Military Review

Two to eight does not stretch

34
Two to eight does not stretch



At the end of December last year, the U.S. Navy intelligence released a report “Russian Navy. Historical transformation". Frankly speaking, the study turned out to be so-so - on the C grade. The document, compiled by a leading expert, George Fedoroff, looks more like a term paper student in the second year of study at the Naval Academy in Annapolis, rather than an in-depth analysis of the intelligence agency. On the other hand, this small-volume essay on the Russian Navy has everything: from Varangian campaigns to the Greeks to today.

We will not delve into history, especially since we will not find any discoveries for the sophisticated reader of NVO. But it’s worth mentioning today’s day in the mirror of this report. It is alleged that the Russian Navy "represents a serious challenge to the United States."

FEAR BEFORE "CALIBROM"


A deep impression on the overseas expert, as you might guess, of Russian origin, was made by the attacks of the Caspian ships flotilla Caliber-NK cruise missiles for the purposes of the Islamic State terrorist organization banned in Russia. The study devoted more space to them than to other Russian naval weapons.

Small artillery ships (MAK) of the 21630 "Buyan" project and small missile ships (MRK) of the 21631 "Buyan-M" in the section on new surface ships of the Russian fleet are even placed in front of frigates and corvettes. Two schemes are very intelligible.

The first one shows the damage radii by “calibers” launched from the waters of the Caspian, Black, Baltic and Barents seas. With an 1000 flight range of miles, i.e., about 1852 km (note that a number of authoritative sources say that the maximum range of these cruise missiles is 2000 and even 2500 km), the entire Europe, except for Spain and Portugal, can hit them, most of the states of Central Asia, as well as some countries of the Middle East.

The second diagram shows how “victims” of “caliber” will be Japan, Korea and Alaska. Obviously, the report was compiled before the diesel-electric submarine Rostov-on-Don of the 06363 project attacked the objects of the IG 8 of December 2015 of the year from under the water with Caliber-PL missiles. Otherwise, the third scheme would have to be placed in this work, in which almost half of the territory of the United States would be shown, which could be the object of potential strikes by “caliber” of Russian submarines.

SUCCESS ON BACKGROUND PROBLEMS


Indeed, last year was a triumph for the Russian naval weapons and above all cruise missiles of the Caliber family. However, their undoubted success did not reduce the urgency of the problems experienced by the Russian Navy. This is especially true of non-stopping reductions in the naval composition of the ship. The loss of retired combat units, alas, is not compensated by the number of newly commissioned.

It should be noted that following the results of the shipbuilding year, almost no bravura reports were heard from either the high-ranking representatives of the Ministry of Defense, nor the command of the Navy, or the shipbuilding industry. Specific figures were made only in the report of Sergei Shoigu at the extended meeting of the board of the Ministry of Defense 11 December 2015. As the head of the Russian Defense Ministry stated, “the supply of two multi-purpose submarines and eight surface ships allowed us to maintain the pace of increasing the combat potential of the Navy and raise the share of modern ships to 39%.” At the same time, he noted that the fleet had received less two surface ships.

We have already talked about the chronic dishonesty of officials of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation who are responsible for providing indicators of the state and development of the Navy to the highest military-political leadership of the country. Here and in this case obvious disinformation is visible. Or, in the National Center for Defense Management, where all data about deliveries of military equipment and weapons to the Armed Forces of the country in real time, computer crashes go to?

But back to the figures voiced by the Minister of Defense. With submarines there is clarity. We are talking about two diesel-electric submarines "Stary Oskol" and "Krasnodar" project 06363, which became part of the Navy last year. Apparently, this time the Ministry of Defense abandoned the practice of including submarines and surface ships that had been repaired and modernized into the number of "new recruits". In 2014, due to this purely Russian know-how of the Russian Navy, the Ekaterinburg project 667BDRM, the Ladny and Pytlivny escort ships of the 1135 / 1135М project and the large landing ship Caesar Kunikov of the 775 / II project, which were built, were added to the Russian Navy. in 70 – 80-ies of the last century and only underwent repairs. But at the expense of such “accounting”, it was possible to “inflate” the number of ships entering the Navy by four units. What, you see, a lot. And you could reach up to seven units. For some reason they forgot about the nuclear submarine Obninsk of the project 671РТМК and Tomsk of the project 949А, diesel submarine Vyborg of the project 877, returned from repair in 2014 year. By the way, last year Tomsk became the winner of the Russian Navy championship in training and combat launches of anti-ship cruise missiles, and Obninsk conducted a successful military service.

Last year, in addition to the “Old Oskol” and “Krasnodar”, the multi-purpose submarines “Gepard” of the 971 project and the Pskov project of the 945A and the diesel-electric submarine Vladikavkaz of the 877 project could be counted as the “new”. However, the know-how of the model 2014, still refused. Such a manipulation looks painfully odious.

But if there is clarity with submarines, then there is no clarity with surface ships. Solid fog, rather, fantasy. The fact is that last year the Russian Navy actually received only two surface combat ships. These are the Green Dol and Serpukhov small rocket ships of the Buyan-M project 21631. They are brothers of those who in October and November launched massive strikes with “caliber” on the positions of terrorists in Syria. On December 12 in Sevastopol, the St. Andrew's flag was raised on them, and on the same day they took up combat duty.

The need for these IRAs is great. And not only in the Caspian and the Black Sea. They are also successfully able to operate in the southern Baltic and the Gulf of Finland. But the pace of their construction is uneven and insufficient. In the 2013 year, the Navy transferred two IRAs of this project (“Grad Sviyazhsk” and “Uglich”), in 2014, only one unit arrived (“Great Ustyug”), in 2015 there was a replenishment in the face of the already called “Green Dola” and "Serpukhov". In the construction are four IRAs of this type, intended for the Black Sea Fleet. This year, the launch of the Vyshny Volochka is expected, in the 2017-m - of the Orekhova-Zuev and Ingushetia, in the 2018-m - of the "Grayvoron". According to previous plans, the series was planned from 12 units. Now it has been reduced to nine.

At the end of December last year, the MRK "Uragan" and "Typhoon" were laid - the lead and first serial ships of the 22800 "Karakurt" project, which should have higher seaworthy qualities in comparison with the "Buyan-M" so that they could be used in the northern seas and the Pacific. The leaders of the construction plant of these ships claim that they will be handed over to the customer at the end of 2017 of the year and during the year of 2018. I would like to hope so, all the more so that this enterprise is one of the most advanced and technically equipped in the industry. But on his stocks, warships had never been built before. And although the Karakurt project has been somewhat simplified compared to the original plan (for example, instead of the yet untested Pantsir-M PLA, well-developed ZAK AK-630М will be installed), practice shows that at least three will be needed for the construction and testing of the lead ship. - four years, that is, it will enter the Navy no earlier than 2019 – 2020.

Pour into a basin of water ...


Meanwhile, instead of increasing the pace of construction of well-established and well-established in the production of "Buyanov-M", the so-called patrol ships (PC) of the 22160 project are being laid and built. We have already written more than once that the Russian Navy needs them like an umbrella fish, since they actually duplicate the functions of border guard ships.

In order to "push through" the PC project 22160, resort to a variety of tricks. Like, these are the ships of tomorrow. They say they have a modular container, that is, a replaceable weapon system. It should be noted that overseas fashion for modular weapons in shipbuilding is fading away. The Americans did not manage to create combat-ready replaceable modules for their littoral warships (LBK) of the Freedom and Independence type. Last December, the Pentagon cut their construction program from 52 to 40 units. It happened not without the influence of the impression that Russian “Buyans-M” with “Calibers” made on the military-political leadership of the United States. The LBK under construction and under construction, which were reclassified into frigates, will be re-equipped with anti-ship missiles with a firing range of up to 185 km. On the modules already almost do not stutter. With the 33 Corps, they will launch a series of modifications, which will in fact become a new project with enhanced strike weapons.

We have the same modularity, which came to Russia with a delay of a good ten years, is still in the trend. At the Innovation Day of the Ministry of Defense in Kubinka near Moscow at the beginning of October last year, one could see the PC model of the 22160 project, to which not only the anti-ship CUK URAN, but also the autonomous deep-water apparatus of the 16811 Consul project were attached. But it is unlikely that anyone would think of the absurd idea of ​​equipping this unique and without exaggeration with a precision mini-submarine, capable of diving to a depth of more than 6000 m, a patrolman, albeit modular.

Not bypassed the "calibration" of the Russian Navy and the 22160 project. They talked about it before, but now they directly rank the PC as the carrier of long-range cruise missiles. The Interpolitech-2015 exhibition, which took place in the second half of October, showed the patrol model with Calibers placed in two standard 40-foot containers — starting modules. Each has four rockets, that is, the total is the same as there are on Buyan-M and Karakurtakh, but with a displacement twice as large as the MRK.


Last year, the Black Sea Fleet’s combat squadron was replenished with two 06363 submarines. Photos from the official website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation


The Club-K complex is the export designation of the same “Calibrov”, designed to be placed on civilian ships, railway platforms and car trailers. Its main feature is stealth, since it is almost impossible to distinguish a container with missiles from that in which, say, a potato is transported. Of course, this system is capable of receiving ships and military vessels. Thus, at the International Naval Show last year in St. Petersburg, a model of an Arctic-class patrol vessel with a displacement of 6800 t was presented, which, if necessary, can be equipped with a Caliber-K complex in three 40-foot containers, two of which are four missiles, and in the third - the module management.

The total displacement of the PC project 22160 – 1700 t, which is clearly not enough to accommodate containerized "Gauges" and other weapons, including a helicopter. For some reason, there is no control module on it.

It is doubtful the very possibility of the normal firing of "Gauges" by these patrol ships. Starting modules are located directly at the aft cut of the PC. The length of the “Calibers”, depending on the modification, is from 6,2 to 8,22 m, and the start is vertical, that is, before launching, the rocket needs to be placed “pop”. On a narrow feed with a small draft, even with a slight agitation, the product will inevitably sway from side to side.

And if the rocket is still able to launch? Spend a simple experience. Buy in the "Children's World" toy boat. Pour into a bath or just in a basin of water and run the model there. Take a pencil and lightly strike them from top to bottom from the left or right side of the stern section of the toy. She danced like Vanka-vstanka. That will also shoot the "Gauges" of the PC project 22160, even in calm. Is it worth the risk? Moreover, the "Buyany-M" is cheaper.

UNFINISHING ARITHMETICS


Where did the other six surface ships come from in the report of the Minister of Defense? Could it be that the middle reconnaissance ship (communications vessel) Yuri Ivanov of the 18280 project, on which the naval flag was raised on Navy Day, that is, 26 of July last year, was added to their list? But no, he was accepted into the Navy 30 in December 2014 of the year, that is, does not fit into the offset of the past year.

It seems that the number of ships, that is, combat units, included auxiliary vessels: the oceanographic research vessel "Yantar" of the 22010 project, whose sailing off the American coast in August-September of last year caused a nervous reaction in Washington, the sea transport of weapons "Akademik Kovalyov" of the 20180TV project (20181) and the rescue ship "Igor Belousov" project 21130. But still it's five, not eight. The sixth is still possible to attract a large sea dry-cargo transport “Yauza” of the icebreaking class, last year completing a seven-year (!) Repair and modernization project 550М. It is intended to supply military garrisons and naval bases in the Arctic, but due to the lack of, or rather, the fleet’s lack of transport vessels, it took the Novorossiysk – Tartus Syrian Express Line to provide parts of HVMim in the SAR.

Last year, the fleet received about 30 anti-sabotage, amphibious, rescue and diving boats, as well as tugboats, floating cranes and floats. But they all do not belong to the category “ship”.

With two ships undelivered navy also appears the problem. As Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Yury Borisov said to journalists after the ceremony of laying the MRC of the Karakurt type, “unfortunately, the schedules for this year for Admiral Grigorovich and Admiral Essen are a little off, they are being transferred to 2016 year”. Why it happened, we don’t bother to judge, but, obviously, the customer had reasons to postpone acceptance, although the lead frigate of the 11356Р / M project was planned to be handed over to the fleet as early as 2014. December 30 last year, "Admiral Grigorovich", having successfully shot out in the North with "calibers" and the Stil-1 air defense system, completed state tests, but still did not qualify for 2015 of the year, as he had yet to revise the mechanisms and units at the construction plant in Kaliningrad.

Vice-Admiral Viktor Bursuk, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy for Armaments, in turn said that admission to the Northern Fleet of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate, the 22350 lead project, is being transferred to 2016 year due to the “large amount of ship armament testing”. 1 February of this year, this frigate will celebrate the 10 anniversary from the date of the bookmark. It has already passed a significant amount of tests in the Baltic and in the ranges of the Northern Fleet, including carried out successful launches of the Caliber family of missiles. What kind of weapons says Victor Bursuk? The Package-NK anti-submarine and anti-torpedo defense complex has been tested on 20380 corvettes. The remaining 130-mm artillery A-192 “Armat” artillery, MILAN defense of the “Palash” near zone and the “Redut-Polymer” air defense system. Which of these systems inhibits the surrender of "Admiral Gorshkov", do not undertake to judge. We only note that the “Redoubt” air defense missile system installed on the corvettes of the 20380 project still does not work in accordance with the stated tactical and technical characteristics. Meanwhile, a source from the military-industrial complex told RIA Newsthat "the transfer to the Navy of the lead frigate of the 22350 project" Admiral Gorshkov "is shifting to the right, at the end of 2016 of the year."

In addition to frigates, the large landing ship (BDK) "Ivan Gren" of the 11711 project and the minesweeper "Alexander Obukhov" of the 12700 "Alexandrite" project are in the list of ships that were not delivered last year. Both of them - the head in his series. I remember that the Ministry of Defense wanted to get the “Perfect” 2015 project corvette before the end of 20380, too, but this did not happen. This ship will also celebrate this year's 10 anniversary from the day it was bookmarked. But such dates are somehow not encouraging. Russian frigates and corvettes are built much longer than ships of similar classes in the Myanmar shipyards, where they most recently began to master the art of military shipbuilding.

The ship of logistics support “Elbrus” - the head of the 23120 project - did not have time for delivery last year. It was laid in November in 2012. Such vessels, created on the basis of suppliers who serve offshore oil and gas platforms, are usually built in one and a half, from two years of strength. It took us more than four years. And there is no result yet. In addition, on the eve of the New Year there was a small fire on Elbrus.

Let us summarize the arithmetic with which the officials of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation failed. The Russian fleet in the 2015 year received from the industry two new submarines, two surface combat ships, three auxiliary vessels, about 30 boats, tugboats, floating cranes and float ships. Three frigates, a corvette, a BDK, a minesweeper and an auxiliary vessel — six combat ships and vessels in total — were lost. In the light of these figures, commenting on the minister’s words about the share of modern ships in the Navy "up to 39%" is even somehow embarrassing. Of course, this is also fiction. It seems that Sergei Kujugetovich Shoigu should be thoroughly cleaned by the staff of his staff, who cannot count to 10, which the first-grade students do.

QUIET HARBOR OF THE "FLYING DUTCHS"


But in the first place, the Navy and the Ministry of Defense, that is, the customers, suffer from underdelivery. In theory, the main supplier of warships and submarines for the fleet should be the United Shipbuilding Corporation, which includes 80% of the enterprises in the industry. It belongs to the state on 100%, and 75% of orders it carries out falls on military products. In the incomplete nine years of its existence, seven executives have changed at USC. Among them were a general, a former high-ranking government official, advanced managers, a financier, and even one professional shipbuilder. And the result - the cat wept. "Admiralty Shipyards" and Sevmash both built submarines without the participation of USC, and continue to build them, already entering the holding. But the surface shipbuilding is in deep knockout.

It is not by chance that the Ministry of Defense and the FSB prefer to order ships and boats not from the USC, but from companies that do not belong to this association. They do work faster and better. Only because of the lack of production capacity they build ships, boats and vessels, as a rule, of a small displacement.

Obviously, the reasons, to put it mildly, the unsatisfactory activities of USC are rooted not in careless managers, although it is often present, but in the holding itself, the mechanism of which does not work for the final result - real combat units, but for cash execution of state defense orders, that is, for monetary development means.

Therefore, this cozy harbor of the “flying Dutch” needs serious reconstruction, and perhaps even “dismemberment” into several large companies that must compete with each other, as is the case, for example, in the Chinese shipbuilding industry. Otherwise, we are still doomed to inflated numbers and double-entry bookkeeping in military shipbuilding.
Author:
Originator:
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2016-01-22/1_two_eight.html
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  1. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 24 January 2016 11: 04
    +8
    It seems the article is correct, but the sediment remains ...
    1. cniza
      cniza 24 January 2016 11: 09
      27
      Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
      It seems the article is correct, but the sediment remains ...


      We have enough problems and we need to know them, then it will be easier to solve them.
      1. Blondy
        Blondy 24 January 2016 11: 57
        20
        Oh, if only for the USC, and then where is it not copnm, starting with Rusnano and ending with Roskosmos.
      2. bort4145
        bort4145 24 January 2016 12: 17
        +3
        cozy harbor "flying Dutch"
        Know not transferred to Russia Chichikov, s.ki, a pity
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 24 January 2016 18: 55
          0
          Everything is simpler - the raptors and Dugongs counted the ships. In 2015, they handed over 4 raptors and 2 Dugong, with two mrk and we get 8 ships. True, these boats do not pull on ships, but the MO is more visible. In principle, they could have passed 2 more frigates (they have already been tested for a long time), but for the Moscow Defense Forces they are both lead ones and, accordingly, they will be tested longer. I think that they will accept both Grigorovich and Gorshkov by some date, since they already seem to have completed all the tests. This year, in any case, they will pass all the long-term projects and I hope that what is planned for delivery this year will not be postponed. request
          And about 22160 I do not agree with the author - a normal cheap corvette ovr. Initially, we did not intend to put the gauges there, but the modular principle allows them to be hung in the case when you need a massive strike cr. In normal condition, the ship will be without them - not for this he. In my opinion, the idea is competent, but we will see how it will show itself in life. hi
  2. Misha Honest
    Misha Honest 24 January 2016 11: 04
    +8
    Peter the First in the coffin is probably turning over ... sad
    1. mojohed2012
      mojohed2012 24 January 2016 15: 56
      +6
      Exactly, and for one, all the admirals of the former USSR, whose names are named after the ships that the fleet brought to the handle in 90 and the first 10 of the 2000 of the years.
      And they will roll over until our fleet becomes the best and most powerful means of deterring the United States and its "allies" - slaves.
      1. Anton Gavrilov
        Anton Gavrilov 24 January 2016 17: 15
        +2
        And they will roll over before


        That is, 1 is not a dozen years unfortunately ....
  3. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 24 January 2016 11: 05
    +4
    Article +. Well, again, a lot of letters, at least I learned about Zhid Fidorof.
    1. meriem1
      meriem1 24 January 2016 13: 45
      -2
      Quote: iliitch
      Article +. Well, again, a lot of letters, at least I learned about Zhid Fidorof.

      ..And the name of the author is much like! Cerebral! Alexei Borisovich remembered immediately! Eternal Memory to the Hero !!!!
      ps. And with Us everything is slowly moving forward! Neither wobbly nor roll, but it moves. The "partners" behind the puddle are straining more and more .. And rightly so!
  4. V.ic
    V.ic 24 January 2016 11: 06
    +6
    [quote] the reasons, to put it mildly, the unsatisfactory activities of USC are not found in negligent leaders, although this is often present, but in the holding itself, whose mechanism does not work on final result - real units, and on the cash execution of the state defense order, that is for cash use. Author Alexander Mozgovoy / quote]
    This is a no brainer! One would be surprised if they invested their money ...
    [quote] needs a serious reconstruction, and possibly in "dismemberment”To several large companies that must compete with each other, as, for example, is observed in the Chinese ship industry. Author Alexander Mozgovoy [/ quote]
    But this is not a fact. It is not a fact that two cats "tune" a whale. And is there a surplus of production capacity? The result will be "sawing" the pie in two or three "polynomials". Give Lavrenty Pavlovich and his apparatus back, it will be cheaper.
  5. RomanS
    RomanS 24 January 2016 11: 17
    10
    To talk about a problem without having reliable and adequate information smells strongly of populism. There are a lot of similar "analytics" on the Internet among "all-propals". The author put his article in a series of news about Ksenia (pah, pah, pah) Sobchak. It is unprofessional to draw conclusions based on indirect indications and inaccurate information.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 January 2016 12: 54
      13
      Quote: RomanS
      It is unprofessional to draw conclusions on indirect grounds and inaccurate information.

      Professional conclusions are made by the state commission and the prosecutor's office.
      But I'm talking about something else.
      Collecting boxes (hulls) is not the same as building ships! The ship (blah!) Also has a "filling". But with her, the shipbuilders strained! Import substitution components - where are they? Ship GTU - ay! And so you can list it for a long time. And to get all this, you need to build factories. Have you heard a lot about new factories? We have heard about rubles and dollars, but they don’t go to sea ... This is the root of all evil! MONITARISTS need to be driven from all cracks with an average broom, managers need to be changed for managers and industrial workers, the old clip must be retired (and not attached to the feeders!) - that's what needs to be done first of all. Then it will be possible to talk about business with competent people, and not with talking heads reading reports on cheat sheets.
      In the meantime, we have those who have us ...
      IMHO.
      1. Kuzyakin15
        Kuzyakin15 24 January 2016 17: 47
        +1
        Boa KAA:
        100 ++++
        Clearly, concisely and to the point.
        My respect to you!
      2. VALERIK_097
        VALERIK_097 24 January 2016 23: 28
        0
        Topic Boa +++
  6. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 24 January 2016 11: 20
    +4
    Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
    It seems the article is correct, but the sediment remains ...



    Indeed, the article left a double impression. One side
    constructive thoughts, on the other hand, it smells of an order to the USC. Recently, there was already material addressed to USC, but there 90% of positive and 10 - healthy criticism.
    1. Anton Gavrilov
      Anton Gavrilov 24 January 2016 17: 29
      -1
      Positive????????????

      From the activities of USC ?????????????????????

      Good joke ....
    2. Anton Gavrilov
      Anton Gavrilov 24 January 2016 17: 32
      -3
      This office, in general, was created exclusively for drinking dough, that's all. For otherwise, things like 22160,22800 projects, the Leader in the form in which they are now drawing in SPKB simply would not have appeared.
  7. Butt
    Butt 24 January 2016 11: 23
    10
    The reasons, to put it mildly, for the unsatisfactory activities of the USC are not in the negligent leaders, although this is often present, but in the holding itself, the mechanism of which does not work on the final result - real military units, but on the cash execution of the state defense order, that is, on the money spent on funds.
    Therefore, this cozy harbor of the Flying Dutchmen needs serious renovation. "
    Alas, this is obviously so, due to the fact that there is a "separation of duties" to whom the donut / money /, and to whom the donut hole / production of ships / and here is the result.
    What can you expect from "successful managers"! They make money, not ships.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 January 2016 13: 18
      15
      Quote: Butt
      What can you expect from "successful managers"! They make money, not ships.
      As for the effective managers, Volodya, you're right at 150%.
      But it's time to change the approach to business:
      Is the ship worth 1 yd? - Yes, for 1 lard, we will build it in 3 years. - And if for each early month I throw 50 lemons? - Then I undertake to build at an accelerated pace !!! -- Okay! Here's 500 lemons in advance. After 3 years, I receive the ship and give the rest of the tugriks. Is it good? - Oh "kay!
      BUT!!!! If you delay the change, then for each month you will unfasten the amount of 50 lemons! Is going?
      (The manager's mug grimaced, but I want money ... Therefore, it squeezes out through force - "Going" ... Financial Director (aside): -and d and o t !!! /
      I buy a product, I pay money, I set conditions. Everything is simple!
      As Gotsman said: "Oil painting!" (C)
      1. Severok
        Severok 24 January 2016 16: 52
        +1
        Exactly, an excellent cure for red tape! And if 50 more lyamas will be out of the pocket of an "effective manager", then the construction speed will be just shock!
      2. ssergn
        ssergn 24 January 2016 21: 13
        0
        Cool! good

        Here's the current ... where will he get another 500 million, yes for three years? Oil painting.
        Your circuit is death for the manufacturer.
  8. Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 24 January 2016 11: 28
    +6
    No, I'm sorry, but I really want to raise the question-and the destroyers of project 950-if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, which almost all of them stand in a sludge will not be upgraded? The fleet has a bunch of ships and ships, but you are smoking in the composition! There is no money for new ones, upgrade what there is, otherwise we can boil all the masters with grubs, and our fleet is our tears, it seems like it is, but there are very few warships in it capable of going out into the ocean, and conducting combat work without being accompanied by a tug, so as not to stall out to sea " old man. "
    1. Hydrograph
      Hydrograph 24 January 2016 11: 48
      +5
      EM 956. There was an extensive article on the state of the VO site on them. Upgrade? It may be cheaper to build a new one. And there are no normal workers, only lawyers and managers, whom to build.
      P.S. At Dalzavod, Korean Sanyongs are assembled for what ships are needed.
    2. musorg
      musorg 24 January 2016 12: 11
      +1
      Six EM pr.956 "Sarych" stand and think their bitter thought.
    3. Anton Gavrilov
      Anton Gavrilov 24 January 2016 17: 28
      0
      No, they will not, they will gradually reach the end of their resources, and will go to rest.

      Those that stand motionless will now go to the scrap, well, or they will either drown as targets.
    4. g1v2
      g1v2 24 January 2016 19: 09
      +1
      Frigate 22350 is almost more powerful than buzzards in almost all respects and completely replaces them. In my opinion, 956 is too problematic and their modernization into something decent will be too expensive and debt, and not too effective. But the BPC 956 will obviously be modernized - the ships are reliable and have long been pulling almost all long trips, while the buzzards in the near sea zone hang out and for whom any long hike is roulette. In general, I hope all 1155 BPCs are being upgraded. As a result, then we get - 9 battalion commanders and 9 off-road cruisers - 6 ships of the first rank, well, 15 Sarychs are still sailing. request It’s not thick, but it will do for a local war. The leaders before 2025 will obviously not be in the ranks, the PM with ships of the first rank will be weak for a long time. Well, but the 2nd rank by 2020, the number should triple, in any case, the fleet will strengthen quite well. hi
  9. GRAY
    GRAY 24 January 2016 11: 48
    +2
    About the "toy boat" touched.
    - Uncle, do not get out better from the bathroom with your pencils - there gurgle. lol

    And the watchmen didn’t count for some reason, aren't they warships or what?
  10. satelit24
    satelit24 24 January 2016 12: 03
    +2
    Putin once said on the box-that thieves should be hung, but this is not his method! And he also says that if all thieves are transplanted, then with whom will he work?
  11. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 24 January 2016 12: 05
    +2
    If we wishful thinking, then things are not very important, to put it mildly. We have been building frigates for 10 years, the new Leader EMs are generally silent, sweeping forces are in deep ..., we boast of several MRCs, and then what?
  12. pts-m
    pts-m 24 January 2016 12: 12
    0
    It seems to me that entot george fedoroff licks all the data from VO articles. Where there is more information about submarine forces. And this must be understood is probably a signal to the top authorities that somewhere it would be overlooked where they would have let him go to especially classified papers.
  13. yuriy55
    yuriy55 24 January 2016 12: 15
    +2
    The defense industry complex should always be only under the vigilant "eye of the sovereign." Otherwise, we will always hesitate and look for the reasons for delays in delivery times and overstatement of costs in the countless crowds of "menagerie", whose attention is sharpened by the words: "Alien!", "Take!" ... stop By the way, this is their weak side, they will immediately give themselves away, because they, like army captors:

    laughing
  14. Abbra
    Abbra 24 January 2016 12: 41
    -1
    The worst thing for NATO and the United States was left behind the scenes. And it consists in the fact that "Caliber" can, purely theoretically, be launched from a fishing seiner, which fishes for mackerel off the coast of, say, California ...
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 24 January 2016 13: 28
      +2
      Quote: Abbra
      And it consists in the fact that "Caliber" can, purely theoretically, be launched from a fishing seiner,

      A "Tomahawk" can "purely theoretically" be launched from a truck that allegedly carries tomatoes, say, in Poland or Turkey! So what, should we be terribly scared too? smile
    2. Abbra
      Abbra 24 January 2016 18: 03
      0
      Some bat bat wanders around in VO and puts minuses without even reading. Object. As for the truck, the colleague below is right, but what the hell, what am I wrong with?
  15. Old26
    Old26 24 January 2016 13: 53
    +5
    Quote: PTS-m
    It seems to me that entot george fedoroff licks all the data from VO articles. Where there is more information about submarine forces. And this must be understood is probably a signal to the top authorities that somewhere it would be overlooked where they would have let him go to especially classified papers.

    Do you think there are few open sources on the fleet in the world? And the only one? Believe me, a huge amount. VO can be one of hundreds of such sources.
    As for the report, you should not pay so much attention to it. Open reviews published under the auspices of either intelligence or the military, especially in another country, are always a compilation of open sources. For it is forbidden to use information having a stamp in open materials in all countries.
    Such reports are mainly designed to create the necessary "position" among their own people. The top does not use such, if one may say so, "a commercial product", because it is more expensive for itself. There are reports with a stamp for them. But to create the desired effect inside, to hang noodles, to scare people - this is what such reports are intended for.

    Quote: Abbra
    The worst thing for NATO and the United States was left behind the scenes. And it consists in the fact that "Caliber" can, purely theoretically, be launched from a fishing seiner, which fishes for mackerel off the coast of, say, California ...

    The worst thing for us, too, was left overs. Namely, the modular container launchers are the same noodles, but already on our ears. To start with the fact that this complex is EXPORT. It’s not in service anywhere and was not bought by anyone.
    By the way, in the article for the first time, at least on VO, it is written that in addition to containers with missiles, you must also have a control module. And he, by the way, is inhabited. Has its own radar, and other electronics, which, if necessary, "clogged" by means of electronic warfare. And it is found, by the way, "at times", since the characteristics of the military radar differ from the civil one. And here you read it, so you put the container on the platform of a car or a train, drove up, in half a minute shot and killed the enemy ... This is noodles on our ears
  16. Leprekon
    Leprekon 24 January 2016 14: 16
    +2
    We have already written more than once ... Meanwhile, instead of increasing the pace of construction ... It is doubtful ... Buy a toy boat in the Children's World ...
    I cannot understand why at all times, all the "most intelligent and honest" practically, on solving problems, do not themselves work - but criticize?
  17. Sultan Babai
    Sultan Babai 24 January 2016 14: 43
    +1
    Like it or not, the lack of engines led to a delay in projects, plus before that there were problems with debugging weapons, well, to put it briefly
  18. samoletil18
    samoletil18 24 January 2016 17: 18
    0
    Yes, really ... The first 20 years from the collapse of the Union will go around for a long time. But there is movement forward. Yes, because of the sanctions and everything else, it’s not as fast as we would like. On the other hand, had there not been a problem with the import of components, would have built everything that is now unfinished and underserved, and then what? Russia with a strong army and navy does not need anyone in FIG. All the same, the Maidan is not in Ukraine, so in Georgia or where else it was arranged. Only 2 years already Russia has been engaged in its own industry and the fifth column in it, but it could all have begun in more unfavorable conditions for the country. And if everything works out, then the fleet will be equipped faster, moreover, completely all of ours from a screw to power. Hard? Yes. But otherwise nothing.
  19. nagel_Oz
    nagel_Oz 24 January 2016 17: 21
    +1
    You need to know about the problems, and WORK ABOUT THEM. Although for the sake of objectivity, it is worth mentioning that with the collapse of the USSR (respectively, the defense industry with allies in neighboring republics) and the subsequent destruction of the military-industrial complex, its training and production base during the period of perestroika and a parade of sovereignty, reorientation of the ideology of education in ministry of education, we have what we have . And it’s not easy to establish a mechanism for providing military industry. Add oil problems + ruble + budget, commonplace theft, lack of personnel, components, in a word, and what the defense mine has already reported good. The road will be overcome by a walker!
  20. TsUS-Air Force
    TsUS-Air Force 24 January 2016 20: 25
    0
    we need such global shipbuilding as an aircraft carrier or helicopter carrier at least in order to collide and give strength to our surface shipbuilding