Military Review

Nursultan Nazarbayev: to win independence - does not mean to preserve it

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Nursultan Nazarbayev: to win independence - does not mean to preserve it



On the eve of his 75th birthday, President of Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbayev told in an exclusive interview with First Deputy Director General of TASS Mikhail Gusman what he considers his main decisions as president, and also shared his plans for the future.



 



- Nursultan Abishevich, thank you very much for the opportunity to meet with you. We are meeting on the eve of, in my opinion, a very significant date not only in your life, but for the whole of Kazakhstan. Here I brought you some newspapers. This is the newspaper Pravda, this is the newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda. They are dated July 6th, 1940. There is a lot, by the way, about both Kazakhstan and Alma-Ata, even here it is written that the working people of Kazakhstan signed up for a new loan. True, to be honest, I did not find there a message from the Almaty region about the birth of a little boy, but on July 6, newspapers around the world will write that on this day the President of Kazakhstan Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev has an anniversary date.



- No, everyone will say on this day that this is the birthday of the capital of the new, the city of Astana. That's the problem.



- It's true. I want us to talk about Astana in precisely the vein that very few people in stories humanity has managed to be the builder of the capital. And you are. Returning to your anniversary, to be honest, it doesn't look like some kind of milestone. This, it seems to me, is a small stop, especially since just a few weeks ago, Kazakhstanis almost unanimously elected you for the 5th presidential term. With what mood do you meet this date?



- In a word, I meet you in a good mood. Because, glory to Allah, there is peace in our country. And not included in my personal life plans, the presidential elections, which this year turned out to be ahead of schedule and ended in such an impressive result for everyone. It certainly cheers up. Any politician, I think, will understand me correctly.



You started from your birthday. This is, you say, the average date or there what date. And in itself a considerable number, if you look, right? But why do we say that everything goes so fast in this life? Because the past, life lived, remain the most vivid moments in the memory of man. And so time is pressed. All the secondary is forgotten, all the vivid impressions remain and the time seems very short, because in our youth we look at the world as if with an upside-down binoculars - far, far ahead of thousands of years. And then, when the time comes, already normal binoculars, everything is already approaching. Therefore, a lot, of course, lived, passed. On the other hand - hard times were. On the other hand, it is an impressive time that another generation of Kazakhstanis will never repeat. I was not only a witness of the independence of my country, but also was one of the creators of this independence, this state. I will not use false modesty here, right? But I did not do it alone - with colleagues, with the people we created together. Therefore, there are impressions, thoughts about the past, there is satisfaction, there are big tasks that stand in the future - this is from dissatisfaction with what I did, because such is the role of the leader.  



- I, Nursultan Abishevich, when this time went to you in Astana, once again looked at your biography, very rich, very rich. And our program that we are doing is called, you know, "Formula of Power". And I thought that no one like you would be able to formulate this concept more precisely, this strange, probably tasting thing called power. You have been in power for at least three decades. Moreover, at the pinnacle of power. And everyone (the people of Kazakhstan, your colleagues) says that being at the top of power, you remain a person who does not abuse power. And feeling it, feeling it, at the same time, you remain an accessible, democratic person. What is power for your taste?



- In a word, I think it's hard to answer. Before me, all the wise men answered this question what power is. They said that power is evil. Money also does not give a person happiness. Therefore, it is better to free yourself of all this burden, to live the life of an ordinary person. This is happiness. But we, who have the share of being a leader, have to hold power - we must think differently, so I would formulate it in several positions. Power is first of all responsibility. The higher the position - the higher the responsibility. I, as the president, and other presidents have never had a jobless time. And on weekends, and during the holidays, you are on duty both day and night.



- You even once said that the best way to celebrate a birthday is to celebrate it in work. 



- Yes of course. At work, note. A birthday is just a date in life. Everyone has it. We are people. We love ourselves a little bit sometimes. Because we love ourselves - we love this day. We are waiting for him both in his youth and especially in his childhood. And now I don’t want this part, when they gather, everyone says. Then there is little sincerity, already stencil conversations go. It does not penetrate you, bounce like all the words like peas from the wall. But still nice, so birthday. Of course, birthday is a completely different meaning for me. Everything goes at work, and this time goes at work. Because it is the day of our capital. And I, if you really frank to the end ...



- I will not tell anyone!



- Well, of course! About 6 July - how the date of Astana's birthday came about. On December 10, 1997, I signed a decree on the transfer of the capital. It was Wednesday. Then we counted out exactly 6 months, on Wednesday, June 10, we wanted to announce a nationwide, worldwide presentation that a new capital had appeared. Then I remembered that in 1994, on July 6, at a session of the Supreme Soviet of Kazakhstan, I first convinced the parliament to make a decision to move the capital to Akmorinsk, or the city of Akmola.



On July 6, I went to parliament because no one agreed with me. 1994, devastation, collapse of the Soviet Union. The state has no money to pay pensions. And we do not pay wages to teachers, doctors, police, we detain them for several months. And at this time I say: "We must move the capital." The new state must have new points of growth, do something new, a turn from what it was. And no one perceived me. On his birthday, as you say, he came to work. I went to the session of the parliament, asked to speak, and, speaking with a request to adopt a resolution, I propose a draft of this case. Everyone started performing again. Naturally, I did the work among the deputies who favored this idea and me personally. It means that they also started performing ...



- The president as a lobbyist is a different story altogether.



- Well, of course, the question must be passed in any way. This is your art, this is your desire. And then one of the respected deputies says: "Listen, dear comrade deputies. Even if we make a decision, this will happen in about 30-40 years. In 30-40 years, this capital will be, because everything needs to be built. And today he has birthday. Let him go home in a good mood, let's make a decision. " And so the decision was actually made. Therefore, on July 6, so that there are no big conversations around my person, that it coincided with my birthday and this is some kind of symbolism.  



- This is not just symbolism, it seems to me that it is a natural holiday of the Kazakh people. But the respected deputy was cheating a little, because he assumed that only in 30-40 years the capital would spread widely, but now you look at Astana - only 20 years have passed. And she…



- It did not pass. The construction of the city is only 14 years old ...



- Yes, fantastic. You spoke about the decision to build Astana, as, perhaps, one of the main decisions during your presidential term. After all, for 25 years of independent Kazakhstan - all these years you are at the head of the country. The incredible has been accomplished, the country has become a modern state respected in the international arena. What else of those decisions that you have taken do you consider the most significant, the most important for the country, for the people, for striving for the future?



- If you take a look at the history of Kazakhs and Kazakhstan, everything has happened here in its entire history. Many peoples migrated through Kazakhstan. Starting from the ancient Sakas, Huns, the Turkic Kaganate, many peoples, many religions, etc. passed through us. here, the Kazakhs are very used to it. And throughout history there have been khanates, several on the territory. But such a state as now, in this volume, outlined by internationally recognized borders, with all the attributes of a state and with such economic and political ties with all countries of the world - this has never happened in history.



I stood at the origins of the construction of the first in the history of Kazakhstani state in today's understanding. Of course, this is the main thing that I was able to do together with my colleagues, together with the Kazakh people. This is the main and first thing. But declaring independence, winning independence is not the same thing as preserving it. Those. preserving independence, strengthening the country is no less important. And it also succeeded. In fact - from scratch. The state, the republic out of 15 - was one of the most recent. Today it is one of the best in terms of reforms, in terms of economic indicators. This is the second. Third, of course, the new capital. This is pride, I will not hide. Just like building a state, this is a pride for Kazakhstan.



- In today's turbulent world, Nursultan Abishevich, I would like to touch upon one of your decisions, which, I think, is very significant. At one time, it was you who made the decision to make Kazakhstan a nuclear-free state, remove the nuclear weaponlocated in Kazakhstan during the Soviet era. Why did you make this decision, the more natural you thought about how to preserve the independence of Kazakhstan. And, it would seem, this type of weapon adds such opportunities. But you, nevertheless, refused it?



- Well, a lot has already been said about this. And it is written about it. It is known, indeed, that during the collapse of the Soviet Union on the territory of Kazakhstan there was the world's second nuclear test site in Semipalatinsk, the most powerful. 550 nuclear charges were tested there, including the first hydrogen bomb. This is a separate issue. More than a million people have suffered in our country, and we are still dealing with the consequences. The question was, in fact, that the world's 4th nuclear missile arsenal with carriers, aircraft, launchers - everything would be on edge. And these were the most powerful missiles, the Americans called Satan, SS-18, ballistic missiles that reached the United States in 28 minutes and placed them closer to the equator. Well, experts consider this to be the best, why Baikonur is located here ... It was an ideal place for launching these rockets into orbit. And they were here.



In general, Kazakhstan ranked fourth in terms of the number of arsenal after the United States, Russia and Great Britain. You know what was posted in Ukraine and Belarus. There was a very big dispute, leaders from both Europe and the United States came several times, there were negotiations. And naturally, we, a young state that has not yet fledged, has not yet risen from its knees, still become an outcast because of these nuclear missiles? How are some now, huh? Moreover, I knew for sure - against each nuclear missile in one country, another country had already aimed. It's the same now.



- Absolutely right, yes, yes, yes.



- Of course, the task was about what is beneficial for Kazakhstan: first, to obtain guarantees of independence from nuclear countries that they will never attack Kazakhstan. Secondly, get money for dismantling and get money for these nuclear missiles. And leave all the equipment in Kazakhstan. All these issues have been resolved, as you remember. We received money for fuel for nuclear missiles. We received money for dismantling. And we also received the corresponding money for the re-equipment of factories so that they would produce peaceful goods. And I think that it was after this that the trust went to Kazakhstan. And over the years, we have attracted more than $ 200 billion in foreign direct investment. These are not loans. And it was this money that raised the economy of Kazakhstan. I think we made the right decision. And so far, therefore, Kazakhstan is considered a state-leader in the struggle for a nuclear-free world. For the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. Isn't that noble?



- Absolutely.



- It causes respect for us. Therefore, all world summits and meetings at all levels take place here.



- You said, Nursultan Abishevich, that the territory of Kazakhstan since ancient times was a place through which different nations moved, settled here. Today people of more than 100 nationalities live here. Confessions of 40 denominations. In the village of Chemolgan where you were born, even on your street were children of Balkarians, Chechens, Volga Germans. Your dad even spoke, in my opinion, in Balkar language. Perhaps these childhood memories, feelings of childhood somehow contributed to this internationalist formation of your character. And on the other hand, how is it still a very worrying topic in the world today, is the preservation of inter-ethnic peace being achieved? Interfaith peace? Why does Kazakhstan become the venue for forums, summits, interfaith communication, inter-ethnic communication?



- In fact, you started to ask the question correctly. I have a very good immunity from nationalism since childhood. And these Balkars, when they were resettled to us, arrived hungry, beggars, one family settled in our house. A small rural hut with two rooms. In one, a husband, wife and three children huddled together. Why did my father speak Balkar and we all spoke ...



- You know, I was very impressed, Nursultan Abishevich, that your father, out of respect for this family, which in fact constrained your family ...



- very much squeezed ...



- And he learned their language.



- And he learned the language, then there were a lot of Balkars in our village. And he talked to them calmly. And to work with them, the collective farm board instructed my father to work with them. He was also their foreman, and everyone came to him for advice. And they were very respected. They came, I remember, we always had these different people. And our street was called "Podgornaya", the most mountainous street to the mountains is ours. The village is located in the foothills. And on the contrary, as I remember myself, Semisanzharov lived, an invalid of the Great Patriotic War, he was very friendly with my father. His wife, Aunt Dusya, was friends with my mother. By the way, last year I came to Aktyubinsk and visited a new hospital. I come up - they say that a woman here says that she knows you. I come - this is Aunt Dusya. She is already over 80 years old, lying there. He says that thanks to you, we live here with my granddaughter, here I am being treated, etc. and I sat next to her and remembered.



- Awesome.



- Yes. And on this side Prikhodko lived, probably Ukrainians, I don't even know who they were. Nearby, the neighbor is true - Melnichenko. On this side was Yakushev. And on this side was Nosov. And these Melnichenko, Volodya and Vitaly, they were my friends. Classmates. This is how we grew up. And in general there was no understanding of who belonged to what nationality. That's how fate turned out. And then, when I started working at a metallurgical plant, there were nine people in the brigade - I would never have thought, then, when they counted - each was of different nationalities. Each. Whoever was there. There was a German, a Russian, a Ukrainian, a Kazakh, a Tatar, a Jew, and someone else. Amazing, huh? We did not feel that we were of different nationalities. This, so to speak, is my story. 



Therefore, when the state was built, we turned out to be multinational by the will of fate. How multinational we have become - I told you. 550 thousand North Caucasians were deported to Kazakhstan. Volga German Republic, 800 thousand, deported to Kazakhstan. In general, it began with the Stolypin reforms, when Ukrainians and Russians were resettled here. Somehow the empty lands were called, although nothing was empty here. And then virgin lands. One and a half million settlers from all over the Soviet Union. Thus, Kazakhstan has become multinational. For a while, even I became a minority in my native land, do you understand? Now Kazakhs make up almost 70% of the population.



We found ourselves in such conditions. The Soviet Union collapsed. People started leaving, leaving. Two and a half million, or about three, left. Those who came to the virgin lands went home. The Greeks left for Greece, the Germans, especially a lot, 600 thousand - moved to Germany, to their historical homeland. To Belarus, to Ukraine. There were many military factories here, many on business trips. They have moved. The Soviet Union as a roof ceased to exist, people felt insecure. A nation state is being built here. Although I said that you are all needed here. You will not find such an attitude anywhere. You are Russians, but you are Kazakh Russians. And indeed it turned out so. But until now: you come to Germany - they meet with great pleasure. When I visit Tel Aviv, they meet me at the hotel. At first I thought, what is some kind of rally? No, they say, it is Kazakhstani Jews who meet you and want to say thank you. So everywhere. And it's nice. So they found a normal existence here in the difficult years of the Great Patriotic War, resettlement. In addition to this resettlement, there was a transfer of factories from the occupied territories. All Mosfilm was in Alma-Ata, if you remember. Famous artists and everyone ...



- Of course. And the films were shot during the war here are wonderful.



- Yes. The film "Ivan the Terrible" was filmed in Alma-Ata. And many such films were shot. So that's how it became. And now what i can do? Start dividing them by nationality, piece by piece? And then the idea of ​​creating the Assembly of the Peoples of Kazakhstan came up. Where everyone's voice will be heard. Everyone can create and preserve their language, their culture, their history. We now have cultural centers in all regions and regions. They delegate their plenipotentiaries and I chair this session of the assembly every year.



It has become the mouthpiece and voice of the nations of all peoples. Now this assembly is being studied by everyone as an experience in the conditions of many living. We have proved to everyone that multiculturalism is not a disadvantage. Multi-faith is not a disadvantage either. You said that about 100 ethnic groups live here. More than 20 religious denominations. And thank God, they all live peacefully here. Everyone goes to pray wherever he wants. And everyone perceives this as normal. I think - in general, it should be so in humanity. Humanly. We are all people, first of all, people, right? And when we are born, we are simply born as human beings. Growing up we learn from our parents who we are and we can have different things, hair color is different, eye color is different with us. Our speech is different. But we are people. And we must live like human beings everywhere and everywhere. This is where I come from. Therefore, representatives of world religions gather in Kazakhstan. Now there will be the 5th Congress ...



- Yes, literally, soon.



- Invite you.



- Thank you.



“And so they gather here and discuss all the issues that need to be discussed, and they have not found another place. And just because of our such tolerance. Everyone is studying how it happened, how it happened. There was a session recently. The Assembly put forward the idea of ​​holding early presidential elections in connection with the events here everywhere. So they also delegate their deputies to the country's parliament, have a vote there, make decisions on the adoption of laws, etc.



- Hundreds of thousands of Russians living in Kazakhstan really perceive Kazakhstan as their beloved homeland and are not ready to change it. Maybe this is partly why, but probably not only therefore Russia and Kazakhstan are the closest neighbors and friends. In my opinion, during all the years of your presidency nothing spoiled the Russian-Kazakh relations, although, probably, when you are talking with our President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, there are some questions and discussions. But the strategic partnership of our countries is obvious. And yet, maybe this is such a, well, not a festive question. Where, in your opinion, are the potentials in the relations of Russia and Kazakhstan not realized? What should be done to realize all the possibilities?



- We must start with the most important thing. If you look, so to speak, from the outside, on everything, as de Gaulle said, you must look at everything from the stars. Then you can see better.



- Well, he was the tallest, easy to look at.



- If there is a problem - look from the stars. Then you will see it in such a different plane, of a different magnitude, and you will see more. If you look like this, I think that no one has such close, trusting relations as Kazakhstan and Russia. And since 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed, these relations have never been darkened. But in everyday life, problems always arise between two neighboring states. We began calmly with Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin. Now a lot of things are said about him. In general, where is ours, maybe the Russians and Kazakhs, the former is necessarily bad. In general, the king is not important, right? But in England, kings are all good. Whatever they are, what they just did, if you look at history - they are all good. And we have all the bad ones.



If I'm bad, why did you choose this one for yourself? It is better to respect your history. We must say what was bad, but respect.



- One hundred percent.



- Still, Yeltsin turned Russia from communism to liberal politics. Although they hang on him that the Soviet Union destroyed it, there was such a situation then. He fell apart without him. Even during Gorbachev's time, we saw all this well. Crawled at the seams. And already it was necessary to do something about it. And then we were solving issues, difficulties were, for example, to draw the border in the middle of the Caspian. This is a whole complex question. Or build an oil pipeline across the North Caspian to Novorossiysk. It took five years to negotiate. Sometimes they were angry, sometimes they took offense at each other, but decided. You know, we have advisers all around, assistants who say: "eh, don't." Or seven and a half thousand kilometers of Kazakhstan's border with Russia. No one else has such a long border. And every kilometer of this border had to be described. And this is from tsarist times. And with China? These issues have not been resolved for 300 years. And you have to walk near each village. Sometimes the Soviet administrative boundaries were in the middle. Here Kazakhs live, there they live. These want to live there, these want here. How many of these problems were. But thanks to trust, mutual understanding, we solved all this. Therefore, if I answer specifically to your question, I believe that we have solved many questions.



The Eurasian Economic Union, which was created thanks to the goodwill of first of all Kazakhstan and Russia, not counting the costs that are now associated with the general decline of the economy, is the right integration. And we are moving in the right direction. If we consider that the European Union was created 50 years, and we only spoke in the eighth year, I think we are developing at a normal pace. Now there are no customs borders, people can easily cross. Capital is moving, people are moving, the economy is moving - this is already creating the conditions. What are the difficulties? Difficulties always arise. The fluctuation of the ruble was recently in the fall. Immediately cheaper cars in our case. Our ran to buy. Well, for a man it is good, he bought a car at 30 percent cheaper than ours. And these machines bought 60 thousands. And we have automobile plants ...



- It was also an action of friendship in relation to Kazakhstan.



- No, it was no longer friendship. This is the economy. Those were selling, but where to sell ours? And we divided the market. Such was the situation, we were worried, what is it - the Eurasian Union is bothering us. But we quickly solved it, because we have such a relationship. We agreed, decided all this there, now it is normalizing. Russia and Kazakhstan have identical economies. We are raw material countries. We export oil, gas, metals, silver, gold, etc. and we don't have an industry. Do you understand? So I think the most difficult issue is the underdevelopment of the industry in Russia and Kazakhstan. Since 2008, we have been pursuing a policy of industrial and innovative development. I would like it to be carried out in parallel in Russia as well, and we have already begun to interact in industry, in innovation, in science.



- You mentioned the Eurasian Union. In fairness, I must say that the idea of ​​the Eurasian Union belongs to you. You have already expressed it for a long time, Vladimir Vladimirovich warmly supported it, both Russia and Kazakhstan have become the cement of this union. Kazakhstan is located in the very center of Eurasia. In your opinion, how promising is Eurasianism as a phenomenon, as an economic movement forward? The Eurasian Union still unites few states. How do you see the prospects for expanding this commonwealth?



- Personally, my reasoning in this matter goes very far. If we were all normal, in Europe and Asia, this is one subcontinent. Europe cannot live without Asia. Europe needs Russia, needs Kazakhstan, our resources. We need their technology. And goods of high necessity. We need their science, we need their technology. Those. we are complementary. And I am sure that normal times will come and the economy will live without politics, namely to improve people's lives for the present. Then there will be free trade between Europe and the Asian continent, I mean not only Russia and Kazakhstan, but also with China, Japan and India. Mutual trade. It is the economy that creates the basis for calm and stability in all countries. If I trade with any country, it is very important for me that it is calm there. And vice versa. Those. They wish each other peace of mind, want to trade in peace, come peacefully. I am confident that the time will come when the Eurasian Union will truly become Europe and Asia. And it is already moving towards this.



Here is the idea for the Silk Road. President of the People's Republic of China Xi Jinping was here and speaking at the university announced the Silk Road Economic Belt. Those. these are roads, highways and railways, and this is the development of the economy along this path. This is also the union. We are building a road from the Pacific Ocean to Western Europe. We are building a railway. Isn't that Europe-Asia? We will come to this. I see exactly the ideological subcontinent.



- Of course, it’s not the business of a journalist to criticize, especially during an interview, well, not the president, but ...



- Please.



- You talked about the various directions of development of Kazakhstan. It seems to me that the potential is not realized in tourism. After all, Kazakhstan is an amazing country. There are so many beautiful places, one Borovoye worth something. Unique It is called Kazakhstani Switzerland. Switzerland rests in relation to Borovoye. Why do people know this direction little and know little abroad? It is about Kazakhstan not as a power, which is developing, which has its own training ground or something else, but exactly as a place where tourists really want to come?



- Yes it is. But all this requires an investment. During these 20 years, the first five years we were somersaulting about how to survive. And then the next 10 years developed at a rate of 7-10%. Accumulated fat, right? When we accumulated fat, so as not to depend on the price of oil and gas, we began to build an industry. 770 new enterprises have been built in five years, one and a half million jobs have been created. Now the second five-year plan is underway. Now we have taken up the infrastructure program, to develop a network throughout Kazakhstan. We have the ninth territory in the world. Huge. And in 3-5 years we will cover the whole of Kazakhstan with railroads and highways. More than 5000 kilometers will be built highways, railways from east to west, because without this there will be no tourism. And still huge agrarian affairs are before us. Kazakhstan, like Russia, is rich in land. Unused. Food becomes more scarce every year. Humanity is increasing, by the year 50 there will be 9 billion people. Consumption will rise by 40% and food will be the best source of business. You have to invest there. Therefore, now, when we have put it on the shelves, first we need to determine what is primary. Now we are approaching tourism ...



- So, I asked the right question now?



- Right. First, we have chosen three points. Alma-Ata is great for mountain tourism. Winter mountain. Everything is prepared there. And wonderful mountains, exceptionally beautiful. We are there now laying a huge new tourist complex. Not only Medeu, not only Chimbulak, but also in other gorges. This time.



The second point of growth is, of course, Borovoe. Where the first five-star hotel was built. Right now, there were prime ministers, and you saw on Russian television that we are starting to develop it.



And the third huge layer is the south. It was the Silk Road, where the ancient cities were, where the first khanates arose. Where did all the events take place between the Syr Darya and Amu Darya. All this way is littered with historical artifacts, buildings, rooms, ruins, etc.



We are starting to develop tourism in three places. What do you need? Good roads, good hotels, good service. Without this, it will not be. So this is a very big question for us. I think Russia also faces this question. Huge, beautiful. Now we were able to visit everywhere in the world, in the best places, one might say. And you always come home - there is no better place. I think everyone has that feeling.



- It's all true. It's all true



- Yes. And I think that's why I went there? Yesterday I arrived from Borovoe, went there. It's just that Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev and I met in the evening and walked, walked. He says - this air is not only drunk, the smell is! Indeed, Borovoe was recognized by the All-Union Health Resort because of the absolute purity of the air. And because these mountains are granite, the granite heats up, heats up the roots of the pine trees, the pine trees give off an exceptional aroma and the air is completely clean there. No germs.



- Immediately I wanted to turn to you with a selfish request - when we celebrate the anniversary of Astana, maybe there will be an opportunity to give us an interview already in Borovoye, because we need Borovoye and the world to know. Or at least the Russians.



- But you saw the same! You can now go and shoot everything.



- Okay. Do you know what I thought, Nursultan Abishevich? You started your journey at the blast furnace, in the hottest workshop. 



- Yes, with a shovel and crowbar.



- We informants are always interested when our colleagues noticed you. I know that there was even a TV program about you, the young forge-keeper. Then again, on the only beginning Kazakh television. I found the very first mention of you in the newspaper. Moreover, this is a Kazakh newspaper, in the Kazakh language. She is 1958. You were 18 then. And then, in the newspaper, you wrote a letter to your Chinese friend. Remember?



- Of course I remember.



- I really cannot read it now, because it is in Kazakh. But it was published in the newspaper. If you look at your life today, it, in my opinion, is not very different, it is a real hot shop. I asked your colleagues, my colleagues in your press service, they gave me a list of your trips for the year - well, probably seven sweats have gone away, even more than at the blast furnace. You cannot be caught, you are all the time either in the regions, or on trips, or you hold some kind of official meetings and events. Where do you get your energy from?



- This is different. Different sweat and different load.



Hay is said to smell differently for a lover and for a stallion. There is a lot of physical activity, yes. But then there is no nervous load there. I worked it out, my muscles are tired. Came, rested - ready again. It is also necessary to think there, of course, but there is a different category. It’s impossible to directly compare my work with physical activity, because the presidential work is intellectual work. These trips are all you are talking about are negotiations. And we need to prepare for negotiations. I always tried to make my partner understand me after my negotiations, and Kazakhstan turned out to be a friend. In most cases, this was the case.



You started with the question of power. Much has been said about power. It is the responsibility that hangs on your neck, which never gives you rest - you think in a dream, and in reality you think about another problem that needs to be solved. Now, when we have worked for 20 years, have reached an average level of prosperity, we are considered a moderately developed country, a country of a market economy, we are included in the list of 50 competitive countries, in the 20 most interesting countries for investment, the World Bank has noted us - and now we can be trapped in the middle class like the others were.



- So.



- 12 -13 thousand dollars per person - many countries in Southeast Asia stopped at this moment, did not go further. Those. One idea, on which you go, rests, like in production, there is nothing new for me, as in a factory. One scientific approach, one decision, one management decision - it gives productivity. Growing at 20 percent, no longer growing. Now we need science, now we need new knowledge to raise 10 percent. That's about this we rested on, so I chose to conduct five new reforms with the electoral program, do you understand?



And they are very complex, these questions. The first is a normal state apparatus serving only the people. And it is impossible to change it, as the boss wanted. He makes good money, works honestly, he does not go into corruption and decides all the issues that the people need to solve. Is it the same everywhere in Europe? Not like ours. There are all sorts of officials. There are such, and there are grabbers. And who became a little boss - already underfoot the ground does not see and there are such. Based on the experience of many countries, we want to make public service accountable to the people and the state.



The second. Law supremacy. That the court fairly solved all problems between business, problems of the person. And on these two legs small and medium business and economy will truly develop. And then we want to make the multinational people identical. So that everyone feels like a Kazakhstani first of all. He loved this land, this homeland, because Kazakhstan gives him everything and he also answers to the country with his work, his attitude, do you understand?



And third, fifth, it is an accountable state, i.e. strung one to the other, well, this is a very difficult job I started. And this is not easy, and, of course, there will be resistance. The reluctance of the old apparatus. But the time has come to radically change, because we are still living in the Soviet period. I can't even blame those judges who were brought up there. But he did not become today's judge. He has a different mentality. Now, it's time to change, then. In public service, meritocracy is called. According to merit. Should not step over. The boss should not bring a brother, a matchmaker, a godfather, a friend. And he must, according to knowledge, having passed all the levels of power, rise up. And I must deserve this job. And this can be done, we are not the first, there is such an experience. We have studied. They studied Singapore and studied the Germans. And the Americans have learned how to do it.



And in exactly the same way, now everything has come to one point. Development of Kazakhstan and these reforms. And in Astana Expo 2017. On 130 hectares, we are building a huge complex that will change the face of Astana. May God let us live. You will arrive in 2017, a completely new city will appear in the city. With such unique buildings that will be shown all over the world. This one main pavilion is a sphere of 120 meters in diameter, inside which there will be a laboratory for all types of unconventional energy. All companies in the world can come and do their experiments there. It will exist at Nazarbayev University. That’s all. And as soon as the Expo ends, all these buildings are transferred to the International Financial Center, which will become Astana. Astana - International Financial Center. You know, such a task now stands, so there is no time to chill. And these are very difficult questions.



- Nursultan Abishevich, you also inspired us to prepare for Expo 2017, and with God's help I will ask you to tell us at the end how happy you will be, how it went. You are talking about your great capital, Astana. If you have such an opportunity, maybe we will see the capital together with you? For even a few minutes, there is no better guide to the capital of Kazakhstan than the person who created it.



- I will not hide that I am very proud. I travel to the city day and night and, as they say, I do not believe my eyes. You looked last night?



- Of course. For two years, how many I was not in Astana, it is changing before our eyes.



- I worked with Dzhigarkhanyan just like you. He was shooting a movie. And he said: "Astana is like waking up in the morning and finding myself in a Hollywood movie." I understand him. How do I feel? It was a run-down provincial town. About 200 thousand population. This year in Astana there will be 900 thousand, a million will soon be in this city. A million people.



Every stone, every foundation was laid with my participation. Not a single building began to be built until I looked at the architectural appearance, its design and its facade. The city in which we live - we are like northern people in Russia - it’s winter here for six months. When the green leaves, the buildings themselves, the houses should decorate this city. And the color should be special. When I travel around the world, I liked some building - I come, I do. Here there are dancing houses.



- Like an architectural exhibition. Each house - it has its own absolutely unique architecture ...



- Here, I came to China, the Chinese Oil Company works, I say I will build a hotel, but only with Chinese architecture. Do you see standing here? There are Spanish houses here. And now, along the coast to the right, the French Quarter is being built, the complete architecture of Paris. Italian quarter, English quarter, etc. Here, this is a Eurasian city. The first building that I began to build is the Gumilyov Eurasian University. Remember?



- Yes, of course.



- Because Astana stands as a point, the geographical center of the Eurasian continent. Taking Europe and Asia together - this is Astana the very center. Dot. And the most amazing thing is that excavations have found, 14 kilometers near Astana, a city, an old city, called Buzokl, it was the capital of the Huns. That passed here once. The rate was central. Therefore, any building built here is like a song for me. I know the whole story. Now I represent young people who think it was all 100 years old. The same as us? Moscow - as if it were so, everything was so. And here, where we are sitting, in 2002 there was a steppe, reeds grew on the shore. There was nothing. Nothing. And now such a city. Of course, all Kazakhstanis are proud. And I am very proud. So it's done by hand. Together with our people. Well, they say, of course, that he spent a lot of money. For construction ...



- Well, you built the capital, not built your house ...



- First, I answer: what is the millionth city built? This is an asset of this state.



This is the wealth of the country. It originated on our land. This is our property and this wealth is all built. Yes, about four trillion tenge has been spent here in our currency. And 60 percent of them are private investments. But now Astana, the annual gross domestic product is over 4 trillion tenge. And he already pays about ten billion tenge to the treasury every year. Those. it all paid off. Everything came to its own. People from all regions of Kazakhstan come here. They are here, they want to be, and again, multi-ethnic, multi-ethnic peoples mix here, everyone lives together. Everything here is for human life.



And I want the city to become even more a favorite place, where a person is comfortable and joyful to live. First, he must live in a good house. It should have good places to relax, for dinner. Restaurants of all stripes, what countries are not there? Here, go to the Khan tent, go in. There are all the boutiques in the world that you want. First, the best schools for children, the most modern. Intellectual schools of Kazakhstan, there are 20 of them, two English schools work here. And the International University is here, another university. Everything is there for education. And healthcare is the best here. The third is culture. The theater, opera and ballet of Astana is the best opera house on the Eurasian continent. I watched the Parisian opera. I watched the Vienna Opera. I watched opera in Singapore. I watched the Sydney Opera. All of these have made such an opera house, a concert hall for 3,5 thousand seats. Pyramid, look. The Historical Museum is huge. Those. everything that is necessary for the capital is already there.



And now, as I tell you, the rebirth will be Expo. The tallest buildings in Europe and Asia will be built here. 80 floors. Now the 10th floor is already being completed. And this is how the capital will be, and people like to come here, as you know, all kinds of world affairs take place here. OSCE, 56 states, heads of state came here. Islamic states, 57 states held their forum. There is nowhere else to hold such religious summits when everyone - the chief imam of Iran and the rabbi of Israel - can greet here. The only place I'm serious about. And that's good. They understand that they can talk, and not wave their fists at each other. These are our features. Once my old friend Shimon Peres, I have known him for a long time, friends we are with him, came, sit with him, talk. He says: "Mr. President, if I were in your place - I woke up in the morning, I see China with one eye, I see Russia with the other, two empires - I would feel bad." I say no, it's worse for you when you wake up. You are surrounded by unfriendly and friendly neighbors. And in this case, we must take advantage of this situation. There is no exit to the oceans. We have an ocean - China for trade. Ocean Russia. Two oceans side by side. Although we have already connected with the ocean, the Pacific Ocean. Through China, the port of Lengan, we have our own terminal. What other tricky questions will we have?



- Nursultan Abishevich, here I look - this is the anthem of Kazakhstan. The author of words is Nursultan Nazarbayev.



- No, the main thing is Shamshi Kaldayakov.



“But I think your hand is felt here, too.”



- Shamshi Kaldayakova music, and our famous poet Nazhimedenov, and I just, the story is this: first we left the music of the old anthem. We got used to singing Soviet, but the words changed non-Soviet. But the words turned out to be cumbersome, awkward. And it was hard to sing, it was hard for the people. I remembered that, for example, France has a favorite folk melody, "Marseillaise". And our favorite folk song was "My people, my country". Everybody sang it. Written during the rise of virgin soil. There is a golden steppe, wheat is everything. It remains, golden wheat. And the steppe remains, and the sky remains. This is normal. But some about our striving for independence, striving for the future - these are the words I, without spoiling the main points, added here and there. Changed the chorus a bit. And with the permission of the author's relatives, we wrote. So I ended up just a co-author. Little co-author.



- A national flag. The color of the flag, as far as I know, there is a very interesting story.



- Yes. Announced a competition on state symbols. Flag, coat of arms and anthem, of course. But the flag provided was about 1000 offers. Various, I will not say. And here again I participated. We had three parts there, three colors are necessary. Green, Muslim is necessary. Etc. etc. But a single color astral unites the unity of the country. Kazakhstan is one, not divided, see? And no contention ...



- But the color is absolutely unique. He is nowhere, not one flag of the world anymore.



- We originate from Tengriism. Tengri is the sky. And the blue sky. The eternal blue sky has always been the flag of our ancient ancestors, and we took this color. And on the coat of arms there is a mythical horse with legs, it is taken from the clothes of a golden warrior. 2500 years old, Saka prince, we dug out the clothes, the rest was attached. This is the top of the yurt, shamrak, we live under a common house. These are the rays of the sun. Eternal blue sky, we live under one shamrak and golden sun. 

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  1. VadimSt
    VadimSt 7 July 2015 05: 27
    +4
    In the heading "lines are torn out", which somewhat distorts Nazarbayev's words
    But declaring independence, gaining independence is not the same thing
    I don’t think that this is correct, in the same way, you can snatch part of this article, and then develop the thought in any direction. Including - from whom they were defending themselves, who exactly encroached on independence, is it not connected with the transfer of the capital to Tselinograd, with this attempt, and so on. This is how the ground for waging information wars is created. Who we have said: - "Equate the pen to the bayonet ..?".
    1. ASK505
      ASK505 7 July 2015 19: 48
      -4
      The transfer of the capital to a neoplasm - Astana had as its goal to stake out territories with the historically Russian population beyond Kazakhstan. It seems they removed the Cyrillic alphabet and replaced it with the Latin alphabet. These are steps to supplant the Russian language and everything that is connected with Russia from the history of this newly formed quasi-state. Not from a good life, Russians left and leave from the Kazakhs. They are also Europeans.
      1. marshes
        marshes 7 July 2015 19: 59
        +2
        Quote: ASK505
        The transfer of the capital to a neoplasm - Astana had as its goal to stake out territories with the historically Russian population beyond Kazakhstan.

        Moved to Akmolinsk, damn the Russian name, then Tselinograd further Akmola .... smile
        Quote: ASK505
        . It seems they removed the Cyrillic alphabet and replaced it with the Latin alphabet. These are steps to displace the Russian language

        Russian in Latin? smileOr maybe Kazakh, who was in Latin before the 40s of the last century, he still had sticks in Arabic and then managed to write on runes. laughing
        Quote: ASK505
        . These are steps to supplant the Russian language and everything connected with Russia.

        Just not interesting.
        Quote: ASK505
        Not from a good life, Russians left and leave from the Kazakhs. They are also Europeans.

        Yes, in the 90s those who didn’t go where, most of them went to their historical homeland, some over the hill and where to go to the Kazakh, if you do not live in the capital. You could stretch your legs with hunger. They don’t shower with loans, like some. , Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and South Korea.
      2. Yereke
        Yereke 7 July 2015 22: 12
        -5
        close the chovik. - with the historically Russian population beyond Kazakhstan -))) nonsense, it’s better to return the first capital of the Kazakh SSR, then Orenburg !!!!
      3. Yereke
        Yereke 7 July 2015 23: 01
        -3
        better return Orenburg if CrimeaOur at your place
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 8 July 2015 03: 03
          +3
          Quote: Ereke
          better return Orenburg if CrimeaOur at your place

          Something tells me that the population of Orenburg will not be delighted with your idea ..

          Referendum - will you hold? They will send it after all, and you even know where.
    2. Socialistonist1
      Socialistonist1 7 July 2015 22: 20
      0
      did he really say so? what a smart dad
    3. Socialistonist1
      Socialistonist1 7 July 2015 22: 20
      0
      did he really say so? what a smart dad
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 7 July 2015 22: 50
        +4
        It seems that ASK505 did not read the article. There, the National Academy of Sciences speaks of the Assembly of Peoples of KZ as a great achievement. And he that oppressed. Please read the site of this Assembly. NAS for the Congress of World Religions and how they "tumbled" for the first 5 years, he tells everything about Russophobia. He also explains who and why moved out. There were a million Germans in Kazakhstan out of 16,5 million. pop. republics. How and why many Kazakhs became internationalists. And there are still over 130 nationalities living - it would be bad, they left long ago. Read about Astana and what it gives firsthand. Or is the NAS lying? Therefore, I think that the person simply did not read what is written. hi
  2. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 7 July 2015 06: 29
    +3
    Well, Nazarbay simply paraphrased Lenin in my opinion: “The revolution is then worth something, when it (the revolution) knows how to defend itself ... something like that.
  3. VoenDok
    VoenDok 7 July 2015 06: 37
    +2
    Only a superpower can be independent. And their number never exceeded 3-4 at a time. Well, there is also the "Mongolian version" of independence - countries on which nothing depends. But 99% of the world's states do not shine for the first, and the second only if they are located in deep Asia or Africa.
    1. WKS
      WKS 7 July 2015 10: 10
      +1
      Quote: VoenDok
      Only a superpower can be independent. And their number never exceeded 3-4 at a time. Well, there is also the "Mongolian version" of independence - countries on which nothing depends. But 99% of the world's states do not shine for the first, and the second only if they are located in deep Asia or Africa.

      I recalled a joke. A figure of a horseman suddenly appears on a hill against a bright sky. Struck by this suddenness, the boy asks his father:
      “Dad, who is this?” The father leisurely glanced over the figure, answering.
      - This is the elusive son Joe!
      “Ahhh ... Why isn’t it perceptible?” Looking at Joe admiringly, he again asks the boy.
      - But who needs hell!
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 7 July 2015 23: 21
        +3
        Maybe chaos in Mongolia will not change anything and will not affect anything, but let's look at the Republic of Kazakhstan. What is losing the global economy?
        Almost half of the world's uranium, and Rosatom "tablets" for TVELs and almost 80% of raw materials in the form of uranium hake. And what kind of nuclear power plants we will build later, and there are kaz. Components?
        And also 10 mil. tons of grain, by the way, "every third loaf in Moscow is baked from Kazakh grain" (Luzhkov) - due to the low gluten content, Kazakh grain must be added.
        The Urals will be left without Kazakh coal (open pit mining is cheaper; therefore, many enterprises under the USSR in the Urals are technologically "sharpened" for it).
        Gas and oil transit through and from Kazakhstan to the Russian Federation and China. Transit 40 mil. tons of cargo from China.
        Geographically, we have the longest border in the world. And also RK has the longest coastline in the Caspian. Through RK there is a message from Wed. Asia.
        It also occupies the first lines in the extraction of certain minerals and their reserves. In Kazakhstan, 52 elements of the periodic table are mined.
        So, if such an "independent" republic "falls out" it will be bad for all neighbors, incl. Russia. Even in the first place, because every fourth Kazakhstani is Russian. hi
  4. kombin23
    kombin23 7 July 2015 08: 27
    +4
    Nazarbayev is a wise politician, no doubt. But the question is whether this wisdom will remain in the politics of Kazakhstan after the departure of the patriarch?
  5. Gromm
    Gromm 7 July 2015 09: 01
    +1
    Funny and when did Kazakhstan gain independence? What Kazakhs had a war with aliens? I didn’t hear something. Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires. Otherwise, such a state would not exist. But this has already been said many times, the ungrateful republics are puffed by imaginary greatness, not a pleasant and somewhat comical sight. And about the elections in Kazakhstan, this is generally circus.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 7 July 2015 20: 56
      +2
      Only Western Europeans speak in such a dismissive tone. "What we do not understand and do not know is all wild and uncivilized." So what?
      In essence. 17-18 century-century confrontation against the Dzungars (they slaughtered everyone at the initial moment of the invasion — entire Kazakh tribes simply disappeared — for example, fascists — complete genocide). Confrontation of the Dzungars, who invaded the territory of southern Kazakhstan from the XUAR (PRC), with the nomadic tribes of the Great Steppe. After which these tribes soldered into a single people. And the whole world found out who the Kazakhs are. Names Ablayhan or Bogenbai Batyr, etc. They don’t tell you anything. But if not for them, now Kaz.-Ros. the border would be ros.-whale. (Dzungars, although nomads, were subjects of the Chinese emperor). And during the Second World War, the Germans would probably have gone further without the human and other resources of Central Asia (cotton and lead, bread and food, etc.). What do you think? And so you can look at the remains of the jungars in the form of Kalmyks. And everyone in the region (Uzbeks and Kyrgyz, Tajiks and Turkens) are grateful for their feat. Otherwise, we would all follow the example of the Uyghurs in the XUAR (PRC). How do you like the prospect of borders with China? So not the aliens, but the Chinese would hang around the perimeter of all the Asian borders of Russia, and another question is where would they go. And could the Russian empire become such? The Kazakhs voluntarily joined Russia, because after the victory over the Dzungars we were bloodless (the accession lasted until almost the end of the 19th century). Moreover, China began to push and climb. 1756-1758gg Bogenbai Batyr broke the Chinese (the first fact of the Chinese invasion of Turkestan) and drove them to Urumqi.
      Now look at the geographic map. And what we see: West-East trade is easiest to carry out through the territory of modern Kazakhstan (Altai, Tien Shan, Pamir, Karakorum, Himalayas and Tibet - and only in the Republic of Kazakhstan there are two year-round passes where you can safely pass - the Silk Road). Therefore, everyone wanted to control this territory. Therefore, so much blood poured for her.
      "Not grateful republics". Study the history of each of them and you will surely find something interesting. RK was one of the donors of the USSR. And we in terms of prosperity among the republics of the Soviet Union were in the penultimate place. And now one of the leaders is about donation.
      What a circus can be if there is NO ANALOGUE. Do you have an analogue to Putin? hi
    2. Yereke
      Yereke 7 July 2015 22: 14
      -6
      after that, wait for eternal love for you)) so you push yourself to deploy NATO bases with us ..
      because of the oppression of the Russian empire and the famine organized in the 30s, Kazakhs became smaller than the rest of the peoples of the Middle Ages. Of Asia. And so there were more Kazakhs than all of them !!!
    3. Yereke
      Yereke 7 July 2015 23: 06
      -2
      empire empire strife.

      - Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires ..
      because of you we became a minority of Central Asia and the genocide of the people passed
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 7 July 2015 23: 38
        +3
        Quote: Ereke
        because of you we became a minority of Central Asia and the genocide of the people passed

        What time, genocide, in a sense? Resulting in? Calmly answer your own questions to yourself before answering here ..
  6. Nomad
    Nomad 7 July 2015 09: 50
    +2
    Quote: Gromm
    Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires. Otherwise, such a state would not exist.

    If it were not for the Soviet empire, there would be 4-5 times more Kazakhs now, thanks to collectivization. About "salvation" from the Dzungars here have already written many times, too lazy to repeat.
    Quote: Gromm
    And about the elections in Kazakhstan it is generally a circus.

    Is it different in Russia?
    Quote: Gromm
    But this has already been said many times, not grateful republics, puffed by imaginary greatness, not pleasant and somewhat comical sight

    Thanks for what? And what is ingratitude?
    Perhaps it’s enough to nudge already, rush charges and exude bile? They themselves profiled their empire out of the blue, now for some reason you are angry with the former republics.
    1. rosarioagro
      rosarioagro 7 July 2015 09: 55
      +9
      Quote: Nomad
      About "salvation" from the Dzungars has already been written here many times, too lazy to repeat.

      Yes, why then in 1719 they asked Anna Ivanovna for protection, well, would they live independently and sovereignly? Was it bad?
      1. Gromm
        Gromm 7 July 2015 10: 57
        +4
        Dear colleague, I often communicate with Asians by occupation. Kazakhs are the most advanced and sane of them, who are not infected with stupid nationalism, excellent friends and associates. In general, Kazakhs are a smart and cheerful nation, for example, their saying - "you say, poor, poor, try to move "What is worth. And what beautiful women they have, this is a must see. But like all Asians there is a large percentage of those who imagine themselves to be the navel of the earth, against the background of backwardness and poverty, it looks comical. Stupid Natsiks, both here and there, can cause trouble , one hope for normal sane people. These are the people who once turned to us for help. Thank you for the example.
      2. Yereke
        Yereke 7 July 2015 22: 17
        0
        "voluntarily" who wrote these documents? you yourself wrote like voluntarily .. who supplied the Dzungar guns and poisoned the Bashkirs on us?
    2. dmb
      dmb 7 July 2015 10: 39
      +2
      Yes, there is no need to thank, and we have the same thing with elections. But about the "Soviet empire" ... I'm afraid that Nazarbayev would not even be a furnace. Shepherds do not need industry and science.
    3. Gromm
      Gromm 7 July 2015 10: 45
      +1
      You didn’t understand anything, dear. This is about gratitude and if it doesn’t exist, then what should I talk about? And before collectivization there was much more or don’t remember? Besides, the Kazakh SSR was an advanced and powerful republic And now what happened to life in a Kazakh village? And what kind of poverty and social stratification do Kazakhs have? Not recognizing this means having problems not with the mind but with conscience. Well, I’m saying that if she’s not there and her stupid nationalist pride replaces her, then it’s pointless to polemicize, be healthy and goodbye.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 7 July 2015 12: 13
        -3
        Quote: Gromm
        there is a large percentage of those who consider themselves the navel of the earth, against the background of backwardness and poverty it looks ridiculous.
        Looked in the mirror? repeat
        Quote: Gromm
        Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires. Otherwise, such a state would not exist. But this has already been said many times, not grateful republics, puffed from imaginary greatness

        Ruski as a nation was saved by Ulyg Ulys (in other words, the Golden Horde). Otherwise, such a state would not exist. But this has already been said many times, not grateful Russians, puffed up from imaginary greatness, not pleasant, and in some way a comical sight.
        The wrong country was called Honduras (s) lol
        And now what happened to life in the Russian village? And what kind of poverty and social stratification among Russians? Not to recognize this means to have problems not with the mind but with conscience. Well, I’m not saying it is there, and it is replaced by stupid great-power chauvinistic pride, it is pointless to argue
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 7 July 2015 13: 33
          +8
          Quote: Alibekulu
          The Russians as a nation were preserved by Ulyg Ulys (in other words, the Golden Horde). Otherwise, such a state would not exist.

          Cool. Something protoukrov reminded .. request

          A clear link can be some thread - I want to personally make sure .. about Ulym Ulys exactly.
          1. Yereke
            Yereke 7 July 2015 23: 02
            -1
            Muscovy however wink
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 7 July 2015 23: 44
              +4
              Quote: Ereke
              Muscovy however wink

              How is it .. in the cartoon ..

              - What is this folk art?
              - And this is such an Indian national folk hut - Figs, you’re called ...
              - We survived. We can say that we found, washed, cleaned it from the trash in the garbage dump, and he draws figvam to us ...

              Congratulations to you, Ball, you dunce!

              love
        2. Gromm
          Gromm 7 July 2015 14: 06
          +5
          That's the whole ALIBEKULU example, and poking it right away is Asian, I don’t poke you, dear. That's the whole difference is visible without a microscope. As for backwardness, be careful there is something high-tech unlike Kazakhstan, but we are not bothered by nationalism. In the Russian countryside, the same disaster and no one denies it, they constantly talk about it. As for the aul myths about the Horde that supposedly preserved the Russians, this is generally cool. It threw Russia hundreds of years ago. Killing and robbery slavery and torture is what did you save? It is useless to talk with the Nazis - there is no conscience. But the 1977 diver says the smart guy.
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 7 July 2015 16: 26
            +1
            Quote: Gromm
            That's the whole difference is visible without a microscope.
            The difference is that I, in particular, and Kazakhs in general, do not "boast" of their achievements and do not demand gratitude. So yes - the difference is significant. good
            Quote: Gromm
            As for the aul myths about the Horde that supposedly preserved the Russians, then this is generally cool.
            As for the village myths that the Republic of Ingushetia has preserved the Kazakhs, this is generally cool ..
            Quote: Gromm
            It’s useless to talk with Natsik -
            I absolutely agree - to have a serious conversation with the Russian Natsiks .. negative They will, as always, carry the "crap" ..
            Quote: Gromm
            owlsиno
            smart ass fool before demanding "thanks" and talking about "owlsиsti "improve the spelling in Russian ..
            Correctly spelled "owlеst.
            Spelling other forms of the word "owеst: owlеconscience, conscience, conscience, conscience, conscience.
            Well, a gift to you, wise guy and punctuation tighten
            Quote: Gromm
            But the diver 1977 case says smart guy.
            Diver 1977 is smart, who argues ..
        3. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 7 July 2015 14: 42
          +3
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Russians as a nation were saved by Ulyg Ulys

          funny, but she (the Russian nation) that was on the verge of extinction? !!!
    4. ymNIK1970
      ymNIK1970 7 July 2015 13: 19
      +2
      "Thanks for what? And what is the ingratitude?" "If it were not for the Soviet empire, there would be 4-5 times more Kazakhs now, thanks to collectivization. They have already written here many times about" salvation "from the Dzungars, too lazy to repeat." I read this and see our Svidomites, that way in 2010. This is only the beginning of the bloody ukrokazakhisation. A couple of years will pass, and God forbid we will see the animal grin of the sheep. Yes sane people of all nationalities will forgive me, but this is very likely.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 7 July 2015 13: 48
        -1
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        Cool. Something protoukrov reminded ..
        A clear link can be some thread - I want to personally make sure .. about Ulym Ulys exactly.
        Do not read books?
        Gumileva L.N., Trubetskoy N.S. etc. means with request I do not know ..
        Quote: ymNIK1970
        I read it and see our svidomitov, that way 2010 of the year. This is only the beginning of the bloody ukrokazahizatsii.
        Well, smart, nothing you have to stir up, as in the Ukraine will not work ..
        R.S. Kazakhs do not have to.
        If and, something should have, so in the Second World War "blood debt" was paid with interest.
        And, interestingly, the Kazakhs are not starting, for example, to demand gratitude for their participation in the Battle of Moscow 41 soldier .
        And, only among certain Great Russians, they turn their tongues to talk about some ridiculous "thanks" ..
        1. Gromm
          Gromm 7 July 2015 16: 15
          +6
          And you read the Kashgar diary, Chokan Valikhanov, and Abay talked about people like you. So you are selectively selfish, dear Alibekuly. And aggressive nationalism is the lot of the backward and narrow-minded. Progress is driven by smart and peaceful people, not stupid and aggressive, but they are narrow-minded, and how do they understand this? Stop aul nationalism, it will not help Kazakhstan. And how do Americans in Ukraine muddle your friends, who are betting on such Natsik Russophobes. And as for the Second World War, did you fight for yourself or forget what the Nazis called you?
          1. marshes
            marshes 7 July 2015 16: 48
            0
            Quote: Gromm
            , Chokan Valikhanov, and Abai

            It's funny, these are representatives of the "north" of Kazakhstan, the one who asked for the protection of the Republic of Ingushetia from the west of Kazakhstan, was later killed. But those who suffered the most later were their descendants, relatives.
            And the south, as it passed.
        2. Semen Semyonitch
          Semen Semyonitch 8 July 2015 02: 24
          0
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Well, smart, nothing you have to stir up, as in the Ukraine will not work ..
          R.S. Kazakhs do not have to.

          That is, it turns out that we were "muddied" in Vukraine?
          Quote: Alibekulu
          If and, something should have, so in the Second World War "blood debt" was paid with interest.
          And, interestingly, the Kazakhs are not starting, for example, to demand gratitude for their participation in the Battle of Moscow 41

          But were we not one country? Like, did you do someone a favor? Or would the Germans not go to you? Complete nonsense ....
        3. Cat man null
          Cat man null 8 July 2015 02: 56
          +1
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Cool. Something protoukrov reminded ..
          A clear link can be some thread - I want to personally make sure .. about Ulym Ulys exactly.
          Do not read books?
          Gumileva L.N., Trubetskoy N.S. etc. means with request I do not know ..

          We, uncle, know a lot of things that you don’t know. Rule of good form: said the word - give, upon a polite request, a link to confirm the information you provided. You can not clearly indicate the source - not trash.

          Something like this..

          Quote: Alibekulu
          Quote: ymNIK1970
          I read it and see our Svidomo, that 2010 year
          ... P.S. Kazakhs owe nothing.
          If and, something should have, so in the Second World War "blood debt" was paid with interest.
          And, what’s interesting, Kazakhs don’t begin, for example, to demand gratitude for their participation in the battle of Moscow 41

          Yes, you, uncle, are inadequate .. you are not on the forum, but in the hospital urgently. This is good advice, keep in mind ..

          I didn't say anything about "gratitude" and I'm not going to .. but the USSR took part in the war, right? After Moscow, there would have been Alma-Ata, do not hesitate ..

          Damn, turned the same language to say this .. well .. (censorship)
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 8 July 2015 09: 38
            -3
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            We, uncle, know a lot of things that you don’t know ..
            Flag in hand and around the neck of the drum ..
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            You can not clearly indicate the source - do not write.
            In Russian, you don’t understand ?!
            Proceedings Gumileva L.N., Trubetskoy N.S. and other Eurasians .. highlighted in bold, maybe it will ..
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Yes, you, uncle, are inadequate .. you are not on the forum, but in the hospital urgently. This is good advice, keep in mind ..
            Long checked out ?! What did you have there? In view of the sight ?!
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            I didn't say anything about "gratitude" and I'm not going to ..
            Do you have a causal relationship like?
            I wrote to you about the "gratitude"?
            Gromm about "gratitude" wrapped up ..
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Damn, turned the same language to say this .. well .. (censorship)
            What selective vision is the answer, the Kazakh noticed the "Great Russian" 's draft. At the same time, point-blank, does not notice the root cause. request
            So it is understandable, to carry nonsense about "thanks" is the privilege of "white Sahibs", and to answer, as it should be, to this nonsense is unheard of insolence angry "Svidomo Kazakh Bander" .. what
            "Obarzeli vashsche" ..
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 8 July 2015 17: 28
              0
              So .. I’m not specifically quoting anything. There is nothing to quote there.

              - to sahib - never belonged
              - read Gumilyov completely - no time; there are many other books, we techies request
              - about "Russians as a nation were preserved by Ulyg Ulys (that is, the Golden Horde). Otherwise, such a state would not exist" - I would love to look into the source, painfully the topic is delicious, but the trouble is - I don’t know where sad

              Quote: Alibekulu
              What selective vision is the answer, the Kazakh noticed the "Great Russian" 's draft. At the same time, point-blank, does not notice the root cause.

              - I wouldn’t be offended personally by the picture
              - I wouldn't talk about the Great Patriotic War like that either. As the saying goes, "you exceed the limit of necessary defense."
              - I would not oppose the "Kazakhs" to the "Great Russians" either .. everyone has their own cockroaches, beloved ones .. why touch them in vain ..
              - however, everything is strictly IMHO, and the rest is your business, the stump is clear ..

              Actually, everything hi
              1. Alibekulu
                Alibekulu 8 July 2015 18: 26
                -1
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                never referred to sahib
                Congratulations .. Alcoholics, too, are generally not recognized as alcoholics ..
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - read Gumilyov completely - no time; there are many other books, we techies
                "In googol" or the identity, don't you understand May? No. I'll throw it off later ..
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - about "Rus as a nation was saved by Ulyg Ulys (that is, the Golden Horde).
                With logic, cause and effect relationships, techies should be fine ..
                My quote "PUsk as a nation was preserved by Ulyg Ulys (in other words, the Golden Horde). Otherwise, such a state would not exist." is the answer - a complete copy, statements Gromma
                Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires. Otherwise, such a state would not exist. But this has already been said many times, the ungrateful republics are puffed by imaginary greatness
                where I replaced the Kazakhs with Russian .. to show the absurdity of this opinion.
                And, why, when it refers to the Kazakhs, questions do not arise request .
                And when, too, "exactly" the proposal about the Russians, causes heartburn among the elves and accusations of "Svidomism"? what
                Ukrainians have long noticed this ..
                If a Russian loves Russia, he is a patriot. If a Ukrainian loves Ukraine, he is a terry Bandera nationalist. If a Russian says "khokhol" - he kindly mocks a representative of the fraternal people. If a Ukrainian says "mockal", he thereby reveals his nationalist, anti-Russian essence. If a Russian holds a meeting, he defends his interests. If a Ukrainian holds a rally, he works off the American money paid to him for anti-Russian purposes. If the Russian president communicates with the American president, he is establishing relations between the two countries. If the Ukrainian president
                communicates with the American president — they both weave an anti-Russian conspiracy. If Russian speaks Russian, he’s just Russian. If a
                Ukrainian speaks the Ukrainian language - he is Petliura unfinished. If the president of Russia declares pro-Russian slogans - this
                normal president. If the president of Ukraine declares pro-Ukrainian slogans - he is a pro-American and anti-Russian president. If the Russian government does not agree with the Ukrainian government - it defends national interests. If the Ukrainian government does not agree with the Russian government - abarzeli finally.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 8 July 2015 20: 59
                  0
                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  Congratulations .. Alcoholics, too, are generally not recognized as alcoholics ..

                  YYYYYY laughing ... don't ... don't belong laughing

                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  My quote "Russians as a nation were preserved by Ulyg Ulys (that is, the Golden Horde). Otherwise, such a state would not exist" is the answer - a full copy, the statement of Grommа
                  Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires. Otherwise, such a state would not have existed. But this has already been said many times, the ungrateful republics are puffed by imaginary greatness where I replaced the Kazakhs with Russians .. to show the absurdity of this opinion.

                  Damn, what you have, it turns out, the relationship is complicated .. well, okay .. advice yes love lol

                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  And, why, when it refers to the Kazakhs, questions do not arise

                  Um .. I didn’t say it, as if .. and didn’t even read it - you there were such a mess .. that you didn’t share it?

                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  And when, too, "exactly" the proposal about the Russians, causes heartburn among the elves and accusations of "Svidomism"?

                  The elves? Heartburn? belay I don’t know .. didn’t notice somehow wink

                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  Ukrainians have long noticed this ..

                  I don’t know that they noticed such a thing there, but they behave (I'm not talking about privates, I'm talking about leadership) .. I would say inadequately ..

                  Well, yes, then their business. I personally exactly, abroad is abroad.
  7. lopvlad
    lopvlad 7 July 2015 11: 02
    +2
    I stood at the origins of the construction of the first Kazakhstani state in history

    That's right. Russia gave many nations their national states that never had them.
    1. Yereke
      Yereke 7 July 2015 22: 19
      +1
      Now I understand the Ukrainians ....
  8. Gromm
    Gromm 7 July 2015 12: 15
    +2
    Quote: Nomad
    Thanks for what? And what is ingratitude?
    Perhaps it’s enough to nudge already, rush charges and exude bile? They themselves profiled their empire out of the blue, now for some reason you are angry with the former republics.

    Quote: Gromm
    You didn’t understand anything, dear. This is about gratitude and if it doesn’t exist, then what should I talk about? And before collectivization there was much more or don’t remember? Besides, the Kazakh SSR was an advanced and powerful republic And now what happened to life in a Kazakh village? And what kind of poverty and social stratification do Kazakhs have? Not recognizing this means having problems not with the mind but with conscience. Well, I’m saying that if she’s not there and her stupid nationalist pride replaces her, then it’s pointless to polemicize, be healthy and goodbye.
  9. chelovektapok
    chelovektapok 7 July 2015 12: 53
    +1
    What does "autonomy and independence" mean, which the "fragments of the USSR" are so proud of without the HERITAGE of the USSR? Never mind! And there would not be them at all on the map! Who wisely applied and who profuked ... It makes a difference! And they think they are so smart and businesslike. Yes, you all live and use the heritage of Russia! Mostly nobody remembers where it all came from!
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 7 July 2015 13: 43
      10
      How much can you reproach? Who says that there is no merit of the USSR and Russia in the history of Kazakhstan? It seems that you would be pleased if we, Kazakhstanis, could not maintain independence and could not build an economy, but would fall down in the Middle Ages. In fact, Kazakhstan inherited from the USSR:
      a vigorous range, huge in area, where more than 500 tests of nuclear charges of various capacities were carried out;
      huge ruined lands in area as a result of illiterate development of virgin lands;
      fully commodity economy;
      unsolved environmental problems (such as the Aral Sea);
      brain drain (forcibly driven peoples began a mass departure to their historical homelands);
      torn out of the general production process, whole plants whose products no one needs apart from the Soviet planned economy.
      And so on and so forth. Not everyone could break out of this trap!
      I repeat once again - I do not belittle the merits of the USSR and Russia in the formation of Kazakhstan. They are huge and invaluable, it is known to everyone. And the Kazakhstanis are grateful, and together we fought and built and plowed. No monuments were demolished here (unlike your brothers Slavs - Ukrainians). We did not have any persecution on ethnic grounds, although there are Natsiks - the family has its black sheep.
      But I think it is not correct for you to belittle the achievements of Kazakhstan. It would be different - they would have at their side not an ally and like-minded person, but a huge border that would have to be equipped, guarded, and that would be a lot of money. Uncontrolled drug trafficking, gangs, Islamic extremism - it would not be fun.
      So let's be objective, constructive and friendly. And then you behave like a beautiful woman who definitely needs an ugly girlfriend)))
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. bolat19640303
        bolat19640303 7 July 2015 15: 46
        +5
        Bravo, not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. It's really time to stop all these attacks and attempts to infringe on each other in some way. If a person is proud of his country, then he knows why and has the right to do so. And you shouldn't consider it "stupid nationalist pride" (literally).
      3. Concept1
        Concept1 7 July 2015 17: 40
        -2
        In fact, Kazakhstan inherited from the USSR:
        a vigorous range, huge in area, where more than 500 tests of nuclear charges of various capacities were carried out;
        huge ruined lands in area as a result of illiterate development of virgin lands;
        fully commodity economy;

        And another 70 cities, hundreds of factories, power plants, institutes, etc.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 8 July 2015 01: 32
          +1
          Quote: concept1
          vigorous range, huge in area, where it was produced more 500 tests of nuclear charges of different power

          All the same 458. Of these, only 28 Ground, 114 Air. Others are underground.

          Further. After two days, the radiation decreases 100 times, after 2 weeks - 1000 times. From 1964 (the last "not underground") to 1991, 1408 weeks passed. Terribly contaminated area .. um belay

          Quote: For reference
          Chronology of nuclear tests in the USSR: http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-788.html

          29.08.1949 to 24.10.90 produced 715 nuclear and thermonuclear explosions. Total power ~ 350000 ct.

          Prior to 15.03.1964 - mainly air, high-altitude, underwater, etc. Terrestrial - total 30.

          After 15.03.1964 - only underground tests.

          The maximum charge power in a ground explosion is 400 ct (12.08.1953 Semipalatinsk test site No.2), the average power in ground tests is 21.9 ct, the total power of ground explosions is ~ 650 ct

          The total capacity of ground tests was 0.1857% of the total.
          1. diver1977
            diver1977 8 July 2015 07: 54
            +3
            Let's buddy, I’ll pay you the way to the landfill, buy a tent and everything you need - go, live there, since it is so safe! When the second head grows up, you may be friends with it))) Damn chernukha, but really there the oncological situation is terrible. There are many deformities at birth. They often blew up without warning people, without relocating them. You read before you speak.
            And I do not understand, do you think that 458 is not enough? You might think under your windows every day undermine. Do not carry nonsense! Since at the Semipalatinsk test site - they did not test anywhere that people lived nearby in such quantities.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 8 July 2015 08: 24
              0
              Quote: diver1977
              You think 458 is not enough

              I believe that this is not "more than five hundred." I don't count anything else.

              Your president miscalculated a minimum of 43 trials. The one who prepared the information for him is a hack worker.

              I talk about it exactly.

              Next.

              Quote: http://nuclearno.ru/text.asp?12134
              ... The landfill was open to the public and was abandoned. Although, as far as we know, there was a professional program for the phased closure of the landfill with the deaf conservation of all hazardous areas, with the removal of radioactive waste and so on. However, according to Dmitry Kalmykov, the political pressure was so great that a heated public literally pushed the military into the neck and satisfied went off to celebrate the victory. Then no one thought about the people who will live here.

              Dozens of adits remain open at the landfill. But those that were hastily sealed by the military are easily opened by local craftsmen. In search of scrap metal, people go to the most dangerous sites, dig up a cable, collect radioactive scrap. ... Even 10-15 years ago, the entire steppe was literally dotted with the remains of rockets and shells. ... Today the steppe is clean, as if a vacuum cleaner has walked along it. And there is no way to trace where nuclear metal has gone and continues to go.

              Mutations are inherited. Why people were not resettled from the landfill - a question for the government of the USSR .. and Kazakhstan, oddly enough. Five years ago, people still lived there.

              "Extraction" of radioactive scrap metal and its delivery are generally beyond the bounds of good and evil. And after all someone accepts it !!

              Still :

              Quote: http://earth-chronicles.ru/news/2012-08-30-29681
              Dmitry Kalmykov: ... It has been such a long time since the last ground-based nuclear explosions that in most of the territories the level of gamma radiation dropped to normal. Without special research you will not find anything. You will ride devices will show 13, 15, 17 micro-roentgen. If you cross the site of a nuclear explosion, it will show 18 or 19You won’t even notice. But on this trace, in addition to gamma radiation, there are other products of a nuclear explosion, for example, plutonium that did not decay during explosions. He has very weak radiation, but when it gets inside, with its alpha and beta particles causes a significant violation in the lungs and bone tissue.

              I spoke about this.

              The gamma background is normal there. Climbing there without overalls, a respirator (they must be deactivated later) is an extremely unhealthy occupation.

              I will not live there and swim in the Atomic Lake for any gingerbread, since I am completely friends with my head.

              Something like that.
              1. diver1977
                diver1977 8 July 2015 08: 51
                +3
                From 1949 to 1989, at least 468 [1] nuclear tests were conducted at the Semipalatinsk nuclear test site, in which at least 616 nuclear and thermonuclear devices were detonated, including: 125 atmospheric (26 ground, 91 air, 8 high-altitude); 343 nuclear test explosions underground (of which 215 are in adits and 128 in wells). Dozens of hydro-nuclear and hydrodynamic tests were also carried out (the so-called "NCR" - incomplete chain reactions). The total power of nuclear charges tested in the period from 1949 to 1963 at the Semipalatinsk test site was 2500 times higher than the power of an atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima [11]. Radioactive clouds of 55 air and ground explosions and a gas fraction of 169 underground tests went beyond the limits of the landfill. It was these 224 explosions that caused radiation pollution throughout the eastern part of Kazakhstan.

                Information from Wikipedia. There were more than 600 devices. In any case, vast territories remain infected, people are affected - unmeasured.
                And the question is why immediately after gaining independence the people were not resettled - there was no difference there, everyone had already received their doses.

                That was how the nuclear shield of our common Motherland was forged, apparently in a different way. And yet my Kazakhstan suffered. not the Baltic states, not Yakutia, not the Caucasus, not other Asian republics. It is we. Well, even for the little things - we also developed bacteriological weapons, we developed and tested beam weapons at the Sary-Shagan training ground (we nearly dropped the American spaceship), and also a lot of other classified things.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 8 July 2015 09: 32
                  0
                  I appreciate your perseverance hi

                  Quote: diver1977
                  Information from Wikipedia.

                  I would not really trust Vicki. Here, go here (in my first post there is this link too): http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-788.html
                  There is such a special plate, what, where and when tested. numbers are still better to watch there. There were tests in the Astrakhan region, even in the Ivanovo one .. frolic, in a word sad

                  Quote: diver1977
                  And the question is why immediately after gaining independence the people were not resettled - there was no difference there, everyone had already received their doses.

                  Those who received - everything is clear. But there is a village near the Atomic Lake, there the children in 2011 lived there! Why do they need it?

                  In a good way, to do so:

                  - remove all the people from there
                  - to make an exclusion zone, as in Chernobyl the same (there, by the way, everything is much worse .. "peaceful atom" lives longer
                  - Poke all the holes
                  - if desired - try to deactivate something ..

                  Quote: diver1977
                  That was how the nuclear shield of our common Motherland was forged, apparently in a different way.

                  In a different way - just nothing. For the mattress partners, the goals were distributed fairly evenly throughout the Union, if that - everyone would fly.

                  It did not come because the "shield was forged", in particular.

                  Here.
      4. blizart
        blizart 7 July 2015 18: 09
        +9
        Guys, how long can you "dive". All judging by the comments are smart people. Well, let's look from the point of view of historical materialism. Everything flows, everything changes, we are all in the process of change. Their sign depends on us.
        Let me give you a list of the calculation of the ZU-23-2 with which I took the challenge prize of the RSK "Yug" in 2006.
        Gunner - M. Kopbaev (Kazakh)
        Sighting - V. Danilenko (Ukrainian)
        Right loader - R. Hirsch (German)
        Left Charger - O. Kolmogorov (Russian)
        Commander - E. Tsoi
        When awarded nothing extraordinary in the calculation did not find, everything is familiar to Kazakhstan.
  10. Gromm
    Gromm 7 July 2015 16: 06
    +5
    Dear diver of 1977, I hear the words of a rational person. No one humiliates the Kazakhs and does not detract from their merits, which are many, it's not about that. It's about dumb nationalism like Alibek ula, which is on both sides. Nationalism is any Russian Kazakh German or Martian destructive, it brings enmity, hatred, death and destruction. Objectively, thanks to the virgin lands, Kazakhstan is one of the most powerful sellers of wheat today, isn’t it? As for the commodity economy, this is a mistake, for example, Kazakhstan made electronics for torpedoes and not only, radio receivers were called one Kyzyl-Orda model, as far as I remember, it was bicycles, children's toys, clothes and fabrics, shoes, agricultural machinery, etc. Brain drain? Today's academics of the Republic of Kazakhstan come from the USSR, the steppe did not know such a total formation in its history. Yes, the leadership of the USSR could take better care of its citizens, but it was the shield of our homeland and nuclear tests were carried out in Russia. Let’s disagree? On the contrary, all reasonable people are happy for Kazakhstan, I repeat, I don’t take into account stupid Natsik from both sides. Such intelligent people as Nazarbayev keep the world between nations, so thanks to intelligent Kazakhs for their contribution to the cause of peace and progress. I heard for a long time how two narrow-minded people argued that balalaika or dombra is better, Russian ornament or Kazakh! Full insanity. As for me, a long time ago I love dombra and there is no balalaika. It's just a matter of taste, but for narrow-minded people this is a reason for enmity, and where to put them?
    1. marshes
      marshes 7 July 2015 17: 33
      +4
      Quote: Gromm
      Let's objectively, thanks to the virgin soil, Kazakhstan is one of the most powerful sellers of wheat for today, isn’t it?

      No doubt, In smaller areas, thanks to Caterpilliru, John Deere, AN-2 and state subsidies.
      Quote: Gromm
      for example, electronics in particular for torpedoes and not only, one model of radios was called Kyzyl-Orda,

      It is possible in more detail, about electronics for torpedoes, in Bishkek they did mechanics, and casting. By the way, the engines on the torpedoes are "interesting". And so I remember the radio tape recorder? "Medeo".
      Quote: Gromm
      as far as I remember we had this, bicycles, children's toys, clothes and fabrics, shoes, agricultural machinery

      Bicycle-Baldyrgan, tricycle, I grew up; my children grow on it, nieces. Bushes must be lubricated.
      I don’t remember children's toys-Kyzyl Tu, my father mainly brought from Moscow and Leningrad.
      Clothing and fabrics AHBK et al-China wins, I heard a story that their designers are watching fashion shows from Europe sitting on TV and making sketches, they are already starting production in the morning.
      Quote: Gromm
      Today's academics of the Republic of Kazakhstan come from the USSR, the steppe did not know such a total formation in its history

      I know these academics ... Although I studied in the USSR, many in Moscow, I don’t want to scout the research institutes ... there are no words, but they didn’t give young people life ... For that, the Academics in Moscow didn’t take sheep?
      Quote: Gromm
      . I heard for a long time how two narrow-minded people argued that a balalaika or dombra is better, a Russian ornament or Kazakh! Full insanity. As for me, I have long loved dombra and no balalaika.

      could you hear it if you don’t know Kazakh smile They have a bazaar in general about something else, it could be. smile
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 7 July 2015 18: 27
        +4
        Kazakhstan is my country. Vaughn finished attic grandchildren are happy to settle in, now I'm resting laughing ... The wish of the National Academy of Sciences to finish building the "attic" and have a rest, let the children and grandchildren settle down, we pay tribute to him at the turning point, he turned out to be not the worst first leader (servant) of the people. At the expense of the "ungrateful" Kazakhs, was all that the Russian Empire and the USSR did was altruism? if you think that altruism, then justify it. For me, there was a state calculation and policy in everything, and when the Kazakh Khanate was annexed to the Republic of Ingushetia, the Stolypin reform, and the raising of virgin lands and industrialization, universal education and 70 cities, etc., etc. lands, and the lack of rights of the Kazakhs in the Republic of Ingushetia before the Russians, and the famine in the USSR, and the massive resettlement of Kazakh peoples from all corners of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, and the Russification of Kazakhs, etc. will have its own result. And since Kazakhstan is an independent state who lives here and they don't like it, you can go to look for the country of your dreams. Neighbors are still sitting within their borders "we are good neighbors, good friends", if you want to change the borders "we are bad neighbors, vindictive enemies." And so the world is the world and you can discuss the interview of NAS and its achievements and shortcomings at the head of my republic.
        1. marshes
          marshes 7 July 2015 18: 36
          +3
          Quote: Semurg
          . Vaughn finished attic grandchildren are happy to settle in, now I'm resting

          Conder set, There is all the heat. There is a Chinese portable. You have there under 47, news.
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 7 July 2015 18: 51
            +3
            the heat on the street is specific, but what is interesting in the house it became cooler, I went online and read about the "termite mound effect", I say to my wife what a smart grandfather you have laughing arranged natural conditioning. I remember my childhood in the village of a yurt in a shade and a ditch with water around the yurt, and what a buzz there.
            1. marshes
              marshes 7 July 2015 19: 01
              +2
              Quote: Semurg
              . I remember my childhood in the village of a yurt in a shade and a ditch with water around the yurt, and what a buzz there.

              At first I bought that conder, on wheels, a corrugated hose to the street. But the mountains are nearby, I open windows and doors at night, I close everything during the day. I gave it to my uncle, so he puts it in a yurt, on a hacienda. And what about Conder, satellite TV, Internet laughing Kazakhs healed in a new way laughing , next to the house there is Canalia and everything else ... smile He drives a Nisan patrol, there is a boat ... you could dream at the advice. smile
              He vacated the place in the courtyard, removed the old household buildings. I’ll put the YURT, parents’s anniversaries ... And then a collapsible pool can be set up. smile
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. ASK505
      ASK505 7 July 2015 20: 03
      -4
      Advise books, recommend commas. Look at your art:
      Quote: marshes
      No doubt, In smaller areas, thanks to Caterpilliru, John Deere, AN-2 and state subsidies.

      Teach the materiel: indisputably, thanks, Caterpillar. And with commas you have a completely civil war. This is just one suggestion ...
      1. marshes
        marshes 7 July 2015 20: 05
        +1
        Quote: ASK505
        Teach the materiel: indisputably, thanks, Caterpillar. And with commas you have a completely civil war. This is just one suggestion ...

        What books did I advise you?
      2. ASK505
        ASK505 8 July 2015 09: 44
        +1
        Less losers. And what did the army general not like? Laws of Russian spelling and punctuation? If Russian, then he must be literate in a letter, and not compete in gibberish Russian with the talkative General Alibekkul. Sorry, he recommends books with photos on the Russian language and punctuation. He needs Russian only at the market. There are two questions on the topic. What would Kazakhs be without Russians? What would happen to the Kazakhs if there were Anglo-Saxons in place of the Russians? The topic is closed.
    3. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 7 July 2015 22: 00
      +1
      Quote: Gromm
      We are talking about stupid nationalism like Alibek uly, which is on both sides. Nationalism, any Russian Kazakh German or Martian destructive, bears
      The direct question is - who started the draft?
      Quote: Gromm
      Today, 09: 01 Kazakhs as a nation were preserved by the Russian and Soviet empires. Otherwise, such a state would not exist. But this has already been said many times, the ungrateful republics are puffed by imaginary greatness, not a pleasant and comical sight.
      I, my grandfather, 2 brothers remained in the damp land in the vastness of the European part of Russia, leaving no descendants. And this "smart guy" mumbles about us like "not grateful"that Kazakhs "swollen with imaginary greatness" and we represent "comical sight".
      And to whom should we bow and express "gratitude" ..?!
      It is characteristic, from whose submission "Kazakhsrach" begins.
      For example, in the previous topic:
      Quote: sap
      The main thing in this alliance is to place accents. Russians to remember what it cost them to educate the Kazakhs, and Kazakhs do not forget who taught them standing up!

      Robyaty, and you did not eat there ah ?!
      And who really has "stupid nationalism" ?! request
  11. Concept1
    Concept1 7 July 2015 21: 06
    +3
    diver1977 KZ


    Economics of the Kazakh SSR


    Thanks to the USSR, the Kazakh SSR received an unprecedented successful modernization. The republic produced chemicals, machinery and equipment, groceries, synthetic rubber, textiles and many other products of the manufacturing industry.

    From 1955 to 1985, 43 cities were built on the expanses of Soviet Kazakhstan, including such industrial centers as Rudny, Ekibastuz, Shevchenko (now Aktau), Arkalyk, Stepnogorsk, Kentau, Temirtau and Zhanatas. In 1965, Kazakhstan produced 10,6% of high-voltage equipment, 6,5% of rolling equipment, 10% of concentrating equipment for their total production in the country.

    In the period from 1981 to 1986, more than 400 enterprises were built in Kazakhstan. Mechanical engineering and metalworking were large industries of the republic. Machine-building plants worked in the cities of Alma-Ata, Ust-Kamenogorsk, Karaganda, Uralsk, Petropavlovsk and Pavlodar. The products of the Almaty Heavy Engineering Plant were supplied to almost 50 countries of the world, including Western Europe and Japan. The largest enterprise in Petropavlovsk - the Petropavlovsk Heavy Engineering Plant (PZTM) - produced such high-tech products as mobile systems with medium-range ballistic missiles (SS-20, SS-21, SS-23).


    Leading industries:

    mining
    non-ferrous and ferrous metallurgy
    coal
    chemical
    engineering
    light
    food
    The power industry was based on its own coal, oil and hydropower. Large hydroelectric power stations - on the Irtysh rivers (Ust-Kamenogorsk hydroelectric power station, Bukhtarma hydroelectric power station), Syrdarya (Chardara hydroelectric power station), Ili (river) (Kapchagai hydroelectric power station), by 1991 the Shulba hydroelectric power station was under construction.

    Large power plants were built in Alma-Ata, Karaganda, Ekibastuz, Petropavlovsk, Dzhambul, Chimkent, Pavlodar and other cities.

    Coal mining (the Ekibastuz basin and the Karaganda basin), oil and gas (on the Mangyshlak peninsula, in the Emba region), iron ore (Sokolovsko-Sarbaisky mining and processing plant), polymetallic, copper (Rudny Altai), nickel ores, bauxite and of another.

    Non-ferrous metallurgy was represented by copper (Balkhash mining and metallurgical plant and Dzhezkazgan mining and metallurgical plant), lead-zinc (Ust-Kamenogorsk, Leninogorsk, Chimkent), aluminum (Pavlodar) industry.

    A titanium and magnesium industry was created.

    Ferrous metallurgy - in Temirtau, Aktyubinsk, Karaganda, Ermak.

    The main centers of mechanical engineering (forging, mining equipment, machine tools, excavators, agricultural machinery) are Karaganda, Alma-Ata, Tselinograd, Kentau, Pavlodar, Ust-Kamenogorsk and others.

    The republic also had a highly developed chemical industry. The commissioning of the Dzhambul and Chimkent yellow phosphorus production plants brought Kazakhstan to the first place in the world in terms of available capacities. Chemical industry enterprises produced mineral fertilizers, phosphorus, plastics, synthetic rubber, chemical fibers and more (the main industrial centers are Karatau, Chimkent, Dzhambul, Guryev).

    Etc
    1. marshes
      marshes 7 July 2015 21: 12
      +3
      Quote: concept1
      The commissioning of the Dzhambul and Chimkent yellow phosphorus production plants brought Kazakhstan to the first place in the world in terms of available capacities.

      For Shym, I don’t know, you ask the Taraz residents about phosphorus, the rivers are polluted with phosphates. I generally keep quiet about the fish they catch from them ....
    2. diver1977
      diver1977 8 July 2015 00: 11
      +5
      All right. I myself grew up in the city where the BGMK stood. From its emissions, the fish was sick and dead. The thing is that everything that you described by the time you gained independence was in an illiquid state, especially the factories transferred from the Urals away from the war. And again, production in Kazakhstan was an integral part of the overall economy of the USSR. That is, no one except certain enterprises in other parts of the USSR manufactured by us is needed. And then they divided and look for markets. Then privatization. In general, everything fell apart. The machines went for scrap, the staff ran away, the technology was lost and outdated, to be honest. By and large, I had to start a lot from scratch. I could not do without jambs, I do not argue. But poorly poorly recovering the same? Still plow and plow. God willing, in 50 years there will be a decent level, I think. If bribery and corruption do not ruin everything. We have to go along the path of Singapore. Well, of course, always be friends with Russia. She has flaws, ups and downs, pluses and minuses, but she does not choose her brothers) In any case, this people is special. They have their own mission on the globe. Just not turned. I apologize for the structure of the text and the confusion, I am writing from a mobile phone!
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 8 July 2015 09: 43
        0
        Quote: diver1977
        We have to go along the path of Singapore.

        This is not the first time I hear this from Kazakhs. And every time I have doubts that the experience of Singapore is applicable to Kazakhstan, as well as to other states.
        Quote: diver1977
        God willing, in 50 years there will be a decent level, I think.

        It’s a pity only to live in this wonderful time, neither I nor you will have to. laughing
        Quote: diver1977
        If bribery and corruption do not ruin everything.

        There is such a no less terrible thing as indifference.
        Quote: diver1977
        In any case, this people is special. They have their own mission on the globe. Just not turned.

        It is interesting what?
        1. diver1977
          diver1977 9 July 2015 07: 40
          +1
          Read Lee Kuan Yu. What condition Singapore was and what it turned into. His experience is not just suitable - it must be adopted for tracing paper! There were the same problems. The book is FIRE.
          Regarding life in 50 years, the Almighty alone knows. I am going to live forever - while everything is going according to plan (s) :)
          Regarding the mission, it’s obvious to be a counterbalance to Western civilization, to carry other spiritual values, to prevent the world from being unipolar. This is confirmed by the failure of Napoleon and Hitler's plans - two waves that crashed against Russia, but could capture and redraw the world.
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 9 July 2015 10: 11
            0
            Quote: diver1977
            Read Lee Kuan Yu. What condition Singapore was and what it turned into. His experience is not just suitable - it must be adopted for tracing paper! There were the same problems. The book is FIRE.

            Singapore is Singapore, Kazakhstan is Kazakhstan. Other distances, different mentality, other neighbors, other resources, another story. Tracing will not help you.
            Quote: diver1977
            Regarding life in 50 years, the Almighty alone knows. I am going to live forever - while everything is going according to plan (s) :)

            Yes, man assumes, but God disposes. It’s just a bright future, it’s like a horizon to which you can’t reach. smile
            Quote: diver1977
            Regarding the mission, it’s obvious to be a counterbalance to Western civilization, to carry other spiritual values, to prevent the world from being unipolar. This is confirmed by the failure of Napoleon and Hitler's plans - two waves that crashed against Russia, but could capture and redraw the world.

            What is the mission of the Kazakhs? Still, the ways of the Lord are inscrutable. Your version is very interesting, but I think that the idea is somewhat larger. smile
  12. Valery T.
    Valery T. 7 July 2015 22: 34
    -5
    Bullshit. Stated with amazing aplomb. And in the end - just take out the saints at least ... Tengrians, they, fuck ...
    They have a unique color sky ... They raised virgin soil ...
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 8 July 2015 00: 16
      +6
      What's the problem? We had Tengrianism is a fact. And my paternal grandfather and his father worked on the virgin lands, the second grandfather went through the whole war. What's wrong again? Why is it always necessary to rise at the expense of belittling someone? Do you generally respect anyone in life?
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 8 July 2015 00: 35
        +1
        Quote: diver1977
        What's the problem? We had Tengrianism is a fact. And my paternal grandfather and his father worked on the virgin lands, the second grandfather went through the whole war. What's wrong again?

        It's like that. And the problem is not yet, let's not create it from scratch. Enough of Ukraine already.

        And my grandfathers fought, and my father and mother worked on the virgin lands .. father from Stavropol, mother from the Moscow region.

        Quote: diver1977
        Why is it always necessary to rise at the expense of belittling someone?

        You tell this to Ereka .. clearly comrade burrows, oh, do not be him major .. No.
  13. Yereke
    Yereke 7 July 2015 22: 55
    -1
    if you recall the story, then let's remember everything, and not pieces, which is beneficial only to one
  14. Yereke
    Yereke 7 July 2015 22: 59
    0
    the border of Kazakhstan, even without Sarytau (Saratov), ​​Astyrthan (Astarkhan) ... CrimeaOur appeal is that Khrushch illegally took from the Russian Federation and transferred to Ukraine, then let Orenburg also be taken back illegally from us, the lands of which the same Khrushch betrayed to Uzbeks and the Turkmens .. if it weren’t for Tashenov that and the northern regions Kazakhstan would also give the same Khrushch to the Russians
    1. ASK505
      ASK505 8 July 2015 09: 53
      -2
      And what did the Kazakhs create and built before Saratov and Astrakhan? Railroad, factories, factories, telephone, telegraph, letter, plumbing? The "Russian language" of this Ereka still needs to be translated into Russian in order to understand this gibberish.
      1. Yereke
        Yereke 8 July 2015 16: 01
        -1
        say thank you that I am writing in your "Russian gibberish" .. unlike you, except for my native language, I know yours, because of the imperial yoke of the USSR. I could even send in Kazakh so that you translate it.
        What did the Kazakhs build before Sarytau ?! Duc, it was not necessary with the help of the Cossacks of the Kazakhs to evict from there and not those willing to kill and Russian peasants to populate those regions. We remember who else killed our ancestors there and even as the 1916th forcibly Kazakhs as slaves were forcibly taken to the front line so that the slave can dig trenches by force !!! If the union had not collapsed for another 20 years, then I could smell Northern Kazakhstan as well, according to the type of CrimeaNash.
        1. ASK505
          ASK505 9 July 2015 19: 48
          -1
          Another small people after the ancient ukrov oppressed by the "imperial yoke of the USSR". If the Anglo-Saxons came instead of the Russians, the Kazakhs would repeat the fate of the Indians. Everything you use is made thanks to the Russian Civilization. Oppressed you are ours, with such rubbish in your head, you can reach the Maidan. And in Kazakh you can send, if you want, as you sent everyone who left you. Thanked.
  15. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 00
    +4
    Quote: diver1977
    And then you behave like a beautiful woman who definitely needs an ugly girlfriend)))

    +100500! It couldn't be better. So, in every phrase, the disappointment that the "lumps" did not die of hunger and "themselves did not get on their knees" to their big white brother was rushing in every phrase.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 06
    0
    Quote: diver1977
    What's the problem? We had Tengrianism is a fact. And my paternal grandfather and his father worked on the virgin lands, the second grandfather went through the whole war. What's wrong again?

    The problem is that there are no arguments, he does not know history and does not want to know (besides myths about the burden of a white person). Well and most importantly - resentment and anger all over the world for the collapse of the USSR. I call this a bruise of the Imperial consciousness.
  18. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 17
    +6
    Quote: concept1
    And another 70 cities, hundreds of factories, power plants, institutes, etc.

    Nobody argues with this.
    It’s just that here some people, as usual, are trying to prove that the Kazakhs from being part of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR had only big, big pluses, and I’m free to say that the Kazakhs should be grateful to Russia for this before the end of centuries, that Kazakhstan is doomed without sensitive leadership from the Kremlin, and But you won’t erase the words from the song, there were famine, repressions, polygons, and environmental disasters, etc.
    As a result, minus to plus gives zero.
    We do not put forward claims and are not going to, unlike some, but we do not believe that we owe it our lifelong gratitude.
    The sooner you understand and accept this, the better it will be for relations between our peoples.
    And they will grow stronger in any way, it cannot be otherwise, from history, geography, geoeconomics you can’t get anywhere, like it or not.
  19. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 29
    +2
    Quote: ASK505
    The transfer of the capital to a neoplasm - Astana had as its goal to stake out territories with the historically Russian population beyond Kazakhstan.

    What are the historical Russian lands east of the Ural ridge? How long has the Moscow principality "climbed" over it?
    "Historically" the Russian population in Kazakhstan in general and in Northern Kazakhstan in particular, for the most part, appeared in the 20th century during the Stolypin reform and the development of virgin lands. Also played a role the fact that Northern Kazakhstan was particularly hard hit by famine during collectivization. As a result, if in Soviet times in Kazakhstan, Kazakhs were 30% of the total population of the Kazakh SSR, then in the north they remained generally 10-15 percent. This is the origin of the myth about the "historical" Russian lands of the Northern KZ.
    And it doesn’t matter anymore. What was, was. The Kazakhs have owned Tashkent for 200 years, so what, besides, what is nice to remember?
    Our border is completely delimited and demarcated. And the point.
    1. w3554152
      w3554152 8 July 2015 14: 57
      0
      Quote: Nomad
      How long has the Moscow principality "climbed" over it?


      The principality of Moscow is not a thief and did not climb through fences.
    2. ymNIK1970
      ymNIK1970 8 July 2015 19: 45
      0
      "Our border is completely delimited and demarcated. Period." Your border, dear, runs between 2 half-copies. My relatives lived in Verny and taught some people to pee while standing. I am not exaggerating. Your hutspatye statements in the direction of the Russians and Russia, will bring the aul savages to moral annihilation. Kazakh citizens, behave yourself, otherwise you will face the unenviable fate of ukrov.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 9 July 2015 18: 47
        -2
        Quote: ASK505
        What would Kazakhs be without Russians?
        belay
        Quote: ASK505
        what would happen to the Kazakhs if there were Anglo-Saxons in place of the Russians?
        For example, Singapore, Hong Kong or India, Pakistan, and maybe Canada with Australia ..
        Quote: ymNIK1970
        and taught some people to write standing.
        Then, the pissing "smart guys" were allowed to shit ..
        Quote: ymNIK1970
        Kazakh citizens, behave yourself, otherwise you will find the unenviable fate of ukrov
        That would be dill itself, the rules of decency observed ..
        Quote: ymNIK1970
        "Your border, my dear, is between 2 half-copies.
        I see your geintegration is in full swing. "Ukrainian tse Geupa ?!" laughing
        1. ymNIK1970
          ymNIK1970 9 July 2015 19: 32
          +1
          Dear Alibekulu. Do you have a tail print? If not, put and present to the venerable public for review. There is doubt that you are a person. There is a suspicion that you are a bot. Develop doubt, write something adequate to human thinking. drinks
  20. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 35
    +6
    Quote: rosarioagro
    Yes, why then in 1719 they asked Anna Ivanovna for protection, well, would they live independently and sovereignly? Was it bad?

    You see, dear, in fact, most Kazakhs accepted Russian citizenship after the Chinese massacred the Dzungar in 1758, and the transition to Russian citizenship dragged on until the mid-19th century. Moreover, it was precisely the Kazakhs of the Middle and Senior Zhuzes (southern, central, eastern and northern Kazakhstan) who suffered most from the wars with the Dzungars.
    And before the adoption of Russian citizenship, the Senior and Middle Zhuz visited Chinese citizenship, which in fact boiled down to the fact that the Chinese periodically sent out detachments that, at the risk of their lives, collected tribute from border villages. At the same time, China made various concessions to the nomads, so that they would not especially buzz, and did not look towards Russia. So the rumors about the threat of the destruction of Kazakhs by the Chinese are also greatly exaggerated.
    Yes, the tsar’s decree on accepting Kazakhs into Russian citizenship came out on 19.02.1731/XNUMX/XNUMX, but most Kazakhs had no idea that they were accepted by the white king’s arm))) The fact is that the khan of the Younger Zhuz Abulkhair elementarily deceived the Empress Anna Ionanovna, stating , which advocates accepting citizenship on behalf of the entire Kazakh aristocracy. In fact, it was his initiative, which even in the Younger Zhuz knew only a few of his associates.
    For those who don’t know, the Younger Zhuz is the western part of Kazakhstan, which was farthest from the Dzungars and the Chinese, so the threat from them was at the very last place on the list of Abulkhair’s motives.
    By the way, the Kazakhs did ask for help from Russia during the wars with the Dzungars before 1731, but the tsarist government preferred neutrality, and the Kazakhs did not receive help.
    The Kazakhs won the most bloody war of 1723-1730 from the Dzungars, albeit with enormous losses, and liberated most of the Kazakh lands that the Dzungars occupied for several decades before.
    Without the help of Russia, simply because not a single Russian soldier in the KZ at that time was close.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 41
    +2
    Kazakhstan as part of the Russian Empire. Many believe that it was the Bolsheviks who "gave" North Kazakhstan to the Kazakhs. You can see from this map that they did not. Northern Kazakhstan was also Kazakh under the kings. The Russian tsars loved the Kazakhs, their newly minted subjects so much that they immediately presented them with Russian lands? Moreover, the "Russian" North Kazakhstan was annexed not in the form of one region, which would be both simpler and more logical, but divided it between three purely Kazakh regions?
    No, simply these lands were Kazakh for centuries, the Russians appeared there later.
    No offense, nothing personal, just a story.
    1. Yereke
      Yereke 8 July 2015 16: 07
      -1
      the goal of weaning Orynbor, OmBy, Sarytau from the Kazakhs is not only the expansion of the Russians, but also the main thing is to divide the Turks (Bashkirs, Tatars, Kazakhs) so that they do not have a common border. Divide and conquer, therefore they settled Russians between us. The Türks were artificially divided by the Russian Empire. Tatarstan could become independent 1991 (one of the conditions for separation was to have a border with a foreign state, that is, they would have one border with Kazakhstan!) If there was a common border with Kazakhstan !! And so on along the chain of Bashkir, Sakha ..
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 05: 45
    +1
    Kazakhstan 1920-1929. It is very clearly visible that, to whom and when transferred.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 8 July 2015 05: 52
      0
      Quote: Nomad
      Kazakhstan 1920-1929. It is very clear that, to whom and when

      Nomad, only no offense .. well, all states had periods of expansion and contraction of the territory ..

      Let me find you a map of China, how they draw it at home, together we will laugh ..

      Well you as children, right request
      1. Yereke
        Yereke 8 July 2015 16: 11
        -4
        then there was no need to touch the Crimea and no one was going to cut Russian there. Our Kazakh Russians were there in Ukraine and said that all this is nonsense and that they did not cut and humiliate the Russians there, that it was propaganda from the Russian Federation. Maybe the Nazis-Natsik there and there but do not have to compare all the people with them. We have fascists and Natsiks and Russians, too, but we do not compare you with them together. They want the same. Gubarev from the DNR was in the RNU in the 90s
  25. Nomad
    Nomad 8 July 2015 09: 22
    +3
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    Nomad, only no offense .. well, all states had periods of expansion and contraction of the territory ..

    So I say, this is history, but for some reason it is from the Russian side that the question of the lands of Northern Kazakhstan arises again and again.
    Well, you, as children, right? request
    As the song says, “we don’t want an inch of foreign land, but we won’t give up our inch either.”
    All changes in the borders that are depicted on this map are recorded by many documents of the Soviet era, these are not fantasies of cheers, which, as I understand it, you are hinting at. And the map itself, apparently, was drawn under the Union.
    1. IS-80
      IS-80 8 July 2015 09: 59
      +1
      Quote: Nomad
      So I say, this is history, but for some reason it is from the Russian side that the question of the lands of Northern Kazakhstan arises again and again.

      We lived together for so many years, we fought with each other, then together against someone. How can we consider the land of Kazakhstan alien? Of course Kazakhstan is ours, Russian. And the Kazakhs are also Russian, only Kazakhs.
  26. Love
    Love 8 July 2015 17: 23
    0
    Quote: marshes
    Quote: Gromm
    , Chokan Valikhanov, and Abai

    It's funny, these are representatives of the "north" of Kazakhstan, the one who asked for the protection of the Republic of Ingushetia from the west of Kazakhstan, was later killed. But those who suffered the most later were their descendants, relatives.
    And the south, as it passed.

    Here I remembered the words of my teacher Ospanov: "We are Kazakhs - people like that, first we sit together arak drinking, then grab the knives, find out who is from which zhuz ..."
    1. ASK505
      ASK505 9 July 2015 20: 01
      -1
      Some limited and narrow-minded citizens came to the Russian site - they shook their rights in a strange house and threatened to send everyone who disagreed with them in Kazakh to the anatomical address. Yes to health, Russian Kazakhs will not be needed. If there are no brains in Ukraine, then Uncle Sam will instantly cure the next maydaun of the brain.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 10 July 2015 17: 10
        -1
        Quote: ymNIK1970
        You have a print on the tail
        Nerd, if you have a banderlog, there is one, that doesn’t mean that normal people have this ..
        Quote: ymNIK1970
        Develop doubt, write something adequate to human thinking.
        You yourself would try, see the galleries ..
        PS. By the way, dick, do you write from the trenches of Donbass ?! soldier
        Quote: ASK505
        came to a Russian site in a strange house
        Why did you come to the American Internet, invented by the Bogomerz amecocs ?!
        The computer from which you access Amer’s Internet is most likely assembled in China.
        Even the alphabet, whose letters you type this text, is not a Russian invention ..
        As they write there “The coat of arms is Byzantine. The flag is Dutch. "