Military Review

“There is no instrument making. Machine tool no. These were industries. Now there are none. ”

159
“There is no instrument making. Machine tool no. These were industries. Now there are none. ”



Mikhail Sergeevich Shkabardnya - Doctor of Technical Sciences, Hero of Socialist Labor for the project “Energy-Buran”, Winner of the USSR State Prize (1976), Deputy Minister, Minister of Instrument Engineering of USSR Automation and Control Systems (1967 − 1989); Managing Director of the USSR Council of Ministers (1989 − 1990)

REGNUM: Today it has become customary that all the electronics around us are imported. Or the so-called "screwdriver" production. When we only collect from spare parts, imported from somewhere from abroad. You were the Minister of Instrumentation and Automatic Control Systems of the USSR. Minister - non-existent industry today. It turns out that we had neither instruments, nor control systems, nor electronics. Either it was all so poor quality, what's the shame to say?

- Some kind of nonsense. Let's start with this. Before Russia, the revolution of 1917 was not aviation industry. Shipbuilding, by the way, was some kind. Instrumentation - was not. Machine tool construction was very weak. We will not even talk about electrical engineering. And - look at the country after the industrialization program, when factories were built, when there was capacity to produce. After all, in the end, for this you just need to take statistical reports for those years. At least for the last five years. For example, 1980-1985. Everything is clearly and clearly painted there. What place the Soviet Union began to occupy in various sectors of the national economy. In Europe - in almost all areas, we occupied leading places. Just like in the world. Here, the progress was so obvious ... All power plants, nuclear plants, the nuclear fleet - all this was built with a huge contribution from instrument engineering. All. Indeed, the first nuclear power plants were built in Russia and the Soviet Union, the first nuclear ice drift was built in the USSR. First. All equipment, technical process control - all these were our control systems. On our technology completely. The submarine fleet was equipped with a control system and an enemy ship detection system. And space? After all, this is known, and the achievements of the Soviet Union are accepted throughout the world. And there the contribution is incredibly huge, including instrument makers. I received a hero star for the development and successful testing of the Energy-Buran complex. This is not a joke. We have built a whole underground city in Baikonur. There was placed, including computer equipment. The software was done. Everything to ensure the successful implementation of the program. Everything was very serious. In the same reclamation. Without the instruments of our industry, the industry simply could not ... We could not buy anything abroad. We did everything ourselves.

REGNUM: Because we did not sell?


- Well, of course, did not sell. An embargo on the supply to our country was introduced on the increasingly modern. Especially in recent years. When they talk about sanctions against us today - well, it's not news. Constantly there was an embargo, back in time, when we worked. There were serious limitations on new technologies. Electronics, computing - in the first place. Of course, this is, in general, not very pleasant. But some kind of disaster for us today, I do not see. Because the defense industry has always been quite independent. Thank God, in my opinion, there are still some resources. It is unpleasant, it will hinder, restrain. But it can be experienced.

REGNUM: And what was exported? After all, something even exported to capitalist countries.


- In our industry was, say, the watch industry. Where worked about 120 thousands of people. By the 1989 year, we produced about 60 − 65 million hours per year, of which 30% was exported.

REGNUM: To the countries of the West or for their socialist states?


- Yes, to the West. We delivered a lot to England, to France, to Canada, sent a lot. The British Queen even wore watches produced by the Uglich watch factory. Here, I worked at the Krasnodar electrical measuring instruments plant, we exported a lot

REGNUM: What kind of devices went abroad?


- Electrical appliances is the measurement of electrical parameters. Equipment of various enterprises - power plants, energy systems, metrology and so on. Our plant in Krasnodar was the only one in the world that produced potentiometers with an accuracy of five ten-thousandths of a percent. There was no one at all such devices. These potentiometers played a major role, including in equipping the Mission Control Center. You see, here, our Krasnodar electrical measuring instruments plant is 14 thousand people. Special Design Bureau (CSC), which I managed for five and a half years. We had 600 people of developers, labs and so on. We had a branch there of the All-Union Institute of Electrical Equipment. That is, it was a powerful structure. There was an experimental workshop. About 20 new devices only at this factory we did a year. We did special development of high-speed recording instruments. These were devices for detecting underground nuclear and other explosions. It should have been relatively cheap, significantly reliable and accurate instruments. In service, they were very simple - there the soldiers could serve. Immediately gives amplitude, frequency. And by these parameters, you can determine where and what power occurred. This I just give as an example. And there were just such 130 − 140 research institutes.

REGNUM: In general, in the industry?


- Yes. And they were all profiled. Engaged in all directions. There were special test institutes. These are machines "on a break" and so on. Institutes for special introscopy and non-destructive testing. Here, we see when we enter the subway, in the stations - all these installations of scanning, control, detectors, and so on. This was all our technique.

REGNUM: the framework of metal detectors?

- Yes of course. But it's not just about the framework. It was also very important for the same "Buran". He would not have been without such equipment. It is clear that I am only talking about our site of work. It was necessary to know everything for sure - strength, composition of materials, physics and everything else. And there were plenty of such directions. Analytical technology. More 20 factories and research institutes.

REGNUM: This is all, let's say, victory. What was bad?

- We are sometimes scolded, and correctly, on computer technology. Yes, we had serious lags. Because we in the camp arrived relatively late to this. Only after reforms, 1965 of the year was created by Microelectronprom.

REGNUM: Are you talking about Kosygin reforms?

- Yes. Aleksandr Ivanovich Shokin was a wonderful minister. An electronics center appeared in Zelenograd, the Institute of Electronic Engineering (MIEM), the Institute of Electronic Engineering (MIET). Our element base, of course, lagged behind. Significantly, ultimately, on the level of our products. But nevertheless, the gaps were shrinking all the time. And we, our ministry, the radio industry, special communications, we actively began to produce computers. Naturally, our equipment was our electronics at the base. Even personal machines, we later began to produce. Computers And the gap has become less and less. And there was no serious tragedy. And what doubts about this? We had defense weapons based on our own developments, with our foundation.

REGNUM: With our electronic "stuffing". Sometimes it seems that if we hadn’t been so clumsy in publicity and restructuring with the destruction of the entire industry, then we might have had a completely different situation. We were "killed" as competitors under democratic slogans. And after 1991, the year just continued what was started in 1985. And today we order the same Mistrals in another country ...

- Yes ... Well, what about Mistrali? Did you see these helicopters at the exhibition, which the Mistrals should have been equipped with? This is what we have developed. Even after all ... What is the potential left!

REGNUM: What is left?


- What can I say here. There is no instrument making industry. Machine tool no. There is no electrical engineering. Electron industry is not. There is no special connection. There is no radio industry. These were - the industry. And now they are not.

REGNUM: And there are not even any "islands" on which you can rely?

- Well, some separate plants are remnants. These were not just factories - whole complexes! We now have a plant in Kazan - not bad, it works. And so ... Dismantled in parts, sold and resold ... After all, the Ministry of Instrument Making in the USSR was the first and only - of course, not in all the formats that were intended - whose enterprises, in the industry, switched to full cost accounting. We brought profits. They were not just self-sufficient, but earned, brought income to the state. Not a penny taken in the total budget. At the same Krasnodar Plant of Measuring Instruments, at least two residential buildings per one hundred apartments each were built annually. Factory "zipovskaya" hospital - still one of the best. And so on.

REGNUM: When they talk about import substitution today, what actions can we expect in reality?

- I do not know. Perhaps I already do not understand anything. But as it is possible - on TV they show us that someone stole or squandered billions - and no one bore any responsibility. Real responsibility. It says one thing, but in life - another. If we have already seen the same thing for 25 years - and nothing changes - then what next to expect? I do not want to make any accusations, nor to the government, any structures ... They just can not.

REGNUM: And how long can all this go on?


- For a long time. I'm afraid for a long time. Why do I say that? Because we have already grown another generation. In a different environment and with a different understanding of life, with different values. The generation came out, unfortunately, poorly educated. They are not to blame for this. The system has been disbanded. There is no motivation to work, to vocational training, no motivation to the family. But there was a system that shaped it. There were schools, technical schools, colleges, regular, factory, universities. Institutes of advanced training were in each ministry. This is very important. There was the Academy of National Economy - the highest level was prepared. It's all ruined.

REGNUM: One of the complaints against you, the Soviet ministers, is that you did not defend the country. Do you accept?


- I can tell about myself. Not like a minister. Yes. I was a member of the Central Committee of the CPSU. And as a man I scold myself, saying that, being a member of the Central Committee, I probably should have taken a more active position. But I must tell you that it is impossible to say that I was silent. I can show a large selection in Pravda, Izvestia, where I repeatedly published articles that everyone did not care about.

BakuToday: Restructuring began, in fact, one person - the General Secretary of the CPSU. Today, everything again comes up against the decisions of the first person of the state - the country's president. And many say that it is necessary to purge the elite, to “cut” a very presumptuous part of this elite.

- No, it will never be so you know.

REGNUM: Why?


- For this you need a person with special qualities. Such a person is generally born very rarely. And I do not know whether it will be born in our environment at all. This type of person who will take it ... It's very difficult. And society should be ready for this. Here you have to do everything very carefully. And we live without a national idea. We have no ideology. There is no purpose. And without a goal, it is not known to which harbor a ship will sail. Moreover, the national idea should be generally accepted, accepted by the whole society. This idea should be framed in the Constitution, in the Basic Law. The law must be a real flag, a banner, a shrine for any citizen of our country.


REGNUM: Who will form this, what kind of people, what social or political forces?

- Now I still do not see who will do it today.
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  1. Maxim Shilin
    Maxim Shilin 5 November 2015 05: 41
    78 th
    Regular reflections on the topic "Putinslil", it is strange that they did not write that we still do not have an aviation and space industry)))

    I especially liked the phrase:

    "IA REGNUM: Who will shape it, what people, what social or political forces?"

    - Now I don't see who will do it today.
    1. Mahmut
      Mahmut 5 November 2015 06: 33
      13 th
      Before the revolution of 1917, there was no aviation industry in Russia

      So, after all, the aviation industry in the USA was not there until the Russian engineer Sikorsky moved there.

      And there was also the slogan "Our calculators are the largest calculators in the world"
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 5 November 2015 06: 41
        16
        Quote: Mahmut
        Before the revolution of 1917, there was no aviation industry in Russia

        Historical information
        The development of its own aviation production in Russia took place at the beginning of the 262th century, simultaneously with other developed states, however, it was relatively slow. Before the First World War, the Russian Empire possessed the largest air fleet in the world, although almost all the aircraft in it were of foreign manufacture. The first major order for Russian aircraft - for 1914 aircraft - was received only in May 1917. At the same time, Russia practically lacked its own production of aircraft components and components, which significantly impeded the development of the aviation industry. Nevertheless, by 15, there were already 6 aircraft manufacturing and 5 engine manufacturing plants operating in the Russian Empire, which produced a total of 600 aircraft (mainly licensed by European companies).http://www.investinregions.ru/investor/industry/avia/history/
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 5 November 2015 20: 55
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Nevertheless, by 1917, there were already 15 aircraft manufacturing and 6 engine manufacturing enterprises operating in the Russian Empire, which produced a total of 5 aircraft (mainly licensed by European companies)
          Strictly speaking, this is not so.
          By 17, 9 enterprises were actually engaged in the production of aircraft; two more were mainly built, but they did not start production.
          And motors were produced at 7 plants.
      2. sa-ag
        sa-ag 5 November 2015 07: 06
        +4
        Quote: Mahmut
        So, after all, the aviation industry in the USA was not there until the Russian engineer Sikorsky moved there.

        And the engineer Sikorsky is not a pioneer, before him, Louis Bleriot and the Wright brothers were quite
        1. EvgNik
          EvgNik 5 November 2015 08: 03
          17
          Quote: sa-ag
          were both Louis Bleriot and the Wright brothers

          And we had Alexander Mozhaysky. And if we talk about the discoverers - they must be placed before foreign ones.
          1. Nick
            Nick 5 November 2015 09: 54
            +6
            Quote: EvgNik
            Quote: sa-ag
            were both Louis Bleriot and the Wright brothers

            And we had Alexander Mozhaysky. And if we talk about the discoverers - they must be placed before foreign ones.

            And Zhukovsky - the father of Russian aviation
            1. nils
              nils 5 November 2015 10: 33
              24
              Quote from the article: "We live without a national idea. We have no ideology. There is no goal. And without a goal, it is not known which harbor the ship will sail to."

              That is what we must first talk about, and only then about Sikorsky and Mozhaisk.
        2. vladimir_krm
          vladimir_krm 5 November 2015 10: 41
          10
          It's about industry, not about invention. The Wright brothers had little to do with industry.
        3. Mister22408
          Mister22408 5 November 2015 11: 09
          -2
          And Comrade Archimedes lived in Greece - is it logical?
        4. Vladimir 1964
          Vladimir 1964 5 November 2015 17: 27
          0
          Quote: sa-ag
          And the engineer Sikorsky is not a pioneer, before him, Louis Bleriot and the Wright brothers were quite


          Sorry, Dear sa-ag, but Louis Bleriot and the Wright brothers created the first far from mass copies of aircraft.
          Somehow, colleague, your comparison can hardly be called tactful. hi
      3. V.ic
        V.ic 5 November 2015 07: 18
        +5
        Quote: Mahmut
        So, after all, the aviation industry in the USA was not there until the Russian engineer Sikorsky moved there.

        "Sikorsky = organizer of the USA aviation industry!" So you need to understand? Well, then the Wright brothers "into the furnace" ...
        1. vladimir_krm
          vladimir_krm 5 November 2015 10: 42
          0
          The Sikorsky firm is still alive. What did the Wright organize from the US aircraft industry? Yes, they invented gliders and planes. Yes, they did in small batches ...
          1. Andriuha077
            Andriuha077 5 November 2015 12: 39
            +2
            Samuel Pierpont Langley, Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution with 1887 until his death in 1906, conducted experiments with models of flying machines and made successful flights of an unguided aircraft with an engine in 1896 and 1903. The two tests of its full-size engine equipped Aerodrome in October and December 1903, however, ended in failure. However, the Smithsonians later proudly set up an “Aerodrome” in their museum as the first device heavier than air, “suitable” for a controlled flight with an engine. By pushing the Wright brothers to second place, they provoked decades-long enmity with Orville. WrightOm, whose brother received help from the Smithsonian Institution at the beginning of his work on flying machines.

            Glenn Curtiss or his assistant is raising a seriously modified Langley Airfield on Lake Keuk near Hammondport, NY, 17 September 1914.

            Curtiss flew the 10-km distance at a speed of 75 km / h, beating his pursuer, Louis Bleriot, and won the Gordon Bennett Cup. This allowed him to become the second, after Blerio, a pilot with a license in Europe (the Wright brothers became 4 and 5).

            After US involvement in the war in 1917, the US government entered into a large and lucrative contract with Curtiss to build aircraft for the army. Wright Aeronautical Corporation, the heir to the Wright Company, merged with Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor Company 5 July 1929, the new company received the name Curtiss-Wright company shortly before the death of Glenn Curtiss.
          2. tomket
            tomket 5 November 2015 14: 44
            0
            Quote: vladimir_krm
            Sikorsky firm is still alive

            Just like Boeing or Lockheed. What did you want to say to Sikorsky?
            1. vladimir_krm
              vladimir_krm 5 November 2015 17: 13
              0
              Repeat? Wright - inventors, even brilliant, but it was about industry. So understandable?
        2. Vladimir 1964
          Vladimir 1964 5 November 2015 17: 31
          0
          Quote: V.ic
          "Sikorsky = organizer of the USA aviation industry!" So you need to understand? Well, then the Wright brothers "into the furnace" ...

          If you follow your logic, Dear Victor, then the brothers are definitely in the furnace, because it is not possible to attribute them to the creators of industry. They were pioneer inventors and no more.

          Something like this will be more accurate, colleague. hi
      4. I am
        I am 5 November 2015 09: 08
        27
        And nothing that these calculators in terms of power were like some modern tablets ???? Only richer functionality? and not for fun, but for calculations? And nobody takes into account ergonomics and usability? or is miniaturization the main thing? calculator MK-71 - none of the imported ones available on the open sale (sitezen and other "engineering" ones) surpassed it in its characteristics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! And he is from the category of eternal - WORKS ONLY ON Light elements !!!! It has been working for more than 20 years and there are no problems. Modern calculators will last that long ?????
        1. Mahmut
          Mahmut 5 November 2015 09: 41
          -7
          But nothing that these power calculators were like some modern tablets ????

          In terms of power consumption, not less, but maybe more.

          As for the MK-71, it is really the only one of the engineering calculators working on light elements. Similar imports were simply not brought into the union. But he appeared only in 1987. The manufacturer - the mailbox Moscow. The first four-core processor appeared in the USSR in the defense industry back in the 70s. But the country then considered a slide rule. And television is a Soviet invention, but the world did not know worse than our TVs.
        2. Nick
          Nick 5 November 2015 09: 57
          +1
          Quote: I am
          And he is from the category of the eternal - WORKS ONLY ON Light elements !!!! 20 has been working for over odd years and there are no problems. Modern calculators will live so much ????

          In principle, they can survive. My city with 2003 works. While alive ...
        3. voffchik7691
          voffchik7691 8 November 2015 17: 23
          0
          I have MK-60 (MK-71 was for engineering calculations) also has been working on solar (then called) since 1988! The thickness of millimeters is 9! Here are the exact ones: 115x65x9. Is that the biggest calculator ?! Yes, less is simply inconvenient to use! My wife worked as an accountant - every year they bought new citizens, because they did not have enough for a year!
      5. Morrrow
        Morrrow 5 November 2015 10: 10
        11 th
        This is not true. The French built us both engine building and aircraft manufacturing.
      6. Eagle Owl1
        Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 11: 08
        +2
        Yes, there was no aviation industry in Russia in the 1st. There were workshops that gave out aircraft engines piece by piece - not on a military scale. Russia tried to buy planes and components abroad, but not very successfully.
        The only breakthrough in this area was the bombers of Ilya Muromets and Sikorsky. First-class cars for their time. But they could not establish a large production. And, in my opinion, in 1915, the Germans copied the shot down "Ilya Muromets" and the leadership in bomber aviation was lost.
        1. Morrrow
          Morrrow 5 November 2015 11: 18
          -4
          But what about the French "Gnome" and "Kalep", "Salmson" and "Russo-Balt"?
          1. Eagle Owl1
            Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 12: 26
            +2
            Quote: Morrrow
            But what about the French "Gnome" and "Kalep", "Salmson" and "Russo-Balt"?


            there is an excellent book "Aviation of the Great War" Rokhmistrov V.G. There are collected documents almost by day. I recommend.
        2. Morrrow
          Morrrow 5 November 2015 11: 30
          0
          In 1915, the situation changed for the better. The French repulsed the German offensive and resumed deliveries of engines and aircraft. The production of licensed aircraft engines in Russia also increased: in the first 15 months of the war, the Gnome and Kalep factories manufactured about 300 rotational engines. Later in Moscow, Salmson's engine plant began to operate. As a result, by November 1915, Russian plants were able to produce nearly 800 aircraft. Another 300 airplanes were delivered from abroad1. Source and details: http://www.airaces.ru/stati/otechestvennoe-samoljotostroenie-v-gody-pervojj-miro
          vojj-vojjny.html
          1. Eagle Owl1
            Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 12: 44
            0
            Quote: Morrrow
            In 1915, the situation changed for the better. The French repulsed the German offensive and resumed deliveries of engines and aircraft. The production of licensed aircraft engines in Russia also increased: in the first 15 months of the war, the Gnome and Kalep factories manufactured about 300 rotational engines.


            I don’t remember in numbers ... - I have been dealing with this issue for a long time. But here it is necessary to consider not only the figures for the production of motors. And the quality and capabilities of the motors? And the repair? What about the plane itself? - Aircraft science, after all. And here the Germans coolly overtook Russia, unfortunately.
            Please note that in the years 41-42 they were able to catch up with the quality only because great efforts were thrown into creating new aircraft, with the first-class organization of the process. Obviously, this was not the case in 1914-1916.
            1. Morrrow
              Morrrow 5 November 2015 13: 15
              0
              It is clear that not at the German level. The level of technological development in Germany could only be reached by France, but what was on the road wasn’t lying around. Then we generally have to go to England to play billiards to win the engine.
      7. starshina78
        starshina78 5 November 2015 11: 48
        +9
        That was, that was. But the fact that they do not want to engage in development now is another matter. How many meetings of the Government were there on the development of machine tools, instrument making, electronics, etc. , etc. ... And the cart as it was there, it is. There are a lot of examples. The plane fell on Sinai. Again they started talking about flying on old stuff, and they lost their civil aviation. Again, now there will be meetings with Himself, in the Government on the resumption of the construction of their own aircraft. They will talk, talk and that's it! After a certain time to whom it is necessary will come zaslantsy from "Airbus" and "Boeing" with diplomats stuffed with greenery and that's it, go ahead. So it is with these industries. Globalization! They will not allow us to restore machine-tool building, instrument-making, and so on, these are the zaslanets. And for now, ministers will sit in the Government who, apart from oil and gas, do not want to develop anything else. much easier - he sold a million barrels and cubic meters, calculated the proceeds, and that's it. and this is the same as it is necessary to raise old factories, finance science, educate new engineers and workers. No, they won't.
        1. Aleksander
          Aleksander 5 November 2015 13: 45
          10
          That is why V. Putin is yesterday. We need STALIN 2.0 - the restoration of the Gulag, where the RF Ministry of Finance, the Central Bank of the Russian Federation and the HSE as a whole and all liberals from the Government, a complete ban for ALL civil servants from the village head to the President of the Russian Federation and their spouses and relatives on ANY property in the enemy countries of NATO and the British off-shore, the execution of no alternative for a bribe of more than 50 rubles with the complete confiscation of all property to the budget, mass purges of the Government of the Russian Federation, Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation
          1. Vladimir 1964
            Vladimir 1964 5 November 2015 17: 36
            0
            Quote: Alexander
            That is why V. Putin is yesterday. We need STALIN 2.0 - the restoration of the Gulag, where the RF Ministry of Finance, the Central Bank of the Russian Federation and the HSE as a whole and all liberals from the Government, a complete ban for ALL civil servants from the village head to the President of the Russian Federation and their spouses and relatives on ANY property in the enemy countries of NATO and the British off-shore, the execution of no alternative for a bribe of more than 50 rubles with the complete confiscation of all property to the budget, mass purges of the Government of the Russian Federation, Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation


            I agree with everything, Dear Alexander, only the amount of the bribe "teenager" should be increased, otherwise there will be no place to bury the officials. There are more than 4.5 of them, of all ranks. wassat
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. voffchik7691
          voffchik7691 8 November 2015 17: 28
          0
          "The government will have ministers who, apart from oil and gas, do not want to develop anything else."
          I would like to fix it - if they They will pay this industry DESTROY them anyway just to increase the score!
      8. Wheel
        Wheel 5 November 2015 17: 20
        +6
        Quote: Mahmut
        And there was also the slogan "Our calculators are the largest calculators in the world"

        And then there are "very smart" people who enthusiastically repeat any nonsense without hesitation.
        Sorry.
        1. Mahmut
          Mahmut 6 November 2015 06: 38
          -2
          And then there are "very smart" people who enthusiastically repeat any nonsense without hesitation.
          Sorry.


          I'm sorry. Usually they say that when the arguments end, they begin to pass on to the person. Judging by your comment, your arguments ended before it started. It's a pity of course.
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 5 November 2015 07: 04
      +7
      Quote: Maxim Shilin
      Another reflections on the topic "Putinslil"

      No, it was not Putin who merged. The communists were merged. I will not name them by their last name, they will not give anything. Because the collapse of the USSR went much earlier, it will surprise many, but the collapse began earlier, from the time of Nikita Khrushchev. The collapse began in the souls of people. While the generation was alive. who made the Revolution, who worked on construction sites in the first five-year plans, while they were in power, the USSR still held out. But going abroad, trips abroad, showed that "damned capitalism" is not going to rot to the end, that people there live much better, since there is no endless queues, there is no pursuit of shortages. So materialism began to develop, speculation in foreign things, and this undermined the foundations of the USSR. And Gorbachev's coming to power finally finished off the USSR. And what we now have is the result of the stupid internal policy of our communists. country along one of the paths suggested by L. Beria, Kosygin, and a number of economically enlightened communist leaders, most likely we would have an economy like the Chinese one. Chinese economy all the best that were offered by the leaders of the USSR.
      1. Just BB
        Just BB 5 November 2015 07: 27
        23
        And I would stop using the word "communists" - for the main mass, the expression "members of Communist Party ".
        My dad was asked at some time: "Konstantinovich, why don't you join the party? We would promote you!" To which dad replied: "I will join if it will be harder to do than to join the society of hunters. Or do YOU ​​think that membership makes a person gifted in all matters?" So he remained a leading engineer until retirement.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 5 November 2015 07: 36
          -2
          Quote: Just BB
          And I would stop using the word "communists" - the expression "members of the party of communists" is suitable for the main mass.

          In some ways, I agree with you, in some ways. It was simply a division in those days: the Communists and everyone else. So I, like your dad, was everyone else, and therefore our career was cut off.
          1. Nina Czerny
            Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 04
            +8
            Do not blame everything on membership. Maybe its professionalism was simply not enough? For example, in the CPSU more than 40% were workers, i.e. people holding, at best, grassroots positions. And there was no division between the Communists and everyone else. There is nothing to invent and deceive those who did not live then. Here are the leading communists - and everyone else - that was it. At least since the late 1970s.
          2. voffchik7691
            voffchik7691 8 November 2015 17: 54
            0
            We had a master in the workshop, he always said: here I would be in the party, and in 5 years I would become the chief engineer! But he could not join the party - no one gave such a scum a recommendation. So if everyone did that, then they would not be there and the country would not fall apart!
            And more about the end of the 80s. Somehow we were gathered for a meeting to nominate a candidate for the Supreme Council of the UzSSR. Well, we offer one - a real man, a master of his craft, but the head of the shop is against "if he leaves the site will rise! Who will give the plan ?!" Second, the same result. As a result, the head suggested one (his brother is in the military registration and enlistment office, his wife is a doctor in the polyclinic - he was sick for half a month, then he was in the military registration and enlistment office), they say, the shop will not rise without him! Well, we thought "who will vote for him?" And agreed. So this "hard worker" was chosen! This I mean, in many respects are to blame: I had to think about whom to nominate!
        2. Nina Czerny
          Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 09: 58
          +4
          Membership in the party was not always necessary to obtain higher posts. Here, for the director of the institute of membership, it was usually necessary.
          1. Babr
            Babr 5 November 2015 11: 01
            +1
            Quote: Nina Cerny
            Membership in the party was not always necessary to obtain higher posts.

            Let me disagree with you.
            71 Year. Regiment of the OASNAZ. Set exclusively from the Komsomol environment. (Witness to this)
            Everything obeyed only this rule. It was impossible to get some key position without a membership card. Therefore, this is how the communists grind.
            I'm not talking about everyone. I'm talking about the top.
            By this rule, far from the best representatives of the state appeared in the upper echelons of power.
            1. Babr
              Babr 5 November 2015 11: 37
              +4
              And further. As far as I understood, Stalin was preparing to remove the party from managing the national economy. Perhaps it paid for it.
              1. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 5 November 2015 14: 14
                +2
                Quote: Babr
                And further. As far as I understood, Stalin was preparing to remove the party from managing the national economy. Perhaps it paid for it.
                Stalin was not going to remove anyone from anything, but declared the necessity of expanding the governing bodies of the party through the infusion of new cadres, and of strengthening the party's role through its greater mass character.
                Such dilution is the same rotation, with the goal of preventing the formation of an bronzed skeleton (oligarchy).

                As for "paid", then 73 years with the average life expectancy of a man in 53 years at 60 years ...
                1. Babr
                  Babr 5 November 2015 15: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Uncle Joe
                  and declared the need to expand the governing bodies of the party through the infusion of new cadres, and to strengthen the role of the party through its greater mass.

                  Maybe so. I’m not stubborn in my thoughts. In general, they hide the authorities about the last years of the Leader’s life, behind seven seals. And guessing on the coffee grounds is an ungrateful task.
                  1. Uncle Joe
                    Uncle Joe 5 November 2015 21: 26
                    +3
                    Babr
                    G.M. Malenkov on the podium: Comrades! We must all unanimously and unanimously ask Comrade Stalin, our leader and teacher, to continue to be the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee.
                    Supported this proposal and L.P. Beria.
                    Stalin on the podium: No applause is needed at the Plenum of the Central Committee. It is necessary to solve issues without emotions, in a businesslike way. And I ask you to release me from the duties of Secretary General of the CPSU Central Committee and Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR. I'm already old. I do not read papers. Choose another secretary for yourself.

                    http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t18/t18_262.htm
                    1. Babr
                      Babr 6 November 2015 00: 18
                      +1
                      Here ..
                      "And what is the value of Comrade Molotov's proposal to transfer Crimea to the Jews?"
                      But you are not a fan of conspiracy theories and you will not follow this path.
                      And this question runs through the red line from 17 to the present day.
                      And from this position I understand why the Crimea without a single shot fell into the hands of Russia, and the Donbass bombed.
                      1. Uncle Joe
                        Uncle Joe 6 November 2015 01: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Babr
                        But you are not a fan of conspiracy theories
                        So there is no conspiracy theories there.

                        Molotov and Mikoyan are a typical example of those who are bronzed, about which Stalin spoke in the mid-20s.

                        We want to have a state apparatus as a means of serving the masses, and some people in this state apparatus want to turn it into a feeding article. That is why the device as a whole is false.
                        t. 5 p. 207

                        It was Stalin who spoke about the need to dilute such bronzed people - and due to what they would start typing the machine (whether at the expense of the Zionists, or at the expense of Russian nationalists that were no different from the Zionists), Stalin was very violet.

                        And this question goes through the red line from 17 to the present day.
                        Does the name Boris Aleksandrovich Shteifon mean nothing? Is Israel Solomonovich Beskin?

                        And from this position I understand why the Crimea without a single shot fell into the hands of Russia, and the Donbass bombed.
                        Crimea crossed because it was 20 times cheaper to run the South Stream pipeline there than bypassing the Crimea, because in violation of all international treaties the MTR of the Russian Federation surfaced, because the interested parties were ready to enter into an open confrontation with the Ukrainian Armed Forces through the Armed Forces , and because the APU could not compete with the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation either a year ago or 20 years ago.

                        And the Donbass is being bombed because interested parties had to pull off Ukrainian frostbitten statesmen from the Crimea, because it was never supposed to run a pipe there, because the MTR of the Russian Federation did not appear there, and unlike the Crimea, interested parties were never going to enter Donbas in an open confrontation with the Armed Forces and the state of Ukraine.
          2. Amurets
            Amurets 6 November 2015 01: 15
            +1
            Quote: Nina Czerny
            Membership in the party was not always necessary to obtain higher posts. Here, for the director of the institute of membership, it was usually necessary.

            What are you? These 40% sat in meetings and simply raised their hands, voted against, was left without a bonus, allowances and other benefits. And it was the workers who first ran out of the party. I said to the party organizer that you will join the party and you will go to the top post. So there’s nothing for you cheat, not me.
      2. Babr
        Babr 5 November 2015 07: 32
        0
        Investigating the events of bygone days, you never cease to be surprised and understand "Why in the USSR we lived poorly." And the answer to this question is on the surface.
        After the cancellation of the golden dollar security, which turned it into an empty piece of paper, the party nomenclature begins to increase hydrocarbon exports to the west for cut paper with portraits of American presidents.
        The scale of export increased and increased, depleting the economy of the USSR so much that they seriously started talking about introducing austerity of everything that is possible, since the goods, products and raw materials produced in the USSR were already not enough for delivery to the West.
        To save energy, for example, which was also exported, the clock began to be translated. Raw materials and energy resources were cleaned up completely from the national economy of the USSR and handed over to the west.
        Since 1985 a hitherto unprecedented export boom has begun - they exported everything cleanly: Supplies of fabrics abroad grew more than 3 times. Cotton - almost 4 times. Flaxseed - 7 times.
        http://xn--e1ajp.com.ua/9-glavnyj-razdel/2387-kto-spjor-moj-sssr-2.html
      3. Skif83
        Skif83 5 November 2015 09: 15
        16
        In general, I agree with everything except the role of GDP.
        He had a hand in the current state of industry and the economy. Whoever says that he inherited the Eltsin’s legacy is, to put it mildly, misleading. And the ministers of the twitter prime minister, are they also from Eltsin’s? Long gone.
        Yes, they are "relatives", but this is Putin's retinue. And they (for now) finish off what has not yet been finished off.
        And why are they raising the army, because the Berderbeg club made it clear to them that they would never enter the "big league".
        This means that everything that is acquired by "backbreaking" work can be taken away by the stronger. In short, spiders in the bank.

        Therefore, the phrase:
        - What can I say here. There is no instrument making industry. Machine tool no. There is no electrical engineering. Electron industry is not. There is no special connection. There is no radio industry. These were - the industry. And now they are not.
        - this is the quintessence of Eltsin and present timelessness ...
        1. nils
          nils 5 November 2015 10: 28
          +7
          Quote: Skif83
          GDP had a hand in the current state of industry and the economy.


          The official statistics of the third quarter of 2015. The recession of the Russian economy in July, August and September, according to the Ministry of Economic Development, amounted to 4,3% in annual terms.
          Of the 188 countries of the world for which economic statistics are conducted, Russia is in the 183-th place in terms of GDP dynamics this year. A deeper economic downturn than in Russia is observed today in five territories: Vanuatu (–4,5%), Ukraine (–5,5%), Venezuela (–7%), Sierra Leone (–12,8%) and Equatorial Guinea (–15,4% )

          According to Rosstat in Russia, over the three quarters of 2015, prices on average jumped by 10,4%. In terms of price growth, Russia turned out to be almost a winner, only Ukraine having passed ahead.
          In the relatively prosperous European Union, price increases since the beginning of the year amounted to 0,2%.
          In Kazakhstan, inflation over three quarters amounted to 2,9%. In Brazil - 7,6%, in Turkey - 6,2%. The closest neighbor to us in terms of financial instability is Belarus with inflation of 9,2%.
          1. voffchik7691
            voffchik7691 8 November 2015 18: 09
            0
            GLORY to the economic bloc of government! What would their accounts in the west be blocked!
      4. Nina Czerny
        Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 09: 56
        +2
        "... we would have a Chinese economy." The Chinese economy now is the economy of the USSR in the 1950s, taking into account the emergence of modern industries in industry. China's economy is lower in efficiency than even the modern Russian one. If you divide their indicators by their population, you will see that the Chinese economy is ineffective and not progressive. So far, everything is taken at the expense of a population of 1,4 billion people. And no breakthrough technologies while the Chinese are not demonstrating - everything is just copying other people's achievements or using them under licenses. China is following the same dead-end path as the Russian Federation after 1991.
      5. Nick
        Nick 5 November 2015 10: 08
        +6
        Quote: Amurets
        No, Putin leaked. Communists leaked

        I can not agree. By the middle of the 80, there were almost no Communists in the CPSU. The vast majority were, uh - MEMBERS of the party. And what do you want from the members then ... er .. request
        Quote: Amurets
        Take the country along one of the paths that L. Beria, Kosygin, and a number of economically enlightened Communist leaders suggested, we would most likely have an economy like the Chinese one.

        I.V. Stalin, perhaps, should be put at the head of the list. Beria and Kosygin came later.
      6. Eagle Owl1
        Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 11: 18
        -3
        don't waste your precious time on fools, buddy. Maxim Shilin, apparently, dEbil - as we once said in the yard
      7. Aleksander
        Aleksander 5 November 2015 13: 49
        11
        And yet - and WHAT did Putin do in his 15 years of Russian rule? Built three pipes for pumping raw materials to the EU and China?

        Personally, I am infuriated by the idiotic advertisement on federal TV - "the power of Siberia" in the pipe.

        What is the whole power of Siberia and the Russian Federation in the pipe?
      8. The comment was deleted.
      9. Uncle Joe
        Uncle Joe 5 November 2015 14: 04
        +4
        Quote: Amurets
        No, Putin leaked. Communists leaked
        I even know one such communist who still keeps a party card just in case of fire (and this despite the fact that during the buchi the GKChP sided with Sobchak, who is in opposition to the GKChP) smile
      10. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 8 November 2015 17: 49
        0
        I agree with almost everything, but "people live there much better, since there are no endless queues, there is no pursuit of shortages." But you forgot to add that apart from "there was no shortage and endless queues", but there was an UNEMPLOYMENT! Now there are no queues, but what about plastic sausages and sausages, powdered milk on the shelves? Watch French films from the 70s and 80s. Life there is also not very impressive! And there was freedom of speech (remember the movie "Toy" in '75!) I will not deny that they lived better than us in some way, but again thanks to us! Because their rich were afraid of losing everything, and therefore made concessions! And here Prokhorov insolently pushed the 12-hour or 6-day 60-hour work week! Afraid of nothing!
    3. EvgNik
      EvgNik 5 November 2015 07: 58
      34
      Quote: Maxim Shilin
      Another reflections on the topic "Putinslil"

      Absolute misunderstanding of the article (interview). Apparently only the end of the article has been read. In the USSR, there was self-sufficiency in everything necessary. All that was needed was time for further development (but it was not given, at first by a confusion with the change of secretaries general, then by "perestroika", with the help of which Gorbaty merged the USSR into the West). My first computer, for example, was a Soviet-made "Partner". Then the Spectrum appeared. Today's youth do not understand what it means to live in an independent country. Flushing the years of fathers and grandfathers down the toilet is easier than learning to think.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 5 November 2015 08: 23
        14
        Quote: EvgNik
        It’s easier to lower the years lived by fathers and grandfathers into the toilet than to learn to think.

        It’s a very accurate expression, Yevgeny Nikolaevich. Nobody wants to think. As long as there is a buy-sell ideology, there will not be any movement forward. Is it because Russia is losing its scientific personnel because nobody needs them here?
      2. EvgNik
        EvgNik 5 November 2015 08: 34
        10
        I will add. Type in a search engine (just not Google - it, I think, will give an error 404), "Personal computers of the USSR". Very interesting and informative information.
        1. Babr
          Babr 5 November 2015 09: 18
          +6
          Well, personal ones may be a little behind (the witness himself).
          In stationary walked in the foot. And there was a domestic base.
          And the staff went (or led us) along the path of copying and creating foreign analogues. And it was a dead end.
          1. dali
            dali 5 November 2015 10: 08
            +3
            Quote: Babr
            Well, in personal maybe a little behind (the witness himself). In stationary they kept up. Moreover, there was a domestic base. And the staffers went (or led us) along the path of copying and creating foreign analogues. And it was a dead end
            Actually, we went (or rather, I led, I think, the so-called paid 5-column) even before the staff - if you are aware, you should know that the computers of the EC computer system (starting from 1020 and almost 1065 each) are bought from mattresses project IBM360, although its own was better !!!

            Because the collapse began under Khrushchov, the ruling elite, so to speak, more and more separated from the people, and the result was Gorbachev's perestroika, when the New Communists decided to become the new lords ...
            1. Babr
              Babr 5 November 2015 10: 36
              +3
              Totally agree with you.
              This immediately comes to mind.

              “You are not talking about the main thing, about your leading role in the world. In 1939, you Russians were smart, and we Japanese were fools. In 1949, you became even smarter, and we were fools so far. And in 1955 we got smarter, and you turned into five-year-olds.

              Our entire economic system is almost completely copied from yours, with the only difference being that we have capitalism, private producers, and we have never achieved more than 15% growth, while you, with public ownership of the means of production, reached 30% or more. All of our firms have your slogans of the Stalin era. ”
              Japanese billionaire Herosi Terawama:
            2. summer
              summer 5 November 2015 12: 50
              -1
              Nothing and never
              the IBM360 project bought from mattresses

              seamless computers -
              if you are aware, you should know

              the story is well known among specialists - how and through whom they pulled ..
              We were 5-10 years behind in this matter. While you bring, disassemble, translate into Russian, manufacture everything, starting from construction materials, from inch to metric measurements, manufacturing ED according to GOSTs .. so on.
              And to build factories from scratch, and technological equipment, and ... IS 155 from TI 74xx ..
              There is a whole train of problems.
              This is a repetition of the production of Tu-4 from B-29.
              Following your logic, Tupolev is from the "fifth column"?
              And at the head of the "fifth column" L.P. Beria, before whom I.V.
              Right?
              Somewhere were ahead (where - I will not say wink)
              The question of where to go was resolved collectively and fairly openly (within the framework of admission to the GT laughing ).
              1. dali
                dali 5 November 2015 17: 50
                +2
                Quote: summer
                the story is well known among experts - how and through whom they pulled .. We were 5-10 years behind in this matter. Until you bring it, disassemble it, translate it into Russian, you will make everything, starting with construction materials, from inch to metric dimensions, making ED according to GOSTs .. etc. And build factories from scratch, and technological equipment, and ... IS 155 from TI 74xx. There is a whole set of railway problems. This is a repetition of the way of making Tu-4 from B-29. Following your logic, Tupolev is from the "fifth column"? And at the head of the "fifth column" L.P. Beria, in front of whom I.V. SAM is right? Somewhere were ahead (where - I won't say) The question of where to go was decided collegially and quite openly (within the framework of admission to the GT).
                You don’t have to juggle ... when on airplanes ... we studied, and then they did it anyway ... and when it was already (remember at least BESM-6), but they took someone else's !!!

                And what about the elemental base, and here it wasn’t what you think ... that’s the witness personally (although the event is later, but still in the USSR)
                1. summer
                  summer 5 November 2015 18: 38
                  0
                  I do not think and suppose - I KNOW.
                  Ask "havchiks", when were the series of domestic ICs 155, 131, 500, 561 and so on launched into mass production? And when did the foe have "analogs"? Why did "analogs" of the foe appear 5-10 years earlier than ours, almost without exception?
                  Why with the "original" development, i.e. "from scratch", did our IS have the same pinout as the enemy? The 155th episode from birth had the maiden name Texas Ins., And the 561st - RCA?
                  For your information, the poet Yevtushenko, now famous in certain circles, had a "maiden" surname Gangnus. But I, as I searched, could not find its American "analogue". This is really a product of a domestic manufacturer. laughing
                  You do not throw hats just for your own pleasure and entertainment of the public, but take an interest in the history of the issue closely.
                  I wish you success in seeking the truth.
                  If she interests you. hi
                  1. summer
                    summer 5 November 2015 19: 18
                    -2
                    Incidentally .. If you are interested in the question - "how the copies of the IP were made", google "layer-by-layer microsections". In the USSR, more than a dozen people became KTN and DTN on this topic. This problem in complexity, importance and all kinds of costs is comparable to the creation of nuclear weapons.
                    1. Oldman
                      Oldman 5 November 2015 21: 57
                      +1
                      "how they made copies of the IP", google "layer-by-layer microsections"
                      ------------------------------
                      No one dealt with layer-by-layer microsections - this is stupid, because the depths of the layers for specific series were well known, and were standard for the technology used. The same applies to the thicknesses of oxides and aluminum.
                  2. Oldman
                    Oldman 5 November 2015 21: 46
                    +6
                    When were the 155th and 131st (133rd) serials launched? If I am not mistaken, it happened in 1969. At the beginning of 1971, I was accepted as a microcircuit designer at the SKTB of the Mion (Integral) plant in Minsk. So, the mentioned series were already in full swing in the series, both at this plant and at the plant. Dzerzhinsky. I happened to develop microcircuits of these series. The lag behind the pindos was no more than 2 years. You see how easy it is to run into a "piano in the bushes".
                    "How did you make analogs"? Some, the most primitive microcircuits, elementary logic - were mercilessly tore from analogs, and this business (topology) was done by technicians, girls. Qualified development engineers worked on serious microcircuits, and, for a number of objective (I can tell about them separately) reasons, it was unproductive to rip off complex circuits, it was easier to design by ourselves.
                    I advise you not to carry nonsense here about the lag in 5-10 years, this was not. You are simply not in the subject.
                    1. dali
                      dali 5 November 2015 22: 16
                      +1
                      I completely agree ....

                      Yes, everything wasn’t okay with household appliances, but it’s temporary ... because they would start to switch to a civilian anyway - they couldn’t immediately, but we didn’t rob the whole world under control, therefore it was harder ...

                      Well ... he personally held in his hands a ceramic case with 212 findings back in 1989 (that's interesting, but Intel had something like that) ... so you’re sitting in the states for a summer and you’re no longer in Russia is waiting
                    2. summer
                      summer 6 November 2015 00: 43
                      0
                      You, dear, last name V.V. Does Przhiyalkovsky say anything?
                      Quote from Viktor Vladimirovich -
                      [quote] [... summarizes the characteristics of first-line machines on an EU computer, compatible with IBM-360. They do not coincide with the IBM-360 models in terms of basic performance characteristics and, of course, in terms of their specific logical structure. All of them are protected by numerous copyright certificates and are patented (exception - logic-2 microcircuit) / quote]
                      http://www.computer-museum.ru/histussr/es_hist.htm
                      “Logic-2” is your notorious Minsk 155th series.
                      Although she is rather Fryazino.

                      The lag was on the EU computer for 7 years at the beginning - 1964 against 1971. Further - more. For SM computers specifically for VAX-11 it’s just 11 years old .. 1977 against 1988
                      1. voffchik7691
                        voffchik7691 8 November 2015 18: 57
                        0
                        Dear "summer", what is your flag changing with every comment? Confusing traces ?!
                    3. The comment was deleted.
                    4. voffchik7691
                      voffchik7691 8 November 2015 18: 54
                      0
                      In 1985 he became a subscriber of the magazine "Foreign Military Review" and there was a reprint either from "Janes" or some other (it was a long time ago!) Where it was stated in all seriousness that you almost made a discovery: they began to fill the boards with varnish, and they work much longer without failures. So I worked at a factory where since 1976 (we were transferred from another factory, because they began to make another product, a newer one) all the boards were varnished. And we made rangefinders and stabilizers for the T-62, and the T-62 was not the last word in tank building even at that time!
                      So we weren't really stupid, and there were many places where we "made" them!
                2. summer
                  summer 5 November 2015 18: 38
                  -1
                  As for the computers of the BESM, MESM, Ural, Minsk, etc. series, the clatter of lost opportunities can be left to the “alternative engineers”.
                  From serial computers of general use, and not special computers, BTsVM, BIUS and so on. Only one domestic development, Elbrus, which is now embodied in the form of VLSI, has successfully survived to our times. And then, at a certain stage, its shoulder is “disinterested”, i.e. for nothing bully set up the omnipresent pin dos. But, really, this is our development. Patriotic ..
                  If you are interested in this, then for a certain time, the notorious S.N. Khrushchev, the son of no less notorious S.N. Khrushchev. fellow
                  1. Oldman
                    Oldman 5 November 2015 22: 02
                    0
                    No need to distribute this primitive here. If you have specific questions about Soviet microcircuits, I ask questions.
                    1. summer
                      summer 6 November 2015 00: 10
                      0
                      I could refer to Tarabrin’s handbook, but since you offered your services, didn’t you personally develop the topology of K580IK80 and the entire K580 series?
                      Didn't you personally come up with the idea to use the topology and technology of Mostek when "designing" the K565RU5?
                      This is so, for starters ..
                      1. summer
                        summer 6 November 2015 00: 52
                        0
                        Should I expect your answer or "well, him in fig"?
                        Oil painting is the last visit of the Goldfish to the old man.
                      2. Oldman
                        Oldman 6 November 2015 09: 03
                        0
                        Listen, buddy, don't make yourself a tough pepper. Why should I discuss with you topics in which you are a layman?
                        The integral did not deal with the 580 series (God forbid, n-MOSFET, Kiev ?, so many years have passed), our guys (I worked on a different topic) developed the 588th series of IPCs (low threshold, CMOS, lead developer - Vitya Schiller) .
                      3. summer
                        summer 6 November 2015 10: 39
                        -2
                        I will answer you in parts.
                        “Cool pepper” you began to build from yourself - Yesterday, 21:46
                        At the beginning of 1971, I was accepted as a microcircuit designer at the SKTB of the Mion (Integral) plant in Minsk ... I advise you not to carry on nonsense here about a 5-10 year lag, this was not the case.

                        I gave you examples of the backlog in the field of computer construction at 7 and 11 years old. You were silent. I quoted the words of Przhiyalkovsky V.V. about "Panty dirty" 155th series. You have not responded. Instead, you pulled Integral from the blow, which you yourself brought into the game. From the very beginning of the discussion of the issue, I spoke about the p-conductor industry of the entire USSR, and not the Minsk “appendix”.
                        I asked a question about specific IP models (as you requested), and in response I heard -
                        “I worked on a different topic”, we developed other series. And “Vitya Schiller is brainy” .. Why did you drag him into it? What proves your answer? What is the topology of American IP did not tear?
                        Your answer, my dear, does not prove absolutely NOTHING. If you, as I expected, did not answer on the merits, then I can safely assume that the two of us are not me.
                        No need to puff out your cheeks and make a formidable look - you, dear, were blown away like a balloon.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                      5. summer
                        summer 6 November 2015 10: 45
                        -1
                        If you want to know (if you it want, and not ponte ponte)
                        In 1967, NIIME began developing a series of digital microcircuits (series 133) based on transistor-transistor logic, the parametric range of which covered a wide range of speed and power consumption (ROC "Logica-2"). Integrated circuit parameters - operating frequency 5-10 MHz, dissipation power no more than 22 mW per valve. Development was completed in September 1.

                        http://www.155la3.ru/k133.htm

                        Patented by James Buie of Pacific Semiconductor in 1961, TTL (Transistor Transistor Logic) emerged as the most popular logic configuration of the next two decades. Unaware of Buie's work but inspired by an "all transistor" logic circuit described by Ruegg and Beeson of Fairchild, Thomas Longo led the design of the first TTL family, Sylvania Universal High-level Logic (SUHL) in 1963. Encouraged by SUHL's in winning a high-profile Hughes military design (the Phoenix missile), TI introduced the competing SN5400 Series TTL family the following year. The company announced the SN7400 Series in low cost plastic packages for industrial customers in 1966 and quickly gained a greater than 50% share of the logic market.

                        http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1963-TTL.html
                        Translated into universal - the TTL panent in 1961, the release of Sylvania IP itself in 1963, the release of TI IP SN54XX in 1964.
                        Using the subtraction method, determine the lag yourself.
                        Further, as the dependence on the expectations of the "foe's" actions grew, the gap remained on average - about 5 years. By the end of the USSR, it increased for quite understandable reasons.
                      6. The comment was deleted.
                      7. summer
                        summer 6 November 2015 10: 48
                        0
                        For the future - it is not necessary to enter into a discussion with such ambition, trying to humiliate the interlocutor without any reason.
                        With all of the above, I am proud of the achievements of Soviet industry in general, and its electronic components, in particular.
                        Your participation in such an important matter is respected.
                        It is only sad that people in old age become touchy like children.
                        I have followed the links in your profile - you have a hobby, a history of aeronautics, and I am happy for you.
                        I wish you health and success.
                      8. The comment was deleted.
                      9. summer
                        summer 6 November 2015 13: 48
                        0
                        I’ll clarify. I talked about general-purpose microcircuitry, not specialized LSIs.
                        Where it would simply be stupid to catch up if there are no bonuses in the form of "shareware", ie seamless software was not foreseen.
                        Undoubtedly, the enterprises of the MEP, MRP and other, "non-nine" ministries independently developed, and actively, many IS series.
                        Which, however, did not eliminate the need for borrowing in those areas where it was necessary. And it was precisely the digital technique of the quizzical application - for building computers.
                        No need to "build grievances" out of the blue. No country in the world began its history with the invention of "its own" wheel. But the Prometheus was enough for everyone in abundance.
                        I found the story of the creation of domestic microelectronics on the network - Boris Malashevich. "50 years of domestic microelectronics. Brief foundations and history of development".
                        I have not read it yet, but I will read it with interest.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. dali
            dali 5 November 2015 22: 20
            +1
            Quote: summer
            If you are interested in this, then for a certain time, the notorious S.N. Khrushchev, the son of no less notorious S.N. Khrushchev.

            Well, you haven’t discovered the secret here ... the fact that Khrushchev went to a real corruption in the USSR elite does not even need to be proved.

            By the way, on the topic of BT, there were already enough publications on VO - look for something you might find smart, and not only work on mattresses ...
            1. summer
              summer 5 November 2015 22: 39
              -2
              Who told you that I work for mattresses?
              I indicated in the profile that I am an agent of the SBU (under the guise of pin dos) laughing
              We have people walking along the streets (I don’t know how you are) with wounded flags on clothes .. But nothing follows from this yet.
              But your profile is anonymous. Rather, it is you who work for ... (I will not say, otherwise you will be offended). I, a sinful deed, was afraid - maybe they would consider me a barefoot for a "havchik"? Either the tramps will not understand the normal "human language". tongue
              Therefore, I clarify -
              HAVETS, HAVCHIK - specialist. In other words, the one who "grabbed" the dog in his business.
              URL - http://odesskiy.com/odesskiy-dialekt/h-slovar.html
              I will not search for publications on BT in VO, for it is stupid.
              I can sell cheaply a bunch of reference books on element base, circuitry, computer architecture, programming languages, and much more.
              Any questions?
              1. dali
                dali 5 November 2015 23: 54
                0
                Quote: summer
                But your profile is anonymous. Rather, it’s you working for ... (I won’t say, otherwise I’ll be offended). I, a sinful thing,
                Why is it anonymous - didn’t they see the Russian flag? Color blind?
              2. summer
                summer 6 November 2015 00: 27
                -1
                I did not understand your irony? You did not indicate your place of residence? Not indicated. Do you think that this is the correct address - not a house or a street, your address is the Soviet Union.
                Let it be easier for you.
                Color blind, do you think this is a flag specialist?
                This is a typical flag player!
                I noticed a post with IP - a millipede. But you are so prolific in your writings that I do not have time to ask the question that interests me.
                And he is like that - what was the name in the distant 1989 of a millipede with 212 legs?
                I can say that I saw a chip a year earlier with 213 legs and two arms ..
                These are just words. After all, did nothing stop you from saying her name right away?
                Why intrigue?
                Or is the name of this IP so secret?
                There was one thing ... they worked on telemetry - American equipment could do it in 30min, and the Soviet Union in 1min (but the link was forgotten, because the difference was 60zzzz !!!) - do not want to remember what happened?

                This passage of yours reminds me of a fisherman’s story with his hands tied.
                I have a joke about a crank with wooden eyes for this case. If you do not know, I will tell you on occasion. But you and your telemetry have almost completely unraveled him. laughing
                Especially it gives you the presence of a set of enemy equipment for telemetry.
                For a long time I did not listen to such successful fishermen!
                Did they give it to you, or did you buy it from them? Or stolen? Admit it boldly, no one eavesdrops on us. laughing
              3. dali
                dali 6 November 2015 07: 24
                +1
                Quote: summer
                This passage of yours reminds me of a fisherman’s story with his hands tied.
                I have a joke about a crank with wooden eyes for this case. If you do not know, I will tell you on occasion. But you and your telemetry have almost completely unraveled him.
                Especially it gives you the presence of a set of enemy equipment for telemetry.
                For a long time I did not listen to such successful fishermen!
                Did they give it to you, or did you buy it from them? Or stolen? Admit it boldly, no one eavesdrops on us.
                Actually, it’s a well-known fact ... and you don’t taste it ... ёёёёёёёёёёёёёёё ... belay belay belay

                And ... he drank for sure:
                During the Soviet-American space flight Soyuz-Apollo, the Soviet side, using BESM-6, received processed telemetry information results per minute - half an hour (!!!) earlier than the American side.
              4. dali
                dali 6 November 2015 11: 20
                0
                Eh ... all the same, only 30 times faster, but I thought 60 ... well, okay, 30 times too good laughing
              5. The comment was deleted.
              6. summer
                summer 6 November 2015 11: 43
                0
                ... dawned for sure:
                During the Soviet-American space flight Soyuz-Apollon, the Soviet side using BESM-6 received processed telemetry information in a minute - half an hour (!!!) earlier than the American side.

                I did not remember this, I did not take part. I googled "this phrase."
                There are 3 references to it. In one single canonical form, letter by letter.
                My question is - what exactly did you remember? What did you take part in the "races" with the Americans? Or what did you read about it somewhere?
                It seems to me that the second is true. If so, the credibility of your thoughts is lost a little more than completely.
                Actually, it’s a well-known fact ... and you don’t taste it ... ёёёёёёёёёёёёёёё.

                Grandiose - the only phrase anonymous without reference to witnesses, repeated in a single form "copy-paste".
                And this is a "well-known" fact!
                As said just “famous heat engineer and fighter "O.-S.-BM. Bender Bay -
                “Who is Studebaker? Is this a relative, dad is your Studebaker? Connoisseurs! It’s necessary to kill such experts. ”
                By the way, how's it going with the 212-foot chip? You, dear, wanted to say something on this topic?
                Well? Nobody bothers you. Or..?
                We will answer the truth to our children - they care; Amazing - nearby, but it is forbidden

                You are a well-known "expert" .. hi
              7. dali
                dali 6 November 2015 12: 01
                0
                Quote: summer
                By the way, how's it going with the 212-foot chip? You, dear, wanted to say something on this topic? Well? Nobody bothers you. Or..?
                The fact of the matter is that in the 89s the 90s came and no one needed any 212 legs, no ... countries, no people ... or you don’t know about that either ?! belay
              8. summer
                summer 6 November 2015 12: 09
                -1
                If it was a microcircuit without a name, only one soet comes to mind - "You need to eat!"
              9. dali
                dali 6 November 2015 12: 22
                0
                Quote: summer
                If it was a microcircuit without a name, only one soet comes to mind - "You need to eat!"
                If you have not seen, this does not mean that there was ...

                I don’t think you either, since I didn’t see you ... and I only hear sounds coming out of my mouth, the troll sprinkling with saliva ...
              10. voffchik7691
                voffchik7691 8 November 2015 19: 25
                0
                I saw with my own eyes a VCR, in my opinion VM-20. None of the microcircuits had markings. It was labeled "experienced". They could not repair it for a long time until one guy sat down and analyzed the pinout and other circuits. After that, the repair was a matter of minutes. It is quite possible that the notorious 212-foot microcircuit was, but they did not have time to call it - the restructuring happened!
          3. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. dali
          dali 6 November 2015 11: 53
          0
          At the expense of remembered or not ... remembered, it was such a fact, understand this in any way? laughing Or do you think that since I did not participate in this, then this was not ?! So I have never been in mattress, so this does not mean that there is no USA ... laughing

          Yes, in fact, there is something to argue, and only know how to "spit" ... you are a mattress ...

          Quote: summer
          You are a well-known "expert" ..
          How do you still want to bite, but more painfully ... do not break your teeth laughing
        4. summer
          summer 6 November 2015 12: 03
          -1
          I think, my dear fellow, that in the well-known joke about "wooden eyes" it was about you.
          I do not bite such a "liquid" - disgusting.
          Farewell.
        5. dali
          dali 6 November 2015 12: 18
          0
          Quote: summer
          I think, my dear, that in the well-known anecdote about "wooden eyes" it was about you. I don't bite such "liquid" - disgusting. Goodbye.
          On their own people are not judged ... laughing laughing laughing

          Quote: summer
          ...Farewell.
          Well, if you please, you’ve already practiced it, it stinks all over the district ...
        6. dali
          dali 6 November 2015 12: 18
          0
          Quote: summer
          I think, my dear, that in the well-known anecdote about "wooden eyes" it was about you. I don't bite such "liquid" - disgusting. Goodbye.
          On their own people are not judged ... laughing laughing laughing

          Quote: summer
          ...Farewell.
          Well, if you please, you’ve already practiced it, it stinks all over the district ...
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. dali
    dali 5 November 2015 23: 57
    +1
    Quote: summer
    I, as a sinful thing, was afraid - maybe they would consider me a barefoot for a "havchik"? Either the tramps will not understand the normal "human language".
    Are you like an elite ?! belay laughing
    Come on, you elite where the thread is in another place - and here formans can be called barefoot only full udotas (well, you understand, tolerance, you can’t) ...
  3. dali
    dali 6 November 2015 00: 00
    0
    By the way, a post with 212 conclusions was not noticed ... or just to insult so much ?! belay
  4. summer
    summer 6 November 2015 01: 13
    0
    First off, I was joking. Successfully or not, this is another question. But you obviously lack a sense of humor.
    Secondly, "strangers don't go here"?
    Can only "veterans of the movement" spit and blow their nose here? Taking part in the discussions, I am already a forum user. You will not write me a membership card, if that. I've already read here "flattering words" addressed to strangers. To my shame, some of the words I first heard here. I compared myself with a barefoot, but you yourself with udot - no. With a complete udot. And in vain.
    Third, you are very loose in your interpretation of the word "tolerance". The term "political correctness" is more suitable here. Pin-dos-sky, if that.
    And further -
    or just to insult so much ?!

    Offended? I AM? You? When?
    Your imagination has run wild.
    "Do not eat raw tomatoes at night, so as not to harm the stomach."
  5. dali
    dali 6 November 2015 11: 40
    0
    Quote: summer
    First off, I was joking. Successfully or not, this is another question. But you obviously lack a sense of humor.
    This is when they hinted that everyone except you is barefoot or something? A weak excuse however ...

    Quote: summer
    Insulted? I? You? When? Your imagination ran wild. "Do not eat raw tomatoes at night, so as not to harm the stomach."
    What are you, I don’t have any imagination and jokes at all ... I don’t understand at all ... laughing And at the expense of a tomato ... and you take milk with milk and everything will be all right ... or you can’t even have milk?
  6. summer
    summer 6 November 2015 11: 58
    +1
    In general, I apologized for the unsuccessful joke.
    And you, my dear, continue to climb with a drill and throw on the fan "line". And without you I realized that with a sense of humor you have a "case of seams."
    Answer me on the essence of the question about the source of your "deep knowledge".
  7. summer
    summer 6 November 2015 11: 58
    0
    In general, I apologized for the unsuccessful joke.
    And you, my dear, continue to climb with a drill and throw on the fan "line". And without you I realized that with a sense of humor you have a "case of seams."
    Answer me on the essence of the question about the source of your "deep knowledge".
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. dali
    dali 6 November 2015 12: 31
    0
    Quote: summer
    I, in general, apologized for the unsuccessful joke. And you, my dear, continue to climb with a drill and throw on the fan "line". I realized without you that with a sense of humor you have a "case of seams." about the source of your "deep knowledge".

    He actually apologized ... laughing laughing laughing
    But I actually answered ... laughing laughing laughing
  10. The comment was deleted.
  • dali
    dali 5 November 2015 22: 26
    +1
    Quote: summer
    As for the computers of the BESM, MESM, Ural, Minsk, etc. series, the clatter of lost opportunities can be left to the “alternative engineers”. ...


    There was one thing ... they worked on telemetry - American equipment could do it in 30min, and the Soviet Union in 1min (but the link was forgotten, because the difference was 60zzzz !!!) - do not want to remember what happened? laughing laughing laughing
  • Amurets
    Amurets 5 November 2015 09: 19
    +1
    I don’t have Google for a long time, after I lost, with this help, very valuable information. I use Windows only because my provider works under Linux, but it only has Windows modems.
  • Nina Czerny
    Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 11
    +2
    I want to add that there is a lot of evidence about robotics, moreover, in the houses of pioneers and other children's clubs. There is a photo of 1971 where a group of robots crosses the street.
  • voffchik7691
    voffchik7691 8 November 2015 18: 27
    0
    No, it gives out Wikipedia and a lot of pictures
  • Shurale
    Shurale 5 November 2015 08: 45
    11
    it is strange that they did not write that we still have no aviation and space industry)))

    It has already been officially announced that we can’t even just repeat Buran, what space industry are you talking about? The fact that now is a pale shadow of what was ...
    1. Nina Czerny
      Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 12
      +2
      Moreover, which is characteristic, as they say, all documentation on the Buran was destroyed or disappeared without a trace.
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 5 November 2015 10: 16
      +9
      Quote: Shurale
      It has already been officially announced that we can’t even just repeat the Buran, what space industry are you talking about?

      All the same, what a huge potential was laid in the days of the USSR. It has been destroyed for 25 years, and despite this, something else has been produced, but the tendency towards recovery and even more so to a breakthrough is not visible even under a microscope.
      After all, it is absolutely obvious that the Russian Federation got out of the crisis of the 98th year exclusively due to the Soviet industry, which then remained albeit in a tattered state, but still capable.
      With the beginning of the XNUMXs, not only nothing was done in the sense of industrialization, but on the contrary, under the chatter from the high stands, many industries and production chains were destroyed, and there is no need to talk about the scientific support of production.
      The forces that destroy even the very possibility of revival are very strong, chatter and embezzlement, embezzlement and chatter, and many, many PR and dubious PR actions.
      While there is still hope that the people will wake up and send the state in need, in the direction of development.
  • Sweles
    Sweles 5 November 2015 09: 51
    +9
    There will not be, and there will not be, either an electronics-own base, or instrument making, or machine-tool building, all that we are shown on done is a screen. It won’t be until it is replaced, it’s a government that sits on money, but does not finance industry at all.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Eagle Owl1
    Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 11: 02
    -6
    Well, let's figure it out ... Who are you? What kind of education? what did you achieve? what did you supervise? what did you create? - even you can not answer. Try to think.
    Yapping at the person who created what you, the Internet hero, use.
  • Don
    Don 5 November 2015 12: 09
    -9
    Quote: Maxim Shilin
    Regular reflections on the topic "Putinslil", it is strange that they did not write that we still do not have an aviation and space industry)))

    I especially liked the phrase:

    "IA REGNUM: Who will shape it, what people, what social or political forces?"

    - Now I don't see who will do it today.

    Totally agree with you. Another drool.
    1. Eagle Owl1
      Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 12: 33
      0
      Quote: Don
      Quote: Maxim Shilin
      Regular reflections on the topic "Putinslil", it is strange that they did not write that we still do not have an aviation and space industry)))

      I especially liked the phrase:

      "IA REGNUM: Who will shape it, what people, what social or political forces?"

      - Now I don't see who will do it today.

      Totally agree with you. Another drool.


      oh ... another "hero-creator". It is a pity that one of those who created a great country can be insulted by an individual who has not created anything (except sandwiches for herself), has not come up with it, and apparently is not able to come up with it - only sexual and food instincts remain.
      1. Don
        Don 9 November 2015 09: 53
        0
        Quote: Eagle Owl1
        oh ... another "hero-creator". It is a pity that one of those who created a great country can be insulted by an individual who has not created anything (except sandwiches for herself), has not come up with it, and apparently is not able to come up with it - only sexual and food instincts remain.

        I may not be a hero creator, only I doubt that you yourself have created anything. And for this great country called Russia, for its interests and for Russians, I am a Ukrainian citizen who fought in the Donbas. And you are a couch critic, a resident of a great country, what did you do for her, apart from your snot, which you smear on the keyboard?
  • dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 5 November 2015 13: 56
    +3
    No, not "Putin's all ..." But just REALLY NOTHING IS DONE to change the situation for the better. Another empty talking shop about clusters, our answer is "Silicon Valley .." These clusters are often not self-motivated young scientists, but, at best, order acceptors (they will then be placed in Asia), at worst, they are just thieves ..
    Quote: Maxim Shilin
    Regular reflections on the topic "Putinslil", it is strange that they did not write that we still do not have an aviation and space industry)))

    I especially liked the phrase:

    "IA REGNUM: Who will shape it, what people, what social or political forces?"

    - Now I don't see who will do it today.
    1. BMW
      BMW 5 November 2015 15: 58
      +3
      Quote: dmi.pris
      But just REALLY NOTHING IS DONE to change the situation for the better.

      In jurisprudence, this is called criminal (conscious) inaction and is punished, as well as conscious action.
    2. alone
      alone 5 November 2015 19: 46
      +2
      What can I say here. Instrumentation as an industry is not. Machine tool industry is not. There is no electrical equipment. There is no electron industry. There is no special connection. There is no radio industry. These were the industries. And now they are gone.


      Quote: dmi.pris
      "And just REALLY NOTHING IS DONE


      Why do something? There is Rogozin. In words, he has already converted all the military-industrial complex, converted the entire military-industrial complex to domestic production, announced a bunch of programs. But here a difficult question arises, which of them lies? Shkabardnya or Rogozin? One claims that everything is openwork. And the other claims that there is nothing .
  • EFA
    EFA 5 November 2015 05: 44
    15
    In general, it is true that in fact we do not have the most important sectors, and there are many reasons for this. And here, somehow you involuntarily come to the idea that such a position of all (in the government) suits.

    For them, the presence of these industries would be a real headache, well, we really need to seriously deal with them, and not count kickbacks and oil dollars, and not send a trillion to banks.
    1. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 5 November 2015 14: 23
      +2
      Quote: EFA
      In general, it is true that in fact we do not have the most important sectors, and there are many reasons for this. And here somehow you involuntarily come to the idea that such a situation of all (in government) arranges
      And from 2008 to 2012 too? bully
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. D-Master
      D-Master 5 November 2015 06: 55
      20 th
      Illiteracy and rudeness does not exempt from liability. Judging by the language of the post, the author is not burdened with education and knowledge in general. But it sparkles with poison and tries to touch the president and all of us.
      So dearie. In order to revive the economy, one must at least understand the vector of its development and its problems. It is absolutely incomprehensible if everything was so good in the USSR, why revive the economy? She did not collapse overnight. To begin with - Our president Putin kept Russia in a holistic form and did not let it collapse in the likeness of Yugoslavia, turning into a scattering of independent republics. And the rest is not in this post. And you are bold (-). I hope colleagues will minus you to skulls on uniform.
      1. EvgNik
        EvgNik 5 November 2015 08: 10
        +6
        Quote: D-Master
        To begin with - Our president Putin kept Russia in a holistic form and did not let it collapse in the likeness of Yugoslavia

        But what, the history of the post of Soviet Russia begins with the presidency of Putin? And then who is Humpbacked and EBN? And they did nothing for the collapse of Russia? Putin's merits are not in doubt, but before him-were destroyers.
        1. D-Master
          D-Master 5 November 2015 09: 45
          10 th
          My post was a response to a cartoon of Putin. From kreakla under the nickname "socialism" And now the moderator has deleted that post. I didn't say a word about Gorbachev and EBN. My bile was directed at the troll who was pouring dirt on the GDP. And now, without his comment, my post collects cons from colleagues.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 5 November 2015 11: 08
            0
            Quote: D-Master
            My post was a response to a cartoon of Putin. From kreakla under the nickname "socialism"

            Found someone to write, he is a sectarian.
          2. Greenwood
            Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 12
            +5
            Because one cannot so vehemently bow to the protege of the oligarchs Putin, who crawled out on oil that had risen in price by the end of the 90s and his image of a teetotaler (as opposed to Yeltsin) and a fighter against terrorism. But essentially nothing has changed. Therefore, do not be surprised that you are being minus.
        2. inpu
          inpu 5 November 2015 10: 04
          +1
          I'm afraid that this is not about Putin and EBN. In 100% of cases, local staff decide. The collapse of the USSR is not the fault of one chairman of the Central Committee, but the process is quite a collective process. Yes, there were many who did business in their places, but on the whole it is very reminiscent of Alzheimer's disease, when links between the active parts of a single organ began to disappear.
        3. Nina Czerny
          Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 17
          13
          Putin is also destroying the country, only he is not doing it head-on. On the blue eye, correct speeches and appeals, but in the government and in practice - the continuation of the liberal "economy" and de-Sovietization of the country, instead of changing the vicious course - the course to finish off the remnants of industry and preserve power for 10% of the population, which owns 95% of the national wealth.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 5 November 2015 12: 18
            +3
            Quote: Nina Cerny
            , instead of changing the vicious course, the course is to finish off the remnants of industry and retain power of 10% of the population, owning 95% of national wealth.

            they are the blind leaders of the blind; what if
            the blind leads the blind, then both fall into the pit.

            Matthew
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • VladimirRG
    VladimirRG 5 November 2015 06: 31
    13 th
    Everything was as usual, in the USSR everything was fine and sweet, of course I am proud of the achievements of the USSR, but someone will explain clearly why, with all the achievements in science and technology in the USSR, a pity from these achievements reached the people at the household level.
    1. Just BB
      Just BB 5 November 2015 07: 08
      10 th
      Because in the 60s, the main one was thrown out of the "triune task of the CPSU to build a communist society" raising a new person , considering that if he was given a general secondary education and the opportunity to settle in a wretched dwelling called "Khrushchevka" with a wired radio transmitter with news from it how well this person lives during the construction of a new society, then the task of "education" is over and a person can pay attention! The main thing is to "beat up the foe" by all means - by frightening him with rockets, the amount of cement and tons of smelted metal
    2. dog1965
      dog1965 5 November 2015 07: 27
      15
      Because just in the 70-80s the foundation of microelectronics was laid. And at first, as you know, it was "everything for the front, everything for victory." Where, after 25 years of the fall of industry, in the army, air defense systems, electronic warfare and all sorts of things at a decent level? Just the developments from those years. And if we (but of course first of all those in power in those years) were not so eager to get all kinds of "buns" in the first place, we would get the same thing that we have now, only our own production. And if you rush for a new iPhone just because "RELEASED! I WILL BE THE FIRST BORROW AND WILL STRAIGHT OUT", jumping out of my pants, then nothing but an animal instinct will be developed. That we didn’t have refrigerators, televisions, tape recorders at that time? (Their production began to be established in the states in the pre-war years) Yes, later than in Japan or the States, but they were. So it would be with microelectronics. For me, it’s better to get something in the second or third place, but to know that the country is an independent POWER, and not an appendage to a foreign printing press.
      In general, somehow.
    3. Amurets
      Amurets 5 November 2015 08: 04
      +5
      Quote: VladimirRG
      Everything was as usual, in the USSR everything was fine and sweet, of course I am proud of the achievements of the USSR, but someone will explain clearly why, with all the achievements in science and technology in the USSR, a pity from these achievements reached the people at the household level.

      Elementary is simple. First of all, all the money went to heavy industry and the military-industrial complex, then to support friendly regimes and communist parties, and what was left was to develop the industry of the second group, that is, light, food, health and education.
      1. Just BB
        Just BB 5 November 2015 08: 42
        0
        What is money?
        This is, first of all, "the measure of labor!"
        The state knows how he and where working and how much money they need to print.
        And it is not necessary to say that money "went into the industry" - money for people!
        The second task of the state is to "force" people to spend money - quickly (food, recuperation, clothes ...) or slowly (housing, education, durable goods) - otherwise it's just a "piece of paper" and inflation, - it's easier to legalize theft: spent a month labor, and six months later, about labor "a piece sync"
        Perestroika somehow didn’t think about it: there is a lot of money, but there’s nothing to buy .... then it became the other way around ... That horseradish, radish - still not sugar
      2. dmb
        dmb 5 November 2015 11: 21
        +3
        Apparently, investing in heavy industry and the military-industrial complex was done by malicious commies solely for the destruction of the Orthodox people. With regard to friendly regimes, the "cape" is even deeper. Especially against the background of our current "presence" in Syria and Venezuela. And most importantly, do..ki-Chinese also for some reason climb into Africa and South America. Looks like they don't read the Amur people.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 6 November 2015 02: 12
          0
          Quote: dmb
          Apparently investing in heavy industry and the military-industrial complex, was made insidious commies exclusively for the destruction of the Orthodox people

          Explain to me why with the finished T-100 Sukhoi flying, they close the project and give the similar project to Tupolev on the Tu-160. Is it because Tupolev acts as a king in aviation. Due to Glushko’s ambitions, we failed the N-1 project. Maybe You’ll also give examples where national money went to please ambitions. The same thing happened in heavy and transport engineering. Now deal with the Chinese and BV. No one gets into their ideologies like the communists did. China has one god, like everyone else on Earth: GETTING PROFIT, not ideology. And modern Russia has the same goals.
          1. dmb
            dmb 6 November 2015 11: 03
            +1
            That is, "weaving" and H-1 are products of group B - akin to pots? When there are no arguments, empty flaws and lead the discussion away from the issue under discussion. It's the same with the Chinese. It is worth recalling that Maoiz was an ideology that the Chinese introduced already in Soviet times. And not only in Cambodia or Africa, but also in Western Europe, too. It's powerful about making a profit as the goal of life. Then your god really should have been US policy. But about modern Russia, you are true, its power is the goal of this. True, I am surprised that the Leader's fans haven’t beaten you for such thoughts.
      3. VladimirRG
        VladimirRG 6 November 2015 08: 07
        0
        this is understandable, for people what good is it? What does a peasant care about "blizzards" and other technologies if he is a peasant plowing on a tractor, what year is it ...
      4. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 8 November 2015 19: 39
        0
        Nevertheless, the education and medicine systems were much better than now!
    4. Nina Czerny
      Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 19
      +3
      Because the authorities broke away from the everyday needs of the people and did not understand that people can endure for some time, but not infinitely. Especially when people see that the party says one thing, and its leaders do not live at all like ordinary people.
    5. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 5 November 2015 14: 33
      +3
      Quote: VladimirRG
      why, with all the achievements in science and technology in the USSR, for the people at the household level a minuscule came from these achievements.
      What period are we talking about, and what did the Soviet people not have from what the US citizens had for example in the same period?
    6. Oldman
      Oldman 5 November 2015 22: 10
      +1
      Guys, when will you turn your brains on? The reason is that the country did not have enough for all the resources, the country has not yet recovered after the war, a huge amount of work, an arms race, construction, the creation of new industries, etc. Just stupidly not enough money and time ...
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 November 2015 06: 46
    -3
    A person who has not worked in the industry for a long time writes. The Russian avionics is alive, and the instrumentation, which is necessary, is working. And microelectronics did not die completely. She is alive, however, at the expense of enthusiasts, but she fights, and delivers, and tries to keep "on a level". Computers and TVs - does not produce. And it produces displays and chips for military aviation (military use).
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 5 November 2015 08: 14
      10
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      A person who has not worked in the industry for a long time writes. The Russian avionics is alive, and the instrumentation, which is necessary, is working. And microelectronics did not die completely. She is alive, however, at the expense of enthusiasts, but she fights, and delivers, and tries to keep "on a level". Computers and TVs - does not produce. And it produces displays and chips for military aviation (military use).

      What I completely agree with you is that it lives and survives not thanks to the government, but contrary to it. Thanks to those enthusiasts who at least keep military electronics a little afloat.
    2. I am
      I am 5 November 2015 09: 14
      +6
      Yeah, it works. Where is the domestic electronic base ?????? There used to be radio electronics stores, there were domestic parts for radio fans - now everything is Chinese, and there are almost no stores. Indeed, why do it yourself - we will buy everything !! Yeah, buy, we ran away to sell to us. Consumer Society - Forever.
      1. Nina Czerny
        Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 21
        +4
        Yes, electronics, we even ditched our light industry and therefore only Chinese consumer goods in all stores, including the so-called boutiques.
      2. BMW
        BMW 5 November 2015 12: 13
        +4
        Quote: I am
        radio parts

        You will be passed over by those who have heard the words: radio components, transistor, resistor, diode, capacitor, but have never seen them, and if they did, they did not understand what. In our city, you can buy them only in one place. This is a former Soviet store "Young radio amateur", a man shares a room with a small firm. A true fan of radio amateurs, but the store exists on the verge of profitability, there are very few such people left. By the way, he is always ready to help, even free of charge, of course, to the best of his ability. I respect and take off my hat. hi
        1. I am
          I am 5 November 2015 22: 15
          0
          For BMW - thanks for your support and understanding. In our city, the Soviet "Radiodetali" store did not survive. There are two modern ones. But, at work, we try to get it through the repairmen we know, in the workshops, because these stores - yes, they sell semi-finished products, but the controller, separately from the board (for re-soldering), cannot be bought there. I have to buy from disassembly))))))))))))))))) Therefore, the topic of electronics and industry is very interesting for me, although it was repairs that they started doing again, mainly, in the spring. Prior to that, everyone who broke something rarely addressed - the new one was cheaper.
    3. Morrrow
      Morrrow 5 November 2015 10: 15
      -1
      It's nothing.
  • sogdianec
    sogdianec 5 November 2015 07: 02
    13
    Under Gorachev, the defense industry was merged, "conversion", her mother ...
    How many "mailboxes" did not become in the period from 86 to 90s. There are few obscene words. With the "Drunkard" - a control shot. "American ears" can be found everywhere if you dig.
    1. inpu
      inpu 5 November 2015 10: 13
      +1
      Yes, and with a mustache. Today the situation is no better. We transfer 10 rubles, 3 in a pocket. And how many Italian strikes on the ground, the theft of not only finance, but also working time, etc. This is a system process. For 10 years I have been working as a leader in the manufacturing sector. He was in different companies, not only domestic. Everywhere the same thing. And the funny thing is, the one who screams more about theft almost always steals the most. Not necessarily material values.
    2. Nina Czerny
      Nina Czerny 5 November 2015 10: 25
      +1
      And why look for them when no one is hiding them! The Higher School of Economics, founded and supervised by the United States to this day, defines the country's economic and political "strategy." Skolkovo is headed by an American scientist, and they want to introduce a second foreign language in schools, reducing the hours spent on studying the Russian language and Russian literature.
    3. BMW
      BMW 5 November 2015 12: 20
      +2
      Quote: sogdianec
      With the "Drunkard" - a control shot.

      No, with him they kicked a lying man and no more than the one who was killed, who was broken.
      The control shot is being completed now.
      1. Greenwood
        Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 17
        +4
        I agree that many factories that have survived the 90s at the very least were closed already under the popularly beloved Putin in the “well-fed” XNUMXs, and I am generally silent about the deliberately carried out wrecking reforms in education and the economy.
    4. Amurets
      Amurets 6 November 2015 02: 16
      0
      Quote: sogdianec
      There are few obscene words.

      Take the mat encyclopedia, there are ten volumes. I hope that's enough
  • V.ic
    V.ic 5 November 2015 07: 21
    12
    And we live without a national idea. We have no ideology. There is no purpose. And without a goal, it is not known which harbor the ship will sail. Moreover, the national idea should be generally accepted, accepted by the whole society. This idea should be framed in the Constitution, in the Basic Law. The law should be a real flag, banner, shrine for any citizen of our country.

    But rightly said! I would also sign up for the implementation of these thoughts.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 5 November 2015 08: 23
    +7
    I heard that there used to be a lot of technical schools for instrument engineering, and profile, vocational schools, in a lot. Now there are none. Higher educational institutions have survived, there have been many new specialties - management, public relations. How much have the specialties needed for the industry remained? Also Research institutes on this topic were closed. Near the house there were several. Now, about 10-15 years old, these buildings are completely different. Where will the new specialists come from? They say that earlier people were very proud of such specialties.
    I always think that you can’t refuse and do not blame the socialist past. There is some kind of duplicity, to accept the whole past of the country, without erasing anything from there. Do not be ashamed, do not repent, but rebuild the Great Country that Russia has always been.
    If you accept ALL the past, then the national idea will become clear.
    1. BMW
      BMW 5 November 2015 12: 37
      +1
      Quote: Reptiloid
      If you accept ALL the past, then the national idea will become clear.

      No, you are mistaken. The idea is in no way connected with the past in its essence. After the revolution, they built it, and they didn’t build it too. The idea should be for people, for their full development, then it will be a driving force. But people have a past, and if you cut it, then the worldview is destroyed, which causes distortions in the heads. After the revolution, they made a mistake trying to trim the past, and by the way, Stalin quickly realized this, but unfortunately did not manage to finish it.
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 18
      +3
      Quote: Reptiloid
      If you accept ALL the past
      This is unprofitable for the current government, because against the background of the past, it can boast of little.
  • lotar
    lotar 5 November 2015 08: 30
    -3
    In our country, of course, a lot of pohery was bought, but much of what was poached in reality was not as effective in terms of economics of finance and lean manufacturing as they want to present to us. There were also huge amounts of money stolen by officials at that time, as now, though in not so large-scale manifestations. In my opinion, our worldview fully reflects our emblem with a two-headed eagle, although many of our officials and not only them interpret them in their own way, that is, as an example, where else to steal, so that they would not notice Yes, and praised and taking care of the people. But I understand how to take all the best in the West and in the East, improve and use for the benefit of the people and the state.
  • igorek4515
    igorek4515 5 November 2015 08: 39
    +7
    I completely agree with the author ..! Earlier in the USSR there were entire industries such as instrument making and machine tool building, as well as electronics, including microelectronics, but now, at best, there are separate enterprises, but there are no industries as such .. Alas ..! And all the current breakthrough developments in the field of aviation and etc. this is all based on the same Soviet scientific research and technologies. It would be naive to think that in a country that survived the nightmare of the 90s, when the scientific teams, those few who remained in the literal sense of the word survived as best they could without any kind of funding from the state, completely new scientific developments and technologies suddenly appeared out of nowhere .. Everything that is now being created in the region the newest means of electronic warfare and aviation, including for the T-50 aircraft, and not only this all comes from there from the so-called "scoop" which today's liberals love to blame so much.
    Well, as for the government .. It's all obvious. There, "upstairs" do not like and do not want to "bother with all this, because as I correctly noted EFA
    For them, the presence of these industries would be a real headache, well, we really need to seriously deal with them, and not count kickbacks and oil dollars, and not send a trillion to banks.

    Something like that..
  • akudr48
    akudr48 5 November 2015 09: 17
    14
    Mikhail Sergeevich Shkabardnya says

    “There is no instrument making. Machine tool no. These were industries. Now there are none. ”

    Yes it is.

    There is no mechanical engineering. There is no pharmacology. There is no education. There is no medicine. There are no pensions. Etc. There are a lot of things.

    But there are many things.

    There are 120 billionaires. There are criminal groups led by governors and ministers. There is a conclusion of more than $ 100 billion annually abroad. The yacht of Abramovich \ Rybolovlev, the largest in the world, is. There is an irremovable apex of power. The elite, crushing commoners on the roads, is. Payment of housing and communal services, you gasp, what, is. Entered the first hundred in terms of life expectancy - is. We are catching up with Portugal - there is (but this process is not fast, we’ll catch up, there is time). And there is much more, no one forbids watching. And wonder.

    We live, as they used to say, according to the scheme

    Nothing, that the chest is hollow, but the back is wheel ...
  • rica1952
    rica1952 5 November 2015 09: 26
    +7
    Everything he says is correct, officially there is no ideology, although liberal ideology is actually being embodied, the state sends the money earned to buy bonds of a potential adversary thereby supporting its economy, capital flight every year more than $ 100 billion. It should be added that victims in Sinai are also a policy of liberal ideology. we fly on imported junk, in Soviet times half of the world flew on our equipment, here is the result and only the blind can not see it.
    1. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 5 November 2015 14: 41
      +1
      Quote: rica1952
      officially there is no ideology
      The official ideology of as many as two chapters of the constitution is written (the rest is generally true)
  • NordUral
    NordUral 5 November 2015 09: 30
    +5
    Bitter truth.
  • bmv04636
    bmv04636 5 November 2015 09: 44
    -4
    Not all is lost. We are gradually recovering. Here is a vivid example of the Schwabe holding.
    The holding of developers and manufacturers of high-tech optical products "Schwabe" is an innovative holding uniting the main enterprises of the optoelectronic industry in Russia. It includes 64 organizations in the regions of Russia (Moscow and the Moscow region, Yekaterinburg, St. Petersburg, Kazan, Novosibirsk and other cities), as well as abroad (China, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus), including research institutes , design bureaus, research and production associations.
    The holding is part of the Rostec State Corporation, the largest enterprises of Schwab are part of the Russian Engineering Union.
    The main activities of Schwabe are the development and serial production of optical and laser systems and complexes, modern optical materials and technologies, machine tools, high-tech medical equipment, photodetectors, aerospace monitoring systems and remote sensing of the Earth, instruments for scientific research, energy-saving lighting equipment, nanomechanics as well as other high-tech products.
    1. dmb
      dmb 5 November 2015 11: 12
      +3
      Do not find that for a patriotic, domestic holding the name is somewhat strange.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 6 November 2015 02: 25
        +1
        Quote: dmb
        Do not find that for a patriotic, domestic holding the name is somewhat strange.

        So in this holding all the management sits in Germany and Switzerland and implements EU decrees. There are also many Russian employees in Microsoftoff (there were several thousand, I don’t know after the cuts), but this does not mean that this is a Russian company.
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 20
      +1
      Quote: bmv04636
      holding Schwabe
      What a vile word.
    3. I am
      I am 5 November 2015 22: 18
      0
      Yeah. And the TANTAL Plant, which in the USSR, was engaged, not only in the same thing, but something more .... lies on its side .... It means that it is more profitable to buy imported equipment with a 5-year service life than to restore the domestic (( `` (( (((((((((((
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 5 November 2015 09: 45
    -5
    Everything will appear both electronics and machine tools, already appears, a question of the next 5 years.
    1. Morrrow
      Morrrow 5 November 2015 10: 17
      +2
      There must be goodwill for this. And she just isn't there.
      1. I am
        I am 5 November 2015 22: 21
        0
        To do this, WILL POWER !!!! AND POWER. Otherwise, we will again buy sneakers ((((((((((((((((
    2. I am
      I am 5 November 2015 22: 20
      0
      LIFE OF THE PURCHASED EQUIPMENT - machines and stuff (even Chinese, even German) - 5 YEARS !!!!! Well, maybe 10 stretch. Here is the period for which it is necessary to start up a series of DOMESTIC equipment with normal maintenance and service life.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 November 2015 23: 33
        0
        For those CNC machines I bought, DMG has an expiration date of 10 years, by the way, a plant for the production of DMG machines was recently opened in Ulyanovsk, with production localization of 50 percent, with a capacity of 1500 machines per year, if necessary, they can increase production to 3500 machines per year, in 2020 they plan to bring localization of production to 80 percent, http://ru.dmgmori.com/
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 5 November 2015 23: 38
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          Those CNC machines that I bought, DMG, have a shelf life of 10 years,

          And what are you going to produce on these "wonderful" machines? lol
          And what is the price of these unique ones?
          Or you are a very secured person or it seems to me all the same, Kolya la .. for laughing laughing laughing
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 6 November 2015 20: 47
            0
            I already produce it - sliding bearings, flanges, shafts, fasteners and complex parts to order, but these machines cost, depends on the type of machine and the size of the workpieces, from 4 and a half to 20 million rubles - the price for such equipment is very good.
        2. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 6 November 2015 01: 40
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          in Ulyanovsk opened a factory for the production of machine tools DMG
          http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/68406/

          September 29, in the Ulyanovsk industrial park "Zavolzhye" the opening of machine-tool production DMG MORI Company. The new production site should become one of the most modern in the global network Japanese-German concern. Investments in the project amounted to more than 3 billion rubles. At the enterprise more than 200 employees are employed.

          Planned production capacity for 2017 - 1000 machines per year. After the project reaches its rated capacity about 250 high-paying jobs will be created.crying
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 6 November 2015 20: 50
            0
            One such machine replaces a dozen conventional ones.
  • Million
    Million 5 November 2015 10: 13
    +4
    I drove past the entrance of one famous factory somehow. The working day ended and people came out of the doors of pre-retirement age, there were almost no young people ....
  • vell.65
    vell.65 5 November 2015 10: 18
    0
    At the head of each industry you need to put a person who understands this and is more worried about the country, and not for what he personally will have from this. To ask for all their mistakes should be stricter, maybe then things will move.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 5 November 2015 10: 27
    10
    At the moment, the situation with electronics ... I wrote about this more than once. In order to be able to develop it, and not buy over the hill and program the finished, hundreds of thousands of people with high and highest engineering qualifications are needed. Obtaining such a qualification is at least 10 years given to the most rigorous studies. That is, 5-6 years of the institute, in which you need to plow up to the stars in the eyes and squeak in the back of your head, then study and train at the factory, in KB, again at the factory ...
    After such a school, we can already say that a person is ready to start developing electronic components and circuits so that these are real instruments and devices. That is, in the current realities, how?
    You need to find a lot of money for such a life, filled with work, work, work ... with virtually no profit. Institute - net costs. Studying at work is a meager salary, the headache is hellish. Ten years is almost all youth. What does a person receive in the end, for spent youth and hellish work?
    Some kind of pay. Sometimes even not bad, but to put it mildly, not very adequate for the years spent. And ... that's all! Who is this engineer? He is a powerless and not respected slave. The owners of production, consumers, in a word, the owners of money, treat him with poorly hidden apprehension and contempt. He is hated for his mind, alien and incomprehensible to the "masters of life" and for ... costs! What does he, this scoundrel, spend his master's money on ?! This is completely unclear to the owners. But they see how the funds that HE spends, spends, spends flow away ...
    Who is this engineer in life, what are his capabilities? He is nobody, his possibilities are none. In a collision with any owner of a stall with shawarma (not to mention serious owners), the engineer will be crushed, like a bothersome bug. Only in this way, and in no other way, does the reality of the current construction provide for any other scenario.
    But maybe the engineer will invent something, implement, launch, and become rich and influential, get compensation for the brain burned with loads? You can laugh, yeah. Let him rejoice if, in the process of the inevitable deprivation of all this that he invented and launched, our masters of life will not kill him and do not maim him much. If you are lucky, so get off, few. Well, there they raped his wife and daughter several times, put him on charges of assaulting king penguins, killed his son ... Well, as we usually do with suckers going across the masters of life.
    People ... who seriously thinks that the young man will choose this path for himself ?! What for? Why on earth? What instrumentation and automation do you think are crazy, or something ...
    1. BMW
      BMW 5 November 2015 12: 58
      +4
      Quote: Mikhail3
      ! Who is this engineer? He is a powerless and not respected slave. The owners of production, consumers, in a word, the owners of money, treat him with poorly hidden apprehension and contempt. He is hated for his mind, alien and incomprehensible to the "masters of life" and for ... costs! What does he, this scoundrel, spend his master's money on ?! This is completely unclear to the owners. But they see how the funds that HE spends, spends, spends flow away ...

      To the very point. drinks hi
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 24
      +4
      Quote: Mikhail3
      who seriously thinks that the young man will choose this path for himself ?!
      Choose. And more. Not here. And where is the thread in Seattle, San Francisco or Massachusetts. There you can do it quite well, and the salary is good. I know firsthand that there are friends who have gone there. Back do not tear.
  • v.yegorov
    v.yegorov 5 November 2015 10: 32
    +3
    I do not want to make any reproaches, either against the government, any structures ... They simply cannot.

    Once there was already a situation when some did not want, while others could not. And than all
    is over. It seems that everything is developing in a spiral.
    1. BMW
      BMW 5 November 2015 13: 05
      +2
      Quote: v.yegorov
      It seems that everything is developing in a spiral.

      Absolutely it is. You talk about it, you say, it doesn’t reach.
  • Whowhy
    Whowhy 5 November 2015 10: 32
    +6
    I myself worked in the military-industrial complex, though not for long. And friends continue to work there. No matter how it hurts, but everything that the author of the article writes is true.
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 5 November 2015 10: 36
    +3
    What can I say, a mess at a construction site you yourself know which space center even Zam could not stop before the government. What industry can be raised with such a state orgy ?!
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 26
      +1
      It scares me more about how the operation of the cosmodrome constructed by such methods will be carried out later.
  • summer
    summer 5 November 2015 11: 01
    0
    Quote: Babr (2) Today, 07:32 ↑
    The scale of export increased and increased, draining the economy of the USSR so much that they seriously started talking about introducing austerity of everything ..

    To save energy, for example, which was also exported, the clock began to be translated. Raw materials and energy resources were removed completely from the national economy of the USSR and handed over to the west. [/ quote



    Quote: Amur (2) Today, 07:04 ↑
    And what we now have is the result of the stupid domestic policy of our communists. Take the country along one of the paths offered by L. Beria, Kosygin, and a number of economically educated Communist leaders, most likely we would have a Chinese economy. Indeed, Dao Xing took for the development of the Chinese economy all the best that was offered by the leaders of the Soviet Union. [/ quote


    Logically - to blame for everything the communists! But if they had listened to “a number of economically educated leaders,the communists", You would get a" Chinese economy. "
    “After all, Tao Xing took all the best for the development of China’s economy that the CCCR’s dual leaders offered” - “The scale of exports has increased and increased.”
    To arrange a duel between “Babr (2)” and “Amur (2)”? (Explain to me - figure 2 - these are youth squads ??? wink )
    Quote: D-Master (2) Today, 06:55 AM
    And you are bold (-) .. I hope your colleagues minus you to the skulls on uniform. [/ quote

    They deleted the text of the unknown .. Looks like he violated some taboos. It happens.
    But. You have to understand - atu him, atu! He, you see, must not bear this. With shame .. He will do WHAT ?? What should he do after skulls on uniform ??? Dear, do you at least read what you wrote yourself. There is no point.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 5 November 2015 11: 05
    +3
    These were the industries. And now they are gone.

    But now we have a rozogin who, with his jokes, replaces the entire industry. And his son, who replaces all uchon-cut designers and, at the same time, all ineffective Soviet managers. One and many brilliant seedlings operating in the remnants of Soviet industry. All the genius of which lies in close friendship with - "the father of the nation, who knows nothing and generally for norot."
  • sergant89
    sergant89 5 November 2015 11: 11
    +3
    This year I was in my hometown in Dagestan, where I was born (was not 15 years old), looked at what remained of the DagZETO plant, which in the USSR was practically the only one to produce electrothermal equipment and supply it abroad, was the city-forming enterprise where the mother worked as an engineer, and father in the workshop, the total number of about 3 thousand people, had sanatoriums, pioneer camps, etc., etc., the total of 30 hectares of occupied space and 70 thousand square meters of workshops and production facilities remained whole from the strength of 10%, 2 years ago there was a special commission calculated the possibility of restoring the enterprise (it turns out the products are still in demand!), they decided that it was easier to build a new plant in the open field (I don’t know if they built it or not) than to restore what was left, but in the 90 they started to produce wheelbarrows and basins for conversion at the plant .Something like this.
  • Eagle Owl1
    Eagle Owl1 5 November 2015 11: 13
    +1
    Quote: Maxim Shilin
    Regular reflections on the topic "Putinslil", it is strange that they did not write that we still do not have an aviation and space industry)))


    Well, let's figure it out ... Who are you? What kind of education? what did you achieve? what did you supervise? what did you create? - even you can not answer. Try to think.
    Yapping at the person who created what you, Internet hero, use
  • Morrrow
    Morrrow 5 November 2015 11: 28
    -2
    Need GOOD WILL. GOOD WILL. GOOD WILL. Our officials need every Russian scientist and engineer to the West. Ministers need not get out of California. GOOD WILL WILL BE NEEDED.
  • summer
    summer 5 November 2015 11: 33
    0
    Seen typos - do not read "sio-nist Perdyuk", but "pianist Serdyuk".
    Correct.

    Babr (2) Today, 07:32
    The scale of export increased and increased, draining the economy of the USSR so much that they seriously started talking about introducing austerity of everything ..

    To save energy, for example, which was also exported, the clock began to be translated. Raw materials and energy resources were cleaned up cleanly from the national economy of the USSR and handed over to the west

    Amur (2) Today, 07:04
    And what we now have is the result of the stupid domestic policy of our communists. Take the country along one of the paths suggested by L. Beria, Kosygin, and a number of economically educated Communist leaders, most likely we would have a Chinese economy. Indeed, Dao Xing took for the development of the Chinese economy all the best that was offered by the leaders of the Soviet Union.

    Logically - to blame for everything the communists! But if they listened to “a number of economically educated communist leaders", You would get a" Chinese economy. "
    “After all, Tao Xing took all the best for the development of the Chinese economy that the leaders of the USSR’s dual-owners offered” - “The scale of exports has increased and increased.”
    To arrange a duel between “Babr (2)” and “Amur (2)”? (Explain to me - number 2 - these are youth squads wink)
    D-Master (2) Today, 06:55 AM
    And you are bold (-) .. I hope your colleagues minus you to the skulls on uniform.

    They deleted the text of the unknown .. Looks like he violated some taboos. It happens.
    But. You have to understand - atu him, atu! He, you see, must not bear this. With shame .. He will do WHAT ?? What should he do after skulls on uniform ???
    Dear, do you at least read what you wrote yourself. There is no point.
  • summer
    summer 5 November 2015 11: 50
    +4
    Just BB Today, 07:08
    threw out the main thing - the upbringing of a new person, considering that ... the task of "upbringing" is over and the person can be ignored

    I agree with that.
    But without - "" to beat the foe "- by frightening him with rockets, the amount of cement and tons of smelted metal." This was the first part of the "triune task of building communism" - "Building the material and technical base of communism."
    As the FIRST task of the Tri-e-di-no!
    Mountain shooter Today, 06: 46
    microelectronics did not die completely. She is alive, however, at the expense of enthusiasts, but she fights, and delivers, and tries to keep "on a level". Computers and TVs - does not produce. And it produces displays and chips for military aviation (military use).

    Sad girls. I will say more - domestic microelectronics is even slightly pregnant. smile
    You described the workshop of "Grandfather Liao" - production on the knee. This is not a branch of industry - this is artisanal production.
    By Oleg Egorov, Opinion section, "Super Prize" Ukraine, 24.10.2045/XNUMX/XNUMX
    But as soon as the Russians were “turned off” from this system, everything suddenly collapsed

    I’m vindictive - did you make me cons for criticizing this profound tirade?
    And a friend just recently explained to you the destruction of the Ukrainian economy - you spat it on. For it was not fucking "turn off the Russians." am wassat
    And after all, this is not a lone bump of sight -
    user (1), "Superprize" Ukraine, 24 October 2015 13:57
    After the Russian population leaves the ... republics, the economy, industry, and education degrade.

    And again, the abundance of "pluses."
    The question is, who and why left the Russian economy? Ravshan and Dzhamshut left the enterprises of the Russian microelectronics? bully Or Moldovans-tilers? negative
    However, this is only a clear illustration of the thesis - "how many people, so many opinions."
    That's just the abundance of such freethinkers (from the word "tight") of "Marshals VO" suggests the idea of ​​how deeply Comrade Stalin was right, thinning out the ranks of the "gold followers" in 37-39. hi

    Shkabardnya is a famous figure. hi I myself worked in the "nine" if you do not understand something about my attitude to the topic.

    Guys, it's time to change something "at the conservatory."
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 5 November 2015 11: 54
    +4
    Well, if such beavers write that there will be no sense from the guarantor, then this is one hundred percent true. The old guard senses such a scent. Everything is correct.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 29
      +4
      Pff, I realized that there would not be any sense back then in 2000, when he signed a decree on the inviolability and non-criminal jurisdiction of Yeltsin and his family, and later declare that there would be no revision of the results of privatization.
  • DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 5 November 2015 11: 56
    0
    Breaking, not building, the soul does not hurt. But we will restore everything to a new level.
  • Dan Slav
    Dan Slav 5 November 2015 11: 57
    +4
    The generation came, unfortunately, poorly educated. They are not to blame for this. The system has been disbanded. There is no motivation for work, for vocational training, no motivation for the family. But there was a system that shaped this. There were schools, technical schools, colleges, ordinary, factory, universities. Further training institutes were in every ministry. This is very important. There was the Academy of National Economy - the highest level was being prepared. It all destroyed.

    I completely agree! No motivation even to the family! Not to mention the rest.
    The guy is 100 percent right.
    Only the system was not destroyed by Gorbi and EBN, but the secret services surrendered their country! Sniffed and surrendered!
    And unfortunately, they continue to merge only under patriotic slogans and in the same isolation for the people!
  • 23424636
    23424636 5 November 2015 12: 37
    +2
    I worked for many years at the machine-building plant of the Ministry of Industry and Industry and I can say that the Cheka authorities allowed the collapse by letting the local shusharva with the cops go to state-owned enterprises and they immediately began to cut unique equipment for scrap and urgently make real money. This is the fucking privatization of '96 when the blocks of shares were just scum. Our plant fell into the hands of ISD - rare talents until the year 93 produced 130 machine tools in 2015 -1. For example, the Ryazan factory of DIP-500 machine tools is generally destroyed there now the Yandex base. There is hope for Rogozin: I respect a great person, a techie if things become a prime minister, things will go.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 30
      +5
      Quote: 23424636
      to Rogozin: I respect a great person, a techie if they become the prime minister, things will go.
      Balabol he is great, no more. Never answered for his words.
    2. Karabin
      Karabin 5 November 2015 17: 18
      +3
      Quote: 23424636
      : respect-great people, techie

      He is the same techie as a bullet from feces.
      Quote: 23424636
      if it becomes the prime minister, things will go.

      Is there little Medvedev?
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 5 November 2015 12: 43
    +1
    well, I would not exaggerate the colors - after all, we have "something that is" (we managed to preserve the heritage of a great civilization)
    And it is not right to compare the microelectronics of the USSR and the microelectronics of the Russian Federation at the moment.
    For example, in the USSR there was a whole workshop of women who manually soldered components on a board, and in the Russian Federation this work is done by the 3 machine, without human intervention. The problem is not in the industry, the problem is not in the staff !!! The problem is in the government !!!! in general, all this very much looks like sabotage, wrecking and betrayal. They deliberately prevent the development of national industries!
    We all live in Russia on a rotten foundation, laid down during the collapse of the USSR by our enemies!
    1. summer
      summer 5 November 2015 13: 22
      +5
      First, assembly is not "microelectronics".
      Secondly, on TV they show the production of electronic equipment in the Russian Federation in 2015. Sit, as in the good old "Savets" times, girls, or rather women, because You can't force girls there, and they collect equipment by hand.
      Thirdly, you can manually assemble it (Wiki):
      In a single production, during the repair of products and during the installation of components that require special accuracy, as a rule, in small-scale production, individual soldering with a stream of heated air or nitrogen is also used.


      All together, samples of floating, flying, running military equipment manufactured over the year in the whole of Russia with the use of electronic components, one automatic assembly line for an hour would be enough. Well for a day.
      If we take into account the frenzied nomenclature of CEA samples, then such a line would have to be re-equipped after 20 minutes of operation.
      I worked for twenty minutes to make a block for the T-50, we readjust it for a month, I worked for half an hour at the radio electronic equipment for the "Armata" - we readjusted it for a month, I spent five minutes picking up the radio electronic equipment for the "Borey" - the next month of downtime.
      Such lines operate in mass production. That in the Russian Federation at least microelectronics products are produced major series (in a thousand pcs smile smile )?
      And even if we take into account the use of frameless parts for SMD, all the same manual labor in small-scale assembly will be economically justified.
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 5 November 2015 14: 33
        -3
        Yes Yes laughing
        Quote: summer
        First, assembly is not "microelectronics".

        great - assembly of microelectronics products is not microelectronics)))))
        but if you are talking about the production of the element base, then I will tell you a secret that all the "brains-MK" of Russian weapons and strategically important products are of domestic production
        Quote: summer
        on TV show the production of REA in the Russian Federation in 2015

        everything is clear, I hear a ringing and I don’t know where he is ....

        Quote: summer
        All together, samples of floating, flying, running military equipment manufactured over the year in the whole of Russia with the use of electronic components, one automatic assembly line for an hour would be enough. Well for a day.

        Well this is generally a masterpiece))))
        You provocateur, my friend)))
    2. BMW
      BMW 5 November 2015 13: 34
      +1
      Quote: JonnyT
      for example, in the USSR there was a whole workshop of women who manually soldered components to a board,

      Dissemble, oh how dissemble. To solder a microcircuit, you need to have a very well-worn hand and more than a dozen sealed microcircuits. You may not need to approach a microprocessor with a soldering iron, which is why machines are soldered. Although the world is not without craftsmen, they cannot afford the flow, but otherwise good
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 5 November 2015 14: 40
        0
        where am I cunning ???? in microelectronics there is a tendency towards miniaturization. No matter what the craftsmen’s gold hands are, it is not possible to fasten an element into the required accuracy tolerances by post. Here the equipment is not all coping, and people even more so.
        1. summer
          summer 5 November 2015 15: 07
          0
          "A little slower, horses, a little slower."
          Why on earth do you get personal?
          Have you seen the movie about Munchausen? So, do not make a “smart face”.
          Brick production is not construction. Each process or phenomenon has its own name.
          Microelectronics - a subsection of electronics related to the study and production of electronic components with geometric dimensions of characteristic elements of the order of several micrometers or less

          Young man, if you are talking about Elbrus and the like, then it’s not for you to tell or listen to me.
          Masterpieces are admired mainly in museums and theaters.
          Maybe I'm a provocateur. And it would not hurt you to get a universal secondary education. It is still free.
          Try to cope with punctuation marks escaping you.
          Success in your studies.
          1. JonnyT
            JonnyT 5 November 2015 16: 08
            0
            but essentially have something to say other than verbiage?
            Quote: summer
            All together, samples of floating, flying, running military equipment manufactured over the year in the whole of Russia with the use of electronic components, one automatic assembly line for an hour would be enough. Well for a day.

            This is a lie and a provocation !!!

            In addition to elbrus, there are other domestic developments .....
            Once again, in the Russian Federation on strategically important MK products only domestic production!
            1. summer
              summer 5 November 2015 17: 43
              0
              in the Russian Federation on strategically important MK products only of domestic production!

              Young man, on this issue I did not mind you. This approach to the use of components was adopted even before my birth. Not to mention yours.
              And not only strategically important, but also tactically important, and operational-tactically important. And even in the military equipment of the battlefield.
              What are you boiling? You argue with yourself.
              "I joke myself and I laugh myself."
              Take care of your tender nerves.
              It is you who are engaged in verbiage. In a particularly aggressive form .. laughing
              As for me, I know such a rich word as "fifth reception". soldier
              Success in your studies ..
              And gbt .. laughing
              And then in the TRP
              laughing bully drinks
              1. JonnyT
                JonnyT 5 November 2015 21: 57
                0
                Dear, you have unreliable data on the state of microelectronics production in the Russian Federation and your words about the extremely low utilization of production capacities are, to put it mildly, erroneous. some factories "plow" around the clock. Some people buy a lot of new equipment under the state order. others use their machines to the maximum extent possible. do not deceive readers.
                success in acceptance!
      2. summer
        summer 5 November 2015 14: 47
        +1
        you need to have a very well-worn hand and more than a dozen of chip-off chips. Microprocessor with a soldering iron may not be suitable

        Is it from personal experience or folklore? When are electrostatic bracelets forbidden to use?
        I was not able to burn a single IP for a long creative life!
        For general development I give a tattoo -
        "SMD installation lessons, soldering basics, PCB soldering.
        How to solder correctly "-
        http://ur4nww.qrz.ru/discovery/b5.htm
        1. BMW
          BMW 5 November 2015 16: 19
          0
          Quote: summer
          For general development I give a tattoo

          I ask how many hundred boards do you solder manually per day?
          1. summer
            summer 5 November 2015 18: 18
            +1
            Believe me, for the volumes of electronic equipment that are now being manufactured for the RF Armed Forces and even for export, it is not at all necessary to have an army of "plumbers". Considering the high degree of integration of modern LSIs, the number of soldered joints for one unit of Military Equipment over the past 30 years has decreased by an order of two, i.e. 10-100 times. And the volume of production of equipment has decreased in comparison with "those times" in times, if not an order of magnitude.
            And nothing - they coped before and now they are coping. And no one has banned “wave” soldering yet. I know this not from books, but from my personal presence at the relevant industries.
            Here is more a matter of reliability of manually soldered joints.
            But I will not develop this topic to the extent of the lecture.
            Moreover, a free educational program. laughing
            1. voffchik7691
              voffchik7691 8 November 2015 20: 25
              0
              After soldering with a wave, 2-5 "patches" were manually added, and NEVER after women! I also personally observed it.
          2. voffchik7691
            voffchik7691 8 November 2015 20: 23
            +1
            Our p / I did 250 sets per month of rangefinders and 250 stabilizers. Plus 125-150 sets of spare parts.
      3. summer
        summer 5 November 2015 14: 47
        0
        you need to have a very well-worn hand and more than a dozen of chip-off chips. Microprocessor with a soldering iron may not be suitable

        Is it from personal experience or folklore? When are electrostatic bracelets forbidden to use?
        I was not able to burn a single IP for a long creative life!
        For general development I give a tattoo -
        "SMD installation lessons, soldering basics, PCB soldering.
        How to solder correctly "-
        http://ur4nww.qrz.ru/discovery/b5.htm
      4. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 8 November 2015 20: 19
        0
        He worked for the PO box from 1983 to 1991. Women soldered manually. After all the checks, the units were sent to the troops with a guarantee of 12 years!
    3. Justme
      Justme 5 November 2015 21: 19
      0
      Need a contract conveyor soldering? - Please Mars, Ulyanovsk
      They roll a batch of 500-1000 boards in half a week (2000 soldering points per board)
      Manual soldering is more expensive in cost and it is advisable to launch batches from 10-20 pieces (from 300 soldering points).
      A possible option is Rezonit, Zelenograd (but they are much more expensive). As far as I know, their line there is seriously underloaded.
    4. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 8 November 2015 20: 15
      0
      "And it is not correct to compare the microelectronics of the USSR and the microelectronics of the Russian Federation at the moment.
      for example, in the USSR there was a whole workshop of women who manually soldered components to a board, and in the Russian Federation this work is done by a 3-machine, without human intervention. "
      I worked on a mailbox and saw how these women sat and soldered! In those days, there was no alternative to them: I saw boards after wave soldering and after the GOLDEN hands of women! The quality is much higher. In 95, Sharp bought a video recorder. Not too lazy, because of curiosity opened. I have never seen such a nightmare soldering - we would not have released a single board. Snot stick out in all directions, conductors from the board stick out 15-20 mm! And after installation, we inserted the board into a special template, knives stood on the top and bottom, and if anything came out, the knife was cut down.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 5 November 2015 13: 18
    +2
    Total industrial production per capita for 1913-1950 in the USSR increased 4 times:

    http://forum-msk.org/stalin/9588278.html

    http://igpr.ru/articles/razvitie_sssr_pri_staline

    From 1940 until the end of the USSR, the Soviet economy and industry ranked second in the world in terms of gross indicators, second only to the United States (approximately 50% of the US economy). The USSR share in world industrial production was 20%

    By the end of Stalin's reign in 1953, the gold reserve reached 2800 tons.

    The population of the RSFSR increased from approximately 87,8 million in 1923 to 106,7 million. in 1953, i.e. 22%

    Under Stalin, alcohol consumption was more than 2 times less (a maximum of 1,9 liters per day of pure alcohol per year - 1952) than in tsarist Russia in 1914 - 4,7 liters.

    And how many plants did V. Putin build in his 15 years of rule?

    And what place does the Russian Federation occupy in the global economy?
  • Signaller
    Signaller 5 November 2015 13: 19
    +4
    And what is the GPP # 1 built in 1932 doing now ????? It does nothing. A brisk trade in consumer goods is now taking place in his workshops. Shopping center "Na Dubrovka". The only street left is called Sharikopodshipnikovskaya. And so many of these industries have disappeared. But they produced a sea of ​​the necessary bearings. Even special ones. Personally, those who brought this to one place with a stirrer and into the ditch of history would have thrown off. They don't give it yet, but it's not over yet. Let's see what happens.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 5 November 2015 13: 21
    +4
    The past 15 years have made the country a raw materials appendage (colony) of industrialized metropolises - the EU and China. More than 70% of all Russian exports are raw materials - oil, gas, metals

    A logical question arises - are the Russians capable of making their own goods at all without extracting them ready from the ground?

    The country is almost completely either absent or does not work, the modern branches of the economy are electronic and machine-tool-making, all the security forces of the Russian Federation are sitting on the raw pipe, and there is propaganda around the federal television channels of the Russian Federation that all Russia's power is supposedly in the raw pipe (and the power of Siberia - also)

    If this policy continues further, then in 30 years the textbooks of Russian history will write: "Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. Director of the gas station of PJSC" RF "of the Vasilyeva-Serdyukov era."

    Remember at last the covenant of the Blessed in the centuries JV Stalin: "TO TRADE IN RESOURCES - TO TRADE THE HOMELAND!"

    Russia needs a new economic policy and this policy is called in one word - REINDUSTRIALIZATION!

    The homeland should again become a world industrial giant, just as under I.V. Stalin - the first economy in Europe and the second economy after the United States in the world, 3000 to 4000 new plants should be put into operation every five-year period and the output of industrial products should double every 5 years!

    Vladimir Vladimirovich! Be worthy of the Greatest in the history of the Homeland of its Leader - Joseph Vissarionovich STALIN!
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 34
      +3
      Quote: Alexander
      Vladimir Vladimirovich! Be worthy of the Greatest in the history of the Homeland of its Leader - Joseph Vissarionovich STALIN!
      He himself said that he was a liberal. What do you want from him?
      1. Aleksander
        Aleksander 5 November 2015 16: 16
        +2
        to me even if he is a pederast - you need to forget about all this people and Time requires STALIN!

        Or he will become one - or he will retire.

        Tertium non datur.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 5 November 2015 13: 26
    +2
    Commodity colony of the industrialized EU and China - guess what kind of country it is?

    In 2013, exports amounted to $ 527,3 billion, which is 0,5% or $ 2,5 billion more than in the previous year.

    The export structure is dominated by fuel. In 2013, its share was 70,6%, which became a new historical maximum. In the early 2000s. the share of fuel in exports was approximately 55%, and since 2008 it has not dropped below 66%. Fuel deliveries in value terms also reached an absolute maximum of $ 372 billion. Metal products traditionally occupy the second place in exports. In 2013, its specific gravity was 7,7% - this is the absolute minimum in recent history in the mid-2000s. metal products accounted for 15% of exports). At the same time, the value of metal exports in value terms in the reporting year — about $ 41 billion — was comparable to the 2006 figure.

    The third place in exports belongs to chemical goods, their share in 2013 was 5,8% - this is a 7-year minimum. The value of exported chemicals in 2013 — about $ 31 billion — was slightly lower than the record highs of 2011–2012.

    Since 2005, the three groups above have consistently accounted for 84–87% of total exports.
  • mikh-korsakov
    mikh-korsakov 5 November 2015 13: 28
    0
    I was sure that what is written here is true, because I read the written comments here. But here, that beckoning surprises, Russia ranks second in arms exports. What is she exporting battle axes? No, mainly combat aircraft, helicopters and anti-aircraft missile systems. Last year, our EW funds drove the adversary from the Crimea. I know firsthand how processes are controlled in nuclear reactors and cyclotrons. All this should contain an electronic component, so that all electronics are purchased abroad? I know that no, not all. So how so.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 5 November 2015 13: 38
    +6
    We urgently need to re-industrialize the country at a Stalinist pace.

    It is necessary to restore the Gosplan under the Government of the Russian Federation for the leading state-owned machine-building sector in the economy, the nationalization of the oil industry, the Stalin budget - 70% of all funds - in industry, transport, communications and agriculture, the speculative (banking) sector and the raw materials (oil industry) sector - made MINIMUM profit.

    JV Stalin, November 19, 1928: "It is necessary to catch up and overtake the developed capitalist countries. Either we will achieve this, or they will overtake us."

    JV Stalin, February 4, 1931: "We are 50-100 years behind the advanced countries. We must cover this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they will crush us."

    WHY do we not hear such speeches from V. Putin ?!



    But while at the helm VV Putin is a loyal student of the shit-monger A. Sobchak and sits exclusively on a raw pipe - the Russian Federation will not become an industrial giant like the USSR and now China will not.

    The government of the Russian Federation consists of 3/4 with the blessing of liberals, shit and other enemies of the people - the Medvedevs, Chubais, Dvorkovichs, Grefs, who have all their families, money, children in the hostile NATO countries.

    We need Stalin 2.0!

    Glory to the Great Stalin!

  • Straight
    Straight 5 November 2015 14: 04
    +4
    The slogan of our rulers - we will buy everything abroad and the population will be replaced by guest workers!
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 5 November 2015 14: 10
    +2
    How we all lack Great Stalin now!

    Putin and his heels are not worth it - all 15 years he sat with his friends Sechins on a raw pipe and continues to sit on it - only PIPES: "South Stream", "Nord Stream", "Blue Stream", "Power of Siberia", etc. ., when it is necessary to carry out an accelerated reindustrialization of the Motherland.
  • Greenwood
    Greenwood 5 November 2015 15: 37
    +1
    Nothing, nothing, at the next elections, most of the people, despite all the screams and whining about their bad life, will go and vote again for Putin, Medvedev and all their friendly group of EdRa, tk. "NOT FOR WHOM ANOTHER !!!!" And then they will groan for 4-6 years until the next elections.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 5 November 2015 16: 19
      0
      They will. Only instead of ballots will they take Kalash and pitchfork.
  • summer
    summer 5 November 2015 17: 31
    -3
    Here, with your debates on high topics, I almost shook the barbecue. Holy water almost boiled. I had to return it to the refrigerator.
    Burn it all with a blue flame! Heavy, light, medium and general industry!
    But just not barbecue!
    Have a nice debate ..
    hi smile drinks
  • Buffalo
    Buffalo 5 November 2015 22: 35
    -1
    M. Shalygin should go to the site "Made with us" and view information on the tags "machine-tool building", etc.
    And would he be happy ...
    In terms of electronics, yes, there are still problems.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 November 2015 23: 40
      0
      With problems in the element base for radio electronics, we are actively involved in SHVABE and KRET, as well as a whole bunch of research institutes, KAB and private enterprises.
    2. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 8 November 2015 20: 36
      0
      Find an article from the "arguments of the week" called "under the blue sky" there it is well described what kind of machines they do here (they just re-stick the nameplates) and how much (4 times more expensive than they bought from the Czechs)
  • Buffalo
    Buffalo 5 November 2015 23: 10
    0
    Article on the website "Forward, Russia":
    Russia is regaining its status in electronics.
    On the site "Made with us", on the topic of machine tool construction, look at the articles (I can't give links - the admins are fierce):
    In the Sverdlovsk region, the creation of a new enterprise for the assembly of machine tools continues

    In Tula, created a new machine-tool enterprise


    In the Vladimir region, the assembly production of modern CNC machines is open
    ____________________________________________________
    A new production appeared in Izhevsk, Volgograd.
  • Oldman
    Oldman 6 November 2015 14: 34
    0
    Quote: summer
    From the very beginning of the discussion of the issue I spoke about the p-conductor industry of the entire USSR

    In the USSR, there was no p-conductor (usually written - p / p) industry as such. Production of semi-industrial products was concentrated in the Ministry of Economic Development, the Ministry of Instrumentation and (partially) in other ministries ...
    For the future, I advise you not to enter into a discussion on those issues in which you are not versed, and, in particular, in matters of creating (developing) microcircuits. You can be a "tough pepper" in the field of IC application, but this does not give you the right to professionally discuss specific problems of IC development, in which you are a complete "0". And, all the more, to throw such narrow professional questions into the discussion on this site.
    1. summer
      summer 6 November 2015 15: 48
      0
      Did you develop IP at Integral? Developed. Have you copied state IPs? You say you did not copy. Let's say.
      I ask you about the work of other design bureaus - you are not in the know.
      What do you understand? In the work of his department in his design bureau? Does this give you the right to consider yourself a universal specialist and expert in all the problems of designing and manufacturing IP in the USSR? Obviously not. But you, turning to me, insist -
      "This does not give you the right to professionally discuss specific problems of IC development, in which you are a complete" 0 "."
      You have demonstrated your knowledge, infinitely approaching "0". I have the right to discuss any issues without your approval. I have the right to “throw into the discussion on this site such narrowly professional issues” as I deem necessary, and which do not fall under the censorship of the site. Nobody forces you to get involved in a discussion and, moreover, to ban it.
      But if you, dear, have no arguments, then all you have to do is try to shut up your opponent’s mouth.
      I answered you "Today, 13:48." And he answered quite kindly. Do you need an ax of war? I don’t. I don’t need anything from you. You are cocking like a teenager.
      1. summer
        summer 6 November 2015 17: 05
        0
        I don’t need anything from you, but you will benefit from me.
        In order to lower you from heaven to earth, and so that you do not consider yourself “like God”, I give you a link to an article on the problems of the RFP in the USSR “from around the corner”.
        Open secret - everything is in the public domain ..

        http://statehistory.ru/4712/Priobretenie-SSSR-oborudovaniya-dlya-poluprovodnikov

        oy-promyshlennosti-v-usloviyakh-embargo-so-storony-stran-Zapada - Doklad-TSRU-197

        6-g /

        And even the F-2 is not needed. bully

        There was such a wonderful magazine - Electronics.
        There rarely, but aptly, notes were printed about the level of the Soviet semiconductor industry.
        There was a sensational article about the research of pin-dosami of the microelectronic filling of the hydroacoustic buoy of the USSR Navy. They admired the high level of licking in chip topology. By the nature of your activity, you must remember this fact. Now there is no electronic copy of the article on the Internet, but the very fact of "passing to the pages of the magazine" through the slingshots of censorship of such material in 81 simply killed on the spot.
        1. summer
          summer 6 November 2015 18: 41
          0
          I specify, the buoy was found on the shore of Canada in the 83rd ..
          The T department in 1980 reported receiving 5456 samples (equipment, components, and microcircuits), of which 44% were transferred to the defense industry, 28% to the civilian sphere, and 28% to the KGB and other organizations.

          who seeks will always find
          But you are specifically not in the business ???
          Personally, you angrily rejected the very low idea of ​​stupid copying?
          Did I guess correctly?
          Or did you simply not know about such a practice?
          Which is more likely.