Dragunov sniper rifle lost the war


The Defense Ministry plans to decommission the legendary Dragunov sniper rifle - the SVD. The military came to the conclusion that in modern conditions army snipers need rifles of caliber 8,61 mm. A bullet of this caliber - 0.338 Lapua Magnum - flies much further and more accurately than the standard 7,62 mm SVD.


Chief of the General Staff Nikolai Makarov said that until Russian gunsmiths make a rifle of the right caliber, weapon for snipers will be purchased overseas.

Now chambered for 0.338 Lapua Magnum rifles produce about 10 weapons companies from England, Finland, USA and Germany. Some of them, such as the English AWM-F and the Finnish TRG22, are already using units of the FSB of Russia, which increases the chances of these complexes to get into the Russian army.

Western rifles differ quite strongly from the SVD. Aim shooting range in AWM-F 1500 m, in SVD all 800. The military argue that on the battlefield such a difference can cost a sniper life, so she has no future.

“The Dragunov sniper rifle is an excellent weapon: it is light, comfortable, rapid-firing and reliable. But in the present conditions, it does not meet the tasks set, they told Izvestia in the Ministry of Defense.

A new rifle will not necessarily be foreign. At Izhmash, which has been producing SVD for almost 10 years, Izvestia was informed that it had developed several rifles for the 50 caliber. And even showed them to the military.

- We have several models. It’s hard to say that the military is not comfortable there, the rifles are good, the Izhmash representative suggested.

The son of the SVD developer Evgeny Dragunov, Alexey Dragunov, is working on Izhmash on the new weapon. He told Izvestia that it would take about a year to create a fundamentally new rifle.

“It’s just impossible to take and make a 8,61 caliber SVD; there you need to seriously change the dimensions of the components. In this case, you can leave the design of the SVD, but you can make a fundamentally new one. Everything depends on tasks, - the son of the legendary designer noted.

Dragunov believes that now the main choice will go not for the firing range and caliber, but for the rate of fire and the method of reloading.

“American snipers in Afghanistan very quickly found out that self-loading rifles are much more practical than those that need to be loaded manually,” said Dragunov.

Self-loading is one of the main advantages of the SVD, which allows it to remain popular with the military when firing at close distances. The shop of the Russian rifle holds 10 cartridges, while the Western models have no more than 5. Most long-range rifles are generally "disposable."

Considering that army rifles are needed for army snipers who are about to be introduced into each land brigade, self-loading can become a key characteristic when choosing a weapon. In this case, the design of the SVD, adapted to the caliber 8,61, may be competitive.
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  1. qwz_qwz
    qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 13: 45 New
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    Of course, it is necessary to change the SVD, although it is reliable and practical, because time does not stand still, and science is moving forward, if it strikes 1500 meters already among adversaries, then ours should not yield, it’s not an option to buy their own rifles, this will be a contribution to the military industrial complex, to new developments, but not ours ... As for self-loading, it will be hard to invest in 1500 m of acceptable accuracy, but we’ll be optimistic ... It wouldn’t hurt if the optics were normal, otherwise 4x would be too small, variable would be up to 24x ...
    1. BOSS
      BOSS 21 September 2011 14: 00 New
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      SVD! Good weapon!
    2. Vadivak 21 September 2011 14: 11 New
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      SVD is an era, besides Dragunov speaks about its advantages that foreign rifles do not have, the main disadvantage of shooting at a range of up to 800 m? Lies 1 km easy also pay attention to the phrase- We have several models. It’s hard to say what the military doesn’t like there, the rifles are good, the representative of Izhmash suggested. That would be to find out from these "military" that they are not satisfied and put instead of targets
      1. Banshee 21 September 2011 14: 16 New
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        In the course of the lack of opportunities to saw off and carry.
      2. ZHORA
        ZHORA 21 September 2011 14: 50 New
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        1km is easy)))))) Well, despite the fact that according to the instructions it is considered normal STP 6 cm per 100m, it is guaranteed that you can hit from 1000m only a target with a minimum size of 1,2x1,2m
        1. Vadivak 21 September 2011 18: 26 New
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          Zhora do not be a pessimist. Instruction for our snipers is not a hindrance
          1. Vadivak 21 September 2011 19: 36 New
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            http://www.zakon-grif.ru/swat/prefire/view/78-10.htm о подготовке снайпера и про 1 км
            1. ZHORA
              ZHORA 21 September 2011 21: 06 New
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              This is not even funny especially the table "Dissipation characteristics for SVD" per 100 meters <0,5 MOA?!?))))))))))))))))))))))) So what is "Promtekhnologii" they buy new machines with their ORSIS, they use bolt gate schemes and are very proud if the semiautomatic device shows such results))). The reality is that SVD provides accuracy of only 2,75 MOA.

              "The practice of using the SVD showed that its fire capabilities basically meet the requirements of the Russian military for an army sniper rifle. But it should be borne in mind that a sniper armed with an SVD must be assigned tasks corresponding to its accuracy of battle. According to the instruction on the small arms case, the average diameter the dispersion of bullets from the SVD is 100 m - 8 cm, 200 m - 16 cm, 300 m - 24 cm and then up to 600 m it grows according to the linear law. Accordingly, the SVD can hit with the first shot with a high probability of hitting spruce of the “head figure” type at ranges up to 300 meters (the dispersion diameter at this distance is 24 cm, not exceeding the size of the target). The targets of the “chest figure” type (50x50 cm) are struck with the same reliability by the first shot at ranges up to 600 m ( the dispersion diameter does not exceed 8 x 6 = 48 cm).
              However, the SVD does not provide a solution to the tasks of defeating important small-sized targets at ranges up to 800 m. "
    3. puffnutiy
      puffnutiy 21 September 2011 15: 07 New
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      I think the journalist does not quite understand the role of SVD. In the US Army, in each compartment there is a shooter with a rifle with a telescopic sight, the so-called "sharp shooter." This is simply the best shooter in the unit. He has a regular automatic rifle with optics. Beats no further than 1 km. Here you need to understand the SVD is a sniper weapon or a branch weapon? If the compartments, then a range of 800 m is quite sufficient. It’s hard to expect more from a non-sniper.
    4. Mista_dj 21 September 2011 19: 18 New
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      Made laugh.
      Use the scope with variable magnification, even up to x24 - arrows can not afford that the elite is EXTRA class!
      Where so much to recruit in the army?
      These are not even years - decades of training.
      Is it random that PS-1 is 4x !?
      Can you imagine the size of the “mirror”?
      With the same success, you can light a false fan next to you, or listen to music loudly.
    5. oper66
      oper66 21 September 2011 23: 11 New
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      in Afghanistan, the spirits stitched our duralumin armor from 19 guns into the “Boers” in Chechnya seized a 19th-century Mauser from Czechs with instructions on the barrel for unit cartridges but knocked them through the bark 5 and it’s possible to buy Makarevich on zapode, it’s possible to saw it off, it’s SCS that SVD and our AKM are the best, like DShK, I’ve been battling DShK No. d-505 in the army like that, heavy but better
    6. oper66
      oper66 21 September 2011 23: 16 New
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      in Afghanistan, the spirits stitched our duralumin armor from 19 guns into the “Boers” in Chechnya seized a 19th-century Mauser from Czechs with instructions on the barrel for unit cartridges but knocked them through the bark 5 and it’s possible to buy Makarevich on zapode, it’s possible to saw it off, it’s SCS that SVD and our AKM are the best, like DShK, I’ve been battling DShK No. d-505 in the army like that, heavy but better
    7. bdv
      bdv 22 September 2011 10: 37 New
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      What percentage of conscripts will be able to shoot a little bit?
      Most of them, God forbid, get from the machine 100 meters into the chest figure, and you are 1500-1500!
    8. bdv
      bdv 22 September 2011 10: 39 New
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      What percentage of conscripts will be able to shoot a little bit?
      Most of them, God forbid, get from the machine 100 meters into the chest figure, and you are 1500-1500!
      Quote: JORA
      http://www.zakon-grif.ru/swat/prefire/view/78-10.htm
    9. bdv
      bdv 22 September 2011 10: 40 New
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      What percentage of conscripts will be able to shoot a little bit?
      Most of them, God forbid, get from the machine 100 meters into the chest figure, and you are 1500-1500!
      Quote: JORA
      http://www.zakon-grif.ru/swat/prefire/view/78-10.htm
  2. Banshee 21 September 2011 14: 15 New
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    Well, the roof was demolished, do not feed bread, but give me something to buy abroad ...

    This is probably a virus like this ... Serdyuk picked up somewhere, everything has now been re-posted why.
    And with Makarova, what to take ... amoeba - she is in Ameba in Tanzania.
    1. qwz_qwz
      qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 17: 00 New
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      In power - the enemies of the people
    2. Mi
      Mi 21 September 2011 20: 35 New
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      It is not for nothing that Makarov’s troops call Nikolai the Pleasant
  3. zczczc
    zczczc 21 September 2011 14: 32 New
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    If the son breathes new life into the brainchild of his father, it will not be just a new rifle, it will be exactly what we all want - the preservation of our traditions in the army.

    Good luck!
  4. makrus
    makrus 21 September 2011 15: 23 New
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    It is unclear, it seems that in all kinds of interviews with “specialists” a figure from 400m always appeared. up to 1000m. sniper working distance. It also indicates the distance of 1500m .. Wash shots at such a distance is an extremely rare occurrence in the army. On the other hand, there is a “cord” with optics, which showed itself very well as an anti-sniper weapon. It seems to me that no matter what rifle would be taken into service in the future, it will not be so massive. Yes, and the SVD is not a "pure sight." This is a means of amplification for motorized rifles, it was operated under the same conditions as the Kalashnikov assault rifle, and it should always be fired and as often as possible. From here she has a store. In general, this rifle has its own “beggar” and I don’t think that some kind of western model is capable of moving it from there.
    1. ZHORA
      ZHORA 21 September 2011 17: 47 New
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      This is the backwardness of the Russian army, in the West they have long been working on goals for a mile or more. For example, .408 Chey Tac sniper ammunition (10,3x77 mm) allows you to confidently work with 1MOA accuracy at distances of up to 2200 meters, and a maximum range of 3500 meters.
      1. Pilat2009 19 June 2019 16: 39 New
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        Quote: JORA
        This is the backwardness of the Russian army, in the West they have long been working on goals for a mile or more.

        Does a branch sniper or special work? Specialists are what we have
    2. zczczc
      zczczc 22 September 2011 03: 07 New
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      makrus, I remembered for some reason a shot from Mikhalkov’s anti-Stalin pamphlet “The Citadel”, where a sniper takes a machine gunner in the citadel when he reached out to remove a spider from the window ...

      How many meters were there? I think 800 exactly.
  5. Motherland
    Motherland 21 September 2011 15: 36 New
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    Well, SVD is already the past, but we also have other sniper rifles, and the fact that they will be bought abroad is another betrayal.
  6. Owl
    Owl 21 September 2011 15: 48 New
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    Unfortunately, it is already difficult to believe in adopting a new self-loading sniper rifle. The Americans are preparing to adopt a new self-loading rifle, they are moving forward, detaching from us, widening the gap in all types of weapons and equipment. It's a shame.
  7. Motherland
    Motherland 21 September 2011 15: 53 New
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    Well, if we hadn’t tried to ignore our gunsmiths, we would have been 100 years ahead, and with a sniper rifle I was really upset because "only another sniper can eliminate a sniper," so if they don’t come up with anything normal then turn into a shooting gallery
    1. PSih2097 21 September 2011 16: 27 New
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      only another sniper can eliminate a sniper

      yes, it’s easier, faster, safer and more efficient to give the coordinates of the nearest self-propelled guns or the calculation of the “sleigh” or “tray” - if they miss 10 meters, then it does not matter.
    2. wasjasibirjac 7 January 2012 03: 05 New
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      the best anti-sniper rifle mounted on a tank tower - army wisdom
  8. zombies
    zombies 21 September 2011 16: 11 New
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    Another stupidity from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, although you are already getting used to it ...
  9. Cochetkov.serzh
    Cochetkov.serzh 21 September 2011 16: 22 New
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    if you change it, change it to something of your own, and not feed the west. Not really, Izhmash will not be able to make a new rifle, it can and will !!!
    1. qwz_qwz
      qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 22: 45 New
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      They will be able to do it, they will definitely do it, but for this they need to be taken by the throat with a hedgehog mitten, as in the good old days, but also not to forget to spoil the gingerbread and then ideas how raindrops with the monsoon will sprinkle with great speed ...
    2. qwz_qwz
      qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 22: 54 New
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      They will be able to do it, they will definitely do it, but for this they need to be taken by the throat with a hedgehog mitten, as in the good old days, but also not to forget to spoil the gingerbread and then ideas how raindrops with the monsoon will sprinkle with great speed ...
  10. Arlekin
    Arlekin 21 September 2011 16: 33 New
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    These figures would not have touched the creation of Dragunov .... It is necessary to modernize the barrel and aiming systems. Modify ammunition archival. But changing the principle of weapons for combined-arms snipers makes no sense. SVD is universal for army use. This "specialists" work at another "level" where the range and / or noiselessness of the shot is needed. And the 1st shot is enough for them.
    Those. this initiative is another sabotage agent of influence against our Army. And for that shooting relies. But he will see another medal fastened on the belly ......
  11. hundert
    hundert 21 September 2011 17: 00 New
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    damn, I thought I got to the site of thinking, but here crying
    where did infa go about discontinuing SVD? or so for a change, someone decided to throw a blade of organics.
    http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2011/09/12_a_3763965.shtml - читайте, более менее адекватное обозрение мнения военных на проблему.
    1. PSih2097 21 September 2011 17: 09 New
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      The Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant also produces a number of other rifles - the SV-98 and SV-99, a folding version of the SVD, and the Tula Instrument Design Bureau - the large-caliber (12,7 mm) OSV-96 rifle. “They are, but another thing is that there is a question for their quality,” says Frolov.

      the question is also the price ...
      1. hundert
        hundert 21 September 2011 17: 25 New
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        Yes, not only in price.
        MO is ready to buy domestic products, provided that the price, and most importantly the quality of these weapons, would correspond to foreign counterparts.
        and we have not very high-quality weapons trying to sell at insane prices.
        1. KASKAD
          KASKAD 21 September 2011 20: 19 New
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          Yes, the quality is just shit, but I advise all employees of Izhmash to shoot such crap as they are, who in the world no longer does a bunch of 10cm in SVD !! In the West, a decent rifle is considered to be a rifle with accuracy of 100 m no more than 1 MOA is 2,67 cm and our optics is a museum exhibit. My friend, a sniper, went to Chechnya, he took 16-fold Leopold with a mil-dot net at his own expense.
          1. PSih2097 21 September 2011 20: 57 New
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            But optics is a separate sore point. And we lagged behind in him forever ...
            1. hundert
              hundert 21 September 2011 21: 30 New
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              Are you Wang’s granddaughter? at least google was asked on this issue.
            2. qwz_qwz
              qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 23: 03 New
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              sadly, we in the optics industry have never been close to the leaders, but it’s not worth arguing that we’ll be forever behind if something serious can come up seriously.
          2. qwz_qwz
            qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 22: 55 New
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            And they are overgrown with fat of capitalism over the years of homelessness, and unfortunately not only they, as a supervisory and punishing body will appear so soon the quality will rise
          3. qwz_qwz
            qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 23: 00 New
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            And they are overgrown with fat of capitalism over the years of homelessness, and unfortunately not only they, as a supervisory and punishing body will appear so soon the quality will rise
          4. qwz_qwz
            qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 23: 01 New
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            And they are overgrown with fat of capitalism over the years of homelessness, and unfortunately not only they, as a supervisory and punishing body will appear so soon the quality will rise
          5. qwz_qwz
            qwz_qwz 21 September 2011 23: 03 New
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            And they are overgrown with fat of capitalism over the years of homelessness, and unfortunately not only they, as a supervisory and punishing body will appear so soon the quality will rise
      2. zczczc
        zczczc 22 September 2011 03: 10 New
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        PSih2097, so the price depends on the mass production very, very.
  12. Motherland
    Motherland 21 September 2011 17: 18 New
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    Quote: PSih2097
    yes, it’s easier, faster, safer and more efficient to give the coordinates of the nearest self-propelled guns or the calculation of the “sleigh” or “tray” - if they miss 10 meters, then it does not matter.

    It is possible, but not always self-propelled guns, maybe you can do a local nuclear strike on it, so what is there to disturb the calculation of self-propelled guns? Or an air strike, but what if there is neither one nor the other? So if you do not have another sniper against the sniper, it is somehow stupid and illogical.
  13. panzersoldat
    panzersoldat 21 September 2011 17: 54 New
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    We should not forget that we have a sniper in every motorized rifle unit. They need a simple and reliable weapon, such as SVD orSVU. English rifles are needed only for special. subdivisions.
    1. Siberian
      Siberian 21 September 2011 18: 01 New
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      For the Tankman.
      There is no sniper in the motorized rifle department in the new state (it is already the second year). But in each department appeared the calculation of RMB.
      1. panzersoldat
        panzersoldat 22 September 2011 09: 57 New
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        I have not heard before. It’s just that we have a sniper in the army of Belarus in each unit, the calculation of RMB is only in the mobile unit, instead of the PKK.
    2. KASKAD
      KASKAD 21 September 2011 20: 22 New
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      To train and prepare snipers it should not be conscripts with a year of service.
    3. strelok-07
      strelok-07 21 September 2011 23: 15 New
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      Not in the squad, but in the platoon, but it does not change the essence of the matter.
  14. Mista_dj 21 September 2011 19: 16 New
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    SVD is certainly a good weapon, but it's time to change it.
    If we talk about field application:
    1. A battle is increasingly contactless, so 1500m of confident defeat is always better than 700-800.
    I would be much more comfortable chukh myself shooting from the "invisible far."
    City / Zelenka:
    2. Not very convenient SVD in the combat output. In case of sudden contact, you are the ballast in the group. They cover you all by themselves, but you cannot help.
    The same “screw cutter” is many times better in this sense.

    But "bayonet" SVD - out of competition.
    That club still.
    Demolishes Bosko at a time!
  15. UAZ Patriot 21 September 2011 20: 41 New
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    in fact, as I understand it, a cartridge is first created, and then various weapons for it. and in this embodiment, ammunition will have to buy zapadlyuk, with the corresponding conclusions ...
    1. hundert
      hundert 21 September 2011 21: 09 New
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      there are corresponding cartridges. even prototypes of rifles are. but this is a hindrance because of the price and the need for re-equipment of production. IMHO as well as unwillingness to venture with high-precision production.
      set up 9x19 and no one peeled off.
  16. Professor 21 September 2011 20: 52 New
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    1. I do not believe that SVD will be discontinued in the next 10-15 years.
    2. If they even stop production, then they will remain in the army for 100 years, so many of them were produced.
  17. PSih2097 21 September 2011 21: 23 New
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    Take at least the same AK-74 of the 80s and AK-74M of the 90s - two big differences. The same can be attributed to other samples of small arms, with some samples being made very well, while others are disgusting (apparently after signing the contract, they immediately try to reduce the cost of production). If there was a normal acceptance, then half of the problems would be solved. And any tactical dodger and sights, for that matter, you can buy separately.
  18. Uhalus 21 September 2011 22: 26 New
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    Well, even if you agree that SVD is completely out of date; even if the reserve of modernization has been exhausted (of which I am absolutely not sure) - but! - why the other, just such a caliber ?! Why, for that matter, not 12.7? Not 14.5? This is all the ammunition standards will have to change! Our country is so weak that it simply can not stand it! We’ll have to change technologies, mass replacements of parts in machines - this is a production stop and wild, absolutely wild costs! We have not worked out weapons for this caliber - how much time will pass until the production is stabilized and regular defects are eliminated! It’s easier not to endure this horror, but to buy it abroad ... But this: 1. is completely dependent on that very foreign country (those same “incredible friends” who were former “probable opponents”), 2. the lack of these weapons and especially ammunition "in case of what, "3. and wild theft of officials connected with this (including here also the feldmebel).
    By the way, as far as I know, there are more modern versions of SVD, there are new developments that are no worse than foreign ones: SVK, SVD, SVU, SVDK, Vintorez, SV-98, VSK-94, KSVK, OSV-96, VSSK, SVL , VS-8 - there is, in short, plenty to choose from, and there is something to refine. But you won’t get much money there ... "I feel it, but I can’t justify it" that in this matter they will go on the worst path ...
    The only question is the quality of production, which we now simply “lies” with.
    1. KASKAD
      KASKAD 22 September 2011 02: 35 New
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      You said everything correctly, those “new” ones are almost a bit worse than foreign ones, they are terrible both in terms of quality and in terms of materials used and in terms of wretchedness of the structure, for example, the survivability of the SV-98 barrel 1500 rounds, the survivability of the barrel before the manufacturer guarantees performance deterioration
      Steyr-Mannlicher SSG 08 15000 shots, that’s the difference why you need to buy our rifles every month if you can buy the same Steyr-Mannlicher SSG 08 and not take a steam bath and the price is not so much and differs from ours by the way.
      The only Russian-made rifle that really deserves attention is the Lobaev’s Tsar-cannon rifle, a man who has been engaged in sniping all his life, lived in the United States and knows their weapons not by hearsay, he eventually developed and began to produce his own .408 caliber rifle firing at a distance of 2-2,5 , 408km with amazing accuracy, and .1500 caliber ammunition pierces an armored personnel carrier from 1m, each rifle is hand-made, and parts are made of high-quality Chromo-Nickel-Moleben alloys on modern CNC machines, but MO does not want why buy these rifles? I don’t know, even athletes from Europe and the USA take them, it’s 2 months to adapt a ready-made rifle for the armed forces and that’s all, maybe the problem is that a small Lobaev LLC will not be able to deliver so many rifles so quickly? Well, you can help with investments, the whole thing is because the number of CNCs.
      1. puffnutiy
        puffnutiy 23 September 2011 11: 08 New
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        I already wrote here in the comments to some article. The Lobaev rifles were bought by the FSO and very willingly. Because Lobaev (according to unverified information) was not renewed the license - so that he would not compete with our military plants and now all the equipment has moved to the UAE. Now SVL is being produced there. So it goes...
  19. Yukon
    Yukon 21 September 2011 22: 33 New
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    Currently, there are no semi-automatic rifles in the world giving less than 0.5MOA
    1. KASKAD
      KASKAD 22 September 2011 02: 38 New
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      But what about the recently adopted M110 US Army?
  20. Superduck
    Superduck 21 September 2011 23: 28 New
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    By the way, what the military doesn’t like according to the sound criteria of the SVDK, it has a caliber of 9,3x64 and accuracy like nothing. But I think that special forces there need their rifles and you can buy them even from the Lord God, several hundred of them are needed in the country. But to replace all the SVD is a huge headstock.
    1. datur 24 September 2011 14: 43 New
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      Superduck,
      replace all SVD is a huge headstock .--- here's the answer to the question !!!!
  21. merkawa
    merkawa 21 September 2011 23: 28 New
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    In short, to summarize the article, the rifle is certainly out of date, until it is removed from the allowance of 10-15 years, during this time they will come up with something on the Izhmash. And specialists will be provided with imports as necessary.
  22. nnz226 22 September 2011 01: 23 New
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    and why is the caliber so strange? again bowing to the west? if 7,62 is small, do it under 9 mm! especially since the production of ammunition of this caliber is in the Russian Federation (pistol cartridges + for Vintorez) and the size of the cartridge (it is clear that it is not pistol) can already be developed for existing equipment in accordance with the statement of work for the rifle ...
  23. Strashila 22 September 2011 14: 46 New
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    Before you say that this is bad ... let them answer in relation to what and at what price. In order to be offered something ... formulate in writing what you want to receive. The paradox is that they want ... byak originally, for one simple reason ... it was designed against Russian soldiers, i.e. individual defense, tactics of warfare, etc. .. Now make a projection on the soldier of the likely enemy ... correctly, everything else. Therefore, the weapon should be different, and not stupid copying.
  24. Fray
    Fray 26 September 2011 23: 07 New
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    SVD is still very useful to criminal groups,
    shoot bankers and officials ...
    1. bdv
      bdv 27 September 2011 00: 03 New
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      I do not agree. It is for such purposes that we need all kinds of super-fashionable, high-precision, sophisticated rifles about which they are trying to theorize here, in terms of mass application. So that at 1 km, at 1,5 and 2 km it was possible to charge in the adversary.

      SVD - for the army, i.e. for mass production and use, designed for a fighter, the best in a platoon firing a machine gun.
      With SVD, it will bring the unit more benefits than with a gun.
  25. kesa1111
    kesa1111 14 October 2011 01: 55 New
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    To solve different problems and need different screws. What and when to use should be chosen by the sniper (group is even better). To remove SVD from armament is sabotage, it is necessary to continue to bring it to mind.
  26. Vadim32
    Vadim32 22 January 2012 20: 37 New
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    But it’s interesting, our government wasn’t tired of using foreign weapons, even if they came up with something new, otherwise if we have something outdated, we should immediately use foreign