even an uninformed person understands that this is an alphabetic letter, and not runes.



      And here is the runic letter. [/ Quote]
      I see Kazakh ancient writing ... I saw a lot of them !! (even in Ukraine I saw such ones ... and in Chechnya ...)
      Well, it’s straightforward to see that the old Kazakh wrote ...! Russians generally sat in the Arctic and were afraid of the Kazakhs .. Therefore, the entire Ural ridge is Kazakh ...!
      And in place of Moscow, in general, there was the first yurt of the Kazakhs (lost ..) And in general, the yurt is very similar to the dome!
      I am wrong??? Kazakhs have discovered America, (they are almost alike .... and the Indians don’t want to work ..)))) We need to help the Kazakhs restore the historical truth! Nazarbayev to the Kremlin (Putin to the drilling rig to the Arctic ...)
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 18 June 2016 15: 46
        +1
        Quote: CORNET
        Well, it’s straightforward to see that the old Kazakh wrote ...! Russians generally sat in the Arctic and were afraid of the Kazakhs .. Therefore, the entire Ural ridge is Kazakh ...!
        And in place of Moscow, in general, there was the first yurt of the Kazakhs (lost ..) And in general, the yurt is very similar to the dome!
        I am wrong??? Kazakhs have discovered America, (they are almost alike .... and the Indians don’t want to work ..)))) We need to help the Kazakhs restore the historical truth! Nazarbayev to the Kremlin (Putin to the drilling rig to the Arctic ...)


        Ay-ay! We’ll have a better hangover! laughing
  • Lyubopyatov
    Lyubopyatov 19 June 2016 01: 42
    0
    I would not say that Nazarbayev stayed too long. But what he played with is undoubtedly. With the latinization of the alphabet, with architectural wonders in Astana, existing between the inferiority complex and delusions of Kazakhstani greatness. Although the ally of Kazakhstan is such that it forced Russia to curtail in Baikonur. Deprivation is nothing smaller than Ukrainian. The shorter the leash, the sincere ally.