“We must get away from the ambiguous position of our defense industry”

In the coming years, 20 trillion rubles will be allocated to the development of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Another 3 trillion - on the development of the military-industrial complex. "AT stories present-day Russia has not had such expenses yet, ”said Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, speaking at the United Russia interregional conference held in Volgograd in early May. And he stressed: - This is not a militaristic budget - our expenses are all the same in 25 times less than in the USA. But we will also provide our defenses for this money. This will allow us to preserve our independence and to feel ourselves masters in our land. ”

But money alone is far from deciding everything - it’s important how they are spent. Can our defense industry "digest" such amounts? Do we need to buy foreign military equipment? Will Russia have enough scientific personnel to create new technologies? What dangers await an army modernization program? We talked about this with the supervisor - Director of the Central Research Institute named after Academician A.N. Krylov, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and outstanding scientist and shipbuilder Valentin Pashin.

- As indicated in the report of the prime minister, only for the renewal and development of the Navy huge allocations have been made - on the order of 5 trillion rubles. In total, 20 trillions (a threefold increase over the previous program) stand out for the implementation of the Armament program. And for the ten years 3 trillion will be spent on modernization of the military-industrial complex. How realistic do you think these numbers are? And aren't the terms too blurred?

- The indicated amount of appropriations for updating the Navy is impressive, although in reality it will naturally be less, taking into account the inevitable accumulated inflation. The need for increased funding is beyond doubt, for today's state fleet as a universal tool for effective foreign policy leaves much to be desired. Is the term blurred or not blurred? The ship is a very complex structure, saturated with almost all types of engineering products, radio electronics, weapons and others. Terms of creating large ships reach 10 and more than years, and terms of operation 50 years. Therefore, long-term planning of military shipbuilding (on 30 - 40 years) with the release of 10-year control periods is effective. The decision to develop such a long-term program has been made. This will make it possible to avoid short-term decisions on the creation of various types of ships. As a result, the type should be drastically reduced, which will allow the transition from the construction of the leading ships to the production of series - with lower costs and periods.

- How realistic is it to completely retool the military in ten years?

- It is impossible to completely retool the armed forces - no one can ever succeed. In service will always be a weapon of at least three generations: the old, the modern and the newest. A normal ratio is approximately as follows: 20, 60 and 20 percent. The country's top leadership has been tasked to bring the level of modern weapons to 30 percent by 2015 year and to 70-ti by 2020.

- It is planned to send 200 billion rubles annually to promising defense R & D (research and development). Is it a lot or a little? And what about the staff - are there still any specialists who are capable of raising the shipbuilding science?

- Money does not happen much. To solve one set of tasks, this is very much, for others it is very little. And the question of personnel is relevant. But it can not be placed in isolation from the real development. There will be no real large-scale development - full-fledged personnel will not appear. It has always been and will be. In addition, not all previous shots are gone. There is someone who has experience and knowledge.

- As you know, the average age of scientists in Russian research institutes is about 60 years. How is this going on at your institute? Has the influx of youth increased and in general - do young people work for you?

- In the Central Research Institute named after A. N. Krylov the average age of scientists is about 50 years with a steady downward trend. In recent years, the influx of young professionals has increased. This is promoted, it seems to us, by effective labor motivation, the “Young Fund” (a young specialist, in addition to salary, receives additional payments and incentives from the fund), full-time and extramural postgraduate studies with thesis defense at the Krylov Central Research Institute, and so on. Certainly, the character of the work also attracts: conceptual studies, computer development, experimental studies, field tests of ships and the most modern samples of marine technology ...

- Valentin Mikhailovich, I quote you: “The nineties turned for the Russian Navy in fact a new“ Tsushima ”, albeit without hostilities. With the only difference that after Tsushima 1905, it took a year or two to take radical measures to rebuild the Navy. " What did we lack most of all: financing, personnel, scientific research, or strong-willed decisions of the authorities?

- My personal opinion: most of all lacked a clear vision of the goal and strong-willed decisions of the upper level. And numerous changes in the management system of the shipbuilding industry, and the navy, created the conditions for making “momentary” not the most effective decisions. Even Seneca said: “If you do not know where to swim, not a single wind will be fair for you.” But in recent years there has been a positive gradient in the development of the shipbuilding industry and the replenishment of the fleet. And the biggest decisions are new funding for the Navy and the military-industrial complex, as well as decisions to develop a long-term program for military shipbuilding.

- What over the past 20 years really happened in the shipbuilding industry?

- What happened in the industry as a whole. With the only difference that the shipyards "kept afloat", including through export orders. These are ships, submarines, boats. Of particular note are foreign contracts in the field of research and development. Our institute, for example, has been performing 15-16 contracts per year in the last 30-40 years. These are tests, methods of calculation, rules, regulations, projects of rowing screws ... The opinion widely spread by some media about the loss of shipbuilding forever, especially civilian, is greatly exaggerated. In terms of the number of civilian ships under construction and the pace of production growth, shipbuilding is probably ahead of the related industries.

- What have we lost, and what really survived today from the achievements of, as you say, the “golden period of military shipbuilding” (1965-1985 of the year) when the ocean fleet was created that is not inferior in terms of the total American tonnage? And how much is it inferior to the American today?

- According to foreign experts, our fleet is about three times lower in tonnage than the US. We lost what we could not contain, and that’s about 2 million tons of total tonnage. The technical condition of the ships exacerbates this problem.

- What is the current state of the defense industry, and shipbuilding science in particular? How far is it behind the world?

- The defense industry has a lot of problems. Some of them are common, some are specific to the shipbuilding industry. Among them, I would attribute the structure of fixed assets, deformed in the direction of equipment with the age of 20 years or more, and, accordingly, outdated technologies. Recently, we have been talking a lot about the need to create construction sites for large-capacity marine equipment (dry docks), heavy-load cranes, large-sized rolling materials, a new machine park, and the like. It is really necessary. But to get the desired effect in the complexity and duration of construction is possible only if the technological processes will be modernized. First of all, you need to go to the principles of construction "in pure size" based on digital technologies. It is not enough to demonstrate the designs and equipment in the 3D format. Need end-to-end project-production system in a single digital code. Extremely important for the shipbuilding company is the rhythm and timeliness of funding, corresponding to the technological schedule of the building. It's no secret that we have big problems here. Contracts on state defense orders are concluded with a large shift to the right. Funding in general, as a rule, increases by the end of the construction period, which contradicts the technological process. This primarily affects the order of complexes of radio-electronic weapons and weapons (the cost reaches 70-80 percent of the cost of the ship). And their late delivery is a disruption in the deadlines for the delivery of ships. By the way, every five years of lengthening the terms, the rise in the cost of the ship is about one and a half times. The question of the value of the state defense order deflator also deserves consideration. In our opinion, it should be adjusted to reflect the growth of tariffs of the so-called natural monopolies.

- In your article “About the Mistral and Russian foreign-built ships,” you say that acquiring equipment abroad is normal and even necessary for the development of shipbuilding. Russia had this practice before. The question is what kind of equipment and what technologies need to be acquired abroad today in order for our fleet to become powerful and competitive?

- I have repeatedly had to say that the fact of acquiring military equipment, borrowing knowledge and technology does not have any tragic consequences. And what exactly to buy is a difficult question. In Soviet times, it was solved this way: we built the most complex, responsible and high-tech ships ourselves. Abroad ordered relatively simple: landing, auxiliary vessels of the Navy ... Perhaps it is worth going the same way now? The construction of a hundred ships declared in the LG-2020 (state armament program) may be unrealistic - due to the large number of types: corvettes, frigates, non-nuclear submarines are present in several versions. It would not have happened as in the previous decade - we will build only the leading ships. Could it be easier to order a series of some of them abroad? And to focus on those objects, the delivery of which from abroad is simply impossible. Given the large share of the cost of REV systems and weapons and their decisive influence on the duration of construction, it would be right to borrow some technologies abroad. However, our foreign colleagues are unlikely to help potential competitors. Well, why not recall the words of Alexander III addressed to his son: “Remember, Nicky, Russia has no allies, they are afraid of such a huge country. Our allies are the Russian army and the Russian fleet! ".

- The state defense order should obviously be considered as the main tool for the modernization of the military-industrial complex. What volumes should it have so that we can produce new competitive equipment?

- The main target program for the modernization of the military-industrial complex should be considered the federal target program Development of the Military-Industrial Complex. This is the technical re-equipment that is necessary to perform the LG. Roughly, the volume of such re-equipment should be 15-20 percent of HPV funds, which practically corresponds to the decisions taken: 20 trillion rubles and 3 trillion rubles.

- In which areas of the defense industry can we really have priority?

- Russia can have a priority in those branches of the military-industrial complex that have retained a key part of their scientific and production potential. But we must get away from the ambiguous position of our defense industry. On the one hand, the Ministry of Defense declares the completeness of all R & D, now it only needs serial supplies. On the other hand, in the sphere of military shipbuilding, there is a variety of types of new ships, i.e., development works. It seems that the process of creating sophisticated military equipment should not be like riding a roller coaster. Search and applied research should be conducted not periodically, but continuously. This will guarantee priority.

- According to the Prime Minister, it is planned to recreate the entire technological, industrial chain: from conducting research and development to the production of components and high-volume production. What problems are expected along the way?

- Speaking at the congress of machine builders, Vladimir Putin identified the actual re-industrialization of the country. And this is one of the main links in the modernization of Russia. Difficulties are inevitable. But there will be no problems if the will of the country's top leadership remains unchanged and decisive.