Military Review

Moscow will press on the pain points of Ankara

215



Turkish-American provocation made the whole world look into the future with dismay. There are grounds for alarm. You can risk making a prediction: there will be no war, but there will be such a struggle for peace, that there will be little left of the world.

Before proceeding to the analysis of possible areas of response to Russia, we must first understand what our opponents are trying to achieve. For this you can not stop the logical chain in Ankara. It must be remembered that in geopolitics there are practically no abandoned rabid dogs, especially since in the Turkish case the strings leading to Washington are visible to the naked eye.

After the start of the Russian operation in Syria, the irresponsible and patriotic part of the American elite, who would prefer to plunge the world into a nuclear war, but not abandon world hegemony, demanded that Obama organize a no-fly zone over Syria or at least part of Syria. This was demanded by McCain, this was demanded by Hillary Clinton and (most importantly) this was demanded by the main “brain” of American influential radicals - Robert Kagan (husband of Victoria Nuland).

The most stupid of the members of the deranged part of the American elite, Senator from South Carolina Lindsay Graham publicly statedthat “without exaggeration would shoot down” Russian planes in Syria if they threaten the forces that Washington supports.

Moreover, just a few days ago, Kagan demanded that the United States not only created a no-fly zone over the Syrian-Turkish border, but also created a “safe zone” for the “moderate opposition”, reinforcing it with the US military contingent of 30-50 thousand person. Program article Kagan, опубликованная in the Wall Street Journal on Saturday caused a sharply negative reaction from the sane part of the American political and military elite. Speaking very rudely, no one wanted to die for the sake of "Kagan and his friends." It is very likely that “Kagan and his friends”, having lost the opportunity to use the Pentagon as their personal PMCs, decided to switch to the traditional plan B - namely, to use their Turkish puppets, in the same style and format as Kiev political dolls like Yatsenyuk are used and Dzhemilev. Opinions and desires of Erdogan himself in this scheme did not matter at all, although, most likely, he could have liked the idea of ​​strengthening his position by consolidating society against an external enemy. As for the radicals in the party of Erdogan himself, they clearly accepted the idea "with a bang."

If you look at the situation from the point of view of Kagan and his allies, then the Turks had to do what the US military did not want to do. If you call a spade a spade, then Turkey was sacrificed. Soon, Thanksgiving is probably the meanest and dirtiest holiday known to mankind, a holiday of betrayal as a lifestyle and strategy for success. Each year, only those for whom Judas is a hero are capable of remembering and rejoicing at the kindness of those whom future Americans later subjected to genocide. The traditional delicacy on this "stab in the back" is roast turkey, in English - turkey. Turkey in English is also Turkey. If this is not a coincidence, then it must be admitted that our opponents have a peculiar sense of humor.

In response to the downed aircraft, the authors of the "Kagan plan" would have arranged either of two options:

1. A full-fledged war on the line Russia - NATO. Given Europe’s emerging attempts to crawl out from under the American “security cap,” this could be the last real chance to use the NATO Charter’s 5 article in order to make war with Russia on a united front. If this is not done now, then sooner or later Juncker's attempts create european (ie, an army independent of the United States), as well as attempts by the French elite to move closer to Russia to solve the IS problem, could lead to the disintegration of NATO from within.

2. The termination of Russian flights and bombings in the zone of the Syrian-Turkish border, with the subsequent creation of the very “reserve of moderate terrorists”, about which Kagan himself wrote in his program document. After the appearance of such a "safe zone", it would be trivial for the American radicals to simply push through their solution to the Syrian issue: break Assad, support the IS and direct it to the Caucasus, Russia and Iran.

It is already obvious that none of the variants of Kagan played. From the statement of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation it is clear that:

- The operation in Syria will be continued and activated;

- Any planes that will threaten Russian planes will stray.

An important clarification is needed to understand the emotions of the Turkish "party of war", which joyfully harnessed the plan of Kagan. From the point of view of the “Turkish imperials”, which constitute a significant part of the local political and military elite, the units of the “Turkoman” in Syria are roughly the same as the LPR for Russia. When Russian bombers eliminate dozens and hundreds of “pro-Turkish fighters” in one flight, some part of the Turkish elite perceives this as their personal pain, their personal tragedy and their personal reason for revenge. Moreover, one does not need to be Wanga to guess that a significant part of the personnel serving the IG oil business, from fuel truck drivers to engineers, has Turkish passports. From the point of view of a significant part of the Turkish elite, Russia stepped on a very sore spot and it was not only a matter of money and barrels, but also that the Russian army methodically killed those whom the Turks considered their own and to whom the Turkish elite promised support and protection. When McCain and Kagan appeared on the horizon with their idea of ​​a “buffer zone” and promises of protection, it is clear that the Turks seized this idea with both hands. However, the Kremlin made a logical conclusion: if the "Turkish imperials" are so painful to watch the deaths of pro-Turkish militants and burning Turkish fuel trucks, then the process must be continued, not curtailed. Instead of driving Russia away from its sick corns, Ankara has ensured that the Russian army will dance a bloody jig on these corns. Daily. Until each militant who believes in the dream of a new Ottoman Empire is eliminated. At the same time, the Russian air defense will keep Turkish (and not only) aircraft in the gunsight, counting on the chance to equalize the score by aviation to losses.

The above is just one thing, albeit the main line of response.

Turkey has one serious trump card in its relations with the Russian Federation. Ankara can close the straits through which the Russian group in Syria is supplied and exports Russian oil. Russia also has a serious trump card that will be used in the event of an escalation of the conflict: the Turkish energy sector is dependent on Russian gas. Roughly speaking, in response to the "shutdown of the straits," the Turks can turn off the light, and this is in addition to the obvious prospect of a military solution to the blocking problem. The combination of mutual threats indicates that the matter will most likely not come to the mutual use of these trumps.

There are two additional areas of action - the support of the Kurds and the impact on the economic interests of Turkey.

We should not assume that "all the Kurds are under the United States." This is a simplification, and not very relevant to reality. Firstly, there are many Kurds, and not all Kurdish organizations have a positive attitude towards the United States. Secondly, even formally pro-American Kurdish forces cooperate with the United States not from a good life and they have to put up with the fact that Washington simultaneously supports Ankara. Under these conditions, Moscow can offer quite interesting options for cooperation to the Kurds, because now we have no limitations in terms of the risk of offending Turkey.

Regarding Turkish economic interests, Dmitry Medvedev quite clearly put it:
"... Long good neighborly relations between Russia and Turkey are undermined, including in the economy and the humanitarian sphere. It will be difficult to repair this damage, a direct consequence could be the abandonment of a number of important joint projects and the loss by Turkish companies of their positions on the Russian market ".


By coincidence, this morning the Rosselkhoznadzor has already found any violations at one of the Turkish meat suppliers to Russia.

It is safe to predict that the Russian regulatory authorities will suddenly acquire unnatural, but commendable vigilance in matters of compliance by Turkish companies with various norms of Russian legislation. The bad luck line will also begin near Turkish-Turkish NGOs and the Azerbaijani-Turkish business, which still feels very good in some sectors of the Russian economy. Yes, Turkey has the opportunity to respond symmetrically, creating problems for its subsidiaries Sberbank, Inter RAO and Lukoil, but in monetary terms, Turkish business will lose much more than Russia.



By the way, every Russian consumer can take part in the response. You can and should refuse to rest in Turkey, but this is not enough. For example, you can and should refuse to buy household appliances Beko (a brand of the Turkish corporation Ko Holding Durable Goods Group). Beer consumption is evil, but the consumption of beer by Efes, that is, the Turkish corporation Anadolu Efes Biraclk ve Malt Sanayii A. is not only evil, but also sponsoring Turkish accomplices of terrorists. If you have a deposit or account in Europe Credit Bank, which belongs to the Turkish oligarch Husnu Mustafa Ozhegin, then its closure will be a beautiful patriotic gesture. I would also like to hope that wearing Colin's Turkish consumer goods will soon become bad form.

Last, but perhaps the most important area of ​​work on the Turkish front will be diplomatic and informational. In the medium term, the Kremlin will seek to perceive Turkey in the international arena as a country sponsor of international terrorism. There is evidence, and now they will be methodically used in the framework of the work of all international structures, from the UN to the FATF. It will be very difficult to defend against the charges and they cannot be ignored endlessly. It will be especially difficult for European politicians to ignore after the Paris attacks. With the successful development of this line of attack on Turkey, it will be increasingly difficult for the American radicals to seek transatlantic solidarity in terms of protecting Turkey from Russia's unfriendly actions in other areas. Moreover, the opening of the participation of Turkish officials, as well as their close relatives in the financing of ISIS, on the one hand, can provoke another political crisis in Turkey, and on the other, offers great opportunities in terms of personal prosecution of some odious representatives of the Turkish elite. It would be very desirable for us that the various troubles that would happen to the Turkish elitist would be attributed not to "Russian revenge", but clearly substantiated by the generally recognized need to combat international terrorism.

By the way, the very fact of the existence of modern Turkey is the result of the idealism of the leadership of the USSR. Herself история Russia, using the example of Bulgaria, Turkey and even Ukraine, teaches us that mercy and idealism, regardless of motivation, is a dangerous luxury in geopolitics. In the future, however, it is worth looking with a certain optimism, since we have every chance to correct some historical mistakes.

The Turkish problem will be solved, but it is only a symptom, while the fundamental cause of such problems is in Washington, and not even in the White House, but, for example, in an inconspicuous office in Massachusetts Avenue 1775. This problem is the irresponsible segment of the American political elite. His neutralization is a topic for another conversation. If we get to the Turkish Imperials relatively soon, then with the Americans everything will be much more complicated. We are now participating in the First World Hybrid War. Victory will be expensive and not long, but it will be ours.
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  1. RESEARCHER
    RESEARCHER 29 November 2015 09: 46 New
    46
    The Kiev junta also has pain points.
    The energy blockade of the Crimea and the downed SU-24 are planned in advance. Do not go to a fortuneteller. Why don't we put pressure on Ukraine now.
    1. Teberii
      Teberii 29 November 2015 09: 50 New
      14
      One already jumped on the Maidan. The second is waiting for the same thing and shame on the whole world.
      1. a52333
        a52333 29 November 2015 09: 54 New
        37
        Each coin has a flip side: the incident with the Su-24 untied us, in a sense, our hands.
        C-400, Kurds, oil tankers - all these tools can now be used.
        The Kurds are a little more complicated, really. There are also Assad and Iran who "not very" want to help the Kurds, but they need to work
        1. Baikonur
          Baikonur 29 November 2015 10: 00 New
          23
          Yes, of course I want to help the Kurds, but it’s prickling, because their ambitions for an independent Kurdistan, i.e. cutting off parts of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, too, can then bring a lot of trouble! It now they seem to be “just” fighters with IS and Turkey! In fact, they have far-reaching plans! And for them - the end justifies any means! Mass terrorism and jihad will not be alien to them either. Maybe even worse than IG, because There are ethnic and geopolitical reasons! Many recognize them! And if the United States little wants it, then - wait for trouble, anyway!
          1. venaya
            venaya 29 November 2015 10: 34 New
            12
            Quote: Baikonur
            ambitions for an independent Kurdistan, i.e. cutting off parts of Syria can also bring many troubles later!

            "Wolves are afraid - do not go to the forest"- There are too few opportunities for us to choose from good and bad options. Our choice of our actions is very limited, we have to, we are forced to choose from bad and very bad options, so doing nothing worse than considering all the possibilities of real influence on the opposing side. I think that even if you do not use the Kurdish card, at least try to play it. Further by the results it will be seen that in the process you can modify your action plans, as our opponents do all the time.
            1. shibi
              shibi 29 November 2015 11: 08 New
              31
              It will sound somewhat blasphemous, but it was beneficial for Russia to lose the plane.
              Erdogan is now directly accused of supporting ISIS.
              Russia can tighten all the nuts against the Turks - close the sky, the border, business, actively support the Kurds.
              Aircraft, figs with him ...
              I feel sorry for the pilot and paratrooper ...
              But war is war ...
              1. cniza
                cniza 29 November 2015 12: 38 New
                +7
                Quote: sibi

                But war is war ...



                Unfortunately, but you are right, the victims are inevitable, life goes on and the war too.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. go21zd45few
                go21zd45few 1 December 2015 09: 08 New
                0
                Yes, there was no benefit for Russia, a provocation was organized by Turkey at the direction of the United States in order to unleash a full-scale war
                in the Middle East. But as always, everything was done stupidly and mediocre.
            2. Vladimir 1964
              Vladimir 1964 29 November 2015 13: 34 New
              +2
              Quote: venaya
              I think that if you do not even use the Kurdish card, then at least try to play it. Further on the results, it will be seen that in the process it is possible to modify the plans of our actions, as our opponents constantly do.

              Interested in your comment, colleague. And about the "bad and very bad" options and the "Kurdish map". As far as the options are concerned, I agree with you, there really is no “absolutely good” way out of the situation, all of it will come out with one or another loss, of course, my reasoning does not apply to the Americans, they will always be “in chocolate”. And in this situation, it remains only to rely on the literacy of our leadership, which would allow our country to gain more than lose. Which by the way, I have certain doubts.
              But on the issue of the “Kurdish map,” let me disagree with you. The Kurdish question can be solved only with a clear concept of further actions, otherwise you can get in the future "another ISIS" with a Kurdish bias.
              Something like a subjective opinion, Vyacheslav. hi
              1. venaya
                venaya 29 November 2015 14: 53 New
                +4
                Quote: Vladimir 1964
                ... The Kurdish question can be solved only with a clear concept of further actions, otherwise you can get in the future "another ISIS" with a Kurdish bias.

                I understand your concerns. As for the "next ISIS" - strongly disagree, there are reasons. ISIS is a pure gang formation with a transnational composition, created by special services under the control of a transnational banking structure that solve their financial problems in such an unusual way for us. Use for their own selfish purposes a whole monolithic nation ??? I assure you that they obviously will not agree to this, there are reasons for this. Yes, the Kurds are a belligerent nation of a nomad type, such people were sometimes used in the past, there are many examples. But try to analyze on your own, and what can the instigators of "controlled chaos" get in this case for themselves? I think that apart from hemorrhoids, nothing more is not that option. In order to rekindle the world bacchanalia, they are clearly not suitable, in this sense they are simply not controlled from abroad, due to the clear national cohesion. And about clarity, so assuring you that today the concept of multivariance is more often used, it eliminates the possibility of failures in cases of frequent failures and also oppositions of the enemy.
                1. Vladimir 1964
                  Vladimir 1964 29 November 2015 15: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: venaya
                  I understand your concerns. As for the "next ISIS" - strongly disagree, there are reasons

                  My concerns, as you put it, are my colleague. They are not in the possibility of the emergence of a "zone of terror" on the territory of the "alleged Kurdish state". As you correctly wrote, this is really unlikely. The problem, in my opinion, lies in the possibility of uniting diverse Kurdish communities in this very state. For as our colleagues correctly write, there are plenty of disagreements between the Kurds of the countries of the Middle East and Mesopotamia.

                  For comment, colleague, thank you, interesting. hi
            3. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 29 November 2015 15: 14 New
              -1
              "To be afraid of wolves - do not go to the forest"
              Just do not be like amers! Do-it-yourselfers to create "wolves" and fight with them? This is the path of the "exceptional" madmen!
              1. Vladimir 1964
                Vladimir 1964 29 November 2015 19: 20 New
                0
                Quote: sharp-lad
                "To be afraid of wolves - do not go to the forest"
                Just do not be like amers! Do-it-yourselfers to create "wolves" and fight with them? This is the path of the "exceptional" madmen!


                I think, Dear colleague, you have somewhat, not objectively enough, reacted to the comment of our colleague. He did not offer to create anything.
                And no one argues about the very essence of your comment.
                Something like that, Oleg. hi
          2. Tatyana
            Tatyana 29 November 2015 10: 38 New
            19
            Great, intelligible article! Everything in Turkey, Syria, Russia and the USA is laid out on shelves in it - moreover, briefly, accessible and understandable.

            To author +
            1. Lelek
              Lelek 29 November 2015 14: 02 New
              +2
              Quote: Tatiana
              To author +


              Joined.
              And yet, I really liked yesterday’s broadcast “right to know” with Evg. Satanovsky. He does not hold humor, become in the presence of a deep knowledge of issues. Especially cool washed the Poles.
              1. shpilkerman
                shpilkerman 1 December 2015 21: 05 New
                -2
                Do not rely on Satan, he speaks only to raise the rating. Here's what happens to that comedian Satanovsky on Israeli TV:

                * * *
                Regarding the war with Turkey, as the empatriots want (they are also unconscious traitors). What stupid things at all? Neither WWII nor Ukraine taught you anything? After the war, the USSR was not in the best condition, almost like Russia after the hunchback and Yeltsin. Then there were provocations towards the USSR, but it worked just like Putin now - with sanctions, restrictions and everything else. You need to think with a sober head, not a hot one.
                "AAA! How dare they! Close the sky to them and throw off the bombs!" - why don't we drop a bomb on Israel or the USA? The end would be the same, for sure. It is necessary to delay time while it is, which the USSR did then, which Russia is doing now.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. a52333
            a52333 29 November 2015 12: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Baikonur
            independent Kurdistan, i.e. cutting off parts of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey,

            Kurds there are different for everyone, because they are not united either. The Syrian want to remain in a single state, Iraqi de facto is already a separate state. but the bulk of the Kurds live in Turkey. by some estimates up to 40% of the population!
            Total: You can agree with Assad on the Kurds.
            on the opinion of Iraq and the Turks-to lay parted.
            Iran is the problem!
          5. Maj.
            Maj. 29 November 2015 21: 07 New
            +1
            in vain we climb there. look at the Afghan - they are all their lives in the war. The only one who would find a homeland for all is Stalin
        2. Gani
          Gani 29 November 2015 10: 46 New
          +2
          The Kurds are a little more complicated, really.

          The Turks again began to shout loudly that they would help Azerbaijan with Nagorno-Karabakh - they are just warning the Kurds for helping
        3. WKS
          WKS 29 November 2015 10: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: a52333
          There are also Assad and Iran who "not very" want to help the Kurds, but they need to work

          As far as I am aware, Assad and Iran are participants in the process. Or do you offer another option for their participation?
        4. Korvin1000
          Korvin1000 29 November 2015 11: 42 New
          0
          We have the same losses. The South Stream has closed. Will have to return to the Ukrainian pipe. Plus losses from the construction of a nuclear power plant. We consider there to build money for soybeans.
          1. Vladimir 1964
            Vladimir 1964 29 November 2015 13: 45 New
            +2
            Quote: Korvin1000
            Plus losses from the construction of a nuclear power plant. We consider there to build money for soybeans.

            Regarding the station, colleague, let me disagree with you. We were really going to build at our own expense, as well as to exploit it later. That is, we would receive “profit” after a sufficiently long period. So the refusal to build the station, at present, is more likely to be beneficial for Russia, this money (there are about 20 billion dollars) can be used for other contracts that are “shorter” in terms of obtaining benefits. Although, of course, the managers of Rosatom will not agree with me, since foreign projects are difficult to give a real audit, thereby becoming what we call the corruption component.
            Such a subjective opinion, colleague. hi
          2. viktor561
            viktor561 30 November 2015 23: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Korvin1000
            South Stream Closed
            Yes and good - the Turks asked for enslaving conditions for us - the Germans are now pushing the north stream -2 and it’s more profitable for us - but the pipe will be closed anyway in 19 — they already warned everyone — yes, Eastern Europe will endure — a freebie for transit will end
          3. ultra
            ultra 1 December 2015 11: 47 New
            0
            Quote: Korvin1000
            Will have to return to the Ukrainian pipe.

            If Nord Stream-2 is realized (the probability of this is much higher than that of Turkey), then the Ukrainian pipe will turn into scrap metal.
        5. The comment was deleted.
      2. RUS96
        RUS96 29 November 2015 09: 59 New
        30
        "Heroes" of our time. Their place on the bucket.
        1. I am Russian
          I am Russian 29 November 2015 10: 15 New
          +4
          Coincidence? I do not think.
          1. GYGOLA
            GYGOLA 29 November 2015 11: 20 New
            +3
            In response to the “shutdown of the straits," the Turks can turn off the light, and this is in addition to the obvious prospect of a military solution to the blocking problem. The combination of mutual threats indicates that, most likely, it will not come to the mutual use of these trump cards.
            The United States will say Fas-Erdogan will override that the states are only a plus-Russia-tyrant for the world community to de-energized Turks, and if it directly relates to the Syrian crisis, I wonder how they have not done so yet. Apparently Erdogan stubbornly weighs, analyzes learns to count to 3.
          2. a housewife
            a housewife 1 December 2015 02: 34 New
            +1
            And also: ARES. But in fact, the Greek god of war. So you can see anything anywhere. You can also watch newspapers in the light. negative
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 29 November 2015 12: 05 New
        +3
        still good news if true then

        A Turkoman general coordinating the destruction of the Russian Su-24 was killed during the fighting. Details of the death of Rashid Baghdash are being specified.
        "First off!" am

        http://riafan.ru/485279-general-komandovavshij-unichtozheniem-su-24-tainstvenno-

        ubit

        last minute news - the body of our commander will be delivered to Ankara and transferred to our side.

        two completely unrelated events repeat
    2. kopatich
      kopatich 29 November 2015 09: 59 New
      -24
      comment for comment ?? catch minus !!!!
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 29 November 2015 10: 36 New
        21
        Wise article.
        I absolutely agree with the call to ignore Turkish goods. good
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 29 November 2015 11: 09 New
          +7
          mirag2 (4)
          I absolutely agree with the call to ignore Turkish goods.
          I will say more!

          If you each truly love your family, friends and relatives; your country and you are burning with the desire to protect their life and well-being from aggression against them from the outside - then give up ALL TURKEY on the market for the sale of capital, goods and labor!
          To do this, remember and memorize Turkish firms and banks indicated in the article!
          1. REMBO
            REMBO 29 November 2015 12: 57 New
            +3
            It is time to refuse all import, and not just Turkish. If possible, of course, because not all of us can still produce, but if the people of our manufacturer support, then he (the Russian manufacturer) will get the opportunity to develop, and the import will gradually creep out of our market. And do not compare with the Soviets - we got chewing gum and beautiful imported blouses, but prs .. or our heavy industry.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Baikonur
        Baikonur 29 November 2015 10: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: kopatich
        comment for comment ?? catch minus !!!!

        What are you minus kopatich.y? The foreman pointed out that the article is about Turkey, and the comment is about urkainu!
        Hmm, strange! hi
        1. kopatich
          kopatich 2 December 2015 12: 27 New
          0
          no one has canceled the herd feeling, and again, experts in Ukraine are sitting idle, too lazy to relearn for Turkey)))
    3. Lexeus
      Lexeus 29 November 2015 10: 35 New
      +1
      Why put pressure on her? Get dirty only, she herself does not cope badly with self-destruction
    4. the most important
      the most important 29 November 2015 10: 46 New
      +6
      Quote: RESEARCHER
      Why don't we put pressure on Ukraine now.

      Unfortunately, it seems to me that this is not the time to deal with Ukraine. It was a great opportunity in the first half of last year, but probably there was no political desire, and the screams of Europe would have deafened all ears ... Now we have to wait until the apple ripens and falls. It was not long left, and Europe no longer needed the impoverished Ukraine ...
    5. Mareman Vasilich
      Mareman Vasilich 29 November 2015 11: 32 New
      +2
      It's too early to talk about pain points. The attack on our military aircraft is the result of the policy of our state (external and internal). The Turks knew that there would be no catastrophic consequences for her, all other answers would be tolerant, not fatal. If you are strong, then you are afraid of and bypassed, if you are weak they pound you with a club and say what to do. They started to beat us, we are silent, it means weak. Do not expect anything serious from our government. Firstly, the influence of the fifth column is too strong; secondly, the economy is too weak.

      To speak like that
      Curiously, in the late 70s, Turkey stated that it was considering closing the passage through the Bosphorus to the Mediterranean for warships of the Soviet Union.

      To this statement, Comrade Gromyko (Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR) told American journalists at a cocktail party at the White House that for a passage to the Mediterranean, the USSR Black Sea Fleet would need only a couple of salvos of missiles. As a result of this, in addition to the Bosphorus, two more passages will appear in the Mediterranean, but, alas, there will be no Istanbul. After these words, Turkey never again raised the issue of closing the Bosphorus to the warships of the USSR. Maybe the time has come for Russia to remind Ankara about this again?

      you must at least be strong.
      1. Spnsr
        Spnsr 29 November 2015 12: 22 New
        +2
        Quote: Mareman Vasilich
        It's too early to talk about pain points. The attack on our military aircraft is the result of the policy of our state (external and internal). The Turks knew that there would be no catastrophic consequences for her, all other answers would be tolerant, not fatal. If you are strong, then you are afraid of and bypassed, if you are weak they pound you with a club and say what to do. They started to beat us, we are silent, it means weak. Do not expect anything serious from our government. Firstly, the influence of the fifth column is too strong; secondly, the economy is too weak.

        To speak like that
        Curiously, in the late 70s, Turkey stated that it was considering closing the passage through the Bosphorus to the Mediterranean for warships of the Soviet Union.

        To this statement, Comrade Gromyko (Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR) told American journalists at a cocktail party at the White House that for a passage to the Mediterranean, the USSR Black Sea Fleet would need only a couple of salvos of missiles. As a result of this, in addition to the Bosphorus, two more passages will appear in the Mediterranean, but, alas, there will be no Istanbul. After these words, Turkey never again raised the issue of closing the Bosphorus to the warships of the USSR. Maybe the time has come for Russia to remind Ankara about this again?

        you must at least be strong.

        I'm sorry, but the strength lies only in bombing missiles?
        1. Mareman Vasilich
          Mareman Vasilich 30 November 2015 13: 55 New
          0
          And in them, as well as in the determination to inflict them, also in the economy, the cohesion of citizens and much more.
      2. asiat_61
        asiat_61 30 November 2015 03: 21 New
        -1
        Ankara razed to the ground? Or maybe turn on the head?
    6. sichevik
      sichevik 29 November 2015 12: 07 New
      +2
      And why put pressure on the Kiev junta? They will crush themselves. Sooner or later, but crush. Rather choke in their own shit. You just have to wait. To build bridges across the Kerch Strait, to provide Crimea with complete independence from the junta. Then you can talk with all these juntics in a different way. And now for now, they are slowly destroying themselves. So let them continue in the same spirit. And we will wait ...
    7. dmi.pris
      dmi.pris 29 November 2015 20: 17 New
      0
      But the crush has already been entered .. I do not mean military force (although we don’t know either). An embargo on Ukrainian products, an energy bridge with the Crimea, etc., etc. It should go smoothly, but rigorously, probably noticed that the races stopped in Crimea with water is now order, remember what happened last year.
      Quote: RESEARCHER
      The Kiev junta also has pain points.
      The energy blockade of the Crimea and the downed SU-24 are planned in advance. Do not go to a fortuneteller. Why don't we put pressure on Ukraine now.
    8. Maj.
      Maj. 29 November 2015 21: 02 New
      +1
      e-thread would be on them. So I want to what we ate
  2. Civil
    Civil 29 November 2015 09: 48 New
    -49
    We are now participating in the First World Hybrid War.

    Once again, they allowed themselves to be drawn, but not for the Power of the Soviets, we were going into battle ... The rake of the First World did not teach us anything.
    1. sanja.grw
      sanja.grw 29 November 2015 09: 53 New
      33
      Once again they let themselves drag in,

      And that you had to hide in a corner and wait
      1. Teberii
        Teberii 29 November 2015 09: 56 New
        13
        We would have waited for the summer of 41g.
      2. Drmadfisher
        Drmadfisher 29 November 2015 10: 18 New
        0
        maybe I'm wrong, but ... http: //rusplt.ru/society/tsargrad-budet-nash-19970.html
      3. onix757
        onix757 29 November 2015 10: 35 New
        0
        Of course not. We were led to such a situation by our weakness (primarily economic) and compromising policies with "partners"
        1. 11 black
          11 black 29 November 2015 11: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: onix757
          Of course not. We were led to such a situation by our weakness (primarily economic) and compromising policies with "partners"

          Give a clearer plan of action than implemented by us. Or do you think August 8th, the Syrian crisis 2013 and finally Crimea is also a compromising policy with partners ???
          1. onix757
            onix757 29 November 2015 11: 23 New
            +3
            Give a clearer plan of action than implemented by us.

            Yes, in general, everything is simple. Since the beginning of the 2000s, the nationalization of strategic industries, the intensive restoration of industry with self-reliance, building a competent personnel policy, reliance on the people and not a handful of oligarchs, implementation of the principles of "the law is one for all."
            In my opinion, these are the key components after the implementation of which we would be much stronger in all respects.
            1. Yuyuka
              Yuyuka 29 November 2015 12: 41 New
              +3
              “+”! - it seems nothing “special” - only in Soviet times they told us at the military department — there are strategic things — such as heavy engineering, energy resources that are not subject to discussion on “invest, do not invest” and “is it worth developing” . It was an axiom - "we spend on defense as much as needed and not a penny more!" fairy tales about the fact that the USSR collapsed from the exorbitant line of spending on defense nonsense, I remember that rise in machine tool and machine building at the very beginning of perestroika, the promotion of young talents in production - it was just a fashion! he went through it himself! Making a career then became much easier if you had brains! And then the people supported any undertaking - they believed in a bright future after "stagnation", now the same rake with the familiar polished handle hi
            2. Spnsr
              Spnsr 29 November 2015 13: 31 New
              -6
              Quote: onix757
              Give a clearer plan of action than implemented by us.

              Yes, in general, everything is simple. Since the beginning of the 2000s, the nationalization of strategic industries, the intensive restoration of industry with self-reliance, building a competent personnel policy, reliance on the people and not a handful of oligarchs, implementation of the principles of "the law is one for all."
              In my opinion, these are the key components after the implementation of which we would be much stronger in all respects.

              How interesting! It seems to me that this has already happened, and this also gives a reason for pin.dos.am to scream that they won the Cold War!
              that’s how difficult it is to understand that, (perhaps the collapse of the union was initiated not from outside, as pin.dos.y shout, but from the inside, the fact is that for a hot war, that economy is just right, but for a cold one, say too costly for the whole economy), but a market economy, and even more so when its sectors are penetrated into the territory of a potential adversary, provides a way of influencing not only its economy, but also externally and internally political aspects ... and moreover, that such a method does not bring down the entire economy of the country, but it can hit several sectors somewhat, and even then, the strength of these blows is not unique ... this is a difference from the economy that we had.
              and also about nationalization, I doubt that everything would be better, but now there is a chance that everyone, more or less, companies pay taxes, and medium and large companies are also pulling infrastructure projects related to the location of the company ...
              and, if we are already talking that there is a war against us, then it would not hurt to choose a weapon, that is, if we transfer the confrontation to the hot phase, then this squeal will not mourn, even if we are morally right, then the squeal it will be such that even all convinced patriots, well, very many will begin to doubt that they are right ...
              it is, in general terms and briefly ...
              1. onix757
                onix757 29 November 2015 13: 55 New
                -1
                Quote: SpnSr
                the fact is that for a hot war, that economy is just right, but for a cold one, let's say it is too expensive for the whole economy)

                It doesn’t matter what kind of war, the cold war sooner or later goes into the hot phase. Well, if you got involved in a war with the "rich of this world" you need to be aware of our capabilities and consequences.
                Quote: SpnSr
                but a market economy, and even more so when its sectors are penetrated into the territory of a potential adversary, provides a way to influence not only its economy, but also on the external and internal political aspects ..

                Well, how does the impact happen? And probably, by the principle, they can afford to impose any sanctions against us, but we don’t, because they know that their export is more important to us and we won’t be trampled without it. That's your whole "market economy". They are sanctions to us — we are not saying our method, they have omitted — we gladly set about to sell not much that we have. Maybe you have other examples of impact?)
                and one can say moreover, that this method does not bring down the entire economy of the country, but can somewhat affect some sectors, and even then, the strength of these blows is not unique ... this is a difference from the economy that we had

                You know, fells .. One ban on lending to foreign markets brings down all sectors, and our central bank contributes to this.
                and also about nationalization, I doubt that everything would be better, but now there is a chance that everyone, more or less, companies pay taxes, and medium and large companies are also pulling infrastructure projects related to the location of the company ...

                Do you think that if Sechin restrains his appetites, then the profitability of the enterprise from the sale of energy will be less? Or will the budget lose something? I suppose everything would be exactly the opposite.
                and, if we are already talking that there is a war against us, then it would not hurt to choose a weapon, that is, if we transfer the confrontation to the hot phase, then this squeal will not mourn, even if we are morally right, then the squeal it will be such that even all convinced patriots, well, very many will begin to doubt that they are right ...

                This is a kind of slap excuse. There is no need to scare patriots with squeals, it is better to let the state carry out the functions assigned to it to protect allies, so that later it would not be painfully embarrassing.
                1. Spnsr
                  Spnsr 29 November 2015 14: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: onix757
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  the fact is that for a hot war, that economy is just right, but for a cold one, let's say it is too expensive for the whole economy)

                  It doesn’t matter what kind of war, the cold war sooner or later goes into the hot phase. Well, if you got involved in a war with the "rich of this world" you need to be aware of our capabilities and consequences.
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  but a market economy, and even more so when its sectors are penetrated into the territory of a potential adversary, provides a way to influence not only its economy, but also on the external and internal political aspects ..

                  Well, how does the impact happen? And probably, by the principle, they can afford to impose any sanctions against us, but we don’t, because they know that their export is more important to us and we won’t be trampled without it. That's your whole "market economy". They are sanctions to us — we are not saying our method, they have omitted — we gladly set about to sell not much that we have. Maybe you have other examples of impact?)
                  and one can say moreover, that this method does not bring down the entire economy of the country, but can somewhat affect some sectors, and even then, the strength of these blows is not unique ... this is a difference from the economy that we had

                  You know, fells .. One ban on lending to foreign markets brings down all sectors, and our central bank contributes to this.
                  and also about nationalization, I doubt that everything would be better, but now there is a chance that everyone, more or less, companies pay taxes, and medium and large companies are also pulling infrastructure projects related to the location of the company ...

                  Do you think that if Sechin restrains his appetites, then the profitability of the enterprise from the sale of energy will be less? Or will the budget lose something? I suppose everything would be exactly the opposite.
                  and, if we are already talking that there is a war against us, then it would not hurt to choose a weapon, that is, if we transfer the confrontation to the hot phase, then this squeal will not mourn, even if we are morally right, then the squeal it will be such that even all convinced patriots, well, very many will begin to doubt that they are right ...

                  This is a kind of slap excuse. There is no need to scare patriots with squeals, it is better to let the state carry out the functions assigned to it to protect allies, so that later it would not be painfully embarrassing.

                  forgive me generously!
                  but I get the feeling that you are overwhelmed with emotions, and even when you try to criticize me, you yourself don’t notice that you are talking about the same thing! what am I talking about. I will not repeat and quote your phrases and draw analogies between my ...
                  Well, something like that, yes!
                  Adin Vapros, is the processor ready?
                  1. onix757
                    onix757 29 November 2015 14: 25 New
                    0
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    , you yourself don’t notice that just say the same thing! what am I talking about. I will not repeat and quote your phrases and draw analogies between my ...

                    With all due respect, I did not find any similarities in the vision of events.
                    Adin Vapros, is the processor ready?

                    a waste of time
                    1. Spnsr
                      Spnsr 29 November 2015 15: 02 New
                      0
                      Quote: onix757
                      Quote: SpnSr
                      , you yourself don’t notice that just say the same thing! what am I talking about. I will not repeat and quote your phrases and draw analogies between my ...

                      With all due respect, I did not find any similarities in the vision of events.
                      Adin Vapros, is the processor ready?

                      a waste of time

                      similarity, and do not, because most likely only you felt the absence of jamon! this is not the slightest desire to offend, but the emphasis on the fact that you saw that they imposed sanctions and we wiped ourselves, but did not see that they also wiped out!
                      and about natsesor, he’s also called soapy snouts!
                      Well, why, as soon as you hear that a person participated in the hostilities, he advocates that it is necessary to punish, but it is necessary to use all possible methods !, and only then he says that he is ready for war!
                      and why, people who don’t even know what soap-diggers, not to mention the fact that they shot at the training ground before the oath, exude so many warlike emotions!
                      explain it to me
                      Quote: onix757
                      onix757 (1) SU
                    2. Spnsr
                      Spnsr 29 November 2015 18: 49 New
                      0
                      Quote: onix757
                      1) About jamon, this is somewhat primitive is not it? In the regions it’s not a matter of jamon, there salaries are cut and prices / taxes are rising. In the country, the number of unemployed is growing (even according to official statistics) and you are talking about junk nonsense.
                      2) Do not make yourself a genius of martial art by trying to drive your opponent into the corner with the term "processor", especially since you have collected more than one alarming suitcase. Put questions more clearly - there will be an answer in the context that you expect ..
                      3) did not understand what you are asking to explain.
                      About point three, you perfectly understood what I mean! especially in the light of what is described in paragraph 2, regarding the alarming suitcase that you are so sick with the war then, have not tried other methods yet, but you already let us go? or do you have a worrying briefcase, is it a bubble with quirks for drinking, skewers and a pack of item No. 2?
                      AND ON REASON 1, the point was not about the primitive, but about the fact that you emphasized the fact that the sanctions were against us, and we kind of got lost, but that not only we got lost, you aren't a word!?!
                      and yet, you will excuse me generously, not from evil, but for the sake of truth, you my friend are a subtle provocateur, and write as if I do not live in Russia, and I myself do not see it, and about taxes and unemployed. But where is the logic? if as you describe it means you need to start a war? what are you talking about?
                      everything is as clear as a chapel!
          2. sa-ag
            sa-ag 29 November 2015 11: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: 11 black
            Or according to your August XNUMXth

            In this regard, yes, Sarkozy then told Medvedev that he didn’t want to become an outcast and that was a semi-victory, the media there justified the rationale and that’s all
        2. tolian
          tolian 29 November 2015 11: 26 New
          +4
          Very many, I believe, do not link our actions towards Turkey as a manifestation of weakness. Although the pshek on the screen was already jubilant .... but Turkey showed that the king was naked !!!! ...... Russia is very smart.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 29 November 2015 09: 55 New
      26
      Quote: Civil
      Once again, they allowed themselves to be drawn, but not for the Power of the Soviets, we were going into battle ... The rake of the First World did not teach us anything.

      Once again, they threaten us to go to war with us. We did not start this hybrid. Not our bases are at their borders. We did not introduce sanctions, etc. And what do you think we should do? Relax and have fun like in 90?
      No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.
      1. sanja.grw
        sanja.grw 29 November 2015 09: 59 New
        +6
        No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.

        good good good
        It’s a pity you can’t, +++++++++++, put so many pluses
      2. Civil
        Civil 29 November 2015 10: 04 New
        -32
        Quote: Boris55
        Quote: Civil
        Once again, they allowed themselves to be drawn, but not for the Power of the Soviets, we were going into battle ... The rake of the First World did not teach us anything.

        Once again, they threaten us to go to war with us. We did not start this hybrid. Not our bases are at their borders. We did not introduce sanctions, etc. And what do you think we should do? Relax and have fun like in 90?
        No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.


        Bases have been standing for more than 50 years, no one will climb into a fight with a nuclear power. Who are you? YOU and your oil towers?
        1. kotvov
          kotvov 29 November 2015 10: 57 New
          +4
          The bases have been standing for more than 50 years ,,,
          Well, yes, both in the Baltic states and the missile defense system. Do you yourself believe in what you write? Or is it just BABA-YAGA against?
        2. 11 black
          11 black 29 November 2015 11: 22 New
          +1
          Quote: Civil
          Quote: Boris55
          Quote: Civil
          Once again, they allowed themselves to be drawn, but not for the Power of the Soviets, we were going into battle ... The rake of the First World did not teach us anything.

          Once again, they threaten us to go to war with us. We did not start this hybrid. Not our bases are at their borders. We did not introduce sanctions, etc. And what do you think we should do? Relax and have fun like in 90?
          No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.


          Bases have been standing for more than 50 years, no one will climb into a fight with a nuclear power. Who are you? YOU and your oil towers?

          I remember when the American radar appeared in the same Turkey - the Caribbean crisis occurred and the nuclear war did not start by a lucky coincidence. Think what you say. Then by the way, our American plane was shot down over Cuba — they were silent, and it’s good that it was enough to not start a war because of a downed plane, because life would have looked a little different now.
      3. Victor Demchenko
        Victor Demchenko 29 November 2015 10: 26 New
        +5
        Quote: Boris55
        No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.

        only need to beat so that there would be no change! and with our couch generals it does!
      4. sa-ag
        sa-ag 29 November 2015 10: 47 New
        -3
        Quote: Boris55
        No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.

        Yeah, before the Great Patriotic War it was similar too - “to beat the enemy with little blood and on its territory”, in my opinion it is either plagiarism :-)
      5. onix757
        onix757 29 November 2015 10: 49 New
        +4
        It is a pity that none of the authorities expected or calculated such a development of events in our country, and the rearmament began after the well-known events in Ossetia, and even with a creak. And before that, and after that, for us all "equal partners" in all kinds of dubious WTO organizations
      6. aina01
        aina01 29 November 2015 10: 55 New
        -11
        We just started the war! And I am pleased to be aware of this! Crimea, Little Russia, Syria - these are our steps, we took them without looking at Uncle Sam. Sanctions appeared after our actions. Everything is right, according to KONU. That's just our government infuriates me ...
    3. Yarik
      Yarik 29 November 2015 09: 56 New
      -15
      In-in ... For tycoons I fuck. You don’t have to go anywhere. let him push himself first. The bastards have power.
      1. Senior manager
        Senior manager 29 November 2015 10: 24 New
        17
        Yarik. I will change the expression - if a person is pleasing to everyone, this is a scoundrel, if power suits everyone - this is not power. The state is still an apparatus of violence. I believe that the percentage of bastards in power should decrease and the current power is trying to cleanse itself. So this is the working moment.
        1. Vladimir 1964
          Vladimir 1964 29 November 2015 13: 57 New
          0
          Quote: St. Propulsion
          The state is still an apparatus of violence.


          A colleague, so simple for fun. The state is an apparatus of coercion, not violence (if it is according to the classics). I think there is a difference. hi
      2. Aleksander
        Aleksander 29 November 2015 10: 49 New
        +5
        Quote: Yarik
        In-in ... For tycoons I fuck. You don’t have to go anywhere. let him push himself first. The bastards have power.


        Your position is convenient: in 1812 - “I will not go to fight for the damned Romanovs!”, In 1941 - ““ I will not go to fight for the damned Bolsheviks! ”, Etc.
        1. Yarik
          Yarik 29 November 2015 11: 06 New
          0
          I can’t get into 12 and 41 in any way. In the 41st I would fight for my Motherland. And for Stalin.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    4. EvgNik
      EvgNik 29 November 2015 10: 09 New
      +8
      Quote: Civil
      Once again let themselves be drawn

      Do you really want a war on your territory?
    5. Victor Demchenko
      Victor Demchenko 29 November 2015 10: 25 New
      +3
      you know, but for some reason they didn’t ask us ... request
      1. Yarik
        Yarik 29 November 2015 10: 43 New
        -4
        And you delegated your authority ... wassat Do you want to ask? General, I do not advise. wink
    6. mirag2
      mirag2 29 November 2015 10: 41 New
      +3
      Once again, they allowed themselves to be drawn, but not for the Power of the Soviets, we were going into battle.
      -well. then, from your point of view, WHAT are we going to fight for now?
      I think that with our VKS we protect the interests of the Russian Federation (not Putin or Rotenberg, or Vekselberg or Abramovich or Deripaska) - but roughly speaking, the standard of living in the Russian Federation. And although he is now going to spend more, it was IMPOSSIBLE to avoid.
      ps and the downing of our aircraft, which defended the interests of the Russian Federation Do you think it is necessary to leave "so"?
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 29 November 2015 11: 12 New
        -3
        Quote: mirag2
        okay. then, from your point of view, WHAT are we going to fight for now?

        for oil and gas interests, because this is a basis at present, not a future in which our children will live better than us, namely this basis
        1. onix757
          onix757 29 November 2015 11: 29 New
          +1
          I'm afraid that our children will not see this happiness, as when the barrel cost 140 green raccoons
      2. arlekin
        arlekin 29 November 2015 11: 46 New
        +1
        [/ quote] I now think that we protect the interests of the Russian Federation (not Putin or Rotenberg, or Vekselberg or Abramovich or Deripaska) with our videoconferencing [/ quote]
        And now some Turk writes on the Internet "We will protect the interests not of Erdogan, but of Turkey!"
        The powers that be came up with these slogans thousands of years ago, pitting peoples in their interests.
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 29 November 2015 09: 49 New
    +8
    Moscow will press on the pain points of Ankara


    Of course click and that's right.

    But I still think that the main emphasis should be on replacing the bloody Erdogan regime and its family with a more sane and loyal to RUSSIA.
    Further, I draw the attention of members of the forum to the progressive trend towards the creation of conflicts near the borders of RUSSIA with a high degree of war .... SYRIA, UKRAINE, TURKEY, IRAQ ... who is next?

    Further, trade relations are slowly being cut off under the plausible pretext of RUSSIA with neighboring countries using these conflicts.

    I think .... that he is a very smart enemy (I don’t know his face very carefully) ... skillfully leads the matter to isolate RUSSIA on all fronts .... he does it leisurely and consistently.

    I see the pattern in the events of recent years and months .... if you look at the big picture and not its fragments.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 29 November 2015 10: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: The same Lech
      Of course click and that's right.

      Only I didn’t notice something that would affect the delegators:

      "Decree on measures to ensure national security of Russia and the protection of Russian citizens from criminal and other unlawful acts and on the application of special economic measures against Turkey"
      http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/50805

      This decree does not apply to either the Turkish stream or the nuclear power plant at our expense ... Have you left a window for discussions? Or is it a blow to the business of the Erdogan family? There are a lot of questions, let's see.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 29 November 2015 10: 07 New
        +2
        three billion dollars from RUSSIA have already been invested in a nuclear power plant under construction in TURKEY ....
        what do you want to do with it?

        The answer is logical ... it is necessary to solve the problem with Erdogan and his family and not with TURKEY and the Turkish people who became hostages to Erdogan’s policy.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 29 November 2015 10: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: The same Lech
          The answer is logical ... it is necessary to solve the problem with Erdogan and his family and not with TURKEY and the Turkish people who became hostages to Erdogan’s policy.

          Every nation deserves that power, which then has it.
          This is a separate, big topic and it does not fit into this framework.
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 29 November 2015 10: 18 New
            +5
            Every nation deserves that government, which then has it.


            I can not agree


            The POLPOT regime in KAMPUCHIA killed 2 people, including 746 peasants, 105 monks, 1 representatives of national minorities, 927 workers, employees and representatives of other professions, about 061 writers and journalists.

            Is the people of this country worthy of this cannibalistic government .... the Vietnamese, GLORY TO GOD, saved the surviving Kampucheans by driving half the soldiers into the jungle.

            Erdogan can also throw TURKEY into the heat of war without asking his citizens ... whom he is now planting and killing for the truth told about him.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 29 November 2015 10: 56 New
              0
              Quote: The same Lech
              HALF regime in KAMPPUCHIA killed 2 people, ...

              Did Polpot personally kill them all? Aren't those who killed the people of Kampuchea?
              Is Poroshenko personally destroys the Donbass?

              In each state there will be adherents of one or another view. What kind of power he wants to use for his goals depends on the ruler, and they also use this power to overthrow the existing government, which has ceased to meet the requirements of globalizers (orange revolutions).
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 29 November 2015 12: 12 New
                0
                As an example of the use of destructive forces in society to achieve their goals.


                Original news RT in Russian: https://russian.rt.com/article/133492
                .
            2. Andrew
              Andrew 29 November 2015 11: 14 New
              +5
              “Every nation deserves the power that then has it” - In Cambodia, there was still the same civil war, different from the others in relative proportions, and the Khmer Rouge is a hard version of the hunweibins, brought to an absurd limit ...
          2. mirag2
            mirag2 29 November 2015 10: 46 New
            +1
            Every nation deserves that power, which then has it.
            This is a separate, big topic and it does not fit into this framework.
            The Turkish people have a long and glorious history. And of course, with an increase in the standard of living, what Erdogan achieved, people believed in him and in themselves. Of course, the next step should logically be the restoration of the Ottoman Empire. With the help of improvised hidden means such as Turkoman etc.
        2. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: The same Lech
          three billion dollars from RUSSIA have already been invested in a nuclear power plant under construction in TURKEY ....
          what do you want to do with it?

          It was foolish to invest something there in our eternal enemy. It is necessary to bring to responsibility for the beginning those who invested budget money there. Erdogan has been in power for 12 years
          1. Dryuya2
            Dryuya2 29 November 2015 13: 07 New
            +6
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            It is necessary to bring to responsibility for the beginning those who invested budget money there. Erdogan has been in power for 12 years

            Baghdasarov back in 2010 - "SCREAMED" about this from the rostrum
            but to sense request
        3. Victor Demchenko
          Victor Demchenko 29 November 2015 10: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: The same Lech
          three billion dollars from RUSSIA have already been invested in a nuclear power plant under construction in TURKEY ....
          what do you want to do with it?

          to freeze. we are not so rich that it would be so easy to throw out 3 billion, but if in the future there are no guarantees on the repayment of the loan, then ... you yourself understand. here as in poker, you wait for the card to arrive, but it turns out to be a bummer, and you need to show a flair (which I do not see in our manual) and discard the cards!
        4. Sobol
          Sobol 29 November 2015 11: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: The same Lech
          three billion dollars from RUSSIA have already been invested in a nuclear power plant under construction in TURKEY ....
          what do you want to do with it?

          Do not invest the remaining 17. And we will not return those three, we will also give 17 more.
    2. veksha50
      veksha50 29 November 2015 10: 30 New
      10
      Quote: The same Lech
      I still think that the main emphasis should be on replacing the bloody Erdogan regime and its family with a more sane and loyal to RUSSIA.



      Hmm ... We slept through the "brotherly" people and the state - Ukraine, where the mentality of the people, in general, was close ... And then the Kurds, Turks, Iraqis ... each has its own mentality different from ours, and their goals, far from coinciding with the goals of Russia ...

      They imposed a great tax on Russia ... And in the former republics of Central Asia there is a bad swarm ...

      In the 90s, when the "elite" of Russia was blissed out and the people tried to survive, much was lost ... And first of all, spiritual and kinship ties with the former republics ...

      I can’t even imagine how Russia will now be able to somehow influence the pro-Russian opposition in coming to power in individual states ... The states have worked too well in these 25 years ...
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 29 November 2015 10: 38 New
        +6
        They imposed a great tax on Russia ... And in the former republics of Central Asia there is a bad swarm ...


        So I’m talking to us, they are fighting a fool ...

        It's like in a street brawl ... when a punks overlaid you and a masked provocateur stands behind her and half-sues ... the youngsters say they’re sadanite with a knife in the back .... these are real international rules now.
        1. veksha50
          veksha50 29 November 2015 11: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: The same Lech
          and behind her stands a provocateur in a mask and half-narrows.



          Duc ... a provocateur has long been known ...

          And against the punks ... against the punks only such rules as "Beat first" and "There is no reception against scrap" ...

          Forcing the punks Russia, forcing ...

          PS It’s just that the states have never received anything in their faces in their history - as it should be ... Putin needs to look for something and do something so that it doesn’t unleash the Third World War, but so that Turkey gets too shy and the states dare not interfere ...

          Think, Vova, think ... the whole country hopes for you ...
  4. Tor5
    Tor5 29 November 2015 09: 50 New
    +8
    Deep, logical article! I would like to believe that our “response to Curzon” will be inadequate and we will return to normal relations without Erdogan.
    1. Grbear
      Grbear 29 November 2015 10: 07 New
      +4
      and we will return to normal relations without Erdogan.

      What is the difference with or without him. He was chosen in the wake of pan-Turkism, which means that the population has already been "poisoned" by the idea of ​​exclusivity, at least on a BV scale. The next one will simply hide his "dagger", but essentially remain the "sultan." It is necessary to reduce Turkey to the state of a regional state, restore historical justice for the Armenians and Greeks, and centralize the Kurds as an independent state ... And forget about Turkey as the "leader of all Muslims" ... So, a platform for recreation. hi
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 29 November 2015 10: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: GrBear
        and we will return to normal relations without Erdogan.

        What is the difference with or without him ...

        Yes, the difference is that at one time we returned to normal relations with Finland ... Germany ... The difference is that collective punishment gives nothing but an exacerbation of "misunderstandings" on both sides. In any situation, the criminals must receive the punishment they deserve, even for this it is necessary to put forward an ultimatum. And, believe me, with all patriotism and hatred of the enemies of the Fatherland, I will not blame the incident with the Su-24, organized by the United States and executed by Turkey, the owner of a tourist hotel, which made the rest of our citizens enjoyable; builders from Turkey working at construction sites in Moscow; sellers of industrial and food products used by the Russians are by no means the highest affluence.
        This is as true as the fact that in Ukraine, apart from Poroshenko, people of other views live, both in Moldova, and in the USA, and even in the UK. It is also true that anti-fascists lived in fascist Germany.

        So far we are increasingly finding ourselves in a situation of hostages to political decisions and steps taken in the highest echelons of power. But, if this happened, we have the right to expect from our state such effective measures so that no one would ever ask obliquely to look at a flying plane ... get close to the security zone of the 330 kV overhead line ... prepare a rope and soap and only after that stand on a picket blocking the passage to the Crimea ... prepare a bank of cyanides and accept at the same time signing the consent to the sanctions ...

        And the last one. I will suffer everything, and difficulties, and hunger, but I will not patiently wait for inaction and shame. I don’t know what GDP should do if tomorrow, at the meeting, Erdogan doesn’t “fall into his feet”, begging to forgive the clouding of the mind (this, of course, will not happen in 99,999% of the case, because the immediate “kirdyk” will come from the opposite side, hostile to us) bringing sworn assurances of compensation for moral and physical damage to the dead and punishment of the guilty pilots of the Turkish Air Force, I do not know.
        But I know what needs to be done so that those who do not want to live in peace and friendship with Russia, hatched ambitious plans for world domination or nationalist revenge just evaporated ... Yes, yes. They evaporated, disappeared from the face of the Earth and did not spoil the atmosphere ...
        soldier
    2. Vita vko
      Vita vko 29 November 2015 10: 20 New
      +4
      The main thing in the article
      This problem is an insane segment of the American political elite. Its neutralization is a topic for another discussion.
      И the problem of irresponsible Western oligarchs pushing the world to war can be solved quite effectively if the nuclear missile warheads are officially aimed not at American cities, but at these freaks who have imagined themselves masters of humanity. When clans like the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers are sure that they will be the first to burn out and are not guaranteed to be part of their cynical Golden Billion project, they will quickly change their minds about military conflicts and international law in their lured politicians and media.
  5. pilot bin-bom
    pilot bin-bom 29 November 2015 09: 51 New
    +1
    Speaking of the summit in Paris. According to etiquette, if Erdogan first stretches his claw, then it’s necessary to reap its type, and they will photograph it. It’s good that the parties diverged on different tacks at the summit.
  6. nemec55
    nemec55 29 November 2015 09: 51 New
    +4
    Unfortunately, all the anger of the country's leadership about the downed plane poured mostly on ordinary citizens.
    1. 3officer
      3officer 29 November 2015 10: 40 New
      0
      Quote: nemec55
      Unfortunately, all the anger of the country's leadership about the downed plane poured mostly on ordinary citizens.


      How? And the anger of citizens (if they are citizens of their country, not Mr. .. "Unfortunately") about the death of our guys, no less than that of the leadership.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. bronik
    bronik 29 November 2015 09: 53 New
    +1
    Economic graters are always unpleasant, but they will not be able to endure. They will have to give up turrets. Before changing Erodogan to a normal person.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. Altona
    Altona 29 November 2015 09: 54 New
    +2
    I already read this article, such an impression. "Russian Spring" prints a day earlier. As for beer and consumer goods, it's hard to say. I have Turkish, so bought for a long time. And I don’t buy their new one for a long time. In general, while crushing on trade, this is probably better than throwing bombs.
    1. kotvov
      kotvov 29 November 2015 11: 07 New
      +1
      In general, while crushing on trade, it's probably better than throwing bombs. ,,
      not only, not only. I am sure that there are documents of fact about the cooperation of Erdogan or his entourage about cooperation with the PIG (pseudo-Islamic state), so they need to be uploaded to RT, and through diplomatic channels in the EU.
      1. Altona
        Altona 29 November 2015 12: 38 New
        0
        Quote: kotvov
        not only, not only. I am sure that there are documents of fact about the cooperation of Erdogan or his entourage about cooperation with the PIG (pseudo-Islamic state), so they need to be uploaded to RT, and through diplomatic channels in the EU.

        ---------------------
        At the Incirlik base, nuclear weapons are being stockpiled, too, you will not bomb without consequences ...
  11. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 29 November 2015 09: 55 New
    +4
    mercy and idealism, regardless of motivation, is a dangerous luxury in geopolitics

    Historical examples after the collapse of the USSR confirm this. Often we openly (for plowing) the soul do international politics. This is what the politicians of the countries around us use too cunning and prepared in US universities.
    And part of the article was already on the site and was hotly discussed.
  12. aszzz888
    aszzz888 29 November 2015 09: 55 New
    +1
    The history of Russia itself, on the example of Bulgaria, Turkey and even Ukraine, teaches us that mercy and idealism, regardless of motivation, are a dangerous luxury in geopolitics.


    The better for others, the worse for you. Law of life. request
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 29 November 2015 10: 50 New
      +3
      The history of Russia itself, on the example of Bulgaria, Turkey and even Ukraine, teaches us that mercy and idealism, regardless of motivation, - it is a dangerous luxury in geopolitics.


      Charity is not a luxury; it is an internal need, which is manifested in the spiritually strong people. Another thing is idealism. And the luxury in politics is not to notice the fuss around the foundations of statehood and the foundations of society, since impunity breeds permissiveness.
      yes
      Quote: aszzz888
      The better for others, the worse for you. Law of life. request

      This is the bestial law of life.. For according to human concepts, the mother will give the last, even life, so that the child survives ...
      yes
  13. sober
    sober 29 November 2015 09: 57 New
    +4
    Here is a prophecy
    1. 3officer
      3officer 29 November 2015 10: 25 New
      +4
      So-so “prophecy,” the bear lost its teeth and claws under Uncle Misha Gorbachev, and when drunk Uncle Bohr caused laughter not only in the circus. So, under Uncle Vova, the bear is certainly not the same as under Uncle Joseph, but the cackle is clearly not causing.
      1. Yarik
        Yarik 29 November 2015 10: 31 New
        +3
        But the "show-offs" are higher than the roof. Take care of domestic politics. Vova and Misha. And others like them ...
      2. andj61
        andj61 29 November 2015 14: 03 New
        +2
        Quote: 3officer
        So-so “prophecy,” the bear lost its teeth and claws under Uncle Misha Gorbachev, and when drunk Uncle Bohr caused laughter not only in the circus. So, under Uncle Vova, the bear is certainly not the same as under Uncle Joseph, but the cackle is clearly not causing.

        Under Gorbachev, the bear did not lose anything: they only tried to put a muzzle on him, and even that didn’t work out - it’s a free beast. It also did not work out in the 90s to consume a bear - although, I agree, the world made fun of Boris's antics, and this attitude quietly spread to the bear.
        And now everyone has already become convinced - the bear is a serious beast, it is not worth it to anger. But from time to time they are located: both in Georgia, and in Turkey, and also in Ukraine.
  14. as75897
    as75897 29 November 2015 09: 58 New
    +5
    Media: An earthquake of magnitude 4,9 occurred in central Turkey. The earthquake focus was at a depth of about 10 kilometers.
    British scientists believe that an asymmetric earthquake of reduced power can be extremely warning in nature, indicating the ever-increasing potential of the oil and gas defense sector in the context of import substitution.
    Thanks to the brigade commander of the drilling rig of the geological reconnaissance forces of rapid reaction.
  15. linen
    linen 29 November 2015 09: 59 New
    -5
    The usa has a huge debt! The economy is overheated WAR for its exit but of a local nature! And if the US gets the Pentagon and the White House! RUSSIA will stand a large territory!
  16. ZYRYANIN
    ZYRYANIN 29 November 2015 09: 59 New
    +7
    It must be remembered that in geopolitics there are practically no ownerless rabid dogs, especially since in the Turkish case the strings leading to Washington are visible with the naked eye.
    Bull's-eye! Erdogan always spun around, like in a frying pan, bargained for any reason, like a small shopkeeper, akin to the Ukrainian "rulers". Based on this pettiness, he would not go on this provocation on his own. Mindful of the "feat" of Gavrilo Principle, it is probably not worthwhile to unleash the third world war! But to punish a bargainer with ruin is definitely worth it! And there, you see, the Turks themselves will dump him, and a more loyal leader will come ...
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 29 November 2015 10: 55 New
      0
      And there, you see, the Turks themselves will dump him, and a more loyal leader will come ...


      I agree +
  17. Afinogen
    Afinogen 29 November 2015 10: 00 New
    +3
    By the way, every Russian consumer can take a feasible response.


    I agree 100%, if everyone announces sanctions to the Turks will be fine. after these vile jackals treacherously shot down our plane, I personally announced them sanctions, I won’t buy anything else from Turkey.
  18. pilot bin-bom
    pilot bin-bom 29 November 2015 10: 00 New
    +7
    Turkey has advanced more than 1000 pieces of equipment, including Leopard tanks, self-propelled artillery and rocket launchers, infantry armored vehicles, armored mine clearance vehicles and other types of equipment, to the Syrian border.

    According to the Greek agency ProNews, the equipment was transferred from the border with Greece and the zone of responsibility of the 1st Turkish army. In total, more than 1000 pieces of equipment are being transported from East Thrace to the Syrian border. About a quarter of all the forces of the Turkish 1st Army are reportedly being transferred to the borders of Syria.

    There is also evidence that the deployed forces contain a significant number of engineering vehicles, including Samur amphibious vehicles, which are used to guide pontoon crossings over water obstacles, which indicates that Turkish forces are preparing for the offensive.

    I hope there are enough missiles and bombs for air darts, should that happen. Here are just tourists - you need to quickly remove all the remaining ones.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: Pilot Bin Bom
      I hope there are enough missiles and bombs for air darts, should that happen.

      They have more than 200 F-16s available. And we have only one S-400 there, and Moscow with its Fort, and of course patriotic pictures and videos from couch special forces. What we are going to do?
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 29 November 2015 10: 42 New
        +3
        What we are going to do?

        Do you really think that the Turks will decide on a mass attack from the 200 F-16? Very doubtful. If at least one bomb falls on the territory of the Khmeimim base, it will be a full-fledged war. And there will be no ceremony.
        1. onix757
          onix757 29 November 2015 10: 52 New
          +1
          Somewhere I already heard it. AND! a similar argument was made when Ukrainian shells traversed our border along a trajectory.
        2. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Wedmak
          Do you really think that the Turks will decide on a mass attack from the 200 F-16? Very doubtful. If at least one bomb falls on the territory of the Khmeimim base, it will be a full-fledged war. And there will be no ceremony.

          And here is the question - how will we fight? The Black Sea Fleet is much weaker than the Turkish Navy, the Turkish army is the second largest in NATO, after the United States. Last year, we just posted a useful article - http://topwar.ru/41179-vooruzhennye-...le-rossii.html This is a very serious opponent, with which, moreover, we have no land border. Even if the Turks are urgently expelled from NATO, our possibilities for war with them are limited. Cut the group in Syria and all. The Americans will throw weapons in any way and unlike the Arab Bedouins and other Kurds, the Turks already know how to use them. Moreover, the junta in Ukraine is waiting for the opportunity to stab in the back. Strelkov recently correctly set out everything in Syria. Donbass had not yet decided, but rushed to save the dying Assad, with all due respect to him.
          1. huntsman650
            huntsman650 29 November 2015 12: 56 New
            -1
            A pair of tactical nuclear charges at the places of dislocation and ala in bar
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 15: 55 New
              0
              Quote: huntsman650
              A pair of tactical nuclear charges at the places of dislocation and ala in bar

              Yes, no one will just use nuclear weapons, are you out of your mind ?! Even Americans on Vtenama did not. Or Israel in Iran. There is a regional conflict with a non-nuclear power. If you wave a nuclear club to the right and left, the answer will surely arrive from NATO (and possibly the whole world), as a preventive strike. It will be quite logical, they will not wait for their turn. Forget about nuclear charges. In Turkey-Syria, no one will use them.
          2. KaPToC
            KaPToC 29 November 2015 16: 04 New
            0
            So I wonder how you think the power of the Turkish fleet? One “Moscow” will reheat ALL Turkish frigates.
            What do you think! Ships on the head? By displacement? Maybe the salvo weight?
            By what criteria is the Turkish fleet strong?
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 16: 27 New
              0
              Quote: KaPToC
              So I wonder how you think the power of the Turkish fleet? One “Moscow” will reheat ALL Turkish frigates.
              What do you think! Ships on the head? By displacement? Maybe the salvo weight?
              By what criteria is the Turkish fleet strong?

              Ltd., in business - the old man "Moscow" all the frigates? wassat Well, of course he has 16 Volcanoes. If in one gulp, yes, each rocket will succeed, it will sink each of the 16 frigates. And the Turkish sailors in your coffee for days on ships ?! You can count on ships (in the Turkish Navy, there were 133 warships, in the Russian Black Sea Fleet - 39) and on firepower. Are you aware that the Black Sea Fleet has not been updated since the collapse of the USSR? That is, in general! Only now Novorossiysk has come. Unless the total age of the ships, the Black Sea Fleet will give a figure larger than the Navy of the Turks.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 29 November 2015 22: 27 New
                0
                Well, what is new among the Turks? As many as eight frigates of the Oliver Perry type. Well, a fleet of sixteen corvettes like our "Guardian", crazy power.
                16 German submarines of 1500 tons each.
                All ships of varying degrees of freshness as in our fleet. Armed with a harpoon subsonic missile.
                Where did you get 133 warships?
                1. Stirbjorn
                  Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 23: 08 New
                  +1
                  8 Perry + 8 newer types of MEKO 200. Is submarines having such a displacement bad? Slightly smaller than the Lada. They can’t go to the ocean, but it’s quite good in armament. 4 corvettes of the Guardian type, alas, constitute the striking power of the Baltic Fleet. But even they are not at the Black Sea Fleet.
                  Regarding the Turks, the Black Sea Fleet has no freshness - almost all ships over 30 are good. The Turks have almost none.
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 29 November 2015 23: 37 New
                    0
                    Quote: Stirbjorn
                    8 Perry + 8 newer types of MEKO 200

                    “Moscow” for one salvo. In addition, Russia has the Northern Fleet, Peter the Great will come up and bring one “Ash” and two “Anthea” on the tail and that’s all, put out the water, drain the light.
                    But there is no need to use the Northern Fleet against the Turks, and the main caliber of Moscow will not be involved, the Turks are inferior in terms of weapon quality, all the same, the harpoon is a subsonic missile, inferior in target designation, according to electronic warfare.
                    In fact, Turkey has one hope for the F-16, hold out to the help of NATO allies.
        3. sa-ag
          sa-ag 29 November 2015 11: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Wedmak
          If at least one bomb falls on the territory of the Khmeimim base,

          The territory of the Khmeimim base is Syrian territory
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. Old warrior
          Old warrior 30 November 2015 22: 32 New
          0
          Before dropping the bomb, you still need to fly to the Base ...
      2. 3officer
        3officer 29 November 2015 10: 59 New
        +2
        What will we do? [/ Quote]

        The same as they did. Expand the Assad’s control zone, ignore the so-called “moderate” opposition of Turkoman, Turkophiles and others who do not want to put down an automatic machine. If regular Turks cross the border - blame them too, do not subscribe to any “buffer” zones and others " Geneva "formats. Carry and unload in Tartus MLRS, end with" point "therapy and start" intensive ".
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 11: 15 New
          +2
          Quote: 3officer
          If regular Turks cross the border - to blame them, do not subscribe to any "buffer" zones and other "Geneva" formats.

          Bring down ?! Comparison of forces - compare the Turkish army and our small expeditionary force, located on a small patch in Latakia. One brigade of marines against the entire Turkish army ?! Or is the old cruiser Moskva against the entire Turkish fleet, quite modern?
          1. 3officer
            3officer 29 November 2015 11: 29 New
            0
            They will cross the border of SYRIA SYRIA (this is not Turkey), they (the Turks) did not hurt to shoot down the SU, which did not even cross the border.
          2. KaPToC
            KaPToC 29 November 2015 16: 15 New
            0
            You take an interest in the composition of the "whole" Turkish fleet! “Moscow” is redundant here.
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 17: 07 New
              0
              Quote: KaPToC
              You take an interest in the composition of the "whole" Turkish fleet! “Moscow” is redundant here.
              Unlike you, I studied it very well. And not only me, I gave the article above, with VO. Looks like stubbornly ukroflot for Turkish accept. Or, of those who seriously believed that the crumbling Kerch did not allow the American Nimitz to enter the Mediterranean Sea.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 29 November 2015 22: 08 New
                0
                Turkey has no Nimits, and there are no cruisers, and there are no destroyers. And what do they have?
                What does Turkey have to give a fight to “Moscow”?
                1. Stirbjorn
                  Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 22: 57 New
                  0
                  And what, in fact, frigates do not suit you? Eight modern frigates carry eight cruise missiles each, eight former Americans each 8. In total 8 + 8 = 4, against 32 at Moscow. I will tell you more, our new frigate of project 64 Admiral Gorshkov carries 96 Caliber, and including the rest of the armament is not inferior to Moscow in combat power, while having more than half the displacement and crew. What other arithmetic do you need? The Turks do not need a large ocean fleet, in the form of destroyer cruisers. Where do they turn around there?
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 29 November 2015 23: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Stirbjorn
                    In total 32 + 64 = 96, against 16 at “Moscow”.

                    Here they thought earlier, they counted a volley of 152 EMNIP missiles from the Turks.
                    I will clarify the volley of "Harpoon" against ... "Granites"? Are you kidding me? Yes, "granites" beat harpoons according to the formula 3x3x3, three times faster, three times further, three times more explosive.
                    "Moscow" carries 64 48N6 missiles, which have the ability to hit surface targets, this is the closest analogue of the "Harpoons" in terms of performance characteristics.
                    "Gauges" inferior to "Granites" in weight of the warhead.
                    P.S. And the "volcanoes" too.
      3. andj61
        andj61 29 November 2015 14: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        Quote: Pilot Bin Bom
        I hope there are enough missiles and bombs for air darts, should that happen.

        They have more than 200 F-16s available. And we have only one S-400 there, and Moscow with its Fort, and of course patriotic pictures and videos from couch special forces. What we are going to do?

        Indeed, the forces on ALL Turkish Air Force in Syria are not enough. But there are also trump cards in the sleeve - you can always move closer to the theater of operations - for example, in Armenia - several four modernized Mig-31BMs (and this is almost a Russian AWACS in miniature), and the A-50U can be used for guidance. Then the chances in the air almost equalize. Moreover, without the transfer of fighters to Syria - and you can do this too. In addition, there is always the opportunity to work out with Caliber, long-range and strategic aviation for the necessary goals, as has already been done with respect to terrorists.
        But I very much doubt that all this will have to be done. Erdogan was bluffing, his bluff was revealed - and politicians usually do not bluff to the end, it is fraught not only with a career, but also with life.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 16: 13 New
          0
          Quote: andj61
          But there are also trump cards in the sleeve - you can always move closer to the theater of operations - for example, in Armenia - several four modernized Mig-31BMs (and this is almost a Russian AWACS in miniature), and the A-50U can be used for guidance.
          Firstly, if you look at the map, it is necessary that Georgia or Azerbaijan agree to transit through its territory, and they are unlikely to give it in such a situation. Azerbaijan is so generally with the Armenians on knives, I am generally silent about Georgia. And then, in the event of any collision from Armenia, the Turks would instantly occupy them, the Azerbaijanis would gladly beat them in Karabakh.
          Quote: andj61
          In addition, there is always the opportunity to work out with Caliber, long-range and strategic aviation for the necessary goals, as has already been done with respect to terrorists.
          Well, let’s say, part of the Caliber will go somewhere bypassing the Patriots and the F-16. Just what will it give? The Caliphate, I note, did not fall apart from these attacks, and Turkey is not a Caliphate at all. In the same way they can work out on our objects from airplanes and their ships. I’m silent about the 14 diesel engines that paralyze shipping to us in the Black Sea.
          Quote: andj61
          Erdogan was bluffing, his bluff was revealed - and politicians usually do not bluff to the end, it is fraught not only with a career, but also with life.
          What is the bluff and what is revealed? Our plane was shot down, as promised, moreover, it was immediately trumpeted, although ours tactfully declared that the rebels had been shot down from the ground. Erdogan also said that they would continue to shoot down. I don't see any bluff yet hi
    2. Alexanast
      Alexanast 29 November 2015 10: 41 New
      +7
      Well, for them, the chrysanthemum has not bloomed yet
  19. onix757
    onix757 29 November 2015 10: 02 New
    +2
    It is possible and necessary refuse to rest in Turkey, but this is not enough. For instance, can and should refuse to buy Beko household appliances (brand of the Turkish corporation Ko Holding Durable Goods Group). Beer consumption is evil, but the consumption of beer by Efes, that is, Turkish Anadolu Efes Biraclk ve Malt Sanayii A. is not only evil, but also sponsorship of Turkish terrorist accomplices. If you have a deposit or account in Europe Credit Bank, which belongs to the Turkish oligarch Husnu Mustafa Ozeyegin, then closing it will be a beautiful patriotic gesture. I also want to hope that wearing Colin's Turkish consumer goods will soon become bad form


    Can the state refuse all the same?
    1. onix757
      onix757 29 November 2015 10: 19 New
      +3
      I will explain. From this quote it follows that Turkish goods will not disappear from the shelves of retail chains, and citizens will have to impose “sanctions” on themselves. Absurd. My opinion is conditional sanctions, which are far from fatal for Turkey. Everything within the ideology of "business is business." Meanwhile, Turkish gimbals are putting on gazelles, although we will look at which list of banned goods DAM will expand on Monday (although this can be circumvented, given the presence of Turkish production in Russia)
  20. RuslanNN
    RuslanNN 29 November 2015 10: 04 New
    +7
    You can minus, but for some reason I believe in the rapprochement between Turkey and Russia, but without a crazy, inadequate Erdogan. There are also a lot of voices against the provocations against Russia. The Turks understand that the stripes used them the next time and threw them like a rubber product number 2. And I am sure that there will be more and more such voices. Erdogan showed that as a politician he is zero, the litter of mattresses.
    1. Afinogen
      Afinogen 29 November 2015 10: 13 New
      0
      Quote: RuslanNN
      but for some reason I believe in the rapprochement between Turkey and Russia, but without a crazy, inadequate Erdogan.


      So the sanctions will accelerate the rapprochement, as soon as the Turks realize that life has become much worse, they will quickly throw off the fart, arrange the Turkish Maidan (sanctions will be started for this) And this will take a very long time, then the fart will declare itself a sultan and hand over the reins to his son and so on.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: Athenogen
        So the sanctions will accelerate the rapprochement, as soon as the Turks realize that life has become much worse, they will quickly throw off the fart, arrange the Turkish Maidan (sanctions will be started for this) And this will take a very long time, then the fart will declare itself a sultan and hand over the reins to his son and so on.

        Well, well, something Poroshenko no one takes off. Pink dreams again, now with the Turks wassat
        1. Afinogen
          Afinogen 29 November 2015 10: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          Well, well, something Poroshenko no one takes off.


          Everything is ahead, the time of this power is drawing to a close. Being determines consciousness. Time-tested formula. yes
  21. veksha50
    veksha50 29 November 2015 10: 07 New
    0
    "there will be no warbut there will be such a struggle for peace that little remains of the world "...

    Yeah ... but there will be such a struggle for peace that now there will be a howlMore precisely, he already exists ...
  22. Arzoo
    Arzoo 29 November 2015 10: 09 New
    -1
    S-300 need to deliver the Kurds.
    1. gg.na
      gg.na 29 November 2015 10: 17 New
      0
      And not only the S-300 can throw something else! yes
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 30 New
        +2
        For almost a year we have been unable to deliver to Iran, and you are the Kurds. Well this is not a slingshot, but a complex and expensive complex
      2. Alexanast
        Alexanast 29 November 2015 10: 44 New
        +9
        It is possible, of course, but as the Kurds correctly noted in the article as a monkey with a grenade, hell knows where she will throw it.
  23. Vladimir71
    Vladimir71 29 November 2015 10: 10 New
    +4
    Pin-dos want to oppose Turkey to Russia in the form of a second Ukraine but eco-economically more wealthy.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 29 November 2015 11: 00 New
      0
      in the form of a second Ukraine but eco-economically more affluent.


      first did not live up to expectations? We should also pin something up, "substantial and tangible," in order to prevent ... In Mexico, for example, or in Cuba ...
    2. Andrew
      Andrew 29 November 2015 11: 30 New
      0
      It's right. Turkey is “an attempt to number two,” in Ukraine it was not possible to draw in, even firing at our territories and filling up the Boeing, they are trying to be creative with the Su-24 here, God forbid, if possible ... S-s-s-s-uki .. . am
  24. pvv113
    pvv113 29 November 2015 10: 11 New
    +6
    Turkey has one serious trump card in relations with the Russian Federation. Ankara may close the straits through which the Russian group in Syria is supplied and Russian oil is exported

    The question is not new. He was already procrastinated 40 years ago. As always, Andrei Andreyevich Gromyko was on top
    Curiously, in the late 70s, Turkey stated that it was considering closing the passage through the Bosphorus to the Mediterranean for warships of the Soviet Union.
    To this statement, comrade Gromyko Andrei Andreevich (USSR Foreign Minister from 1957 to 1985) told American journalists at a cocktail party at the White House that a passage to the Mediterranean Black Sea Fleet of the USSR would require only a couple of volleys of missiles. As a result of this, in addition to the Bosphorus, two more passages will appear in the Mediterranean, but, alas, there will be no Istanbul. After these words, Turkey never again raised the issue of closing the Bosphorus to the warships of the USSR. Maybe the time has come for Russia to remind Ankara about this again?

    http://historicaldis.ru/blog/43660781327/Kak-Gromyiko-Bosfor-zaschitil?utm_campa
    ign = transit & utm_source = main & utm_medium = page_0 & domain = mirtesen.ru & paid = 1 & pad = 1
    1. Manul
      Manul 29 November 2015 11: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: pvv113
      Turkey has one serious trump card in relations with the Russian Federation. Ankara may close the straits through which the Russian group in Syria is supplied and Russian oil is exported
      The question is not new. He was already procrastinated 40 years ago. As always, Andrei Andreyevich Gromyko was on top

      Based on this, the conclusion should be as follows. If the Turks say that "the strait is now closed for us," we must answer - "no, this is the strait for you now closed!"
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 29 November 2015 11: 57 New
        +1
        Quote: Manul
        If the Turks say that "the strait is now closed for us,"

        may not say anything, just "suddenly" in the strait will suffer something large-scale disaster
  25. Sasha75
    Sasha75 29 November 2015 10: 11 New
    +1
    I repeat and I will repeat, they caved in with the Ukrainians and get further worse it will not be even more likely to wipe out the legs, the tougher the answer, the less willing to touch.
  26. Zheka40
    Zheka40 29 November 2015 10: 12 New
    -15
    And again about the straits, dumb-headed author.
  27. gg.na
    gg.na 29 November 2015 10: 14 New
    +1
    We are now participating in the First World Hybrid War. Victory will be expensive and not soon, but it will be ours.
    (of course, maybe not quite in the topic, I apologize) If anyone has a desire, then you can read here: winked http://www.rusfront.ru/9456-tretya-mirovaya-mozhet-nachatsya-v-blizhayshie-mesya

    cy.html. THIRD WORLD MAY BEGIN IN THE COMING MONTHS
    Not everything is clear to me alone; in this scribble I decided maybe one of those present will be able to express his opinion on this opus. repeat
  28. veksha50
    veksha50 29 November 2015 10: 19 New
    +2
    "By the way, the very fact of the existence of modern Turkey is the result of the idealism of the leadership of the USSR. The history of Russia itself, on the example of Bulgaria, Turkey and even Ukraine, teaches us that mercy and idealism, regardless of motivation, - it is a dangerous luxury in geopolitics"....

    Hmm ... Cool ...

    In general, I liked the article ... Without tantrums and distorting the facts ... And the sentences are normal ...

    The author of the article is definitely a plus ...
  29. Monos
    Monos 29 November 2015 10: 23 New
    +4
    The main pain point of the Turks is their cunning and greed. On a cunning ass there is a penis with a screw, and greed is defeated by chopping off hands (according to an old Turkish recipe).
  30. vitya1945
    vitya1945 29 November 2015 10: 24 New
    +8
    A good article, more facts, the enemy must know in person.
    I also hope that they will recall the large, “Russian” tour operators Pegasus, Anex, Coral. These are Turkish companies. They are 100% owned by Turkish citizens.
    And this is currently about% of tourist flow.
  31. vitya1945
    vitya1945 29 November 2015 10: 25 New
    +1
    I apologize for about 80% of the tourist flow in Russia.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: vitya1945
      I apologize for about 80% of the tourist flow in Russia.

      Now apologize again, for 12% of everything fellow
      1. vitya1945
        vitya1945 29 November 2015 11: 07 New
        0
        No, I won’t apologize anymore after the transaero (Biblio Globus transported its small flows) by the aforementioned Turkish tour operators transported the lion's share of Russian tourists.
        I mean tourists buying tour packages and flying charters, not regular flights.
  32. Yar Ga
    Yar Ga 29 November 2015 10: 26 New
    -3
    Select Constantinople! The straits, respectively, too! Forfeit for unpaid rent and recall all troubles ..
  33. cormorant
    cormorant 29 November 2015 10: 26 New
    +1
    Erdogan seems to have one way to stay in power, this is intervention in Syria. I hope that plans and goals for Turkey are already ready at the General Staff. At the beginning of the Syrian company, GDP once said that all options for the development of events were provided. You don’t have to be Wanga to guess that such a turn was also foreseen.
  34. provincial
    provincial 29 November 2015 10: 27 New
    -2
    “We’ll boldly go into battle, and we will follow you. And as soon as we die, they’ve got the wrong way.” - Prophetic comments are tired, believe Uncle Vova.
  35. mivmim
    mivmim 29 November 2015 10: 28 New
    +2
    The best thing in the article is the ending.
    Victory will be expensive and not soon, but it will be ours.
  36. Lexeus
    Lexeus 29 November 2015 10: 41 New
    -1
    What is Outskirts, what is Turkey
  37. Rigla
    Rigla 29 November 2015 10: 46 New
    +1
    The surest way is to provide the Kurds with comprehensive assistance, you need to fan the flames of the civil war in Turkey, in any case, the Kurdish response of the Russian Federation is Turkey’s nightmare. And this must be pressed.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 29 November 2015 10: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Rigla
      The surest way is to provide the Kurds with comprehensive assistance, you need to fan the flames of the civil war in Turkey, in any case, the Kurdish response of the Russian Federation is Turkey’s nightmare. And this must be pressed.
      This is all true, only it was necessary to do this much earlier, and not to kiss on the gums with partners, like Erdogan. We must also teach us how to use weapons, work out the supply of channels - we do not have a land border with the Kurds. And this is all the time, and further exacerbation can happen at any time and no S-400 complex, in a single copy, will scare anyone here. Is that significantly raised the spirit of local couch warriors soldier
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 29 November 2015 11: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        This is all true, only it was necessary to do this much earlier, and not to kiss on the gums with partners, like Erdogan. We must also teach us how to use weapons, work out the supply of channels - we do not have a land border with the Kurds.

        And then, sawing off from Syria, Iraq, Iran territory in gratitude to the Kurds?
  38. nobody
    nobody 29 November 2015 10: 47 New
    -4
    The author is beautiful)))
  39. Darkoff
    Darkoff 29 November 2015 10: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Civil
    Quote: Boris55
    Quote: Civil
    Once again, they allowed themselves to be drawn, but not for the Power of the Soviets, we were going into battle ... The rake of the First World did not teach us anything.

    Once again, they threaten us to go to war with us. We did not start this hybrid. Not our bases are at their borders. We did not introduce sanctions, etc. And what do you think we should do? Relax and have fun like in 90?
    No, really. As Putin said, if a fight is inevitable, you have to beat first.


    Bases have been standing for more than 50 years, no one will climb into a fight with a nuclear power. Who are you? YOU and your oil towers?

    And who are you?
  40. povojdtrf
    povojdtrf 29 November 2015 10: 54 New
    0
    Wladimir Klitschko lost all champion titles in a fight with Tyson Fury
    Wladimir Klitschko lost all champion titles in a fight with Tyson Fury
    Photo: spotrs.ru
    The Briton won the Ukrainian on points.

    In Dusseldorf, a boxing match was held between Briton Tyson Fury and Ukrainian Vladimir Klitschko. The fight ended with a Fury victory in 12 rounds by unanimous decision. Score of referee notes: 115–112, 115–112, 116–111.

    Thanks to this victory, the Briton won the IBF, IBO, WBO and WBA world champion titles that previously belonged to the Ukrainian.

    Note that today Klitschko Jr. has 64 victories (53 by KO) in 68 fights. Fury won 25 wins (18 by KO) in 25 battles.

    Wladimir Klitschko lost the last time in April 2004. Then, in a fight for the vacant WBO world title, he lost after five rounds by TKO to American Limon Brewster.
    Speaking of "Nicknames", that is, about the birds ...
    1. Lelek
      Lelek 29 November 2015 12: 48 New
      0
      Quote: povojdtrf
      In Dusseldorf, a boxing match was held between Briton Tyson Fury and Ukrainian Vladimir Klitschko. The fight ended with a Fury victory in 12 rounds by unanimous decision. Score of referee notes: 115–112, 115–112, 116–111.


      So for sure, Tyson Fury thoroughly thoroughly “cleaned up the ebala” to the Kiev mayor, so we are not surprised if the latter’s speeches are even more expressive and informative.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. lecturer
    lecturer 29 November 2015 10: 58 New
    0
    Quote: mivmim
    The best thing in the article is the ending.
    Victory will be expensive and not soon, but it will be ours.
    , I agree, but I would also add from the words of the author:
    There are two additional areas of action - the support of the Kurds and the impact on the economic interests of Turkey.
    , it seems a "trifle" (!) - but, the author is clever, did not miss such a "trifle" !!!
  43. Gunther
    Gunther 29 November 2015 10: 58 New
    +2
    Bad luck also starts at near Turkish NGOs and the Azerbaijani-Turkish business, which so far feels very good in some sectors of the Russian economy.

    It’s high time to kick this kublo out of Russia, they fed the Majlis and that's enough.
  44. Gypsy girl
    Gypsy girl 29 November 2015 11: 08 New
    0
    Thank you for the article. Everything is clear, extremely clear good
  45. chelovektapok
    chelovektapok 29 November 2015 11: 08 New
    +1
    Why click there? In addition to paying all-inclusive hotel permits, each vacationing family from Russia left 1500-2500 & there (this is only on a budget and without buying leather-jewelry). How many millions went there? Multiply if? Yes, the "crisis" did not pass Turkey ... Firms from construction to trade, did Turkish earn Russian bread? If you cut off ... oops to the Ottomans! Nobody except the Russians needs their entire hotel development of the coast. Those who are except- minuscule.
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 29 November 2015 11: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: chelovektapok
      Nobody except the Russians needs their entire hotel development of the coast.

      The Germans go there and a lot, the British still
    2. Petrik66
      Petrik66 2 December 2015 03: 12 New
      +1
      Why wishful thinking? RF - no more than 30% of the total flow. Germans and Turks from Germany, French, British, Italians. Many of the "old" Turkish resorts, ours do not go at all.
  46. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 29 November 2015 11: 15 New
    0
    Quote: kopatich
    comment for comment ?? catch minus !!!!

    koment for the sake of minus. catch minus
    1. 3officer
      3officer 29 November 2015 11: 38 New
      -1
      Quote: Denis-Skiff
      Quote: kopatich
      comment for comment ?? catch minus !!!!

      koment for the sake of minus. catch minus


      Minus minus equals plus catch +
  47. polite people
    polite people 29 November 2015 11: 18 New
    0
    It would be great for overseas “colleagues” to arrange computer hell from our cyber-military units. But apparently they do not want to do this, so as not to reveal our workpieces. But the tickling nerves should have tickled their nerves.
  48. nagel_Oz
    nagel_Oz 29 November 2015 11: 20 New
    +1
    Good day!
    If we consider the Turkish events in the aspect of the "creeping" isolation of Russia, then everything is logical:
    In Europe, we have no countries to rely on, Lebanon is destroyed in BV, Iraq, Syria is almost incompetent, and these are countries of a traditionally pro-Russian direction. Muslim radicals, Saudis, Qatar are calling for Jihad against Russia, they are expecting new troubles with the “northern bear” with hope. Turkey is now in a race. Ukraine and Poland, the Baltic countries, openly hostile to us. And this is the whole perimeter of our borders. In the Western media, Putin’s image is described as a tough, incapable politician. Not without the help of our liberals, we are reproached for the lack of democracy and freedom. Do not forget about the sanctions and the consequences for the budget and the economy. Of course, it was chaotic on the axis, but if we discard "it was lost", then the country's leadership is really a difficult and difficult situation. But what we are doing right now in relation to Turkey, the East does not accept Christian ideology, you are hit, put the other cheek.
  49. Alexandr2637
    Alexandr2637 29 November 2015 11: 25 New
    +3
    Turks must be deservedly punished for the act of war!
    Little about Russia feet wiped in the 90s? Enough!
    Well, if the NATO jackals want to start a big war, they will do it ...
    Forty-first passed ....
  50. Anisim1977
    Anisim1977 29 November 2015 11: 26 New
    0
    As for alternative resorts, Jura Sumy recommends taking a closer look at the islands of Yemen. Sumatra - if memory serves.
    In general, it’s not a sin to adopt some of the “light elves” - to recommend that citizens rest only where our military bases are.
    Simply, if you cut Turkey economically, you have to play long.
    And the Kurds of Syria and Iraq must firmly guarantee that in Syria and Iraq they will have autonomy or the same form and content that we have in the Crimea - I think this will completely suit them.
    And to explain that a single Kurdistan devoid of access to the sea is worse than three autonomies with access to the sea and having a free economic and other zone between themselves.