Military Review

The myth of the “Knights of Freedom”

122

190 years ago, 14 (26) December 1825, in St. Petersburg there was an uprising of the Decembrists. After the attempt to solve the case in peace failed, Nicholas I suppressed the insurgents' speech. Later, the efforts of Western liberals, social democrats, and then Soviet historiography created the myth of "knights without fear and reproach," who decided to destroy the "royal tyranny" and build a society based on the principles of freedom, equality and fraternity. In modern Russia, it is also pleasant to speak of the Decembrists from a positive point of view. They say that the best part of the Russian society, the nobility, challenged the “dark autocracy”, but was defeated.


However, in reality, things were different. The accession to the throne of Nicholas I was overshadowed by the attempt of the secret Masonic society of the so-called "Decembrists" to seize power over Russia. The Decembrists, hiding behind the slogans that were completely humane and understandable to the majority, objectively worked for the then “world community” (the West) and were primarily subordinate to the Masonic lodges of France. In fact, they were the forerunners of the Februarylists of the 1917 model who destroyed the Russian empire. They planned to complete the physical destruction of the dynasty of the Russian monarchs of the Romanovs, their families, and even to distant relatives.

True, in 1825, the "fifth column" in Russia was still insignificant and was a miserable handful of conspirators, Westerners, who worshiped the whole of Europe, underage, corrupted by the ideas of French philosophers and Western "freedom." Therefore, the “first revolution” in Russia, whose roots went to the West, was quickly suppressed.

Unfortunately, during the mutiny, one of the villains, Kakhovsky, killed the hero of World War 1812, the brilliant Russian commander, the governor of St. Petersburg, General M. A. Miloradovich. It should be noted that Russia in almost all periods stories favorably differed in terms of true philanthropy and mercy from Western countries. Only five of the rebels were hanged, the emperor graciously bestowed life on the rest.

About the origins of the movement

It is believed that the basis of the movement of the Decembrists was the ideology of education. Representatives of the Russian nobility, having been in Europe, including during the foreign campaign 1813-1814, imbued with the spirit of the French revolution, decided to throw off the "royal tyranny" and establish a more enlightened system in the Russian Empire.

Actually, there were no objective reasons for the revolt of the noble officers. Russia was on the rise of its military and political power, was considered the "gendarme of Europe." The Russian army was the most powerful force on the planet and recently defeated one of the best commanders in the history of mankind - Napoleon Bonaparte, triumphantly entered Paris. In the empire, against the background of the passionate rise after the victory over Napoleon's empire, the rise of Russian culture began - a surge of creativity in painting, architecture, literature, poetry and science. This was the beginning of the “golden age” of Russian culture.

"Golden noble youth" decided to act in the interests of serfs and workers? Outwardly, the Decembrists' convictions really were based on noble motives; they dreamed of eliminating “various injustices and oppressions” and bringing the estates closer together to increase social welfare in Russia. Examples of the dominance of foreigners in the highest administration (just remember the environment of Tsar Alexander), extortion, violation of the legal proceedings, inhuman treatment of soldiers and sailors in the army and on navy, the trade of serfs was worried about the lofty minds of young nobles who were inspired by the patriotic upsurge of 1812-1814.

However, the “great truths” of freedom, equality and fraternity, necessary for the good of Russia, were associated in their minds only with republican institutions and European social forms, which they were in theory mechanically transferred onto Russian soil. That is, the Decembrists sought to "transplant France to Russia." As later, Westerners of the beginning of the 20th century will dream of remaking Russia into Republican France or the constitutional English monarchy. The abstraction and frivolity of such transferring lay in the fact that it was carried out without an understanding of the historical past and national traditions, centuries-old spiritual values, and the psychological and everyday structure of Russian civilization. Noble youth, brought up on the ideals of Western culture, was infinitely far from the people.

Historical experience shows that in the Russian Empire, Soviet Russia and the Russian Federation, all Western borrowing in the sphere of social and political structure, spiritual and intellectual sphere, even the most useful ones, as a result, are distorted on Russian soil, leading to degradation and destruction. As Tyutchev quite rightly noted: “You can't understand Russia with your mind, you can't measure it with the common Arshin: It becomes special for her ...”.

The Decembrists, like the later Westerners, did not understand this. They thought that if the advanced experience of the Western powers in Russia was transplanted, the people were given “freedom”, then the country would take off and prosper. As a result, the Decembrists' sincere hopes for a forced change in the existing system, for the legal order, as a panacea for all ills, eventually led to confusion and the destruction of the empire. And the Decembrists objectively, by default, worked in the interests of the masters of the West. Any weakening of Russia, unrest in the territory of Russian civilization was in the interests of the West.

Thus, as far back as 1821, the Guards General Benkendorf openly presented the Tsar with a note entitled “On secret societies in Russia”. “In 1814, when Russian troops entered Paris,” wrote the general of the imperial suite, “many officers were admitted to the Freemasons and made connections with supporters of various secret societies. The consequence of this was that they were fed up with the disastrous spirit of the parties, got used to chatting with what they did not understand, and from blind imitation got the passion to start such secret societies in their ... ” Benkendorf informed Alexander that the members of illegal societies and organizations planned to smuggle portable printing houses from abroad, with the help of which they printed "libel" and caricatures of the reigning house, the existing system of state power and administration. Spreading campaign materials on "fluttering markets" and in other places of mass gathering of people, members of secret organizations intended to cause people to be dissatisfied with the autocracy and, eventually, to overthrow it.

The future gendarme no. 1 also warned the king that the “germ of the restless spirit” had penetrated deep into the army, especially the guard. The general was, unfortunately, right. Exactly four years later, this "restless spirit", wandering among a certain part of the privileged military, led to a bloody tragedy that took place on Senate Square. Unfortunately, Alexander did not dare to crush the infection in the bud, although he had all the information about the conspirators. Moreover, he left this problem to Nicholas.

Destruction of Russian statehood

When studying the program documents of the Decembrists, it can be found that there was no unity in their ranks, their secret societies were more like discussion clubs of refined intellectuals who passionately discussed pressing political issues. In this regard, they are similar to the Westernizers-liberals of the sample of the late XIX - early XX centuries. and the Februarynists of 1917, as well as the modern Russian liberals, who cannot find a common point of view on almost any important issue. The wishes of the nobles-conspirators were often the opposite.

The head of the Southern Society of the Decembrists, Colonel and Freemason Pavel Pestel wrote one of the program documents - “Russian Truth”. Pestel expressed the interests of the most radical part of the conspirators and proposed to establish a republic in Russia. In his understanding, Russia should have been a united and indivisible state. But he proposed to divide it into 10 areas consisting of 5 provinces-provinces; I wanted to move the capital to Nizhny Novgorod; transfer the highest legislative power to the unicameral Popular Assembly, consisting of 500 members; to transfer the executive power to the State Duma as part of the 5 man, who was elected for 5 years in the National Assembly; the supreme control authority was transferred to the Supreme Council from 120 people, its members were elected for life; Regional authorities were supposed to be transferred to regional, district, district and volost local assemblies, and local governments were to be exercised by local governments.

Pestel planned to abolish serfdom, transferring to the peasants half of the arable land fund, the other half was supposed to be left in the ownership of the landowners, which was to contribute to the bourgeois development of the country. Landowners had to lease land to farmers - "capitalists of the agricultural class", which should have led to the organization in the country of large commodity farms with a broad attraction of hired labor. “Russkaya Pravda” abolished not only the estates, but also the national borders - all the tribes and ethnic groups living in Russia planned to unite into a single Russian people. Thus, Pestel planned, by the example of America, to create a kind of "melting pot" in Russia.

To speed up this process, de facto national segregation was proposed with the division of the Russian population into groups: 1) the Slavic tribe, the indigenous Russian people (all Slavs were part of it); 2) tribes affiliated to Russia; 3) foreigners (nationals and non-nationals). Pestel proposed tough measures against a number of ethnic groups. Thus, the peoples of Central Asia were supposed to be transformed into the Aral Cossacks. Gypsy forced to accept Orthodoxy or evicted from Russia. Caucasian tribes split into small groups and resettle in the country. Jews had to change their attitude towards Russia and accept some kind of agreement or were subject to concentration in the ghetto, followed by eviction to Asia.

Thus, the Pestel program guaranteedly led to the collapse of statehood, chaos, conflict between classes and different peoples. For example, the mechanism of the great redistribution of land was not described in detail, which led to a conflict between the multimillion-dollar mass of peasants and the landowners-landowners of that time. In the conditions of a radical breakdown of the state structure, the transfer of the capital, it is obvious that such a "restructuring" led to a civil war and a new confusion.

Similar threats carried the draft program document of the Northern Society of the Decembrists - “The Constitution” by Nikita Muravyov. He proposed to establish a constitutional monarchy, with the possibility of introducing a republic, if the imperial family does not adopt a constitution. In the area of ​​the state structure, Muravyov proposed to divide the Russian state into the 13 powers and the 2 regions, creating a federation of them. The conspirator proposed to create the Bothnian (Finnish) power with the capital in Helsingfors (Helsinki), the Volkhov — Petersburg, the Baltic — Riga, the Western — Vilna, the Dnieper — Smolensk, the Black Sea — Kiev, the Ukrainian — Kharkov, the Caucasus — Tiflis, the Zavolzhskaya — Yaroslavl, Kama — Kazan, Nizovaya - Saratov, Tobolsk - Tobolsk, Lenskaya - Irkutsk; The Moscow region with its capital in Moscow and the Don region is Cherkassk. Powers received the right of separation (self-determination). The capital of the federation, as well as in the Pestel program, was proposed to be moved to Nizhny Novgorod.

It is obvious that the decentralization of the Russian empire, envisaged by the Decembrists, led to a great confusion and a sharp weakening of the geopolitical, military-strategic positions of the empire in the world. It is not by chance that the conspirators entered into clear lines of death sentences not only the “intent on the regicide”, but also the intent on the “rejection of regions from the Empire”.

Thus, we see that the plans of the Decembrists are very clearly correlated with the plans of the separatists of the early 20th century or the 1990-2000. As well as the plans of Western politicians and ideologues who dream of dismembering Great Russia into a number of weak and "free" states.

Muravyov proposed to establish a bicameral "People's Chamber" ("The Supreme Duma" - the upper chamber and the "House of Representatives of the People" - the lower chamber), where the deputies were elected for 6 years on the basis of a large property qualification. This naturally led to the creation in the country of a regime of power by the rich — large landowners and representatives of the bourgeoisie. Muravyov was a supporter of the preservation of land holdings of landowners. The liberated peasants received only 2 tithing of land, that is, only a personal plot. This site, at the then low level of agrotechnologies, could not feed a large peasant family. The peasants were forced to bow to the landowners, the landowners, who had all the land, meadows and forests, turned into dependent farm laborers, as in Latin America.

Another program document of the Decembrists is the manifesto of Prince Sergei Trubetskoy. Prince Trubetskoy before the uprising was chosen as a dictator. It was this document that was to be signed by the surrendered emperor or Russian senators. This manifesto was created on the eve of the uprising, without lengthy preliminary preparation and comprehensive discussion. He would determine the fate of Russia in the coming years if the rebellion succeeded, before the Constituent Assembly was convened. The manifesto eliminated the "former government" and replaced it with a temporary one, until the Constituent Assembly elections. That is, the Decembrists created the Provisional Government.

Among the priority measures: the elimination of censorship, serfdom, recruitment and military settlements, freedom of religion, equality of all before the law, publicity of the courts and the introduction of a jury court, reducing the period of military service for the rank and file to 15 years. It was proposed to abolish all taxes and duties, to destroy the state’s monopoly on salt, on the sale of wine, etc.

Thus, the proposals of the Decembrists again led to the destruction of statehood. The state was deprived of a significant part of the proceeds to the treasury, and became partially incapable. The Decembrists offered to declare the right of every citizen "to do what he wants." And this is the simultaneous introduction of regional, district, county and parish local assemblies and boards. It is clear that in those conditions it would lead to anarchy. What would millions of peasants who have received "freedom" without land and the right to "do what he wants" to do? And with the simultaneous collapse of the sacred, time-honored royal power and the weakening of the army, the decentralization of the country. A similar example, we know from the history of 1917. Then, almost all the counties after the fall of the royal power and the expansion of the army were swept by agrarian unrest and the peasant war, in fact, began even before the war of whites and reds. That is, the actions of the Decembrists led to confusion and civil war, to the collapse of the powerful Russian Empire.



Three attempts to end the affair ended in blood

December 26 1825 gathered thousands of rebels on Senatskaya Square in St. Petersburg. Loyal to the government troops were drawn there, but Nikolai did not want blood. The hero of the Patriotic War 3 of the year and the Foreign campaign of 1812-1813, the governor-general of St. Petersburg Mikhail Andreevich Miloradovich was sent to the rebels. He was loved by the soldiers, he won universal respect for his courage, fearlessness. Miloradovich was a general of the Suvorov school - he participated with the great commander in the Italian, Swiss campaigns, distinguished himself in the campaigns of Kutuzov. He participated in dozens of battles and was not injured, although he did not bow to the bullets. The French nicknamed him "Russian Bayard". On this tragic day he is wounded twice, one wound will be fatal: Obolensky will hit him with a bayonet, and Kakhovsky will shoot him in the back, mortally wounding the hero of the empire. When the doctors take out a bullet that pierces his lungs, he will ask her to see it and, seeing that it is a pistol, he will be very happy to cry out: “Oh, thank God! This bullet is not a soldier! Now I am completely happy! ”

However, even after this tragedy, the murder of the hero of Russia, the emperor tries again to do without blood. He is directing another negotiator. However, the king’s next truce, a French aristocrat who faithfully served Russia, Colonel Stürler, was shot dead by Kakhovsky. The third herald of the world - Grand Duke Mikhail Pavlovich, brother of the emperor, was also nearly killed by the Decembrists. Parliamentarians rescued the sailors of the Guards crew, who took weapon, outraged by the assassination attempt of an unarmed peace envoy.

After that, the emperor had no choice. The story included the words of Adjutant General Count Toll: "Your Majesty, order us to clear the square with a canister or abdicate the throne." Nikolai ordered to roll out the guns and open fire. The first volley was given over the people, so that the rebels would have a chance to obey. But the rebels began to prepare for the bayonet attack, the second volley dispels the Decembrists. Mutiny is suppressed.

The head of the Russian Empire, Nikolai, who was recorded in history as Palkin, showed mercy and philanthropy. In any European country for such a rebellion, many hundreds or thousands of people would be executed in the most cruel way so that others would not be discouraged. Would reveal all the underground, many have lost their posts. In Russia, everything was different: from 579 people arrested in the case of the Decembrists, almost 300 were acquitted. Only the leaders (and not all) were executed and the murderer - Pestel, Muravyev-Apostol, Ryleev, Bestuzhev-Ryumin, Kakhovsky. 88 people were sent to penal servitude, 18 to settle, 15 demoted to the soldiers. Corporal punishment was applied to the insurgent soldiers, they were sent to the Caucasus. The "dictator" of the rebels, Prince Trubetskoy, did not appear at all on Senate Square, was frightened, and stayed at the Austrian ambassador, where he was tied up. At first he denied everything, then he confessed and asked for forgiveness from the sovereign. And Nicholas I forgave him, the “tyrants” humane in our country, however, ruled.

Conclusion

It is clear that if Nicholas showed weakness and such people seized power, the French Revolution and its consequences could become “flowers”. As in France, there would immediately be a split into moderates and radicals (Jacobins). The struggle began within the movement of the Decembrists, which exacerbated the general unrest in the country. The Decembrists wanted to seize power, having a real "mess" of the most diverse ideas in their heads. There was simply no clear and coordinated follow-up program. In this regard, the conspiracy nobles were very much like the Februarylists in 1917 and modern liberals.

Unfortunately, in 1917, the situation was different, and the Februarylists seized power. The result was very sad: a bloody civil war, chaos and blood, a ruined economy, a lost war, the loss of vast territories, millions of dead and fleeing the country, crippled destinies of tens of millions of people. Only a new project - the Soviet one - saved the Russian civilization and statehood.

Nikita Muravyov and his associates planned to establish a limited monarchy in Russia. Another conspirator leader, Pavel Pestel, stood firmly behind the republic. And he spoke not only for the destruction of the institution of autocracy itself, but also for the total extermination of the entire imperial family. For the transition period they planned to establish a dictatorship. Pestel believed that at that time “merciless severity” was necessary against all troublemakers. This led to confusion, internal opposition. It is necessary to take into account the fact that any distemper in Russia led to external intervention.

The uprising of the Decembrists is the first major attempt at "perestroika" of Russia in the Western way, which led to unrest, civil war and intervention by external forces, dreaming of dismembering Russian civilization into parts and "devour" them, and not the revolt of the "knights of freedom" who dream of the ideal device of Russia.
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  1. Igor39
    Igor39 28 December 2015 07: 12
    -16 qualifying.
    Well, maybe so, but since such humanists were in power, it was necessary to carry out reforms, give people freedom, and then Siberia and the Far East would be settled and mastered much more, but apparently the ruling dynasty liked to have slaves.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 28 December 2015 07: 25
      31
      Quote: Igor39
      ... apparently the ruling dynasty liked having slaves ...

      And the Decembrists were not going to get up for the plow.
      They proposed another form of exploitation, which gave slaves the illusion of freedom. In fact, it was proposed to drive the peasants from the land and the bar, at their discretion, would take those they wanted, and the rest of the "ballast" would be doomed to starvation - optimization according to the present, or whatever the liberals of the 90s said, they did not fit into market economy.
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 28 December 2015 09: 37
        +7
        No one was going to drive anyone out of the land, do not talk nonsense, it is not beneficial to anyone that the land is empty and not cultivated, neither for the peasant nor the landowner. Read Pestel, who offered to give the peasants half of the land, which is much more than they were actually given in 1861. at the abolition of serfdom. Or, according to the current "historians", the abolition of serfdom is also a sabotage of the West, Freemasons and liberals against Russia? The author of the article does not understand the elementary thing that the Decembrists proposed to switch from feudalism to capitalism, which is definitely more progressive. Or, according to the author, Russia in the 19th century should have immediately abandoned feudalism to socialism, and then communism was not far off? Imagine, as history has shown, we tried to do it 100 years later, in 1917, but it didn't work out.
        1. Beaver
          Beaver 28 December 2015 09: 52
          19
          Quote: Nikolai K
          do not talk nonsense, it is not beneficial to anyone that the land is empty and not cultivated

          What about sheep breeding in Scotland?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Nikolay K
            Nikolay K 28 December 2015 14: 04
            +2
            Let's not give abstract examples of sheep and the development of capitalism in Britain, but a concrete analogous event in our history - the abolition of serfdom in 1861. Given that this reform was ill-conceived and was carried out through one place, tell us how many millions of "expelled from the land" of the peasants died of hunger at that time, otherwise I somehow forgot.
            1. Talgat
              Talgat 28 December 2015 21: 10
              +6
              "they were far from the people" these Decembrists

              Real liberators - they wanted a "crunch of a French roll" "champagne wine"

              They would sow troubles - they would destroy the state - nobody would feel good from this

              Tsarist Russia had its own progressive rhythm of development - evolutionary rather than revolutionary

              Yes, there were flaws and contradictions - which helped the same liberals to destroy it later in 1917 - but nevertheless the Central Democratic Republic was a good place to live and one of the best (after the USSR) moments of the heyday of Eurasia - and I think how the successor bypassed the Golden Horde and the Atilla Huns
              1. Morrrow
                Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 20
                -3
                The empire is rotten from head to toe. The Golden Horde and the Huns gave nothing but cruelty and genocide (including to the Russian people) to the world
            2. Glafira
              Glafira 28 December 2015 23: 28
              +4
              There was just a discussion at VO ... About the famine and famine in general. Let me remind Nikolai K: after the reforms of 1861 in Russia, hunger was a constant occurrence, repeating itself after 8-10 years, while pre-reform Russia did not know hunger at all, which Western travelers wrote with envy.

              The cannibalistic expression "We will not eat, but we will take out" belongs to the Minister of Finance of the government of Alexander III, Vyshnegradsky. This was called "hungry exports." The export continued even when, as a result of a poor harvest, the net per capita tax was about 14 poods, while the critical level of hunger for Russia was 19,2 poods. Between 1891 and 92, over 30 million people went hungry. The canteens opened by the Red Cross fed up to 1,5 million people. According to the official sharply underestimated data, 400 thousand people died then, modern sources believe that more than half a million people died, taking into account the poor registration of foreigners, the mortality rate can be significantly higher.
              Only at the beginning of the 20th century from hunger !!! 8-10 million people died in Russia.
              Writer Vladimir Korolenko:
              “Now (1906–7), in starving areas, fathers sell their daughters to merchants of live goods. The progress of Russian hunger is obvious. ”
              In general, serfdom is just as colored by tales as the valiant guardians of the people - the Decembrists.
              It was just the opposite.
              Decembrists are the enemies of Russia.
              And serfdom was a good for the country, not a disaster.
              You are not judged by the killer doctors about all medicine .. And the institute of serfdom is judged by Saltychikha.
              Perhaps, nevertheless, the criterion for the failure of another democracy is the starvation of tens of millions of peasants?
              Russia has become one of the main suppliers of bread in the European market long before the abolition of serfdom. Because it was precisely the landlords' households that provided marketable bread.
              A peasant farm in Russia- NOT FOR GOOD! It can’t give anything to the market. You can only take away, dooming the peasants to hunger.
              That corrected only 1917 .... for the period until 1991go.
              1. Sweles
                Sweles 29 December 2015 00: 39
                +2
                Quote: Glafira
                Decembrists are the enemies of Russia.
                And serfdom was a good for the country, not a disaster.
                You are not judged by the killer doctors about all medicine .. And the institute of serfdom is judged by Saltychikha.
                Perhaps, nevertheless, the criterion for the failure of another democracy is the starvation of tens of millions of peasants?


                you have a vague idea of ​​slavery, you can humiliate a person, you can be beaten, you can commit any violence, you can be sold, you can be forbidden to do what a person wants and be forced to do what he does not want,
                "good" say? If only you would be a slave to the landlord tyrant to fulfill his sacred right of the first wedding night, then I would see how you would talk about the good.
                Well, your maxims about the "state good" are also ignorant, slaves can never create production relations more progressive than under capitalism, therefore a state like Romanov's Russia has always been a lagging state ...
                1. Glafira
                  Glafira 29 December 2015 01: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: Sveles
                  you have a vague idea of ​​slavery

                  I have a reasonable assumption that you, too, are not a direct participant in the events under discussion. I draw your attention to the fact that in the textbook that you quote, the Decembrists were popular defenders, and this is how the horrors of slavery are described. Why, then, do you disagree with only one of the two opposing opinions, and do not resent the Decembrists?
                  You reason based on your own ideas about the relationship of people. In these relationships, it’s normal to mock those who are in your power. Parents - over the child, the teacher - over the student, the doctor - over the patient. And yes, the landowner is above the peasant. Each of us can lead such examples from a personal biography (about doctors / teachers / army). However, THIS IS NOT NORMAL !!! Especially for an Orthodox person with whom our ancestors were on both sides of the barricade. And there are always scumbags. And in pre-reform Russia, and in post-reform, and in Soviet .. And in a ....
                  And it’s disgusting to fulfill the whims of a tyrant at any time - even now in Kushchevka, even earlier ... in your maxim. Let me also note that tyranny about the events in Kushchevka is an affectionate word. Now it will be more frostbitten than 200 years ago And their fantasies .... brighter.
                  And it makes sense to compare phenomena ONLY ON NUMERICAL INDICATORS!
                  "production relations are more progressive" is nonsense, since everyone understands the term "progress" as best he can.
                  I believe that progress is when there is no hunger and no deaths of the hungry (and in the long term - there are fewer diseases, citizens live longer and longer). And YOU - that someone managed to sniff without looking at the millions of dying.
                  By the way, serfdom was very recent. My grandmother's grandmother was a serf. "Barin" sounded in great respect in my grandmother's stories.
                  Firstly, the mode of operation is as follows:
                  3 days for the gentleman, 3 days for yourself, a day for God.
                  Secondly, for all the twentieth holidays-- gifts.
                  Thirdly, a doctor’s call and all kinds of medicine (yes, it’s medicine) - through the master.
                  Fourth, the master was an educated man, he himself got acquainted with the latest agricultural technology and tried to introduce them. In peasant farms, too.
                  It was also in the fifth and tenths ...
                  But about the horrors from the textbook family traditions are not a word .....
                  1. Sweles
                    Sweles 29 December 2015 09: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Glafira
                    . I draw your attention to the fact that in the textbook that you are quoting, the Decembrists were defenders of the people, and this is how the horrors of slavery are described.


                    I do not quote textbooks; in my third post I quoted a participant from Topvo about Alexander 3.
                    Quote: Glafira
                    You reason based on your own ideas about the relationship of people.


                    it’s hard for me to imagine the realities of slavery now, however sometimes different examples of depriving people of their rights and will fall into the information space and this picture does not add points to slavery.
                    Quote: Glafira
                    And it makes sense to compare phenomena ONLY ON NUMERICAL INDICATORS!
                    "production relations are more progressive" is nonsense, since everyone understands the term "progress" as best he can.


                    everything has long been compared both on slavery-feudalism and on capitalism hundreds of works of philosophers, economists, and historians have long been written. And progress is a very tangible word, for example, in order to plow a field, a peasant used horses or oxen, under capitalism they began to use tractors, under feudalism the peasant crops suffered from weeds, and under capitalism they began to use herbicides and crops grew several times. progress is called that is ADVANTAGE.
                    As for the advantage of feudal production relations in relation to slavery, everything is easy to understand, and moreover, from school part of the time the peasant works for himself, part for the feudal lord, it is quite clear that the peasant will work better when he works partly for himself.

                    Quote: Glafira
                    Firstly, the mode of operation is as follows:
                    3 days for the gentleman, 3 days for yourself, a day for God.

                    Well, this is still a very advanced master got caught, but he could take EVERYTHING and leave only for a hungry existence, this is his right. Moreover, examples of the cruel BARSHCHA can be found anywhere in the same Nekrasov in poetry or in Pushkin Dubrovsky, when "the attitude towards dogs was better than towards people", then the Russian rebellion is senseless and merciless and peasant escapes to the Don, but there is no issue from the Don ...
                    1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
                      Uncle VasyaSayapin 29 December 2015 21: 28
                      0
                      The landlord economy of the master was a little more efficient than the farms of the peasants, if only because with the same technologies there was no stupor.
                      Agricultural cooperatives - collective farms were even a little more effective, because it was possible to promote new technologies in agriculture at the state level, which is faster.
                      There was no famine under serfdom, because there were fewer people with the same sown area.
                      If the Decembrists were developing industry along with the abolition of serfdom, Russia would have developed at about the same time as Germany and by the end of the century would have been a powerful state that at the beginning of the 20th century would have been able to capture and retain northern and western China, in which there was a small population and a lot of agricultural land, which would further strengthen the country.
                      If the reforms had occurred half a century earlier, then the development of industry began before the demographic explosion and the problem of hunger would most likely have been overcome. But the program is one thing, life is another. And the Romanovs enslaved the people and pro ** ali country. To hell with the Romanovs.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                2. kalibr
                  kalibr 29 December 2015 08: 29
                  +1
                  Totally agree with you. Decembrists - people of their time, who did not know much. But they were precisely against slavery. Somehow we agree that the feudal knight with the right of the first night was a blessing for the peasants - he fertilized their women with their healthy seeds, fed them in hunger (not always), allowed them to hide in the castle. The right is the father of my own and only! But somehow it all collapsed! And you can not go to extremes. In the Soviet Union - Decembrists are heroes. In the Russian Federation - enemies! Ownership has changed, yes, valuations have changed! Isn't it strange?
                  1. Sweles
                    Sweles 29 December 2015 09: 56
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Ownership has changed, yes, valuations have changed! Isn't it strange?


                    when there is a change in the principles themselves, the views on the opposite, this means that truth and false, no more no less, will change places, and a lie will never be a blessing either to a person or to humanity, relations built on lies lead to conflict and the destruction of relations.
                    1. palm
                      palm 4 January 2016 22: 05
                      0
                      essentially correct thought, but the wording ...
                      Quote: Sveles
                      changing the principles themselves, the views on the opposite
                      .....
              2. Morrrow
                Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 21
                -1
                Do you want to become a serf?
        2. bober1982
          bober1982 28 December 2015 09: 55
          15
          ".... the author of the article does not understand the elementary thing that the Decembrists proposed to switch from feudalism to capitalism, which is definitely more progressive"
          To put it mildly, your statement is very controversial. These are the Decembrists who had little knowledge of feudalism, much less capitalism, they had no idea about state-building.
          If you read Pestel (to which you refer), the most rabid of the Decembrists, then the punishment that he received is fair.
          1. knn54
            knn54 28 December 2015 13: 47
            16
            -bober1982: if you read Pestel ...
            According to the memoirs (I do not remember whom) Pestel refused the role of "Russian Washington". He certainly wanted to be a "Russian Cromwell" or "Russian Robespierre." And how the Independents and the Jacobins did it. I think. everyone knows.
            The KISS circle of these revolutionaries. They are terribly far from the people ...
            Lenin, (without a second thought) gave an EXCLUSIVE characterization to these conspirators.
            -But their business is not lost. The Decembrists woke Herzen.
            Another Anglophile whose pro-Western newspaper Bell was funded by Rothschild.
            And then February1917 ...
            1. Morrrow
              Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 25
              0
              And what wrong did Robespierre do?
        3. Boris55
          Boris55 28 December 2015 11: 18
          +5
          Quote: Nikolai K
          Nobody was going to kick anyone off the ground ...

          How did the parasites have the right to land and when did they grab it?



          Quote: Nikolai K
          ... the Decembrists proposed a transition from feudalism to capitalism ...

          That is, to extract more profit, it was proposed to move to a new stage of operation.
          And where is freedom, equality, fraternity?

          Quote: Nikolai K
          ... as history has shown, we tried to do this in 100 years, in 1917 ...

          Glory to Stalin that thwarted their plans!
          And if then the dreams of the Decembrists came true, then we would now, with the geyropa, discuss gay marriage ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Nikolay K
            Nikolay K 28 December 2015 14: 36
            -2
            "Where did the parasites get the right to land and when did they grab it?"

            Study the history of the emergence of property rights as an institution. I will briefly tell you that the one who was stronger was originally right. And then, with the advent of the state and the system of law, uniform rules for the game were established for everyone under the name Law. But the force of law and the power of power still conflict, in our state it seems that power is deciding more and more. Stalin wanted and forcibly took the land from the peasants and drove everyone into collective farms, and again, as under feudalism, the land ceased to belong to the one who worked on it.

            "That is, in order to extract more profit, it was proposed to move to a new stage of operation.
            And where is freedom, equality, brotherhood? "

            This is not about profit, but about the efficiency of the economic formation. Under capitalism, humanity can produce more product, which means it can develop faster. For information, you can raise the statistics and see that in the 19th and early 20th centuries (until 1914), Russia experienced very high rates of natural population growth, because the economy was growing. As for the so-called "exploitation", under capitalism it is economic, while under feudalism it is also personal. And it was about personal freedom, economic equality and brotherhood of different estates, if you don't understand.


            "Glory to Stalin for foiling their plans!
            And if then the dreams of the Decembrists came true, then we would now, together with the gayrope, discuss same-sex marriages ... "

            Stalin was just the continuation of the cause of Lenin, which, as we recall, was awakened by Herzen and the Decembrists. Stalin, just like the Decembrists, despite the beautiful slogans about equality and freedom, did not give land to the peasants. The main difference between Stalin and the Decembrists is that the latter wanted the country to move from feudalism to capitalism more promising at that time, and Stalin, on the contrary, showed remarkable heroism and returned the state from capitalism back to feudalism, only changing the form of government. If the country had the hereditary rule of the monarch, whose representatives were nobles and other landowners, then under the supposedly Soviet government, the state was ruled by a party caste that independently took all decisions for the people, including those who disposed of the land, much like the Mamelukes in Egypt in some some 13 century. As the events of the 20 century showed, feudalism, even with a Stalinist face, is still economically inferior to capitalism, which is precisely why the USSR fell apart.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 28 December 2015 16: 29
              +3
              Quote: Nikolai K
              Study the history of the emergence of property rights as an institution ...

              All laws to this day are based on Roman law, which was invented by the slave owners of ancient Rome in order to legitimize their lawlessness and give slaves the appearance of legality. I hope you will not argue that the laws were invented by slaves.

              When in Russia "the power of the strong" prevailed over the power of the majority. In the 10th century, a slave concept was introduced in Russia, and the spirit of resistance was broken. After that, you can do whatever you want with the people.

              Quote: Nikolai K
              This is not about profit, but about the effectiveness of the economic formation.

              Is the income of the capitalists higher than the landlords? Higher. Is the exploitation of workers higher than the peasants? Above, the workers work every day - in the winter and in the summer, the peasant - mainly in the summer. There would be no profit - there would be no capitalism.

              Quote: Nikolai K
              As the events of the 20 century showed, feudalism, even with a Stalinist face, is still economically inferior to capitalism,

              In terms of economic power and the average standard of living (despite the bloody war that the United States profited from), the Stalinist USSR was on equal terms with the United States, if not higher. By the number of millionaires and the poor - the US was ahead of the USSR. The destruction of the USSR began with the advent of the underelicted Trotskyist Khrushchev. Stalin was not able to transfer power to the Soviets - the resistance of the party nomenclature was too great.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Nikolay K
                Nikolay K 28 December 2015 20: 22
                -4
                "All laws to this day are based on Roman law, which was invented by the slave owners of ancient Rome in order to legitimize their lawlessness and give the slaves a semblance of legality. I hope you will not argue that the slaves invented the laws."
                In ancient Greece, law appeared earlier than in Rome and Athens, for example, there were written laws. But in Athens there was a democratic republic, you will not say otherwise? And in Russia there was, for example, the Russian truth, in the complete absence of slave owners. The law is based on customs and norms of behavior, including moral standards. Later, with the advent of the state, these norms were systematized, formalized and structured. As you see, even in states where everyone is equal, the law continues to exist and develop and, believe me, the law will exist under socialism, communism and any other isism, because as long as there is order, there is law.

                "Is the exploitation of the workers higher than the peasants? Higher, the workers work every day - in winter and summer, the peasant mainly in the summer."

                I would like you to work one summer as peasants of the 19th century, and then beat your thumbs in winter, that would be beauty. I can’t compare whose work is more difficult, a peasant or a worker, but somehow I don’t remember that the workers dreamed of returning to “light” rural work. But the flow of peasants to the city did not dry out. They say that a person is looking for where it is better. ... ... Your assumption is similar to the assertion that now in the provinces people are fattening, working only for hours, and poor Muscovites live poorly, they have to spend a lot of time on the road, stay on processing. That's right, just explain why people are pouring into Moscow and not back?

                "If there were no profit, there would be no capitalism."

                If grandmother had eggs. . .

                "The Stalinist USSR in terms of economic power and average standard of living (despite the bloody war on which the United States profited from) was on par with the United States, if not higher. In terms of the number of millionaires and beggars, the United States was ahead of the USSR."

                Check out the statistics. After the Second World War, all of Europe, East Asia and the USSR lay in ruins. It was thanks to the war that the United States began to produce half of the world's GDP and became a superpower. USSR GDP was several times smaller than the US. Comparison of the income level of a citizen of the USSR and the USA in general looks like a mockery. Yes, for three post-war years we had people where, wherever, they continued to eat quinoa and there was a famine, despite the fact that, by order of Comrade Stalin, a million tons of grain was exported to help eastern Germany at the same time.

                "Stalin failed to transfer power to the Soviets - the resistance of the party nomenklatura was too great."

                That's right, the power in the country did not remain with the people, but with the party nomenclature. I think that during the post-war years, Stalin did not have real political competitors and there was full support of the people, so maybe Stalin simply did not want to transfer this power?
                1. Dam
                  Dam 28 December 2015 23: 57
                  0
                  Athens was an oligocratic republic.
          3. Morrrow
            Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 26
            -1
            And what is wrong? There would be no slavery, everyone would be equal before the law. The Civil Code has been functioning successfully.
        4. Dam
          Dam 28 December 2015 23: 53
          +3
          They didn’t offer anything. Read the story. They did not have clear plans for the reorganization and government of the country. The same Pestel saw himself Cromwell. Yes, such revolutionaries always wanted the people. Regular guerrilla revolt. By the way, the soldiers deceived by them, these villains were thrown under artillery fire. There was nothing bright and progressive in the rebellion.
          1. Morrrow
            Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 27
            -1
            But in autocracy and feudalism?
      2. Igor39
        Igor39 28 December 2015 09: 37
        +5
        "This is what the landowners of the Tula province themselves, who know the life of the peasants very well, told us:" In the years of famine, the situation of the peasant and his family is terrible. He eats all kinds of nasty things. Acorns, tree bark, marsh grass, straw - everything goes into food. He almost gets poisoned, terrible diseases appear. No one even knows this because they will not dare to write or talk about it loudly, and how many people look into the peasant's shacks? And it’s not a secret that years of hunger are not rare, they, on the contrary, appear periodically. "

        Alexander I tried to solve the peasant question again in 1818. He even approved the draft of A. Arakcheev and the Minister of Finance D. Guriev on the gradual liquidation of serfdom by redeeming the landlord peasants from their allotments of the treasury. But this project was not practically realized (with the exception of the provision in 1816-1819 of personal freedom to the peasants of the Baltic states, but without land).
        By 375, 1825 thousand state peasants were in military settlements (1/3 of the Russian army), of which a separate corps was formed under the command of Arakcheev — the peasants served and worked at the same time, discipline was strict, punishments were numerous.

        And even now managers and officials think the people for slaves, look what even "Man and the Law" and the activists of "ONF" are doing and everything will become clear.
        1. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 28 December 2015 09: 45
          +3
          In the famine, the situation of the peasants is always terrible, regardless of who then ruled the country. Read the description of the famine in the USSR at the end of the 20's and the beginning of the 30's, you won’t notice much difference.
          1. Cobra77
            Cobra77 28 December 2015 20: 48
            0
            Yes, yes, tell me more about the Holodomor in the USSR. And then the topic is not disclosed. He can still study the history of his country, what was actually there in those years in the USSR, what the leadership did, what happened. And how "terrible" it was on the collective farms.
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 28 December 2015 16: 20
          -4
          Quote: Igor39
          "In the years of famine, the situation of the peasant and his family is terrible

          Sorry, I don't understand the meaning of "hungry years"
          Hungry years can be when food is forcibly confiscated from the population, be it a landowner or a commissar, corvee or surplus appropriation. Otherwise, in the river and in the forest, you can collect so much edible that you can still sell it. For a reason, Russia fed half of Europe with bread. there were heaps of free land in Siberia, just maybe it was "crammed" with some kind of Chubais, waiting for the opportunity to sell it profitably.
          1. Glafira
            Glafira 29 December 2015 00: 45
            +4
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Sorry, I don't understand the meaning of "hungry years"
            Hunger years can be when food is forcibly taken from the population ...

            The opinion of a true city dweller. Complete misunderstanding of the village. This is so if the food in the pantry materializes with the frequency of salary - the set amount at a certain time. However, even now in the countryside there are strong fluctuations in the crop from the weather. And before the revolution ..
            Even such a non-authoritative source as Wikipedia, and that one in the course "The backwardness of agriculture, its complete dependence on natural conditions served as the cause of frequent crop failures, mass death of livestock; in lean years, famine covered millions of peasant farms."
        3. Morrrow
          Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 28
          -1
          In Europe, this issue has been successfully resolved. I see no problems in the program of Muravyov, Trubetskoy and Pestel.
      3. Skobelev
        Skobelev 28 December 2015 19: 47
        -5
        The "Decembrists" were people from the privileged strata of Russia, but they saw how people lived in Europe. They understood that the Russian people, who defeated and expelled from Russia the invincible army of Napoleon, for the most part remained slaves, who were even sold. They knew that the Russian soldiers who won the war against the Napoleonic army served 25 years, unlike the soldiers of Napoleon's army. They saw that after the war nothing had changed for the better for the Russian people and the Russian soldier, and therefore they could not remain silent and with their speech protested against the existing situation in Russia. Honor and glory to them the first of the privileged strata of Russia, who openly said no to the existing situation in Russia.
        1. Cobra77
          Cobra77 28 December 2015 20: 55
          +4
          What did they see from the carriage window? Maybe you should read about the peasants in France at that time to compare? And then it turns out here Mordor, and there are elves. Lenin was completely right about them. Crunching a French bun and dancing at balls, it is difficult to understand something about the peasants and their life, their needs. That is why there was an October revolution after the February one. Because in February there were the same "Decembrists", infantile and irresponsible. But the Bolsheviks perfectly understood what the people needed.
    2. qwert
      qwert 28 December 2015 07: 30
      12
      Well, whatever the Decembrists were guided by, and whatever they wanted ... Here is a statement: "The Decembrists, hiding behind slogans that were quite humane and understandable to most, objectively worked for the then" world community "(West) and first of all obeyed the Masonic lodges France. In fact, these were the forerunners of the "Februaryists" of 1917, who destroyed the Russian Empire. " nothing subsequently proved, except that the Decembrists were in France, this is too much.
      You can not do it this way. For such an accusation, serious evidence is needed. And so the Jewish-Masons can, if desired, be "found" everywhere and in everything that has been done often and by many in the history of Russia, but nothing positive has yielded
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 28 December 2015 07: 45
        20
        Well, whatever the Decembrists would be guided by, and whatever they want ...

        They began their revolution with the murder of MILORADOVICH .... after that I sharply lost all interest in the Decembrists ...

        Banal killers ... hiding behind beautiful phrases about justice ...

        As they say the revolution is conceived by romantics. The zealots carry it out and the bastards take advantage of it ....
        here is the alignment from the same opera.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 28 December 2015 08: 29
          +3
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          ... romantics conceive a revolution; fanatics carry it out and the bastards take advantage of it ...

          Let me disagree with this widespread liberal slogan.

          "The romantics are thinking about the revolution" - is the Anglo-Saxons a romantic?
          "carried out by fanatics" are Lenin and Trotsky fanatics?
          "scoundrels use its fruits" - is Stalin the bastard?

          From the point of view of the liberals, no doubt.

          Regarding Ukraine:
          Nuland - romantic
          Poroshenko is a fanatic
          Who will take advantage? - it is not clear yet, the process is going on.

          About the bourgeois coup of the 90's, figure out who is who.
          (I hope you don’t think Putin is a bastard)
          1. kit_bellew
            kit_bellew 28 December 2015 14: 42
            +2
            Quote: Boris55
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            ... romantics conceive a revolution; fanatics carry it out and the bastards take advantage of it ...

            Let me disagree with this widespread liberal slogan.



            This liberal "slogan" belongs to Otto von Bismarck. He is still a liberal :)) And in mind he most likely meant, like most of his contemporaries, a specific French Revolution. So what about Stalin and Trotsky - it's you, my friend :)
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 28 December 2015 16: 51
              0
              Quote: kit_bellew
              This liberal "slogan" belongs to Otto von Bismarck

              Bismarck may have spoken about France, but here Same lech - definitely not about her.
            2. Morrrow
              Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 31
              0
              Bismarck himself used the creations of this revolution, starting with the Civil Code, ending with Napoleon's campaigns.
          2. palm
            palm 28 December 2015 20: 02
            -3
            Obviously, Stalin in the view of some straight white fluffy darling. and Putin in fact professes moderate national Bolshevism.
        2. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 28 December 2015 09: 45
          -8
          The Bolsheviks also shot or ousted many honored Russian generals from the country. Has this changed your attitude towards them?
          1. Cobra77
            Cobra77 28 December 2015 21: 03
            0
            They shot exclusively those who fought against the Bolsheviks. And it is deserved. Maybe you remember, for example, who was Kolchak? And his deeds in the civil war? It was also well-deserved ... More Monerheim, here. About what happened in Vyborg they themselves will find when his army of white whales took.
        3. Rastas
          Rastas 28 December 2015 13: 35
          -4
          Of course, now it’s very bold to tarnish the memory of the fallen heroes of 1825. It is difficult for people like you to understand how people can put public interests above personal, selfish ones. We are far from them, to their memory. The Decembrists are the heroes of their country, undeservedly spat upon and slandered. Yes, they had many shortcomings, but they were pioneers, the first revolutionaries, therefore, as Karamzin said, people should be judged by the laws and customs of the time in which they lived. And never did Soviet history exalt them, but only gave them their due.

          Our mournful work will not be lost,
          From the spark ignite the flame
          And enlightened our people
          Will gather under the holy banner.

          We will chain the swords
          And the flame again ignite freedom!
          She will attack the kings
          And the nations will joyfully breathe!

          A. Odoevsky - to Pushkin.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Aleksander
            Aleksander 28 December 2015 21: 50
            +3
            Quote: Rastas
            The Decembrists are the heroes of their country, undeservedly spat upon and slandered. it is necessary to judge according to the laws and mores of the time in which they lived


            Decembrists, from the point of view of legislation then in force,state criminals and terrorists (from today's point of view)who violated him in everything. According to this legislation, were subject to the death penalty. Unfortunately, Nikolai showed gentleness, replacing many with hard labor.
            From the point of view of morals, these criminals were frank scoundrels , treacherously substituting the lower ranks deceived by them and not understanding anything under buckshot and bullets.
            Quote: Rastas
            the heroes of their country, undeservedly spat upon and slandered
            Basayev and Raduev are the same "heroes" - fighters and terrorists.
            1. Rastas
              Rastas 28 December 2015 22: 01
              -5
              What is the current legislation? Nicholas, none of the Decembrists swore allegiance, so they did not violate any written law. Tsars are not all of Russia. As Saltykov-Shchedrin said, "in Russia they tend to confuse the concepts of Fatherland and Your Excellency." Moreover, the rebellion on Senate Square took place, as you know, under the slogan "Constitution and Constantine", and most of the rank and file participants, not only soldiers, but also officers, sincerely believed that by entering the square, they were demonstrating their loyalty to the legitimate emperor Constantine I , from the oath to which they want to force them to refuse. The leaders of the rebellion, of course, had other goals, but this objectively existed. So the opuses are complete nonsense.
              1. Pissarro
                Pissarro 29 December 2015 07: 38
                +6
                That is, putting a bullet in General Miloradovich is not a violation of the law? Nobody called them to the oath and did not punish them, they hung those five for the most banal criminal offense.
                Muravyov hit the commander of his regiment with a bayonet in the stomach. He deliberately led his deceived soldiers into the procession, resulting in mass casualties
                Kakhovsky meanly killed General Miloradovich and Colonel Sturler with a pistol
                Ryleyev gave direct order to Kakhovsky to kill Nikolai

                Pestel was negotiating with the Polish rebels about joint actions for recognizing the independence of Poland and transferring Lithuania, Volyn, and Little Russia to it in payment
                Bestuzhev is also replaced in negotiations with the Poles and the uprising of the Chernihiv regiment with banal murders and robberies

                All honestly deserve to be executed under any laws of any country.
                1. Morrrow
                  Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 35
                  -2
                  There was no country. There was a rotten autocratic power with a constant deficit of the state budget and backward industry.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Aleksander
                Aleksander 29 December 2015 10: 52
                +3
                Quote: Rastas
                What legislation is this?

                Military legislation and, accordingly, and state. Troops came to the square, obliged to carry out the ORDERS of the commanders, and not to "demonstrate" their sympathies and antipathies. Therefore, they automatically became criminals to be destroyed.
                Quote: Rastas
                Moreover, the rebellion on Senate Square took place, as you know, under the slogan “Constitution and Constantine”,

                Why juggle? The slogan was: "For Constantine and his wife The Constitution! "-" The wife of the Constitution "was understandable to the soldiers, in contrast to the concept of the constitution. The soldiers were simply substituted" in the dark "by criminals -" Decembists "- and this is one of their main crimes ...
            2. Morrrow
              Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 32
              -1
              And whom did they blow up? Do not write nonsense. Your autocracy is ridiculous and wretched, it is rotten. Read at least Tarle about the Crimean War.
      2. venaya
        venaya 28 December 2015 07: 53
        18
        Quote: qwert
        For such an accusation, serious evidence is needed.

        Try to read "Decree No. 1" of the Provisional Government, signed by its first Prime Minister, Prince Lvov, in March 1917. This is almost a copy of the requirements of the Decembrists in 1925. The connection between these events is not at all surprising, but this "Decree No. 1" practically destroyed both the state of the Russian Empire and the subsequent destruction of almost a quarter of its population. It is a pity that these documents are very, very rarely published, otherwise such questions would not have arisen in principle.
      3. avt
        avt 28 December 2015 09: 47
        12
        Quote: qwert
        . For such an accusation, serious evidence is needed.

        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        They began their revolution with the murder of MILORADOVICH ...

        Only for the assassination of a military general, who, moreover, went to them almost as a parliamentarian, did this bastard deserve a gallows.
        Quote: qwert
        ... And so the Jewish-Masons can, if desired, be "found" everywhere and in everything that has been done often and by many in the history of Russia, but nothing positive has yielded

        laughing fool Yes, they themselves did not particularly hide anything, and even flaunted their "secret societies". Look and find a little more than "The Decembrists woke Herzen", and he, asleep, hit the "Bell". Well, who bothered that the child was sleeping? Read Pestel's thoughts about the necessary for building, egalite, frontalite, igalite "structure" Higher Deanery ", so you will see Beria as a kindergarten teacher.
        Quote: Boris55
        Regarding Ukraine:
        Nuland - romantic

        Well, let's put quite a Trotskyist
        Quote: Boris55
        Poroshenko is a fanatic

        laughing A good fanatic has pacified his personal capital ...... well, if only a fanatic of a gorilka ..... but then you just had to write - a wino.
        1. Morrrow
          Morrrow 30 December 2015 16: 36
          +1
          Miloradovich was a near-witted man. This was noted by all colleagues.
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 1 January 2016 19: 35
            0
            Quote: Morrrow
            Miloradovich was a near-witted man. This was noted by all colleagues.

            However, he was not afraid to go to the rebels. In general, the Decembrists apparently had little knowledge of the victims of the French revolution. And apparently they were fascinated by Napoleon. By the way, there was a monarchy in France at the time of the uprising, then there was a period of upheavals and only by 1870 what had come to the present day
      4. Beaver
        Beaver 28 December 2015 09: 50
        +6
        Quote: qwert
        serious evidence needed

        You will be in Irkutsk in the Volkonsky house-museum, pay attention to the interior details.
      5. tasha
        tasha 28 December 2015 10: 16
        0
        Quote: qwert
        You can not do it this way. For such an accusation, serious evidence is needed.


        I support. How can we judge after almost 200 years about what these people wanted, what they saw around and why they decided to radically change the structure of the state.

        At all times there are supporters of change, leading the rest to a happy life, or driving them into it. Only the concept of happiness is different for everyone, and there is a different price that they are ready to pay for a new life.

        So to record the Decembrists in villains, as well as to erect monuments to them, you need to be very, very careful. Moreover, so much has happened during this time that the Decembrists ’speech appears to be another attempt at a military coup in some banana republic. How many were there?
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 28 December 2015 10: 43
          0
          The performance of the Decembrists does not at all seem to be an attempt at a military coup. It is Catherine II, or Elizaveta Petrovna, who began to reign as a result of the coup, and the trouble of the Decembrists, in my opinion, is that the army was in Europe for a long time as a result of the Napoleonic wars. grabbed all sorts of ideas, absolutely unsuitable and utopian for Russia.
          1. tasha
            tasha 28 December 2015 11: 06
            +2
            He compared the performance of the Decembrists with the attempted military coup of a junta in terms of the extent of the impact on the course of history. In the 19 and 20 centuries, such shocks and revolutions took place in the world ...
    3. Sweles
      Sweles 28 December 2015 10: 43
      +1
      "the collapse of the country", "ties with the West", "destruction of the order" are all just words. Samsonov said about "connections with the West, with Freemasonry", but did not prove it, were there these connections? The destruction of the Romanovs was a justified measure, because this dynasty (Oldenburgs) itself came to power illegally, introduced slavery for the Russian people, for which there is no forgiveness and justification for the Romanovs, and throughout their history, conspiracies, murders and dethrones were for Alexander the parricide gave freedom from serfdom to the Finns and the Poles, but did not give freedom to the Russians - this is the MAIN REASON for the uprising, or one of the main. and only the closest (almost all foreigners) to the throne were its support. This is with regard to the apparent reasons for the uprising, but there are also hidden and carefully concealed reasons for the dissatisfaction of the nobility and the army with the power - this is the TRANSITION OF THE WORLD and the RUSSIAN WORLD by world powers, which the Germans connived or whoever they are - novels. And the redivision of the world took place after the defeat of the RUSSIAN STATE OF THE GREAT TARTARIA from 1775 suppression of the type of "Pugachev revolt". New countries arose - the USA, which inherited vast American territories. Japan and China, India, Egypt, which were under the rule of the Tartary dynasty, were conquered and turned into colonies of Western states. ", which is somehow very similar to the performance of the Decembrists, all of course in favor of the West. The so-called "discovery of Japan" by the Americans in the middle of the 1826th century is doubtful, I think these processes started earlier.
      All this, of course, reached Russian society, as if the Romanovs didn’t protect it from outside information, so Romanov’s tyranny over Russians was the main reason for the noblemen to marry. Not the Pasquilians on the Romanovs wanted to print the Decembrists, but the TRUTH was happening in the world and in Russia.
      If you look at the list of Decembrists, it draws attention to the fact that, in addition to several foreign surnames, all the rest are Russian, and that is, with foreign domination at the highest levels of government? Is it possible then to regard the performance of the Decembrists as a NATIONAL-LIBERAL MOVEMENT? Perhaps yes, the Decembrists saw and felt that something was going wrong in the country and opposed foreign domination, although TI, of course, would never tell about this ...
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 28 December 2015 10: 59
        +3
        Yes, there never was a progressive nobility! About the dynasty of the Oldenburgs! (??? !!!) What does the Romanovs-illegally come to power mean?
        Conspiracies, murders, overthrows are a common occurrence for all reigns, all times and peoples.
        What a great Tartaria!
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 28 December 2015 12: 53
          -3
          Quote: bober1982
          Yes, there never existed a progressive nobility!


          you don’t know history, almost all the best people of Russia are writers, engineers, doctors, military, scientists i.e. all ascetics were nobles ...

          Quote: bober1982
          About the dynasty of the Oldenburgs! (??? !!!) What does it mean the Romanovs illegally came to power?


          what does it mean? and the fact that the Romanovs are not Romanovs, but a Westernizing dynasty from the Germans, there are several versions of the origin of the Romanovs, but even TI says that the Romanov-Zakharyevs were from the western regions of Muscovy. Isn't it strange what happened when the Romanovs came to power? Troubles, riots, wars, uprisings, strange deaths of the Rurikovich? And in the 17th century, the same poisoning of Aleksey Mikhailovich, the split of the church, peasant uprisings, riots, the strange two-kingdom of Peter and Ivan, then the FORCE OF FOREIGNERS FOR LONG CENTURIES at the court and the army, and science, the rewriting of history, the 18th century is the same, and the 19th century is again a folk speech , senseless wars that the Russian people do not need and so on, however, and now the same thing ...
          Quote: bober1982
          Conspiracies, murders, overthrows are a common occurrence for all reigns, all times and peoples.


          no, what was happening during these centuries of Romanov rule in Russia was NEVER NEVER IN ONE COUNTRY. In fact, if you take the boards of any of the rulers of Russia from the 15th century, then ALL GOVERNERS to power either came through a coup or are killed, deposed, or died in strange deaths .Although Alexander 2 is the liberator, freed the peasants from slavery, it would seem a hero, but blown up by the people of Volodymyr, Alexander 3 is a peacemaker, a strange definition for the tsar who waged unsuccessful wars with Turkey, in which Russia seemed to rise, but which again clamped down on freedom and in which other countries abruptly advanced economically, died of alcoholism, but this is generally accepted point of view at that time there were suspicions of poisoning. In what other country of the world did something like that happen?

          Quote: bober1982
          What a great Tartaria!


          there are HUNDREDS of MAPs with Tartaria, as well as many written sources, such as Britannica, the Spanish Encyclopedia, a set of sea flags up to the 19th century with the flags of Tartaria ...
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 28 December 2015 13: 23
            +5
            Of course, I do not agree with you, if you answer in detail, it will take a lot of time.
            But according to Alexander III, it’s hard to resist, so as not to object. Why did he annoy you so much.
            What freedoms did he hold? - throw bombs with impunity. The most Russian Tsar was called the peasant tsar, he was hated, but by some progressive nobility, not the Russian people. He did not die from alcoholism, a lie.
            1. Sweles
              Sweles 28 December 2015 14: 01
              -6
              Quote: bober1982
              o according to Alexander III, it’s hard to resist, so as not to object. Why did he annoy you so much.
              What freedoms did he hold? - throw bombs with impunity. The most Russian Tsar was called the peasant tsar, he was hated, but by some progressive nobility, not the Russian people. He did not die from alcoholism, a lie.


              vladfill December 21, 2015 17:36 ↑
              These reforms, or what? In 1883, a special prison was built for the emperor’s personal enemies on an island in the middle of the Neva in Shlisselburg - the “dry guillotine”. In her casemates, Alexander III imprisoned 56 of the most dangerous people of the people, of whom only nineteen were destined to go free in 1905.
              In 1884, a university charter was introduced that limited university autonomy and placed professors and students under administrative supervision. In 1886, at the insistence of Pobedonostsev, the Higher Women's Courses were closed; in 1887, Delyanov’s circular on “cook children” restricted access to lower classes for the gymnasiums and universities. The school took a decisive roll on the teaching of religious subjects and classical languages. The number of parish schools with which Pobedonostsev sought to replace secular education increased from 4 thousand to 32 thousand with a million students. In the press, after March 1, 1881, the omnipotence of censorship was restored. A series of circulars forbade the publication of anything other than the views of the government on any important issue. The liberal publications Voice and Patriotic Notes, many books of Leo Tolstoy, Emil Zol, Victor Hugo, Guy de Maupassant and almost every third Russian play were banned and the Tsar, who did not read anything from newspapers except for a special extract prepared by the Ministry Internal Affairs, frankly rejoiced at the repressions against the press, accompanying the Minister’s reports on this with litters like “Share this cattle!”, “Very good!”


              the Romanovs, in principle, cannot be "good" for the Russian people, because the Russian people are a people without their own will, a people conquered, with rare exceptions in historical examples - STALIN'S RULE, the rest of the period from Mikhail Romanov, to Nikolashka to ours days this is an EXTERNAL control, through dummies, as it were Russians, but in fact all these rulers are not Russian, take the current government, there are practically no Russians there - all circumcised ...
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 28 December 2015 14: 34
                0
                I started to celebrate the outgoing year, with which I congratulate you too! Happy New Year!
                1. Sweles
                  Sweles 28 December 2015 15: 02
                  -2
                  Quote: bober1982
                  I started to celebrate the outgoing year, with which I congratulate you too! Happy New Year!


                  Is that all you can say? a great future awaits you on this site, they love such smart people here ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Rastas
        Rastas 28 December 2015 19: 34
        -2
        You ask good questions. Yes, only nobody needs them. Why prove something that cannot be proved. All according to the teachings of Dr. Goebbels. The main thing is to blame for something that is unprovable, but sounds effective and relevant, and the hatred of the townsfolk is provided.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Dart2027
      Dart2027 28 December 2015 21: 57
      +4
      Quote: Igor39
      but apparently the ruling dynasty liked to have slaves

      You can wonder how many serfs were released to freedom all kinds of fighters for universal happiness?
  2. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 28 December 2015 07: 17
    +3
    Thank you very much for the article, dear author. There has always been an understatement and inconsistency in this topic.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 28 December 2015 07: 34
    +4
    Among the priority measures: the elimination of censorship, serfdom, recruitment and military settlements, freedom of religion, the equality of all before the law, the transparency of the courts and the introduction of a jury, reducing the term of military service for ordinary people to 15 years.... Almost the Manifesto of Nicholas II in October 1905 ...
  5. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 28 December 2015 07: 41
    +5
    In the main, the Decembrists were right. The abolition of serfdom in the 1825 year would lead to the beginning of Russia's industrial growth by 40 years earlier.
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts 28 December 2015 08: 10
      -5
      There is a modern analogue of this thought. Stalin's enslavement of peasants in the USSR (restriction in the issuance of passports to rural residents) did not allow the industrialization of the USSR in the right time, which manifested itself at the beginning of the Second World War.
      1. ArcanAG
        ArcanAG 28 December 2015 08: 47
        12
        The industrialization of the USSR took place over 10 years! Nowhere in such a short time did it pass - the Russian miracle is called.
        At the beginning of the 30s of the USSR, an agrarian country, at the end - an industrial country. At the same time, the flow of labor from agriculture to construction sites and factories was enormous. What enslavement?

        With passports the opposite is true. The Bolsheviks first canceled their passports in FIG. Without identity cards, a mess began. Passports began to be re-introduced, first of all, where it was especially important, i.e. in cities. In the villages, and so everyone knew each other.
      2. moskowit
        moskowit 28 December 2015 10: 21
        +1
        Read the 1932 Year Passport Act and the next with the 1940 year changes. They are very easy to find. Almost the entire population of the USSR lived without passports ...
    2. VeryBravePiggy
      VeryBravePiggy 28 December 2015 08: 29
      +6
      Yeah, if the country survived the inevitable turmoil, the division of power and the more than likely British intervention (naturally, out of purely humane motives).
      The big ship - a big torpedo. The steeper and stronger the state, the more problems it has (external and internal). And we are generally the biggest and the worst. And stupid copying of alien and alien behavioral models and state institutions leads to nothing but blood, unrest and enormous damage. The collapse of the USSR is an example of this.
    3. Beaver
      Beaver 28 December 2015 10: 02
      +5
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      would lead

      Industrial growth in Russia began before the abolition of serfdom. Serfs were not only peasants, but also workers in factories. The only problem was that the serf, paradoxically, was freer than the "free" worker. He, a serf, could not be forced to work more than 150 days a year. crying
      1. ArcanAG
        ArcanAG 28 December 2015 12: 21
        +1
        From the crunch of the rolls the ears were already laid.

        The serf could be sold as a thing, separated from relatives, exiled to hard labor, simply killed. And all this is the will of the master and his court.
        1. vlad-58
          vlad-58 28 December 2015 18: 50
          +2
          Quote: ArcanAG
          The serf could be sold as a thing, separated from relatives, exiled to hard labor, simply killed. And all this is the will of the master and his court.

          not "by the will of the master," but according to the law! Even BEFORE the Romanovs there were laws regulating the relationship between masters and serfs (formerly boyars and slaves), for example - "Russian Truth" ...
          Because - even though the slaves "belonged" to the boyar, the prince gave the right to "volunteer with little people"! And badly "you will", you give few taxes to the prince's treasury, the squad ("horse, armored and armored") somehow contain - the prince will take it back (as he gave it, he took it ...) and give it to whoever can - and multiply people (at least try yourself ...), and bread ... and a squad ...
  6. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 28 December 2015 07: 43
    0
    The article was put down by the article ... The author is a monarchist, and he looks at events too one-sidedly, retelling everything in his own way!
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 28 December 2015 09: 53
      +1
      The author is not a monarchist, but a supporter of a new-fangled trend called "it's the west to blame for everything." More precisely, it is not too new, in our country they generally like to blame not themselves for all troubles, but someone from the outside, then the Jews, then the German spies, then the Anglo-Saxons, then someone else. Understand that it’s easier for people when it’s hard to sit on the couch and look to blame.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 28 December 2015 22: 00
        +2
        Quote: Nikolai K
        in our country, in general, they like not blaming themselves for all troubles, but someone from the outside

        In the 90s, in our country, we blamed ourselves for everything, and we believed that the West was a friend to us. Now scientists.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 28 December 2015 22: 23
        +1
        "The Englishwoman crap!" - this is when it was said.
  7. kvs207
    kvs207 28 December 2015 08: 03
    +3
    Quote: AlNikolaich
    The author is a monarchist, and looks at events too one-sidedly, retelling everything in his own way!

    And not a word about the Arakcheevschina, and about the fact that the nuts were tightened in the army, and about the fact that the militias were not allowed to go home, and ... There was discontent.
    1. Beaver
      Beaver 28 December 2015 10: 09
      0
      And mass desertion in France, too, they say, was among the soldiers. It’s obvious that they didn’t let go of the militias who tried to compensate for these losses.
  8. ImPerts
    ImPerts 28 December 2015 08: 06
    +6
    Decembrists differ little from Narodnaya Volya, modern home-grown liberals and pro-Westerners. Their methods of gagging opponents are very "democratic". "Burn down the quilted jackets" is not the most bloodthirsty slogan produced by the Russian liberal community.
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 28 December 2015 09: 57
      -4
      All revolutionaries are similar to each other because they have similar methods of struggle, regardless of political attitudes, such as the Decembrists, Narodnaya Volya or Bolsheviks. But the latter were the most consistent and fundamentally in their unscrupulousness, therefore they won, and the Decembrists were too soft, therefore they were on the baton and in Siberia.
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 28 December 2015 15: 44
        +4
        Quote: ImPerts
        The Decembrists are little different from the Narodnaya Volya, modern homegrown liberals and pro-Westerners

        Quote: Nikolai K
        All revolutionaries are alike because they have similar methods of struggle, regardless of political attitudes.

        Quote: Nikolai K
        the Decembrists were too soft, because they were on the baton and in Siberia

        Are they soft and fluffy?
        This Mr. Palkin turned out to be soft and respectable, although the article talked about this and therefore I will not repeat it.
    2. avt
      avt 28 December 2015 10: 05
      10
      Quote: ImPerts
      The Decembrists are little different from the Narodnaya Volya, modern homegrown liberals and pro-Westerners.

      Quote: ImPerts
      "Burn down the quilted jackets" is not the most bloodthirsty slogan produced by the Russian liberal community.

      good The most bloodthirsty, cannibalistic audience! Knows nothing, can not do anything, but aplomb to judge everything and intolerance to other people's opinions ..... When they lose, they whine, we didn't want that! Ideals trampled underfoot! The victory of the "warriors of light" is used by villains! And if you look closely, well, like "where is this Sveta", you can immediately see that the most dexterous and unprincipled of them are already in the ranks of these "scoundrels", and even excellent sadists.
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      In the main, the Decembrists were right. The abolition of serfdom in the 1825 year would lead to the beginning of Russia's industrial growth by 40 years earlier.

      And to myself quite Distemper no worse than after Godunov! Do not believe? Well, they themselves, like true intellectuals, declared that they would jump off as soon as they won, and Trubetskoy did not come to dictate in advance. And so they got to the point that by deceiving the withdrawn soldiers from the barracks they brought to the buckshot.
  9. bober1982
    bober1982 28 December 2015 08: 09
    +4
    I liked the article very much, neither add nor decrease. I did not notice any monarchical views from the author, as well as one-sidedness.
    We continue to divide each other according to the class principle.
  10. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 28 December 2015 08: 19
    +4
    I also put article +. This is a review article from the standpoint of OUR time, the present experience. I have articles on this topic in 8 volumes of "History of the 19th century". I also read references to materials in the letters of the Decembrists. There are still many questions, unknown ...
  11. Andryukha G
    Andryukha G 28 December 2015 08: 33
    +3
    We wanted the best, but it turned out as always, once said one non-poor person and by the way the first temporary owner of Gazprom of Russia in the dashing 90s (for which Gazprom worked for some reason with huge losses).
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 28 December 2015 22: 21
      0
      Finance Minister Pavlov said this after a failed exchange of money!
  12. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 28 December 2015 09: 22
    +9
    Well, in this whole story I am annoyed only for Miloradovich.
    And, for example, I read about them in my childhood - I almost cried. True, I was then ten years old. And how they, poor things, were re-hung, after the break of the first loop. Allegedly, it was believed that if it fell off the gallows, they did not hang it a second time - and then there was a bummer.
    Even the film about the Decembrists even shows how these half-fools cough, sneeze, wipe their snot - and they are hanged. WEIGHT. V E SH A YU T.
    There they are dear.
    If the brains at once did not have enough to arrange equality and fraternity in their estates (did they have these estates? Or they drank everything and lost the cards), let the peasants go free, or let them have land and just set the VAT - then there’s a correction cervical vertebrae will not fix anything.
    .
    The guys, the blue princes and the rest of the Masons, just decided to show off. Show abroad that they, too, they say, wow.
    Did not work.
    Wow, the king turned out to be, and his advisers - ".. adjutant general of Count Tolya:" Your Majesty, order to clear the area with grapeshot or abdicate. "
    Here. Here he is an example of a real patriot, for nothing that he is Scot by blood, you have to think so - "... either take off the cross, or put on your panties ..."
    Bravo, Count Toll.
    .
    Happy, brothers.
    .
    .
    Gentlemen, administrators, well, here in general the brains are on one side - I write - "wow, the king was."
    And in the text I already read on the forum - the king turned out to be wrong.
    You really bring order, no.
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts 28 December 2015 09: 32
      +5
      Quote: Bashibuzuk
      Happy, brothers.

      Happy New Year!
      Quote: Bashibuzuk
      "Your Majesty, order to clear the area with buckshot or abdicate"

      In February of 2013, Yanukovych was supposed to do this, but he chose reclusiveness in Rostov (I’m not talking about many years of flirting with law-cutting European integrators).
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      In the main, the Decembrists were right. The abolition of serfdom in the 1825 year would lead to the beginning of Russia's industrial growth by 40 years earlier.

      Quote: ImPerts
      There is a modern analogue of this thought. Stalin's enslavement of peasants in the USSR (restriction in the issuance of passports to rural residents) did not allow the industrialization of the USSR in the right time, which manifested itself at the beginning of the Second World War.

      Myths myths, myths ...
      Why did Guriy Ivanovich Marchuk enslave the collective farmers and lack of a collective farmer’s passport to prevent him becoming president of the USSR Academy of Sciences?
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 28 December 2015 10: 15
        +1
        Namesake, hello
        Count Toll, a German, turns out to be with tangled roots.
        "..Count (since 1829) Karl Fedorovich Toll (Karl Wilhelm von Toll, Karl Wilhelm von Toll; April 19, 1777 - May 5, 1842, St. Petersburg) - Russian infantry general (1826), participant in the wars with Napoleon and Filyakh, Quartermaster General during the Patriotic War of 1812, since 1833 - chief manager of railways and public buildings. "
        Count and assigned him for the suppression.
        .
        Wondered dates, 2012, 1912, 1812, 1712,1612 ..... nothing special is connected.
        2025, 1925, 1825, 1725, 1625 - generally by.
        1. ImPerts
          ImPerts 28 December 2015 10: 35
          +1
          Greetings to Igor Vladimirovich from Igor Viktorovich drinks
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2015 11: 01
      +1
      Quote: Bashibuzuk
      Wow, the king turned out to be, and his advisers - ".. adjutant general of Count Tolya:" Your Majesty, order to clear the area with grapeshot or abdicate. "

      It seems to me that Tol remembered 13 vandemeres ... smile
  13. Bakht
    Bakht 28 December 2015 10: 11
    +9
    In the story with the Decembrists, it seems to me (only to me) that it simply hit some officers in the head of urine. They had such a habit. Revolt and emperors twirl. Throughout the 18th century, guard officers placed the emperors on the throne.

    Anna Ioannovna - sat on the throne with the assistance of officers
    Catherine the Great - sat on the throne thanks to the officers' rebellion
    Alexander the First - rebellion

    So they decided to continue the tradition.

    Well, their ideas are brutal.
    That’s the first knife for the noble villains,
    And another knife - for judges on rogues,
    And I created a prayer - the third knife against the king!

    If the French Revolution went under the slogan "Liberty-Equality-Brotherhood" and ended with the Jacobin terror, then one can imagine how the Russian Revolution would have ended under such a slogan. Although you don't need to imagine. We all know about 1917
  14. Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 28 December 2015 10: 16
    -5
    DECEMBERS GLORY!
  15. moskowit
    moskowit 28 December 2015 10: 26
    +1
    Have you read, dear comrades, the book by Maria Marich "Northern Lights"? A fascinating piece, I can tell you.
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 December 2015 11: 33
    +3
    "The uprising of the Decembrists is the first major attempt to" restructure "Russia in a Western way" ///

    The author made fun ...
    And Peter the First? Compared to his "perestroika", the Decembrists are small children.

    And Catherine the Second? In constant correspondence and reports on his reforms to Western public
    figures?
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 28 December 2015 11: 50
      +6
      At first, Catherine II was fond of the ideas of Voltaire and others, and corresponded with them, but then prudently changed her mind. It was with her that the first pogroms of numerous secret societies began.
      Peter I was not going to introduce a constitution, and split the country.
  17. 205577
    205577 28 December 2015 11: 38
    +5
    I liked the article as a whole.
    Even in the Soviet presentation of the story with the Decembrists, it was also incomprehensible to me why Miloradovich was killed, somehow it did not fit into the outline of the "liberators", and to put it mildly, Trubetskoy's "indecision", who actually cowed, also did not correspond to the image of a fearless fighter for freedom.
    But!
    It seems to me a little frivolous to bring the Masonic conspiracy under all this.
    Russian people, they are not Westerners, in principle, deeply conspiracy conspiracies, lodges, secret societies are alien to us. Our mentality is such that if we know something, we need to immediately share it with someone, and it is advisable to go ahead of everyone else.
    It is Jesuits and Freemasons who for centuries have been able to “self-gratify” with the awareness of their involvement in something like that - we are not. Our water does not stay in one place.
    At the same time, we are VERY susceptible to ideas, especially if these are ideas of a universal kingdom of heaven on earth. Therefore, most likely, the Decembrists, nevertheless, were sincere in their desire to make life in Russia better.
    But this is the position of idealists who, as the history of our country really shows, wishing to do better, plunged the country into chaos. And "Wishlist" units led to the broken lives of millions.
    So, in fact, it doesn’t matter whether they were guided by a Masonic conspiracy or pure ideas of justice - the result is one - chaos and damage to the country and its citizens.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 28 December 2015 22: 18
      +2
      Good ideas have always laid the road to hell!
  18. avva2012
    avva2012 28 December 2015 12: 11
    13
    Pestel, yes, the people's guardian. What he proposed was not in more than one tyranny of the world. Squealing for everyone, special titles, such as oberstukach (figuratively, of course). Pestel saw himself as the most important, and he was not afraid to pour blood. The Decembrists, by the way, even before the victory squabbled with each other, accusing opponents of everything that was possible, including sadomy. Can you imagine how it would start if they came to power? During interrogations, these noble knights sang about each other, so that the feathers of the clerks broke. And, after all, no one applied any physical measures to "their honor". Even on the mustachioed face, they never hit him or dragged him by the sideburns. You can't, sir, blue blood. Only for the general snitching at each other, you can say a lot about them.
    Yes, yet, evil tongues say that many of those who were exiled to Siberia did not work in hard labor. So, they suffered. Surrounded by mistresses first, then wives, servants, not living in bad houses. And, here's another interesting thing. I.V. Stalin, six times, in my opinion, ran? Yes, and other revolutionaries, too, some from exile, some, really from hard labor. And these, after "hard labor", lived in the provincial centers, like cockroaches behind the stove and did not buzz. Glory to heroes. Ugh, damn it, God forgive me.
  19. avva2012
    avva2012 28 December 2015 12: 27
    +5
    Quote: bober1982
    At first, Catherine II was fond of the ideas of Voltaire and others, and corresponded with them, but then prudently changed her mind. It was with her that the first pogroms of numerous secret societies began.
    Peter I was not going to introduce a constitution, and split the country.

    For youth, but for stupidity. It was fashionable at that time. But when Matushka Catherine firmly sat on the throne, and understood what responsibility she bears, here, here, yes, she "matured". It's one thing to grind with your tongue, it's another to plow like a damn. It is interesting that, Catherine II, a person in the history of the Russian state, for some reason to put it mildly, is not loved by liberals of all stripes. What nasty things they didn’t pour on her. What they just didn’t invent. Apparently, in truth, she was great, since mongrels of all stripes, and after so many years, cannot calm down.
  20. tolancop
    tolancop 28 December 2015 12: 54
    +4
    Bushkov, in one of the parts "Russia, which did not exist" (if not confusing ..) has one very interesting version of the reasons for the Decembrists' speech: they were in debt, and the uprising, if successful and seizing power, allowed "to burn" debts. .. It reminds me of something ....
  21. Heimdall49
    Heimdall49 28 December 2015 14: 15
    -2
    To accelerate this process, a national segregation was actually proposed with the division of the Russian population into groups: 1) the Slavic tribe, the indigenous Russian people (all Slavs were members of it); 2) tribes attached to Russia; 3) foreigners (subjects and not subjects). Pestel proposed tough measures against a number of nationalities.

    Good stuff.
    It looks like Pestel, with all his shortcomings, was an intelligent man. He saw the root, so to speak, and understood the current moment smile
    Divide the Caucasian tribes into small groups and resettle across the country.

    Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye))
  22. DarkRiver
    DarkRiver 28 December 2015 15: 02
    -6
    One can argue to the point of blue in the face of how utopian the ideas of the Decembrists were, but personally, I think they were the only real liberals in Russian history. The patriotic officers who taught peasant children for free in exile, were engaged in geographic research in Siberia, lived by hard physical labor, essentially like peasants. And what kind of liberals do we have now? One name - "Makarevichi" and "Sobchak" - dandruff, which with liberal views covers the usual Russophobia.

    As for the Masonic societies, make allowances, Masonic societies early. The 19th century was far from the greedy predators of the end of the same century; it was a slightly different atmosphere. It is touching to compare the Decembrists with the "golden youth", now we would have such golden youth, ready to serve in the army for half a lifetime.
  23. puppet
    puppet 28 December 2015 15: 18
    +7
    Author, thanks!
    1 moment was always indicative for me in this topic: the soldiers were forced to shout "long live the constitution", saying that this is the name of the emperor's wife (Soviet school curriculum). and did it noble fighters for truth.
  24. avva2012
    avva2012 28 December 2015 15: 53
    +4
    Quote: ImPerts
    Quote: ImPerts
    The Decembrists are little different from the Narodnaya Volya, modern homegrown liberals and pro-Westerners

    Quote: Nikolai K
    All revolutionaries are alike because they have similar methods of struggle, regardless of political attitudes.

    Quote: Nikolai K
    the Decembrists were too soft, because they were on the baton and in Siberia

    Are they soft and fluffy?
    This Mr. Palkin turned out to be soft and respectable, although the article talked about this and therefore I will not repeat it.

    Well, they said perfectly. But, why the ruler of Russia for more than 30 years, the All-Russian Emperor, call Palkin? Not ashamed?
    1. Rastas
      Rastas 28 December 2015 19: 01
      -4
      Of course not. This nickname was given to him by contemporaries. Why not trust them? Under him, Russia remained a backward feudal country. He was a great sovereign.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 28 December 2015 22: 04
        +2
        Quote: Rastas
        This nickname was given to him by contemporaries. Why not trust them?

        The question is what contemporaries.
        Quote: Rastas
        Under him, Russia remained a backward feudal country.

        All countries of that time were mostly slaveholdings. It was simply called a beautiful word - colony.
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 29 December 2015 04: 07
        +6
        Backward by comparison with whom? With England? Yes, the industrial revolution took place there. Have you heard about fencing? "Sheep ate people." How did whole families hang horse rides without reading them? Very Henry the eighth was a progressive sovereign. And, ours, "palkin". Because Asian sir. Again, once I ask, are not you ashamed?
  25. washi
    washi 28 December 2015 17: 49
    +5
    And these "fighters" for the people's happiness could not at the beginning of their own serfs let go, while providing them with land?
  26. vlad-58
    vlad-58 28 December 2015 18: 36
    +2
    there was one more important reason for the uprising - the leaders of the Decembrists were large debtors of the royal family! we collected loans, you know ... and there was no way to return them ("peacefully") ...
    1. Pissarro
      Pissarro 29 December 2015 07: 59
      +1
      Ryleev was the top manager of the Russian-American company, he managed Alaska and California, so how many debts had to be collected so that such a post didn’t pay for them?
  27. Glukashin
    Glukashin 28 December 2015 18: 49
    -6
    The article is very one-sided, the material is presented very tendentiously, numerous pseudo-patriotic (i.e. pro-sovereign) clichés and stamps, such as the machinations of Masons and the West, the fifth column, etc.
    The message is clear. Who is against the Government (i.e., GDP) is the enemy of Russia. Both in the past and in the present.
    Py.sy. The usual kholuy pro-government article.
  28. Rastas
    Rastas 28 December 2015 18: 49
    -4
    What a darkness in the comments. Have you read at least some serious work about the Decembrists. Nechkin, for example? No. Only any stupid fiction, conspiracy theological rubbish. And how they discredited the ideas with which the Decembrists came. The history rewritten by the West for Russia is doing its job. One can see how the government is afraid of all kinds of speeches, revolutions, protests. Therefore, it is difficult for the current generation to understand how this can be done for the sake of public, popular interests, instead of sitting in warm places and receiving awards. Yes, the Decembrists were taller than such bourgeois people.
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 28 December 2015 20: 32
      10
      Buddy .....
      if you want to protest - protest .... mother of yours, duchess ....
      Not for Rastas, of course.
      Go to the Senate, strike, undress, pin the scrotum to the Bronze Horseman with zinc nails ... lick steel locks in the cold ... set fire to your anus, hemorrhoids for fun ... have fun, in short.
      If you are "noble blood", and instead of hemoglobin you have sodium perfluorate .... no one will touch you.
      And your scrotum.
      .
      Nafig had to drag soldier To the square?
      Create a crowd and substitute them under the buckshot?
      One crazy guy, Kakhovsky, took and laid two people down. No way, no way.
      He was hanged. Correctly.
      FOR WHAT ... did the soldiers die?
      For the Constitution? ...
      .
      These high-ranking freaks would have to start on their own. Brains turn on.
      Read Yulian Semyonov - "... the bosses themselves are never able to make a decision. They expect that this decision will be put into their mouths by their subordinates. Then, with a light conscience, the bosses will appropriate the fruits of the decision, and if everything goes wrong, they will find it with who to ask. "
      And the whole trick!
      Nicholas found Count Tol.
      Yanukovych did not find anyone.
      .
      PS ..... BNELtsin found GDPutin.
      .
      Symbolic, right?
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 29 December 2015 04: 15
        +3
        NAFIG had to drag soldiers to the square?
        Create a crowd and substitute them under the buckshot?

        Because their nobility, they were for the people and only thought about them ("our rush", perfectly shown about the deputies). That's how they are. In the evening, a bathhouse, country girls. Then liquor, sincere conversations, as usual. The mustache bristles, the chest heaves with noble anger,
        "how can we arrange Russia". I wonder which of these officers had a university education, at least? How many scientific papers on economics and law did they have in their piggy bank? Thinkers, herbivores.
  29. Rastas
    Rastas 28 December 2015 19: 09
    -3
    The liberal media, not stinting on public slander, subtly erase the deceit of the Decembrists from the memory of generations. Why are they so diligently trying to make oblivion? Because they wanted to abolish autocracy and serfdom, adopt a constitution and introduce equality of all citizens before the law, provide freedom of speech, work and consolidate the election of officials, eliminate the cruel and degrading order in the army .How much time has passed since then, but even today the ideas of social justice continue to excite the consciousness of both the advanced intelligentsia and the ordinary citizen because present-day Russia is also “sick” with the same vices. An open fear is that “a flame will ignite from a spark”, encourages current masters of life to give a negative assessment of the event of domestic history.

    V. Shilov, website of the Communist Party
    1. palm
      palm 28 December 2015 19: 54
      0
      Because they wanted to abolish autocracy and serfdom, adopt a constitution and introduce equality of all citizens before the law, provide freedom of speech, work and consolidate the election of officials, eliminate the cruel and degrading order in the army and you seriously believe that all of the above was with the Bolsheviks ... well, well, if only nominally. and de facto none of the above. The autocracy was replaced by a dictatorship on behalf of the people and the proletariat. serfdom was replaced by state capitalism; everyone polled for nothing, and those who refused used parasites. Equality before the law was not and still is not. evidence wagon. freedom of speech was guaranteed by the gulag. freedom of work is also in the gulag. The election of officials is still not there. order in the army was always guaranteed by the disbath by the penal battalion and hazing
      1. Rastas
        Rastas 28 December 2015 20: 14
        0
        I don’t understand what you are writing about. There, in fact, there was talk of Decembrists. And you seem to have a mania for the persecution of the Bolsheviks. Then the dictatorship on behalf of the people and the social division of the society are two different things; under the Union, social elevators worked, state we have capitalism right now, and under the Union the working man was respected, was the elite of society and never felt like a serf. Equality before the law was much greater than the current one, all sorts of majors did not evade responsibility, and such cases as the Vasilyeva’s case could not be dreamed of. Freedom of speech was complete, except for criticism of the system. At the enterprises, the leaders criticized and demanded conditions at the meetings; be healthy, try it today - they will expel it right there. Labor was free and, most importantly, publicly accessible without caste. And most importantly, freedom was that people knew that their work would always be guaranteed and that they would not remain in poverty, as they are now.
        1. palm
          palm 4 January 2016 23: 09
          0
          I DON'T HAVE A MANIA OF PERSECUTION. BUT most of my family was destroyed by the Bolsheviks on a class basis. Part of the family came under repression in 36-37, again on the basis of class, and this is taking into account that the backbone of the family was composed of staff officers. REHABILITATED. But the ashes are beating in the heart.
          THESES Decembrists are noble. I will subscribe to almost everyone. The Bolsheviks came with similar slogans adding Lenin's robbery from themselves looted. So what prevented the Bolsheviks from translating noble slogans into reality. now at the helm of power is a Communist Party member, Communist Putin. Where have the gains of the working people gone? Of the advantages of socialism, there was really free education and free medicine.
          Quote: Rastas
          Vasilyev’s case couldn’t even dream of a terrible dream
          what about the Georgadze case. It’s necessary, a communist and a billion Soviet wooden rubles to steal.
          Quote: Rastas
          Labor was free and, most importantly, publicly accessible without caste
          you can remember Lomonosov DEMID. There were supposedly no social elevators. And in order not to be unfounded read about the delights of the CPSU board in the decision of the constitutional court of November 30, 1992 N 9-P, just look for the full with the inclusion of dissenting opinions. WHAT PEOPLE SHORT MEMORY.
          1. palm
            palm 5 January 2016 00: 53
            0
            Not a single power in essence and fact shares the theses of the Decembrists. Neither past nor present.
            The slogans of the Decembrists will remain utopian: abolish autocracy and serfdom, adopt a constitution and introduce equality of all citizens before the law, provide freedom of speech, work and consolidate the election of officials, eliminate the cruel and degrading human order in the army.
            Land for peasants, factories for workers, peace huts, war on palaces, One Demagogy. But the people then believed, but in vain.
    2. puppet
      puppet 29 December 2015 10: 39
      0
      Quote: Rastas
      V. Shilov, website of the Communist Party

      here is the answer
  30. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 28 December 2015 19: 27
    +4
    Of course, these comrades said quite right things: reforms, freedom, etc., but something tells me that Russia would play Russian roulette with a machine gun if they won ...
    It would be unlikely that they could establish a relatively strong regime. Separatists and radicals would drown the country in blood.
  31. Kaliningrad
    Kaliningrad 28 December 2015 19: 31
    +6
    It's strange. For a long time they defamed the "bloody gebnya" and loved the "crunch of the French roll" But the Decembrists are the most traitors to the Motherland. But to this day, both "commies" and "liberals" respect them. There were disgusting people.
    1. Rastas
      Rastas 28 December 2015 19: 43
      -5
      And in what way have they changed the homeland? Tell me? And what did you read about the Decembrists, except for the school textbook and similar anti-scientific articles?
  32. palm
    palm 28 December 2015 20: 11
    +3
    A little-known fact, but speaking of many things, is that all convicts and survivors were subsequently rehabilitated with the highest decree completely with the return of property and titles
  33. Captain45
    Captain45 28 December 2015 20: 36
    +5
    Usually, A. Samsonov has interesting articles on historical topics and he tries to stick to the facts, but this phrase:Russia was on the rise of its military-political power, was considered the "gendarme of Europe."does not correspond to the described historical period. "Gendarme of Europe" began to talk about Russia with the light hand of Levi Mordechai (Karl Marx) after the suppression of the rebellion in Hungary by Nicholas I in 1847, by the way, at the request of the Emperor of Austria-Hungary in accordance with the treaty that existed at that time between Emperors of Europe - "Holy Alliance" to prevent the emergence of a new Napoleon. Regarding the Decembrists: A. Samsonov did not mention in the article that after Alexander's death his brother Konstantin should have succeeded him. But he, being the governor-general of Poland, got confused with the Polish lady , took on a child from her and was deprived of the right to inherit the throne and Nikolai became the heir to the throne. The Decembrists were divided into two societies - "Northern" and "Southern" and Constantine, who had no rights to the throne, had, as they said at that time, intercourse (not sexual) with members of the "Southern Society", which offered him to become the new emperor. Constantine, although he had intercourse with them, did not agree (in any case, direct evidence of his Glacia was not found, although it is known that they managed to mint a certain amount of rubles with the profile of Konstantin. Now they are worth a lot of money. By the way, I wonder who and where minted them?). The regiments were brought to the square under the pretext of taking the oath of allegiance to Constantine, who allegedly promised freedom when he was recognized as tsar, i.e. a specific coup d'état that would be suppressed by force in any country, and the leaders would be executed. So no need to cry. The Decembrists were nobles, and therefore they understood genealogy, inheritance rights, but nevertheless changed the oath and the state, for which they paid.
  34. Captain45
    Captain45 28 December 2015 20: 46
    +5
    “One of the foreign diplomats, Saint-Priest, wrote that by suppressing the Decembrist uprising, Nicholas saved not only Russia, but also Europe, which had not yet overcome the terrible consequences of the French revolution.
    “The revolution here would be terrible. The issue is not the replacement of one Emperor with another, but the upheaval of the entire social system, from which the whole of Europe would be covered with ruins. ”
    M.I. Muravyov-Apostle admitted before his death that "he always thanked God for the failure of December 14."
    Another Decembrist, A.P. Belyaev, years after the uprising, wrote, as if pronouncing a verdict on the work of his youth: “I now acknowledge in my soul that if it were possible with my own sacrifice to complete the work of renewing the fatherland, then such a sacrifice would be high and holy, but that the trouble is that revolutionaries along with them mainly sacrifice people, probably mostly satisfied with their fate and not at all willing or even understanding the good deeds that they want to impose against their beliefs, beliefs and desires ... I am quite convinced that only with a stone heart with spirit and evil, blinded by the mind, you can make revolutions and look calmly at the falling innocent victims. "
    “December 14 can neither be honored nor celebrated; on this day we must cry and pray, "said the Decembrists who returned from exile." (c)
    From the article: What did the Decembrists conspiracy prepare for Russia? http://cont.ws/post/158347
  35. kalibr
    kalibr 28 December 2015 22: 08
    -2
    Quote: Boris55
    In terms of economic power and the average standard of living (despite the bloody war that the United States profited from), the Stalinist USSR was on equal terms with the United States, if not higher. By the number of millionaires and the poor - the US was ahead of the USSR. The destruction of the USSR began with the advent of the underelicted Trotskyist Khrushchev. Stalin was not able to transfer power to the Soviets - the resistance of the party nomenclature was too great.

    Boris, you write funny things, it’s not clear where they came from. And about millionaires and beggars, this is generally meaningless, right? But the most important you still see - it is in the word did not succeed! And it could not succeed, could it? The whole course of history has shown this. You can say as much as you like, but that would not be reality!
  36. Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 28 December 2015 22: 13
    +1
    The article is pretty convincing! But! History has no subjunctive mood! And tirrades like THAT WAS THAT, THIS WOULD THIS be pure chatter. And as a result of NOT BASED ON ANYTHING THANKS and speculative conclusions on the topic - what would have happened if the author REDUCE THE HISTORY OF OWN COUNTRY and people striving to IMPROVE their country. Now a wave is starting in the Russian mass media "against any revolutions", and this article just fits into this channel. The thesis is introduced into the minds of people that it is NECESSARY to BE ENDURED, and the authorities WILL DO IT HOW IT IS NECESSARY! But this thesis confirms only the RIGHT OF THE IMPROVED LEADERSHIP and further ineptly govern the country. And the article shows how this path leads to EVEN MORE BLOODY consequences. Leaving "everything as it is" in December 1825, the country inevitably came to FEBRUARY 1917! Fortunately, the whole situation was SPAS on October 17th and the country got a CHANCE TO CONTINUE ITS GREATNESS (which was confirmed by history). Let through blood, let through sacrifices! BUT! THE COUNTRY BECAME EVEN MORE GREAT than under the tsarist government! And now, having fixed at the helm of the country idlers, thieves and talkers, THE COUNTRY HAS NO CHANCE EVEN FOR SURVIVAL!
  37. kapitan92
    kapitan92 29 December 2015 01: 00
    +4
    Quote: Glafira
    There was just a discussion at VO ... About the famine and famine in general. Let me remind Nikolai K: after the reforms of 1861 in Russia, hunger was a constant occurrence, repeating itself after 8-10 years, while pre-reform Russia did not know hunger at all, which Western travelers wrote with envy.

    The cannibalistic expression "We will not eat, but we will take out" belongs to the Minister of Finance of the government of Alexander III, Vyshnegradsky. This was called "hungry exports." The export continued even when, as a result of a poor harvest, the net per capita tax was about 14 poods, while the critical level of hunger for Russia was 19,2 poods. Between 1891 and 92, over 30 million people went hungry. The canteens opened by the Red Cross fed up to 1,5 million people. According to the official sharply underestimated data, 400 thousand people died then, modern sources believe that more than half a million people died, taking into account the poor registration of foreigners, the mortality rate can be significantly higher.
    Only at the beginning of the 20th century from hunger !!! 8-10 million people died in Russia.
    Writer Vladimir Korolenko:
    “Now (1906–7), in starving areas, fathers sell their daughters to merchants of live goods. The progress of Russian hunger is obvious. ”
    In general, serfdom is just as colored by tales as the valiant guardians of the people - the Decembrists.
    It was just the opposite.
    Decembrists are the enemies of Russia.
    And serfdom was a good for the country, not a disaster.
    You are not judged by the killer doctors about all medicine .. And the institute of serfdom is judged by Saltychikha.
    Perhaps, nevertheless, the criterion for the failure of another democracy is the starvation of tens of millions of peasants?
    Russia has become one of the main suppliers of bread in the European market long before the abolition of serfdom. Because it was precisely the landlords' households that provided marketable bread.
    A peasant farm in Russia- NOT FOR GOOD! It can’t give anything to the market. You can only take away, dooming the peasants to hunger.
    That corrected only 1917 .... for the period until 1991go.

    .. Peasant reform in Russia (colloquially the abolition of serfdom) - initiated in 1863, the reform that abolished serfdom in the Russian Empire. It was the first in time and the most significant of the "great reforms" of Emperor Alexander II; was announced by the Manifesto of the abolition of serfdom on February 19 (March 3), 1861.

    A long overdue, belated reform opened the way to the development of capitalism in Russia and to industrialization. (This is from the "wiki")
    I will not argue with you! I am sending info, pay attention to the dates.
    ..... "The London Underground is the oldest in the world. Its first line, called the Metropolitan Railway, opened in 1863. It connected two major train stations with the City. [6] In 1890, the London Underground became one of the first railway systems where electric trains began to operate ".. [
  38. Ozhogin Dmitry
    Ozhogin Dmitry 29 December 2015 02: 35
    +1
    I completely agree with the author. It is always like this with us: whoever needs to be praised is criticized, who is tedious to despise is praised. It's time to rewrite your story correctly.
  39. Atigay
    Atigay 29 December 2015 09: 37
    +2
    The monarchy of Russia, in general, foreign in origin, was the guarantor of the preservation of the nation. In general, the destruction of monarchies is an act of destruction of the national structure of states, "de-nationalization" is a direct path to the cosmopolitan future. I’m not that for a monarchy, it just seems to me that the concept of "honor and dignity" derives from the nation. Modern demons understood this, therefore, in every possible way, destroying history, education, states, seducing with free money, and so on. strive to dilute the peoples by creating a gray, easily manageable mass.
    I do not think that Stalin did not understand the destructiveness of the Decembrists, but his historians presented this history lesson as a struggle of the elite for a better future for the people, cunningly.
    A gloomy December will not bring such things yet. drinks
  40. ovod84
    ovod84 29 December 2015 16: 54
    0
    The Decembrists were indecisive. Why stand and wait while the emperor was gathering troops they needed as a Bolshevik to have decisiveness.
  41. Cobra77
    Cobra77 29 December 2015 22: 15
    +1
    Quote: Palm
    Obviously, Stalin in the view of some straight white fluffy darling. and Putin in fact professes moderate national Bolshevism.


    And for example, I do not evaluate the rulers by their mimicry and glamor. I am not a girl of 16 years old. I evaluate the results of activities for the country, only that matters. Duck, from this point of view, Comrade Stalin was an excellent ruler, not without problems, of course, and mistakes. GDP against its background as an unreasonable child. But against the background of, for example, Gorbachev and EBN, GDP is a good head of state.
    And if anything, the GDP is liberal. Just not frostbitten, but also with his head sometimes thinking.
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. palm
    palm 4 January 2016 22: 19
    -1
    Quote: cobra77
    GDP is liberal. Just not frostbitten, but also with his head sometimes thinking


    Recently, I very much begin to doubt that GDP is thinking. Rather ambitious. In any case, it is not entirely clear to me what he thinks. And when it is not clear, it begins sooner or later, but inevitably scare. Where is he and Pyatochk going, a big, big question
  44. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 6 January 2016 00: 03
    0
    Quote: Captain45
    One of the foreign diplomats, Saint-Priest, wrote that, by suppressing the Decembrist uprising, Nikolay saved not only Russia, but also Europe,
    By the way, this is a man from the family of marquises de Saint-Prix (how this surname is spelled correctly in Russian), French royalist immigrants, who themselves saw the horrors of the French Revolution. He knew what he was writing about.


    Quote: Captain45
    I am quite convinced that only with a stone heart and an evil spirit, blinded by the mind, one can make revolutions and look in cold blood on falling innocent victims. ”

    What are the right words! And this applies to the creators of all revolutions, even in our time!
  45. bbss
    bbss 3 November 2016 12: 45
    0
    The next sermons of the adherents of the "chicken god". The ruling regime is exclusively to blame for the emergence of all sorts of Decembrists, Februaryists, etc. He was already rotten by February 17th ...