Mail Age (2 part)

39
So, in the 11th century, chain mail in Europe overtook all other armor in popularity. Actually, all the others were only three, no more: armor from plates, sewn on the skin; armor from the plates in which they were connected by thin straps of leather. And there were armor, which, most likely, did not exist at all, but about which, nevertheless, scientists wrote. First of all, it is armor of rings sewn in a row on a leather base. No one saw them. But they could be worn by the knightly "poor", who had enough money for the rings, but not to pay for the chain mail assembly. Perhaps their servants did it. But this again is nothing more than speculation. How can you prove that such armor once existed? However, if we are to fantasize, it is more interesting to think first about how, and how the chain mail appeared at all, why did people think that the rings should be intertwined with each other, and they realized that this way they would have chain mail fabric suitable for protective clothing. Why do they need it at all?

The Italian historian Franco Cardini thought about this in his book “The Origins of Medieval Knighthood”, published in Russia as early as 1987. And there he put forward the following hypothesis of its occurrence. That, they say, at first, the rings were sewn on the clothes of the shamans (and they also participated in the battles and campaigns of the wild tribes in the same way as all other combat-capable men) with a magical goal, and their interweaving between them increased their magic power because “one the ring transfers its power to everyone else. ” And the more rings, the higher was the magical power of such clothing. Therefore, the rings began to be reduced in diameter, and it was here that it turned out that the arrows with bone or flint tips do not pass through such "magic" clothes! Well, as soon as they noticed it, they stopped sewing the rings, and connected them to each other and got a “magic” metallic fabric ...



That is, to search for the place where the first chain mail appeared, follows where the most ancient chain mail could be worn by the priests-shamans who participated in the battles along with the warriors. At first it was just clothes with amulet rings, then a means of protection from arrows, but the “magical” nature of wearing it remained and subsequently, although its origin was forgotten.

British historians believe that by 1066, the chainmail dominated the battlefields, and it lasted long enough - almost two hundred years. In any case, Claude Blair, has repeatedly stated that the “epoch of chain mail” in Europe is the period from 1066 to 1250. Someone has his own figures, but this time frame is most justified, as confirmed by many sources.

The epochs of this epoch are now arranged in the following way: they used welded rings (each ring was made of a piece of wire with ends joined by means of forge welding) and converged, whose ends overlapped each other and were joined by a rivet or a U-shaped bracket. Any chain mail with butt-butted rings, in his opinion, is either a remake or work by oriental craftsmen, although there have always been exceptions. For example, it is a find of chain mail in a burial at Sutton Hoo, although it belongs to an earlier era.

Mail Age (2 part)
"The Dream of Henry I of England" (the essence of a nightmare: Companions intend to kill the king in a dream!). Figure in the Manuscript "The Chronicles" by John Worchester, which dates from the end of the twelfth century. The soldiers were not belted chain mail (most likely they were worn like that then), and in their hands there were shields in the shape of an “inverted drop”, decorated with images that soon appeared on heraldic shields (British Library)


F. Cardini emphasized the initially magical nature of the armor of interlaced rings, however, undoubtedly, this is the case when the irrational intertwined with the rational with profit. Of course, it does not protect against ramming with a spear, a strong blow with a sword can break it, the same mace can crush a warrior's bone, even through mail, finally, it can be pierced by an arrow with a thin styloid tip. But ... for all that, it was better to have her in battle than not to have, since she undoubtedly increased her chances of survival, because she protected herself from sliding strikes with a sword, from a dagger and light arrows. The number of rings in it reached 20 thousands. The weight was 9 — 13 kg, although the heaviest chain mail from England, preserved to the present, weighs 24 kg!

For the manufacture of chain mail required wire, that is, in the aforementioned period stories its production was put "on stream" and became truly massive. It was obtained from a hot iron rod, which was dragged through a cone-shaped hole in an iron plate. The diameter of the hole with each such broach all the time decreased and, accordingly, the diameter of the wire decreased.
Then it was wound on a rod ("motator") a turn to a turn, as a spring, and on it was also cut. Thus, the rings were the same size. Then it was inserted into a steel bar with a cone-shaped hole, and it was pressed from above with a special stamp. From this ring diminished in diameter, and their ends went one over the other. To connect them tightly, the rings were laid in a “flattener” - where their ends were flattened out with hammer blows. Now they were making holes with a powerful lever “piercer”, because it would be technically very difficult to drill them. Then every second ring could be heated on fire, with rivets being inserted into the holes, and chaining it all together. The remaining rings were riveted already during the assembly process “into the cold”. However, the earliest chain armor had all the rings joined on rivets directly during assembly.


Tools for the manufacture of chain mail according to British historians: 1 - “Motator”, samples of rings and weaving, 2 - “splicing”, 3 - “flattener”, 4 - “puncturer”, 5b - ready-made strips, 5б - connection of two strips


The connection of one ring with four neighbors was considered the simplest, and was the most common. Double chainmail is a combination of one or two rings with eight rings at once, that is, their number almost doubled. But she was hard, though very reliable. In the East, there were other ways of weaving, for example, "1 + 6". And in Japan, the rings were not riveted, but were connected according to the principle of our rings on key rings for keys, that is, they were wound up one after the other, and therefore they had not one coil, but two, two and a half! In terms of weight and consumption of metal, such a chain mail was only slightly heavier than riveted, but the manufacturability of the assembly increased significantly. And it was much easier to fix such a mail.

A sample of the chain mail 1237 of the year, found on the territory of the Zolotaryov settlement on the territory of Russia in the Penza region, where, most likely, in the autumn of the same year, a fierce battle of local residents with the troops of Batu Khan, marching to Russia, reached us. So, we managed to find out that each ring of this chain mail was, firstly, a little flattened, and, secondly, on its flat side there was a semicircular “stiffener”. This mail was restored by one of the Penza craftsmen, Andrey Davydov, and is a real masterpiece of the weaponry of that far-off era. After all, the level of technology of that time was significantly lower than the modern one, and the equipment needed to make such chain mail, which today can easily be made on various machines, was then entirely done by hand.


Mail made by A. Davydov from the fragments found at the Zolotarev settlement: external diameter - 12,5 mm, internal - 8,5 mm, thickness of rings - 1,2 mm. All she took 23300 rings. Weight 9,6 kg. All rings are connected by riveting.


From here you can make a number of interesting conclusions. First: the master gunsmith could have either one set of tools for making rings, or two or three sets for making rings of different diameters. But no more, since their value, undoubtedly, should have been very high, since each such set opened the way to prosperity for a person. And from this follows the second conclusion that all the chain mail of that time had about one ring size, or again two or three sizes, but no more. Large rings could not be used, because they gave not too good protection from arrows, while chain mail from too tiny rings also did not particularly protect against anything. That is, this armor in the era of chain mail was sufficiently unified.

Moreover, the number of armor from the rings was simply unique, which, again, was shown by the work of re-instructors. For example, the same Andrei Davydov made baydan (a kind of chain mail with flat rings) “of the Iranian work of the times of Shah Abbas I, on each of the riveted rings of which the names of Allah, the Prophet Mohammed, his wife and children are inscribed. So, according to him, while working on modern equipment, he could not make more 20-30 rings per day and ... how many rings then did the master of that time and for whom did he make such a laborious (and expensive !!!) product.

And here it is important, since we are talking about prices, to notice that already in 1080, X-NUMX su was paid for mail armor in France or gober: twice and even five times more than for a horse. And a warhorse was five times as expensive as a bull, and in the thirteenth century a horse stallion was seven times more expensive than a simple road horse. In 100, becoming a knight in England was very “easy.” It was required to have chain mail, a helmet and a shield, as well as a spear and a sword. A simple soldier was required to have a light-weight chain mail (gobergeon - that is, chain mail with sleeves to the elbow), a simple iron helmet and a spear. The arming of the city militia, who had a quilted caftan, an iron helmet and a spear, was quite simple.

Judging from the illustrations from the 1125-1150 manuscript. on which St. Edmund defeats the Danes, we can conclude that the knightly equipment for the time that has passed since 1066, has changed only in the details! For example, helmets began to be forged from a whole sheet of metal, and their top was bent slightly forward; sleeves are wrist-length; on the head of the knights appeared chain hoods (and the helmet itself, respectively, became more voluminous), and these are all the innovations that the artist was able to notice! Not your mail stockings, not even some horse armor - nothing!

And it turns out that progress in armament seems to have been, but it was going very, very slowly. But here much depended on fashion and on the knight’s wallet. For example, there were historians who studied the drawings of the Winchester Bible (1165-1170) and noticed that although the length of the armor remained the same as in 1066, the knight's figure changed visually very much. Why? Yes, because there was a fashion to let out from under them long caftans to the ankles, and even bright colors!

According to the English historian C. Blair, the most surprising thing, however, is not this, but the fact that he did not find at one time sources in which it would be indicated that the knights wore some kind of quilted dress under the coat of armor, although there is no -no rigidity is obvious to her. And, nevertheless, up to the end of the 13th century, the only quilted element of a knight's clothing was a cap on his head! In the famous manuscript of this period, the Bible of Macieus, there are many images of chain mail that they put on and take off, and in all cases the only clothes under it are a colored shirt with sleeves to the wrist. It remains only to assume that some kind of lining could be on the mail itself, only to prove this assumption today is almost impossible.

Since 1150, knights of kalechnuyu cloth, called hosen in England, have come into common use of knighthood. They were fastened to the belt, and put on under a chainmail shirt. Some were knee-length, while others could reach mid-thigh. Their earlier form is a kolkuzhnaya band, which went along the leg in front and behind, which had ties. Later form - real chain stockings lined with fabric. But protective quilted clothing, worn with chain mail, and without it at this time there were three types at once. These are camisole, gambeson and aketone, although the ways in which they differed are extremely difficult to answer today.


The Praying Crusader is a miniature from the Winchester Psalter. Second quarter of the 13th century It is shown in a typical for its time protective armament: a chain haberge with a hood and original routes on the front part of the leg from metal disks on rivets. It is possible that the cross on the shoulder has a rigid base under it, well, let's say the shoulder strap of a leather cuirass, which is covered by surco (British Library)


Perhaps, these terms were already used arbitrarily and in meaning they were interchangeable. In general, British historians believe that the knight now looked much brighter and more colorful, but the color of the metal in his figure still prevailed. Under his metal clothes, the knight at that time wore a bre - linen trousers up to his knees, and a long shirt, also up to his knees, as much as possible silk or, at least, linen. On the legs wore stockings of fabric, on top of which the chain armor's knives were tensioned on the lining. Over the shirt a kaftan of fine cotton fabric and a hambezon made of leather or coarse linen was worn. The head was necessarily covered with a quilted cap, since the mail hood itself was never worn on its head.
At the end of the twelfth century, most likely as a result of the influence of campaigns to the East, the chain mail was supplemented with a hood, and sleeves with gloves, well, and the stockings-shoss began to be worn everywhere. At first, for obvious reasons, the sleeves of chain mail did not reach the brush. Warriors wore leather mittens or gloves, but when they had long sleeves at their armor, ending with chain mail mittens leather hemmed, they were abandoned. In the middle of the palm, each such mitten had a cut, which allowed at any moment to free their hands, which, of course, was a very convenient invention. Somewhere after 1250, there were also chain mail gloves with separate fingers, however, the knights did not refuse the earlier version, since the version with separate fingers was more expensive. Such an outfit became the standard knightly vestment. This is evidenced by the relief 1210 of the year with the figure of a knight from the church of St.. Justin is in Pydna, where his entire body is covered with chain mail from head to toe, and the helmet has a face mask with holes for breathing and for the eyes, so that the person on it looks like a metal statue.


Abimelech kills Gaala. Queen Mary Psalter. 1310 — 1320 (British Library)


Then came the so-called surco, or cotta. She looked like long-sleeved clothing with cuts in the front and back and long sleeves, which she, however, gradually lost. The functional significance of such clothing seems to be obvious - protection from the sun's rays. But many historians consider its appearance not so much the result of acquaintance with Eastern culture (where Muslim warriors wore armor covered with cloth) as fashion and want to stand out among other things with the quality of the fabric and their wealth. Surcue is believed to have served as a protection against the weather, and they refer to the popular knightly poem "Confession of King Arthur":

Clothes green
So that the armor is clean
The vagaries of rain are not terrible.

It is doubtful that such clothes could effectively protect against rain, because this is not a raincoat mac! There is another theory that it was a convenient way to show the heraldic signs of the owner of this surco. Unfortunately, this is not so easy to prove, since, although the developed heraldic system and the fashion for nalatnaya clothes appeared about the same time, it is well known that images of heraldic signs were not always met on them. In the same way, a soroko or cotta was not always sewn from fabrics of heraldic flowers from the coat of arms of a knight.


The east armor of Gazakhand (a), described by Osama ibn Munkyz and belonging to him: the first layer is a linen lining, oriental chainmail is woven from small rings, cotton quilted lining, “Frankish mail” from large rings and a patterned fabric on top. Button-fastener armor (b). Fig. A. Shepsa


It can be assumed that the fashion for them arose under the influence of the church, since the warrior in the mail looked very "anatomical", which made it inappropriate to walk in it over time. But a white surco from an ordinary canvas with the same crosses sewn onto it, gave the knight and protection from the sun, and immediately showed everyone who was in front of him. At first it was so long that it almost reached the toe. But this prevented the knights from going up the stairs and getting into the saddle. Therefore, its length was soon reduced, so that the classic surcoat was only a little to go behind the knees of a warrior.

In the XIII century, surcoe became especially popular, but there was still no common point of view with what exactly fashion was associated with walking in armor, covering them with clothes, among English-speaking historians. True, in English, the words “coat of arms” and “chain mail” begin with the same word “koat”. In the first case, “Coat of Arms” is “clothing for weapons", In the second - it is" koat of mail "-" clothes of chain mail. " That is, the heraldic meaning of this term seems to be obvious and does not cause doubts, although medieval images show us that images of the coat of arms of a knight on a suko are not always applied, which can be clearly seen in the miniatures of the famous Manesky Code or the Great Heidelberg Manuscript.


Hartmann von Aue. A miniature from the “Codex Codex”, 1305 - 1340 It is considered a classic depiction of a knight of that time. In fact, however, more often it happened that the horse’s blanket was of one color, surco — another, and the coat of arms on the shield had nothing to do with their colors and drawings! And, by the way, the same “Codex Codex” confirms this (University Heidelberg Library)


The earliest depiction of Surcoil is the figure of Valeran de Bellomonte, Count Mellan and Count Worcester on his seal, dated 1150 year. The dress itself looks very unusual - his sleeves are up to his wrists. Such a cut appeared again only in the second half of the XIII century, and until the second half of the XVI century it was not often met. Up to the hips, it fits snugly to the body, then diverges in the form of a wide skirt to the ankles, and has a slit for riding comfort. They are in the Winchester Bible, and on the Great Seal of King John (brother Richard the Lionheart), which date back to about 1199 a year.

Before 1210, surcoe's images were rarely met, but then he was apparently recognized, and it became massive. Until 1320, he had the appearance of a sleeveless robe with large armholes and a skirt with a slit that reached the middle of the calf, but the length was quite ordinary and to the ankles and to the knees. From 1220, sleeves to elbows appear, although there are very few images of such surcoats.


Roger de Trampington. The outward appearance was reconstructed by A. Sheps by effty from the Trampington church in Cambridgeshire (d. Approx. 1326)


The historian E. Oakeshott does not use this term, but calls this dress cotta, indicating that it was not included in general use until the 1210 year, although some examples of this attire appeared on knights before the end of the 12th century. He also believes that the exact purpose of her is unknown, they say, it was a funny “trifle”, a cheerful and colorful outfit that turned the outwardly figure of a sullen and stern knight in a dark brown-gray coat in a gallant and brilliant gentleman - quite in the spirit of the times and that the heyday that knighthood reached at the end of the twelfth century.

Well, the conclusion from all of the above will be the following: chain mail as a type of protective armor appeared a long time ago and initially, unlike functional scaled armor, wore a “magic” character. Then its functionality was also proved by practice, and the “age of chain mail” began. Moreover, the “century” is characteristic ONLY FOR EUROPE, because for a long time no mail was used in Asia in Japan, it was not popular in China, and in other countries it began to be supplemented very early with records. In Europe, the “age of chain mail” had a clear time frame and localization. But the "era of chain mail" is by no means over. It is the fifth phase. But what happened next with the armor will be explained in the following materials.
39 comments
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  1. +4
    1 June 2015 07: 09
    Excellent article, the level of detail is exceptional.
  2. +5
    1 June 2015 07: 19
    Thank you, digress from Ukraine and Donbass.
    1. -1
      1 June 2015 16: 04
      Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, is not the topic of the article, but still I would like to know what position you take regarding the traditional Normanist theory. I asked you a similar question earlier when discussing your article, but then I did not receive an answer from you.
      1. 0
        2 June 2015 07: 58
        Really off topic, completely off topic. Moreover, it is clearly seen that the question is somewhat provocative. In my opinion, for this there is an opportunity to write personal messages. Therefore, a minus.
        1. 0
          2 June 2015 08: 33
          And what do you see as provocative? There is a widespread Normanist theory and my interest in the author’s position is quite understandable, since he is often published on this site, sometimes it affects Russian national and spiritual meanings. If Shpakovsky has some difficulty in answering, then can write me in a personal, but he doesn’t do this, which naturally leads me to the corresponding conclusions. Namely, Mr. Shpakovsky is a pro-Western liberal of the confused-Gorbachev type, because he completely shares the principles of the Normanist theory, but does not want to shine his position on this patriotically site oriented.
          1. 0
            2 June 2015 08: 50
            There is a widespread Normanist theory and my interest in the author’s position is understandable.
            This itch is completely incomprehensible in an existing topic.
            Its provocativeness stems from those traditional seething of some brown substance, which causes a similar discussion between opponents on this issue. To breed this indecency in a completely pleasant and adequate topic, not related to the issue you raised ... let's say it is incorrect. Write in a personal letter to the author, call him in a hundred, shout at him in the keyhole or window, finally ... But do not pollute here with such insinuations.
            Namely, that Mr. Shpakovsky is a pro-Western liberal of the confused-Gorbachev type, therefore he fully shares the principles of the Normanist theory, but does not want to shine his position on this patriotically oriented site.
            You can keep your conclusions with you. We have freedom of speech - this is the time. And Mr. Shpakovsky owes you nothing and is not obligated to explain either personally or publicly according to your wish - these are two. If you have any indelible claims against him that are not related to chain mail material set forth in this article, look for relevant topics with his participation, write an open letter to a newspaper or television. Finally, go to court with a lawsuit ... These are three.
            But! Sorry to spare us from happiness to see your throwing and all this digging in a dubious substance.

            If you have something to say on the merits of the claimed topic of chain mail - state it. If it will be substantiated, reasoned and supported by sources, we will read it with pleasure and even give a plus sign deservedly.
            tongue
  3. +2
    1 June 2015 10: 13
    wonderful article, thanks
  4. +3
    1 June 2015 10: 58
    Thank. Interesting and useful. I look forward to continuing
  5. +3
    1 June 2015 11: 08
    What care was needed for the chain mail! After all, anti-corrosion modern coatings did not exist in those days, and the rings were clearly NOT made of "stainless steel"!
    1. +1
      1 June 2015 12: 00
      Nothing comes to mind except wax and organic oils.
      1. padonok.71
        +2
        1 June 2015 12: 23
        Quote: V.ic
        What care was needed for the chain mail! After all, anti-corrosion modern coatings did not exist in those days, and the rings were clearly NOT made of "stainless steel"!
        Maybe not very historical, but so on. from personal experience. A barrel is taken (a plastic barrel can be 25-40 liters), fine, well-washed crushed stone is poured into it, the chain is laid, closed with a lid and rolled "from here to sunset"! After 40 minutes of continuous rolling of the chain as good as new! And then a little oil and vulya!
        1. 0
          1 June 2015 13: 43
          A completely historical recipe. Only from the mountain a barrel (as some say) was not rolled. I even met engravings with the image of this chain mixer: a barrel on the axis into which chain mail is laid, sand and sometimes vinegar is added. All this rotates into a barrel for a while.
          In general. if the chain mail is constantly worn, then it does not rust - the rings rotate from movement, rub against each other and self-clean. Only the lying chain mail rusts.
          1. padonok.71
            0
            1 June 2015 15: 15
            Quote: abrakadabre
            In general. if the chain mail is constantly worn, then it does not rust - the rings rotate from movement, rub against each other and self-clean. Only the lying chain mail rusts.
            I would not say so. Even if the mail is on you too, it has come under the rain and that’s it - the mail has turned red. And then move, don’t move - the rust itself will not go away. Only a barrel.
            By the way, they didn’t think of a drive - they made handles under the barrel, like they did on a garden trolley. Live and learn. Young people now put this business on stream and use an electric motor with a belt drive.
            1. 0
              2 June 2015 07: 48
              Now for this the most convenient are small, household concrete mixers of 40-60 liters, so to speak. Only previously the inner blades are removed.
    2. +1
      1 June 2015 12: 31
      Barrel, sand, mountain ... Uiii !!!! Medieval sandblast.
      1. 0
        1 June 2015 20: 53
        Quote: cth; fyn
        Barrel, sand, mountain ...

        Barrel, aspen cubes, a lot of patience. It will also shine like a cat. Yes
        1. 0
          2 June 2015 09: 14
          And if with a drill with a terry fluffy nozzle, then finally half of the opponents will die from the irresistible splendor.
  6. +1
    1 June 2015 11: 26
    chain mail as a type of protective armor appeared a very long time ago and initially, unlike functional scaly armor, wore a “magical” character.
    That way, you can write off anything under shamans, priests and magic. Did Franco Cardini have specific samples, such that the line was clearly lined up? And then in the short translation of "Origins" there is not even such a word "chain mail".
    1. 0
      1 June 2015 12: 03
      That way, under shamans, priests and magic, anything can be attributed

      Chain mail has one important advantage - ensuring high mobility in battle. Probably this factor also played a role.
  7. +2
    1 June 2015 11: 51
    Let me give you a little criticism.
    spelling, there are jambs I advise you to give the article to a stranger to read. Give examples of "1: 6", and how does it look like let the reader think out? Maybe you still need an example? Only one version of the appearance of chain mail in only one region is considered, but how did it appear in Japan in India as it appeared in the horde.
    You claim that manufacturing is a laborious, long process, but with workshop production it becomes much simpler, the workshop method itself is more technologically advanced than the artisan one.
    generally liked
    1. 0
      1 June 2015 13: 06
      By the way, I did not find a historically reliable way to clean chain mail, except for a sand barrel and burnished with linseed oil, I also read that the Vikings used walrus fat
      1. 0
        1 June 2015 13: 42
        Quote: cth; fyn
        By the way, I did not find a historically reliable way to clean chain mail, except for a sand barrel and burnished with linseed oil, I also read that the Vikings used walrus fat

        I do not think that they cleaned it, if not boiled.
        Burnishing, processing with linseed or other oil, 180 degrees Celsius, a kind of oxidation, phosphasation is common now, by the way, if the bodies of the frets were being processed at the moment, then there were no rusts after the accident, there was a Mazda for six months and the grant neighbor had rust in place The blow formed after three days. smile
        1. +1
          2 June 2015 08: 01
          For chain mail bluing is not very reasonable. Due to the constant rotation and friction of the rings between them, the burnishing will come off. Keep in mind that burnishing at that time greatly increased the cost of an already extremely expensive product (until the 14th century).
    2. +2
      1 June 2015 13: 45
      The process of manufacturing (weaving) chain mail is laborious, but requires virtually no qualifications. Therefore, the master was unlikely to do it himself. Rather, he planted apprentices for this matter. who injected food.
      1. 0
        1 June 2015 13: 53
        Quote: abrakadabre
        The process of manufacturing (weaving) chain mail is laborious

        The first chain mail I and the boys wove in the 80s from the grover washers, then I repeated in the 2000s winding the steel wire onto the rod, a very laborious task. The truth is WINTER, there is a lot of free time. But cutting and welding cuirasses, grinding, etc. ... didn’t take so much time than chain mail.
        1. Elk
          Elk
          0
          2 June 2015 17: 58
          .And here is the cutting and welding of cuirasses, grinding and so on ... it didn’t take so much time than chain mail.

          You're wrong. The biggest difficulty in making cuirass is the smelting of steel of the required quality. It should be hard enough to hold the punch and sufficiently plastic so that it would be possible to knock out parts that are quite complex in shape from it. This is the limit of the technical capabilities of the late Middle Ages.

          Honestly, I somehow made a piece of chain mail. This process did not cause any difficulties for me. The only tedious and very long time. But the attempts to knock out the bracers ended in a rather deplorable result. THIS could close the hand, but it looked very horrible. I think after 5 years, I would have gotten something digestible.
      2. +2
        1 June 2015 14: 21
        By the way, I still found the armor of the sewn rings on the skin, I can not even believe it! 13000 pictures looked almost crazy. The funds of the Metropolitan Museum in New York, but this is not a European work, and Sudan 19 century. Be sure to show it later!
        1. 0
          1 June 2015 14: 38
          Quote: kalibr
          Sudan 19th century.

          I have the 18th century, there is a Dzungarian invasion, or rather fragments ...
          1. 0
            2 June 2015 08: 03
            You have chain mail in the classical sense. And the above mentioned armor is not from interwoven rings, but sewn onto the base in rows.
        2. +2
          1 June 2015 20: 44
          1k6 weave
    3. +2
      1 June 2015 14: 10
      An outsider is given to read when there is doubt, and when it seems that everything is OK - what should I give? And then it turns out not to be OK and ... it can be difficult to give every time. It’s not I who assert the laboriousness, but those English historians that cheated it (see part 1) It’s impossible to bring down all about Japan separately. 1: 6 I would give, but the artist did not draw. And besides, his works are worth the money. Pro Orda is like that - they had chain mail from us. Their original armor - the armor of horse archers - plate. As in China. But in China there will be a separate material - it is worth it. So it's impossible to shove everything into 10 pages. Or have to sacrifice pictures. And do not want - they are worth it.
      1. 0
        1 June 2015 14: 25
        Quote: kalibr
        eg. About Horde like that - they had chain mail from us.

        Well, the moment is interesting here, the Mongols (those who some people think are without politics) mostly wore rawhide armor or sewed bronze, steel, plates on the skin. By the way, horse tail hair was also used. It protected from chopping and saber, cutting, strokes. But the appearance of chain mail, my opinion, is the merit of campaigns in the Middle East.
        Quote: kalibr
        Their original armor - the armor of equestrian archers - records. Like in China.

        That's right! smile On a leather vest or sewn or riveted ...
        By the way, the material is not bad ... There is something to discuss but with knowledgeable people who at least held a hammer and a chisel in their hands ... laughing
      2. 0
        1 June 2015 20: 25
        English historians
        oh these british scholars wassat

        Weaving a little dragon is very interesting 2: 4
        1. +1
          2 June 2015 08: 06
          Weaving a little dragon is very interesting 2: 4
          This weaving is not fixed in historical perspective. This is a modern invention.
          1. 0
            2 June 2015 09: 16
            But fashionable, stylish, youth.
  8. padonok.71
    0
    1 June 2015 12: 27
    Drawing in the manuscript of the Chronicles of John Worcester, which is dated to the end of the XNUMXth century. On the soldiers not belted chain mail (most likely then they were worn like that)
    To my opponents in the first part. Then I could not answer, there was not enough time.
  9. 0
    1 June 2015 13: 33
    I was not at fishing vessels, meat processing plants. I heard that there is a chain mail glove, some say silver, in my stainless steel. I met a product ... that would snatch something.
    By the way, to the article, there is an average weight of 9-12 kg., It’s from knitting, or even one central ring, with a diameter larger, can be connected from 4-8 rings of smaller diameter.
    And also, an interesting moment of pulling a wire-swing, a bike and the devil knows it.
    And there were chain mails made of bronze, but it’s interesting to get carbon steel wire.
    For young people, a cuirass and a vest made of plates is effective against piercing, often, weapons.
    The author would still add about rawhide armor ...
    1. +1
      1 June 2015 14: 16
      They are poorly preserved, so what to write about them? Rather, therefore, little is written about them-ha-ha! There in Metrapoliten-Museum there is a cuirass from Africa from the state of Kanem-Born - 19 century. Cuirass! And whole!
      1. 0
        1 June 2015 14: 44
        Quote: kalibr
        They are poorly preserved, so what to write about them? Rather, therefore, little is written about them-ha-ha! There in Metrapoliten-Museum there is a cuirass from Africa from the state of Kanem-Born - 19 century. Cuirass! And whole!

        We have rusty chain mail transferred to the museum from the 17-18th century, the Dzungarian invasion. We take care of our ...
        And so take a golden man. The gold plates are sewn onto the skin. Scythians, or rather Saki is with us, a close family is USNI. And a little DULAT, there is infa on the wiki ...
        1. 0
          2 June 2015 08: 10
          And so take the golden man.
          Take a golden man in this context is not necessary. Bo has nothing to do with chain mail. This is a completely different kind of armor - scaly. And you can write more than one book about scaly armor.
    2. +2
      2 June 2015 08: 08
      The author would still add about rawhide armor ...
      The topic of the series of articles is quite clearly outlined. I don’t think it will be good if the ships are still "shove in the unwelcome. The author is already not sweet from the abundance of our critical remarks.
      wassat
  10. +2
    1 June 2015 14: 07
    The fact that chain mail was already very common in late antiquity is not at all considered. In the same Roman Empire, only legionnaires (in the imperial period) were armed with the laminar "lorica segmental". The overwhelming majority of auxiliary troops were dressed in chain mail. The same barbarians who eventually annulled the Western Roman Empire were legally its own armed forces and just massively used chain mail.

    Therefore, it is somewhat wrong to switch from hypothetical shamans (probably the Celtic period) immediately to the Carolingian era. Nevertheless, the time spread is almost a thousand and a half years. Throughout which chain mail was very common. And not only in the European and adjacent regions. In China, at the turn of the era, they also learned about chain mail. And she was considered a highly strategically guarded secret. True only from the northern steppes. Because the Chinese themselves got it along the Silk Road from the west.

    Regarding weaving:
    The main weaving is "4 in 1", as in the picture from the article. Such weaving has an optimal balance of weight-strength-flexibility, and hence cost.
    There are (and have been known since antiquity) weaving "6 in 1", "8 in 1" and "8 in 2". All of these weaves produce a less flexible, heavier but more durable fabric. Such a canvas was used to a limited extent to better protect any individual vulnerabilities. For example: collar (neck), shoulders or collarbone. It was not a technical problem to make a chain mail entirely with such weaves, but the finished product would have been exorbitant, completely impractical in weight.

    The Japanese, oddly enough, until the New Time did not learn about the above types of weaving that are common everywhere in the world and invented the bicycle in their own manner. Japanese weaves are also "4 in 1" and "6 in 1". Those who want to see what it looks like can use Google. The corresponding pictures are caught once or twice.

    At a later time in the East, weaving also existed "3 in 1". But even in the East, such weaving is not common, because it is rather dreary in performance.

    Regarding the author’s claim that small-chain mail gives poor protection: the statement is false. Provided that the rings are riveted, this is not so. Just the smaller the rings, the higher the complexity. And very, very. Therefore, chain mail from small rings could afford knights not even of average prosperity.
  11. 0
    1 June 2015 16: 36
    I picked the Internet. Found the following http://forum.xlegio.ru/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2587&mid=25721#25721. Type Celts invented chain mail around 300 BC Due to the fact that they knew how to work well with iron. They also liked to chop each other with swords: http://forum.xlegio.ru/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2587&mid=25806#M25806. Scythians ride: http://forum.xlegio.ru/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2597&mid=25919#M25919, like they don’t have any chain mail in the archaeological material at a suitable period, ordinary scaly armor.
    Well, what about the Celts with religion? Did they have this dregs with shamans and rings?
    1. 0
      1 June 2015 20: 07
      Look, this is the most affordable ...
      Osprey - Warrior - 030 - Celtic Warrior 300 bc - ad 100
      The warlike Celts have long been the subject of admiration among modern scholars and ancient enemies. In the 1st century BC. BC, Strabo wrote about them: 'in general a race ... madly in love with wars, high-spirited and fast for battle ... and on whatever excuse you stir them, you will have them ready to face danger, even if they have nothing on to their side, but their own strength and courage. Stephen Allen provides an insight into the life of the Celtic warrior and his experiences in combat - on foot, on horseback, and as a charioteer. He examines Celtic society in detail and studies the vital ritual nature of Celtic warfare. Contemporary literary sources such as Caesar, Titus Livy, Polybius, and Tacitus are used to describe reactions to the Celts, and the common folk literature of the Celts themselves underpins these classical texts, as does modern archaeological finds. Text by Stephen Allen with illustrations by Wayne Reynolds.
      1. 0
        2 June 2015 13: 04
        Quote: kalibr
        Celtic Warrior 300 bc - ad 100

        Quote: kalibr
        He examines Celtic society in detail and studies the vital ritual nature of Celtic warfare.

        There is a suspicion that the auto-translator will not help me. And going to other sources did not reveal any addiction among the Celts to hanging themselves with rings.
  12. 0
    2 June 2015 09: 05
    Large rings could not be used because they did not provide very good protection against arrows
    I would like to clarify: everything does not depend on the size of the ring in general, but, as I have mentioned many times, on the ratio "wire diameter - diameter of the inner hole of the ring". Late canyons have very large rings. However, they have good protection. It's just that the rings are very flattened.
  13. 0
    2 June 2015 13: 24
    Quote: abrakadabre
    I would like to clarify: it all depends not on the size of the ring at all

    On the forums, there was a mention that large rings can be strengthened by weaving leather straps into them. Mobility decreases, but the arrows begin to bind.

    Quote: kalibr
    By the way, I did find the armor of sewn rings on the skin, I can’t even believe it!

    And many leather elements survived from those years? 1000 years almost passed. In the same forums, I found thoughts about the ring patch. Firstly, it will look messy, because cannot be cleaned in a sand barrel like normal chain mail. Secondly, it’s not prestigious. Chain mail is much more expensive to perform. Those. determines the status and wealth of the owner, like a sword by the way. As a result, if anyone wore such armor, then there are all kinds of rogues, militias or mercenaries who have nothing to do with knights. The infantry, in general.

    Quote: padonok.71
    To my opponents in the first part. Then I could not answer, there was not enough time.

    Well, we see so. Companions of the sleeping Henry I of England stomp, but can not kill. To do this, you need to raise your hands, and their chain mail is not belted :). Anyway, what kind of knights without a belt and scabbard? Do they have swords folding in their pockets?
  14. 0
    3 June 2015 19: 46
    Thanks! Very detailed and interesting. I would like to read about Russian armor. About the manufacturing technology, and not a lot about the chemical composition of the steels used for the manufacture of chain mail, baidan, kollontari and other "ring" and "plank" armor.
    Remember the famous phrase from the movie "Alexander Nevsky": "Oh, the chain mail is short ..."