Military Review

The developer is ready to adapt the "Warrior" to the requirements of law enforcement structures.

67
TsNIITOCHMASH expressed readiness to adapt the “Warrior” equipment developed for the army to the needs of the Russian law enforcement agencies, reports RIA News The message of the general director of the enterprise Dmitry Semizorov.


The developer is ready to adapt the "Warrior" to the requirements of law enforcement structures.


“The development that we have already completed today has generated interest among our law enforcement agencies, in particular, the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. TsNIITOCHMASH is ready to adapt equipment to the tasks of special services, law enforcement agencies, and if such a task arrives, we will solve it quickly enough. We have already developed relevant proposals, ”said the general director.

Military equipment "Warrior", today actively entering the troops, combines effective protection, small weapon, communications and intelligence.

Help Agency: "TsNIITOCHMASH JSC" is included in the corporation "Rostec". With the leading role of the institute, more than 120 samples and complexes of small arms, artillery, anti-tank weapons, military equipment and ammunition of various types were developed, put into production and transferred to the Russian military and special forces of law enforcement agencies. TSNIITOCHMASH, in particular, created the combat equipment "Warrior", 120-mm self-propelled artillery guns of the Airborne Forces "Nona-S", machine gun "Pecheneg". "
Photos used:
RIA News. Ramil Sitdikov
67 comments
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  1. Maksus
    Maksus 4 November 2015 13: 38
    -16%
    But why would the police need such equipment? This is an army kit. Can the cops also throw the T-90 with a flasher?
    1. USSR 1971
      USSR 1971 4 November 2015 13: 51
      +32
      VV very much will go. Now, some units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs carry out the tasks of storming buildings, etc. Criminals, unfortunately, have long gone not only with bats and injuries.
      If this helps to fulfill the combat mission and save the life of the personnel, then why not?
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 4 November 2015 14: 07
        -6
        A warrior is not an assault, but an army kit. To storm the buildings, not so much equipment is needed as special equipment - from thermal imagers to illegal means.
        1. USSR 1971
          USSR 1971 4 November 2015 14: 34
          +21
          Therefore, they adapt. Given the challenges ahead.
          As a base platform. For example, an armored car "tiger": with flashing lights and grilles - a policeman, with an ATGM - an army one.
          Why illegal funds? Probably not lethal?
          1. Maksus
            Maksus 4 November 2015 14: 43
            -9
            So there’s nothing to adapt, that’s the thing. Army armor for work in buildings is heavy and fetters movement. A walkie-talkie for the police and the army are two different things. To work indoors, you need active headphones, which is basically unnecessary in the troops (I'm not talking about spetsnaz). Plus completely different helmets and camouflage colors. Yes, for work indoors even GPS / GLONASS unnecessarily. Yes, and the same machine there, why the cops AK-12 or Abakan? Long, not nimble, too powerful bullet with low stopping power. Police need software like MP-5 - compact, fast-firing with a heavy bullet.
            In short, it’s easier to make new equipment than to adapt the army version. Comparison with the Tiger is incorrect; it is still an armored car. He initially has a dual specialization.
            1. 2s1122
              2s1122 4 November 2015 16: 45
              +6
              you argue as if you yourself are walking in this, it’s more clearly written what to adapt for the needs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
            2. ARES623
              ARES623 4 November 2015 20: 54
              +8
              Quote: Maksus
              So there’s nothing to adapt, that’s the thing. Army armor for work in buildings is heavy and fetters movement. A walkie-talkie for the police and the army are two different things. To work indoors, you need active headphones, which is basically unnecessary in the troops (I'm not talking about spetsnaz). Plus completely different helmets and camouflage colors. Yes, for work indoors even GPS / GLONASS unnecessarily

              You, dear, probably have no idea what "Warrior" is, what is the work of an ordinary employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs on the street, what is the work of the operational duty body of the Internal Affairs for managing the duty shift. "Warrior" is not only armor, laces and so on. It is a system of modern multi-rank communication and control over the implementation of assigned tasks. In short, this is a new "philosophy" of multi-tiered response to changes in the operational environment. Hopefully not too clever ...
              1. Nosgoth
                Nosgoth 9 November 2015 14: 45
                0
                And I, for some reason, did not like the "warrior". Too cumbersome and constraining movements (externally), especially with all these shields, shoulder pads, etc. It seems that there is not only lamp filling in the tablets, but also in the armor of the armor plate from the tank :-)))))

                And yes, anti-terror, etc. - this is a completely different "song" than the army. The approaches are completely different. Unless it's a cleanup operation. (but it also has its own specifics).

                And "The developer is ready to adapt" Ratnik "to the requirements of law enforcement agencies" more like "if you have something to cut, then we go to you."
            3. kavad
              kavad 6 November 2015 08: 35
              0
              Quote: Maksus
              Police need software like MP-5


              Do not believe it, there is already a long time! PP-2000 has been around for six years.
              1. Nosgoth
                Nosgoth 9 November 2015 14: 48
                0
                It is not necessary to generalize, from unit to unit (different regions), not only the form and ammunition, but also the range of weapons, even within the same structure, differ :-(
      2. Tor5
        Tor5 4 November 2015 17: 19
        +4
        Very logical! BB is a power unit and should be equipped accordingly.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. twincam
        twincam 4 November 2015 19: 43
        +2
        yeah, they don’t go with bits))))
      5. twincam
        twincam 4 November 2015 19: 45
        0
        yeah, they don’t go with bits))))
      6. Igor Olegovich
        Igor Olegovich 5 November 2015 01: 08
        -1
        Interior Ministry special forces will do, but they will get it anyway.
    2. prosto_rgb
      prosto_rgb 4 November 2015 13: 52
      +5
      According to an old long tradition: "Schaub was." laughing
      What do you think?
      The article explicitly states:
      adapt equipment for tasks special services
      1. iConst
        iConst 4 November 2015 14: 00
        0
        Question to the pros: how good is "Pecheneg"? They write contradictory information: from "very good" to "so-so". Who used tightly?
        1. Samurai3X
          Samurai3X 4 November 2015 14: 33
          +9
          Normal. It beats more precisely, in itself is lighter than the classics (mass - 8.2 together with the box on 100 p.). The return is not so strong. Extremely stable on bipod. I shot and almost did not feel recoil. The barrel is brand new. Those. PCM parts, except for the barrel. The resource of the barrel was raised to 30 tons of shots. No need to carry an additional barrel with you if something happens. The heat distribution is much more uniform, because of which the bullet now does not go along the channel (in PCM after 600 shots such a problem is observed).
          Due to the fact that the bipod is now located at the very end, the fire sector is reduced, so in order to move the fire to other sectors it will have to be rearranged.
          In general, the improvement of all that was in RMB.
      2. Maksus
        Maksus 4 November 2015 14: 52
        -7
        It seems that way. There’s a type of warrior, even if we have one.
    3. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx 4 November 2015 14: 18
      +2
      cc is not just armed, in a serious way, they aren’t without army men, for example, and their number is not weak, why would it
    4. SibSlavRus
      SibSlavRus 4 November 2015 14: 43
      +6
      And who knows when the state's punitive apparatus will be involved (the police and the courts in the first place). The army is definitely not all of the "elite" will stand up.
      Those democrats of the capitalist formation who are in power in the wake of the events of 1991-93. (find three differences from the Maidan, they say), they remember their actions well and therefore the opposition (for every fireman) is ready and modernized. While the country (many regions) is not in the best shape, for some reason, none of the "authorities" and those who feed on them (commerce) are not completely impoverished. Examples from a horn of plenty.
      It is not necessary, under the influence of foreign policy successes (not for nothing that started at the peak of unsolvable contradictions) to lull your memory and look indifferently at the decisions and their implementation by the power of the pseudo-elite (as there were many ghouls and remained, and the issue of final privatization voiced by DAM and supported by the GDP, only temporarily removed from the agenda).
      One question always wondered: why, what had to be done years ago, is being done only now, by the method of forcing events. This is me about foreign policy. And the Kremlin’s domestic policy, to put it mildly, like that carriage is still there.
      So it remains for the "pseudo-elites" to engage in verbiage, and not in business and their "reliable protection" at our expense. Oh, how (although it sounds cynical) the current government has played into the hands of the events in Ukraine - a lot can now be justified by this before the population and can be hidden too.
      Why trifle then? What the hell is the special services of special equipment? It is better to make analogue of the special purpose regiment of riot police and SOBRs, because even the FSSP (bailiff) has 7,62 PCs in service.
      Although what am I? After all, there are many citizens on the forum who sacredly believe in infallibility, honesty, justice, elections, EdRo, nationally oriented (and not westward) elites, restoring order and the fight against corruption (Finally, when the main economic assets of the state and monopolies found their the owners! But they need protection!) and other things ideal (and not real), and not in self-preservation of the status quo of the current government, and therefore showing activity, not concern.
      Anecdote in the topic:
      - Under my windows, some constantly drink and yell songs. I’m calling, but the police aren’t coming. - And you call and say that you have an opposition rally under the windows.

      And it would be better, intellectually, to expand the limits of self-defense (and not suit judicial farces) and give the right to short-range weapons to decent people.
      How many cops do not book, and the main task is to protect and defend those who have power, and not how it should be.
      Nothing, enough money, from next year, for example, taxes will increase many times for the population. I repeat - taxes, and not a progressive tax scale will be adopted.
      By the way, we can more than once (under the indistinct explanations of the authorities) compensate the external financial losses of state monopolies due to the internal price of gasoline.
      Pancake! In the Union, all this would be perceived as fantasy, and now as a norm.
      1. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 4 November 2015 15: 14
        +7
        Without superfluity, dear forum users. I hope everyone knows perfectly well what a state order is? How much the cost (price) of it is higher than market and even justified.
        And the re-equipment (re-equipment) of the power services of the punitive apparatus of the state, somehow not at the time, or perhaps for the state budget.
        Even if the state is straining even one Yakunin and Co., Sechin and Co., we won’t even say a word if they are all so patriotic.
    5. KnightRider
      KnightRider 4 November 2015 14: 57
      +10
      Quote: Maksus
      But why would the police need such equipment? This is an army kit. Can the cops also throw the T-90 with a flasher?

      You may not be aware, but special forces OMON, SOBR, not to mention the detachments of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, regularly travel on business trips to the North Caucasus. The police are not only traffic police with flashing lights
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 4 November 2015 15: 14
        -10%
        On business trips to the UK, they do not storm the auls, but perform police functions. The army is fighting! VV and OMON - checkpoints, security of objects and police actions. Warrior - equipment for infantry combat, not for police actions. Is it so hard to understand? The tasks of the army and the Ministry of Internal Affairs are different. Well, when our "talented" commanders try to use some instead of others, we get the defeat of the columns and monstrous losses. You wouldn't ask your dentist to have your appendix cut out, for example? But he is also a doctor, also wears a dressing gown.
        1. Karabanov
          Karabanov 4 November 2015 16: 45
          +5
          Quote: Maksus
          On business trips to the UK, they do not take villages by storm, but perform police functions. The army is fighting! VV and OMON - roadblocks, guarding facilities and police actions.

          Have you seen enough movies or read where? Parts of explosives on a business trip perform almost the same functions as army units. Moreover, when I served, there was an order in the event of an external threat to provide all kinds of support to the PV. So do not carry heresy here ...
          1. AnpeL
            AnpeL 4 November 2015 17: 24
            +4
            Parts of explosives on a business trip perform almost the same functions as army units.

            I completely agree. In the context of hostilities, in the performance of direct combat missions, there is practically no difference between soldiers of one kind or another of the troops. By the way, in 2000, frontier guards were seconded to us (they were with us after the hospital). Yes, in principle, and for those tasks that Maxus describes, adapted weapons are also very good. would be useful.
        2. 2s1122
          2s1122 4 November 2015 17: 39
          +5
          you know the bandits and terrorists will not come to you with coffee shops, and then you will need the police tobish OMON. And you inadvertently confuse those who are drunk and cheaters and operas who work closely with criminals and bandits.
        3. Wolka
          Wolka 5 November 2015 05: 42
          0
          looked, read, and came to the conclusion that most commentators apparently understand the essence of the topic in a very abstract way, do not be angry with a colleague, but you are right, the army and the explosives, including the special forces of the explosives, have different goals and objectives, therefore the equipment must be appropriate, Ratnik in in the form in which it goes to the Armed Forces today is really not the best option, and there is nothing to "farm", it is more rational to create something new, although something can really be borrowed from previously proposed ideas and samples ...
        4. ARES623
          ARES623 5 November 2015 06: 59
          +2
          Quote: Maksus
          On business trips to the UK, they do not take villages by storm, but perform police functions. The army is fighting! VV and OMON - roadblocks, guarding facilities and police actions. Warrior - equipment for infantry combat, and not for police actions. Is it really that hard to understand?

          I explain it on my fingers. "Warrior" allows you to monitor the condition and location of a soldier who is out of line of sight of the commander, and set him a task with control of the execution in real time. This function is even more in demand in the traffic police, traffic police, civil defense department, given the area covered by a "single dislocation" of several square kilometers. Our police squads, being on a constant leash, will no longer be able to independently dispose of office time and the route of movement, and in order to make it clearer - wander anywhere and strain anyone. Bribery will not eliminate 100%, but will significantly reduce it. Armor and pistol brands are secondary. Although it should be borne in mind that the external ATS services are constantly in the "fresh air" and are the main pillar of prevention on the "street", i.e. deserves every attention. I don't want to go deep into special tasks. Our "streets" are orders of magnitude larger than "special forces", but there is less real order. This is where the problem lies.
      2. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 4 November 2015 15: 26
        +2
        The tactics of the riot police and SOBR, as well as the special forces of the UFIN, are very different from the army. And so they are well armed and equipped - in the army. And the funds with the prefix special, total more.
        VV MVD - you can agree, because in the period of the database they will have tasks closer to the army. This will be the territorial defense forces.
        And the police are the police, not the DSB. The troops and the police (for that they have their own special forces to solve the complex tasks of their competence) have different goals, objectives, composition and purpose. Take an interest in the background of the question of their creation and much will become clear.
        1. Altona
          Altona 4 November 2015 15: 41
          +1
          Quote: SibSlavRus
          And the police are the police, not the DSB. The troops and the police (for that they have their own special forces to solve the complex tasks of their competence) have different goals, objectives, composition and purpose.

          -----------------------
          Last summer, convicts escaped from our zone, the police stood in armored clothes, patrols of three or four people ...
        2. AndreyS
          AndreyS 4 November 2015 23: 42
          +3
          Quote: SibSlavRus
          And so they are well armed and equipped - in the army.

          What are you saying !!!! Where did you get the information from ?!
          Do you even understand what the article is about ?!
          For you, the Warrior is just armor. But in reality it is a whole complex with radio communication systems, recognition, etc. etc. And what do you understand in the tactics of special police units during special operations to apprehend armed criminals (I am already silent about gangs and other groups) such operations are sometimes cleaner than military operations. I advise you to monitor video and other information, and if you are an expert in such matters, take a look at whether a warrior is needed or not!
    6. Forest
      Forest 4 November 2015 15: 35
      +1
      We have in the law enforcement agencies and the FSB special forces, and riot police, which storm buildings with terrorists, and border guards.
    7. YARUSSIAN39
      YARUSSIAN39 4 November 2015 15: 46
      +1
      they said so. what are you ready to adapt to the requirements that they expose, who said that it will be the same as in the army?
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. denisey
      denisey 4 November 2015 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: Maksus
      But why would the police need such equipment? This is an army kit. Can the cops also throw the T-90 with a flasher?
      Have you seen respected samples of uniforms accepted for the police or worn even worse? In China, such uniforms are not given out to homeless people for free.
      1. Haettenschweiler
        Haettenschweiler 4 November 2015 22: 18
        -6
        Quote: denisey
        Have you seen respected samples of uniforms accepted for the police or worn even worse? In China, such uniforms are not given out to homeless people for free.


        - The issue with the equipment of the policeman is secondary. Primary training for a policeman. Personally, I had to see very few, even just normally physically developed police officers. Usually these are fat lumps, or people with serious problems in terms of intelligence. I'm not talking about DPS - when a person is forced to sit in a car for days, this can be considered a professional deformation. But police patrols, faculty - must be in good physical shape and basic legal training.
    10. Nick
      Nick 5 November 2015 18: 59
      0
      Quote: Maksus
      But why would the police need such equipment? This is an army kit. Can the cops also throw the T-90 with a flasher?

      The minuses are in vain stuck to you. Could simply explain that the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs includes not only the police, but also special forces and internal troops that are fighting against gangs and sabotage groups in Russia.
  2. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 November 2015 13: 40
    +3
    "Warrior" to the requirements of law enforcement agencies

    This time begins, every cop should be a commando! They blow it up, but the main thing is not to overdo it ... (so that they are polite and attentive)))
    1. Kostyar
      Kostyar 4 November 2015 13: 47
      +2
      This time begins, every cop should be a commando!

      Well, yes, and the cook must be able to manage the state ......?!
      1. Vitaly Anisimov
        Vitaly Anisimov 4 November 2015 14: 04
        +7
        Quote: Bone
        This time begins, every cop should be a commando!

        Well, yes, and the cook must be able to manage the state ......?!


        Well, I remember our "cooks", at the factories they made tanks and shells for the front, while the men "crumbled" the Germans, Berlin took the result! hi
      2. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 4 November 2015 14: 56
        +1
        "A cook CAN (but should not) run the state" (C) Lenin-Krupsky hi
        1. Haettenschweiler
          Haettenschweiler 4 November 2015 22: 22
          -4
          Quote: MIKHAN
          This time begins, every cop should be a commando!


          “You don't need special training to torture people in the bullpen. And for more than the average "cop" and not enough - not the morality. A separate word about police special forces, but they are not used as "every" cop ".

          Quote: Region-25.rus
          "A cook CAN (but should not) run the state" (C) Lenin-Krupsky


          - It is unlikely that he meant that the state should be governed by "effective managers" who regard the country, its resources and budgets exclusively as their personal property, and the population as disenfranchised Papuans.
  3. ilija93
    ilija93 4 November 2015 13: 50
    +1
    The new feature of the hunting season is the right of the guards. Surprise animals. Joke!
  4. Stinger
    Stinger 4 November 2015 13: 50
    -6
    The cops will not pay for development. We got used to parasitizing on army developments and taking the finished. They never had a sensible customer either.
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 4 November 2015 14: 03
      +7
      Quote: Stinger
      The cops will not pay for development. We got used to parasitizing on army developments and taking the finished. They never had a sensible customer either.

      What for the army, what for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the STATE represented by these departments acts as the customer and payer. Didn't you know that? Is this news for you? hi
      1. SibSlavRus
        SibSlavRus 4 November 2015 15: 33
        +1
        But for this purpose, each ministry and department receives different amounts from the budget, how and how much which department will justify and already spend on goals in its own way.
        You somehow generalized everything, but did not detail it.
        In fact, right, in fact: development has a difference. Moscow Region and many special services. These are even different types of civil service.
      2. Stinger
        Stinger 4 November 2015 17: 54
        +3
        News, pv1005. I worked as a customer in the Moscow region for 20 years. The Ministry of Internal Affairs almost did not spend money on the development of military equipment. The main load was and is borne by the Ministry of Defense. The development of TTZ, design, military-scientific support of development, creation of a prototype, conducting state tests, trial operation and acceptance into service (supply), setting up production costs tens and hundreds of times more than the cost of a serial sample. Therefore, everyone is saving. None of our attempts to attract funds from other departments for these purposes has ever been successful. And leave your discovery of America, "What for the army, what for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the customer and payer is the STATE" leave with you. Best regards, Stinger.
        And in general, Gazprom pays for everything for us.
        1. pv1005
          pv1005 4 November 2015 18: 34
          +1
          Quote: Stinger
          News, pv1005. I worked as a customer in the Moscow region for 20 years. The Ministry of Internal Affairs almost did not spend money on the development of military equipment. The main load was and is borne by the Ministry of Defense. The development of TTZ, design, military-scientific support of development, creation of a prototype, conducting state tests, trial operation and acceptance into service (supply), setting up production costs tens and hundreds of times more than the cost of a serial sample. Therefore, everyone is saving. None of our attempts to attract funds from other departments for these purposes has ever been successful. And leave your discovery of America, "What for the army, what for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the customer and payer is the STATE" leave with you. Best regards, Stinger.
          And in general, Gazprom pays for everything for us.

          And a lot of municipalities developed TTZ, conducted scientific support, created prototypes, conducted state tests, special equipment, security and alarm systems, or at least a lot of it invested there? Or, too, did they take a penny from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Border Guards without investing? Or was it not your nomenclature? hi
  5. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 4 November 2015 14: 04
    +6
    To the guys of risky professions survived under the bullets of money no need to spare! This is a holy thing. Behind them are children and wives!
  6. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 4 November 2015 14: 04
    +4
    Quote: Stinger
    The cops will not pay for development. We got used to parasitizing on army developments and taking the finished. They never had a sensible customer either.

    And who pays for the development of weapons? Does the army earn money? In general, we are talking only about special units that really need modern means of protection and weapons.
  7. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 4 November 2015 14: 15
    +6
    The units of the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Internal Troops will come in handy.
  8. glavnykarapuz
    glavnykarapuz 4 November 2015 15: 00
    +1
    The developers decided to "hurry up" and expand the coverage of "clients".
    And it would be foolish if they had forgotten about the structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
    By the way, the larger the series - the cheaper the final product (although in our reality this may not be the case, but I’ll dream).
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. FIREMAN
      FIREMAN 4 November 2015 18: 59
      +12
      Listen dear,
      1) to call a police officer (militia) "cop" according to the rules of professional ethics can only be a police officer (militia), only among colleagues and then in certain cases, unless of course you are not a "prisoner". They don't tell you how your avatar is deciphered in the army.
      2) In addition, with such statements you insult other forum participants, among whom there are police officers.
      3) If you have any problems, contact the prosecutor’s office, court, or as O. Bender used to say in the relevant League ... they will help you there.
      4) Have you ever come to the address to detain people, to a family scandal, to a "cooking house", when riot police are not and will not be, but at you with knives, axes, pitchforks, etc. fly? Probably, not. And if any element of equipment saves the life of an employee, I will only be happy. About armored vehicles - bulletproof vest of 2 (3) protection class is an urgent need not only for PPSM, but also for investigative and operational groups leaving for the scene of crimes and incidents. An unloading vest and modern radio communications with closed channels are also required, and much more. Without knowing this specifics, you should not be like a street cattle and draw similar conclusions. Yes, in the family of the police (militia), not without u.d.d.d.v. So do not become on the same level with such a contingent.
      Regarding the use of army developments in the police. Yes, the police have always been a static system in this regard, but it is also known that army things are convenient in terms of operation, their properties are much better than usual. Therefore, I repeat once again, if some element of equipment plays a positive role in the activities of the police department, then this is the most important thing, and to blame that the army is one thing and the police are not the other is correct. Read at your leisure what national security is and how it is ensured.
      I have the honor hi
      1. Karabanov
        Karabanov 4 November 2015 19: 48
        +5
        In vain you are trying to explain something to him, it is unlikely to help ... There, a case has been started.
        Our moderators also apparently do not like law enforcement officers, since this abusive vyser has not yet been removed.
        1. Haettenschweiler
          Haettenschweiler 4 November 2015 22: 43
          -8
          Quote: Karabanov
          1) to call a police officer (militia) "cop" according to the rules of professional ethics can only be a police officer (militia), only among colleagues and then in certain cases, unless of course you are not a "prisoner". They don't tell you how your avatar is deciphered in the army.


          - Please tell us, according to what rules of professional ethics highly respected police officers torture detainees (not even prisoners)? And it would also be very interesting to hear about the professional ethics of those highly respected militiamen who invented and implemented the same "press - huts" in prisons. Or at least about the professional ethics of such policemen who gladly unleash a hail of blows from their "democratizers" on students who came to the rally, but hastily disappear when our younger brothers start dancing lezginka in the squares, or shoot into the air in a fit of emotion, wedding ". About the policemen and one modest market in Moscow, where they killed a young guy "just like that", I'd rather not say anything at all. Summing up: maybe there are good, worthy people among the policemen, but the general rule for them is completely, completely different ...

          Quote: FIREMAN
          2) In addition, with such statements you insult other forum participants, among whom there are police officers.


          - Among the forum participants it may well be blacks or homosexuals. About jokes addressed to Obama you do not seem to be indignant?

          Quote: FIREMAN
          3) If you have any problems, contact the prosecutor’s office, court, or as O. Bender used to say in the relevant League ... they will help you there.


          - "If you were attacked - in no case shout, do not call for help! A policeman can hear you." - an old American joke, very relevant in Russia today.

          Quote: FIREMAN
          4) Have you ever come to the address to detain people, to a family scandal, to a "cooking house", when riot police are not and will not be, but at you with knives, axes, pitchforks, etc. fly?


          - One went "to the address" of people to detain, the other stuffed a bottle of champagne into the detainee's ass ... but because of the first, we must respect the second. Nonsense.
        2. Haettenschweiler
          Haettenschweiler 4 November 2015 22: 44
          -5
          Quote: FIREMAN
          And if any element of equipment will save the life of the employee, I will only be happy.


          - The question is - in what situation will he save his life. It is one thing: when the Diaspora is defeated and a large batch of drugs is seized, another thing is when dispersing a demonstration of pensioners, for example.

          Quote: FIREMAN
          Yes, in the family of the police (militia), not without military police officers


          - You are too optimistic. Rather, the "family" is not without normal people.

          Quote: FIREMAN
          Read at your leisure what national security is and how it is ensured.


          - In short: national security is the security of life, health and all accumulations of the ruling "persons", provided by the inflated, like the US military budget, the staff of internal troops and all kinds of special forces.
          1. FIREMAN
            FIREMAN 4 November 2015 23: 25
            +7
            I will try to answer you briefly, concisely and on the case.
            1) I am responsible for myself;
            2) The police (militia), like the army, is a slice of our society - policemen are not recruited from non-aliens. And I’m not going to discuss much about this, just as I’m not going to explain to you that the state is by its nature the apparatus of control and violence and its functions are provided by the army, police and police within the established legal framework;
            3) That there are few morals in the army ... in, but no, not a little, the same cut of society. To tell you about hazing, how officers take rations from soldiers who have arrived from dismissal, how a "chip" stands in his underpants wrapped in a blanket (took a sip) ... continue ...
            4) And what the police judge, or the court passes a sentence in the name of the Russian Federation or something else;
            5) If you are so invincible, so cancel the police for a couple of days, you compassionate will take all the drunks and drug addicts to your home, listen to their nonsense, then they will take everything out of your apartment, sell the latest wallpapers from the walls of your apartment, etc. (best case scenario). Then ... and then God forbid you to be in the crowd of deceived young diving ducks and where your coolness will go - in the best case, TBI, in the worst 3 row 5 place birch grove;
            6) And the last, if it makes it easier for you, let me be anybody for you to ..., m ..., g .... and p ....- great and mighty allows. This is your personal opinion, and you have the right to it. One moment: no matter what a locksmith is, a gynecologist everyone knows how to do it, how to live, is treated there, here ... so maybe the plumber will take birth - there are pipes too. Excuse me, to be honest ... maybe I'm harsh. If you want to change the system, go to serve in the police and you will be happy ... The principles do not allow, then do not talk about what you do not have the slightest idea.
            7) The site is called "Military Review", not "Cops - ...", if you want to discuss this topic, go to other resources, the topic is not about this at all ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Haettenschweiler
              Haettenschweiler 5 November 2015 04: 53
              -4
              Quote: FIREMAN
              1) I am responsible for myself;


              - A demand to respect all.

              Quote: FIREMAN
              2) The police (militia), like the army, is a slice of our society - policemen are not recruited from non-aliens. And I’m not going to discuss much about this, just as I’m not going to explain to you that the state is by its nature the apparatus of control and violence and its functions are provided by the army, police and police within the established legal framework;


              - The police are outside the "legal framework". A drunken policeman, unfortunately met on the street, can offend with words and actions, and nothing will happen to him for it. But you can't touch him ... all the power of the repressive mechanism of the state will fall on the head of the blasphemer. Perhaps, in parallel, the police provide "violence in favor of the state", but this is not always the case.

              Quote: FIREMAN
              3) That there are few morals in the army ... in, but no, not a little, the same cut of society. To tell you about hazing, how officers take rations from soldiers who have arrived from dismissal, how a "chip" stands in his underpants wrapped in a blanket (took a sip) ... continue ...


              - The officers are with the soldiers. "Grandfathers" - from "spirits". The army mocks its own elements, its perversions are not splashed out on citizens. And this is the main difference.

              Quote: FIREMAN
              4) And what the police judge, or the court passes a sentence in the name of the Russian Federation or something else;


              - That's honest - I did not understand the essence of the phrase.

              Quote: FIREMAN
              5) If you are so invincible, so cancel the police for a couple of days, you compassionate will take all the drunks and drug addicts to your home, listen to their nonsense, then they will take everything out of your apartment, sell the latest wallpapers from the walls of your apartment, etc. (best case scenario). Then ... and then God forbid you to be in the crowd of deceived young diving ducks and where your coolness will go - in the best case, TBI, in the worst 3 row 5 place birch grove;


              - Come on, comrade, this phrase could belong to a hysterical schoolgirl, but not to you, an adult man. “If you don’t like something, then goodbye forever !! ..” Disadvantages should and should be corrected, even if the whole structure is practically rotted away. But you need to start from the head. And so to start, so that it soon comes to the "heels". And about "cancel" ... I grew up at Uralmash, and, believe me, even with the "unchanged" police, it was easier to grab a TBI there, or even a knife in the belly just by going out for bread in the evening. On the contrary, it is not easy to see the police.
          2. Haettenschweiler
            Haettenschweiler 5 November 2015 04: 53
            -1
            Quote: FIREMAN
            6) And the last, if it makes it easier for you, let me be anybody for you to ..., m ..., g .... and p ....- great and mighty allows. This is your personal opinion, and you have the right to it. One moment: no matter what a locksmith is, a gynecologist everyone knows how to do it, how to live, is treated there, here ... so maybe the plumber will take birth - there are pipes too. Excuse me, to be honest ... maybe I'm harsh. If you want to change the system, go to serve in the police and you will be happy ... The principles do not allow, then do not talk about what you do not have the slightest idea.


            - Stop. This is not necessary. I did not go over to the person and personally to you, comrade, as a person, I do not feel the slightest hostility and do not consider you to be any of the above nouns. Changing the system while working as a district police officer is impossible. And the state itself will not allow anyone to do this, as long as it exists in its own version, which is now. It may sound unexpected, but such a Ministry of Internal Affairs, as it is now, his completely satisfied.

            Quote: FIREMAN
            7) The site is called "Military Review", not "Cops - ...", if you want to discuss this topic, go to other resources, the topic is not about this at all ...


            - If everything were so straightforward, then the Voennoye Obozreniye website would never have published so many articles about decisions, statements and moral character of Ukrainian politicians. For instance.
  10. Forest
    Forest 4 November 2015 15: 39
    +3
    That's right, but how you look at our special forces is a combined hodgepodge of NATO equipment and weapons. Still a gun and a machine appropriate to put on the stream.
  11. lucdrakon2015
    lucdrakon2015 4 November 2015 15: 49
    -3
    such are all smart..analysts ...)))
  12. Maksus
    Maksus 4 November 2015 16: 14
    -9
    Strange, the site is Military Review, and the public is pro-police. Oh, Warrior, cool, we’ll give it to everyone, just as it will be in the movies. There is generally trouble with the military, it seems.
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 4 November 2015 17: 35
      +1
      Quote: Maksus
      Strange, the site is Military Review, and the public is pro-police. Oh, Warrior, cool, we’ll give it to everyone, just as it will be in the movies. There is generally trouble with the military, it seems.

      Yes, my friend you need to be treated. And very urgently.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 4 November 2015 17: 50
        -2
        And you urgently need to escape from here! There are only psychos around!
        P.S. "You" should be written with a capital letter, and "my friend" is an appeal, it is separated by commas on both sides.
        Total illiteracy ...
        1. pv1005
          pv1005 4 November 2015 18: 55
          +4
          On their own people are not judged. On you with a capital letter has not yet deserved. hi
          1. Maksus
            Maksus 4 November 2015 20: 15
            -5
            EH, redneck, "you" with a capital letter is written ALWAYS. The rules of the Russian language must be observed, we are in Russia for now.
            1. pv1005
              pv1005 4 November 2015 20: 39
              +3
              Quote: Maksus
              EH, redneck, "you" with a capital letter is written ALWAYS. The rules of the Russian language must be observed, we are in Russia for now.

              Well, bumpkin, I forgive you. By the way, the bumpkin feeds and feeds you. Just don’t say that only businessmen feed and drink you. And about the fact that you are still in Russia, something it is not clear where you are going from Russia?
              1. Maksus
                Maksus 4 November 2015 21: 50
                -4
                I can’t vouch for others. It doesn't seem to you that our language reform (the abolition of the letter "ё", and we went through the "Y") is clearly hinting at something.
                I’m afraid to seem impolite, but I have a feeling that now we are fed more by a foreign country than by a hillbilly.
        2. afdjhbn67
          afdjhbn67 5 November 2015 02: 34
          +1
          Quote: Maksus
          You urgently need to escape from here! There are only psychos around!

          Well, judging by the emblem - it's better to run to the site to see the pillkins. The audience there is more intelligent, not like the local "martyrs". laughing
          my minuses are not ..
          1. Maksus
            Maksus 5 November 2015 07: 11
            0
            So I ran away from there)))
  13. bad
    bad 4 November 2015 16: 19
    +5
    Why is the police worse? They also need modern equipment and protection, and weapons ..
  14. roskot
    roskot 4 November 2015 16: 44
    +2
    ready to adapt equipment for the tasks of special services

    Special forces Must have protection not worse, if not better. They are at the forefront of the fight against terrorism.
  15. APASUS
    APASUS 4 November 2015 17: 23
    +1
    As I understand it, the lines between the explosives and the army are erased, as they don’t set the “Ratnik” under the explosives they have different tasks. Even if you take into account the participation of the explosives in the assaults and the persecution of small gangs in the Caucasus.
    1. Karabanov
      Karabanov 4 November 2015 17: 43
      +2
      The motorized rifle units of the internal troops, in their organization and armament, are no different from similar units of the Ministry of Defense. With one exception: the BB is not armed with heavy military equipment, and there is no front-line aviation.
      I was quite surprised when I saw sailors in the training regiment, later I learned that the BB has its own flotilla. At least there were, if they were not disbanded ...
      In practice, the preparation is similar in type of MO, only specific functions are added, such as the suppression of riots. And so, all the same.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 4 November 2015 17: 56
        -4
        According to the organizational structure - yes, they are very similar. But the tasks are completely different, and therefore there are no heavy weapons and equipment.
        "The Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation (Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia) are military units designed to ensure the internal security of the state, public security, and protect the rights and freedoms of man and citizen from criminal and other illegal encroachments."
        1. Karabanov
          Karabanov 4 November 2015 18: 03
          +3
          Quote: Maksus
          According to the organizational structure - yes, they are very similar. But the tasks are completely different

          Everyone has one task - the fight against the enemy! Or do you think that the life of a military serviceman is more expensive than the life of a soldier of explosives?
          Enough nonsense to respect respected.
          1. Maksus
            Maksus 4 November 2015 18: 09
            +1
            Yes, about nonsense - it's you, dear, not at the address. Read the charter, or something. Everything is detailed there - who, why and why. VV - do not fight the enemy, they provide SAFETY! In particular, the explosive brigade provides security for the Leningrad NPP.
            You are not suggesting that the Ratnik pilots be delivered, but they can be shot down over enemy territory. And how can they be saved?

            And, especially for you, I repeat: you (you, yours) are written with a capital letter, the address "respected" is highlighted with commas on both sides. Illiteracy is off scale, yes.
            1. pv1005
              pv1005 4 November 2015 19: 05
              +4
              Quote: Maksus
              A warrior is not an assault, but an army kit. To storm the buildings, not so much equipment is needed as special equipment - from thermal imagers to illegal means.

              Do not enlighten the "psychos" present here, what kind of illegal means are they? You are our literate.
              1. Maksus
                Maksus 4 November 2015 19: 56
                -1
                I will enlighten, this is "non-lethal" (I meant special means of the "dawn" type, only new ones) originally should have been, its autocorrect in the browser made it "illegal". Tablet-s, what can you take from it) I will forgive for a typo
                1. pv1005
                  pv1005 4 November 2015 20: 21
                  +3
                  And you did not consider such an option that others can also dial from a tablet or even a smartphone before boasting with their literacy.
                  Quote: Maksus
                  Why are you being rude, eh? And you will not fight according to the regulations, Ramba? The battle manual is written in blood, you know. Although, who will entrust him to an illiterate. Even the one that is "platoon, squad, tank". Although I have a white icon, is it clearer?
                  P.S. And everything is in order with work, even in profile. And my work is far from statistics.

                  You know, among the owners of white badges, there are often "bad people" and those who are not respected by the team, although they write correctly.
                  1. Maksus
                    Maksus 4 November 2015 20: 46
                    -4
                    You at least know what that means. But comrade is not vkurse. The fact that the tablet does AutoCorrect is one thing, but deliberately ignoring the rules is bad. You do not pass the intersection at a red light, although the road is empty. Because you are a normal person, not a person who bought rights. So it is here.
                    And comrade Karabanov was the first to join YOU, and he signed me up for the "couch wars". Yes, and you also advise to be treated ...
                    Yes, and just make eye mistakes.
            2. Karabanov
              Karabanov 4 November 2015 19: 35
              +4
              Quote: Maksus
              And, especially for you, I repeat: you (you, yours) are written with a capital letter, the address "respected" is highlighted with commas on both sides. Illiteracy is off scale, yes.

              If you do not like "you," you will.
              Quote: Maksus
              Yes, about nonsense - it's you, dear, not at the address. Read the charter, or something. Everything is detailed there - who, why and why.

              Are you also going to fight according to the charter and forms? Sofa warrior ...
              Quote: Maksus
              VV - do not fight the enemy, they provide SAFETY!

              I served in the Internal Troops, and in the Caucasus, we performed the same duties as the military units. And yes, of course, according to your words, there were not enemies, but our good "comrades" who cut the heads of the soldiers.

              You need to work with some kind of extras, your thinking is stereotyped and stereotyped, you are our bookworm ... Do you know what is written on the fence and what is behind it?
              Or maybe you're just a stupid troll?
              1. Maksus
                Maksus 4 November 2015 19: 54
                -3
                Why are you being rude, eh? And you will not fight according to the regulations, Ramba? The battle manual is written in blood, you know. Although, who will entrust him to an illiterate. Even the one that is "platoon, squad, tank". Although I have a white icon, is it clearer?
                P.S. And everything is in order with work, even in profile. And my work is far from statistics.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Maksus
                    Maksus 4 November 2015 20: 14
                    -5
                    Hamish again? What for? We are talking, well, slightly elevated. And you do not know about the badges, yes, warrior? And I won’t score, firstly, I’m not a pervert, and secondly, I’m proud of my education. Like his epaulettes.
                    1. Karabanov
                      Karabanov 4 November 2015 20: 39
                      +2
                      You have already shown your level of education, conducting a conversation and hanging offensive labels in one of the comments above.
                      So in my opinion, to be proud of your education as well as epaulets, only you can ...
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Haettenschweiler
              Haettenschweiler 5 November 2015 11: 33
              0
              Quote: Karabanov
              I served in the BB, and in the Caucasus we performed the same duties as the units of the Moscow Region.


              - They only performed poorly, crookedly and with great losses, because a soldier can still make a "Vovan", but never from a "Vovan" soldier. To stage z / k is the very top of the skill, which is available to "wowan".
  16. AndreyS
    AndreyS 4 November 2015 23: 54
    0
    Quote: APASUS
    As I understand it, the lines between the explosives and the army are erased, as they don’t set the “Ratnik” under the explosives they have different tasks. Even if you take into account the participation of the explosives in the assaults and the persecution of small gangs in the Caucasus.

    I’m wondering, why did you decide so ?!
  17. EGOrkka
    EGOrkka 5 November 2015 04: 12
    0
    APASUS
    As I understand it, the distinction between the BB and the Army is being erased


    ... and your word adaptation ... what is it talking about? ...... and why shouldn't there be unification? .... in my opinion everything is so logical ... why fence fences?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. APASUS
      APASUS 5 November 2015 16: 47
      0
      Quote: EGOrkka
      ... and your word adaptation ... what does it mean? ...

      You explain to me stupid that under what you are going to adapt from Warrior for the needs of private explosives and then we will discuss your indignation.
      1. EGOrkka
        EGOrkka 6 November 2015 09: 21
        0
        ..... we’ll start well, I’ll try shortly, do not blame me ....:
        1. aramid overalls made of fiber "Alutex" company "Kamenskvolokno" -ВВ painting, green in the city is not very ..
        2. The set includes a multi-layer helmet, - for the city a helmet and a heavier one can be but more protected
        3. safety glasses capable of withstanding the ingress of 6 mm fragments flying at a speed of 350 m / s; -With protection, work, it may be visor ...
        4. + shield
        5.guards on the knee and elbow joints-- + protection
        ... well and further on your list .. I hope I have not opened America to you ...

        PS ... well, what kind of disturbances can there be?
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 6 November 2015 16: 31
          0
          Quote: EGOrkka
          .we’ll start, I’ll try shortly, do not blame me ....:

          I did not understand, everything else suits you in the army version for the needs of the explosives or are you considering some other Warrior, only 5 points?
          Below I have described all of the entire Warrior in sufficient detail.
          1. EGOrkka
            EGOrkka 6 November 2015 17: 08
            0
            ..... and the biser then why throw ...? ... you asked why? ... I answered ..... because! and then ... on the list ... in the same vein ... repeat
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 6 November 2015 18: 13
              0
              Quote: EGOrkka
              .... and the biser then why throw ...? ...

              The specialist is immediately visible by the detailed answer, directly Julius Caesar
              Came, saw, inherited!
              1. EGOrkka
                EGOrkka 7 November 2015 07: 35
                0
                APASUS
                immediately visible


                .... on the merits
                You explain to me stupid that under what you are going to adapt from Warrior for the needs of private explosives


                essentially the answer:
                1. aramid overalls made of fiber "Alutex" company "Kamenskvolokno" -ВВ painting, green in the city is not very ..
                2. The set includes a multi-layer helmet, - for the city a helmet and a heavier one can be but more protected
                3. safety glasses capable of withstanding the ingress of 6 mm fragments flying at a speed of 350 m / s; -With protection, work, it may be visor ...
                4. + shield
                5.guards on the knee and elbow joints-- + protection


                .. about the parameters of the necessary changes and the list of constructive solutions necessary for adaptation ... there was no question ... what is the problem then? bully
                1. APASUS
                  APASUS 7 November 2015 09: 34
                  0
                  Quote: EGOrkka
                  ... what's the problem then?

                  There are no problems at all, it is just that the Army and the BB have different tasks and hence the specifics and there is nothing to fence the fence.
                  Adapting a warrior for the needs of an explosive is like a tank for the needs of the police
                  1. EGOrkka
                    EGOrkka 7 November 2015 11: 38
                    0
                    APASUS
                    Adapting a warrior for the needs of an explosive is like a tank for the needs of the police


                    ..... why is the tank then? BTR easily adapt! ... and the warrior is least of all related to the tank ... I think it’s quite relevant ... not to make cities ... and finished products .... having changed a little to accept in BB
    3. APASUS
      APASUS 5 November 2015 16: 47
      0
      The structure of the "Warrior" includes several dozen elements of weapons, including:
      Kamenskvolokno aramid overalls made of fiber "Alutex", capable of withstanding the ingress of fragments of grenades, mines or shells, and also has a certain fire resistance;
      the protection kit includes body armor 6B43 (with ceramic plates) of protection class 6A according to GOST R 50744-95 (adopted in 2002) or Br5 class according to the new GOST R 50744-95 (adopted in 2014, is the main one): in an expanded configuration (weight up to 15 kg) or as standard (weight up to 9 kg) - without inguinal protection (armor plate and anti-fragmentation module), bulletproof side armor plates, shoulder pads (anti-fragmentation module). Also included is a multilayer helmet that can withstand the hit of a pistol bullet (protection class 1) from a distance of 5-10 meters.
      the set is equipped with the Sagittarius control system, which includes communication, target designation, processing and display of information, identification, which allows transmitting information about the location of the soldier to the command post;
      a communicator that determines the coordinates of a serviceman using GLONASS and GPS to solve the problem of orientation on the ground and target designation and other applied calculations [4];
      energy supply kits;
      safety glasses capable of withstanding the ingress of 6 mm fragments flying at a speed of 350 m / s;
      shields on the knee and elbow joints;
      water purification filters, autonomous heat sources;
      an assault rifle, or machine gun, or sniper rifle, equipped with a night vision scope and thermal imaging aiming system;
      video module for firing from cover. It consists of a thermal imaging sight and a helmet-mounted monitor with a control system, which displays the image from the sight (developed by TsNII Tsiklon OJSC, part of the Roselectronika holding);
      several types of thermal imaging sights - 1PN139 (large-caliber), 1PN140 (for normal observation) and an option for reconnaissance (without a name). Developed at the Central Research Institute "Cyclone", part of the holding "Roselectronika";
      "Shahin" thermal imaging sight - provides for the detection, recognition and firing of aimed fire at targets at any time of the day in a simple and complex meteorological setting;
      “Krechet” collimator scope and other devices (in addition to the scope, a 3x zoom tube or a “Lun” night vision monocular can be installed);
      the life support system includes different types of backpacks (a universal backpack with a volume of 50 liters, a raid pack of 10 liters; a 24 kg unloading vest with interchangeable quick-detachable elements), camouflage kits, a folding heat-insulating pad, a removable heater for use in winter, a ventilated T-shirt, a vest ammunition compartments, rug, cloak, hat, cap comforter, mosquito net;
      tent, sleeping bag;
      frost-resistant battery for powering electronic devices. You can connect several batteries. The modular charger allows you to charge from almost all sources of direct and alternating current. One battery withstands 12-14 hours of active use;
      active headphones that allow you to communicate during the battle;
      knife "Bumblebee";
      (since 2017) sensors for military vehicles and “friend or foe” soldiers. The device will allow to distinguish associates from opponents in battle conditions - regardless of their uniforms and disguises. A soldier equipped with such a sensor will be able to distinguish “his” from a “stranger” by looking at the screen of a special device that looks like a mobile phone. It displays on an electronic map the location of the soldier and the location of friendly forces at a given time
  • samara-58
    samara-58 4 November 2015 17: 24
    0
    Need to do!!!!! The faster fellow all the better!
  • the most important
    the most important 4 November 2015 18: 59
    +5
    There is no longer the Ministry of Internal Affairs ... after the quasi-reforming there is no longer the Ministry of Internal Affairs, no matter how sad it is to realize it .. They cut half of the personnel, and despite the fact that they cut precisely those who solved the crimes and were on the street ... Well, as always, there are five colonels for one sergeant and a women's battalion in addition ... recently a psycho shot from a gun, so he wounded three, including an employee ... two hundred people were overtaken for neutralization (three would be enough) ... and if it was a terrorist gang ??? what would have to involve 10 policemen ??? the name "police" - the staff hate it!
    1. Karabanov
      Karabanov 4 November 2015 20: 06
      +3
      Quote: the most important
      They cut half of the personnel, and despite the fact that they reduced precisely those who solved crimes and were on the street ... There was no command in huge numbers, well, as always, five colonels per sergeant

      I completely agree. All these reforms are under the guise of improving the efficiency of the police-police, dusting eyes, simulation.
      We cut a large number of employees for reporting, but in fact there is no one to work on the ground. External services are choked with a lack of qualified personnel and an overly "stick" system. But the staff and various chiefs and sub-chiefs are all in place and multiply like rabbits ... But there is no one to work, only demands ....
      All these innovations are made through one place, and someone is clearly interested in this.
      Quote: the most important
      the name "police" - the staff hate it!

      And it is true.
  • satelit24
    satelit24 4 November 2015 19: 00
    -5
    And, in my opinion, everything is much simpler! Someone from the cop top bobla wanted!
    Although, in America, the cops were given heavy armor with grenade launchers! They are afraid - they say the people on the forks want to raise someone belay
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Sreben
    Sreben 4 November 2015 21: 53
    +2
    I wish I could get such a kit for personal needs. As the saying goes "be ready"