Etruscans against ... Russian! (part of 1)

In the first article about stories The military affairs of the peoples of the Apennine Peninsula dealt with the Samnites, since the author thought that their influence on the military affairs of Rome was more significant. It is clear that I had to touch upon the Etruscans, about whose military organization in the same Wikipedia only two proposals were given. But ... everything happened as it should have happened: there were immediately “experts” who absolutely knew that the Etruscans were the ancestors of the Russians (Slavs), and so it went. And although there are few such people on this site, fortunately, they are. And this is already on the ship: if there is a small “hole” in the casing, then wait for a big leak. It is necessary to patch, until it began. Therefore, apparently, it makes sense to return to the subject of the Etruscans and see who they are, from where, and further study their military history, weapon and armor.

Warrior and Amazons - wall paintings from Targinia, 370 - 360 BC. Archaeological Museum of Florence.

Herodot wrote about where they came to the Apennine peninsula, who wrote that the Etruscans were from Lydia, territories in Asia Minor, and that their name was Tyrrhenes or Tyrsens, and the Romans called them tusks (hence Tuscany). For a long time, it was believed that the Villanova culture is their culture, but now it is more associated with other local people, the Italians. However, after deciphering the Lydian inscriptions, this point of view was criticized, as it turned out that their language has nothing to do with Etruscan. The modern point of view is this: the Etruscans are not Lydians as such, but even more ancient, pre-Indo-European people of the western part of Asia Minor, belonging to the "peoples of the sea". And it is very possible that the ancient Roman myth about Aeneas, the leader of the beaten Trojans, who moved to Italy after the fall of Troy, was connected with them. For some reason, the data of archeology today is not convincingly enough of a large number of people: “they are all fakes buried in the ground” - they argue, although it is completely incomprehensible what these “digging” can have (or had) a goal. In general, it turns out that the goal is the same: “offend Russia”. However, the purpose of this “event” is again incomprehensible. Before the 1917 revolution, Russia was an empire whose rulers were very closely related to the ruling houses of Europe. That is, there was no point in this. After the revolution, at first no one took it seriously, that is, why offend and so offended and bury money in the ground? But when we really started to imagine something, then it was already too late to bury something - the achievements of science allow us to recognize any fake.

And it was precisely this science that gave us the most important proof that Herodotus and the archaeologists were right. It can be considered proven that the ancient Etruscans moved to Italy from Asia Minor, where they lived on the territory of modern Turkey. Comparing the genetic data of the inhabitants of the Tuscan region (ancient Etruria) with the data of citizens from Turkey, scientists of the University of Turin concluded that they are obvious similarities. That is, on the Asia Minor origin of the ancient inhabitants of the Apennine Peninsula, which Herodot reported, it is true! The DNA of the inhabitants of the Tuscan Valley of Casentino and the cities of Volterra and Murlo were studied. Donors of genetic material were men from families who lived in the area for at least three generations and whose names are unique for this region. Game chromosomes (which are transmitted from father to son) were compared with several chromosomes of people from other parts of Italy, from the Balkans, Turkey and also the island of Lemnos in the Aegean Sea. Matches with genetic patterns from the East turned out to be more than from Italy. Well, the residents of Murlo was discovered a genetic variant, which is found only in general among residents of Turkey. Here, as they say - everything, nothing more to argue about.

Etruscan pendant with a swastika, 700 - 600 BC. Bolzen, Italy. Louvre Museum.

True, there is still linguistics, but it cannot yet give an exhaustive answer to the question of the origin of the Etruscan language. Although more than 7000 Etruscan inscriptions are known, his relationship with any family of languages ​​has not been established. Well, that's not installed and that's it! And even by researchers from the USSR. But if the Etruscans came from Asia Minor and are the ancestors of the Lydians, then their language should belong to the extinct Hetto-Luvian (Anatolian) group of Indo-European languages. Although the data on its Indo-European origin is not convincing enough.

Etruscan warriors carry a fallen comrade. National Museum of Villa Julia, Rome.

And here the final answer to these disputes was given ... cows! A study of the mitochondrial DNA of cows from Tuscany, conducted by a group of geneticists led by Marco Pellecchia from the Catholic University of Sacred Heart in Piacenza, showed that their distant ancestors have cows from Asia Minor as their direct relatives! At the same time, animals from all regions of Italy were studied. And it turned out that about 60% of the mitochondrial DNA of cows from Tuscany are identical to the mitochondrial DNA of cows from the Middle East and Asia Minor, that is, in the homeland of the legendary Etruscans. At the same time, this study did not establish a relationship between Tuscan cows and cattle from the north and south of Italy. Well, since cows are domestic animals, because they do not fly, swim or migrate in herds, it becomes clear that they could only go from one part of the Mediterranean to the other by sea on ships. And who at that time could have sailed around the Mediterranean on ships and "inherited" in this way with his and "bestial" genes? Only the "peoples of the sea", first settled in Sardinia, and then on the mainland. By the way, the ancient tribal name of the Etruscans "Tursh" or "Turush" is also known from the Egyptian monuments of the era of Ramses II - that is, the time when he was at war with the "peoples of the sea".

Well, then they just assimilated. They did not leave Italy, according to some Slavophiles, in order to become the ancestors of the Slavs, namely, they assimilated. Otherwise ... we would not have found their genes on its territory today. For this, it takes a very long time ... to copulate in order to "inherit" so well. Yes, and they would also have stolen cattle, because at that time it was a great value. But no: both people and cattle - all that remained in Italy. This means that no Etruscans are not Russians, and our ancestors have never been!

Chimera from Arezzo. Bronze statue of the 5th century BC er Archaeological Museum, Florence.

Now culture. Its characteristic features, be it spiritual culture or material, never completely disappear when they are relocated. This is especially true of religion. It is known that the Etruscans believed in the afterlife of the deceased and, like the Egyptians, tried to provide him “in the next world” with all necessary. As a result, the Etruscans built tombs for them so that they resemble the deceased of his native home and fill them with utensils and furniture. The dead were cremated, and the ashes were placed in a special urn. Famous and beautiful sculptural sarcophagi.

Etruscan sarcophagus of spouses from the necropolis Banditachcha. Polychrome terracotta, VI century BC. er National Museum of Villa Julia, Rome.

Personal belongings and jewelry, clothing, weapons and various household items were subject to burial along with an urn, that is, there was persistent faith in the soul of a person with a body that was not related! On the walls of the tombs painted such pleasant scenes in all respects as peers, sports games and dances. Memorial games, battles of gladiators, sacrifices to the dead - all this was supposed to ease their fate in the "other world". In this, the Etruscan religion was very different from the ideas of the Greeks, for whom the tomb was just a tomb, a place for a dead body, but nothing more!

The main Etruscan deities were Turan, the goddess of love, Tumus, an analogue of the Greek god Hermes, Seflans, the god of fire, Fufluns, the god of wine, Laran, the god of war, Fean, the goddess of dawn, Voltumna, Nortia, Lara, and the gods of death, Kalu, Kulsu, Leion and etc. The Etruscans wrote down their religious views in sacred books, and the Romans later translated them and learned a lot of interesting things, in particular, about fortune telling about the insides of animals, celestial signs and various rituals with which to "act" on the gods.

Etruscan black-vase waza depicting battling hoplites, eye of 550 BC Metropolitan Museum, New York

Like many ancient societies, the Etruscans conducted military campaigns during the summer months; they raided the neighboring districts, attempted to seize land, valuable goods and slaves. The latter could be sacrificed on the graves of the departed to honor their memory, in the same way as Achilles tried to honor the memory of the murdered Patroclus.

Etruscan helmet of Corinthian type, VI - V centuries. BC. Dalla Museum of Art, Texas.

The written monuments of the Etruscan period are fragmented, but they also give reason to believe that the Etruscans competed with the early Romans for supremacy in central Italy for almost two centuries (c.700 BC - 500 BC), but the first of the neighboring cultures of Rome began to succumb to Roman expansion.

Etruscan helmet from the British Museum.

Comments

[Glot]

Vyacheslav, thanks for the article.
It turns out that the Etruscans are more likely the descendants of those who sailed with Aeneas? I did not know about this, I thought that they were aborigines on the Apennines. But the version about the descendants of the Trojans is quite viable and logical.

PS Get ready, now the local "Etruscologists" will wake up and a little war will begin.

[Red_Hamer]

Much has been written about this in the USSR, nothing new. Whole books are available.)) "Etruscans, who are they?" I read as a child in the 70s)). There is about Troy and about many other things.

[kalibr]

You do not write it to me ... I just read all this as a student. I don’t know where it was ... other! Seen from envy of the great ukram.

[Nikolay K]

Nevertheless, just the origin of the Etruscans from the Trojan culture can testify to their cultural proximity with the Russians. First, we know that the Cimmerians who lived in the Crimea and the southern Black Sea coast were allies of Troy. They had fairly close cultural ties, even many deities are the same. Scythians came to replace the Cimmerians, and behind them the Slavs-Rus. Secondly, it cannot be argued that the Etruscans were the only fragment of the Trojan culture. From the point of view of geography and history, I fully admit that a significant part of the defeated Trojans settled in the same Crimea and the Black Sea region. Let us recall at least the legend of the Amazons and the powerful Bosporus kingdom. At that time, Troy was unequivocally the most culturally developed civilization, in comparison with which the Greeks were barbarians. Naturally, many peoples, where the fragments of developed culture fell, adopted important achievements from them, including writing. I would also like to say about the association of Trojans as a people of the sea. In fact, Slavic tribes were not considered good sailors. Just the exception was the Russians, who carried out expansion mainly along the river routes. About the famous Russian rooks, and regular raids on Constantinople all heard. Thus, the idea comes that the navigation skills were borrowed by Russians from outside. And I fully admit that our teachers were descendants of ancient Trojans and the cultures they founded. And here comes to mind the theory of the origin of the name Russian from the Russian Haganate, located in the northeast of the Black Sea and in the Azov region, famous for its trade relations. By the way, the Sarmatians, the descendants of the Union of Scythians and Amazons, lived here earlier. Later, the principality of Tmutarakan was located here, which, as we recall, was usually left in the possession of the youngest son. In our tradition it was that the youngest son remained to inspect his parents in his father's house. So Russians and Etruscans can really connect a lot, and not just a consonant name.

[Slobber]

Nevertheless, just the origin of the Etruscans from the Trojan culture can testify to their cultural proximity with the Russians.

Well, yes, and also from the Russians came the pithecanthropus, from which the proto-hides evolved, yes.

Sarmatians - descendants of the Union of Scythians and Amazons

Just don’t need to turn myths and conjectures into reality

[Glot]

Just don’t need to turn myths and conjectures into reality

And so it is more interesting, simpler and more understandable for "Buratin".

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

In Rostov, in the Nakhichevan market, a whole series of us sells Korean salads. The Armenians in Nakhichevan-on-Don came from the Crimea. Cimmerians lived in Crimea, culturally associated with the Trojans and peoples of the sea. I dare to suggest that the peoples of the sea in ancient times could travel to the Far East and adopt the food traditions of local residents there. This tradition was gradually inculcated in the descendants of the Don Cossacks, partially related by origin to the Principality of Tmutarakansky. I didn’t forget to mention anyone.

[Chiropractor]

Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin

. I dare to suggest that the peoples of the sea in ancient times could travel to the Far East and adopt the food traditions of local residents there. This tradition was gradually inculcated in the descendants of the Don Cossacks, partially related by origin to the Principality of Tmutarakansky.

Well then, drag cows there too - in the Vladimir region there are farms with a breed of New Jersey, so Vladimir males are descendants of the American Indians who recaptured these cows from the Anglo-Saxons when they sailed from Jersey to conquer America ..

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Kostoprav

in the Vladimir region there are farms with a breed of New Jersey, which means Vladimir men are descendants of the American Indians

Means investigated "aboriginal breeds" pancake!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D
0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

No. the opposite was true: Vladimir men in the 9th century sailed to Jersey with their cows, in order to improve the local culture, the level of agricultural technology, and local girls "fry". But judging because the Vladimir region, although not very densely, is still populated, not everyone liked the girls. Further it is clear: for a while they became the elite of the British aborigines, but could not withstand the invasion of the Normans. Their descendants were assimilated, but the cows continued their difficult mission, incl. and overseas.

[97110]

Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin

I didn’t forget to mention anyone

The Koreans have been forgotten. Which onions are grown. On Levberdon. If Korean pickles-peppercorns had come to the Don before the RH, they would have been given names by the Don. If with the Armenians from the Crimea - the Armenian. And they just gave it - "Korean". Even from the Korean language no "chiv-chiv" was borrowed. This means that the name came from the papers of the Administration of the Proletarsky District of Rostov-on-Don (where the Nakhichevan bazaar, or the proletarian market in the Soviet way), so that any accounting chamber would read it and ask no questions.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Thank you so much! You have extraordinarily helped me in the matter of knowing the history and culture of the Don Region by opening the curtain of secrecy over the white spots of uncharted pages of our history.

[Black Colonel]

Koreans have been forgotten. Which onions are grown.
About Koreans directly removed from the language.

[Nikolay K]

About the Armenian Koreans, the comparison is not appropriate, but ridiculous. We now have the whole world walking in Chinese consumer goods, but the Chinese did not seem to become. The incorrectness of the comparison is that now we can immediately get cows from Australia, clothes and China, and dishes from Ikea (just kidding). In those days, interregional relations were orders of magnitude more difficult and, as a rule, peoples boiled in their own boiler. Therefore, any connection between cultures caused by contacts of one kind or another can be clearly traced.

[97110]

Quote: Nikolai K

About the Armenian Koreans comparison is not appropriate

Nikolay, during the onion harvesting season, take the a / d to Bagaevka. Look at the piles of sacks of onions on the side of the road and the "Armenians" next to them. I wrote about Koreans without any jokes. Have Armenians replaced them now? I left Rostov in 2002, now I don't go past Podpolny.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Our Don society is traditional and patriarchal. Armenians separately, Koreans separately. Locally made salads, not imported. The Cimmerians really don’t remember the old people specifically.

[KakoVedi]

Poorly! But they tried so hard ... They rushed about on horseback with a hoot. Well, at least the cows stayed! At present, and this is a lot ...

[Conductor]

The article came out very on time
I propose to listen (I quote one character with whom I argued a couple of months ago on this site):

Quote: venaya
Let's start with the concept of "west" - the direction of the part of the world where the sun sinks below the horizon. "East" is also the direction where the sun rises from the horizon. Please, start small, with the restoration of the methods of our own logical thinking (teaching the subject "logic" was canceled at school in 1956, hence many problems), and I think the path to this will be difficult. And you don't need to use authority or anti-authority here, I beg you, calm down, try to think for yourself, on your own, this can solve many other problems.Etruscans are the ancestors of Russians, because "Etrusc" literally translates "this is Russian"

mmm, the logic smelled ...
It even seems to me that this is already too much ...

[venaya]

I remind you your comment of October 23, 2015:

Quote: Explorer

The whole world was Russian, which is so modest ...
Of course, it was the Russian language and the forms of its writing that were autochthonous (that is, indigenous) both the language and the writing throughout the whole of Europe today, which is confirmed by numerous archaeological research
Do not bother to present evidence? Or at least express it more specifically, otherwise I, to be honest on your
numerous archaeological studies do not give a damn)
Want a hint?
Vata of the brain - this is your diagnosis)

You don't give a damn about archeology, I understand you. I also understand your expression about cotton wool, here everything is clear where the breeze comes from. As for proof - so you don't give a damn, except for "Murzilka" and the enemy "Wikipelia" you don't want to read anything, stagnant effects, so to speak, but whoever wants to find evidence, if it's difficult on their own, then I'll help them. And about you, I strongly doubt that you are capable of anything in relation to the process of cognition, some kind of "cotton wool" is interfering with you.

[Glot]

I propose to listen (I quote one character with whom I argued a couple of months ago on this site):

Yes, this "venyaua" is already known here for his stupidity.
I remember how he turned the word ROME, reading it backwards and received MIR and drawing the conclusion that the city was fundamentally "people of the WORLD, that is, Russians", and assuring that earlier, in antiquity, it was all the same how to read, from right to left or from left to right, whoever wanted to read it. And he didn’t even care that ROME was ROMA.
So, the character is already famous.

[venaya]

Roma - as a spelling in Latin, which appeared only after 400 BC, however, like the Latin language itself, before that the Etruscans used the same script as the representatives of the "Trypillian culture", in which the word Rome is spelled with ours modern writing. So, I take the original name of the city based on the spelling of the Etruscans more ancient than the Latins. What is incomprehensible here?

[Glot]

What is incomprehensible here?

No, I’ve understood everything for a long time.

[Glot]

Roma - as a spelling in Latin, which appeared only after 400 BC, however, like the Latin language itself, before that the Etruscans used the same script as the representatives of the "Trypillian culture", in which the word Rome is spelled with ours modern writing. So, I take the original name of the city based on the spelling of the Etruscans more ancient than the Latins.

Well, then I want to see a certain artifact of Etruscan culture, on which it will be written - ROME.
You are our copyright holder.
Sam crap invents some kind of descent, and sculpts here the hell with that.

[andj61]

Quote: Glot

Well, then I want to see a certain artifact of Etruscan culture, on which it will be written - ROME.

Considering that the Romans themselves conquered and assimilated the Etruscans - and in a very short time ... But the Etruscans did not call themselves Etruscans, that is how the Romans called them ... And if the Romans said - "these are Russians" - then the Romans were Slavs!
Similarly, the name of the last royal dynasty can be derived from Rome: New Rome - Roma nova - Romanov.

[Nikolay K]

"Sarmatians are descendants of the union of Scythians and Amazons"
Just don't turn myths and speculations into reality "
First, the legend of the Amazons came down to us from the same Herodotus. I will not tell you about many facts that support this legend. You can just pay attention to the origin of the word Sarmata. Sar is a commonly used root and is the origin of the "king". "Mats" is probably "mother" (compare with the Ukrainian pronunciation of the word mother). It turns out the Sarmatians are royal mothers (women). Many historians considered them to be the main ones among the Scythian tribes.

[kalibr]

Did they call themselves that? So proudly: we are Sarmatians!

[Nikolay K]

You ask them yourself what they called themselves. As a historian, you are well aware that the self-name of peoples does not always coincide with what their neighbors called them. We call Germans Germans. But this does not prevent science from using commonly used names and analyzing their origin.

[kalibr]

So, deduce their name from the self-designation and do not invent about the "royal mothers" - leave a piece of bread to Zadornov!

[a housewife]

Actually, KING, CAESAR, KAISER - these are all different pronunciations of the name CAESAR, which has become a household word in the meaning of the GOVERNOR. And what, only women were called Sarmatians? Where, then, are the SAROTS?

[Nikolay K]

There is a version that the generic name "Caesar" comes from the name of the ancient city-state of the Etruscans - Ceres. In modern times it is the Italian city of Cerveteri
Caesar in this case is the king (ruler) of the state of Tse. By the way, in Hebrew "sar" is also a king. Believe me, the language is much older than Gaius Julius Caesar.

[AK64]

There is also a better version. Keyser is Caesar, OK. But the king is a sar - an Asian (Persian?) Term. But by no means Jewish. And no matter how the first king-sar was ... Batu - in his case, the term is accurate.

By the way, about the king-Jewish term ... well, well

[Reptiloid]

I’m embarrassed to ask: Are you not talking about the book of Sergey Lesnoy? He has several books.

[El-bog]

But such a map from the Vatican, the same myth?

[Glot]

Nevertheless, just the origin of the Etruscans from the Trojan culture can testify to their cultural proximity with the Russians.

Do you see the artifacts shown in the photo? Find there, among them, culturally close to Russia? Or did we have similar metal plastic, ceramics, household items and weapons?

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Glot

Or did we have similar metal plastic, ceramics, household items and weapons?

Yes, we had whole pyramids in Egypt, what ceramics ?!
This disposable tableware was for such a great civilization - almost all the samples were broken after dinner so as not to wash

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

In metal plastic we are, of course, culturally closer to the Germans.

[Nikolay K]

The article presents only a small part of what was found. You can pay attention to the swastika - the symbol of all Aryans and Slavs. And also say gold and bronze adornments of the "wild" Scythians. I wrote what was the main borrowing: the art of navigation, writing, and possibly in military equipment.

[Chiropractor]

Well, if such a booze went ... then - let's go!

Number one is a pendant, presumably gold. Swastika - does not say anything, because This solar sign is common from Scandinavia to India. Pay attention to the many ducks - perhaps there is a connection with the World Duck which laid the original egg ...

Number two - warriors carry a fallen comrade. Well, cultural experts say that artists / sculptors sculpted only what they saw. Without any fantasies. But they don’t carry the fallen like that - the straightened body of the fallen in armor, each warrior holds the body with one hand. This is possible only in one case - the body is light, i.e. this is a mummy. What is it with the Etruscans with mummies? Next is materials science. Judging by the color of the figures - they are copper. But spears from another material - a remake? The figures are soldered to the base - how did they heat the soldering iron? In a crucible? What was used as solder?

Number three is a chimera. Moor Compared to Russian bells from the 14th to 16th centuries, it looks younger by a couple of centuries in technology - from the 17th to 18th centuries. But there is nothing to complain about - we need to take a closer look.

Number four is polychrome terracotta. Behind the terrible name is colored unglazed clay. A more promoted example is the Chinese terracotta army. Yes, and in the photo the eyes are clearly Chinese

Number five is a vase. There are no swastikas. Why Etruscan? The hoplites are quite Achaean.

Number six is ​​a helmet. Copper again. Bronze and brass are all based on copper, if anyone did not know. How is the plug soldered? The rivet is clearly visible on the fork - what was drilled with? Where is the drill? If pierced with an awl, then the metal is soft. If the metal is soft - why is it a helmet?
The helmet itself is more like stamping than casting.

And so forth ...

[Sweles]

Quote: Kostoprav

Swastika - does not say anything, because This solar sign is common from Scandinavia to India.

the swastika-Kolovrat was never represented in the culture of the ancient Scandinavians or Vikings, but only among the Slavs or among the eastern cultures, however, please, if you know what link ...

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Kostoprav

perhaps there is a connection with the World Duck that laid the original egg

yes, all your "Fomenki and Co" and there is one big duck that was talking nonsense

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

The sarcophagus needs to be turned over. If Chinese, there should be an inscription: Made in China. They always write like that.

[Sweles]

Quote: Glot

Find there, among them, culturally close to Russia? Or did we have similar metal plastic, ceramics, household items and weapons?

here are Etruscan and Greek women in kokoshniks, and kokoshnik is a Russian female jewelry ...

[kalibr]

Where are the men's pants? Or didn’t you notice the painting at the beginning of the article? Are the Slavs howling there? But the tomb is Etruscan ... And there are many paintings where there are not Slavic men at all. Or do you only accept evidence about women?

[Sweles]

Quote: kalibr

Where are the men's pants? Or didn’t you notice the painting at the beginning of the article? Are the Slavs howling there? But the tomb is Etruscan ... And there are many paintings where there are not Slavic men at all. Or do you only accept evidence about women?

you have problems with the presentation of thoughts began? what you wrote here is called like that, Shpakov’s not readable ...

[97110]

Quote: Nikolai K

which carried out expansion mainly along river routes.

He walked like that with his wife (Don Cossack) in the taiga. He asks where is the house? I show. Why are we going there? The road there. After ... minutes he again asks - where is the house? I turn into a swamp - in azimuth to the house. It was possible to reach in about 30 minutes - they walked for 4 hours, surrounded, the acquaintance didn’t recognize the bor ... I mean that in no other way than on the road, expansion is impossible. With cows all the more.

[Nikolay K]

The wife is certainly an argument in a historical dispute. Just in case, read the school history textbook about Russia — the gardarik — the country of cities, the vast majority of them were located on key sections of the rivers. And think about how we could master such a territory, making our way through the forest, without roads. Especially pay attention to the development of the Russian northeast of the Russian plain, and then the taiga. When the Russians built cities / jails on the banks of the rivers and local indigenous tribes retreated into the forests. Yes, actually what I am telling you. . .

[97110]

Quote: Nikolai K

Yes, actually what I am telling you. .

Really. The meaning of my comment - there was no other way for expansion.

[Locksmith]

Quote: 97110

This I mean, that in no other way, except on the road, expansion is impossible. With cows all the more.

I dare to note that a lot depends on skills, for example, I know an electronics engineer who does not distinguish a capacitor from a zener diode

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

In the 60s of the century before last, the Far East was developed along the cupid. In occasion of getting lost in the taiga, I have a similar experience, although not a Don Cossack, but rather a visitor to Rostov with the Far East. Forest land development is more convenient along rivers.

[otto meer]

Quote: Nikolai K

followed by the Slavs-Rus

Forgive me generously, only between these words to put a hyphen, as I think, is wrong. Slavs are one thing; Russes are another. In any case, contemporaries shared these concepts (peoples). There is even a theory that Russes are not people at all, but a social group (such as Varangians-Varangians). But this is only a theory, although very powerful.

[abrakadabre]

About the Varangians, the question is not completely clear: is it a tribe, a social group ...
I propose, as an example, the social group of that era of the Jomsviking.
For 500 years, a later example is the Zaporizhzhya Sich.

[gorefest7777]

In addition, Etruscan letters are read from right to left in Russian .... what a curiosity :)))

[abrakadabre]

[qoute] Scythians came to replace the Cimmerians, and the Slavs-Russians followed them. [/ quote] Eka, you skipped fifteen hundred years of the region’s history. Nor do you mention the Greeks and the Bosporus kingdom. Not part of the Roman Empire. Not ready with their kingdom in the Black Sea and Crimea. You know, they were divided into Visigoths and Ostrogoths, who, among others, rolled Western Europe into the Middle Ages. None of the Hunnic period. No Avar Haganate. No Hungarians ...
So, once RusСs. You have stolen from us one and a half thousand years of a very interesting story. Now return !!! Someone else's taking is not good. This is ours, not yours personally.

[Voice of the Mind]

Quote: kalibr

Seen from envy of the great ukram.

It all started with us earlier) There was such a writer Shcherbakov, about the Russian-Ertrusks, this is just his "jump" in the study of "metahistory"
Shcherbakov can even be attributed to the "progenitors" of Fomenko and company
1) the genetic roots of Old Russian and other Slavic ethnic groups date back to the tribes of the Caucasus. The events that took place in antiquity in the Caucasus are directly related to the topic of the origin of Russia.
2) Kopetdag (Turkmenistan) is Asgard. One and the aces were part of the Alans community and lived in the multi-ethnic Scytho-Sarmatia. And from the aces came the Scandinavians, Pashtuns and Persians.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Genetically, the Slavs do not go back to the Caucasus, but to Transcaucasia. This is obvious: Slavs, Mikoyan, Sargsyan, Martirosyan. Genetically pure their descendants still have an advantage in the sale of vegetables in all markets in the Russian Federation. What do you think? Accident in history does not exist.
And the fair-haired Muscovites are descendants of the Scandinavians who came from Turkmenistan to Sweden and were either insidiously kidnapped by the local Slavs (women) or kindly helped the local women to have offspring.

Excuse me, Vyacheslav, I can't calmly read "poorly studied or treacherously distorted versions of Russian history."

[Voice of the Mind]

Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin

This is obvious: Slavs, Mikoyan, Sargsyan

That's it)) Shcherbakov reasoned about the same thing ... I remember ..
Given: Inscription 4 incomprehensible letters. He reads it as "dumb." Then he replaces "y" with "o", and "and" with "b" and gets "swamp". Then deduction turns on and it turns out that "the Ertruscans were afraid of the flood"
But on the other hand I really want to believe that the Russians, under the guise of Ertrusks, fought with the Atlanteans

[kalibr]

As I understand you ...

[alexej123]

Probably Pimanov's film "Alexandrovsky Garden" was watched and understood "the truth."

[Glot]

Much has been written about this in the USSR, nothing new. Whole books are available.)) "Etruscans, who are they?" I read as a child in the 70s)). There is about Troy and about many other things.

Well, I'm not an etruscologist. He knew that Aeneas had gone to those parts, he did not particularly delve into it. For the time being.

[venaya]

Quote: Red_Hamer

They wrote a lot about this in the USSR

In the USSR, they wrote so much and did not write, it is enough to recall at least the nowadays relevant separation of the inhabitants of Malaya and Belaya Rus into separate nations, although they were all once part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania or otherwise the Russian-Lithuanian state, they are simply Russians, by the way, together with the Lithuanians, to whom the crusaders simply changed the language along with the writing. You probably missed Putin's last speech, where he explained quite clearly that Lenin substituted concepts with the creation of separate nations. It should be remembered that both in the Russian Empire and now in the Russian Federation there are already numerous works of outstanding scientists, for example, such as Yegor Klassen "The Ancient History of the Slavic Russians ..." and countless materials of modern researchers, only there is a problem with their wide distribution and availability.

[Vend]

The secret of the Etruscans has yet to be solved. For example, Etruscan letters are read only in the Slovenian dialect, not in any other language. However, to call the Etruscans Slavs is not right. But the fact that the Etruscans, Vennets and Slavs from one branch, this is very believable.

[venaya]

Quote: Wend

Etruscan letters are read only in the Slovenian dialect, not in any other language

I also met such a version, but for quite some time. The problem is that the Etruscans had more than one form of drinking, as Shpakovsky wrote on this site, but several and not all of them were already unpacked. One of the later versions says that some Etruscan inscriptions in the dialect are closer to the Belarusian dialect of the Russian language. I'll try to insert the sample later, it's hard for me now.

[Vend]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Wend

Etruscan letters are read only in the Slovenian dialect, not in any other language

I also met such a version, but for quite some time. The problem is that the Etruscans had more than one form of drinking, as Shpakovsky wrote on this site, but several and not all of them were already unpacked. One of the later versions says that some Etruscan inscriptions in the dialect are closer to the Belarusian dialect of the Russian language. I'll try to insert the sample later, it's hard for me now.

I meet this version for the first time, but the direction is one Slavic. And it pleases

[yastr]

Another coincidence is curious :))
The coat of arms of the Belarusian city of Pruzhany is one to one similar to the emblem of the automobile concern Alfa Romeo: a man "sticking out" from the mouth of a snake.

[Glot]

although they were all once part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania or otherwise the Russian-Lithuanian state, they are simply Rusichs, by the way, together with the Lithuanians

ON is not a Russian-Lithuanian principality, do not go too far. ON fought with Russia, exactly as it fought with the Horde and the Crusaders. Although it entered into temporary alliances, and there were dynastic marriages with Russian princes. But this was never a Russian-Lithuanian principality.

[Chiropractor]

The Ryazan principality regularly fought with Moscow, but for some reason they are united in Russia, but the Principality of Lithuania for some reason is not ..

[Glot]

The Ryazan principality regularly fought with Moscow, but for some reason they are united in Russia, but the Principality of Lithuania for some reason is not ..

Yes, and Ryazan, and Suzdal with Nizhny and Tver with destinies, all fought. So far, their Moscow fraction has not united into a single conglomerate - VKM, from which the Russian State later emerged.
But ON was never a Russian-Lithuanian state, it is the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Marriages were concluded, they spoke Russian, but there was no Russian-Lithuanian principality, just as there were no Russian-Moscow, Russian-Ryazan principalities and Russo-Novgorod. Jemites, auxhaites and Russians lived on ON, but their principality was not Russian.
We will not allow the Balts to steal the Russian name from us, otherwise they will again have to steal their name from the Ukrainians. We ourselves will become "Ukrainians", but who will they be? "Maydaunami?" "Europics"? They will break the tongue all into ***. This is a disaster!
No ON is not a Russian-Lithuanian principality.

[AK64]

Let's not let the Baltic states steal our name from us,

Heh .... The then "Lithuanians" are the current "Belarusians". And today's “Lithuanians” are the then “zhmud”.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Exactly. And these too. Who wants to be called a slurry? Belarusians poured their former name, they called themselves White Rus. I feel the ring is compressed ... And not only it ...

[Vend]

Quote: Glot

although they were all once part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania or otherwise the Russian-Lithuanian state, they are simply Rusichs, by the way, together with the Lithuanians

ON is not a Russian-Lithuanian principality, do not go too far. ON fought with Russia, exactly as it fought with the Horde and the Crusaders. Although it entered into temporary alliances, and there were dynastic marriages with Russian princes. But this was never a Russian-Lithuanian principality.

Until the 14 century, Lithuanians wrote in Old Russian, there were more than enough documents. But whether they were Russians was a question. Is it possible to call Witches, encouraged, or Lutichs Rusich? But the fact that they belonged to the Slavic branch is undeniable.

[Glot]

Until the 14th century, Lithuanians wrote in Old Russian; there are more than enough documents.

Present. Well there, two or three. With reference to what kind of document, where, dating, etc. Well, it’s clear that it must be authenticated at the academic level.

[kalibr]

Quote: venaya

countless materials of modern researchers, only the problem is with their wide distribution and availability.

In the age of the Internet, everything is available! And do not need "countless" ... this is overkill. Type in Google "historiography ... this or that problem" and everything will be for you. There is even a work of military affairs of the Etruscans, but it is in English.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: venaya

You probably missed Putin’s last speech, where he quite clearly explained that Lenin had come up with a substitution of concepts with the creation of separate nations.

With all due respect to GDP, I would not consider it the ultimate truth.

[Villon]

Quote: Vladimirets

Quote: venaya

You probably missed Putin’s last speech, where he quite clearly explained that Lenin had come up with a substitution of concepts with the creation of separate nations.

With all due respect to GDP, I would not consider it the ultimate truth.

There was indeed a substitution of concepts.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Villon

There was indeed a substitution of concepts.

May be...

[ava09]

Quote: Glot

PS Get ready, now the local "Etruscologists" will wake up and a little war will begin.

You and ShPAK's "Etruscologists" are not local?

(C) In general, it turns out that the goal is the same: "offend Russia." However, the purpose of this “event” is again incomprehensible. Before the 1917 revolution, Russia was an empire whose rulers were closely related to the ruling houses of Europe. That is, there was no sense in this. (C)

I have not read such selfless nonsense for a long time.

[Glot]

You and ShPAK's "Etruscologists" are not local?

In the word "local" I mean - this forum / site. Are you looking wider perhaps? I didn't get it. Yes ?
And I personally, have never been an etruscologist.

By highlighted quote. As I understand it, you are not aware of the kinship of the Romanovs and some of their European rulers, right? Or again I do not understand the course of your thoughts ...

[ava09]

Quote: Glot

As I understand it, you are not aware of the kinship of the Romanovs and some of their European rulers, right? Or again I do not understand the course of your thoughts ...

There is no need to "turn on the fool", as if it was just about "family ties." The fact that the Romanovs are foreigners is not a secret to anyone, as well as the fact that they are relatives of many ruling dynasties in Europe. Only this in no way prevented these "dynasties" from organizing wars against Russia with enviable consistency. The author of the material claims that Europe did not even have any reason to “offend Russia” precisely because of the “family ties” of the Romanovs. And you warmly support this nonsense.

[twviewer]

Quote: ava09

And you are hotly supporting this nonsense.

The use of pseudo-scientific revolutions, e.g. can be considered proven. And you can not count.
My acquaintance is breeding ostriches, if things expand, can we assume that we are descendants of Australian Aborigines ?!

[Glot]

There is no need to "turn on the fool", as if it was just about "family ties." The fact that the Romanovs are foreigners is not a secret to anyone, as well as the fact that they are relatives of many ruling dynasties in Europe. Only this in no way prevented these "dynasties" from organizing wars against Russia with enviable consistency. The author of the material claims that Europe did not even have any reason to “offend Russia” precisely because of the “family ties” of the Romanovs. And you warmly support this nonsense.

There is no need to translate the historical investigation into the nationalist plane, they say all around the enemies and wish evil.
There is no need to distort words, because where does the author assure that Europe has no reason to offend Russia, and even more so where I support this.
One must and clearly answer the question posed.
Or not answer at all.
Have something to say on the topic of the Etruscans? We are listening.
Want to talk about how Europe is trying to annoy Russia? It’s in that branch!

[AK64]

I did not know about this, I thought that they were aborigines on the Apennines.

There were no "aborigines" at all on the Apennines. There are all aliens. And all from the east, which is interesting.

[Glot]

There were no "aborigines" at all on the Apennines. There are all aliens. And all from the east, which is interesting.

That is, you want to say that people never lived on the Apennine Peninsula before the arrival of the "people of the sea" and others?

[AK64]

Someone lived. But they were aliens.
In the 6th century BC, the Apennine Peninsula was not very populated. And if the Greek colonies are removed (which there would be no more than half of the cities and population there), then almost nothing will remain.
The population in comparison with Asia Minor or the same Greece is almost none.

[Villon]

Quote: Glot

There were no "aborigines" at all on the Apennines. There are all aliens. And all from the east, which is interesting.

That is, you want to say that people never lived on the Apennine Peninsula before the arrival of the "people of the sea" and others?

Of course, there were and lived people on the Apennine Peninsula before the arrival of the sea people, but they do not exist for a certain group of "researchers".

[Sweles]

Avda, there is still linguistics, but it cannot yet give an exhaustive answer to the question of the origin of the Etruscan language. Although more than 7000 Etruscan inscriptions are known, his relationship with any family of languages ​​has not been established.

This is not true. There are studies by scientists of the 19th century Volansky, Chertkov, Chyampi, as well as Klassen, whose Etruscan "unreadable" inscriptions were read in Russian.
This is how the famous 19th-century historian Klasssen regarded history.

These UNCONFIDENTIALS include: Bayer, Miller, Schletser, Gebgardi, Parrot, Galling, Georgi and the whole phalanx of their followers. They all Russian, characteristic, assimilated to their tribe and even attempted to take away not only their glory, majesty, power, wealth, industry, trade and all the good qualities of the heart from Slavic-Russ, but even their tribal name - the name of the Russes, known since ancient times as Slavic, not only to all Asian tribes, but also to the Israelites, since their arrival in the promised land. And they Russ are at the head of not only the Romans, but also the ancient Greeks - as their ancestors ...

Unfortunately, I must say that some SLAVIC writers, like Karamzin, Dobrovsky and others - know or not know - but not completely alien to this sin. But maybe these scientists were afraid to go against the then imaginary authorities. We are not talking about some of the newest Russian historians; let them - honestly - tell themselves why they are trying to develop the Schletser system and stigmatize the ancient Slavs

[Sweles]

video about the "Roman Empire", Etruscans and Great Tartary ...

[Glot]

There are studies of scientists of the 19th century Volansky, Chertkov, Chyampi, as well as Klassen, whose Etruscan "unreadable" inscriptions were read in Russian.

And you here, here right here put a photo (crisp and clear) of a couple of three Etruscan epigraphic artifacts, and we'll see if we can read them, or not.
Only that it would be clearly definitely certain what kind of artifact, where and so on.
And if we can read them, these texts are honor and praise to you. But no, the blasphemy is a disgrace to you.
We wait !

[Sweles]

a boy with a bird. All inscriptions are decrypted by Volansky, namely
In the Russian language (in the original):
Will give; maybe for a moment it’s nice.
In Russian:
I give will; maybe something from her dear tea [expects].
you can download Klasen "The oldest stories of the Slavs ..." and see what's what ...

[Glot]

a boy with a bird. All inscriptions are decrypted by Volansky, namely
In the Russian language (in the original):
Will give; maybe for a moment it’s nice.
In Russian:
I give will; maybe something from her dear tea [expects].
you can download Klasen "The oldest stories of the Slavs ..." and see what's what ...

This picture, it’s not clear where it came from and who painted it, is NOT EVIDENCE.
Lord, well, for criticism then ...
DO NOT NEED ANY DRAWINGS, AND MORE THAN SOME DECODED.
PHOTO OF THE ORIGINAL, if any.
And since you and your colleague Venua assure us that we can freely read the Etruscan language, we will read it freely.

In short, I thought that YOU HAVE NO evidence of your delirium.
Show the girl with peaches.

[ALLxANDr]

Watch this video: https://youtu.be/Mr8R-VgyQB0

It shows the original and its transcript. Plus the whole background. Even if he does not convince, in any case it will be interesting.

With respect.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

So that's where this kid's "Cho" comes from - from the Etruscans! Today is the day of insights.

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, yes ..... I've already tried to rhyme words for a song like "Lube": "Give Alyasochka back!" ...., and here is a refutation!

[siberalt]

Watch the film "Phaistos Disc". It is there that the Slavic origin of the Etruscans is based on the Slavic writing on it. Why come up with some kind of name for the Etruscans, when already in the word itself there is a root "rus". And as for the author's conviction in the position of the German Romanov family, as ardent defenders of the Russian were, then thank you. It was they who rewrote it.

[ALLxANDr]

I am not against Etruscan, not against Russians ... it’s me that I don’t need to immediately attribute me to this or that camp - I’m just curious. I was born after the 60-70s ... the books that you read probably didn’t come across my eyes .. and the story, that same lady, capricious .. they write it, it’s erased, it’s rewritten .. This article is nothing does not refute and does not prove anything, with all due respect to the author. I am not saying that the article is good or bad, there are simply a lot of similar articles, both from one confrontation camp and from another. And there will be even more, without research, with links to various sources, authoritative and not very.

But back to Etruscan, I recalled one of the first videos that I watched: https://youtu.be/AGbsZiJpH74

After this viewing, a lot of water flowed away, I looked and read a lot on this topic too ... so the opinion was mixed. And the cows certainly smiled at me, thanks)

[V.ic]

Fuck two times. Well, and what if the Etruscans are not Russian? Koza understands that two and a half thousand years ago no "Russians" lived on the Apennine Peninsula. Explain to me, siroma, the similarity in the name of the pearl of Italy - Venice and the name of the Vened tribe / Venets / Wends /. Also an accidental consonance?

[venaya]

Quote: V.ic

Well, and what if the Etruscans are not Russian? Kose understands that two and a half thousand years ago, no "Russians" lived on the Apennine Peninsula.

A study by Serbian scientists shows that not so much Russians lived on the territory of the "Trypillian culture" as Rusichs, the record of the presence of "Zhivina Rus" is present on the lid of the stone sarcophagus, and the writing used there is very similar to one of the forms of writing used on the territory of Erutrea. By the way, Serbia was not so long ago called Raska, that is, little Russia. The sarcophagus itself, which is at least 7000 years old, was discovered 18 kilometers south of today's Belgrade, from there not far from both Vienna and Venice. So what was the self-name of the people who were autohonically living before Aeneas in Erutreya so far, whether it can be determined with high accuracy. It was only after the capture of Rome by the Latins (wild tribes of the Mediterranean race) that the Etruscans concocted a simplified alphabet for them, based on the very ancient Russian writing, which by the way is very reminiscent of our writing today. Do you think it looks like a coincidence too?
I will add that Rome was never a capital city in Erutrei, but Venice was such a capital city.

[V.ic]

Quote: venaya

after the capture of Rome by the Latins (wild tribes of the Mediterranean race)

The Dorians who conquered Greece were probably also culturally slightly below Mycenaean culture?

Quote: venaya

Rome was never the capital city of Erutrea,

Would you like to say that the Duce climbed into Ethiopia (1935-1936 / Eritrea / to establish the empire of the Ruthenians?

[venaya]

Quote: V.ic

The Dorians who conquered Greece were probably also culturally slightly below Mycenaean culture?

Yes, what a little, frank savages, that is a lot of evidence, if it is interesting, then I will try to send the info to the PM, naturally at will.

[V.ic]

Quote: venaya

I’ll try to send the info to the PM, naturally at will.

With pleasure! If it does not bother you.

[kalibr]

Everything is in the article, I do not want to discuss anything else. I also gave a list of references ... There is also a Etruscan language section in the same Wikipedia section, including very authoritative publications. It’s clear that Vicki is a so-so source. But you need to look at the list of references that is given there.

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

I also gave a list of references ... There is also the Etruscan language section in Wikipedia in the same section. Wiki is a so-so source. But you need to look at the list of references that is given there.

References are. But this does not mean that there is scientific evidence in it.

[kalibr]

Well, open these books and read!

[siberalt]

It is a pity that all the current "professors" from Wikipedia. Well, complete degradation! In addition to the list of references, you must at least familiarize yourself with it. The article is clearly pro-Western.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: venaya

not so long ago it was called Raska, that is, little Russia.

Well, that’s it - they will introduce the Nobel Prize in Linguistics and History especially for you - I’m calling you specifically for this 03
PS But everything is actually more serious, when the Serbs settled "there" - there was a Roman city and was called Ras - when they conquered the city and they created a state and they were called Raska zemlja, and in Latin Rassa or Rascia, and they called Serbs Rasciani.
In general, the place where the Serbs lived they (that is, the Serbs themselves) called ZHUPA!
And they called the senior (prince) on the ZhUPE ZhUPAN!
The public is urgently waiting for your new research on this topic!

[Volzhanin]

Actually, all the achievements that Rome gave as their own, in fact, were completely the achievements of the Etruscans, who, most likely, assimilated with the future Romans and left them (and also themselves) knowledge and infrastructure.

[ALLxANDr]

And these are very ancient cemeteries confirm! I saw the inscriptions.

[andrew42]

Salerno, - "Solentsy erected a city by the sea." In northern Italy, the names of many cities are still with purely Slavic roots. Venice is the crown and is, direct reading. Milan, TURin, Bologna, Parma, ..

[kalibr]

I am not a linguist, you too! The article has what it is - read. If something is incomprehensible or you want to deepen, look at the work of Soviet linguists dealing with this problem. I have enough Italian geneticists.

[Red_Hamer]

Modern Russians certainly did not live, but their ancestors, apparently, yes! Lived, and where else! As there "In the word about Igor's regiment" - There were Troyan's centuries, Yaroslav's years passed; there were campaigns Olegov, Oleg Svyatoslavich. ...

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: V.ic

Explain to me, siroma, the similarities in the name of the pearl of Italy - Venice and the name of the tribe of Wends / Venets / Wends /. Also a random consonance?

1. Well, initially, "random consonances" are in all languages ​​of the world, because the number of words tends to infinity, and the number of sounds to zero. This is "mathematics".
2. The word Venda has 5 letters, the word Venice has 7 letters. The fact that in a word of 7 letters 3 letters are common with another word of 5 letters .... then this is of course YES, according to probability theory there is a one in a billion chance!
3. I am not a specialist, and here the matter is still dark, but experts believe that apparently Wenden (him) in the west of Russia, and Veneti (lat) in the north of Italy.
Therefore, most likely there is a "translation inaccuracy" - as in the case of the Germans (self-name Deutsche - and for some reason they are called TUSKI in Scandinavian languages) whose most famous representatives in Russia "for some reason" were actually either Austrians or Swiss
4. Well, in general, history expects from you new "disruptions of the secret veils"!
You can devote yourself to the matter of discovering the truth that the Indians = Indians and Austria = Australia and of course do not forget that the population of Austria (as well as Germany) is called TUSKI by the Scandinavians, that is, TURKS are actually TURKS there, it’s obvious !!!

[alebor]

How can one not recall the medieval county of Roussillon, which was located on the border between France and Spain and got its name from, think only, a settlement called Ruskino! - That's where there is room for the fantasies of our homegrown historians!
Yes, and in the name of the African state of Rwanda, perhaps someone also hears something native, Russian! If you open a geographical map and look for all kinds of geographical names on different continents or delve into the names of tribes, then, if you wish and have good imagination, you can find a bunch of places where the ancient Slavs lived: from Western Europe to South America and Australia.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: alebor

You can find a bunch of places where the ancient Slavs lived: from Western Europe to South America and Australia.

And do not say!
Everywhere were our ancient ancestors, founded the city of Ebene in Austria - they went there for a long time.
But North America went even longer - there the city was founded by Joppa.
But in the south they didn’t like it even more, the evil Honduras live there, the only worse in Africa is Gabon.
In general, they regretted that they came there, left a memory of themselves only in the form of monuments of Mesoamerica and the city in Salvador (SaloVvoDvor) Nahuizalko called

[venaya]

Quote: alebor

located on the border between France and Spain and deriving its name from ... a settlement called Ruskino! ... you can find a bunch of places where the ancient Slavs lived: from Western Europe to South America

Let me remind you: before the seizure of power by Rome in the Frankish empire and the formation of the Holy Roman Empire, the Franks were ruled by the Merovingian dynasty. So their main religion was the religion of the Druids, this religion is completely analogous to the religion of the Russian tribes located on the Great Russian Plain, there were many of them here. You have never wondered that the language of the Romance language group, often called "cook's Latin", is now used in France. But earlier, until the XNUMXth century, this territory was also called Porusia. I think it is not surprising that a dialect of a language very close to modern Russian could be used in this territory, think.

[AK64]

Let me remind you: before the seizure of power by Rome in the empire of the Franks and the formation of the Holy Roman Empire, the Merovingian dynasty ruled the Franks. So the main religion they had was the Druid religion, this religion is completely analogous to the religion of the Russian tribes located on the Great Russian Plain, there were many of them.

Hung, th ...
Is it okay that the Franks are actually a German tribal union? And that they were almost completely Christianized? And the Druids (by the way, what is the "religion of the Druids?") Is generally the Celts.

Indeed, in the garden of elderberry and uncle in Kiev!

[Glot]

Indeed, in the garden of elderberry and uncle in Kiev!

No, it’s more like an elder in my head, and an uncle in Etruria.

[venaya]

Quote: AK64

Are the Franks actually a German tribal union? And that they were almost completely Christianized? And the Druids (by the way, what is the "religion of the Druids?") Is generally the Celts.

You amused me, thanks. Question: When, in what years did the Franks, not only completely, but at least partially begin to Christianize? Really before the process of Christianization of the Romans themselves? According to history, the last of the Merovingian dynasty was killed by people of the future Charlemagne, who was hired by the Roman papacy, for the purpose of Christianizing the population of new lands and, naturally, further economic enslavement. In those years, only in Rome did a new sect of Abrahamic Christianity unfold; this religion could not reach the territory of present-day France. So, Merovingians killed his castle sleeping under an oak tree, a clear sign of the religious preference of both the leader and his subjects. Question: those whom you call the Celts, in what language did you communicate, if already in the 95th century XNUMX% of the research population was still Russian-speaking? And the same religion was widespread in our territory, and there are still those who worship the oak tree as a sacred tree. Faith of Druids: faith in the power of trees. The veneration of a tree as a god.

[AK64]

You amused me, thanks.

It seems to you to show a finger, so you will laugh for three days

Question: When, in what years did the Franks, not only completely, but at least partially begin to Christianize? Really before the process of Christianization of the Romans themselves?

You were banned from Google that you can’t recognize all this?

According to history, the last of the Merovingian dynasty was killed by people of the future Charlemagne, who was hired by the Roman papacy, for the purpose of Christianizing the population of new lands and, naturally, further economic enslavement. In those years, only in Rome did a new sect of Abrahamic Christianity unfold; this religion could not reach the territory of present-day France.

Horrible....
Horrible....
This is the end.

The last king from the Merovingians remained king until the 751th and died in a monastery (actually deposed) in the 755th. Charlemagne was only rushing either in 742 or in 747. That is, he overthrew the Merovingians as a 10-year-old boy.

From Rome, classical Rome, by that time nothing was left. Actually, the Western Roman Empire ordered a long life in the 4th - 5th century (the exact event is not important, but by the 5th century it was not at all.)
Christianity is becoming the official religion in the Eastern Roman Empire under Constantine, that is, at the beginning of the 4th century.

And yet, yes, the Germans adopted Christianity earlier than the Romans.

In general, it’s clear that there’s nothing to talk about and no one with it --- the gloomy Fomenkovism will begin now ... I guessed right?

Therefore, I don’t comment on everything below - it’s useless

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Not the Druids, but the Druedains, not the great Russian plain, but in Rovanion, not the Merovingians, but the Beornings, and Porussia is the territory along the Poros River (400 miles long), cross the southern Itilien, located between Mordor and Anduin and bordering Harad in the south. By the way, the Druedains are translated from the language of the Halet people as the Friend of the Edaines, which speaks of the undoubted proximity of the language of this ancient people to Russian. Do not believe me, look at Wikipedia !!!

(Vyacheslav respect again ).

[V.ic]

Quote: Mr. PIP

Well, in general, history expects from you new "disruptions of the secret veils"!

Do you say that? It’s time for Mina to reflect on the dominion, and not Klio to undress. You really do some nudistics yourself.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Regarding Roussillon, your question is probably closed, it is in Spain.
But the tower in Pisa know why it falls? So after all, cement for the foundation spiz ****. Does this not speak of the Russian origin of Italians? Did you steal the word? This is because the Tiber River spilling in the spring carried away with its waters into the sea a crop of Etruscans!

[Volzhanin]

But the author is also going to "write" the second part, or even the third ...
It would be better not to start.

[venaya]

Quote: Volzhanin

But the author is also going to "write" the second part, It would be better not to start.

Well, why so, because it is so fun here, you can immediately see who is breathing with something, so that there are no unexpected surprises in the future. Personally, I learn a lot here, in the comments.

[Reptiloid]

As always ---- wonderful photos!

[Nexus 6]

Auto RU. Thank you for the article. As for the "connoisseurs" of history, they cannot be convinced by scientific methods! For such people, it is more a matter of "faith". To change their opinion, on a number of questions, maybe only even more branchy cranberries.

Not the topic, but! It would be interesting to read about propaganda in ancient Rome ...

[kalibr]

How did not like your comment - time and minus and not even one. As for propaganda in Rome ... a very interesting topic. I will try to make material specifically for you about this (I think that it will be interesting to everyone), especially since this topic is related to PR, and I have a textbook on the history of PR.

[Nexus 6]

This is great! Echoes of Roman propaganda are still roaming today. An excursion into the history of PR, I am sure it will be useful for everyone to find out - "how it all began."

[Glot]

As for the "connoisseurs" of history, they cannot be convinced by scientific methods!

It's right. Sick people, what to take from them. Now they’ll get a lot of minuses, since they’re not capable of anything. This alone is worth it. He will reward the little girl, there is a lot of evidence - zero. Although he won the above already promised to provide the facts. True to the PM. And then, such sacred knowledge should only be whisper, whisper in your ear.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Glot

And then, such sacred knowledge should only be whisper, whisper in your ear.

And you thought it was the "Masons" themselves who hide the truth, but after his comments he probably sleeps in the light - scary for life

[Good cat]

Almost every historical article has a photo of museum weapons, armor, etc., and almost every time it is either the United States or Britain. Significantly impudent all over the world!

[V.ic]

Quote: Good cat

Significantly impudent all over the world!

Yes Kleptomaniacs! / In short dives.

[kalibr]

Yes, they did not miss their own. But ... you would know how many in OUR MUSEUMS. And I'm not talking about the Hermitage, Pushkin, GIM ... In my museum of local history in Penza there are armor of a samurai, there is a shield made of rhinoceros skin from Ethiopia / Somalia, if German wheel pistols and muskets are, are, are .... We just WE ARE NOT ABLE (AND CANNOT!) ALL SUBMIT THIS. Poor! And here is how to do everything, as in MM you need a lot of money! In the Penza Museum, the photo costs 100 p. and there are no conditions to remove. And ... why should I go there when in MM I can take any photo?

[parusnik]

Thank you for the article and wonderful photos ..And this means that no Etruscans are Russian, and they were never our ancestors!..Vyacheslav, here you got excited, Shcha, they’ll prove to you on fingers that everything is far from right ..

[kalibr]

Yes, let me at least x ... show, genetics can not be fooled. And enough about that, "fooling around." There are much more interesting topics. Now I am contacting a number of Etruscan museums in Tuscany, I will try to write in more detail about the Etruscan weapons and armor. We still have a military site here.

[vadimtt]

"Genetics is the corrupt girl of imperialism!", So it won't convince the "believers" of anything

PS: Or was it about cybernetics when the Central Committee of the CPSU was worried that it would be replaced by "thinking machines"?

[kalibr]

About genetics it was like this: "venal Mendelian-Morgan genetics, which comes into conflict with Soviet Michurin science" (Academician Lysenko)

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

There are much more interesting topics. We still have a military site here.

Strange logic: since the site is military, it means that the Etruscans should not be discussed. And why the article then? If you say that your article is military, then why not discuss it? And the article talks about genetics.

[kalibr]

This topic has already been worked out for me, now there are more interesting ones.

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

genetics cannot be fooled. And enough about that, "fooling around."

That's right, genetics cannot be fooled. Tuscan cows are genetically close to Turkish cows, and that's it. Everything else is "stupid".

[AK64]

Yes, let me at least for x ... show, genetics can not be fooled. And enough about that, "fooling around."

People who have no idea about the details of scientific methods are divided into two types:
type A: blind trust in the authority of shaman scholars
type B: equally blind denial of everything

In fact, there is no special difference between these types: both are the essence of ignorance.

So the caliber belongs to type A: not understanding anything, blindly believes. He is not interested in the methods of these "gene tests", because he will not understand anything about this anyway - not his topic, he is a humanitarian.
(Humanities are such strange people who read everything that they know in books written by other humanities, but this is such a cycle)

Well, a natural scientist, that is, a real scientist, always when he sees the data, the first thing he asks is, "How exactly were these data obtained? Measured with what? How was the experiment planned?" And these questions are not from mistrust, they are natural-scientific curiosity: one must understand how colleagues can work!

So: I somehow learned something about the methods of collecting these very genetic data - not THESE specifically, but others, but essentially the same. I was surprised for a long time. And after that I do not believe all these "genetic conclusions".

Anyway, for hummingbird: scientists do not fetch any data if the method for obtaining them is not described. So: the method of obtaining these very genetic data is not known to you.

[Lebedev Sergey]

It can be considered proven that the ancient Etruscans moved to Italy from Asia Minor, where they lived on the territory of modern Turkey. Comparing the genetic data of the inhabitants of the Tuscan region (ancient Etruria) with the data of citizens from Turkey, scientists of the University of Turin concluded that they are obvious similarities

So the Etruscans are Turks?

[kalibr]

These are not Turks! This is the ancient population of Asia Minor, with a part of which the late Turks mixed, that's all. And the ancestors of the Etruscans, having moved to Italy, as Herodotus wrote about this, mixed up a bit with the local population, but eventually disappeared completely.

[Lebedev Sergey]

Etruscans against ... Russian!

How many people, so many opinions. According to Doctor of Philosophy Valery Demin, "among the besieged defenders of Troy were the Slavs. Homer calls them Enets. These are the same Wends (Veneti) who were later known throughout Europe. ant "- the same as the ethnonym Anty (as the Slavs were nicknamed by Byzantine historians). Antenor and his Enets had some special relationship with the Greeks, so they allowed him and another lucky man - the future ancestor of the Roman state Aeneas - to leave Troy alive after its capture and the total destruction of all the other defenders. The rest is well known at least from Virgil's Aeneid: Aeneas and Antenor sailed to Italy, where they laid the foundation for the future Roman civilization. The name Aeneas is consonant with the ethnonym Eneta, which also speaks for itself.
All this was well understood by Mikhail Vasilyevich Lomonosov (1711-1765), opening the history of the Slavic peoples with the following powerful chords: "The majesty of the Slavic people <...> even extends to the fabulous Hellenic times and is known from the Trojan War. Enets, Venets, or Wends, the people of the Slovenian generation, with their king Pilimon, being in Troy for her protection from the enemies, lost their sovereign and in order to unite with Antenor, they drove off to the inner end of the Adriatic Sea and, settling along the shores, where the Venetian possession is now, spread far. "
old.redstar.ru/2002/04/10_04/4_01.html

[RPG_]

There were no Turks then, so they are more likely to be Trojans. (Or else someone from the peoples of the sea)

[Villon]

Quote: Sergey Lebedev

It can be considered proven that the ancient Etruscans moved to Italy from Asia Minor, where they lived on the territory of modern Turkey. Comparing the genetic data of the inhabitants of the Tuscan region (ancient Etruria) with the data of citizens from Turkey, scientists of the University of Turin concluded that they are obvious similarities

So the Etruscans are Turks?

Of course. And there is evidence. Here it is:
1st step: Turks are not Russian.
So the Etruscans can be Turks.
2nd step: According to the studies of Italian geneticists, Tuscan cows are genetically close to Turkish cows.
So the Etruscans are Turks.

[andrew42]

Well, yes, that's why the author's "logic" is outraged. Of course, you exaggerate about the Turks, but the "pre-Indo-European tribes of Asia Minor" are worse than the Turks.

[alexej123]

And you tell me, who are the Turks? There is such a hodgepodge that just hold on.

[Vasily Vasilyev]

About the cows smiled.
Thus, in our area (south of the Pskov region), scientists would establish that we are the ancestors of the Australians, since 70-80% of the herd was brought how many years from there)))))
And a stupid question. But Tuscany was not invaded by the Ottoman Turks? And then there are too many coincidences of chromosomes with Turkey. And where did the scientists get the Etruscan gene material? Where is this elusive Joe hiding?

[kalibr]

Tuscany was not invaded by the Turks. As for the genetic material, I do not know. But I know that any serious statement coming out of the university must meet the requirement of verifiability.

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

Tuscany was not invaded by the Turks. As for the genetic material, I do not know. But I know that any serious statement coming out of the university must meet the requirement of verifiability.

Of course, it should, but does not always meet this requirement. Otherwise there would be no scientific debate.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Most of the world's population of Holstein Friesian cows. They are kept and serviced in premises that are more reminiscent of production workshops than the usual "collective farm" cowsheds. There is no point in checking them. Apparently, "pets" in the "private sector" were checked.
The gene material of the Etruscan was not taken as such. Scientists made the assumption that in those territories that, judging by written sources, were inhabited by Etruscans, the descendants of these same Etruscans still live as family members who did not change their address in the nearest retrospective and have surnames uncharacteristic of the population of other parts of Italy , where apparently the Etruscans did not live in antiquity. Science, of course, is not an exact thing, but it uses the most reliable research methods.
The occupation by the Ottoman Turks of Italy is not recorded in historical documents.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Vasily Vasiliev

About the cows smiled.
Thus, in our area (south of the Pskov region), scientists would establish that we are the ancestors of the Australians, since 70-80% of the herd was brought how many years from there

Investigated aboriginal breeds, which obviously did not live there "for several years".

[ALLxANDr]

Do you have data on which cows lived in this area 200-300-500 years ago?

[Red_Hamer]

The author decided to have some fun! )) What is your name, "Etruscans against ... Russians!" Oh how! Directly not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! On knurled technologies! Turn any serious topic into a farce, and it will cease to be such. Who and when said that (Indo-Europeans) a controversial term but oh well, did not live in Asia Minor? We lived, and a lot, and it was there! And in northwestern China, they lived! They also lived in Afghanistan, India and Pakistan, and even now they still meet. Yes, most likely it was from Troy that the ancestors of the Etruscans came, no one argues with Herodotus. And much of what he wrote is confirmed by modern research. In the picture, a girl of the Kalash people, this is in Pakistan.

[Vasily Vasilyev]

Bravo!
The caption is a masterpiece. The Kalash people thrive from Africa to the USA (even there they love our Kalashnikov very much))))))
In general, I really want to understand the meaning of the toponym Perugia. Some argue that this is "Porussia", that is, the border of the Russian lands. In the same way as Prussia. I would like the author to present arguments against it.

[Red_Hamer]

Unfortunately, not from Kalashnikov,)) Kalashi (self-name: kasivo; the name "Kalash" comes from the name of the locality)

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

How the word "Moldavia" appeared. The Red Army came in 1939 and said: "We have occupied Bessarabia, and now you, they say, give it to us." This is how Moldavians and Moldavia appeared.
And in some places they came and pearly. So there was Prussia, Perugia and Peru.
Well, what are you really? As if you don’t know your native language!

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Red_Hamer

In the picture, a Kalash girl is in Pakistan.

Why only one picture ?! A little to see a lot of them, the benefit of the Internet abound?
Quote:
"weakened pigmentation is characteristic only for a part of the population, most of the Kalash have dark hair and exhibit a characteristic Mediterranean type inherent in their flat neighbors. Homozygous inbreeding depigmentation is characteristic to one degree or another for all surrounding peoples who have lived for thousands of years in isolated endogamous conditions of mountain valleys with a very weak inflow gene pool from outside: Nuristanis, Dardas, Pamir peoples, as well as non-Indo-European aborigines of Burish.
Recent genetic studies show that Kalash demonstrate a set of haplogroups common to the Indo-Afghan population. Typical Y-chromosome haplogroups for Kalash are: L (25%), R1a (18,2%), G (18,2%), J2 (9,1%); mitochondrial: L3a (22,7%), H1 * (20,5%)
And by the way, a photo of children from the Burishi tribe (Pakistan)

[Red_Hamer]

It is natural that a small community among the sea of ​​other bloods dissolves in it. There are about 6 thousand of them left, and as you rightly noticed, they are pretty assimilated. In addition, a derivative from the (Russian) haplogroup R1a1, as you yourself noticed, is the same as among the higher castes of India. I would add there is still! Why did I bring that photo, everything is just in your photo, they are in everyday clothes. And on the one that I brought to the folk. And this costume can tell a lot to a knowledgeable person. Read the literature about "Russian embroidery and ornaments" this is not just patterns, this is a "letter" if you like. In Russia and in the 20th century, they could use it to determine who you are and where you are from, not married, how many people are in the family, in the family, in whom they believe, etc. So that girl has not just a folk costume)) he is speaking Here is a photo, and yes these are not Bulgarians))

[Red_Hamer]

here's another interesting photo

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Red_Hamer

here's another interesting photo

And here is a photo of an albino Negro, and I’ve seen thousands of such people in the Ryazan Region

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Kalashi in Pakistan are the descendants of captured Red Army soldiers and the fair-haired descendants of Odin, who mixed up the northwest and southeast.

[Volzhanin]

Kalash are excellent woodcarvers. They always made all their furniture themselves - beds, chairs, tables, and decorated them with symbols that are so familiar to Russian people. They decorated them with various types of solar symbols, including swastika. The same Vedic symbols were used by Russian masters to decorate, for example, spinning wheels. Researchers note that chairs and tables were not used by local Aboriginal Muslims. They appeared in Afghanistan and Pakistan only with the advent of the British in the 18-19 centuries, but they did not take root, and Kalash used tables and chairs from time immemorial.
Of course, attributing to Russian Kalash is problematic, but the fact that we have common ancestors is beyond doubt.

[Isk1984]

That is, the Romans called them Etruscans, they themselves called themselves Tyrrhenes, and the sea also had the entomological name Tyrrhenian ...

[avaks1]

And how the guys sculpted 2000 years ago, you’ll just be envious! Is this for sure BC? Are not the Middle Ages? And, like, some still decrypted the Etruscan

[Villon]

And it turned out that about 60% of the mitochondrial DNA of cows from Tuscany is identical to the mitochondrial DNA of cows from the Middle East and Asia Minor, that is, in the homeland of the legendary Etruscans. At the same time, this study did not establish a relationship between Tuscan cows and cattle from the north and south of Italy.

More about who the Tuscan cows were compared to, the article does not say. Can I conclude from this that Tuscan cows were not compared with northern European cows, including Russians? If so, then research cannot be considered scientific, or is an example of fraud in science.

[kalibr]

Has this thought crossed your mind? I came! Why do you think that it did not occur to other researchers and the authors of the work? Are they dumber than you? It must be assumed that the results are sufficiently motivated just to disavow such comments. But ... no one is stopping you from contacting this university, these scientists and expressing all these doubts to them. I am sure you will receive a comprehensive answer.

[venaya]

Quote: kalibr

Are they dumber than you?

They are not stupider at all, they are much more impudent, their general principle is: "Salvage does not smell!". Receiving their academic" 40 pieces of silver "in the form of 150 rubles, not counting the additional payment, is straightforward according to K. Marx:"... capable of any crimeincluding murder. "

[Glot]

They are not stupider at all, they are much more impudent, their general principle is: "Salvage does not smell!" Receiving their academic "40 pieces of silver" in the form of 150 rubles, not counting the additional payment, is straightforward according to Karl Marx: "... Capable of any crime, including murder."

Well, of course, everything, all the scientists of the whole world are corrupt ... But all sorts of charlatans, making a living publishing silly little books, they are not perverting history, they are saints.
Stop stupid then grind !!!
I have a friend, a candidate of historical sciences, some of the published works have already exceeded a hundred, his salary is 40000 rubles and that's it. Sometimes a person really doesn’t have enough for travel and lunch, he “shoots” at his acquaintances to the RFP. And you are talking nonsense about "venality" and "150000"!

[V.ic]

Quote: Glot

Sometimes a person really doesn’t have enough for travel and lunch, he “shoots” at his acquaintances to the RFP.

Let Soros call, or the red Chubys.

[Glot]

Let Soros call, or the red Chubys.

You freak, with the letter "M", as Shukshin said. What to take from such ...

[Villon]

Quote: Glot

I have a friend, a candidate of historical sciences, some of the published works have already exceeded a hundred, his salary is 40000 rubles and that's it. Sometimes a person really doesn’t have enough for travel and lunch, he “shoots” at his acquaintances to the RFP.

As far as I understand, the conversation was not about Russian scientists, but about Italian geneticists. Why are you confusing us by connecting your friend, and then reproach with forty thousand?

[Glot]

As far as I understand, the conversation was not about Russian scientists, but about Italian geneticists. Why are you confusing us by connecting your friend, and then reproach with forty thousand?

In general, I did not answer you, but this ... Wenyaua ...
And he actually wrote this:

Receiving their academic "40 pieces of silver" in the form of 150 rubles, not counting the additional payment, straight according to Karl Marx:

Or do you think scientists pay in rubles in Italy?
Yes, and he, vryat Italians meant.

So, for the future, before answering, understand the essence of what you are trying to answer.

[Mwg]

Dear GLOT, do you remember Shura Balaganov from Ilf and Petrov? "Saw, Shura, saw, is she golden"? So some of our scientists are sawing ....)))

[kalibr]

You probably know many people personally, you know their scientific works well, right? We already had a conversation about this, right? I asked you -Who are you, that from "such heights" judge what you obviously do not know. There was no answer.

[Mwg]

Sign, unfortunately. and even watched how some dissertations were made, and how scientific topics of young and novice "authoritative workers of science" were appropriated, corrected and passed off as their own. BUT. Such gentlemen did not always and did not quite understand the essence of the idea and, as a result, a multi-page dummy was obtained on a promising topic with all the established requirements for such work. As a result, an idea brought to the point of absurdity is completely unrealizable due to the deliberate replacement of the incomprehensible by trivial reasoning on the topic of probabilities with irrelevant examples and reference to authoritative sources.
So, there are many such works. And in the authorship of one person there can also be many of them. However, quantity does not always mean quality.
Many called, but few called. Something like this.

[kalibr]

Watching and doing things yourself are different, right?

[Mwg]

Yes, of course different. A scientific degree for the sake of a scientific degree is nonsense, since at the root of it lies the desire to receive preferences from the position. And nothing more. From there the legs of all kinds of "scientists" and their "authoritative opinions" grow. Out of a thirst for preferences for the sake of preferences. Business like that.
And we are not talking here about form, but about content. Not about business, but about the reliability of statements. And if the statements contradict common sense, are too complex and have reservations and references to previously made unverified statements, then they contradict one of the methodological principles of science: Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate. Occam's razor. Yes there, you should know about him. Is not it?

[kalibr]

Well, I know about Occam, if you read my articles here, I even remembered him. But ... if you know all this and understand. You should also know that usually mediocrity after receiving a degree further and does not climb. He writes a couple of articles so as not to be kicked out, just as stupid as that. And if a person is a specialist, then he writes monographs that are accepted by his colleagues and have good reviews. In any case, this is the case in England, and here too ... to a sufficient degree. And if he is such a specialist, then one has to reckon with his opinion. And he is not obliged to chew everything for every first grader and to prove something. He simply does not have time for this - to argue with ignoramuses and fools. Life is short, but you have to do a lot!

[kalibr]

You know, I have never met such a quivering love for money "there", but here in Russia at every step. Moreover, I noticed an interesting thing - you can buy very many from us not even for money, which would be understandable, but ... with stories about money. Well, we are used to counting rubles to the salary, and we think out of habit that everyone and everywhere is like that. But this is not the case.

[Mwg]

I read your profile. I ask you not to accept my general discussions on the topic of science as personal attacks. I didn’t have such a goal. Regarding influences on opinions, the Chicago gangster Al Capone said well: It's easy to negotiate with money, but it's easier to negotiate with money and a gun at the temple. Alas, this happens in the world of science. There are examples of obstruction of scientists in the West for trying to develop inconvenient theories, again a system of grants. Depending on the purpose and object of influence, means are also chosen. Unfortunately, independence is an extremely relative concept.
I actually believe that official theories regarding the origin of man, the history of his development, the formation of statehood and society are as far from realities as the declared ideas of the holy inquisition about the world order. The essence of man and his motives have not changed from the time of myths to the present, respectively, and event logic has not changed. All that is not logical is incorrect, or an unidentified element is present in the process.

[kalibr]

In principle, I am in favor. In detail, attempts by Fomenko and Co. to demonstrate your "unidentified element" are simply ridiculous. However, many speak from these positions. I see no reason to argue with them.

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

Has this thought crossed your mind? I came! Why do you think that it did not occur to other researchers and the authors of the work?

I did not think and do not think that this idea did not occur to "other researchers" and the authors of the work themselves. But from what came to their minds, it does not at all follow that they gave her any expression in their studies or works, or compared Tuscan cows with northern European cows. You can do whatever you want with thought. You can give it development, you can put it aside, or you can shut up. Here you may have this idea, too, came to mind when you wrote the article, however, you did not give it any expression. Or didn’t such a thought occur to you?

Quote: kalibr

Are they dumber than you?

I do not think so. But I think that there are many authors of studies or works who consider themselves smarter than their readers.

Quote: kalibr

It must be assumed that the results are sufficiently motivated just to disavow such comments.

If you still explained what this means.

Quote: kalibr

But ... no one is stopping you from contacting this university, these scientists and expressing all these doubts to them. I am sure you will receive a comprehensive answer.

I am sure of that too. It only seems that we have a different understanding of the meaning of the word exhaustive. And in vain do you call comments doubt. What doubts may be that either the Italian researchers did not compare the Tuscan cows with the North European, or you did not write about it?

[kalibr]

So do this little and your first ever study in this area. And then tell us here - I'm sure everyone will benefit!

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

So do this little and your first ever study in this area. And then tell us here - I'm sure everyone will benefit!

Do you suggest that I compare the genes of Tuscan cows with the genes of Northern European? So, admit that this comparison was not made?

[kalibr]

Lord The article is all, ALL WRITTEN! I offered you my questions and doubts to address where this study was carried out and make their brains.

[AK64]

More about who the Tuscan cows were compared to, the article does not say. Can I conclude from this that Tuscan cows were not compared with northern European cows, including Russians? If so, then research cannot be considered scientific, or is an example of fraud in science.

But now I will prove to all of you that Russian is ... in general, Arabs. Look here:
(1) Russian trotter, such a horse, he is bred from an Arabian horse. (Stud farm breeding Orlov, stallion Sour cream, the name of the stallion, mean. Well, by the surname he, of course, is Orlov.)
(2) From this it follows very clearly that the Russians themselves are from Arabs. Yes, even if you look at Pushkin.

And you say Etruscans, cows ... Trotters!

In general, the results of genetic analyzes in history are no smarter than linguistic analysis

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: AK64

Russian trotter, such a horse, he was bred from an Arabian horse.

And precisely because it was bred and therefore is not considered an indigenous breed.

[avaks1]

http://www.km.ru/front-projects/russkii-yazyk-velikoe-dostoyanie-vsego-chelovech
estva / etruski-eto-russkie-perudzha-et

[kalibr]

This is not the source! Remember for the future! This is for ... those about whom A.S. Pushkin wrote in the tragedy "Boris Godunov".

[Glot]

This is not a source! Remember for the future!

Well, that's for normal people. And for those who dug "Black Sea pools", the most that neither is the source of sources. In the same place, it is written directly for them that they say "Etruscans / these are Russians" everything, they no longer need any proof. The curtain. It was also necessary to write to this Chudinov that the Mediterranean Sea, and at the same time the Aegean was dug by the Russians.

[Villon]

Quote: kalibr

This is not a source! Remember for the future!

Why not a source? Of course, if you divide all sources into correct ones that can be used, and wrong ones that cannot be used, but you cannot use this source, then for you it certainly cannot be a source, however, this is no reason to forbid it to others. It has a lot of useful things. In particular, links to the etymological Ztrusco-Russian dictionary compiled by the linguist Alexander Dragunkin.

Quote: Glot

Well, that's for normal people. And for those who dug "Black Sea pools", the most that neither is the source of sources. In the same place, it is written directly for them that they say "Etruscans / these are Russians" everything, they no longer need any proof. The curtain.

Kalibr divides all sources into right and wrong, and you seem to divide people into right and wrong. Where did you find that it says "Etruscans / these are Russians"? The closest approximation to what you quoted is "the relationship between the Russians and the Etruscans seems to be undeniable." Of course, this may seem the same to your imagination, but you still need to strive for accuracy.

[Glot]

and you seem to divide people into right and wrong. Where did you find that it says "Etruscans / these are Russians"? The closest approximation to what you quoted is "the relationship between the Russians and the Etruscans seems to be undeniable." Of course, this may seem the same to your imagination, but you still need to strive for accuracy.

No no, it's not that simple. There are quite a few divisions, who is who. it's complicated.
And with regards to "Eruscans - at the Russians", it’s not me, then Chudinov (I’d replace the letter H with M, just the topic would be ), writes by reference. Follow it, you must strive for accuracy.

[Villon]

The question is not as simple as it seems. I agree. I am glad that at least we have come to an agreement on this. You urge me to follow the link and make sure that it is so written there by Chudinov himself that the Etruscans are Russians. Here is what the author literally wrote in the article:

"A number of scientists who have been researching this problem for a long time, suggest not rushing to conclusions and, for a start, pay attention to the word" Etruscans "itself. Are they not" Et-Russian "/" Et-Russian "? into such an accident, especially taking into account the other above "coincidence": the Etruscans themselves, we repeat, called themselves "Rasenna", "Rasna". The consonance with the terms "Rusyns", "Rossi", "Russia" is too noticeable to be ignored. "

In my opinion, an accurate and correct statement. Indeed, such coincidences are rarely ignored by scientists. Well, I do not see in the author of the article a person who "dug the Black Sea pools" using your expression. And in general, a strange situation turns out when the author also needs to prove that he is normal, and the accuser of abnormality does not need to prove anything. This doesn't sound like scientific ethics.

[Glot]

In my opinion, an accurate and correct statement. Indeed, such coincidences are rarely ignored by scientists. Well, I do not see in the author of the article a person who "dug the Black Sea pools" using your expression. And in general, a strange situation turns out when the author also needs to prove that he is normal, and the accuser of abnormality does not need to prove anything. This doesn't sound like scientific ethics.

Okay. I sense in our conversation it is necessary to "separate the flies from the cutlets." So.
Probably the first. Scientists, I mean real scholarly historians, do not identify the Etruscans with the Russians. Never. Therefore, in principle, they do not pay attention to "such a coincidence". If only because it is in our spelling and pronunciation this seems so similar to some. And on the Apennines, some 2000 years ago, let's say, or more, you will hardly find an inscription like "Etruscan" or "Etruscan". Exactly as in Russia for years ... but at least 500-600 years ago, the word "Russians" was written and pronounced quite differently from how I just wrote it.
And you don’t even have to argue with that.
On the second, to the author.
I am a little familiar with his theories. This he identifies the Russians and the Etruscans, and with a pitchfork on the water, as they say. I also remember one of his opuses when he assured me that he reads words and names in Russian on the Roman coins, in the hair on the images of emperors (that is, in coins of the imperial period). But the trouble is, except for him no one sees it there. Even under the microscope.
Draw conclusions. I think that everything is either not very good there, or charlatan like FomEnko for bread with butter and caviar.

[Villon]

Quote: Glot

Probably the first. Scientists, I mean real scholars of historians, do not identify the Etruscans with the Russians. Never.

What does it mean to identify the Etruscans with the Russians? Identifying can mean everything and nothing at the same time. The question is not about the identification of the Etruscans, but about the origin of the Etruscans.

Quote: Glot

Therefore, in principle, they do not pay attention to "such a coincidence".

How can you ignore this? You can ignore it. Many “true learned historians” do so.

Quote: Glot

it is in our spelling and pronunciation this seems so similar to some. And on the Apennines, some 2000 years ago, let's say, or more, you are unlikely to find an inscription like "Etruscan" or "Etruscan". Exactly as in Russia for years ... but at least 500-600 years ago, the word "Russians" was written and pronounced quite differently from how I just wrote it.

I agree. The name “Etruscans” was spelled and pronounced differently. As well as the name "Russians", it was written and pronounced differently. So we have two time series: the first series - the names of the "Etruscans" in different times; the second row - the names of "Russians". These two rows must be compared. And this is the business of scientists. The author of the article is well aware of this and gives not one name for the Russians, but three, and not one name for the Etruscans, but also three. ("The Etruscans themselves called themselves" Rasenna "," Rasna ". Consonance with the terms" Rusyns "," Rossi "). But this is only a demonstration of the method, nothing more. Comparison of these series requires more serious work.

Quote: Glot

And you don’t even have to argue with that.

I agree. And nobody even argues with this.

Quote: Glot

I am a little familiar with his (Chudinov's) theories. This he identifies Russians and Etruscans.

He does not identify them. To identify is extremely vague. It can mean everything and nothing. And Chudinov does not even use such a word.

Quote: Glot

I also remember one of his opuses when he assured me that he reads words and names in Russian on the Roman coins, in the hair on the images of emperors (that is, in coins of the imperial period).

It sounds strange, but there is a lot of strange things in the world. Unfortunately, I can’t say anything else, because I don’t have this work in front of me.

Quote: Glot

But the trouble, except for him, no one sees it there

This is normal. This is the natural path of science. First, the scientist sees what no one sees, and then everyone starts to see it.

Quote: Glot

I think that either everything is not very good there.

What do you mean?

Quote: Glot

or quack as Fomenko for bread with butter and caviar

What are you saying? Quacking means cheating. Both Chudinov and Fomenko work in accordance with their convictions. In addition, Fomenko is a full-time academician and scientist.

[avaks1]

In my opinion, clearly a custom article!

[kalibr]

Oh, what ... God forgive me!

[V.ic]

Quote: avaks1

In my opinion, clearly a custom article!

Right! The descendants of Numa Pompilia ordered!

[Bashibuzuk]

Yes, the cow genetic material is impressive!
And he imagined how the ancient turusha, in search of racially pure cows, drove their cows from Lydia herself.
On ancient rowing boats.
...
Moreover, the Etruscans themselves fucked with no one getting assimilated, then.
And korovushek - no, no ... God forbid.
...
All this cranberries, about cows and their genetics - and even on our collective farms, didn’t particularly try to take the best producers from everywhere, from all over the world.
They chose one ... and until he dies of exhaustion.
Where is the crosshairs taken.
...
First disappointed.
Not material, no.
Aggressiveness.
To someone else's opinion.
Annoyingly.
..
..
I don’t remember something, so that sometime here, someone claimed that the Etruscans are our ancestors, the ancestors of the Russians.
The conversation was that they are of Slavic root and are close to the Slavs.
Other memory does not come, somehow.
And these, after all, are two big differences, no?

[Villon]

Quote: Bashibuzuk

First disappointed.
Not material, no.
Aggressiveness.
To someone else's opinion.
Annoyingly.

Most often, such aggressiveness is an indication that the researcher has an initial, biased attitude, but there is no data to rely on.

[kalibr]

Have you read the article? Have a question for geneticists? Write to the university, they will only be happy and will write everything in detail to you. In the era of the USSR, a number of monographs on this topic were published. There are a dozen museums in Italy. What other data do you need?

[Kombrig]

Thanks for the article, I always read with pleasure, but now I agree with the opinion of Bashibuzuk ...
For some reason, in the article, genetic studies are given as the last resort, but I think that this is not so, I'll try to justify:
-When conducting a comparative analysis, you need to have a clean sample (marker) in Our case, a sample of Etruscan DNA and DNA of a representative of a Lydian resident of prehistoric times. The population of the planet, since the first Great Migration, "mixes" at a tremendous speed, and the more the world develops, the faster this speed becomes, it is just that such studies could have been relevant five hundred years ago, and now genetic research can be used only as indirect evidence of its own theories, but not as basic ...
- Now, regarding the unfortunate cows, it’s only in my memory, and this is 41 years old, in our Belgorod Region, the number of cattle has changed at least twice ... No one has canceled the loss of cattle, let alone the number of cattle for two thousand years back when even the number of cattle was scanty (compared to our time).
Regards, Hi Penza.

[kalibr]

Dear Victor! I cannot answer your questions and resolve your doubts more convincingly than it is given in the article. It's just that I'm a little familiar with academic science (since 1982, to be exact) and know how it is done here and there. Therefore, the only thing I can offer, and I have already suggested it above: write them to this university yourself. Finding on the Internet is easy. Google will help translate into Italian, let alone English. I don’t say, they own it there. Write, ask, I'm sure they will answer you and it will be interesting for you and everyone else. Explain your doubts to them, "there" they take it very seriously.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Thank you very much! Articles are interesting, and comments to them just make a "sub-table".

[Kombrig]

I do not in any way detract from the quality of the research, as well as their methodology, I only say that the results of these studies can only be used as confirmation of a theory only indirectly, but not the other way around ....
About twenty years ago, one scientist published an article where, having made a copy of a stone ax, he easily cut down a pine 20 cm in diameter, the whole point of this article was that we greatly underestimate the effectiveness of stone tools, and that a primitive person lived quite comfortably .. My companion and I were not too lazy and repeated this experiment - indeed, we were also able to cut a pine trunk in 15-20 minutes ... but, a fellow scientist did not say that it takes a lot of time to find suitable silicon, and that after manipulations with a pine ax it fell into disrepair, that is, there was only one experiment, and we made different conclusions ... Regards ..

[kalibr]

See how useful it is to refer to the primary sources and the basics. It's great that you tried it!

[ALLxANDr]

Despite the fact that I missed all the fun))) February 2 .. it is necessary .. but I was bored at this time))))) So, in spite of all the missed fun - you yourself asked questions to the source? A lot of questions and assumptions were voiced here, at least something was sent to the source to clarify the truth? I don’t attack, I just want to clarify this nuance.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

The peculiarity of our country is that in general, everything is not very well maintained in our country. Try to find buildings older than 300 years in the Belgorod region. And in Italy it’s easy.
About the cattle. Under Khrushchev, a policy was pursued that made livestock maintenance disadvantageous and almost all livestock became public. After that, they operated on him as desired. In Italy, this was not. In 1942, all cattle from the Belgorod region was most likely stolen, and even earlier, during collectivization and starvation, the livestock could have been significantly affected. Or do you have reason to believe that Italy had something similar?

[Kombrig]

Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin

About the cattle. Under Khrushchev, a policy was pursued that made livestock maintenance disadvantageous and almost all livestock became public. After that, they operated on him as desired. In Italy, this was not. In 1942, all cattle from the Belgorod region was most likely stolen, and even earlier, during collectivization and starvation, the livestock could have been significantly affected. Or do you have reason to believe that Italy had something similar?

I talked about the banal destruction of cattle in epidemics in order to localize them ... I think that in Italy it was the same, because no one has canceled the cattle case ....

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Nowadays, during epidemics, they destroy all cattle within a given settlement. And in the Belgorod region they immediately urinate the whole animal in the region? I heard somewhere. Belgorod is the best city in the Russian Federation, but did not think so!

[Kombrig]

Quote: Uncle VasyaSayapin

Nowadays, during epidemics, they destroy all cattle within a given settlement. And in the Belgorod region they immediately urinate the whole animal in the region? I heard somewhere. Belgorod is the best city in the Russian Federation, but did not think so!

That's right, but cumulatively, after several major epidemics, the overwhelming mass of livestock was brought from other regions, so as not to risk it .... And our city is really one of the most beautiful and comfortable cities in Russia, though there are almost no old buildings left, in the Great Patriotic War, the "partners" tried ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Bashibuzuk

And these, after all, are two big differences, no?

No! And it was precisely this that was argued - that the Etruscans are Russians (Slavs). That's it, in black letters! And aggressiveness ... you wrote that you are an officer. Where will you send (aggressively) a person who, being a junior scooper of a sewage wagon (in relation to you, your experience, knowledge, rank), will come and tell you that you need to do this and that, and what he read about it ... "The book of future commanders" ?!

[Bashibuzuk]

Well, in life he wouldn’t come close to me like that.
On the forum it is quite probable But there are two options - or "in the snout", oh, to ignore, ie. or so that there was nothing to cover.
...
So far .... cows are not good at ace trump.
..
I note that no one writes to me in a personal, and I, accordingly, and God forbid me to teach someone.
Convinced that "to teach a scientist, only to spoil."
Only coercion will help.
...
...
And also, and yet ... once again I am convinced of the correctness of Schopenhauer about the recognition of truth.
Only whether it is good or not, regarding TI and HX.
Let's see ... even twenty years ago, the teachings of Marx were omnipotent, because it is true.
It turned out - genetics is not the same. The main cows ... turned out to be the wrong breed.

[kalibr]

You see! But you reproach me with aggressiveness ... As for the teachings of Marx, he and 20 were criticized very seriously years ago, but not here, of course. So it was never omnipotent and omnipotent. A special case, one of the scientific theories that has become our dogma. Well, you yourself know what this led to. The house built on the sand did not resist!

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Bashibuzuk

And he imagined how the ancient turusha, in search of racially pure cows, drove their cows from Lydia herself.

Well, yes, in those days it was a business, I sold it in Asia Minor, then I bought it right there in Italy, it was even possible by bank transfer, and in general it was 3 hours on the "oars", on the way if there was always "snickers"!

Quote: Bashibuzuk

Aggressiveness.
To someone else's opinion.

We are discussing "scientific issues" here, not sharing opinions

[Villon]

Quote: Mr PIP

[

Quote: Bashibuzuk

Aggressiveness.
To someone else's opinion.

We are discussing "scientific issues" here, not sharing opinions

So that is precisely the task to separate what is from opinion.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Villon

So that’s the problem

These are the tasks that professional historians solve, they should be read, and if there is a desire to "argue" - then only with reference to generally recognized authorities - but how else ?!

[guzik007]

The conversation was that they are of Slavic root and are close to the Slavs.
------------------------------------------------------------
Well, by and large, we all belong to the Indo-European group in the end, and what is the reason to be proud of our origin? At least stupid.
We listen to Zadornov and are overflowing with reverent nonsense. Soon, they will ascribe Russian pyramids to the pyramids, pseudo-patriots, bl ...

[Glot]

Soon, Russian pyramids will be attributed, pseudo-patriots, bl ...

You are not up to date. Already attributed.
"The great and terrible" Fomenko wrote in one of his opuses that the pyramids in Egypt were built by Russian "princes-atamans" (literally) and that these are "their ancestral tombs."

[kalibr]

Do you not know? Already attributed!

[Nikolay71]

Quote: Nexus 6

Auto RU. Thank you for the article. As for the "connoisseurs" of history, they cannot be convinced by scientific methods! For such people, it is more a matter of "faith". To change their opinion, on a number of questions, maybe only even more branchy cranberries.

"Connoisseurs" are such connoisseurs.

[Villon]

The article has a lot of good things, like photography. But attention is drawn to the striking discrepancy between the title of the article and its content. The article is called "Etruscans against ... Russians!", But there is simply nothing about Russians in the article. Even the word "Russians" is used only once: in the title.

[Glot]

The article is called "Etruscans against ... Russians!", But there is simply nothing about Russians in the article. Even the word "Russians" is used only once: in the title.

Maybe this is because the Russians have no relation to the Etruscans?

[Villon]

Quote: Glot

The article is called "Etruscans against ... Russians!", But there is simply nothing about Russians in the article. Even the word "Russians" is used only once: in the title.

Maybe this is because the Russians have no relation to the Etruscans?

In the mind of the author of the article, the Etruscans have a strong relationship with the Russians, so strong that he directed even the very fact of their existence against the Russians. But I forgot to mention the Russians in the article. So all the terrible blow of the "Etruscans", as the author understands them, fell into the void and the article turned out to be about nothing.

[baudolino]

About genetics. Was the flow of migration to Rome from the eastern provinces taken into account during the Empire? After all, it was then that the "darkness" of the Italians was laid, diluted in the north by the medieval Germans.

[AK64]

Q-in: modern Italian in general ... Syrian 70%

[owl]

Quote: Nikolai K

So Russians and Etruscans can really connect a lot, and not just a consonant name.

Quote: V.ic

Explain to me, siroma, the similarities in the name of the pearl of Italy - Venice and the name of the tribe of Wends / Venets / Wends /

Wow. This is a feeling of discovery! We will see.
Helmets have helmets on their helmets. On the caps - Hawaiians too. They are visually similar. I think that the linguistic chain is logical. Greece - rowing - crest - Hawaiians. Hawaiians sailed from Greece, or vice versa.
From such garbage - the brain boils. People change your mind. Etruscans are the ancestors of the Russians. Rave. You are adults, include criticism.

[Mr. Pip]

Thanks a lot to Vyacheslav for the article
I read it with great pleasure.
Comments of our favorite members of the forum too

[kalibr]

Some comments generally shine!

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: kalibr

Some comments generally shine!

Sorry, but I can not help but share new knowledge in domestic science!
It turns out that the whole story is divided into BEFORE a nuclear war in the 18th century and after!
The argument is the "uniform architectural" style of all buildings before the 18th century - from Ancient Rome to St. Petersburg!
And what follows from this? It is correct that there was a single civilization - and a highly developed one, because it is obvious that the "ancient" people of the 18th century simply physically could not build the same Petersburg!
Well, the fact that Rome is in ruins, and St. Petersburg is whole, is explained only by nuclear war, but how else to explain the ruins of entire megacities?
Well, the fact that there was one civilization (Russian unconditionally) testifies to the Civil War.
Well, judging by the fact that after the 18th century ALL HISTORY was rewritten, the rebels most likely won (then any rich person had nuclear weapons for self-defense apparently).
And in general, there are videos on YouTube and blogs on LJ and subscribers and people EVERYTHING EXPLAIN AND EXPLAIN EVERYTHING!
Here, by the way, the main proof is Kungurov.

[Nexus 6]

A link to this "dream of reason" please throw it! I came across it a long time ago, looked through it, but forgot where ... A professional interest arose (I'm not a psychiatrist, if anything)). A uniform architectural style is a glance hunt. Although I'm afraid - the removal of the brain))

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Nexus 6

A link to this "dream of reason" please throw it!

For example, there are a lot of beautiful photos and funny comments.
http://wakeuphuman.livejournal.com/921.html
Well, or you can search on Google for "Artifacts of St. Petersburg" - there will be a lot of interesting things

[Nexus 6]

Thanks! "Delivered" That pulled up by the way, they ask to explain to them

[Volzhanin]

My dear one, please explain the origin of the objects presented in the first six photographs:
http://забытаяреальность.рф/industrialno-razvitaya-civilizaciya-sushhestvuet-na-
zemle-desyatki-tysyach-let /
If you clearly and clearly explain who made how and when, I take off my hat and sign my ignorance.

[kalibr]

I watched. Actually, in England there is a good saying: Someone else's time is someone else's money! That Mr. that you slipped to me you ate me at the same time. About how the Alexandrian convoy did EVERYTHING is, documents, statements, EVERYTHING. And as for the rest, I’ll say this: a sick person invented it all. As for the oaks especially. I have here in Penza, in a park, several oaks have been standing since its foundation, next to Tarkhany is a memorial oak of Lermontov and others like him. A bunch of oaks and other places! Everything!

[kalibr]

Y-yes! You "enlightened" me. Well ... these are the consequences of what? If a young man is addicted to this, then ... perestroika, the Unified State Exam ... And if at an age? The disadvantages of the best Soviet school in the world? Or how? Or is it a genetic love for overthrowing everything and everything - "the whole world ... to the ground, and then ..." And most importantly, they easily catch a fish from a pond. He mastered a couple of books, but everything ... is already broadcasting revelations. I ask one thing here: who are you by education, specialty? Silent, like a partisan before the Gestapo. But how to subvert - a mouth that an elephant has a tail. And, most importantly, answering them is more expensive for yourself. But you will not answer ... ah-ah, there is nothing to say, all lies! Oh, it's not for nothing that Shukshin wrote the story "Cut". It is necessary for the school curriculum!

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: kalibr

Well ... these are the consequences of what?

Well, these are the consequences of the fact that the main "reposters" of such articles and research are Nazi and fascist resources, and the main supporters of these ideas are supporters of racist ideas.
This is Hitler, having destroyed Germany, confirmed - that any culture in isolation degrades and dies - here is the same - if anyone believes in the "racial superiority of the Aryans" they immediately begin to doubt that, for example, the pyramids in Egypt could have been built by some negroes - Well, the soul rushed to heaven
PS Below, Sveles himself writes - "Etruscan-white people brought culture to black Latins" and Venya always agrees with him, or maybe it's even the same person

[Sweles]

Quote: Mr. PIP

PS Below, Sveles himself writes - "Etruscan-white people brought culture to black Latins" and Venya always agrees with him, or maybe it's even the same person

there are two of us and everyone is funny

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Sveles

there are two of us and everyone is funny

Well, yes, those who read you are really funny

[Glot]

Well, yes, those who read you are really funny

[Oprichnik]

When they want to turn something upside down, they change the time and place of action. By rewriting, distortion, non-agreement and just lies. And so from century to century. And we have a "paradigm". It’s like a corral for cattle, you step over the fence: they will either be whipped or devoured. And these scribes have already dashed off so much that the sheer volume of works does not even allow doubting the incorrectness of what was written. "Our" historians do not like Russians! Probably because they are not Russians themselves.
Take away the history of the people and there is no people ... Do not shut up with such labor-articles the gaps, pull your boats.

[kalibr]

There are Russians who are smart, but there are stupid ... Who likes pop, some poppies, some popov’s daughter.

[cth; fyn]

A good article, many facts and studies are given as an example. I don’t understand at all where people took that Etruscan is Russian, only because of the name if.

[Reptiloid]

Dear Vyacheslav, you wrote that --- since the Etruscans are from Asia Minor, they are not Slavs and not relatives of the Slavs. And who then ruled in Asia Minor? Hittites! People with Aryan appearance and in their language have so many parallels with In Russian!
At the same time, the outfit of the warriors, the cult of the dead, and the traditions of the Etruscans and Hittites were very different from the Russians. Did you remember the Cybele cult of the Hittites ?! religion and traditions were in the People who before the Etruscans inhabited Tirrenida --- the sunken land on the site of the Tyrrhenian Sea, who died along with Crete and the Middle Kingdom in Egypt?
Another thought. Ambrogio Donini in his book "At the Origins of Christianity" writes about the Syrian Diaspora in Italy 2 thousand years ago. And Lev Gumilyov writes that the Romans at that time preferred spectacles, drunkenness, opium, homosexuality and heterosexuals --- family life and useful activity. Aesthetes! Sybarites! Did the migrant workers from Syria multiply and peasants? They are the ancestors of today's Italians?
And also about the Romans: they added lead salt to the wine! And lead water! And lead poisoning, as you know, lowers male function.
Thanks for the article, otherwise I got distracted ...

[kalibr]

Dear Dmitry! Ahead of an article about Rome and about lead ...

[AK64]

Question to the author.

So, the Etruscans are one of the peoples of the sea. Pts is good.
Who are our other famous sea peoples? Well, let's leave aside the Achaeans (those very Greeks, whom the "Etruscans are not like") - that the Achaeans are one of the peoples of the sea is not quite a fact. Take the well-established sea people: the Philistines. And there we will see both genes and ceramics. (It is difficult with genes - there are a lot of lies. But any reasonable person can cope with ceramics here.)
And laugh.
(because Philistine ceramics are not like Etruscan ceramics. But the armament seems to be, yes.)

Someone will say (about ceramics) "influence". Well, no: the pottery of the Philistines is sharply different from their entire environment.

In Sardia, again, you can dig: there lived, were, for some time at least, another proven people of the sea - Shardana. (Very little is known about these, however - they did not have such successful enemies as the Jews or the Romans, who left so much written.)

In general, if someone did not understand: the fact that the Etruscans are "people of the sea" is very doubtful. And even then to say - the peoples of the sea were just probably the "Indo-Europeans" (easier - the Aryans)

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: AK64

And even then to say - the peoples of the sea were just probably the "Indo-Europeans" (easier - the Aryans)

Of course, I am far from an expert in the "peoples of the sea", but it seems to me that you will excuse me, but to use the term "Aryans" in the modern world, especially in the scientific one, is somehow indecent.
The reason is banal - "pure-blooded Aryans died out" at the same time when they appeared - there are no Indo-Europeans as a single people or even as a group of related peoples, there are peoples-carriers of Indo-European languages.
Well, there were not enough "Aryans" physically to assimilate the peoples they meet, IMHO

[Sweles]

Quote: Mr. PIP

Of course, I am far from an expert in the "peoples of the sea", but it seems to me that you will excuse me, but to use the term "Aryans" in the modern world, especially in the scientific one, is somehow indecent.

who you are clearly a specialist in demagogy,
and as for you or some other Jews who do not like the Aryans, you can stand in a corner and cry there because the Aryans were and Indian sources speak about this - they were tall white people who brought the whole culture to India, as though Etruscan-white but people brought culture to black Latins, and these are facts ...

[AK64]

Of course, I am far from an expert in the "peoples of the sea", but it seems to me that you will excuse me, but to use the term "Aryans" in the modern world, especially in the scientific one, is somehow indecent.

And if you see a swastika, on embroideries there or on old carvings ...
Around the bastards, yes.

So the bashful term "Indo-Europeans" is just scientifically incorrect: "Indo-Europeans" is nothing more than a linguistic group. And ethnically those ancient peoples ... but at least what you call them.

By the way, this very term, the Aryans, is used by the most probably great specialist in Philistines, a professor at Tel Avi University

The reason is banal - "pure-blooded Aryans died out" at the same time when they appeared - there are no Indo-Europeans as a single people or even as a group of related peoples, there are peoples-carriers of Indo-European languages.
Well, there were not enough "Aryans" physically to assimilate the peoples they meet, IMHO

Ja-ja, natural!
The Syrians did not have enough
Slovenes did not have enough
The Germans did not have enough
Turks did not have enough

And so on.

However, in one you are right: there is hardly anything left of the peoples of the sea (with a loud memory cover, of course): they are gone somewhere. But so many pots were filled in the process ...

The same can be said for example about the Turk (those who are real): what is left of them? One and a half cripples near Lake Teletskoye? And fame is still alive ...

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: AK64

Ja-ja, natural!

It's sarcasm? If sarcasm, I explain the logic.
1. "Aryans" are they R1a? Well, this is a haplogroup. Now further.
2. It is possible to trace the relationship "by dad" by it, and then what?
3. And then the frequency of distribution tells us that the frequency of its distribution is such that among many modern "Aryans" it is not even dominant, that is, for some it certainly dominates the rest, but in total numbers it is often less than 50%.
4. Now also, "the haplogroup is not genetics" - Pushkin had R1a, but he was a quarter black and if he married a black woman, from the point of view of genetics, his descendants would be real blacks themselves, but with R1a - by the way in Africa has natural blacks with R1a.
5. Again, the genotype of all modern peoples is heterogeneous, this is banal mathematics - even if successful R1a left offspring in foreign nations (then there was no monogamy), then the purely mathematically younger and smaller genotype could not displace the older and larger one. In any case, completely displace.
6. Accordingly, the issue of heterogeneity of genotypes is not a process of today, mixing occurred almost from the very beginning.
7. Accordingly, the MAIN QUESTION, you write that "the peoples of the sea are Aryans", and how to prove it ?!
Even if they are R1a, can this really be sufficient proof that from the point of view of genetics or cultural continuity they are "Aryans"? It doesn't matter, "pure-blooded Aryans" migrated at least a couple of thousand years before the events from the article, after all.
And then you write about the Germans and Slavs, but some "Slavs" (including Russians) are indistinguishable from the Turks, and some are Muslims - and some are also "Slavs" and R1a

Quote: AK64

And if you see a swastika, on embroideries there or on old carvings

On an old thread you can.
It is a no-brainer here that all the "new carving and embroidery" is not an "Old Slavic Kolovrat" but the most real restoration and rehabilitation of Nazism.
And you can watch the old

[AK64]

1. "Aryans" are they R1a? Well, this is a haplogroup. Now further.

Aryans are an ethnic group. Or a group of related ethnic groups. And if P or P is there, I don’t know this, I didn’t hold them by the remote control for the simple reason that this group of ethnic groups existed 3-4 thousand years ago.

So your further "arguments", sorry, are not interesting to me.

But here the leader specialized in the Philistines, an Israelite and a professor, directly calls the Philistines and "people of the sea" Aryans. That is, he SUGGESES that these are the Aryans, such a hypothesis. But at the same time the term uses this one, without asking your opinion. And the term doesn't scare him. Well, why are you so flinching? Is the Horse Wessel buzzing in your ears?

About "halo groups" and other things ... Having some ideas how and by whom these analyzes are done, but they .... I do not trust a little.
If it’s not entirely clear, I’ll explain: archaeologists, including Israeli archaeologists, literally cried when in the same Ascalon at archaeological sites (sites, not websites, but you don’t understand this either), construction sites were carried out and crumbled everything there and poured concrete on top. We almost cried: "You would give us a drip there first, even for a year or two! Why didn't you tell us what to build up?" ... But figs them: everything with a bulldozer and concrete on top. Because the story is not needed anyhow, but only ... correct (as the great Lenin bequeathed)

So all these halo groups of yours, in which, I am sure, you personally understand no more than the Papuans in ballet, can you shove yourself ...

[Mr. Pip]

You do not get nervous again.

Quote: AK64

Aryans are an ethnic group.

Aryans (they are Aryans or Indo-Iranians if more correct) is the name of PEOPLES speaking the languages ​​of the Indo-Iranian group of the Indo-European family.
Calling these peoples by the term "ethnic group" is the same as, for example, calling Spanish-speaking US citizens (41 million) or Argentine citizens (41 million) Spanish (41 million people in Spain itself) or one ethnic group.
Farther.

Quote: AK64

And even then to say - the peoples of the sea were just probably the "Indo-Europeans" (easier - the Aryans)

The "Aryans" (as we understood not those from whom Hitler led his lineage) were Indo-Iranians. None of the European peoples trace their history from the Indo-Iranians!

Quote: AK64

But the term at the same time uses this one without asking your opinion.

It's not my opinion, the fact is that he writes specialized literature about very specific Indo-Iranian peoples, and you mention the term "Aryans" on the general forum - which everyone associates with the "progenitors of the white man" - this leads to confusion, because Indo-Iranians are not our ancestors - this is a parallel branch to us.

Quote: AK64

So all these halo bands of yours

Well, if you read about them, it would be useful, but in the 21st century you should definitely know at least something about it.
But you can look at the picture of the PROPOSED distribution of Indo-European languages, each "arrow" today means not only a different group of one family, but also including representatives of different types and even no one race.

[AK64]

Aryans (they are Aryans or Indo-Iranians if more correct) is the name of PEOPLES speaking the languages ​​of the Indo-Iranian group of the Indo-European family.
Calling these peoples by the term "ethnic group" is the same as, for example, calling Spanish-speaking US citizens (41 million) or Argentine citizens (41 million) Spanish (41 million people in Spain itself) or one ethnic group.

What a ...
Correctly the comrades warned: a demagogue, and from inexpensive

\ and, shaking his head, brought in an emergency \

[Taras_77.]

kalibr RU Today, 08: 39 ↑
"Tascana was not invaded by the Turks. I don't know about the genetic material. But I know that any serious statement coming out of the walls of the university must meet the requirement of verifiability." Dear, you belong to the type of people who have only white and black colors, why are you so sure that the Turks were not there, just on the basis that you have not heard about it? You have such a strong faith in science, and this despite the fact that every year the scientists of England make "discoveries" from which they disown the next year, no, I do not want to say that, in turn, I approach science one-sidedly, not taking the merit of scientists and yet I am sure you will not deny that scientists are people too and can be wrong, not to mention personal interest and outright order. Why am I, this is your "Here, as they say - everything, there is nothing further to argue about", at least touches, here you write that you have been familiar with academic science since 82, this is wonderful and I am not making jokes, but you will agree , it is necessary to take into account other sources, as I already wrote, science has been wrong many times.

[Nikita Orlov]

The article is scientific and straightforward, but what have the Proto-Slavs to do with it? Didn't we have ancestors in the ancient world, but only the Romans and Egyptians? The ancient Ukrainians, as a phenomenon, appeared precisely on the basis of denial of obvious conclusions - the ancient Slavs were as developed as the Romans or Babylonians, tk. the globalization framework with borders, border guards and passports was in its infancy, therefore, the exchange of state technologies as a mininm was established, that is, the urban environment and crafts were also with us. It is naive to appeal to science and scientific norms to deny its ancient history. We must study our roots, soberly, without exaggeration, either in the direction of "this cannot be" or in the direction of "dug up the sea", and as long as there is no way of being there, these are the hippos, and Ukrainians with ancient believers and Orthodox thinkers will be.
Do not go to extremes, gentlemen, in an attempt to expose yourself in front of the "civilized world", he will not appreciate it.

[venaya]

Quote: Nikita Orlov

Do not go to extremes, gentlemen, in an attempt to expose yourself in front of the "civilized world", he will not appreciate it.

The problem is that this entire "civilized world" was civilized by someone, that is, he was a civilizer. So, according to the "Europeans", the Latins, on the basis of which the present civilization is based, were civilized - Etruscan. Even the Latin script used today by the "Europeans" was created by the Etruscans on the basis of one of their forms of writing, mainly the one that we now use.

[Glot]

The problem is that this entire "civilized world" was civilized by someone, that is, he was a civilizer. So, according to the "Europeans", the Latins, on the basis of which the present civilization is based, were civilized - Etruscan. Even the Latin script used today by the "Europeans" was created by the Etruscans on the basis of one of their forms of writing, mainly the one that we now use.

Like BE ... hmm ... Europe considers the cradle of its civilization, for a minute, the Greeks, that is, the Hellenes.

[AK64]

Europe believes

Europe in the know?
Did you tell them?

[Glot]

Europe in the know?
Did you tell them?

No, they are aware without me. Already a long time ago.
And not only them.
Since your information, Hellenistic civilization had a huge impact not only on Europe (Western, Eastern), but also on Asia, part of Africa. Many achievements of science and culture of the Hellenes were inherited by Byzantium and the Arabs. This is the golden fund of universal human culture.
Such are the cases.

[AK64]

No, they are aware without me. Already a long time ago.

Truth? May I ask: where do you personally live?
I ask this to what: here, for example, I live in Europe, it just so happened. But it turns out you know the secret thoughts of Europeans, living ... where?

And not only them.

Well, of course - you are also! I remember the immortal "cardinal and haberdasher will save France!"

Since your information, Hellenistic civilization had a huge impact not only on Europe (Western, Eastern), but also on Asia, part of Africa.

Pretty funny ...
Especially this "Hellenistic" and "civilization" ...
It's crazy to go crazy.
The Romans treated these Yllins in much the same way as modern Russians / not Europe: that is, it is not good. And for about the same reasons. They considered Tolerasts of the Yllins, in the worst sense of the word.
For example, the translation of the Odyssey has survived, where this Odysseus was bred ... not generally well, it was bred there.

Yes, and these ylinists themselves: in comparison even with the same Persians, these are wild people, goats-s. They are sheep in the stables ...

In general, listen to advice: stop retelling the history textbook in a decent society: I believe that you have passed it well, I believe.

Many achievements of science and culture of the Hellenes were inherited by Byzantium and the Arabs. This is the golden fund of universal human culture.

Rzhu nimagu ...
Tell us about the "achievements of science" of the Hellenes?
Even the Pythagorean theorem was known a little before him. Pythagoras, in fact, was not a geometer; he was a philosopher. But this theorem is so ... an illustration of his speculation about the harmony of the universe. In the version 3: 4: 5 it was already used by the Egyptians - they built corners in this way.

But in other matters, why do I offend the child: he passed the story by five ... So you are right, My young Sir, you are absolutely right - they are the root of the Hellenisms. Yes Yes.

[Glot]

But in other matters, why do I offend the child: he passed the story by five ...

I think you did not study it at all.
Since I wrote elementary things that are known to everyone and which are approved by the European scientists. I will not name our Russian historians, scientists, read at least Shamyu, Toynbee ... this is enough to start. And then for you I see and the term "Hellenistic civilization" is not familiar. Why get into a topic in which like a pig in oranges you understand? Look silly, for those who understand what it is about. Although some people like to look foolish. But it is theirs, and your right. Want to look like a fool - you did it.
Yes, I handed in history for a long time. Even in that Country which no longer exists. And I passed it not in the best way. But judging by the comments, I see that then my "not very" now - the highest score is often. It's sad, sad from how many stupid people have bred in Russia ... Well, thank God, you are a European muddle. If you're not lying. So these are your European problems.
Okay, to whom am I trying to explain something? Only wasting time.

[AK64]

I think you did not study it at all. laughing
Since I wrote basic things that are known to everyone and which are approved by European scientists.

No need to lie. You haven’t even been a tourist in that Europe, have you? After all, I guessed right?

Hellenisms became fashionable in Europe only at the beginning of the 19th century, at the suggestion of Byron. Bpyron was terribly popular, so he propagandized. And again, "the struggle for the freedom of the freedom-loving Hellenic people" began.
Well, thanks, of course, to Byron: in fact, from his submission, Britain and France opposed Turkey for the one and only time (that is, in Russia's favor).

But BEFORE that, there were no Hellenistic sympathies in Europe and could not have been. But the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" - that it just really existed, this is not a myth.

Well, yes, you will not be able to draw conclusions; so continue to whistle.

[venaya]

Quote: AK64

"The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" - that it just really existed, this is not a myth

You describe events so interestingly, can you be able to suggest - where did the very German nation come from, when did it appear here and where did it come from?

[AK64]

maybe you can tell - where did that very German nation come from, when did it appear here and where did it come from?

/ sighing /
Run boy play the sand

[Villon]

Quote: AK64

maybe you can tell - where did that very German nation come from, when did it appear here and where did it come from?

/ sighing /
Run boy play the sand

What a childishness. Do not know where the German nation came from, say so. And then they got themselves sacred cows.

[Volzhanin]

And it’s a no brainer that the Etruscans are not Russians, but only one of the branches of our common ancestors. Relatives, in short. At that time there was no self-designation "Russians" and only from this point of view the author was right.
Here it is available, thoroughly and convincingly:
http://peshera.org/khrono/khrono-19.html
The author accidentally put a plus sign, well, okay, in advance for the future.
Especially a pendant with a swastika-Kolovrat, well, nothing at all! It counts less than 3000 years, and in the territory of Russia, Persia and India, such countless gizmos have been found and are much older.
And the funny thing is that the facts cited by the author to "debunk" the "myths" unwittingly testify to just the opposite.
How do you like black women with a tattoo of the Slavic goddess Makoshi (Mokoshi)?
As for DNA, there are no special contradictions, but there is no time to consider this in detail. Who has the time - will go over the link and more ...

[Glot]

Especially a pendant with a swastika-Kolovrat, well, nothing at all! laughing She counts less than 3000 years, and on the territory of Russia, Persia and India such countless gizmos have been found and are much older.

Why is it a swastika - a Slavic symbol then? She comes across artifacts all over the world. So what ? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Symbols wander in time, sometimes in some peoples meaning one thing, and in others quite another.
A striking example is Germany in the first half of the 20th century. Is there that, with banners with a swastika, the Etruscans walked, or the Slavs, whom Hitler wanted to destroy all?
And yet, just as you say in our country on Russia gizmos with swastikas for more than 3000 years finding an uncountable number, then at least a couple of dozen of such findings light up here. References to the finds are possible. Who found, where, when, who dated and authenticated. And then there are a lot of loud words but, behind them are ignorance and emptiness ...

[Mwg]

Dear GLOT, do you believe that the earth is round? And who presented the evidence to you?

[Glot]

Dear GLOT, do you believe that the earth is round? And who presented the evidence to you?

Rather ellipsoidal my friend. And just then there is evidence. Or do you doubt it?

[Mwg]

I have no doubt, however, and I do not require evidence. It just seems to me that you can demand evidence of something in the case when you are personally accused of something. This is a common method of protection.
But when discussing a topic, it would probably be more correct to master the information on the topic of discussion, and not require proof. In the net there are photographs of museum exhibits, and even dated. Do not be lazy, type in the search engine the word "swastika" and master the knowledge on this topic for health. Well, if the desire is there. The Internet is a great force. I do not impose an opinion, this is my point of view))

[Glot]

I have no doubt, however, and I do not require evidence. It just seems to me that you can demand evidence of something in the case when you are personally accused of something. This is a common method of protection.

Thank God that you do not require me to prove that the Earth is round.
So, not everything is still lost.
For the rest, it seems so to you. Since if you say that the writing of the Etruscans and Russians is the same and we can read it freely now, then you would not have been considered an eccentric to put it mildly, you must present evidence.
But we will not blame them yet. This will be done later, and not by us.

[Mwg]

Wow, Freudian reservation! Note, I did not speak about the same writing of the Etruscans and Rus. You said that. Apparently, this topic is well known to you, as well as a polemic on it. Under such circumstances, how to understand the requirements for the provision of information known to you?
At the expense of "it seems". Anyone who says that the Etruscan inscriptions were read using the Old Slavic language has given enough weighty arguments for this statement. It is easiest to insult such a person like any other, however, there are NO compelling arguments to refute his version. NO if you like. Refute reasonably and I will consider that you are right. And the repetition of unsubstantiated statements (albeit long repeated) is not proof. As they say in the East: "How many do not repeat halva, halva, the mouth will not become sweeter")

[Glot]

Anyone who says that the Etruscan inscriptions were read using the Old Slavic language gave enough compelling arguments for this statement.

The fact of the matter is that no. I didn’t. A lot of words - a little sense.
That's the whole halva.

[Mwg]

Archeology is an indicator of the reliability of various kinds of historical theories. It is like a unity of theory and experience. History is archeology.
When the official story contradicts what is being dug, the official story is wrong. To hush up uncomfortable finds is like turning your back on a bear and saying "well, you can't be here." As a result, the carriers of the refuted theories begin to polemize on the topic of malicious intent from the outside or a misunderstanding of their high design. Or they gather together and destroy the carrier of the progressive theory. A striking example from classical history is Giordano Bruno. They burned him. This means that the earth is still round))))

[AK64]

A striking example from classical history is Giordano Bruno. Burned it. This is because the earth is still round

I don’t quite understand where Bruno is, but I’ll notice that they burned him not at all for that

Yes, and Bruno would not have considered language a scientist: he argued in public lectures until a wheeze, claiming that the moon revolves around the sun. Luna, Karl! And he referred to Copernicus.
They brought him the book of Copernicus and stuck it under his nose - only then Bruno calmed down.

Despicable was this type of Bruno ....
Spy, traitor, scammer ...
Ugly type

[ALLxANDr]

Unfortunately, I would really like it to be so ... but it is just the opposite, if the facts are against history, then all the worse for the facts! Once again, unfortunately.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: MVG

Do you believe that the earth is round? And who presented the evidence to you?

That is, is it flat ?! Or concave ?!

[ALLxANDr]

The first thing that comes to mind is Runnitsa. The second comes to mind - Santi and Kharati.
As for Germany - golden crosses to Hitler were offered by Stalin. These crosses were worn on chevrons in Russia, the same crosses were on banknotes ..

here is the link: http://ejeweek.ru/show_item.php?id=380

At all times they believed that these crosses have very strong energy. What Stalin also spoke of to Hitler when he presented these symbols as a gift, these symbols, like a talisman, do not tolerate betrayal. That is why they were proposed after fixing agreements on not attacking each other. It is the golden crosses, because color is also of great importance. Hitler accepted these signs, and later changed them to black in a white circle against a red background. The meaning of the cross has changed a lot (who knows the meaning of colors and symbols will confirm this), according to the content. Later, the Soviet government got rid of crosses, because associations of the people formed negative. The cross has become an enemy symbolism in all its manifestations.

[a housewife]

Is that a black woman ?! Look into their eyes! Even mulattos and quarters have brown eyes! not gray-green.

[Reptiloid]

Many thanks to you, Vyacheslav, for the information about the Etruscan Gods and Goddesses! I read various books on this topic, but I have not met THIS information anywhere! And I think that other forum users also did not meet this information, because. I asked about this several times.

Quote: Good cat

Almost every historical article has a photo of museum weapons, armor, etc., and almost every time it is either the United States or Britain. Significantly impudent all over the world!

Yes, they were very lucky. Giovanni Belzoni. Thompson, Napoleon and others grabbed a huge number of artifacts for museums in these countries, but then --- they were robbed, slandered, omitted below the baseboard, and their discoveries were appropriated by officials of these countries and more successful businessmen There are a lot of ancient artifacts in the Louvre (about Napoleon), but that’s a different topic. Napoleon in many ways left the artifacts of the Egyptians who didn’t save them. In general, after the French army, the robbery of graves in Egypt intensified.

[Jääkorppi]

How everyone suffered! Russians and those are different - a resident of Perm or the Leningrad region is different from a resident of Rostov on the Don or Belgorod region! Everyone, including in Europe, was mixed up long ago, although there the mentality and customs of individual regions are pronounced! And in the USSR they tried to create a single Soviet people. By the way, if you carefully read Russian classics of the 19th century, you will see that the Russians did not consider themselves Slavs. I repeat, Russians are a mixture of Finns and Slavs, Ukrainians are a mixture of Slavs and Turks. Culturally (according to everyday life, clothing and customs, food culture), Russians are Finns, and Ukrainians are Poles. And Russian Borsch never ate !!!

[Mwg]

One minute. Ukrainians are a mixture of Slavs, Turks (a little bit) and Ashkenazi Jews (to a large extent). And this is a historical fact. Remember the Khazar Khaganate. Culturally, Ukrainians are Poles only in the west and north-west of Ukraine, and even then by foci. The central, southeastern, eastern parts of Ukraine are culturally no different from the Rostov Region and Krasnodar Territory, and the dialect is not much different. Russians culturally resemble Finns only in areas of cultural contact. Finns are not Russians! And this is remarkably confirmed by genetics and the reaction to alcohol of both)))
And you can establish the difference between borsch and cabbage soup by examining the contents. There are no beets in cabbage soup (they call beetroot in Ukraine, in Krasnodar and Rostov). So the beets are growing poorly to the north, otherwise they would put soup in the cabbage soup and get borsch)))))

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Ah, hold me seven! We were combined with cubanoids!

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Why are the Turks then? Well nifiga Ukrainians do not look like the Turks! Maybe the Circassians?

[andrew42]

"Heresy" in the article. Forgive me for the harshness, but infa is pondergan from different places, and the author is trying to link, without hesitation, directly contradicting each other theses. Particularly amusing "..and an even more ancient, pre-Indo-European people of the western part of Asia Minor, belonging to the" peoples of the sea. "According to the author, the invasion of the" peoples of the sea "to ancient Egypt came from the area of ​​the Hisarlik hill? Not from Crete, not from Morea (Peloponess ), but like this, through the entire Aegeis, apparently on hovercraft. From what hangover did the author consider the peoples of Asia Minor at the turn of the 1-2 millennium BC to be "pre-Indo-Europeans"? What kind of population is this? Negroes? Semites? Snow people? That is, according to the author, there were no several waves of mass migrations from the north, starting from 2500 BC And where were they then? At that time, even Jacob did not steal sheep from Uncle Laban! As for the "peoples of the sea", then their appearance corresponds to several centuries following from the moment of the decline of the Minoan state (Santorini catastrophe), and is clearly superimposed on the advancement of the Achaeans to the south of the Balkan Peninsula.The Achaeans, in contrast to the sons of Dora, are obvious Celts, classic R1b, since the Gauls came to the west from the same areahabitat - north of the Balkans. Again about the "rivalry" with the Italians. Yes, there was no rivalry initially, they do not fight with snotty ones. I dare to remind you that the town of Romulus was ruled by the Etruscan TsARs! Before any republics there. Although in the Etruscan principalities, the way of life was more veche than monarchical. but for the goat herders on the Tiber it was the "king" who was planted, without this domestication, there would be no patricians later, and the republic too. Rome rose due to the borrowing of Etruscan culture, military and political heritage, and rose due to the collapse of the Etruscan state and civil strife among the Etruscan city-principalities, and the Romans erased some of the latter to the ground, such as Veii. According to the author, it turns out that Donald Tusk is a descendant of the Etruscans? Well, so the same! no matter what the self-name of Russena! To listen to the Greeks and the Romans, so they and on the Don (Tanais) lived "one-eyed Arimasp." Meanwhile, it is obvious that the ancestors of the Etruscans came to Northern Italy from the territory of modern Croatia, quite overland, and earlier than the Gauls (Celts) "mastered" France and began to raid across the Alps. The difference in the cultures of the Etruscans and Celts (Gauls) is so significant that if it were not for Etruria, the Gauls would not have to climb the Capitol under the goose ha-ha-ha. Would have gone Italy like a knife through butter, And much earlier.

[cth; fyn]

Yeah, if they would have gone through the Alps, how could the inhabitants of the Alps have chopped them up there, they’ve cheated the ganibal’s cabbage, half of the army have squandered, and here the Gauls through the Alps. Of course, Ganibal crossed the Alps much later, but something tells me that people lived there long before.

[andrew42]

"Of course Hanibal crossed the Alps much later." Of course later, - they answered themselves. Secondly, the Gauls went to Italy, through the valleys of the Rhone and Po, by RUNNING. And of course, those going on a raid choose simpler mountain passes, and less protected by the aborigines, and ideally put their "controllers" there. And at all times there were services for a share in the production.

[kalibr]

Quote: andrew42

Meanwhile, it is obvious that the ancestors of the Etruscans came to northern Italy from the territory of modern Croatia, quite by land

Where is this "obvious". Who is "clearly visible". Remember what Bender said about such experts?

[andrew42]

I remember WHAT Comrade Bender said about experts. In addition, I remember very well who is comrade Bender, and for WHAT he said this - namely, to defame the only character who could burn the swindlers. So an example not worthy of imitation. However, if you are more fond of Aeneas 'mega-fleet and the unbroken Trojans, with mothers, nannies, and children on board, wandering around the Mediterranean, then you can truly believe in this Aeneas' Ark. By the way, why the hell did they not settle in Sicily, in Calabria? what tsunami carried them into the Alriatica up to the present day Trieste? Were they sportsmen-rankers? Did Fyodor Konyukhov drive them for an hour?

[Vasily Vasilyev]

Also with cows (do not forget, this is important!)))))

[kalibr]

There are images of their ships and quite large. So why not. And to swim there for long ...

[Mwg]

I agree completely, under one condition: - that ancient Rome was not stuffed with Scaliger and others like him

[andrew42]

And finally, the author finally voiced what for the sake of all this scribbling in the article: "They did not leave Italy, as some Slavophiles claim, to become the ancestors of the Slavs .."! The curtain! Who are these and the most Slavophiles that lead the Slavs from the Etruscans? The most "leavened" version says just the opposite, that the Etruscans are a branch of the Proto-Slavs! In short, using a set of well-known historical facts and archaeological artifacts, the article solves one problem: Etruscan culture has NOTHING to do with Slavic culture. This is a very familiar sound. "Etruscan is not readable" and "Assad must go."

[Mwg]

author round with green beguiled. He is trying to convince: if the Etruscans didn’t come from the North, then there is no relationship with the Russians; not no, no one ever falsified anything. Why such a narrative logic? Is this a dislocation of consciousness or a conscious distortion of causal logic? Who is it? Does the gentleman try to analyze sobriety on the site or try to find out the percentage of Russophiles from the comments? Or writes for a wallet?
By the way, do they pay money for articles? If so, who? I also want to write an article, but I don’t want to share my thoughts for free))))))
And still, ladies and gentlemen, today an article on Mail.ru was about the research of a group of scientists from the notorious USA, who found that ALL languages ​​in the world are descended from ONE language. the author does not know from what? Maybe it will enlighten all those who, I quote, are "experts" who know for sure that the Etruscans are the ancestors of the Russians (Slavs), well, away we go. "??

[VSkilled]

... Herodotus also reported, writing that the Etruscans are immigrants from Lydia ...

Well, Herodotus - a lot of things "reported": Avon, "Atlantis" - they still can't find ...

In general, it turns out that the goal is the same: "offend Russia." However, the purpose of this “event” is again incomprehensible. Before the 1917 revolution, Russia was an empire whose rulers were closely related to the ruling houses of Europe ...

Aha ... That, oddly enough, did not in the least prevent these very "ruling houses", quite often, to declare each other even (!) ... War!

And it was precisely science that gave us the most important evidence that Herodotus and archaeologists were right ...

Well, if "in the same row", and - old Herodotus, then "archaeologists" - simply cannot be wrong. Yeah ... Especially if the "archeologists" are British or Israeli. The latter, by the way, in their search for the "grave of Jesus", were "marked" with particularly persistent ingenuity, which has nothing to do with science.

"British scientists" have become ... an "Internet meme".

... as some Slavophiles claim ...

The shade of contempt is "detective". To be a "Slavophile" turns out to be "not good."
Well, Duc ... The West is much more pleasant Russophobia - a very old truth.

Here, as they say, that’s all, there’s nothing further to argue about ...

Oh what? If everything was so unambiguously provable - the world would have long been shown an appropriate scientific monograph, instead of from all sides of a dubious article on an entertainment resource.
True, the scientific monograph will be discussed by serious uncles who can hurt and even completely cross out the "scientific career" of Mr. Shpakovsky. Therefore, shitting with such articles, although not scientific, is clearly safer.

And this means that ... the Etruscans ... have never been our ancestors!

Well, Mr. Shpakovsky, there is no doubt about YOUR ancestors, Poland (another "friend" of Russia), at one time, was almost the forerunner of Izrailovka.

[kalibr]

Oh, how it takes you ... But I will disappoint you ... get into the Internet - there are serious monographs and textbooks and "serious people" inserted them into the textbook for the 6th grade - take a look. So don't worry about my career. As for the scientific nature, I accept comments only from an equal, okay? And as for the surname, -ha-ha, and my ancestors -ha-ha, I already wrote here that I chose her for its euphony, and that this is the name of my mother in her second marriage. So, alas, I have nothing to do with Poland. Although I would like to - the Shpakovsky family from near Minsk Mazovetsky, after all, are noblemen recorded in the 6 velvet book of the Russian Empire. But ... it didn’t grow together!

[Vasily Vasilyev]

I recall a conversation with the head of the Northwest expedition of the Hermitage. As he talked about scientific disputes at conferences of Normanists and anti-Normanists. Adult men, he says, with gray hair in beards, but how these beards were fighting each other!
The term "serious people" somehow does not roll among historians (no offense to historians). It's just that this sphere is very emotional)))

[kalibr]

Well, he didn't say it, he just repeated it. "Rolls" is not very literary either, is it?

[kalibr]

Xenophobia has been a well-known thing for a long time, but to show it today and here is childishness!

[iouris]

The Etruscans are Russian. Now prove the opposite, who needs it.

[unknown]

Maybe for the best that did not grow together.

Genetic studies by Western scholars have shown, oddly enough, that the Russians, Poles, and the so-called Germans are one nation.
But, with regard to the so-called Polish nobility, the gentry is a big road, and the gentry is a gang of relatives on this road hunting and robbery. You need it, such a relationship.

Regarding the Etruscans. Their alleged arrival from Asia Minor does not in the least alienate them from the Russians. In the Russian language there are enough words that find their true meaning only in the Turkish language environment. And Turkey is the same Asia Minor. Surprisingly, the domestic mat is normal Turkish.

And for your career, I’m not worried. That part of fiction, the foundation of which was laid by the astrologer and numerologist Scaliger, and which is called the science of history, will exist unchanged for some time. Before the collapse of Western civilization. And then it will begin ... as after the ban of the CPSU ... mass exit ...

[Vadim42]

The author probably meant "Rosenov", it was the Greeks who called them Turens (Etruscans), Egyptians Turushe (Turshe). Of course, you cannot take on faith everything written, who orders and writes. Nothing has changed in the history of Egypt, Rome and the whole world up to the present day, only the scale. When their alphabet is translated, then we will find out who the Rosen are.

[Mwg]

Well, judging by the text of the author of the article, I quote, "The Etruscans recorded their religious views in the sacred books, and the Romans later translated them and learned a lot of interesting things from them, in particular, about fortune telling by the entrails of animals, about heavenly signs and various rituals, when the help of which you can "act" on the gods. ", and the alphabet was translated long ago, and the texts were read long ago)) Back in ancient Rome)))

[vignat21]

How it was necessary to turn the brains of the Russian people (all kinds of Shletser, Millers, and other all kinds of dishonesty) so as not to see the obvious. Not be able to hear your subconscious. I advise you at your leisure E.I. Klassena.http: //topwar.ru/uploads/images/2016/818/ctuf206.jpg

[Cartalon]

A funny discussion, given that the ancient Rus was never Slavs, any source says this and the treaties given by PVL especially, it becomes completely ridiculous.

[Oprychnik]

The story is finally the most pseudoscientific of all pseudosciences. It’s a kind of synthetic compilation of amusing and unreliable, mostly torn from earlier sources of heartbreaking stories from the Torah, piles of shards of incomprehensible origin, as a result of the work of archaeologists, heaps of written, transcribed and repeatedly misrepresented, whether by neglect or even someone’s malicious instigation
"historical" works, God knows how they have survived through the millennia right up to the present day. Knowledge is attracted either in astrology, or maybe I'm just afraid to lie - in astronomy, a bunch of supposedly reliable, and in different sources again interpreting this or that historical moment of sources on the most modern of sciences -GENETICS! You can also add a bunch of all sorts of other factors and fragments to this list. Under Ivan IV, history looked like we don't really know. Under the Romanovs, history was rewritten under the new ruling dynasty. After 1917, history was rewritten again, and now it is being rewritten again, I think, not the last time. How can one find the TRUTH in this science ???

[Oprychnik]

And so, of course, as taught at school.

[Oprychnik]

Well, and also, for those who doubt, how epoch-making discoveries are made from the excellent film "Bluff".)))

[AK64]

Well, and also, for those who doubt, how epoch-making discoveries are made from the excellent film "Bluff".)))

You will still laugh, but very many officially recognized discoveries were made in approximately this way.

Of the most famous, very doubtful: Schliemann with his "Priam's treasure". (he found the city, and they even think that it really is Troy - but here is "Priam's treasure ....")
Again, Schliemann with his Mycenamia is again in gold, but Agamemnon already.
Well, the tomb of Tut ...

[ovod84]

It smells like something bad here. If scientists prove that the Etruscans are Russian ancestors, I will be proud and rejoice with all my heart, but unfortunately they will prove none. do not be like Ukram and Chechens who consider themselves the descendants of Noah.

[Sweles]

Quote: ovod84

It smells like something bad here. If scientists prove that the Etruscans are Russian ancestors, I will be proud and rejoice with all my heart, but unfortunately they will prove none. do not be like Ukram and Chechens who consider themselves the descendants of Noah.

is, it is proved moreover in the 19th century ...

[Mr. Pip]

Achtung, comrades!
AK64, not knowing what to answer, made a "knight's move" - ​​answered me and entered it into the emergency so that I would not see what he answered me - well, this is even cooler than "minus"
Especially for everyone I repeat - he began with the fact that, as I understood, he did not agree with the words of the author that "ETHRUSIANS ARE NOT RUSSIAN". Arguing this by the way I understood that they are Indo-European Aryans
Especially for him I repeat - Indo-Europeans are a group of peoples speaking Indo-European languages ​​(Indo-European language family)
And Indo-Iranians are a group of peoples speaking Indo-Iranian languages ​​(Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family).
To make it clearer - a Negro from the United States has more reason to consider himself one nation with an Englishman from Australia, they speak at least one language!
But the "ancient Rus" and the ancient Aryans-Indo-Iranians could not even boast of this, they spoke different languages, albeit from the same family - there was only a common "root"!
Therefore, Shpakovsky is right - because a nation (ethnos) is a historically established stable set of people united by common objective or subjective attributes, in which various areas of ethnology (ethnography) include origin, a single language, culture, economy, territory of residence, self-awareness, etc.
Therefore, the Indo-Iranians and the "Rus" had nothing in common.
The origin is different! Because these are originally genetically different peoples due to the fact that the "Proto-Indo-Iranians" who moved to the south mixed with other peoples and races.
The language is also different.
The culture and economy are also different - because the "Proto-Indo-Iranians" who moved to the south not only supplemented, but also borrowed, while assimilating they borrowed more!
Moreover, it is NOT a fact that it was precisely the movement and assimilation of ethnic groups that could initially be simply the spread of culture on the example of the British Empire and the English language.
PS If he can’t read, please copy him, let him go crazy

[Glot]

Achtung, comrades!

Yes, score, just score and that's it. Do not prove one thing. I have already scored, just read and laugh.
А AK64 you don’t keep all one, it will turn everything out and no more.
Here he bumped against me above saying that in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, more than 95% were Russians. I asked him why, then, all the ON coins do not carry legends in Russian? He simply said that it was a scam.
And when about the term "Hellenistic civilization" began to argue and carry nonsense, I realized that it was useless.
He doesn’t seem to care at all about it, just to wag something and that's it.
So, score it.
This is me, the chikanuty "bashi-bazuk" also put me on the blacklist. And that, yes, nothing, I did not lose sleep from this.

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: Glot

Yes, score, just score and that's it.

No, I’m just wondering why register on the forum, then to bring opponents into the emergency situations? Logic-logic where?

Quote: Glot

Here he rested above me that they say on

Well, Lithuania and Lithuanians are tricky business, probably only Bulgaria and Tatars are trickier, although I’m not sure when reading about the Etruscans - there’s a minimum philological

[AK64]

I asked him why, then, all the ON coins do not carry legends in Russian?

Foolish, look at French, German, English medieval coins. And find them French (German, English).
Or Zhmudinsky language on coins ON find.

You are so stupid that you don’t even understand the answer.
Spend time on you ...
He also runs around complaining, sneak.

He simply said that it was a scam.

The scam is YOUR personal scam.
I, by my usual politeness, simply did not say this word "your" before "scam".

Where are the coins ON with inscriptions in Zhmudinsky?
Where are the french coins in french?
If the French (German, and other) Middle-Middle Ages Latin coins, then mean their subjects were entirely Romans?

Go stupid go

[Mwg]

I apologize, but can the Old Believers from Argentina be attributed to the Russian people? That Avon lives where ... Yes, and the economy is, it seems, the old fashioned way ... And Siberian Old Believers?

[Mr. Pip]

Quote: MVG

and Old Believers from Argentina can be attributed to the Russian people?

And what do they have to do with the Indo-Iranians, and where does the distance in general, if the original question was about the alleged millennia of mutual isolation and assimilation
By the way, you can watch from 38 minutes a report from a traveler from the Old Believer community in Bolivia - they have a strange economy for us

[ava09]

Quote: Glot

One must and clearly answer the question posed.

It is not necessary, due to personal interest or the nature of this stupidity, to try to draw others into this stupidity.

[iouris]

Etruscans are Et'Russians.

[ALLxANDr]

Comments mastered !!!! Well, gentlemen comrades have comprehended))) Ah yes well done! :)

[Skifotavr]

It can be considered proven that the ancient Etruscans moved to Italy from Asia Minor, where they lived on the territory of modern Turkey. Comparing the genetic data of the residents of the Tuscan region (ancient Etruria) with the data of citizens from Turkey, scientists at the University of Turin concluded that they were obviously similar. That is, of the Asia Minor origin of the ancient inhabitants of the Apennine Peninsula, which Herodotus reported - rightly! At the same time, the DNA of the inhabitants of the Tuscan valley of Casentino and the cities of Volterra and Murlo was studied. The donors of the genetic material were men from families who have lived in the area for at least three generations and whose surnames are unique to this region. The player chromosomes (which are transmitted from father to son) were compared with the player chromosomes from other regions of Italy, the Balkans, Turkey and also the island of Lemnos in the Aegean Sea. There were more coincidences with genetic samples from the East than from Italy. Well, and among the inhabitants of Murlo was discovered a genetic variant, which is found in general only among residents of Turkey. Here as they say - everything, there is nothing to argue further about.

And here the final answer to these disputes was given by ... cows! A study of the mitochondrial DNA of cows from Tuscany, conducted by a group of geneticists led by Marco Pellecchia of the Catholic University of the Sacred Heart in Piacenza, showed that their distant ancestors had direct relatives of cows from Asia Minor! In this case, animals of all regions of Italy were investigated. And it turned out that about 60% of the mitochondrial DNA of cows from Tuscany is identical to the mitochondrial DNA of cows from the Middle East and Asia Minor, that is, in the homeland of the legendary Etruscans. At the same time, this study did not establish a relationship between Tuscan cows and cattle from the north and south of Italy. Well, since cows are domestic animals, since they do not fly, do not swim and do not migrate in herds, it becomes clear that from one part of the Mediterranean to another they could only be reached by sea by ship. And who at that time could sail in the Mediterranean Sea on ships and “inherit” in this way with his and “bestial” genes? Only the "peoples of the sea", who first settled in Sardinia, and then on the mainland.

It is interesting, what if in Ukraine, a significant part of the territory of which by the way has long been part of the Ottoman Empire, and the rest was influenced by it, among people and among cows will also find relatives in Turkey? Ukrov also announced migrants from Turkey? However, I want to say thanks to this "hole patcher" for the "Etruscan pendant" presented in the article - her ornament is very interesting, although the author saw only a swastika there.

[Skifotavr]

For some reason, the hair of the Amazon in a red dress was erased in a hurry.

[Seal]

Quote: Skifotavr

For some reason, the hair of the Amazon in a red dress was erased in a hurry.

Such, the dynamics of the characters in the picture, from which all three characters were written, suggests that the picture was painted no earlier than the 13th century AD.
Examples.
Painting by David and Goliath of the 12th century.

Gospel story. Also the 12th century.

And here is a statue even of the 14th century.

And the horse is solid, and the rider on it, like a suitcase set.

[Boris Nikitin]

The only thing (about the Etruscans)
according to historians, only self-names slightly coincide - Rusyns, rasens, races and Rusyns, Rusichs, Russians. And that’s it. There were no other coincidences (intersections).
Neither historical territorial (migratory), nor cultural-styling, nor architectural, nor in writing.
It's like about the "life" of letters in words - like about buckwheat grain, as if the homeland is Greece (although it would be more correct - Himalayan).
The only thing that is slightly in doubt is what kind of Pelasgians there on the Greek peninsula?
I understand that the northern regions of Italy, part of Germany, Austria, in short, part of Europe were settled by Russians or Russian-speaking Slavs as you like, and they are either assimilated or put to death (as in Austria the army destroyed Russians) - and thus self-names with Russians are now in Europe one-two and miscalculated.
But the races (Etruscan-Turs-Tyrrhenians) and - Rusyns - maybe even in a more, earlier, earlier past, they dispersed?
Some in Central Asia, others in the south of Siberia. Some to Lydia, others to the south of the Urals. Some by sea to Italica, others by land to Europe ... But it is far-fetched and far-fetched - not mound studies, nor any other.

I just don’t understand what is written in Etruscan letters - if the people are from Asia - where are there even hints of ligature in the letters? What, Asia used runes?

[Boris Nikitin]

And for amateurs it is easy to solve the Etruscan question in the style of "these are Russians", then use
and talyans
but ryzhets
Yes! residents
nor derlandians
a, (over there) - nglichans
and, (clearly) - Americans
and dances
to the Hungarians
to olumbians
... forgive me ...