“Do not believe your eyes” or the Emperor Trajan’s Column as a reliable historical source

29
Military story Rome from 100 to 200 year n. er We know very badly, since detailed historical studies of this period have not been preserved. But there is a column of Trajan in Rome. And so many historians in the armor depicted on it are figures of soldiers in armor and used to refer to.

“Do not believe your eyes” or the Emperor Trajan’s Column as a reliable historical source
The column of Emperor Trajan in Rome. Modern look




Everything is known about her, so lovers of “new chronologies” in this case do not worry: 20 blocks of the famous Karar marble, it is 38 m high (together with the base), its diameter itself is 4 m. Inside it is hollow, and leads to the capital spiral staircase with 185 steps. Its weight is about 40 tons. It was built by the architect Apollodorus Damascus in 113, Mr. er and is dedicated to the victory of Emperor Trajan over the Dacians in 101-102. However, to say so means to say nothing! After all, its entire surface is covered with a ribbon with reliefs, which spirals around its trunk 23 times, and the total length is 190 m! The work of the sculptor and his workers had a huge! Suffice it to say that these reliefs depict about 2500 figures! But to consider them and study is very difficult, since it is very high. By the way, Trajan himself is depicted on it 59 times. Among the depicted figures are such allegorical figures as the goddess of Victory Nick, the god of the Danube in the form of a majestic old man, a night in the form of a woman with a veiled face, and many others.


God of the Danube is watching the crossing of the Roman troops



The figure of the Goddess of Victory and the trophies of the Roman army. Top left: Sarmatian helmet with lugs. On the right is scaled armor, but for some reason all the shields are oval, similar to the shields of the auxiliary Roman units not only in form, but also in their own design.


The first impression from those who look at these images is the strongest. It seems that all the figures on it are very realistic, and it is not without reason that the reliefs of the column are a valuable source for studying weapons, armor and equipment of both the Romans and their enemies - Dacians and Sarmatians. But the prospect of sculptors sacrificed deliberately to achieve greater information. Such an approach is constantly encountered in the works of ancient masters, but it is not this that is important for the historian, but how carefully and reliably they show the details of clothing and weapons. By the way, the walls and details of the landscape, again in the ancient tradition are shown out of scale. The clarity and dimensions of all the figures are the same, but to show perspective, they are located one above the other.


Inside the column is empty, and there is a spiral staircase upstairs. Therefore, in the walls of the column there are small light windows of a rectangular shape.
Note that the horses under the riders are disproportionately small, and they were indeed less modern, but not as much as the sculptor depicted.


French historian Michel Fiugeri called the bas-reliefs of Trajan’s column a “documentary film”. But if you study them carefully, and most importantly, also compare them with other images and artifacts, then perhaps we will end up with more questions than it gives us the answers. Yes, this is the source, but the source is very peculiar, and everything we see on it is simply impossible to take on trust! The famous English historian Peter Connolly noted that from it one can really learn many valuable details of what the Roman army of the times of this campaign was. But ... you can learn from it and something completely different!


This relief is well shown the construction of the Roman soldiers in battle. Ahead legionnaires attacking phalanxes, followed by archers with bows in their hands, and on the flanks - German slingers in tunics


For example, on the bas-reliefs one can see that Roman legionnaires are wearing lorica segmentata armor, and their auxiliary troops (auxiarii), and horsemen, and infantry - in lorica hamata chain mail. But why are some auxirian mails so short? Why does not even the groin of the notched hem cover them? One can involuntarily recall a phrase from the cult Soviet film “Alexander Nevsky”: “Eh, short kolchuzhka!”, And it also raises certain doubts in the veracity of the image depicted, especially near the long-haired chainmail of the Eastern archers, depicted here nearby. Judging by the oval shields, infantrymen in such short mail are auxiliaries, although the small length of this armor is also doubtful. That is, it is either the negligence of the sculptors, or they did so consciously, for example, to “heroize” the image of a Roman soldier. However, the horsemen have the same short chain mail. What if this was done - for greater convenience in wearing it horsemen? But if this is so, then why cannot one assume that the infantrymen in these short chain mail ... are dismounted or horsemen who have lost horses ?! But this is such a shaky ground of speculation that it is simply impossible to stand on it. By the way, it also shows that the essence of many subjects that are right in front of your eyes can be interpreted differently! By the way, on the relief of Mantua in the valley of the river. By the beginning of the first century. AD the armors (and scaly shells) of riders are mid-thigh length, that is, equestrian armor of normal length still existed in the Roman army. They have pelerines instead of sleeves, and they are somewhat more complicated than the “Trajan” ones, as also pointed out by Peter Connolly. Interestingly, both the chain mail and the scales of the scales of the Roman soldiers of the same cut, although the technology of their manufacture, of course, differed!


Oval shields in the Roman army of that time were usually among the horsemen and soldiers of the auxiliary legions


But the most interesting thing is that the bas-reliefs of Traian’s column in scaly armor also depict Syrian archers - the mercenaries of Rome and the cavalry of the Sarmatians, who in this war were allies of the Dacians. Among the sources confirming the fact of the wide distribution of scaly armor in the ancient world, the reliefs from the column of Traian could be of particular importance, because the column was installed “hot on the heels”. But the study of the relief, which shows the Sarmatian horsemen and their horses, clearly shows that this image is a fiction.

The fact is that all of them are depicted in scaly “clothes”, representing ... tight-fitting leotards! Therefore, on the reliefs from the column of Trajan, the Sarmatians are more like ... "amphibian man" from the movie of the same name, made in the USSR in 1962 year, which really could not be. There was no such armor at that time! Did not have! According to the British historian Russell Robinson, the author of the relief with “scaly Sarmatians” either used their descriptions, where it was said that they were protected from scattered armor from head to toe, and he reproduced them like that, or thought up their own to taste. Although it could be the way it happens in Russia, when everything is explained to the performer “on the fingers”. Those who could be asked about this were absent nearby, so the poor sculptor gave vent to his imagination! And as the veterans of the war with the Dacians most likely laughed at his "scaly Sarmatians", we can only guess today!

And here are some very unique images: on the left are the Roman horsemen in extremely short mail, and on the right are the Sarmatians running from them. Moreover, the warriors and their horses are covered with “scaly armor” from head to toe. That is, it is a clear fantasy of sculptors.

Here, on the column, there is another relief, in which we see the Sarmatian and Dacian trophies of the Roman army. Among them are the famous dragonarium, and Dacian-Sarmatian spangenhelm helmets (spangenhelm) with shoulder pads, which later became the standard head protection in the Roman army, and ... a scaly shell with a gear hem of normal length. One can only wonder why they are depicted correctly in one place, but not in another!


In the center of this composition is a warrior in a very short chain mail and with a disproportionately small shield. Well, why such shields - we seem to have figured out. But who is he? Warrior auxiliary parts of the Roman army or the horseman who lost his horse?


The shields of all the Roman soldiers from the column of Trajan are very small, although, judging by the findings in Dura Europos, should be much more. Marching Legionnaires are depicted with shields that they carry on the left shoulder strap. Because it would be hardly possible to hold a shield for a long time in your hand and carry it. But the shields are depicted open, although from Caesar's notes we know that they were worn in leather cases. Such covers were found, so that their use does not cause doubts. They also had a hole for umbon, but on the column - perhaps to show ornaments on the shields - they are everywhere depicted uncovered. And it would be fine only in battle, but also in a campaign, and this is an obvious fiction or flaw in the sculptor - the author of the column.

None of the legionnaires on the column has a pugio dagger. Apparently, by the end of the 1st century AD He has already gone out of fashion with foreign players. They do not even have such a specific piece of equipment, like a kingulum - a set of belts with metal badges sewn on them, on a waist belt in front. Rather, almost not, since it sometimes occurs with legionnaires in the segment lorik. But even they have it very much too short - only four rows of plaques. That is, he has either gone out of fashion, or this process was at the stage of completion!


Roman dagger pugio


Many legionnaires on the column of beard. And again, it is not clear - who is it? Former barbarians who fell into the Legion, or it was already such a fashion. That is, the beard was no longer associated with barbarism, it was no wonder that even the emperors had beards later. However, the emperor Trajan himself is shown on a column without beardless.


Capture Decibalus - the leader of the Dacians. Again, pay attention to the length of the mail armor of the fighting dismounted horsemen (or are they soldiers of auxiliary units?) Who do not cover their groin or buttocks


Thus, the reliefs on the column of Trajan should be perceived primarily as an interesting historical monument, but as a source - with considerable doubt about many details, since they sin not only against our present historical knowledge, but also against elementary common sense!

Connolly, P. Greece and Rome in the wars. Encyclopedia of Military History / P. Connolly; per. from English S. Lopukhova, A. Khromova. - M .: Eksmo-Press, 2000.
Robinson, R. Armor of the Peoples of the East. The history of defensive weapons / R. Robinson; per. from English S. Fedorova. - M.: Tsentrpoligraf, 2006.
Shpakovsky, V. O. Horsemen with bas-reliefs / V. O. Shpakovsky // History Illustrated. - 2013. - No. 1.
Feugere, M. Weapons of the Romans / M. Feugere; translated from French by David G. Smith. - UK: Tempus Publishing Ltd, 2002.
Nicolle, D. Rome's Enemies (5): The Desert Frontier / D. Nicolle. - L .: Osprey (Men-at-Arms No. 243), 1991.
Robinson, HR The armor of Imperial Rome / HR Robinson. - L .: Arms and Armor Press, 1975.
29 comments
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  1. +13
    2 May 2015 07: 00
    Such a valuable, unique historical example of the late Roman period must be kept in a closed pavilion. Let us recall what happened to the world famous sculpture by Michelangelo "David", which was under the open sky for a long time and suffered greatly from the effects of precipitation and weathering. In the end, the sculpture was forced to move inside the Florentine Academy of Fine Arts. But this happened back in 1873. In our time, precipitation is a real acid that destroys marble. It's a shame if the thread on Troyan's column dies. After all, this is a historical heritage not only of Italy, but of the entire cultural world.
    1. +1
      5 May 2015 22: 21
      Such a most valuable, unique historical example of the late Roman period must be kept in a closed pavilion.


      ... and under reliable protection from, for example, ISIS fanatics.
  2. +6
    2 May 2015 07: 25
    reliable laughing historical source

    Tales loved to write_read at all times / as big fairy tale like harry potter





    (historical studies of this period have not survived ) wink
  3. +2
    2 May 2015 08: 58
    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    Thus, the reliefs on the column of Trajan should be perceived primarily as an interesting historical monument, but as a source - with considerable doubt about many details, since they sin not only against our present historical knowledge, but also against elementary common sense!

    An interesting conclusion, as they say, do not believe your eyes ... maybe something is wrong with historical knowledge?
    What will we adjust to what - archaeological finds to history or the inventions of "storytellers" to it?
    It is precisely because historical monuments are customized to fictitious history that today the Taliban destroy monuments and museums (Tunisia, Libya, Egypt ... ISIS ..) that do not fit into their idea of ​​history.

    The second priority is chronological
    “It is known that a person who has forgotten his history, the history of his Fatherland, is like a tree that has lost its roots. And what will happen if a whole nation forgets its history or believes in some historical myth imposed on it taking into account the interests of external hostile forces? George Orwell when He wrote: "He who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past. "Rewriting the history of a people inevitably leads to a change in its future. That is why the arrival of new power is always accompanied by a rewriting of history, but at the same time the rulers themselves do not understand how they are used in the dark. This is very clearly manifested today in the former Union republics that broke away from the USSR. Therefore, one must always remember that history never teaches anything, it only punishes for ignorance of its lessons. "
    1. +1
      2 May 2015 19: 40
      Show me a find in the form of a scaly leotard?
      1. 0
        3 May 2015 10: 36
        How long does it take for such an openwork product to rust without leaving? 3-4 years maximum. At one time I was sure that before the beginning of a new era there were no swords, but in the Old Testament the word sword is present ... I think initially, the longest blade was with darts and spears, since wars were fought with six-fins, maces, axes and flails, which could stun the enemy and break through any armor, of which copper or bronze piercing cutting tips were little capable. But the improvement in the quality of the metal, the invention of iron, while not yet steel, gave preference to the piercing cutting tips of darts and spears, but the original "throwing weapon" remained in the form of a "sword". Previously, it was believed that chain mail was the most difficult armor, but then the question was: why from the "most effective" chain mail, the plate-ring type "Calendars" of 12 chest plates fastened with aventail rings gave way.
        Separately, I want to note that the commanders were not obliged to arm the soldiers and buy armor for him at that time, and a well-booked warrior is either rich in himself, or has it as a trophy from several battles.
        1. +2
          3 May 2015 12: 48
          The longest blade of more than a meter was at the Mycenaean rapier! All archaeologists found, no need to fantasize and refer to the Covenant - this source is rather doubtful. Chainmail was used where the bow was not used or it was weak. Where bows were strong plate armor was used.
        2. Elk
          Elk
          0
          4 May 2015 10: 13
          At one time I was sure that before the beginning of a new era there were no swords,

          You will be surprised, but finds the first finds of swords date back to the Neolithic.
          1. Elk
            Elk
            +2
            4 May 2015 14: 34
            Previously, it was believed that chain mail was the most difficult armor, but then the question was: why from the "most effective" chain mail, the plate-ring type "Calendars" of 12 breast plates fastened with aventail rings gave way.

            1. Chain mail is really quite time-consuming to make armor.
            2. Do not confuse complexity and efficiency. Moreover, the manufacture of chain mail itself is technologically not the most difficult process (it is more difficult to knock out a cuirass), how much time-consuming.
            3. Armor called "Calendars" is something! I laughed for a long time. There was a ring-plate armor - kolontar.

            And the number of plates in it varied within the widest limits.
            4. Barmitsa is an additional protective element of the head and shoulders. It was a chain hood with a mantle. Sometimes it could cover the lower part of the face.
            Separately, I want to note that the commanders were not obliged to arm soldiers and buy armor for him in those days,

            That depended on many factors. Sometimes the one who called, he equipped the called.
        3. 0
          5 May 2015 22: 30
          I think from the very beginning, the longest blade was with darts and spears, since wars fought with sixth, maces, axes and brushes,


          The Russian word "sword" in the Bible could mean kopesh - a chopping weapon of the Bronze Age with a long blade of complex shape. Although, the Assyrians had images of a sword with a thrusting long blade. And in the Bronze Age, even "swords" were made in Central Europe. This is based on archeology materials. Bronze lays in the ground for a very long time.

          Separately, I want to note that the commanders were not obliged to arm soldiers and buy armor for him in those days,


          The Legion was armed at the expense of the treasury. Standardly. His could be more than that.
  4. +14
    2 May 2015 09: 13
    As they say - that’s what people believe after that.
    Bros - you don't have to believe in the "new chronology". For - the truth - here it is. Trajan's Column is called.
    Bli-and-and-and-and-and-e, greedily cling to the storehouse of historical wisdom.
    And what do we see?
    Chainmail is not of the same style as stolen. What managed to steal, then wear. And the fact that the eggs are out is unimportant, but historically true.
    The shields are of the wrong brand. Should be, in theory, square. But here, okazza - they are oval. The auxiliary troops lined up in the "phalanx" (!) Of the Roman battle formation and forward, towards the Dacians. It turns out that not manipulative construction was the main one for the Roman legions, but phalanx. In the Carpathians. Well, historically true. Maybe.
    And there were mods - Mama Do not Cry. Daggers are already outdated, such was not fun to wear. Therefore they were thrown out. NAFIG. Since the Senate of Rome didn’t provide assistants with fashionable knives, we’ll be fighting without picks. The Syrians will help us. In a scaly leotard.
    On the sides we are very touched - the German DIVISORS. Die not get up. Show me a sling in the forest, in the taiga. Where will he swing his straps there? And how long does it swing.
    ...
    And from beginning to end everything was like that, like, "... we, historians, know how it was right, and the sculptor drove a blizzard and carried a gag, amid the friendly cackle of the veterans of the Dacian war standing next to them .."
    From which historians have no materials.
    ...
    "... with a considerable degree of doubt about many details, since they sin not only against our current historical knowledge, but also against elementary common sense!"
    ..
    The author urges us to believe EMU - not the column of Trajan, I understand correctly?
    1. +10
      2 May 2015 10: 38
      Quote: Igarr
      As they say - here and then trust people

      You are evil. I would even say - cruel! The process of revision of the wild tales that make up the official "history" has slowly begun. But the author of the article cannot say so directly - half a ton of historical "research" based on pictures from this column, for which a lot of "respected researchers" received "scientific" titles and quite real, significant grants - a lot of waste paper. And these "researchers" are cheeky, stupid talkers, liars, grabbing money and titles thanks to their arrogance and ignorance of those in power.
      Because all these creatures, whom it is scary to entrust the toilets to (there are not enough brains for this serious work, there is no logical thinking), they are now academicians! Doctors of Science! Heads of entire schools! "Scientific community". A gang of crooks who call themselves historians will instantly devour the poor fellow. So he makes curtsies, trying to tell the truth somehow, and this ... in relation to meanness ... In short, the author's situation is difficult. Straight sadness ... laughter and sin.
      Do you know what is the funniest thing? The most fun is that the forms of the shields, and the structure, etc. etc., all of this is based on exactly the same "reliable sources" as this column! If mankind wants to get history as a science, first it would be necessary to flush everything that these nonsense piles on down the toilet. Entirely. And then analyze the facts on a new basis, but in no case allowing absolutely none of the historians to do this work. Only physicists, chemists, engineers and mathematicians. From these storytellers we will never get absolutely nothing but fairy tales!
      1. +2
        2 May 2015 11: 11
        Michael is one hundred percent. Entirely -ZA-.
        The main thing is that no one will take away neither schools, nor ranks, nor salaries, nor grants, nor business trips - paid, it turns out, for nothing.
        But, it’s a shame that so many years of work - and all down the drain.
        "... Three leather cigarette cases, three corduroy tape recorders ... scientific papers ... also three"
        ...
        Good physics - I didn’t find the Higgs boson, let's look for the Biggs nucleon, or there, the Durrki cretion.
        But the historian is worse - written with a pen ...
        And at forty, let’s say, so reluctant to strain on a new one. To invent something there.
        ...
        I already know the term that describes this behavior. I learned from an article about Ukraine.
        Induced psychosis called.
        For we are all shifted.
        Who has a bigger fad - psychosis!
        Those with less are normal. Like us, for example.
        But - fad - at all.
      2. -1
        3 May 2015 14: 52
        I completely agree! These "historians" have distorted the entire real history of mankind. For various reasons - someone for the sake of the Pope and the Throne, someone just to cash in or become famous. There will be a great uproar, horror and universal howl of these "historians" when they still find a way of really reliable dating of antiquities, monuments, archaeological finds, etc. Otherwise, as it is now, they found a rusty spear in the forest and immediately: "Here, it was here that the 9th legion of the Romans died!" And then there was a dissertation, a doctoral degree and universal recognition! Or maybe this spear, or rather, what was left of it, was dropped by some farmer from the cart, and much later, when Rome was no longer there? And was there ancient Rome? Maybe scribblers wrote it in the 17th century? And all the buildings and monuments of this "Ancient" Rome should be attributed only 200-300 years ago, i.e. in the 14th century?
      3. 0
        3 May 2015 14: 52
        I completely agree! These "historians" have distorted the entire real history of mankind. For various reasons - someone for the sake of the Pope and the Throne, someone just to cash in or become famous. There will be a great uproar, horror and universal howl of these "historians" when they still find a way of really reliable dating of antiquities, monuments, archaeological finds, etc. Otherwise, as it is now, they found a rusty spear in the forest and immediately: "Here, it was here that the 9th legion of the Romans died!" And then there was a dissertation, a doctoral degree and universal recognition! Or maybe this spear, or rather, what was left of it, was dropped by some farmer from the cart, and much later, when Rome was no longer there? And was there ancient Rome? Maybe scribblers wrote it in the 17th century? And all the buildings and monuments of this "Ancient" Rome should be attributed only 200-300 years ago, i.e. in the 14th century?
        1. -2
          4 May 2015 16: 38
          ... Gaius Julius Caesar deducted from Yuri George Dolgoruky = St. George the Victorious = St. George .. Alexander the Great from Alexander Nevsky ... The she-wolf who fed the brothers of the founders of Rome (Dolgoruky and Ivan Kalitou ..) was melted in the 15th century ... No Roman Empire did not exist at all ...
    2. +1
      2 May 2015 19: 39
      The author does not need to believe, he is not a god! The article provides text, pictures and text to be read, and to look at the pictures, including logic and common sense. And that's it! In addition, the manipulative system was no longer used at that time. After the reforms, Guy Maria became the basis of the cohort, and, accordingly, the structure of the cohorts. And about scaly leotards on horses, do you think that was possible? After the findings in Dura Europos, after the famous graffiti, the statue of Ardashir ... So you misunderstood. Believe you do not call for anything.
    3. +2
      3 May 2015 10: 46
      Quote: Igarr
      Show me a sling in the forest, in the taiga.

      A sling is a hunting weapon of the forest, where initially you can sneak up to a beast at a short distance and beat off its horns with a pebble. The sling is also the weapon of the shepherds with whom the shepherd David killed Goliath. After all, the slings were small with a half-meter shoulder and long-range with a shoulder of 1,5 meters.
      1. +1
        3 May 2015 15: 05
        Yeah, the hunters had nothing but business to wander through the forest and knock off the horns of every animal. And they ate exclusively berries. If you, dear, are such a clever connoisseur of animal hunting, then imagine how you will spin your "weapon", but right in front of the victim. She will kind of stand calmly and watch with interest, when very close "at a short distance" is unclear what is whistling some kind of crap? Oh, don't tell my slippers! And with a "shoulder of 1,5 meters" I was dragged from the chair! Did you measure it yourself?
        1. +1
          5 May 2015 06: 44
          I do not want to offend anyone, but a sling is also different. There is a sling - a stick with a belt loop. no need to unwind. He waved - and that’s it ...
      2. 0
        3 May 2015 15: 05
        Yeah, the hunters had nothing but business to wander through the forest and knock off the horns of every animal. And they ate exclusively berries. If you, dear, are such a clever connoisseur of animal hunting, then imagine how you will spin your "weapon", but right in front of the victim. She will kind of stand calmly and watch with interest, when very close "at a short distance" is unclear what is whistling some kind of crap? Oh, don't tell my slippers! And with a "shoulder of 1,5 meters" I was dragged from the chair! Did you measure it yourself?
        1. 0
          3 May 2015 19: 38
          Grandfather Sasha, welcome.
          Laughing, right word, commentary. It is good that there are people who respond normally and adequately to all.
          Feeling that NH, Aleksadr, you read. Pleases, pleases.
          ...
          But Paul - it is not clear why? Get close to the beast in the forest close, in order to kill this beast with a sling ??? Wouldn’t it be easier to slit your throat with a knife? Or a stick under the sternum, into the stomach?
          And then in general, legs-hooves-paws to tie, but on a rope.
          Since it is walking so silently through the forest.
          For entertainment - to get close, and then twist the sling.
          ..
          what forests Pal Nikolaitch has been to, a mystery ..
          ...
          Found the same to me ... forest shepherds - David and Goliath.
          Wherever you look, deserts. From the Mediterranean to Tibet. From the Arabian Sea to the Caspian.
          ...
          And, kalibr, is also incomprehensible.
          Or I write abstruse. Or some do not understand what they are reading. They either read, but only understand themselves.
          Cohort became the main formation after the reforms of Mary.
          Are you sure?
          Or maybe Sulla reformed it - and Mary himself at the same time.
          Or Crassus, after the Parthians gave him a tinsel on the wort?
          I do not notice something, in my work, that we are starting to work easier and easier - safety equipment was thrown, as unnecessary, helmets and mittens. Instead of cranes, five or six began to harness and lift weights. They threw out the documentation, switched to oral art.
          The farther the more sophisticated and wiser everything becomes.
          The Romans alone - the further they developed, the more primitive they became.
          So what?
          Not believable. So - this could not be.
          Common sense.
          To which we are so called.
          1. Elk
            Elk
            0
            4 May 2015 09: 57
            Or Crassus, after the Parthians gave him a tinsel on the wort?

            Crassus did not survive the "hospitality" of the Parthians.
            And the phalanx is a pretty effective formation. By the way, the manipulative "chess" formation of legions is the development of the phalanx.
          2. +1
            5 May 2015 23: 09
            But Paul - it is not clear why? Get close to the beast in the forest close, in order to kill this beast with a sling ??? Wouldn’t it be easier to slit your throat with a knife? Or a stick under the sternum, into the stomach?


            You obviously cannot imagine a beast smaller than a boar. So, so as not to "eat berries" went with a sling to the forest for a bird and a trifle such as rabbits.

            They threw out the documentation, switched to oral art.

            The Incas abandoned writing. The oracle ordered, to end the epidemic, 200 years before the arrival of the Spaniards.

            Roman lathes included a crank mechanism, but in the Middle Ages this was forgotten and the workpiece was twisted "back and forth"

            On the prairies were huge cities, abandoned before the arrival of the whites.

            100 years ago, shoes served for decades - and looked. How old are your shoes?

            Progress is a multifaceted and non-linear thing. And decline is not uncommon in History.
    4. 0
      5 May 2015 22: 41
      The author urges us to believe EMU - not the column of Trajan, I understand correctly?


      As I understand it, the author calls not to chop off the shoulder, but to approach the sources critically and not draw conclusions without checking other sources.

      Even a photo can lie (voluntarily or involuntarily). And visual art is always somewhat arbitrary.
      There’s a monument to Suvorov in St. Petersburg (sorry, I don’t remember the author) - in romantic armor and with a sword-shield.
      And imagine the historian of the 30th century, who on this example reconstructs military equipment of the Paul era.
  5. +9
    2 May 2015 09: 30
    Look at our streets, why climb into faraway Rome. Our memory of the war is partisans next to the tankman, here with the banner of a machine gunner, often a girl. In different variations. Are we arguing about uniforms and weapons, about military formations, about the combination of the combat arms? No. This is a symbol. We all silently understand and are proud. For us, everything is obvious. Maybe so with the Trojan?
  6. +5
    2 May 2015 10: 16
    I think so . The sculptor, of course, did not participate in the war. I saw the military in peacetime. And on the street we see a lot of warriors in full combat? But in the guard and a smaller shield and chain mail is shorter and the shell is lighter. And about the enemies, I generally keep quiet where will he see them? Captive and already without weapons and armor! So there are no puzzles. What he saw and sculpted. Like the author of the article, he clearly did not serve in the army.
  7. +9
    2 May 2015 10: 33
    Historically, I would not believe Trajan at all. In terms of boasting and self-glorification, he surpassed even such a "modest" as Julius Caesar himself (which is what his "Notes on the Gali War" are worth). The column is the order of the emperor himself, the goal is to perpetuate the victorious campaign of Western "democracy" and bring "civilization" to the lands of the barbarians. Doesn't it look like anything?
    1. +6
      2 May 2015 20: 36
      Under Emperor Trajan, Rome reached its largest territorial size. This is the first. Secondly, imperial Rome was not at all a democracy. And thirdly, Rome was a civilization, and Dacia was not. Even now, the inhabitants of Romania are people who are fixed in development at the level of 16 years (no offense, weekend children).
      1. Elk
        Elk
        -2
        3 May 2015 10: 30
        Rome was a civilization, but Dacia was not

        Well yes. One of the most powerful armies of all times and peoples fought stubbornly against the "savages" for several years, and then adopted elements of weapons and tactics from them. Isn't that funny yourself? This is roughly the same as saying that the British army, after the Zulu wars, adopted the Assegai and "live wave" tactics.
      2. 0
        3 May 2015 15: 13
        You yourself are a child of the day off. They quoted what historians have written, and these storytellers are still those. And what really happened, no one knows. Rather, it does not want to know, it’s more convenient.
      3. 0
        3 May 2015 15: 13
        You yourself are a child of the day off. They quoted what historians have written, and these storytellers are still those. And what really happened, no one knows. Rather, it does not want to know, it’s more convenient.
    2. 0
      5 May 2015 23: 13
      In terms of boasting and self-praise, he surpassed even such a "modest" as Julius Caesar himself (which is what his "Notes on the Gali War" are worth).


      Guy Julius had every reason not to be modest. He did conquer Gaul. And his "Notes" is an important source about the Gauls. Almost the only written one.
  8. +4
    2 May 2015 11: 43
    Quote: Alex
    Historically, I would not believe Trajan at all. In terms of boasting and self-praise, he surpassed even such a "modest" as Julius Caesar himself (which is what his "Notes on the Gali War" are worth).

    On the other hand, Trajan did a lot for the revival and increase of the power of the Roman Empire.
    1. +3
      2 May 2015 14: 41
      Quote: anip
      On the other hand, Trajan did a lot for the revival and increase of the power of the Roman Empire.

      So I don’t dispute his merits with Rome, indeed, one of the few emperors of the period of decline, which looks rather vividly against the general background of political mediocrity and frank one-day trips. I’m here more about his talent as a storyteller - apparently, a direct ancestor of the famous Saxon baron.
      1. Elk
        Elk
        +1
        3 May 2015 10: 45
        I’m here more about his talent as a storyteller - apparently, a direct ancestor of the famous Saxon baron.

        You cannot praise yourself, no one will. Moreover, in the foreseeable future they will also pour slops. Or do you seriously believe that the "revealing" itch is an invention of our time? This is how I imagine the name of the "masterpieces": Piscatorium "Children of Via Nova", Falconium "Penal Cohorts of Caesar! The Way to Lutetius.", Solodgeus "One Day of Virgil" and "Laboriosi Archipelago". wink
  9. +2
    2 May 2015 11: 54
    Do not shoot the pianist, he plays as best he can .. This is about the sculptor of the column of Troyan .. And remember how the Pechenegs, Polovtsy, Tatar-Mongols steppe peoples are depicted, for example, in Russian chronicles? Illustrator did not see them, but painted as he represented ..
  10. +4
    2 May 2015 12: 58
    Brothers, Igarr here urged "not to believe the new chronology." So brothers, in the affairs of history, one should not believe or not believe. Rely on facts and your reason. Do not think that if some Uncle Scaliger wrote something, it is a FACT. Trust your eyes, think with your mind, and do not create idols for yourself, like this Igarr. To the author of the article - thanks for the example of using the head to think, and not just hawala. There are a lot of nonsense and outright lies in the official history. And now, right before our eyes, the FACT of the victory of dill near Debaltseve is beginning to form.
    1. +1
      3 May 2015 19: 42
      Lesh, learn to read, for starters, okay?
      It is not I who called, this is the author.
      It’s not my fault, he himself came.
      ...
      You don’t understand too, or how?
  11. +1
    2 May 2015 20: 58
    I read everything with interest. A thought arose, and not the time to move on to the issues of modernity, albeit from the angle of ancient times.
  12. 0
    3 May 2015 00: 07
    Quote: Boris55
    Therefore, one must always remember that history never teaches anything, it only punishes for ignorance of its lessons. "

    !!
  13. +3
    3 May 2015 12: 29
    Incidentally, the column is a work of art praising the victories of Rome, and not a study guide for future generations. Who, say, will study the clothes of biblical characters from paintings by Renaissance artists? They are dressed there according to modern fashion artists. In many cases. And look at the monuments to our soldiers on the Mamayev Kurgan. So did our soldiers dress like that? Everyone understands that these are heroic images. But there are also monuments where the form is conveyed accurately. And we must judge the weapons also from monuments? That is, the figure in Treptof Park is armed with a sword: ours liberated Berlin, armed with swords? How do we know what the masters who decorated the Trajan’s column wanted to convey or emphasize? We judge from our bell tower. Their horses are small. They have never seen horses either? Then why are they small? Maybe the artist didn’t want to attach great importance to the horses? The chain mails are the same: the protection was not important, they say, they defeated these Dacians, although they were better protected. Remember how in the Bible: Goliath was all in armor and with strong weapons, and David was naked and only with a sling. Maybe the same ideas are expressed on the column? smile
    1. +1
      3 May 2015 12: 59
      Yes, may be. You are right, but "maybe" reduces its value as a historical source. By the way, in the "Bible of Matsievsky" of the middle of the 13th century it is drawn that at first, as in the text of the Bible, David was dressed in armor, but then he took it off.
      1. +1
        3 May 2015 20: 10
        I don’t think this can detract from the historical significance of this artifact. It gives us, at least, an idea of ​​the artistic tastes of that time, the degree of skill of the sculptors, and you never know what else. Are all the lines of "The Lay of Igor's Campaign" historically accurate? They study, compare, but still do not know for sure. So, "The Word" has historically little value ?! winked
      2. 0
        5 May 2015 23: 22
        kalibr RU May 3, 2015 12:59 ↑
        Yes, may be. You are right, but "maybe" reduces its value as a historical source.


        All science is built on "maybe", "possibly", "with a high probability" ... etc.

        All "2 x 2 = 4" is not a science, but an LETTER! TE simplified version for children.
  14. +1
    3 May 2015 20: 48
    Remarkably, only when writing an article, the author did not take into account what always affects the production - the availability of materials, technology and production time and just the haste and negligence of the creators