Military Review

Indian armor and weapons (part 1)

57
And it was like this that several visitors to the HE turned to me with a request to tell about the armor and weapons of the warriors of India of past eras. It turned out that the information for this is quite enough. And not even for one material. And besides, a whole series of photographs of original Indian weapons Not only from European but also from Indian museums, and although they are not distinguished by high quality, it will certainly be interesting to look at them. Well, then everything will be like this:


"With chariots and elephants, and horsemen, and many ships"
(The first book of Maccabean 1: 17)

"He does not count diamonds in stone caves, do not count pearls in the noonday sea ..." - this was the opinion of Europeans about the riches of India for many hundreds of years. However, the main wealth of India was not at all precious stones, but in iron! Back in the times of Alexander the Great, Indian steel was valued very highly and was used to manufacture only the best weapons. Famous centers of weapons production in the medieval East were Bukhara and Damascus, but ... they received metal for it from India. It was the ancient Indians who seized the secret of the production of damask steel, known in Europe under the name Damascus. They also managed to tame and use elephants in battles, and just like their horses, they dressed them in armor of chain mail and metal plates!


War elephant. Philadelphia Museum of Art.

In India, produced several grades of steel of different quality. Steel was used to manufacture various types of weapons, which were then exported not only to the markets of the East, but also to Europe. Many types of weapons were inherent only in this country and were not used anywhere else. If they were bought, they were considered as a wonder. Chakra, a flat throwing disc used in India right up to the middle of the 19th century, was very dangerous in capable hands. The outer edge of the disc was razor sharp, and the edges of its inner hole were blunt. When throwing, the chakra was strenuously spun around the index finger and thrown into the target with all its scope. After that, the chakra flew with such force that at a distance of 20 – 30 m could cut the trunk of green bamboo 2 thick, see. Sikh warriors wore chakras on their turbans at once in several pieces, which also protected them from above by saber impact. Damask chakras were often decorated with a gold notch and inscriptions of religious content were made on them.

Indian armor and weapons (part 1)

Chakra. Indian throwing ring. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

In addition to the usual daggers, the Indians used the kutar very widely - a dagger with a handle perpendicular to its longitudinal axis. From above and below it had two parallel plates, ensuring the correct position of the weapon and at the same time protecting the hand from another's strike. Sometimes they used a third wide plate that covered the rear of the brush. The handle was held in a fist, and the blade was like an extension of the hand, so that the blow was directed by stronger muscles of the forearm, not the wrist. It turned out that the blade was an extension of the arm itself, so that they could strike from various positions, not only standing, but even lying prone. Kutars had both two and three blades (the last could stick out in different directions!), Have sliding blades and curves for every taste!


Kutar with guard to protect the hands of the XVI. Weight 629,4 (Metropolitan Museum, New York)


In India, no matter what museum you go in - kutara at every turn!

A very original weapon was a pair of antelope horns, which had steel tips and joined on the same handle together with the guard to protect the arm, with tips in different directions. Nepal was the birthplace of the knife-shaped kukri. It was originally used to cut its way through the jungle, but then it fell into the arsenal of Nepalese Gurkha warriors.

Not far from India, on the island of Java was born another original blade - Chris. It is believed that the first crises were made in Java by a legendary warrior named Juan Tuah in the 14th century. Later, when Muslims invaded Java and began to persist in planting Islam there, they also became acquainted with this weapon. Having appreciated these unusual daggers, the invaders began to use them themselves.


Who and why could in the XVIII century. Do I need such a sword? (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

The blades of the first crises were short (15 – 25 cm), straight and thin, and entirely made of meteoric iron. Later they were somewhat lengthened and made wavy (flame-shaped), which facilitated the penetration of arms between the bones and tendons. The number of waves varied (from 3 to 25), but it was always odd. Each set of convolutions had its own meaning, for example, three waves meant fire, five were associated with five elements, and the absence of bends expressed the idea of ​​unity and concentration of spiritual energy.


Malay kris. (Museum in Yogyakarta, Indonesia)

The blade, made of an alloy of iron and meteorite nickel, consisted of several repeatedly forged layers of steel. The moir-like pattern on its surface (pamor) formed during processing of the product with vegetable acids, so that the grains of resistant nickel clearly stood out against the background of deeply etched iron, gave the weapon a special value.

The double-edged blade had a sharp asymmetrical expansion near the guard (ganja), often decorated with a slit or ornamental notch. Kris handle was made of wood, horn, ivory, silver or gold and was carved, with a more or less sharp bend at the end. A characteristic feature of the kris was that his handle was not fixed and easily turned on the shank.

When the weapon was grabbed, the handle's bend was located on the little side of the palm, and the upper part of the guard covered the root of the index finger, the tip of which, together with the tip of the thumb, squeezed the blade base near the bottom of the ganja. Tactics of applying Chris meant quick injection and stretching. As for the "poisoned" crises, they were prepared very simply. They took the dried seeds of the dope, opium, mercury and white arsenic, carefully mixed everything and pounded in a mortar, after which the blade was covered with this composition.

Gradually, the length of the kris began to reach 100 cm, so in fact it was no longer a dagger, but a sword. All in all, in Southeast Asia, up to the present, there are more than 100 varieties of this type of weapon.


The sword of the hand is on the right.

In general, the cold steel of India and the lands closely located to it was extremely diverse. Like many other peoples of Eurasia, the national weapon of the Hindus was the straight sword of the hand. But they also used their own types of sabers, distinguished by a relatively small curvature of the wide blade, starting from the very base of the blade. Excellent craftsmen of forging, the Indians could make blades that had a slot on the blade, and pearls were inserted into it, which rolled freely in it and did not fall out! You can imagine the impression that they made, rolling in the slot, on an almost black blade from the Indian damask. No less rich and pretentious were the arms of Indian sabers. Moreover, unlike Turkish and Persian, they had a cup-like guard to protect their hands. Interestingly, the presence of the guard was also characteristic of other types of Indian weapons, including even such traditional ones as mace and shestoper.


Shamshir is a saber of the Iranian-Indian type, beginning of the XIX century. from Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh. Length 98,43, see. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Very curious were the Indian chain mail with a set of steel plates in front and behind, as well as helmets, which in India in the XVI – XVIII centuries. Often they were made from separate segmented plates connected by chain mail. Kolchugi, judging by the miniatures that have reached us, were both with long and with short sleeves to the elbow. In this case, they are often supplemented with braces and elbow pads, often covering the entire brush.


Bakhterets XVII. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Horse warriors often wore elegant bright robes over the chain mail, many of which had gold-plated steel discs on their chest as additional protection. Knee pads, hornbags, and leggings (chain mail or in the form of solid metal plates) were used to protect the legs. However, in India, metal protective footwear (as in other countries of the East), in contrast to the protective footwear of the Knights Europeans, did not spread.


Indian shield (dhal) XIX century. from Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh. (Royal Ontario Museum, Canada)


Indian shield (dhal) from Rajasthan, XVIII century. Made from rhino skin and embellished with rock crystal umbrons. (Royal Ontario Museum, Canada)

It turns out that in India, as well as in all other places, right up to the 18th century, the armament of a heavily armed cavalry was purely knightly, although again not as heavy as it was in Europe until the 16th century. It also widely used horse armor, or, at least, cloth blankets, which in this case were supplemented with a metal mask.

The kichin horse shells were usually exuded from the skin and covered with a cloth, or it was lamellar or laminary shells gathered from metal plates. As for horse armor, in India, despite the heat, they were popular until the XVII century. In any case, from the memories of Afanasiy Nikitin and some other travelers it can be understood that they saw the cavalry there "fully dressed in armor", and horse masks on horses were trimmed with silver, and "most of them are gilded", and the blankets are sewn from multicolored silk, velvet, satin and "Damascus fabrics".


Armor from India XVIII - XIX centuries. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Sophisticated oriental onions were also well known in India. But due to the characteristics of the Indian climate - very humid and hot - such onions were not widely spread. Having excellent damask steel, the Indians made small bows out of it, suitable for horsemen, and bows for the infantrymen were bamboo in the manner of solid wood bows of English shooters. Indian infantry XVI – XVII centuries. Long-barreled wicker muskets, equipped with bipods for shooting convenience, were already quite widely used, but they were constantly lacking, since it was extremely difficult to produce them in large numbers in handicraft production.


Indian bow and arrows.

In addition, the use of firearms is not very well consistent with the moral and ethical views of the Indians. So, in one of the Sanskrit texts of the time it was said: "A commander should not use any guile (meanness) in war, should not use poisoned arrows, nor large or small fire implements, nor any fire-fighting devices."


A feature of the Indian strike weapons was the presence of a guard, even on shestopery and maces.

As for the chivalrous position of the Indian soldiers who served in the heavily armed cavalry, everything here was exactly the same as in other regions of Eurasia. For the warrior caste, Amaram land plots were allocated, which were given for life under the condition that a certain number of well-armed soldiers were put up. In turn, these large land plots, their owners in parts transferred to their vassals, and they received income from the peasants. The actual independence of the great princes led to endless strife between them, which foreign conquerors constantly used. Only one of them - the Samanid ruler Muhmud of Ghazni in one of the campaigns to the north of India captured 57 thousands of slaves and 350 war elephants, not counting gold, precious stones and other prey.


Armor for the rider and horse. Iran, India. Around 1450 - 1550 (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

In 1389, India was greatly affected by the invasion of Tamerlane, who captured and plundered Delhi, and captured many of its inhabitants.


Swords are straight, but with a blade somewhat curved at the end. For medieval India, this is normal!

But the power of the Delhi sultans delivered the most severe blow to their own vassals, who, because of their dissatisfaction with the rule of Sultan Ibrahim Lodi in 1525, called for the help of the ruler of Kabul Sultan Babur.

A descendant of Tamerlane and the experienced commander Babur himself defeated Ibrahim Shah and seized his throne. The decisive battle between them took place at Panipat 21 on April 1526. Despite the numerical superiority of the Delhi army, which also had 100 war elephants, Babur won a full victory thanks to the skillful use of his numerous artillery. Moreover, to protect the cannons and musketeers, Babur skillfully used fortifications from wagons, which for this were tied with belts.

As befits an orthodox Muslim, Babur ascribed his successes to the will of Allah: “As I hoped,” he wrote in his notes “Babur-name,” the great Lord did not make us suffer and endure in vain and helped us overcome a strong enemy and conquer vast state like Hindustan. "


1700 Helmet (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Since Babur came to India from the territory then called Mogulistan, and he also considered himself a descendant of Genghis Khan, the Indians began to call him and all those who came with him, Mogul, and his state the Great Mogul state.

The cavalry, as before, remained the main striking force of the Mughal army, therefore, to prevent the feudal lords from embarrassment, who did not want to put the required number of cavalry warriors and appropriating the salaries due to them, one of the rulers introduced mandatory branding of horses. Now the troops to be displayed must necessarily have horses with the brand of every sovereign prince.

After 30 years, the Indians rebelled, and again in the second battle of Panipat 5 on November 1556, their army consisting of 100 000 people and 1500 fighting elephants was defeated by Sultan Akbar’s 20 army. The outcome of the battle, and this time decided to prevail Mughal artillery. Under fire from the guns, the Mughal attacks on the elephants turned to flee and crushed the ranks of the Hindu forces, which led them to utter defeat.


Helmet made of cloth with a gasket of the XVIII century. Weight 598, 2 g. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

It was the artillery that dominated the battlefields in the internecine wars of the claimants to the throne in the Mughal Empire, which the Indian historian Sarkar described as "a sword dispute with gun powder." And French doctor Bernier (1625 –1688), who spent 12 years in India, in his book “History the last political upheavals in the state of the Great Mogul "wrote:" He (Aurangzeb) ordered all the guns to be built in the first row, linking them one with another with chains, in order to block the path of cavalry. Behind the cannons, he built a large number of light camels, tied at their front small cannons the size of a double musket ... so that the person sitting on the camel's back can load and unload these cannons without going down to the ground ... "


Portrait of Shah Aurangzeb on horseback. Around 1650 (San Diego Museum of Art).

A few pages further, Bernier detailed the organization of the then Indian artillery: “Artillery is divided into two kinds. The first is large or heavy artillery, the second is light, or, as they call it, stepmen. As for heavy artillery, I recall that ... this artillery consisted of 70 cannons, mostly cast iron ... mostly cast, some of which are so heavy that you need 20 pairs of bulls to haul them, and to attach some elephants so that they help the bulls, pushing and dragging the wheels of the carts with their trunks and heads, when the guns get stuck or when you have to climb a steep mountain ...


Siege of Rathambor fortress. Akbarneme. OK. 1590 (Victoria and Albert Museum, London).

The aspiring artillery, which seemed ... very elegant and well-trained, consisted of 50 or 60 small field bronze guns, each placed on a small cart, well-made and well-painted, with a trunk in front and behind for projectiles; she was driven by two beautiful horses; the driver was driving her like a stroller; it was decorated with small red ribbons, and each had a third horse, led by the coachman-gunner, led by the bridles ... ". “The artillery triumphed over the cavalry here,” concluded Bernier.


Yushman. India 1632 - 1633 g. Weight 10,7 kg. (Metropolitan Museum, New York)

Thus, it turns out such a curious moment as the role of the animals themselves in the battle and the associated specificity of their combat use. It is clear why the horse became the main fighting animal of man: it is strong enough to carry a heavily armed rider, and with appropriate training it can very well help him in battle. By the way, it was the Indians who were the first to start training horses in the East. The earliest written information on the care and training of horses was left to us by Kikkuli, the horse stable of the Hittite king around 1400 BC. er The surviving texts are written in Hittite writings and the Babylonian cuneiform on clay tablets and contain detailed instructions on how to tame horses, care for them and harness the chariots. However, some specific terms and figures suggest that many of these data in the Kikkuli treatise were borrowed by the Hittites from the Indians.
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  1. DanSabaka
    DanSabaka 16 November 2015 07: 39
    +1
    Very interesting, thanks ....
    But I would like to learn more about weapons and martial arts in ANCIENT INDIA, before the arrival of Muslims and Europeans ....
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 07: 55
      +5
      ANCIENT INDIA is worse. I work on the basis of historiography, that is, the one who wrote something about it. And somehow I didn’t come across a special study on this topic. Mostly the books of D.Nikol, but this is understandably not an exhaustive source. And since India was conquered all the time, little of the ancient weapons remained there.
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 16 November 2015 10: 54
        +4
        After reading your next article, I was once again convinced that we still have a bias towards European history. Sometimes we know more about the Scarlet and White Rose war than about the whole history of the Ancient East. In the West, this case is even worse. They perceive the history of the countries of the East exclusively from the position of a colonialist. Very informative article, thanks.
        1. Glot
          Glot 16 November 2015 11: 07
          +1
          Sometimes we know more about the Scarlet and White Rose war than about the whole history of the Ancient East.


          Come on. These things are not comparable in principle. THROUGHOUT the history of the Ancient East, thousands of wars of Lancaster and York will fit, fit and dissolve in it. So their struggle for the throne is a trifle in comparison with the East.
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 16 November 2015 16: 50
            +1
            [quote = Glot] [quote] THROUGHOUT the history of the Ancient East, thousands of wars of Lancaster and York will fit, fit and dissolve in it. So their struggle for the throne is a trifle in comparison with the East. [/ Quote]
            Who would argue with that. Please note which museums exhibit photos of exhibits, London, New York, San Diego, Ontario, Philadelphia ... I agree with the first post that there is nothing about India before the arrival of Muslims and Europeans. When the history of the country is written by the conqueror, it will always be wrong, surrogate. Would you like the history of our country to be written (in the last resort) by the Germans, Dutch, English? I recommend you read the history of India in the works of N.K. Sinha and A.Ch. Banerjee. You will find it without difficulty. This book of Indian historians has been republished in our country since 1954. You will not regret.
            1. kalibr
              16 November 2015 17: 51
              0
              Totally agree with you! But among the winners was R. Kipling, who wrote, in addition to the familiar Mowgli, a KIM novel. What would I recommend reading to anyone interested in Indian culture.
            2. Glot
              Glot 16 November 2015 19: 08
              +1
              Please note which museums exhibit photos of exhibits, London, New York, San Diego, Ontario, Philadelphia ... I agree with the first post that there is nothing about India before the arrival of Muslims and Europeans. When the history of the country is written by the conqueror, it will always be wrong, surrogate. Would you like the history of our country to be written (in the last resort) by the Germans, Dutch, English? I recommend you read the history of India in the works of N.K. Sinha and A.Ch. Banerjee. You will find it without difficulty. This book of Indian historians has been republished in our country since 1954. You will not regret.


              Why from Western museums? So how much did they transport WORLDWIDE to their artifact museums? DARKNESS !!!
              Since you say that there is a book of Indian historians, and already since the 54th year it has been reprinted, then everything is in order, everything is being studied.
              In principle, I will tell honestly the history of India until Muslims and Europeans were not interested. I was interested in the Indian campaign of Alexander the Great, I was interested in the Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek kingdoms, I was deeply interested, there was interest in the Kushan kingdom. It seems as though everything were casually to India but, not to her in detail. In general, the information on Dr. India is. Those who need it and are interested.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. kalibr
          16 November 2015 11: 17
          +1
          You know this is not entirely true. There is a lot of literature on the East. The same D.Nikol worked in the British branch of the BBS in Jordan, then he received a master's degree at the University of Edinburgh, and the topic of his dissertation was just Eastern culture and he knows her well. In English museums there are a lot of artifacts from India and Iran, the originals of Firdousi Shah-name ... I see how it got there, I see. But it has been preserved and is being studied. In Edinburgh, the Faculty of Oriental Studies is one of the strongest in the world!
          1. Glot
            Glot 16 November 2015 11: 23
            +1
            You know this is not entirely true. There is a lot of literature on the East.


            There is a good book on Iran by Richard Fry, The Legacy of Iran.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        4. but still
          but still 16 November 2015 17: 25
          +2
          According to the testimony of the ancient historian Herodotus, the Thracian people (called the Thracian by the ancient Hellenes, in fact, we are talking about about 90 of the oldest related tribes of the so-called Thracians - the same Scythians, Odrisses, Pelasgians and many, many others) was the MOST NUMEROUS after the Indian. Orpheus and Dionysius were from these peoples who lived in the Balkans, in the Black Sea region (before the Flood the Black Sea was a sweet-water lake), the Azov Sea. Orpheus lived in the region of the Rhodope Mountains (the territory of modern Bulgaria). The largest number of archaeological evidence of the so-called Thracian life was found there, although the most ancient places of ancient civilization are the Varna and Durankulak regions. So MULTIPLE ancient historians have a description of the fact that Dionysius made a trip to India. In the region of Pakistan and northern India, there are traces of the Thracian civilization. Some modern historians believe that the Thracian language influenced Sanskrit (Thracian moved to Old Bulgarian, and in Old Bulgarian and Sanskrit there is a category of DUAL NUMBER, not to mention other numerous similarities). BUDDHA - BUDDHISM - a consequence of the Thracian influence of DIONYSIA - ORPHEISM is very close as the doctrine of BUDDHISM.

          Read the studies of Bulgarian scholars - as early as the beginning of the 20th century there were such studies of Thracian culture. And at the time of Sots, some Bulgarian scientists did not give up. But, unfortunately, due to political considerations, all these works were blocked.
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 16 November 2015 19: 18
            0
            According to the testimony of the ancient historian Herodotus, the Thracian people (called the Thracian by the ancient Hellenes, in fact, we are talking about about 90 of the oldest related tribes of the so-called Thracians - the same Scythians, Odrisses, Pelasgians and many, many others) was the MOST NUMEROUS after the Indian.
            Could you elaborate on the sources of your version?
            In the region of Pakistan and northern India, there are traces of the Thracian civilization. Some modern historians believe that the Thracian language influenced Sanskrit
            And about that too. Some historians are who exactly?
            1. but still
              but still 17 November 2015 15: 50
              0
              Back in 1911, the Bulgarian historian Gancho Tsenov, who speaks ancient Greek, Hebrew, Latin, having studied many sources, including the secret archive of the Vatican (which took the wealth of his German wife), published his scientific works in Germany, where he defended the thesis that the Bulgarians, those who allegedly came to the Balkans in the 7th century (the Bulgarian history was written before by all and sundry, but not the Bulgarians), not newcomers, but the indigenous people of the Balkans. There the continuity of the ancient Thraks (Trucks) and Bulgarians is proved. After World War II he was declared a Great Bulgarian chauvinist and his works were banned. During the Socialist era, revision of history was also impossible again due to political considerations, but there were scholars who studied the so-called Thracian culture. In 1977 the linguist Prof. Georgiev compared the Old Bulgarian and the reconstructed Thracian. And after the 90s, dozens of Bulgarian scientists have been working on this topic. In Russian, I did not have the opportunity to find educational films on YouTube, but there are many of them in Bulgarian. Write "Thracian civilization" in Bulgarian and dozens of films will appear where professors and associate professors present their point of view. And you don't need to know the language to understand what is at stake smile
    2. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 16 November 2015 11: 17
      +1
      Very informative, thanks
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. War and Peace
      War and Peace 16 November 2015 19: 22
      0
      among the Indians, the ax was called TABAR, and the ax curved PARASHA-Mahabharata ...
    5. The comment was deleted.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 16 November 2015 08: 02
    +2
    There is a book, Tales of the Peoples of Asia, Detgiz, 1978, a magnificent edition, in the drawings, warriors, heroes have the weapons and weapons that are shown in the photo .. For a long time the artist’s fiction thought ..
    ... They knew how to draw up earlier ... Thank you ...
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 08: 19
      +3
      In 1978 I worked as a school teacher in a village and ... a lot of things passed me by. And since the 82nd I taught the history of the CPSU and did not even think about this topic. And when he became interested, the topic turned out, of course, broader than the weapons of India itself. And if it were not for my daughter's friend there, I would not have had half of what I have on this topic. Of course, there is the Kunstkamera in St. Petersburg and I was there twice, but ... to be and get what you want ... So it's hard to look for interesting and reliable information. And then "fairy tales" ... These are copies of drawings from Baburname, Akbarnam ...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 16 November 2015 11: 02
        +1
        These are copies of drawings from Baburname, Akbarnam.... No ... no .. that’s how it was so vividly portrayed, precisely according to the plot of one or another fairy tale .. Swords, shields and especially kris were especially remembered ..
  3. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 16 November 2015 09: 21
    0
    Now I’ll answer, and then I’ll add it. Your question is about the knife in photo 5 above. I think - only for even greater torment suffered from this knife. However, like the wavy, serpentine Chris. Increase internal damage and suffering. Accordingly, --- no hope.
  4. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 16 November 2015 09: 29
    0
    I wrote to that article and now I will repeat it: I saw, finally, the covers of your books on the net. I also liked books and topics. Today - I’ll call there. By the way - the tablet after my words about your dear and rare book on a Japanese theme, sends me an advertisement for books from 10000 rubles. Something like this. Now - I’ll read it.
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 11: 19
      0
      It's a terrible thing ... it was you who grabbed the "advertising label" and now they will not leave you for a long time!
  5. Glot
    Glot 16 November 2015 10: 34
    +2
    Who and why could in the XVIII century. Do I need such a sword? (Metropolitan Museum, New York)


    Indeed, the construction of an obscure purpose.
    1. marline
      marline 16 November 2015 11: 44
      0
      Quote: Glot
      Who and why could in the XVIII century. Do I need such a sword? (Metropolitan Museum, New York)


      Indeed, the construction of an obscure purpose.

      By the way, the trip to the photo is Zulfikar, the sword of the prophet Muhammad ... I found a similar one, besides a curve ...
      1. Glot
        Glot 16 November 2015 11: 48
        +1
        By the way, the trip to the photo is Zulfikar, the sword of the prophet Muhammad ...


        No, this is not Zulfikar. That one should have a bifurcated (double) blade wavy (flaming).
        1. marline
          marline 16 November 2015 12: 26
          0
          Certainly not Zulfiqar, but made under the influence ... The types of swords with a forked blade are often called "zulfiqar", here is a European example:
      2. kalibr
        16 November 2015 12: 13
        +1
        What a wonderful photo you have found! Apparently, apparently, it was like this: the traditional weapon of the Arabs is the sword. Not a saber! But then a saber appeared and the "end" was bifurcated to create Zulfikar. At the same time, the IDEA appeared in India and someone did the way ... they understood!
        1. marline
          marline 16 November 2015 12: 27
          +1
          Most likely it is. By the way, the Indian saber - tulvar / talwar was different from both the Persian shamshir and Turkish kilich ... in the photo she is holding a hand sword (on the left).
    2. Metlik
      Metlik 16 November 2015 12: 08
      +1
      I think, as conceived by the master, such a sword could catch, break or tear the sword of the enemy out of the hands. The shape of the front end suggests exactly this idea. Although it is unlikely that an experienced opponent will allow it to be done.
      1. Glot
        Glot 16 November 2015 12: 28
        0
        I think, as conceived by the master, such a sword could catch, break or tear the sword of the enemy out of the hands. The shape of the front end suggests exactly this idea. Although it is unlikely that an experienced opponent will allow it to be done.


        I think that all these fanciful weapons weren’t at all fighting, and so, the masters didn’t do it for battle, but show their skill. As now, just what kind of knives they don’t make, sometimes such twists are crafted that you don’t understand why and why. But the good old NRs or something close based on them are taken into battle.
        So it is with these obscure sabers and swords.
        1. Metlik
          Metlik 16 November 2015 12: 52
          +1
          Quote: Glot
          this fanciful weapon was not at all combat

          The police and security also need something to arm, and disarming and interrogating a spy or killer is more important than killing him.
          1. Glot
            Glot 16 November 2015 13: 26
            0
            The police and security also need something to arm, and disarming and interrogating a spy or killer is more important than killing him.


            I don’t know about the police. Just for an example, here I have one knife. I love different knives. So he is absolutely not working, so to speak. The master that forged it, did it specifically to represent what he can. Beautiful damascus, a wave-like blade, a hilt, a bolster and so on - everything is on the level. He took him to exhibitions with him; he looked good, attractive and unusual at the stand. I didn’t want to sell at all, but I sold it all the same. So now he lies with me, as an indicator of what the Master can do - THING! How exactly is a knife - a working tool - full of seams. You will not cut them off, and you will not imprison them because of the shape of the blade. But here lies the beauty and all.
            I think the same here. Or something like that.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 16 November 2015 14: 33
        +3
        No, a split tip penetrates better through chain mail or cotton robes. Do not forget that all nations had good full armor very expensive. The bulk of the wars were equipped much worse. Given the very hot climate, even more so.
        Such a blade is just adapted to an injection through chain mail and all sorts of Bahrera. This allows the blade to penetrate deeper into the armor. Of course, this reduces the strength of the blade and its effectiveness against more expensive large-plate armor.
        To catch the enemy’s blade in such a gap in a fleeting battle between two proffes is not very promising. And even fatal for those hoping for such a technical device.
        1. brn521
          brn521 16 November 2015 15: 13
          0
          Quote: abrakadabre
          a split tip penetrates better through chain mail or cotton robes

          What is it like? In a sense, how does duality contribute to this? As for me, there are only problems from her, either the blade weakens, or the center of gravity is too far ahead of the handle. And this sword, the author correctly noted, does not fit into such a concept at all. Usually they write about such that this is one of the attempts to misinterpret the descriptive phrase "double-edged sword". On the forums they write that cutting with such blades is rather disgusting, since the ends vibrate relative to each other.
          1. marline
            marline 16 November 2015 16: 02
            0
            Quote: brn521
            On the forums they write, cutting with such blades is pretty disgusting, since the ends vibrate relative to each other.

            Well, somehow the Indians fought them. smile
            Although considering such brain-breaking examples of Indian weapons as "urumi" and "pata", such a sword is still nothing ...
            1. brn521
              brn521 16 November 2015 16: 31
              +1
              Quote: merlin
              Well, somehow the Indians fought them.

              Remembered what the subject reminds me of. Strop cutter. Serrated serrated teeth, which make it easier to cut laminated and fibrous materials - ropes and ropes, for example. And the tip is again "anti-rope". As a result, we get a kind of boarding saber from the times of sailing ships. I read somewhere that the boarding team, having burst onto the deck of a complex trophy, in the meantime tried to damage as many gear as possible. If the boarding was repulsed, then all the same the ship lost its course and became uncontrollable. And on land I don't even know. Can cut nets, or stretch marks near tents. In general, the naval theme suggests itself.
              1. marline
                marline 16 November 2015 17: 49
                +1
                Nevertheless, I think that with the help of the slot they tried to knock out the sword ... By the way, at one time I came across a photo of a double catarrh and also with a serratore sharpening, now I can not find it, but here is a photo of a double:
                1. Kombrig
                  Kombrig 17 November 2015 18: 23
                  0
                  Quote: merlin
                  Nevertheless, it is thought that with the help of the slot they tried to knock out the sword ...


                  It seems that if the enemy’s blade enters this slot, the brush will be injured - or broken, or dislocated ....
                2. Metlik
                  Metlik 17 November 2015 19: 46
                  0
                  Quote: merlin
                  Nevertheless, it is thought that with the help of the slot they tried to knock out the sword

                  If you hit the guard area with the end of the sword, the enemy’s sword will certainly fly out of your hand, and the slot will not allow the strike to slip. If it didn’t succeed, then a dagger would be used.
              2. Kombrig
                Kombrig 17 November 2015 18: 19
                0
                Quote: brn521

                Remembered what the subject reminds me of. Strop cutter. Serrated serrated teeth, which make it easier to cut laminated and fibrous materials - ropes and ropes, for example. And the tip is again "anti-rope". As a result, we get a kind of boarding saber from the times of sailing ships. I read somewhere that the boarding team, having burst onto the deck of a complex trophy, in the meantime tried to damage as many gear as possible. If the boarding was repulsed, then all the same the ship lost its course and became uncontrollable. And on land I don't even know. Can cut nets, or stretch marks near tents. In general, the naval theme suggests itself.



                I support, it is very similar to a boarding saber ... well, very ...
          2. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 16 November 2015 18: 44
            0
            My post was not about this miracle Yudo, but about "zulfiqar".
            either the blade weakens
            That yes
            or the center of gravity carries too far forward from the handle.
            How is this ?!
            What is it like? In the sense of what contributes to this split?
            The fact that the narrow ends break through the rings of chain mail more easily, in contrast to the "thicker" one in the usual blade. And with equal effort, such a "fork" goes deeper. But only for chain mail or printed (or felt) protection. There were always more opponents with such types of armor on the battlefield than men at arms.
            1. brn521
              brn521 17 November 2015 09: 46
              0
              Quote: merlin
              Nevertheless, it is thought that with the help of the slot they tried to knock out the sword ...

              In this case, the blade grip on the swords / sabers should be located closer to the guard. Only under this condition will the advantage in power be ensured.
              Quote: abrakadabre
              How is this ?!

              Yes, it seems clear. Or a weak blade. Or its strength is provided by additional metal, and this is at the end of the blade. If you think of a blacksmith to make a "broom" instead of bifurcation, it will get even worse.
              Quote: abrakadabre
              The fact that narrow tips break through chain mail rings more easily

              You did not understand the question. One narrow tip would be enough to pierce chain mail. And the second will only interfere. At least double the effort to break through. And then even rests against the articulation of the rings and draws on itself immediately 2-3, braking the entire blade.
  6. marline
    marline 16 November 2015 10: 37
    0
    Thank you for the article.
    Perhaps, there is only one remark: in the last photo, it was more likely to glimpse, or, in extreme cases, a footman, but not like Yushman.
    I really liked "Armor from India of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries." - I saw colonies in the form of cuirasses, but not a whole armor, but there is a photo in high resolution?
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 11: 24
      +2
      So this: the armor you are interested in is in the museum’s Metropolitan Museum of Photography (weapons and armor), there should also be photos of enlarged details and a detailed description. Very detailed and BIG!
      What is the trick ... They are there 1450 !!!! And when you start to look at them, sorting through, here it is, from top to bottom ... CLEAR ON ALL PHOTOS this time !!! The next day, others will come out and so CONSTANTLY. So if you saw something but didn’t download ... it’s not a fact that you will see it tomorrow or you will see it at all. And something comes out every time. Therefore, TO VIEW ONCE MANY TIMES AND ALL WHOLE. It is ... difficult, very difficult and requires a lot of time and nerves. One of my colleagues tried it - and that's all!
      1. marline
        marline 16 November 2015 11: 29
        0
        Worth a try. thanks for the advice
  7. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 16 November 2015 11: 14
    0
    I’ll add: I read --- horses and war chariots were the first to use the ancestors of the Hindus, but ... not in India! They were nomads Aryans, ancestors also the Slavs. From them the chariots came to Mesopotamia, and from there (through the mediation of the Hyksos) --- to Egypt. And in India, horses were great wealth, because there they did not breed.
    Sources:
    Mortimer Wheeler. Ancient Hindustan. M. Center polygraph. 2005.
    Bamber Gascoigne. The Great Mughals. M. Center Polygraph. 2003.
    In the book "Treasures of the East". M. World of encyclopedias Avanta +, Astrel, (AST), 2009, only 2 pages are given to melee weapons: 86 and 87, but what a beauty! dagger. The handle is carved from three emeralds, India, late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth century. There are edged weapons, richly decorated with gold and precious stones. The State Hermitage also has something to see. In general, only now I had the idea that you can look at ancient Indian monuments for the purpose of studying weapons - after all, there is so much there! Also reliefs.
    I look and think: why on the Indian chakra (Fig. 2 above) --- Tibetan letters ??? After all, I read in Sanskrit. (By the way, --- and in Hebrew). I am generally interested in languages ​​with different internal logic, not like Russian and English.
    I am just delighted with the start of your new cycle !!!
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 12: 17
      +2
      Alas, there will be no cycle as such. Only three materials. The last one is about the fortress. And one can only envy you: know Hebrew, Sanskrit ... I envy! Did my letter reach you in a personal message?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 16 November 2015 13: 51
        0
        Three articles --- this is just such a cycle that an ordinary non-specialist reader can easily overcome without forgetting what was in the beginning. It is more convenient to scroll back with a book than with a computer.
        And you, please, refer to that last article, the end of all comments. And then I will write to you in a personal my "mournful" thoughts about the impact of the press on me personally. Perhaps you will be interested.
  8. mishastich
    mishastich 16 November 2015 11: 47
    +1
    I always considered the Indian weapon before the Mughals very strange, but also glad to start a new cycle.
    I hope that having understood the Hindus, you will begin the cycle about the Mongols and their epigones. good

    Sincerely.
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 12: 20
      +2
      I published a book in England about the Volga Bulgars, and the warriors of the Kazan Khanate, but ... this is not for Russia, well, a complete compillant from the works of our historians. For foreigners, this revelation is something that happened in Russia, but I am ashamed to give it to "our people".
  9. marinier
    marinier 16 November 2015 11: 59
    +1
    Good time of the day!
    Thanks to the author. Was it menia interesting?
    fine artwork4ataia work of the artisans. And without modern
    tools.
    And even the scale of ancient battles. How did they deal with such a masa
    troops, without modern sviazi systems and navigation. Yeshe discipline is undermined.
  10. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 16 November 2015 12: 17
    0
    Vyacheslav! I ordered 2 of your books, promised within 10 days. When I get to write that. And about the advertising label - it's okay. It's not just books. Something was successful about the housework. I wrote this for you, because You need an increase in income.
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 14: 06
      +1
      Well, yes, now I will wait for royalties and enrich myself incredibly (just kidding!).
  11. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 16 November 2015 14: 20
    0
    I want to add: when I started learning Hebrew --- I thought that I was learning the Bible Language. When I learned --- it turned out to be 2 different languages! There was no strength to learn the second Semitic language. This language is interesting because it is new and lively.
    I don’t know: did you manage to read my last comments to that previous article ...
  12. chelovektapok
    chelovektapok 16 November 2015 17: 14
    0
    Just look at the blades ... Almost the Kama Sutra in metal! Only if the Kama Sutra helped them multiply without an economic basis with a poor majority, then the bladed pretentiousness with a minus sign came out. Military exploits mainly in "mahatmabarahanda" or whatever it is .... Antediluvian legends and that's it!
    1. kalibr
      16 November 2015 17: 45
      +3
      Mahabharata - "the great story of the battle of the descendants of Bharata" is interesting because it was created over the centuries and in it one can trace the strata of one era, then another. And this is an interesting literary source. The British even studied it for historicism.
  13. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 16 November 2015 17: 59
    -4
    "It was the ancient Indians who mastered the secret of the production of damask steel, known in Europe as Damascus" wassat
    Mommy, for what ... The illiteracy of this statement is quite worthy of a teacher of history of the CPSU. Whatever the word, all that ... this ... well, in general ...
    The secret of damask steel is that there is no secret in it. At all. Absolutely. Absolutely no! Three bars are taken. One is mild steel, one is hard and one is resilient. They repent in the furnace and are welded to each other by blacksmithing. Then the received package is bent and welded again. Then again. Then again. A few hundred times. Depending on how many times the packet was cooked, whether it was twisted, strip thicknesses, etc. it turned out a different pattern on the blade. Stepped, grape, banded, grain, etc. etc. All the blacksmiths knew this. Everything!
    And what then is the "secret" of damask steel? The fact that there were no pyrometers then. And the deviation from the welding mode by only 10 degrees led to the fact that the blade would be destroyed. Slightly higher temperature - burnout! A little lower - undercooked! You forge a sword for six months (the standard period of such work) and suddenly a clap - all the work is lost. And the temperature could be controlled only by the color of the metal, by the eye, and by the feelings of the blacksmith. And six months' work, which went into marriage, in those days meant starvation for the blacksmith ...
    In general, only Russians decided to forge damask steel - very courageous people. Damascus was forged in the east - the same technology, but the Oriental blacksmiths lacked the courage of Russian, so Damascus is a chronic lack of goods. Nedovar is not as dangerous as a burn, they managed to sell blades. And in order to mask the voids and cracks characteristic of the under-supply, and moreover, it is better to fool the buyer, they adapted in Syria to silver silver in voids! Nice, yeah.
    But what about the Indians? And they had nothing to do with damask or Damascus or their "secrets". And the Indians were able to do something else - to smelt high-quality steel at a level inaccessible to anyone else in that world. That was their secret. It is this, and not wild, illiterate, meaningless statements ...
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 16 November 2015 19: 44
      +7
      Firstly, you are somehow impolite to write to people whom you do not know personally.
      Three bars are taken. One is mild steel, one is hard and one is resilient.
      Secondly, TWO rods are taken. The third one is like a saddle for a cow. And by the way, "elastic steel" - what kind of fruit is this? Steel is elastic only after heat treatment. Any steel in the annealed state is quite soft and in no way elastic.
      Then the received package is bent and welded again. Then again. Then again. A few hundred times.
      Thirdly, it is immediately obvious that a person does not own the subject to put it mildly. With tenfold bending, two to the tenth degree or 1024 layers are formed. When the thickness of the finished blade is 5-6 mm (at the handle), the thickness of a single layer will be 6 mm divided by 1024 or rounded 0.0059 mm.
      If you try to bend the package 100 times, then the number of layers will hypothetically become 2 to the hundredth degree.
      But in fact, it will not. Because this way you just get a homogeneous material. There will be no layers left. And the material in this case will turn out - the purest ... mo. Because with every heating, carbon will burn out of the good steel of the package. In addition, with each heating, part of the iron itself will go to scale. So by the hundredth heating of a 2-3 kilogram billet, you will have enough metal left if a couple of sewing needles, just not steel, but soft iron.
      In practice, when forging Damascus, it rarely makes sense to make more than 10-12 bends, that is, from 1024 to 4048 layers. There is no sense from this - all the material and a lot of hard work will go to scale.
      In general, only Russians decided to forge damask steel - very courageous people. Damascus was forged in the east - the same technology, but the Oriental blacksmiths lacked the courage of Russian, so Damascus is a chronic lack of goods. Nedovar is not as dangerous as a burn, they managed to sell blades. And in order to mask the voids and cracks characteristic of the under-supply, and moreover, it is better to fool the buyer, they adapted in Syria to silver silver in voids!
      Fourth, you can find out where did you get this secret knowledge? from personal experience, al what luminary from "history" taught?
    2. Proxima
      Proxima 17 November 2015 02: 14
      +3
      Dear Mikhail3, you would be ashamed to expose your ignorance in such a way. It's even embarrassing to refute your post. I suggest that you use your brain matter a little yourself and think about some questions. Have you heard about such scientist-metallurgist Pavel Petrovich Anosov? In the 40s of the nineteenth century, he discovered the secret of obtaining damask steel, which was lost. What do you think he discovered then? Your knowledge in the field of metallurgy is certainly "impressive", but as they say in such cases, some of you screw up. Something tells me that it is not the metallurgical scientist who is screwing up, but you. Sincerely.
      1. brn521
        brn521 17 November 2015 10: 34
        +2
        C'mon, that pounced. It’s fun. Without such a comment, a discussion is not a discussion.
        Quote: Mikhail3
        In general, only Russians decided to forge damask steel - very courageous people.

        The Russians simply had nowhere to go. The main iron in our territories is swamp. Bad, but almost ubiquitous. Extraction of this ore and its enrichment was one of the most common operations in our territory. In winter, they heated stoves for heating and kept pots with ore in them. In this case, the tree was above the roof. This contributes to advanced metallurgy even more than the presence of good ore deposits. The more coal available during smelting, the higher the temperature and the resulting material is more carbon-rich. True, there are more losses in ore, but when ore and coal are widely available, this is not critical. Take our same forests. First of all, birch trees grow on the clearings, which, as far as I remember, give quite decent coal for smelting ore. Compare with the Middle East, where the main fuel available to the population, often turned out to be only dung.
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 17 November 2015 12: 51
          +2
          You have not answered about the source of your information. Therefore, there are only two options:
          1. Either there are none and this is all your fabrication.
          2. Or you are a highlander who lives forever (if they don’t cut off his head) and were an eyewitness.
          1. brn521
            brn521 17 November 2015 18: 20
            0
            Quote: abrakadabre
            You have not answered about the source of your information.

            Link to my post, so I’ll answer where I got about birch trees and temperature: http://aftershock.su/?q=node/24724.
            And about the "magic damask", which is no longer from my post, and which could only be forged by Russians, so for this, it is clear to the science fiction writers. Almost literally copied from here: http://knijky.ru/books/ten-voina?page=66.
            My business was only to indicate that the Russians had nowhere to go. With their technology, a conventional, non-magic welding damask was the only way to secure a decent weapon. Crucible steels were inaccessible due to lack of materials, and even ineffective in the cold, judging by the words of the same Al-Biruni.
  14. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 18 November 2015 20: 37
    0
    There are a lot of Indian things in the British arsenal, as they say, they borrowed a lot of things during the Austin company.