Military Review

For the supply of troops taken cars "Scorpion"

91
For the supply of the Ground Forces, army vehicles of the “Scorpion” series were taken, Interfax-AVN a message from the CEO of the Zashchita Corporation, Sergey Starun.

For the supply of troops taken cars "Scorpion"
"Scorpio" on trial

"We are talking about army vehicles" Scorpion LSHA-1 "(light assault car) with an open top," Scorpion LSHA-2 "with a hard metal top and an armored car" Scorpion LSHA-2B "," explained Starun.

According to the CEO, “armored cars will most likely prevail in the planned deliveries.”

"In the near future, a contract is expected to be signed for the release of an experimental-industrial batch of the said army vehicles," he added.

Starun did not call the exact number of cars, saying only that we are talking about dozens.

He recalled that "last summer, the armored" Scorpion LSHA-2B "as part of 15 promising military vehicle models was successfully tested in desert, sandy and mountainous areas in the Astrakhan region and the Republic of Kabardino-Balkaria." The length of the route then was about 4200 km.

On the "Scorpions" can be set different weapon, “Including Kord machine guns or KPVT, Flame grenade launcher”.

Manufacturer Help: "The car" Scorpion LSHA "has a mass up to 4,5-5 t with a carrying capacity of up to 1,1 t. Engine - hp 166 diesel engine. Maximum speed - 130 km / h. Power reserve - 1000 km. Wheel formula - 4x4. Armor protection - protection of the cabin, fuel tanks, batteries, engine compartment. The car is equipped with anti-bullet fire protection for 6 class GOST and designs from blasting devices up to 600 grams in TNT equivalent. "
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  1. Cossack Ermak
    Cossack Ermak April 30 2015 17: 57
    +27
    I want this fishing.
    1. Giant thought
      Giant thought April 30 2015 17: 59
      +7
      And the appearance of Scorpio is generally not bad, the main thing is to sting the enemies mortally, like his natural namesake.
      1. Kostyar
        Kostyar April 30 2015 18: 01
        +11
        At last! Well done! Good car!
        Lope worth? Want....
        1. lelikas
          lelikas April 30 2015 22: 01
          +2
          Quote: Bone
          At last! Well done! Good car!

          You just need to remember - the armored personnel carrier -90 was also adopted.
          1. Dryuya2
            Dryuya2 April 30 2015 23: 44
            +2
            Scorpion LSHA-2M and Scorpion LPA Test drive Auto +
            Upload date: Feb 12 2012 year

            Published: May 20 2013
            Light multi-purpose car Scorpion-2M

            Female look at the new Scorpion 2M attack aircraft
            Posted Feb 22 2015 year
          2. cyberhanter
            cyberhanter 1 May 2015 10: 40
            0
            Quote: lelikas
            You just need to remember - the armored personnel carrier -90 was also adopted.

            True armored vehicles are not armored personnel carriers - they are much cheaper)
      2. DanSabaka
        DanSabaka April 30 2015 18: 13
        +12
        I saw him about 5 years ago at an exhibition in Zhukovsky. A variant with a tarpaulin top was put up (I liked it), and an armored version after tests for undermining and firing. The suspension wheel is torn out, the hood is in the accordion, the windows are cracked, the sides are carbonized and in the tracks of bullets ... And in the cabin, though relative, but in order. The crew seemed to have survived ....
        Scorpio interested me, I hope there will be a civilian version.
      3. sssla
        sssla April 30 2015 18: 18
        +2
        Quote: Thought Giant
        And appearance

        Why, because it looks a bit like a Lynx then ?? )
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. enot73
      enot73 April 30 2015 18: 15
      +17
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.
      If with AGS, then you can suppress the fish. and if with a "cord", then you can play ducks laughing
      1. ksv1973
        ksv1973 April 30 2015 18: 30
        +5
        Quote: enot73
        Quote: Cossack Ermak
        I want this fishing.
        If with AGS, then you can suppress the fish. and if with a "cord", then you can play ducks ...

        He seems to have a winch. It will be convenient to pull the net stuffed with fish! drinks
        1. Russian Uzbek
          Russian Uzbek April 30 2015 18: 32
          +7
          "jam the fish" - phew! this is poaching!
          1. Fregate
            Fregate April 30 2015 19: 33
            +7
            Quote: Russian Uzbek
            "jam the fish" - phew! this is poaching!

            Then you can "jam" the poachers with the AGS, and drive them from Korda.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. Cossack Ermak
      Cossack Ermak April 30 2015 18: 20
      +4
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      See how high the air intake is. You can force half of the rivers along the bottom. And you can show the armored fish inspection faki. Dream of a fisherman!)
    6. Cossack Ermak
      Cossack Ermak April 30 2015 18: 20
      0
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      See how high the air intake is. You can force half of the rivers along the bottom. And you can show the armored fish inspection faki. Dream of a fisherman!)
    7. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim April 30 2015 18: 29
      +3
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      The future replacement UAZ in the army. At first there were a lot of foreign components, the Polish engine for sure. I hope that now the spare parts and parts are domestic.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv April 30 2015 18: 41
        +2
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Quote: Cossack Ermak
        I want this fishing.

        The future replacement UAZ in the army. At first there were a lot of foreign components, the Polish engine for sure. I hope that now the spare parts and parts are domestic.

        Yes.
        Moreover, the developers themselves said that replacing the Polish Andoria with our YaMZ is difficult - then the car will immediately go into the "heavy" class.
        Does anyone know how this issue was resolved?
        1. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 1 May 2015 01: 45
          0
          Solved the problem just bought a license for the production of Andoria
          1. Alf
            Alf 1 May 2015 15: 46
            0
            Quote: ivshubarin
            Solved the problem just bought a license for the production of Andoria

            More precisely, please. Is it completely produced here, to the last detail, or like Iveco, are the numbers just screwed on?
      2. glasha3032
        glasha3032 1 May 2015 00: 52
        0
        UAZ - for other purposes. It was developed to carry commanders on the road.
    8. Russian Uzbek
      Russian Uzbek April 30 2015 18: 31
      +6
      and I have LUAZ rushing not bad!
    9. tol100v
      tol100v April 30 2015 18: 32
      +4
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      Fishing in the area of ​​Boryspil and Zhulyan! This will be fishing!
      1. Genry
        Genry 1 May 2015 02: 17
        0
        Quote: Tol100v
        Fishing in the area of ​​Boryspil and Zhulyan

        There is no water ... But between them is the Dnieper.
    10. matross
      matross April 30 2015 18: 38
      +2
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      Fishing is more convenient for fishing, don’t you?wink
      He does not seem to be floatinglaughing
    11. Koshak
      Koshak April 30 2015 19: 22
      +2
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      Taking into account the cost of the "Scorpion" itself and fuel consumption, all the fish will be golden
    12. jjj
      jjj April 30 2015 20: 03
      0
      Quote: Cossack Ermak
      I want this fishing.

      With such a mass, you already have to install a tachograph with GLONASS and cryptography
    13. seregatara1969
      seregatara1969 April 30 2015 20: 17
      0
      weight of 5 tons will not work
    14. starshina78
      starshina78 1 May 2015 13: 55
      0
      And which engine is on this car? Not imported? And will we again become dependent on supplies?
  2. RUSS
    RUSS April 30 2015 17: 57
    +7
    A worthy replacement for a decent UAZ.
    1. marshes
      marshes April 30 2015 18: 16
      +3
      Quote: RUSS
      A worthy replacement for a decent UAZ.

      Although not a fan, but the UAZ is the UAZ, the Gaz-69 (with the UAZ bridges and the gearbox and the engine), he “made” Wrangel and Patrol, it is a pity that the rally was no longer held.
      1. Andrey77
        Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 22
        0
        The old 80th Kruzak will make both gas and UAZ. AND?
        1. tol100v
          tol100v April 30 2015 18: 39
          +3
          Quote: Andrey77
          The old 80th Kruzak will make both gas and UAZ. AND?

          For comfort, etc. will do, BUT not always, in harsh conditions UAZ - ABOVE!
        2. Inok10
          Inok10 April 30 2015 18: 59
          +10
          Quote: Andrey77
          The old 80th Kruzak will make both gas and UAZ. AND?

          .. a very bold statement and even very self-confident .. given the especially debut of the 80s in 1989 .. and the 469th back in August 1974 conquered Elbrus, climbed 4200 without a winch and without chains ... that's a fact .. laughing
          1. Vasek
            Vasek April 30 2015 23: 38
            0
            Quote: Inok10
            469y still in August 1974 conquered Elbrus, climbed 4200 without a winch and without chains ... this is a fact ..

            It is also a fact that hunters still prefer Niva. And not because of comfort.
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 1 May 2015 00: 14
              0
              Quote: Vasek
              It is also a fact that hunters still prefer Niva.

              High in the mountains I saw only the UAZ and the Cossacks. wink
            2. Genry
              Genry 1 May 2015 02: 21
              0
              Niva has the most efficient all-wheel drive. It pulls well and fuel is not in vain.
              Her border guards love her.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 1 May 2015 09: 29
                -2
                Quote: Genry
                Niva has the most efficient all-wheel drive. It pulls well and fuel is not in vain.
                Her border guards love her.

                Niva does not have a 4x4 drive.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Alf
                  Alf 1 May 2015 15: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: RUSS
                  Niva does not have a 4x4 drive.

                  Description of the design. VAZ-2121 — a small cross-country passenger car (SUV). Transmission with permanent all-wheel drive,
        3. Koshak
          Koshak April 30 2015 19: 34
          +2
          Quote: Andrey77
          The old 80th Kruzak will make both gas and UAZ. AND?

          It is not a fact that he will "make" the 469th with army bridges. The Japs, when they first saw a UAZ with wheel gears, uttered the famous phrase: "What can these Russians not come up with, just not to build good roads"
      2. ermolai
        ermolai April 30 2015 18: 32
        +2
        Quote: marshes
        Gaz-69 (with UAZ bridges and gearbox and engine), he "made" Wrangel and Patrols,

        Duc is the same UAZ, Toko on the frame of the 69th. lighter, the base was doing less.
        1. marshes
          marshes April 30 2015 18: 43
          0
          Quote: ermolai
          Duc is the same UAZ, Toko on the frame of the 69th. lighter, the base was doing less.

          Exactly smile What do they not release the three doors?
      3. tol100v
        tol100v April 30 2015 18: 36
        +1
        Quote: marshes
        but UAZ is UAZ,

        UAZ also made the Hammers (N-1)!
        1. marshes
          marshes April 30 2015 18: 46
          0
          Quote: Tol100v
          UAZ also made the Hammers (N-1)!

          not only UAZ but Defender, even Cobra-1, Hammer like Dodge 3/4, it goes well under weight, you load well, it’s normal, bro had H-1, show-offs ... smile
      4. Vasek
        Vasek April 30 2015 23: 36
        0
        Quote: marshes
        "did" Wrangel and Patrol, it is a pity that the rally has ceased to be carried out.

        Try the Nissan Xterra, it may surprise you.
    2. Inok10
      Inok10 April 30 2015 19: 03
      +10
      Quote: RUSS
      A worthy replacement for a decent UAZ.

      .. eh, nostalgia .. how many kilometers have been counted on it .. good ..but Vsezh Veteran needs a change from 1974 in the service .. let's hope the change has grown worthy in the person of LSA .. wink
      1. Genry
        Genry 1 May 2015 02: 28
        +1
        Such an UAZ will always be needed. He’s not going anywhere from the army.
        Well, maybe it’s modernized, but will remain in the same weight category.
        Without it, ride tanks in a dope?
  3. samarin1969
    samarin1969 April 30 2015 17: 58
    +2
    Hammer is not afraid ... but thinks ...
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 05
      +3
      Hammer old man, what are you talking about?
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. vyinemeynen
    vyinemeynen April 30 2015 17: 58
    +1
    A CIVIL OPTION weakly?
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 06
      +2
      Not profitable. For the sake of 2 fans of "military".
  6. RUSS
    RUSS April 30 2015 18: 03
    +1
    It is strange why this "apparatus" will not be on the Parade?
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 08
      0
      Because they are not taken into service, but for supply. Is it hard to guess?
      1. RUSS
        RUSS April 30 2015 18: 14
        0
        Quote: Andrey77
        Because they are not taken into service, but for supply. Is it hard to guess?

        "Armata" has not yet been accepted.
  7. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 April 30 2015 18: 05
    +5
    Good news. The car turned out decent.
    The pilot operation in the troops is a great chance for a development company to launch this machine in a series. I wish you guys success, now everything is in your hands.
    I hope that the army will order "Scorpions" in the same quantities as the good old UAZ.

    And the car was really great, in its class.

    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 18: 24
      +8
      Video topic:







    2. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv April 30 2015 18: 43
      0
      Quote: wanderer_032
      And the car was really great, in its class.

      Hi Sasha.
      hi
      Not vkurse, what replaced the Polish Andoria? Another dvigl or what?
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 April 30 2015 19: 56
        +1
        Hi Lesha.

        No, I don’t know about dvigla.
        Based on what was published on the Zashchita website, they bought a license from the Poles for the independent production of these motors. I remember that someone from "Zashchita" said in an interview that they even bought equipment for the production of these diesels at their plant.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv April 30 2015 21: 39
          +2
          Quote: wanderer_032
          I remember that someone from "Zashchita" said in an interview that they even bought equipment for the production of these diesels at their plant.

          Yes, they did have plans.)))
          If done, then wonderful.
          It’s business and technology and all that. Good dvigl never hurts.
          yes
  8. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack April 30 2015 18: 06
    +3
    a good machine - I've heard about it for a long time.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 11
      -2
      Nothing good. A simple cut of the state order.
  9. Hubun
    Hubun April 30 2015 18: 07
    +4
    not bad, "KORD" with AGS on it will also be great
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 13
      -8
      Og. She will not budge.
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 18: 27
      +1
      Quote: Hubun
      not bad, "KORD" with AGS on it will also be great


      CORD is already definitely on the DBM. Watch the video above.
      And hypertension can also be delivered without problems.
      1. Hubun
        Hubun 1 May 2015 15: 58
        0
        I just assumed that the video appeared after my comment
  10. marshes
    marshes April 30 2015 18: 08
    +1
    Okay, dviglo diesel. How does it start in winter?
  11. Megatron
    Megatron April 30 2015 18: 13
    +2
    Found the Tigers, only something expensive, seen before and 2.5-3.5mn.
    There are no scorpions anywhere.
  12. Andrey77
    Andrey77 April 30 2015 18: 17
    0
    The diesel engine is the Polish Andoria 0501 ADCR turbocharged. Maximum power 136hp at 3700 rpm. On Uazbuk, they have long since revealed everything.
  13. avt
    avt April 30 2015 18: 23
    +1
    "Army vehicles of the" Scorpion "series have been accepted for the supply of the Ground Forces," ---- Whom will it supply? Especially if right there - "" We are talking about army vehicles "Scorpion LSHA-1" (light assault vehicle) with an open on horseback, "Scorpion LSHA-2" with a hard metal top and an armored vehicle "Scorpion LSHA-2B", ”explained Staren.

    According to the CEO, “armored cars will most likely prevail in the planned deliveries.”

    "In the near future, it is expected to sign a contract for the production of a pilot batch of these army vehicles," he added. "----- request So what's this? Assault or supply? Why is he better than Tiger? Just less? Why so many different machines then?
    Quote: Andrey77
    Nothing good. A simple cut of the state order.

    Looks like .
    1. RUSS
      RUSS April 30 2015 18: 38
      +5
      Quote: avt
      "Army vehicles of the" Scorpion "series have been accepted for the supply of the Ground Forces," ---- Whom will it supply? Especially if right there - "" We are talking about army vehicles "Scorpion LSHA-1" (light assault vehicle) with an open on horseback, "Scorpion LSHA-2" with a hard metal top and an armored vehicle "Scorpion LSHA-2B", ”explained Staren.

      According to the CEO, “armored cars will most likely prevail in the planned deliveries.”

      "In the near future, it is expected to sign a contract for the production of a pilot batch of these army vehicles," he added. "----- request So what's this? Assault or supply? Why is he better than Tiger? Just less? Why so many different machines then?
      Quote: Andrey77
      Nothing good. A simple cut of the state order.

      Looks like .

      it is no better or worse than the Tiger, it is different and it is not correct to compare it with the Tiger, the scorpion has long been positioned as a replacement for the UAZ, and the Tiger is more of a "beter" than an armored car and is expensive to supply.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 April 30 2015 18: 48
        +4
        Quote: RUSS
        it is no better or worse than the Tiger, it is different and it is not correct to compare it with the Tiger, the scorpion has long been positioned as a replacement for the UAZ, and the Tiger is more of a "beter" than an armored car and is expensive to supply.


        I fully support. These are cars of slightly different classes.
        And each has its own niche.
      2. avt
        avt April 30 2015 18: 54
        +2
        Quote: RUSS
        , the scorpion has long been positioned as a replacement for the UAZ, and the Tiger is more of a "beter

        And why armored "Bobik"? Especially since it is quite possible to get a traveling car on the basis of the Patriot, in the end, make a pickup on the basis of the Patriot - it will be cheaper than this "specific apparatus for specific tasks" or supply , or an assault. And maybe a supply assault, or is it a supply assault !? wassat Here in the article, the speech smoothly reduces to an assault unit, well, look at what the likely friends in the vehicle segment do for the same special forces in the countries.
        Quote: ilyaspb
        Wouldn’t it be an advertised soap bubble,
        Exactly against the background of those assault vehicles - a soap bubble.
        Yes easily.
        Quote: erased
        . If the armored Scorpions are accepted, then where are the tigers?

        Well, he left for his specific tasks, but he cannot come to the tasks for this "Scorpion" - not a tiger case. Specifics! By the way - where is the advertised "Wolf" in a multifunctional design ???? Then it's not that the "Tiger" - this "Scorpion" is not needed. And for the supply, I would rather take from the existing "Sadko", well, instead of the 66th.
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 April 30 2015 19: 06
          +2
          Quote: avt
          Moreover, it is quite possible to get a traveling vehicle on the Patriot base, in the end, make a pickup on the Patriot base - it will be cheaper than this "specific apparatus for specific tasks" either supply or assault. assault, or all the same assault on supplies !?


          "Patriot" is not suitable for the role of a multipurpose army vehicle of this class.
          First of all, in terms of load capacity and capacity.
          The guys from "Zashchita" got the car for these purposes.
          Also, you cannot put a normal armored hull on the Patriot chassis, because the Patrick has no reserves to increase the mass. Only local bookings can be placed on Patrick, but this is not enough.
          On the Scorpion, a full-fledged armored hull is easily installed.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS April 30 2015 19: 36
          +1
          Quote: avt
          Moreover, it is quite possible on the Patriot base to get

          How many decades will UAZ be further developed and booked and is it possible to book it, not as a collection vehicle, but as a military one?
          Quote: avt
          - and where is the advertised "Wolf" in a multifunctional design ????

          And who told you that there will be a "wolf", his fate as well as a "bear" for the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not clear.
          1. ilyaspb
            ilyaspb April 30 2015 19: 46
            +1
            and is it possible to book it, not as a collection vehicle, namely as a military

            And where did you get the idea that the UAZ reservation for troops should be different from the cash collection? I’m not saying anything, but why, based on the tactics of using the RF Armed Forces?
            1. RUSS
              RUSS April 30 2015 20: 53
              +1
              Quote: ilyaspb
              And where did you get the idea that the UAZ reservation for troops should be different from the collection?

              Well, at least a class of armor protection.
              1. ilyaspb
                ilyaspb April 30 2015 21: 06
                +1
                Not "what", but "why"? What are the official tactical considerations imposed on the maintenance of a fleet of fundamentally new vehicles?
        3. Vasek
          Vasek April 30 2015 23: 47
          +1
          Quote: avt
          Or maybe a storm assault, or all the same, a storm assault!?

          laughing Cheered nachproda!
          A kind of "bread truck" with AGS on the roof ...
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 18: 42
      +2
      Quote: avt
      How is he better than "Tiger"?


      The chassis and transmission are the minimum. The Tigers have armored personnel carriers (APC) bridges. They are somewhat more complex than the Scorpion bridges. Plus, BTR rubber is again more expensive.
      That is, the "Tiger" is definitely not a mass car.

      Many who have heard about the "Scorpions" about the fact that there is a Polish diesel.
      But not many people know, or they deliberately pretend not to know that Zashchita bought a license for this engine from the Poles and can produce it at its own enterprise.
      And no one else produces such diesel engines in this class.

      YaMZ-534-10 which on the "Tiger" will be heavier, and larger in size.
      1. ilyaspb
        ilyaspb April 30 2015 18: 59
        +1
        The chassis and transmission are the minimum. The Tigers have armored personnel carriers (APC) bridges. They are somewhat more complex than the Scorpion bridges. Plus, BTR rubber is again more expensive.
        That is, the "Tiger" is definitely not a mass car.

        BTR-80, for example, is not a mass machine? Yes, even the T-72 tank. Massiveness is determined by need, based on tactical tasks, and not just cost. Again, where is the unification? Maybe then from multi-role fighters and main tanks to refuse?
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 April 30 2015 19: 50
          0
          Quote: ilyaspb
          BTR-80, for example, is not a mass machine?


          Definitely not. Look at the total number of wheeled armored personnel carriers in service with our Armed Forces and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and then everything will become clear to you.

          Russia:
          The Russian Army - more than 4000 BTR-60, BTR-70, BTR-80 and more than 200 BTR-80A, BTR-82A as of 2013
          Russian Marines - more than 500 BTR-60, BTR-70 and BTR-80, as of 2013
          Coastal troops of the Russian Navy - 280 BTR-60, BTR-70 and BTR-80, as of 2013
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C1%D2%D0-80

          Total: 4780 wheeled armored personnel carriers of all types. How many of them are in service with the MVD is unknown.
          1. ilyaspb
            ilyaspb April 30 2015 19: 54
            0
            Total: 4780 wheeled armored personnel carriers of all types. How many of them are in service with the MVD is unknown.

            And this is not a mass machine? How many years will the plant be loaded if it decides to release as many more?
            Especially in comparison with the "dozens" of these same "Scorpions".
            In the VV MVD 1650 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles combined.
            1. wanderer_032
              wanderer_032 April 30 2015 20: 11
              0
              Quote: ilyaspb
              And this is not a mass machine?


              No, not massive. A more common term is more suitable.

              By the way, the new armored personnel carrier cost about 20 million rubles, at prices that were a year or two ago.
              That is, approximately like 10 military trucks of the URAL or KAMAZ type.

              Quote: ilyaspb
              Especially in comparison with the "dozens" of these same "Scorpions"


              This comparison is inappropriate. Since the "Scorpions" are new machines, the batch of which is planned to be purchased for trial military operation.

              In addition, I cited data from Wiki on wheeled armored personnel carriers of all models from 60-current to 82-x, which are in service. And if they are scattered, at least mentally, over all motorized rifle brigades, naval MP brigades and other military formations, then their number will be very small in them.
              1. ilyaspb
                ilyaspb April 30 2015 20: 18
                +1
                No, not massive. A more common term is more suitable.

                OK, when does the "mass" start and why?
                Why do not you take into account the number of armored personnel carriers delivered to other countries?
                T-34 released 35 and this is the MOST MASSIVE medium WWII tank. The difference is an order of magnitude, but it’s the most, and your numbers are only for the RF Armed Forces,
                By the way, the new armored personnel carrier cost about 20 million rubles, at prices that were a year or two ago.
                That is, approximately like 10 military trucks of the URAL or KAMAZ type.

                Who said it must be cheaper. Why not happy?
                Suppose this "Protection" collapses in 10 years, the state needs to provide itself with these machines. What is cheaper - to buy an armored personnel carrier instead, or to raise production for the sake of a dozen machines?
                In addition, I cited data from Wiki on wheeled armored personnel carriers of all models from 60-current to 82-x, which are in service. And if they are scattered, at least mentally, over all motorized rifle brigades, naval MP brigades and other military formations, then their number will be very small in them.

                And explosives will be almost entirely on wheeled armored personnel carriers.
                1. wanderer_032
                  wanderer_032 April 30 2015 20: 51
                  0
                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  OK, when does the "mass" start and why?


                  When all the motorized rifles of our motorized rifle brigades, which are equipped with such equipment throughout the state, will move to the battlefield on such armored personnel carriers, then we can say that it is massive.

                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  Why do not you take into account the number of armored personnel carriers delivered to other countries?


                  What's the point? They are delivered to other countries and are their property, and not ours.
                  Although produced from us. The mobility and combat effectiveness of our motorized infantry, vehicles exported in no way affect.

                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  Who said it must be cheaper. Why not happy?


                  Yes, because there is a high demand for a multi-purpose vehicle from the army. "Tiger" is of little use for this role. And primarily because of the complexity and high cost of its production. "Tiger" is a special forces vehicle and nothing more.


                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  Suppose this "Protection" collapses in 10 years, the state needs to provide itself with these machines.


                  And if AMZ collapses or UVZ? After all, these are the same private commercial enterprises.
                  Be sure if the state has a need for such machines, then the state will do everything to satisfy it.

                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  What is cheaper - to buy armored personnel carriers instead, or to increase production for a dozen cars?


                  It is definitely not cheaper to buy armored personnel carriers instead of multipurpose vehicles. Because, firstly, this technique is of a different class, and secondly, the cost of one "Scorpion" is ten times less than the cost of one BTR-80/82. In any case.

                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  And explosives will be almost entirely on wheeled armored personnel carriers.


                  Stupidity is foolish. I have quite reliable information that the main armored vehicles that are currently available in the Ministry of Internal Affairs are BMP-1/2.
                  VVs have very few armored personnel carriers. The basis of the wheel fleet of vehicles is left by URAL and KAMAZ military trucks.
                  And precisely for this reason, the command of the Ministry of Internal Affairs VV is in an active search for wheeled armored vehicles for their needs. And for a long time.
                  1. ilyaspb
                    ilyaspb April 30 2015 21: 05
                    0
                    When all the motorized rifles of our motorized rifle brigades, which are equipped with such equipment throughout the state, will move to the battlefield on such armored personnel carriers, then we can say that it is massive.

                    Or maybe then all the saleswomen of wine-vodka shops? The machine is used for its intended purpose.
                    Yes, because there is a high demand for a multi-purpose vehicle from the army. "Tiger" is of little use for this role. And primarily because of the complexity and high cost of its production. "Tiger" is a special forces vehicle and nothing more.

                    facts, facts, please.
                    It is definitely not cheaper to buy armored personnel carriers instead of multipurpose vehicles. Because, firstly, this technique is of a different class, and secondly, the cost of one "Scorpion" is ten times less than the cost of one BTR-80/82. In any case.

                    Why did they omit the question of raising production from scratch? For defense products, this is a must-have item for planning. Raising machine production in a new place is definitely more expensive than purchasing an armored personnel carrier.
                    Not to mention the organization of repair and maintenance of a fleet of fundamentally new machines, devices, storage of individual and group sets of spare parts for these piece machines.
                    Stupidity is foolish. I have quite reliable information that the main armored vehicles that are currently available in the Ministry of Internal Affairs are BMP-1/2.
                    VVs have very few armored personnel carriers. The basis of the wheel fleet of vehicles is left by URAL and KAMAZ military trucks.
                    And precisely for this reason, the command of the Ministry of Internal Affairs VV is in an active search for wheeled armored vehicles for their needs. And for a long time.
                    There is nothing to parry, apparently I personally was lucky to meet exclusively with an armored personnel carrier.
                    What's the point? They are delivered to other countries and are their property, and not ours.
                    Although produced from us. The mobility and combat effectiveness of our motorized infantry, vehicles exported in no way affect.

                    Because the mass of the product determines precisely the number of manufactured products, and not the number of products located elsewhere.
                    1. wanderer_032
                      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 21: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: ilyaspb
                      facts, facts, please.


                      Data. And the facts are that the Tiger's transmission and chassis assemblies are much more difficult to manufacture, and therefore more expensive.
                      I already wrote about this above.

                      Quote: ilyaspb
                      Why did they omit the question of raising production from scratch?


                      From what zero? Are you delusional or what? People from "Zashchita" have been working on a car of this class for many years. And they also have their own production facilities.








                      First, they developed the "Scorpion" car based on the UAZ. It was back in 2003.






                      Then they completely developed their own body and armored hull, and also introduced the corresponding components and assemblies. The result is "Scorpion-2M" (MB)
                      1. wanderer_032
                        wanderer_032 April 30 2015 22: 09
                        +4
                        That is, this car turned out as a result of the evolution of the structure, and not just fell from the sky.

                        And this, incidentally, is the high cost of research and development, pilot production, testing, exhibitions.

                        The question is, why the heck would they have to do it, if, like here, many people use their languages ​​to try, it was necessary to stupidly "cut the budget"?

                        When they cut the budget, they don’t go to such costs. So people have serious intentions.

                        And already stop talking nonsense about the fact that it’s profitable to replace light multi-purpose vehicles with 8-wheeled 16-ton armored personnel carriers.

                        I consider further discussion on this topic a waste of time.
                      2. ilyaspb
                        ilyaspb April 30 2015 22: 33
                        -3
                        That is, this car turned out as a result of the evolution of the structure, and not just fell from the sky.

                        And this, incidentally, is the high cost of research and development, pilot production, testing, exhibitions.

                        R&D - the most convenient for drinking =)

                        When they cut the budget, they don’t go to such costs. So people have serious intentions.

                        For some reason, you stubbornly ignore the direct comparison of "Protection" with commercial Transas - how much money was invested there, both private and state, the result is deplorable.

                        And already stop talking nonsense about the fact that it’s profitable to replace light multi-purpose vehicles with 8-wheeled 16-ton armored personnel carriers.
                        You came up with it. I just argued that the knot from the armored personnel carrier does not make the Tiger obviously not massive. And I have already explained this to you earlier, but you preferred to be rude :) It characterizes, however :). Moreover, in Wikipedia, from which you get your data, the term "Mass production" is used in relation to the APC.
                        tongues rub

                        stop talking nonsense

                        I consider further discussion on this topic a waste of time.

                        I agree that you are communicating too unbalanced, giving vent to emotions and ignoring direct questions about production feasibility, you would steer cool beeps.
                      3. ilyaspb
                        ilyaspb April 30 2015 22: 26
                        -2
                        From what zero? Are you delusional or what? People from "Zashchita" have been working on a car of this class for many years. And they also have their own production facilities.

                        Why insults? Are you so unsure of yourself?
                        From scratch because
                        1. All this belongs to "Zashchita" and they can drink / sell a production line in parts any day instantly. UVZ, at least by design, cannot be sold this way because of a controlling stake in the state.
                        2. The plant can be lost for any reason, for example, radiation contamination of the area, the creation of the Ural People's Republic. Should this happen with UVZ, according to the mobilization plan it has a backup. How much does it cost to create a Defense backup?
                  2. ilyaspb
                    ilyaspb April 30 2015 21: 27
                    -1

                    And if AMZ collapses or UVZ?

                    Organize production at other enterprises. In this regard, there are plans to mobilize enterprises.
                    After all, these are the same private commercial enterprises.

                    It is not true, 51% of the state is holding on to to control its survivability, and this "Protection" is generally HZ, whose.
                    Be sure if the state has a need for such machines, then the state will do everything to satisfy it.

                    That is, if there is an opportunity to have another hemorrhoids, would you prefer not to miss it?
                  3. ilyaspb
                    ilyaspb April 30 2015 21: 51
                    0
                    It is definitely not cheaper to buy armored personnel carriers instead of multipurpose vehicles. Because, firstly, this technique is of a different class, and secondly, the cost of one "Scorpion" is ten times less than the cost of one BTR-80/82. In any case.

                    And the point is not in the BTR-80, after all, but in what you said:
                    The chassis and transmission are the minimum. The Tigers have armored personnel carriers (APC) bridges. They are somewhat more complex than the Scorpion bridges. Plus, BTR rubber is again more expensive.
                    That is, the "Tiger" is definitely not a mass car.

                    That is, in your words, a machine with nodes from an armored personnel carrier cannot be mass. The BTR itself, and the BMP and the tank can also be massive. And the number of BTR-80 is small, not because it is structurally obviously not massive, but because other BTRs are producedwere leaked, and this releaseis.
                    If an armored car is required for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation or the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, then why produce light, medium and heavy armored vehicles? This has already taken place on tanks. Enough basic. Why this zoo: tigers, scorpions, wolves, bears?
                    1. wanderer_032
                      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 22: 18
                      +3
                      Quote: ilyaspb
                      If an armored car is required for the RF Armed Forces or the MVD of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, then why produce light, medium and heavy armored vehicles?


                      The Scorpion-2M (MB) family of vehicles is a FAMILY of light MULTI-PURPOSE military vehicles, including the armored version.
                      Which will come to replace the UAZ in the army.
                      And not just a stupid armored car like the "Tiger", which was originally developed as an SPM, ie. SPECIAL armored car.

                      Do you understand the difference in this? If you do not understand, then there is no point in chewing something. Because all one is useless.
                      1. ilyaspb
                        ilyaspb April 30 2015 22: 24
                        0
                        So you didn’t say that when you were asked, but about the nodes from the armored personnel carrier.
                        There is no doubt that you understand the most, calm down.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. ilyaspb
                        ilyaspb 1 May 2015 12: 38
                        0
                        And not just a stupid armored car like the "Tiger", which was originally developed as an SPM, ie. SPECIAL armored car.

                        By the way, the rubber stick and handcuffs are also called SPECIAL means, which, as it were, indicates their use by SPECIAL services, and not their singularity in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. So, also not counted.
              2. ilyaspb
                ilyaspb April 30 2015 20: 49
                0
                In addition, why do not you think those that are in storage?
                1. wanderer_032
                  wanderer_032 April 30 2015 20: 57
                  0
                  Quote: ilyaspb
                  In addition, why do not you think those that are in storage?


                  Just in those data from Wiki all wheeled APCs that are in service, including and those that are in storage.
                  Mostly 60s and 70s are in storage, most of the 80s are in operation in operating parts.
                  1. ilyaspb
                    ilyaspb April 30 2015 21: 19
                    0

                    Just in those data from Wiki all wheeled APCs that are in service, including and those that are in storage.

                    Oh, you're cheating.
                    Another 4000 BTR-60/70 in storage, that is, almost the same

                    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%BE%D1%80%
                    D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%83%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D
                    1%85_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D
                    0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8
  14. ilyaspb
    ilyaspb April 30 2015 18: 37
    -1
    There is a question. Who owns this Zashchita corporation? Will it not turn out to be an advertised soap bubble that, bursting, will leave behind only an unfulfilled state. An order for these machines? Like Transas, which at the moment, according to insiders, is now being sawed by the oligarchs, and the aviation sector is simply being destroyed, leaving unfulfilled international orders for aviation simulators, not to mention the shooting simulator, which was put in a lot of places, but was not brought to mind, and closed UAV projects that gobbled up a lot of money.
    So far, the interaction between the defense industry and the private business leaves only losses.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 18: 56
      0
      This is completely our Russian company.

      CJSC Corporation Zashchita, founded in 1993, currently occupies one of the leading positions in the market of manufacturers of special and armored vehicles in Russia.
      The company’s activities are aimed at the development and production of special and armored vehicles for civil and military purposes on the basis of domestic and foreign vehicles of various modifications, intended for the transportation of valuable goods, VIPs, special forces personnel in carrying out operational tasks.

      The structure of the enterprise includes a Scientific and Technical Center, a commercial service, a service station and an assembly plant located in Moscow and Fryazino, Moscow Region.
      http://www.zashchita.ru/about/

      The form of ownership, ZAO, indicates that the shares of this company do not go on free sale on exchanges. That is, shareholders are a limited number of people who at one time invested their money in this enterprise.

      So this is hardly a soap bubble. The office is serious.
      1. ilyaspb
        ilyaspb April 30 2015 19: 11
        -1
        This is completely our Russian company.

        You did not understand. To whom belongs. The above mentioned Transas also belongs to completely Russian oligarchs.
        The form of ownership, ZAO, indicates that the shares of this company do not go on free sale on exchanges.

        The amount of sawn may exceed the authorized capital :). Transas is also a closed joint stock company, but to trash state. order is not afraid.
      2. ilyaspb
        ilyaspb April 30 2015 19: 18
        -1
        There was a journalistic investigation proving that even "Defense Systems" belonged through a chain of legal entities. persons to one individual face.
        And this is a much more serious office ...
  15. erased
    erased April 30 2015 18: 37
    +3
    Miles sorry, esquise mua, mom so and so. But the questioner himself has matured in destruction and does not fit into it. If the armored Scorpions are accepted, then where are the tigers? Nauzhta, pulling the tail, again several brands of the same type of machine took? But what about enta itself, unification, with a tail on the forehead, where did it, darling, yeshkin copper, have disappeared? Well, with her, a cursed root in your nose, did the adversaries lobby?
    That is the question, as Hamlet Oganesovich Tolstopupkin used to say. And where is the looking one looking?
  16. passenger
    passenger April 30 2015 18: 40
    0
    In the photo, imported rubber. Or is it not important?
  17. Hannibal Lecter
    Hannibal Lecter April 30 2015 18: 46
    +1
    Good car. The engine is Polish. Wolves for the second trip through Poland to Berlin, I think will prefer the T-90
  18. Vishnevsky
    Vishnevsky April 30 2015 18: 52
    0
    I wonder how it will be installed KPVT? Quite voluminous weapons along with the control unit.
  19. ASK505
    ASK505 April 30 2015 19: 35
    -1
    This car does not inspire confidence. Doesn’t keep the road, the engine is from sworn Polish friends and it is still unknown what will come up. There will be no future. Correctly said, the next cut of budget funds.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 April 30 2015 21: 03
      +1
      Quote: ASK505
      Does not hold the road


      Have you ever traveled on muddy clay in an empty truck?
      Based on these your words did not go. And you take to talk about it.
      Any car is prone to skidding when driving in such road conditions.
  20. Bradypodidae
    Bradypodidae April 30 2015 20: 00
    +1
    There is "Tiger", "Wolf". Why else "Scorpio"? What can he do that "Tiger" and "Wolf" cannot?
    1. ilyaspb
      ilyaspb April 30 2015 20: 01
      +2
      Grandmas in the right pocket to shift.
  21. ssn18
    ssn18 April 30 2015 20: 04
    -3
    Title: “Scorpion” cars were accepted for the supply of troops ???
    Who wrote a foreigner ???
    Maybe more correct "Scorpion cars are adopted by the troops.
    A car is a class!
  22. ssn18
    ssn18 April 30 2015 21: 07
    +1
    Aw, the Polish engine, well tady oh!
    The guys from the local flying club (Pirigovo) told me how the Polish Mi-2s came to them in helicopter kits. Collected by yourself. Well, they found interesting notes there ..............
    Personally, I have no faith in the Poles ....... Well, plus the opinion of the late father, a career officer who had been drumming in Poland for 8 years.
  23. Radikal
    Radikal April 30 2015 21: 25
    +1
    Quote: tronin.maxim
    Quote: Cossack Ermak
    I want this fishing.

    The future replacement UAZ in the army. At first there were a lot of foreign components, the Polish engine for sure. I hope that now the spare parts and parts are domestic.

    Are there not enough "horses" for an armored car? I have a 200 hp engine on my Ford Kuga, but I have not yet armored it. laughing
  24. ssn18
    ssn18 April 30 2015 21: 38
    0
    BTR-60, BTR-70 is not an armored personnel carrier at all. 2 engines each. Only a cool special can synchronize this. or self-taught by experiment and tuning in motion. Had the negligence of the operation of the BTR-60PB and, on its basis, the unit 15Y56 + BTR-70 made in Buharest. rare shit. Especially when you consider that the frontal armor makes its way from the SVD to the lung. BTR-80 did not use, but according to experts, compared with 60 and 70 is already a step forward. A scorpion for specialists may not be bad (unless of course you carefully study the engine (Lyakhi damn)), but you need to have troops with an 8x8 formula.
    1. ilyaspb
      ilyaspb April 30 2015 22: 34
      -1
      BTR-60, BTR-70 is not an armored personnel carrier at all.

      They are not armored, or not transporters? :)
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 2 May 2015 10: 20
      0
      Quote: ssn18
      BTR-60, BTR-70 is not an armored personnel carrier at all.


      You shouldn’t be so. These vehicles passed Afghanistan and were also noted in Chechnya.
      Yes, they have their own congenital sores, not without it.

      60 at one time was a breakthrough machine, nothing like THIS WORLD, then no one was producing at all. Our engineers at that time were ahead of the rest.
      One application of 60 matches on Damansky, which is worth it.
      But 70 was already an order of magnitude better than 60.
      The main reason why the MTO 70s were still supplied with two carburetor engines (from GAZ-66) was that the production capacities of YaMZ and KAMAZ were then fully loaded and could not give diesel engines to the armored personnel carriers.
      The situation changed only in the early 80s and AMZ Design Bureau immediately reacted to this by designing the BTR-80 with the KAMAZ-740 engine in the forced version, which was subsequently launched into the series at the fastest pace.

  25. atamankko
    atamankko April 30 2015 23: 52
    +1
    Good news is always good to hear.
  26. Ronin62
    Ronin62 1 May 2015 00: 17
    0
    166 l / s? Not a little with a weight of 4,5 tons? I have a "B ighorn" 160 l / s with a weight of 2,5 tons. recourseAnd diesel too!
  27. Asadullah
    Asadullah 1 May 2015 00: 19
    +3
    Tolya Swan's dream came true, or he himself had lied to himself at one time, a haza for special forces:
  28. glasha3032
    glasha3032 1 May 2015 01: 01
    +1
    If there were critical articles and comparisons of "Lynx" with "Tiger" in the media and the result was a refusal to continue the mass purchase of "Lynx", then there is no information about the "Scorpion" (criticism, comparison, application). Gray horse ...
  29. kanast45
    kanast45 1 May 2015 07: 12
    0
    good machine