Ship aviation masters MiG-29K

Ship pilots aviation master the multifunctional MiG-29K aircraft, reports MIC with reference to the message of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergey Shoigu.

“The development of a new multi-purpose shipboard aircraft MiG-29K has already begun. For the training of flight personnel for its use, the construction of the ground-based training complex in Yeisk continues. There are no similar complexes in our country ",

said the minister at a conference call today.

The contract for the supply of 24 aircraft MiG-29K / KUB was concluded in 2012. The first serial MiG-29KUB took off in October 2013-th.

Help "MIC": “The MiG-29K (single) and MiG-29KUB (double) fighters have an improved glider with a high proportion of composite materials, a foldable wing with improved mechanization, a digital integrated remote control system for the aircraft with fourfold redundancy. The MiG-29K / KUB significantly reduced visibility in the radar range, increased combat load, there is a system of refueling in flight. "

The aircraft’s armament includes air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, unguided missiles, corrected aerial bombs, aerial bombs, and a built-in 30-mm gun.

Comments

[oleg-gr]

Studying in Yeysk, and then applying skills in Syria with Kuznetsov. Additional forces are very necessary there.

[Baikonur]

Look at this handsome man! A month ago on "Zvezda" they showed:

[twviewer]

Quote: Baikonur

Look at

he puts the rivet "in place" but not with a frail gap, or fasten the stand arm with an open-end wrench, tearing off the edges, and even without a counter washer ... what is this? 4 ++ ??? yes, with this approach, you cannot assemble two identical planes :)

[Zuborez]

Quote: twviewer

Yes, with this approach, you can’t assemble two identical planes :)

"according to intelligence reports" (tm), this sometimes happens in Lukhovitsy

[Gaersul]

Yeah, and also the antenna on takeoff falls.

[Scraptor]

And from firing from a low-speed 30mm gun (from which you can’t get on an airplane) it falls apart ...

In general, why is there a plane on the ship whose main and unique advantage over the Su-27 is that it can take off from unpaved strips, and which is inferior to it in everything else?

[Gaersul]

Quote: Scraptor

And from firing from a low-speed 30mm gun (from which you can’t get on an airplane) it falls apart ...

Something I doubt very much, here is the fact that once in the FACE young animals fixed the antenna through ... since the pilot immediately landed for landing. And MIG shoots fine, I would even say perfectly!

[Scraptor]

From 1500 rpm? With tanks and even Su-25 aircraft with its 2200 rounds it shoots even better.
All American fighter jets have fast-firing 20mm guns with 6600 and much larger ammunition.
30mm of tactics only on A-10 with 4200.

In Georgia, they even shot down a drone with a MiG-29 with an expensive missile so as not to use an even more "expensive" gun.

[Scraptor]

From 1500 rpm? With tanks and even Su-25 aircraft with its 2200 rounds it shoots even better.
All American fighter jets have fast-firing 20mm guns with 6600 and much larger ammunition.
30mm of tactics only on A-10 with 4200.

In Georgia, they even shot down a drone with a MiG-29 with an expensive missile so as not to use an even more "expensive" gun.

[not main]

Quote: twviewer

Quote: Baikonur

Look at

he puts the rivet "in place" but not with a frail gap, or fasten the stand arm with an open-end wrench, tearing off the edges, and even without a counter washer ... what is this? 4 ++ ??? yes, with this approach, you cannot assemble two identical planes :)

And rivet when crimping compacts all areas! This is the beauty of rivets! Try to get a rivet from 3 or more riveted products! At the expense of tearing off the edges, it’s you who got excited, but the counter washer is redundant here. Lock wire is used here, so the grover is overweight!

[twviewer]

Quote: non-primary

And rivet when crimping compacts all areas! This is the beauty of rivets! Try to get a rivet from 3 or more riveted products! At the expense of tearing off the edges, it’s you who got excited, but the counter washer is redundant here. Lock wire is used here, so the grover is overweight!

spheres fill speak? I drilled it out of place and the key did not break, but did I determine the moment from experience? and how much time did you spend more working with a horn? and as for the use of wire, you’re probably right,
what about the lack of mats on the "fuselage"? the technology and culture is antediluvian from the 80s, except that the power tool is larger.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Baikonur

Look at this handsome man! A month ago on "Zvezda" they showed:

What are they the latest (MiG-29KUB) ?? Why write that? The only thing missing is the grandiloquent phrases, which are obligatory in such cases: "has no analogues in the world" and "knows very little"!
A few years ago, the Indian aircraft carrier Vikromaditya was equipped with them!
Again, the old ones are being pushed instead of immediately developing the deck version of the T-50 (PAK FA).

[podpolkovnik]

Quote: GSH-18

Quote: Baikonur

Look at this handsome man! A month ago on "Zvezda" they showed:

What are they the latest (MiG-29KUB) ?? Why write that? The only thing missing is the grandiloquent phrases, which are obligatory in such cases: "has no analogues in the world" and "knows very little"!
A few years ago, the Indian aircraft carrier Vikromaditya was equipped with them!
Again, the old ones are being pushed instead of immediately developing the deck version of the T-50 (PAK FA).

Do not pay attention - Baiko-nur again under the influence technical fluids "pompous" and "pathos", his tales no one seriously takes ...

[Cis-Urals]

Yes, we would have to wait for the usual T-50

[tomket]

Quote: GSH-18

Again junk vparivayut,

Well then, let’s be indignant about the fact that both the Su-34s of the 90s, and the Su-30s, which are a hundred years old at lunchtime, are being "vparivayut", as they plow the sky in China and India.

[twviewer]

Quote: tomket

Su-30s who are a hundred years old at lunch, as they plow the skies of China and India.

in Indian sou Israeli containers, and on our shish with oil :)

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: tomket

Well then, let’s be indignant about the fact that both the Su-34s of the 90s, and the Su-30s, which are a hundred years old at lunchtime, are being "vparivayut", as they plow the sky in China and India.

That's right, all of these aircraft were developed in the USSR and all of the modifications you listed are just variations on the Su-27 and MiG-29.
But propaganda is propaganda. yesterday, in general, from the highest rostrum, it was weeded out that We had raised the GDP by almost 2 times !!!
I was ah ... very surprised.

[NEXUS]

Quote: tomket

Well then, let’s be indignant about the fact that both the Su-34s of the 90s, and the Su-30s, which are a hundred years old at lunchtime, are being "vparivayut", as they plow the sky in China and India.

And as a result of the crisis of the 90s, we didn’t have other equipment ... and therefore we have to rejoice at what we have. In the USSR 15 republics worked for the defense industry, and here Russia alone with the Gorbachevs, the Yeltsin drunkards and fraternal friendship in the 90s with It’s clear that all of these planes are from the USSR, but on the destroyed and stolen plan to count on creating something really new, to put it mildly strange. It’s good that they began to rearm, rather than flying on the Su-27 and Mig-29 of the first series.
Best regards

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: NEXUS

It’s good that they began to rearm, and do not fly on the Su-27 and MiG-29 of the first series.

Greetings!
Throughout this story, it infuriates the fact that the modernized developments of the USSR are given out as a breakthrough of the Eltsin-Putin economy, and the absence of an economic development plan and even hints of elementary planning and a development strategy are passed off as a good idea.
In this regard, yesterday's news about the return of Kudrin to a senior position in the presidential administration is shocking.

[NEXUS]

Quote: ANTI.KORR.

In this regard, yesterday's news about the return of Kudrin to a senior position in the presidential administration is shocking.

Good time of day .For me, all these Chubais, curly, Serdyukov and other managers with a filthy broom need to be driven not only from posts, but also from the country.

[varov14]

So these are the companions who will push him into the pit faster, some man will mesmerize, sorry for the poor fellow, no way soon.

[Shmal_]

Well, in the coming years, why fly something? The T-50 will not be ready for several more years! And this is a modernized small fighter, which on Kuznetsovo will fit a third more than the Su-33!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: GSH-18

Again, the old ones are being pushed instead of immediately developing the deck version of the T-50 (PAK FA).

meaning? while they are doing, "Kuzya" will rot ...

[GSH-18]

I have a legitimate question. Well, our deck pilots are preparing, this is very good! But where are our aircraft carriers, then? Rather, when these pilots will be able to take up their real combat duty as part of the Russian aircraft carrier group ?? Here is what is interesting.

[Denis Skiff]

We will take away the rabble behind the puddle

[lelikas]

Quote: GSH-18

But where are our aircraft carriers, then?

They are not, not at all, not even a project, respectively, the next 15-20 years they will not physically appear. Alas.

[GSH-18]

Quote: lelikas

Quote: GSH-18

But where are our aircraft carriers, then?

They are not, not at all, not even a project, respectively, the next 15-20 years they will not physically appear. Alas.

The fact of the matter is that the project IS! And not one. I don’t know what the problem is there, either in money or in political brakes? ..
BUT! If we are not going to build Aircraft carriers, then what if we need deck pilots and deck aircraft ???
Or work is already underway, but in secret?

[Lex69Rus]

Dear about what nagging? In modern realities, a new aircraft carrier is not exactly the task of this 10th anniversary and possibly not the next. The real project is to modernize Kuznetsov to the maximum, taking into account the Indian aircraft carrier and equipping a full-fledged air group MiG29 cu.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Leks69Rus

The real project is to modernize Kuznetsov to the maximum, taking into account the Indian aircraft carrier and equipping a full-fledged air group MiG29 cu.

1. To make a normal aircraft carrier out of galoshes is unrealistic and much more expensive than making a new one according to a new project, which will have a further possibility of modernization. Moreover, we need more than one aircraft carrier.
2. The "full-fledged air group from the MIG-29KUB" sounds very strange
Valuable for what?
A normal carrier-based aircraft carrier group includes several (more than two) different aircraft. Including helicopters, AWACS and drones. An aircraft carrier aircraft group can have up to 90 different aircraft. Where can I put all this on Kuz? It needs to be doubled for this. Then, the duration of his voyage is 30 days. That is, it is not suitable for ocean crossings. Why sculpt candy from guano? It is necessary to build a normal aircraft carrier on a new project.

[lelikas]

Quote: GSH-18

The fact of the matter is that the project IS! And not one. I don’t know what the problem is there, either in money or in political brakes? ..
BUT! If we are not going to build Aircraft carriers, then what if we need deck pilots and deck aircraft ???
Or work is already underway, but in secret?

A project is not a wooden mockup, which any mocker will do in hundreds, it’s tons of drawings and kilo-hours of work of shipbuilders of KB, distinct TK from the fleet, but for now all this is not.

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: lelikas

They are not, not at all, not even a project, respectively, the next 15-20 years they will not physically appear. Alas.

And yet there is no factory where aircraft carriers can be built.
And from all of the above, that real full-fledged aircraft carriers with modern economic policy will never appear ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: ANTI.KORR.

And yet there is no factory where aircraft carriers can be built.

Shipyards ... the only shipyard that was for the construction of such ships remained in Ukraine, in Nikolaev. Yes, and the experience of building such ships is simply wasted and forgotten. It's simple to say - "we will build", but how long have we been building ships of much smaller displacement for decades ...
And there are no capacities like those in the USSR. In the USSR, there were 24 defense enterprises, and in Russia there were only 000.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: GSH-18

I have a legitimate question. Well, our deck pilots are preparing, this is very good! But where are our aircraft carriers, then? Rather, when these pilots will be able to take up their real combat duty as part of the Russian aircraft carrier group ?? Here is what is interesting.

with almost fifty designed vehicles, on the "Kuz" there are as many as a dozen, we have an aircraft carrier group, this is actually aircraft carrier, + UAV "Admiral Chabanenko", tugboat and three tankers. Along the way, the patrol boat "Yaroslav the Wise" and the tanker from Baltiysk, and the patrol boat "Ladny" from Sevastopol will do. All this is called a shipborne "aircraft carrier group" ... but for me it is, to put it mildly, a shame of a great country ... the aircraft carrier group looks something like this: (pictured). Unfortunately, we will not shine for half a century ...

[mvg]

The TV channel "Zvezda", for our cosmodrome "marshal", already needs to come up with some kind of freelance position. I am still at a loss with the name. Something that turns out to be offensive
I’ll go consult with Discovery.
And the assembly technology (with a hammer of self-tapping screws), we have always been debugged to "..yat" (I still do not understand, either "by five", or I mean "fuck")

[Duke]

MiG-29K ship fighter

[Tor5]

By the way, little by little you can push "Kuznetsov" towards Syria!

[mvg]

By the way, little by little you can push "Kuznetsov" towards Syria!

Did you mean to drive a couple of tugboats, put a field kitchen and move this canned food to Mediterranean? It’s even warm there, but the Kuzi with autonomous heat is “crappy”, and even in the Northern Fleet winter is just around the corner ..
And you won’t put a heater in the cabin (the on-board network is not 220/50 there). But there is not enough buzuyuk for everyone.
If you are in this sense (worried about 1500 sailors), then I'm FOR and plus!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: mvg

Did you mean that a pair of tugboats

plus 2-3 tankers ... the strike force will be.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Tor5

By the way, little by little you can push "Kuznetsov" towards Syria!

he should go to kapitalku with modernization, you are our admiral ...

[mvg]

What are we going to upgrade?
The engines don't change, only with the project. (Although there was one here on the forum, grit on "de Gaulle" the diesels on the nuclear plant gave up on good mood), and this is almost the most important thing.
The hull is unsuccessful, it is necessary to put catapults and a flat deck.
Although they removed 12 anti-ship missiles (not everyone knows the truth about this, this is a GS-18 stone in your garden), but the vacated place was used stupidly.
The wing is unsuccessful. Su-25UTG and MiG-29K (Su-33 will be written off soon). Modernization is also not subject to.
This canned food has long been put on needles. Not a single successful military campaign, just repairs and a ton of maintenance money. And they were built (1143) in Nikolaevka .. over the hill now.
Price / quality - nowhere worse.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: PSih2097

for capital with modernization it’s time for him,

and maybe it’s not worth it ... a super-expensive non-combat unit, with a dozen aircraft. who will scare them? now it would be useful in Middle Sea, a real AUG, and not this parody of an aircraft carrier, with a tug and tankers.

[aleksfill]

It would be nice if the aircraft from the cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" received a combat
experience in the Mediterranean off the coast of Syria striking ISIS. That would be
invaluable experience for our sun.

[NDR-791]

Unfortunately, no matter how much you teach, but one "Kuznetsov" is not enough !!! Also, if anything, Shoigu recalled the development of funds in shipbuilding. Why are we building the unknown to the world? A stand such ground for training pilots "K" from the beginning of the seventies it was in Yeisk and was.

[GSH-18]

Quote: aleksfill

It would be nice if the aircraft from the cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" received a combat
experience in the Mediterranean off the coast of Syria striking ISIS. That would be
invaluable experience for our sun.

Kuzi has a different purpose. Kuzya is not a strike aircraft carrier but TAKR. It is effective as a cover for naval formations and itself. For massive land strikes is not intended, a small air group, consisting mainly of Mig-29K fighters, the absence of AWACS aircraft.
You can of course try to plow the field on the tank, but the result will be corresponding ...
And so we are with these deck pilots, like a shoemaker without boots
In short, Russia needs an Aircraft Carrier. And preferably yesterday!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: aleksfill

That would be
invaluable experience for our sun.

it would be an unreasonably huge and costly experience for our budget. The efficiency is extremely low.

[GSH-18]

To train the flight crew in its use, the construction of a ground-based training complex in Yeysk continues. There are no similar complexes in our country.»

And where, then, is Yeysk ??? In America or something ?? And the simulator "thread" in the Crimea ??

The aircraft’s armament includes air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, unguided missiles, corrected aerial bombs, aerial bombs, and a built-in 30-mm gun.

Clearly, the main work will have to do on any Su-33. A much greater combat load and the possibility of suspension of anti-ship missiles.

[max702]

Quote: GSH-18

Clearly, the main work will have to do on any Su-33. A much greater combat load and the possibility of suspension of anti-ship missiles.

It’s not sad to say this, but the RCC cannot be suspended from the SU-33 .. He generally has problems with armament, someone made a mistake somewhere and sits down on the deck with ammunition; he cannot stand it ..

[dyksi]

Here is the information in the topic.

[GSH-18]

Quote: max702

It’s not sad to say this, but RCC cannot be suspended from the SU-33 .. He has generally problems with weapons

Quote: max702

sits down with ammunition on the deck, he cannot but stand it ..

So who has problems? Su-33 or "deck"?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: max702

He generally has problems with armament. Someone made a mistake somewhere and sits down on deck with ammunition.

In great secret - this is not one decker should not do. Carefully forbidden

[GSH-18]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: max702

He generally has problems with armament. Someone made a mistake somewhere and sits down on deck with ammunition.

In great secret - this is not one decker should not do. Carefully forbidden

Hi Andrew!
Naturally! RCC combat to the fighter-bomber just do not cling

[mvg]

Andrei, just don’t say that all the Phoenixes with which the F-14 tomcat climbed, let’s say, were shot back .. before landing. And he took them and 6 pcs at a time. The overhead flight, however, turned out.

And Harpoon AGM-84 - by weight, is very similar to AIM-54. Do you really think that Hornets and Harpoon Intruders fly only one way? Here are staffers - handsome, they don’t spare any attendants for training pilots.
You also deceive marshals. Not ashamed?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: mvg

Andrei, just don’t say that all the Phoenixes with which the F-14 tomcat climbed, let's say, were shooting back ..

Did a lot of them rise? Generally speaking, the Phoenix turned out to be so expensive that they were not given to combat pilots.

Quote: mvg

And Harpoon AGM-84 - by weight, is very similar to AIM-54. Do you really think that Hornets and Harpoon Intruders fly only one way?

Yes, that's exactly what I think. No one will hang a military missile because you live well, it must either be disposed of during the departure, or before boarding the deck.

Quote: mvg

You also deceive marshals. Not ashamed?

No, because if I’m cheating, it’s not from evil. But I really believe that decks are prohibited from landing with ammunition. I admit that I could be wrong.

[Mera joota]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Yes, that's exactly what I think. No one will hang a military missile because you live well, it must either be disposed of during the departure, or before boarding the deck.

Well, it doesn’t always work out ...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

You made a convincing argument, I admit my mistake. Thank! Thanks to you, I now know more than before.

[Mera joota]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You made a convincing argument, I admit my mistake. Thank! Thanks to you, I now know more than before.

Why yarnichat. The fact that landing with weapons is prohibited is not a secret, but it happens. They also land with PTB and hanging equipment, so dumping into the sea whatever the POD is is very expensive ...

[Scraptor]

Tanks are usually dumped like warheads, especially of high power. Nobody needs to hit their own aircraft carrier with their own bomb

[tomket]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

In great secret - this is not one decker should not do. Carefully forbidden

Super hornet can do. For him, the fleet itself was seized, because it was too unprofitable to sink missiles after each patrol.

[Mera joota]

Quote: max702

It’s not sad to say this, but the RCC cannot be suspended from the SU-33 .. He generally has problems with armament, someone made a mistake somewhere and sits down on the deck with ammunition; he cannot stand it ..

You didn’t quite correctly put it, giving rise to a lot of comments. The Su-33 has restrictions on landing mass, because the Kuzi deck was not designed for aircraft of such mass. After the tests and the first years of operation, a deflection of the deck was discovered. After that (and the repair), restrictions were imposed on the landing mass, which destroyed the Su-33M, which was so heavy that they even wanted to dismantle the air gun, but it still did not fit. By the way, this became the main reason why the air wing was not equipped, it did not make sense ...
And all greed is indefatigable of one design bureau acting not for the interests of the motherland, but for the sake of its own benefit ...

[Scraptor]

So after the tests or the first years of operation?
Restrictions were imposed on the landing mass of the Su-33, and this made it heavier!

Today is April 1st? Systemically continuous rubbish, town here, Messrs. Trolls ...

[mvg]

GS-18 (5) RU Today, 20:25 ↑

To train the flight crew in its use, the construction of a ground-based training complex in Yeysk continues. There are no similar complexes in our country ”

And where, then, is Yeisk located ??? belay In America or what ?? laughing And the thread simulator in the Crimea ??
The aircraft’s armament includes air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, unguided missiles, corrected aerial bombs, aerial bombs, and a built-in 30-mm gun.

Clearly, the main work will have to do on any Su-33. A much greater combat load and the possibility of suspension of anti-ship missiles.

Admiral, a couple of questions? The title is not allowed, but in an informal setting ..
1. Why in Syria RCC? There, it seems, there are not many rivers on which bearded people sail in boats.
2. What kind of anti-ship missiles are you going to hang on the Su-33? (a hint for the top command staff whether they exist at all in Russia).
3. How much does the Su-33 lift more combat load than the Mig-29K from the ramp of an aircraft carrier (by the way, it doesn’t work on the ground).
And the last question: Is it time to sit down to do homework? Mom doesn't scream?

[GSH-18]

Quote: mvg

Admiral, a couple of questions? The title is not allowed, but in an informal setting ..
1. Why in Syria RCC? There, it seems, there are not many rivers on which bearded people sail in boats.

It’s free, Major.
This is not a question for me. I did not offer to use aviation anti-ship missiles in Syria.

Quote: mvg

2. What kind of anti-ship missiles are you going to hang on the Su-33? (a hint for the top command staff whether they exist in Russia at all)

I rated the joke There is one (at least) BraMos called. Together with the Indians, an aviation version for Su was developed.

Quote: mvg

3. How much does the Su-33 lift more combat load than the Mig-29K from the ramp of an aircraft carrier (by the way, it doesn’t work on the ground).

Dear, have you ever seen these planes near? Well, at least the MiG-29 and Su-27? If so, then I do not need to explain anything further.

[mvg]

I did not offer to use aviation anti-ship missiles in Syria.

perform Su-33 in any way. A much greater combat load and the possibility of suspension of anti-ship missiles.

BrahMos called. Together with the Indians, an aviation version for Su was developed.

Imagine the aviation version even in MOST INDIA does not fly !! Oh how. A thickish bastard is obtained, and the Su-30MKI is flimsy. This is the time.
And secondly, are you serious that Russia is going to buy "Brahmoses"? Helping develop and buying for your needs is different.

Have you ever seen these planes near?

Imagine a little Rafaelka (what a wonderful word) empty mass of 9 tons, drag, a bastard, more than a specially trained Su-34 bomber, empty mass of 24 tons.
And the Su-33 also has a restriction, when taking off from the deck ... He would just raise his "carcass".

Yes, and about the lessons

Just don’t say that homework is not set! The middle of the week!

[Scraptor]

Quote: CERHJ

Are you a goner?

everyone has understood about you for a long time ... whose Rafale "quotations" are higher, not only the MiG-29, but even the Su-27

[Scraptor]

Again, deliberately left the blacklist to put "-", and then hid in it again?

[Nick]

Quote: oleg-gr

Studying in Yeysk, and then applying skills in Syria with Kuznetsov. Additional forces are very necessary there.

In any case, the running-in of a new aviation complex in combat conditions would not be superfluous ...

[GSH-18]

Quote: Nick

In any case, the running-in of a new aviation complex in combat conditions would not be superfluous ...

Extra for WHAT? Judging by the words of Shoigu and all these preparations with carrier-based aircraft and pilots, the conclusion suggests itself. We will build aircraft carriers.

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: GSH-18

the conclusion suggests itself. We will build aircraft carriers.

Are you serious ???!
The bearded anecdote reminds ... about modeling a fireman from clay
There is already a runoff of questions ... where will we build, who will build, what kind of chiches will we build?
While we were trying to acquire the frog "barges-M", since we cannot build ourselves ...
Or are you going to build aircraft carriers in South Korea?
Now the Russian Federation can not build a single ship of the 1st rank, with the current approach, it can neither tomorrow, nor after tomorrow ..
We now have ships of the coastal zone without propulsion, which 40 years ago "baked like cakes" without any fanfare, and now the launching of a rocket boat is already an event of a universal scale.

[Denis Obukhov]

The Russian ship-based fighter MiG-29K is one of those aircraft, whose fate is somewhat reminiscent of the story of the legendary bird Phoenix. Launched back in the days of the Soviet Union, the program for creating a fundamentally new aircraft for domestic naval aviation - deck-based with a springboard takeoff and landing on an aerofinisher - almost collapsed into oblivion after the collapse of the country, but was revived at the beginning of the new millennium. First, in the interests of a foreign customer, and now with the MiG-29K they connect the future of carrier-based aviation and the Russian Navy.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Denis Obukhov

and now the future of carrier-based aviation and the Russian Navy is connected with the MiG-29K.

MiG-29K is a transitional stage of naval aviation. Here we went along the path of the French, who placed Rafali's lungs on their AVU Charles Degol.
And the future lies with the multi-functional aircraft of catapult take-off and aerofinishing landing. But it will be the wing of the new Russian aircraft carrier!

[newcomer]

it is very pleasing that, finally, after betting exclusively on su, they realized that this is the moment. I watched the lead pilot test kb say “for a moment 29 I’ll make any plane. By the way, according to Western pilots, Mig29 is a celestial killer.

[dyksi]

Here is some information on the car, a cool fighter.

[Tektor]

Yes, this is the pinnacle of technical thought. Super weapon. They have no equal. With such MiGs, no NATO is afraid of us. They would be on guard for our potential partners, just in case a fireman.

[chunga-changa]

construction of a ground training complex in Yeysk continues. There are no similar complexes in our country.

About "THREAD" in Saki, citizen Shoigu apparently does not know, or maybe he does not refer Crimea to our country?

[KBR109]

Since the time of T. Apakidze they’re mastering, but they won’t master everything.

[Wedmak]

The complex in Yeysk is much more perfect and universal. They also wanted to build a simulator for helicopter pilots. Therefore, there are no analogues in the country.

[tomket]

Quote: chunga-changa

About "THREAD" in Saki, citizen Shoigu apparently does not know, or maybe he does not refer Crimea to our country?

Actually, we began to build an analogue of "Thread" long before "Crimea is our". Shoigu is still not a wang, but must conduct training.

[Maksus]

I don’t understand something, or do we still have a couple of aircraft carriers in ambush? Kuzya is equipped with something like that, the equipment for Sushki has been trained, where should MiG go?

[Rurikovich]

Drying is more difficult, which also contributes to the durability of the deck. And the resource is also not eternal, it expires. Therefore, they switch to lighter and newer "29s".
My personal opinion is that if you use an aircraft carrier in the manner in which it was supposed to be used, and these are air defense and anti-aircraft defense formations, this replacement will not affect the performance of the aircraft carrier.
As a striking unit (like "Nimitz") "Kuznetsov will be weaker, and more can be done from land airfields than from an aircraft carrier. But you need to cope with your immediate responsibilities. So the replacement should not fundamentally change the capabilities. it is new in Africa too.

[Maksus]

There was evidence that the 29 / 35 glider is weak and this is in the land version, what will happen to the sea?

[Reserve buildbat]

And in the photo is a CUBE with a KAB-500Kr. Combat training, but with such "toys" - class)))

[Dam]

More planes are good and different

[Dam]

And the banter here doesn’t seem to understand

[zekaze1980]

MiGs have forgotten to put it mildly, but in vain, someone’s interests are visible only to the design bureau dry, and apparently the financial interests are in the first place. With advice, it was not in vain that there was a competition between different design bureaus, do you think ...?

[dauria]

With advice, it was not in vain that there was a competition between different design bureaus, do you think ...?

Not in vain, and Mig once completely lost to Sushka. General made a mistake by making him small and ... twin-engine. Single engine F-16 has the same engineas the twin-engine F-15. This brutally cheapened both cars and allowed them to conquer the market. (They are doing the same trick with a pair of F-35 F-22s) on aircraft carriers. And the Mikoyanites were just late. Now let them compete on paper, iron is too expensive even for Americans.

[mvg]

Don’t tell anyone else, okay? This is a state secret.
If you almost guessed right with F-16 and F-15 (F100, F101 aka F110), and then there are options like on Korean F104 and there are not only general speakers, but also Pratt and Vitni, and more exotic ones. And, probably, there is a lot of interchangeability (and I doubt it), then in the version with F-22 and F-35 this is complete crap (F119 and F135). Aircraft are similar in mass - this time. And I don’t want to go deep about nozzles, take-offs, modes ..
F-18 Bumblebee, engine F404.
PS: Do not repeat after someone else, read it yourself .. before you write. The price tags for American planes are really "tasty", but for a different reason .. Just look how many F-16s were made (3 thousand in the USA alone, and also in Turkey, the Netherlands, Japan, Belgium), how many F-35s are planned (thousands 3 will be, or even more). And how many will go into the T-50 series .. (200 pieces, together with export) You better dance from here. Our planes are like Rolls-Royces, piece goods, hand-assembled!

[viktor561]

Quote: zekaze1980

MiGs forgot to say the least

Yes, not to put it mildly, but roughly speaking - they lobbied for one Sukhoi corporation - without competition - this is a betrayal - under the USSR there was a huge competition and due to this our Air Force grew in quality! Where Migi, YAK, TU, IL - one Sukhoi - horror!

[excomandante]

Right. The Yak-141 was immediately remembered, it seemed to be a promising machine.

[Scraptor]

Dry to do with it.

[NEXUS]

Apparently they’re doing it with an eye for export. The MIG Design Bureau has a lot of work, starting from the development of the MIG-41 (5th generation interceptor with speed characteristics of 4,5 max), and ending with the 5th generation LFI (they announced that they had raised the MIG-1.44 documentation and it is based on the initiative of making a new fighter). As well as numerous upgrades to the existing fleet, and export.

[zekaze1980]

I read an article about Mig-1.44, like the Chinese are making their own aircraft from this project, but in the union they began to develop it, I can be wrong, at 79. The bottom line is that the groundwork was such that without interrupting development, our aircraft could probably go into space now.

[NEXUS]

Quote: zekaze1980

I read an article about Mig-1.44, like the Chinese are making their own aircraft from this project, but in the union they began to develop it, I can be wrong, at 79. The bottom line is that the groundwork was such that without interrupting development, our aircraft could probably go into space now.

The problem is that the MiG-1.44 is already "outdated" at the prototype stage, since it did not meet the requirements of the 5th generation fighter. And it is not very correct to consider it as an LFI, rather an MFI.

[tomket]

Quote: NEXUS

The problem is that the MiG-1.44 was already "outdated" at the prototype stage, as it did not meet the requirements of the 5th generation fighter.

And what is outdated? Didn't it look like a "raptor" like a T-50? "Typhoon" with the same scheme does not seem to be outdated, and is even being successfully sold.

[NEXUS]

Quote: tomket

And what is outdated?

Because in 1986, when the development of the new MIG-1.42 IFI (product 5.12) was in full swing, work began on the new 5th generation fighter in the USA, in the tender of which it participated
two firms Lockheed and Northrop ... and in 1997, while our car was "gathering dust" due to underfunding, a domestic competitor to this MIG also appeared, the Sukhov SU-37 "BERKUT", which was lifted into the air in 1997 And by the 97th year in fact, the lag of the Migovsk program from the American ATF was approximately 8-10 years.
The aircraft was shown on January 12, 1999 in the LII under the designation MIG-1.42. But it did not make much impression on the assembled people, although at the subsequent press conference they announced this aircraft as a ready-made serial fighter (although this was not so).
Omitting all the details, they closed the program due to low funding.
If financing would initially be in the proper volume, without failures and delays, we would think the 5th generation MFI would have appeared earlier than the Americans. But time was lost and the technologies of the future new generation fighter were already being developed on Berkut.
The reason for the "obsolescence" of the program is banal and predictable, if you pay attention that all this happened in the 90s, the lack of proper funding.
Best regards

[urik62]

Quote: oleg-gr

Studying in Yeysk, and then applying skills in Syria with Kuznetsov. Additional forces are very necessary there.

HA HA Just to write something

[maximon2005]

Yes, soon everyone will be MiG-29k, Su-33 are dying out and they are no longer being made.

[Izotovp]

With all due respect to the MIG planes, the Kuzza has too little air wing to base light fighters. Most recently, some of the experts on this site have already argued. Much more useful on it are light AWACS aircraft, hunters for submarines and Mi-14.

[tomket]

Quote: Izotovp

AWACS aircraft,

and what will AWACS planes do there? to aim the Mi-14 at the Hornets?

[Izotovp]

What do ordinary AWACS aircraft do?

[Shadowcat]

Fortunately, there is a choice (Krasnodar, Crimea). Although, unfortunately, I doubt the latter, I don’t tear it like an ass, don’t shove it with electrical tape - and the equipment needs repair.

[Mountain shooter]

Yes, a great plane. Poghosyan lobbied his design bureau, pushed aside, or, better to say, pushed aside, competitors, scrubbed off the trough - and he went too far, the sawmaker. And Mig is really like a phoenix. Almost according to Bulgakov - "Manuscripts do not burn"!

[tinibar]

[quote = zekaze1980] MiGs have forgotten to put it mildly, but in vain, someone’s interests are visible only to the design bureau dry, and apparently the financial interests are in the first place. With the advice, it was not in vain that there was a competition between different design bureaus, what do you think ...? This order supported Mikoyanovites in difficult times, I really want to believe that the design bureau will survive. And competition is necessary, and in Soviet times it was well understood. Any kind of mergers, acquisitions, unions, in a word monopolization, first of all leads to the suppression of any ideas of the affiliated enterprises in order to move their own, if not the best, if only grandmothers and glory to their beloved. And as a result, we get not the best aircraft, but for fabulous money .. In the USA the same situation .. By the way, the Tu-160 was the development of a small Myasishchev design bureau, which was transferred to the Tupolev design bureau, a larger, wealthier and more famous. Those, having finalized the project, and launched it already as a Tu-160, collecting both grandmother and fame. And Myasishchev’s design bureau has since completely wilted ...

[Yak28]

The plane is of course excellent, but we do not have air carriers, one small aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" which only makes people laugh. Where will such planes be based? Just now, India and China can be sold

[viktor561]

Undoubtedly, the MiG-29 is one of the most successful fighters of the Soviet era. Its uniqueness lies in the fact that it can fly at large angles of attack. In order to hit a rocket, or abruptly go up, the pilot can pull leverage beyond the limiters, which is not available to the western counterparts of the fighter. - and the speed just allows you to fly away from any missile - the Israelis did not hit a single MIG-7 during the 29-day war - it just flies away from the rocket - Israeli pilots reported

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: viktor561

Undoubtedly, the MiG-29 is one of the most successful fighters of the Soviet era

And there is.

Quote: viktor561

Its uniqueness lies in the fact that it can fly at large angles of attack.

Can.

Quote: viktor561

To hit a rocket

It’s scary to even ask what the pilot should hit her with. Or are you in the sense that the missile, having seen what a big angle the MiG-29K will be struck to the core, and will never, never fly to attack such a dude?

Quote: viktor561

the pilot can pull leverage beyond the limiters, which is not available to the western counterparts of the fighter

You have an extremely misconception about supercritical angles of attack.

Quote: viktor561

and the speed just allows you to fly away from any rocket

Google the speed of a modern air-to-air missile. For AMRAAM, this is Mach 4, for our P-77 it is about the same. Can you tell me the speed of the MiG-29K, or find it yourself?

Quote: viktor561

the Israelis during the 7 day war did not bring down a single MIG-29

What kind of war? Seven day? Maybe six days, after all? So it actually broke out in 1967 when the MiG-29 was not in the project.

Quote: viktor561

he just flies away from the rocket

Sorry, but judging by the text of your comment, if someone flew away, this is not a MiG-29

[viktor561]

Sorry - reposted the Soviet pilot http://avia.pro/blog/samolet-mig-29-istoriya- claim there - are you a pilot or what? (if someone flew away here, then this is not MiG-29) - well, it's just rudeness

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: viktor561

Sorry - re-post the Soviet pilot

on the exiled signature no ... leftist?

[Cis-Urals]

I might be wrong too, but you probably meant all the same 25 seconds.

[viktor561]

Of course! - and thank you very much for the amendment and not for the rudeness that the marshals from the couch practice here!

[geolive]

Naturally, with our finances, a full-fledged aircraft carrier cannot be pulled. Kuzya is more like an experimental site. It's good at least that we're just going forward. You look from time to time and the budget will increase. You can't buy experience and don't drink it up.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Briefly about the main thing :)))
The construction of the complex in Yeysk suggests that Kuznetsov is going to build a replacement sooner or later, and this, of course, is good.
The reason for replacing the Su-33 with the MiG-29K is simple and banal - the existing Su-33 fleet is small and worn out (apparently the heavy nineties affected), and there is no one to build new such aircraft for. Theoretically, maybe the production of the Su-33 could have been reanimated, but practically this is associated with high costs, and they would have had to deal with the release of other models of Su fighters. To make such sacrifices for the sake of a small batch of generally obsolete aircraft does not make any sense, as, indeed, to refine the Su-33 project to a modern level.
At the same time, we have a much more modern MiG-29k. The fact is that the other MiG-33K (29-9) was the analogue of the Su-31, which tried to challenge Kuznetsov’s deck at that time - at that time it was aircraft of the same technological level and the Su-33 won (you can argue about the reasons for the victory, but not about that) As a result, it was Su-33 that were built for Kuznetsov, and the MiG-29K stalled. But then the Indians came, and for them they created an improved MiG-29K (9-41), one might say, a marine analog of the MiG-29M.
Accordingly, there is no point in reviving the construction of the 33th generation Su-4 when we have a ready-made 4+ carrier-based aircraft. As an air supremacy fighter, it is inferior to the Su-33, but it is versatile and has the ability to work on sea and land targets. In addition, the order for naval MiGs will be supported by RSK MiG, which is again very useful.
In general, after the re-equipment, the Kuznetsov air wing will become much more versatile and our one and only aircraft carrier (especially if the long-promised modernization is rolled over to it) will finally be able to become a full-fledged warship. Several Su-33s, which could be used for air patrols (fortunately, they can carry a lot of fuel, but stay in the air for a long time) and a couple of dozen MiG-29K station wagons are a very serious force. Of course, you can't argue against “Nimitz”, but you can already compete with the same “Charlie”.

[Kalmar]

All this is undoubtedly very good. But here's another question: is there a project for a carrier-based aircraft AWACS? Without it, an aircraft carrier and half of its potential will not reveal.

[mvg]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: viktor561

Undoubtedly, the MiG-29 is one of the most successful fighters of the Soviet era

And there is.

Quote: viktor561

Its uniqueness lies in the fact that it can fly at large angles of attack.

Can.

Quote: viktor561

To hit a rocket

It’s scary to even ask what the pilot should hit her with. Or are you in the sense that the missile, having seen what a big angle the MiG-29K will be struck to the core, and will never, never fly to attack such a dude?

Quote: viktor561

the pilot can pull leverage beyond the limiters, which is not available to the western counterparts of the fighter

You have an extremely misconception about supercritical angles of attack.

Quote: viktor561

and the speed just allows you to fly away from any rocket

Google the speed of a modern air-to-air missile. For AMRAAM, this is Mach 4, for our P-77 it is about the same. Can you tell me the speed of the MiG-29K, or find it yourself?

Quote: viktor561

the Israelis during the 7 day war did not bring down a single MIG-29

What kind of war? Seven day? Maybe six days, after all? So it actually broke out in 1967 when the MiG-29 was not in the project.

Quote: viktor561

he just flies away from the rocket

Sorry, but judging by the text of your comment, if someone flew away, this is not a MiG-29

Andrei - You are just GAD with a capital letter ..
So mocking is NOT !!!
But the guy is still right. In the Arab-Israeli wars, not a single MiG-29 was shot down, just like the penguins, during the filming, were not injured.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: mvg

Andrei - You are just GAD with a capital letter.

Yes, I am like this

Quote: mvg

So mocking is NOT !!!

But can I write such comments?

Quote: mvg

But the guy is still right. In the Arab-Israeli wars, not a single MiG-29 was shot down

Did not have. And in which particular Arab-Israeli MiG-29 participated?

[yury.puzirev201221]

GSH-18! If "Kuznetsov" is temporarily absent, that is, the deck of "Charles" will be pressed, we are now allies!

[mvg]

Andrey from Chelyabinsk (2) RU Today, 21:44

Briefly about the main thing :)))

Well, "de Gaulle", of course, "Kuzi" on the shoulder ..
And, although the frog is inferior to the Kuzza in terms of displacement (40000 versus 54000) it is clearly more interesting.
He has a nuclear power plant (a lot of electricity and range), and Kuzi has an ancient boiler turbine, with the most unfortunate that we had in the fleet. Bricks and asbestos - quiet horror, like in my bathhouse ..
"Gaulle" has 2 catapults, SuperEthanders, and AWACS planes - a couple of pieces. Rafal-M is a very successful 4 ++ fighter, very good armament, both air-to-air and air-to-surface. MATRA, METEOR ..
Mig-29K is probably not bad ... But 4 tons of load, versus 9 tons of frogs.
The French AFAR, avionics, on an aircraft carrier, on airplanes.
And, as it were, the French AUG turns out to be noticeably more balanced. Horizons, LaFayettes, nuclear submarines .. We do not have such a class of ships that can really compete with the French.
Destroyers 956 of the project are simply sucks at the moment, 1155 BODs are also already old, our frigates quietly rust on the stocks, waiting for German or Chinese dviglov. We do not have AWACS, Yak did not bring to mind.
So I do not advise you to compete with the frogs in their native puddle in the Mediterranean.

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: mvg

So I do not advise you to compete with the frogs in their native puddle in the Mediterranean.

well painted everything!
It should also be noted that frog avionics were installed on our fighters.

[Scraptor]

Everything was brought to mind with the Yak-141, there is no need to sculpt a "hunchback" ... Rafal can do nothing against the MiG-29, and even more so against the Su-33.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

I answer the points :)

Quote: mvg

Well, "de Gaulle", of course, "Kuzi" on the shoulder ..

Just get ships of about the same weight category (not in the displacement, of course :))

Quote: mvg

And, although the frog is inferior to the Kuzza in terms of displacement (40000 versus 54000), it is clearly more interesting

But how to say ... formally, and on paper performance characteristics it is of course. But in reality, it is possible that the situation is different. One of the most important indicators of an aircraft carrier is the area of ​​the flight deck - it is there that the air group prepared for departure is located, more than there is on the deck from an aircraft carrier in one flight will not take off. So de Gaulle's small size plays a cruel joke with him. I agree that the Rafal-M will be more interesting than the MiG-29K, but it is very possible that at the same time these same rafals from the "Charlie" can be raised much less than from the "Kuzmich". Look at the British - they have an aircraft carrier of 40 thousand tons for an air group of 65 aircraft. It is not just that - the size of the flight deck will allow for the lifting of an air group larger than Kuznetsov or Charlie can.
Of course, on the other hand, "Charlie" has catapults, so it will probably raise the air group faster. But on the whole, offhand, the "aircraft performance" of the ships, adjusted for some superiority of the Rafals, is still close to parity.

Quote: mvg

The French AFAR, avionics, on an aircraft carrier, on airplanes.

Well, what is their AFAR? Since 2012, AFAR has been deployed on Rafali, the aircraft carriers Rafal-M seemed to have entered service much earlier. Or they were modernized, but I do not know?

Quote: mvg

And, as it were, the French AUG turns out to be noticeably more balanced.

Don’t tell me.

Quote: mvg

Horizons, LaFayettes, nuclear submarines .. We do not have such a class of ships that can really compete with the French.

The Lord Proving is with you :))) What do the French have there? As many as TWO Horizont frigates? So this is not the British Daring with their super-radar Sampson "two in one" (which has two gratings operating in the decimeter and centimeter bands, respectively). This is just an EMPAR of the decimeter range - a frankly so-so combination, although PAAMS missiles are certainly good. In terms of their air defense capabilities, these two ships hardly correspond to one "Peter the Great". I generally keep quiet about the rest of the French ships - you can only shoot yourself from the Krotal air defense missile system in any serious naval battle.
At the same time, our AMG (with the inclusion of "Peter" and a pair of 949A) will have heavy anti-ship missiles capable of hitting surface targets (like the French AUG) from the European to African coast (the width of the Mediterranean Sea in many places is less than 1000 km), the French, with their "exosets", just nervously smoke on the sidelines. They only reached a range of 3 km on block 180, and it is not known how many such missiles are in service with the French Navy.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Lafayette is a coastal ship, with its 70 km range anti-ship missile and crotal against ocean-going ships. Just as our corvettes are not suitable, but the "Guardians" will probably be more serious (of course, no one is going to include them in the AMG, this is my theorizing) Submarines ... well, yes, Ruby is not bad, but this is the 70s - a little outdated, I do not think that they are opposed to the "Pike-B" complete with several 1155 they can do something.
So for the time being, exactly the opposite - if Kuznetsov were alive, then the Northern Fleet of the Russian Federation would be able to deploy such an AMG that would cover the French AUG like a bull to a sheep

Quote: mvg

So I do not advise you to compete with the frogs in their native puddle in the Mediterranean.

There they will support them from land, that's all

[mvg]

This is not mine, from someone else's forum, but I liked it

I call the phenomenon of today's Ukraine “Khokhlopadlovka”!

Judge for yourself:

1. Built in Yeysk Thread - Crimea returned with a simulator.

In fact, they spent billions of dollars in vain! (Zapadlo).

2. We reached the high pace of construction of the base in Novorossiysk -

Sevastopol and other Crimean bases returned.

Huge amount spent! (Zapadlo).

Question:

Land access to Crimea MV will be received earlier or later than construction

bridge to the Crimea?

*****

Yes, and the port on Taman is needed only due to lack of access

to the ports of today's Ukraine!

I'm not talking about the GTS ...

[Mantykora]

construction of a ground training complex in Yeysk continues. There are no similar complexes in our country ”

Not understood. And the THREAD complex in Crimea? I thought Russia now has two ground complexes for training carrier-based aviation. It is clear that THREAD is older, but is it not that old? When Crimea became part of Russia, I still thought "now there are two such complexes in one country, they started building early in Yeisk ..." Or did they disassemble the THREAD?

[ANTI.KORR.]

Quote: Mantykora

Or dismantled the thread?

"Thread" is alive and well.

[viktor561]

Quote: ANTI.KORR.

So I do not advise you to compete with the frogs in their native puddle in the Mediterranean.

Yes, and do not have to compete; they must be crushed - traitors through life - refute - they sold the missiles to Argentina and gave them the codes of England (Falklands) - further Mistrals - corrupt skins and that's it !!! (I am silent silently about the Second World War - they were sold to the Germans with giblets - except for rare patriots))

[viktor561]

Name at least one country in Europe that would not fight for Hitler - there is not one! Even the Swedish and Swiss battalions were - Russia - the enemy for Europe - by the fact that everything is there - but they don’t - it always makes them angry

[Vovan 73]

With all due respect to the MiG, replacing the Su-33 with the MiG is, in my opinion, a wrong move. Firstly, the functionality of Seabiscuit is wider, and secondly ..... The MiG-29 (when I served in the Air Force, in a regiment armed with Su-27) in the army was called - "an aircraft for combat over a short-range drive." A ship fighter, among other things, in my opinion should still have a good range in flight ...

[dchegrinec]

Somehow we undeservedly moved MiG aircraft and switched to heavy SU, this is certainly justified, but MiGs went in their original direction in the developments and they need to be supported. At the exit, the 5th generation MiG aircraft is a very advanced model!

[Burglary]

Gentlemen, Comrades, Bara!

And to be honest, think deeply. Do we need those aircraft carriers in the current realities? More relevant are vans with the inscription "Bread". Chubais alone caused more damage to the country than all NATO auges could have combined!

[Secta haki]

Both are needed.

[kovalev2015]

Good luck to you guys! So that the number of takeoffs matches the number of landings !!

[Raven2705]

Quote: Scraptor

And from firing from a low-speed 30mm gun (from which you can’t get on an airplane) it falls apart ...

In general, why is there a plane on the ship whose main and unique advantage over the Su-27 is that it can take off from unpaved strips, and which is inferior to it in everything else?

The MiG-29 is a good aircraft and, by the way, surpasses the Su-27 in maneuverability. The difference is that the MiG-29 is a short-range fighter (light), while the Su-27 is heavy. And on "Kuza" 29 it will be very much in the subject. In the latest modifications, including the MiG-35, it has been significantly improved. Learn materiel dear.

[Scraptor]

The Su-27 is better and more maneuverable ... The difference is that the MiG-29 can be based on unpaved strips, and everything else is sacrificed to this.

Teach yourself.

[Scraptor]

The Su-27 is better and more maneuverable ... The difference is that the MiG-29 can be based on unpaved strips, and everything else is sacrificed to this.

Teach yourself.