We disagree with America in aspirations and ideals - Erdogan
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has become a statesman of international importance. In Egypt and other countries, the Turkish premiere is greeted like a rock star. The Arab Spring has changed Erdogan, making him the most popular politician in the Middle East. In the past few weeks, he has been the most eloquent of all state leaders, upholding Palestine’s right to statehood in the UN. Using great support at home, Erdogan has been in office since 2003, and was recently re-elected for a new term. During his reign, the economic position and position of Turkey in the international arena has noticeably strengthened. On the sidelines of the summit at the UN headquarters in New York, he met with Time correspondent Ishan Zarur.
The Turkish Prime Minister told his interlocutors about the interrupted relations with Israel, the failure of the peace process in the Middle East, his support for the Arab revolutions, disillusionment with the UN, and also clarified the question of Turkey’s future plans regarding the European Union.
Time: You expressed support for Palestinian statehood. Some people say that the UN did not help in resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict. What do you think about that?
First and foremost, what is required of the UN Security Council is to support the legitimate demands of the Palestinian people. If additional questions arise in this case, they should be discussed already between the two states. We must also consider returning to the boundaries of 1967 of the year. At first, Israel seemed to agree to return to these borders, but then moved away from this ideal. They should get close to him. Palestine is now in a torn state. Through Time, I appeal to all of humanity. The Palestinians have the right to life, and not just general condemnation in their struggle for liberation from a concentration camp. Israel’s brutality in their attitude must finally cease. Their legal requirements for the formation of a state should be considered and supported by the UN Security Council and the General Assembly.
Four or five years ago, Turkey’s relations with Israel were close and could change the dynamics of the entire region. Now they are irrevocably broken.
Bilateral relations with Israel would develop in the same vein further if Israel had not severed them by launching an attack on the Mavi Marmara when the ship was in neutral waters. Aboard flotilla there was nothing but humanitarian aid: toys, food and basic necessities. On board were 450 citizens of 32 countries. One of the victims was an American citizen of Turkish origin. But the Israeli Prime Minister still continues to claim that the ships carried weapon. If they had a weapon, would they not fire back? The UN Security Council and the UN agencies in Geneva investigated this incident, and none of their reports state that there were weapons on the flotilla ships. The Israeli government does not want to be honest. Until they apologize for killing 9 people of Turkish origin in the Freedom Flotilla, until they compensate their families and lift the Gaza blockade, relations between our countries are not normalized.
You and French President Nicolas Sarkozy noted that the US approach to the implementation of the peace process has failed. What do you propose to do to make the peace settlement a success?
The main thing here is this: you need to test your sincerity before you start this business. Ask yourself: do we really want to resolve this conflict? Unfortunately, in the Middle East Quartet there is not the slightest sign of sincere intent. If the quartet really wanted to resolve the conflict, it would force Israel to fulfill certain conditions. To date, the UN Security Council has issued 89 resolutions on possible sanctions against Israel, none of which have been implemented. Moreover, the General Assembly issued 200 resolutions, and none was implemented.
I wonder why no sanctions are imposed on Israel? When it comes to Iran, sanctions are imposed. The same is the case with Sudan. Why is Israel so special? If sanctions were applied, the Arab-Israeli conflict would have been resolved long ago. Therefore, I want all parties to the conflict to show sincerity and confirm their actions with actions. Where reform is especially needed is in the UN. As for the permanent members of the Security Council, they must be eliminated. The whole world is a slave to the decisions of these 5 permanent members.
You have made a successful tour of the Arab Spring countries, and many people who have overthrown dictators seem to want to follow the Turkish model of democracy. Will your help be the same object of criticism as the US efforts to promote democracy in the world?
Unlike others, I did not go there just to see people on the streets. I intended to speak with presidential candidates, members of new political parties. I had the opportunity to meet many people, which gave me an idea of the situation. At my meetings, I said that Turkey is a model of democracy, a secular state and a social state, where the primacy of law is maintained. We are absolutely not trying to export our mode. If they want help, we will do whatever we need. But we have no intention to export our regime.
The country that is not exactly going to follow the Turkish model is Syria. As in the case of Israel, you put a lot of effort into developing relations with Bashar Assad. Now your relationship is broken. Is there any chance of a peaceful settlement in Syria while Assad is in power, or should he leave?
I am a person who builds relationships with people based on my principles. It is impossible to maintain friendship with people who, as leaders, attack their people, shoot at them, crush them tanks and use different types of heavy weapons against it. Even when we had cordial relations with some senior Syrian officials, we did not observe their intention to copy the Turkish model of democracy. We constantly repeated our recommendations to them, but they did not listen. In our last conversation, Assad told me that he had released all political prisoners. He said: "We have only 83 political prisoners in prison." But in reality there are many thousands. These people are not involved in violence and uprisings. They were in captivity because of their beliefs and their statements. You must know that we have in the Hatay province 7000 people who fled from the Syrian regime.
Do you think Assad has a future in Syria?
To answer this question, I need to visit the refugee camps in Hatay. But in terms of aspirations and hopes, as I said earlier, his prospects are not encouraging.
Regarding Turkey’s relations with the United States, have there been any changes over the past few years, especially with the advent of the new administration?
In the past 9 years, relations between America and Turkey have not deteriorated, but they have not improved as much as we would like. Our relationship with Obama has always been very positive. Whenever we discussed various processes in a region or in the world, we both always spoke frankly. But we would like to have closer ties, especially in the economy and trade. Because Turkey has great potential here. We would like American businessmen to invest in Turkey. I look forward to the development of our relations in a positive manner, there is no friction between us now.
What about Israel?
We have different points of view. For some issues they are the same, for others not. But these contradictions are not a reason for breaking off relations. Turkey is a sovereign state, like the United States. We can disperse in terms of our aspirations and ideals, but this does not prevent us from remaining friends.
With the strengthening of Turkey’s position in the Middle East, will it not give up its desire to join the European Union? Integration into Europe - this is not the stage passed?
Under Chirac and Schroeder, Turkey participated in all European summits. But with Sarkozy and Merkel, the situation changed dramatically. But, despite their attitude towards us, we intend to continue the path to the EU. Although, unfortunately, the faith of my people in the need to join the EU has been shaken. We will not leave our efforts on this path, because not a single European leader will ever sit at his post. One day they will be replaced. And we will also be replaced once. Turkey is becoming stronger every day, and what is happening in many European countries can be seen with the naked eye.
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