Military Review

Thank you, General Graves!

57
Major General William Sydney Graves (William Sidney Graves, 1865 — 1940) commanded the US expeditionary force corps in Siberia in 1918 — 1920. After retirement, the general — an honest American soldier, for whom the interests of his country and his people stood above all else — wrote the book America's Siberian Adventure (1918 — 1920). It was even published here - in 1932, with a circulation of 5000 copies. Since then, it is often remembered and sometimes quoted in pieces, but in general, I could not find it in Russian; and reading is very interesting.


Especially in view of today.

Thank you, General Graves!


Therefore, I decided to collect a selection of the most informative moments from the book. My translation may not be perfect; I will finish it to the best of my strength and desire. If you wish, you can find the original text of quotes in my English-language blog; if you want to clarify or correct something - you are welcome. The full text of the distinguished general’s Siberian memories lies here.

How fortunate that our revolutionary great-grandfathers withstood, did not give up and won, did not allow the victory of the whites in the Civil War in general and the notorious admiral in particular. Happiness for all; even for those who are now thoughtfully telling about the victory of the "red-headed louts" and "Jewish commissars", longing for the crunch of the French roll.

* * *
Admiral Kolchak surrounded himself with former tsarist officials, and since the peasants did not want to take weapon and sacrifice their lives for the return of these people to power, they were beaten, whipped and coolly killed by thousands, after which the world called them "Bolsheviks". In Siberia, the word “Bolshevik” means a person who does not in word or deed support the return to power in Russia of representatives of autocracy.

* * *
The soldiers of Semenov and Kalmykov, under the protection of Japanese troops, roamed the country like wild beasts, killing and robbing people; if Japan wished, these killings could have stopped in a day. If there were questions about these brutal murders, the answer was that the dead were Bolsheviks, and this explanation obviously suited the world quite well. The conditions in Eastern Siberia were terrible, and there was nothing cheaper than human life.

Terrible murders were committed there, but they were not committed by the Bolsheviks as the world thinks. I would be far from any exaggeration if I say that for every one killed by the Bolsheviks in Eastern Siberia there are one hundred killed by anti-Bolsheviks.

* * *
It is hard to imagine a human being like Kalmykov existing in modern civilization; there was hardly a day without reports of the terrible atrocities committed by him and his troops.

* * *
Kalmykov remained in Khabarovsk and established his regime of terror, violence and bloodshed, which, in the end, forced his own troops to revolt and seek protection from the American army. Under the pretext of fighting Bolshevism, he groundlessly arrested many wealthy people, tortured them to get their money, and executed many on charges of Bolshevism. These arrests were so frequent that they intimidated all classes of the population; It is estimated that Kalmykov troops executed several hundred people in the vicinity of Khabarovsk.

* * *
It is surprising that the officers of the Russian Tsarist Army did not realize the need for changes in the practice used by the army during the Tsarist regime. The atrocities committed east of Lake Baikal were so startling that they did not leave an unbiased person doubt in the veracity of many reports of excesses.

* * *
Opinions of Russian monarchists about ethical methods of seeking funding are characterized by the following: Col. Korf, a Russian liaison officer with the American command, told US intelligence officer Colonel Eichelberger that General Ivanov-Rinov and General Romanovsky have enough power to stop a wave of criticism like me and all Americans, and American politics, and if I secured twenty thousand dollars a month for the financing of the Russian army by the United States, propaganda against the Americans will be rekraschena.

* * *
In March a young woman, a village teacher, came to the headquarters of the American troops. She asked for protection for herself and her brothers so that they could return to their village, Gordiyevka, and bury their father, who was killed by the troops of Ivanov-Rinov. The woman said that the Russian troops came to Gordiyevka in search of young men for forced conscription, but the young people fled, and then the troops detained ten men in the village, whose age was higher than the draft, tortured and killed them, and put guards on the bodies in order not to relatives bury them. It sounded so cruel and unnatural, that I ordered one officer with a small detachment to go to Gordiyevka and conduct an investigation, and notified the woman about her intentions.

The officer sent for investigation reported the following:

Upon arrival at the Gordian school building, I was greeted by a crowd of 70 or 80 men, all armed with rifles, mostly Russian army rifles, as well as some old single-shot rifles of the 45 — 70 caliber. All the information I collected was obtained in the presence of these 70 or 80 armed villagers and roughly 25 or 30 women. Most of the information obtained from the wives of the victims, these women many times lost their feelings during this ordeal for them. The first interrogator said that her husband went to school with his rifle in order to surrender it to the Russian military in accordance with the order. He was seized outside, beaten with his own rifle on the head and torso, and then taken to a house near the school, where he was tied with his hands tied by the neck to the pin in the rafters and badly beaten on the torso and head until blood spattered even the walls of the room . The marks on his body showed me that he was also hung by the legs.

Later he was put in a row with eight other men and shot at 14: 00. There were ten men in the line, all but one were killed, whom the soldiers of Ivanov-Rinov left to die. Next, I interrogated a woman in whose house everyone was beaten, and then shot behind her threshing floor. She said that on the morning of March 9 1919 near 11: 00 several officers Ivanova-Rinova came to her house and forced her to take her husband to another house, but on 11: 30 took her husband back and beat him along with the rest; his arm was broken, his nails were cut off and all his front teeth were knocked out. Her husband was disabled and crippled.

The officer also added:

I found that the floor of the room in which these men were beaten was covered in blood, and all its walls were spattered with blood. The wire and rope loops that tied their necks still hung from the ceiling and were covered in blood. I also found that some of the men were doused with boiling water and burned with red-hot irons, heated in a small stove, which I found in the room.

I visited the place where these men were shot. They were lined up and shot, at least three bullet holes in each body, some six or more in some. Obviously, they were first shot in the feet, and then higher in the body.

The young officer who conducted the investigation received and included in his report a lot more testimony, and those testimonies that I don’t quote cite in all details with those quoted.

This case seemed so disgusting to me that I ordered the officer to report to me personally. He was not a cadre, he was called up for the duration of the war. I will never forget the words of this officer, which he told me after I finished interviewing him. He declared:

General, for God's sake, do not send me more on such expeditions. I barely restrained myself from taking off my uniform, joining these unfortunates and helping them with everything that was in my power.

* * *
Turning to those fellow citizens who believe that it is necessary to fight Bolshevism, regardless of US policy, I note that I could never determine who exactly was a Bolshevik and why he was one. According to the Japanese representatives and their paid puppets in Siberia, the Bolsheviks were all Russians who did not want to take up arms and fight for Semenov, Kalmykov, Rozanov, Ivanov-Rinov; and after all in criminal archives of the USA you will not find characters worse. According to the British and French representatives, the Bolsheviks were all who did not want to take up arms and fight for Kolchak.

* * *
Military uniforms mobilized Russian mostly provided by the British. General Knox (Knox) ​​stated that Britain had supplied the Kolchak forces with a hundred thousand sets of uniforms. This is partly confirmed by the number of Red Army soldiers wearing the British uniform. The fact that the Reds wear the British uniform, caused General Knox such disgust that, as reported, he later said that Britain should deliver nothing to Kolchak, because everything supplied comes from the Bolsheviks. Generally speaking, the soldiers of the Red Army in the British uniform were the same soldiers who were given this uniform while they were in the Kolchak army. A significant part of these soldiers was not inclined to fight for Kolchak.

The methods used by Kolchak to mobilize Siberians evoked rage that is difficult to calm. They went to the service, embittered by fear, but not in front of the enemy, but in front of their own troops. As a result, after issuing weapons and uniforms, they deserted regiments, battalions, and one by one to the Bolsheviks.

9 April 1919, I reported:

The number of so-called Bolshevik gangs in Eastern Siberia has increased as a result of the order of mobilization and emergency methods used in its conduct. The peasants and the working class do not want to fight for the Kolchak government.

* * *
The harsh measures applied by the tsarist regime to prevent escapes of prisoners did not disappear even by the time I passed through Irkutsk. I saw about twenty prisoners who had healthy chains chained to their ankles and large balls attached to the end of them; so that the prisoner could go, he needed to carry the ball in his hand.

* * *
In Krasnoyarsk, I learned something about General Rozanov, with whom I tried to work in Vladivostok. He was the same man who 27 March 1919, ordered his troops:

1. When occupying villages previously occupied by bandits (guerrillas), to demand the issuance of leaders of the movement; where you can not capture the leaders, but have sufficient evidence of their presence, shoot every tenth resident.

If during the movement of troops through the city, the population, having the opportunity, does not report the presence of the enemy, all are required to receive monetary compensation without restriction.

Villages where the population meets our troops with weapons should be burned to the ground, all adult men should be shot; property, houses, carts should be requisitioned for use by the army.

We learned that Rozanov was holding hostages, and for every supporter who met death, he killed ten hostages. He spoke about these methods used in Krasnoyarsk as working with the situation with gloves, but declared his intention to take off gloves after arriving in Vladivostok in order to work with the situation without the restraint that he demonstrated to Krasnoyarsk people ...

Rozanov was the third abominable character of those I knew in Siberia, although the level of Kalmykov and Semyonov was unattainable for him.

* * *
In order to mark the fighting efficiency of the Kolchak troops in August 1919, I will try to analyze the official messages that came to me. One of the reports read:

It is estimated that, with the exception of officials and the military, the Omsk government supports no more than 5% of the population. It is estimated that reds support around 45%, socialist revolutionaries around 40%, about 10% divided among other parties, and 5% remains on the military, officials and supporters of Kolchak.

From that time until the fall of the Omsk government, Kolchak's army was a retreating gang.

* * *
The Ambassador and I traveled from Omsk to Vladivostok around 10 August. We stayed in Novonikolayevsk, Irkutsk, Verkhneudinsk and Harbin. Until we were on the territory of Semenov, nothing interesting happened. By this time, it was well known that Semenov had organized what was known as the “station of murders”, and openly boasted that he could not sleep if during the day at least he had not killed someone.

We stopped at a small station, and two Americans from the Russian Railway Service Corps climbed our train. They told us about the murder of soldiers Semenov two or three days before our arrival, a whole train of Russians, in which there were 350 people. I do not remember, there were only men, or also women.

The Americans reported the following:

An echelon of prisoners passed through the station, and everyone at the station knew that they would be killed. Corps officers headed to the place of execution, but were stopped by Semyonov's soldiers. After one hour and fifty minutes, the empty train returned to the station. The next day, the two went to the scene of the murder and saw evidence of a mass execution. It was clear from the cartridges on the ground that the prisoners were shot with machine guns: the cartridge cartridges lay in heaps in the places where machine guns were throwing them. The bodies were in two recently dug ditches. In one ditch the bodies were completely covered with earth, in the other one could see a lot of arms and legs.

* * *
I doubt that in stories For the last half-century, there will be at least one country in the world where murders would be carried out more calmly and with less fear of punishment than it was in Siberia under the regime of Admiral Kolchak. One example of cruelty and lawlessness in Siberia is a typical case in Omsk, the Kolchak residence that took place on December 22 on December 1918, just a month and four days after Kolchak accepted the authority of the “Supreme Ruler”. On this day, an uprising of workers against the Kolchak government occurred in Omsk. The revolutionaries partially succeeded, opened a prison and allowed two hundred arrested to escape.

Among them, 134 were political prisoners, including several members of the Constituent Assembly. On the day when it happened, the Omsk commander-in-chief of Kolchak issued an order demanding to return to prison from all those released, and declared that those who did not return within a day would be killed on the spot. All members of the Constituent Assembly and a number of other well-known political prisoners returned to prison. On the same night, several Kolchak officers removed the members of the Constituent Assembly from prison, telling them that they would be taken to the place of their trial for the crimes they were accused of, and they all were shot dead. For this cruel and lawless murder of the officers, there was nothing. Conditions in Siberia were such that such atrocities could easily be hidden from the world.

The foreign press constantly maintained that it was the Bolsheviks who were the Russians who had committed these terrible excesses, and the propaganda was so active that no one could even think that these atrocities were committed against the Bolsheviks.

* * *
Colonel Morrow (Morrow), who commanded the American troops in the Trans-Baikal sector, reported on the most cruel, heartless and almost unbelievable murder of the whole village of Semyonov. When his troops approached the village, the residents apparently tried to escape from their homes, but the soldiers of Semyonov shot at them - men, women and children - as if they were hunting rabbit, and threw their bodies at the scene of the murder. They shot not just one, but everyone in this village.

Colonel Morrow forced the Japanese and the French to go with an American officer to investigate this massacre, and the story I told is contained in a report signed by an American, a Frenchman and a Japanese. In addition to the above, the officers reported that they had found the bodies of four or five men who were obviously burned alive.

People naturally wondered what could be the goal of such horrendous killings. The goal is similar to the reason that camp guards keep dog hunters and use other means of intimidating prisoners; to prevent escape attempts. In Siberia, the persecuted people were not prisoners, but those responsible for these horrors were convinced that all Russians should at least act as if they sincerely supported Kolchak's cause. Such an appeal sometimes succeeded in temporarily causing people to hide their true moods. That is how it was in Siberia, and I am convinced that the Americans do not know anything about these terrible conditions.

* * *
When the Americans first got to Siberia, most of us, naturally, expected that the experience of war and revolution changed the mindset of the government from the former ruling class, but when this ruling class began to commit horrendous atrocities in Siberia, to allow them and indulge them, they haven't learned anything.

* * *
Vladivostok was well aware that from November 18 1919 of the year to 31 of January 1920, Rozanov killed between five hundred and six hundred men without commenting on his killings. At first, a decision was made on execution, then a military tribunal was going to legalize the planned murder; This was the method Rozanov used. This procedure was well known in Vladivostok; in one case, I personally verified the accuracy of the information at the request of a Russian woman who lived at one time in New York.

* * *
General Knox served in Russia as a military attache under the tsarist regime. He could speak Russian and, undoubtedly, thought he understood the Russians. He probably understood the character and peculiarities of those Russians with whom he was associated in Petrograd, but I cannot believe that he understood the aspirations of the great mass of the Russian people. If he understood these people, he probably would not have thought - and he obviously thought so - that Russian peasants and workers would take up arms and fight to bring supporters of Kolchak to commit such atrocities. against those people who were looking for military support. General Knox shared with me his thought: "The poor Russians were just pigs."

Personally, I never thought that Kolchak had at least some chance to establish a government in Siberia, but Knox and others like him believed that the masses were pigs, and they could be treated like pigs, precipitated Kolchak’s fall.
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  1. Scraptor
    Scraptor 31 January 2016 06: 59 New
    -23 qualifying.
    Trunks seized red. This American general walked around the territories they occupied and therefore did not see what the Red Terror was.
    Someone Trotsky who was not Russian but American was led and directed by them.
    1. lame
      lame 31 January 2016 08: 21 New
      15
      So after all, was the Red Terror secondary? That is, in fact, a retaliatory measure?
      1. Sakmagon
        Sakmagon 31 January 2016 09: 19 New
        18
        "If one hundred million Russians do not want" whites ", but want" red ", it is useless to help the" white ".
        W. Churchill
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 31 January 2016 17: 51 New
          +2
          Churchill better write about England.
        2. Cap.Morgan
          Cap.Morgan 31 January 2016 18: 00 New
          +1
          Churchill helped the Reds.
          The Reds were negotiable.
          They ceded territories, offered concessions. They were more comfortable with the Americans.
      2. Scraptor
        Scraptor 31 January 2016 17: 51 New
        0
        In fact, n began before the revolution. You can compare the number of hanged red terrorists and their victims.
    2. avt
      avt 31 January 2016 10: 59 New
      +5
      [quote = Scraptor] Trunks seized red. This American general walked around the territories they occupied and therefore did not see what the Red Terror was. [/ Quote] fool
      I would write right away - "Surkov's propaganda", but the truth is shown in the "documentary" film "Admiral" wassat [quote = Sakmagon] "If a hundred million Russians do not want" whites ", but want" reds ", it is useless to help the" whites ".
      1. mihasik
        mihasik 31 January 2016 12: 46 New
        +5
        Quote: avt
        , but the truth is shown in the "documentary" film "Admiral"

        And now the question: "Who and for what purpose is deliberately distorting history?"
        They are imposing Russian "heroes" on us, who were no different from the Nazis and Bandera supporters of the last century. I wonder what kind of young people will grow up on such films? Taking into account the reformatting of consciousness by the "progressive" education of Mr. Livanov, who is from the team of the next "teacher" Mr. Medvedev, who again became "at the helm" under the patronage of Mr. Putin, are we preparing an army of "goblins"?
        Putin said that Lenin was to blame for the collapse of the USSR. And who then was to blame for the collapse of the Russian Empire, for some reason he modestly kept silent. Probably in connection with the "heroes" cultivated by the current government like Kolchak?
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 31 January 2016 17: 56 New
          +1
          Lenin is also his partner, the Kaiser who gave half-and-half with the Soyuznegs a sealed phagon of money for the revolution, and who else? Write also that the Tsar shot himself and his family and then left the 19th floor and closed the window behind him from the inside ...
        2. Cap.Morgan
          Cap.Morgan 31 January 2016 18: 02 New
          0
          Lenin is to blame. His propaganda and his followers.
          He certainly was not alone. There were still Socialist-Revolutionaries and Anarchists.
      2. Scraptor
        Scraptor 31 January 2016 17: 53 New
        +1
        propaganda are usually films made to order
    3. erg
      erg 31 January 2016 14: 41 New
      +3
      Perhaps you would be right, but the same thing as the American general was described in his memoirs by one of the associates of Admiral Kolchak, Lieutenant General Alexei Pavlovich Brudberg. Minister of War at Kolchak. Composition - Diary of the White Guard.
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 1 February 2016 00: 10 New
        -2
        Is Brudberg such a Russian surname?
        1. erg
          erg 1 February 2016 07: 25 New
          +4
          He is from Livonia. And the Russian general. In our country, the majority of the population has surnames and names formed from borrowed concepts and words. The difference is only in time. Some came to us in earlier times, some in later. Especially the names that appeared with us much later than the names, and even that is mainly thanks to the state. authorities. My surname is of Latin origin. So maybe I should not be considered Russian, but a Roman?
          1. Scraptor
            Scraptor 1 February 2016 07: 46 New
            -2
            Russian. And surely Russophile, like most of you? lol You can be considered a Russian. Or a Tatar latin ...
            1. erg
              erg 1 February 2016 09: 20 New
              +2
              In a multinational state, neither the origin of the surname, nor your family name matters. Especially if for several centuries your ancestors have been living on this land and serving it, absorbing its culture and not separating themselves from the rest of the people. Do you really think that the very fact of origin from a different nationality than the state-forming people means the presence of hatred towards the latter? And a Jew or a German born in Russia must necessarily not love Russians? Forgive me, but this is the position of a stupid cattle, the same from which at one time, well-known people in Germany recruited their attack aircraft. Do you want to rank yourself among them? " Good luck to you.
              1. Scraptor
                Scraptor 4 February 2016 09: 46 New
                0
                Go say it to the Tatars ... and do not forget about cattle. Only whom do you bequeath to grandfather's gun first write. laughing
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 October 2016 15: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: Scraptor
          Is Brudberg such a Russian surname?

          Yeah, like Bering. Or Barclay de Tolly and Totleben.
  2. 505506
    505506 31 January 2016 07: 14 New
    +3
    This is for those who yearn for Russia "which we have lost" ©. In Siberia, long after the Civil War, Kolchak did not evoke hatred except.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 31 January 2016 07: 52 New
      0
      This is the one from whom some "white" -czechs have taken away all the gold?
      1. captain
        captain 31 January 2016 10: 50 New
        -1
        The article appeared on time. Only the lazy did not write about the atrocities of the Russians in Syria, on the beloved author of the West. Now it was necessary to find the roots of these atrocities and they were found. The author quoted the memoirs of General Graves. This general was sent to the Far East, good Uncle Sam. I did not know that the United States cared so much about the Russian peasants that they sent a whole expeditionary corps to protect them, not only to the Far East, but also to Murmansk. Judging by the admiration of the author of the article, it is necessary now to send Uncle Sam's troops to Russia, it is better to go straight to Moscow, to protect people like the author from the authoritarian regime of Putin. An article about the atrocities of our volunteers and "vacationers" in Donbass will soon appear. There are already articles in the Western press about the atrocities of our Russian military in Crimea. There are articles and films about the atrocities of the NKVD. There is a lot of writing about the rape of 100 thousand. German women in Berlin in May 45. Apparently the author will soon say thank you to these scribblers. Basically, these articles and films are made under the patronage of the United States. The author licked the Russophobes in time and, most importantly, he played very well on the side of the Communists. Why did the United States send troops to Russia, you can find and read, and then draw conclusions, it is worth saying thanks to this general or not. I think it's not worth saying thank you to the general who intervened in our civil war. I expressed my opinion here and I think the author wrote the article on request, in the West they are now branding Russia with might and main and throw mud at its history, the author helped.
        1. avt
          avt 31 January 2016 11: 09 New
          12
          Quote: captain
          . The author cited the memoirs of General Graves. This general was sent to the Far East by the good uncle Sam.

          And what's the trouble then? Well, the author brought the Yankees diaries, so what? Too lazy to look for how the Angles and Americans created concentration camps for those accused of Bolshevism? In the north on Mudyug, in Vladivostok in Russian.
          Quote: captain
          . I expressed my opinion here and I think the author wrote an article by order, in the West now they are branding Russia with might and main and pouring mud on its history, the author helped.

          Yeah - the author has stained the white clothes of the "warriors of light", sprinkled it with red. Watch Mikhalkov's films less, well, all of his "Tired by the Sun", or else, "Sunstroke" will be enough. And yet - within the framework of such a politically correct political expediency , in the USSR it was hushed up WHAT the punitive Nazi accomplices in the same Belarus did, well, the Ukrainian Nazis and the Baltic, and what this led to - see the present-day Ukraine.
          1. captain
            captain 31 January 2016 11: 40 New
            +2
            Quote avt: "Yeah, the author has stained the white clothes of 2 warriors of the world", sprinkled them with red ... "I understand you, your hatred for the Russians has apparently gone so far that you are even ready to support the villains. Regarding" an honest American general, you can read in the 1935 issue "On the Atrocities of the American Expeditionary Force". "... The archives and newspaper publications of that time to this day contain evidence of how the Yankees, having arrived far away from the land, ruled our land, leaving a bloody trail in the fate of the Russian people and in the history of Primorye. So, for example, having captured the peasants I. Gonevchuk, S. Gorshkov, P. Oparin and Z. Murashko, the Americans buried them alive for their connection with local partisans. and with knives: “the nose, lips, ears were cut off, the jaw was knocked out, the face and eyes were stabbed with bayonets, the whole body was cut up.” At the station of Sviyagino, partisan N. Myasnikov was tortured in the same brutal way, who, according to an eyewitness, “was first chopped off ears, then nose, arms, legs, chopped to pieces alive ”.
            “In the spring of 1919, a punitive expedition of the interventionists appeared in the village, inflicting reprisals against those who were suspected of sympathizing with the partisans,” testified a resident of the village of Kharitonovka, Shkotovsky district, A.Khortov. - The punishers arrested many peasants as hostages and demanded to hand over the partisans, threatening to be shot (...) The executioners-interventionists fiercely dealt with the innocent peasants-hostages. Among them was my elderly father Philip Hortov. He was brought home bloodied. He was still alive for several days, all the time repeating: "Why have they tortured me, damned animals ?!" My father died, leaving five orphans. Several times American soldiers appeared in our village and each time they made arrests of residents, robberies, and murders. In the summer of 1919, American and Japanese punishers staged a public flogging of the peasant Pavel Kuzikov with ramrods and whips. An American non-commissioned officer stood nearby and, smiling, flicked the camera. Ivan Kravchuk and three other guys from Vladivostok were suspected of being connected with partisans, they were tortured for several days. They knocked out their teeth, cut off their tongues. " Good luck to you in your hatred of the Russians, as Lenin said there; "even with the devil, even with the devil alliance, just to achieve the goal."
            1. avt
              avt 31 January 2016 11: 57 New
              +8
              Quote: captain
              .. "I understand you, your hatred of the Russians has apparently gone so far that you are even ready to support the villains.

              "Russians" are they what? Who are like Mikhalkov's in the cinema? Like who missed the lordly whip and daydreams "The Russia we lost" Govorukhinskaya is truly "Russian"? True, Govorukhin himself called the "creative intelligentsia" prostitutes, and when asked "And you?" Replied that he, too, and the film would not have made a film now in the XNUMXs. Why did you stick to the author because of one title? He DID EVERYTHING RIGHT! He brought the enemy's diaries, which you cannot dismiss - this is all Surkov propaganda "
              Quote: captain
              ... Good luck to you in your hatred of the Russians, as Lenin said there; "even with the devil, even with the devil alliance, just to achieve the goal."

              wassat Well, what can you say, only if Bulgakov's performed by Ulyanov in the role of General Chernoti - “Well, Paramon! I would be a sinful person on purpose to enroll in the Bolsheviks, I would shoot you and immediately sign out back. "The campaign is not cured and you only read what you like and discard the rest. Before you start to write
              Quote: captain
              ... As for the "honest American general, you can read in the 1935 issue" On the Atrocities of the American Expeditionary Force ".

              Just pay attention to
              Quote: avt
              Too lazy to look for how the Angles and Americans created concentration camps for those accused of Bolshevism? In the north on Mudyug, in Vladivostok in Russian.

              But this campaign is not interesting to Mr. ,, captain ".... and after taking a bite the bit was carried over the bumps in denouncing another ,, foreigner" wassat revealed by the astral-Internet method, well, your "iron" Felix is ​​resting! Well, your will, go ahead - search and brand on, non-Russian infidels "until one remains true" Russian ".
              1. captain
                captain 31 January 2016 12: 40 New
                +3
                I put you a plus for your savagery. I just wrote that there were films about the atrocities of the NKVD and the rape of 100.tys. Germans by Soviet soldiers. Currently, Western ideologists are trying to prove Russian barbarism to the whole world. In any system, at any historical time. You are helping them hard.
                1. avt
                  avt 31 January 2016 13: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: captain
                  I put you a plus for your savagery.

                  Take friendly advice - don’t try to compete with me on the part of sarcastic comments, it won’t work out, but you yourself will definitely leave the emotional balance, it’s just not yours, well, it’s not ready. And if I carry it, I’ll offend childishly. Is that necessary? Well, if you really want to, then as they say in the language of a probable friend - well. laughing
                  Quote: captain
                  . Currently, Western ideologists are trying to prove Russian barbarism to the whole world. In any system, at any historical time. You are helping them hard.

                  laughing As the RUSSIAN proverb says - "Who is talking about what, and crummy about the bathhouse", I can find an analogue to the English move, but honestly - I’m too lazy to get a reference book, I have one from Soviet times left. You will understand the causal relationship then, then quite yourself make sure that, by and large, the diary entries of the usovskiy general are a sincere confession in the protection and practically organization, together with the Japanese, of these very specific atrocities. What I tried to get through by mentioning
                  Quote: avt
                  how did the Angles and Americans create concentration camps for those accused of Bolshevism? In the north on Mudyug, in Vladivostok in Russian.

                  and giving the following example
                  Quote: avt
                  , in the USSR it was hushed up WHAT the punishers from Nazi accomplices did in the same Belarus, well, the Ukrainian Nazis and the Baltic, and what this led to - see to today's Ukraine.

                  And if you really want to, you will find that the United States is the birthplace of the world's first death camps, which appeared in North America during the civil war between the North and South. Abraham Lincoln's supporters, no matter how they tried to whitewash them, showed no less cruelty than Jefferson Davis's supporters. And this experience, they not only transferred the Angles to the future South Africa and Russia, but also impregnated Hitler with it. So if not you can build a causal relationship, then this is your problem, and not those around you, whom you strive to turn your lack of understanding into a problem.
              2. Scraptor
                Scraptor 31 January 2016 17: 58 New
                -1
                Among the Reds, Russians (fools) were in the minority; in the NKVD they were not at all.
                1. 2news
                  2news 31 January 2016 18: 18 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Scraptor
                  Among the Reds, Russians (fools) were in the minority; in the NKVD they were not at all.

                  But what about one of the most important executioners of the NKVD Blokhin?
                  “Vasily Blokhin is the chief executioner of the NKVD, the“ record holder ”: they believe that during the years of his“ work ”he personally shot from 10000 to 50000 people! Could "execute" 200 people in a day ... "
                  ... personally shot many famous prisoners, including Mikhail Tukhachevsky, Ion Yakir, Uborevich, I. Smilga, L. Karakhan, Quiring, Chubar, A. Kosarev, Kosior, N. Yezhov, Frinovsky, Mikhail Koltsov, Isaac Babel, Vsevolod Meyerhold and others.
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%B8%D0%BD,_%D0%92%D0%B0

                  %D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%

                  D0%B8%D1%87_%28%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%29
                  1. Scraptor
                    Scraptor 31 January 2016 21: 52 New
                    0
                    And so - for ideological reasons. Why would the NKVD be Russian after the anti-Russian revolution?
                    About Evsyukov, too, at first they wrote in Wikipedia that he was Russian ...
                  2. Scraptor
                    Scraptor 1 February 2016 00: 21 New
                    0
                    Followed the link, there it is written further
                    Quote: 2news
                    ... personally shot about 7000 Poles ("Katyn execution") [6]

                    What are these posts for? And another 7000 Poles must have been shot there in 1941 by a certain chief hauptman Maggo, and he was also Russian?

                    In general, the next millions shot personally by Stalin,

                    but a certain fellow demon with the Russian surname "Zemlyachka" is a completely historical person and her granddaughters are now provoking the people.
                    1. 2news
                      2news 1 February 2016 01: 53 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      What are these posts for?

                      Why postscripts? Blokhin received the Order of the Red Banner for this. According to Wiki (ibid., Link).
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      And another 7000 Poles must have been shot there in 1941 by a certain chief hauptman Maggo, and he was also Russian?

                      Do not fantasize. He by that time had already been dismissed from the NKVD.
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      In general, the next millions shot personally by Stalin,

                      What is this for? To the rain?
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      but someone comrade demon with the Russian surname "Zemlyachka" is a completely historical person

                      Surname so-called "Compatriots" Zalkind.
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      and her grandson is now provoking the people.

                      If you are talking about Udaltsov, then this is most likely a rumor. It is only known for certain that Udaltsov is the great-grandson of that Udaltsov, by whose name the street in Moscow is named.
                      In addition, he is currently sitting (I could be wrong). If this is so, then he can only "provoke the people" within the confines of his cell.
                      1. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 1 February 2016 05: 51 New
                        +2
                        Moreover, the Germans shot in the Katyn Poles in 1941.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. Pre-cat
                    Pre-cat 1 February 2016 06: 54 New
                    +1
                    Could fulfill 200 people in a day? Let each 10 minutes. 200 times 10ooo minutes or 2 hours. 33 hours a day. AND? No breaks, breaks for sleep and food? Iron people, these executioners from the NKVD! laughing
                    1. 2news
                      2news 1 February 2016 09: 30 New
                      +1
                      Quote: The cat is half-educated
                      Let each 10 minutes.

                      Why 10 minutes, not 10 hours? Why not 1 minute? The figure was invented so that the result does not agree?
                      For 3 minutes per person, for a "10 hour shift" just 200 people are obtained. He tried, he rose to the rank of general. He had a bunch of orders. Combat and labor.
            2. andrew42
              andrew42 1 February 2016 20: 26 New
              +3
              I support. The atrocities of the interventionists in the Far East, namely atrocities, have clear confirmation. It is about the "troops" of this very Graves. It’s easy to understand why "honest" Graves is confessing about the atrocities of whites - so that his own flagrant crimes remain in the shadows. The Russian North also sipped its grief from the "civilized" invaders. The fact that the Russians slashed the Russians furiously is also a fact. Mutual bitterness reached mind-boggling levels. But not the Graves to broadcast about it. And yet again about the meat grinder catalyst - these are the red commissars. They, and only they, are the organizers of this all-destroying turmoil. Trotsky did not hesitate to talk about it. This is understandable, as a result of the Civil War, the "new elite" of the Trotskyists felt themselves victors, new Masters. So who do we believe, the word of Leiba Bronstein from the first lips, or the notes of General Graves, who washed the bloody armbands? The author's "captaincy of evidence" is amazing. The peasants of Siberia did not want to fight for Kolchak! - Well, yes, many did not want to. And what, in Ukraine now there are many who want to stand up for the children of Donbass? Author from what planet? From which of the higher worlds? but the Izhevsk and Votkinsk workers for some reason stood up under the banner of Kappel. And that's a fact. I'm not rehabilitating whites, no. I am opposed to once again stigmatizing Ivan in uniform, as well as Ivan with a red armband. The organizer of their fight stood aside, and collected gesheft.
        2. Idiot
          Idiot 2 February 2016 13: 12 New
          +2
          In Berlin, Soviet soldiers raped 2 million Germans, Germans and their pets. This is a reliable fact, one grandmother said. And films are being made. Our actors, great patriots of Russia, play there: Sidikhin, Guskov ... Apparently, money does not smell, but children need to be fed. One patriotic actor, in my opinion Serebryakov, even left for Canada, said that he did not want his children to communicate with Russian cattle, which, however, did not prevent him from periodically filming with Russian directors, who were also patriots. For example, in the film "Leviathan", the plot of which is taken from American reality, but for some reason the action takes place in the Russian outback.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 31 January 2016 11: 57 New
        +2
        Scrapor
        Your squirrels also got a lot of business there.

        1. avt
          avt 31 January 2016 12: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Your squirrels also got a lot of business there.

          Yes-ah! These "brothers Slavs" frolicked heartily in the open spaces from the Volga region to Vladivostok, and even packed tightly with gold, one bank of "Legia" was worth! took into account future supplies of weapons, and threw them, even in agreement with the same Czechs - they handed over to the Bolsheviks, the ends are in the water. And now someone is making glitches - the Kolchakites have drowned their main capital in gold, well, in addition to the hijacked echelon by partisans, somewhere on Baikal - it is necessary to dive! laughing And "dive" it is necessary in Japanese bank documents .... well, maybe in safes fumbled. Although it is vryatli. Here is the gold that V. Ulyanov he Lenin handed over to the Germans, for reparations they took away francs, for more and for debt obligations of the king they made So most likely the gold that Kolchak handed over to the Japanese probably overseas at Fort Knox, or from the Rockefellers in private use.
        2. Scraptor
          Scraptor 31 January 2016 17: 59 New
          0
          why immediately mine? tell me how a Slav is a Slav, can you at least be here among the descendants of Voikov who comment here is one Russian man? wassat
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 31 January 2016 19: 06 New
            +2
            It seemed to me that you sympathize with the whites. If not, please excuse me. And by the way, I'm Russian. As for my nickname, this is in memory of my grandfather.
            1. Scraptor
              Scraptor 31 January 2016 22: 22 New
              +1
              Why would sympathize with those who betrayed the whites and stole all the steam locomotives (and all that), after which until the spring along the entire transsib there were trains filled with frozen people?
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 31 January 2016 08: 21 New
    +4
    We even published it in 1932, with a circulation of 5000 copies.... Now, a bibliographic rarity .. second-hand bookkeepers shrug .. And for modern publishers this is not a format .. Thank you ..
  4. 0895055116
    0895055116 31 January 2016 08: 42 New
    +3
    I would recommend publishing this book in as large a circulation as possible! It is also necessary to make it read ALL the numerous monarchists and other lovers of the "white" movement! I am not claiming that there was no "red" terror, but I believe that it was only a response to the white terror.
    1. captain
      captain 31 January 2016 11: 44 New
      +4
      I recommend reading: "Foreign invaders in Soviet Russia", released in 1935, tells about the methods used by the liberators - cut families, pregnant women whose breasts were cut off, babies were removed from their bellies, five-year-old children were hanged ... Here is another interesting material on this topic (plus there are about 30 photographs of American warriors):

      ... The Americans also noted here (and where did they stick their nose?), Leaving an unkind memory of themselves, which, alas, our current youth, brought up on American action movies and fed up burgers and Coca-Cola, for the most part did not has no idea. About how the 12-thousandth expeditionary force of the USA with fire and sword “established freedom and democracy” on our land, these notes.

      "Could not sleep without killing someone"

      Archives and newspaper publications of that time still testify that the Yankees, having arrived at distant lands, ruled our land, leaving a bloody trace in the fate of Russian people and in the history of Primorye. So, for example, having captured the peasants I. Gonevchuk, S. Gorshkov, P. Oparin and Z. Murashko, the Americans buried them alive for communication with local partisans. And the partisan’s wife E. Boychuk was dealt with as follows: they pierced the body with bayonets and drowned in a garbage pit. The peasant Bochkarev was unrecognizably mutilated with bayonets and knives: "the nose, lips, ears were cut off, the jaw was broken, the face and eyes were punctured with bayonets, the whole body was cut up." At Art. Sviyagino was tortured in the same brutal way by partisan N. Myasnikov, who, according to an eyewitness, "first cut off his ears, then his nose, arms, legs, chopping him to pieces alive." Maybe after that, your attitude towards this General will change.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 31 January 2016 18: 09 New
      +2
      Sverdlov Yasha taxied in Moscow, his brother - on Wall Street, a banker in America, a lot of ends from there. For the USA, Russia was a very unpleasant competitor. He had to be dumped.
      1. avt
        avt 31 January 2016 18: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        Sverdlov Yasha taxied in Moscow, his brother - on Wall Street, a banker in America,

        Which brother is that? Was there a third? I only know the second one, who was adopted by the "proletarian writer" Peshkov, who signed his works M. Gorky (not to be confused with his son Maxim) and gave him his last name, again with the help of Nemirovich-Danchenko, who took him to Moscow to the theater (or both wassat ) jumped out of the "Pale of Settlement" and Nika No. 1, by personal decree, drove him back. Well, the same Zinovy, whom M. Gorky affectionately called Zinka in letters. Despite the loss almost in the first battle of the imperialist in the legion of etrange hands, remained in the active army and rose to the rank of general in the General Staff la Fgans, and when Yasha was playing tricks in the civilian, General Zinka was assigned to the headquarters of Kolchak as part of the French military mission under the command of General Joubert, it seems. with the adoptive father "BEFORE the imperialist, when he was traveling there on tour. Even Zinka got married and the folder" then complained from Capri to him in letters that he had become rude and inattentive to him .... well, not so feminine. ... fu-nasty wassatBy the way, his daughter was married to a major one, either military or the rank of GPU / OGPU .... Atets both ... wrote off.
  5. semirek
    semirek 31 January 2016 09: 31 New
    +2
    As the fifth column stirred, hearing only one word: the American general.
    The notorious memoirs of the American general suggest that what the Americans were doing in Siberia, did they not prepare the ground for digging out everything valuable from there, As soon as things went badly for Kolchak, the Americans changed their tone, they say, and the idea is bad to go against the Bolsheviks and the army is bad while Kolchak (America's protege) behaved quietly - everything is fine, as soon as he got out of control - he became bad and they began to refuse help, and the Czechs got out of obedience, and then it turns out with the Bolsheviks it is easier to agree, Trotsky (also "American" as it turned out later) promised in case of victory to Kamchatka amer, and the fuss began. The bottom line is that the Americans did not break off at all - the Jews cannot be trusted.
    But in essence: he would advise the author to read Vsevolod Ivanov (who wrote about the armored train), who lived in Siberia at that time, he really says that upon arrival in Siberia, the Bolsheviks raided everything from the peasants (it was necessary to eat the Moscow proletariat), and the huge -Siberian uprising of 21 years, the Bolsheviks transported the corpses of the killed insurgents to large cities to intimidate the population to markets for observation. An armored car came to intimidate the village of Lebyazhye, Omsk region, scorching machine guns in all directions, sparing no small old, and how many there were such villages in Siberia --- the American is silent - he is an honest servant. And to take Altai, for some reason the fighting continued after Kolchak left, the former anti-Kolchak partisan detachments fought a war against the Red Army, why is it asked, but because of the withdrawal everything was subject to everything from bread to horses, for refusing to be shot, my Altai grandmother said: sickle and hammer, death and hunger are what the Bolshevik hordes brought to Sib Ir. And the Americans saw their goal in one thing: to divide the Russian people, the metadome of the civil war, put the puppet regime at the head of Russia and pump up the national wealth, they still dream about it.
  6. igordok
    igordok 31 January 2016 09: 42 New
    0
    Thank you for the article. And as usual, the "workers" have already put one negative point.
    1. igordok
      igordok 31 January 2016 10: 44 New
      0
      And here is the second "worker" put a minus article and members of the forum.
    2. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 31 January 2016 21: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: igordok
      And as usual, the "workers" have already put one negative point.

      They get cookies for that ..
  7. Pissarro
    Pissarro 31 January 2016 09: 53 New
    +1
    It is not surprising that, as the song sings, partisan divisions occupied cities. What an idiot you need to be to arrange such a terror and so set up the entire population of Siberia against yourself.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 31 January 2016 18: 07 New
      -5
      The Reds behaved worse than the Nazis. Both those and others shot hostages if there was a partisan movement, the Reds still shot for refusing to betray. The Tukhachevsky-Trotsky made friendship with the Nazis, and for this he was then both in 1937 and 1945.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 31 January 2016 18: 13 New
      +2
      The partisans, however, were not red either.
      They wanted to live their independent community. But it didn’t work out.
      Partisan commanders soon died of their own accord. And that was it.
  8. Good cat
    Good cat 31 January 2016 11: 35 New
    +2
    There is such a fiction book, called "Kolchakovshchina", I do not remember who the author is, there the affairs of the "gentlemen" are brightly painted, I don't think that everything was invented out of the blue
  9. Pitot
    Pitot 31 January 2016 12: 15 New
    +2
    The White Guards of all spills (Kolchak, etc.) in different regions of Russia - already by their very appeals for help and receiving the same help from mortal enemies of Russia - are expelled, Americans, dzaps deserve a curse and, personally, all those beautiful conversations of modern liberals about noble lieutenants, etc. Burn them in hell fire along with Nikolashka. This dynasty began with blood - with blood and ended. Pah pah pah
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 31 January 2016 18: 14 New
      0
      Well, the enemy you understand who.
      Interesting Pitot, and who is your friend?
  10. iouris
    iouris 31 January 2016 14: 03 New
    +7
    Yeah. It is strange that the general also did not notice the detailed documented atrocities of the US Army in Russia at the same time. This army behaved with the Russians the same way as 40 years before that it behaved with the Indians. As we know, there are practically no indigenous people in the USA. Even the bison, which totaled 30-40 million heads in the USA, were left, because the bison were hunted by the Indians.
    As for a profound question someone asked: what was the terror at first - "white" or "red" (in other words, who is to blame?), I will answer: first, Russia was "igilized". In other words, after an unbridled propaganda campaign against the sovereign-emperor and his family, the "liberals-Westernizers" made a "democratic revolution" with the chant of the "Marseillaise" and began to trade in Russia and its wealth. Those who prevented them from doing this were killed. The expeditionary corps of the "allies" arrived not to support the white movement, but to export the necessary resources and values.
    By the way, during this period, a propaganda campaign was conducted in the USA in favor of the Bolsheviks, and this is not so much Lenin as Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Radek, Sverdlov ...
  11. Vadim42
    Vadim42 31 January 2016 14: 26 New
    +3
    There was neither white nor red terror, there was chaos of the civil war (a pitiful semblance now happening in Ukraine) in which more powerful states tried to bite off part of our country. No country was going to help Russia, but only to bite off a piece of territory under the guise of help. The American interventionist drank enough Russian Far Eastern blood, you need not be too lazy and go over the Internet.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 31 January 2016 18: 09 New
      0
      you can just google "red terror" and about what it was (there were more Russians killed than in the Second World War) and not write nonsense about it not being there.
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 31 January 2016 21: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Scraptor
        do not write nonsense about the fact that he was not

        Do you think there was no "white terror" at all ?? Honorable, in a civil war, both sides are right (or wrong).
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 31 January 2016 22: 24 New
          +1
          He did not go in any comparison with the Red Terror carried out by foreigners in relation to the Russians. One Yaroslavl "suppression of the uprising" is worth it ...
          1. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 1 February 2016 14: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Scraptor
            He did not go to any comparison with the red terror carried out by foreigners in relation to the Russians.

            In the morning on the stairs in the headquarters building I caught up with General Denikin and Wrangel. The Commander-in-Chief carried a coronet who burst into the infirmary and, despite the resistance of doctors and sisters, who cut 60 people of the Red Army there. Judging by the wooden expression on his face, I have no doubt that this is not his first or last feat of his kind ...

            This is from the memoirs of the White Guard General Belyaev "Notes of a Russian exile."
            I repeat, there are no right-wingers in the Civil War. Like the guilty.
  12. Balagan
    Balagan 31 January 2016 14: 33 New
    +1
    Oh, banderlogs can be established by the Order of Kalmykov - it’s a direct brother-in-law on ways to combat the population.
  13. AK64
    AK64 31 January 2016 14: 59 New
    +1
    The original text of the quotes, if you wish, you will find in my English-language blog; if you want to clarify or correct something - you are welcome. The full text of the Siberian memoirs of a respected general lies here.


    Where? No links! Put
  14. AK64
    AK64 31 January 2016 15: 10 New
    0
    About "hruts rolls" and so on, somehow off topic: neither Kalmykov nor Semyonov had the slightest relation to the "rolls". That is, in general.
    Semenov spec spoiled the Siberian government (KUMUCHU, in fact). Then he also spoiled Kolchak (swearing allegiance in words - but without sending a single soldier to Kolchak! This is a fact!). Semyonov crap all around, and he was just a gangster. To consider him, like Kalmykov, white is simply ridiculous.

    Yes, and Kolchak ... She's a bastard.
    Kolchak, the Siberian government invited, at the end of 1918, to the post of Minister of War. This apparently took into account his American connections and contacts. Having accepted the post, Kolchak literally in the very first month made a military coup, and ... first of all he shot those who invited him. And then he began, according to the marine habit, "tighten the nuts." Well, Siberia is around, and the result immediately followed: the whole of Siberia immediately revolted, and Kolchak came to an end.

    And crunching the rolls has nothing to do with it.
  15. Aleksander
    Aleksander 31 January 2016 15: 18 New
    +1
    Under an inter-union railway agreement, the Americans were assigned to guard sections of the Trans-Siberian Railway from Vladivostok to Ussuriysk and in the Verkhneudinsk region. In their area of ​​responsibility, the Americans did not oppose the red partisans, but they committed many crimes themselves. As a result under the protection of the Americans in Primorye soon formed a large red force reaching several thousand people. This led to a conflict between Graves and Ataman Semenov, Semenov accused Graves of supporting the Reds.
    When in the autumn of 1919, rifles purchased by the Kolchak government in the USA began to arrive in Vladivostok on American shipsGraves refused to send them further by rail. Such is the Amerobolshevichka, fellow Trotsky.

    FALSE Graves-long ago exposed and not by anyone, but by the US COURT. In the United States, the trial of Semenov took place on the events set forth in the book-all the accusations fell apart, being a fiction of amertrying to justify their crimes, the betrayal of the ally and the actual support of the Bolsheviks.

    PS. The atrocities, of course, were and were on both sides, but if on the part of Kolchak this was the result of Kolchak’s weak subordination of individual atamans and groups, which he complained about and condemned, then the actions of the Reds were a conscious policy of cruelty. Who heard about the brutality of the white armies after the civilian (and this is hundreds of thousands of soldiers) ?. But the policy of cruelty of the Reds is well-known and was continued without interruption and with the same atrocity, with the suppression of the Antonov uprising and other hundreds of rebellions against the Bolsheviks, in the same Siberia.
    1. avt
      avt 31 January 2016 17: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: Aleksander
      The FALSE of Graves has long been exposed and not by anyone, but by the US COURT. In the United States, a trial of Semenov took place on the events set forth in the book, all the accusations fell apart, turning out to be a fiction of an amer,

      “Long live our court! The most humane in the world! " fool laughing
      Quote: Aleksander
      PS. The atrocities, of course, were and were on both sides, but if on the part of Kolchak this was the result of Kolchak’s weak subordination of individual atamans and groups, which he complained about and condemned, then the actions of the Reds were a conscious policy of cruelty.

      laughingThis is a hike diagnosis! The most humane court in the USA has just decided
      Quote: Aleksander
      -all accusations fell apart, being a fiction of Amer,

      And then the postscript is written about .....
      Quote: Aleksander
      The atrocities of course were

      and not only that
      Quote: Aleksander
      and were on both sides

      It turns out on the part of these same chieftains, whose innocence was established by the USA court!
      Quote: Aleksander
      but if on the part of Kolchak this was the result of weak subordination to Kolchak of individual atamans and groups, which he complained about and condemned,

      Poor, poor Kolchak! So straight and imagine how he, sniffing cocaine in a staff car, sits and weeps over his own weakness in
      Quote: Aleksander
      m weak subordination to Kolchak of individual atamans and groups,

      and then he protrudes from the window of the smoked coupe and complains to everyone standing on the platform and condemns! wassat That's what cinema is doing! Lenin was truly right - "While the people are illiterate, the most important of the arts for us are cinema and the circus" laughing
      Quote: Aleksander
      When Semenov ended up in the ASP, neither Graves, nor his ilk, could prove a single charge in court
      the American accused the foreigner at home, and lost. then he lied in black (well, or in red).

      Well, well, just the same - "I am a shreh-standmaster in this circus, I announce the numbers" laughing
      1. Aleksander
        Aleksander 31 January 2016 21: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: avt
        I announce numbers


        You -cover , It's clear. yes And why are you so excited, you carpet ours, ALSO TWO comments on one post? belay Downright "sparkling" sarcasm fool", such fool same "irony" lol. And yet, so much buccaffe and not a temple -did not say... request, that is, NOTHING at all (even your opinion). Why is this for exercise? In what? What for?
        I gave evidence of the LIE of your Bronstein-Graves (us court), and also expressed my opinion. Your "sparkling" fool ernish (narcissism?) is the last thing that interests me. Good luck hi- on the carpet
        1. avt
          avt 31 January 2016 21: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: Aleksander
          And why are you so excited, you carpet ours, ALSO TWO comments on one post?

          What? It never happened when the sign jumped out - too long text!? Like they always wrote short - "the toast should be as short as a shot, otherwise there will be no time for rest."
          Quote: Aleksander
          And, nevertheless, so much bukaff-and no temple didn’t say ...

          And why write it yourself when you signed yourself, pay attention to OWN text in which
          Quote: Aleksander
          I gave evidence of the FALSE of your Graves arm brackets (us court), and also expressed my opinion.

          The evidence is, well, schizophrenic, where are we sinners with some kind of "narcissism" laughing You either, put on your panties, or take off the cross "And then you have, once again your quotes,
          Quote: Aleksander
          The FALSE of Graves has long been exposed and not by anyone, but by the US COURT. In the United States, a trial of Semenov took place on the events set forth in the book, all the accusations fell apart, turning out to be a fiction of an amer,

          BUT right there
          Quote: Aleksander
          PS. The atrocities of course were

          And the same, justified by the most humane and fair court in the USA
          Quote: Aleksander
          PS. The atrocities, of course, were and were on both sides, but if on the part of Kolchak this was the result of weak subordination to Kolchak of individual atamans and groups, which he complained about and condemned,

          Quote: Aleksander
          ... Your "sparkling" mockery (narcissism?) Is the last thing that interests me.

          laughing,, Oh, you're lying! You're lying to the Tsar! "Wouldn't be interested, then they would quietly put a minus, and not in a terrible excitement with an upset stomach" would sprinkle the answer with buttons! laughing
    2. avt
      avt 31 January 2016 17: 08 New
      +3
      Next after
      Quote: Aleksander
      In their area of ​​responsibility, the Americans did not oppose the red partisans, but they committed many crimes themselves. As a result, under the protection of the Americans in Primorye, large red forces were soon formed, reaching several thousand people.

      You will prove that in the concentration camp on the Russky Island the Americans drove the White Guards “warriors of light” under the crunch of a French roll, only Semenov and Kalmykov managed to escape.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. baudolino
    baudolino 31 January 2016 16: 52 New
    +6
    Although we all come from the USSR, history itself decided who was right in the dispute between the Reds and the Whites. The kingdom of workers and peasants lasted 70 years. The empire has somehow survived, but we are now raking the wise legacy of Bolshevism in the Donbass.
    And memoirs bearing the burden of a white person are a specific product.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 31 January 2016 18: 13 New
      +2
      History resolved this in 1937-38 when this red Nerus received from two Orthodox Georgians a pool in our Lubyanka then ...
    2. IS-80
      IS-80 31 January 2016 23: 04 New
      0
      Quote: baudolino
      Although we all come from the USSR, history itself decided who was right in the dispute between the Reds and the Whites. The kingdom of workers and peasants lasted 70 years.

      Another Fukuyama on our head.
      Quote: baudolino
      The empire has somehow survived, but we are now raking the wise legacy of Bolshevism in the Donbass.

      Wow, the Russian Federation is an empire. And then who is Putin? The emperor? You tell him about it, otherwise you know, he still thinks that he is the president. And where did you divide the legacy of tsarism? Or has he already been raked?
      Quote: baudolino
      And memoirs bearing the burden of a white person are a specific product.

      It is understandable all the damned Americans lied to the Saxos. Slander the military of the light. Everything was completely wrong and in general they were distributing French rolls to everyone. And the Bolsheviks took these rolls and shot them all.
  18. terehvlad
    terehvlad 31 January 2016 17: 01 New
    +8
    To commit atrocities and hang it on the Russians is a classic of propaganda. I bet that in 20 years Ashton Carter’s book will be released on how the Russians created al-Qaeda and bombed weddings in Yemen and a hospital in Afghanistan.
    The US Army Colonel Morrow, no less frank in his memoirs, lamenting that his poor soldiers ... "could not fall asleep without killing anyone that day (...) When our soldiers captured Russians, they drove away they were brought to the Andriyanovka station, where the wagons were unloaded, the prisoners were brought to the huge pits, where they were shot from machine guns. ” “The most memorable” for Colonel Morrow was the day “when 1600 people were delivered in 53 wagons”.
    from here https://yadi.sk/i/ObAaY_Nfo4AgJ there is a photo of Graves with Semyonov, next to it <- looking for "Meeting of Ataman Georgy Semyonov and Major General William Graves in September 1918"
    - please your idol burns in hell
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 31 January 2016 18: 22 New
      -1
      In America there was no general military service, which means that the SC was mainly scumbag and maniacs who liked to kill overseas. And where else, did the Indian war end like their civil war? They tried to collect for this in the American for (marine) infantry. And now the same thing is just not so categorical as other types of aircraft are also deployed overseas.
      As they stabbed with bayonets in Siberia and the Arctic, so later in Vietnam they shot them with Cobras or in Iraq with Apaches ...
      1. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 31 January 2016 19: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: Scraptor
        There was no general conscription in America

        Is it? It was finally canceled only in 1973, it was partially canceled in 1920-1940, then it was also "partially" returned until 1973, and they still have military registration.
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 31 January 2016 21: 46 New
          +2
          It was introduced for a short time only during the Vietnam War, which basically caused protests ... Then it was canceled. Never again in the USA was there a universal military duty. Neither in the WWII nor in the WWII that were started by the Rockefellers in order for the Europeans, Asians and Russians to be mutually destroyed, it was all the more so in the USA. Standard Oil began to supply the Natsiks with oil even before the Wehrmacht got stuck in Russia before reaching the fields of the Caucasus
          If we see that Germany is winning, then we should help Russia, and if Russia is winning, then we should help Germany, and thus let them kill as much as possible ... Harry Truman (New York Times, 24.06.1941)

          Well, something like this...
          1. Mr. Pip
            Mr. Pip 31 January 2016 23: 04 New
            0
            Quote: Scraptor
            It was introduced for a short time only during the Vietnam War.

            AND! That is, in World War 2, she fought solely on the enthusiasm of her own citizens?
            Quote: Scraptor
            Neither in WWII nor in WWII that were started by the Rockefellers in order for the Europeans, Asians and Russians to mutually destroy

            Well, that is, neither the Europeans nor the Asians had their own interests in them, are there to overcome the colony or what ?!
            Quote: Scraptor
            If we see that Germany wins, then we should help Russia, and if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and so let them kill as much as possible ... Harry Truman

            And if "something similar" were said, for example, by Stalin or Alexander III - how would you react to their words? request
        2. Scraptor
          Scraptor 31 January 2016 21: 48 New
          -1
          You can still ...
  19. Mr. Pip
    Mr. Pip 31 January 2016 17: 57 New
    +1
    Well, comments, as always, nothing new, as always the same "who killed whom more, and who committed more atrocities."
    People, are you out of your mind?
    Maybe in the Great Patriotic War, we will assess the "legality" of the parties by the number of those killed?
    Or maybe we will think that "in the long term" the motives of the parties and our interest are more important than the "operational methods of the opponents" ?!
    PS Now I am not defending any "Semyonovs", but first of all common sense - the "atrocities" of the parties are not directly dependent on their original motives - if you want to write down someone in "fluffy" and someone in "horned", then for God's sake - but based on their political goals and plans in a historical perspective, at least request
  20. Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 31 January 2016 21: 01 New
    +1
    An interesting look at things. thanks to the author for the excerpts. And, after reading the speeches of previous speakers, I note that it is not the strong who wins, but the one behind whom the truth is. At that time, the truth was with the Bolsheviks, which is why they won.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 31 January 2016 21: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      At that time, the truth was with the Bolsheviks, which is why they won.


      Yeah, "good always triumphs over evil." Whoever won is GOOD.
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 1 February 2016 14: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Aleksander
        Yeah, "good always triumphs over evil." Whoever won is GOOD.

        The one who is supported by the population wins.
        1. 2news
          2news 1 February 2016 15: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Pomoryanin
          The one who is supported by the population wins.

          What did you mean? About the people of Spain who defeated Franco? Or the people of Chile who defeated Pinochet? You can give other examples with the wagon.
          1. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 1 February 2016 15: 27 New
            +1
            Quote: 2news
            About the people of Spain who defeated Franco?

            You give not very good examples. Not only German-Italian troops but various Moroccans fought for Franco, but half of the country. The population of Chile Allende government tired of the worse than the bitter radish. So you are wrong.
            1. 2news
              2news 1 February 2016 16: 30 New
              0
              Quote: Pomoryanin
              Not only German-Italian troops but various Moroccans fought for Franco, but half of the country.

              These are unfounded allegations. The majority voted for the Republicans. Means, supported.
              Quote: Pomoryanin
              The population of Chile Allende government tired of the worse than the bitter radish.

              When did you manage? And the war was not there. Pinochet just came and said that now he is the boss. And those who objected were punished in every way.
              By the way, Chileans with Pnochet were very lucky. Today it is a Latin American (i.e., excluding the United States and Canada) country with the richest population of both Americas. They are even richer than the Mexicans, who take full advantage of the neighborhood with the United States. Chileans in terms of welfare today, these are roughly Czechs (i.e. a little richer than Estonians, but a little poorer than the Greeks), if you look in Europe.
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 1 February 2016 16: 43 New
                +1
                Quote: 2news
                Chileans in terms of welfare today, these are roughly Czechs when viewed in Europe.

                Actually, I was in Punta Arenas 10 years ago, so I know about Chile and Pinochet from Chileans. There was a terrible mess under Allende, the people did not need it.
                Quote: 2news
                These are unfounded allegations. The majority voted for the Republicans. Means, supported.

                Do not dissemble. A large half of the population fought for Franco, for example the peasantry, whom the republican government threw with land reform. And the monarchical sentiments in the village were strong.
                1. 2news
                  2news 1 February 2016 17: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  There was a terrible mess under Allende, the people did not need it.

                  But you are not confused by the fact that he was the legitimate president of Chile. And then he clung to some clown in uniform and declared himself the boss. Chileans, unlike you, it was apparently embarrassing. Otherwise, whom did the Pinochet people keep at the stadiums? And in general, speaking between us, the putsch, this is not good. In any decent person, any coup should cause rejection at a basic level.
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  A larger half of the population fought for Franco, for example the peasantry

                  Apparently you were counting? Here I want to remind you of what I wrote about Chile in the paragraph above.
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  And the monarchical sentiments in the village were strong.

                  And what did Franco have to do with the monarchy?
                  1. Pomeranian
                    Pomeranian 1 February 2016 21: 07 New
                    +1
                    Most gracious! Well, you at least read something on the topic.
                    Quote: 2news
                    And what did Franco have to do with the monarchy?

                    Porlit enlightenment. In Spain, two parties were strong: the Republicans and the monarchists. When the Republicans won the election, King Alfonso (number forgot) in order to avoid civil war and unrest, abdicated, allowing the left Republicans to take power. Out of the supporters of the monarchist party, a nationalist movement emerged, led by Franco, who ultimately transferred power to the rightful ruler - is it enough for the king?
                    2.
                    Quote: 2news
                    And in general, speaking between us, the putsch, this is not good. In any decent person, any coup should cause rejection at a basic level.

                    Not going to sport. Under Allende, over the year 500 of his opponents disappeared without a trace, and not ordinary citizens. There was a mess in the economy; they did not like him, to put it mildly. And the stubborn leftists were driven to the stadiums. What to do, war.
                    Chileans in Chile told me about this.
                    3.
                    Quote: 2news
                    Apparently you were counting? Here I want to remind you of what I wrote about Chile in the paragraph above.

                    A map of the areas of the Franco rebellion look. And finish here. I have the honor.
                    1. 2news
                      2news 1 February 2016 21: 47 New
                      0
                      Quote: Pomoryanin
                      Out of the supporters of the monarchist party, a nationalist movement emerged, led by Franco, who ultimately transferred power to the rightful ruler - is it enough for the king?

                      But you do not mind that he somehow passed it on for a long time. No, I did. But for some reason he transmitted 36 years. And he finally handed it over only at the time of his death, although the last 2 years the country was led by his proteges, and not by him personally. Such a strange process of transferring power.
                      Most gracious. If you distort, then somehow do it more cunningly.
                      Quote: Pomoryanin
                      There was a mess in the economy; they did not like him, to put it mildly.

                      I also do not like the neighbor's dog. Recommend me to shoot her?
                      Quote: Pomoryanin
                      Map of the Franco Uprising areas

                      A Europe atlas is not necessary to see? Well, just in case.
                      Your logic is strange. I do not like the legal head of state, shoot him. And supporters to shoot. Are you an anarchist bomber?
                      1. Pomeranian
                        Pomeranian 1 February 2016 21: 53 New
                        +1
                        Well, okay. There are no arguments, there is no knowledge, it remains only to stupidly cast doubt on everything. Who cares how many years Franco transferred power to the king? Do not like the dog - be patient if you can not do anything else. A discussion with you is pointless. All the best.
                      2. 2news
                        2news 1 February 2016 22: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: Pomoryanin
                        Who cares how many years Franco transferred power to the king?

                        In fact, this protracted "transfer of power", which ended only with the death of Franco, is somehow very reminiscent of the classical military junta. Don’t you?
                      3. 2news
                        2news 1 February 2016 22: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: Pomoryanin
                        Who cares how many years Franco transferred power to the king?

                        In fact, this protracted "transfer of power", which ended only with the death of Franco, is somehow very reminiscent of the classical military junta. Don’t you?
  • iouris
    iouris 31 January 2016 21: 10 New
    +2
    And in 1991, "truth" was on Chubais's side? Someone very correctly remarked that only with the Russians "it is possible and so it is possible."
    Let's think in objective categories: history develops according to objective laws. People have three options: 1) to hide their heads in the sand (concrete floor), 2) to oppose the historical process, 3) to promote progress (despite the fact that engaging in politics is often a very dirty business).
    If you can answer the question: who was a revolutionary and who was a reactionary in 1917 and 1991, then you answered the question "what is the truth, brother?"
    The United States unleashed and profited very well from two world wars and revolutions. A constant principle of the attitude of the United States to what is happening in the rest of the world: to help those who lose in the war so that they kill each other as long as possible.
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 1 February 2016 14: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: iouris
      And in 1991, "truth" was on Chubais's side?

      If you were an adult in those days, you must remember that almost the whole country yearned for change. So we got a change. If there had been rejection, Yeltsin’s camarilla would have failed.
  • nivander
    nivander 1 February 2016 10: 04 New
    +2
    read Turkul's book "Drozdovites on Fire" (available on the Internet), the following pearls easily slip through there. "During a fierce battle, 300 Chinese were captured. I immediately ordered to shoot these stinking Asian rats." Or "Moscow cadets taken prisoner with pride and contempt they refused to join our ranks. At the execution they sang the Internationale together - the end of the first verse coincided with a volley of the firing squad. "
  • Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 1 February 2016 12: 39 New
    +1
    Thanks a lot for the translation! And then the film "Admiral" will soon start showing in schools! Yes, it’s ruin in our heads! A person opposing the USSR is automatically a Russophobe, which, in principle, is confirmed by the discussion on the thread! Notice how corrupt the White Guards were! If it were not for the intervention and active assistance of the Entente, which defended its interests, then there would be no Civil War! This means that the person defending the white movement is a supporter of the peace and domination of the "Great country of proud elves", and, accordingly, is a Russophobe!
    1. 2news
      2news 1 February 2016 16: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: JääKorppi
      A person opposing the USSR is automatically Russophobe

      What nonsense. Everything is exactly the opposite. And do not need the way of Russian and Soviet, these are two different things.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 1 February 2016 20: 42 New
    0
    Oh yeah! The author pulled the mummy of another overseas benefactor out of oblivion! Truth-loving interventionist! New forgotten prophet and guardian of the Russian State! Everything is much simpler and more prosaic, - the commander of the expeditionary forces of the interventionists, equipped from the same money bag as the "goose gustskaya". Why was everyone so alarmed? Well, a certain Vladimir Vladimirovich Samarin quoted in his blog quotes from an American "democratizer" general, so what? Nothing new: Russians are all cattle and pigs, red ones are bad, whites are even worse. Does something surprise you? I personally do not. Again there was a smell of "posnerism" of the 1990 sample. Rubbish was collected in the hut in order to throw it in the owner's face. The reception is old, we know, passed already. And half of the "fasting" drinks to the bottom, this cup, dances on a rake. First, these figures send the ships of the revolutionaries to Russia, then they send expeditionary corps. And, further, the logic is twisted: White is to blame! Yes, the Whites are also to blame, no more than those who shed blood for "steam heating" like Yashka from "Bumbarash". The Civil War is a terrible wound on the torn body of the Russian people. The civil war is a consequence of an attempt by external forces to destroy the ruling elite of the Russian state, to deprive the people of their "heads" and "shoulders", to turn the "white blacks" into a stupidly mooing mass, to give "tyranny not from the right, but from the left," according to the same comrade of the People's Commissariat for Military Affairs ... Until the February and October coups are assessed as an anti-Russian project. the project of the genocide of the Russian people, and we will step on the rake, listening to the Novodvorskys. then the Samarins. In the center of Russia, there should finally be a large memorial, both red and white, drowned in barges on the Volga and shot in the Crimea and Novrossiysk, who fled to a foreign land, and who experienced all the delights of surplus appropriation in the 20s. This should be a lesson for a hundred generations ahead: Do not let foreigners into your garden, under any pretext, no matter how "progressive" it may seem.