Military Review

Battle for Europe: Neanderthal vs. Cro-Magnon

93



We all studied human evolution in biology class. Australopithecus, a skillful man, a man erect, Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon. According to our humble ideas, dinosaurs first lived, then mammals “ousted” them, then the brain began to develop in some monkeys. Somehow it was assumed by default that at first there were Neanderthals (squat, hairy and stocky, with large brow ridges). Then in their place appeared more slender Cro-Magnon man with a large volume of brain. And those same Neanderthals smoothly disappeared, like the ancient 90's computers. However, science does not stand still (Fomenko will not let you lie): new facts are revealed, archaeological expeditions are being conducted, research is being conducted. Including using those same computers. So, as it turns out - there was a problem, there was an interspecific war. Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon tens of thousands of years existed side by side, in the same area. And this existence was not peaceful.

The fact is that both Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals occupied the same ecological niche. This means that they used almost the same food sources in practically the same habitat. Yes, of course, this is not uncommon. Different predators claim the same prey. A flock of hyenas can take prey from a lioness, etc. Even different types of ants cruelly compete with each other. However, here the whole picture was complicated by the presence of mind in both species. Yes, this was exactly the case: two intelligent species were fighting a fierce battle between themselves, at least in Europe. Neanderthals eventually lost, but that does not mean that the war was easy and transient.

Before stating further material, I would like to point out one important moment. If a history We can restore the XXVII CPSU Congress in colors and colors, then with the II Congress of the RSDLP the situation is not so rosy. All the more problematic to hear the speeches of Cicero. The trouble is that modern man has become accustomed to an abundance of information, but this historical abundance has arisen quite recently. Photography is the 19th century, Gutenberg is the 15th century. All that used to be before is manuscripts, which, of course, do not burn, but which are unique and do not have backup copies. Therefore, the further we get into the history, the more difficult it is to restore even its details, but simply the general course of events. Wars, invasions, fires ... "Sometimes there are no names left from the heroes of bygone days ...". Alas - it is. There are epochs about which more information has been preserved, there are epochs about which practically nothing is known. And this applies to civilized eras with architecture and writing. The era about which I would like to tell, did not leave a single written document about itself. Most likely, they were not there then.

Battle for Europe: Neanderthal vs. Cro-Magnon


But even when writing was not yet invented, history was happening in Europe, and the story was bloody. Two types (or subspecies) of a person found out the relationship (mostly, oddly enough, it was on the European continent). Previously it was thought that the Neanderthal was an ancestor of the Cro-Magnon and accordingly our ancestor. So we were taught in school. But it was considered so before serious DNA research. When such studies were conducted, it turned out that we and the Neanderthals are too different. They are not the ancestors of the Cro-Magnon and, accordingly, not our ancestors. A certain confusion took place, and in the genome of the modern man there is from 1 to 4 percent of the Neanderthal genes (this percentage varies among different nations), but we are not relatives.

In 1997, researchers from the University of Munich, after analyzing the DNA of the remains of the very first Neanderthal found, found that the differences between him and the modern man are too great to be considered relatives. At the University of Zurich, a comparative study of the skulls of a two-year-old Neanderthal and a Cro-Magnon corresponding in age was conducted. The conclusion is stunning: the cranial bones were formed in completely different ways. Based on these data, a number of scientists in the United States and Europe came to the conclusion that Neanderthals were neither ancestors nor relatives of modern man. The paths of Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons diverged 500-600 thousands of years ago (according to other estimates, from 200 thousands of years to a million), they had a common ancestor, and for a long time they existed on the planet together, and then 35-40 thousands of years ago - ( here the timeframe is much more accurate than the Cro-Magnon man began to force out the Neanderthal man, and the latter disappeared without a trace. By the way, the last surviving Neanderthals lived in the area of ​​Gibraltar and even in the Crimea. So what were they: Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon?



The physique of the Cro-Magnon was less rough and massive than that of the Neanderthals. They were tall (height up to 180-190 cm) and had elongated "tropical" (that is, characteristic of modern tropical human populations) body proportions - for example, the Tropicans' legs and arms are longer than the "polar explorers" (and especially the forearms and shins). Their skull compared to that of the Neanderthals had a higher and rounded arch, a straight and smoother forehead, protruding chin. Cro-Magnon type people were distinguished by a low but wide face, angular orbits, a narrow, strongly protruding nose and a large brain. In general, we are the direct descendants of the Cro-Magnons (anatomically, we are practically indistinguishable from them). And the whole subsequent history of mankind is the history of Cro-Magnons and their descendants. So we know more about us, less about them.

As we now know, Neanderthals were stocky, short (165 cm) and with a large head of an unusual shape. Powerful eyebrows, massive nose and inconspicuous chin. The constitution of the Neanderthal people was much heavier and stockier than that of the Cro-Magnon: a broad chest, strong long arms, short, thick legs, a large head on a thick neck. They weighed about 90 a kilogram, and it was a real bunch of muscles. By the way, the Neanderthal had a brain larger than a Cro-Magnon or a modern man (1400-1600 cub. See vs. 1200-1300 cub. See), but a slightly different “configuration”: the frontal lobes were poorly developed. The maximum lifespan did not reach 50 years. The flowering of life activity fell on the period from 12 to 35 years. It was in 12 that the Neanderthals turned into a full-fledged man, that is, Neanderthals were born more mature and developed faster than Cro-Magnons. Up to senile age, the units were sick: death, hunting, or in clashes with other tribes. So according to scientists, life expectancy at best was 20 years. The main health problems are rickets, rheumatism and, of course, traumatic injuries. They lived in small groups of 35-40 people.



The basis of the diet was meat, even the fish they ate not so willingly. It should be noted that along with the bones of buffaloes and mammoths on the sites of Neanderthals there are Cro-Magnon bones. But it must be said that well-gnawed Neanderthal bones are also found at the Cro-Magnon camp sites. This somehow contradicts this idea of ​​peaceful existence, side by side of two different intelligent species. That, however, is not surprising, based on our knowledge of the world. By the way, the Neanderthal was a “native” European. The main habitat of his habitat was just Europe. And he lived there and lived there, roughly from 500 000 years BC. Was, so to speak, the top link in the food chain. The main source of food - hunting for large and very large game - driven hunting. Unlike the Cro-Magnon man, the Neanderthal did not paint the walls of the caves and did not use any decorations. Unlike Cro-Magnon, who actively used a variety of throwing weaponsuch as: throwing spears, bow and arrows, spear thrower, Neanderthal, did not master this technology, which had its consequences.


Habitat Neanderthals

He was forced to fight a large beast "face to face", which led to very high injuries. By the way, even then, hundreds of thousands of years before us, the profession of “chiropractor” existed and, as later studies showed, they worked very professionally: of the 36 cases of poor quality, the operation was performed only in 11. Once again - Neanderthals were not our ancestors, and all this happened in Europe, but a long time ago. So, even then the Neanderthals treated each other and quite effectively, and what can you do - you will not own these skills, the tribe will simply “quit” because of injuries. Yes, the Neanderthal physique surpassed any modern sportsman and possessed monstrous physical strength. But it was difficult to call this life pleasant and interesting. Making daily bread during an everyday hunt for a large (and super-large!) Beast in the absence of that throwing weapon required a very specific character. And so month after month, year after year. Moreover, this very “big beast” was not a tortured little animal from the aviary and, as a rule, had good chances to maim a hunter or kill him.

It is difficult to say why Neanderthals have not mastered throwing weapons, but this is exactly how it was, and this is one of their main differences from Cro-Magnon (some Neanderthal spears can be used for throwing, but these are not throwing spears). Neanderthals also knew no jewelery or musical instruments before contact with the Cro-Magnons. But, of course, these were not semi-wild animals. They buried the dead (the first to start doing this!), They took care of the old and the maimed. Another characteristic feature of the Neanderthals was that they loved to live in caves in the highlands (which is why “short-leggedness” was not so critical for them, according to some researchers), and they had to beat off these caves from cave bears. And I must say that cave bears are more dangerous than even grizzlies. The cave bear was one and a half times larger than a grizzly. But the hunt for a modern grizzly for a modern European is, in principle, possible only with a sniper or with an automatic rifle (and therefore it seems to be forbidden), but the Neanderthals killed them constantly, face to face, so to speak. I wonder how they did it. Yes, this is not a tormented carcass of a gopher against the background of a dozen drunken muzzles in military suits, with powerful rifles. At that time everything was grown-up.

So the Neanderthals were by no means the "whipping boys." In close combat, they were definitely much stronger than the Cro-Magnon man - wider at the shoulders, stronger, even their bones were as thick as possible (even to the extent of oppression of the bone marrow function). Initially it was thought that they had a smaller brain and they were more stupid, later studies established that despite their “beast-like” appearance, and their foreheads were indeed more sloping, they were not only inferior in size to the brain, but even surpassed the Cro-Magnon. Here, some researchers immediately put forward a bold assumption that the Neanderthal was smarter, and the Cro-Magnon was smarter (more convolutions!). According to some information, during the initial collision with the Cro-Magnon in the Middle East (the Cro-Magnon was from Africa, they were from Europe), the Neanderthals managed to push him back. And in the future, their confrontation in Europe lasted many, many thousands of years. And again: Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal were not relatives - they were two reasonable, competing species. And one species actually destroyed the other. Which, of course, is very intolerant. But this is the story.



The reasons for the final victory of a slender Cro-Magnon man over a healthy Neanderthal are called the most different: Cro-Magnon tamed dogs, but Neanderthals do not; Cro-Magnons did more efficient farming, and big game was not the main dish for them - they also “hemmed”: in the sense, small game, fish and fruit-vegetables (when hunting for small game - throwing weapons are absolutely necessary); There is also a version that Cro-Magnon people were more communicative - i.e. could discuss among themselves a more complex way of joint actions; there is a version that the Neanderthal birthplace, Europe, was simply much colder, smaller and poorer in terms of habitat (at the time!) than Africa, the homeland of Cro-Magnon, and thus Cro-Magnon people were "crushed by number"; There is a version that the Neanderthal was worse in child mortality - a smaller percentage of children survived, in general, studying the skeletons of Neanderthals, the scientists came to the conclusion that they had certain chronic health problems - the skeletons of young people are very worn out, as if they were from great physical overloads ; there is a version that, due to the different structure of the body (Neanderthals, as we understood, muscular, short-legged, short-armed men), the energy expenditure on movement they had 30% more percent, which reduced competitiveness; there is even a version that when the temperature of 70 fell thousands of years ago, Cro-Magnons were able to create very warm clothes made of hides, and Neanderthals were not so warm. There are many versions, it is impossible to say for the moment: too little data.



It's like with the extinction of dinosaurs, in fact, no less versions, but Hollywood directors did it easier: the meteorite is to blame for everything, which destroyed the tyrannosaurs and their food. Spectacular, cash, but not the fact that the truth. But everyone saw, everyone was impressed and everyone believes. And ask someone - who killed tyrannosaurs? You will answer - a meteorite! The masses love concreteness and tangibility, unfortunately science, as a rule, cannot give them. Unlike Hollywood. Therefore, we do not know why the Cro-Magnon won in the competition and lost to the Neanderthal. We, the direct heirs of the Cro-Magnon, see the result, but do not understand its causes. There is also an interesting question: what would have happened if the Neanderthal had won?

He was certainly intelligent, but it was a different rational kind, respectively, and he would create a completely different civilization. By the way, typical ideas that a Neanderthal was hairy are categorically incorrect. After researching human lice (yes, reader, lice!), Scientists made an extraordinarily important conclusion — about 3 million years ago, some human-like people got rid of body hair. Three million years of “lousy evolution”, who would have thought, but even here great discoveries are made. Incidentally, the once-widespread notion that a Neanderthal walked "on a half-bent one" is also incorrect. The very specimen, on the basis of studies of which scientists came to such a humiliating conclusion, turned out to be sick ... arthritis. So the Neanderthal was not a hairy, half-humped freak.

Of course, he was very different from Cro-Magnon in appearance: unfortunately, we can analyze basically the skeleton. Neanderthals are characterized by: a larger, but flatter forehead, more massive brow muscles, a large nasal cavity, a larger joint size, a large bell-shaped chest, shorter lower legs and forearms, and wider hips. But he was quite a straight erect, not a "bent man."

By the way, the skulls are very different: in size and shape.



In general, there is a version that originally there were even more reasonable species than two, but as a result only Cro-Magnons remained. Of course, when it is a question of “war”, it does not mean war in its modern sense. Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals did not plan any military operations on a large scale, did not draw up "strategic plans", did not analyze the course of the battle for "fortress Europe." There was then that, and could not be. Conditions are not yet ripe for a full-fledged war. But, nevertheless, the war went on: two reasonable species, occupying almost the same ecological niche, claiming the same resources.

Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal must inevitably collide. And this inevitably led to "armed confrontation." Moreover, the constant armed confrontation: both types had a sufficiently developed brain to analyze the situation and look for ways to successfully fight the enemy (in this location), and throughout his life. And since they were very different in appearance, they were automatically alien to each other, which made the compromise unlikely. This very confrontation lasted for many thousands or even tens of thousands of years. During this time, the climate in Europe has repeatedly changed, the flora and fauna changed (partially). But the struggle continued. Moreover, according to the results of the excavations, it can be assumed that this was not a “one goal game”. Sometimes a Cro-Magnon won, sometimes a Neanderthal took revenge. In the same caves you can find: Cro-Magnon layer, Neanderthal, again Cro-Magnon and so on several times (while in the Cro-Magnon layer one can find the gnawed bones of Neanderthals and vice versa!). (Do not read this article for a dream coming).

A less tolerant domestic author wrote on this subject the results of such excavations: "Apparently, there was some kind of terrible struggle here." It is rather difficult to build versions and invent hypotheses about what exactly happened there, but, apparently, really - the struggle took place. And perhaps a long life side by side with another intelligent species (not at all peaceful and not cloudless), for tens of thousands of years, left in our memory indelible collective memories. Perhaps those “orcs” are exactly “from there”. Although, I repeat, this is just a hypothesis (about the orcs).

So not everything was so peaceful and serene with this very "evolution of reasonable man." As we all understand, a predator (even the most terrible) is just a predator. He just hunts to find food. While another intelligent species is a much more serious threat. He, too, can unite in “organized groups”, make plans, and complex and insidious, attack suddenly, even without experiencing a shortage of food. And in general, initially the victory of the Cro-Magnon was not due to "one hundred percent". The result could be different. And I would sit now a distant descendant of Neanderthals and contemptuously looked at the too fragile skeleton of a Cro-Magnon loser on a computer monitor (black and white, with large, such uneven pixels and without broadband Internet).

Author:
Photos used:
http://voisins-voisines-grand-paris.fr/
93 comments
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 5 2016 12: 07
    +6
    Anthropology, of course, a serious matter. But a lot is built on guesses and assumptions.
    1. Sensatus
      Sensatus April 5 2016 12: 09
      +16
      Battle for Europe: Neanderthal vs. Cro-Magnon
      The material looks very fresh in the "News" section.
      1. Pravdarm
        Pravdarm April 5 2016 12: 11
        +2
        Quote: Sensatus
        The material looks very fresh in the "News" section.

        Quote: author
        We all studied human evolution in biology classes.
        As far as I remember, it was in history lessons.
      2. volot-voin
        volot-voin April 5 2016 14: 26
        +6
        Neanderthals probably somewhere, grabbed tolerance, began to talk about human rights and allowed aggressive strangers to their lands.)))
        1. andj61
          andj61 April 5 2016 20: 13
          +2
          Quote: volot-voin
          Neanderthals probably somewhere, grabbed tolerance, began to talk about human rights and allowed aggressive strangers to their lands.)))

          Exactly - they picked up tolerance, and at leisure they ate the bones of those towards whom this tolerance was allowed. bully
          Although in those days, cannibalism was not considered unusual. Yes, and representatives of their kind, I suppose to let havchik was very simple! winked
    2. tiredwithall
      tiredwithall April 5 2016 12: 12
      +2
      On the bones and guesses.
      1. Corporal Valera
        Corporal Valera April 5 2016 12: 33
        +37
        two intelligent species fought among themselves a fierce struggle, at least in Europe.

        You fsё lying! The battle for Europe was fought by three reasonable species:
        Neanderthals, Cro-Magnons and Ukrainians! Moreover, thanks to innate courage and dexterity, the latter won. They bit the meat that the Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons produced, after which they disdained to eat it. In combat clashes, Ukrainians lured themselves into boilers and beat each other with sticks. In general, Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons died out due to a decrease in food supply and with laughter. So the Ukrainians won the interspecific struggle and became the ancestors of Europeans. Learn the story!
        1. revnagan
          revnagan April 5 2016 12: 54
          +11
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          So the Ukrainians won the interspecific struggle and became the ancestors of Europeans.

          Even Ukrainians were able to bounce high. This gave them an advantage - it helped to notice the enemy earlier, here!
        2. Olezhek
          April 5 2016 12: 55
          +6
          You fsё lying! The battle for Europe was fought by three reasonable species:
          Neanderthals, Cro-Magnon and Ukrainians!


          Protoukry komrad protoukry, protoukrus vulgaris ... to be precise ... they are the creators of the Tripoli culture - the basis of European civilization.
          1. max73
            max73 April 5 2016 13: 21
            +1
            oh ... one more shines with humor ...)))
        3. max73
          max73 April 5 2016 12: 59
          -3
          like, humor?) Well, if so, then unsuccessful) .... apparently, you are a superman ...))
          1. Lelek
            Lelek April 5 2016 13: 25
            +5
            Quote: max73
            max73


            "Plato, you are offended, so you are wrong." And he either has humor or is absent, but "humor type" does not exist at all.
    3. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 April 5 2016 12: 38
      +1
      Quote: aszzz888
      Anthropology, of course, a serious matter

      I completely agree with you ...
      Quote: aszzz888
      But a lot is built on guesses and assumptions

      I agree. Some statements are more than controversial ... But even the coverage of contemporary events to us is often based on frank invention, and even banal lies. So be surprised that something is being thought out about the very times when not only there were no historians and journalists, even writing did not exist as such. But sooner or later, science will deal with all the inconsistencies, but politics never ...
      1. engineer74
        engineer74 April 5 2016 13: 04
        +3
        Quote: Chicot 1
        ... But science will sooner or later deal with all inconsistencies, but politics never ...

        “History is a policy turned to the past!” (C), I don’t remember who said it, so science, of course, will “figure it out” with all the inconsistencies, and more than once! wink

        Thanks to the author! It is read cheerfully and intelligibly! good But the article, as news, was a couple of hundred thousand years late ... what
      2. ydjin
        ydjin April 5 2016 13: 06
        0
        Quote: Chicot 1
        Quote: aszzz888
        Anthropology, of course, a serious matter

        I completely agree with you ...
        Quote: aszzz888
        But a lot is built on guesses and assumptions

        I agree. Some statements are more than controversial ... But even the coverage of contemporary events to us is often based on frank invention, and even banal lies. So be surprised that something is being thought out about those very times when it was not like there were no historians with journalists ...

        Thank God that there were no journalists then, often they are the main distorters of events!
        PS Do not consider it a sweeping accusation, our Russian military journalists, I am delighted with your affairs! But some journalist whispers who dishonor the title of journalist! It’s time to introduce the status of the College of Journalists to filter out scum! Although corruption will penetrate there ...
    4. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 5 2016 12: 57
      +10
      Quote: aszzz888
      Anthropology, of course, a serious matter. But a lot is built on guesses and assumptions.

      I have a friend - a spilled Neanderthal man. It seems that not everyone has eaten.
      Naturally, he:
      1. AlexSK
        AlexSK April 5 2016 13: 16
        +8
        ---------------------
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. mitrich
          mitrich April 5 2016 13: 47
          +2
          No, this is not Neanderthal, not that species, this is Australopithecus. lol
      2. Captain nemo
        Captain nemo April 5 2016 15: 38
        +1
        Quote: Gray Brother
        I have a friend - a spilled Neanderthal man. It seems that not everyone ate. Naturally, he:

        But could it be more detailed about him - his height, body structure, whether he had open fractures, if so, what was his bone thickness. If the percentage of its DNA is above 4%, then this may be of interest to science, and you will become the discoverer of something, because you noticed one feature in someone else.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    5. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN April 6 2016 13: 46
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      But a lot is built on guesses and assumptions.

      All anthropology is built on assumptions. And even on lies. Moreover, often on lies with fraud.
      And teachers have no more rights than creationism to teach children in the school of "evolution".
      I repeat to those who are not in the know. Scientific evidence of the evolution and descent of man from a monkey does not exist at the moment. All the previous "evidence" was exposed as fraud and fraud. There are simply no others.
      The experiment with the creation in the laboratory of a "primordial soup of amino acids" was recognized by the authors themselves as incorrect. That is, impracticable, at the moment, anyway.
      So, we continue to fantasize on this subject. And we are waiting for evidence from scientists.
      "I know that I do not know anything. But others do not even know this" - Socrates
  2. tiredwithall
    tiredwithall April 5 2016 12: 10
    +11
    "The trouble is that modern man is accustomed to an abundance of information, but this abundance by historical standards has arisen quite and very recently."

    The trouble is rather different: with a huge amount of information, the awareness of a person as such is steadily falling. So 10 - 12% of the inhabitants of the United States (the most developed economy in the world) live on flat land, around which the sun goes. And here it doesn’t matter what paleontologists call you - Neadertal, erectus or obvislus.
    1. Pravdarm
      Pravdarm April 5 2016 12: 15
      +6
      Well, with the TV remote control
      and tyrnet, on the couch,
      in a cozy room with a beer drinks
      all better than with sticks and stones,
      campfire in the meadow
      with a mammoth piece! wassat

      Even sitting on the encyclopedia! laughing
      1. max73
        max73 April 5 2016 13: 20
        0
        in-in ...)))))))
    2. Viktor_24reg
      Viktor_24reg April 5 2016 12: 34
      +2
      This is where such information about 10-12%?
  3. mamont5
    mamont5 April 5 2016 12: 16
    +6
    “Of course, when we speak of“ war, ”we do not mean war in its modern sense. The Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals did not plan military actions on a large scale, did not draw up“ strategic plans ”, did not analyze the course of the battle for the“ fortress Europe ” "

    Of course, there was no "world war". There were just clashes between different tribes. I think that they did not really understand who belongs to what species. Not "from our tribe", it means a stranger, it means an enemy (or food) - to kill him. Cro-Magnons fought with Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals with Neanderthals. Well, in skirmishes with another species, Neanderthals lost technologically and less often emerged victors. Here is the result.
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. April 5 2016 13: 31
      +4
      Quote: mamont5
      Of course, there was no "world war". There were just clashes between different tribes. I think that they did not really understand who belongs to what species.

      Yes, most likely it was. This can be seen from human history when within the species struggle in the course of civilizational development constantly leads to fights for destruction. Although the emphasis on the stranger still had to be, that is, 2 times (not of my tribe and not of my kind). Winning Cro-Magnon in my opinion should be sought in the speed of information processing and decision making, which shows a technological advantage. Since the competition was between species with consciousness What can be trivially affected by metabolic rate. Well, of course, the software level. Outwardly, this is expressed in more emotions and their severity. Emotions are, in principle, behavioral programs selected by evolution (basically I want). And sharpness, of course, also matters. And as for physical weakness, at that time it is enough to inflict a decent wound and to retreat, and the wounded person has every chance to die. If in this regard, remember that the average life expectancy is about 20 years.
      1. pimen
        pimen April 5 2016 13: 43
        +1
        rather, stupidly, survives the one who has more surviving offspring
        1. Yuri Y.
          Yuri Y. April 5 2016 15: 12
          0
          Quote: pimen
          rather, stupidly, survives the one who has more surviving offspring

          This is a consequence of certain reasons, which are discussed.
      2. andj61
        andj61 April 5 2016 20: 22
        +1
        Quote: Yuri Ya.
        Winning Cro-Magnon in my opinion should be sought in the speed of information processing and decision making, which shows a technological advantage. Since the competition was between species with consciousness What can be trivially affected by metabolic rate.

        The "conquest" of Europe by the Cro-Magnons, as indicated in the article, took about 10 years. If the matter was in the metabolic rate or in the speed of information processing (and, as a result, more advanced weapons, as well as streamlined interaction between individuals), then this process would take less time. And here, it seems, the Cro-Magnons simply crushed them with a mass for 000 years ...
        By the way, I still didn’t understand why it was concluded that Neanderthals did not leave cave paintings? Both lived in the same caves, replacing each other many times. But for some reason, it is believed that the drawings were left only by Cro-Magnons ... what
        It smacks of some chauvinism. repeat
    2. Alexey Lobanov
      Alexey Lobanov April 5 2016 19: 33
      +1
      Quote: mamont5
      Both Cro-Magnons and Cro-Magnons fought and Neanderthals with Neanderthals.


      Interspecies crossing is impossible (with rare plant exceptions), I still remember this from the medical institute. This is the problem of the Neanderthals. They could not have a common offspring with the Cro-Magnons. Hence - a war of similar brain species for destruction. And, from here came the phrase "love will save the world" laughing
      1. andj61
        andj61 April 5 2016 20: 27
        +3
        Quote: Alexey Lobanov
        Interspecific crossbreeding is impossible (with rare plant exceptions), I still remember this at the medical institute. This is the problem of Neanderthals. They could not have offspring with Cro-Magnons

        Here, apparently, such rare exceptions take place in these 1-4% of the genotype with genes of Neanderthals. I once read a long time ago that Neanderthals have a completely different type of skull, and a child from a Neanderthal - even in the case of conception and gestation - a human woman (Cro-Magnon) simply could not give birth. In Neanderthals, there is practically no "fontanelle" as such, the skull is formed from bones, the head cannot be compressed. The pelvic bones in women should be wider, etc.
        1. Alexey Lobanov
          Alexey Lobanov April 5 2016 21: 10
          +1
          Quote: andj61
          Apparently, such rare exceptions take place in these 1-4% of the genotype with the genes of Neanderthals.


          At the same time, I did not hear something about the percentages of Cro-Magnon genes in the Neanderthal genotype. If I'm not mistaken, this indicates that the Neanderthals were still the ANCESTORS of the Cro-Magnons (even if they were preserved in large numbers during the heyday of the Cro-Magnon culture), and not a parallel branch.
          1. andj61
            andj61 April 5 2016 21: 31
            +1
            Quote: Alexey Lobanov
            At the same time, I did not hear something about the percentages of Cro-Magnon genes in the Neanderthal genotype.

            Cro-Magnons are practically you and me. And the percentages of the Cro-Magnon genes among Neanderthals cannot be calculated - they all died out.
            But in the literature there was information about mestizos - Cro-Magnons mixed with Neanderthals and vice versa. Even the skulls of such mestizos were exhibited - with signs of both species. Although they are relatively few.
  4. guzik007
    guzik007 April 5 2016 12: 19
    +11
    By the way, it is proved that one of the four percent of the genes that we got from Neanderthals is responsible for red hair. Maybe that's why they don’t like redheads (on a subconscious level?)
    Yes, and it’s not a fact that they have become extinct. I know one at least. Even in the State Duma sits: =)
    1. sisa29
      sisa29 April 5 2016 12: 40
      +2
      Successfully Duma acquaintance remembered good
  5. Lukich
    Lukich April 5 2016 12: 23
    +4
    very interesting and informative. thanks to the author!
  6. Lopatov
    Lopatov April 5 2016 12: 26
    +2
    Pretty outdated point of view.

    Now scientists are inclined to the version that the eruption in Italy was the reason for the disappearance of Neanderthals. Phlegreian fields. In Romania, a meter of ash. Traces of the eruption even near Rostov in sedimentary rocks were found.

    In short, Neanderthals got what the Americans can get in the event of the eruption of the Yellowstone Super Volcano.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon April 5 2016 13: 01
      +2
      Somehow these bindings of everything to earthquakes cause great doubts
  7. Monos
    Monos April 5 2016 12: 30
    +12
    Neanderthals, say, Cro-Magnons?
  8. Alexez
    Alexez April 5 2016 12: 32
    +7
    The article is written with humor. And about throwing weapons, I think the answer is simple. On short legs in case of a miss, to escape from a fierce beast is much more difficult. So the Neanderthal man did not let his spear out of his hands, hoping only for his dexterity and strength.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair April 5 2016 13: 10
      +2
      Quote: Alexez
      The article is written with humor. And about throwing weapons, I think the answer is simple. On short legs in case of a miss, to escape from a fierce beast is much more difficult. So the Neanderthal man did not let his spear out of his hands, hoping only for his dexterity and strength.

      what And what prevented me from carrying two spears with such physics? I think there is something else here, maybe the structure of the skeleton did not allow far and quick to throw spears, or whatever. Regarding the fact that Neanderthals only large and ferocious animals beat in my opinion an invention, one might think in the north only mammoths and bears with saber-toothed were found.
      1. Alexez
        Alexez April 5 2016 13: 25
        +2
        And what prevented me from carrying two spears with such physics?
        for the same reason why people still go hunting with one gun, and not with a whole arsenal.
        yes, and here it is - a spear for throwing it is very different from a spear for hand-to-hand combat ... both in weight and balance and tip - therefore if you are strong and agile, you will bet on what is in your hands and not on your will case.
        Regarding the fact that Neanderthals only large and ferocious animals beat in my opinion an invention, one might think in the north only mammoths and bears with saber-toothed were found.

        Well, imagine a chicken, and now imagine that you need to pierce it with a spear despite the fact that it does not let you closer than 5 meters (and this is a poultry, not wild).
        Now imagine how it would be easier to take this very chicken with onions.
        Moreover, Cro-Magnon dogs had dogs - they were handy to hunt with.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair April 5 2016 19: 56
          +1
          Quote: Alexez
          yes, and here it is - a spear for throwing it is very different from a spear for hand-to-hand combat ... both in weight and balance and tip - therefore if you are strong and agile, you will bet on what is in your hands and not on your will case.

          A sling was also invented hundreds of thousands of years ago, just like a spear, just by observing others - the scouts would have informed their tribe about how well foreigners hunt, there wasn’t always a direct clash right away.
          If you are strong and agile, then your spear will penetrate the victim deeper into the body, or it may pierce through laughing Here, either physics, the structure of the skeleton, or something with brains, could not adapt - they did not want to adopt, try other people's skills.
          And by the way, they don’t go hunting with a gun with a bayonet and one cartridge, they take a lot of cartridges and a knife is necessary.
      2. Cartalon
        Cartalon April 5 2016 13: 47
        +2
        There is a version that physiologically could not throw spears
      3. andj61
        andj61 April 5 2016 20: 37
        +2
        Quote: Corsair
        Regarding the fact that Neanderthals only large and ferocious animals beat in my opinion an invention, one might think in the north only mammoths and bears with saber-toothed were found.

        In the Bryansk region near the village. Yudinovo unearthed the parking lot of an ancient man, as they said - mammoth hunters. I have been to the museum several times - there an excavation right under the roof was let down. The dwelling was made of mammoth bones, and mammoth bones were drowned instead of firewood - then there was a tundra steppe, there were no trees. But the fact that mammoths were hunted is no evidence. Bones were collected from dead animals. And they hunted birds and small animals, fished.
  9. avva2012
    avva2012 April 5 2016 12: 35
    +3

    Almost the same, of course. But on S.P. Kapitsa look and listen, always a pleasure.
  10. dauria
    dauria April 5 2016 12: 36
    +1
    “Apparently, there was some kind of terrible struggle”


    Of course it was. So always, if there are two species claiming to be the same resources, and most importantly, are not able to interbreed by definition. But it turns out that they could not. Interesting donkeys and horses?
    Here is one snag. A similar thing can be observed in Australia, where Europeans brought animals, and they began to compete with marsupials. The catch is that two species (Neanderthals and those others) could not develop side by side - there is a trigger effect in biology (even from two equal species, one always crushes the other) So, they developed in different territories, and then clashed.
    The question is, where can I find individual corners? And for a very long period, thousands of a hundred years?
    1. Olezhek
      April 5 2016 12: 39
      +3
      So always, if there are two species, claiming the same resources, and most importantly, they can not interbreed with each other by definition


      But that is not so clear ...
      It seems that we have a couple of percent of their genes ...
      1. dauria
        dauria April 5 2016 13: 55
        +1
        But that is not so clear ...


        Well, then they would have mixed up, and the whole business ... Would have turned out decent mutts smile No, that doesn't work either. Apparently, the cross progeny were worse than the original samples.
        1. Captain nemo
          Captain nemo April 5 2016 16: 00
          0
          Quote: dauria
          Well, then they would have mixed up, and the whole business ...

          Here it is definitely impossible to try on the present day, in which one can "mix" not by genetic external signs, but purely because of money. Then no one had money, for that they had a struggle in all their glory for the female and the continuation of the genus. I suspect that in those days, the main indicator was not who steals food from others more, but who hunts better and can provide food for his wife and children. That is, only the external physical data of a person and his mental ability to use his physical strength in the fight against other species so within his own species. And it would be better, of course, for a beautiful female of those times, so that he was as beautiful as herself, then they would have beautiful and healthy children.
          1. dauria
            dauria April 5 2016 16: 46
            +1
            It would be better, of course, for the beautiful female of those times, so that he was as beautiful as she herself


            Well, in those days, I think the female didn’t choose at all. (The floor of the planet still lives like that). And the male, re ... hat (sorry, in any other way sad ) all who managed to recapture from the rest. And then the natural selection of offspring for vitality and to diseases, and to struggle, and to herd fitness.
            I'm talking about something else - marsupial wolves and ordinary wolves cannot develop in the same territory and occupy the same place in the food chain. Unstable equilibrium - will slide to one kind. Another will have to "retrain as a house manager" by moving someone, or disappear.
            There is also competition between herds within the same species (intra-herd mechanisms are perfected and selected) - but here the "heredity" is also common, (and not so much genes) is stored in behavior and habits, and is transmitted during upbringing. This does not interfere with taking females from someone else's herd.
            This does not fit in any way - two reasonable species cannot develop side by side. Unless some in America, others in Europe.
            1. Captain nemo
              Captain nemo April 5 2016 19: 11
              0

              Well, in those days, I think the female didn’t choose at all. (The floor of the planet still lives like that). And to the male, re ... hat (excuse me, in any other way :( sad) of all those whom he managed to recapture from the others.

              In our country, so far, not the bride chooses, but her parents (but this is not so casual, for example, the parents of both should find out if their births did not intersect before the 9th or 12th knee). But this does not mean that without them she would not choose anyone else for herself. In my opinion, she-wolves do not surrender to the leader, only because he wanted her and she would rather prefer to grapple with him than to surrender. For some reason, I think that if you have a spear in your hand (did they lie there thinking about tolerance - again, as it is now, if cannibalism among people disappeared not so long ago by temporary standards) or lower a stone collapse onto a path along which someone is walking, and a weaker one could well bang a stronger one to the joy of the rest of the tribe in a hungry winter, chopping it and throwing it into the boiler, if there was a reason. In natural selection among people, unlike animals, not always the competing forces were the main ones, for example, the most beautiful and healthy ones could easily be brought to the sacrificial altar to their gods, spirits, and idols for the sake of their faith and appeasing their gods according to their cults and rituals.
            2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair April 5 2016 19: 58
      +1
      Quote: dauria
      The question is, where can I find individual corners? And for a very long period, thousands of a hundred years?

      The continents did not always dock with each other, and crossing even a not very wide sea without ships on rafts is a very serious and dangerous event
  11. Cartalon
    Cartalon April 5 2016 12: 44
    +3
    The presence of genes of Neanderthals, and different ones, says that it wasn’t such a war
    1. Olezhek
      April 5 2016 12: 48
      +1
      In war, not only kill ...
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 5 2016 18: 03
      +3
      "The presence of Neanderthal genes in our country, and different ones, says
      that it wasn't such a war "////

      There was a small percentage of Cro-Magnon and mixed marriages.
      with Neanderthals, and with Denisovans, and even with the remnants of the Heidelberg population
      great people. Gene analysis beautifully tracks this.
      He received such mixed marriages as we received immunity from a number of viruses,
      and vice versa, some genetic diseases.
      1. Olezhek
        April 5 2016 20: 06
        0
        There was a small percentage of Cro-Magnon and mixed marriages.
        with Neanderthals, and with Denisovs, ............ some genetic diseases


        It seems like yes.
        There is such a topic.
    3. Corsair
      Corsair April 5 2016 20: 05
      0
      Quote: Cartalon
      The presence of genes of Neanderthals, and different ones, says that it wasn’t such a war

      request Maybe just the Cro-Magnon genes turned out to be stronger, more resilient, so to speak, livable when passed on to generations, plus due to the mild warm climate - more common in mass, and it already turned out like a fly in the ointment in a barrel with honey or vice versa.
  12. 2s1122
    2s1122 April 5 2016 12: 46
    0
    Yes, an interesting article. But to know, you definitely need to be present in person at this moment recourse
    1. Olezhek
      April 5 2016 13: 00
      +1
      Personally - dangerous - you can also "die out" am

      Better then, study the bones ...
  13. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch April 5 2016 12: 48
    +2
    1-4% is genetic incompatibility, then where did the proto-eggs come from, and what do Ukrainian anthropologists-genetics think about this? Just in their area was the main batch. At first, the Cro-Magnons extinguished the Neanderthals in Europe, now the opposite is happening. Indeed, two bears do not live in the same den, if I were not Cro-Magnon.
  14. IT-Prof
    IT-Prof April 5 2016 13: 11
    +2
    An interesting, informative article, not at all as unambiguous (in the good sense of the word) as broadcasts on similar topics, for example, with Discovery, Explorer ..
    After reading the title of the article, to be honest, I thought that it would be about refugees :)

    ... the skeleton of a Cro-Magnon loser too fragile on a computer monitor (black and white, with large such, uneven pixels and without broadband Internet).
    This is 5!
  15. Lecha57
    Lecha57 April 5 2016 13: 13
    +1
    Europpa, as such, no longer exists! - She has lost all her dignity. Now he will work for the public, with all his moral, democratic "Western values"
  16. gozmosZh
    gozmosZh April 5 2016 14: 14
    +5
    article about the genocide of Neanderthals
    1. guzik007
      guzik007 April 5 2016 15: 25
      +1
      article about the genocide of Neanderthals
      ---------------------------------------
      And who said they disappeared? Drive up to any general store closer to 10, as if you’ll meet a couple of
  17. nemec55
    nemec55 April 5 2016 14: 23
    +1
    The article is cool, but the author is joking

    At that time, everything was like an adult.
    So the Neanderthals were by no means “whipping boys”

    In this, someone doubted something ???? laughing
    1. Olezhek
      April 5 2016 14: 28
      0
      Sometimes they write: retarded and primitive Neanderthals, who like have were to lose ...
    2. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch April 9 2016 15: 37
      0
      Quote: nemec55
      The article is cool, but the author is joking

      At that time, everything was like an adult.
      So the Neanderthals were by no means “whipping boys”

      In this, someone doubted something ???? laughing


      The article is generally intolerant, written for excitement. Incites interspecific hatred. Well, I already hate Neanderthals, grab a hammer right away, every day I see them at work. Come home, take a look at the news - again about the Neanderthal people.
  18. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 April 5 2016 15: 49
    +2
    Quote: Olezhek
    You fsё lying! The battle for Europe was fought by three reasonable species:
    Neanderthals, Cro-Magnon and Ukrainians!


    Protoukry komrad protoukry, protoukrus vulgaris ... to be precise ... they are the creators of the Tripoli culture - the basis of European civilization.

    protoukrus vulgaris is a new word in science! To you +!
    1. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch April 10 2016 19: 05
      0
      Quote: Nikolay71
      protoukrus vulgaris is a new word in science! To you +!


      Initially, they were erektus, like everyone else, well, they are special, at birth they were not shouting "mom!" , and "Mom, give a sisyu, and more!" , since then, they love to suck on a ball, well, at least something, well, at least a black man has an obstruction, just to suck on a ball ..., a quirk of evolution, no, DEVolutions, but will never become sapiens. I agree with you, colleague, they are hereditary vulgaris.
  19. hartlend
    hartlend April 5 2016 15: 55
    +1
    If we can restore the history of the XXVII Congress of the CPSU in colors and colors, then the situation is not so rosy with the Second Congress of the RSDLP. It is all the more problematic to hear Cicero's speeches.

    Here is a sane statement by the author. Today we do not know what is going on in the warehouse, but we are trying to figure out what happened hundreds of thousands of years ago. The author's desire to reveal the essence of the issue is understandable and the article is meaningful. But is it possible to trust Western "scientists" who make discoveries to please the conjuncture. Recently, we are increasingly convinced that all areas of Western society are permeated with lies. Including media, sports, science and culture. I would like to draw the attention of those who are interested in this issue to the books and video speeches by Georgy Sidorov. He describes the emergence of modern humanity and individual peoples. According to his version, the "ancestors" of modern man are not our ancestors at all. These are the surviving and feral remnants of previous civilizations after a global catastrophe on earth (natural or man-made). I tend to trust him more in this matter. For those who want to check the Akashic Chronicles themselves, nobody canceled.
  20. Captain nemo
    Captain nemo April 5 2016 16: 14
    +3
    It’s like with the extinction of dinosaurs, in fact, there are no less versions, but the Hollywood directors acted easier: the meteorite, which destroyed the tyrannosaurs and their food, is to blame. Spectacular, cash, but not the fact that the truth. But everyone saw, everyone was impressed and everyone believed. And ask someone - who killed tyrannosaurs? They will answer you - a meteorite! The masses love concreteness and tangibility; unfortunately, science, as a rule, cannot give them. Unlike Hollywood.

    This is not entirely true, there is one very strong evidence that has not yet been rejected by anyone. I learned about him from the magazine "technology-youth" of the late 80s.
    The fact is that the entire surface of our planet, at some depth, contains a very thin layer of Iridium, the structure is the same as that of meteorites. And this layer is higher than all the found dinosaur skeletons. A prize was even announced to anyone who finds a dinosaur skeleton above the Iridium layer, which, in my opinion, has still not been issued to anyone. Thus, the production scenes of Hollywood about the fall of a meteorite 60-70 million years ago, from which the dinosaurs became extinct, have a completely scientific basis.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon April 5 2016 20: 15
      0
      Well, like dinosaurs, they became birds, and here they are not on top of the iridium layer
    2. andj61
      andj61 April 5 2016 20: 48
      0
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      Thus, Hollywood staged scenes about the fall of a meteorite 60-70 million years ago, from which the dinosaurs became extinct.

      If we take into account that, according to some data, the atmosphere was then an order of magnitude greater, and its pressure was almost 10 atm. current ones. Naturally, under such conditions, giants of tens and hundreds of tons in weight could exist, and the vegetation was much richer. Collision with a large asteroid or a small planetoid and could lead to the loss of most of the atmosphere and the death of all large animals.
  21. Cossack Ermak
    Cossack Ermak April 5 2016 21: 45
    -2
    There are some inaccuracies and facts missed by the author.
    1. And the man of reason and the Neanderdeltals both came out of Africa. Just some earlier than others later.
    2. The inhabitants of Africa do not have genes from Nyarndeltals at all.
    3. The Nyarndeltals lived in Siberia and the Altai and in Central Asia.
    4. Genes of the Niadeltals are in the genes of the American Indians.
    5. The Niardeltals survived several great glaciations. So climate change is unacceptable here. They perfectly adapted.
    6. 39000 years ago, the number of the latter declined sharply. It was at this time that a supervolcano exploded in the territory next to modern Italian Naples. C4. So, the layer of ash from the eruption, even in Romania, was more than a meter and reached the Ural Mountains.
    My opinion is not a war with intelligent man ruined our kindred.
    1. Cossack Ermak
      Cossack Ermak April 6 2016 01: 49
      +1
      More facts.
      1. The first oldest musical instrument found is a bone flute from Slovakia about 40000 years ago. She gave out 3 notes from an octave and you understood who created it. Neanderthals made toys, painted on the walls of caves. They developed the speech department of the brain. So, the version that they were backward in terms of culture and communication is untenable.
  22. andj61
    andj61 April 5 2016 22: 09
    0
    Quote: Cossack Ermak
    My opinion is not a war with intelligent man ruined our kindred.

    The fact is that the last known Neanderthals lived recently - about 5-7 thousand years ago. Maybe later, only these sites have not yet been found. So that catastrophe is hardly of great importance in their extinction as a species. But the appearance of more progressive tools — copper, bronze, and even new methods of processing stone, a lance-thrower, and onions (not even as a weapon, but as a means for producing fire by friction — didn’t have another way, iron didn’t know) in modern man could well have served as the basis for genocide. And with cannibalism in the absence of easy ways of food, none of these species disdained. So Neanderthals could well be one of the objects of hunting.
    1. Cossack Ermak
      Cossack Ermak April 6 2016 01: 39
      0
      The last remains of Neanderthals found in Gibraltar. They lived about 18000-20000 years ago.
    2. Olezhek
      April 6 2016 09: 12
      0
      But the emergence of more advanced tools - copper, bronze, and even new ways of treating stone, spear throwers, onions (not even as a tool, but as a means for producing fire by friction - there was no other way, iron was not known) in modern man It could well be the basis of genocide.


      Maybe you are right. It sounds logical.
  23. Allax
    Allax April 5 2016 22: 50
    0
    For some reason, none of the commentators considered such a reason for the Cro-Magnon victory as the ability to use throwing weapons. But this is a serious help in the war. Imagine a crowd of Neanderthals and a crowd of Cro-Magnon people each having 20 snouts. Cro-Magnon threw 20 copies or stones, and 5-10 Neanderthals have already been disabled. And if you get a hold of it, then until the Neanderthals reach the Cro-Magnon people at the distance of a blow with a club, then you can have time to light up stones with Neanderthals twice.
    1. Cossack Ermak
      Cossack Ermak April 6 2016 01: 52
      0
      Why didn’t they know how to throw? They have very strongly developed shoulder blades; they had strong long arms, which proved to be promoted by propelling movements.
      1. Olezhek
        April 6 2016 09: 38
        0
        Why they did not know how to throw?


        There is a version that they (Neanderthals) basically could not raise their hands up.
  24. Trinity
    Trinity April 5 2016 23: 36
    0
    And, if both species survived, it is interesting how we would get along with the descendants of Neanderthals in the modern world.
  25. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 April 6 2016 11: 15
    0
    The hypothesis of the simultaneous existence of two types of homo sapiens is not confirmed by any single fact, it is nothing more than a foolish invention of the profane.
    Homo sapiens appeared on Earth more than 5 million years ago, most likely 10-15 million years ago and not in Africa at all.
    In some arid regions of Africa, sometimes there were conditions conducive to the conservation and fossilization of the bones of hominids. That's all that follows from the finds of human remains in Africa.
    1. Olezhek
      April 6 2016 12: 19
      0
      The hypothesis of the simultaneous existence of two types of homo sapiens is not confirmed by any single fact, it is nothing more than a foolish invention of the profane.


      Komrad, on the time machine will we fold or how?
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 April 6 2016 15: 50
        0
        Quote: Olezhek
        The hypothesis of the simultaneous existence of two types of homo sapiens is not confirmed by any single fact, it is nothing more than a foolish invention of the profane.


        Komrad, on the time machine will we fold or how?


        As soon as they prove that Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons are different species, and not different phenotypes (like a Negro, a Mongolian European), we immediately throw ourselves back and forth in the past.
        (The totality of all body attributes (morphological, anatomical, functional, etc.) makes up the phenotype. During the life of the organism, its phenotype can change, but the genotype remains unchanged. This is because the phenotype is formed under the influence of the genotype and environmental conditions).
  26. Turkir
    Turkir April 6 2016 16: 08
    0
    Normal article and not outdated at all.
    I personally doubt the message that Cro-Magnons "went to Europe from Africa."
    "A less tolerant domestic author wrote about the results of such excavations:" Apparently, there was some kind of terrible struggle going on. "

    Why is this mysteriousness and what does "less tolerant" mean? These words belong to Lev Gumilyov.
    As for mixed marriages, I write from memory that a Cro-Magnon girl could give birth from a Neanderthal, but not vice versa. So in us there are genes of Neanderthals.
    Anglo-Saxons probably have more than others. Enough to look at Cameron.
    1. Olezhek
      April 6 2016 19: 46
      +1
      Why is this mysteriousness and what does "less tolerant" mean? These words belong to Lev Gumilyov.


      Perhaps I met them in a popular paperback with a paperback 8 years ago ... I don’t naturally remember the author. repeat
      Gumilev read a lot, did not meet about Neanderthals request
      1. Turkir
        Turkir April 7 2016 08: 48
        0
        You raised an interesting topic. There is no complete answer yet. You will be interested to view - https://lenta.ru/news/2016/02/18/gene/
        1. Olezhek
          April 10 2016 18: 47
          0
          looked. yes
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. gozmosZh
    gozmosZh April 6 2016 19: 47
    0
    The mystery of the disappearance of Neanderthals

  29. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 April 9 2016 18: 05
    0
    I liked the article, very intelligible and accurate! good
    Although it would be possible in the History section, and not Opinion in my opinion.

    Quote: volot-voin
    Neanderthals probably somewhere, grabbed tolerance, began to talk about human rights and allowed aggressive strangers to their lands.)))
    Quite the contrary - objective data indicate an incredibly high level of testosterone in Neanderthals, which, combined with tremendous physical strength (they were about 1,5 times stronger than the "sapiens") suggests that they were "dominant predators" and just showed particular aggressiveness.

    Quote: Barkhan
    I repeat to those who are not in the know. Scientific evidence of the evolution and descent of man from a monkey does not exist at the moment. All the previous "evidence" was exposed as fraud and fraud. There are simply no others.
    THAT'S IT !

    Quote: Yuri Ya.
    If in this regard, remember that the average life expectancy is about 20 years.
    Who told you that? Apparently both infants and the elderly consider this? so infant mortality until the 20 century was enormous. But if we take separately the adult ancient people - then the picture is completely different.

    Quote: andj61
    I once read long ago that Neanderthals have a completely different type of skull, and a woman from a Neanderthal - even in the case of conception and bearing - a woman-man (Cro-Magnon) simply could not give birth
    Well, on the contrary, i.e. a Neander woman from a male sapiens could definitely give birth. Therefore, the cross could well be.

    Quote: andj61
    But the fact that mammoths were hunted is no evidence. Bones were collected from dead animals.
    By the way, yes. Killing a mammoth was MUCH more difficult than a modern elephant.

    Quote: Cossack Ermak
    1. And the man of reason and the Neanderdeltals both came out of Africa. Just some earlier than others later.
    2. The inhabitants of Africa do not have genes from Nyarndeltals at all.
    3. The Nyarndeltals lived in Siberia and the Altai and in Central Asia.
    4. Genes of the Niadeltals are in the genes of the American Indians.
    5. The Niardeltals survived several great glaciations. So climate change is unacceptable here. They perfectly adapted.
    6. 39000 years ago, the numbers of the latter declined sharply. It was at this time that the super-volcano exploded
    I will answer briefly and simply - comrade, you are in a clear error. All this is ONLY ASSUMPTIONS, scientifically unsubstantiated. n.2 and n.4 generally nonsense.

    Quote: Allax
    For some reason, none of the commentators considered such a reason for the Cro-Magnon victory as the ability to use throwing weapons. But this is a serious help in the war.
    And this was apparently the MAIN FACTOR OF VICTORY. Of the throwing weapons, Neander had only stones and throwing darts. And according to the latest data, sapiens had not only various types of darts, but slings and bows. They simply shot from a distance Neander, not accepting melee.
  30. Alex1977RUS
    Alex1977RUS 17 November 2017 06: 31
    0
    Quote: Warrior2015
    I liked the article, very intelligible and accurate! good
    Although it would be possible in the History section, and not Opinion in my opinion.

    Quote: volot-voin
    Neanderthals probably somewhere, grabbed tolerance, began to talk about human rights and allowed aggressive strangers to their lands.)))
    Quite the contrary - objective data indicate an incredibly high level of testosterone in Neanderthals, which, combined with tremendous physical strength (they were about 1,5 times stronger than the "sapiens") suggests that they were "dominant predators" and just showed particular aggressiveness.

    Quote: Barkhan
    I repeat to those who are not in the know. Scientific evidence of the evolution and descent of man from a monkey does not exist at the moment. All the previous "evidence" was exposed as fraud and fraud. There are simply no others.
    THAT'S IT !

    Quote: Yuri Ya.
    If in this regard, remember that the average life expectancy is about 20 years.
    Who told you that? Apparently both infants and the elderly consider this? so infant mortality until the 20 century was enormous. But if we take separately the adult ancient people - then the picture is completely different.

    Quote: andj61
    I once read long ago that Neanderthals have a completely different type of skull, and a woman from a Neanderthal - even in the case of conception and bearing - a woman-man (Cro-Magnon) simply could not give birth
    Well, on the contrary, i.e. a Neander woman from a male sapiens could definitely give birth. Therefore, the cross could well be.

    Quote: andj61
    But the fact that mammoths were hunted is no evidence. Bones were collected from dead animals.
    By the way, yes. Killing a mammoth was MUCH more difficult than a modern elephant.

    Quote: Cossack Ermak
    1. And the man of reason and the Neanderdeltals both came out of Africa. Just some earlier than others later.
    2. The inhabitants of Africa do not have genes from Nyarndeltals at all.
    3. The Nyarndeltals lived in Siberia and the Altai and in Central Asia.
    4. Genes of the Niadeltals are in the genes of the American Indians.
    5. The Niardeltals survived several great glaciations. So climate change is unacceptable here. They perfectly adapted.
    6. 39000 years ago, the numbers of the latter declined sharply. It was at this time that the super-volcano exploded
    I will answer briefly and simply - comrade, you are in a clear error. All this is ONLY ASSUMPTIONS, scientifically unsubstantiated. n.2 and n.4 generally nonsense.

    Quote: Allax
    For some reason, none of the commentators considered such a reason for the Cro-Magnon victory as the ability to use throwing weapons. But this is a serious help in the war.
    And this was apparently the MAIN FACTOR OF VICTORY. Of the throwing weapons, Neander had only stones and throwing darts. And according to the latest data, sapiens had not only various types of darts, but slings and bows. They simply shot from a distance Neander, not accepting melee.

    The topic is not at all new, but I will express myself.
    This is a conflict that did not even last thousands of years.
    Hundreds of thousands of years. No throwing weapon is a decisive factor at such intervals. This is not a new tank that quickly decided the outcome of the war.
    There are two main reasons. First, the tribes of Neanderthals, for some reason, did not exceed twenty, thirty individuals. Regardless of ... At least according to available data. The Cro-Magnes, as the reality surrounding us shows, are limited only by the food base. With a power ratio of five - ten - twenty to one, the outcome of a direct collision is clear.
    And the second, more important, key factor. As already written, a Neanderthal female could give birth from a Cro-Magnon man. No Cro-Magnon female from Neanderthal. In fact, this means assimilation. They came, killed the men, captured the females, if necessary, and increased their own tribe. Mestizos, later interbreeding with purebred Cro-Magnons, receive an increasing number of Cro-Magnon genes, and after a few generations the signs of Neanderthals disappear. And so, for tens of thousands of years. Permanent destruction and assimilation, with numerical superiority. We stupidly crushed them mass. And ate.
  31. ando_bor
    ando_bor 25 December 2017 14: 15
    0
    Not being a specialist, I thought about this for several years, looked through the information that scientists have dug up, in general and especially recently.
    It turns out that the Neanderthals were smarter (they have a larger brain) and more adapted to Europe than the Sapiens, because they evolved under these conditions (the ancestors of Neanderthals and Sapiens dispersed somewhere 600 thousand years ago).
    Nevertheless, the sapiens won in the evolutionary race, and the last Neanderthals disappeared somewhere 25 thousand years ago - this is the peak of the last ice age, that is, the period when they would have seemed to have the maximum advantage over the sapiens.
    The brain is a biological device for survival, and the Neo-Standardists took the path of building it, and the sapiens didn’t create social connections the last 200-300 years of evolution back in Africa, giving part of the personal brain to society, the brain is a good thing, but it’s very energy-intensive , carrying it with you, and most importantly feeding it a difficult task, the sapiens had such an opportunity population density with high productivity of landscapes in Africa allowed, it was not necessary for everyone to keep everything inside themselves, powerful social connections arose, a kind of “Wikipedia” from here and decorations are a way of identification, modern hunters, who gather by their beads and feathers in their nose, recognize a person living hundreds of kilometers from them, who have never been seen - who he is and who he accounts for, they exchange all knowledge and experience accordingly. And Neanderthals did not need decorations because of the low population density, with low productivity in harsh territories, they knew no one except their closest neighbors, and everyone had to carry all their brains with them and feed them. The option was won when part of the brains could be given to society, since then this development option has dominated, from 25 thousand years ago, people's personal brains are reduced, not much, but they got rid of ~ 100 cubes.
    And how they won, and yes, in every way, they mixed and clashed, and ate each other. From Neanderthals, 1-4% of modern people left, this is what we took from them useful. But the Cro-Magnon people, in general, are already a product of the mixing of the Sapiens, who also came out of Africa from the Neanderthals. Those sapiens who came out of Africa to the Bushmen are most similar, the Bushmen are their least changed descendants.
    The line of evolution for building up brains has ended, a revolution has taken place, the principle of combining individual brains, albeit slightly smaller, into a single system has prevailed. It continues. I suspect that a new revolution is brewing, somewhere in the digital it is still hiding.