Military Review

Divine Wars: Choir vs Set (part 1)

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For us Christians, God is God! A being of the highest order and occupied with its own “divine problems”. But there were other gods: for example, gods, quite similar to their characters in people in Greek mythology. But what about the situation in ancient Egypt, where most of the gods were animal heads? Were they perfect and deadpan, inaccessible to people, and were they the embodiment of eternity? Or, on the contrary, looked like people, even with their animal heads?



The gods of Egypt not only had animal heads, it was still customary to depict many times more people, which is why they look so impressive on the walls of ancient temples!

Alas, the latter was true. The mythical Egyptian gods were subject to the usual human weaknesses: vainglory and greed, revenge and lies, even lewdness and drunkenness. In addition, they were far from always omnipotent, they themselves could be in the power of magic ... And their desire for power and the struggle for it were included in the legends. Moreover, they even fought with each other! That is, if you follow the ancient Egyptian religion literally, then it should be recognized that once on the Egyptian land raged ... "divine wars"!

One of the most popular stories on this topic can be found in the papyrus "Chester Beat No. XXUMX", first published by Alan Gardiner in 1. Papyrus dates back to the 20th dynasty (1931-1200 BC), then, apparently, literary processing of the mythological cycle occurred, which describes in detail the litigation of the uncle and nephew - two gods - Gore and Seth. Note that this is quite a late period. stories In Egypt, the transformation of images of gods over the millennia has been significant, and if we can see the roots of ancient ideas in the eventful side, then the assessments of one or another character bear traces of the end of the New Age of Egypt.

Their battles can be viewed from the point of view of reflecting historical events and the struggle of the tribes of Upper and Lower Egypt, from the point of view of establishing the patriarchal order of succession, the confrontation of Order and Chaos, finally, as a reflection of the eternal battle of Good and Evil. But the last interpretation seems to be the least likely, since, in the understanding of the ancient Egyptian, neither side was the one or the other.

Red Land - Northern Egypt, White Land - Southern Egypt. Two lands, two gods, two rivals ... What were these gods who, 80 years, according to the myth, fought for the right to get the double crown Ta-meri, as the ancient Egyptians called their country?


Ancient Egyptian gods (from left to right): Gore, Seth, Toth, Khnum, Hathor, Sebek, Ra, Amon, Pta, Anubis, Osiris, Isis.

Red-maned Set, the embodiment of the ferocious heat of the desert, sandstorm, unbridled power, the god of merciless war, throughout the history of Ancient Egypt was one of the gods, the cult of which spread over considerable territory. And at once we will make a reservation that Seth did not personify the eternal evil for the Egyptians, since this role was assigned to the serpent of chaos - Apophus - with which solar Ra fights nightly. At the same time, Seth, being a constant companion of Ra during his journey through the Duat, always helps him in this battle. Moreover, Seth is the only god who alone can cope with Apophis, which, as we shall see, has greatly complicated Gore’s inheritance of his father Osiris.

The emergence of the cult of Set in Egypt can be attributed to pre-dynastic times. His amulets and images belong to the ancient times of the Badari culture, they are in Nagad, Su, but the center of the cult of Set was Ombos. However, in Lower Egypt, his temples found a place - in the north-east of Egypt (in the 14 nome), Seth was worshiped in the lost Per-Ramses. One of the first known images of Set can be seen on the ritual mace of the king of Upper Egypt - Zara (better known as the king of Scorpio, 3100 BC). In ancient times, he was considered the brother and friend of the Elder Choir, Seth personified the night, and Choir - the day. Both gods gave the dead friendly help; among other things, they installed and kept the ladder along which the dead rise from the earth to the heavens, helped to climb it.

In the days of the II dynasty, the name and symbolism of Set appears on the stelae of the pharaohs along with the name of the falcon Choir, which indicates the equality of these gods. And in later times, the union of the names of Horus and Seth symbolized royal power, the union of Upper and Lower Egypt. In a series of images, Gore and Seth even merge into a two-headed deity - Heruifi.

In some periods of the III millennium BC Seth even somewhat pressed Horus as the patron of royal power. His name was included in the complex royal titulatura ("the priest of Set"), the kings of the XIX and XX dynasties even bore his name (Seti I, Seti II, Setnakht). “Napoleon of the Ancient World” - Pharaoh Thutmos III called himself “Set's favorite”, and Ramses the Great said during the Battle of Kadesh that he fought “like Seth”. Seth was not only the god of war and anger, but also the patron of metals, acquiring the features of the god of earth, the creator of Ptah; The hardest metal at that time — iron — was called the “Set's bone.”

Seth's image began to be endowed with negative traits during the period after the conquest of Hyksos, during the reign of the XV-XVI dynasties (1715 - ca. 1554 BC). The alien conquerors worshiped Suteh (Baal), whose functions and attributes were transferred to the Egyptian Set (because Seth was later perceived as the patron of foreigners, even among his wives were alien goddesses).

Initially, the cult of the god Seth (or Seth) was probably brought after, in one of the ancient periods, several waves of Semitic hordes came from the present Syria and the Arabian steppes to the territory of Lower Egypt, where the autochthonous population lived. They can be assumed to have been mixed with the northern mountain tribes. These invaders worshiped Set, but their power did not extend beyond the Delta.

Later, from Arabia, through the lower extremity of the Red Sea (however, there is no consensus, they may have passed through the desert or the Abyssinian mountains) other tribes appeared who had mastered the green valley of Upper Egypt. Brass Craftsmen weapons, they brought irrigation farming to Egypt, which allowed them to curb the Nile flood. Their first settlement was Edfu, but gradually they began to move north to sacred Abydos and Tinis, subjugating isolated tribes to themselves, uniting them under their power. These aliens worshiped Horus.

The image of the Mountain during the history of Ancient Egypt also underwent significant changes, absorbing various beliefs. But, first, we note that there were several of Horov. The most famous image is the protector of the ancient kings, the embodiment of which was a falcon, symbolizing the spirit of the sun. The various deities were Horus the elder (the son of Ra, the brother of Osiris) and Horus the younger (the son of Osiris and Isis). In Edfu, Gore had attributes not of the sun, but of the heavenly god. He was also the Mountain of both horizons - Kharakhti, who became one of the forms of Ra (and in this aspect the famous winged disc became its symbol). In the image of the winged disc, Gore victoriously fights with the enemies of Ra, waters the water of the Nile with their blood, which Ra finds for himself "pleasant", and the place of the battle gets the name Bekhdet ("life is pleasant"), Gore becomes the winner of the enemies - Gor Behdetskim. In this myth, Ra refers to Gore as his son, and Osiris is completely absent. Perhaps Gore was once the incarnation of the solar spirit in those localities where Heliopolis theology subsequently came with its powerful cult of Ra, therefore the image of Gore became not independent, but joined the cult of Ra.

As the “Golden Mountain”, he was considered the god of dawn, and in this appearance he received the “ba” of the departed in the Hall of Two Istin Osiris (in the hall of the afterlife court). It is likely that initially his mother was not Isis, but the “heavenly cow” Hathor, and the sun, moon, stars (attributes of Horus) were forms of Horus, which he accepted as her son. Obviously, the ancient tribal concepts superimposed on each other, then on later representations, and as a result only one generalized name of the deity remained - Horus.

One of the king-conquerors of Upper Egypt - Scorpio - with his army moved to the north, expanding the boundaries of his kingdom. However, his victorious march was stopped in the area of ​​the swampy then Fayum. By this time, there were actually two kingdoms in Egypt - the Upper and the Lower; their collision was only a matter of time. And this time has come when the king of Upper Egypt came to power - Narmer (Horus Aha), the founder of the first dynasty. He put on the red (Lower Egypt) and white (Upper Egypt) crowns, uniting Egypt at the end of the 4th millennium BC. As you can see, the victory was won by the fans of Horus.

Such is, in general terms, the possible historical background, which has come down to us in the form of echoes in the myths about the struggle between Horus and Seth. Note that already in the period of the Old Kingdom, the mythological outline was formed: Horus, the son of Osiris, defeated Seth, seized the crown of his father. Whereas, in an independent tradition that is not related to the Osiris cycle, Gore and Seth act as brothers claiming an inheritance. The late transformation of the myth is probably connected with a change in the order of the succession to the throne, when the right to transfer the throne was claimed not by seniority among the brothers, but from father to son.

Divine Wars: Choir vs Set (part 1)

Ancient Egyptian papyrus depicting weighing the heart of the deceased Anubis. On one bowl of scales is the heart, on the other is the “feather of truth” of the goddess Maat.

The mythological plan of history dates back to the time when the gods lived on earth ... And they did not even live, but only tried to materialize. Already in the womb of his mother, the great goddess Nuth, Seth, as the myth tells, showed his envious temper when he wanted to get ahead of Osiris by birth to become the heir of their father Hebe. But, despite his three-day efforts, even an unusual way to bring into the world from the hole punched by him in the side of his mother, Seth did not succeed, and by birthright Osiris became lord of Upper and Lower Egypt. All subsequent time life Seth was obsessed with the dream of seizing power, he enviously watched the successes of Osiris, who carried out a civilizing mission, organizing the life of mortals in Egypt and beyond. But, as is well known from the myth, Seth still found a way to be at the head of Egypt, having tricked Osiris into a chest and then dismembered his body.

We omit the details of the ordeals of Osiris and Isis, the problematics and symbolism of this complex myth, the resurrection and the departure of Osiris to the other world. But let us pay attention to the plot associated with the birth of Mount Isis from the dead, but for a moment resurrected by the magic of Osiris, since it will be relevant to further events. When the goddess felt that a new life was beating in her, she turned with a passionate plea to the solar Ra to protect her son Gore, so that he could become the lord and take revenge on her father’s killer. And the king of the gods even before birth promised his great-grandson Horus both the throne and the power.


In real life, only gods and pharaohs in Egypt could have such armor. A shot from the film "Pharaoh".

Despite the promise of his great-grandfather, the king of the gods Ra, Gore had a difficult childhood. Largely due to the efforts of his uncle Seth, who was in no hurry to forget about the younger rival. Still, Gore grew up, and the eighty-year-old epic of the struggle for dominion over Egypt began. Many myths contain details of these bloody feuds, it is rather difficult to single out a sequence of plots, all the more, as we understand, this is not a single cycle, but fragments of myths from different times and territories that are put together. But there are a number of the most famous stories.


The chariot of Tutankhamen. According to the Egyptians, their gods also fought on such chariots. Cairo Museum.
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  1. Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 28 March 2016 08: 50
    +7
    The article asks more questions than it provides answers. Many words, but nothing is said.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 28 March 2016 08: 56
      +5
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      The article asks more questions than it provides answers. Many words, but nothing is said.

      I agree with you. Maybe we will get an answer in the sequel. We will not rush.
    2. Petrol
      Petrol 28 March 2016 09: 49
      +1
      Pomeranian
      absolutely agree with you!
      there are even more questions, in the smoking room of TNU from the professors I heard that in ancient times in Egypt, a higher order god meant a people (earthly people),
      for example, among the Slavs, the god Perun, this meant the state of childbirth (the family tribal structure was) as passing the path associated with wars and survival.
    3. Letterksi
      Letterksi 28 March 2016 12: 29
      +2
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      The article asks more questions than it provides answers. Many words, but nothing is said.

      All have died out long ago. No answer to anyone))
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 28 March 2016 17: 23
        0
        Quote: LetterKsi
        There is no one to answer

        I would not be so categorical.
    4. aleksey980
      aleksey980 29 March 2016 04: 48
      +1
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      The article asks more questions than it provides answers. Many words, but nothing is said.

      And what is there to say something. Hollywood has long proven that the Egyptian gods are goa'ulda laughing
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 29 March 2016 17: 40
        0
        Quote: aleksey980
        Why say something.

        To you, as a connoisseur of Hollywood, the question is: why did the pharaohs tie a beard to themselves?
        1. aleksey980
          aleksey980 29 March 2016 20: 12
          +1
          Quote: Pomoryanin
          To you, as a connoisseur of Hollywood, the question is: why did the pharaohs tie a beard to themselves?

          No conspiracy theories are needed. I consider people who think that people on earth are the only sentient beings in the universe to be almost clinical idiots. But what was it, how it was, whether it flew in, flew openly, indirectly influenced, watched from the side or then it didn’t get there, or maybe we constructed biorobots ... I don’t know and nobody knows. It may be because of what you are talking about, or it may be because someone once created an image for himself, then became overgrown with legends, then deified, and then beards, tying skulls, piece of wood on the lips went ... It’s not known neither the official nor the alternative version can assert with confidence, drumming oneself in the chest with a heel that this was and not otherwise.
          1. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 30 March 2016 12: 06
            0
            Quote: aleksey980
            I do not know and no one knows.

            Okay, from someone else, but this is a very strange statement from you.
            1. aleksey980
              aleksey980 31 March 2016 08: 18
              +1
              Quote: Pomoryanin
              Okay, from someone else, but this is a very strange statement from you.

              No, not strange. what
              There is a whole mass of theories, some fragmentary facts are applied or attracted to each theory, and so far no one has been fully proved or refuted, each has the right to exist.
              I think that even in itself, knowledge is an absolute thing, but its content is often relative. Take, for example, the dating of time periods (eras) of antiquity, based on forecasts for coal seams (since the radiocarbon method gives objective data to a depth of only 50-60 thousand years). But if we take into account Larin’s theory of the hydride structure of the earth’s core and the calculations that accompany it, then the dating does not become so obvious. Or a more widely known example: once it was considered absolute knowledge that the earth is flat.
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 31 March 2016 14: 59
                +1
                Quote: aleksey980
                There are lots of theories

                Well, here's an example of the inexplicable. 1941 year, 29 June. Three waves of German bombers are flying to bomb the airfields near Murmansk. In Afrikind, there are bombers, near Murmashi and at another nearby airfield - fighters. Moreover, all fighters, wing to wing, are on that day at the Murmashinsky airfield. The bombers did not reach Africa and dropped bombs on the tundra because of the fog that had come from. Others were bombed by the EMPTY airfield. One of the most explicable versions is the work of Noids, Sami sorcerers.
                1. aleksey980
                  aleksey980 31 March 2016 17: 59
                  0
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  versions
                  1. Pomeranian
                    Pomeranian 31 March 2016 20: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: aleksey980
                    versions

                    Version number two: confused. Germans. In 1941.
                    Version number three: scared.
                    Which of the three do you like best? I am the first, closer to the real one.
                    1. aleksey980
                      aleksey980 April 1 2016 10: 29
                      +1
                      Quote: Pomoryanin
                      Version number two: confused. Germans. In 1941.
                      Version number three: scared.
                      Which of the three do you like best? I am the first, closer to the real one.

                      request Any. Is there some more version - banal error + lack of normal observation of the meteorological situation (weather forecasters and now it’s not always the right brand of coffee comes across for fortune telling lol , and even more so then).
                      Then (and for a long time afterwards) they flew along the PNP, in which the course of technology was laid on the ground, according to intelligence, they could be mistaken and sometimes they were mistaken. Considering that, in addition to the PNP, it was possible to navigate only visually, and we also flew with visual control over perceptible details of the terrain according to the planning and navigation device, then in fact, in the fog, it is almost unrealistic to go to the battlefield and bomb out, especially if there is even the slightest error in the task course. Fog areas, like the so-called "charges", can form quite quickly and locally, and if there is no observation warning about this, then you can easily fly into them, and if they even hit the edge of a thundercloud, then it is quite a decision to drop bombs and dump.
                      Without fog - the same thing. A small error in the course = going wrong. We saw some kind of airfield, bombed and went back home. Or maybe just an intelligence mistake.
                      P.S. I didn’t Scali, but she’s right in that she needs to dig from all sides smile
                      In addition, it is not necessary to write off the fact that for the Germans then their own skin and Abshussbalkenes stood on the keels at the forefront and only when they were squeezed out to their homeland did the fulfillment of the combat mission take center stage.
  2. Pitot
    Pitot 28 March 2016 09: 18
    +1
    I do not know. I look at the chariot - a remake. How could they process chariot material if they did not have steel or iron tools. Bronze too. In general, it is interestingly written, but .....
    1. kalibr
      28 March 2016 09: 50
      +8
      And you don’t look ... It is collected from the details found in the tomb of Tutankhamun. Of course, it is clear what the aliens or Carter did. But there’s so much they’ve done something ... the whole Cairo Museum and a bunch of museums in Europe ...
      1. Chiropractor
        Chiropractor 29 March 2016 14: 09
        +2
        Chariot ... in the sand ... well ...

        The wheel begs wider directly, otherwise it gets bogged down ..
      2. Hurray
        Hurray April 1 2016 07: 24
        0
        If you translate the word carter, you get a very interesting profession. The one who makes carts.
    2. Mestny
      Mestny 19 November 2016 01: 35
      -1
      There is a club of fans to pull an owl on the globe, called "uchOnye against myths."
      So they convincingly demonstrated that with the help of a copper tube, sticks and sand, you can process what you want. Now we know that a real scientist will do anything from anything - if only they would not select a scientific feeding trough.
      And even that is true - he wrote and wrote dissertations, works, now well-deserved, and title, and money-recognition. And then bam - and bury everything? Admit to being a fool, and even a fraud?
      Yes, to prevent this from happening, you will not only drill a stone with a copper pipe, but with your own organ.
  3. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 28 March 2016 09: 25
    +3
    Article plus! Everything is stated beautifully and clearly! Let me have a couple of comments.

    On such chariots, according to the Egyptians, their gods also fought. Cairo Museum.
    Generally not quite on such. According to myths, divine chariots could FLY across the sky, and also sparkled like solar discs. And what the ancient Egyptians understood by these words is incomprehensible. wink

    The mythical Egyptian gods were subject to ordinary human weaknesses: vanity and greed, revenge and lies, even debauchery and drunkenness.
    Which is further evidence that these were not gods at all.

    and about Ramses the Great during the battle of Kadesh it is said that he fought “like Seth”. Set was not only the god of war and anger, but also the patron of metals, acquiring the features of the god of the earth, the creator of Ptah; the hardest metal known at that time - iron - was called the "Set bone."
    There is a good Russian figurative expression - "fought like hell" - this is just about Ramses. The fact is that Set \ Sutekh \ Satah has an extreme resemblance to Satan.
    Seth is generally an extremely vile person, as can be seen from myths, and externally - in the picture below. And their names are similar - in ancient Egyptian Seth was written as Sth.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 28 March 2016 10: 54
      0
      Everything is stated beautifully and clearly ...... There is a good Russian figurative expression...
      Nothing is clear, although I am not trying to understand, you have a good idea about the similarity of individual characters with some vile personalities, so what is there to admire? The article does not even draw minus.
      And about the Russian figurative expression, you went too far, there isn’t such a thing.
  4. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 28 March 2016 09: 27
    +3
    I enjoyed reading an article on my favorite topic. Now --- good mood for a long time !!!
    Dear Oksana, you are writing here about the origin and early history of the Egyptian kingdom. Could you please answer something on the topic: are the connections between the Egypt of the Ancient Kingdom and the Pre-Dynastic era and the Berbers (in particular those who created Tassili's frescoes) known, and if there were, which ones? I read in the book of Henri Lot "to other Tassili" and in the book "Mysteries of Anthropology" about the ancient Berber civilization and that the Berbers were the ancestors and cultural predecessors of the Egyptians. Or is this theory of the author of "Mysteries of Anthropology" nothing not confirmed? Any answer will suit me.
    1. Riv
      Riv 28 March 2016 12: 40
      0
      Then, probably, the Libyans, not the Berbers? "Berbers" is generally an exclusively European term. Not a self-name.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 28 March 2016 14: 18
        0
        THERE is written exactly "BERBERS". This is just one book on this topic, from those that I have. That is why I used this term.
        When I was little, I had a book at home about Libyans, but while I was growing up, someone "read" it, and I cannot refer to it.
        1. Riv
          Riv 28 March 2016 14: 46
          +2
          An excellent illustration for European science. :)

          Once again: "Berbers" is not an ethnonym, but the European common name for the tribes of North Africa. "The contribution of the Berbers to the culture of Egypt" sounds something like "the invasion of the Chyrok" instead of the Tatar-Mongol invasion, or "Anglo-Saxon invaders" instead of the "American pioneers".
    2. kalibr
      28 March 2016 22: 35
      +1
      Vyacheslav Olegovich! Here is what we can answer the reader, thanking for the good review and interest.
      Perhaps the links did not exist with the Berbers themselves, but with one of the branches of their ancestors, who were called Libyans in ancient Egypt (already in the papyrus of 4, millennium BC, Libyan Berbers are mentioned in different aspects under the name tehenu). The self-name of one of the Berber tribes - amazihi (red) has existed since 2,5 thousand BC Yu. K. Poplinsky believes that this term is comparable with the ethnonym msws "Libyan" of the Egyptian texts of the XIX and XX dynasties, which means one of the Libyan tribes. Etymology for amaziy, pl. h. imaziyan, was proposed by T. Sarnelli: he reconstructed it as the adjective “red” with the usual prefix m- from the common Berber verb * i-zway “be red”. The Egyptians called these people “the people of the slave” - “worshipers of the sun” and depicted them as people with white skin, tattoos, ostrich feathers on their heads and a scythe descending to the temple. “Slave” was also pronounced as “rebu”, then “forehead”, then “libu” and, finally, “livas”.

      As for the Tassili frescoes, the Berber-Libyan period dates back to 200 BC-700 BC, which, of course, does not fall on the dates of the Dynastic period and the Ancient Kingdom. And even before the cattle-breeding period of Tassili (2,5 thousand years BC), negroid tribes supposedly lived in these places, and not white Arabs, like Berbers. After Lot, who tried to identify the tribes by the similarity of hairstyles and skirts (to identify the Berbers), Dominic Lazhu worked there, who refused to determine racial affiliation from the drawings as unreliable. Therefore, the version with the Berbers as the cultural ancestors of the Egyptians is rather doubtful. Additionally, the conclusion by anthropologists about the antiquity of the Berbers was made by comparing their skulls with representatives of the Capsian culture, who are considered proto-Berbers and whose rock paintings near Tunisia resemble Tassili. But both of them are a culture of hunters, gatherers, fishers, that is, on a civilizational scale in pre-dynastic times, they were approximately at the same level with the Egyptians, which could hardly serve as the basis for cultural influence.

      But then, in the era of the New Kingdom, the Libyans seriously influenced Egypt through the rulers of the 20th Libyan dynasty.
      Sincerely, Midaev O.V.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 28 March 2016 23: 07
        +1
        Many thanks for the answer, dear Oksana! Also many thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        Finally, I now know for sure that this theory is disproved as unreliable.
        That it’s not my personal misunderstanding, but the search for truth by world-renowned scientists! Probably, now I will begin a new round of collecting good books.
  5. sardine
    sardine 28 March 2016 10: 07
    +5
    In my humble opinion, the gods of antiquity are representatives of a certain overdeveloped civilization, possessing knowledge and technologies inconceivable for today - the remnants of a certain antediluvian terrestrial civilization, destroyed or in complete decline, either as a result of a flood, or as a result of a global warrior using huge destructive weapons strength. The fragments of the civilizations of the gods have remained to our days, in the form of Egyptian temples, pyramids, structures in Peru and Bolivia (alentantamba, Saksayhuaman, Teoanaka, Nazca) BAAlbek (Lebanon), the construction technologies of which cannot be recreated today. Humanlike, taller than humans, but nevertheless genetically compatible, myths of almost every ancient culture tell about the alliances of the gods with human women. It was they who transmitted knowledge to people, from agriculture to metallurgy and medicine. Contact with people was the closest, we can say that the gods lived among people.
    About the war of the gods is also mentioned, not only in Egyptian mythology, but also in the Sumerian, Indian (Mahabharata) and so on. By the way, weapons are found in the Mahabharat, the description of which is very similar to the description of a nuclear explosion with all the consequences.
    1. Riv
      Riv 28 March 2016 11: 50
      +1
      ... with all the ensuing brains ... :)
      What was the description of Narayana compared to when nuclear weapons had not yet been invented?
      1. sardine
        sardine 28 March 2016 12: 49
        +3
        "Vimana approached the Earth with unimaginable speed and released many arrows, sparkling like gold, thousands of lightning ... The roar they issued was like thunder from a thousand drums ... This was followed by furious explosions and hundreds of fire whirlwinds ..."

        "a single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. A red-hot column of smoke and fire, as bright as 10 thousand suns, rose in all its splendor. It was an unknown weapon, the Iron Lightning Strike, a gigantic messenger of death that turned to ashes the entire race of Vrisha and Andhaks "


        "the head (stick) of Brahma" or "the flame of Indra": "a huge and spewing streams of flame", "rushing at a frantic speed, enveloped in lightning", "the explosion from it was as bright as 10 thousand suns at the zenith", "a flame devoid of smoke, spread in all directions. "" Designed to kill all the people. "
        "A lightning strike, like a giant messenger of death, burned people. Those who rushed into the river managed to survive, but lost their hair and nails ..."; "... several years after that the Sun, stars and sky are hidden by clouds and bad weather"
        1. Riv
          Riv 28 March 2016 14: 06
          +2
          Horror!
          However, what was this compared to when the atomic bomb was not there? With a meteorite fall? Suddenly: a very suitable comparison without any bombs.

          "... Meanwhile, Narayana's secret weapon entered the battle. The air was filled with arrows resembling snakes with a flaming mouth. Iron balls and discs with razor-sharp edges appeared. Each time the Pandavas tried to repel these weapons, its effect was intensified. Cut into pieces, burned, crowded from all sides, the Pandavas fled. But one cannot escape from the heavenly weapons. One cannot hide from them in caves or houses, if they were nearby. Arrows, balls, discs changed direction, following theirs. victims ... "

          And this, in all evidence, is a description of the attack of battle droids! :)
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 28 March 2016 14: 23
      -1
      Even in the Mahabharata, the "arrow of Brahma" is described. In the 200-volume World Literature. A typical laser beam !!!!!!!!!
      1. Riv
        Riv 28 March 2016 15: 05
        -1
        Nichrome! This is a gauss gun.
        1. sardine
          sardine 28 March 2016 15: 52
          +5
          Respected Riv, your sarcasm is at least inappropriate, we know very little about these distant times, one thing is clear ... the ancients had technologies that we cannot even dream of yet. You can, of course, become like skeptics who deny everything except the theories of evolution of the disrespected Darwin, or church fanatics who burn everyone at the stake who dare to question biblical dogmas. But it seems to me that it is not worth stopping in search of truth, even in such sources as myths and epics of ancient peoples may contain more truth than in the reports of modern "scientists".
          1. Riv
            Riv 28 March 2016 16: 09
            0
            No way! How can one doubt the existence of flying, singing men (gandharvas!), Or cannibal demons (rakshasas)? If you already believe the descriptions of heavenly weapons, then believe in them.

            :)))

            And by the way: Darwin was right ...
          2. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 28 March 2016 21: 11
            +2
            Quote: sardare
            But it seems to me that it is not worth stopping in search of truth, even in such sources as myths and epics of ancient peoples may contain more truth than in the reports of modern "scientists".

            That's right. Some giggled over the folk epic, for example, over Snake Tugarin, and here it turns out that tynts really existed and was killed by Dobrynya on 19 of July 1096 of the year near Pereyaslavl.
            1. Riv
              Riv 28 March 2016 21: 41
              -1
              ... at eight in the evening Moscow time ...
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 29 March 2016 17: 41
                0
                Quote: Pomoryanin
                ... at eight in the evening Moscow time ...

                Sorry, I’m not interested in your education. Especially after 8 in Moscow.
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 28 March 2016 10: 09
    +3
    Mythical Egyptian gods were subject to ordinary human weaknesses.. Gods people invented ... and endowed them with all human virtues and vices ... and beyond capabilities, at the same time ... Thanks, for the article ... but in meaning, there should be a continuation .. The people ... want to figure out what to what..
    1. kalibr
      28 March 2016 10: 56
      +3
      There will be a second part, and I don’t know what will be there. The author is following everything, he will tell me what needs to be answered.
  7. Riv
    Riv 28 March 2016 11: 47
    +3
    Here you need to take into account the peculiarities of the worldview of the ancient Egyptians. For us, "yesterday" was just yesterday. The day has passed, it will never happen again. And for the Egyptian "yesterday" is always. He perceived the world outside of time. Seth did not kill Osiris, as we would say: "In time immemorial." The death of God is as much a part of this world as beets in the garden. We believe that the beets can be boiled and eaten, but for the Egyptian, the beets were left in the garden after dinner. So what, what did you eat? This world has changed. In the same way, Seth kills Osiris at every single moment of time, as in the Egyptian fresco, where the pharaoh, and fleeing enemies, and prisoners are all in a heap. And Osiris resurrects just as regularly. What has been will always be. Who does not believe - reads the Bible, the same is written there.

    Hard to understand, huh? :) The Egyptians lived in eternity. Hence the national olympiad on mummification and pyramids. The pyramid just served as material confirmation that the one who built it did not just exist. While they remember him, he exists, and his ba (our closest analogue: the soul) sleeps next to his mummy. Did the ancient Egyptian die? It’s sad. But he, from his point of view, did not cease to exist.

    Hence the eternal responsibility for their actions, safely borrowed by modern religions. From our point of view, Seth is bad - he killed his brother, spread rot his nephew and all that. Sinned, in short. But for the Egyptian Seth is not bad and not good. He is a part of this world, but as a person - he simply does something and is responsible for them, at any given moment in time and not for people to judge him for it. People did not judge.
    1. kalibr
      28 March 2016 14: 39
      +2
      You wrote it very well. That is how they felt themselves and time, otherwise why mummies? By the way, this is well written by Mathieu ...
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 28 March 2016 21: 04
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        That is how they felt themselves and time, otherwise why mummies?

        Actually, I personally adhere to the version that mummies were made in order to stop the chain of rebirths. It seems like your body is whole - you won’t get another.
        1. Riv
          Riv 28 March 2016 22: 08
          +2
          Everything is exactly the opposite. According to the Egyptians, only souls of sinners were plunged into reincarnation, and what matters is not even how much you messed up with during your life, but how much merit you have to the gods. That is, on their court, on the contrary, one must strive. And here the main thing is how you were buried. This is a kind of magic ritual. After all, the soul still had to get to the gods. That she would succeed was not guaranteed. That’s what magic provided her with protection.

          “I didn’t do anything that was offensive to the gods,” the soul of a man says at the trial. “I didn’t allow the master to offend his slave. I didn’t make anyone starve. I didn’t kill anyone. . I didn't diminish the food dedicated to the gods "- in general, nothing particularly complicated, right?

          However, everything is not easy there. Beliefs have changed many times over the course of three thousand years: "Bodies disappear and pass away, others are replacing them ... There is not even room left from the builders of houses. What happened to them? .."
  8. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 28 March 2016 12: 51
    +2
    Quote: Riv
    From our point of view, Seth is bad - he killed his brother, spread rot his nephew and all that. Sinned, in short. But for the Egyptian Seth is not bad and not good. He is a part of this world, but as a person - he simply does something and is responsible for them, at any given moment in time and not for people to judge him for it. People did not judge.

    Everything that you wrote is of course true on the one hand. However, here's the problem - the fact is that there was no such STATIC IN TIME phenomenon as "the religion of the Egyptians." There, at least FIVE TIMES, beliefs have radically changed - i.e. not just another deity became the head of the religious system, but the system of values ​​changed drastically several times (well, what else can we expect in 3000 years?).
    1. Riv
      Riv 28 March 2016 13: 55
      +4
      You confuse religion with worldview. How could I explain this with an example? .. Well, have you heard about the Sotik year? The Egyptian calendar year was 6 hours shorter than the tropical year. But every 1461 their beginning coincided. Such a year was coincidentally declared a holiday, and the period from 1461 was called the Sotik year.

      So: from our point of view, it would be easier for a normal person to enter leap years in the calendar. The Egyptians also knew very well that for every 4 years an extra day should be added. But they did not add, because neh ... there is no need, in short. The change of seasons is exactly the same part of eternity. Well, the Nile spill came in the first month, or in the second - what trouble? Someday again in the first comes.

      So it is with religion: did you find out some new details from the life of the gods? Wonderful. We donate to the temple (which was built a long time ago, but no one even wonders how long ago there are no such troubles at all), pray and continue building the pyramid. What is characteristic: be sure to finish it!
  9. King, just king
    King, just king 28 March 2016 15: 43
    +1
    Always interested in the question of chariots. Here is the old Ben-Hur movie, the wild chariot races. Historical films with chariots ...

    Clearly, no one answered ... Literature is silent. And the question is: the material of the hubs and wheel hubs of war chariots? With carts, still back and forth, but fighting, terribly sickle-bearing chariots ... Oh two-carriage, yes with two or three soldiers, yes in the potholes of fields and gardens, and with sharp maneuvering in time and space, and in the Bronze Age .. .
    1. Riv
      Riv 28 March 2016 16: 12
      +1
      And you look at the chariot in the illustration and ask yourself a simple question: has she been in battle?
      1. King, just king
        King, just king 28 March 2016 18: 50
        +3
        And what about her, looking at this chariot? A memorial-funeral item, the same type as an urn with entrails.
        1. Riv
          Riv 28 March 2016 22: 13
          +1
          So you answered your question. This is a ritual item. What difference does it make and how? It would be beautiful. And to fight ... Pharaoh went to heaven, what kind of war?
          1. King, just king
            King, just king 29 March 2016 11: 52
            0
            I did not understand you. I was interested in a completely different question, you asked my opinion about Pharaoh's funeral chariot ... What does it have to do with: "here you answered your question"?
    2. grandson of the hero
      grandson of the hero 28 March 2016 22: 36
      +1
      Do you know much about bronze?
      For the general development and elimination of false concepts, I will give one example: with a proper heat treatment process, individual bronze alloys are extremely durable and difficult to machine with a carbide tool. I had my own experience.
      The temperature regimes for bronze are much lower than for steel, therefore it is really achievable in those days. After all, the appearance of iron (meteorite does not count) is associated only with the possibility of achieving high temperatures, and these are completely different technologies.
      1. Riv
        Riv 29 March 2016 10: 53
        0
        The Egyptians produced mainly arsenic bronze. Of course, they did not know how to clean it. Although arsenic makes bronze solid, it reduces strength very much.

        Well, there’s no need to talk about how complicated the heat treatment is in those conditions. The maximum is the simplest hardening. It is not enough to reach the desired temperature (by the way: don’t show us the ancient Egyptian thermometer with which they determined it?), It needs to be kept for some time in a rather narrow range.
  10. 0000
    0000 28 March 2016 19: 58
    +1
    Ksyusha Milaeva, if you really want to ... ...... this does not mean that you can publish any heresy (you have to answer for everything wink )




    "this is in general terms possible laughing historical background" laughing
    learn the hieroglyphs and (almost) everything will become clear to you _ don't let yourself be fooled

    Heart on one cup, mind on another

    scales (nagual_ AQ) wink
    1. kalibr
      28 March 2016 22: 17
      +1
      Why did it occur to you to call Oksana Vsevolodovna Ksyusha? The article is signed. A person works at Penza State University, and everything about him there is a field of scientific interests, and publications, and a degree and title. You can ask.
      1. 0000
        0000 29 March 2016 06: 19
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Why is _ Oksana _ called Ksyusha


        with such knowledge _ only Ksyushechka wink
  11. 0000
    0000 28 March 2016 20: 21
    0
    __

    Ksenia Vsevolodovna _ feel free to ask if cho_ is unclear wink
    1. kalibr
      28 March 2016 22: 24
      +1
      She hardly needs to ask
  12. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 28 March 2016 20: 27
    +1
    Quote: Riv
    As with religion: did any new details come to light from the life of the gods? Wonderful. Donate to the temple

    No, there society was so bad that it could only be compared with the French 1790s or the Russian 1910s revolutions. Up to the complete desecration of the temples of hostile deities and the destruction of the ruling classes "as a class", that is, with complete genocide and a COMPLETE CHANGE OF THE VALUES SYSTEM (for example, the introduction of human meat as the norm for food). Against the background of these social upheavals, "Akhenaten's revolution" looks like child's play, although even he greatly subjugated the Egyptian religion.

    Quote: Riv
    let's pray and continue to build the pyramid. What is characteristic: be sure to finish it!
    Yeah. Which in general then stopped building back in the Ancient Kingdom.

    Quote: Riv
    cannibal demons (rakshasas)? If you already believe the descriptions of heavenly weapons, then believe in them.
    I am not a supporter of an alternative history, but a supporter of an objective approach and analysis of ALL available scientific facts, without suppression.

    Until recently, highbrow pundits denied the existence of peoples like the gnomes. They were denied ... before the discovery in 2003 of the "man of the flores", which is lower than the pygmies and even belongs to a completely different ancient species. Three years did not dare to publish, but in the end it was revealed and we have a big scientific problem in paleoanthropology ...

    Quote: sardare
    The fragments of the civilizations of the gods have remained to our days, in the form of Egyptian temples, pyramids, structures in Peru and Bolivia (alentantamba, Saksayhuaman, Teoanak
    [/ comment-show]
  13. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 28 March 2016 23: 03
    +3
    Quote: King, just king
    Although, in fact, the existence of the pygmies, I personally do not see the essence of such a fuss.
    The problem is that homo floresensis has nothing to do with modern pygmies. Well, to modern people. This turned out to be a completely different species / subspecies.

    At first they generally thought that they were locals, they were only sick in childhood, and in general, let’s bury us as quickly as we can. Then it turned out that no, not local. That is local, but not really at all.

    Quote: King, just king
    There is a Neandertal and there is us, it seems with a creak it is admitted that they say, yes, the lads are a little cousin, and "our" Neandertals were actually cut out, probably even gobbled up ..
    Everything is complicated there. Neanders were definitely indulging in cannibalism, and in large quantities (it was the "kitchen heaps" that were found). Our ancestors are in doubt (the presence of some Neander bones in the form of clearly ritual objects - this may be commonplace battle trophies).

    Quote: King, just king
    In general, there was nothing to eat on the island, and so they degenerated ...
    Unfortunately, modern official scientists have not been able to prove that insular dwarfism is to blame. Well, that is, such a phenomenon as "island dwarfism" exists, but there may be "island gigantism" (for example, giant storks and huge rats lived on the island of Flores).

    Quote: kalibr
    But both of them are a culture of hunters, gatherers, fishers, that is, on a civilizational scale in pre-dynastic times, they were approximately at the same level with the Egyptians, which could hardly serve as the basis for cultural influence.
    Hmm, but what’s strange: what, the ancient Egyptians did not fish in the Nile? did not collect for example the same lotus for food? did not hunt for hippos and crocodiles? Yes, it is even full of such reliefs, which means that these were traditional processes.

    Those. in general, CARDINALLY the methods of managing, with the exception of developed (although debatable!) agriculture, did not differ. Moreover, they were the same in the Ancient, in the Middle, in the New Realms.

    And then bam - and literally AT THE BEGINNING OF HISTORY Dr. Egypt the construction of the pyramids. Absolutely surreal mega-structures ... Literally from scratch ... I emphasize once again that I don’t admit Nosovsky and Fomenka, but there are problems, and I think that they should not be hidden and hidden, but secrets should be revealed, as the scientists of the past did.

    Just looking at the Aswan quarry, where on one side there are obvious traces of hand-carved pink granite and obvious traces of primitive chisels of the ancient Egyptians, AND DIRECTLY HERE, literally on the next wall - traces of a completely different technology, the effects of some kind of tool that draws like a spoon with a spoon or cuts like butter, a thinking person has a lot of questions.
  14. sardine
    sardine 28 March 2016 23: 18
    +1
    About technology of the ancients, Comrade Sklyarov and Co. very clearly talks and shows. in the movie cycle Peru and Bolivia long before the Incas и Riddles of ancient EgyptLook, you will not regret it.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. King, just king
    King, just king 29 March 2016 11: 18
    +1
    Quote: Warrior2015
    And then bam - and literally AT THE BEGINNING OF HISTORY Dr. Egypt the construction of the pyramids. Absolutely surreal mega-structures ... Literally from scratch ... I emphasize once again that I don’t admit Nosovsky and Fomenka, but there are problems, and I think that they should not be hidden and hidden, but secrets should be revealed, as the scientists of the past did.

    Just looking at the Aswan quarry, where on one side there are obvious traces of hand-carved pink granite and obvious traces of primitive chisels of the ancient Egyptians, AND DIRECTLY HERE, literally on the next wall - traces of a completely different technology, the effects of some kind of tool that draws like a spoon with a spoon or cuts like butter, a thinking person has a lot of questions.


    It all rests, I don't know the truth with what, in the problem of the "MIDDLE AGES". Those. there was civilization, opochki, barbarians, civilization to the nail, and the Middle Ages began ... wild and terrible. Reading nicht, writing only in a stream on the snow, the art of nicht, speech is practically forgotten. Uncles Fomenko and Nosovsky are still peppers, especially when it comes to book writing, but they are not alone, in the West there are scientists with similar questions. Returning to the topic, they built and built in Giza, bam, the peoples of the sea or whatever, everything began to build underdogs, wrecks.
    If you reverse dating with pimped things back, maybe scientists will come to terms, no?

    Now, according to the surprising Egyptian drawings ... Well, it's unrealistic to THIS with a chisel, with chiseled edges, with the same groove depth. My opinion, personal purely, is plaster, and the pouring of "Egyptian" cementless concrete. As far as I know, no research has been conducted on the "stone" itself. Well, yes, there are speculations that in antiquity, and in the modern "wild" world of Central and South America, there were and still are cadres who could "soften" a stone with juice or tincture of plants, but there are no facts.
  17. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 29 March 2016 11: 35
    +1
    Quote: Riv
    What nonsense you write, however ... FULL desecration of temples! TOTAL genocide !!! FULL system change !!! 111 I read and cried directly. You describe everything as if you had a dream

    With these words you prove your incompetence in the history of Ancient Egypt.

    At least take the collapse of the Ancient Kingdom - many tombs of the pharaohs of the 4th dynasty were barbarously destroyed, the statues were thrown out of the temples, the graves of priests, courtiers, velomozh and princes devastated.

    Do you really think that the religious system of Egypt was constant and unchanged for 3000 years? then why plates from the destroyed ancient sanctuaries were among the building material during the construction of the temples of other deities?

    Why were most of the statues of the pharaohs and deities broken in ancient times by the Egyptians themselves?

    The same Leiden papyrus describes how the Nile was packed with corpses, the children of nobles were smashed against the walls, etc. Do you think that these horrors did not happen and for 3000 years the ancient Egyptians lived without social upheaval?

    Quote: Riv
    But who told you that the pyramids were no longer built during the time of the Old Kingdom? Do not believe, do not stop. The pyramids of the late period have survived worse (oh, not the same quality as in the old days!) But they are.
    The pyramids built after the Old Kingdom, as it were, are pale copies, no comparison in size, quality of stone processing, in a word, attempts to repeat the unique ...

    No comparison with the Great Pyramids and other similar objects.

    Quote: Riv
    And the gnomes are bullshit. Soon elves will be found.

    I cited a SCIENTIFIC FACT - the discovery of a completely different type of ancient fossil people of ultra-short stature. If you didn't know him, this is your problem. You may laugh, but you probably don't know that its semi-official name is "hobbit" or "gnome", "mountain dwarf" (dwarf).
    http://www.crystalinks.com/hobbit.html
    Below is its reconstruction compared with the average size of modern man.

    Once again, this is an official scientific fact.

    Moreover, the worst thing for official science - including folklorists - is that local tribes have long had myths about dwarfs "ebugogo" living in the depths of forests. Of course, the Dutch and English "specialists" did not believe in these myths, considering them groundless fables of the natives ... before the discoveries of 2003-2005.
    1. Riv
      Riv 29 March 2016 13: 49
      +1
      Yes Yes! Elven civilization will be found, and the hobbit civilization, and the orcs, too, will not hide. Seek and find.
      Just do not forget to eat a pill.
  18. King, just king
    King, just king 29 March 2016 11: 38
    0
    Quote: Warrior2015
    Everything is complicated there. Neanders were definitely indulging in cannibalism, and in large quantities (it was the "kitchen heaps" that were found). Our ancestors are in doubt (the presence of some Neander bones in the form of clearly ritual objects - this may be commonplace battle trophies).

    Quote: King, just king
    In general, there was nothing to eat on the island, and so they degenerated ...
    Unfortunately, modern official scientists have not been able to prove that insular dwarfism is to blame. Well, that is, such a phenomenon as "island dwarfism" exists, but there may be "island gigantism" (for example, giant storks and huge rats lived on the island of Flores).



    About our distant relatives, I will say so, to hamster their own kind out of hunger and in hunting excitement, then it is possible, but not a Neanderthal? Yes chomp, I think for a sweet soul. Another question, sites with Neanderthal bones, are they their sites, or maybe the "homo" had lunch ...

    About Flores ... A dark story, let's just say. Again, an incomprehensible fuss. Well, there lived a small tribe degenerated from closely related crossbreeding on a small archipelago, well, yes, it was. It is necessary to dig, maybe somewhere lower in the "mother" cave will be the bones of "normal" people, ancestors.
    I think that a hundred of today's people have settled on closed islands, after 300 years, there it will be possible to collect such personnel, scientists will be stunned.

    Probably, as a result of geological processes, a group of people was enclosed on several islands, as a result of closely related crossing over several hundred years, changes in the skeleton occurred. Given the isolation of the islands - extremely scarce food reserves, which also gave a change in height and weight.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 29 March 2016 16: 05
      -1
      In the books of A.M. Kondratov I read that at the time when (according to modern data) people of the species Homo floresiensis lived, i.e., 14 thousand years BC, there was an ICE PERIOD !!! And the level of the sea was 100 ---- 150 meters lower than the present all over the Earth! And, firstly, there was a subcontinent of Sund, on the site of the Sund (i.e. Sond) islands --- Sumatra, Kalimantan, Java, Bali, Lombok, Sumabah, Sumby, Flor
      Yesa, Timor, Belitung, Butung, etc., combined with the Malacca Peninsula.
      Secondly, there was the Sahul continent --- now it is Australia, Tasmania, New Guinea, and, possibly, the now extinct land of Melanesid.
      Sulawesi may have been separate from the others.

      Therefore, at that time, closely related crosses did not smell.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 29 March 2016 16: 19
        -1
        The names of the books are:
        Address --- Lemuria?
        Atlantis Five Oceans
        Look for Atlantis offshore
        Footprints on the shelf
        Riddles of the Great Ocean
        I often referred to these books here. If necessary --- I will clarify!
  19. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 29 March 2016 16: 10
    +1
    Quote: Riv
    Yes Yes! Elven civilization will be found, and the hobbit civilization, and the orcs, too, will not hide. Seek and find.

    Remember comrade, I am a person trusting scientific facts, not a storyteller. Not a word was said about the elves.

    As I have already noted, anthropologists have adopted the conventional name "hobbit" or "mountain dwarf" for the "man of flores".

    By the way, I brought you scientific facts and showed the incompleteness of your knowledge of ancient Egyptian history. Do you think I'm wrong? argue, not be rude!

    Quote: King, just king
    About our distant relatives, I will say so, to hamster their own kind out of hunger and in hunting excitement, then it is possible, but not a Neanderthal? Yes chomp, I think for a sweet soul. Another question, sites with Neanderthal bones, are they their sites, or maybe the "homo" had lunch ...
    The Neander sites where bones with traces of cannibalism were found are known. Moreover, they ate not only their own kind, but also various types of other sapiens, apparently very evil comrades. Some analogue of the "mountain trolls" of European mythology.

    No such obvious traces of cannibalism were found in the parking lots of modern people (our direct ancestors loved all kinds of game such as venison and mammoth meat more), but there are some traces, that's all.

    There is even a hypothesis that one of the reasons for the extinction of Neander was the transition to cannibalism, due to which they received a whole bunch of diseases. This incidentally took place in more recent times and among some tribes on the islands of Southeast Asia.
    1. Riv
      Riv 29 March 2016 16: 16
      -1
      Do you know what else I will advise you? Wear black socks. This is gothic. And when holes appear on them, depression is guaranteed to you.
      Maybe then you will leave the topwar alone with your crazy ideas ...
  20. King, just king
    King, just king 29 March 2016 18: 14
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    The names of the books are:
    Address --- Lemuria?
    Atlantis Five Oceans
    Look for Atlantis offshore
    Footprints on the shelf
    Riddles of the Great Ocean
    I often referred to these books here. If necessary --- I will clarify!


    Of course, I understand everything, but you can’t really, in a more or less serious conversation, refer to fiction. Citizen Kondratov is a linguist and biologist, where does geology, oceanography, and so on? Now the scribble has divorced, n .... there is no one to send.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 29 March 2016 18: 57
      -2
      Kondratov, the kingdom of heaven to him, is respected.
      Do you yourself refer to any sources at least when? Something is not visible in the articles that I read. If I give you some facts, I always give the sources! And if I agree with my colleagues or the Author, I’m silent and I put +++++. If there is nothing to add.
      In general, you should respect the sources, and not behave as if you were on those expeditions and knew everything yourself. The truth has been revealed to you as if.
      1. King, just king
        King, just king 29 March 2016 19: 15
        0
        Citizen of Reptiloid, are you drunk or inadequate?

        What articles that you read and about which sources I should cite, based on the meaning of my posts, do you write? What sources do you cite in your posts? I looked at hundreds of your posts, verbal flow (p-o-s), nothing more. Absolutely nothing.

        For you, the poetic epics of India and the ravings of the late linguist sources? A flag in your hands and a drum around your neck!
        Then I stop communicating with you, I am talking with the adequate, and not with those who are looking for in what year Gondwana and Lemuria, or, whatever else I encountered, I just plunged. But! it turns out that there were still some individuals who passed on to someone unknown, secret knowledge, which in the 90s. began to describe all and sundry, as if they were communicating with the Lemurians or Atlanteans. Poor Plato, he decided to talk about his vision of the "ideal" state, and all sorts of idiots, that is, Atlantologists ...........
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 29 March 2016 20: 34
          0
          And why are you insulting me? And the late Kondratov at the same time? I somehow know in which books it is written about cannibalism. Could you write an author for everyone. Suddenly, who cares.
          If I thought about a theory that turned out to be false, then I wrote YESTERDAY the name and book of this author. If you have not seen on this page, this is surprising.
          1. King, just king
            King, just king 29 March 2016 20: 58
            +1
            Citizen Reptiloid!

            All that I wanted to write to you - I wrote.
            And the late Kondratov, as Kondratov A.M. - I did not insult! All!

            PS If you are very interested - type the word "Cannibalism" in Wiki, there is a lot of stuff there.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 29 March 2016 21: 06
              -1
              I am glad that you finally understood and realized how to behave in a decent place. You will probably have to remind you of this if you forget. You have already allowed yourself to be rude.
              I urge you to inform the author of the book about cannibolism now. For some reason, you did not write after my request.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 29 March 2016 21: 50
                  -2
                  You can’t write about the book, you can’t correctly format the link.
                  OBS! Here is your source. Okay, you have to re-educate. To scramble something.? Probably better psychic. Sleep, sleep, calm down, otherwise the equipment will suffer.
  21. King, just king
    King, just king 29 March 2016 18: 20
    0
    Quote: Warrior2015

    Quote: King, just king
    About our distant relatives, I will say so, to hamster their own kind out of hunger and in hunting excitement, then it is possible, but not a Neanderthal? Yes chomp, I think for a sweet soul. Another question, sites with Neanderthal bones, are they their sites, or maybe the "homo" had lunch ...
    The Neander sites where bones with traces of cannibalism were found are known. Moreover, they ate not only their own kind, but also various types of other sapiens, apparently very evil comrades. Some analogue of the "mountain trolls" of European mythology.

    No such obvious traces of cannibalism were found in the parking lots of modern people (our direct ancestors loved all kinds of game such as venison and mammoth meat more), but there are some traces, that's all.



    Let it be for you to go away, I'm talking about "... obvious traces ...". Well, our ancestor ate his own kind in a difficult or, on the contrary, a festive moment, ate, what's wrong with that. Savages, sir, they won’t, and that Cook ... the viper threw a stone ...
  22. Cartalon
    Cartalon 29 March 2016 21: 42
    +1
    Quote: Warrior2015
    And then bam - and literally AT THE BEGINNING OF HISTORY Dr. Egypt the construction of the pyramids. Absolutely surreal mega-structures ... Literally from scratch ... I emphasize once again that I don’t admit Nosovsky and Fomenka, but there are problems, and I think that they should not be hidden and hidden, but secrets should be revealed, as the scientists of the past did.

    Just looking at the Aswan quarry, where on one side there are obvious traces of hand-carved pink granite and obvious traces of primitive chisels of the ancient Egyptians, AND DIRECTLY HERE, literally on the next wall - traces of a completely different technology, the effects of some kind of tool that draws like a spoon with a spoon or cuts like butter, a thinking person has a lot of questions
    I will not say anything about granite, but the pyramids did not appear from scratch, their evolution can be traced and unsuccessful buildings were, everything is somewhat simpler and more mundane.
  23. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 30 March 2016 00: 42
    0
    Quote: King, just king
    Well, our ancestor ate his own kind at a difficult or vice versa festive moment, ate what was wrong
    Yes, that's just probably not. It depends on who is considered whom. If we talk about a kind of "proto-civilization of mammoth hunters" (approximately from the Czech Republic to the north of the Russian Plain, from Předomosty to Kostenki in general), then there are NO traces of cannibalism THERE. Generally. Although with neanderts they cut like a lot.

    And among Neander (at least later) cannibalism apparently began to prevail in the diet - their increased aggressiveness probably influenced it + a reasonable person (and other Neander) apparently became easier prey than hunting. Mysteriously, everything is there.

    Although the same dwarf "homo floresensis", despite the scarcity of resources, apparently did not indulge in cannibalism - it ate exclusively the fruits of nature and what it hunted (the same giant rats and dwarf elephants).

    Quote: King, just king
    Savages, they won and Cook

    Here’s the problem - the savages who ate Captain Cook, as it were, they seem to have little in common with our ancestors. Genetics is such an amazing weight. But with the Denisovites (the recently discovered oldest third race, except for homo sapiens and homo neanderthalien), there is a kinship. And the Denisovites also have clear signs of cannibalism, although Neander is the undisputed leader.

    Quote: Cartalon
    I will not say anything about granite, but the pyramids did not appear from scratch, their evolution can be traced and unsuccessful buildings were, everything is somewhat simpler and more mundane.
    So says traditional Egyptology. And there are so many problems in it. Artificially hushed up. About cardinal ideological crises, accompanied by genocide, I already answered my friend above.

    For example, a simple question: if the pharaohs of the 4th dynasty really built the best in quality and the most giant pyramids in size, then why there is no evidence of these buildings?

    And most importantly, why in the pyramids there are no names of pharaohs and stories about their deeds carved by THE SAME TECHNOLOGY? only paint was used and that’s it. Well this is nonsense - if I can build a pyramid, why would I primitively draw hieroglyphs on the walls? I'd rather fuck the bas-relief on the floor of the wall! - as the Egyptians did by the way. But not here.

    And in dating the pyramids and their alleged belonging to a certain pharaoh there are a lot of questions. ABOUT WHICH JUST DO NOT SPEAK, but this is not good.

    For example, there was such a pharaoh Snofru (aka Nebmaat). So, official Egyptology he is credited with the construction of ALREADY FOUR GIANT PYRAMIDS - in Meidum, "Broken" and "Pink" in Dakhshur and the fourth in Sale !!! Each of which, in general, is so large that Cheops and Chefren would be proud of them - each individually! And he is credited with the construction of ALL these pyramids simply because the INSCRIPTIONS (not even reliefs!) Were found inside these pyramids with the approximate content "here would be Sneferu". Like this ! Of course, I'm greatly simplifying, but I clearly describe the essence of the phenomenon and not a single Egyptologist will say that I distorted the facts.

    I emphasize once again - I am not an alternativeist, I am a supporter of professional Egyptology, but a supporter of a genuinely scientific, not scientifically, approach.

    Here is a photo of the Pink or Red Pyramid attributed to Snofru in Dakhshur. In volume, it alone (!!!) is second only to the great pyramids of Cheops and Chephren.
  24. King, just king
    King, just king 30 March 2016 10: 33
    0
    Quote: Warrior2015
    Yes, that's just probably not. It depends on who is considered whom. If we talk about a kind of "proto-civilization of mammoth hunters" (approximately from the Czech Republic to the north of the Russian Plain, from Předomosty to Kostenki in general), then there are NO traces of cannibalism THERE. Generally. Although with neanderts they cut like a lot.



    I propose to round. And then we will be up to the carrot conspiracy - ate - no, I didn’t eat.

    On the pyramids. I have a book, an old one still, 1986, Zamarovsky. Their Majesties the pyramids. And he bought it. Very interesting, about almost all the pyramids. Read.
  25. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 30 March 2016 18: 54
    +1
    Quote: King, just king
    I have a book, an old one, 1986

    I have read a lot of literature on this subject, and the outdated Soviet work is hardly the best compared to the really recent work in the field of Egyptology. Just a very clear trend is seen: the emergence of superstructures with excellent technology - and attempts to use these structures by the first pharaohs "for their funeral needs", and then miserable attempts to repeat the unique ...

    Just for thought - there is a very reasoned position, according to which the dating of the Djoser pyramid is completely different, it is not practically the oldest known, but much younger.
  26. 0000
    0000 30 March 2016 19: 52
    0
    Quote: Cartalon
    Absolutely surreal mega-structures ... Literally from scratch ...


    can’t imagine how close you were to the truth wink