Chinese automatic grenade launchers in Syria

The QLZ-87 grenade launcher is a fully Chinese development and for the first time tested in real combat conditions in Syria, writes Roman Katkov in his article for Messenger of Mordovia.

“For the first time, these grenade launchers were spotted two years ago, when they were used by militants opposing the Syrian army. Weapon delivered by Sudan through Qatar. Apparently, they didn’t put him too much, and soon most of them were lost in the battles, ”the author notes.

Later, QLZ-87 appeared at the Kurdish militia, then at the government forces.

35-mm QLZ-87 grenade launcher (Type 87) can be used from both bipods and the machine. Its weight in the bipod version is 12 kg. Firing rate - up to 500 rds / min.

According to the author, the grenade launcher's ammunition includes: “cumulative grenades capable of penetrating up to 80-mm armor, and ammunition with ready-made attack elements, the radius of destruction of which is up to 10 meters.”

Drum shops with a capacity of 12, 9 and 6 grenades are used for food, the firing range is up to 1,75 km.

Chinese rocket launchers are used on a par with the Soviet AGS-17.

Experts do not come to say where these weapons came from, it may have been supplies from China.

Comments

[ratfly]

The bipod variant is interesting. Appearance on the level. What is reliability? Ammunition compatible with ours?

[Cruorvult]

There is no kanencha, our 30 mm, Ukrainians 40, this 35. The cumulative ammunition is interesting in comparison with PTRS ...

[i80186]

Quote: CruorVult

Cumulative ammunition is interesting in comparison with PTRS ...

How can you compare one hundred grams of explosives and three to five kilograms? These are disparate things by definition. This is how to compare the action of a rifle bullet and a 57mm projectile.

[Kars]

This is likely to mean an anti-tank gun

[Now we are free]

The machine is very, very interesting, taking into account its weight and (declared) capabilities.
It is a very unpleasant fact that completely combat-ready types of the latest Chinese weapons first of all end up in the "Bad Boys" ...
So it was with the FN-6 MANPADS from which the Assad Army Mi-35 of the Iraqi Air Force and MI-8 were dumped into the rear hemisphere (you can find the video on YouTube). Now here is a universal portable automatic grenade launcher appeared in them ...
All this is beginning to strongly resemble Afghanistan, where China also "did not participate", but then China and the USSR were competitors (if not enemies) now seeing a completely trusting and mutually beneficial relationship between Uncle Pu and Uncle Xi, the appearance of novelties of the Chinese military-industrial complex among terrorists causes a lot hard-hitting questions to the Celestial Empire ...

[Leprekon]

Quote: Now we are free

the appearance by terrorists of the novelties of the Chinese military-industrial complex raises many unpleasant questions to the Middle Kingdom ...

Unfortunately this is just a business! Didn’t you meet such headlines - “The King of Saudi Arabia, Salman ibn Abdel-Aziz al-Saud, may visit Moscow at the end of November and a package of contracts for the supply of up to $ 10 billion worth of Russian weapons to the kingdom is already being prepared for his visit” Source: http: // rusnext.ru/news/1447219612

[gray smeet]

Quote: i80186

This is how to compare the action of a rifle bullet and a 57mm projectile.

By the way, 57mm is back in fashion, ours have already made a cannon .. AU-220M, an automatic cannon with a caliber of 57 mm, was developed in Nizhny Novgorod, employees of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" initially designed it to equip light warships. the car turned out to be a beast!

Click here for details:
http://kompromatru.livejournal.com/1194614.html

[IS-80]

Quote: gray smeet

AU-220M, an automatic cannon with a caliber of 57 mm, was developed in Nizhny Novgorod; the employees of the Burevestnik Central Research Institute originally designed it to equip light warships. the car turned out to be a beast!

This is all from poverty. 30 mm need to be changed, and 45 mm netut guns. Harsh Russian designers have to fire a 57 mm gun on an BTR-T and other armored personnel carriers which do not need it for nothing.

[Genry]

Quote: IS-80

This is all from poverty. 30 mm need to be changed, and 45 mm netut guns. Harsh Russian designers have to fire a 57 mm gun on an BTR-T and other armored personnel carriers which do not need it for nothing.

You are on the wrong side.
What is needed is precisely the most powerful and fast-firing gun, with a quick response to the situation, to ground and air targets.
Need to shoot shells with controlled detonation.
The 57mm "Baikal" meets these requirements.
Your 45 has just been fired.

[IS-80]

Quote: Genry

What is needed is precisely the most powerful and fast-firing gun, with a quick response to the situation, to ground and air targets.

Than a 45 mm gun does not fit these criteria? It's just that our rumors have swung at the telescopic ammunition and haven’t succeeded yet. Of the less suitable replacement 57 mm in stock, it’s like they will put it. But 45 mm seems to be sawing anyway. In general, wait and see.

[i80186]

Quote: yushch

One hundred grams multiplied by 12, it turns out two hundred kilos. In principle, for close combat on lightly armored targets, it’s even nothing.

No, everything is different here, the back-up effect will actually be expressed only by the action of the jet. If nothing important came under the stream, then nothing terrible happened. The hole just riveted in the armor and all. In view of this, I do not want to be at the place of the calculation, trying to release the line, under the fire of something 30mm automatic. I’ve even fired from an anti-tank grenade launcher and you probably know that if you hit, the crew of an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle will fly.

[Tor5]

Yeah! So the Chinese are testing their weapons in combat conditions and, accordingly, will improve.

[aszzz888]

Experts do not come to say where these weapons came from, it may have been supplies from China.

That's why it’s a weapon to appear somewhere. Especially where they are fighting.

[novobranets]

Quote: aszzz888

Especially where they are fighting.

No field tests can replace a real theater. The Chinese also want to know the delicate places of their weapons.

[PN]

And I will say so, the thin spots of all Chinese products are beef metal.

[novobranets]

You judge by the consumer goods, which are riveted in the basement "on the knee", and which the shuttles take exclusively because of the low price. China China strife. They know how to do good things for themselves.

[kill the fascist]

the weight is small, it looks outwardly, it is interesting as functionality and reliability.

[prabiz]

W87 / QLZ-87 automatic grenade launcher Attempts to copy the Soviet AGS-17 grenade launcher from the Chinese people were not particularly successful in view of the rather expensive production, in addition, the People's Liberation Army of China needed a lighter weapon that would not be inferior in terms of fire power to foreign models. That is why it was decided to design their own automatic grenade launcher, to fire from which it would be possible both from the bipod, and from the machine tool or from armored vehicles. Work began by NORINCO back in the late 1980s, and in the mid-1990s, tests were carried out on a 35-mm W87 automatic grenade launcher with store supply. According to the test results, the design of the grenade launcher was significantly revised, and already in the 21st century, the 35-mm automatic grenade launcher QLZ-87 began to enter the army.

Specifications W87 / QLZ-87
Caliber - 35 mm
Weapon weight - 12 kg
Machine weight - 8 kg
Grenade mass - 270 g
Grenade initial speed - 170 m / s
Firing Range - 1500 m maximum, 600 m effective
Rate of fire - 400 rds / min
Magazine capacity - 6,9,12 shots
Calculation - 2 people

[Tutu]

QLZ-87 and AGS-17

[Appraiser]

Only time will evaluate this product with a reliability parameter. China cannot be ruled out from the point of view of a small arms manufacturer, but this grenade launcher is inferior in reliability to AGS-17. The most important thing is where to get the ammunition for the QLZ-87!

[Hon]

Quote: Appraiser

but this grenade launcher is inferior in reliability to the AGS-17

and how did you compare them?

[Mera joota]

Quote: Hon

and how did you compare them?

So it’s clear that ours is better only because ours ... This is the main parameter of all weapon systems of local commentators ...

[IS-80]

Quote: Mera Joota

So it’s clear that ours is better only because ours ... This is the main parameter of all weapon systems of local commentators ...

Are you saying that you want to say that our Russian weapons are bad?

[silver169]

And when will our 40-mm grenade launcher be finished there? I mean the Balkan. A very promising unit, it seems to me. It was tested back in 2008.

[Hon]

Quote: silver169

And when will our 40-mm grenade launcher be finished there? I mean the Balkan. A very promising unit, it seems to me. It was tested back in 2008.

never, AGS-30 wins by mass, and having two systems for different ammunition is wasteful

[IS-80]

Quote: Hon

never, AGS-30 wins by mass, and having two systems for different ammunition is wasteful

AGS-30 should be replaced for a long time with a normal self-loading (with the possibility of automatic firing from the machine) 45 mm manual grenade launcher with a drum magazine for 5 medium-pulse grenades. And transfer the AGS to the category of heavy vehicles with a caliber of 45 mm and firing grenades with high-pulse grenades.

[Hon]

Quote: IS-80

AGS-30 should be replaced for a long time with a normal self-loading (with the possibility of automatic firing from the machine) 45 mm manual grenade launcher with a drum magazine for 5 medium-pulse grenades. And transfer the AGS to the category of heavy vehicles with a caliber of 45 mm and firing grenades with high-pulse grenades.

with what
ags-30 is not normal? 45, why not 50?

[IS-80]

Quote: Hon

with what
ags-30 is not normal? 45, why not 50?

Because 45 mm is optimal.

[Hon]

but there are analogues of automatic grenade launchers for such a caliber? everyone like 30-40

[Nikolaevich I]

But, in general, the rejection of the "Balkan" was never "announced"! Although the shots for the AGS-30 are being improved: new shots "have a range" of up to 2,1 km; the "range" of shots has been expanded.

[Hon]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

But, in general, the rejection of the "Balkan" was never "announced"! Although the shots for the AGS-30 are being improved: new shots "have a range" of up to 2,1 km; the "range" of shots has been expanded.

but they didn’t refuse him, they simply didn’t accept him. checked, tested, good, but did not accept

[individual]

There is nothing sacred on the world arms market.
There would be money, and supply is ahead of demand.

[Chicot 1]

For the first time these grenade launchers were spotted two years ago, then they were used by militants opposing the Syrian army

The smallest "druh" China ... What else did the Han people supply and are delivering to the militants? .. MANPADS? .. ATGM? .. Communication means? ..

[donavi49]

Two Mi-35s and at least 3 Iraqi light helicopters were shot down by FN-6. The same MANPADS are in the Sinai, where the Egyptian Apache was shot down or damaged and lost.

However, the PRC is hard to blame. These MANPADS, ATGMs go to Sudan, where they are "disposed of" in exercises, but in fact are sold to broads, from there they go to Sinai by sea or land (the Egyptians killed tourists then, on the route of just such supplies, counting them for the next batch of Sudan), from there to Libya / Syria.

[Mera joota]

Quote: donavi49

However, China is hard to blame.

... is that knowing how the Islamists of the Sudan supply weapons to their Sunni brothers in Syria and continue to supply weapons to the Sudan? There is nothing complicated, China uses Sudan as a front man for the supply of weapons to the region.

[Mera joota]

When it comes to the question of how the Chinese weapons systems get to the jihadists in Syria, everyone begins to frankly ignore these facts. When Assad's tanks burn American TOWs, everyone in anger curses the American military, when the same is done from the Chinese HJ-8 "Red Arrow" anti-tank systems, then silence ...
But the question arises, why does China supply its weapons to the Syrian "rebels" even through third countries? What are the goals of China? Why does Russia, who considers China as a friend, frankly fail to notice this?

[Chicot 1]

Quote: donavi49

However, the PRC is hard to blame. These MANPADS, ATGMs go to Sudan, where they are "disposed of" in the exercises, but in fact are sold to broads

If Beijing sees its benefits in the Syrian conflict, and he probably sees it, then it will act exclusively in its interests ...
Here are some examples ... At first, the Han people do not allow Aksenov and other Crimean officials into China. However, a little later, their cable-laying vessel is involved in work in the Kerch Strait ... Around the same time, the announcement is made of the deployment of the production of a Chinese light attack aircraft / combat trainer at Odesaaviaservice. And this plane was "developed" by the Hans with the direct participation of Yakovlev Design Bureau specialists ...
Draw your own conclusions ...

Quote: Mera Joota

When it comes to the question of how the Chinese weapons systems get to the jihadists in Syria, everyone begins to frankly ignore these facts. When Assad's tanks burn the American TOWs, everyone in anger curses the American military, when the same is done from the Chinese HJ-8 ATGM "Red Arrow" then silence

There are still too many who sincerely believe in "true friendship" with "great" China. And therefore, they are condescending not only to the emergence of Chinese weapons from terrorists, but also to the fact that Beijing is pursuing a rather aggressive policy to "develop" our Far East ...

Quote: donavi49

However, China is hard to blame

Of course! .. In the 1980s. the Han people supplied their weapons to the Afghan majahideen. Was it also "disposed of" in Pakistan and Iran before that? ..

PS A year ago, we were friends with Turkey and called Erdogan a partner. It all ended on November 24, when Mr. Recep showed his true face ...
Han is wiser than Erdogan. But this does not mean that you need to trust everything that they say. Need to look at their affairs. And they only do what is beneficial to them. And if they felt that it was beneficial for them to supply their weapons to the Middle East, then they would do so. And at the same time they will be cheating on our interests ...

[Maksus]

This unit turns out to be much more mobile than the AGS-17, which, together with a snail and a machine, weighs 29 kg, if my memory serves me right and requires two people. The bipod variant is not bad for fighting in the city, you can just bombard suspicious places with grenades. I remember the Americans had the LandWarrior program with the promising OICW complex, there was a barrel-mounted grenade launcher on 6 charges, which was also a good thing, though the machine itself is a hat, only for the city ...

[IS-80]

Quote: Maksus

I remember the Americans had the LandWarrior program with the promising OICW complex, there was a 6-shot barreled grenade launcher, which was a good thing, though the machine itself was a hat, only for the city ...

This nonsense is completely unnecessary. And the thing was bad. XM-25 which from this program sawed too full crap whatever PR there.

[Maksus]

XM-25 is just a very good thing, it is much more compact than the same RG-6 (a magazine instead of a drum, and a caliber smaller than 25 mm instead of 40). For fights in the city - the very thing allows you to simply throw suspicious places with grenades. Plus, the possibility of undermining ammunition at a programmed range - and this is already good against sheltered soldiers in the mountains and the field.

[IS-80]

Quote: Maksus

XM-25 is just a very good thing, it is much more compact than the same RG-6 (a magazine instead of a drum, and a caliber smaller than 25 mm instead of 40). For fights in the city - the very thing allows you to simply throw suspicious places with grenades. Plus, the possibility of undermining ammunition at a programmed range - and this is already good against sheltered soldiers in the mountains and the field.

25 mm is generally tears. Here 30 mm grenade is not effective enough, and 25 in general is like peas against a wall in the presence of body armor and a fragmentation suit. Yeah, if the enemy of tickling is afraid of it.

[Alexey Lesogor]

Quote: Now we are free

The machine is very, very interesting, taking into account its weight and (declared) capabilities.
It is a very unpleasant fact that completely combat-ready types of the latest Chinese weapons first of all end up in the "Bad Boys" ...
So it was with the FN-6 MANPADS from which the Assad Army Mi-35 of the Iraqi Air Force and MI-8 were dumped into the rear hemisphere (you can find the video on YouTube). Now here is a universal portable automatic grenade launcher appeared in them ...
All this is beginning to strongly resemble Afghanistan, where China also "did not participate", but then China and the USSR were competitors (if not enemies) now seeing a completely trusting and mutually beneficial relationship between Uncle Pu and Uncle Xi, the appearance of novelties of the Chinese military-industrial complex among terrorists causes a lot hard-hitting questions to the Celestial Empire ...

The dragon has no friends - there are those with whom now are on the way.

[BIGLESHIY]

Yes this woof ... there is a complete skewer . Pay attention to the trigger guard and the handle - they are not only on the side, but also at an angle relative to each other (this is clearly visible on the first and last photo).

[Letnab]

the article indicates the possibility of breaking through 80 mm of armor ... not too much for such a weapon?