Military Review

Russian fortresses on the protection of the Kazakhs

124



October 10 The 1731 of the year with the signing of a certificate on the voluntary entry of Western Kazakhstan (Younger Zhuz) into the Russian state for many centuries, until the notorious Belovezhskaya meeting, determined the unity and common fate of the Kazakhs with the Russian and other peoples of Russia.

This event contributed to the rise of the economy and culture of Kazakhstan, the cessation of feudal civil strife there. It also ensured the external security of the Kazakh lands and rescued the Kazakhs from the enslavement of the Dzungarian military feudal state and the Manchu-Chinese empire of Qing. The Kazakh Khanate was formed at the end of the XV century. It was divided into three zhuz (regions): Elder (Semirechye), Medium (Central, Northern and partially East. Kazakhstan) and Minor (Western Kazakhstan). In the 1726 year, in an atmosphere of internecine struggle and intensified aggression against Kazakhstan by Dzungaria, one of the Kazakh rulers, Khan Abdulhayr, on behalf of the Younger Zhuz, applied to the Russian government for admission to citizenship. In 1731, this request was granted. In the 30-40 of the 18th century, most of the Middle Zhuz and some lands of the Elder joined Russia. In the sixties of the XIX century. Kazakhstan’s voluntary entry into the Russian state has ended.

An important role in the protection of the Kazakh cattle-breeding tribes and their possessions was played in 40 — 60 of the 18th century: Russian military defensive points, especially the Yamyshevskaya fortress (founded in 1716), Zhelezinskaya (in 1717), Semipalatinsk (in 1718) .), Ust-Kamenogorsk (in 1720), Bukhtarma (in 1761) and others. One of the main tasks of the border fortifications was to prevent the conquest of the Russian and Kazakh lands by the Dzungar Khanate, and later by the Chinas China. The Kazakhs were given all possible support in the fight against foreign invasions. The fortresses were at the same time the supporting bases of the Russian state for the expansion of trade relations with the nomads and the spread of Russian influence among them. Further construction of military defensive points in the southwestern part of Siberia, at the junction of Russia and Kazakhstan, was largely determined by the state of Russian-Dzungarian and Kazakh-Dzungarian relations, as well as by the situation in the areas bordering on China. It should be noted that the Chinese authorities sought to exacerbate the situation in this region of Central Asia with the help of all sorts of intrigues and to prevent rapprochement between Russia and Dzungaria.

The most devastating raids on the Kazakh lands were made by the troops of the Dzungarian juntai-ji (Khan) Galdan-Tseren in 1738-1741. Having invaded the Middle Zhuz and made a pogrom in the Kazakh auls, which was terrible in its consequences, they pursued the fleeing inhabitants to the Orsk fortress itself. Decisive actions of the Russian military administration in defense of the Kazakhs, who accepted Russian citizenship, forced the Dzungars to retreat. After that, the requirements for the border service were significantly increased in terms of more timely information and notification of all aggressive actions of the Dzungar troops. Thus, in the prescription of the head of the Siberian provincial office P. Buturlin, the commandants of the fortified border points indicated:

In the forties of the 18th century, Siberian border authorities took steps to further strengthen the defensive lines. For example, on the western bank of the Irtysh, the construction of outposts of Bolsheretsky, Inberiysky, Beterinsky, somewhat later than Vorovskiy, Verblyuzhsky and others began. In the autumn of 1741, Cossack patrols were sent from Tara to the west, and then the garrison was strengthened in the city itself.

Russian fortresses on the protection of the Kazakhs


20 May 1742, the Senate made a special decision on measures to protect the Kazakh population and the defense of the border areas from the Dzungars. It was envisaged, in particular, to increase the number of troops at all border points, which should have been "subjects of the khans and sultans with their people, how much can be protected." In the same year, a special embassy was sent to Dzungaria with the task of explaining to the Khan authorities the current situation in Kazakhstan in connection with its entry into the Russian state. It was also prescribed to declare Galdan-Tseren, "so that, being known about the citizenship of the Kazakhs, he would not cause more ruin to them and not send his troops to them." The result was the release from captivity of the Russian subject Sultan A6lay captured before this Dzungars during their invasion of the Middle Juz at the beginning of 1742 of the year. An agreement was reached on some restriction of the Dzungar claims against the Kazakhs of this zhuz (the Kazakh population was exempted from paying tribute to the Dzungarian khan).

However, the situation in the regions bordering Dzungaria remained restless. Western Mongols, the Oirats, who arrived there in 1744, reported on the intentions of Galdan-Tseren to send troops to Ust-Kamenogorsk, Semipalatinsk fortresses and to Kolyvan plants. Indeed, a ruinous raid by the Oirat detachments on the Altai mines soon occurred. Militant neighbors knew about the small number of Russian troops in the border areas, which explains their bold attacks.



Given the current situation, the Russian government ordered the head of the Orenburg Commission, I.I. Neplyuevu, send to Siberia "at the most extreme speed" three dragoon regiments. They were transferred to border areas and other military units, and measures were taken to strengthen the fortresses on the Upper Irtysh. The overall command of the frontier troops was entrusted to Major General I.V. Kinderman. The measures taken contributed to ensuring the security of Western Siberia and Kazakhstan, and opened up new opportunities for the development of economic ties and trade between Kazakhs and Russians. This was well understood by the Kazakh population. One of the sultans of the Middle Zhuz, Barak, during negotiations with the Dzungarian ambassadors who tried to turn him against Russia, said that there were no offenses and noises from the construction of Russian fortresses and from the Russian people, but only benefit.

It is known that the protection of the Kazakhs from the Jungar aggression was carried out by the Russian government without the use of military force. Both sides, Russia and Dzungaria, avoided open armed conflicts, preferring to settle the often arising disputes through peaceful negotiations. The Dzungar rulers themselves sometimes even sought the support of the Russian authorities and their help in connection with the growing threat from Qing China.

An important role in strengthening the position of Russia on the Central Asian borders was played by the successful economic development by the Russian people of Southern Siberia, including Altai and the Irtysh region.

The significance of Russian fortresses in the development of Russian-Kazakh relations and in protecting the Kazakhs from external invasions increased especially after the defeat of the Dzungarian state by the Qing forces, who at the beginning of 1755, by order of Emperor Qianlong within two Chinese armies, invaded the Khanate. The Chinese mercilessly dealt with the Dzungars, "betraying them to fire and sword." Many prisoners sold into slavery. Several thousand Dzungarian families fled to the Volga to their tribesmen - the Volga Kalmyks.



The Russian government took measures to prevent the Chinese from entering the border areas where Kazakh and other tribes were roaming. At this critical moment, the defense of the Siberian mining enterprises and the protection of citizens of Russia, including the Kazakhs, was entrusted to the Siberian governor V.A. Myatleva. Under his leadership, additional fortified points were built, new officers were recruited to serve in the military guard patrol service. In order to replenish the garrisons of the South-Siberian fortresses in 1763-1764, several horse and foot troops from the Old Believers were formed. They sent them to the disposal of the commandant of Ust-Kamenogorsk fortress for service. A significant number of Don Cossacks and up to 150 exiled Cossacks were transferred to the Siberian defensive line.

Part of the oppressed Chinese Dzungar was forced to flee to the Russian border fortifications. A lot of them, coming to Yamyshevskaya, Semipalatinsk, Ust-Kamenogorsk and other fortresses and redoubts, sought to gain Russian citizenship and, thus, to avoid the bloody reprisals of troops and clashes with the Kazakh militia. At that time, many Kazakhs were fully justified in their desire to avenge the Dzungars because of robbery in previous years.

Voluntary acceptance of a part of the Oirat tribes of Russian citizenship occurred before the defeat of Dzungaria, as early as the forties of the 18th century. Now they flocked to the border fortifications. In July and September 1756, the Siberian governor V.A. Myatlev informed the Foreign Affairs Collegium that a large number of the Dzungars pursued by the Chinese had sought refuge in Russian steppe fortifications.

Ust-Kamenogorsk, Semipalatinsk, Yamysheaskaya and other fortresses became the points at which, as a rule, the Dzungars took the oath of Russian citizenship. 7 August 1758, Siberian Governor-General F.I. Soymonov told the State Collegium about taking Kalmyk refugees among the 5187 people and about twenty thousand different cattle under the high sovereign’s hand. Some of these people were settled in border fortresses. At the same time, they came to the Semipalatinsk fortress to ask for the Russian citizenship of 6 from the Tauta (Kalmyk) khans: Zaman, Manut, Sheereng, Uryanhai, Norbo-Ciryk and Lousant.

Even Amursana, who dreamed of being the sole ruler of the Dzungarian Khanate, suffered a series of defeats, 27 June 1757, fled with his people to the Semipalatinsk fortress and asked for refuge, fearing reprisals from the Chinese. His request was granted.

Tsins repeatedly attempted to punish the Kalmyks who voluntarily accepted Russian citizenship. Thus, in July 1758, a detachment of Chinese suddenly appeared under the walls of the Ust-Kamenogorsk fortress, who, churning weapons, solicited the return of Dzhungar refugees. The commandants of the fortresses of such demands tsin answered with a decisive refusal. Thus, the Dzungars, who not long ago demanded the destruction of the fortresses on the Eastern border of Russia and Kazakhstan, after the aggression of the Qing Empire, were forced to seek salvation outside their walls. The aspiration of many peoples of Central Asia, in particular the Dzungars, to accept Russian citizenship caused opposition from the Chinese government, which organized pressure and tried to intimidate those who intended to go under the auspices of Russia.



In the middle of 1758, the once-powerful Central Asian state of Dzungaria ceased to exist. It was forcibly turned into a Chinese imperial governorship - Xinjiang (new frontier), aimed primarily against Kazakhstan. It is noteworthy that the Oirat (Dzungarian) state, which blocked the way of the Manchu-Chinese expansion in the north-west of Central Asia, was literally wiped out by the conquerors from the face of the earth. This kind of cruelty is not often met in stories humanity, although the Qing government persistently tried to present the defeat of the Dzungarian Khanate as a peaceful action against the rioters.

At that time, the Kazakhs did not have sufficient force to organize repulse to the Manchu-Chinese armies, although there were cases when Kazakh militia tried to organize resistance to the aggressors, but were defeated. Meanwhile, the Qing power, having taken Dzungaria and East Turkestan into its hands, sought not only to keep these lands under its power, but also to push the Kazakhs away from Xinjiang. There was also a real threat to the Russian possessions in the Altai. All this gave rise to a series of measures by the Russian government to further strengthen the defense of a vast region.

In 1760, the commandants of the Upper Irtysh and other fortifications were ordered to take the Russian troops from Ust-Kamenogorsk fortress to Lake Teletskoye inclusive. In 1763, Lieutenant-General I.I. was sent to Western Siberia to execute this order. Springer He had to solve on the spot issues of protecting the eastern possessions of Russia from possible invasions of the Chinese. In the same year, the Bukhtarma fortress was founded at the mouth of the river Bukhtarma, which completed the creation of the Irtysh defensive line. It, like other defensive lines in the south of Siberia, also included Russian agricultural settlements, which created favorable conditions for economic activity, both Russians and Kazakhs.



In conclusion, it should be noted that the Yamyshevskaya, Ust-Kamenogorsk, Semipalatinsk, Bukhtarma and other Russian military defensive points, built during the development of the south-western regions of Siberia in the 18th century, played an important role in protecting the Kazakhs from seizing Dzungaria and then Ching China . The advantage of their location, the presence of artillery and regular military units forced aggressive neighbors to refrain from direct hostilities in border areas.

But the defensive points contributed to the acceleration of the voluntary entry of Kazakhstan into Russia - a historical process that was important for the quiet life and development of the Kazakh people.

Sources:
Zlatkin I. History of the Dzungarian Khanate 1635-1758. M .: Science, 1983. C. 235-241.
Gurevich B. International Relations in Central Asia in the XVII - First Half of the XIX Centuries M., Science, 1979, p. 76-78.
Z. Kasymbaev. To the 250 anniversary of the voluntary entry of Kazakhstan into Russia // Military-Historical Journal. 1981. No.1. C. 71-76.
Toropitsyn I.V.N.Tatischev and I.I. Neplyuev: two approaches to the development of the Russian-Kazakh border trade. 1744 g. // Historical archive. 2009. No. 1. C. 188-198.
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  1. V.ic
    V.ic 16 September 2015 07: 08 New
    +5
    How much good the Kalmyks did not do - all the same, with the Nazis, they were “idolizing” in the Great Patriotic War. The Russian fortresses mentioned in the article are now cities of non-dependent Kazakhstan. Well, damn it, the "colonialists" ... They built, saved, defended the locals, now it seems that they are not enemies of the ethnic locals, but all the same centuries of joint life of the former "fraternal" peoples are deleted by the local national democrats from the memory of the "titular" population.
    1. vrach
      vrach 16 September 2015 08: 31 New
      +12
      By the way, Kalmyks are the only surviving descendants of Dzungar. As for the Kazakhs, the Panfilov Division (in fact, Alma-Ata) returned the debt.
      Kazakhstan was the last to leave the USSR and declared its independence, thanks to Yeltsin for that.
      Everything happens, in a family with a black sheep, but relations between Russia and Kazakhstan are now the most acceptable and real economic mutual aid is and works. We will continue to see. The author would have to place the map of the fortress lines.
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 28 New
        +11
        ... and two more divisions formed in Kazakhstan, in the Sinyavsky swamps, were completely killed during the defense of Leningrad ...
        My parents, when they were in graduate school in Leningrad, participated in the installation of a monument to those soldiers near Leningrad ... I saw pictures: overgrown trenches, machine gun trunks, helmets, sleeves, mines, soles of German boots (doesn’t it take time?). ..
        1. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 16 September 2015 11: 45 New
          0
          Aposlya "... and two more divisions formed in Kazakhstan, were completely killed in the Sinyavsky swamps during the defense of Leningrad ..."
          I previously gave a list of parts in which most were Kazakhs.
          1. Aposlya
            Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 55 New
            +3
            mmm ... when?
            Recently I came across material about the 106th Cavalry Akmola Division: http://rus.azattyq.org/content/makka_karazhanova_kazakh_division_106_war/2409328
            2.html

            in short, she died near Kharkov in the 42nd year, almost sent sabers to tanks ... sad ...
            1. Nagaibak
              Nagaibak 16 September 2015 12: 01 New
              +7
              So I supplemented.
              kingoff "Z87" Perekop Infantry Division, 72th Infantry Division, 27th Guards Novoburg Order of B. Khmelnitsky Infantry Division, 310 Novgorod Order of Lenin Red Banner Infantry Division, 130 Taganrog Order of Lenin and Suvorov Infantry Division, 150th Infantry Division, 73 Guard Riga Red Banner Rifle Division, 30 Rifle Division, 312 Rifle Division, 314 Rifle Division, 368 Guards Rifle Division, 8, 100, 101 national rifle brigades, 102, 105 national cavalry divisions, 106 marching automobile battalion. "
              Supplement.))) Can be repeated.))))
              "1) 8 sd June 1941 - many Kazakhs. 45 sd,
              2) 62 And June 1941 20% of Kazakhs.
              3) 93 SD, 41 A September 1942 50% of the birth of 1902-1912, a lot of fines and prisoners of the Gulag. 4) 126 sd of the 2nd form. May 1943 75% of Uzbeks, Tatars, Kazakhs.
              5) 162 cd, 65 A 3rd form. February 1944 35% of Kazakhs.
              6) 195 cd Volga October 1941 50% of the Kazakhs were disbanded in December 1941.
              7) 196 cd Ural 2nd form. January 1942. 80% of Kazakhs.
              8) 204 SD, Far East November 1941 95% of Kazakhs and Uzbeks. (78 Guards SD March 1943)
              9) 206 sd 27 A 2nd form July 1944- 80% of Kazakhs.
              10) 212 SD Ural August 1942 from Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tatars and Ukrainians (born 1899-1923) disbanded December 1942.
              11) 252 sd 24 A (2nd form) August 1942 60% of the Yakuts, 40% of the Russians. January 1943 50% of Kazakhs and Uzbeks, 50% of Yakuts and Russians.
              12) 310 sd June 1941 in the main Kazakhs.
              13) 312 sd July 1941 in the main Kazakhs.
              14) 316 with 16 And ​​October 1941 90% of Kazakhs and Kyrgyz 10% of Russians.
              15.) 316 SD 66A (2nd form.) July 1942 95% of Kyrgyz and Kazakhs do not speak Russian well, mainly 35-50 years of disbandment in November 1942.
              16) 387 sd 61st And November 1941. In the main Kazakhs.
              17). 391 sd, 61 And September 1941, in the main. Kazakhs.
              18) 8th Guards SD, 16th And December 1941 95% of Kyrgyz and Kazakhs (June 1942) -70% of Kyrgyz and Kazakhs, 30% of Uzbeks) - (316 SD).
              19) 74 Guards March March 1943 50% of Uzbeks, 20% of Kazakhs, 15% of Tatars, 15% of Russians.
              20) 8 cd august 1941 95% of Kazakhs.
              21) 11 cd PriVO September 1941 95% of Kazakhs (8th Guards cd since January 1943).
              22) I do not mention 105 and 106 kav divisions. 48th Kazakh Cav. regiment of five hundred. Kazakhs - 415. "
              David Glanz. Risen from the Ashes - M .: Yauza: Eksmo, 2009. page 363-389.
              He cited it only for the Kazakhs. I did not take the data where the Asians and non-Slavs are indicated, for example.
              Here the main thing is not to go to the other extreme)))) they say that some non-Russians fought.))) There are loss figures and they are more eloquent than all words.
              1. Zymran
                Zymran 16 September 2015 14: 24 New
                +2
                Quote: Nagaibak
                14) 316 with 16 And ​​October 1941 90% of Kazakhs and Kyrgyz 10% of Russians.


                Very interesting. Typically, the ethnic composition of the Panfilov division becomes the subject of fierce debate. Is there a link to the data?
                1. Nagaibak
                  Nagaibak 16 September 2015 15: 48 New
                  +1
                  Zymran "Is there a link to the data?"
                  Nagaybak She is brought. Here again, separately. There by all nationalities. But how exactly is this to Glanz.)))
                  David Glanz. Risen from the Ashes - M .: Yauza: Eksmo, 2009. page 363-389.
                  1. Zymran
                    Zymran 16 September 2015 17: 10 New
                    0
                    Quote: Nagaibak
                    David Glanz. Risen from the Ashes - M .: Yauza: Eksmo, 2009. page 363-389.


                    Thank. Glanz is a conscientious scientist, of course.
                    1. Nagaibak
                      Nagaibak 16 September 2015 20: 05 New
                      +1
                      Zymran "Thank you. Glanz is a conscientious scientist, of course."
                      Yes, how can I say))) that he analyzed the national composition of our divisions is one thing. And so he, too, slips fear of the NKVD and other cliches. But, for the sake of justice, I’ll say less than others.))) Compared to other west. Scientists, he is a cut above the understanding of the Great Patriotic War. Although he also has enough mistakes.
      2. Gunxnumx
        Gunxnumx 16 September 2015 12: 07 New
        +5
        I agree. I heard that until recently Nazarbayev hoped that the Union would remain, and they switched to tenge only after the Russian Federation introduced "new" rubles. True, there was a swag that he was put forward somewhere on a very large position in Moscow under the Union. Maybe that's why he was for the Union?
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 10 New
          +4
          I read that Nazarbayev was nominated for the Chairman of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. And like, he was already flying to Moscow to the post, and then they announced the decision of the “three” in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, he kind of turned the plane back to Alma-Ata ...
    2. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 16 September 2015 15: 36 New
      +8
      In this whole story, I personally see only friendship. The friendship of the peoples of ALL Eurasia. Look how many peoples live in Russia, how many in Kazakhstan, we are doomed to be together. We have had the whole history of an exchange of cultures, through trade or war, not even the Mongols started the Huns, they went almost from Vladivostok to Europe, moving the Great Migration, destroying Rome, then the Mongols came to Central Asia and to Russia, again the relocation and mixing of the masses, the creation of ethnic groups, states, the Horde was the reason for the unity of the Russians around the Moscow principality, also the Russians helped the Kazakhs unite into one state. We are doomed to help each other, without one there is no other. In the entire territory of the former Union, the peoples of Eurasia even have a single mentality. It can be said fate. So instead of looking for points of separation, I urge you to pay attention to the points that unite us. wink

      PySy. Considering that one big people always consists of small tribes or cities, like Russians, Germans, Kazakhs, it is interesting whether ethnic groups such as Buryats, Yakuts, Evenks, Tungus, Altai people have any close relation to the Dzungars, in addition to the real descendants of the Oirats and Kalmyks and Khakass, who knows?
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 17 September 2015 10: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Max_Bauder
        as Russians, Germans, Kazakhs, I wonder if they have any close relationship with the Dzungars, in addition to real descendants Oirat and Kalmyks, such ethnic groups as Buryats, Yakuts, Evenks, Tungus, Altai people and Khakass, who knows?


        Turkic Altaians are Oirats. Altaians had this self-name before the 20th century ...
        1. Starshina wmf
          Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 41 New
          0
          Altaians are a branch of Oirats. Their name is not Oirats, but Oirots.
          1. Aposlya
            Aposlya 18 September 2015 07: 12 New
            0
            It is Oirats! So at least the Altaians themselves say ...
    3. Starshina wmf
      Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 26 New
      0
      During the Civil War, the Red Communists slaughtered all Kalmyks, since 90% of Kalmyks fought on the side of the Whites. Yes, they also pressed them after the war. They took cattle, drove them to collective farms. During the war, Kalmyks fought until they were 43 years old, then they were deported. Yes on the side Germans fought Kalmyks numbering about 1500 thousand. But most of them were people offended by the Soviet regime. But the vast majority of Kalmyks fought for the USSR. According to the ranks of Heroes of the USSR Kalmyks take the second place after Ossetians. Per capita. As one of the programs Ossetian grandfather said, if the Kalmyks fought before 45, then they would have more Heroes. And about the Kazakhs, after 91 years they rewrite history for themselves. What kind of soldiers and brave men. They destroyed the Dzungars. They stopped the Chinese. Well, as in Ukraine. It’s known everywhere that the Dzungarian the khanate was destroyed by the feud and the war with the Qing Empire.
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 18 September 2015 07: 13 New
        0
        who would talk about "rewriting" history! laughing
  2. qwert
    qwert 16 September 2015 07: 32 New
    +5
    Whatever friends Kazakhs are now for us, and they really are our second friends after the Belarusians, but a resident of Kazakhstan who too zealously called for the reunification of Kazakhstan with Russia received four years in places not so distant. In addition, they periodically try to review the story in their newspapers. But these are all the results of democracy and capitalism, when the head is not the well-being of the people and not historical truth, but exclusively profit.
    1. vrach
      vrach 16 September 2015 08: 35 New
      +2
      Edik Limonov also sat in Kazakhstan. The FSB has indicatively passed it to the National Security Committee, literally handed it over to on the border of Altai and Kazakhstan, in the current historical perspective, with the alliance of Russia and China, the course of Kazakhstan will be strictly defined.
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 16 September 2015 08: 57 New
      -12
      It also ensured the external security of the Kazakh lands and rescued the Kazakhs from the enslavement of the Dzungarian military feudal state and the Manchu-Chinese empire of Qing
      Maybe the author will call those great battles and bloody battles in which Russian troops, utterly defeated the Dzungars and the Manzhuro-Chinese ..?! soldier
      Maybe the “VO” users will remind us of the Kazakhs, the names of those great generals and ordinary soldiers who saved us from enslavement ?! request
      I will remember the battles of Bulanty and Anrykai, the names of Abylay and Abulkhair, Bohemian and Kabanbai, Raimbek and Bukhar-zhyrau ..
      Can you name similar Russian names and surnames ..?! repeat
      Quote: qwert
      a resident of Kazakhstan, too zealously calling for the reunification of Kazakhstan with Russia, received four years in places not so remote
      "Pruffs or pidapac" sir .. bully
      1. vrach
        vrach 16 September 2015 09: 21 New
        +9
        It was enough for the Russians to demonstrate their intentions and it worked. Yes, the Kazakh army later broke the Dzungar, but still the main work was performed by the Chinese in fact destroying this people. Kalmyks descendants Dzhungar fled right in the lower Volga region.
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 32 New
          -6
          It would be better if the Russian politicians did not supply the Dzungars with a firearm and artillery ...
          After all, the Dzungars were citizenship of the Republic of Ingushetia ... it turns out that the Republic of Ingushetia invaded the Dzungars against the Kazakh Khanate and, as a result, crushed it for itself ...
          Like it to whom it is or not, but this is the story, although for a long time it was ...
          1. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 16 September 2015 10: 23 New
            +5
            Aposlya "After all, the Dzungars were citizenship of RI .."
            Is this from an alternative history or something?)))) Give a reference pliz.)))
            1. Aposlya
              Aposlya 16 September 2015 10: 30 New
              -4
              googled about the Kalmyk Khanate: "Kalmyk Khanate (Torgot Khanate; Kalm. Halmg Khan uls) - Kalmyk state formation in the XVII-XVIII centuries as part of the Russian Empire and the Russian Empire."
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 16 September 2015 10: 50 New
                +3
                Aposlya "google about the Kalmyk Khanate:" The Kalmyk Khanate (Torgot Khanate; Kalm. Halmg Khan uls) - the state formation of the Kalmyks in the XVII-XVIII centuries as part of the Russian Empire and the Russian Empire. "
                And let’s say here the vassal Kalmyk Khanate. And we are talking about the Dzungar Khanate. The Dzungarian Khanate was a vassal for Russia.))) From the wiki.
                “In 1710, the Russian Bikatun prison was ravaged by the Dzungars, who tried to establish Russian troops on the lands of the Dzungar Khanate. In 1715, the Dzungars again began military operations against the Qing Empire and captured Hami. In February-April 1716, at the direction of the Oirat Khan Galdan-Tseren Oirat detachment defeated the Russian detachment of Colonel I. D. Buchholz. "
                Good subjects.
                1. Aposlya
                  Aposlya 16 September 2015 10: 59 New
                  0
                  Duc Kalmyks are actually Dzhungars! The “Kalmyk khanate”, like the Dzungar khanate, is its modern name, since the Mongol (hulk, dzungar) has the title of KHAN, and therefore the khanate could never be, since the title of leader of the Mongolian peoples was KONAYKCHI, not the khan ...
                  1. Nagaibak
                    Nagaibak 16 September 2015 11: 41 New
                    +1
                    [Aposlya "Duc Kalmyks are actually Dzungars!"
                    But the khanates were different so Duc.))) Not anestand?)))) One is in vassal dependence, the other is not. I understand that moment. And which was no more powerful than the vassals. And geographically in another place it was so googled the Dzungarian Khanate.)))
                    1. Aposlya
                      Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 56 New
                      +1
                      Do you know what Kalmyk means and why they were called that?
                      1. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 16 September 2015 12: 03 New
                        0
                        Aposlya "Do you know what Kalmyk means and why they were called so?"
                        I don’t seem to remember exactly who split off or separated. More precisely - Kalmak)))
                      2. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 06 New
                        0
                        Nope, the Remains ... What remained after the expulsion was first from the Kazakh steppes, and then already what was left from China ran to the Volga ... The word Kalmak - the remainder is translated from Kazakh ...
                      3. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 16 September 2015 14: 20 New
                        0
                        = Apostle "Nope, Remains ... What remains after being expelled first from the Kazakh steppes, and then already what is left from China has fled to the Volga ... Kalmak word - the remainder is translated from Kazakh.
                        All this is understandable. But the Volga appeared at the beginning of the 17th century. Guess through whose lands they came to the Volga.))) They certainly interacted with their relatives in the east, but were in allied and other relations with Russia. But those who were in the Dzungaria acted independently and did not obey anyone. From the wiki.
                        "Tsar Vasily Shuisky in 1608 received one of the first embassies of the Kalmyk (namely Derbet) Taisha, and in response to their request for Russian citizenship, allocation of places for nomadism and protection from the khans of the Kazakh and Nogai, received full consent. Torgut khan Ho-Urlyuk also sent ambassadors to Moscow asking him to take him with his sons and grandchildren “under the tsar’s hand.” The date of the final entry of the Kalmyk Khanate into Russia remains a subject of debate. According to some scholars, around 1657 the process of Kalmyks entering the Russian kingdom was completed [17] Other researchers believe that the Kalmyk Khanate finally lost its sovereignty only after Khan Ayuk asked Peter I in 1722 to help him transfer power to his youngest son Tseren-Donduk, bypassing the offspring of the eldest son Chakdorjap, who had died by this time [ 41]. "
                        Then everything was tired of this Volga and in 1770-71 they sank through Kazakhstan back to China. The Manchus took them and settled along the borders to protect them. Catherine 2 tried to stop them, but not the Kazakhs))) not the Yaits Cossacks))) could not do this.)))
                      4. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 16 September 2015 14: 38 New
                        0
                        Nagaybak, this is a modern translation-translation, it’s obvious. Then they will be called Kalmyks, after the defeat ...
                        And yet, the Manjuris just didn’t resettle them, namely, they genetically eliminated them for the most part. According to various sources, from 5 to 8 million people were cut there, although Kalmyk and Chinese historians themselves still cannot reach a final conclusion. And this was after they were driven out of our steppes. But their remains on the Volga and fled, but very few ...
                      5. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 16 September 2015 15: 54 New
                        0
                        Aposlya "namely, they genetically eliminated according to their needs. According to various sources, from 5 to 8 million people were cut there."
                        We are talking about the Volga koi moved to the Volga in the 17th century. How do you not understand. And who remained in the Dzungaria genocide.
                        "In 1755-1759, as a result of internal strife and civil war caused by strife and the struggle of the ruling elite of Dzungaria for the throne of the Dzungar Khanate, one of the representatives and contenders for the throne of the Dzungar state (Khanate) of Amursan, who hoped to seize the throne with the help of the Chinese Manchu, called the specified state fell to the aid of the troops of the Manchu Qing dynasty. At the same time, the territory of the Dzungar Khanate was surrounded by two Manchu-Chinese armies - about half a million people. About 90% of the then population of Dzungaria were killed. "
                        Volzhsky came back in 1770-71. 20 years of difference. This is not a modern shift.)))
                  2. Alibekulu
                    Alibekulu 16 September 2015 19: 11 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Aposlya
                    Nope, Remnants ... What was left after the expulsion first from the Kazakh steppes, and then what was left from China ran to the Volga .. The word Kalmak - the remainder from the Kazakh is translated ..
                    A little bit wrong. Dzungar and Kalmak are actually synonyms.
                    The appearance of these ethnonyms dates back to the epoch of Genghis Khan, when huge masses of nomads moved westward. The remaining clans and clans were called "Kalmak", i.e. "remaining" from the Turkic languages.
                    "Dzungar" - means "left wing" (comment-empire of Genghis Khan) translated from Mongolian.

                    Under the title of the article "Russian fortresses on the protection of the Kazakhs". It is like writing the "Golden Horde-limited contingent of Mongol-Tatars performing the international duty to protect Russia" or "Baty's invasion is an operation to" force peace "on the Russian princes."
                    The article is normal, but one-sided, and oil oozes ..
                  3. Starshina wmf
                    Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 47 New
                    -1
                    The first mention of Kalmyks is found in the work of Zheref-name, written in the first quarter of the 1370th century, by Sheref ad-din Yezdi. Describing the military events of the Timur Khan era (1405–1397), the author announces the arrival to Timur in 98/1413 of ambassadors from Desht-i-Kipchak from Dzhuchiev ulus (i.e. from the Golden Horde), whose inhabitants he refers to as Kalmyks . Another author, Abd-ar-razzak of Samarkandi (1482-1404), setting out the history of the reign of Shahrukh (1447-1452) and Sultan Abu Said (1469-1459), indicates that in 60/XNUMX "great ambassadors arrived from lands of Kalmyk and Desht-i-Kipchak, ”
                  4. Starshina wmf
                    Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 47 New
                    0
                    listen to Vysotsky’s song “Dzhungary”
              2. Starshina wmf
                Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 44 New
                -1
                Kalmyks began to call those who refused to join Islam, remained faithful to the old religious beliefs, did not want to move to Central Asia and remained nomadic in the steppes of the Lower Volga and Desht-i-Kipchak.
                In the old Uzbek materials.
              3. Alibekulu
                Alibekulu 18 September 2015 20: 07 New
                0
                Quote: Starshina wmf
                Kalmyks began to call those who refused to join Islam, remained faithful to old religious beliefs
                So it can be so, only aren't Kalmyks Buddhists ?!request
                Why didn’t they remain faithful to the old religious beliefs ?! Or lamaism no more kosher than Islam ?!
              4. Starshina wmf
                Starshina wmf 19 September 2015 06: 11 New
                0
                Kalmyks already professed Buddhism during the adoption of Islam by other peoples, although I agree with one of the Kalmyk scholars who says that Buddhism was imparted to the Mongols and Kalmyks by the Chinese. Since Buddhism professes peace and harmony, which is why the Mongol warriors who kept half the world in fear became as it is now. And if you count the Kazakhs and other Central Asians, the Caucasians treat them differently than their own, those who live in the Caucasus. When serving in the Navy, he served with the Caucasians, they were more friends with Kalmyks than with Kazakh colleagues and Tatars.
      2. Starshina wmf
        Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 46 New
        0
        The first mention of Kalmyks is found in the work of Zheref-name, written in the first quarter of the 1370th century, by Sheref ad-din Yezdi. Describing the military events of the Timur Khan era (1405–1397), the author announces the arrival to Timur in 98/1413 of ambassadors from Desht-i-Kipchak from Dzhuchiev ulus (i.e. from the Golden Horde), whose inhabitants he refers to as Kalmyks . Another author, Abd-ar-razzak of Samarkandi (1482-1404), setting out the history of the reign of Shahrukh (1447-1452) and Sultan Abu Said (1469-1459), indicates that in 60/XNUMX "great ambassadors arrived from lands of Kalmyk and Desht-i-Kipchak, ”
  • michell
    michell 16 September 2015 16: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Aposlya
    After all, the Dzungars were in citizenship of RI ...


    Yeah. That is why the Dzungars in the winter of 1709 - 1710 burned the Bikatunsky prison - the fortress of the Kolyvano-Kuznetsk defensive line, built specifically to protect against them.
    Quote: Aposlya
    Those. it turns out that the Republic of Ingushetia invaded the Dzungars against the Kazakh Khanate and, as a result, crushed it for itself ...

    belay
  • Starshina wmf
    Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 16: 42 New
    -1
    In 1755-1759, as a result of internal strife and civil war caused by strife and the struggle of the ruling elite of the Dzungaria for the throne of the Dzungar Khanate, one of the representatives and applicants to the throne of the Dzungar state (Khanate) Amursan, who hoped to seize the throne with the help of the Chinese Manchu, called for help troops of the Manchu Qing Dynasty, the specified state fell. At the same time, the territory of the Dzungar Khanate was surrounded by two Manchurian-Chinese armies - about half a million people. About 90% of the then population of Dzungaria were killed, mainly women, the elderly and children. One ulus - about ten thousand zyungars, derbets, Hoyts under the leadership of Noyon (Prince) Sheereng (Tseren) with heavy fights made his way and went to the Volga in the Kalmyk Khanate. The remnants of some Dzhungar uluses made their way to Afghanistan, Badakhshan, Bukhara and were accepted for military service by the local rulers. After the defeat of the Dzungar Khanate by the Qing Empire, the entire territory of the former Khanate became part of the Qing Empire.
  • Smoke
    Smoke 16 September 2015 12: 16 New
    +4
    put you a minus. Deny Home the role of Irtysh Russian fortresses in protecting the Kazakhs is stupidity. And there were no battles between the Russians and the Dzungars because forgive me, but the Russian army and the Dzungarian were in completely different weight categories, just as the Chinese Qing army would have been swept into the trash, and then everyone knew that perfectly.
  • Pancho
    Pancho 16 September 2015 20: 11 New
    -1
    Quote: Alibekulu
    I will remember the battles of Bulanty and Anrykai, the names of Abylay and Abulkhair, Bohemian and Kabanbai, Raimbek and Bukhar-zhyrau ..

    With all due respect, can you read somewhere about these famous battles and about generals? Where and in what language were these historical materials recorded, eh? You don’t tell tales, after 1991 you needed your historical characters, and unfortunately there weren’t any of them, except perhaps Khan Ablai. Well, it started to invent stories. All this would be funny if it weren’t sad.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 16 September 2015 20: 40 New
      +6
      Quote: Pancho

      With all due respect, can you read somewhere about these famous battles and about generals? Where and in what language were these historical materials recorded, eh? You don’t tell tales, after 1991 you needed your historical characters, and unfortunately there weren’t any of them, except perhaps Khan Ablai. Well, it started to invent stories. All this would be funny if it weren’t sad.

      Here, too, doubts gnaw me when historians begin to refer to annals that have been copied and edited more than once, and perhaps were written upon request for a specific political task and moment. Here was the Iliad, just a fairy tale, but they excavated Troy (if it really is) and the fairy tale turned into a story. In general, there were no Kazakhs, their Bolsheviks came up with the idea of ​​giving the lands of southern Siberia to the ancestral lands of the Russians, but there were Kyrgyz-kaisaks who at one time saved them from the Dzungars, the sting of the Qinans, then the Kokandans who stood in line for the extermination and enslavement of the Kazakhs.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • VladimirRG
    VladimirRG 16 September 2015 07: 50 New
    +9
    "And the defense points helped accelerate Kazakhstan's voluntary entry into Russia - a historical process that was important for a quiet life and development of the Kazakh people." - guys what are you talking about !!!! ???? The history books of the Republic of Kazakhstan clearly spell out the period of colonization and occupation by Russia. So here we are the descendants of the colonialists. and we (Kazakhs) simply oppressed them to death and starved them.
    1. vrach
      vrach 16 September 2015 08: 40 New
      +1
      Did not watch the movie "Horde"? A good movie, funny is that there the Mongols speak Kazakh. And these are completely different unrelated language groups Turkic and Buryat-Mongolian. But it has a good philosophy of life. Take a look.
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 21 New
        +1
        Horde movie - an ordinary splint sucked from a finger ....
      2. Mangel olys
        Mangel olys 16 September 2015 09: 57 New
        +9
        There is no limit to my indignation! Not a film, but a libel on both of our peoples with the aim of fomenting strife. Due to their ignorance or intentionally, the authors of the film incite hatred of the "Tatars - enslavers" of the Russian people, who are the second largest in Russia and since ancient times lived together with the Russians on this earth. All the “historical” nonsense was composed by the Romanov “Russian history”, which we now have, in the 17th-18th centuries. foreigners, ideologists of the "Roman-German Iga" (N. S. Trubetskoy). There was no “Tatar-Mongol yoke”. Read the works of L. N. Gumilyov, G. R. Enikeev, especially from his book “The Crown of the Horde Empire” (Moscow, “Algorithm”, 2007) and “Following the Trail of the Black Legend” (Moscow, Medina, 2009) and others scientists.
        1. Cossack Ermak
          Cossack Ermak 16 September 2015 12: 20 New
          +3
          Surely. This is themselves residents of Russian cities burned and cut))) Torzhok just remember)
          From now on came the lawlessness, and stumbling Torzhek ... and from now on you are all about, like a different hail of ichmah ...

          ... Then the Tatars came and besieged Torzhok ... and they surrounded the whole city with mud, just like other cities took ....
          (Novgorod 1st Annals)

          and having lost that vices for two weeks, and exhausted people in the city, and from Novgorod they would not have helped, but who had already become bewildered and bewildered ...

          ... and the Tatars (the city) were bombarded with stone-throwing guns for two weeks and the people in the city were exhausted, but they did not have help from Novgorod, because everyone was perplexed and afraid ...
          (Novgorod 1st Annals)



          And taking the hail in such a tragedy, cutting everything from the masculine gender to the woman, the priestly chin is all black-and-white. And everything is exposed and scolded, by a bitter and poor death ... in the month of March on the 5th day ... The same slaughter of byshas: Ivanko, Novotorzhesky posadnik, Yakim Vlunkovich, Gleb Borisovich, Mikhail Moisevich.



          And so the pagans took the city, killing everyone - both men and women, all priests and monks. Everything was looted and scolded, and in a bitter and unfortunate death ... March 5 ... And they were killed here: Ivanko, posadnik novotorzheky, Akim Vlunkovich, Gleb Borisovich, Mikhail Moiseevich.
          (Tver Chronicle)

          There was no yoke figase)))))
          1. Aposlya
            Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 25 New
            0
            Quote: Cossack Ermak
            There was no yoke figase)))))


            There was a predatory war, but again not all cities were ruined or besieged ...
            But for some reason, a Pole, the Catholic monk already in the 15th century, first hinted about IGA in Russia.
            1. Cossack Ermak
              Cossack Ermak 16 September 2015 12: 43 New
              0
              Quote: Aposlya
              There was a predatory war, but again not all cities were ruined or besieged ...
              But for some reason, a Pole, the Catholic monk already in the 15th century, first hinted about IGA in Russia.

              I gave you quotes from that time. And cutting to zero both women and men of the whole city, how can you characterize it more tolerantly?
              1. Aposlya
                Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 47 New
                +3
                Before Batu captured Kiev, the Russian princes themselves burned it for 5 years already 7 times ... What can I call it?
                It was after Batu captured him that the Russian folk fun “burn Kiev” sank into oblivion ... wink

                Quote: Cossack Ermak
                And cutting to zero both women and men of the whole city


                What cities are you talking about? List these cities ...
                1. Cossack Ermak
                  Cossack Ermak 16 September 2015 12: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: Aposlya
                  What cities are you talking about? List these cities ...

                  Read carefully. I wrote. Torzhok for example.
                  And about the Russians they cut the Russians .... You re-read your history of relations between the Kazakhs. I haven’t read much. Continuous raids on each other.
                  1. Aposlya
                    Aposlya 16 September 2015 13: 05 New
                    +1
                    Those. only Torzhok? Well, Ryazan yet?

                    About our raids - cattle was stolen, it was such a medieval national sport in ancient times - the barymta was called ... laughing
                2. andrew42
                  andrew42 16 September 2015 16: 51 New
                  +1
                  I support. The capture of Yuryev (Tartu) by the "Germans" - that was the carving. The fight between Dmitry and Andrei Aleksandrovich - these were cuttings. Nonsense about the "Mongols" tired of listening. But the fact that Vladimir-Suzdal’s directly believed that Kiev and Western Russia “expected” is on the surface.
          2. andrew42
            andrew42 16 September 2015 16: 45 New
            +2
            Well, Torzhok who took a lot. The same Suzdal people, even before the “Mongols," ravaged it to the ground. And they took in spite of the pardon from the prince, - "We did not come to kiss them." Nothing to blame for the "Mongols". And after Torzhok suffered more than once in the confrontation of the Muscovites against the Novgorodians. And in the chronicle quotes there is more grief about the beaten "priestly rank" - the monks cry. Yaroslav Vsevolodich even according to Karamzin faithfully served Batu. Such to serve the killer of his own brother (George) in Russia did not happen at any time. Doctors are all about the "Mongols." Vraaaki.
        2. Cossack Ermak
          Cossack Ermak 16 September 2015 12: 23 New
          0
          And here you have tales about the fact that the Tatars did not touch the clergy and the church. It was YGO. Genocide. Call it what you want.
          1. Aposlya
            Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 28 New
            +3
            So just before the Horde in Russia, the princes as they could and ruined the church, as well as the monks were killed. But it was precisely according to the laws of Genghis Khan that there was a ban on doing harm to the Church and monks, as well as the church in the Horde was exempted from all taxes and it acquired the right to land ...
      3. Mangel olys
        Mangel olys 16 September 2015 09: 57 New
        +8
        ABOUT
        The film "Horde" - a myth that sows discord!

        5 декабря 2012 года
        Moscow
        The feature film "The Horde", created by director Andrei Proshkin, worked at the Orthodox Encyclopedia film studio, allegedly released for the purpose of education. In fact, as the director himself admits, this is a myth that contradicts known historical facts. He, like many others like him, throws into our consciousness another portion of evil and hatred. In contrast to the Russian Orthodox, the Horde are depicted negatively in the film. The scenes of violence and bloody killings shown on the screen present them in the form of disgusting, senselessly cruel, bloodthirsty and underdeveloped creatures.
        At the same time, the medieval state of the Golden Horde was at one time advanced in many respects, which made it possible to create a network of the largest cities on the continent, and to solve the tasks of management, communications and security in a gigantic territory. It is proved that the Golden Horde contributed to the strengthening of Muscovy and the unification of the Russian lands around it, stopping the series of endless bloody feuds between the princes. At that time, ministers of any faiths enjoyed the protection of the state, were exempted from taxes. Then there was a significant increase in the influence of the church in Russia, which was subsequently inhibited by the Moscow rulers, starting with Ivan III.
        The Russian Empire, and later the USSR and the modern Russian Federation, in a sense, are the heirs of the Golden Horde. They contain the lands and peoples gathered by her, and also demonstrate the continuity of the traditions of state structure and culture. Thus, the history of the Golden Horde is an integral part of the history of a common country for us - the Russian Federation and therefore requires respect for itself.
        The film is clearly propaganda. And with a spirit that does not comply with the Constitution of our country. The role of horror stories here is assigned to the ancestors of the Tatars - the Horde and their religion Islam, reflected by the fantasies of the authors in the dark halo of atrocities and perversions. Today the Tatars are the second largest indigenous people in the Russian Federation. Millions of Muslims, representatives of many nations, are also Russians. Contrasting, portraying in a negative light part of the citizens of one state in relation to another, thrown into a mass audience in a bright “artistic” wrapper, can lead to serious consequences, especially given the existing problems of interethnic relations within the country and the declining level of education. Thus, the people who released this picture, as well as their sponsors OAO Gazprom, Bank of Moscow, etc., showed irresponsibility, immorality in relation to society, which cannot be justified by the highly controversial artistic merits of the film.
        Finally, it is necessary to figure out where and why considerable efforts and resources are found on such provocations, even unprofitable from the financial side. Who benefits from hatred?
        Given the above, we demand to stop the distribution and demonstration of the feature film "Horde" on the territory of the Russian Federation, which promotes the promotion of cruelty, disorientation and misinformation of society, and inciting ethnic and religious hatred between citizens of the country.
        http://mtss.ru/im13/
      4. The comment was deleted.
    2. Aposlya
      Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 20 New
      0
      Quote: VladimirRG
      So here we are the descendants of the colonialists. and we (Kazakhs) simply oppressed them to death and starved them.


      You recall the tricks of Goloshchekin in the 30s during the "struggle against nomadism", when the population of the steppe decreased by two-thirds? The artificial famine of the 30s is precisely these very tricks that are ...
      1. vrach
        vrach 16 September 2015 09: 27 New
        +3
        Goloschekin and in Russia killed a lot of people. And about the film Horde, but splint, but a good splint, with a good philosophy of life - calling for good hold and good people.
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 35 New
          +3
          Well, even though Stalin managed to stop him, it is a pity that not earlier! And then you imagine how much more he would have managed to do?
          And as for the film, it’s a complete fiction - they made some kind of “wild yoke” from the Horde, and they took the facts and completely distorted them ...
      2. Cossack Ermak
        Cossack Ermak 16 September 2015 12: 27 New
        +3
        Quote: Aposlya
        You recall the tricks of Goloshchekin in the 30s during the "struggle against nomadism", when the population of the steppe decreased by two-thirds? The artificial famine of the 30s is precisely these very tricks that are ...

        But do you know that in the 30s, my Russian ancestors also starved in northern Kazakhstan? At the grandfather, the first 2 children died at that time from starvation.
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 31 New
          +2
          Food was taken from them, i.e. all cattle and were not allowed to move to another area to get it?
          That is exactly how the Soviets in Kazakhstan fought with the nomadic economy of the Kazakhs. They surrounded the districts with trips and seized all the cattle ... No cattle - no food ...
          1. Cossack Ermak
            Cossack Ermak 16 September 2015 12: 49 New
            +3
            Quote: Aposlya
            Food was taken from them, i.e. all cattle and were not allowed to move to another area to get it?
            That is exactly how the Soviets in Kazakhstan fought with the nomadic economy of the Kazakhs. They surrounded the districts with trips and seized all the cattle ... No cattle - no food ...

            No one whitewashes advice. But to say that it was the Kahakh genocide that is nonsense. For the same reasons, many more people died in the Volga region. it is Russian. Under the same pretext of declassification.

            Cossacks destroyed my ancestors altogether under the root of the Red-bellied. Of the 8 sons of his great-grandfather, only 2 survived. 1 managed to leave for China, then to America. My grandfather was a child, so he survived.
            You do not confuse the warm with the soft.
            1. Zymran
              Zymran 16 September 2015 12: 54 New
              +3
              Quote: Cossack Ermak
              Cossacks destroyed my ancestors altogether under the root of the Red-bellied. Of the 8 sons of the great-grandfather, only 2-5 survived. 1 managed to go to China, then to America. My grandfather was a child, so he survived.


              The genocide of the Cossacks was also. Also a huge tragedy.
            2. Aposlya
              Aposlya 16 September 2015 13: 10 New
              +2
              And I didn’t say that only the Kazakhs had hunger ... you don’t confuse me with ukrami! I just pointed out that Goloshchekin worked here in the steppes ... My cousin took my cousin to my family - he took the child from the paddock, where the Cossack families drove. According to relatives, a child was literally thrown out of the crowd.
              Hard years ...
      3. Pancho
        Pancho 16 September 2015 20: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Aposlya
        The artificial famine of the 30s is precisely these very tricks that are ...

        What your statements are based on, I emphasize the word "artificial", who needs it and why, justify it please.
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 17 September 2015 10: 12 New
          0
          When people come to you and take your food products - livestock, do you think the "Wrath of the Lord"? Or is it still created by people?
          The Soviets fought so much with the nomadic way of life among the Kazakhs ...
  • parusnik
    parusnik 16 September 2015 08: 11 New
    +6
    Yamyshevskaya, Ust-Kamenogorsk, Semipalatinsk, Bukhtarminskaya and other Russian military defenses built during the development of the southwestern regions of Siberia in the XNUMXth century played an important role in protecting the Kazakhs from capture by Dzungaria, and then Qing China.... Interestingly, they are talking about this in Kazakhstan ..? Or again ourselves .. we all managed .. and the Russians seemed to have nothing to do with it .. or the type of evil colonialists .. Interesting material, thanks ...
    1. vrach
      vrach 16 September 2015 08: 45 New
      +4
      A great monument to this is that the laws in the Majlis (parliament) are written first in Russian, and only then are translated into Kazakh. And so it will be for a long time. I am a little afraid of the similarity of colors of the Ukrainian and Kazakh flags. Let's hope that just by the example of Kazakhstan we will see the best example of good neighborliness.

      Yes, and the fortresses and defensive lines were more, the material is not very full.
      1. VladimirRG
        VladimirRG 16 September 2015 08: 49 New
        -4
        wait for the flows of refugees from Kazakhstan, although right now they go about thirty thousand a year of "immigrants".
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 24 New
          +2
          another little trolyonok floated! laughing
          1. VladimirRG
            VladimirRG 16 September 2015 10: 49 New
            -4
            You yourself are a little troller. I live in this country and I know what is being done here. unlike you.
            1. Aposlya
              Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 00 New
              +2
              Yeah, do I mean I live on Mars?
              I wonder what city are you from?
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 16 September 2015 11: 46 New
                +3
                Apostle "Yeah, but I mean I live on Mars?"
                Judging by the profile picture, you are a real Martian.)
                1. Aposlya
                  Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 58 New
                  +2
                  I did not think that Ratotui from Mars ...

                  Well, judging by your nickname, then you are a real Kazakh! hi
                  1. Nagaibak
                    Nagaibak 16 September 2015 12: 05 New
                    +5
                    Aposlya "Well, judging by your nickname, then you are a real Kazakh!"
                    On the profile picture I have an Orenburg Cossack-Nagaybak by nationality.))) I’m Russian. For your mother, Kazakhs are a bit distant relative. Junior Zhuz, Jagalbayly, Ormantai.
                    1. Aposlya
                      Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 08 New
                      +2
                      Well, that’s all right ... I read somewhere that Nagaybaki are the descendants of the baptized Nogais of Siberia. Well, the Nogais are the same as the Kazakhs - they consist of the same tribes ...
                      1. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 16 September 2015 13: 55 New
                        0
                        Aposlya "Well, that’s all right ... I read somewhere that Nagaybaks are descendants of the baptized Nogais of Siberia. Well, Nogays are the same as the Kazakhs - they consist of the same tribes ..."
                        Nagaybaki are definitely not Kazakhs.))) And the Nogais and Kazakhs are more relatives in the younger zhuz. The Nogais have all subgenus of greed. And greed is mostly Younger Zhuz. Plus Zhetyru. From the wiki.
                        Zhetyru (kaz. Zhetyru) is one of the tribes that make up the Kazakh people. According to shezhere (family tree) is part of the Younger Zhuz. Tamga looks like a double tamga of alshynov. It has seven branches, therefore it is popularly referred to as "Zhetyru" (Seven genera). The oldest founder of the Semirodtsev Karakatysh. They were named as Semerodots because he had 7 sons, each of whom, upon multiplying the people, became the head of a special tribe. Their predominant difference over the others is that in the old days they were engaged in more military operations against the enemies of their horde and were distinguished in battles by their approximately courage and courage; on this between them and to this day there are many batyrs or military, brave people [1].
                        Composition [edit | edit wiki text]
                        Zhetyru consists of seven genera:
                        Tama (Kazakh family)
                        Tabyn
                        Kerdery
                        Kereit
                        Teleu
                        Ramadan (Kazakh family)
                        Jagalbail
                        And Nagaybaki is another song that watched scientific work alone, so there is a conclusion, despite the fact that they have some of the Mongoloid blood, roughly speaking. According to the HLA-DRBI dendrogram of world populations, they are classified as Caucasians. And in the table they are between the Chuvashs and the Russians, the Tatars and Bashkirs as if to the side. And their language is considered Tatar.
                      2. Aposlya
                        Aposlya 16 September 2015 14: 42 New
                        0
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        And Nagaybaki is another song that watched scientific work alone, so there is a conclusion, despite the fact that they have some of the Mongoloid blood, roughly speaking. According to the HLA-DRBI dendrogram of world populations, they are classified as Caucasians. And in the table they are between the Chuvashs and the Russians, the Tatars and Bashkirs as if to the side. And their language is considered Tatar.


                        It’s just that at one time, Christianized Nogais through Orthodoxy did not marry Kalmyks, and so they didn’t have a large Mongoloid raid.
                        And by the way, the Tatar language, like the Kazakh language, is the Turkic language.
                      3. Nagaibak
                        Nagaibak 16 September 2015 16: 02 New
                        +1
                        Apostle "Just at the time, Christianized Nogais through Orthodoxy did not marry Kalmyks, and so they did not have a large raid of Mongoloidity.
                        And by the way, the Tatar language, like the Kazakh language, is the Turkic language. "
                        You will not believe it, but from the moment they began to carry out Cossack service, everything is known about them.
                        You will not believe it, but in the 19th century they married Kalmyks and married Kalmyks. I will sign the time.))
                        Of course, Turkic languages, but among the Nagaybaks. From the wiki “Language is a dialect of the average dialect of the Tatar language. Believers are Orthodox Christians. According to Russian law, they are officially a small people [2].”
                        That's what I meant.
                    2. Aposlya
                      Aposlya 16 September 2015 14: 48 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      And the Nogais and Kazakhs are more relatives in the younger zhuz.


                      In fact, not only Junior Zhuz but also a shaft of others. Among them, I met Kipchaks and Naimans, Argyns and Jalirs. In general, the Nogais in the Caucasus and those who were in Ukraine (the Nogai yurt) are the very Batu Khan warriors who took the side of the Nogai Khan, the first separatists in the Golden Horde, so to speak.
                    3. Nagaibak
                      Nagaibak 16 September 2015 15: 57 New
                      +1
                      Apostle "In general, the Nogais in the Caucasus and those who were in Ukraine (the Nogai yurt) are the very Batu Khan warriors who took the side of the Nogai Khan, the first separatists in the Golden Horde, so to speak."
                      Catch a plus myself I call them.
  • vrach
    vrach 16 September 2015 09: 29 New
    +4
    Refugee flows lol to cross-border supermarkets in Russia from Kazakhstan, when the tenge has not yet fallen? Yes, they saw.
    1. VladimirRG
      VladimirRG 16 September 2015 10: 52 New
      -3
      Yes, it was as it is that every year 30 people move from Kazakhstan to Russia, this is according to official statistics. the consulate in Russia in Almaty is inundated with applications for relocation.
      1. Aposlya
        Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 10 New
        +3
        Well, a person is looking for where better - this is normal! Do not nail them with nails ?! wink
        Over from Russia in 2015, over 200 thousand citizens left for other countries and nothing, no one does tragedy from this ... So there is no need to panic ...
        1. VladimirRG
          VladimirRG 16 September 2015 12: 27 New
          -2
          200 thousand 30 thousand left on roads perishes, etc. etc. and no panic ????? !!!! is everything okay with your head? If this is normal, then Russia will soon be a Muslim Muslim country.
          1. Aposlya
            Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 33 New
            +4
            Unlike you, everything is fine with my head!
            Why are you panicking? Sit not in Russia, but in Kazakhstan?
            Who is to blame for people going back and forth? Who is to blame that people are looking for where they better live?
            Do not know? Then calm down and breathe deeper ...
  • Aposlya
    Aposlya 16 September 2015 09: 23 New
    +3
    I also did not understand what the picture about the Polish gentry was inserted by the author into the material ...
    1. vrach
      vrach 16 September 2015 09: 31 New
      +2
      Text slyapan in haste, many typos.
  • VladimirRG
    VladimirRG 16 September 2015 08: 48 New
    +1
    No one says anything. The Russians stopped them and colonized them according to their history.
  • Nagaibak
    Nagaibak 16 September 2015 10: 26 New
    0
    parusnik "Or again ourselves .. we all managed .. and the Russians seemed to have nothing to do with it .. or like evil colonizers .. Interesting material, thanks."
    Of course, everything is so.))) Miracles do not happen.)))
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 16 September 2015 10: 32 New
      -7
      And so it was ... The Russian troops sat along the fortresses, and the Kazakh militia did the same to complete the Dzungar troops and threw them from our territory to China, where they were slaughtered ...
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 16 September 2015 10: 57 New
        +6
        Aposl "Russian troops were sitting on fortresses, and the Kazakh militia did the same to finish the Dzungar troops and threw them from our territory to China, where they were killed by the Manjurs ..."
        Yeah, it was straight so hollow that the Kazakhs were on the verge of defeat even after their victories. It is necessary to compose less if it were not for the internal strife among the Dzungars - the Manchus would not have defeated them, and even more so.)))) From the wiki.
        “In 1723, Tsevan-Rabdan waged successful wars with the Kazakhs, as a result of which the Kazakhs lost vast territories in the region of Semirechye and ceded to the Oirats of Tashkent and Turkestan. Khojent and Samarkand also recognized their dependence on the Dzungars. [10] In 1725, the Dzungars defeated the Karakalpaks.

        From 1729 to 1737, the successor of Tsewan-Rabdan, Galdan-Tseren, waged war against Qing China, his task was to recapture Khalkha-Mongolia from China and unite it with Dzungaria. In 1730, Qing troops were defeated by Oirats near Lake Barkul, and in 1731 - in Altai. However, in 1732, the Qing army built a powerful fortress on the Dzungarian border in the tract Modon-Tsagan-kul, which served as the basis for its further operations. On August 23, 1732, the 30th Oirat army march eastward towards Tola and Kerulen, and on August 26 defeated the 22th enemy group near Mount Modon Khoton. Oirats reached the residence of the head of the Lamaist church in Khalkha - Erdeni-Dzu Monastery, but were cast back there by Qing troops. In 1733-1734, the Qing went on the offensive, but did not achieve any success. The war continued until 1737. It became clear that it was impossible to solve the conflict by force of arms, neither side could inflict decisive defeat on the other. In 1739, Galdan made peace with Qing China on favorable terms.
        In the years 1740-1743, the troops of Galdan Tseren made successful campaigns against the Kazakhs. As a result of the war, the Sultan of the Middle Zhuz Abylay was captured, and the Zhuz fell under the control of the Dzungars. The younger Zhuz joined the Russian Empire in order to protect against the Dzungars. [11] [12] "
        Let's tell how the Russians sat in the fortresses, and you fought heroically.))))
        On the other hand, of course you can tell. that this is not true.)))
        1. Aposlya
          Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 17 New
          +1
          Well, for example: “The most bloody battle with the Dzungars took place in the spring of 1729 in the area of ​​Anrakai, in the south of Lake Balkhash, where the Kazakh militia defeated the Dzungar army. In folk tales, this place is called“ the place of moans and sobs of the enemy. ”The political opponent also participated in the battle Abulkhair Khan Barak Sultan, Khan of the Middle Zhuz Abulmambet, clan divisions of the Senior Zhuz led by Bolat Khan.

          Source: http://e-history.kz/ru/contents/view/762
          © e-history.kz "

          Maybe then you will find a little material where the Russian army would defeat the Dzungars on the territory of Kazakhstan? winked
          1. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 16 September 2015 11: 37 New
            +2
            Apostle "1729 in the area of ​​Anrakai."
            We know your Anrakai.))) I read about this battle when you probably weren’t in the world yet.))) Your Anrakai is like the Battle of Kulikovo. After that battle, Tokhtamysh took Moscow in 2 years.)))
            And the Jungars drove the Kazakhs for a long time along the steppes after Anrakai. I’m talking about this.))) Anrakai was born in 1729, and after 10 years the invasion again.))) And you write, they threw it out.))) For almost a hundred years, they threw it out with varying success.
            1. Aposlya
              Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 52 New
              -1
              AND? As a result, they threw out! Yes, they fought with them for 100 years, since they were divided ...
              And to remind you how old Russia was under the Horde? After all, it was not 100 years old, but much more!
              So it’s not worthwhile here to tell us who drove whom and how much there ... It’s not worth it to pose as infallible, invincible! wink
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 16 September 2015 12: 10 New
                +3
                Apostle "So it’s not worthwhile here to tell us who drove whom and how much there ... Do not make yourself infallible-invincible writhe here."
                Well then, you should grow up for a long time. And do not paint how cruelly colonized you.))) And boasts how you defeated the Dzungar in one fell swoop. I wrote about this right away.)))
                And Russia is really invincible))) - Do you have doubts?))) I think it is futile to hit the heel in the chest ... therefore, we will wrap ourselves up.)))
                1. Aposlya
                  Aposlya 16 September 2015 12: 16 New
                  -1
                  It seems you mixed me up with someone in the heat of the moment - I did not write anything about colonization, I wrote that the Russian troops did not help the Kazakhs in the war with the Dzungars ... Well, we defeated the Dzungars ourselves ...

                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  And Russia is really invincible))) - Do you have doubts?)))


                  There are no invincibles, it is not necessary to engage in cap-making activity ... Or have you already forgotten the 91st year? The Cold War, it’s not a flower either! The consequences are still dissolving!
                  And the First World? Russia then completely lost it, have you already forgotten? But what about the Crimean War?
                  So there are no invincibles ... Grow up already yourself ...
                  1. Nagaibak
                    Nagaibak 16 September 2015 13: 27 New
                    +3
                    Apostle "Or have you forgotten the 91st year already?"
                    This is not a defeat, but a betrayal of leadership. I think it's worth distinguishing.)))
                    Apostle "And the First World?" here, too, is not a military defeat. Call it what you want.
                    Apostle "But what about the Crimean War?"
                    Then I agree that we lost the campaign in the Crimea, but won on the Caucasian front, as a result, they signed the world on more or less conditions, and after 20 years they wiped with these papers.))) England squealed a bit and that’s all.)))
                    You forgot to mention the Japanese))) well, there after 50 years, insisted. So. what is your argument for my joke is not very ....)))
                    1. Aposlya
                      Aposlya 16 September 2015 13: 36 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      Then I agree that they lost the campaign in the Crimea, but won on the Caucasian front as a result, they signed the world on more or less conditions, and after 20 years they wiped these papers.)))


                      I read somewhere that there Gorchakov helped the Angles in negotiations to wash away all the victories ...
                      "The Englishwoman is crap ..."
  • Zymran
    Zymran 16 September 2015 13: 26 New
    +5
    In fact, these fortresses were not built to protect the Kazakhs, but to protect them from the Kazakhs.

    At the end of the XVII century, the southernmost settlement on the river. Irtysh was the Chernolutsky prison, founded in the 1670 year, in 50-versts below the confluence of the river. Omi in the Irtysh. The fortified settlement of Chernolutsk then served as the main observation point on the border of two steppes: the Kyrgyz, spreading beyond the Irtysh, and the Barabinskaya, lying between the Irtysh and the Ob. Part of this steppe, going south of the river. Omi and on the right bank of the Irtysh, was occupied by the nomads of the then powerful Dzungars. From Chernobuchy, the fortified line passed through the Ishim, Tarsky and Tyukalinsky districts of the Tobolsk province to the borders of the Orenburg province and was called Ishim. This line was the most advanced stronghold that protected peaceful agricultural districts of North-Western Siberia from attacks by steppe neighbors, Dzungars and Kirghiz.

    By the beginning of the XVIII century, the Ishim line could no longer protect the agricultural colonization from the daring and constant raids of Kalmyks and Kirghiz, who terrified civilians and kept them constantly in alarm not only for their property, but also for their lives. The situation of the Russian population of this outskirts at that time was so alarming that each raid forced the border settlers to abandon their homes and escape in cities and prison.

    In 1752, the Senate approved Kinderman’s draft of a new line and by decree of 22 in March allowed “to defend the Siberian side from the raids of the Kyrgyz Kaisaks” ... to build between the Omsk fortress and the Zverno-Golovskaya 11 fortresses, the 33 redoubt and the 42 lighthouse, for the construction of which then started. So the Presnogorkovskaya or Gorky line of the Siberian army was formed (Omsk-Petropavlovsk-Presnogorkovsk), the construction of which was completed in the 1755 year.
  • qwert
    qwert 16 September 2015 09: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: Alibekulu
    Kazakhstan resident, too zealously calling for the reunification of Kazakhstan with Russia, received four years in places of not so distant "Pruffs or pidapac" Sir.

    Explain ... I still understood the second word, although I would like to clarify whose address. And the first thing about what ???
    1. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 16 September 2015 12: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: qwert
      I understood the second word
      Once understood, then where link, to "a resident of Kazakhstan, too zealously calling for the reunification of Kazakhstan with Russia, received four years in places not so remote."
      Quote: qwert
      I also understood the second word, although I would like to clarify at whose address
      "Prüffy or pidapac" steady expression in the internet, with the requirement to specify the source of information.
      Quote: vrach
      It was enough for the Russians to demonstrate their intentions and it worked.
      Even so no Why then Nagaybak writes that: "The Kazakhs still drove the Dzungars along the steppes for a long time."
      These Russian demonstrations are very reminiscent of the "last Chinese warning"
      Quote: qwert
      But, sorry, there was still no aggressive seizure of the Kazakhs by Russia. And Kazakhstan became part of the Russian Empire is different.
      It was not because the Kazakhs and the Dzhungars, the two wings of Mengi Ale, instead of maintaining good-neighborly relations, organized a fratricidal war and exhausted themselves so that they could not give an effective rebuff. Then the process of becoming part of the RI would wear a different color.
      As for the actions of the Russian Empire, it acted in its geopolitical interests, which is absolutely true and correct.
  • qwert
    qwert 16 September 2015 10: 06 New
    +4
    Quote: Alibekulu
    Maybe the author will call those great battles and bloody battles in which Russian troops, utterly defeated the Dzungars and the Manzhuro-Chinese ..?!

    Quote: vrach
    The Russians had enough and a demonstration of intentions and it worked. Yes, the Kazakh army subsequently defeated the Dzungars, but nevertheless, the Chinese did the main work, virtually destroying this people.

    I'm joining. No one takes away the Kazakh people their exploits, their glory and their heroes. We remember panfiloets, we remember Kazakhs - Heroes of the Soviet Union. I remember my colleagues too. good guys, a little cunning, but still reliable.
    But, excuse me, there was still no aggressive takeover of the Kazakhs by Russia. Here the British captured the Indian lands - this is one thing. And Kazakhstan became part of the Russian Empire, that's another. Culture, language, art, traditions, unless you have lost them. And in principle, in the Soviet Union all the republics were unshared
  • Nikita Gromov
    Nikita Gromov 16 September 2015 10: 08 New
    +2
    If it weren’t for the anti-Russian Bolshevik policy, which had divided and divided the peoples of the united Russian Empire into numerous national administrative republics and autonomies, with the majority of the Russian population living there, today Kazakhstan (or South Siberia), as well as a significant part of Central Asia, would not speaking of Ukraine and Belarus, they would be part of the Russian land. It is a fact.
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 16 September 2015 10: 26 New
      -3
      Those. Is everything that the Moscow Principality once captured has already become Russian land? Some kind of one-sided flow of material ...
      The expansion of the Moscow principality to the current state of Russia is by no means a peaceful annexation of orphaned lands actually ... in principle, like any empire ...
      1. dmb
        dmb 16 September 2015 12: 09 New
        +1
        Do not pay attention, this is another extreme from general illiteracy, no different from the "deliberate extermination of Kazakhs by Goloschekin" and "Russian occupation of Kazakhstan."
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 16 September 2015 12: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: Nikita Gromov
      If it were not for the anti-Russian Bolshevik policy, polished and fragmented the peoples of the united Russian Empire into numerous national-administrative republics and autonomies, with mostly Russian people living there, then today Kazakhstan (or Southern Siberia), as well as a significant part of Central Asia, is not speaking of Ukraine and Belarus, would have been part of the Russian land.
      Just the opposite. The policy of the Republic of Ingushetia towards the Kazakhs eventually led to the 1916 uprising of the year.
      And the Kazakhs despite the famine in 20-30-ies., Red October Goloschekin, repression against the national intelligentsia led to a loss of approx. 40% of the Kazakh population was not for fear, but for conscience they fought for Soviet power on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War.
      Probably so strong was the contrast with the position of the Kazakhs in the Russian and Soviet empires .. recourse
  • Sars
    Sars 16 September 2015 11: 28 New
    +2
    In Astana, in the summer, a cartoon on the Kazakh looked: Kazakh heroes on horseback, sabers naked, rush to the Russian troops (the form of the Russians of the early twentieth century). Russians are shooting Kazakhs from maxims and three-inches.
    Kazakhs die, but do not give up! And then cheers - victory, independence, a blue flag and a portrait of Nazarbayev, a hymn, happiness.
    Question: how do these allies differ from the Ukrainian brothers?
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 16 September 2015 11: 31 New
      +2
      Really what? !!! belay
      And what kind of cartoon is this, can you tell me?
    2. Andrey KZ
      Andrey KZ 16 September 2015 11: 48 New
      +10
      Quote: SarS
      Kazakhs die, but do not give up! And then cheers - victory, independence, a blue flag and a portrait of Nazarbayev, a hymn, happiness.

      I haven’t seen such a cartoon, but I’ve seen such a video,
      1. aleks_29296
        aleks_29296 16 September 2015 12: 20 New
        +7
        A good movie and there’s nothing to measure x ... mi, otherwise some are clearly impaired national pride plays. The peoples lived side by side, shared both grief and victories, and did not think of anyone who deserved more than others.
  • Zymran
    Zymran 16 September 2015 12: 47 New
    +3
    In fact, the Gorky Line fortresses were not built to protect the Kazakhs, but to protect them from the Kazakhs. :)
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 16 September 2015 14: 00 New
      +5
      Zymran "In fact, the Gorky Line fortresses were not built to protect the Kazakhs, but to protect them from the Kazakhs. :)"
      Actually, those fortresses about which the author wrote in the article were not built so much to protect the Kazakhs. How much to protect Russian interests. But the fact that these fortresses played a deterrent role against the Dzungars is also not worth denying, I think.))) Dzungars did not behave so brazenly.)))
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 16 September 2015 17: 07 New
      +6
      To protect the subjects of the Russian Empire. From all the others. He is a nomadic way of life: "It hurts my eyes when I see the neighbors' yurts." Today he gave shelter, tomorrow he flew in, robbed. It was said that cattle theft was “such a sport :)) And therefore there were fortresses, both from the Kazakhs, who were pushed into the back by the Dzungarian expansion, and from the dzungars, who were“ pushed ”by China, and from the Qingans, who were spinning all this" flywheel". And the fortress lines held back all 3 waves: persecuted, persecuted and persecuted, persecuting. That’s the whole story. And also about the “Kazakh victories”: a dispute about nothing. No one denies that the Kazakhs prevailed in separate skirmishes with the Dzungars. This is an integral attribute of nomadic wars. But the latter were "more state-owned," more organized, more numerous, and nothing was shining for Kazakh Zhuz. Naturally, this does not reduce the valor of Kazakh soldiers.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 16 September 2015 18: 13 New
        +6
        Quote: andrew42
        But the latter were “state-owned”, more organized, more numerous, and nothing shone here for the Kazakh zhuzas.
        Only the Kazakh civil strife was the main factor in the Djungarian victories.
        As soon as all the 3 Zhuz were united, the Djungars searched for the 5 corner.
        Banal Kazakhs were more. Mobresurs panimash ..
        And the Kazakhs understood this and therefore did not finish off the Kalmakov. "They de, if you need to always have time to stick", .. "That's the whole story"
        Quote: Nagaibak
        Dzhungary not so arrogantly behaved.)))
        Well so lol after all, they were not built on their land .. soldier
        What they had to strain
        Quote: aleks_29296
        and there is nothing here x ... we measure
        It repeat , and how without it ..
        From a joke: arguing 2 Negro - who has more;
        - I have 25
        - Fine yes And I have 37
        - belay Dunoon no And what is the measure?
        - than with a thermometer .. laughing
        1. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 16 September 2015 18: 45 New
          +1
          Alibekulu "Only Kazakh feuds were the main factor in the Dzungarian victories."
          THE JUNGAR INTERNATIONAL BABY ALSO INFLUENCED THE VICTORY LIKE KAZAKH SO AND MANCHUR.)))) AMURSAN THANKS FROM EVERYTHING.)))
          1. Zymran
            Zymran 16 September 2015 18: 56 New
            0
            A comprehensive article about Amursana

            http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/Mongol/Arch_mat_Amursana/frametext.htm
          2. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 17 September 2015 08: 29 New
            +1
            Quote: Nagaibak
            AMURSANE THANKS FROM EVERYONE.)))
            Amursana is not a cause; Amursana is a consequence. The struggle of the Dzungars on three fronts for almost a hundred years required a huge overstrain of the entire Dzungar ethnos, which depleted the strength of the people. Sooner or later, breakdown was to come. And Amursan or someone else does not really matter ..
            This was also observed among veterans of various conflicts. Having survived the extreme conditions of the war, they quietly passed away in peace and quiet time ..
            And the Kazakh-Jungar centenary war must be considered in the context of the expansion of the Qing Empire. Huntaiji need vast expanses of the Kazakh steppes as an operational rear in the event of a Manjour invasion, which eventually happened, and the Kazakhs themselves as "cannon fodder".
            Quote: gerbary_tex
            And even better to unite in one state

            We are ready to consider the protectorate of Kazakhstan over Russia soldier Apply for citizenship at the address - Republic of Kazakhstan, Astana, Left Bank, Residence of the President "Akorda".
            R.S. And thanks to the author for the article hi .
  • Semurg
    Semurg 16 September 2015 20: 15 New
    +6
    You can summarize the interim results. 1) Fortresses were built to promote and protect the interests of Ros. Empire, the protection of the Kazakhs was not in the first or even in tenth place. 2) The Manchu suffered the main defeat on the Jungars on the territory of Xinjiang) 3) there was not a single battle between the Russians and the Dzhungars on the territory of modern Kazakhstan, although the Dzungars entered the territory of the Kazakhs of the Republic of Ingushetia, all that the Russian administration did was 101 last Chinese warning 4) Kazakhs liberated their territory from the Dzungars on their own 5) Many fortresses turned into the cities of modern Kazakhstan 6) modern history in Kazakhstan is written for the Kazakhs, which indicate that there was a colonization of the Kazakh Khanate by the Russian Empire, where there were minuses and pluses (to which Russian history printing it’s barely suitable for lighting the 300 year old colonial past of the Golden Horde). 7) Of course we will not convince each other, but we will talk laughing .
    1. andj61
      andj61 16 September 2015 20: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Semurg
      modern history in Kazakhstan is written for the Kazakhs, which indicates that there was a colonization of the Kazakh Khanate by the Russian Empire, where there were minuses and pluses (to which Russian historiography is now hardly suitable when covering the 300 year old colonial period of the Golden Horde). 7) Of course we will not convince each other, but we will talk.

      Well, you have mixed! And the Golden Horde (i.e. the Turks) colonized Russia, what and the Russian Empire (meaning Russians) colonized the Kazakhs (the same Turks) what ! Great job! good And you can imagine it in a different way; There was one empire - a Turkic-Slavic empire called the Golden Horde, which broke up and after a series of different separate states a Slavic-Turkic Russian empire was formed. Compare the actions of the real colonialists - the British and the French, and then HOW they did business in their colonies with the actions of Russia or the Golden Horde - a huge distance. A historical fact - when Alexander 2 was offered to occupy Central Asia, his first reaction was "What will we feed them? There is terrible poverty!" The British did not bother with such questions at all.
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 16 September 2015 20: 51 New
        +4
        was the colonization of the Horde of ancient Russia and the colonization of the Russian Empire of the Kazakh Khanate. The only thing you say is the Horde was a bad metropolis, but Moscow saved and defended a good Moscow. They say the Horde was a good metropolis to save and protect, but Moscow is a bad metropolis (although the Soviet period is singled out as a separate topic, especially the late Brezhnev period).
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Astrahanec
    Astrahanec 17 September 2015 00: 15 New
    +3
    In short, guys, let's live together! It is better to be friends and trade than to fight and die! Leave the past dead. They understood each other as best they could. We need to live!
  • gerbary_tex
    gerbary_tex 17 September 2015 05: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Astrahanec
    In short, guys, let's live together! It is better to be friends and trade than to fight and die! Leave the past dead. They understood each other as best they could. We need to live!

    Better yet, unite in one state.
    1. Aposlya
      Aposlya 17 September 2015 10: 19 New
      +2
      We have enough of our bastiks for our eyes! We don’t need to impose Moscow ones either! We will not feed everyone! winked
  • gerbary_tex
    gerbary_tex 17 September 2015 06: 03 New
    0
    Quote: andj61
    Well, you have mixed! And the Golden Horde (that is, the Turks) colonized Russia, what and the Russian Empire (meaning Russians) colonized the Kazakhs (the same Turks) what! Great job! good And you can imagine it in a different way; There was one empire - a Turkic-Slavic empire called the Golden Horde, which broke up and after a series of different separate states a Slavic-Turkic Russian empire was formed.

    Absolutely agree. Yes, and the Manchus, the Kalmyk Dzhungars are also ours.
  • bumbarash
    bumbarash 17 September 2015 11: 02 New
    +5
    Russia did not build these fortresses for the Kazakhs, but primarily to protect its borders. It's just common sense to keep another empire at bay. In this case, the Kazakh steppes acted as a buffer in the event of a war with tsins. All the chatter -Ah, how good we are, we defended everyone! -Don't eat a damn egg. The Russian Empire defended its interests. Another thing is that these interests temporarily coincided with the interests of other peoples.
  • bumbarash
    bumbarash 17 September 2015 11: 16 New
    +1
    No Turkic-Slavic Empire Golden Horde did not exist. Otherwise, the hell needed the Battle of Kulikovo ?! Do not beg the achievements of your ancestors. Speaking Turkic-Slavic, what equality of peoples should be implied. However, in the Horde itself there were many slaves of the Slavs, you are silent about them vilely. About the slaves of the Mongols or Turks among the Slavs during this period I did not hear something.
    Russia has made a tremendous difficult journey from small principalities to a global empire. A sixth of the land is not Khuhra-Mukhra for you. As expected, an empire is not built solely on exhortations and peace treaties. Most of the land is the fruits of colonization. There are no and there were no empires in the world that would be created differently. Talking about fraternal friendship, unity and so on is just propaganda, an instrument of politics, nothing more. Every nation, nation has the right at any time to act in their own interests.
  • andrei.yandex
    andrei.yandex 17 September 2015 12: 28 New
    0
    Remezov’s annals are hidden, fake Radziwill’s PR
  • Starshina wmf
    Starshina wmf 17 September 2015 17: 32 New
    -1
    With the arrival of the Kalmyks in Russia, they waged war on the side of their new homeland on the southern borders of Russia. They defeated and drove out the Nogyts. They beat the Turks and Tatars with the Cossacks. They fought in all wars in the south of Russia. They took part with the Bashkir regiments in the North and World War 1812. . In the modern book on the history of Russia there is no mention of Kalmyks at all. Everywhere is the struggle of the Russian people. So maybe we have not gone far from the Ukrainians. Although Russia is a multinational country.
  • KLM77
    KLM77 20 September 2015 06: 22 New
    0
    It is ridiculous to read the comments of the representatives of the "great" Kazakh people)))
    Halmg is the self-name of the Kalmyks, Kalmak (one of the meanings of the apostate) arose as a result of the refusal to accept Islam, because The Kalmyk Khanate appeared before the defeat of the Dzungarian and, accordingly, there was no talk of any “remnants”.
    The Dzungars had all the tribes that now call themselves Kazakhs, as they wanted to oppose the military power of the Dzungar troops to separate tribes. You could pass off raids on the nomadic Dzungars as victories over them, but most of the time the majority of the Dzungar troops were on the march and defeat the defenseless nomadism was not difficult.
    The Dzhungar Khanate was defeated by the Manchus (Qing empire) thanks to the betrayal of the Amursans (called for their help) and the Kazakh tribes (who realized the danger of China and agreed to fight against the Chinese in alliance with the Dzungars, but they left the camp the night before the decisive battle) and subsequently the Kazakhs rushed). to kill the remnants of the Dzungar army and rob the nomads. This affects today, we do not trust Muslims and there will never be mosques in Kalmykia, Muslim houses of worship that arise from time to time are simply burned.
  • Ivan the Fool
    Ivan the Fool 3 October 2015 16: 37 New
    0
    Russian fortresses from Kazakhs !!!!
  • gabiden
    gabiden 16 February 2017 10: 17 New
    0
    Russia did not help the Kazakhs, on the contrary, in alliance with the Dzungars and Kalmyks, they wanted to seize our lands. Helped them with weapons. He set the Dzungars and Kalmyks on the Kazakhs, and under the guise of protection they built their fortresses. Received as always Vile.
  • gabiden
    gabiden 16 February 2017 10: 20 New
    0
    Russia Kalmyks used not only against the Kazakhs, they with the help of Kalmyks took the land of Nogais, conquered the Caucasus. But nothing came out against the Kazakhs.
  • gabiden
    gabiden 16 February 2017 10: 21 New
    0
    Despite the voluntary accession of the Kazakhs (first the Younger Zhuz, and then the rest) to Russia back in 1731, our ancestors another half century (!) Regularly attacked Russian villages and stole their inhabitants.
    “... Great harm happened from this people to citizenship, namely: every year they raided numerously, not only in Bashkiria, but in the Russian inhabitants of the Kazan and Siberian provinces, caused great ruin, and a lot of people were respected, especially on the side of the Siberian province, their last residences with their attacks from time to time devastated several hundred versts ... ”
    Moreover, the onslaught of the Kazakhs was sometimes so strong that a special 1500-kilometer barrier strip of felled trees and slingshots was additionally equipped! “In fact, more than half of the entire Russian cavalry was tied to the border service, and, therefore, was partially“ turned off the game ”in the event of a“ European war ”. Most of these forces were guarding the southern steppe borders. The total amount of annual costs for border protection (all - approx. Aut.) Amounted to 1 rubles –748% of the costs of maintaining the regular army or 757% ​​of the state budget of Russia. ”
    Note that we are not talking about the ghostly threats of a handful of steppes who shook spears at a safe distance from the ramparts. The attacks were regular and quite targeted. Historians report an average annual rate of 30-40 attacks on a fortified line, which means 2-3 times a month.
    During the Pugachev uprising, the number of such attacks increased sharply. So, in the summer of 1774, Kazakhs attacked the fortresses, attacked armed government units up to 240 times a month, an average of seven attacks per day.
    The appearance in the lists of the Yaitsky army of a special column for registering Cossacks who were killed or captured by Kyrgyz-Kaisaks (Kazakhs), under these conditions, can not be called random.
    As already noted, our ancestors also did not get along with the Bashkirs and Kalmyks for a long time and seriously. The Bashkirs lost under pressure from the Kazakhs part of the Urals lands. What is the “timidity" of the Kazakhs? “... Kaisaki (Kazakhs) poisoned and killed the Bashkirs, like wild animals, captured their wives and daughters, and gave out the survivors to the Russians. ... Kaisaki attacked the Kalmyks who crossed the Yaik River in January 1771 and crossed the steppes of the Lesser Horde in order to reach China. At the same time, many Kalmyks were captured by kaisaks; one Barack took up to 500 cabins. With the flight of Kalmyks to China, the steppe between the Volga and the Urals was liberated. ”
    At the same time, without suspecting it, our warlike, as it turns out, ancestors laid the future for Kazakhstan’s financial well-being. How? The most direct one: they expanded the borders of their nomads at the expense of the Trans-Ural territories of their neighbors - the Bashkirs and the Volga Kalmyks, defeating the uluses of Dorji Nazarov in the early 1730s. Kalmyks from the Northern Caspian were displaced - just now the famous Tengiz oil and gas field is located here.
    The Kazakh raids were so regular and devastating that the Russians (Rychkov writes about this) periodically had reasonable doubts about whether they needed such subjects? Here we can well agree with the modern point of view of historians who believe that "... the Kazakh khans and sultans did not attach serious importance to this diplomatic act" (accession to Russia - author's note). Judging by their actual actions, this is how it was, at least during the XNUMXth century.