Military Review

Stay. I will not shoot

85
Stay. I will not shoot


Tragic история with the death of the junior sergeant of the Moscow police Andrei Bannov during the detention of the offender again highlighted the problem of the preparedness of employees and their right to use weapons.

Recall that on the night of May 27, a Gazel with an alleged ATM hijacker was caught up by police at the 25 kilometer of the Moscow ring road. One of the criminals immediately tried to hide in a forest belt located on the other side of the highway. He rushed through the Moscow Ring Road, and after him, after the younger police sergeant Andrei Bannov rushed.

He caught up with the gangster, but failed to hold him up, as he received three blows with a knife in the stomach. The offender beat immediately to defeat. Later, the killer - 25-year-old Azerbaijani citizen Nemat Rashidov - was taken to a Moscow apartment, and during the arrest he tried to resist the police.

Andrei Bannov was posthumously awarded the Order of "Courage." Eternal glory to him and the same memory. But, as it should be after such tragedies, the police department had to undergo a thorough analysis of the incident. And colleagues must answer a number of very unpleasant questions for themselves. Yes, at least one: why did Andrei pursue the gangster alone and without weapons?

The death of the police in such situations, unfortunately, is not uncommon. Every year in Russia, hundreds of policemen die in the line of duty. Here is a dry statistic. In 2010, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia lost 410 employees, in 2011 and 2012, these figures exceeded 300 people annually, and in the following years - although they decreased significantly, they still remained unacceptably high. In fact, one policeman dies every day in Russia, several more are injured and injured. In most cases, this happens during the arrest of criminals and in the attack on employees to seize weapons.

Recall that in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Alexander Makarov, head of the Main Directorate of Internal Security of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, said that police have recently been targeted more often than in the nineties: “In nine months of 2012, 9519 attacks occurred, more than 50 employees died. This is comparable with a full-time police station serving a community in which approximately 50 thousands of residents are registered. "

What is going on? Why do people called to protect residents sometimes become victims of bandits themselves? The correspondent of "RG" talked with a dozen employees working, so to speak, "on the ground" - operas, precinct, patrol. From all heard, you can make two conclusions. First, he is the most banal and obvious: poor preparation. The second one is paradoxical: the police (adults, men wise with life and combat experience) are simply afraid to use weapons — they torture with prosecution and other checks. And not the fact that they will acquit, you can fly out of the service, or even sit down. It is better to try to do somehow without shooting - maybe it will. Maybe Andrei Bannov, having heard a lot of senior comrades, also decided to “somehow manage”?

So, about the combat and physical fitness. The problem is that for almost twenty years nobody seriously trained employees of the internal affairs bodies. Sounds, of course, wild, but - a fact. The author of these lines, with amazement, learned that with the collapse of the USSR, it was collapsed, or rather, ceased to exist, and the special training system. And the new impulse “science of the special forces police” received only after the first Chechen war. Even such superfighters as sobrovtsy collected their methods literally from scratch and from systems of different special forces, according to the principle - who served where before. The former paratrooper captain, say, shared with the new colleagues the features of the battle in the environment, the Marine - overcoming water obstacles, the "maroon beret" - how to storm the building. So, gradually everything superfluous was filtered out and the most necessary was collected. Now the Russian police "specialists" of the "Lynx" squadron are giving odds to many of their foreign counterparts. It is known that even the famous Austrian “Cobra” was not ashamed to admit that it had adopted many tricks from the Russians. For example, landing from a helicopter on the heads of terrorists.

But this is special forces. But with the usual guards, precinct and operas, everything is still much worse. They were not prepared at all. If you do not take seriously the "course of the young fighter", which each recruit to the police passes in the Center for professional training of the territorial body of internal affairs, where he is going to serve. And from time to time, they are satisfied with the so-called inspection inspection test for professional suitability. The police openly admit that this is a common formality.

In principle, on paper, everything looks right and even beautiful. The Law "On Police" states that "a police officer is obliged to undergo special training, as well as periodic checks on professional competence to act in conditions connected with the use of physical force, special means and firearms." But the paradox is that in most of the territorial internal affairs agencies there is no organization of combat and service training of employees. Moreover, there are practically no staff instructors in combat and physical training in the Russian Interior Ministry. As a rule, the functions of organizing and conducting official employment are assigned to personnel employees. Is it necessary to explain that many personnel officers are able to conduct serious practical exercises only optional? At best, they gather personnel to read orders and even conduct firing. The policeman put three or four bullets a month into the target, depending on the number of the planned exercise from a Makarov pistol, almost a sniper. That is, operas and patrols do not teach not only some special tactics of street fighting, the specifics of detention, but even elementary methods of sambo and the rules of aiming from a pistol. There are simply no such teachers. As in the joke: they gave the PM, a baton and a certificate - turn around as you can. But not everyone can. And this leads to tragedies.

The situation is best in Moscow. A year ago, the head of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia for Moscow, Lieutenant General of Police Anatoly Yakunin issued an order on special combat training for all police officers. For this, he ordered to create an institute of staff instructors. 200 should be made from police by skillful fighters by specially trained officers headed by the head of the district vocational training center. Study takes place in five special centers.

Policemen are trained by a special technique, which is fundamentally different from all other combat systems, where all manipulations ultimately result in murder or, at best, in severe disability. Their main task is to deliver alive and, preferably, the whole person suspected of a crime. After all, it is not yet a fact that he is a dangerous criminal, even if he tries to object to the police. All of his actions will study the investigation, and evaluate - the court. However, according to experts, the traditional system of combat and service training is ineffective. The whole trouble is that in most training centers, the rate in the learning process is placed on an unresisting enemy, on static situations, on stationary poses - on something that does not happen in life. Life is always movement. In the new methodology, employees are not repelled by schematic methods, but by the circumstances that have emerged at the moment. A person immersed in a modeled reality begins to survive in it through the tactics of movement, possession of weapons, improvised, and communicative means.

Here is just one example. On the usual household scandal came three policemen. One officer presses the bell button, the door opens, and from there, an ax falls down on top of it. The second man barely manages to push his comrade with his foot, otherwise he would have been cut in half. On the threshold, a drunken Amber in shorts and a T-shirt with an ax, yells: "I will decide everything!" One policeman is trying to twist the rowdy with the help of the traditional bend of the hand behind his back. And the apartment is small-sized, the corridor is narrow, the ambal in it barely fits. And the employee has no room for maneuver. He twists his arm, and twist something nowhere. His colleague, in order to save a comrade, with all his might, beats the peasant with his foot in the groin, but to that at least that! He is the second, third time, all to no avail. As a result, the rowdy was thrown into a corner, the three of them were pinned down, and strapped. Caused the help and "First Aid". And the arriving doctors were stunned: "Yes, this is our old client, he is registered in the mental hospital. He has no pain threshold at all." So neither bending a hand, nor a blow to the groin would help to hold it. Just a little bit, and he would have packed all three patrolmen with an ax.

But this problem - with the training of employees - is completely solved within the police department. And it is gradually solved.

But what about the other - the fear of responsibility? In the words of Prussian King Frederick II, "a soldier is afraid of the sergeant-major felice more than the bullets of the enemy." Remember, in the summer of 2013, at the Moscow Matveyevskiy market, they broke the head of the police captain Anton Kudryashov - the opera of the district "slaughter" department of the search? Then he came to detain a minor rapist. But he ran into an aggressive crowd of Caucasians and found himself in a hospital bed, miraculously remaining alive.

How would the law have to detain? In the Ministry of Internal Affairs there is a regulation, where the sequence of actions of employees during the detention, inspection, search and convoy of people suspected of a crime is described. This is a document for special use, that is, it can hardly be read in free access. But it is known that at least 3 armed officers must leave for detention. If the future detainee is not dangerous - he follows a “fraudulent” article, then for security purposes the operatives keep in touch with the duty personnel of the teaching staff, the immediate response team. Typically, this is the 2 or 3 crew on the 3 employee each. If it is necessary to take armed and dangerous gangsters, conduct searches in the company where there is a private security company, connect the SWAT. Moreover, the head of the Department of Internal Affairs is obliged to make an application to the Special Forces Center in advance, so to speak, order a "mask show."

Moreover, when there was a threat to life, they were obliged to shoot - there was a clear attack on a police officer. The first shot - a warning in the air, the second - in the leg or to the defeat, you must act according to circumstances (as required by the police regulations). But in practice, as you know, the police are afraid to use weapons - the prosecutor's office thoroughly investigates each shooting case, especially if there are victims. Therefore, at that time, the explanations of the beaten Kudryashov, that he did not want to shoot because of a large crowd of people, his superiors were taken quite favorably.

By the way, exactly the same argument was put forward by the employees of the St. Petersburg security company "Alex West", transporting money belonging to the bank "Otkritie". Last year, the hijackers attacked the raiders and took 139 million rubles. The guards did not shoot back - the attack occurred in a crowded place and they were afraid to hurt passersby. Perhaps this is correct, especially since the court took their side. But, on the other hand, and if the bandits shot down these humane "non-opponents", as often happens with collectors?

The interlocutors of the "RG" in law enforcement agencies believe that it is necessary to change the practice of bringing to responsibility for the use of police weapons. It is clear that there is a danger of “bending the stick,” but the constant “syndrome of future guilt” does not contribute to the normal performance of official duties by law enforcement officers.

How are they?


In the US, this situation is impossible in principle. The police officer has the right to shoot immediately to defeat at the slightest suspicion of possible aggression against him. Recently, a court acquitted a policeman who shot a black teenager. They killed people armed with toy pistols. They killed even because the person dropped his hand too quickly into his pocket - what if he reached for his weapon? Therefore, the American police always warn the people they are turning to: do not make sudden movements, keep your hands in sight, and get your documents very slowly.

According to The Washington Post, in the first five months of 2015, US police shot and killed 385 people.

In March, 2015, the American police killed 111 people. Curiously, since 1900, all of the UK police have killed 52 people.

On average, two people are killed in the United States every day as a result of shooting by law enforcement officers. In general, the vast majority of the victims - more than 80 percent - were armed with firearms or melee weapons. As it turned out, out of 385 cases of death of people from police bullets, only in three cases law enforcement officers were charged with criminal charges, which is less than 1 percent. Over the past decade, American police have opened fire thousands of times, and criminal charges have been made only in 54 cases.

The USA Patriot Act, adopted after the 11 terrorists' September 2001 attack on the World Trade Center, gave the police almost unlimited powers. Congress passed the law almost unanimously.

After its adoption, the killings flywheel by police began to gain momentum. The number of shot citizens, where they could have done without shooting, has increased significantly. Utah occupies the first place in incidents - it accounts for 15 percent of such victims. The court, as a rule, justifies the shooters.
Author:
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http://www.rg.ru/2015/06/09/oruzhie.html
85 comments
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 10 June 2015 05: 32
    +33
    so ticklish ... an acquaintance "flunked" the bandyugan in self-defense, acquitted and ... fired. request
    1. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 10 June 2015 08: 30
      +2
      The question in the article should not be "not to kill a bandit at the risk of his life or kill a Russian policeman at the risk of his place and freedom?"

      and so, "What, what kind of weapon can be invented for the police to neutralize a suspect, a possible criminal?"

      There is one, effective way that will negate such a question!
      This is "to invent a bicycle", a shocker that shoots at a long distance, up to ten meters, for example. Shot - a person falls to the ground with a pillar and convulses until a cop throws handcuffs on him, and there is no need to kill or injure him, although there is one drawback, if a person is sick with a heart, he may "grunt" from the current, but this is rare.

      You can also "invent" a pistol with a strong sleeping pill on the needle, fired and he suddenly fainted, and so on, when nuclear missiles and "smart" tanks are released, such things are trifling, they just do not want to be at the top, there will be an order - researchers, biologists and engineers for any money - any whim. But, it is not profitable yet, apparently if the life of a soldier has just begun to appreciate doing "warriors", then the life of a cop is still not so valuable, unfortunately.

      PySy. And for the especially armed, who love to shoot from buildings, Thank God, there is "heavy armored artillery" in the person of SOBR, FSKN and other professional guys who know how and know how to competently "break in" stubborn, uncompromising scoundrels.
      1. RBLip
        RBLip 10 June 2015 11: 35
        +3
        Quote: Max_Bauder
        And for the especially armed, who like to shoot from buildings, Thank God, there is "heavy armored artillery

        Yes, every police is needed, every one is important. and such too wink
    2. dobryak19
      dobryak19 10 June 2015 09: 09
      +9
      In 2014, an acquaintance from the military police department threw a burglar in his head, somehow otmazatsya, almost planted, although all the actions were correct. They didn’t note it at all, he says that he will never use weapons again in life ... let the criminal escape better than survive this again ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. wow
      wow 10 June 2015 20: 12
      +1
      A very sensitive topic, or maybe the Americans are right in something ...?
  2. Corcap
    Corcap 10 June 2015 05: 35
    +15
    I did not have time to pass the tests for obtaining a time sheet ...
    Was it possible to equip the "Taser" at least?
    Here, BIG QUESTIONS, to the police, HOW, WHY (?!?!), Unarmed officers, who have been working for a week without a year, are sent to patrol?
    1. denisey
      denisey 10 June 2015 07: 00
      +9
      Quote: Corcap
      I did not have time to pass the tests for obtaining a time sheet ...
      Was it possible to equip the "Taser" at least?
      Here, BIG QUESTIONS, to the police, HOW, WHY (?!?!), Unarmed officers, who have been working for a week without a year, are sent to patrol?

      Because the employee, as I understand it, just finished school, got out of vacation and did not pass the tests for carrying weapons yet, I think something like that. But in general, the problem is serious:
      1 In the summer, another "optimization" is underway. They will cut one of the services working on the ground of the OVO by a third, although now two people are already working in the crews, which is extremely unacceptable.
      2. Loads due to reductions increased, people work for the place they had laid for three days two days (a non-iron body will malfunction anyway)
      3 The attitude of management towards employees in one word "no man, no problem"
      4 etc
      1. antikilller55
        antikilller55 10 June 2015 09: 05
        +1
        That's right. Schedules only at all are different and day-night-two at home, day or two.
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 10 June 2015 08: 02
      +3
      Quote: Corcap
      I did not have time to pass the tests for obtaining a time sheet ...

      I knew one employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, who is 3 (!!) yes time sheets about ... Lost, in general. Only 1 was returned ... True, in the 90s no one was torn to the police, especially in our city. Therefore, they kept it. Then he began to register machines, then he became an entrepreneur ...
    3. Bassoon
      Bassoon 10 June 2015 08: 10
      +3
      Well, the taser is exotic for our realities. Could the trauma "Makarych" at least or gas to give once the battle are afraid to hand over at first.
      1. Grenader
        Grenader 10 June 2015 08: 41
        +12
        Quote: Fagot
        The Police Law states that “a police officer is required to undergo special training, as well as periodic testing for professional fitness to act in conditions involving the use of physical force, special means and firearms”. But here's the paradox - in the majority of territorial internal affairs bodies there is no organization of combat and service training of employees.

        The police simply have no time to conduct physical training classes. After the reform, the staff was greatly reduced. Instructors were fired, and employees work so much that there is simply no time to prepare.
        1. Terrible ensign
          Terrible ensign 10 June 2015 10: 08
          +2
          Everything is the same and the network ... First, with the reform, and then with the "optimization" in the authorities, everything becomes "more fun and more fun" ...
      2. antikilller55
        antikilller55 10 June 2015 09: 10
        +1
        They’re not afraid, they simply didn’t pass the tests, the deputy didn’t make the card, and they did not fix the PM. Makarycha and gas are not in service, especially Tasers, which the majority on TV and saw only.
        1. taram taramych
          taram taramych 10 June 2015 09: 36
          -6
          Well, the reason is in the organization of work, razvizdaystvo. They think if they put on a uniform, all the plebs should stand on tiptoe and not breathe. You need to do more, even on your own, if there is no time for the captain!
          1. tolancop
            tolancop 10 June 2015 16: 17
            +6
            And the captain on the employee piled up so much that in order to clear out DIRECT duties, you need to have 25 hours, or better 27 hours. In these conditions, you can simply forget about serious trainings, because they really DO NOT HAVE TIME. A couple of years ago, he was present with his comrade during the filing of an application for theft. I personally saw that by the end of the day the operas were already just having a hard time navigating in space due to overwork ... And the view was clearly tired ... There was no question of observing the norms of working hours ..
            1. taram taramych
              taram taramych 10 June 2015 20: 49
              -1
              Quote: tolancop
              you can just forget about serious training

              And you can shoot yourself right away! After all, the presence of a uniform does not make anyone invulnerable.
        2. Yeraz
          Yeraz 10 June 2015 13: 43
          +9
          Quote: antikilller55
          It's not about fear

          They are afraid of it. Everyone is afraid to shoot. More or less criminals are afraid of old operas, since these can shoot, since the pension is close and they will fire him and he will retire.
          You just did not see prosecutors who hang like jackals over you if you use weapons.
      3. Corcap
        Corcap 10 June 2015 09: 24
        0
        Quote: Fagot
        Well, the taser is exotic for our realities. Could the trauma "Makarych" at least or gas to give once the battle are afraid to hand over at first.

        Any option is acceptable when it contributes to the execution by the officer of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of his official powers ...
    4. antikilller55
      antikilller55 10 June 2015 09: 04
      +1
      I’ll tell you a secret, this is a common practice in the police.
  3. carter38
    carter38 10 June 2015 05: 46
    +10
    The East Siberian Institute of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Irkutsk will not give a nest to learn corruption without drift.
    1. Corcap
      Corcap 10 June 2015 06: 02
      +9
      Quote: carter38
      The East Siberian Institute of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Irkutsk will not give a nest to learn corruption without drift.

      I don’t know how "EXCELLENT" is in the UZ you mentioned, but in Kiev, even before the war, under Yushchenko, in order to enter the Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, you had to pay (bribe) $ 7 pieces.
      Naturally, graduates, immediately, "headlong" went into "beating the attendants".

      What legality is there ...
      1. taram taramych
        taram taramych 10 June 2015 09: 41
        +2
        I will say more, they sent a lot of money with the kids, attached them to their own safety. It’s good to shake, so much abomination falls out, and relatives who suddenly became successful landowners and migrant slaves. Vespiary.
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 10 June 2015 07: 03
      +2
      Quote: carter38
      and factory owner

      The manager, is the vice-rector for administrative work? Um ... Not surprising.
  4. Strashila
    Strashila 10 June 2015 05: 51
    +5
    The question is different, why employees don’t wear class 1 bulletproof vests, they won’t protect them from a bullet, and easily against cold steel.
    A friend started his service 20 years ago as a simple employee, accompanied by passenger trains ... he noticed such an armor then ... like a hidden vest, asked why you don’t wear it, it’s not convenient ... what I said ... stupid. He began to wear, while checking documents in the train they poked with a sharpener ... thanks bronik.
    1. Corcap
      Corcap 10 June 2015 05: 57
      +5
      Quote: Strashila
      The question is different, why employees do not wear 1 class body armor

      All these violations, like patrolling without weapons, protective equipment, are systemic in nature.
      I believe that the most compelling part of the blame for the death of this employee lies with the leadership of the Internal Affairs Directorate ...
    2. Bassoon
      Bassoon 10 June 2015 06: 06
      0
      They dress them, but only during mass events ... Every day I go to the subway, where the bulk of the police only go in uniform. However, if on Saturday they play CSKA - Spartak, then on each branch you can see the police in armor and with special equipment ....
      1. Hell's Angel
        Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 07: 07
        +5
        Have you noticed how the cops carry weapons? Closed leather holster on w .. e. The gun is not charged, there is no cartridge in the chamber, because it is forbidden.
        How long will it take a policeman to fire a shot from this position?
        Once in Novosibirsk, two PPS officers decided to check the documents with a suspicious citizen. Total. One 200th, the second 300th. They did not even have time to unfasten the cabarets. Now the question. And who answered for this? I think the answer is obvious. They themselves are to blame.
        1. zadorin1974
          zadorin1974 10 June 2015 08: 38
          +15
          You colleagues apparently didn’t read the article well. The whole problem is in the legislation. They squeezed employees to such an extent that they are afraid to fart without a command from the authorities. The traffic police is trying to stop a drunken intruder — he is flying in a car in the city and you can stop him only by shooting him with wheels or an engine. But opening fire requires the permission of the department duty officer — who doesn’t want to take responsibility — calls back to the authorities and so on. As a result, there’s a call back, a drunk ghoul will either knock someone or fly into someone (it’s good if he will manage without injuries). the armor is basically really slovenliness of employees and the lack of control of the management (they don’t wear it before the check or state of emergency, then everyone starts dragging it to the show, for two weeks, then everything is back to square one). At the expense of the closed holster and the discharged weapon: form (try replacing the authorized holster with RAM; you’ll get such lyuli on a divorce) And at the expense of the lack of police training, it simply doesn’t It was.
          1. Bassoon
            Bassoon 10 June 2015 10: 00
            -1
            Quote: zadorin1974
            And at the expense of the lack of police training, it simply does not exist and did not exist.

            Well, in the same riot police and SOBR and in the RPF, the training was probably delivered as it should.
            1. zadorin1974
              zadorin1974 10 June 2015 10: 08
              +4
              And you, dear Bassoon, do not confuse the soft with the warm. These specialists are also the only ones with a certain preparation. They do not go on patrol with drawing up protocols, they do not often communicate with people.
          2. Terrible ensign
            Terrible ensign 10 June 2015 10: 25
            0
            I completely agree with you! hi
        2. AndreyS
          AndreyS 10 June 2015 10: 16
          +10
          Quote: Hell Angel
          How long will it take a policeman to fire a shot from this position?

          According to the standards of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a shot should occur in the 3-5th second. But there is a large number of all BUT !!!!!! Starting from the distance to the criminal and ending with the psychological readiness of a person to get a gun and shoot. The last one is the most difficult, since our legislation does not approve of shooting at criminals, even if they are with weapons. And the Law "On the Police" directly indicates that it is necessary to injure a criminal, and if a criminal dies as a result of a shot, our "wonderful" investigative bodies will consider it a murder (police officers are punished to the maximum, i.e. where a civilian will be given probation, there the policeman has a maximum term) And if a wounded (I repeat) criminal says that he did not want to use a weapon against an employee, then hello article for abuse of power! It is very indicative, by the way, the case of a girl who shot in the subway, trying to prevent her friends from being beaten. By the way, even when several people attack one employee and he detains them (with bodily harm), then (you will not believe) the employee exceeds his official powers, since he has special training, and the attackers did not want to do anything bad to him, yes and generally do not know how to fight !!!!!!
          DO YOU HAVE A DESIRE AFTER SUCH EXAMPLES TO SHOOT at the employee's place? !!!
          Well, something like this.
          1. Slavs69
            Slavs69 10 June 2015 11: 52
            +1
            Quote: AndreyS
            According to the standards of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a shot should occur at the 3-5th second.

            Well, almost like that. There is an order from the Ministry of Internal Affairs on fire training. In it training exercise # 2 - range 10 meters, time to complete the exercise 10 seconds-4 shots. With a good time, enough time, within 7 seconds. I read a lot of comments - the conclusion: there is an understanding of the problem, but where the legs do not grow completely. Here, as they say, a complex. 1. Optimization. The cuts hit precisely the people working the land. As a result, the workload on employees has increased. Accordingly, there are practically no classes. But there is not only fire training, but also tactical-special, medical, legal, etc. 2. Initial training of employees lasts 4 months. During this time, the cadet only has time to "clean up his hand", well, and hammer into the head the theory of the pistol and the "terrible" article 23, 24 of the Federal Law "On the Police". 3. Fear of the consequences of the application. A criminal case is initiated for any case of the use of weapons. The question is different - how the chip will fit and what kind of lawyer the victim will have "a very positive and well-characterized in the family" citizen. Employees of the teaching staff do not use weapons, they try not to use physical force, because our citizen is always very positive ("onizhedeti"), and the employee is "cop-to the lake ..yol". Well, about the OMON, SOBR. Here, yes .... everything is more or less, but, for example, in the Moscow OMON over the past year, of all the planned training sessions on firepower training, only (now I can be mistaken, but not much, I write from memory) about 20% and about 50% physical. But this is Moscow with its parades, marches, championships ...
        3. Terrible ensign
          Terrible ensign 10 June 2015 10: 23
          +3
          Weapons are worn as prescribed by the order on the preservation of weapons and instructions on the HPS.
          With a good (not even excellent ...) level of employee training, the pistol is removed from the PM holster, put into combat position and ready to fire in 0,6 - 0,7 seconds.
          So the question is rather about the preparedness of the employee, the methods and techniques for conducting briefings when entering the service. At one time (when he was serving), the daily outreach outfit spent 20-30 minutes before the divorce to work out acute situations of detention. In addition, the theoretical readiness of police officers according to the rules for the use of weapons was constantly checked. Although maybe I just had a good department, leadership and unit ... I personally used weapons to kill 5 times in 14 years of service. The prosecutor's office recognized all cases as lawful (2-200; 3-300). How many cases of using weapons I don’t even count.
          1. brn521
            brn521 10 June 2015 11: 44
            +2
            Quote: Scary ensign
            With a good (not even excellent ...) level of employee training, the pistol is removed from the PM holster, put into combat position and ready to fire in 0,6 - 0,7 seconds.

            This is nonsense. Unnatural skills specific to a shooting gallery. In case of emergency, they will be completely erased from the brain by a wave of adrenaline. Opening fire to kill an ordinary policeman is an emergency. This means that cotton legs, shaking hands, circles in front of the eyes and pages of all the instructions dissolved in the fog are attached. Under such situations, it is necessary to train the police. And in these situations, PM with a weak cartridge, small ammunition, a fuse, no cartridge in the chamber and a holster fastened tightly - this is the idiocy of pure water. I don’t know what it’s designed for. Apparently, the silver-legged draftees will serve in the police, constantly striving to shoot their own legs. Or the fact that the police will graze rabbits as their main area of ​​activity.
            1. Terrible ensign
              Terrible ensign 10 June 2015 12: 22
              +2
              Quote: brn521
              Under such situations, it is necessary to train the police.

              It was under such situations that he trained himself and trained his subordinates.
              Quote: brn521
              And in these situations, PM with a weak cartridge, small ammunition, a fuse, no cartridge in the chamber and a holster fastened tightly - this is the idiocy of pure water.

              There was a PM, then a PMM ... In addition, each GZ had a submachine gun, now a submachine gun. Again, about the skill of handling weapons - whoever prepared for what had a corresponding result based on the situation. As for small ammunition, a militiaman or policeman is not a special forces loaded with ammunition in a raid on the enemy's rear. There is a good saying about SOK (short-term fire contacts): "If five is not enough, fifty is not enough."
              About
              Quote: brn521
              cotton legs, shaking hands, circles in front of the eyes and pages of all instructions dissolved in the fog.

              Yes, for the first time, in 1992 it was, especially when you consider that before using the weapon, you still had to run about 3,5-4 km along the streets of your native city for the villain. Then I thought about how to avoid playing a guessing game with the law and my condition at a crucial moment. So again we come to the fact that everything is decided by self-control, skill and then experience.
              1. brn521
                brn521 10 June 2015 14: 06
                +2
                Quote: Scary ensign
                It was under such situations that he trained himself and trained his subordinates.

                This is still an adaptation to the constraints. You can get used to flintlock pistols if necessary. But this does not negate the issue of excessive or unjustified restrictions.
                Quote: Scary ensign
                In addition, each GZ had a machine gun, now a submachine gun.

                The dog was forgotten. Excellent help to patrols, and GZ will not hurt to have in reserve.
                Quote: Scary ensign
                Yes, the first time, in 1992 it was, especially when you consider that before using the weapon, you still had to run about 3,5-4 km behind the villain along the streets of your native city

                The problem is that once a gun is issued, it is assumed that this first time will happen regularly and within. If you act as I was taught, then I can easily give out a cracker instead of a gun. The maximum that I would decide on is a shot in the air. Even if it were required to suppress or protect. Although about 15 years have passed since then, maybe something has already changed. At that time, by the way, there were not enough cartridges either.
                Quote: Scary ensign
                So again we come to the fact that everything is decided by self-control, skill and then experience.

                But then again, practice is everything. So you need to focus on it. There are people who really have to use weapons. If you look at how they wear it, in what, how to use it, it’s as if clearly not what we have.
            2. taram taramych
              taram taramych 10 June 2015 20: 56
              -1
              Quote: brn521
              cotton legs, shaking hands, circles in front of the eyes

              With such data, not to serve in the police but in the cellar, take a tan!
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 10 June 2015 16: 01
            0
            Quote: Scary ensign
            Weapons are worn as prescribed by the order on the preservation of weapons and instructions on the HPS.

            And when the gun is at hand - better!
          3. Hell's Angel
            Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 18: 55
            +3
            In 0,6 - 0,7 seconds ?! This is at the level of the best world-class practical shooting shooters! Even if there are problems with fire preparation, then somewhere it should be no more than 1,5 seconds.
            And this is an instructor's standard in practical shooting! And this is with the use of a "sports" holster and a pistol several times higher than the PM both in performance characteristics and in convenience.
            Strong!!!
            Then you can send any PPSnik at least to the championship of Russia in practical shooting in the pistol class. The prizes will be guaranteed!
            1. Brutal_truth
              Brutal_truth 12 June 2015 15: 25
              0
              Quote: Hell Angel
              And this is the instructor's standard in practical shooting!

              Apparently, you are familiar with such standards noddingly. So for the category "One Shot" this time is no more than 1,5 seconds. for the instructor, not for the problem shooters when shooting from the PM. For military instructors, this is less than 1 second, in troops, not IPSC. Looks like in this thread you are virtually ...
              1. Hell's Angel
                Hell's Angel 13 June 2015 15: 39
                0
                Go to the federation website where everything is painted.
                1. Brutal_truth
                  Brutal_truth 14 June 2015 10: 40
                  0
                  Quote: Hell Angel
                  Go to the federation website where everything is painted.

                  No need to nod to the IPSC website. Because, as before, I know who and what is losing there. And the fact that the instructors are divided into sports and military. The question is whether a person is ready to morally use weapons against the enemy! As practice proves that the pros from shooting in critical situations get the bullet first, regardless of the title and the number of cartridges burned. And professionals sniffing gunpowder usually walk in the middle peasants, the experience in using weapons is painfully different.
                  1. Brutal_truth
                    Brutal_truth 14 June 2015 12: 07
                    0
                    Like that ...

                    How many do not laugh at the Yankees, and they have smart thoughts. Weapons should be used at the right time and with the right skill. For most of us living in Russia, for the most part, it is not available. Korotkostvol plebs prohibited ...
        4. Brutal_truth
          Brutal_truth 12 June 2015 15: 17
          0
          Quote: Hell Angel
          Have you noticed how the cops carry weapons?

          Have you turned it? 70% of policemen and the like take their weapons out of their holsters at most once in their life. Such services practically do not use trunks. How nafig preparation for super shooting. And the example is not adequate, since even a person with a knife at the level of punks may well send such "professionals" to a conversation with the Apostle Peter, with two movements of the blade. They just aren't even ready for it.
  5. apro
    apro 10 June 2015 06: 03
    +9
    It’s somehow not appropriate to say that there is a lack of preparation, because during the war the main part of the patrol service was young girls and there were enough frostbitten people, but they knew that the police would shoot to kill and the prosecutors would take the side of the law. The disarming of law enforcement officers was deliberate in order to discredit power and weakening the state.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 10 June 2015 18: 05
      -1
      Quote: apro
      during the war, the main part of the patrol service were young girls and there were enough frostbitten


      And before World War II there was still 1918, a civil war, the devastation of the 20s.
      Then, young men, often with primary education, served on a vast territory in the anti-gang departments. They had neither transport, nor sensible communications, and indeed none of what exists today. And they did not teach sambo either.
      And they opposed armed and well-organized gangs. Those bandits, in comparison with the current, were not even a couple. Many of them, with weapons treated like everyday objects. Many of the bandits of the time had real combat experience, the 1st World War and the Civil War. In addition, many officers of the tsarist army also stood on a crooked path.
      And in the Ugro departments and in the fight against banditry, the numbers were small.
      The same thing happened after the Second World War. Mass rampant gangsterism and other crime.
      And nothing, they did their work. As a result, law and order were ensured in the country at the proper level.
  6. EvgNik
    EvgNik 10 June 2015 06: 10
    +6
    The topic is difficult and a lot of questions on it. I see the militia in the city only on holidays (in cordon) and near shops (the guard is drunk). Sometimes (judging by the reports in the newspaper) even crimes are uncovered. Previously, the city lived twice as many as the population and everyone knew all the precincts, now they have crammed two buildings, it’s entirely majors, lieutenant colonels and we don’t know anyone. Some are workers on the invisible front. GAI officers are not to be seen (I'm old-fashioned), although drunken cars drive the streets. Happens and knock down. And weapons, what weapons? If it was issued, then at need it must be applied. But first, to clean in the ranks, to determine who you can trust this weapon, and not all in a row - if you are a cop, then you and the gun in your hands.
    1. Lukich
      Lukich 10 June 2015 07: 51
      +15
      Quote: EvgNik
      But first clean in the ranks

      Yes, they have already been cleaned so many times ....))))) Yes, here's the problem, they cleaned the honest ones, and bribe takers and extortionists bought off the purges. rephrase, and who are the cleaners?
      1. Erg
        Erg 10 June 2015 14: 08
        +3
        That's right. There are friends in the organs. If you joined the team, then you will either become the same or you will have to leave the service. Entered the post - unfasten to the top. Who does not cope (maybe honest) - out of the gate. Therefore, our main misfortune is that we guys rotted thoroughly. Both the police and the rest of the citizens. This is what I must say, at least not to lie to ourselves.
  7. Signaller
    Signaller 10 June 2015 06: 30
    +6
    Well, it’s just their life that teaches. The comrade worked in a threat. They sent for reinforcements to the traffic police (still Soviet time). When a car was stopped by a traffic police officer, a VAZ car, he directed the car at an employee, hit him and drove on at a speed further. Without thinking twice, he jumped out of the booth where the machine gun stood and fired at the car to catch up with him. The result is a hijacker killed, Gaetz with injuries in the hospital. And he?????? He has been on trial for three months. We don’t seem to give bosses, but they themselves are sitting in the bushes. The court is something like this. Rightful use — and three months of nerves — is such a free app to the service. So the employees who have heard such stories are not very keen to use weapons at all, and even more so to shoot. This is a movie-once trunk in hand and firing. Cinema, it is cinema.
  8. kuz363
    kuz363 10 June 2015 06: 35
    +2
    "After all, it is not yet a fact that he is a dangerous criminal, even if he tries to object to the police. All his actions will be studied by the investigation, and evaluated by the court." Complete nonsense! Until this happens, there will be deaths of police officers. And the example should be taken from the United States, and not from the dean of Europe. There should be unquestioning obedience to the police, in case of resistance - the use of weapons. And to bring to all citizens, and you can use weapons not necessarily by killing, but to shoot, for example, at the legs. And if a person resists with weapons, use weapons without a doubt. Of course, if in such a situation there is a child or a woman, then it may be unnecessary.
    1. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 10 June 2015 08: 49
      +4
      But what, women or children with weapons in their hands do not represent a danger to you? I agree with you — there are different situations — my opinion is that, if necessary, an employee must be ready to use weapons and special equipment without hesitation in case of emergency.
  9. SibSlavRus
    SibSlavRus 10 June 2015 06: 38
    +11
    Only the return of Soviet experience and practice can change the situation. Better, "heads of effective managers" still do not come up with. Bandits and greyhounds because they know the principles of law enforcement. The author is right - insanity grows stronger. Even under the Soviet Union, with a population of 300 million, the number of crimes was 30 times less than now in Russia with half the population. And now, in general, liberal capitalism with its mythical freedoms and tolerances. Loyal to the criminals of the Criminal Code and the installations of the courts and supervisory authorities, especially to the nationalities. In this situation, there is nothing to hope for cops at all. At best, they will investigate, not prevent.
    The power, the so-called, only cares about itself beloved, and it is precisely the cops that guard it. It is for this reason that I at one time stayed in the bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (PPS, OMON) for a short while.
    Better I myself will be responsible for the use of weapons, and not hoping for an instructed police officer.
    Where is my right to short-barreled ?! Where is the principle: "my home is my fortress", where is my right to defend myself and my loved ones ?! What can we say about risky cops.
    And from -degenerates and psychos registered, society should be cleansed without fail. And not the court, but the victim himself must determine the degree of danger, not that of behavior, but even for the threat of violence or life. In this case, the states, no matter how I like them, set everything clearly and correctly. And if we had the right of the regions to use the death penalty and permission for short-barreled weapons with which you can protect any citizen (and even the same police officer, if you can help), when bandits and degenerates know that their way of life and behavior works against them in court in any situation, then public discipline will increase at times, even politeness of communication will become the norm.
    Enough for the state nursing genetic trash - punishment should be punishment.
    And it is not the "paper" court that should determine the degree of guilt, but the people involved and the majority. And the court must be elective, like the municipal police, at least at the regional level.
  10. Hell's Angel
    Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 06: 53
    +12
    SYSTEM! This explains everything. Why was it without weapons and body armor? Why no physical. training? Why is the level of legal training low? BUT ALL WENT THROUGH A POLYGRAPH!
    Weapon. What if he loses it or applies it illegally? They will jail him, and I will be reprimanded. Better a mourning speech at the grave "dvinu" (bosses). Fire training in the ATS (no comment)
    Well him! Excess hemorrhoids. Yes, and this prosecutor. (articles on necessary defense and emergency and how our courts interpret them and the very low level of legal training)
    Physical training. And when? Where? (not everyone wants to pay their money in sports. sections). Due to physical. training is carried out only in SOBR and riot police. Credits are handed over as in a movie about cops, for a box of beer.
    And my personal observation. The main ones now are psychologists! Usually a couple of "chickens" graduated in absentia from the R&K Institute (horns and hooves). Usually relatives or mistresses of some bosses.
    PS BUT ALL WENT THROUGH A POLYGRAPH!
    1. Brutal_truth
      Brutal_truth 12 June 2015 15: 29
      0
      Quote: Hell Angel
      PS BUT EVERYONE HAS PASSED THROUGH A POLYGRAPH!

      So what? I myself am a polygraph examiner, and there are at least 70% of such subjects. Every second has a friend or acquaintance of some "Vaska-cool" from the lads. And what is the use of this?
      1. Hell's Angel
        Hell's Angel 13 June 2015 15: 48
        0
        Do you understand what I wrote about?
        Me "violet" who you are and who has "Vaska - cool" in friends. I'm talking about the professional qualities and those normative documents that regulate both this very training and the carrying and use of weapons and special equipment by police officers. An employee may be "dead" (professionally and ready to take action, in a broad sense), but the main thing is that he passed the polygraph.
        1. Brutal_truth
          Brutal_truth 14 June 2015 10: 25
          0
          Quote: angel of hell
          Me "violet" who you are and who has "Vaska - cool" in friends.

          Yes, even a gray-brown-crimson! It is not for us (not for the police) to judge the quality of the preparation of this service. For example, who are you? A yuberprofessional in shooting, or just another "specialist" in the system of training the police, army, etc.? Apparently an ordinary "specialist". This suggests that everyone should do their job and not go with advice in cases where there is simply no experience.
          Quote: Hell Angel
          I’m talking about professional qualities and those regulatory documents that govern this training as well as the carrying and use of weapons and special equipment by police officers.


          What are you about. What standards can we talk about? If for every second shooting it's like a sickle in the balls. What level of training in police schools - none! And after that, even in the training departments, too, not any, credits are taken on paper, they save ammunition. There is no culture of handling weapons. Physical training once a week according to regulatory documents, which can be learned. Any "Peps" passing the shift knocks out the feedback and what kind of training is in FIG.
          Quote: Hell Angel
          in a broad sense

          In a broad sense, how can one be a professional by shooting only 10 rounds a month and hiding from specialized activities? Or going to the police only for grandmas ... The problem is complex.
  11. kuguar7777
    kuguar7777 10 June 2015 06: 55
    0
    That's when our valiant police-police really stand as one to protect citizens, then it makes sense and revise the law on the use of weapons.
  12. D-Master
    D-Master 10 June 2015 07: 23
    +3
    "That is, operas and patrolmen are not taught not only some special tactics of street fighting, the specifics of detention, but even basic sambo techniques and the rules of aiming with a pistol. There are simply no such teachers." In fact, at least once a week, each police unit, and in such as PPS and DPS, must be held in hand-to-hand combat, which until last year was a departmental look. And now combat sambo has become departmental. The fact that classes are not conducted or are not conducted properly is the responsibility of local officials. But, these classes are in the plans and are required. As well as tests in physical education, including shooting. But how these tests were carried out, and how the training is carried out, is again a question for the local police officials.
    The problem is different - for using a weapon, a police officer will simply be "raped" with papers and explanations. The use of weapons is not encouraged because of the bureaucracy; any use of special means is fraught with the policeman himself. And it is these obstacles that should be removed.
  13. Alexander S.
    Alexander S. 10 June 2015 08: 00
    +1
    If you are afraid to use weapons to protect yourself or citizens (at least because of prosecutors or something else) ... then you have nothing to do in the police (and judging by the stories of your brother ... the police mostly go for money ... or because of lack work ... hence the fear of using weapons with subsequent analysis and reports ... naturally .. why do I need this if I came here to earn money). And the second ... well, if you don’t have preparation ... go go sign yourself in some sections ... and at least go to a simulator (or else you’ll go to the trainers ... well, you won’t look without tears ... they still meet dystrophics. .. you’ll blow it and it will fall).
    1. Bassoon
      Bassoon 10 June 2015 08: 05
      +2
      PPP also has a decent number of girls. Sometimes questions arise about their preparation. Although on the other hand, appearance can be deceiving ...
  14. Bassoon
    Bassoon 10 June 2015 08: 03
    +3
    Quote: EvgNik
    But first, to clean in the ranks, to determine who you can trust this weapon, and not all in a row - if you are a cop, then you and the gun in your hands.

    Practice shows that, first of all, they clean out those who work "on the ground". And the staff officers remain with their own.
    1. ASK505
      ASK505 10 June 2015 08: 38
      +6
      From staff everywhere rolls over. You look, for example, in the traffic police - the major accepts documents, the captain carries the papers in the classrooms, issues the old numbers ... And does this require higher education? This is the level of civilian personnel in the person of girls.
      1. Bassoon
        Bassoon 10 June 2015 09: 01
        +1
        Quote: ASK505
        the major accepts the documents, the captain wears the papers in the cabinets, he issues the old numbers ...

        What if the pieces of paper are "secret" ...
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 10 June 2015 17: 42
          +3
          Quote: Fagot
          What if the pieces of paper are "secret" ...


          Yes, at least a hundred times secret. The rank and file and sergeant will do just fine with such work. Admission to work with official documents, incl. there are secret ones.
          But it seems that the sergeant in the Ministry of Internal Affairs at the level of the Public Security Police (PPS), in the traffic police is an endangered species. Wherever you spit at least a lieutenant will get.

          And the officer's shoulder straps on the shoulders are a very good salary and other "benefits" and benefits. And all the budget money goes.

          There is no normal system of selection for leading personnel as in the Union in the militia. Then the militia lieutenant was a very good man, the lieutenant shoulder straps "you live well", then they were not given. And wherever you spit, seisas is an officer of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. In 35 years already go to lieutenant colonels, yes colonels. And no sense.
          Under the Union, rank-and-file and sergeants performed their work better than the current officers of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. There was much more order on the streets.
    2. Hell's Angel
      Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 08: 46
      +1
      Therefore, they remain. Because live according to the principle of "whatever happens." Why increase the intensity of combat training? Suddenly injuries? Fire is generally a probable emergency. Just watch shooters practice or practice shooting exercises. The authorities from what they saw "... mycardiac infarction. Here is such a scar!" can happen.
      Better once a month "three rounds of 25 meters" with two inspectors per employee.
  15. Metallurgist
    Metallurgist 10 June 2015 08: 05
    +3
    The question is not as simple as it seems at first glance.
    It is bad when the militia / police dies during execution. This is very bad.
    But it brings us back to the question: who are the judges?
    To paraphrase: not all police officers correspond to the "face of morality". And give such weapons in hand, and even with the right to use ...
    On the other hand, HOW to stop the unbelted one, let us call it not a criminal (this is determined only by the court), but the same drunk "" who begins to "bullish" and so on. The answer seems to be obvious: well, not with a barrel, but, for example, hand-to-hand combat. On the other hand, every "bullish", if he clearly knows that if something happens, he will simply be shot, he will behave much more modestly.
    In a word, the question is complicated.
    My personal opinion: to allow police officers to carry and use weapons, but taking as a basis, say, the practice of Germany, or the same USA. But who will "watch the watchmen"? There remains a strong question, to which I personally have no answer: will it “blow the roof off” from the armed, and often inadequate policemen themselves?
    And do not forget about the southern regions. There is generally a reverent attitude towards weapons.
    1. Hell's Angel
      Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 08: 21
      +1
      On the other hand, HOW to stop the unbelted one, let us call it not a criminal (this is determined only by the court), but the same drunk "" who begins to "bullish" and so on.
      If I am not mistaken in Khabarovsk, one such person was "stopped". Forever and ever. There was even a video on YouTube. And it seems that the use of weapons by the police was recognized as legitimate.

      There remains a strong question, to which I personally have no answer: will it “blow the roof off” from the armed, and often inadequate policemen themselves?
      No one is safe from this. No employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, Moscow Region, Federal Security Service, Federal Penitentiary Service. Little of
      even a civilian with a long-range rifle (legally acquired) is not immune to this either.
      Can take away from EVERYONE just in case? You look and the criminals will be targets. And how many "inadequate" drives! These, too, should be feared, suddenly "blow off the roof." Or maybe they have ...?
    2. 97110
      97110 10 June 2015 10: 54
      +5
      Quote: Metallurg
      On the other hand, HOW to stop unbelted

      The method is perfect. The outfit arrives in 40 minutes. after the call. We are many, few of them, traffic jams ... But the problem is gone. They will write the necessary papers, the bull will be called to the district policeman when he is not going round. And the corpus delicti (offense) will already be (will not be - they dispersed, ran away, in short - without them took place), it is possible to use the main special means - paper and a fountain pen - without question. Most security. I had to call the police twice (in Soviet times) and the police - 3 years ago. The police simply answered by phone that they would not come. The police arrived 40 minutes later. Why do they need some kind of weapon? They sat down at the table, drew up a protocol, they don't even need a tablet, which is on the ground. I don't want to offend the guys. They are normal, reasonable men. They have families, they WORK. Normal reaction to the created working conditions, to the level of requirements. Each of us makes a reasonable minimum for which we receive a salary. Or a monetary allowance - whichever is more pleasant. Don't hope that something will work by itself. The Minister of Internal Affairs must by personal example inspire the personnel in the person of his immediate subordinates. Those, rubbing bruised and injured places - their own. And when "on the ground" they feel, and most importantly, they see that not because of the fire near Kuevo, but ALWAYS these requirements, that something will change. But it’s necessary to work! At the very top - and work. Not to portray a stormy activity, for..ahivaya subordinates by drawing up certificates for all occasions, but striving for all the good against all the bad.
  16. Name
    Name 10 June 2015 08: 36
    +2
    You can argue for a long time, but the BASIS (beat that is not REAL) -
    23 Article. Use of firearms

    [Law of the Russian Federation "On Police"] [Chapter 5] [Article 23]
    1. A police officer has the right, personally or as part of a unit (group), to use firearms in the following cases:

    1) to protect another person or oneself from encroachment, if this encroachment is associated with violence dangerous to life or health;

    2) to suppress attempts to seize firearms, police vehicles, special and military equipment, armed with (armed) police;

    3) to free the hostages;

    4) to detain a person who was caught committing an act containing signs of a grave or especially grave crime against life, health or property, and trying to hide if it is not possible to detain this person by other means;

    5) for the detention of a person providing armed resistance, as well as a person refusing to comply with the legal requirement to surrender the weapons, ammunition, explosives, explosive devices, toxic or radioactive substances that are with him;

    6) to repel a group or armed attack on buildings, premises, structures and other objects of state and municipal bodies, public associations, organizations and citizens; ...


    But responsibility in deciding on the conscience and DECISION OF EVERYONE. soldier I HAVE THE RIGHT OF SUCH OPINION.
    1. Hell's Angel
      Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 08: 42
      +2
      And if you replace "has the right" with "must"?
    2. brn521
      brn521 10 June 2015 12: 03
      +1
      We still have a transcript and explanations went to each item on the basis of instructions and additions. Basically, about why in this case it was impossible to use weapons. On some videos there was generally a reference to some nonsense, situational ethics or something. Like, let the character push himself in the face with an unknown ending, since the character is mentally suffering and not in himself.
    3. Slavs69
      Slavs69 10 June 2015 12: 03
      0
      For clarity, you would give parts 2, 5 and 6 of this article. the only problem is the proof of these circumstances.
  17. akudr48
    akudr48 10 June 2015 09: 26
    +2
    The authorities do not trust the Russian people and will not give them the right to a short barrel.

    But in many ways this could stop the rampant crime and free proud people of French nationality from the Caucasus mountains ...
  18. Curious
    Curious 10 June 2015 09: 32
    +1
    Quote: zadorin1974
    The traffic police is trying to stop a drunken intruder — he flies around the city in a car and you can stop him only by shooting him with wheels or an engine. But opening fire requires permission from the department duty officer — who does not want to take responsibility — calls back to his superiors and so on. As a result, so far there’s a call-back, a drunk ghoul or he’ll knock someone or fly into someone (it’s good if he does without injuries).

    And if "God forbid" there are victims, then an official check begins during which they analyze why the traffic police did not use or used weapons. The duty officer will always dismiss him saying that he was not there and he did not have all the information.
  19. antikilller55
    antikilller55 10 June 2015 09: 35
    +5
    Weapons, weapons. Even for the use of means of limiting mobility in the service, it is stupid to deliver the "bull" to the regional department, and then they carry out an official check every time, insanity !!! Why then generally carry all these pribluda with you if for their use you wake up to have a pale appearance from the authorities and prosecutors. Andrei's death is certainly a tragedy, as one movie hero said, "You can't kill policemen," and partly I can understand why this happened, the young guy just came, maybe he wanted to show himself, "take" the bandyugan in one, but did not calculate his strength. I read your comments, I agree with many, categorically not with others, it feels like some are writing from a bald completely without knowing the police service. In order not to be afraid to give weapons to a police officer, you probably need to start with the most important selection of personnel and their training and not for show and reports for Moscow, but for a specific hard and dangerous job and future employees should be trained by professionals with good life experience, practices who thanks to various kinds of purges, reductions and optimizations, there are fewer and fewer in the ranks of the police.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 10 June 2015 17: 09
      0
      Quote: antikilller55
      future employees should be trained by professionals with good life experience, practices which, thanks to various kinds of cleaning, reductions and optimizations in the ranks of the police, are becoming less and less.


      Yes Yes. Gold words. Here, some guys secretly whispered to me that another reduction was being prepared and 450 people were ordered to be reduced in the region.
      I suppose that it’s all differently there will be no uncles with two gaps on uniform and large stars on them, or without gaps, but with very large stars.
      And ordinary hard workers like PPSnikov, operas, precinct, etc.
  20. Curious
    Curious 10 June 2015 09: 36
    +2
    Or maybe it's worth "simplifying" the use of weapons? Several dozen especially "greyhounds" will be killed around the country, these cases will be covered in detail in the media, and many will think about whether to object or resist an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
  21. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 10 June 2015 10: 46
    +1
    I worked in the PSB for 12 years, and so I shot 6 rounds once a year. 3 trial 3 credits.
  22. Rostislav
    Rostislav 10 June 2015 10: 48
    +1
    It would be interesting to know the statistics in England - how many attacked the police and how many died?
    It is necessary to search for something in between our "non-resistance" and amerovsky "I shoot without warning." As always, the most important parameter is a sense of proportion.
    1. brn521
      brn521 10 June 2015 12: 24
      +1
      This is not something in between, but depends on the population. In the States, there are indeed quite a few lunatics who are ready to cut out a police group with an ordinary table knife hidden in their sleeves, regardless of the consequences. So all the suspicious muzzle on the floor. No discounts given that the freak does not have a forehead on that. If the muzzle does not want to the floor or is slow, then something is up to. There are certainly relatively prosperous territories where everyone knows each other, urbanization and human labor are minimal. But even there, a policeman can behave rather harshly against someone who is clearly not local.
    2. thinker
      thinker 11 June 2015 00: 03
      0
      It is curious that since 1900 the entire British police killed 52 people.

      In the UK, the very strict Law on weapons and firearms for criminals is not widely circulated, most of the police serve without weaponsbeing equipped only with special equipment: gas, baton, handcuffs.
  23. Bully
    Bully 10 June 2015 10: 57
    +2
    The case with Andrey Bannov is rather murky. Judging by the details that I read in hot pursuit, it was like this. The patrol car chased the Gazelle and, when it began to catch up, crashed into it. There was a senior squad in the patrol car, but the door jammed on his side as a result of the impact and he could not quickly jump out and take part in the pursuit. The door from Andrey's side was not damaged, and he was able to quickly get out of the car, although the elder tried to hold him back. I think the guy jerked on adrenaline, because he did not react to the elder. And then the pursuit of the criminal. The elder still got out of the car, but was late - he found the guy already wounded in the stomach and eyes (apparently, the Caucasian waved his blade from the side in the face), he was bleeding and the ambulance did not wait any longer. Why he did not use his service weapon, it is not clear, maybe he really didn’t realize in a fever - there is no information. HZ, for me it's better to fill up a freak, and then let them figure it out - it wouldn't be worse than it is anyway. It seems that there is also a purely psychological barrier that not all employees can overcome - to shoot at a living person, therefore they try to come up with various excuses. And for good shooting should be on instinct, in addition to consciousness, only for this you need to train according to the method of special forces. But this is from the realm of fantasy. This is a vicious circle.
    1. Metallurgist
      Metallurgist 10 June 2015 11: 10
      +3
      Interestingly, am I the only one here, without brakes, who is ready to shoot at the attacker (s) or the hiding criminal, or is there still someone else?
      It is completely incomprehensible by what psychological criteria then they take to the police?
      After all, if you discard any hypocrisy - a soldier is a professional killer in the service of the state and executing his commands.
      About the same thing in the police - these are professional crime fighters.
      Do not laugh at the word "professional" - in fact, it should be so, it will be so sooner or later.
      Most offensively, laws on the police and the use of weapons will be written in blood. The blood of those who stood in the way of the bandyugan.
      But on the expense of preparation, I completely agree with you. It’s necessary to cook. And he must shoot on reflexes.
      1. Slavs69
        Slavs69 10 June 2015 12: 17
        +1
        Quote: Metallurg
        or a hiding criminal,

        If YOU shoot a runaway criminal in the back, and he is not a criminal yet, but a suspect, then problems with prosecutors are provided. And not the fact that you will disperse peacefully.
        But such a professional, as you describe, is primarily cut off by psychologists (they are now running the show).
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 10 June 2015 16: 58
          0
          Quote: Slavs69
          But such a professional, as you describe, is primarily cut off by psychologists (they are now running the show).


          And it causes a certain interest. In the sense, who put them there and why did they give such an indication? For what purpose? For the police to turn into an incompetent bunch of inert degenerates? Which they can’t provide not only with law and order, who are not even able to protect themselves?
    2. Walking
      Walking 10 June 2015 11: 25
      +1
      Quote: Bully
      And for good shooting should be on instinct, in addition to consciousness,


      To achieve this, you need to shoot at least every other day and a lot and not 2-3 times a year for 3 rounds.
    3. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 10 June 2015 17: 04
      0
      Quote: Bully
      The door from Andrei’s side was not damaged, and he was able to quickly get out of the car, although the elder tried to keep it.


      You must be able to work in pairs. He wouldn’t get far. Moreover, he too could be injured. I would listen to the older one, would be alive. First of all, he should help the commander from the car to get out in this situation. Together, acting on detention is more convenient (if the partner is sensible) than alone.
  24. vladimirw
    vladimirw 10 June 2015 12: 30
    +2
    . The second is paradoxical: police officers (adults, peasants wise in life and combat experience) are simply afraid to use weapons - they are tortured by prosecutorial and other checks.
    and it’s true - a bunch of prosecutors, most of whom the golden boys and girls themselves do not do anything, but stand guard of the law that they dig up a copy of the police officers. By the way, the procurator herself must conduct inspections and initiate cases of corruption, idleness of municipalities, etc. Are there any such examples? I did not hear.
  25. brn521
    brn521 10 June 2015 12: 33
    +1
    I don’t know, maybe revolvers can improve the situation a little. In the case of fully combat weapons, there is a hard choice to use to defeat or not to use. In a revolver, if desired or unsure of the situation, you can rewind the drum to a cartridge with a plastic bullet, or even a gas one.
  26. Marik
    Marik 10 June 2015 14: 34
    +3
    Recall that in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Alexander Makarov, head of the Main Directorate of Internal Security of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, said that police have recently been targeted more often than in the nineties: “In nine months of 2012, 9519 attacks occurred, more than 50 employees died. This is comparable with a full-time police station serving a community in which approximately 50 thousands of residents are registered. "

    I read the komenty almost everyone is wailing like dancers, "the pants are tight, then I .. interfere", "" it's not all of us who are to blame. "Tanks ask," grads ", special equipment, like hostesses.
    And no one wondered WHY this is happening?
    I will not state all the reasons, but the essence.
    Everyone knows that before, and by inertia, even in the 90s, "cops" were respected and feared. Few people got away from punishment, even rowing boys (took a moped to ride), but now !?
    You’ll sell your mother for money, you’ve already sold your Motherland, you have framed your own people.
    The ending in that story is probably like this. An Azerbaijani "looking" in Moscow invited the main "cop" to dine with his dad, mom, brother, sister and just a beautiful girl, swear in eternal love, gave money, said to hush up the case and sent the slut back home, spitting after.
    Guys will soon put you on the streets with cancer (sorry you can’t give birth, otherwise you would solve the problems of demography at the same time), wake up !!!
    "With" cops "it's bad and without them it's even worse"
    In relation to the "cops" "Speak, speak, but don't give free rein to your hands"
    You may not be loved, but to beat and even more so to kill is a taboo.
  27. Free wind
    Free wind 10 June 2015 14: 49
    0
    Most policemen in Russia die in road accidents, in most cases, in 80%, they themselves are to blame. at the hands of criminals, approximately 70 police officers died last year, and about 250 in traffic accidents. In America this year, more than 60 police officers have already died at the hands of criminals.
    1. taram taramych
      taram taramych 10 June 2015 21: 14
      0
      A case, somewhere in six months, after certification, a traffic police officer draws up a protocol in the afternoon, for one person, and manages, at a quarter of an hour, until midnight, drunk, in an official car, to get under an oil tanker, in a neighboring area! Praise the Lord God, there were no sacrifices. The most interesting thing started a few days later. The employee was fired retroactively, the case was put on the brakes, but then the protocol came out. At the top, the question arose of how the dismissed employee managed to issue the paperwork. The final. BS went to work in encashment "and silence" ...
  28. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 10 June 2015 15: 12
    0
    In fact, one policeman dies in Russia every day; several more are injured and injured. In most cases, this occurs when detaining criminals and attacking employees to take possession of weapons.

    That's it. That means only one thing. Our police officers are not able to correctly use weapons in those cases when it is really necessary. This is sad. This frees the hands of criminals.
    As can be seen from such situations, that at present the criminal element is simply not afraid of the police, because I am well aware of what general (unspoken) instructions of the leadership exist in the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (and other power departments) regarding any use of service weapons by the employees of these departments.
    Often, employees simply do not dare to launch it, where necessary. And this despite the whole complex of training that they went through during training.
    What are the reasons for such indecisive actions among law enforcement officials, the police in particular?
    1. Fear of consequences, or consideration of their actions by investigating authorities with a biased and biased approach by the investigation, where this very criminal element can be recognized as the injured party.
    And the police officer himself will be accused of abuse of authority, etc., etc.

    2.According to the use of weapons, the police officer will need to write a bunch of explanations and reports, on the basis of which he used the weapons entrusted to him. Many of the employees do not want to face this later, because This procedure is boring, to say the least. In addition to reporting to the management for the very fact of using weapons, it is also necessary to report for the spent amount of ammunition, etc.

    3. Pressure from the part of the leading officials to whom this employee is subordinate for the period of working time, or to whom he is constantly subordinate. Some "especially gifted" leaders believe that the employee is given a weapon only for "instilling fear" or as a service accessory, forgetting why the police have weapons at all. In addition, when there are facts of use by a subordinate employee in the jurisdictional territory, some of these "especially gifted" think not about how to delve into and understand the situation properly, but worry about their own career, shoulder straps, etc.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 10 June 2015 15: 50
      0
      Next:

      4. Poor police training in terms of owning their weapons.
      Often, all offsets on this topic are given formally. There is probably no competent training of ordinary police officers in pistol shooting techniques so that he knows how to use it in densely populated residential areas of modern cities. As well as they often do not have solid skills in this (all kinds of SOBR and OMON are not counted here, we are talking about PPS, DPS, PSB, district inspectors and others).

      5. The weapon itself. The PM pistol, which in today's reality is the main weapon of the police, has long ceased to satisfy modern requirements for its use in densely populated areas and modern cities. In such an important parameter as the accuracy of the battle in the first place. Aim fire from PM lead farther than 5-10 meters, in short-term contact it is very difficult for a shooter with primary and secondary skills. The devil lies in the very design of the PM pistol. Having a very short barrel and a powerful recoil momentum, it is very difficult to keep this pistol on the line of aim in firing, in such dynamically developing and fleeting contacts, which are the current operations to detain a criminal element. In today's reality, only a highly skilled shooter can precisely fire from it when moving. Which has a seriously developed skill and considerable practical experience in handling PM.

      I will explain in more detail. The priority for the police officer is not to kill the detainee on the spot from the first shot, but to prevent him from hiding, or to neutralize the threat to his life when attacking him. And for these tasks, the gun must have a high accuracy of the battle. To be able to fire on the limbs, or other separate parts of the body. And also in order to minimize the possibility of unauthorized people or objects from the fire of an employee. And so that even a shooter with an initial or secondary qualification could use it effectively, if necessary.
      PM today does not meet these requirements.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 10 June 2015 16: 25
        0
        In addition, today a lot of employees are girls or women.
        And work with PM on detention is unlikely for many of them.
        Nobody wants outsiders to suffer from fire when using a weapon?

        As for the use of the gun in real situations. I propose to see this:



        21 feet = approx. 6,5 meters is the minimum safe distance at which weapons can be removed.
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 10 June 2015 16: 39
          0
          Next:

          6. Excessive self-confidence of some employees (especially newcomers) like: "Yes, I served in the Airborne Forces and I can tear at least a dozen people with my bare hands."
          First, criminals are also far from being fools, among them there are many who are really dangerous. Many of them may have more than one theft / robbery / robbery in their "biography", as well as more than one murder. These are often quite cunning, vile and cunning people in the truest sense of these words. You see a person for the first time and you cannot know what he can be capable of.

          7. Unfit for service of this kind, due to moral, psychological, personal and other qualities. It’s not a secret for anyone that in our country there are those in the power structures.
          And nothing, sometimes you look at such people and you don’t believe your eyes.
      2. Hell's Angel
        Hell's Angel 10 June 2015 19: 01
        0
        Aim fire from PM lead farther than 5-10 meters, in short-term contact it is very difficult for a shooter with primary and secondary skills.
        The main pistol contact distance is 3 - 7 meters.
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 11 June 2015 23: 13
          0
          Quote: Hell Angel
          The main pistol contact distance is 3 - 7 meters.


          I wrote about the capabilities of weapons. 5-10 meters, the most optimal firing distance from the PM. Further in the movement it will be hard to shoot, you may not have time to use your gun closer at all, you simply will not have enough time to remove it from the holster and bring it to battle (not to mention to open aimed fire). Unless of course he was in your hands beforehand.
  29. Olegater
    Olegater 10 June 2015 15: 18
    +2
    The article is interesting and reading, I would like to highlight several points: 1. "The first, it is the most banal and obvious: poor preparation." It takes time and a normal instructor to carry out combat techniques - where to get them !!!!!. Yes, now they appoint a time to visit the gym and prepare as much as you want. Bravo. And the cane system, how to deal with it - if the police officer does not make an approved crime plan or the protocols, he will be severely punished - they will deprive me of the scanty bonus money, postpone the vacation (winter), you will not get a rank, etc. Or let's talk about operatives who are spinning like squirrels in a wheel. Do several cases at the same time and control the situation from and to, because apart from them, he does not know the essence of the matter. 2. “The second is paradoxical: the police (adults, men, wise with life and combat experience) are simply afraid to use weapons - they will torture you with prosecutorial and other checks. And it's not a fact that they will be acquitted, you can fly out of service, or even sit down. Better to try to do without shooting somehow - maybe it will work out. " It turns out that the prosecutor's and judicial system is on the side of an obvious criminal with a weapon. And he is on a drum, and he will not shoot into the air, but to kill. And who wants to risk their lives, knowing that when they are detained, they will be right, but not for long. And while in the prosecutor's office b ... and and p ... .y, lured by the crime, nothing bright threatens us - everyone will blame the policeman. 3. “But with ordinary guards, district and operatives, everything is still much worse. They weren't cooked at all. If you do not take seriously the "course of a young soldier" that every new recruit to the police takes in the Professional Training Center of the territorial body of internal affairs, where he is going to serve. And from time to time they are satisfied with the aptitude test, the so-called inspection check. The police openly admit that this is a routine formality. " EXACTLY.
  30. Olegater
    Olegater 10 June 2015 15: 19
    +1
    4. The author is one hundred percent right in this: “In principle, on paper, everything looks correct and even beautiful. The Police Law states that “a police officer is required to undergo special training, as well as periodic testing for professional fitness to act in conditions involving the use of physical force, special means and firearms”. But here's the paradox - in the majority of territorial internal affairs bodies there is no organization of combat and service training of employees. Moreover, the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs has practically no full-time combat and physical training instructors. As a rule, the functions of organizing and conducting office work are assigned to regular employees. (maybe not on personnel, but all the same, there is absolutely no training on how to behave in critical situations) Is it necessary to explain that many personnel officers are able to conduct serious practical training only as an option? In the best case, they gather personnel to read orders and even carry out firing (a separate track). The policeman put three or four bullets a month on the target - depending on the number of the planned exercise from the Makarov pistol - almost a sniper. That is, operas and patrolmen are not taught not only some special tactics of street fighting, the specifics of detention, but even basic sambo techniques and the rules of aiming with a pistol. There are simply no such teachers. " - BRAVO. And I wonder where the three sighting and three credits shooting norms came from. ... Do we have enough cartridges? And moreover, the shooting is carried out from someone else's weapon, it is not known how it is targeted where to shoot and as a result everything goes into "milk" and you blame it. To anchor yourself with that hemorrhoid. 5. "The Ministry of Internal Affairs has a regulation that describes the algorithm of actions of employees during the arrest, inspection, search and escort of people suspected of a crime." This is on paper, but in reality no one knows how it will happen.
  31. Olegater
    Olegater 10 June 2015 15: 19
    +2
    6. “Interlocutors of“ RG ”in law enforcement bodies believe that it is necessary to change the practice of bringing to responsibility for the use of weapons by the police. It is clear that there is a danger of "going too far", but the constant "syndrome of future guilt" does not contribute to the normal performance of their duties by law enforcement officers. " And this is not only in changing the legislation, but also in laying in a future employee at the stage of study and retraining of a certain moral line through which he has no right to cross. And he must always understand where he is going and think a little what to do. And to top it off - taking into account the war in Hohland, convicts, criminals who fled from the war and specially released criminals have penetrated into the territory of Russia and continue to penetrate. And imagine that these elements did not take the path of correction, but continue to commit crimes with great zeal. It's like courage to them. And weapons for criminals from there will not be measured, and then what?
  32. Marik
    Marik 10 June 2015 17: 48
    0
    [quote = tolancop] And the captain on the employee piled up so much that in order to clear out DIRECT duties, you need to have 25 hours, or preferably 27 hours. In these conditions, you can simply forget about serious training, since they really DO NOT HAVE TIME. A couple of years ago, he was present with his comrade during the filing of an application for theft. I personally saw that by the end of the day the operas were already just having difficulty navigating in space due to overwork ... And the view was clearly tired ... There was no question of observing the norms of working time
    Tired !! How are these two scum !?
    http://lifenews.ru/news/155432
  33. trak
    trak 10 June 2015 19: 51
    0
    When I read such articles, I always get the feeling that the authors are trying to either dissolve me, or they themselves are suckers. Here is a quote from this article "... the court, as a rule, acquits the shooters ..." But why? Not disclosed. Are all American judges really villains in league with "murderers"? Or maybe everything is simpler, with a detailed trial in court, it turns out that the "victim-citizens" turn out to be either finished and arrogant fools who do not want to follow the elementary rules of dealing with the police, or just criminal scum, which is only worthy of a good bullet? And in general I refuse to understand those who care not to unduly damage any trash during detention! There is an expression; God lives in the details, and the devil hides in the details. So I think that when they do not mention all the details with trifles, then this is either a deliberate propaganda of your idea at any cost, or - the incompetence of the author.
  34. Surg
    Surg 10 June 2015 20: 40
    0
    Quote: Max_Bauder
    The question in the article should not be "not to kill a bandit at the risk of his life or kill a Russian policeman at the risk of his place and freedom?"

    and so, "What, what kind of weapon can be invented for the police to neutralize a suspect, a possible criminal?"

    There is one, effective way that will negate such a question!
    This is "to invent a bicycle", a shocker that shoots at a long distance, up to ten meters, for example. Shot - a person falls to the ground with a pillar and convulses until a cop throws handcuffs on him, and there is no need to kill or injure him, although there is one drawback, if a person is sick with a heart, he may "grunt" from the current, but this is rare.

    You can also "invent" a pistol with a strong sleeping pill on the needle, fired and he suddenly fainted, and so on, when nuclear missiles and "smart" tanks are released, such things are trifling, they just do not want to be at the top, there will be an order - researchers, biologists and engineers for any money - any whim. But, it is not profitable yet, apparently if the life of a soldier has just begun to appreciate doing "warriors", then the life of a cop is still not so valuable, unfortunately.

    PySy. And for the especially armed, who love to shoot from buildings, Thank God, there is "heavy armored artillery" in the person of SOBR, FSKN and other professional guys who know how and know how to competently "break in" stubborn, uncompromising scoundrels.


    Yes, only all kinds of shockers and pistols with tranquilizers are good in which thread Miami, where the summer is always. And in our leather jacket or sheepskin coat, the price of these inventions is worthless.
  35. Intsurfer
    Intsurfer 11 June 2015 05: 12
    0
    if you google it, you can find many examples of how in the United States armed citizens came to the aid of the police. But in our country, the authorities do not trust their own citizens and protect the rights of bandits. An example - yesterday in the news it was about how the police opened fire on the criminals and wounded one of them. The phrase, they say, the life of a detainee out of danger, somewhat surprised. Criminals should always remember that retribution awaits them. But I am afraid that only in Russia the life of a criminal is valued above the lives of citizens. And the state is on guard of their (criminals) interests and rights. Next come the rhetorical questions ...
  36. Obliterator
    Obliterator 11 June 2015 20: 21
    0
    As for the formality in the checks on the training of employees, I do not agree. This is already changing in the direction of tightening. Employees who have not complied with the standards are suspended from service, deprived of money, sent to the CPC for training and retake. And offsets from them take high leadership often come. Now this is taken very seriously. I myself am now going through the initials in the CPC in an officer platoon, and so there are no concessions on fire training and physical training. PM shooting standards, by the way, are exclusively for the time being. The firing unit is also regularly held.