Military Review

22 seconds before the crash

190
What happened to the A-321 plane in the sky over Sinai


The death of the A-321 aircraft, which operated flight 9268 from the Egyptian Sharm El Sheikh to Pulkovo with 217 passengers and seven crew members on board, became the largest aviation disaster in stories Russia and the USSR. In the Soviet Union, the worst accident occurred in the area of ​​Uchkuduk 10 July 1985. Then, as a result of the fall of the Tu-154, flying from Karshi to Leningrad, the 191 passenger and nine crew members were killed.

The death of the Kogalymavia (Metrojet) flight 9268 from the very beginning was accompanied not only by unverified information, but also by explicit throw-ins. In the first hours after the tragedy, Arab news agencies reported, referring to some rescuers operating at the crash site, that А-321 collapsed when falling into two large parts and even groans and calls for help were heard from the tail section. A little later, some representatives of the "Islamic State" claimed responsibility for the terrorist act on board the Russian aircraft. This statement was immediately picked up by foreign and some of the domestic media.

22 seconds before the crash


Let's try to figure out what happened in the sky over the Sinai October 31.

On the fateful day, the Airbus A-321 flew out of the Egyptian airport at 6 hours 51 minute Moscow time (3.51 GMT), but already at 7.14 (4.14) it didn’t contact Larnaca airport, and a few seconds earlier the flight disappeared from radar screens.

As a result of the search and rescue operations that have begun, it was established that the wreckage of the aircraft, scattered over the area from 16 to 20 square kilometers, has characteristic signs that the Airbus had already collapsed in the air. Recall that the wreckage of the Malaysian "Boeing-777", following the flight MH-17 and killed over the south-east of Ukraine, spread over the square more than 50 square kilometers. Already on November 1, the Rosaviation and the Interstate Aviation Committee confirmed that the destruction of the А-321 occurred still in the air.

At this moment, despite the fact that the flight recorders, they are also “black boxes”, are not only found by the rescuers, but are already deciphered, data on the flight parameters of the A-321 “Kogalymavia” are available only from the Internet service FlightRadar24.

In 7.12 (4.12) the plane was at an altitude of 10 200 meters (33 500 feet), continuing to climb, in order to stand on a train to the Pulkovo airport. The flight speed was approximately 750 kilometers per hour (just over 400 knots), and the vertical speed was unchanged. But exactly in 7.13 (4.13), the flight speed dropped to 170 kilometers per hour (slightly more than 20 nodes) and, according to resource estimates by aviation-safety.net (scheme obtained from the FR24 data processing), the vertical speed began to equal 6000 feet per minute or 30,48 meters per second (a negative figure means that the aircraft is reduced). It was no longer a dive, not a dive, but actually a fall. At this point, A-321, having lost 5000 feet, was at an altitude of about 8600 meters (28 375 feet).

And then the strange begins. In a matter of seconds (from 07.13.00 to 07.13.22), the vertical speed of the liner rose to 4000 feet per minute (20,3 m / s), then it fell again to 6000, but then sharply rose to 4000 feet per minute. The plane went up. But not having managed to gain the lost hundreds of meters, the liner again began to fall at a vertical speed, already 6500 feet per minute (33 m / s). And again, the fall was replaced by a sharp climb. From 07.13.15 to 07.13.19, vertical speed increased to 9000 feet per minute (45 m / s). "Airbus" went into a sharp climb, which in 07.13.22 again ended in a fall, during which, most likely, the plane began to crumble.

If we sum up the intermediate total, then in fact the 22 seconds the plane tried to stop the fall and go on to climb, while every time it failed. But then its vertical speed increased to such parameters that the car reached the maximum angles of attack and, accordingly, beyond-limit overloads. Next - the fall and destruction of A-321.

Note that the figures for the vertical speed obtained from the data processing service FlightRadar24 and in reality could be lower.

In the media, there was a message that the crew of the aircraft allegedly turned to air traffic controllers for help. According to some reports, he reported a certain malfunction; according to others, he requested permission to land. But both the Egyptian and Russian authorities deny that such a conversation took place.

In the first hours after the tragedy, there was evidence that the deceased A-321 had problems with the engines, which the pilots repeatedly reported to their management. True, the representatives of the carrier announced in the evening of 31 in October that there were no calls, the airliner promptly passed all maintenance work.

Versions


The Observer of the Military-Industrial Courier managed to communicate with employees and staff of companies operating similar passenger liners, as well as representatives of the Russian government agencies responsible for control in the aviation sector.

Most of the interlocutors stated unequivocally that they would not draw conclusions at least until the decoding of the flight recorders would be announced, but agreed to give an explanation of the facts already available.



Judging by the data from aviation-safety.net, although there has been a sharp decrease in speed, it is hardly possible to talk about the problems or failure of one of the IAE V2500 engines. In this case, the plane could not move several times into a climb before falling. According to one of the representatives of the airline - operator A-321, this at least indicates that not only the power plant kept the craving, but also the motor automation worked.

We can say that during the 22 seconds the autopilot of the airliner tried to fend off what, in the words of one interlocutor, “it was almost impossible to fend off”. But then, instead of stabilizing the liner, the automation, unable to cope, transferred the plane to an abrupt climb, leading to transcendental overloads, reaching critical angles of attack, stalling (possibly a corkscrew) and destruction of the structure.

The causes of the impact that led to the death of the “Airbus” can be either mechanical problems with elevators or a stabilizer, or the failure of the automation itself, also called EDSU (electronic-remote control system). It is not excluded that the pilots, faced with a malfunction in the control system, tried to hold the plane on their own, parrying the impact.

But the mechanical failure of the rudders or stabilizer could only lead to a plane crash. Climb in this case is unreal. And at least a partial failure of the control system causes the occurrence of so-called self-oscillations, which are very similar to the above data on vertical speed.

True, almost all of the respondents with the failure of EDSU were still questioned, pointing out that during the operation of А-321 this was not the case, and the Airbus control system itself is very reliable and its most important elements are duplicated.

Representatives of the industry were skeptical enough about the possible defeat of an aircraft from anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as undermining the device aboard the terrorists. A rocket hit, as the example of the Malaysian Boeing-777 showed, would have led to an instantaneous destruction of the structure and a fall of the aircraft’s remnants over a fairly large area, the same can be said about the application of the VCA.

conclusions


The tragedy of the 9268 flight is still waiting to be investigated. Data on the flight recorders has not yet been published, debris is being collected. Allocation of A-321 remains ahead, but now not only experts of varying degrees of awareness, but even various officials point out that the crashed liner survived four owners and the 18 car for years - this is not the place in the fleets of Russian carriers, it is necessary to raise the domestic aviation industry .

The A-321 is the largest aircraft of the A-320 family, considered the record for the number of cars produced and operated. "Three hundred and twenty-first" is able to transport from 170 to 220 passengers for distances up to 5600 kilometers. At the same time, the Superjet takes from 98 to 108 passengers at a distance of just over three thousand kilometers (or 4500 in the Long Range version). Theoretically, the closest figures to the three hundred and twenty-first ones put into operation in 1994 year should be with the newest Russian MC-21, whose first flight has not yet taken place. The Tu-204 / 214, also capable of carrying more than 200 passengers to a range of six to seven thousand kilometers (depending on the model), are operated by only a few airlines (the largest fleet of Russia and Red Wings are 12 and 8 machines respectively).

Alas, one thing is already clear: the tragedy of the 9268 flight will be used for any loud statements for a long time, and the rise of the domestic aviation industry requires painstaking, hard work.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/27832
190 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. USSR 1971
    USSR 1971 4 November 2015 14: 25 New
    71
    I thought, read, there are many versions, not one has 100% justification. I will not be clever, there are experts and specialists in the end. Eternal memory to the dead and condolences to relatives.
    I definitely agree on one point: the Russian aviation industry has to go through a great test and promising development. Without those who exchange human lives for monetary benefits and profits.
    1. Riv
      Riv 4 November 2015 14: 36 New
      -53
      Shit question. Serdyukov will be engaged.
      1. USSR 1971
        USSR 1971 4 November 2015 14: 39 New
        +1
        Yes, like no, I’ve heard they’re not appointing it already.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 4 November 2015 14: 47 New
          84
          What happened to the A-321 plane in the sky over Sinai

          I think we need to reduce the number of articles about the A-321 accident to VO. Stop procrastinating one and the same thing: no news whatsoever, and all the time to list speculations and guesses - the truth does not add to this disaster.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 4 November 2015 15: 43 New
            114
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            and all the time to list speculation and conjecture - the truth does not add to this disaster.

            Повторяюс,ь лично летел из Шармика компанией "Кагалымавиа", сейчас трудно сказаать этим ли бортом, но по порядку:
            1. there was a flight delay somewhere around 2 hours
            2. the plane just landed quickly unloaded and immediately began to load with our luggage, food and refuel (who was at the Sharma airport will confirm that all the manipulations-operations on the runway are very well visible from the airport building)
            3. the plane was really old, and the entire cabin was used for the maximum possible quantitative placement of passengers, but not of high quality.
            4.моё посадочное место распологалось в притык к задней переборке соответственно по наклону спинки кресло не регулировалось, да и ноги вытянуть было особо некуда.После часа полёта у меня затекло всё тело, но спасибо бортпроводникам ,которые позволили пролететь часть пути в отсеке, предназначенном для стюартов(за "шторкой" по-простому говоря).
            5. during placement on his seat I found cardboard boxes under the armchair that were clearly not the property of the passengers.
            6. During the flight on board there was a conflict between drunken passengers, but by the forces of an older stewart and the tourists themselves, the conflict was resolved very quickly.
            7.по словам бортпроводников, за всю их лётную карьеру самолёт был "конченой развалюхой"
            8. By professional qualities to the service personnel and crew there are NO complaints!

            PS. From my own experience with flights, I can say that it was never better to fly anything than our ILs 86-96. IMHO.
            1. severniy
              severniy 4 November 2015 17: 13 New
              17
              I haven’t flown for a long time .., but two years ago there were many trips on intercity buses ... there is even a selection of photos of salons and video recording where talking with a neighbor is impossible because of howling either dvigla or bridge ... the state of this permission say fleet every time terrified me ...
              I understand where the buses are, and where the planes, but all the same ..., the country is one, and when there is order in passenger aviation, who knows ... it’s good though they took some minibuses somewhere .. and then the struggle is with varying success .. .
              1. dmi.pris
                dmi.pris 4 November 2015 18: 15 New
                +8
                And greed and just do not care is the same .... What's in the sky, on the earth ...
                Quote: severniy
                I haven’t flown for a long time .., but two years ago there were many trips on intercity buses ... there is even a selection of photos of salons and video recording where talking with a neighbor is impossible because of howling either dvigla or bridge ... the state of this permission say fleet every time terrified me ...
                I understand where the buses are, and where the planes, but all the same ..., the country is one, and when there is order in passenger aviation, who knows ... it’s good though they took some minibuses somewhere .. and then the struggle is with varying success .. .
                1. APASUS
                  APASUS 4 November 2015 20: 44 New
                  13
                  Quote: dmi.pris
                  But greed and just do not care the same.

                  One can argue about the indifference - the plane will not be Lada, it will not fly on scotch tape, but the greed of our businessmen requires a separate discussion, they want 120% profit from each piece of iron!
                  1. Stanislas
                    Stanislas 4 November 2015 21: 52 New
                    +7
                    Quote: APASUS
                    from each piece of iron they want to have 120% of the profit!
                    If traders in Turkish tomatoes have 300%, then hucksters from aviation want the same. The Antimonopoly Committee sleeps simply, or they are fed, transported for free ...
                    1. Yuri from Volgograd
                      Yuri from Volgograd 5 November 2015 01: 00 New
                      25
                      Enrages two points:
                      1 There is no aircraft old or new, there is with or without a resource. An airplane with a resource under all regulations is exactly as safe as a new one.
                      2 Without understanding what the cause of the disaster was, many geniuses (a whole bunch of experts, including those from the State Duma) began to say that it was necessary to leave 1-3 airlines throughout the country, to close the rest ... It seems that the board banged it is these experts who would drag the air monopoly and get their own carrot out of there.

                      Gentlemen, let's first reliably find out what happened, then we will look for the guilty. And then all the specialists, already there are no words which are literate.
                      1. THE_SEAL
                        THE_SEAL 5 November 2015 13: 39 New
                        +5
                        that you need to leave 1-3 airlines for the whole country, the rest to close ..

                        What's the problem? When the state owns a controlling stake in airline companies and will indicate that it is not necessary to buy old boeing, but our new aircraft, thereby supporting our industry and solving security issues.
                        I am for keeping Aeroflot alone with the state controlling interest. And Aeroflot management placed orders for new aircraft with us, and not in the market for a supported aircraft junk where everyone was flown off.
                        And if he bought imported equipment, then it was exclusively new.
                      2. bhdir1946
                        bhdir1946 5 November 2015 18: 51 New
                        0
                        Юрий,Вы правы.Всезнающих"экспертов" развилось много.Но понимают ли они, что своим бла -бла только вредят всему и вся.
                  2. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 6 November 2015 00: 14 New
                    +2
                    Quote: APASUS

                    At the expense of nonsense

                    Yes Yes.....
                    where are we going?
                    This Baby has already been identified ... and issued a certificate .., but not about life ... I want in return a hundred lives of officials !!!
                    tears and anger smother ..., damn it !!!!!
                    1. Deniska
                      Deniska 6 November 2015 10: 28 New
                      0
                      and let’s a thousand ... they are not people !!!. Any life is VALUE !!!

                      It is necessary to understand and draw conclusions, to prevent such cases. And do not throw loud statements.
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                  4. TT62
                    TT62 6 November 2015 22: 28 New
                    0
                    Not 120%, but at least 200%
            2. Bersaglieri
              Bersaglieri 4 November 2015 22: 10 New
              +1
              А на каких типах летали "не наших" и сколько раз? Сравнивать А-32х с Ил-96- просто некорректно, однако (совсем разные категории ВС)
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 4 November 2015 22: 52 New
                +8
                Quote: Bersaglieri
                А на каких типах летали "не наших" и сколько раз?

                Believe me as a passenger I flew a lot, incl. transatlantic flights yes
                Quote: Bersaglieri
                Comparing the A-32x with the IL-96- is simply incorrect,

                I'm not just comparing, I insist on the thought that our industry can still produce all types of aircraft!
                Где теперь гамма наших ИЛюшек, ЯКов, ТУшек,а вместо них пытаются отлоббировать суппер -пууперр джет ,выдроченный левой рукой, в угоду "арбузу" и на 75 % состоящий из их комплектующих! am
                Quote: Bersaglieri
                however (completely different categories of aircraft)

                here you intentionally meant LA laughing
                1. Bersaglieri
                  Bersaglieri 7 November 2015 08: 50 New
                  0
                  Sun- Aircraft. Of. the term adopted by the GA;)

                  В качестве пассажира я на всех типах советских реактивных ВС слетать успел, кроме тех, что вывели из эксплуатации до 1977 года. Ну а из буржуинского, понятно 737/747/757/767/777 и 310/319/320/321/330 ну и мелочь всякая региональная. Так вот поэтому и задал вопрос и ожидал услышать ответ по сущству, а не "охи вздохи" ;)

                  Что насчет прмышленности- давайте подождем МС-21, посмотрим , каков он будет "в железе". Насчет того, что "может выускать"- согласен, но может быть просто это было нерентабельно? Капитализм же...техника окупать себя должна.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            3. your1970
              your1970 4 November 2015 22: 39 New
              +9
              P.3 is an old aircraft in aviation, the concept is conditional: for example, the ds-3 (Li-2) of the thirties were still flying in the 70-s (forty-year-olds) ... in the army mi-24 / mi-8 the bulk was released in the eighties . had the opportunity to fly several times on mi-6 (fifty) from Serdobsk (transport regiment) love It was felt that the old one wasn’t a wreck .. so the old one may be better than the new one and it’s incorrect to say the old one on a plane at the age of 15 years ....
              Another question is that any technique can be snatched almost instantly by lack of care or unskilled care. It’s not difficult to establish it, that’s why all the technical documentation was removed. In addition, due to the fact that the plane is not domestic, the possibility of scams with spare parts from army warehouses / repair plants is excluded. in the case of foreign sides, spare parts are brought in from abroad and declared (indicating numbers, years of manufacture, etc.). there are a lot of tracks + Airbus will now give our all the necessary information.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 4 November 2015 23: 02 New
                +6
                Quote: your1970
                Another question is that any technique can be tackled almost instantly by lack of care or unskilled care.

                this is what we are talking about !!!
                and we fly here on such rubbish from Orizona
                1. Freelancer7
                  Freelancer7 5 November 2015 00: 47 New
                  +1
                  and what - it all fits together. The logic is this:

                  scheme
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Foxmara
                Foxmara 5 November 2015 14: 01 New
                +3
                Quote: your1970
                the aircraft is not domestic, the possibility of fraud with spare parts from army warehouses / repair plants is excluded.

                oh well .. are there other capitalists ?? And they do not sell us air junk on which it is forbidden to fly over the territory of the USA at all?

                Quote: your1970
                yrbas will now give our all the necessary information.

                Oh well..
                1. your1970
                  your1970 6 November 2015 20: 26 New
                  0
                  the difference is big, take my word for it, the penny cost of illiquid assets from our ATI / repair plant warehouses is excluded ..
                  For Airbus, it is very serious if ours bought left parts with illiquid assets-it will come out right away,
            4. solar99
              solar99 5 November 2015 12: 25 New
              +2
              А у меня противоположный опыт. Летал в Шарм в 2006 году авиакомпанией "Атлант-Союз" (была такая, если помните).За пару дней до вылета случилась катастрофа Ту-154 под Донецком, что многократно усилило мои впечатления от полета в Шарм. Итак:
              1. Departure was delayed for an hour and a half (of which we spent an hour in the stuffy cabin of the aircraft).
              2. When the bus drove up to our plane (and it was Il-86), I thought that it was from a sedimentation tank - it looked so depressing. Stepping closer when landing, I was shocked by a shabby maneuver with numerous small dents in the fuselage and absolutely bald (!) Chassis tires.
              3. The salon was a no less dull sight - the chairs were of various sizes (apparently from dismantling), greasy, ragged; one third of the top shelf covers do not close; another third open during take-off.
              4. Так как мое место находилось в среднем ряду в хвостовой части, мне предстала взору картина "кручения" фюзеляжа при взлете и посадке. Периодически у меня возникало чувство, что самолет машет крыльями, но смешно от этого не становилось!
              5. The drunken contingent added a special atmosphere, but this is not related to the plane.
              6. Во время посадки шасси выпустились с таких грохотом, что возникло ощущение касания земли (было темно и сложно ориентироваться). Страшно стало, когда после этого "касания" самолет продолжил снижение!

              Для справки - "Атлант-Союз" - авиакомпания правительства Москвы; туроператор "Тез-Тур"

              Повезло, что обратный рейс был "Трансаэро" В-767. Хоть и была задержка почти 6 часов, но от этого рейса остались только приятные воспоминания (кроме звучавшего в период посадки гимна Трансаэро)))

              PS Много летал с тех пор разными авиакомпаниями и самолетами, но не встречал такого же уныния как Ил-86 "Атлант-Союз"
            5. solar99
              solar99 5 November 2015 12: 25 New
              -3
              А у меня противоположный опыт. Летал в Шарм в 2006 году авиакомпанией "Атлант-Союз" (была такая, если помните).За пару дней до вылета случилась катастрофа Ту-154 под Донецком, что многократно усилило мои впечатления от полета в Шарм. Итак:
              1. Departure was delayed for an hour and a half (of which we spent an hour in the stuffy cabin of the aircraft).
              2. When the bus drove up to our plane (and it was Il-86), I thought that it was from a sedimentation tank - it looked so depressing. Stepping closer when landing, I was shocked by a shabby maneuver with numerous small dents in the fuselage and absolutely bald (!) Chassis tires.
              3. The salon was a no less dull sight - the chairs were of various sizes (apparently from dismantling), greasy, ragged; one third of the top shelf covers do not close; another third open during take-off.
              4. Так как мое место находилось в среднем ряду в хвостовой части, мне предстала взору картина "кручения" фюзеляжа при взлете и посадке. Периодически у меня возникало чувство, что самолет машет крыльями, но смешно от этого не становилось!
              5. The drunken contingent added a special atmosphere, but this is not related to the plane.
              6. Во время посадки шасси выпустились с таких грохотом, что возникло ощущение касания земли (было темно и сложно ориентироваться). Страшно стало, когда после этого "касания" самолет продолжил снижение!

              Для справки - "Атлант-Союз" - авиакомпания правительства Москвы; туроператор "Тез-Тур"

              Повезло, что обратный рейс был "Трансаэро" В-767. Хоть и была задержка почти 6 часов, но от этого рейса остались только приятные воспоминания (кроме звучавшего в период посадки гимна Трансаэро)))

              PS Много летал с тех пор разными авиакомпаниями и самолетами, но не встречал такого же уныния как Ил-86 "Атлант-Союз"
            6. THE_SEAL
              THE_SEAL 5 November 2015 13: 31 New
              +9
              He also flew IL-96-300 to Hurghada. And for work from North Africa (Nouadhibou) on the TU-214 to Murmansk. From Murmansk to the Yak-42 to Reykjavik. The best impressions.
              When I flew on old Boeing it was really somehow uncomfortable.
              I am for the revival of our aviation. If there is a choice - to fly on our new board or on the old one (Boeing or Airbus), then I will definitely make a choice in favor of the domestic side.
            7. litus
              litus 5 November 2015 15: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: Stroporez
              PS. From my own experience with flights, I can say that it was never better to fly anything than our ILs 86-96. IMHO.

              it seems that you’ve never flown to Il, just say that. I flew on the IL-86 a / c Siberia (or Atlance Union - I do not remember). The distance to the back of the front seat was about 15 cm. I simply could not squeeze in there.
          2. Dryuya2
            Dryuya2 4 November 2015 23: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            I think we need to reduce the number of articles about the A-321 accident to VO. Stop procrastinating the same thing: no news,

            yes
            I will support, otherwise I’m dialing A-321 (news)
            and in the first three negative
        3. tomket
          tomket 4 November 2015 15: 33 New
          +5
          Quote: USSR 1971
          Yes, like no, I’ve heard they’re not appointing it already.

          Reason prevailed all the same ???
          1. severniy
            severniy 4 November 2015 16: 57 New
            +6
            Quote: tomket
            Quote: USSR 1971
            Yes, like no, I’ve heard they’re not appointing it already.

            Reason prevailed all the same ???

            Yeah .., I didn’t arrange the campaign in vain, or control of his crystal persona offends ...
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Norman_Pitkin
            Norman_Pitkin 4 November 2015 21: 49 New
            +1
            Perhaps not so much intelligence prevailed, but the reaction of Russians on the Internet!
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 4 November 2015 15: 58 New
        13
        Quote: Riv
        Shit question. Serdyukov will be engaged.

        I wanted to delete your koment, but I’ll leave it to stick more minuses to you. It will be useful to the brain.
        1. severniy
          severniy 4 November 2015 17: 03 New
          32
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Riv
          Shit question. Serdyukov will be engaged.

          I wanted to delete your koment, but I’ll leave it to stick more minuses to you. It will be useful to the brain.

          with my great respect to you .., Riv is right ... I do not agree with the writing form in the context of this article .. but the meaning ..., alas, I agree with the meaning ..., Serdyukov, Chubais, Vasilyeva, weaver, hermit ..., everyone has already forgotten about the sand clock .... who steers us ?, where is their conscience?
          ... all this is sad ...
          1. 31R-US
            31R-US 7 November 2015 13: 37 New
            0
            I’ll buy myself soon too; laughing
        2. Ahmed
          Ahmed 4 November 2015 20: 50 New
          30
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          I wanted to delete your koment ...


          А на каком собственно основании? Я не заметил что бы этот (может и не блещущий интеллектом) коммент нарушил какое либо правило сайта. Или теперь в обязанности модеров входит затыкание ртов "не подпевающим политике партии"?! No.
          Навеяло душком советских номенклатурщиков, которые считали себя "элитой над плебеями" лишь потому что им доверили рычаги власти.
          Power corrupts people with unstable principles, and therefore is contraindicated.

          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          ... but I’ll leave that to you more minuses stuck. Brains will be useful ...


          Brains will not be useful, if not a youngster - then it will not change, even if at least stopitsot stick minuses.
          Вы тут со своей "заклятой любовью к либерастам" забыли, ради чего изначально придумали "свободу слова". Даже цари помнили - крестьянин которого хотя бы изредка не выслушивают, берется за топор и вилы.
          Вам может не нравится то что он говорит, вы имеете право высказывать свое "фе", но не имеете права указывать другому что думать или что считать "правильным", с этого и начинаются гражданские войны.
          Well, the history of people does not teach - at least crack. sad
        3. The comment was deleted.
      3. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 4 November 2015 17: 04 New
        +5
        He will be the one who will then answer for everything ... And this ... does not have any responsibility for himself, although he must answer ... Sorry for the irresponsible comment ...
        Quote: Riv
        Shit question. Serdyukov will be engaged.
        1. severniy
          severniy 4 November 2015 17: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: dmi.pris
          He will be the one who will then answer for everything ... And this ... does not have any responsibility for himself, although he must answer ... Sorry for the irresponsible comment ...
          Quote: Riv
          Shit question. Serdyukov will be engaged.

          well if so ...
          1. Riv
            Riv 4 November 2015 18: 02 New
            -1
            I look: you do not like Serdyukov ... But why? After all, an old friend is better than two friends.
            1. Civil
              Civil 4 November 2015 19: 32 New
              0
              Quote: Riv
              I look: you do not like Serdyukov ... But why? After all, an old friend is better than two friends.

              Right now, you robots zaminusut - Serdyukov is a beautiful, clean person)))
            2. Foxmara
              Foxmara 5 November 2015 15: 12 New
              -1
              for what? Reforms, as it turned out, were carried out. And not for 3 years. What the Mistrals kicked him for a long time, as a result, brought income both in euros and in politics, the mistress let us down? Puncture. So what about a mistress or something? There shit in this story can’t be dug up, and it’s probably too early to draw conclusions.
      4. marinier
        marinier 4 November 2015 20: 32 New
        +5
        Dobroi vremia sutok sudar.
        Na moi vzgliad (vozmojn ja dumat fout), vi xotel ostroumni4at, no na moi vzgliad, u Vas polu4itsa strogo na-oborot.
        Zdes k mestu proiavit, solidaren met semiam jertv, virajat, soboleznovani.

        PS neuzeli ne russishe man dolzen ukazat fout russishe 4elovek. request
        1. Ahmed
          Ahmed 4 November 2015 20: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: marinier
          neuzeli ne engagement man dolzen ukazat fout engagement 4elovek.

          Schiavo? belay
      5. gunter_laux
        gunter_laux 4 November 2015 21: 07 New
        +2
        It is evident that the guano-Riv, sober, feels better ,,,
      6. go21zd45few
        go21zd45few 5 November 2015 08: 14 New
        +2
        Thanks to Pogasyan and his team for dying the domestic aviation industry,
        and our mediocre leadership for billions spent on the Pogasyanov's brainchild of a super jet. Without our base, domestic planes, we cannot survive.
        1. Riv
          Riv 5 November 2015 16: 37 New
          0
          So what am I talking about? For a long time it was necessary to appoint Serdyukov to civil aviation.
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 4 November 2015 14: 58 New
      16
      Quote: USSR 1971
      many versions

      And then the strange begins. In a matter of seconds (from 07.13.00 to 07.13.22), the vertical speed of the liner rose to 4000 feet per minute (20,3 m / s), then it fell again to 6000, but then sharply rose to 4000 feet per minute. The plane went up. But not having managed to gain the lost hundreds of meters, the liner again began to fall at a vertical speed, already 6500 feet per minute (33 m / s). And again, the fall was replaced by a sharp climb. From 07.13.15 to 07.13.19, vertical speed increased to 9000 feet per minute (45 m / s). "Airbus" went into a sharp climb, which in 07.13.22 again ended in a fall, during which, most likely, the plane began to crumble.


      ... according to many aviation specialists, the parameters issued by FlightRadar24, in these conditions, are very doubtful. And in this situation, it is impossible to draw any specific conclusions based on them!
      1. Dr dron
        Dr dron 4 November 2015 15: 45 New
        +6
        And you read what Flightradar24 says about this. Yes, they have reservations, but I would not call them completely dubious, they took data from the defendant of the aircraft, for the credibility of which they can not vouch, that’s all they say.

        http://www.flightradar24.com/blog/metrojet-9268-extended-mode-s-data-decoded/

        http://blog.hub.fr24.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/7K9268ExtModeSdecoded.c
        sv
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 4 November 2015 15: 55 New
          +6
          Quote: Dr Dron
          for the credibility of which they do not vouch

          Тут ключевое - "правдоподобность которых".
          Imagine the correctness of the data of devices and sensors in emergency mode - the power is skipping, emergency loads, and the aerometric parameters are not stable ...
          Проще гадать на "кофейной..."

          Quote: Dr Dron
          And you read that Flightradar24 itself

          ...читали, анализировали и пришли к вердикту - "делать какие-то определенные выводы основываясь на них - нельзя!"
          1. Dr dron
            Dr dron 4 November 2015 16: 16 New
            0
            But you must admit, from these data it is clear what happened before and when (t, H, V, Vy) the event occurred. What happened after-only after the results of the investigation.
          2. Just BB
            Just BB 7 November 2015 05: 56 New
            0
            I hasten to disappoint you - The power of emergency recorders is so arranged (from batteries) that the system and sensors will be powered by a stable voltage until the batteries are completely discharged.
            And sensors - that's why they are "аварийные", чтобы работать "до конца"
      2. NIKNN
        NIKNN 4 November 2015 15: 46 New
        +3
        It's true! Again, the data does not open eyes to the causes.
      3. aksakal
        aksakal 4 November 2015 22: 20 New
        +3
        Quote: Rus2012
        According to many aviation specialists, the parameters issued by FlightRadar24, in these conditions, are very doubtful. And in this situation, it is impossible to draw any specific conclusions based on them!
        - Recent posts on this subject - there was still an explosion on board. This is evidenced by the characteristic injuries of passengers. And suspicious holes in the wreckage. But there are no traces of explosives. Inclined to the version of the engine explosion. Not an expert on turbojet engines, maybe which of the flyers will enlighten? I just can’t imagine the explosion mechanism there ... Two propellers rotate against each other, creating a high pressure of incoming air, then already compressed air enters the combustion chamber, where kerosene burns. And why and how to explode even on the principle of an engine? As for the separation of the blades, I can agree - the torn blades can damage both the fuselage and the wing ...
        Even if an engine explosion due to a technical malfunction - well, I DO NOT REMEMBER such a malfunction in Soviet aircraft, in Soviet-made engines! The main causes of the crash of Soviet aircraft are the human factor, occasionally technical reasons, but what would the engine explode for ?! I repeat the main idea of ​​my last post - Medvedev for the next crash TU-154 volunteered on Soviet-made aircraft! Well, let him try not to make a mistake on Airbus, if it turns out that the engine explosion was the result of this plane crash! am And the main thing is that you will not make a mistake, you will not free the Russians from the restoration of their aircraft industry. Although the rise of the domestic aviation industry requires painstaking, hard work.
        Well, if the attack ... Well, then increase the air force in Syria and bomb twice as much! Well, at the same time, by agreement with Egypt, it was already possible to bombard the Sinai militants - this attack was definitely not without them, and if so, who is not hiding, Putin is not to blame.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 4 November 2015 22: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: aksakal
          Not an expert on turbojet engines, maybe which of the flyers will enlighten?

          SSI, Drevny and WUAs have already spoken out about this!
          and read more http://www.otr-online.ru/programmi/magomed-tolboev--46667.html
        2. THE_SEAL
          THE_SEAL 5 November 2015 13: 50 New
          0
          Quote: aksakal
          Well, if the attack ... Well, then increase the air force in Syria and bomb twice as much! Well, at the same time, by agreement with Egypt, it was already possible to bombard the Sinai militants - this attack was definitely not without them, and if so, who is not hiding, Putin is not to blame.

          Terrorists track at the border crossing. And then the beards will be shaved off and laid back to Russia. This cannot be allowed.
      4. Just BB
        Just BB 7 November 2015 05: 52 New
        0
        Try not to look at one of the measurement systems:

        vertical speed began to be equal to 6000 feet per minute or 30,48 meters per second (a negative indicator means that the plane is reduced). This was no longer a decline or a dive, but actually a fall. At this point, the A-321, having lost 5000 feet, was at an altitude of about 8600 meters (28 feet).

        It should take 5000 seconds to lose 50 feet !!!
        And then the strange begins. In a matter of seconds (from 07.13.00 to 07.13.22), the vertical speed of the liner rose to 4000 feet per minute (20,3 m / s), then it fell again to 6000, but then sharply rose to 4000 feet per minute. The plane went up. But not having managed to gain the lost hundreds of meters, the liner again began to fall at a vertical speed, already 6500 feet per minute (33 m / s). And again, the fall was replaced by a sharp climb. From 07.13.15 to 07.13.19, vertical speed increased to 9000 feet per minute (45 m / s). "Airbus" went into a sharp climb, which in 07.13.22 again ended in a fall, during which, most likely, the plane began to crumble.


        Really strange what
    3. AM10101946
      AM10101946 4 November 2015 17: 53 New
      +7
      It's a shame that the Russian Federation still has few domestically produced aircraft, and uses planes that have already worked enough and are outdated;
    4. northern
      northern 4 November 2015 18: 13 New
      +6
      The corpses have not cooled down yet, but the analysts have run up - nowhere to go.
      Дождитесь хотя бы расшифровки средств объективного контроля(а не "черных ящиков", никакие они не черные).
      1. RUSOIVAN
        RUSOIVAN 4 November 2015 19: 47 New
        0
        750 kilometers per hour (a little over 400 knots), and the vertical speed was unchanged. But at exactly 7.13 (4.13) the flight speed dropped to 170 kilometers per hour (a little over 20 knots)

        Что за "трудности перевода"?
        1. northern
          northern 4 November 2015 22: 22 New
          -1
          did you ask this question to someone?
    5. Mujahiddin777
      Mujahiddin777 4 November 2015 20: 20 New
      +2
      Long ago we fly on our own domestic. And the economy is good and a kind of sanction yes
    6. BEGA2015
      BEGA2015 5 November 2015 11: 03 New
      +1
      According to today's report by German mass media, such as NDR, with reference to British and American sources, an explosion likely occurred on board the Russian liner.
      And also DWN:
      Der Absturz der russischen Passagiermaschine über dem Sinai könnte nach Einschätzung der US-Behörden von einer Bombe der Dschihadistenmiliz Islamischer Staat (IS) verursacht worden sein. Dieses Szenario sei "sehr wahrscheinlich", sagte ein hochrangiger US-Vertreter am Mittwoch der Nachrichtenagentur AFP in Washington
      Translation: The crash of a Russian passenger liner over Sinai, according to American services, could have occurred as a result of a bomb detonation established by jihadists of the Islamic State (IS). This scenario is very likely, a senior US official told the AFP news agency in Washington on Wednesday.
      According to other German sources, the Anglo-Saxons point to 7 facts confirming this version. One of them is the analysis of telephone conversations of Egyptian airport employees during the preparation of the Russian airliner for the flight to St. Petersburg.
    7. Stas57
      Stas57 5 November 2015 23: 29 New
      0
      But Ebdo tried, s.ki
    8. shershen
      shershen 6 November 2015 09: 53 New
      +1
      I am sure that there will be no answers or guilty ones, as with Kursk.
      А ведь, наше "любимое" правительство наверняка что-то знает.
  2. Million
    Million 4 November 2015 14: 31 New
    +6
    I think that they will not tell us the truth anyway. Politics is a delicate matter.
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 4 November 2015 14: 46 New
      +4
      And I think that Russia has nothing to hide here. Any conclusion of the investigation will not be against us. In general, antagonists gathered in a group of investigators, so that they have the only way out - to sign what they actually find.
    2. alexs1833
      alexs1833 4 November 2015 18: 30 New
      0
      and where does the policy ??? board just do private.
  3. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 4 November 2015 14: 33 New
    +5
    We must wait for the results of the investigation, there is every reason to believe that it will be complete, objective and there will be no delay in time.
    For now, it’s pointless to sort through this topic.
  4. umka_
    umka_ 4 November 2015 14: 35 New
    +6
    Yes, until the thunder strikes, the Russian peasant will not cross himself. It’s time to support our aircraft industry.
    1. DIVAN SOLDIER
      DIVAN SOLDIER 4 November 2015 14: 43 New
      11
      What aircraft manufacturing ??? Outside the window is developed capitalism. A bunch of small airline companies that can’t afford the news can take junk that is worn out.
      1. Vladivostok
        Vladivostok 5 November 2015 06: 11 New
        0
        Sure sure. A large means afford? And what does Transaero have to do with it?
        Maybe the problem is that the economy is not focused on production, but on inflating financial bubbles?
  5. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 4 November 2015 14: 36 New
    +4
    The flight route of the A-321 is not correct, Ukraine has banned the flight of Russian airlines over its territory, therefore the A-321 was supposed to fly around Ukraine to the east.
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 November 2015 14: 42 New
      -4
      Is it eastward through Syria or Iraq? Have you looked at the globe?
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 4 November 2015 14: 46 New
        16
        Quote: Nikolai K
        Is it eastward through Syria or Iraq? Have you looked at the globe?

        East of Ukraine, over the Black Sea, turn towards Rostov on the Don and then over the territory of Russia, already head for St. Petersburg.
        Or do you prefer to try your luck and fly over the territory of Ukraine? Let me remind you that they have already shot down two planes (Siberia Airlines in 2001, and last year the Malaysian Boeing).
        1. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 5 November 2015 09: 11 New
          0
          And in your opinion, how else should the A321, senior lieutenant have to fly evidence?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  6. alekc73
    alekc73 4 November 2015 14: 37 New
    +5
    Decrypt the black boxes, examine the debris. They will find out the reasons, only the truth will float.
  7. 106 VDD
    106 VDD 4 November 2015 14: 40 New
    11
    Таким горе-авторам статей и псевдоэкспертам следует знать о том, что не летают сейчас над украинской территорией (лднр) наши самолеты, а летят в обход, и не рисовать таких картинок с "предполагаемым маршрутом полета" по прямой. Вот лишь бы состряпать статейку на гребне волны.
    1. Petrix
      Petrix 4 November 2015 15: 31 New
      10
      Quote: 106VDD
      Just to concoct an article on the crest of a wave

      More bloopers:
      ... continuing climb, ... and the vertical speed was unchanging.

      ... the speed of the liner rose to an indicator of 4000 feet per minute (20,3 m / s), here it again fell to 6000, but then rose sharply to 4000 feet per minute

      This is how to say: fell from a height of 4000 to 6000, and then climbed to 4000.
      1. TT62
        TT62 6 November 2015 23: 18 New
        +1
        Это вертикальная скорость в футах в минуту, интересно только получается " поднялась до 4000, тут же упала до 6000", мне кажется не упала, а выросла до 6000. " Но потом резко выросла до 4000" вот тут она (скорость) упала до 4000. Я думаю правильнее сказать так - шел с набором высоты с вертикальной скоростью 4000(20,32 м/сек), затем скорость набора высоты возросла до 6000(30,48 м/сек), потом резко уменьшилась до 4000. Журналюгам платят за количество букав, вот и стараются.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  8. Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 4 November 2015 14: 44 New
    +4
    The average age of dead planes is approaching the average age of the fleet. Enough already blame for age. On this basis, liberals already each time raise a cry that they need to borrow money and buy new planes from Airbus and Boeing.
    All foreign cars are chased for inspections at the technical centers of these two companies, and if they receive airworthiness certificates there, then the board is in order. Imagine a foreign car of a good class, all the time serviced only by a dealer and only by native spare parts. Warranty and mileage on a car less than on a plane. Thus, 18 years of an airplane is about 9 years for a car. The history of the aircraft is more important - in which hands and where it flew, how many rough landings or even tail-strikes (tail strikes on the strip on take-off or landing) he had.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 4 November 2015 16: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: armored optimist
      Enough already blame for age.

      You contradict yourself, because right there you write:
      Quote: armored optimist
      The history of the aircraft is more important - in which hands and where it flew, how many rough landings or even tail-strikes (tail strikes on the strip on take-off or landing) he had.

      I would add, it is not yet known how battered the plane is, how many times it has fallen into the turbulence zone and in thunderstorms. This does not affect the design in the best way! And the fact that he got on his tail, for some reason, the first CNN said! We do not know about this? And it is still not known why the previous owners got rid of it (and these are not rich countries!), So there was a reason, obviously they wanted something fresh! After all, they don’t refuse a good thing, if age is not an obstacle for an airplane, why should it be changed at all?
      1. Armored optimist
        Armored optimist 4 November 2015 17: 49 New
        +2
        I do not see a contradiction. 18 years as such is about nothing. Been in the hands of different baboons - it's dangerous!
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 4 November 2015 18: 39 New
          +3
          Well, what about?
          Quote: armored optimist
          The history of the aircraft is more important - in which hands and where it flew, how many rough landings or even tail-strikes (tail strikes on the strip on take-off or landing) he had.

          Your words? And the history of the aircraft and what happened to it, does not depend on the age of the aircraft?
      2. Cook
        Cook 4 November 2015 20: 10 New
        +3
        A regular leasing contract is for five years. The desire of the operator to extend it may come up against the lessor’s reluctance to do so. For many reasons, for example, due to a breach of contract by the airline. It would be naive to believe that the owner of the aircraft (lessor) is not interested in his fate, leaving everything at the mercy of the airline operating it. The owner, under the terms of the contract, has the right to hire independent inspectors who visit the airline at least once a year and check the aircraft’s operating conditions for several days. In addition, under the terms of the contract, the operator is obliged to inform the owner of all incidents related to the operation of the aircraft, as well as the implementation of all scheduled maintenance work and completed modifications.
  9. rotfuks
    rotfuks 4 November 2015 14: 50 New
    +5
    ……… .. Airbus ”went into a sharp climb, which again ended in a fall on 07.13.22/XNUMX/XNUMX, during which, most likely, the plane began to crumble ... ... .. the load on the liner that arose during its fall cannot cause structural destruction. Maybe just the opposite, the fall began after the plane crumbled. And then, doctors say that the passengers sitting in the tail of the plane were partially burned and have characteristic explosive injuries. Passengers sitting at the beginning of the cabin are not burnt at all and do not have explosive injuries.
  10. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 4 November 2015 14: 53 New
    +4
    Ну как говорится "Летайте самолетами Аэрофлота"...Хватит делать лизинги, бизнесменам!Свою гражанку авиа развалили , на старье летаем...Вот и результат!
  11. alicante11
    alicante11 4 November 2015 14: 57 New
    -4
    would lead to instant destruction of the structure and the fall of the remnants of the aircraft over a sufficiently large area, the same can be said about the use of IEDs.


    This passage crosses out the whole article. IEDs of such power to destroy an aircraft in the air is simply impossible to carry on board. It will be detected by the most lazy control and even the crew of the liner because of its size. In principle, a missile explosion will not necessarily destroy an airplane unless there is a direct hit, which is unlikely, since the principle of operation of modern anti-aircraft missiles does not imply a direct hit, but rather a defeat by flying fragments.
    It is also completely incomprehensible why the pilots who took such active measures to save the aircraft did not get in touch with the ground and did not report problems.
    1. Turbo rabbit
      Turbo rabbit 4 November 2015 15: 01 New
      +3
      Divers. Scuba gear. Fill with explosive mixture. A decent amount to check in. Ready for you IED.
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 4 November 2015 15: 57 New
        +4
        Divers. Scuba gear. Fill with explosive mixture. A decent amount to check in. Ready for you IED.


        What is TNT equivalent? How are you going to undermine? They will not give hand luggage, but they will clear the luggage and find the fuse.
      2. your1970
        your1970 4 November 2015 22: 53 New
        0
        A high-scan transmits quite easily, including cylinders. The IDC of a tractor in any projection, at least diagonally, shines through.
        The question is the human factor ...
    2. taram taramych
      taram taramych 4 November 2015 16: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: alicante11
      It is also completely incomprehensible why the pilots who took such active measures to save the aircraft did not get in touch with the ground and did not report problems.

      This is probably the main question! The key to understanding.
  12. Altona
    Altona 4 November 2015 15: 01 New
    25
    Condolences to the relatives of the dead passengers and crew, a blessed memory to the victims of the disaster itself ... A terrible tragedy ...
    1. Garris199
      Garris199 4 November 2015 16: 24 New
      +5
      God, there are no words ... I flew with my son at about the same age. But not to the muslims who were moved all over their heads, but to Bulgaria.
      For the children of all involved in the count.
      1. shershen
        shershen 6 November 2015 10: 11 New
        +1
        Сомневаюсь, что мы узнаем "причастных" когда-нибудь.
        Why didn’t they unveil the last negotiations between pilots and controllers? Is that a military secret?
        Будет интересно, если разбор чёрных ящиков "не даст результатов". И концы в воду...
  13. Mr shrek
    Mr shrek 4 November 2015 15: 05 New
    +1
    We are waiting for the decryption of black boxes, sas fortunetelling
    Condolences to the families of the dead ....
  14. Dan Slav
    Dan Slav 4 November 2015 15: 11 New
    15
    Condolences to relatives!
    In general, the question has long been raised: how to get as much information as possible about such cases? There are black boxes: with data and speech. However, they usually do not give much.
    Pilots until recently communicated normally, systems functioned within normal limits.
    That's all!
    At the same time, even after falling from such a height, ordinary smartphones and cell phones sometimes work. Even household appliances can withstand this, and if protected!
    Maybe it’s worth putting the cameras in the cockpit and in the cabin, make five or ten pieces of special flash drives for recording and place them in different places on the fuselage. Something to survive!
    Let them write the whole flight. They recorded it and drove it on landing to a server at the airport, to the owners and manufacturers of the aircraft. Shelf life at least a month, a week.
    We have had video recorders in cars for a long time, and here, amid the cost of an airplane, a technician is just a penny!
    Which plane already ends in the water! Sorry for the people!
  15. search engine
    search engine 4 November 2015 15: 12 New
    +4
    It seemed like there was an attempt to intercept the control of the aircraft from the outside. Is this possible with existing technologies?
    1. AlexTires
      AlexTires 4 November 2015 15: 29 New
      +2
      In principle, everything can be allowed, but it painfully resembles the utmost conspiracy theories ..
      1. taram taramych
        taram taramych 4 November 2015 16: 07 New
        +8
        18.06.2015 года, в вечерней программе "Вести", проскочил весьма любопытный сюжет, о хакерской атаке на "Боинг - Дремлайнер", в результате чего, последний изменил "эшелон", т.е. высоту. ФБР, спустя некоторое время, всё же вычислило и задержало, гражданина США, который заявил, что ставил целью своей акции, возможность, как можно большего привлечения внимания, к проблеме безопасности полётов.
        1. Dikson
          Dikson 4 November 2015 23: 43 New
          +1
          And he did it almost from a tablet .. But the question arises - what about the high-speed Internet from the desert of North Sinai?
    2. Petrix
      Petrix 4 November 2015 15: 36 New
      +2
      Do you think Windows will not freeze in the event of a direct confrontation with the United States? Would the United States refuse such a possibility of control? What do you think? At once the whole industry arose.
    3. miv110
      miv110 4 November 2015 15: 41 New
      0
      Читайте блог "Правосудия нет", возможно получите ответ на свой вопрос.
  16. mitrich
    mitrich 4 November 2015 15: 26 New
    12
    Еще не расшифрованы ящики, не определено точно, есть ли следы ВВ на обломках, а подобные "эксперты" уже статейки крапают. На мой взгляд, основное это, был взрыв внутри ЛА, т.е. теракт или нет. А это покажет хим анализ обломков. А черные ящики, это уже детали.
    But there will be strong opposition from Egypt, if the attack. For for them, this is a complete blow to tourism and budget revenues.
    And I know the working conditions of their security services at the airports of Hurghada and the SHES not by hearsay, I have watched many times their Arab race ... against which our Slavic fades (I like diving and my vacation, this is a dive in the Red Sea, as soon as possible - to Egypt).
    In Pulkovo, the control conditions are much higher. There is no entrance to the SHES airport, there is no inspection, control during the entrance to the gate, either. And there are no gates as such.
    Even such a shtrishk: you take something in duty-free in Pulkovo, everything is immediately sealed by the cashier in a special package. At the SHESh airport, packages like a T-shirt (they are not sealed !!) are at the checkout, if you want to take your luggage, you don’t want to not take it! request
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Proxima
    Proxima 4 November 2015 15: 31 New
    +6
    Quote: Million
    I think that they will not tell us the truth anyway. Politics is a delicate matter.

    Скажут, только чуть позже,когда эмоции у людей поутихнут. А пока можно выпустить пар на "Когалымавиа" на изношенность авиапарка и т.д. Что самое противное в этом деле, это то, что "на верху" уже всё известно, "что","как" и "почему". За 4 дня можно 10 предварительных расследований осуществить.
    1. alex74nur
      alex74nur 4 November 2015 15: 49 New
      0
      Yes, very sorry
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 4 November 2015 22: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Proxima
      Quote: Million
      I think that they will not tell us the truth anyway. Politics is a delicate matter.

      Скажут, только чуть позже,когда эмоции у людей поутихнут. А пока можно выпустить пар на "Когалымавиа" на изношенность авиапарка и т.д. Что самое противное в этом деле, это то, что "на верху" уже всё известно, "что","как" и "почему". За 4 дня можно 10 предварительных расследований осуществить.

      You're right. One thing is enough for passengers from the passenger compartment, which does not affect the investigation, especially for rags, cotton swabs in general porous materials, which will store chemicals arising from the explosion for a very long time and secretly investigate for the country's leadership.
      This study will take only a few hours along with writing a report.
      How sad it all is.
  19. Lyton
    Lyton 4 November 2015 15: 41 New
    +3
    We transfer from empty to empty, wait for the decryption of the boxes and the conclusions of the commission, I think they will collect it in detail in the hangar to the smallest detail, then we will find out the truth.
    It is very a pity for our people, especially children, but such a fate is evident, let the earth rest in peace.
  20. stayer
    stayer 4 November 2015 15: 41 New
    11
    The flight speed was approximately 750 kilometers per hour (a little over 400 knots), and the vertical speed was unchanged. But at exactly 7.13 (4.13) the flight speed dropped to 170 kilometers per hour (a little over 20 knots)

    So 20 knots is 32km / h, and 170km / h is 103 knots. Do not care when reprinting someone else's article? Or do not care what to write?
  21. alex74nur
    alex74nur 4 November 2015 15: 48 New
    +2
    Clear as daylight. Need a domestic aviation industry !! And there, the director was appointed the former Minister of Defense Serdyukov .. What should I do ???
  22. yashka12007
    yashka12007 4 November 2015 15: 50 New
    +3
    my wife flew on 10 in May. And the 321 Kogalym plane from St. Petersburg to Hurghada barely flew up and down. If this is the same plane, then the problems were then only to find out which plane was flying.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 4 November 2015 23: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: yashka12007
      my wife flew on 10 in May. And the 321 Kogalym plane from St. Petersburg to Hurghada barely flew up and down. If this is the same plane, then the problems were then only to find out which plane was flying.

      Depending on the turbulence, any aircraft is thrown. I flew once and the commander got out and warned that we were flying into a zone of very high turbulence, I asked everyone to buckle up and not worry. It shook and vibrated so that I thought the plane was about to fall apart. But, as you see, he is alive. And it was not a thunderous front, the sky was clear.
  23. AUL
    AUL 4 November 2015 16: 03 New
    +5
    Quote: СРЦ П-15
    But at exactly 7.13 (4.13) the flight speed dropped to 170 kilometers per hour (a little over 20 knots)

    Does the author know what the node is equal to?

    SRC P-15
    I think we need to reduce the number of articles about the A-321 accident to VO. Stop procrastinating one and the same thing: no news whatsoever, and all the time to list speculations and guesses - the truth does not add to this disaster.

    Действительно, посты предельно малоинформативные, сплошное "вероятно", "может быть", "не исключено" и тд. Абы статейкой отметиться.
  24. jesus045
    jesus045 4 November 2015 16: 09 New
    -1
    No one worked out a version of the impact of laser weapons on an airplane? Satellites in America recorded flashes, how did they know that there should be flashes, or maybe they checked the accuracy and visibility of the application?
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 4 November 2015 23: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: jesus045
      No one worked out a version of the impact of laser weapons on an airplane? Satellites in America recorded flashes, how did they know that there should be flashes, or maybe they checked the accuracy and visibility of the application?

      You are not thinking right. This zone is of high Islamic activity. Satellites constantly monitor and shoot everything in a row, as in Ukraine. Why do you think they do not show this zone of Ukraine - they are afraid to show the truth.
  25. BNM
    BNM 4 November 2015 16: 18 New
    0
    Quote: Mr Shrek
    We are waiting for the decryption of black boxes, sas fortunetelling
    Condolences to the families of the dead ....

    But what's the point of waiting, one FIG will say how profitable they are sad
    1. alexs1833
      alexs1833 4 November 2015 18: 36 New
      +1
      to whom they ??? finish off such komenty. tell me who is beneficial to hide the cause of the disaster ??
      1. venaya
        venaya 5 November 2015 00: 34 New
        0
        Quote: alexs1833
        ... tell me, who benefits from hiding the cause of the disaster ??

        First of all, those who organized this crash.
  26. AUL
    AUL 4 November 2015 16: 31 New
    +1
    In my previous comment, the quote passed, as from the SR-P-15. Sorry, the technical overlay turned out! Quote from the article!
  27. Alexander_
    Alexander_ 4 November 2015 16: 33 New
    +1
    "подъем отечественного авиапрома требует кропотливой, тяжелой работы"

    What nonsense, why heavy? Hands to lift multi-pound weights? There is nothing difficult in a normally organized work.
    1. your1970
      your1970 4 November 2015 23: 00 New
      0
      According to the list: there are no personnel, there are no designers, there are no young workers, there is almost no new machinery, orders are not expensive, old models are not allowed to go abroad, and so on ...
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. Dr dron
    Dr dron 4 November 2015 16: 37 New
    +4
    Quote: stayer
    The flight speed was approximately 750 kilometers per hour (a little over 400 knots), and the vertical speed was unchanged. But at exactly 7.13 (4.13) the flight speed dropped to 170 kilometers per hour (a little over 20 knots)

    So 20 knots is 32km / h, and 170km / h is 103 knots. Do not care when reprinting someone else's article? Or do not care what to write?


    You do not have accuracy either.
    20 knots (kts) = 37 km / h
    170 km / h = 92 knots

    But, I respect people, for the ability to think analytically.
    1. stayer
      stayer 4 November 2015 21: 21 New
      +1
      Yes exactly. I multiplied something by 1.6 by a vskidka, but it was necessary by 1.852. But the essence does not change.
  30. AlexSam
    AlexSam 4 November 2015 16: 45 New
    +2
    об авиакатострофе в Учкудуке в 1985 году подробно читал в газете "Авторевю" года два назад... "Авторевю" казалось бы не при чем, но часто устраивают исторические экскурсы по местам своих экспедиций... так вот, причиной аварии в 1985-м стал выход самолета на запредельные режимы набора высоты вместо выравнивания и планирования, Ту-154 это позволяет, прекрасный планер... итог - сваливание в штопор и падение... пересказал возможно неточно, время прошло, кому интересно найдет, материал показательный и поучительный... статья очень напомнила тот материал...

    PS. I found an article http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=133717&SECTION_I
    D = 7548
  31. chester9
    chester9 4 November 2015 16: 58 New
    16
    He flew both with a carcass and Boeing ... don’t say that it’s more pleasant at Boeing ... although you can take the same yak 42 wing area 1,5 times more than that of a Boeing ... and he can land on only one out of three engines ))) what? pissed off our aircraft? Now we give colossal grandmas to Europe and America? the riveter collector himself, I know what a plant is ... there would be fewer estates for managers, you look and would fly without wrinkles on your face. Take the same IL-62. as a child, Vladivostok Moscow flew on it. Our equipment is adapted to our own conditions! Well, the same applies to cars))) Draw conclusions ladies and gentlemen. but the fact that you write here is just a prelude, no one wants to raise the industry, everyone only has grandmas on their mind !!!
  32. gladcu2
    gladcu2 4 November 2015 17: 01 New
    -1
    As soon as I saw the animated film on the first day, I immediately realized that the elevators.

    Who flies to Worthunder?

    When rudders are destroyed, and they are jammed for climbing, for climbing, the behavior of the aircraft is exactly the same.

    There is a climb. In order not to lose speed, the pilot turns the plane to the top with a belly. Panic in the cabin, a change in balance, a change in alignment, center of gravity. Then a set of speed. Again a horizontal turn and climb. Loss of speed. Transition to parachuting, vertical corkscrew.
  33. chester9
    chester9 4 November 2015 17: 01 New
    +3
    Quote: Alexander_
    "подъем отечественного авиапрома требует кропотливой, тяжелой работы"

    What nonsense, why heavy? Hands to lift multi-pound weights? There is nothing difficult in a normally organized work.

    in fact, it’s hard to raise the aviation industry right now, since everything is fucked up ... the patriots in leaders are needed, but as I wrote above, everyone only needs grandmas (
  34. chester9
    chester9 4 November 2015 17: 04 New
    +3
    and the decryption of black boxes, according to Russian laws, no one will see in the media))) read the crash of a Boeing in Kazan, it is clearly stated there))))
  35. roskot
    roskot 4 November 2015 17: 05 New
    +1
    One thing is clear - wait for the official results. Fortunately, there we are, and the Egyptians and the French, the Dutch and the Irish. And no one wants to be extreme.
  36. Vovanfalcon
    Vovanfalcon 4 November 2015 17: 11 New
    +1
    Автор, не кормите меня "кашей" насильно....особенно про возраст ВС.
  37. Dezinto
    Dezinto 4 November 2015 17: 16 New
    +1
    Perhaps it will soon become the official version:

    As a result of the decryption of the black box, the cause of the crash of the Airbus A321 was established. Data from flight recorders confirm the fact of a technical malfunction in the aircraft. Namely, that a fire occurred in the engine, which led to an explosion. About this writes the Egyptian publication Almasryalyoum.

    An explosion in the engine could cause the crash of the Russian A321 airliner, Arab media reported.

    Original news RT in Russian:
    https://russian.rt.com/article/127861
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 4 November 2015 20: 14 New
      +2
      Dezinto

      The pilot had a second engine.

      But by the nature of the flight, it can be assumed only at elevators. Well, at the same time elevators and engine, too much at once.

      At A-321, if you look at the photo of the aircraft, the tail plumage is low. In particular elevators. And when taking off, it is possible to hook the fuselage, elevators for the runway.

      As a version, only.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 4 November 2015 20: 36 New
        +7
        Quote: gladcu2
        The pilot had a second engine.

        like that ...
        Моя маленькая Дочь весь перелёт спрашивала:"папа почему это бочка постоянно летит с нами", а я шутил , что будет очень плохо, если эта бочка лететь с нами не будет....
        На фото мотор Ролс-Ройс...А когда смотрели на крыло то было видно как "вибрируют " заклёпки.
        Точно не вспомню , но по-моему это компания FLy, либо Трансаэро, по окрасу скорее "транс"
        Under the wing just Sinai ....
      2. The comment was deleted.
  38. chester9
    chester9 4 November 2015 17: 18 New
    +4
    Quote: gladcu2
    As soon as I saw the animated film on the first day, I immediately realized that the elevators.

    Who flies to Worthunder?

    When rudders are destroyed, and they are jammed for climbing, for climbing, the behavior of the aircraft is exactly the same.

    There is a climb. In order not to lose speed, the pilot turns the plane to the top with a belly. Panic in the cabin, a change in balance, a change in alignment, center of gravity. Then a set of speed. Again a horizontal turn and climb. Loss of speed. Transition to parachuting, vertical corkscrew.

    in, this is how we live in games))) and where is life?
    1. Vovanfalcon
      Vovanfalcon 4 November 2015 17: 28 New
      +2
      Well, well .... keep playing, it's true .....
    2. gladcu2
      gladcu2 4 November 2015 20: 07 New
      -4
      chester9

      Вы удивитесь. Но игры "нам строить и жить помагают". Из песни слов не выкинеш.
    3. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 4 November 2015 20: 50 New
      +9
      Quote: chester9
      and where is life?

      Here is a plane from life and for, a car of all time
      Ilya!
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 4 November 2015 20: 57 New
        +5
        The horizontal tail of the IL-96-300 is kept the same as that of the IL-86, and the area of ​​vertical tail has increased due to an increase in its height by 1,5 m compared to the IL-86. The need to increase the area of ​​vertical tail is due to the requirement to ensure directional stability in case of failure of one engine.

        Based on extensive research and experimental work for the IL-96-300, a large elongation wing with supercritical profiles and with vertical tips that increase its aerodynamic quality was designed.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  39. gladcu2
    gladcu2 4 November 2015 17: 23 New
    -5
    The pilot, fought and did everything right. On the second coup, his stomach had to go to the top, the height allowed. Then, with a decrease in altitude and a drop in speed, it was possible to level the plane with engine thrust but at an altitude of about 3 km. At this altitude, the engines could level the plane. But he did not go to the second somersault. And he extinguished the speed of 6000 m. And the engines did not pull. Speed ​​dropped below critical.

    Apparently panic in the cabin influenced the decision.

    In other words, the engines were normal. Something with elevators. Either the external effect, or internal, or the consequences of the aircraft touching the runway with the rear fuselage honor.

    The only rescuers noted the destruction of the aircraft in the air. Most likely, a vertical corkscrew from a height of 6000 m and destroyed a passenger plane not intended for such overloads.
    1. roman_pilot
      roman_pilot 4 November 2015 20: 49 New
      +3
      Play further in your warthunder, do not disgrace.
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 4 November 2015 23: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: gladcu2
      Apparently panic in the cabin influenced the decision.

      When the pilots make a decision about the coups, no one is looking at the panic. The main thing is to level the flight of the plane and, if possible, land. And what the passengers get up to at this moment do not care. They will be alive, then they themselves will say thanks and will be friends with families.
  40. guzik007
    guzik007 4 November 2015 17: 26 New
    0
    And then the strange begins. In a matter of seconds (from 07.13.00 to 07.13.22), the vertical speed of the liner RISED to the rate of 4000 feet per minute (20,3 m / s), here it again fell to 6000, but then rose sharply to 4000 feet per minute.

    Yeah, really weird ...
    I bring my condolences to the family and friends.
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 4 November 2015 18: 29 New
      +3
      guzik007

      This is not strange. This is predictable.

      When the elevators wedge, let’s say for climb, the plane cannot conduct a horizontal flight, it pulls up. But with critical climb needles, speed begins to drop. At high altitude, the speed should be 600 km per hour for a stable flight. But the engines do not pull on a large one, due to rarefied air. With a bruise, and such an error is all the more likely the plane is higher, with an error by manipulating the engine's thrust, the only way to gain speed is to turn the aircraft upside down. Gain speed, align it horizontally. So the pilot did up to 6000 m. Then he went up a sharp rise, the elevators then on the rise and speed. He extinguished the speed and began to play with engine thrust, balancing the plane horizontally. Apparently the balance of the aircraft was broken by the panic of passengers, then he critically lost speed and broke into his last tailspin.

      This is only a version of the event with modeling on a fly simulator.
      1. 26rus
        26rus 4 November 2015 22: 37 New
        +2
        Listen, you got your nonsense about coups upside down. Have you ever seen a passenger plane live?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. gladcu2
          gladcu2 5 November 2015 00: 05 New
          0
          26rus

          This technique is called a barrel. There is the concept of a blurred barrel, a larger radius of rotation. How could and explained.

          Unfortunately, this is the only way to maintain control of the aircraft with damage to the elevator, when engines cannot create traction in rarefied air.
          This is only an assumption based on a change in aircraft altitude.

          I apologize for the importunity.
          1. Kamchatsky
            Kamchatsky 5 November 2015 14: 39 New
            +1
            Из всех советских самолётов только у Як-40 в РЛЭ (Руководство по лётной эксплуатации) был прописан режим выполнения бочки, вернее пилот обязан был "докрутить" бочку при забросе по крену. Все остальные типы просто развалятся от нагрузок при выполнении "бочки".
        3. Ahmed
          Ahmed 5 November 2015 00: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: 26rus
          Listen, you got your nonsense about coups upside down. Have you ever seen a passenger plane live?


        4. The comment was deleted.
  41. midshipman
    midshipman 4 November 2015 17: 44 New
    26
    Уважаемые читатели "ВО", за мою жизнь по созданию авиационной техники неоднократно приходилось участвовать и в расследования авиационных происшествий. Как боевых самолетов так и аэрофлота. Когда разваливался СССР, мы просили не создавать частные авиакомпании. Мой Министр Плешаков П.С. умер, Шимко В.И. не сумел вместе с Зайковым Л.Н. предотвратить этот шабаш. Мы знали, что наши враги, чтобы разрушить нашу страну, будут действовать по всем направлениям. Для частных компаний они практически бесплатно подсунут нашим предпринимателям авиационный хлам. Так и вышло. Свою авиационную, радио и электронную промышленность загубили. Загубили и свой народ. Вот итог деятельности горбачева со своими соратниками и Алкаша Всея Руси.
    Я думаю данный самолет погиб из-за дефекта хвостовой части его. Такие случаи были в практике. Это только в песне пелось: "Я лечу ковыляя во мгле на честном слове и на одном крыле..." Правда в Ахтубинске удавалось сажать самолеты с большими повреждениями, но это были боевые ЛА. Честь имею.
  42. Bishop
    Bishop 4 November 2015 17: 49 New
    +2
    I watched OTR with a test show with test pilot Magomed Tolboev dedicated to this plane crash. Anyone interested in this is the link: http://www.otr-online.ru/programmi/magomed-tolboev--46667.html
  43. rotfuks
    rotfuks 4 November 2015 17: 53 New
    +4
    Again, a plane in a corkscrew, falling chaotically, does not fall apart in the air. In 2006, it crashed while trying to fly around a thunderstorm TU-154 near Donetsk. From the train of 10000 he fell to the ground whole and crumbled from a blow to the ground. And then the airbus crumbled in the air.
  44. Spartakv
    Spartakv 4 November 2015 17: 56 New
    +3
    The first is the owners of the Turks and two Dagestanis!
    The second is not Russian registration!
    Third - leapfrog with a change of ownership (although in fact re-registration).
    And the saddest thing is the virtual absence of state control and supervision of aviation and flights. (as for the river and probably the navy - a tragedy on the Volga from the same list).
  45. chester9
    chester9 4 November 2015 18: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: SpartakV
    The first is the owners of the Turks and two Dagestanis!
    The second is not Russian registration!
    Third - leapfrog with a change of ownership (although in fact re-registration).
    And the saddest thing is the virtual absence of state control and supervision of aviation and flights. (as for the river and probably the navy - a tragedy on the Volga from the same list).

    не говори чего не знаешь, хоть у нас в России и все продается, но борта проверяют и довольно часто. Даже если он имеет регистрацию на бермудах(а что часто бывает с импортными самолетами) инспектор тоже "импортный"... а таких практически тяжко купить... не сей смуту в росавиации, за такие борта как раз в ответе эти "импортные" инспекции ну и хозяева бортов!. На такие борта родная госструктура не может протянуть лапы, т к есть кому там лапу тянуть.... опять же, надо свое строить и следить, инспектировать и эксплуатировать
  46. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 4 November 2015 18: 15 New
    +2
    Versions, versions, versions, chatting all and sundry !!! The situation with the plane crashed under the Perm-Sea version, but as a result, the drunken pilots did not understand where the earth is, where the sky is drunk. We will wait for the official report of the commission !!!
    1. rotfuks
      rotfuks 4 November 2015 23: 50 New
      +1
      Pilots in zyuzy is a version for magazines. There were many oddities in the Perm crash. For example, the lack of fuselage residues. The liner there plowed right along the railway tracks and disappeared. One businessman from the investigators said that the plane dived under the rails there. Yeah, the sleepers remained intact, and the rail was damaged only one, and the liner disappeared.
  47. Taygerus
    Taygerus 4 November 2015 18: 25 New
    0
    Quote: Riv
    Shit question. Serdyukov will be engaged.

    you are stupid person
  48. Kornilovets
    Kornilovets 4 November 2015 18: 48 New
    +1
    "Партнер" - Петя.

    Ukraine has withdrawn from an agreement with Russia on mutual information on the export of MANPADS

    Как сообщило информационное агентство "Українські Новини", кабинет Министров Украины прекратил действие соглашения с Россией об обмене информацией о переносных зенитных ракетных комплексах типа "Игла" и "Стрела" при осуществлении их экспорта в третьи страны или импорта из третьих стран. Об этом говорится в постановлении №857 от 28 октября.

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has been instructed to notify the Russian government of the termination of this agreement. The agreement was signed on May 22, 2009 in Kiev.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
  49. Awaz
    Awaz 4 November 2015 18: 50 New
    0
    I remembered the plane crash a couple of years ago in Kazan. There was a similar situation along the way. At first, the plane soared sharply upwards and then vertically swung into the ground. Everything is somehow suspicious if the same thing happened here as in Kazan.
  50. dog1965
    dog1965 4 November 2015 18: 52 New
    +2
    There is such a transfer to the Air Force - according to aircraft crash reports - reconstruction of the last flight. So there just once riveted rivets in the tail of the plane and it (the tail) almost completely collapsed and the airbus immediately collapsed. If this aircraft was said to have hit the tail with the tail on the ground, then there is a high probability that the liner will be destroyed in flight — almost instantly breaking the cabin end, depressurization and falling. And the Egyptians about the engine explosion apparently are not quite right. One engine will make it possible to continue the flight. True, in the same article they said that both engines were destroyed, but this is hardly possible.