Military Review

How to kill the Russian space program. Part of 2

115
As promised, we continue the subject of KBXA.

How to kill the Russian space program. Part of 1.

How to kill the Russian space program. Part of 2


After reading the comments, I want to note that, of course, it is excellent, that the engines for Proton are assembled and tested in Perm. Given that in the 2025 year, the "Protons" will be abandoned, it is worth watching this plant. Just in case.

With regards to some questions. They were asked: what is the "Angara", what is the "Union", if "Proton"? Given that the RD0124 is just the second step of the Angara and the third step of the Soyuz-2 and Soyuz-STB LV. And РД0110р is the Soyuz-2.1.v RN, which was first launched in 2013 from Plesetsk.

Plus bench tests RD 0126, 0124A (And - this is also the "Angara" just), 0146, 0146D, 1025A and a bunch of others. Not only testing, but also fine-tuning, the benefit of R & D - here it is, in 25 km from the test site.

And the landfill. This is not a concrete chamber in the basement of the case. This is in itself another factory. The territory of 4 is at 4 kilometer. With a bunch of stands for various tests.

And, dear, I am spreading all this absolutely not to entertain my self-esteem. But because people who can, and most importantly, want to build engines for rockets, are already shouting that the plant is being killed by "effective" ones. And I would not want to. After all, it is useful, and R & D, and the plant, and the test site ...

But - we continue from the place where we finished yesterday.

About debt and money

I tell about the shop. All of these commissions, of course, great. But they do not particularly travel shops. And not because it is secret, but because God forbid, to see what is happening there.

Seriously, there are no defenses. The tool is not attorney and not certified. According to sanitary standards and requirements, it is possible to bring a person suffering from these norms to a heart attack.

Accordingly, the attitude from the inside is. This is no money, but it would also be Sinyachili. One plus ... Although it happens differently with drunkenness, for he who seeks will always find.

Having come to power, the new Mr. Director announced a new direction: get out of debt. With all respect to Rachuk, he, in spite of the decreasing number of orders in those years, managed to take advance payments for future work and to somehow maintain salaries at the proper level. And to be precise, the level of 2013 of the year, when there was a good recovery.

Then the fall began. At first the plant screwed up several dozen nozzles. Not by the curvature of the hands, by the way, but simply without testing and not having approved it properly, they began to use new plasma welding for seams. Welding let down, the cameras began to swell. There was a huge loss of hundreds of millions.

As a result, Rachuk scored 2 billion debts. True, we still owed a billion. And having come to power, Kamyshev said that the main task is to go to zero. The idea is clear, the idea is sober. But the execution ...

What chose the new team, which way. This is a massive reduction. And not only people, but also all kinds of costs.

Now we have a reduction. 400 is a man from 2600. And already rumors that by November they will cut another 600. Who will stay? Young people do not need to reduce, it runs as soon as it finds a higher salary. And this can easily be done in our city.

Brad, when an engineer who has learned 5 for years and has gained work experience, leaves because he has a salary like a cashier in a supermarket. And of course, they leave.

And here's the alignment. Young, 30 years old, gone. No matter where. Stay grandfather. Pre-pensioner or retiree. Grandfather will die. Yes, he will die, nobody will retire. We have one occupational disease in IC - oncology. Heptyl is a carcinogen. And from the body is not displayed. So grandfather will die. And who will replace him? Here is the question ...

And the heads of departments did not have a single lever to support young and promising people. And promising anyone who has worked more than 3 years. No salary, no bonus, no prospect. And go.

We have out of the unit for the year 5 young gone. From 11. Jobs are hanging, but who will go? In which madhouse on 14 thousands of young specialist search?

And in winter, the task was set: to develop a new staffing table, taking into account reductions. The money will be released, respectively, the salary can be raised. The amount of work will remain the same, but it seems possible to receive it by making large volumes. Fine.

But here a funny thing happened. It’s gone from one department, not mine, I don’t have so much, I don’t know, fortunately or unhappily, as many as 11 people. "Freed" about 150 thousand rubles. Per month. It is logical that the head went to settle the issue of new salaries for the rest. People need to know how much they will receive, working for themselves and for the guy who will never come.

And receives a drop dead answer from the clever-head of the department of labor and wages to your question. 50 thousands of scatter on their own, and I will find 100 where to put it. Some of the bosses bargained, someone gave up without a fight. But in this way they lit up all without exception.

That's right, the wage fund of the enterprise is limited. And all these "effective" need to contain. And from somewhere to take their considerable salaries and bonuses. Therefore, we got what, a famous figure, and they ...

I do not invent it at all. He himself was a participant in such bargaining. Brad, of course. Healthy and intelligent men bargain for pennies for themselves and their subordinates. Humiliating.

Social life

Died in principle. Yes, the union there bolbochet something, some reports do. But from what was before, there was nothing left. Only money is charged for sporting events. There are pennies, 2,5 million per year. However, who saw this competition? Yes, no one. The last thing I watched was billiards. But then again, with the old manual still. Three years ago.

Social programs either. Yes there, take the Day of Cosmonautics. This year 55 years was a significant date. We have a good assembly hall, we always gathered people, a concert was rolled up, even Prigogine (director of the IC. - RS) himself sang. Even prizes were sometimes given.

And this year? Mr. Kamyshev rents (I don’t know for what kind of money) the concert hall of the Voronezh State University, invites the soloists of the philharmonic society, local variety artists. And this event invites the elect. Engineers, engineers, hard workers and other mobile - go, work.

Everything that we had on 65 years of our cosmonautics, - borders were painted. And on a bulletin board a little piece of paper was hung on a printed printer. Like, congratulations. Everything.

And just two years ago, in our assembly hall, I talked and greeted with hand Bogorodsky. This is one of the few survivors who participated in the launch of Gagarin from KBKHA. He tested the engines and was present there at Baikonur. And everyone could.

Whether any of the veterans at this event, I do not know. We were first instructed to invite two people from each unit, then they canceled the next day.

About frames

It’s no secret for you that we have a volatile faculty in the Polytechnic Institute (IMAT - Institute of Mechanical Engineering and aviation technicians. - R.S.). There is a department of rocket engines. So, the graduates of this department were taken without limitations all their lives. Shoved into departments and bureaus, if that - there is a stock, you can always reprofile. There were no problems with personnel at all.

The youth came, studied, retrained, someone left, of course. But anyway, the stream went.

This year, Mr. Kamyshev quarreled with the Polytechnic and refused to take target men. I do not need your LPD-shniki, I will take shots from VSU. Can you imagine idiocy? So I can not imagine. But imagine who prepares the VSU. It is interesting, of course, as there are historians, biologists, mathematicians, geographers and other humanities scholars will replace the reactive engineers, hydraulics and other techies. But this is not just nonsense, it is wrecking.

And how many. On the 2016 year, the budget laid down to take 12 (twelve, Karl!) Young professionals. And before hundreds came, not only from the Voronezh Polytechnic.

No, of course, if someone from the new team has kids there at the exit to VSU, then it’s clear where the wind is coming from.

To complain, you say? And to whom? Rogozin? Yes of course. And then he does not know, you might think. His son is married to a daughter of Gurin, the current head of IC. Anya Gurina-Rogozin, worked in the department of chemists. So everything is fine there. Know what you need. And as it should.

About harm

It used to be such a thing. And it provided for additional pay, vacation, treatment, special food, preferential retirement experience. Now it is not. There is a special assessment of working conditions. From 2015 year. There are expert organizations that are engaged in this assessment. And for good money they have to establish the presence or absence of factors affecting the health of workers.

And we are not lucky, they say. In our company there are no conditions under which the same heptyl exceeded the norm in the 5 MAC. There is one MPC on heptyl - you already have to catch a gas mask on your head and put it on and tear out of there as quickly as possible. And then 5 ... Heptyl is safe, what else can I say ... Norma.

And what is the norm here, when after starting you exit - the whole territory is in bird droppings? Heptyl, if you grab it in a small dose, then your friend’s toilet is for half a day. Well, and the bird - she is not aware that we have tests. Obviously, not everything burns down, a cloud of this kind is formed above the polygon. That's who was next, he and ... well, I understood. And there and the trees on the gardens in black holes and foliage shed all 50 years gardeners complain.

But now at least trials are rare. Once a month. And in those years, and two starts a week happened.

One is comforted: "Proton" as a khan carrier rocket. The rocket is good, but too dirty.

Not to be a simple critic. If in my opinion, the way out could be found in another. We have a huge production base. One of the most powerful in the region. Maybe only, probably, the mechanical plant can be compared, but we are doing one thing with them, fellow soldiers, so to speak. And the aircraft factory.

The idea is not only mine, but many sober-minded people, that it is necessary to deal not only with the loss of personnel, the loss of high-class specialists, but the need to load production. I understand that a crisis, a crisis all over the world, it is difficult to find customers for our products. In fact, demand has fallen, especially on the "Protons" after all the incidents. But "Soyuz" something has not been canceled. Only we fly on the ISS, and whatever the Americans say when they fly, that question is still. And we fly.

Need to do conversion. And not gas and electric stoves. We have colossal minds, we have a colossal base, we can make orders for any industry, especially since our government says and subsidizes import substitution.

Our oilmen and gas workers howl because almost all valves are foreign. And we can. Our fittings from the oil just that the size is different. Pumps! Imported pumps on wells. And we can. And even nothing new needs to be developed, everything in R & D is still with 90's in the drawings. We can.

But the "effective" can not. They can not even afford the idea of ​​going beyond the scope of what was hammered into their heads. I don’t even know what courses and seminars. Because it is really obgaditsya at the start. Because all this is beyond the scope of standard works. And therefore we are engaged only in a series. And a series, I apologize ... Because there are fewer launches.

We are ready to practically stamp everything you need with our quality day and night. As in Soviet times, in three shifts when the plant plowed. Would need us.

Afterword. Very short. Rogozin's words on the topic of our lagging behind the United States have a certain logic. But these are just words. In fact, everything can be even more sad. Just six months ago, we made a fuss about Omsktransmash, where we began to lay off workers and get ready for the bankruptcy of the plant. It is good that the efforts of many media outlets solved the problem in a positive way.

A situation like the one that took shape at KBXA is not unique. This raises a single question: can we afford to today so calmly throw away those remnants of the mighty industry of the USSR that we miraculously managed to save?
Author:
115 comments
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  1. Dex
    Dex 7 June 2016 06: 19
    +10
    I want to ask the author a question: why in the previous article do you contrast the KBHA and the Khrunichev Center. As recently as 11 years old, you yourself have been a branch. (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=22) As well as Proton-PM. Now, alas, the center is restructuring its structure. If earlier it was planned to carry out a full cycle of services for the development, testing, implementation, installation, launch, maintenance of launch vehicles and satellites, as well as related products; now it’s decided to focus only on the delivery of the payload into orbit and the development of launch vehicles. Plus, the transfer of production from Moscow to other places (Omsk, Kovrov). Most likely, they are now cutting you down and reforming (as always, through one place), but they will not bankrupt. By the way, did you know that the Ust-Katavsky Carriage Works named after S.M. Kirov "in this process chain, only the manufacture of containers is destined. Tara, Karl !!! which then, according to the plan of effective managers, should be transported throughout Russia ...
    1. Simpsonian
      Simpsonian 7 June 2016 08: 29
      0
      Works. Serving corridor lackeys (and others) in an efficient hotel and "tourist business".
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 7 June 2016 15: 24
        +1
        minus the lost - rocket science and astronautics do not belong to the "service sector"!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 7 June 2016 09: 39
      +15
      There is no reason not to believe the author in the main thing. Here even the facts stated by him in trifles and details cannot be taken out of my head. Again, some kind of absolute helplessness of entire teams of enterprises in the strategic industry looms. But what about the Facebook joker Rogozin, or Putin's Popular Front - a fighter for justice, which has its own website for "complaints and suggestions"? That is the same!
      If you listen to our economists, deputies and lawyers, they turn their heads over. Maybe we are specially made "unconscious field" for manipulation? How does the Russian state system differ from the Western ones? And if nothing, then what are the contradictions and mutual propaganda incinerating each other? Will you tell the truth? But everyone has their own truth.
      1. siberalt
        siberalt 7 June 2016 09: 54
        +12
        Let's look at some of the "bells" coming from the West and from our capitalist liberals. They all boil down to the fact that Russia is “straightening out” of the rules they have established for the liquidation of the Russian world. Hence the sanctions, the deliberate build-up of militarization around our borders, and the same calls of Kudrin and his company to somehow catch hold of "European values" and move in a single impulse, at least without their place, and somewhere in the luggage compartment or even worse. What does it say. The fact that Russia does not fit into European standards, primarily due to its historically formed mentality. And if so, then why torment your people and force them into molds that are not standard for them? It is clear that we desperately need reforms. A quarter of a century, by someone else's standards, is not ours. The “manual” work of the President is important, but it is not a development strategy. Systemic reform is needed. And it can only begin with a constitutional one. The rest is "blah blah show". am The system must be changed!
        1. Aryan
          Aryan 7 June 2016 10: 30
          .
          If the author has such a pain for the Russian space, then where does he say what he does to correct the situation he describes? Why doesn't he have anything about this? Why does he consider it necessary to write on topvar, and not the same Rogozin for example? The fact of the matter is that he just shouldn’t have it otherwise he would have proudly declared His movements. The author’s goal is not the problem of space engineering, but your brains
          Defense issues aren’t solved, don’t tell my slippers
          The conclusion is obvious ... Roman’s goal, by the last name of the Author, is to throw more known substance on the fan, diluting it with several well-known and respected names to create credibility and creating a feeling of belonging to those who read these dull articles in significant events of our Age.

          A lot of things have spread in the network of "officer's daughters", they are already getting to the Military Review.
          That's why this SEREAL is so dull and it doesn't matter how much SEREI will be in it.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 7 June 2016 10: 42
            +9
            Quote: Aryan
            A lot of things have spread in the network of "officer's daughters", they are already getting to the Military Review.

            Are you talking about Skomorokhov so? Well damn... fool
          2. Gogia
            Gogia 7 June 2016 15: 37
            +1
            Skomorokhov Roman? And who is it that gets it all ???? Now, if you are so smart, take the article yourself, sign the factory’s employees a subscription list and go to Rogozin !!! Better yet, to Putin!
          3. Sergey777
            Sergey777 7 June 2016 17: 24
            +3
            In vain you are so respected. Do you think the leadership is not aware of what is happening? Like, we have a good king, but here is the boyars! wink I now think everything in everything is aware of everything, but either their hands do not reach, or such is their plan. Why do such plans do at the top, I honestly do not know wink As said above, you need to change the system, but how? Again, the revolution, I do not agree, it painfully many people in the 20th century put on all wars
          4. Altona
            Altona 7 June 2016 22: 09
            +3
            Quote: Aryan
            If the author has such a pain for the Russian space, then where does he say what he does to correct the situation he describes? Why doesn't he have anything about this? Why does he consider it necessary to write on topvar, and not the same Rogozin for example?

            -----------------------
            The author wrote an article on the site, specially for this he visited the plant about asking people. As a journalist, he revealed the problem. Next up is the work of those who lead the industry.
          5. dla94
            dla94 9 June 2016 18: 12
            +2
            The author truthfully described the real situation. He cited the facts.
            But what is the purpose of your post filled only with demagogy?
            The conclusion is obvious.
            To offend the author.
            And yes, I'm one of those who quit.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. siberalt
          siberalt 7 June 2016 10: 35
          +2
          Again, a full-time minus player got wound up. It seems the victim of the exam laughing It is excusable.
          1. Genry
            Genry 7 June 2016 12: 17
            +2
            In my time, your "EGE" was not, but I put the minuses and pluses, without any begging for gratitude or forgiveness.
            Sybralte your pluses. Maybe you will live easier.

            If I get a hundred-thousand minuses - on the drum. I am an asocial type and someone else's (non) approval does not interest me.
        4. Val roman
          Val roman 9 June 2016 07: 41
          0
          The system must be changed! Here are the keywords of the previous author. And it’s not necessary to come up with some kind of new one. Often new is well forgotten old. The current leadership, itself, as a rocket stage, has worked out its own and must fall off so as not to interfere with the next stage. In general, the leadership is rotten, and everywhere. The new, Western ideology contributes to this in every way. Here, without raising a glass of champagne or anything else, to remember I.V.S. not enough. There and then everything was debugged. The Irkutsk Aviation Plant was prudently laid back in the 30 years. To this day, he is one of the flagships of Russian high technology. there are hundreds of such examples !!
          Something displayed here: infofacts24.com/power-but-not-as-an-instrument-of-oppression/power-leaders
          hips-guiders / page-2 / articles.html
      2. Oleg_84
        Oleg_84 8 June 2016 02: 42
        0
        Everything is banal simple = unions - no !!! if there is something on paper ...

        The same picture happened and is happening with Svyaznoy, there was a feeling that the attitude of the top management and the bonus system was revenge / order of competitors / order of future owners / stupidity of inexperienced, etc. = the result of which was high staff turnover and low efficiency. Earlier profitable points were closed due to the fact that experienced staff left, plans were raised to a level where neither point nor staff could physically give such a result, and failure to fulfill the plan is minus half the bonus and vice versa, and "zeros" cannot keep the point even at low profitability ... as a result, the turnover and profit of the company decreased, according to statistics, the efficiency of sellers is high, zero points are closed, but with a decrease in outlets by half = profit is also reduced, and since part of the load that did not really bring profit, such as payments, was transferred for the remaining points, which reduced the efficiency of sales managers at the remaining points, since they had to serve those who bring little profit ...

        By the way, the creation of trade unions would have made everything banal = yes it could have been because in Europe trade unions are introducing countries into stadia - but then you need to educate young people and support this education that the country's interests are more important than clothes and crimson pants.
    5. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 7 June 2016 12: 55
      +3
      But the "effective" ones cannot. They can’t even allow themselves to think about going beyond what has been hammered into their heads, I don’t know at what courses and seminars. Because they really get off at the start. Because all this goes beyond the standard work. Here the term - "the era of stalls" has already jumped. I still remember the concept that existed during my training - "The manager should not understand the subject of his production" So we have what we have. And "manual control" by Putin is not a panacea.
      Quote: Dex
      in this process chain, only the manufacture of containers is generally destined. Tara, Karl !!! which then, according to the plan of effective managers, should be transported throughout Russia ...

      that's all the "efficiency" in all its glory. Cut a penny production to add hundreds of times more to overhead costs. And this is in the material (clearly visible) sphere. Deeper connections, in the form of the sovereignty of the economy, the movement of funds thrown into production in the region (stimulation of demand for goods and services), "they" simply do not see (or do not want, for lack of instant returns). And this is in the strategic industry.
    6. Gogia
      Gogia 7 June 2016 15: 32
      +1
      We have it everywhere! It is a pity that then ordinary people will be responsible for this ....
    7. bazalt16
      bazalt16 12 June 2016 22: 58
      0
      News in topic: The United Rocket and Space Corporation, as well as a number of institutes and enterprises of the space and rocket industry are excluded from the strategic enterprises of the country. The corresponding decree of the president is published on the official Internet portal of legal information.

      According to the decree, the Research Center. Keldysh (Moscow), Research and Testing Center of the Rocket and Space Industry (Peresvet), Center for Operation of Ground-Based Space Infrastructure Facilities (Moscow), State Rocket Center. Makeeva (Miass), Strategic Control Points Corporation (Moscow) and the United Rocket and Space Corporation (Moscow).
  2. Alex66
    Alex66 7 June 2016 06: 50
    +8
    So everything is fine there. Know what is needed. And as it should.
    Well, since everyone knows and continues to bring down the economy, it means that someone needs it and with the current course of the government Russia will not rise to its full height. It is strange that workers and engineers do not go on strike, have forgotten how to see, and yet this seems to be the only step to salvation.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 7 June 2016 07: 06
    +14
    Yes, the union is talking about something there, it is making some reports. But nothing was left of what was before. Only money is written off for sporting events.... Yes, yes .. we have almost the same ... On the balls, on the form ... type the gym is rented ... Let's go .. but it’s not possible to do there .. for the whole city is engaged there .. don’t push around .. Let's go in a private room .. contacted the union for compensation, said no fix .. for your go ..
  4. demos1111
    demos1111 7 June 2016 07: 13
    +17
    Yes, tough. These two articles are a direct challenge to a duel or something. Either it is necessary to justify this effective, just as publicly, or it is time for people in the same "costumes" to apply volitional decisions.
  5. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 7 June 2016 07: 21
    +2
    I fully understand the author, everyone wants a decent salary for their work. But sometimes it seems that ROSKOSMOS is an ideal organization for cutting budget funds. When for decades, worked products show high accident rate, it’s hard to explain by the constant presence of Uncle Vasya the switchman. ocean expedition to Phobos! The cost of the Phobos-Soil project is about 5 billion rubles. The cost of the spacecraft itself amounted to 1 billion 200 million rubles. And at the same time, Mr. Popovkin claims the novelty of the Phobos-Grunt spacecraft, taking into account the fact that we have not done anything for twenty years, even over 90 percent. And we understand that this is a risk, but we also understand another thing: if we do not launch it this year, then in 2013 it will be useless to launch this device, and if we begin to make new ones, we will leave for 2016 and beyond. Is that why comments came about? We conducted a number of new tests of this device. We have some stock of spare parts, some parts were made in two, in triplicate. And with the help of these programs we just choose what needs to be changed on the ground. I say again, this is a very risky business, but as an engineer working all my life in this area, I will say that this is a justified risk, we understand what we are taking. Unfortunately, it is impossible to do otherwise; this is a complicated technique.

    It’s a beautiful statement: only -5 rubles are a little embarrassing. That is, they were almost consciously lowered to the bottom of the ocean, because it is not clear where the money actually went. And no one believed in the success of the expedition, because they understood that it wouldn’t reach anyway ???
    1. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 7 June 2016 22: 18
      +1
      But what about the hypothesis? They sawed the loot, launched a large-sized layout. And they knew very well (because they had planed) that they would not fly further than the Pacific Ocean. And then you can blame even on amers (supposedly they turned on the radar when our satellite flew!) At least on Uncle Vasya!
  6. 31rus2
    31rus2 7 June 2016 07: 23
    +14
    Dear, this is serious government policy, that is, its complete absence, you can write a lot, only gentlemen will write off everything for sanctions, ore time, the only right decision, etc. I don’t call for anything, but our very Russia's biggest problem is power
    1. sherp2015
      sherp2015 7 June 2016 09: 16
      +8
      Quote: 31rus2
      . I do not call for anything, but our biggest problem in Russia is power

      Quote: Blondy
      After Rogozin's statement that we will never catch up with the States, he has nothing to do in his current position, with such "goal-setting" as constantly looking in the back of mattress toppers.

      Quote: Zomanus
      we have the same story with Radiozavod.
      At first, people without ZP were held for six months.
      Then, when they began to go to rallies, they began to solve the problem.
      But in fact, the plant was made a branch, they will reorganize.
      Only now you will not return people ...

      Quote: aba
      This is a clear and undisguised destruction of the production base, and not only in the space industry. And this is a clear sabotage in favor of the US and the EU.

      Quote: Riv
      One correct word sounded: "Wrecking" ...

      Quote: NOTaFED
      We need a revolutionary purge of the "effective" ones, they themselves will not leave.


      I would not want more revolutions ...
      However, the enemies settled in the center
    2. Basarev
      Basarev 7 June 2016 10: 35
      +3
      Does the authorities even care about what is happening inside the country? In fact, the people in Russia face to face not only with personal, but also with public and state problems.
      1. Genry
        Genry 7 June 2016 12: 00
        -3
        You mixed all the "authorities" into one pile and water it ... Accordingly, you (the power of the people) are in this pile too.
        You yourself have organized a "madhouse" and are trying to impose your views on others.
        It is necessary to soberly assess the situation. The country is under the external control of the constitution, finance and economics are managed through the IMF-Fed.
        How to act?
        We watch Fedorov (hard and unpleasant truth-womb) and Starikov. The 5th column does not like them very much and is trying to create a fashionable trend that "they are fools and we do not need the Maidan." But they are not talking about the Maidan, but about the power of the people to correct constitutional injustice.
  7. Blondy
    Blondy 7 June 2016 07: 25
    +19
    In general, in my opinion, the space program is being killed higher. After Rogozin's statement that we will never catch up with the States, he has nothing to do in his current position, with such "goal-setting" as constantly looking in the back of mattress toppers.
    1. Forever so
      Forever so 7 June 2016 08: 56
      +10
      You are right, the impression is that Rogozin, Arkasha Dvorkovich bit.
    2. tegezen
      tegezen 7 June 2016 08: 56
      -9
      And where did Rogozin say that? Or lies for a red word?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 7 June 2016 09: 09
        +9
        Quote: tegezen
        And where did Rogozin say that? Or lies for a red word?

        He told reporters. Then, however, they corrected his tie.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 7 June 2016 10: 07
          +1
          And it turned out that 100 was right on everything - we are significantly behind them.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 7 June 2016 10: 16
            +5
            Quote: Vadim237
            And it turned out that 100 was right on everything - we are significantly behind them.

            Some do not believe it. Jammed on the RD-180, without which the mattresses supposedly can not fly into space.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 7 June 2016 13: 23
              0
              Moreover, RD 180 was created from RD 170 just by order of the USA - NPO Energomash won a competition for the creation of engines.
  8. Zomanus
    Zomanus 7 June 2016 07: 31
    +5
    Well, we have the same story with Radiozavod.
    At first, people without ZP were held for six months.
    Then, when they began to go to rallies, they began to solve the problem.
    But in fact, the plant was made a branch, they will reorganize.
    Only now you will not return people ...
  9. aba
    aba 7 June 2016 07: 32
    +7
    You read and understand that they will ruin them, and the guilty will either not be found or will not be searched for! Otherwise they will find "effective" ones in the face of the past leadership.
    This is a clear and undisguised destruction of the production base, and not only in the space industry. And this is a clear sabotage in favor of the US and the EU.
  10. Riv
    Riv 7 June 2016 08: 04
    +10
    One correct word sounded: "Wrecking" ...
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 7 June 2016 10: 13
      +11
      Quote: Riv
      One correct word sounded: "Sabotage".

      This is just diagnosis. But there will be no conclusions, for it was declared by a certain GDP that "we are not the 37th year".
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 7 June 2016 10: 16
        -4
        Quote: V.ic
        Quote: Riv
        One correct word sounded: "Sabotage".

        This is just diagnosis. But there will be no conclusions, for it was declared by a certain GDP that "we are not the 37th year".

        - right .. the year we have today is 2016
        - but don’t remind me, I .. forgot what
        - where did such Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky go? And without any, mind you, 37 year request
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 7 June 2016 10: 26
          +9
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          where did such Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky go

          Hodor stinks in America, and birch - the devil only knows. I'm not sure if he's dead at all. Nobody opened the corpse, and nobody saw it. And his three wives at the "funeral" smiled sweetly.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 7 June 2016 10: 31
            -1
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Hodor stinks in America, and Birch - the devil knows him. I'm not sure at all that he is dead

            - but not in the Russian Federation and not at the helm, So? Like a certain Gusinsky, however .. and Friedman yes
            - three of the "seven bankers", am I not hurt?

            Quote: Mordvin 3
            his three wives smiled sweetly at the "funeral"

            - so polites oblige .. England, what to do laughing
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 7 June 2016 10: 48
              +5
              Gusinsky in Israel, and is not going to return. He promised to put a television in each camera, and did not. Threw the lads. So they remember and wait for him in Sailor's silence. laughing negative
        2. opus
          opus 7 June 2016 12: 02
          +5
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          - where did such Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky go? And without any, mind you, 37 year

          Khodorkovsky:

          On December 22 of 2004 of the year Rosneft, at the expense of borrowed funds, acquired Baikalfinansgroup (the year 2004 was founded), which won the auction three days earlier for the purchase of Yuganskneftegaz, previously owned by Yukos.

          Bottom line: Menatep’s financial conflict with Rosneft has been settled. This year, companies said they had a settlement. Nevertheless, the decisions of the ECHR and the Hague Arbitration suggest that Russia should pay about $ 52 billion to former Yukos shareholders
          Russia, not sechin. THAT WE ARE WE

          MEET ON LEISURE: the infamous decree of 28 of May 2007 of the year No.333 (FRADKOV-PUTIN)

          And so everything is normal:
          1. One and a half years has gone from a statesman to the highest paid top manager of the country 2014 picture

          2. Rosneft’s president Igor Sechin (No. 1 in the Forbes ranking of the most expensive Russian top managers, total compensation for the year is $ 50 million by 2014) increased its stake in the state capital of the state-owned company from 0,0849% to 0,1273%, the press said -The service of Rosneft for a year and a half has gone from a statesman to the highest paid top manager in the country. How does a former official cope with a new job? →
          (2014: Sechin acquired about 4,49 million shares of Rosneft. Based on the current price of the company's securities - 231,69 rubles, according to 17: 36, the package costs a little more than 1 billion rubles.) Acquired in 2013, in 2015 it seems to be the same

          Shares of Rosneft were also acquired by several other top managers of the oil company.

          Abramovich VS Berezovsky:

          Berezovsky: After the verdict was announced, Berezovsky told reporters that his faith in British justice was undermined. 23 March 2013 years Berezovsky was found dead in his mansion in the UK

          Abramovich: Capital Evraz (31%), Channel One (24%), real estate. Together with Evraz partner Alexander Abramov (No. 24) owns 5,87% of the shares of Norilsk Nickel.
          2005 deal received $ 13 billion from the sale of Gazprom's 73% stake in Sibneft.

          ------------------------------
          I have a question: WHAT HAS CHANGED AFTER YOUR "1937"?
          Is Sechin a more efficient manager than Khodorkovsky? Well, not funny.

          Abramovich (Father Arkady (Aron) Nakhimovich Abramovich) is a greater patriot of Russia than Yu.Abramovich Berezovsky? Not funny either.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 7 June 2016 20: 33
            -1
            Quote: opus
            I have a question: WHAT HAS CHANGED AFTER YOUR "1937"?
            Is Sechin a more efficient manager than Khodorkovsky? Well not funny

            - absolutely. But he, fortunately, has no idea to sell strategic assets "outside". Unlike Khodorkovsky wink

            Quote: opus
            Abramovich (Father Arkady (Aron) Nakhimovich Abramovich) is a greater patriot of Russia than Yu.Abramovich Berezovsky? Not funny as well

            - the first son of a dog is more controlled by the ruling now ... say, a group than the second. Accordingly, less likely to get from him .. any unpleasant surprises. Do you need such surprises? I personally - absolutely do not need.

            Quote: opus
            The ECHR and the Hague Arbitration suggest that Russia should pay about $ 52 billion to former Yukos shareholders
            Russia, not Sechin. THAT IS WE

            - as I recall, the prospects for this payment .. are extremely foggy. Am I mistaken?

            Like this. And there is no perfection in this world sad
            1. opus
              opus 7 June 2016 22: 15
              +2
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              But he, fortunately, has no idea to sell strategic assets "outside". Unlike Khodorkovsky

              Roman ... and where is such confidence?
              How much did Penkovsky believe?
              And this (pooh) Albert Koch, and this dog (last) from the anti-doping committee (what the Air Force gave the interview)?
              "Money spoils a person", and even more so, children / wives, mistresses, etc. of a "person".
              Here (topvar) everyone is sure that Gorbachev and Yeltsin were CIA agents !!!!
              Politburo members / Central Committee agents?
              Well, I don’t know. OK, then the KGB did what
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              - the first son of a dog is more controlled by the current ruling .. say, the group than the second

              about ss-i +++
              about controlled ...
              Everyone was controlled by Stalin (he kept it), the result?
              Poisoned?
              And then EVERYTHING (all com. Mold) grabbed during the collapse of the USSR (or collapsed -hz)
              so then! with THOM control ..
              and schA? Yuri Mikhalych Luzhkov with his wife? happily ever after in Switzerland
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              ? I personally - absolutely do not need.

              I absolutely do not care who the boyar is over us slaves in Russia: Khodorkovsky or Sechin (so for interest in aggressive driving in Moscow, check out the full name: Maliki, Abduvahob Madzhidov, Ruslana Shamsuarov and other "golden youth")
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              Do you need such surprises?

              I don’t remember that the billionaire oligarchs would flee from the USA, Germany, England, and so on in Russia (I’m not talking about the USSR), the Departier doesn’t count.
              With billions stolen or earned "back-breaking labor" ..
              I also don’t remember that in the USSR they would have fled from there: dancers, singers of ballerinas and ballerinas, gymnasts and other athletes, I don’t remember that the former foreign ministers (Department of State) from the USA (or other countries except the former USSR) moved to Permanent residence in the Russian Federation. I know Kozyrev


              in my opinion there is some kind of system error? Not?
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              as I recall, the prospects for this payment .. are extremely vague. Am I mistaken?

              50% I think it will unfasten (at our expense)
              audit cost of the confiscated 18-25 billion $.
              Otherwise, there will be problems
        3. V.ic
          V.ic 7 June 2016 20: 19
          0
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          where did such Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky go?

          Khodorkovsky is still "more alive than all living things", for some reason / there is no money in the budget for hiring a new Ramon Mercader, well, oligarchs don’t give money for this project! /, And Berezovsky was not "tied in a scarf" by the FSB. Reminded?
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 7 June 2016 20: 38
            -1
            Quote: V.ic
            Khodorkovsky is still "more alive than all living things", for some reason / there is no money in the budget for hiring a new Ramon Mercader, well, oligarchs don’t give money for this project! /, And Berezovsky was not "tied in a scarf" by the FSB. Reminded?

            Yes, in general, I did not forget, to be honest ..

            - Berezovsky is dead and, therefore, incapable of action. IMHO this is good. Who "tied a scarf" for him there, while this is the ninth case

            - Khodorkovsky is "pushed in", and, apart from small dirty tricks, is also not capable of anything. I think that, if necessary, the money "for a scarf" would be found for him.

            Here is such a picture, IMHO yes
      2. Genry
        Genry 7 June 2016 12: 11
        -1
        Quote: V.ic
        But there will be no conclusions, for it was declared by a certain GDP that “we are not in the 37th year”.

        If you correctly tried to understand Putin, you would have taken this phrase as a hint. Otherwise, why remember.
        The elite slowly, reluctantly, begins to crawl out of the offshore. Who does not crawl, he will not be the 37th year.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 7 June 2016 17: 06
          0
          Quote: Genry
          The elite slowly, reluctantly, begins to crawl out of the offshore. Who does not crawl, he will not be the 37th year.

          Trotsky's skull (clickable)Trotsky's skull (clickable)


          Trotsky's turtle is a dummy, and the ice ax is genuine. It is possible that a couple of tools from the same series still lie in the Lubyanka warehouse. And if not, then you can make new ones - tea is not rocket technology or some other high tech.
        2. opus
          opus 7 June 2016 22: 19
          +5
          Quote: Genry
          Who does not crawl, he will not be the 37 year.

          naive.
          How is Vasilyeva and

          Paste in the Kolyma?
          What about the "prosecutor's casino"

          ?
          what is there?

          Chaika: "Money and valuables have not been confiscated, no corrupt assets have been found, objectively there is nothing," he also denied reports of high casino incomes, 85% of which went to bribes to prosecutors. "We summed up this money, it turned out about 5 billion rubles. For a year and a half - a lot of money! Where are they? The investigation did not find them, nor did they find accounts, securities, luxury goods, real estate - nothing, "he said. Attorney General.
          According to investigators, gambling revenues ranged from $ 5 million to $ 10 million per month. For the non-interference of prosecutors and police Nazarov paid them money, paid for their foreign trips and banquets. Nazarov claimed that up to 80% of revenue was spent on bribes.
          Alfred Reingoldovich Koch?

          Is the ice ax stuck?

          Oh yes ... I forgot the most important thing:

          enough ice axes?
        3. atakan
          atakan 8 June 2016 01: 36
          +1
          Quote: Genry
          you would take this phrase as a hint

          there the bandits are still those who perceive hints as weakness, so the reaction is not as if the opposite of the one you expressed.
  11. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 7 June 2016 08: 25
    +3
    It can be seen that the author of the article is rooting for the cause ... even if half of the above is true (an open trench) ... then the enterprise and the industry where it belongs ... are deeply ill ... Of the two Russian questions, WHO IS GUILTY and WHAT TO DO. .. I personally have always been interested in the second
    I would like to hear what can be done ... where to go at all ... who and how can and should pay for the development of the industry
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 7 June 2016 11: 58
      +2
      Quote: silberwolf88
      It can be seen that the author of the article is rooting for the cause ... even if half of the above is true (an open trench) ... then the enterprise and the industry where it belongs ... are deeply ill ... Of the two Russian questions, WHO IS GUILTY and WHAT TO DO. .. I personally have always been interested in the second
      I would like to hear what can be done ... where to go at all ... who and how can and should pay for the development of the industry

      All that the author described, I understand, all these are the "achievements" of capitalism, so to speak, the fruits of freedom. The problem is systemic, and the same is true to varying degrees in other large enterprises. You read about KBKhA, and other familiar enterprises with exactly the same problems come to mind.
      What to do? Unclear. One thing is clear, during the USSR there were no such problems (though there were others!). Well, well, for what they fought ...
    2. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 7 June 2016 13: 10
      +3
      Quote: silberwolf88
      WHAT TO DO

      slowly, painstakingly, systematically teach personnel, and clean out parasites. There is a simple but effective recipe for retaining a specialist. Housing! Departmental apartment with the right to VERY preferential privatization after 10 years of work, and a person will work for a small salary. There would be guarantees. And the cost of an apartment building in comparison with the turnover of a penny enterprise. Especially if you use "horizontal" links of the leadership.
      "Defective managers" deny the obvious phenomenon. It's time to forget the mantra - "outside the gates 100 of the same specialists are waiting for a place to be vacated" They don't wait, they found another job, lost their qualifications, drank themselves, died ...
  12. NOTaFED
    NOTaFED 7 June 2016 08: 52
    +9
    We need a revolutionary purge of the "effective" ones, they themselves will not leave.
    The "efficient" railways have already been brought to the point of absurdity:
    A ticket for a good branded train Nizhny Novgorod - Adler costs 14 rubles (just a coupe, not SV and not Lux). 382 hours on the road
    A ticket for a good plane (AEROFLOT, direct flight) Nizhny Novgorod - Adler costs 8850 rubles. The trip takes 2 hours 30 minutes.
    Both vehicles depart on Saturday, the most requested day.
    Here is the efficiency !!!
  13. Forever so
    Forever so 7 June 2016 08: 54
    +13
    Heck!!! Here the author is shouting outright with a cry - I don’t take a bribe, it's a shame for the state !!!!!! And I understand him. Only bankers, whom lawyers now put on the management of factories, are only interested in the MZDA, and on the state they are hired. As the Chinese say there - What would you like to live in an age of change ?? This is like the worst damnation. there are no Chinese, the worst thing is - What would lawyers and bankers manage for you. That's when the scribe comes.
  14. Cloudberry
    Cloudberry 7 June 2016 09: 10
    +7
    We also began to recruit our boys and girls to prepared places. They are not responsible for anything, they write reports, and structural engineers order screws and nuts for them. And if you forgot to order something or did not have time before the right time, then it’s not the supply department that is being punished, but again the designers. Technically all illiterate, do not distinguish bolts from screws. And they don’t want to know anything. The empty eyes of managers scare.
  15. Mihail55
    Mihail55 7 June 2016 09: 12
    +6
    Exactly, SCREAM! Surprisingly, the unions remained there. Is it even worth stuttering in its small fry if such colossi are ruining !!! Is the election going smoothly? It seems that everything has already been decided. Sorry, so sorry ...
    1. sherp2015
      sherp2015 7 June 2016 09: 42
      +5
      Quote: Michael55
      Is the election going smoothly? It seems that everything has already been decided. Sorry, so sorry ...


      Will have to stomp on the election and vote for the Communists
  16. lelikbolik
    lelikbolik 7 June 2016 09: 12
    +1
    Low bow to all. And most likely this is "sabotage" - as temporarily inevitable, when trying to squeeze the company out of the modern method ... weaken, "look from afar", buy out the depreciated assets ... on the eve of serious defense orders. Typical method of "serious" gray cardinals. In the defense industry, it rarely happens .... "random people" ... in recent times.
    1. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 7 June 2016 22: 30
      +1
      I wonder how you are going to fulfill these "future serious defense orders" when all the specialists scatter ?! Well, tell me where the KB is. M. Mil? They also went bankrupt, squeezed out. Something I do not see the latest developments of the Mil Design Bureau - they are trying to bring the MI-28 still of the Soviet design to mind. And then on "Russian Helicopters" the most effective manager (stooltkin) happened! Do not wait for more new helicopters, he will try!
  17. Burivad
    Burivad 7 June 2016 09: 36
    +3
    Yes ... I agree with the cry of the author’s soul. He worked at a defense enterprise and the feeling was exactly the same. More precisely, the scheme of the extinction of the enterprise is exactly the same. Everything was somehow obvious even for an unaware person.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 7 June 2016 13: 37
      +6
      Well, it’s not surprising that they are trying to optimize - 2600 people work, gives out 12 (roughly) engines per year with a monstrous cost.
      They cannot load themselves by work, but to support a whole plant and 2600 people - EXPENSIVE!
      It is impossible to close - even 12 (conditionally) engines per year are needed, because the domestic program for launching satellites will be covered.
      In order for the plant not to be unprofitable, it would be necessary for it to produce engines of at least $ 500000-700000 million a year in equivalent.
      If 12 engines are made, then each of them incurs the costs of maintaining the plant and people in the amount of 41.6666 million dollars! - this is not counting the materials of the tool, etc.

      (For example, the RD-180 engine, which the Americans buy, costs $ 13-17 million, according to various estimates.)

      That is, the plant should make 50-70 engines so that they have an affordable price. If the state does not require such a number of engines and the plant cannot produce anything else / does not want / does not know how - it remains only to reduce it.

      In general, you probably have a big problem with the technologists, if, having changed the welding technology, you did not think how it will affect the product ...

      Well, "Effective" managers - from ignorance of the processes and fundamentals of production - will begin to cut down on the main "earning" specialists, ruining the established technical process, which seems to be revived by no one ...
  18. pashec77
    pashec77 7 June 2016 09: 45
    +5
    The author wrote everything correctly. I myself have worked in this organization for 10 years.
    1. dla94
      dla94 9 June 2016 18: 02
      0
      I am joining. Work experience 16 years.
  19. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 7 June 2016 10: 02
    +9
    Quote: siberalt
    The system must be changed!


    It was not for this that they imposed the power of capital in order to change it. The system has rotted and will be even worse.
  20. siberalt
    siberalt 7 June 2016 10: 08
    +2
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: tegezen
    And where did Rogozin say that? Or lies for a red word?

    He told reporters. Then, however, they corrected his tie.


    + 100500! laughing
  21. Mikado
    Mikado 7 June 2016 10: 18
    +2
    need political will .. and it works .. and people will be happy ..
  22. Vetka
    Vetka 7 June 2016 10: 31
    +3
    And we have the same thing. The directors were appointed - Honored Lawyer, recruited a team of effective ones. The plant is dying, people are leaving, effective ones are paid several times higher than the salaries of experienced specialists. The average age of employees is 51 years. The effective one bought a cable for state orders not according to the specification, but cheaper. Now buys the right one. And most importantly, there was nothing for him.
    Our products have no analogues in the world, and they simply choke us.
    1. lelikbolik
      lelikbolik 7 June 2016 11: 26
      0
      You yourself most likely understand everything.
      Remember Kuzma Prutkov's "Look at the root". Nothing just happens. Once upon a time, I also faced "sabotage", then analyzed it, and figured it out .... at the "helm" of the company was "a convinced communist from a past life", democracy was like a red rag for him, he deliberately "spoiled" everything by doing an unspoken the installation of the Communist Party, the worse the better .... a kind of political struggle no matter what, even the future of the country. Now "they" are not all "rebuilt" and it is easy to calculate them by such blunders. Contact the UK, FSB ... but not in your organization. Ideally, get through to the Kremlin. If the "breeze" is blowing from the wrong direction, then the "pests" will certainly be taken. With respect.
      1. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 7 June 2016 22: 36
        0
        Question to you, you are our analyst! Why "Zyu" has already gone to the GDP 2 times raising the problem of NK-93? After all, according to your analysis - "fulfilling the tacit directive of the Communist Party, the worse the better ..." he should, on the contrary, not remember this engine?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 June 2016 13: 42
          0
          Unfortunately, NK 93 has nothing to put on; the engine is too big and heavy.
  23. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 7 June 2016 11: 22
    +3
    "And we were not lucky, as they say. There are no conditions at our enterprise under which the same heptyl
    exceeded the norm in 5 maximum concentration limits. There is one maximum concentration limit for heptyl - you already have to have a gas mask on your head
    and rip out of there as quickly as possible. And then 5 ... Heptyl is safe, what else can I say ... Norm. "////

    "Heptil, if you grab a small dose, then the toilet is your friend for half a day. ...
    It’s not all that burns, of course, such a cloud forms above the polygon.
    He who appeared next to him, that ... well, I understood.
    And there, trees in the gardens in black holes and foliage are dumped,
    gardeners have been complaining for all 50 years "/////

    Wow! Maybe, well, what the heptyl?
    1. opus
      opus 7 June 2016 12: 16
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Wow! Maybe, well, what the heptyl?

      At the ISS HOUSE on UDMG + AT
      Shuttle HOUSE on Aerosin-50 - a mixture of hydrazine and UDMH + AT

      Heptyl is included in the group of hydrazine fuels, which are used as fuel both on Russian launch vehicles (Cosmos, Cyclone, Proton), and on foreign ones (on American rockets of the Titan family, French launch vehicles of the Arian family ", Chinese LVs of the Big Campaign family, etc.), all HOUSES, remote control with a duration of the fuel storage cycle (Buran, Voyager, RB: Agen, Breeze, Volga, DM, Frigate), satellite HOUSE, almost all


      Centaur knocks out: is the first overclocking unit that uses cryogenic fuel components - liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen (LH2 / LOX). The stabilization of the contents of the tanks is ensured by pressure.
      The engine uses one or two LRE RL-10A-4-2
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------
      UDMH + AT are dangerous until they burn out (and the remains in the tanks of the falling steps). TT flammable polymer
      high energy intensity with metal - more dangerous after it burns down
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 7 June 2016 13: 33
        0
        Kerosene and hydrogen are better - one ton of kerosene costs 33000 rubles, and a ton of liquid hydrogen 248000 rubles.
        1. opus
          opus 7 June 2016 14: 27
          +1
          Quote: Vadim237
          Kerosene and hydrogen are better - one ton of kerosene costs 33000 rubles, and a ton of liquid hydrogen 248000 rubles.

          1.AT and UDMH are even cheaper (by an order of magnitude or on 2)
          2. Hydrogen cryogen. the cost of transporting the contents, discharge, etc. will be close to the cost of a ton
          3. Both kerosene and hydrogen require a cryogenic oxidizing agent (O2) - the cost of transporting the contents, discharge, etc. will be close to the cost of a ton.
          1 + 2 + 3 = the cost of withdrawing 1 kg Mon on DOE.
          "Economy rules"
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 June 2016 13: 36
            0
            But you can organize the production of hydrogen and kerosene near the cosmodrome.
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 June 2016 13: 39
            0
            It’s time already for rockets to create ramjet engines so that oxidizing agents are not used.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  24. Dr. Sorge
    Dr. Sorge 7 June 2016 11: 22
    +5
    Someone planned a professional blow under the breath of the defense industry and is successfully implementing it.
  25. lelikbolik
    lelikbolik 7 June 2016 11: 35
    -3
    There are many hidden enemies in the country. Very!. Actually, all countries have enough such problems, this is obvious. Unfortunately, Vladimir Vladimirovich is forced to keep “such” around him (subjectively). May God grant him health and long life. Perhaps only the proletariat keeps everything. Hold on, men, we are a lot of real patriots ..... we will "digest" all these greedy bitches. Now the main thing is to educate your children correctly! Then the Country will have a future for which the grandchildren will not be ashamed.
    With respect.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 7 June 2016 14: 43
      +6
      Quote: lelikbolik
      There are a lot of hidden enemies in the country
      I agree.
      Quote: lelikbolik
      Vladimir Vladimirovich is even forced to keep "such" around him (subjectively)
      Poor thing, forced the poor. There were no completely talented people in the government, and there was no one to choose from; every shit had to surround himself.
      Quote: lelikbolik
      May God grant him health and long life.
      fool
      Quote: lelikbolik
      we will "digest" all these greedy bitches.
      As I understand it, the president is in itself, the government and the ministers themselves. Funny, isn't it ?!
    2. mav1971
      mav1971 7 June 2016 17: 53
      0
      Quote: lelikbolik
      There are a lot of hidden enemies in the country.
      With respect.


      Regrettably, but the enemy of our country is our people.
      These are our people, occupying any position, they become corrupt officials and bribe-takers. These are our people all the time, secretly or openly, boasted by relatives or friends working in the traffic police or the Administration. It is our people who constantly call someone they know who can "solve problems" and boast about it.

      Do you understand or not?
      We all live in this country with double standards ourselves. We cannot send a relative of a thieving official. We do not break all ties with him. On the contrary, we value him. He is the right person. And why the right one, because you can call him and get out.

      And so do almost everything.
      Many have told me - I'm not like that, I'm honest.
      I say well, if you are honest, why do you work in a high position at a Western oil company, and you personally attribute expensive gifts to important people for 10-20 thousand bucks. He shuts up.
      Another honest one. Question. Why when you drove to red - you paid the cops 20 tyr. ?
      And so it is everywhere. I do not know a single genuinely crystal-honest person who would not be directly or indirectly smeared in corruption or theft ....
      I do not know.
      1. Sunseich
        Sunseich 7 June 2016 19: 27
        +1
        I set a minus - I say right away
        the reason for this behavior is purely psychological: uncertainty about tomorrow
        If I believe that tomorrow everything will be stable, then I will lead differently!
        If I know that we have inflation of 15% (and in fact it is even cooler), then the delayed thousand with a sn in a year will turn into 500 rubles.
        And everyone is starting to grab! Tomorrow it may not be
        Well, maybe a little Asian mentality adds tortuosity of the mind))
  26. HMR333
    HMR333 7 June 2016 11: 37
    .
    another article of the pro-Western whiner! Firstly, everything in space is fine, as orders go; people work, they even buy over the hill! so whine about the fact that everything is collapsed, etc. this is bullshit! and who told you that he works somewhere? he didn’t even bother to write his surname and name with a photo so that he could check if there was such an employee! in general, nagging is nothing in the space industry, everything is just fine! this companion is aching, maybe he was stealing, but now they don’t give it so he complains that they don’t give how to live!
    1. opus
      opus 7 June 2016 12: 26
      +3
      Quote: HMR333
      another article of the pro-Western whiner!

      Oh my God"...
      Is Roman Skomorokhov a "pro-Western whiner"?
      fool
      read at your leisure:

      here with this:

      I agree to 80%

      But with the fact that Banshee is a "pro-Western whiner", no.
      ================================================== ==
      Quote: HMR333
      this companion is aching, maybe he was stealing, but now they don’t give it so he complains that they don’t give how to live!


      Damn, where did you get so many dumb informers from?
    2. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 7 June 2016 22: 50
      +1
      "in space, everything is fine, as orders go people work even over the hill buys!"
      Well, in that case, explain how then "progress" falls ?! How did "Phobos" end up in the Pacific Ocean instead of Mars ?! Like every other time our satellites instead of orbit into the ocean ...
      "he didn't even bother to write his last name and first name with a photo" Are you really that naive or are you holding us for suckers? As soon as he subscribes, and everything, at best, the enterprise will survive! In 2009, we received part of the money for January in April, after one employee turned to the prosecutor's office. They settled with the prosecutor's office, but as soon as they figured him out, he instantly flew out of the factory!
      1. asiat_61
        asiat_61 8 June 2016 03: 54
        0
        How did you fall? How did you please? Yes, it’s heavier than air, so it fell and guessed.
  27. lelikbolik
    lelikbolik 7 June 2016 11: 55
    +1
    Quote: HMR333
    another article of the pro-Western whiner! Firstly, everything in space is fine, as orders go; people work, they even buy over the hill! so whine about the fact that everything is collapsed, etc. this is bullshit! and who told you that he works somewhere? he didn’t even bother to write his surname and name with a photo so that he could check if there was such an employee! in general, nagging is nothing in the space industry, everything is just fine! this companion is aching, maybe he was stealing, but now they don’t give it so he complains that they don’t give how to live!


    Most likely the thought has the right to exist, if not for one No. Either all the kamenty are written here by a group of people pursuing the goal of writing in the "negative" about what is happening (say for the loot .... well, let's say the competitors of the enterprise or non-profit organization), or is it still reality. Then you try to disguise the problem. wink
  28. mav1971
    mav1971 7 June 2016 12: 15
    +4
    It is not effective.
    It's just a sawmill ...
    Effective in environmental business do not spin.
    For in the near-state - they are tied by conditions - from head to toe.

    They are only in private.
  29. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 7 June 2016 12: 27
    +1
    It was necessary to do the conversion 25 years ago - the red directors, in the majority, are used to sitting on government orders and not thinking with a turnip ...
    It’s rare that someone from the military-industrial complex has switched to something that can be profitably sold on the world market ...
    With rare exceptions.
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 7 June 2016 12: 58
      +5
      Conversion is a bluff. Explain to me how a company that produces for example an SLA can produce televisions. This is completely different equipment, different technologies, the production cycle. It’s with such political and populist slogans in the 90s that the defense industry collapsed.
      1. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer 7 June 2016 16: 58
        +1
        Quote: Dimon19661
        Conversion is a bluff. Explain to me how a company that produces for example an SLA can produce televisions. This is completely different equipment, different technologies, the production cycle. It’s with such political and populist slogans in the 90s that the defense industry collapsed.


        You have no idea about the production?
        How did locomotive factories become tank factories in WWII?
        If you have qualified personnel, equipment — you make the necessary equipment and implement the technology — you have a T-34 (exaggerating) instead of a steam locomotive.
        The Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant makes tractors, and the mobilization reserve will allow us to quickly re-profile again the production of military tracked vehicles, if necessary.
        But the management of military factories, always considered civilian needs to be something so unnecessary - secondary. They are all thinking about Russia!
        Therefore, civilian conversion equipment at such plants is basically a complete G. ..!
        I only know the Zavolzhsky caterpillar tractor plant, which in its profile makes high-quality all-terrain vehicles regardless of where - to the army or civilian.
        Uralaz — as the obsolete G did — does so. Kamaz, despite the fact that it began to put clutch steering columns from China, is still a terrible quality. A Chinese dump truck serves 5-7 years, and Kamazovskoye G will get rid of it a year and a half later - the prohibitive repair costs are pouring in. And there are many such examples throughout the defense industry,

        The fact is that in the West and we have a different historical approach to the "defense industry".
        In our country, in the era of the Cold War, defense state enterprises were nurtured, which were originally focused on military production. As a result of the loss in the Cold War and the reduction of the defense order - there is nothing to load enterprises with, and there are few workers to feed. Uralvagonzavod - when it did not produce tanks - made wagons and excavators (though shitty), because it is uninteresting - cheap to do - this is the process of reverse conversion.

        In the West, a tender is announced, several private companies a priori producing mainly civilian equipment, but having a unit developing military products, participate in it.
        As a result, the winner receives a defense order - the US government can usually choose from several projects and several suppliers (there is, of course, a complex system, but very effective). Even 5th generation aircraft projects were allowed for prototyping - two. We have an uncontested T-50 - but this is good - most countries and one project cannot "raise" so we are still in the top three.

        Why am I pouring it all here - of course, it’s impossible to transfer unique enterprises to conversion, especially those that make the LMS - but these just found their niche - most cameras and radars on our roads that read speed and car numbers are a conversion product :( (it would be better if the MSAs were involved!)

        Another minus of our defense industry is that most technologies live in it and do not bring nichrome into the economy.
        Most of the technologies in the West immediately find civilian applications - for example, almost 1,5 million American workers, scientists, engineers were involved in the preparation of the lunar program, and enormous funds were spent. But something has returned to the economy in the form of inventions that have found their civilian application.
        We made roofs for dance floors in Baikonur from the N-1 tanks ...
        It is nonsense.
        The use of certain technologies in the Russian economy would make our country not only advanced, but also economically strong.
        In the meantime, we rise from our knees and fall again, as the oil valve is tightened and then released ...
        1. voffchik7691
          voffchik7691 7 June 2016 23: 18
          +1
          "Even the projects of 5th generation aircraft were allowed for prototyping - two. We have no alternative T-50"
          And what else do we have KB working on fighters other than Sukhoi ?! Hello, wake up! Yakovlev Design Bureau where? MIG has long been buried ...
          1. DimerVladimer
            DimerVladimer 9 June 2016 11: 18
            +1
            Quote: voffchik7691
            Even 5th generation aircraft projects were allowed for prototyping - two. We have no alternative T-50 "
            And what else do we have KB working on fighters other than Sukhoi ?! Hello, wake up! Yakovlev Design Bureau where? MIG has long been buried ...


            And why not?
            Because our economy is on the 5th place in the world, inferior to the American one at times, Russia cannot afford to finance the development of 2 prototypes of the 5th generation aircraft.

            The Chinese economy is strong, and China can afford to build 2 prototypes of the 5th generation.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 7 June 2016 13: 37
      0
      Well, here in the 90s we started conversion - not knowing what to do and how to behave in a market economy, and then everything collapsed.
  30. RPG_
    RPG_ 7 June 2016 13: 22
    +2
    Now, at all plants, almost everything is the same. But if this is not so scary in the automotive industry, then the cosmonautics and defense industry may not survive this.
    1. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 7 June 2016 23: 25
      +1
      "It's not so scary in the auto industry"

      Are you talking about AvtoVAZ? The Zavolzhsky plant that supplied spare parts to the VAZ was closed. Now localization of components more than 70% from behind the hill! Soon, and the VAZ will be covered. Do you know how many losses at VAZ last year?
      By the way, Mercedes bought KAMAZ shares. This did not affect the quality, it will soon be visible and it will fall apart. Why do they need a competitor, and even with so many victories in Dakar ?!
      1. RedBaron
        RedBaron 8 June 2016 05: 35
        0
        Quote: voffchik7691
        By the way, Mercedes bought KAMAZ shares. This did not affect the quality, it will soon be visible and it will fall apart. Why do they need a competitor, and even with so many victories in Dakar ?!

        since this KAMAZ has already been around 10 years as a branch of anything but KAMAZ, they realized it late, now it is already releasing - Mercedes cabs, a Mercedes engine, a box certainly not made in KAMAZ ....
  31. DPN
    DPN 7 June 2016 15: 18
    0
    From the beginning in the 90s they allowed to ruin the country, and nothing about plants. And when there is no unemployment in the country, then you will need space flights, but for now you have to.
  32. Barakuda
    Barakuda 7 June 2016 15: 35
    +1
    MEN! Do not celebrate. I added .. I was on the site and by phone. Court tomorrow. They can be soldered for 5 years. Hoping for the best. Roma "banshee" Hello!
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 7 June 2016 15: 53
      +6
      Quote: Barracuda
      Do not wave badly

      Address, if Che, drop it - where to send the parcels and money ... crying
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 8 June 2016 06: 00
      0
      Quote: Barracuda
      MEN! Do not wave badly. I added .. I was on the site and by phone. Tomorrow's trial. They can solder for 5 years. Hoping for the best.

      "Mow" about youth, inexperience, political undevelopment and an unenthusiastic way of thinking and put pressure on peasant origin. I will bend my fingers for you today in Moscow from 9-00.
  33. AlexA
    AlexA 7 June 2016 16: 47
    +4
    Quote: Dex
    why in the previous article you contrast the KBHA and the Khrunichev Center. As recently as 11 years old, you yourself have been a branch. (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=22) As well as Proton-PM.

    But that's why it contrasts that the center named after Khrunichev, receiving, as the general contractor, money from the state for the supply of products, uses them at its discretion and pays off to branches directly producing engines with months-long delays, and even in miserable amounts (this us in Perm with Proton as well).
    And because of this, all the problems with the personnel, their payment, equipment and other things.
    And all the problems Roman outlined for sure.
    The main enemy of all Russian industry is not America, not Europe with their sanctions, but Moscow's "effective" owners. Any enterprise will tell you this.
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 7 June 2016 17: 10
      +1
      Quote: AlexA
      But that's why it contrasts that the center named after Khrunichev, receiving, as the general contractor, money from the state for the supply of products, uses them at its discretion and pays off to branches directly producing engines with months-long delays, and even in miserable amounts (this us in Perm with Proton as well).
      And because of this, all the problems with the personnel, their payment, equipment and other things.
      And all the problems Roman outlined for sure.
      The main enemy of all Russian industry is not America, not Europe with their sanctions, but Moscow's "effective" owners. Any enterprise will tell you this.


      I can imagine how engineers in the General Electik branch are discussing "... they don't pay money, they sit at their headquarters, their apartment - they are sawing our money ..."

      Do not pay - go away, find yourself a worthy application if you are not appreciated as a specialist and as an employee.

      I tied up the 21 defense industry a year ago with my own head and master - I rise and fall along with the unfortunate Russian economy.
      I don’t whine, support, feed and grow my children and grandchildren, I provide my employees with work.
      1. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 7 June 2016 23: 37
        0
        It is interesting if all 21 years ago they were tied up with a military commissar, like you, would we have a SU-30,34,35, C400 ?!
        Do you know the feeling of pride in what you have done, what no one can do? So many for this work and no matter what, and hold on their shoulders a defense.
        1. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer 9 June 2016 10: 23
          +1
          Quote: voffchik7691
          It is interesting if all 21 years ago they were tied up with a military commissar, like you, would we have a SU-30,34,35, C400 ?!
          Do you know the feeling of pride in what you have done, what no one can do? So many for this work and no matter what, and hold on their shoulders a defense.


          Well, do not compare - I did not want to be an extra, to sit for a salary.
          Therefore, he left to gain experience in other areas, losing rocket engineering experience, but gaining and applying his knowledge in other technical fields.
          As a result, I saw the world, looked at how dozens of foreign enterprises work, could compare them with domestic ones, understand their advantages.
          Unfortunately, I did not reach the level of my design bureau - every crisis in the country was thrown back years ago.
          But his service for the maintenance and repair of special equipment and a team of specialists were created and maintained in spite of the economic twists and turns of our not respected government.
      2. Greenwood
        Greenwood 8 June 2016 06: 48
        0
        What, everyone according to your example needs to go into business? And who will work for the country?
        1. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer 9 June 2016 10: 37
          +1
          Quote: Greenwood
          What, everyone according to your example needs to go into business? And who will work for the country?


          This is everyone’s decision.
          Someone calmer to sit on a salary.
          And someone wants to depend on mediocre managers and may try to build their own business.

          I’ve been working for the country for 21 years — tens of times more in taxes have been paid than I received personal gain — so the big question is that if I were an engineer, I would have brought more benefits to the country. And so, for my taxes, a pension for 30-40 pensioners or for a platoon of military men under a contract would be enough - also not bad.
          Plus charity - to the home of the baby (children abandoned in maternity hospitals), the Abode (single mothers and their children who need), a motorcycle club for difficult teenagers, etc.

          I have to "plow" 10-15 hours a day and for 21 years I was on vacation only 5 times for 10-12 days no more.
          Working for yourself is no less fun than relaxing where you want.

          You can work for the country without being listed in the department of any state design bureau.
  34. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 7 June 2016 20: 01
    +1
    Quote: Sergey777
    Do you think the leadership is not aware of what is happening?

    May be. If you fly an airplane, it is difficult to determine from a height what is going on on the ground. And the view from above is beautiful. As Yeltsin said during the first Chechen war: "I like the situation in the country." Although the situation in the country was awful. So it is here.
  35. kotuk_ha_oxote
    kotuk_ha_oxote 7 June 2016 20: 47
    +2
    Quote: DimerVladimer
    Quote: AlexA
    But that's why it contrasts that the center named after Khrunichev, receiving, as the general contractor, money from the state for the supply of products, uses them at its discretion and pays off to branches directly producing engines with months-long delays, and even in miserable amounts (this us in Perm with Proton as well).
    And because of this, all the problems with the personnel, their payment, equipment and other things.
    And all the problems Roman outlined for sure.
    The main enemy of all Russian industry is not America, not Europe with their sanctions, but Moscow's "effective" owners. Any enterprise will tell you this.


    I can imagine how engineers in the General Electik branch are discussing "... they don't pay money, they sit at their headquarters, their apartment - they are sawing our money ..."

    Do not pay - go away, find yourself a worthy application if you are not appreciated as a specialist and as an employee.

    I tied up the 21 defense industry a year ago with my own head and master - I rise and fall along with the unfortunate Russian economy.
    I don’t whine, support, feed and grow my children and grandchildren, I provide my employees with work.

    That is, people worrying about the industry, for the accumulated potential, Knowing that their specific knowledge and skills, the acquisition of which was spent many years -?
    Can you advise them to leave in June, India or Iran? So they have secrecy and stuff. But they don’t want to give out the secrets of the motherland.
    Can you advise a local spaceX to establish? Oh well.
    If a person wants to do something that creates prestige for the country, then can he at least stop spitting in his face, evaluating his work lower than the work of professional pigtails in the office?

    They completely shook the Olgin shame;
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 9 June 2016 10: 59
      +1
      Quote: kotuk_ha_oxote
      That is, people worrying about the industry, for the accumulated potential, Knowing that their specific knowledge and skills, the acquisition of which was spent many years -?
      Can you advise them to leave in June, India or Iran? So they have secrecy and stuff. But they don’t want to give out the secrets of the motherland.
      Can you advise a local spaceX to establish? Oh well.


      Are we already on you?

      Everyone makes his own decision - someone from the KBM helped S. Korea build his own LV.
      Of course, the key specialists have remained, and may God grant them health, with all due respect! We meet at the department and how we can help. And it’s good that since 2013 their affairs have been improving (the state has come up with how to use them).

      It is unrealistic to create your own space X without funds and investors - an "entrance ticket" in this road industry.
      But a lot of things in Russia technically lagged behind or in their infancy.

      The reason is that the state, while declaring import substitution, actually complicates the life of its producers so much - robbing them of "utilization levies" that soon only large machine-building enterprises will remain, and medium and small technical business will die.

      As an example of the approach of states to producers:
      Attempts to organize production in the Russian Federation come up against requisitions of officials, difficulties with connecting capacities, dozens of checking commissions and monstrous interest on loans.

      At the same time, the road to China is open for you to create any kind of production - you will allocate a site, let in light and water and roads, if you employ more than 1000 people, you also get tax benefits.
      When comparing the possibilities of opening production in Russia and China - with almost the same taxation of VAT and income tax, China has much less social taxes. No need to spend money on heating industrial premises.
      Credit in China from 4,5-6% in Russia 12-17%.

      Well and most importantly - if the ruble is depreciating, then it is becoming more expensive to work for exporter in such conditions. And the yuan fluctuates in a year - less than a ruble in a week. That is, the Chinese economy is stably stable and profitable for the manufacturer.
  36. Zloy ork
    Zloy ork 7 June 2016 21: 55
    +5
    And under Joseph, nits destroying the industry would be shot. And there are half or more parasites. Judging by the article, the liberals completely frightened the king, to the level of the wild 90s. Sadness ..
  37. Cat Workout
    Cat Workout 8 June 2016 00: 19
    0
    Cognitively, of course.
    But, it feels like no one is flying anywhere wink
  38. asiat_61
    asiat_61 8 June 2016 04: 13
    0
    I will write sedition, but all the same. There is a so-called "conspiracy theory" to destroy Russia. In my opinion, this is not a theory, but a real conspiracy. They have been participating in it since the effective Medvedev, Naibulina, now Kudrin has been pulled up, well and other differential managers. The final bright touch is the new privatization. Everything that this shobla does should cause a splash of popular discontent. I really do not like the fact that Putin has not erased any of their gang into powder. All the talk that Putin is gradually preparing to change, boltology. 16 years in power, the KGB, the army, everything is in the hands, and constant excuses.
  39. RedBaron
    RedBaron 8 June 2016 05: 28
    0
    Behind all the victorious reports on the victorious roscosmos of all Russia and trampolines 3.14pets crept up in the form of private companies from the USA which, by launch, were already not so far behind the supercompany.
  40. Irbenwolf
    Irbenwolf 8 June 2016 11: 20
    0
    Bravo! Great article. The novel has outdone itself. Finally, the Russian people began to seriously take an interest in their "vegetable garden" and raise the question point-blank, regarding factories and enterprises that allow hurray-patriots to scream about "they are lagging behind us."

    It is remarkable that the employees "connect the Internet" - this is a very powerful platform for asking questions that are not in the "program" at the next meeting with the wimpy presidential efficiency officials.

    Go on! And we all hope that Russian technologies will develop thanks to Russian young specialists, and not to decrepit Soviet retirees.
  41. Leader
    Leader 8 June 2016 14: 15
    0
    A novel, before you write about something, please check whether the facts are reliable, otherwise, everything looks like "I heard" and "I was told."
  42. Tishka
    Tishka 8 June 2016 15: 46
    0
    Everything is written correctly. but the trouble is that this is not the lot of one plant or factory, this is the problem of the whole country! 25 years old, incompetent leadership, that to the helm, put their people "effective" managers. to quickly break up, and sell for a penny! One would think that the soldiers were asked when Serdyukov, with the women's battalion, was put in the place of the Minister of Defense? And so, in all industries. and factories, everywhere their people, and the people. this is so, superfluous people in their own country! Vaughn Boo Anderson, corrected GAZ, where our Volga is now, then transferred to VAZ, from domestic parts, only the name, all components, came from the west, providing jobs there, if not removed, then the VAZ would have ruined , why should the West have competitors, if you can merge your products here! Today in the news, they showed a new MC-21-300. Well, they rolled it out, showed it, and they'll roll it back! Who banned the operation of the IL-96? You might think that the pilots, they fly on what they bought, and don't spit, but there is only one way out, not happy, go! And someone, on the purchase of trash, not badly welded into his pocket! So, the tsar may be good, and with foreign policy, everything may be fine, but the country is a mess. and it is necessary for both the tsar and the boyars, on the bunk, in Magadan, since they cannot cope!